NBA Offseason Drama and League Parity

F in ruins Emergency dition. You know how we do. supposed to record tomorrow and now we recording today because Minnesota Timberwolves decided to trade for Laabllo Ball Yeah, you heard that right. Yes. I did that that was for effect The Minnesota Temper Wolves traded for L Mello ball. Why did they do that We're going to get into the Y and all of those things with myself and Howard Beck. And then we're going to talk about just the hubriss of NBA pre agency, the Austin Reeves deal, Where's Jayalen Brown going to go? all the other things that have permeated. throughroughout the league over the last week since we last recorded U Yeah. Really really fun episode We're trying to figure this out. I'm still just perplexed at Minnesota They're just decision making skills over the last five years Whds ain't going to go 's going to happen. I feel or all my partners on the shores of Lake Menitanka All right enough of the intro Cliff, Victoria P to day music Stop Ruins, Logan Murdoch here Howd mother fucking dck there Um we planed to pot on Friday morning, but u the Minnesota Timberwolves had other plans for us This episode is brought to you by Ferrero Soccer's interternational Tournament is here and Ferrero is going all in Enter for your shot at a range of prizes, just by buying your favorites like TikTack freshmments, cool, minty and simple. or Halo Top ice cream, loaded with crave worthy mix ins in every bite and half the calories of leading competitors. Go all in by any two Ferrero brands and you could win one million dollars official rules apply Learn more at go all inandwin. com Yes u The Minnesota Temperb was just traded for Lameello Ball and I will get to the trade package, but I can only describe it as something you do when you are drunk at two in the morning playing two K and just say fuck it. R. So let's with that being said, this are the terms of the deal. The Hornets will send LameMello Ball and Josh Green to Minnesota in exchange for Nz Read an unprotected first round pick in twenty thirty three, three first round pick swaps in twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine and twenty thirty and three second round picks in twenty nine, thirty two and thirty three Um now This has also been like a fire a part of a fire sale and reinvention that the Timberwolves have been doing. They just basically dumped Julius Randall Brooklyn for some scraps. And now they are reshaping their roster around Anthony Edwards and all world talent and Lameello Ball an all world roller coaster Um, throughout his career. I don't know I know how I feel about the deal, Howard. The deal looks crazy on its face and I think it's going to look even crazier when the season starts. There's so many Ways we can go here, but first I just think, what is your first thoughts on the deal? Is it about what I think or are you a little bit more optimistic for it My first thought is that This is the worst possible day for us not to have President of the Lameella Ball. San Club, Raja Bell on the show. Where are you Raoga? He's on the road to Atlanta right now. He will be road to Atlanta There will be no one here to defend Lameello's honor U If it's necessary, it may not be necessary. We'll see where this goes. I have no idea where this is going because we're just doing this on the fly. I've had very little time to process this in my own head. I mean, my first reaction was simply Obviously holy shit Um I think we all could see At least by the reports last night, there were there were like strong rumblings. and it was not just one media outlet it was it was several. But even in hearing that Lameello Ball was potentially Available That teams were pursuing him My first thought was simply, you know why now And it's one of the questions that we're going to have to get answered in the hours and days and weeks to come. Um becausecause The Charlotte Hor. I thought about it was from Charlotte's sideide first. They just had their best season in a very long time and that core group of Lameello with Con Kpple, a very close runner up for rookie of the Ye, Brandon Miller They've got a really nice core there. They've got a good thing going. Charles Lee got these guys playing in defense And they're finally kind of ready to breakth through. They created an identity. And this signals to me and the hornets will surely push back on these kinds of interpretations But the sort of signals to me that the Hornets didn't actually believe fully in what they had there and or had Salary cap apron type concerns as they try to pay all these guys, right Um You mentioned it. The Mo's an all world roller coaster Al has been And even as he smoothed out some of the rough edges last season, there's still those wild moments. the one legged fadeaways and the impossible three point shots and occasionally just tunnel vision But all that said Minnesota clearly sees a guy who's just incredibly talented and incredibly tall for a point guard besides. So you now have this this just huge back court All of Anthony Edwards' you know, physicality and athleticism, all of the Mel Ball's height and athleticism and playmaking ability. I mean, for all of The issues about him and his shot selection sometimes, he's also an incredibly gifted passer. So You have the makings here. of an absolute J explosive backct But it comes at the cost of One of their their lastt like they went from being over indexed on the front court to now over indexed on the back court because they also just locked up Iotaon move that they say N Read was like a cultural icon. Cultural icon. Dude, can you imagine like there there's like a vigil probably going on outside Target Center as we speak. Nas Reid was like Nas Reed was to that team what like I don't know, Josh Hart is to the Kicks or something. like like this this guy who just Anthony Edwards is the enine in Minnota. Jaylen Brotz is the engine in New York. When you think of the guys who feel like the heart and soul of a team sometimes Um yeah, that was Naz read. So I always thought it was a Nas or Julius Randall thing or a Nas or Cat thing before they traded Cat for Randall And so when they offloaded Randall, I was like, okay, cool, more kind of re, you know, shuffling the books and freeing up some money for I toume fine. You've got Nz read. you could just plug right in. Oops So hey you could plug them right into a trade Yeah. so that like there's a lot of pieces of this that I U I can kind of see the outline of the rationale in Minnesota and in Charlotte, but I'm still like trying to figure out exactly what the the full vision here is and how and how they're going to backfill. This episode of the Ringer NBA showhow is presented by Ferrero The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kibbler Chips delue cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrero Roche squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. buy any two for raro brands and you could win one million dollars. official rules apply. Learn more at go all inandwin. com I'll tell you what from a observer like just from a observer standpoint from three thousand miles away I can tell you why Charlotte did the deal. Charlotte saw what happened in Orlando to in the season and saw there was a ceiling on that team and then they all of a sudden they get a call from Minnesota saying, Hey, we're going to get you all these picks for L Mello who kind of There's been a hot and cold relationship with Lelo to even say a lightly even this season as they have been successful. And even like the success that he had in a playing game against Miami we talked about that right after, right? the highs and lows of that and I honestly don't think that that is sustainable for a team that is trying to ascend them the way that they are try the hornets are trying to ascend. And you know, there were rumblings in the beginning of the season about Lameello may be wanting out and Um, you know, just the back and forth and the clashing between those two entities and and and a new coaching staff that wants to make its imprint. I could definitely see the team just being like, let's just get this U let's get this problem off of our hands and not to mention like L Mello has a crazy contract. likeike you're locked in like three more years with him if you're Minnesota, right? Like if something goes bad, this could go really, really bad and we'll talk about the ramifications of that in a second. but from strictly a Charlotte standpoint, Howard? I see why they would do this. They're not all in on him and they have proven that they're not in on Lameello ball and you give me a boatload of picks to get him and you get to get me off of that contract for a guy that probably fits better in our roster and we can help build the team or continue to build the team around Coner Nipple and Brandon Miller and guys that we actually think are going to be long term guys. Hell, yeah, I'll do it. Like I see you can make a case if you're Charlotte like this is the deal that we should do at this particular time. Well, and they also, you know, acquired Kobe White earlier this year and they're now going to be locking him up. So like that you could you could see like they they set themselves up for this. They brought in a guy who initially was there to supplement the back court and their depth And now they can just plug him in as the new starter in Lemelo's place. Now Ky White does not Lelo ball for for good and bad, I suppose You're you're not putting yourself in a position where it's like you're having to scramble now to go find somebody to man the point guard position. Kobe Whitees very capable and a very good young player A I think I'm more concerned on the Minnesota side of the backfill because No Randall, No N Reid. Are you playing small with Jaden McDaniels now Um there, are you are you finding somebody cheap and free agency It's interesting Not for nothing. like these are both U new ownership groups, right? Like Laurie and Alex Rodriguez were putting their imprints on. I think even the Rudy Gubert trade had, I think their stamp on it because they were in as minority partners then with the long term agreement to take over. I think they were really influential in hiring Tim Connolly in the first place who made that deal And now you've got, you know, Rick Sal in that group who own the hornets now been in place for a couple of years. Jeff Peterson, there GM. u who could come from the nets. He's been in place a couple of years. So you you have Two newish ownership groups and a new is front office in Charlotte that I think are all kind of trying to Um you know, remake these rosters and the identity of these teams And this is the first time since the Hornets drafted L meelo Ball that I think they were in a position where they could you know, make a kind of a clear headed decision. like we've had him long enough. We've got a new is again, Newish coach, Newish Font office, Newish ownership group. And they have now decided we have the core of a great identity going forward with Brandon Miller and Conconnpple. We don't need to ride the L Mal Ball roller coaster, as you put it earlier. anymore. And Minnesota Look back to back conference finals and then they backslide just a little bit this season They traded cat because of of second apron concerns. They would have kept him in perpetuity, I think, but you know, they that was A deal they had to make and to try to give themselves some depth as well getting Randall and evenven Cenzo. now no Randall. Now no Ns Reid. They're basically just deciding, this is it now U, Rudy Gubert is our defense. U but can can we just like bas in what this, what you just said The this is it move is trading all of our ps for Lameello Ball let me back All right let me hold on the ps thing. Let me, let me just hold up on the picks thing for a second here because the full package of picks. It's one unprotected pick in twenty thirty three, which is a lot of years in the future Um The three first round swaps in twenty eight twenty nine and thirty Swaps only matter If you're worse than the team, you traded the swap two. A the Minnesota Tiberwolves going to be worse and therefore higher in the draft order Then Ch There's a chance. There's a chance right now with the current makeup There's always a chance, Logan, for sure But I think Minnesota is betting on And Edwards in Lello ball And whoever's around them, Gbert for now, he's getting up there in years Being better For the next few seasons, right? twenty thirty is four years out. So we have the twenty six, twenty seven season to burn first, but Three more seasons after that Are you better? Then the Charlotte Hornets during that span of time or at least for a chunk of it So those three swaps may never mean amount to anything And even then you're you're you're somewhat protected because you still have picks. they're swaps. You're getting the hornetss pick in that case. So I don't I may have issues with or concerns with Uh pairing the M of ball and An Edwards or Cparing LameMello ball and anybody because I've often been a Lameello skeptic and I think you're further out on that one than I am But I'm not concerned with what they gave up. Nazrid is an essential player for them. But Lamelo Pul has a much higher ceiling talent unquestionably They give up one actual pick or first round pick. The rest are swaps and second rounders. I don't feel like the investment is too much I do. U You would think any investment was too much. That part is true. But the other thing that I'm saying is, okay, so Anthy Edwards has a contract up until the twenty eight twenty nine season, right? Now right now you are auditioning He is the latest superstar that you are as a team a auditioning for to Make him want to resign If I'm Ant and I'm and listen, I'm not Ant and I don't know what's in his head right now, but if I'm Ant, I'm thinking damn, dude, you just tradeed away. a franchise pillar in Ns Reed, a community pillar in Naz Who was my homie, you traded away Carl Anthony Towns who I justw won a championship. a few weeks ago. you're trading away all of this talent and what are we getting back? right? We're getting scraps and you're putting a lot more responsibility on my shoulders to be the greatest player just for us to stay afloat You are actively takaking away talent off of this roster to and putting more respons on responsibility on me to stay afloat And The meelo ball thing can like be good, but it also can be really good. I don't look at a team with Lbeelo Ball and the rest of that roster and say, Damn That's going to be a consensus team that is going to compete with the Oklahoma City Thunders of the world. That's going to compete with the San Antonio Spurs of the world. That's going to even compete with the Denver nuggets of the world. I was starting to clip before this I'm not ready to go the there yet, but Cliff was talking about how he pushes them out of that this trade right here pushes them out of the Western conference race. And I I was talking on the phone before this and I was like, I can't necessarily disagree with you, but like That is where we're at right now. It is It is addition by subtraction from a roster standpoint. And how does that get back to the picks? you might ask Well How does they get back to the picks How does it get back for the pix? you might ask. Okay, there is a world here where this thing goes catastrophically terrible next season. and the seasons en suing after that. E and there's a world where Anthy Edward is like, man, F this, I see the writing on the wall. I see what we're doing here and I don't like it. Get me the hell up out of here. All right. That's so listen. But I'm and that has been there have been rumblings around a league about like, okay, what is Anthony Edwards the next guy to Lam? And we both know that, right? And so this isn't helping that case in my opinion. So back to the picks say if if if everything goes to shit and you have to trade Anthony Edwards, which I mean, I'm sure you'll get picks back, but we'll see because it could be a yadta situation and the picks could be it could be really, really hard to move him and get like a Kevin Durant level circa twenty twenty two level haul. We'll see But you're not putting yourself in a position to one make your star happy. And if your star is not happy, you're going to leave and then you're stuck with Lameello Ball and a whole bunch of pick swaps and the hornets who theoretically could be a better team are taking advantage of that It's a shit show going on right now. That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm saying the pig swaps mean everything because there is a world where this to Minnesota thing all goes to shit and then the hornets are reaping the rewards of that I mean if I'm Tim Connelly, I'm getting fired in that scenario anyway and I don't care T about the Timberwolves, man. T' talk about the p.ice. Yeah fans, Dg.e are have root for this team. Jesus. Hey, all real quick. All of these owners, all of these front office people, all of these players, they're going to be fine. The fans are there like, comeome on, man. What are you doing? Dg? Yeah. I know andm being facetious, obviously. Listen, yeah, there's a worst case scenario here. There's always a worst case scenario. The worst case scenario of not doing anything, Logan and not getting Anthony Edwards help in terms of scoring and playmaking and just somebody else to occupy the defense is that he was going to get so frustrated that he'd won out even sooner than that, which is why you and I were hearing even if they were like low murmurs There were murmurs And this is what happens in this league. I know someome fans hate it, especially if it's your guy who's the subject of the murmurings. Milwakee Bucks fans were really annoyed with all of us for the last several years, but guess what, folks? Those murmurings actually meant something. And here we are. he's gone now. We were right, sorry but You know, the murmings happened for a fucking reason Because people around the league hear that a guy might be discontent and they start loading up trying to get him. That's how this works And was Anthony Edwards kind of teetering in that middle world where it was like, He's got, you know He He's still firmly there, but there's a little bit of that you need to show me something soon We've kind of maxed out here. I'm a guy who's perennially considered potentially an MVP candidate, a top, you know, ten ish player But I don't have anything to show for it Um And I'm tired of getting double teamed, right? That was one of the things we kept hearing. Anthony Edwards wants somebody else to handle some of the load here. They really didn't have that. Even when you had Kat or then downgrading to Randall Even with Devenenzo coming along, you just didn't have anybody else to really carry the offensive load and Mike Cony like the fact that they had to like How many times they brought Mike Conlelly back? like fifteen times or something that you need like forty year old Mike Conley at point guard was always a little bit of a troubling sign and obviously diminishing returns there. So Did you need to go all out to get Lameelo Ball to fill that position? Was Was there a middle ground somewhere? Wereas between a Mike Conlly and Lamelo Ball? mayaybe I mean, listen And this is where we really need Raja here to balance out, especially you today, but maybe me as well. I'm going to have to play the part of Raja Beel Lamo Ball is stupid fucking talented. Like he's just incredibly talented. He's a six, seven point guard who can hit deep threes, who can pull off incredible shots from amazing angles and is a great passer. and he is going to from day one, take a lot of pressure off Anthony Edwards and keep defenses honest. That's what's going to happen. The back end of that is real quick You are chasing two teams in the sppurs in Thunder. that while their strengths are slightly different, slightly different They're both loaded in the front court. Like they've both got a lot of talent up front and The timberwolves are now just like have sent out everyverybody They're down to just Rudy Gubert and I don't is the young French kid ready to like step into a major role that they drafted a year ago? Baringer, Bar J? U I'm not even going I think that's it. Baringer So I got I got I got I got a couple of points on this. you were right to say that Um, the Minnesota Tim Rules need guard play to compete. with the San Antonio sppurs of the world and the Oklahoma City Thunder of the world. But I got news for you You know what JWub is doing right now Js look at his shop. He's like, Ohh wait, I get to get Labella Ball to switch Potentially in a playoff Cool word. cool. Bing it bring your ass over here. Wait All. Dylan Harper what everything we've saw over the summer, he's looking at field like, oh wait I get Lllo ball on a switch and I get to go to the cup on him Oh cool. Aesome. Second point is, you're right. Lameello Ball has all of the talents. He He can pass the ball. He can score, but you know what he's yet to prove that he can do that on a high level in the post season. He's never done it before. Um, so, and that's what they need right now, right? There's other people that could have that they could have Jalen Brown is sitting right there Well they right like to that point, John Krzinsky has reported the great John Krzinsky from the athletic longtime beatriter covering the Timberwolves The God heat He noted they, you know, they they they poked around Jaalen Brown but the asking price was going to be a lot higher And again, the price for Lomilo Ball just now really wasn't that high. The potential price to your point about the swaps is there in the in the in the catastrophic scenario But they didn't really have to send out much Naz Reed, you sent out one rotation guy. One Absolute, you know, one unprotected first round pick and then a bunch of swaps and second rounders. It's not that big of an investment I admire Tim Connlly's ambition here. The guy is not afraid to swing for the fenes. He got crushed over the Rudy Gobert deal And all these years later, I think it looks pretty damn good. They did go to back to back conference finals. This has been their most successful run like three, four year run in franchise history, you you can't argue with that part of it. So there's a there's a party if I were a Tim Ws fan, I think this would be one of those, you know, Uh, you know Trust the connly process kind of things where it's like All right, I'm skeptical. I'm worried I don't like losing Naz Read This team has made some pretty good bets. Yeah, I don't know about that one, Champ. I got I'm I'm miss group chats with a lot of Timber Rules fans. They are not taking that route. I'll tell you that right now. Let's stick on this stick on the ownership for a second We talk about both new ownerships in both places, right? And I think you're starting to see A smart way to go about it with new ownership in Charlotte, right? Just be patient. get assets from other people And then you see the timberwolves who historically like in a perfect world, especially if you see, you know, the new apron coming Especially when they traded for Rudy Go Bert because that was right after the Wriors title. where There was such a backlash on teams that went over the salary cap and didn't go through the draft, right?. And then that summer, you trade all of your draft picks for Rudy Go Beer. In a perfect world, if you have a Anthony Edwards or that type of top pick, you want to build gradually. You want to build through other memes through the draft, keep it cheap and then have to pay on the backe end just like Oklahoma City did, just like how San Antonio is doing right now What Timberwolves did is say, Hey, man, we're going to push the button really, really fast and we're just going to figure it out. And I think that that's what they're keeping on doing. And what happens is You don't really have any Not to say an organic rise because they did have an organic rise, but you can't keep the roster cheap enough as the team grows. So you're constantly having to make moves on the fly and There's not that much continuity there with the Temperpleall. So yes yet another season of Anthony Edwards having to figure out a new roster, right? You might be able to get away with that in an easastern conference where it's so wide open, but in the Western conference, it's This is just going to be a really hard thing So When you look at the new ownership group of the Timberwes right now, and then you compare that to what's going on in Charlotte U What is what is this move saying about Minnesota? Like what is this saying about both front offices and both new ownership groups in your eyes Well, I do just want to note that since they got Rudy Gobert, the win totals forty two, so a little, you know modest that first year, but fifty six, forty nine, forty nine. like. They have put themselves in a position. likeike, yeah, there are different ways to do this. And as you know, like the organic build would be you get Anthony Edwards and then you just keep adding guys. And they had a lot of homegrown talent there. A lot of it is now gone through these deals and chiefly Carl Anthony Towns. and it is fair to say that investing in Rudy Gubert as they did effectively cost them towns. And and effectively cost them their entire front court now, you could say, because again, towns for Randall, Randal, now a salary dump And Aaz read gone Um that Rudy Gubert at the time they got him, we always said, he's a walking top ten defense by himself. That's what he does for you. and he's still capable of making you whether it's elite, just slightly sub elite U He is that anchor. and Anthony Edwards is your offensive anchor But Anthy Edward can't it al And finding other shot creators or guys who can create and score at a super high level. is not that easy either, Logan. And they weren't going do it through the draft once you start winning forty nine games a season And besides that the draft picss were all out the window. So whereere else were you going to go? Where else were you going to get it and is The system is so tight now that Every every move you make like it used to be like you maybe could add somebody without giving up a ton Once you've hit a certain level in this league now you can't get without giving. like and it gets harder and harder. And so then you have deals like this one where effectively the bulk of of the outgoing u assets O swaps because it didn' even have pix to trade thinkink In Minnesota, you've got an ownership group that really wants to put its stamp on things. They' they're new. There's a swagger there because A Rd is A Rd, right? Like how many how many How many how many people even know that like Mark Lauri is the other owner because because Alex Rodrigue is just cast That's by design, by the way. That's by design. Which is fine But like, most fans can't name most NBA owners it's hard to miss that Alex Rodrigs is one of the owners the Mnesota Templeool U There's a swager there. There's Anthony Daviswagger that or Anthyavis. Anthy Ewardswagger that was already built into this team Like you can't you first of all, you can't afford to sit still Um And in the hornetets case, it just it's just different. The hornets are on a different timeline. They're just now starting to figure out who they are That group, I think has actually done a really smmart methodical job of They didn't come in guns blazing They came in and held ono L Millball for the first couple of years and assessed where he was at You know, what they were getting out of Brandon Miller Um Again, new front office newew coach all within the last couple of years, And then they finally hit this summer where they realizeed, okay We've had a little bit of a breakthrough here, but it was like a breakthrough that fizzled really quickly. Is this really our core going forward? We know enough about Lamello Ball now to decide Is this the guy that we want to keep building around Or is there a better path? And that may have to do with both the cap and Lamilla Ball's makeu And they clearly decided. And this is what would worry me if I were a Minnesota Timber Wols fan or the Timberbolves themselves The horet saw enough of Lamillib Bal to decide it was time to move on from him and Not a great sign. Now if the rationale is going to be purely about the salary cap. Maybe that's maybe that's the out. Maybe that's the public rationale But if you think this guy's actually capable of becoming an all NBA type player, perennial all star, fringe all NBA, is as great as his hype is Then you keep him You find a way to keep him. you don't find a way to move him And again, I don't think the return is so great that you could say, it was an offer we couldn't refuse Like I think it's very fair Again, through a skeptical lens of LMello Ball, I think it's very fair to conclude that the Charlotte Hornets decided it was time to get out of the Lomeello Ball business and that was the motivation for this deal for them I agree with you. That point you just made, I was thinking about that all morning since The traade went out at like six AM as soon as I woke up. And I'm like God, But I think one of the reasons why I was so skeptical about it in general from Minnesota's timberwill standpoint is that Yeah man, people forget Lameello Ball was the franchise in Charlotte was everything that Anthony Edwards was to Minnesota to start. and I'm not talking about a game. I'm just talking about how they perceived him Um, and and Charlotte He was that. Lameello was that And for them to give up on him this easily and timing is everything For them to give up on him right at the precipice as they're supposed to have success tellells you a lot about how Charlotte thinks about him And That's why I'm just so skeptical on the deal on Minnesota. It's like Yeah, you do have to pivot. But like you have to have a balance of being patient. and getting the right guys. when if you're Minnesota. And I'm just not convinced this is the right guy, right? Like there's also a world where you can do nothing and go to the second round again with the team that you currently have, right? and have a full training camp with Dumu, right? Maybe be better off that way still have a balance of size and scoring. Dum so you could score in a post season setting and continue to try to build off of that. I just don't think Lameelo is the guy T help you get over the hump in the in the Western conference considering what you had to give up, right? Like N is a really good basketball player. Right? You still have to compete with I don't think that we saw what happened the conference finals of the of the Western conference showed us the high level basketball it's going to take to get out of the west I don't think that This move necessarily puts Minnesota in the conversation. to get into that level of basketball. I don't think that they're that good of a team anymore I really don't I think this was a level of subtraction I don't think that they're I wouldn't I know it's one player I will. Yeah. I don't and and you know, we have a we have a running gag here that if I'm wrong, we apologize and maybe I'll apologize later if I'm wrong. But right now as I sit, I don't think there're a better basketball team with Lello ball on it. I'm sorry. I I simply don't think so Raj iss not even on this call and he's already mad at you I can feel it He's going to be mad at you than me for once U I mean, listen to the point the hornets in the Lemello Ball era. And he was he's been hurt a lot and that's part of it too, but hey, that's also a concern Um forty four wins last year Great, Aesome. They finally hit mediogre. Before that, nineteen wins twenty one, twenty seven, forty three This has not been a stellar team and you can say some of that is the middle of being hurt. You can say some of that is supporting cast But a great player is supposed to elevate everybody I do think on that note, by the way One thing that concern me on the again, back to the Timp side of this John Krzinski had a blind quote from a wolf source on social media this morning saying This is a wolf source on the edition of L Melaal, quote, He's going to make everybody better. That was the thing that was missing That could be read as an indictment of your current superstar, by the way. that Anthony Edwards was not making everybody better. Now Anthony Edwards is more of a just pure scorer, not a playmaker. I think he is you know a solid playmaker, but like if you if you're If you say that that's the thing that was missing, there' there's a way to read that that's not flattering toward Anthony Edwards. I think Lamello Ball does have the ability to make everybody better If he's willing to play that role to its hilt and not get too obsessed with a low percentage high degree of difficulty shots all the time, I'm not sure they're worse off though, Logan. They have traded the stability and the higher efficiency scoring of, you know Randall Nasread And It basically for the high highs and potentially low lows of Lameello Ball. It's a it's and you've traded size for guard playay How that works out I don't know. I'm not sure they're necessarily any worse off. I don't know if they're any better off either. Maybe they've raised their ceiling, but that's going to depend on what comes next. And this is the other thing we're so we're thirty minutes into the pod before I did my usual stipulation But here it comes. It's june twenty fifth No it's june twenty fifth L teams are going to have more moves to make when people are judging the honest deal. It's the first thing I always say. like let's see what Miami does next. Yeah, they've got a lot of holes to fill in that roster. No, you wouldn't want to roll into the season this way, but good news is they don't have to Same thing with Minnesota now. you've offloaded Randall and Reed Is there a way to backfill in the front court a little bit U to make up for what you just lost in getting L Mo ball The other thing that I would like to ask And I will ask Roger next time we see him. Who can be the adult in this room Blank. Right? like We even talked about what like they're competing as long as Anthony Edwards is on the roster, they're competing with Denver San Antonio in Oklahoma C All of them got adults in the room. I don't see that in Minnesota. And that's what you need to get over the hump Oh down the stretch of seasons I'm sorry. I really t't and every metric I think they've reggressed. I'm sorry. I really don I really do they' regressed in terms of the size on their roster adults in their locker room And deep from a defensive standpoint I think they'd be really good in an easastern conference. I I'm out on this straight. I'm sorry. and we'll see what else happens, but they do have two adult free anes Can they can if they resign Mike Connlly and Kyle Anderson, does that does that satisfy your concern for adults It depends on if Lameello respects him which I don't know if you will I don't know, I don't know that answer. But That was another thing that was that was a hindrance for him actually being a franchise player in Charlotte He wasn't Wasn't the adult in the room U And no You're expecting him. you're paying him like the adult in a room in Minnesota. and I just I We've seen this we've seen this already happen before. like the proof is in the put it. I get the age and everything like that, but You know I I I'm low on this trade. I'm sorry. every time I think about it, I just do not think this is a good trade whatsoever. I'm sorry Yeah. no, my last thought on it and not to be too glib about this, but seriously like get I hope this deal includes a stipulation that Lameello has to get a driver Minneapolis L like don't press don't put as sideide. That's the thing. that's the thing th no man. These Th into the immaturity part of this like that's a serious thing I don't know why they don't get drivers. But the thing is like we're having all these question marks that we didn't have with previous rosters. That's why it takes like You can't just see like, oh, the numbers. Oh, he scores well. He's great. He's all these things You have to go in totality when you bring a guy into your locker room. For sure And I don't I think that from weve seen with the Timberwolves and Connlly and just an overall The overall direction of where they're going and the moves that they make All off of emotion. it's all off of o, let's do this. let's do this. Oh, this looks cool. Okay, let's get this done There's not a plan Is not a real plan Um And so sorry, Minnesota Timber Wooles fans. you guys have been great to me. I love I love you know going back and forth with you in my group chat and beyond. but It was tough man. and I think y'all know this. I think you guys know this U So we'll see what happens, but I'm down on a trade. We got more to discuss And I want to get Howard's opinion on a lot more things that happened since we last. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? 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Z bound tzepotide may be able to help Bbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off Zepbound is approved as a two point five, five, seven point five, ten, twelve point five, or fifteen milligram injection Zepound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepotide containing products or any GLP one receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if zound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medulary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zip bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills Taking zep bound with a sulfinyal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems to your doctor Call one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zeppbounds. liily. com This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Comany. Whether it's the nineteenth inning, the twelfth quarter, or the fifth and a half shift, overtime isn't going anywhere, whichich is why Duluth builds hard working gear for folks who work their butts off. Their work shirts are built for function and comfort, giving a big foam middle finger to all that's futile. And the new ultra tough noQate utility shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech to keep you comfortable Give no quits. shhop at a Dulu store near you or at duluttrading. com A it We're going to do that after a quick break. And we are back. U There's some other stuff that happened since we left that I want thoughts on from The Godd Howard Motherfucking Be I'm just going to throw these things out here U Austin Reeves extension. How'd you feel about it Pool boy You knew he was going get paid But so let's start here Lakers kept Austin Reeves. good news. That's great. That was the right move. They absolutely needed to lock him up Um, did they need to pay him the max Should they have paid him the max? Is he going to be worth the max? U and with he and Luca both making the max, where does that leave the rest of your roster because this Rster still has a lot of fun That's how I react to it like literally in order U keepeping Osterves was was the right move, you know, undrafted. I think he's like all the reports that it's like the most money and undrafted players ever made in a single contract or the It can't be the first max, but maybe the biggest max Incredible. like and like great find by them, great development and kudos to Austin Reeves for making himself into the player that he's become and Luca clearly wanted him there. That's kind of important too. So Great. You've got your one two punch now, but your one two punch are both generally Negative defenders O at best hold their own for portions of a game Damn well better build out A great backline now And I don't think that that's going to be Jackson Hayes and Deandre A So There's so like there's just so much like and by the way they need wing help to wing defense. So there's a lot that they have to do still. So I guess I'll bring back the june twenty fifth stipulation, which is I will reserve judgment on some level until we see what they do with LeBron, what they do with the rest of their cap room. The good news here just mechanically for people who I know we all glaze over the second CBA stuffs starts becoming the topic. and I'm not going to go full Bobby Marks here because I could not possibly go full Bobby Marks if I wanted to s there's a timing element here. So right now Austin Reeves is just a c hold The contract won't actually be on the books until later in July after the July moratorium is over. So in the meantime, they can operate like a team under the cap and use their cap room to sign guys. And then once they're over the cap, they use the Bird rights to give Austin Reeves his max deal. So they still have room to work with here But some of that may go to LeBron And then they will have that much less to work with U I think I've said it all along. I've been saying this for months. This is a huge, huge summer for the Los Angeles Lakers for Rob Polinka and the rapidly growing front office that had been understaffed forever and that the new owners are finally insisting on building out They need a lot of help around their their new one two punch of Luca and Austin Reeves. Um, So I want to see what else they do. But when you lock up that much money in two guys This is where it becomes a lot more difficult And you know,, you know, Lucas still wants his lob threat slash shot blocker. at center Where are you finding that guy? Jackson Hayes is that guy. A. U sure Um They've got work to do They've got a lot of work to do. The thing is we're never in the room for these negotiations, right Like it's easy to say, oh, you should have held the line and paid him like X amount less than the max. Give yourself a little bit more wiggle room U you know, who else was going to give him that kind of money? Besides you've got his bird rights, you can give him the fifth year in the bigger raises. You've got the advantage. You shouldn't worry about the Brooklyn Nets or whoever else was going to come at him hard. It's easy for us to say because we're not in the room. You don't know where the actual line is. where that would have had his agents walk, right? We don't exactly know how much Brooklyn would have given him or another team potentially So I get it There are market forces at work here. Sometimes you pay a guy more than he's worth. Is he actually like a max player in the way we talk about max players? Could he carry an entire team by himself? Probably not But there are a lot of guys in this league making the max as There's only like five guys in the league that actually fit that cr Exactly Maybe ten U, and Austin Reves is not on that list, but again, market forces. Sometimes you pay a guy what you what it takes to keep him And so You know Not ideal, but I respect By and large it seems like they're going to be the same team that we saw last year this year. I think I mean, if they' going put it back with Ayen and Smart and everybody else then I think they're going I think they're probably going to run it back this year. It just would seem like that's where the wins seem to be going, right? L I feel like LeBron is going to be back like they're going to do the fair Wol tour and they're going to figure out. The thing one thing that I find most interesting in this is Lua Dsz, right? Because on one hand, yes, you do have to play you have to put the best team around him because of the talent that he has There's also Luka Donich who was saying like, yo man You seen my history and you' seen the teams that I've taken the highest tights really high heights, the types of teams The twenty two team that I took to the Western confonerence finals Um, the twenty four team that I took to the NBA finals. I say all that to say. he seems like a guy that says, Hey, man Gust get the guys that I like and I'll bring us to the prromised land. right? Like that's that seems to be you know, his attitude towards things and it seems to be his attitude towards Austin Reeves, right? He is the new dog in town. It's very simple here. Lua Don just wanted Austin Reeves to be his running mate. So Austin Reeves is going to be his running mate, right and I don't see another And also who's the other guy that you're going to go out there and trade for. that is going that you pair with Luca at this particular point Right Be that's what we're thinking about here right? And it's a really hard balance when You got LeBron in the weeds who is a league face all time history book fase. that you got to do right by, right? That's why this trade was just so nuanced and so all over the place because there was just so many tentacles from it that you have to navigate. And there's a new ownership group U, But I think about Lua Dodgers is saying like this is my guy and this is who I want to play with. and we'll figure it out from there And You know, That's why NBA players aren't GMs But you also have to take that into account, right? That's a balanance you have to take into account All right, but Logan, the alternative was Um, you low bolum or come up short He walks, he signs a four year max with the nets or whatever And where are you now? Like where's that money going? Who are you signing or acquiring instead of Austin Reeves? Who are you getting to be Lucas running mate if not him That That's what they were for. Who are the guys? Yeah. Who are the guys I don't know who the guys are out there to like to sign and this isn't a great for aidence class, you know, That's why you're doing great for, right Yeah That's why you lock. We're the same page Okay I thought you were questioning it. I thought you were saying like, no, no, no, no, no, nore I'm saying we're absolutely on the same page here Okay, other things that have happened since we L poted Wh the hell is Jayen Brown going to play next year I have not been playing with the trade machine So I have not found him a new home. I don't have a configuration here Listen, I don't want to overread into Brad Stevens' comments on Draft Night because Brad Stevens is so great at saying a lot without saying anything. Can I can I read the quote real quick? Can I read quote real? Yeah, by all me. Okay. All right. J B the way around onene of them Yeah. One of them. this is Jalen Brown is a big part of us is a big part of us. I'm never going to predict the future Every indication Everything I think about over the last few years has been building around those guys. You never know But at the same time The one thing I make very clear is how valued he's always been He's been amazing. He's been an amazing teammate and a great person to be around. Let me juxtapose that with a conversation that I had with Brad Stevens in twenty twenty three. piece that I was doing on Jayalen Brown This is what Brad said to me U in regards to the three way call that Jason Tatum himself and Jayen Brown had in the wake of the trade rumors of twenty two U And he says, you just have to have a direct conversation And you just have to be able to say this is what's real, this is what's not real Obviously, you and Jason are the two guys that we built the whole roster around in every expectation is for us to come and compete together and try to win two games better than we were last year last year being the finals for them in twenty two U and I'm sensing a pattern here where Brat Stehven says one thing in the Celtics are doing another thing behind the scenes It's really frustrating to see this not only as an observer, but if I were in the shoes of Jayen Brown where you're supposed to be a franchise guy and you feel lied to all the time I don't know if you can come back from that But Brad Stevens, I don't think is helping himself out at all. I don't know what he could have said better, but maybe just stop dangling your one of your franchise guys the only for sure Oh guy on your roster at this particular point in terms of health and stats, even though he could have been better in the post season, but I just feel like this ain't a way to treat your stars I mean Wh hired Brad Stevens Back in the day. Danny A Aames, baby Dany One of the onene of the of the all time cold blooded executives in this league, right? You know? I think people I think the nice people call it shrewd. I don't think he would actually object to the cold blooded part of this likeike he he he makes He make the hard decisions, right? whether that was trading Pearson Garnett, whether that was Trading Isaiah Thomas or not excuse me, not not paying Isaiah Thomas Um or both, I guess, but yeah, trading him after everything that that Isaiah Thomas had meant there Brad Stevens like You know, I don't know how much he would consider aange his mentor. was he was a coach under him, not a front office guy under him, but like That seems to be the way of things with the Celtics And Jayalen Brown has said enough. we don't need to relitigate all that stuff, but he has said enough and hinted at enough that I'm sure it's made the Celtics at least a little bit uneasy. and if you've already put him in you can't deny. He can't stand up there and say like, oh, no, we didn't have any discussions about Janis. and you can't talk about that anyway, probably, but he can't Deny that Jalen Brown would have gone out in a yan of steel So you're at a point now where everybody kind of knows what the score is Shalen Brown knows what the Celtics have tried to do and are maybe still trying to do not with Yonest, but with other teams and other targets. The Celtics surely know where Jalen Brown's head is in terms of what he may want It's just Common sense at this point This is going one direction and then it would be incredibly awkward if they got to Media Day training camp in the fall, which Alen Brown iss still on the roster Does't mean a deal is gonna to get done, but Um Look, I look down the list. like there's the obvious stuff, right? The Hawks Atlanta is home. He's from the Atlanta area. And that's a young team on the rise that has a lot of stuff You know, could you cobble together the right pieces to get them? but could you do it without seending out their jailin. you probably want both jailin' Um, are the seellers going to do it without that But he's also making a lot of money, Jayalen Brown. And so like this may be another one of those deals where The end results the the return package may not be as spectacular as everybody would expect. I do think it would be U pretty pick heavy. But yeah, in the East alone The haawks, the raptors Yeah I don't think that he could get him. I'm sure they would love him. They don't have the room. U Out west, like the nuggets could really use a jolt. U go Lakers would love to have Jen Brown They're not going to be to f them now. I don't see a Laker Celtic trade happening anyway. The roockets would be great Um You know, there are teams that are in various states of kind of rebuild or trying to move forward. Like the Dallas Mavericks are another team that should be at least investigating I don't know who's got the goods. Again, I haven't played with the trade machine There's there's like no shortage of places you could see potentially wanting Jaylen Brown as their' on line one The king don't know one I mean, I think the kings are too far in the hole to decide that This is the but like, but the grizzlies aren't right? Like the Grizzies just picked up Isaiah Start. They've got some really good young players that they they've drafted over the last couple of years But they're tearing down. They're not going to they're not. I don't think they're gonna on T tear in Memphis They just Yeah but they're not going, but they're not to get like Boston isn't going to take back Joh Morant. That's that's not going to happen. No, that yes, that is a problem I don't think Jw is the key to a Jayalen Brown deal or a key to any major deal. Jw's going to have to be probably a net negative giveaway in whatever trade that they finally make if they are able to make a trade at all. By the way, not for nothing Last season, early last season, it was look at these three teams that are all stuck with with these flawed or problematic point guards. John Morant, Trey Young, Lameello Ball Two of the three have now been dealt And Well, that's how it always goes, right? How many times we say Russell Westbk wasn't going to get dealt and he got dealt a hell of times. No, but I'm just saying like I think there was there were some in some parts of of, you know, the NBA or at least NBA fantom, there was pushback about you know just about the whole theme surrounding those three guys. And so there was, you know, the jokes about just trade them all for each other What we've seen so far is Tyon got traded for next to nothing. Lemelo Ball got traded for You know, some stuff It it's decent. It's respectable, but it's not some package that would blow you away. but it it tells you everything you need to know about how the league actually viewed these guys and John Morant is still stuck in Memphis. because it tells you everything you need to know about how the league views John Morant and he's going to end up going last of the three And probably for the least of the three, which you know, Trey Youunng set a pretty low bar for that one already Um, yeah, no listen, I do think that the grizzlies the way that they're moving right now does not suggest to me some like long term rebuild Um But we'll see. U Anthony Davis What does he do right now ere's he going? Is he going to be on the on the rostter next year? Doesn't seem soough And some team is going to be out there desperate to be like, oh, yeah, we get twenty twenty Anthony Davis. I'm like, I got news for it's not twenty Anthony Davis. Like I can't remember somebodys going to talk themselves and just thinking that and trying for him I can't remember who floated somebody this it's just the haze of all the social media stuff. and T much radio and podcast and everything else. somebody threw out the idea of Anthony Davis for Jayalen Brown at least as the basis for for a deal. that would be I mean, that the Celtics What a big. Yeah And the wizards are certainly in the midst of something Um Um I don't know. but I never thought at the moment that they traded for Anthony Davis and Treay Young that this was uly the path forward for the wizards but they just locked up Trey Young on that insane extension. And so I guess he is their future. Anthony Davis remains to be seen Yeah. Um There's a lot of hubris going on right now. Last thing I think I would ask is something that I've been thinking about is has this And mee and Cliff were talking about this earlier. has this new era and new apron era, if you will So far been helpful right withith all of the movement, right? Because on one hand, yeah, it's entertaining But we just had like a really historic finals couple of weeks ago and I feel like this is just undercutting all of that momentum as a league and it's just turning back into the soap opera. And maybe that's the what the NBA wants, right? L they want to be a year round league, but Where are we right now in terms of like this flurry of action so far and like you know, on a personal level, like if I'm a fan of a team and there's such constant movement of players Star players It's like, do I ever get to know this team? Do I ever get to grow with this team in the highs and lows? And maybe that might be undercut by this new era. But like what of this last week Tell us about where the NBA is going. That's always a question Id ask you, so I'm gonna ask you again I mean, look, the NBA has always been about as much the the off court like drama and spectacle as it is about the on court. likeike there's nothing new under the sun there. And like, you know, sixteen years ago this week, we were all sitting around, you know, watching LeBron entertain all these delegations from various parts of the country going to Cleveland to go meet with him and his team. Where's LeBron going to go There's always been versions of all of this We don't have superstar free agency anymore. It's pretty much dead. So we have superstar trades instead. So we get YonS and we get I'm not going to call them Mllow Ball Superstar, but we get to the Mow Ball trade, we will have you know, potentially a Jalen Brown trade Um This is this is the NBA off season. This is what we love. I don't think it overshadows or undercuts the Kicks championship at all. I don't think, you know, as I sit here in New York, anybody in New York gives a damn about any of that stuff. They're still all just reveling in the glory of the Kicks right now. So they don't care about It's going to be December and they might be like ten and ten and everybody's going to be like, I don't I just what a chip. likeike there it's. I don't think New York is even going to care about winning or losing for the next like two or three years They're good for a while I think they're good for a while Um But the NBA like it's always been like this because of the way that the schedule is structured, right We go straight from the finals to the draft and straight from the draft to free agency And then there are just deals coming off left and right and everybody's leaking everything and there's tampering going on left and right. And so deals are being done even before they're supposed to get done and all this stuff. like It's the fun of the NBA off season. and I think If anything, This should be reassuring. I think people worried that because of the second apron restrictions and teams ducking that apron or the first apron, ducking the tax you know, we're this is the closest to a hard cap the NB's ever had. People were worried like Is any is there going to be any transactions at all anymore? That's part of the f of the NBA And it has eliminated Superstar free agency for the most part But it has pushed everything toward trades instead. So we still get our pyrotechnics. We still get our transaction wire. We still get, you know, social media lighting up with all the rumors So That part of it for the league. is all good. And then as for the rest of it A lot of what we're seeing is at least partially or wholly the product of the new system But it's created this parody where everybody thinks they've got a shot. The Minnesota Timber Wolves think they've actually got a shot to go to the finals with the meow ball. How about that? What whyy not Why not? U We'll see. I think no matter what the I personally think getting back to timimber Rules before we get out of here I think that no matter the case, And no matter the structure, no matter the apron, no matter the era