Wembanyama's Multigenerational Talent

Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of T turns out, it's more common than you'd think Pyrony's disease, or PD for short PedD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis This can cause a curve or a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self esteem, and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD The actual cause of PD isn't always known In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity The good news is PD is treatable If you notice a curve with a bump, A trusted Uurology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment To learn more about Pironi's disease, visit talkaboutpD d. com. Hello and welcome Group Chhat. I am Justin Varrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, Jay. Kyle manan Finals partod. Let's go, baby You've been very chanty lately. Is it something in the air? Is it these teams? Like what has you suggested I feel the spirit of competition just coursing through me, baby I love that for you. I love that for us. and I mean, of all the places the season could have gone, this one is a fucking exhilarating outcome like to be here in the finals with the sppurs in the Nicks two teason. I'm super excited to talk about. I just I know we kind of flirted with this idea coming off of the cup that like what if this was a finals preview in a way The idea that that of all things ended up being present is kind of silly, but also kind of rewarding Yeah, it'd be fun to go back and listen to. I probably will go see just what we said about that maybe before the tip off on the game just to get a little feel for this. But it's a fun. We'll get in more more of this in the details, I think of the show, but It is a really fun juxtaposition, matchu, whatever you want to call it between two teams that are in different situations. One like ascending with a lot of unwritten you know, character shape whatever it is in who they are with the sppurs and a team that's kind of figured things out over years and had many highs and lows in the Kicks. So on that level, it's very exciting. with a lot of superstars and a lot of lot of different ways that this could go. I think we need this swelling brass behind us as we talk about this One team on the trajectory to the next level. Another team hoping to make history Medicine Square guard or something Was there a costus intro? because I was begging for one and I like was setting up my projector and missed it. I ended up I was like, I missed something I was begging for. W there was there an intro? I thought that was if you were ever going to do one, I thought game seven in that situation would have been it Aren't you just the average modern consumer, Kyle, complain about the lack of something and then don't even pay attention to it whether or not you got it. Yeah. I scw time up. I thought it was eight thirty and it was eight. so I'm like you know all over the place. Yeah. The amount of complaining I hear about like the pre game show or like the mid game show and like I just never listen. I literally just ned it just to make sure that I'm like on time when ball actually tips off because it takes an extra fifteen minutes after they say it's going to start. But there's a lot of pom and circumstance going on about this matchup, not only just because the matchup is incredible, but also like Twitter bulling works. So we got the big old trophy back on the court, which is how you to see. Also saw that there's like the two hundred and fifty, what is it bicentennial is happening. and so they have a patch all of a sudden on all the jerseys. I was just thinking, two hundred fifty years of the US That's nothing Like we are just a speck this on this space rock that we're all traveling through time with. That's wild. Pivot did we just take? I know. two hundred fifty years though That's not that long ago This is just occurring to you in the grand scheme of human civilization that We're nothing out here? Seeing a news brief about a patch on an NBA finals dourney That's right. So does that mean in the grand scheme of existence, are we the spse? You know, are we? Are we on the ascendants of something just starting to I mean, look to be honest, we're just getting our legs under rest. We've mostly been faltering around for the last couple hundred years, at least So maybe maybe our brightest times are ahead Well, that's a good segway. We need to take a break as per usual, but when we get back, we'll talk NBA finals preview, but first we got to talk about game seven what This episode of the Ringer NBA Sh is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Ener for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kiebler Chips deeluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrear Roche squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. By any two for rarero brands and you could win one million dollars. Official rules apply. Learn more at go allinandwin. comot Before we go look at the NBA finals, we need to talk game seven Western Conference finals So I would say the kind of the enduring images I have from that matchup. and there are a few of them One would be the give and go early in the game in which Wembi just basically took check Homer's soul, just like real quickly, never recover from that one, unfortunately Uh I would say the corornet block Yeah. of Hartenstein, Certainly But I think the one that I'm going to remember for a very long time is down the stretch the spurs turn it over Okay, see needs a quick bucket. Say gets to the rim. but Oh no Weemby's there. He actually has to pull it out and all of a sudden has to reset, even though they needed the bucket as soon as possible, they needed to come back And so like that's kind of like We're up against Rob. like that seems like the real like tidy glimpse of what the future holds where it's just like You could be as good as as the Thunder could be the two time MVP, but when oneB is standing there, everything changes They're an amazing team and we just saw them march to the title last year and yet down the stretch of this one, as it got more and more desperate It was interesting to watch like who was game to even take shots? Like who was even willing to step up for the Thunder? And like Caysason Wallace was one of those guys who was willing to pull Alex Caruso was willing to pull, but it's like canan't all be that, you know? and Wemby and the Spurs have a way of kind of backing you into a sense of desperation, as we've seen over the course of these playoffs. So making you feel like right or wrong All of your best options have been taken away, the things you default on, the things you rely on are just not as bankable as they used to be. And so Shay had an amazing game Honestly, I was really happy to see it. him put together a good shooting game from the field, just like hitting more of his mid range stuff, being a little more immutable in the way that we're used to seeing him be immutable. And yet it still wasn't enough. Like the fundnder just couldn't they couldn't summon enough of that other stuff around him to make this an actual you know, an actual game that they could pull out down the stretch, but A tremendous thing to watch and a tremendous thing to watch just like every spur by contrast seem to pull those plays out of the mud Yeah, I mean, Justin, you mentioned that play that first play the game that was I mean it was almost like a baptism like a reverse baptism because it wasn't the kind you want to be a part of where Wimby yeah just like Wby just really caught Jet, you know, scrambling out of position. even if you're in position, Wimby is a tough thing to deal with, but, you know, I remember, you know, flashing back to I guess it was we were doing the young core rans wereeren't we when the cup was going on? I think that was like we were all together in LA. and I remember I remember us having conversations about, you know, what is it that makes a player go from a nice idea to realizing and crystallizing into a superstar. And I've always kind of believed that like you know, who you are in the paint is kind of what dictates your ability to be a superstar. Like what what is your functionality there? And it's like Windy is just a gigantic asteroid Speaking of you know, the history of the eararth and how things can change, Wimby is a gigantic asteroid in that in that lake where, you know, he just causes extinction level events for who you think you are on the floor. And you watched, you know, Shake got in there. and I think that was a great play to point out was at this critical point in the game where you would think your superstar would get into the paint and make make a play He does this thing too where it's like We were talking about Nashing where I was talking about Nashing last week where you keep your dribble alive intentionally. Shay got in there and had, you know, normally has the intention to score there. He's like swiveling and turning back towards the perimeter, which is an excellent place to be if you're on defense. and you're you're like reading Shay's eyes just chewing up clock throughroughout this game, man, it was just it was really impressive. There's a lot more that we could get into. I know we want to talk about the finals, but Wimby just picked his spots really well, you know,, Spurs had role players that came up and hit just you know, Julian Champpeanney was just nails throughout this game. Unbelieve This this team just kind of answered the bell in some ways that really, really left me reeling for a few days. honestly. I was just so impressed by by their their youth the way they stepped up. Well, the crazy thing about the Shea play as well is that Weemby had five foouls on him and he was cruising through a lot of that fourth quarter with five fls, which made the lack of aggression from, I think stand out in particular where it's like at the very least, try to get him out of the game just by drawing contact and he just wouldn't do that. There's that like pretty popular clip that everyone's probably seen by now of him soon as he gets the ball hot potatoing out of there. and unfortunately like I do think this game will be remembered as kind of an inflection point for Chet. He's twenty four years old. And so there's still a lot to be written with his story. But like you could see these things just like burying certain players. like the extreme example is obviously Ben Simmons. I really don't think that's going to happen to Chet Holren because of all the extra things he does in addition to offense, like the fact that he can Typically shoot the ball or just play defense really well and protect the rim U I don't think it's going to happen, but like this does feel like a bit of a crossroads moment for him and perhaps the Thunder U What do you think, Rob I think Chet is an amazing player against like twenty seven teams. And this is just one of the matchups that is uniquely awful for him But if that one team that you need to go through, not just this year, but in future years hangs over you all the time, it can define your story. It can tell you know it can become who you are as a player over the course of your career in the way that you're remembered. So It is an inflection point. This is a, you know, the Thunder are going to have a lot of decisions to make about How much to continue with this shape of their roster versus how much they want to start planning ahead for what the next five years look like in this sort of competitive environment And Chet is going have to be a lot better. Like that I'm glad you brought up that play too, Justin because that is one of the indelible images of the game is Chet passing up. Re any opportunity to attack Victor Webinyama one on one or otherwise, but that one was so glaring and so damning can't be A non score ineffective in guarding on the ball on defense and just like The contrast of putting Jaylen Williams in the game and him being so much more effective than Chet, Isaiah Hardenstein coming into the game and giving you so much more to offer than Chet It can't be that way like him it can't be like that for him forever. So He's going have to change a lot. but I think the Thunder might have to at least consider how they want to go about the creative suite of their offense. Like just having AJ Mitchell back was not going to change the outcome of the series, having J D back might have and having both of them certainly might have. but E that might not be enough the next time these two teams meet in the playoffs I've had that same thought that you were saying about, you know, against everybody else. It's like and Chet we mentioned this earlier in the playoffs, you know, when he's got Yondre eighten in front of him or he's got these typical big guys, it's just He is a certain level of like wiggliness and cross section of wiggliness and skill at a player his size that is a handful to deal with for most fives in the NBA, but it just so happens that a player who has his same traits but just happens to be, you know, six inches taller is playing at the same time as him and it gives him all kinds of problems and even like the proportions of his wingspan are longer, you know, it's like so He is just sort of an answer to everything that Chet does well. and I've kind of wondered if But was say, you know A lot of the panic, I'm not really going along with people on that front because I feel like it would be it would be pretty short sighted and really Yeah erroneous to like overreact to this because I think there's some go ahead Also antithetical to everything we know about the Thunder and the way Sam Pressi operates. like trading Chet Hgrin now is not really the kind of thing the Thunder do Well no, if No, but I think he's had a long enough track record that he actually has done a little bit of everything. L you want to pigeonhole him as someone with the long view, but really like as soon as the Giddy problem arose, like he got rid of it. It's a different level. Like trading Chet on a max when he still seems like pretty integral to what you do is different than Giddy. was a problem in the regular season going into the playoffs just became such a big issue th those in the playoffs. But like it's so funny because it's just like, oh, well, maybe they won't go star chasing, but it's like, oh, he also pulled off the ball George trade. And so there's a lot of things colliding at once. I don't disagree that I don't think it will happen But I do think it's in his backag to do something more extreme than you expect I don't know about the extreme on the high end. likeike yes, going chasing after Paul George is one thing, but like obviously what's in the air right now is Jonis is on the trade market. Could he be an option for the Thunder? and you know, whether you want to put Chet or JadeW into that conversation is up to you ' it's not just bailing at the first sign of trouble in the Josh Gittdy kind of mold, but also trading youth and a player who has a lot of career ahead of him and a lot of opportunity ahead of him for someone who is a little more defined and who has an injury history. It's like It's accepting a different kind of risk that We have seen the thunder make trades and make moves for the here and now. I would say more so in the previous era than this one This is where we're kind of getting with OKC. It's like all of the pieces are maturing to a point where they could start to make some of the like, do we trade for a Kendrick Perkins? like I'm saying metaphorically not a literal Kendrick Perkins type, but like do you make that sort of move that makes you that much more formidable and solid in the playoffs at the expense of some of the youth you've worked so hard to build It's just a tough proposition and Ched in particular such a fascinating prospect still. I just don't think they would pull the plug on him so quickly I think that he's well, you're right that he has almost had like a Taylor Swift kind of eras thing where we've seen him do different things. but I think there is a pattern among them though where it's like, if you compared it like I think of like songwriting, it's like changing the instrumentation or the where the sections go. like some of the core structural things, he's been he's shown a willingness to do those things early on, but They're at the point now where they're tweaking, you know, the mix. They're tweaking sort of the post production things of what they of this realized thing that they have. I don't know that he would go back and just be like, I'm going to like change chang the core the structure of what we have going on here because it's worked also because this game went this series went to seven games. Yeah and they were missing an all star and they're arguably some you an all NBA guy and then NJ Mitchell. I was just going to say, I think there's some tweakable things where I think the speed, this is just much F be it for me to give Chet Hunger and basketball advice. but I just I'm looking at the speed of some of the things that he does and we talked about it. the load upp of his shot and his comfort levels shooting it quickly. the difference between him and Carl Towns who the Burerss are going to be facing in this series is gigantic. And I think that Chet is going to have to He's going to have to raise his comfort level shooting the ball faster. if you look at some of the moves that he relies on on his self creation He gets to that little hop backack and then the spin, it's very slow. grranted, he's so much bigger than everybody else that it doesn't always matter against Wimby it does. I just think some of the speed and then his handle is probably an area where he could fix that. But then also just having all their guys is going to change the parameters in the situations where he catches the ball Yeah, I do think adding some strength would help. I just think adding a degree of physicality would perhaps like round out things in a way that perhaps could lead to him like getting more time for the three pointer or at the very least, like having more confidence in it because after a certain point, like it wasn't just this game. It was kind of trickling throughout this playoffs and especially came to a head in the Western Comnce finals where it's just like He seems a little shell shocked. L most of the time, And I do wonder if like incremental progs will help that. I would be surprised if they did anything with him on the trade market if only because he's at the Nadeer of his Valley and that doesn't seem like a psty move. If I was to be concerned overall about like the thunder going forward, I think it's more about Case of Wallace kind of insinuating that like perhaps he would like a bigger role and maybe they figure things out. The thunder despite anything big they do have to figure things out because of the second Apron and so many of these contracts like coming home to Ruse because both JW and Chad's Max kick in next season. but like If you have a guy like Wallace all of a sudden, you don't w the title and he's like, o, I want something different. likeike that becomes an issue because the great thing about depth is you have this wealth of talent But all of a sudden, you're spinning so many different ples, right? With a big story, it's like, oh you just have to worry about disease diseases more in their caseing Yeah. You can't really like as an organization, play against like human behavior. L just like someone having aspiration in a different way that doesn't align with like your bigger term goals The fact they've gotten this far is already kind of a master class in the subject But like different guys wanting out and wanting different things, like then it becomes a little bit more tricky Ch So so perhaps they do something in that regard. Maybe it's just to even open up a playing like more playing time or even a start like a regular starting role for him, but Something's going to happen I think that's the easy answer. We already talked on a previous pod about Lou Dor and his future with the team. It seems pretty clear that Kaysason is ready to usurp a lot of that opportunity in those minutes. It's like You can get him a more consistent starting role. You can get him more minutes, You can get him more on ball touches A lot of that is already here within the architecture of the team to do It also did feel to me a little bit just like a guy negotiating his extension in public as pretty much happens with every player as they get into this stage of things. likeike the Thunder Aa team that for very understandable reason would want to like mind its finances very specifically to try to keep as much of this core together as they possibly could. And Caseason Wallace also rightly so is out here trying to make fucking bank and deserves it. So Like there is that tension. there is that push and pull But I think you're I think you're right to identify this, JV because it's so much of the talk around the Thunder and around NBA teams in general these days is from like a fantasy GM kind of perspective of like, oh, you have these players, you have these picks, you have these assets. If you just keep them together and add this other piece voila title. But all of these guys have their own agency. All of them are gonna to hit their own free agencies, All of them are gonna be able to request or push for trades or be unsettled by their roles. It's like those human elements are so easy to gloss over when you're on your way to a championship. And I think a little easier to take for granted at a moment like this where It would be understandable, if not predictable for some people in the Thunder to want a little bit more than they already have the distance, there's a pretty funny speaking of distances between players. It's funny how how different it is between Dort and Cayson where it's like we're so excited about how willilling to embrace the moment Kayson was at the end of that game. We were just like, Damn it Kason Wallace hell, yeah, man, bigig shot. like he matched that big three that Keldon hit in the corner Drove to the basket high glass floater and you know, contrast that with Dort's lack of fear of the moment where you're like, oo, be a little more afraid to healthy fear. Yeah, maybe don't do that. likeike when we don't take that shot the early threerees, it's like you know, I'm sure a lot of ulcers were formed because of Dortart's fearlessness But something's got to happen. I mean, we' talked about like they have three picks in the draft and you can only roster one guy as of right now. like there's going to be more activity for a team that as we mentioned, without two of its top players came within like a couple points in a game seven of going back to the NBA finals in an era of great parody. L like it's really a slim thing we're talking about here. So the Thunnder don't need to do anything Germanic. I agree with what you guys are saying But like they have to do something because they have to do something. Like the math doesn't matter Right. They will have to make some moves with their roster just by the numbers as the reality of the situation. Also like As we're talking about what the team needs and what the offense relies on, like they need a version of chet or a player in that spot who can stay on the floor in a game like this and make productive plays A little shooting also wouldn't hurt more generally, a little more ball handling to relieve some of the pressure on Shay. would help Ideally, you're getting that from JW and AJ Mitchell, but one other option wouldn't hurt things either. And that's where like Nicola Topic is sitting right there. We're going to see if he's ever a real active member of this rotation at any point. you know, he's had a lot going on over the past calendar year. Maybe by next season, he's a more entrenched part of what under our So as a result of the Thunder Losing, we will now get our eighth straight different champions Which I believe is unparalleled. How do you guys feel about this overall? Like is it nice to have something new every year Or I mean, the whole thing about The Cav's wararriors squaring off every year was like that actually like the ratings suggested that people actually love that. They loveved their two favorite teams the history and the storylines going at it. Like Wh where do you guys fall on this map I love what it does to us. Like the way and I say that us as like a broader basketball people the way it forces us to reconsider what we think we know about the sport and what gets a team to this point. All of the truisms of life in the NBA are kind of melting away given What's going on with the cap in the apron, given the rigors of the NBA regular season just like I guess experience kind of matters, but doesn't. I guess like certain kinds of teams get to the finals except for all these other ones. L there's so many counter examples to counter examamples to counter examamples now that I like I feel invigorated by how like back footed we are trying to make predictions about literally anything That part does feel exciting to me Well, yeah, it goes back and forth and I was sort of like flashing back, just trying to imagine what I was thinking and what people were saying that granted, the wararriors C cal stuff was like I mean predated me covering the NBA most of it. but I remember going into those finals. reallyally being riveted and exciting about them, but also there was the counter of I remember people being like, they ruined it, you know, it's a funny, it's a funny balance of people thinking that that was ruined because that we had this expectation that was met every year, every June because those two teams would be in the finals. I personally, I think back to about like my years really enjoying baseball, which has gone on and off, you know, throughout my life where the times when I was most interested in it was like evil Empire New York Yankees years there when I was in high school, like in the early two thousands where they were just this you know, daunting force that, you know, we had to find a way to take them down. Everybody was just like Empires are fun in sports So And on the other side of it like keeping with the with the Star Wars comparison here, it's just like, you know, when there's peace in the galaxy, it's kind of boring. Like Oh, it's like the parody is like You're saying NBA is I know I know we're going grow. Yeah, maybe. I thought Rob was going to say that I'm like a fascist at heart or something here, but I just Do you see what I'm saying? likeike it is the pair empires are fun. I like that everybody has a chance to win but it's like I also don't have a team. so I'm coming from that perspective.'t I'm you know a neutral observer here, but I like that everybody has a chance, but it is fun whenever there's this daunting thing that needs to be taken down. likeike that's fun theater to me I agree. I think the problem with Cav's wararriors is that at a certain point it just became predetermined and fatalistic where it's just like we knew that was going to happen. And so it was just kind of a fast forward effect through everything else to get to that point unless you were like really ingrained in the finer details of the day to day of the NBA. This doesn't have that. and so perhaps we could have our cake and eat it too. like if the sppurs ascend and they are the big bad waiting there, but things are different getting up to there or at the very least there is enough, especially in the West in order to perhaps muddle that if its like the thunder like that that one team that they're going back and forth, but there's a different team from the East. It would help a lot if the East played their part because the East playoffs was pretty cut and dry this year. Maybe like injuries finally like sorting themselves out like with the Celtics and cast finally getting their shit together like Maybe we'll have a good east playoffs U But yeah, I think we're headed in the right direction is what I would say I think so. I mean, just when you think about what are the things that are narratively satisfying about TV show, a movie, a sports season, like whatever it is, it's like you want that uncertainty in the middle where everything feels a little bit muddled. It can't feel like a straight line or else we just talk ourselves into it too quickly. and by the time June actually comes around, we did our NBA finals preview in like November. and so what is even the point of going through this exercise one The Kicks to have a moment of crisis in January, February. You want times in the season where it was like are the nuggets the best team in the leag? and are they going to march all the way to the title through the Thunder to get there you want moments of consideration of like how deep do the ranks of the contenders actually go? and the more and more parody we see in the league, I think the more we're going to be open to considering As we did this year, like, who are the next version of the pacers? Who is the team that's kind of hiding in plain sight that could pull it all together at just the right time you want all of that confusion, even if in the end, it's who you expect to be there. becausecause I think that's just what creates that sort of logical consistency of like Okay, we've seen the trials of these teams. We've talked ourselves through all the alternatives and all the options And we still got somewhere that made sense to us I also think you don't want the outcome to be to determined too much by like injuries which is also a sad part of this, and it probably segates nicely to our first question Let's talk about Pay Roni's disease, or PD It's not widely talked about And some men may feel reluctant to bring it up But it's more common than you'd think PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve or a bump during an erection that for some men, may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment Visit talkaboutpD. com Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck And the person who drives it That's a Chevby person Probably no one. Buddy. sister. Oes who always show up do the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too Chevrolet, togetherogether let's dririve visit Chevy d. com slash trucks to explore the lineup We don't have a new fresh track for the variables. We're going to do this variable style, but we can't call it the variables. So we are going to call this our MBA finals variables. okay? We're just not gonna spell it in the correct way because I don't put my stamp of approval on it. We're just spelling it very V ARI. A BOS dist That distant thumping sound you heard was people in their cars hitting the roof like this Damn it, ye, they're driving off the road I over I don't know what to do with a normal variable anymore. I'm just used to orienting my life around variables That's the exact reaction I would hope you to have. So these are just variables. They're not vararables It's messed up I guess, you know, we will try to soldier on, but I'm uncomfortable at the prospect, I have to say. It all this is all so important. It's all so important that we figure this out and get all those details right.s I love hearing you guys work through it. Thanks. Yeah Perhaps someone can get Travis Scott in Sweden and just have him just cut us a track real quick. You had your chance to go make your flee in person and you chose not to. You prioritize doing your job the grind is there, man. He had to do it which for everybody listening back home you should know that everyone at our company is currently at Sweden, listening to Travis Scott. and not us doing team building activities. I don't know if we' do there. It is, but we're talking about the NBA finals and we're going to talk about some variables have five lined up for us. First, I want to talk about experience So as you may know, the spurs are way younger than most teams they get to this point. In fact, according to an NBA statistic where they weigh age based on postseason playing time. The Spurs are the second youngest team in NBA history to ever make the NBA finals. Can you guys guess what number one is Well, I'm assuming it's not the Thunder. Thunder are number two, so last year's Thunder are number three, excuse me, So the spurs are two, Thunder three Wool was a particularly young. canan we get like a range of time? Like how distant is this? seventies? I was like sevent. Okay, yeah. It's Blazers then. Yeahah, right. The Blazers Yeah. I read that book this summer so Yeah, was I was trying to think back about u recommend that book if anybody hasn't read it, but Yeah And then eighty six Rockets was the other one, right? That was pretty young. Where are they on the list? Do you have it? I only have the top three because that was the only thing on the cote card. so that's all we need But I think it is notable that two of the top three teams here come from the past two post seasons from the West It does feel like we are in a different era where younger teams are ascending more quickly. Perhaps that's just because we have generational stars on them and also like these teams got to the depth element quicker than some other teams. And so there's a lot of things at play here. I guess the question, Rob I havefer is like how much can we rely on the old axam at this point because experience typically dictated some part of the playoffs and ultimately titled Win winner. Do you think it matters at all? or if anything, do you think it helps that the spurs are young and perhaps more fresh in an era where like injuries are starting to mount as well It always matters in some way And I mean, we talked a little bit about the pomp and circumstance of like the promotion of the finals at the top of the show. It is true that it just like feels like a totally different environment. If you are a player in this series, it catches a lot of guys off guard in terms of you can see the jitters, you can see the nervousness, you can see the pressure of playing on this stage. I think it catches up to players and people in ways you might not always expect And I don't think it's going to divide along like young guys versus old guys or sppurs versus Kicks or anything like that in part because it's not like the Kicks have a wealth of championship experience either. Like Mcillel Bridges has been to a finals. Jayalen Brunson has a, you know collegiate championship experience, very different thing. OG An Aobbe is technically a champion, but was not a part of that Raptor's run whatsoever because he was injured And so everyone is kind of on a similar playing field. And I think one thing I have come to learn about watching the sppurs throughout these playoffs is evenven though they are not an experienced team and this is the first real run for the Spurs group It's also every opponent's first opportunity trying to understand what the hell to do with Victor Webinanyyama on the floor. And that is a totally unique experience. that when you have a superstar who is that singular that you have to account for I don't know how much experience is really gonna to prepare you for that kind of thing Yeah, I think it comes down to just sort of how you ground yourself whenever things start to go sideways, really or you know, and sideways can take a lot of different forms. you're hit with a stage that youre that you're not used to or, you know, there's a run happening or whatever. I listen to it like in the off season or just throughout the year. Ill I just will try to hit myself with like voices of I'll listen like coaches and things like that just talk about basketball to just mix me up and what and just hear just different things odd, whatever it might be a strategy thing or just Chemistry, philoshy, development, whatever it. But there's one coach that was talking about just the storm basically that happens in a big game where, you know, the other team is going on a run and you can just see it happening. like the cavves are an example of when the storm hit They just kind of the side of the boat, let go of the rope, whatever analogy you want to use. And throughout this game seven I think it's spinning this forward to what to expect from the sppurs, but in this like game seven that they won, there were several times where OKC was coming and they grounded themselves. You watched it happen in real time where they've just repeatedly shown this ability to be like the and I think to get right and stabilize. and I think a lot of that sort of ripples out from Wimby whether or not he's scoring or not. It's just he has a conscientiousness. He's never like freaking out. I told you all like when he was younger he used to kind of get carried away and he doesn't really do that anymore So I think that that's going on where I just think that I'm not going to bet against their ability to ground themselves. grranted, the final stage is a little bit different But then there's the other thing that was seing earlier is that We kind of know who the Kicks are in a way. Granted they made some adjustments like with the way that they're using cat that we could talk about, but The spurs are so unwritten and they're still getting better. Like Dylan Harper is not the guy today that he was in December when we were talking about them. Stefan Castle, same thing. Wimby, same thing. They have so many dudes who are ascending in a way where the Kicks, who's ascending on the Kicks at this point? They're all kind of in their primes, right? They're in their Yeah, they're in their primes, but like I think Cat OG and Mcale are all playing like as well as they have ever played. I'm not I'm not diminishing them when I say that. I'm just saying we know who they are more where it's like the sppurs are still working towards that. They're not too yes ages. Yeah, I think the flip side of this too is like how much injuries impact a team and how much just the gauntlet of a regular season into a long NBA finals long Host season is affecting certain teams. Tom Habersau has been calling this the championship tax or the postseason tax where it's just like you're starting to see the wear and tear and perhaps that helped the sppurs in the Thunder matchup where they lose two key players, but like I mean, we say this all the time, like how much load management is needed. I feel like I use the word torque more in the past year or two than I ever have just because of the amount of just stress on the body just going through all this is happening. And I think that's something we need to reconcile with and because if you look at the teams like, yeah, the sppurs have had their dings, Fox and Harper, we'll see like they looked Harper in particular looks really good those last two games against the Thunder, But like these teams are largely healthy outside of Mitell Robinson all of a sudden having a broken finger hand situation. That swung the series back towards San Antonio. The fact that those two dudes looked normal because in the games they lost there in the middle of the series, they were non they were not themselves Yeah And I think in regard to this collective toll, I agree with you about like the sppurs getting healthy, getting Fox and Harper with momentum is a huge thing for them in this series just as it was in the conference fininals. This is a different way to think about something experience, but this is also the third consecutive Kicks opponent that's coming off of a seven game series into a series against the Kicks and ask the calves how much fun that is. L This is not a team you want to play if you're in any way weary. And so The break for like even a little bit of rest, I think goes a long way for the sppurs Getting those guys back, the guards in particular, with their legs under them is a huge development for them But if the physical and emotional toll of the Western Conference Finals is hanging over San Antonio in any way, and that was a huge series for them to bust through and win I mean, the Kicks are exactly the kind of opponent who can take advantage of that. like the momentary in attention, like any any lack of commitment to detail The Nyicks have shown they can exploit that in really explosive ways over the course of this post season All right, so since we're talking about the next, why don't we go to number two here? Unfortunately, we don't have a nice little jingle to to car us in there. and so you could just Make one up in your head, Rob, unless you want to pump something real quick. You don knowt I'm good. This is just a regular old podcast with regular old variables Uh, so The next playing probably the best of anyone in the playoffs, just absolutely steam rolling. So since they went down two to one on the Hawks, they've won literally every single game since they are eleven in er just absolutely blistering on both sides of the floor. So Kyle I'm curious what you think about the Kicks just overall, like what's different about them? because clearly last postseason when we last saw them, things weren't as Uh just free flowing and fun, I would say, under Tom Tibido What are you seeing from this year's mix that have allowed them to have such success Uh I mean, their role players are playing fantastic. I think we can get to the root cause of why that is. I mean, I went and looked this up specifically Bridges Cat Brunson and OG. the only guy in their starting lineup that isn't seeing a significant jump in efficiency in the playoffs It's Josh Hart who's adding, you know, as Josh Hart does, little little intangible things all over the place, But, you know, bridges during the regular season forty nine percent from the field He's at fifty eight point six in the playoffs. Kat was at fifty percent during the regular season, he's at fifty seven Let's see OG is a big one here. forty eight point four during the regular season. He's at fifty seven point seven and he's shooting almost forty nine percent from three. Yeah. those guys are getting better shots and making them, which is a function of things that we've talked about in the past on the show, which is that they're just letting p the ball more in the Hawks series that was him and this is an interesting kind of path that they've been on as opposed to what they're getting ready to see in Victor Wenama where, you know, the Hawks didn't have a true five. That's something that's going to behoove them in the offseason and in the draft is to go answer that question wherever that is, But he could just pass over the top of a Kong wu and that was, you know, play more inside to out. in against the, you know, The Sixers who had, you know, a sarcophagus out there, a corpse that was, you know, artists formerly known as Dlan Bed, it was a little bit more They were using their guards to kind of screen each other. He was playing further out on the floor and the same thing with the calves. So I think that's been the biggest thing is that they, you know, whether or not they're passing against a team that has a smaller big from the inside out or from the outside in the way that they were in their last two series. That's what's worked, but that's going to be radically different against the Surs. And I think that's something that we we should pick at a little bit But if you told the Rob of twenty twenty five or twenty twenty four that the Kicks would become that kind of team. I don't know that I would have believed you. Like I don't know I would I excited if you told me that. mean' dynamic I would be incredibly excited, but it just it did not seem like it was in the DNA of the way the Kicks played of who Jayalen Brunson was, certainly of the way that Tibbs was coaching. That was a team that has basically run into the wall three consecutive years in the playoffs. and their only solution was like I guess Jalen Brunson back up and run into the wall again and hope you burst through it this time This whole playoffs has been an exercise in What if instead of doing that, we just scaled it or just walked around it? what if we what if we made accommodations to not go through the hardest part of the defense at literally every opportunity? And I think shifting from a team that needs Jalen Brunson to do everything into one that drafts off of him to do all of this other stuff has just unlocked so many things about who the Kicks are, who these role players are. It's given them a depth to their offense and I say that not just in terms of like tapping into the bench in ways that they didn't in previous seasons But just layering in alternatives that don't involve Jalen Brudson and having to dribble for fifteen seconds to make something happen Yeah, it's crazy like how stark of a change it's been. And to that point, the Nick fired Tibbs one year ago on the day of game one of the NA F final on Wednesday, that will be the one year aniversary of Moving on from Tibbs and like it just feels night and day. I mean, we should mention that they're just shooting the shit out of the ball in a way that like a few teams do going into the playoffs. They're leading the playoffs in two point percentage and also three point percentage. basasically shooting fifty nine, forty, seventy six as an entire team. And so that helps that like all of their shooters have been dialed in except for Josh Shar who ironically had a very good regular season, but apparently like these role players that just shoot the hell out of ball all of a sudden just apparently can't stri a divide between regular and post season. I mean, I think the cat wrinkle is something that we should talk about here where it's just like his playmaking has just been an absolute other level. Like basically his disist percentage is like approximating Brunson. Like he's been doing so much more of that. And I do wonder if like he's able to continue that going into this series, how much does this change Because like all of a sudden Can you stick a smaller, more physical guard on him, which the sppurs have in depth because you don't have the length in order to kind of impede some of his passing qualities because he's just so big and he pass over the defense. And so I just I just think he's playing like the best I've ever seen him. Having said that, that does worry me a little bit because I do kind of feel like this entire finals rests on Kat being the sort of guy that we haven't seen before He's going to have to be awesome. I mean, we've seen it over the course of these previous rounds, but it's like yeah, can he sustain it against increasing levels of competition and now somethingomet he's never had to confront in the playoffs before in this firsturs team and Victor Weeminyama specifically. Um, It's going to be an incredible trial To me, like cat has been the answer to all of Brunson related questions, frankly. Like the whole like is Jalen Brunts like can you win with a small guard driving this much offense The answer is yes, if you have a center who can also be a playmaking hug and see over the top of the defense and just the way you describeed JV. So it's like He is the piece that allows them to get to all of these options more quickly to balance all of the threats on the floor more succinctly than a small guard having to play out of a double team every possession down the floor. And I think The larger adaptability of the Ks is the story of their postseason and they've just proven to be Frankly like lighter on their feet in shifting from strategy to strategy and tactic to tactic than any other team in the field. And Kat is a huge reason why Mike Brown is clearly a huge reason why and he deserves a ton of credit for layering in All of these things over the course of the season, even when they weren't entirely working and pivoting and pivoting and really turning Everything the Ns have done this year into such a fluid adaptive process. If they hit an obstruction, they alter it slightly, they tweak slightly, they change their rotation, they change their approach And Kat has become the kind of player who allows you to do that, which is an incredible transformation from the sort of like bone headed, overfouling, like can't trust him to establish post position kind of flaky playoff performer, he was in his younger years. like he really has come into himself Yeah, and what's interesting is his touches are almost the exact same from these past two playoffs They're right at fifty. So he's made a really conscious change that he deserves a lot of credit for in terms of their offense, though to speak to what you're saying there, Rob, I think It's the Valentina Hot sauce thing. I don't know if you guys have ever used Valentina hot sauce. I use it all the time. so I'm very eager to know what the relevance is to my life You ever notice the spout of the Valentina? It has it one hole It has two holes. You know why that second hole is there so that it comes out smoother. It needs that extra needs the air extra needs that extra airflow. And I think that This is something that's true. I mean, coffee cups also a lot of different than. Miller Light had the thing where you could like those with his hot sau. his proprietary Valentina technology Uh An anyway, it's or like you'll see like a a fire barrel that'll have a ho punctured. It's the oxygen. You want the And I think that cat doing this has given them more oxygen so that they are burning hotter. But with the with the experience, I think You see this with like old college teams a lot of times. they have like this ability to make adjustments that make people guard longer into the clock or just like they'll make a bu you know quick adjustment that is executed efficiently. You know, you can have a good idea if you don't execute it well you know, your good ideaas as a fart sound basically, but, you know, the Kicks, I think have u, I'm just I'm interested in the matchups in this one. Do we want to we segued to the matchups part of this? because I know this was something we were going to officially segue to. Are we at that point of the pod? Right, We can get right to that rightight after this break The Ring or NBA showh is brought you by Fandul. It all comes down to this. Who do you think will be wearing the ring at the end of the NBA finals? Make your call with Fandul Right now, new customers can hit the court with three hundred and fifty dollars in bonus bets guaranteed after betting five dollars for seven straight days Fando is the best place to bet all your favorite players during the NBA finals, bet on their baskets and boards or build a same game parlay for a chance at a bigger payout Looking at the finals, looking at finals NVP odds. Wey Bronsson top two I don't know how much you're going to make off of that. So I kind of like towns plus two two hundred. kindind of thought it should have maybe been the Eastern Conference Finals MVP. can see if things go right for the Kicks, he would be in position to perhaps win fininals MVP. So at twenty two hundred plus twenty two hundred, just give me towns for finals MVP. just visit fandal dot com slash rringer NBA to get started twenty one plus select states eighteen plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming, first online real money wager only, minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days, bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus best which expiire seven days after receipt. Gambling problem call one hundred gambler. callall one eight eight eight seven hundred eighty nine, seven seven sevenenty seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut Number three on the docket. We got the matchups A lot of them to diagnose here Um, whereere do you guys want to start Well, maybe just start with like the most interesting one and is it or are we all going to agree that it's whether or not Wenbygards heart. I think it has to be and That's not just a question for this series, but I think it's going to be the question for basically every sppurs playoff series for the foreseeable future is where is Victor Weminama on the floor on defense? because that is going to determine The vast majority of the game, the vast majority of the matchup, like what the other team tries to do and where they're frustrated and It's just kind of awesome that a twenty two year old who is maybe the best player in the world is dominating in that way. that that's how we have to think of him. It's not even who guards Wemby yet but like much How much of a problem can he create for everyone Be we just saw him put Chet Holmgrren in a prison of his own mind without even guarding him Yeah, so they last faced off on march first during that torage stretch where I think the spurs only lost since february first Four games, three of them wereth of the nuggets and one was that game on march first to the Kicks. And so in that game, Weemby guarded Hart Castle guarded towns, Bllon Bridges and Fox was on Brunson I have to assume they do something to start with at least the same. They'll start with that just because of the way they guarded Cuso until he hit a ton of shots Um I think that makes sense, but Kyle, I think this is ultimately circles back to your cat point where it's like, can you get away with putting Castle on Cat because the physicality that he plays with perhaps matches him But then on the flip side of that, you have the playmaking part of this. And then you have the old dimension of like the three point threat where like Kat is probably I guess Por inggus would probably be the best version of this, but like Kat is approximating this. like that would be if you were to draw up a way to kind of counter what Victor does, not necessarily just completely erase him, but like someone who would provide him difficulty. would be like a stretch big who could play makeake from the top of the perimeter that forces you out. And so once again, it seems like Kat has the key here Yeah, if you were if you're trying to think of the ideal of a type of team that would stress the spurs in an interesting way, it would be like o like you said, a shooting five just so happens that maybe, I mean, you could throw Dirk is obviously in this gu people start quibbling about who's a cinner who isn't a center. it's like Kat is if he's not the best shooting center of all time, he's right there in that short list. He's an incredible quuick like He's one of the fastest shots, really, really efficient. So that's going to be a unique thing I'm kind of curious you mentioned like putting Castle on him. I kind of felt like it was implied that Castle would be on Brunson. I would start there Is that do we agree or Are we on locks up on that depends on how healthy these guys are. like can Fox not take that? I think the problem is with Kat, like you want the physical like is Visell physical enough? He has like a slight bit more of length. But I thinkd probably be champaged it would be the alternative, right It's either do you want a little like a little more size but not as much physicality with Julian Chimpenni? or you want someone like Cassso who can sort of bait Kat into maybe being aggressive in ways that aren't productive for the Kicks. And you want to put a guard on Oji as opposed to putting Chimennei Oji might be the strongest guy on the court Yeah, which is a legitimate problem. L him being that strong on close outs is a real weapon in a way that he's not just like a normal three ind Dy threat. Yeah. I mean, I was looking at this and I was you wouldn't you don't really want to make changes like this at this time of the year, but I was like I'm going to be curious to see the staggered kind of lineups when Harper is out there to sort of strengthen the the sort of switchy chain that the that the Spurs have access to here. I started from the like The Kicks are an interesting parallel like stylistically to the way that the Thunder playay granted the way, you know, adding Cats playmaking hub part of this. the spur the the Thunder don't really have this, but they they do sort of rely on a guy who is mostly in isolation scorer who's just a little bit smaller. I would throw Castle with talking about Brunts obviously, I would throw Castle on him. And then I kind of tried to arrange this around to figure out a way to have Wimby knock Gardhart just because that's the conventional thing that we all agree on. I'm like, I don't want to just be like that's for sure. But it's conventional for a reason, you know, it I know, I know. It's such a tempting option Yeah, Fx whoo Fox guuards is almost as interesting to me because I'm like The thing that the Kicks have that the Thunderdil have is that I think their shopmakers or their extra spacers are a little more reliable and they're bigger. You know, Bridges is six seven and OGi is six eight. They're really shooting the hell out of the ball and then you have Kats shooting the ball too. The size and the quality of the shooting in that size, I think is a big difference between the Kicks and the Thunder Yeah, I haven't sketched out like you do, but I think you're kind of circling the main like kind of tension point of the series where it's like in a way, this is kind of the final boss of the sppurs being able to trumpet their build overall where the Kicks are almost like the extreme version of what we're used to where it's just like these big physical wings that can go both ways For that reason, like the physicality of a lot of these guards that the Spurs have is met with like physical guys who are also bigger than them. And so like the push and pull of that is going to be interesting, especially considering the boards element. We can get into Mitchell Robinson and like the injury effect on him, but like They're just not going to be able to push them around in a way that perhaps they had some success with with earlier opponents U I just I just see the skill advantage just being such like a a tilt the other way where it's like we talk about Harper like It's funny because I have everything all matched up but then I throw Harper in there and everything just goes out the window because if he's going to be healthy. it just feels like he has his way of just crashing the party and completely upending things. Well, Donan Harper has proven to be the kind of guy who yes can attack one on one. We've talked about his driving game, probablyably ad Nausea on this podcast But he's also come up with like monster offensive rebounds, a lot of random little plays where if you don't account for him are like backbreaking plays. Th were gigantic plays in that game where he' stuck from the corner. Th need to be shouted out. I'm glad you did Completely. And also as we're talking about the defensive matchups for the Spurs Don Harper, we shouted it out too, also did a great job one on one against She in a lot of situations. Just like a counterintuitive, like really disciplined staying down, understanding the fakes are coming, not getting baited or pulled into anything And Jayalen Brunson is a very similar offensive proposition, much lower center of gravity, very different body type, slightly different game and approach than Say. but another guy where it's like you have to be zeroed in on the scouting report in order to have any credibility holding down that matchup. And Harper, crazy as it sounds for a twenty year old, I think can come off the bench and do that for a good portion of this game. I think I wanted to attack one thing with the with the figuring out We've talked so much about how their role players are playing better. The percentages are better. That is the result of a source thing. I think is going to be different in this series because the entry points for the Kicks, I think are going to be stressed in a way that they have not been stressed in previous like the calves didn't have the ball The Kicks have not faced the ball pressure or the rim protection that the spurs are going to throw at them. And I think that they have ball pressure options here that are going to they're going to be able to play very aggressively at the entry point of cat whether or not that's Vll whoever it is. and they're going to be able to be very aggressive and put OG and bridges and whoever it is in the position to be more decision makers. I think that could be a big difference. That is one of the key things that I'm watching in this in this series is their ability to like really go balls to the wall on those two fronts. Yeah, and that's why I think this shooting is so critical. I mean, you could say that about every series on the board, but this one in particular, just considering how well the Kicks are shooting, but also like how much that will force the spurs to be a little bit more oututside of their comfort zone and play Wemy like in situations where you can't just like deter literally everything in the paint. I do wonder if this is like a call for Samot because he's just been shooting the shit of the ball. I think he missed one three in the entire Eastern confonerence finals, which is saying something. And but now that would give them a five out strategy, which could be like advantageous offensively onn the flip side of that, like it also if you're playing him alongside Brunson, that's like two targets out there. then all of a sudden like you see the sppurs guards being able to like go to work again two different targets as opposed to just Brunson. And so It's a tough juggling act. So there's a lot to work with, but I could also see it just flipping very quickly if the sppurs are able to work that advantage Yeah, because when you think about what the Nicks alternatives are, it is like, okay, are we going to put Shamon out there? Are we going to put Duce McBride out there? Every alternative that the Kicks have. with Mitchell Robinson. we're assuming sidelined at least for the start of the series. maybe he ends up playing in it and playing a role. Well, he says he's going to play just from game one. He's going to go out there with a broken hand, but which is for a guy who's weird mostly just dunks like that. Yeah. And it's also like because it's been reported as like a broken pinky, but like I think the New York Post had something that it's also the metacarpal of the hand. So it's a broken hand. It's not just pinky. Would wearod I mean, with with Mitch does it matter? notot that he's a suooter. It's going to affect his live drivel passing How's that? But I think Emmy L it probably does like affect his relentlessness on the glass, like his ability to hold and control the ball. likeike all that stuff is really important. and all the other options the Kicks have are to go small in some way or another Sin is right here Good to know it's in the right. I mean Here's hereere's the thing. when you start if the spurs by putting Victor Weminyama on Josh Hart can kind of nudge the nicks to these sort of five out lineups with more spacing on the floor. You're trading off Hart's rebounding, which I think is really important in a series like this. You're trading off some of the chaos in like the full court random transition sorts of possessions that Hart has a way of like infusing himself into And you're giving up some defensive size too. Like I actually think Lander Shamit is targetable, but like pretty competitive on the ball. like he will actually fight and like Do his due diligence in a match upp Brunson is targetable, though. Duce McBride, even though he's an absolute dog, like you can shoot over the top of him if you have enough size working in your advantage. And so I do worry about all those like downstream effects for the Nicks. if Josh Hart becomes a problem because Victor Webonanyyama feels like he's everywhere and I kind of suspect that he will. You just have to go smaller so quickly and we haven't even talked about like what happens if Catar OG God forbid get in vall trouble in this series? And what do you even do trying to guard Wimby the other way? when Cat gets in foul trouble. And that's another thing where it's just like Not only is Cat probably prone to do that even the midst of like this reennaaissance that he's having, but like how much that's going to spark the transition on the other side of that? And like if you get like the fury road going for the spurs, like all of a sudden that means so much more it feels like in this series and some of the past that they've had just because the spurs are just absolute terrorism Who do you think is their Doof wararrior? Like who's the guy shing the guitar? You weren't gonna just throw that out there. That was gonna get Is it Is it plumly Oh, it might be more Bismac, honestly. Yeah One of those two is sure. Yeah I don't know. I'll have to pondnder that one. So on the flip side of thing here So they in previous matchups, Kat hasgard Weemby and then you could effectively, I guess Hide Brunson on Champiney and then you're basically just sticking the perimeter guys on the three guards here Do you expect anything like beyond that? And like, I guess how do we feel about that in terms of the next side of things I mean, I think they'll probably have to use Brunson as a bit of a whackamle, like scramming him out of some of that matchups if they try to target him by like bringing Champanney up to set ball screens. You can kind of like hide him on Vissel sometimes if Bruunson is willing to fight through some of the off ball stuff That's an if But I think that's what it has to be is a little even a less like what is the one spot on the floor? And how do we keep Brunson moving within our defense to make it more difficult to be targeted This has been brought up a few times too is that I don't know like if If Wimby has Cat on him, I see that being a potential foul issue like you were alluding to, like he's Wimby, I think could get past him. I don't know that he's as physical a defender even as Hardenstein. I don't know how y'all feel about that, but I could see him causing him problems and there is a little bit of a history of OGi doing a decent job of getting up under Wimby and causing him problems. I almost Almost expect that to be the match upp Well, yeah, I think OG, if you're gonna carve someone out a stone, basically be like, let's just figure out a wembie defeendnder I think you look sort of like that He liter is carved out of stone. am I right? I mean, you seen that guy What a guy. But I think that leads to the question of where you stick cat at that point. Like Yeah, you would probably want to hide him onch and Penny, but Brunson's already over there under the covers just like trying to get by. I also think Mitchell Robinson has had some success with Wemby in the past. and I also think like M Robson matters a lot this year, notot only because like they require so many of the extra possessions to do what they do. like they're just so physical on the boards U but also like to stress the potential minutes for Weemby because all of a sudden like I imagine you would want to match Robinson's minutes with Cornet in an ideal world. But if Robinson is having success and Cornett isn't up to the task, like do you have to rush Weby back and all of a sudden, like that starts to spin in other ways. And so like I feel like this broken hand, which seems like it occurred under suspicious circumstances. It didn't happen during basketball, the next you're saying. so like maybe he was just so mad he was spackling. Why are you throwing the wolves like that? I can relate this is one of the most dad injuries of all time. I was reaching for my son's lunchbox and a stack of pyrexes slid off onto my left hand Oh my go. the stupidest injury. I mean, like and I would like screaming and it would broken for like a year.ers don't. I don't know if you've had one of those. It was so painful. I had to sleep with it flat on my bed at night. L it was like it would hurt And I'd still play basketball. And if somebody hits that while you're playing basketball, it's it is, it is rough. I can't and I'm not a dunker I'm not a dunker as you guys know. Were't the finals were dictated by some rogue tupperware And that's just what knocked Mitchell Robinson out. The Injury you described sounds horrific. I'm sorry you broke your hand in that way. I hope that's not how Mitchell Robinson broke his hand U I also think too, like if he is not Mitchell Robinson We've seen the Nix be like a really good all around rebounding team in these playoffs. The sppurs are not a team that usually goes after the offensive class in a super aggressive way like tactically But they absolutely could. Like if Mitell Robinson isn't Mitchell Robinson Kat and or OG get into foul trouble. the Kicks are playing small. There's going to be a lot of opportunity for second chances for San Antonio if they want to pursue that and you know, there's the transition trade offffs, but I think it could be worth it for them Those were some of the biggest plays of the game. Yeah, the one even the missed shot in game seven that I think Champenny One dribbled that pull up to and Castle was just wide open and caught it and rebent and put it in and then Harper and things like that. I was curious too though, like The second unit part of it, you were talking about Cornet in this series. That was such a huge assumed advantage that OKC had. I don't know that it's as much of an advantage in this one because I feel like their second units are way, way more evenly matched speak on that. like what specifically do you see in that? Harper I mean, Harper, I think Harper's got way more space to play in that second unit if if they just run them out one to one like that. That's that's the biggest thing, honestly. and I don't think Cornetz is overmatched honestly in the second unit as he was against OKC And especially if that rebounding ends up being a factor in the series, like Cournet can be a really great offensive rebounder. So There's just like a lot of like there's the big advantages that the sppurs have. and then there's a lot of ways they can clean up around the edges that have me a little bit worried about the Nicks especially because everything we just said about New York and how agile they are tactically All that stuff is harder to pull off of Wimbi is on the floor, right? Like the idea of like, oh, we're going to hit these cutters No cutter really looks like they're open when when B is playing the field. And like, oh we want to tap into like part of the reason McKale's been so good over the course of these playoffs is because he's become a driver again and it's not all jumps shooting That's a different proposition if Wemby is waiting for you in the pain. And the same is true of OG. So it's like all of the layers that the Nicks have introduced. Brunson playing great baskball but also have empowered all these other guys They are sort of challenged structurally by just having Victory Wemin Yam out there not guarding Josh Hart, especially if that's the case Yeah, it is funny because the Kicks like spent so long digging in the crates in order to find like a credible bench and it does feel like all of a sudden like they're up against just an abnormal bench where're just like these guys should be starting in different situations. And so like the Alvarado types, the Clarkson types, all of a sudden, they just feel over matchure unless they can just catch wind Like the special MSG moment all of a sudden, Alfarado has a five minute stretch where he's just causing terror. I can see that. But other that, just like on paper feels like a pretty big disadvantage. And also like let's see Carter Bryan, likeike he seen his built for this because it at least physically like matches up fairly well. We'll see like what state of emotional distress he's in based on some of the mistakes he's making on the court, but like I don't know. just feels like the spurs are almost like backloaded with the type of guys who can erase a lot of those advantages We say that, but it's like the Kicks have found ways to get like great things out of Jordan Clarks in into these playoffs. Lgitimately playing nine deep and every one of those nine guys has had a huge like hero moment in some series in some game or another. So I don't take I don't take for granted anything that New York's Bench does anymore. but Dylan Harper is a tough standard for any bench to measure up to. Keldvin Johnson, I thought just instrumental for the sppurs over six and seven of the Western Conerence F finals in particular. They're going to have to provide a lot. likeike Duce McBride is going to have to shoot better. Landrew Samon is going to have to still be a conquering hero somehow. Like theseese guys are going to have to continue to deliver in ways that M not even be fair to expect, but it's like that's what a title requires Yeah. I mean, that variance just comes down to those whether those guys we're assuming Dylan shows up like he did. He's a rookie. there are ups and downs. mayaybe he doesn't ave maybe Ebbs and flows a little bit in a way that hurts. You' talking about Keld manan. someome of those threerees he put up, I was like, o, Kelden, what are in like It went in I was like, o my God. Yeahah, I was like, my heart would have been racing if I was first manan That stims the bkes, thoseose are the margins, right This is kind of just what I've been saying in my mind about this entire series where it's like, well, what about this for this person? What about that? What about that? But then it's just like the Kicks might just be charmed in this because every time you think like whatever advantages they've had would just run out, like the fact that they're shooting would just all of a sudden like law of averages the other way, it just hasn't at this point and like maybe it just doesn't. But we'll see. it kind of gets us into our next question, which is like the magic of the finals basically. We have two teams that based on their winning would be a pretty huge mark in history. Wendby would win his first title twenty two years old Or the Kicks would win their first since the early seventies Um, which one like kind of gets you in your feels the more? L what's the what's the warm and fuzzy outcome that you're looking forward to hear I think for me it's the Ns And it's the history is part of it It's bigger than that though. It's not just like, oh, it's been so long. L that There are longer suffering fan bases by like win loss, by playoff draghts. likeike the Nicks have had some good teams here and there. They've never been quite on this level in a long time U But like It wasn't that long ago that like Mitchell Robinson was playing with Emmanuel Moodier and Alonso Trier and like Innes Canter slash freedom. like The recent history of the Ks has not been all that great. And I would say this fan base has dealt with like about as much like insane shit as maybe any other fan base in the league. Sixers possibly accepted. That's a particularly strange and cursed situation And so the idea of Nick fans getting to celebrate a team purely on the merits, purely on getting here, purely on the vibes, based on like the narrative arc of pulling their season together in the way that they did I just think it has been such a rich and satisfying part of this. And so getting to see New York celebrate a championship Nicks team would be amazing. and getting them to see like to celebrate a team like that that like many great champions had its moment in the regular season where it's like, arere these guys just gonna completely fall apart? And they definitively did not and pulled it all together and somehow became better and more like more cohesive than we ever would have expected Like that's what I want out of sports. And so if the Kicks were to win I think the process of getting there would be pretty rich I mean, I think you can't lose. this is a win win for us because there's a lot of cool stuff going on, but I think there's obviously the big part of, you know, the Nicks fans, the history, all that stuff in a place that loves basketball to an abnormal extent on all fronts, but like within that like poly pocket of a narrative, there's a lot of little pieces within it. I always thought The only reason I thought of poolypocket is because my son has a spongeBob poolypocket and it's been on the top of mind. ate He loves it. What was the name of the like when we were growing up lack of a better description? Yeah, the boy version. It's like it's like monster Mic or something. It was like Yeah, maybe it was a Mad Max. could be I'm not of mad I'm ex to see that Wh's arere there enough GenX guys going to see that Masters of the Universe He manan movie by the way. Have you' see it looks like the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. I can't Sorry I don't know if you were I gotta go see it for content to know. No. not looking forward to it. Ilator started to talk. I was like, Oh Jesus Christ So I I Googled Boy version of Polypocket and it mightighty Max. Mighty Max, We like fucking ripped Some real skeletal vibes from Mighty Max for sure ure Castle Gr Skull, all that stuff. But within, you know, there are a lot of little nice narratives within that big poolypocket. justust better branding polypocket better product works Yeah, better product. But you know, there's the the Villanovai, there's the chemistry rolling forward from college. These guys are playing together. There's the we figured our shit out stuff with Cat. There's redemption for Cat. There's a lot of stuff going on there. There's Tibbs is pissed. What's going on with Tibbs How many pencils is Tibs going to snap angrily watching this this because people snap pencils angrily watching basketball games. But then on the other side,, I think we can't lose just because Granted, we expect Wimby to be here. I mean, I think we all are just we think he's on this track and it's like it's early, but he'll probably be, you know Either outcome I'll be happy with, but I have to ch towards the Ns because because because of their history and all those things that I said, Yeah I saw someone jokingly say that if Weny loses this finals that all of a sudden he can't be better than Michael Jordan, which really I think put things into perspective about like how early the arrival has been here and how much in the long run, like it matters and which is to say that like he will have perhaps a decade plus career of these sorts of opportunities and so this is just the precipice of that. Having said that though, I think in the long run, when we look back fifteen years from now, it probably will matter more because of stupid things like that because if you don't win every single one, if we're having bar room discussions about who's the best player and all this other stuff, like that That will get brought up. that wter lost the title and like Jordan did not lost the finals. And so I think for the long run, I think the Wemby one matters more. I think in the short term, the next one is just It's front and center. There has to be one of the longest suffering NBA fan bases that we've seen. It's funny because you know whenever a team makes a title they'll just be those boilerplate headlines, you see things I think I saw it on ESPN. it's like the Spurs make their first NBA finals since twenty fourteen. I was like that wasn't that long ago. L not me like I think that was yesterday. And so like there really hasn't been a ton leading into. This is the start of something the Nicks are just hoping desperately to reclaim something that they've been pining for for What is this now? This is Five decades, it's fifty Three years, I think it is. It'ss wild. It's been a long run, man. And yeah, I hear everything we're saying about the Spurs two and the idea that they would just like we assume they would be back here. We assume this is not the last we'll see of them. But as far as like how these teams got here, The Kicks were so like unsparing in their deconstruction of all these last couple rounds that like there wasn't a lot of drama to it. And I think by contrast The sort of game seven days that you described, Kyle like coming off of Villic I was just sitting there on my couch being like What did we just watch? Like how did that happen? How did the team that we kind of all expect in the Thunder to have the answers to be marching down an opponent to be like responding with all the big shots They looked like they were just like out of gas, out of out of responses, out of players who could hit the shots that they needed them to hit I was just like left there reckoning with what the spurs are right now, which is not something that I think we expected to be doing this season And certainly've we've done enough guessing as to like what the next couple years of this franchise could look like, but The ahead of schedule part is inarguable at this point. L these guys are too young in theory to be doing this and yet they're debunking all of that shit in style with like a flare that's so impressive to watch with a calmness to them that is I really don't know how to describe or explain they do feel like a team that even now I'm like trying to wrap my head around how this is possible, even more so than the next. I'm going to throw out what I said before because W women o or what? No, yeah, everything I've said scrappy, let's start. No I want to retake. No, it's with Wimby I think it's Honestly, the You can't operate with any kind of past any kind of precedent with how you're thin about how this matters because the league is changing the what how easy it is to keep these teams together and it gets late We've learned repeatedly not to take title windows for granted. and Wimby's an interesting case where You hope he stays healthy. I want him to.'s but this is all feels I hold my breath every time it goes down, you know, there's that side of it. But you know, I think we should learn to like not assume And maybe this is me teaching myself in real time that you know He may maybe this we always assume that he's going to get back, but these it's gotten difficult more difficult on the capside to do it. And Well, I don't know. man We're fifteen months removed from him being shut down with a blood clot that might have altered the shape of his career. and now he is the most dominant player in the Western conference en route to the NBA finals We knew that was possible, but it's still shocking. Yeah. And like how many times in the past five years whenever a new winner like emerged wasas it like this team could win two of the next three or threeree of the next or. I think the Thunder, it's like it was warranted, but like there is this I think rush to proclaim a new era of dominance. and all of a sudden, like, That's not how the NBA works anymore. And perhaps it's like we need to get used to it. But I will say this is the stress test of that theory where what we were talking about before of like parody, eight in row, different, like maybe this is just how it is. like we could also be on the precipice of a pre and post wey dominance. like could be he could just erase the next Five years of history But you're right. Like I just don't know how many how much theseese new things are affecting like how we come to learn the emergence of like the next great town. But what are we supposed to proclaim? Like we love to proclaim on this show. and we can't even to proclaim The ends of eras, the beginning of eras, like we'll find something else. I feel confident in that. How would you proclaim a winner of this series Be go a ask questions docum. Number five. Nice. Prediction time And you should know that whatever you say here will be held against you and will ripple through time in the same way like Webbey's leegacy Thank you. No pressure I think it's Burson six I feele like that answer is probably a cop out. It's like the classic, like we're giving respect to the other team But I want to qualify with this. I think the Kicks can absolutely win this series. Like I think that the pieces are there. We talk through a lot of them in terms of the unique challenges that they pose for the Spurs I just see like a couple more avenues for San Antonio to make New York uncomfortable and to destabilize what's gotten the nix to this point that I lean slightly in that direction But I think things could swing pretty erratically. I just I have a hard time talking myself into watching the Spurs team that we just saw come up with all of these defensive responses to the Thunder and an energy advantage, a momentum advantage against an opponent of that caliber, not find a version of that to do for the Kicks, even though it'll require something quite different. I I went into this think as we talk through the series and kind of the matchups and the problems that could come up. I had come into this with this like creeping suspicion that the Kicks could get it done. And I do think they could get it done, but I think I would just tilt ever so slightly towards San Antonio because of that. Ganted, they have a lot of they have a lot of variables that like certain young players playing well, certain matchups going well It is a different series, you know, it's different for the Kicks facing the spurs, but it's also the Kicks are going to pose them some different problems too with their competence at that like two, three, four spot with their size and theirre shooting Tilt towards the spurs in seven I had previously tilted towards the Kicks and seven I'm just ever so slightly tilted towards the spurs. but I agree like I really don't want to like downplay how good the Kicks are. Like I do think they could win it That's kind of where I am. I have a lot of respect for both teams and almost a toss up tilting towards the spurs Is it wrong to say that the Nicks Stress the sppurs' disadvantages in ways that even the Thunder did not. Like the match upp overall is actually worse for the sppurs than it was with the Thunder, especially with JWout I think that is true and to play it the other way too. I think if the Thunder had survived the Western Conference finals, I think I'd be picking the Kicks right now. Like I think Both the Spurs and the Kicks are unique challenges for each other, which is what's going to make this series so fun to watch and see these guys try to navigate it. but Yeah, New York Tack like, they just do They have developed all of this muscle memory for how to tap into these different elements of their offense that a Thunder team certainly without JW and AJ Mitchell, like they just don't the flexibility to do that. And also home court, right? That's a That's a thing here too I could see in my mind's eye that the Kicks are winning. likeike you guys like I could see it all playing out. I could see T Timothy Chalmay wearing some like oversized shirt just like high five in a random guy on the floor at the Spurs arerena because all of a sudden the Kicks are bigger and b and just came in there and one att least the game But just I get back to the fact that like it really does have to be Towns, I think playing at the levels that he'd been at before. and I just can't see him conquering what I've known about him for so long in order to defeat like a team like the Spurs and with Weemby is just the ultimate sort of U just a component here, variable dare I say Uh and so I went Spurs in six I really wish I had the fortitude to go Nix and six because that was my initial like what I wrote down, but then I went through it all I couldn't stick to it, but Spurs and six We're all spur You heard this, Nick fans. I had more respect for you. I said sppurs and seven. These two said I respecturs and six four. I respect But this this is the problem with the sort of like, I'm going to take the screen grab of like all the picks of the people just like sppurs bur,ur, burst, bursts because I do suspect there will be a strong sppurs consensus in the prediction for all this. You just can't like rotten tomatoes this shit. Like it's really not as simple as like eighty seven percent of nobody talking heads up on They're not. You can you can just explain it all you want. Nobody's going to have that in the clip. It's not going to make the clip, man, I'm sorry. What are you doing trying to add context Continue hedging if you'd like, but Look, I'm gonna keep fucking proclaiming all day, including if it's adding context Kyle has the extra game cushion. so it's tr got the seven he's high roaded us for sure. Yeah. I had one thing about Wimby here because Wimby's the central thing of this is that people keep saying that he's generational. I don't I don't this is gonna sound inse. What generational How is that true? I don't think he's generational. I think he's multig generational He's bicensually like I just know because he's never he's unlike anything we've ever seen. L peopleople have made up that that clip of him contesting that Jared McCain. I rewound that in slow motion over and over again him contesting that corner three in transition. I don't that was one of the most incredible plays I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen anyone do anything like that. I just don't. So that was what Maybe that's an absurd thing to say, but don't I don't even think he's generational t don't know where to put the cap on And we're about to see him make thirty plays a game like that on the biggest stage in the sport with that sweet sweet trophy on the floor in the background. Like I'm already looking forward to the iconography of this series, right? Like what are the moments as we talked about coming out of game seven that we're going to remember forever I have no idea what Wimby will be capable of in that regard, but I put nothing past him L luck Jelen Bronsson Uh Well, we will be coming to you next time after game one. We'll be recording Wednesday night. so look for that in your feeds late Wednesday, early Thursday morning From there. We'll wrap things up. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Jeff for filling in on production. We'll talk to you next time twenty one plus in present select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen plus imp present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem callall one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccPG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp dot org in Maryland. 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