Historical Context and Future Outlook

Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. 'Twas a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it Tonight, we feast An offer you can feast on. sell your car today on Carmana Pick up these Mify . I am Justin Varrier and joining me Rob Mahoney, J Kyle man, Kyle doing kind of like the evolutionary Rob Lowe with the Nick hat, the spur shirt Love it. You're in the spirit. J I'm just committed to the finals. I just love all my children equally, you know, loveve them all Well, I love this game U more than probably any of the game in the playoffs in recent history, holy shit. like I'm still kind of coming down from this one, Rob Yeah, My first reaction, Wow, my second reaction. what? My my third reaction really? L this is how it's going to happen of all things. Victor Wominyama throwing an off of Stefon cast is back in a critical moment. I mean, I'm just reminded that If you are a young player on this kind of stage If you're lucky enough to get to the finals I mean, the lessons are excruciating whenever they come. And this is this is one that's going to be living with Victor Wiminyama and Stefan Castle, I think, for a very long time. That's going to live on. Yeah. That's one of those ones when it happened. I you said you were doing the what? and I was I did a lot I did a few Ohh no's when Champanney that timely foul. I was like, Oh, brother, what are you doing? And then yeah, that that hurt. You could just see it on Windby's face that he wanted to like come unraveled. I mean emotional guy. That's that's a play that's u I feel like we're going to remember about him in some capacity going forward. We'll see we'll see what the income, the outcome is Especially after he like looks distraught, the camera pans to one of the nuns in the crowd. And so I was already like, man, this is kind of like a mess, like a second half of a Scorsese movie. now we've just got the whole experience here. And so just got got God factoring in. it was a real real cinematic situation, I would say. Yeah, but it was like mid period super religious scors. likeike this is bringing out the dead. You know, We're somewhere in like the driving all night at an ambulance and everybody is ragged, E everyone is haagggard ut to the nuns, just at your lowest possible moment. What could be more painful than that? Let's say thirty days of night was that movie where the vampire cruelly says, No God. That's what I was gonna No. That's go on. All right, why don't we take a quick break just to sort things out here? We'll come back, talk through all the action games This episode of the Ringer NBA Show is presented by Ferrero The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kibbler Chips deelue cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrear Roche squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. buy any two for Rrero brands and you could win one million dollars official rules apply. Learn more at go all inandwin. com. All right. mean We took a little break. I don't know if I've fully caught my breath here, but just trying to sort through all of this. I kind of like what Town said in the walk offff interview Rob, where like things got super messy and we could really just dig through every like nook and cranny of all the mess there toward the end there. But he was like, we built that lead to provide the cushion and it did prove enough. And so I'm kind of caught in between where it's like the Nicks at time look so sharp, like so dialed in. almost dare I say like Past Spurs teams with the ball movement and the execution U But like time to stretch, they just had enough in that chaotic situation to just buull it Yeah, I mean if you want to tug at the string to see who unraveled whenin It was a great game in which both teams were kind of trading off that sort of responsibility with each other. You know, they both had incredible runs. The Spurs had this great fourteen zer closing kick to give themselves a chance to win the game in the first place But you're right, by and large, if you want to zoom out and look at the game as a whole I thought this was just an incredible payoff for everything the Kicks have done to get to this point in terms of figuring out all these varied ways to get into their offense. We saw Jalen Brunson doubled. We saw him trapped. We saw him full court press. We saw a decent amount of switching as well. And yet it was just like there was always a way in. There was always an avenue whether that was, you know, going to Cat in the high post or at the top of the floor to make plays. whether it was Mchaill Bridges brring the ball up or being a pressure release. Landry Shammot flashing to the middle of the floor and being more than just a shooter, although he certainly sh like shot the shit out of the ball as well. They just had answers for all of that stuff. And I think yeah, you're building yourself a cushion so that if you do have a couple of minutes where you go completely scoreless That's fine too Because even when they are scoreless, I'm just finding this next team to be totally fearless. Like they they still have an OGN an OB drive bump Dunk over Wimy in them basically anytime they really need it Yeah, the the sort of daunted kind of looking for him stuff is not going on as much. You can you can see that they they really were, you know, the Spurs were trying to funnel those drives to the baseline and kind of stay on top U I guess to prevent further ball reversal, whatever the reason was, but the Kicks repeatedly were ready for that. They looked even on the ones that weren't successful, whether it was Albarado or whoever, but I think what we're seeing is maturity You know, these guys have been through the wars together, obbviously,' been through some pretty rough heartbreak together But I think that is kind of manifesting on the court in the basketball sense where This team and we were talking about this, John Schuman wrote a really awesome thing about how competent this team is late clock And I think you see that just repeatedly, and I was thinking about that a lot during this game where The Kicks just have their wits about them in the second half of the shockock in a way where other teams like throughout the playoffs that we have seen, you know, Wimy basically, you know, snaps the I've got twenty eight years later on is he like an alpha snaps the spine out of your out of the first action of your offense is what typically sends your offense into rotation, you know, and things like that. And Wimby takes that away. He's just like, that's not even going to happen. The Nicks are just acutely set up to be like, We're fine with that because we are so good. and whether that's Brunson, you know, creating something out of nothing or we're seeing role players just step up and you know shham it's on a freaking heater. like you were saying. I mean, he made huge shots, you know, brridges time and time again made daggers. But I think that's one of the big things is just they are so steady. They don't panic in a way that a lot of other teams do. I mean, what we're talking about is precision and the spurs for as great as they are. are not a super precise offensive team. You know Castle is still like a little bit wild even at some unfortunate moments Fox, you know, really stepped up and had some of those great stretches but also had lulls in the middle of this game. And Harper, I thought we saw some of the limitations when you're really asking him to create a lot or to initiate within the offense, that stuff wasn't going well for him. It was all the other stuff that kind of panned out And so you have this incredible contrast of this Ns team that has so many varied avenues and so many guys who feel like they keep their head on their shoulders as opposed to the sppurs who are a bit feaster famine right now when faced with this level of competition Yeah, it's funny because the Spurs want to play fast, but it almost felt like the Kicks allowed them to tucker themselves out and they just kind of won the tortoise battle at least in that first half where it's like the pressure at first was was really making an effect from the sppurs side of things on defense. And it just felt like slowly and steadily, especially in that second quarter where things just turned around. I think it was like a twelve point swing over there only had eighteen points in that second quarter where it was a lot of just ball movement and like waading through some of the initial pressure and just executing off of that. And then once that happened, if they didn't get the shot to go down and they were shooting the lights out, like the rebounding was there in part seemed like because everyone was scrambling from the ball movevingment and toown's effect on on things. And so like it was really just like dialed in. it's almost like It's like Spurs want to play fast, but the Nicks are like born to like live in that chaotic environment in the way that a younger still figuring the way outsort a team, especially Weemby with the Spurs, just like hasn't really caught up and married the two things yet. Yeah. I would say the sppurs didid enough to your point, Justin about like creating that sort of chaos with the pressure, with kind of jamming things up with making even the Knicks fly around and execute and execute and execute u we saw their limit as well. L One basket goes differently and we're talking about all of these elements of the game in a completely different light, right? Th then the press is the thing that won them the game. then the traps are the thing that won them the game. And so I don't want to like over index or swing too hard on any one of those decisions because They got the spurs where they needed to be There were just like a few too many costly mistakes. and I want to say that on the opposite end for the Kicks as well, for as much as Jayen Brunson, P through the wringer in terms of all sorts of defensive coverage in this game to come out of it with only four turnovers, I think is like a minor miracle. Like bad down the stretch. He almost seemed like he spun himself off after kind of going toe to toe with Fox. Like some of it was the pressure, some of it just missed shots, but he really seemed off immediately after that confrontation. He was a little bit off But then the play that I think is going to get lost to history because of, you know, the sppurs turnover is that ridiculous Bruntson fadeaway that tied the game in the first place. So it's like he did have moments where he was a little bit off kilter as he is ought to do as the Kicks are ought to be, but He's been one of the best Crunchime performers all season and certainly has been in the playoffs and to deliver that in that kind of moment. There're just there's no putting a price on that. There's no way to barter your way out of it. Like you either have that stuff or you don't. And the spurs came up just a little bit short. I think what we're seeing is a crisis of I don't know what the right word for it would be, but a crisis of who are your creators, basically your legitimate creators because the Surs are being pressured in this situation where you're talking about, you know the N st thing steady. It's just Finding that next guy and we debated about like that next guy to step up and we debated about whether or not that's going to be Harper or that's going to be, you know, Fox or it's going to be Wimby. All those guys we're finding have these conditions around how they're effective that are playing a huge part this series. I think we saw in the fourth quarter, Fox just had this like kind of moment where he realized like, oh, I'm an all star creator. it didn't even seem like it was a super scheme thing. It was just like Fox just and I don't know if that I was watching the feed where you could see them during timeouts and I was just really during the playoffs, it's really fascinating to watch the benches how they react. And the spurs, you know, that one they talked about on the broadcast, Wimby was really ripping into some like he was he was getting on them. and I wonder Part of that was Fox, like be more assertive because he seemed unsure of himself where to be assertive. We saw in game one. he'd get in the middle of the lane and I've said it, you know, the three forty five with bridges, the length and the strength and then Ojie and Kat. He's looked a little unsure in a way that he has it in the past getting into that little like ten footer He was a little more aggressive, but then You know, you're see Windy having a hard time getting into his spots. and then Harper who just almost at times feels like a punt returner that they want to get more involved in the offense. That's' saying. It's like we just we have this like electric talent. It's like how do we like build our offense around this thing? And it's like they're still figuring those things out. They came close. I don't know if that fox momentum will continue. Yeah, we should talk about that kind of lineup they ultimately defaulted to down the stretch. Part of it was Castle had early foul trouble and then he kind of stepped on somebody, but also seemed like they just didn't put them back in because they liked the combination that they had. I think you're right, like Harper was giving them a lot just by running out and executing on some of those leakouts or turnovers, whatever it is. gave them that extra pop that I think they needed. like Rob, do you think that like that's something I don't want to get too far down the road here, but like that closing lineup is something that maybe they could turn to a little bit more because it seemed like at the very least, they were their most dangerous there as opposed to with Castle It's tough because they do need Castle's defense, right? Like he does Especially if you're going to end up switching as they kind of fell into doing down the stretch. like they were trying to trap Jalen Brunson a little bit less to stay out of rotation Castle's one of those guys who helps you fight through switches and not just give them up so easily. And Harper can do some of that too, Fox, maybe to a lesser degree, but like you really benefit from his physicality and from what he can helping bring to that dynamic of the series and these critical stretches. So like you don't want to bail on that kind of defensive importance so quickly But at the same time, I mean, we talked about this coming out of game one with Harper two, right? that what he gives you in terms of the full court game is so vital. And I think the play in which in the last couple minutes He catches a long rebound, sprints out in transition and then like hard stops in the paint when he realizes it's like one on three and finds Wen bet trailing for an An one that turned out to be a critical part of the spurs comeback. That's the kind of thing where you don't expect a player his age to make that play. You expect them to try to power through and it's going to be a make or a miss I think his discretion and his poise have earned him continued time, continued opportunity. You just have to find ways to keep him on the floor. And if that involves putting all three guards on the floor, I'm open to that. And I think all three of these guys have shown There's such competitive rebounders Castle Fox and Vaslla is in this category too, and Harper. They weren't They weren't competitive enough for me tonight though. I know Harper a lot a lot of times tonight, I was like I was like, you are you leaving money on the table. I know that the rebound numberbers That' f that they're even, but I feel like they could gang rebound even better. I feel like some of the most critical moments of the game where sppurs got a little bit the they're turning the motor. I don't know if you guys have ever like done like a crank start. you get it turned around a little bit and then it's like boom. like it just died. Like I felt like they couldn't quite get it going a few different times because of that. Well I think there's a compelling argument in that too for exactly the sort of lost in the sauce rebounding battle that Justin alluded to too, where the spurs are flying around the floor trying to deal with all this pressure that they are creating to tryp Brunson in the first place. And then the Kicks were coming up with all sorts of offensive rebounds because they were just falling in the gaps Well, this is kind of the battleground we expected going into this series, right? whereere it's like the sppurs they closed this way, that last final possion where it's those three guards plus Fll whether you want to categize them as a guard or wing, whatever you want to say, plus Weny. Like that is their most dangerous lineup. But you look across the way and like The Kicks, they look like they're pretty much all bigger than those guys outside of Brunson. And so like there are stretches where OG just like he's just so fucking massive compared to them. And when he gets it going, he just has like a certain advantage. They even played down a stretch. I think it was in the third quarter where they went without four of their starters and kind of allowed brridges to kind of just play through him And it was such a balsy move to begin with and it really just showed the trust I think Brown has in just like how well things are going. D didnn't work down the stretch because when you need to turn to bridges, I don't think he really acquitted himself all that well. But like they can get away with stretches of Mitchell Robinson Bridges as your de facto front court because of that size disparity. And like it showed up in the rebounding. and I just think like You get enough of those sets where it's like you could really lean on that advantage like that's a pretty big swing when every margin it feels like in either game and I imagine going forward is going to be pretty slim I thought bridges during that third quarter stretch with no toowns and no Brownson was unbelievable. lights out. He made harry Jumper. lightights out like tough mid range toos hit that incredible like curl lob to Mitchell Robinson for a dunk. But in the end, Town sat almost eight minutes during that stretch because he was in foul trouble and then ended up sitting a little bit start the fourth quarter. Brunson sat over five minutes during that stretch I mean, that's godsend rest in the NBA finals to get your stars that kind of time off the floor and you're building the lead in the process. You're going from I think when those guys came into the game want to say that the next one up maybe four points. the Squurrs were kind of roaring back and then all of a sudden, you've got to back in double digits because of Miguel Bridges, because of Duce McBride, because you know, you're getting like a nice punch from Jose Alvarado here and there. It's like Yet another huge moment for the Nick bench and for Mikuel Bridges both And they really delivered in a way that I'm not sure that some of the supporting spurs ever did It's been interesting because Brunson has had two pretty inefficient games in a row and yet I think you're seeing the Nicks that use sort of the presence of the threat of him scoring in his gravity like really, really well, even though he has had some pretty If you don't play, I don't know if you necessarily need to play basketball to understand how I think they even kind of reference this on the broadcast, but it seemed ordinary when Brunson was on transition and he had somebody on his back and he had Harper flying in and he decelerated at the rim and just shot it He just put the perfect arc. You don't know the play I'm talking about. he had like ideas around him. and he just shot this perfect floater. That was an insanely difficult shot that he hit. likeike the stuff that he's able to do with his balance and the space that he has, I'm just routinely just blown away even though, but I feel like I mean, we gott to talk about Carl. I mean, like yeah, do do we need a do you want to go yeah, let's go This is the cat music here because he's just been unbelievable. Definitely faded down the stretch. obbviously got the fourth foul went out and then everything just was a mess toward the end there. But like that first half was Carl Anthony Towns' like haall of fame resume basically. And it's not just like that he's affective. because he's had stretches like that in playoff pass with the Wolves in particular. It's like a lot of the shooting providing the de difference or like'll just have a big defensive game against a much bigger opponent Um just like not Not only how like efficient and effective he is, Rob, it's like how dialed in he is and how like it seems like he's just reading the game and making the right play every time, which seems like such a simple thing. But with him, it's never the simple thing. that's actually everything with him because you just can't count on him to make a stupid foul or just like just force shots up when he doesn't do it and it's just like Something happened to him going into this postseason or maybe Mike Brown finally spoke to him where he's just like, man, he just like so streamlined and you get the player everyone expected or hoped for his entire career. I think it has to be more than Mike Brown talking to him. he had an existential crisis. He had a moment of clarity. nuns too. Maybe he spoke to the right spiritual leader of whatever kind and it just abolute something clicked into place for Carl Iaska, maybe. I don't know you know There are many strange trips people can go on to find clarity whatever works for Kat, I want a piece of that. I want to understand how to reach that level of enlightenment because the much from Widows Bay. I mean, what are we are we are we on what's the what's the palace that you lay in on the mattress? What's it called I'm not ready to go to that one unfortunately. Any black mold or bl black mushroom related. I'm I'm going to steer clear from. But The combination of that decision making that you're talking about JV from Cat where he is he is that dialed in, he is that precise. And then he's also, he was a critical part of the defensive matchup that was holding down Victor Webonyama for a significant portion of this game. I would say over the course of the first two games. Kat has just flat out outpled Weemby in six of the eight quarters, probably to this point which is an incredible testament to all of that balance, to all of that decision making And I don't even know what to do with this anymore because this is supposed to be like kind of the one thing that once you reach a certain level of experience in your career, you kind of are who you are as a decision maker, right? You might refine a little bit, you might add a little bit, but you're not going to expect Someone like C Anthony Towns even a year ago to make this sort of leap in terms of his judgment. And yet here he is, his role was slifted shifted ever so slightly over the course of these playoffs into being more of a playmaker. and it just unlocked every good part of his game and somehow erased all of the wasteful or erroneous parts is this cat's dirk? playoffs Like, who is. Don't say that in front of R. You're gonna get really mad right now. That I mean, you're just talking about a one you're talking about a special run. We'll see if there's more didn't end up. I mean, you know, that that occurred to me during the game. I mean, he's not having like the crazy scoring like come, please come stop me. It's been a little different. but seems like l bottle thing for him. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is look, this is clearly a run and a series and if the Nicks certainly going to win the championship. they're up to fucking Oho in the NBA finals. It's crazy to say even still It's going to change a lot about how we talk about Kat about how we think about him historically as it should this is hes certainly earned that. The dirk thing is a little different because he was the lead offensive player on a team that went through the back to back Champion Lakers, Kobian Pow, that went through Doranta Westberg at Harden, that went through Lebron and Wade like. I didn't seeually my column, isn't that? is what you're saying? You know It's slightly different in terms of the offense of responsibility and also justust the Hall of fame wattage that that team that Mavs team ran through. I think I think in the in the map sense though, like if you look at the way if you look at the trajectory of their careers, it's like nitpicked peopleople love Dirk. I mean, you got the stretch four five thing going sure. But it was it was a lot of heartbreak, a lot of frustration like this this guy have it kind of thing Comparing the resumes of the competition, obviously those two things are very, very separate, but that's just kind of the template is seem me It just gets back to the whole thing with Towns' issue just seems so self inflicted and just seems so intrinsic to like who he is as a guy. Like he just seems a little goofy and like would get a little loose with it. and it doesn't seem like Dirk was just more like it just didn't work out for him. Obviously the soft thing kind of, I think got to him at a certain point. But we're at the point now where Towns is like hearing Jimmy out there. L there was the play where he wrapped the ball around Cornet W like basically going down was about to like put his foot down One hand passes all the way to the corner to where I think Bridges. I was like, what the fuck is that? That was an play. Yeah That was one of the best plays of his career. I wrote that in my notes. I couldn't believe he made that play. That was It wasn't just Cornet too. there were like four spurs there and he contorted and rarapped that passast and yeah, Michaail Bridges hit it, but Just the The opportunities that Carl Towns is creating and the way he is and we've praised his driving all throughout these playoffs and in these finals, especially, but That is a weapon that is straight up breaking the spurs at critical junctures of this series. His ability to put the ball on the floor to refuse to be guarded by smallalls in the post It is everything anyone has ever asked of Carl Towns, and he's delivering it on the biggest stage boss. This summer, Fan doo is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers. Uhh Fo? Y, headters. Every goal is worth more on fan dool. So let there be goals. N customers get three hundred fiftyteenion bonus bets guaranteed when you bet five dollars five for seven days. twenty one plus in presents and select states. firstirst online real money wager only minimum five dollar wager required for seven consecutive days, five dollars first depositquired Bonus issued does done withdrawable bonus bets, which expires seven days after receit rictions applly,ye terms f famamool d. com slash sportsbookard. Gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My resSet So real mixed bag from Victor Webinama tonight just seemed to be in a spin cycle early on here, probably in part due to the effect Towns was having on him. gotot it going in that third quarter. Obviously Towns was in foul trouble. just seemed like it broke through. He hit a three at that point and just seemed like things kind of just cascaded from there. justust seemed like he was just playing tight. All all of a sudden, he had a few shots things started direction. Overall, Rob, how do you feel about Wemy in this finals? This is a case where Perhaps he's a little lackluster at a point in his career where he's probably not ready to take the series by a thrat. This is just a bad match upp, like impeding like some of the smaller advantages he was getting against the Thunder. Overall, like what's your outlook on I would say first of all, defensively, because I think that's where we always start with WenB it feels like the Nicks have a different level of confidence executing against him and working around him than any previous Furs opponent. And yeah, the first half of game one, you could see a little bit deer caught in the headlights from some guys like Michaail Bridges and O Jananobi around Wemby around the rim. Since then Nobody seems too terrified to attack him. Nobody seems scared of that possibility or that prospect. like they're going at him. They're pulling him out on the perimeter. They have understood better than anybody else. if you pull Wemby out high enough, Landry Samot can beat him off the dribble. Like there's lots of opportunity for guys to attack him in different ways and the Nicks are finding the opportunity to do it offensively for Wimby. He's at this weird place where Like he needs to make himself consistently available in spots on the floor that are not just hovering outside the three point line and kind of waiting for a kickout But he also can't over compomplicate things when he gets it. And you can see him trying to walk this balance in real time of I am facing up Carl Towns or Mitchell Robinson Should I be trying to go like into a dribble package fade away? or should I just take this jumper over the top? It can feel like a concession to just take the jumper. but when the alternative is a couple of awkward dribbles and then a much harder shot. I think we saw him kind of benefit from simplifying things a little bit in the second half Yeah, definitely. And I think overall the Spurs were doing a pretty good job of like in the first half manufacturing using Wimby's gravity because I had a moment where I was like, I know I pairred in kind of what I said with Brunzs and but this is just kind of what you do with superstars you try to use use the attention that they get, but with Wimby, it's when he's just doesn't even have the ball And I thought there were a few times where I was like, man, is this if this could evolve, it could end up being like the inverse of of the Steh offense where Steh's gravity outside the arc is causing cutting and Wimy just going to the basket was was causing these close outs that you could tell that the spurs were in their recovery because if they're going to play like a recovery like and rotate kind of a thing. there are these opportunities to drive the ball and the Spurs were doing a pretty good job of it in the first half. but att some point though, it's just kind of like adjustments can be made and you need your stars to when they were down, I just had this thought where I was like, Wimy's going to have to transcend offensively. And I think, you know, maybe streamlining it finding simpler ways like you were talking about I kind of just, I'm trying to figure out how is it that you consistently go to Wimby and get passing out of the ways that he scores. It's weird that he's this dominant a player and we don't know that yet It's kind of crazy I did feel like he was a little ground down, especially in the first half of this game. I do wonder if the size and physicality of the bigs he's going up against regularly is starting to have like just a wearing effect on him because it's not just towns and towns, we should mention, like there was one play where he went at him, got around him and dunked on him I was like donon't remember the last time anyone got a dunk through Weemby this playoffs, let alone like in the past couple of months here. but it's not O OGi got him tonight too, you know O' right a couple of sickaking a bx. That's Those two moments were like very this is my third movie reference in One Pod but very matrix reloaded be had to be Very matrix What are you doing? Very Matrix reloaded when Camera zooms to Neo's hand and he's bleeding in the Merinci and says, you see he's just a man, you know? That's kind of those those two plays. I was just like, I don't those were eye opening moments. See that he's mortal. bigig deal Sout out to the Mer ofinian What the hell's going on Lots of people are going to get that reference, Justin. I hope so. Yeah. it was good. I applaud you guys. It was a famous ass movie. It's not like I'm picking French art house cinema from the sixties or something. We need to do more French new Wave on this pod French connection going here too. It was just big the whole game U Yeahah, but it's not just like some of those guys. I do feel like Mitch. Robinson had an effect on like My at a certain point. And it's funny because like when the hack is started and it started very early and it happened like I think like three possessions in a row or three like pretty quick possessions in that first quarter. I was like, oh no Because on top of sending Mitchell Robinson to the line with a broken hand basically, it also just like ground the game down. everythingvery slowed down. I was like, oh, this might be an effective way to steal minutes for Weemby while he sits because he basically missed like a couple minutes of game time, but I think it was like a twenty minute stretch where that was going on there. And so I was like, oh, this could be effective in spurts. Like obviously, you can't sacrifice those fouls. Cargter Bryant was doing a lot of it. and so like Maybe they can mix it in from time to time in order to do that. They went away from it pretty quickly. And as a result, like let me just constantly going against these big growing guys and it's just like thinking back to like some of the series before this, I don't think he's had to deal with this sort of physical toll, especially after coming off of the seven gamees series in the Western confonference and With all due credit He did put up twenty nine in this game on twenty one shots and in the end had an opp Yeah. had round back in. Yes. absolutely, absolutely found a way back into it. even then still had some issues. And if you're going to talk about like the collective toll of a game like this, and This was a ruthlessly physical game all around. tons of physicality, tons of holding, tons of pushing Uh Maybe even like a bit much at certain points, but Ultimately, this is the kind of level of competition that I think we want on a stage like this And then you get to the end and Wendby makes a critical mistake in terms of that late game turnover and also comes up a little bit short on the final shot. And so You can at least correlate these things. It's tough to draw the back line I' actually saying. but o, did it background well In that case I just wanted to make sure you My point is erased. It's irrelevant. but no, thank you It's kind of like that scene missed on the crucial. This is kind of like that scene in the life ofquad. P Gin Oh Coach Carter where you put in the wrong guy Somet. But regardless, you know, he didn't have it. he didn't have it in the end came up with Just a couple of mistakes late U, well, what else from this game? You want to talk about shamit It's so funny because every time he makes a big play And I'll just you' going to mention his face again Justin. No, I think he's a love one. Okay. Okay because he should be proud Um No, we did one of those little preview things going into it on the site. and I was like, Sham it's going to swing a game. He was like dialed in in the e finals or shoot the shit out of the ball. Obviously he's going to be a factor if Hart was going to play all that other stuff that we talked about in the past. But like consistently now across two games, he's been very important. I just keep thinking every time he makes a good play, he makes a few of them every game now I just think like this guy I believe they traded up for in the J League draft in some like chicany where like they already had it set up that he was going to join the J League team because they were over the cap after the toowns trade. But like essentially Rose from the second pick in the J League draft to what he's doing now, which is being like one of the first guys off the bench and a team that's just absolutely mowing down competition in the finals. like we haven't seen before like in history, practically. and a guy that if you w want a flashback even to last season, like couldn't even really get off the bench in a lot of games for the Tibbs version of the Kicks. and He's become a critical part of their structure, of their flow, of their decision making process as they're navigating their way around these Jailen Brntson traps If he were just a shooter, I think that would be really valuable to New York But the fact that he is an effort defender, that he is a guy who's like fighting for loose balls in a Josh Hart kind of way in a game where Josh Hart was burded by Foul Trouble the whole time. and he's helping them make plays and work around all this stuff while hitting shots. like You're transcending the role player package if you're doing all of that stuff at once. Lre you're performing at a level that's similar to a Michale Bridges, that's similar to a Dylan Harper, right? Like you' you're a role player plus at the bare minimum And he has just had a legendary run all throughout these playoffs in these last two rounds in particular. Yeah, he's he's always had pretty good he's always had pretty good baskball like you like he played some I always bring this up because I'm the college guy but he always he played some point guard at Wichita state. likeike he he can process on some good teams. It's just for him, it's the translation was like, okay, you're kind of a movement shooter now in the league. We're seeing this be interesting for Bennett Sturts, who's com in the league also. but he's like he's evolved defensively in a way where he's just not as easy to pick on. If you're going to make shots and play within a smart offense, you have a role Ged he's playing best basketball this life. They have so many guys that are just wild you know, they all drank the liquid luck. There we go. There's four movie Re say. It's on a heater, man. Yeah. So we kind of have been talking around the Nicks just like run here a little bit. So this is now their thirteenth straight wind of the playoffs, which is wild. The last time they lost was to that CJ McCollum Aana Hawks team april twenty third. I don't know if I' even planted my tomatoes at that point Rob, how many podcasts do you think you've done since then I think I have done more podcasts than your tomato Plantas born frruit. So you know of course I can more than I'm on. I'm just saying Tim, demarcation with your mers Listen They look great right now. I'm having some trouble with the basil. I think the sres are attacking. reallyally Actually, okay, I want to take a quick detour here. Please. because squirrels are just really going for my basil and they're starting to pick off some other stuff here. And so I put a bunch of plastic forks around it as a way to deter them. Yeah. Yeah, or at the very least like they run into it, they just go away and like perhaps haveave you tried literal razor blades? what's be the problem with that Chicken wire is is the next phase, but we'll get to that. U unfortunately I didn't have enough forks And also if you' like if you touch a plastic fork it's not very sporty And so I woke up the next morning and they'd done more damn than ever before All right, Justin, what's your game three adjustment with theirls. I just I just like the idea that these squirrels are going straight for the basil. These discerning palate ass squirrels like making a Cise salad out there. What's happening breaking out the A the wine coolers and R just going to town? Why not? just I like the idea of attacking Justin's basil as a nice sort of turn of phrase that we can bring back at some point. But at what point Should we stop calling it the playoffs and just call it like Justin's plant Maters? likeike where do we we should set this up with your garden. I think there's stuff we can mine here or till or whatever you want to Yeah there it is. Literally any time you want to take this detour I am ready. I mean, unless you want to just turn this into its own separate patreon and I was actually like I was thinking of ways to like just spin this off and then I Hey, if Z Gelf I'll end here, but if Zach Gelf and Akis can do this for Netflix, why shouldn't I? That's all I'm saying Many people are wondering Somewhere out there's a Chevy truck F first N dries it That's a Chevby person Probably no one. Your buddy, your sister. ones who always show up. the first to rise, the last to leave They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too Cherolet, togetherether let's drive. Visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup Let's talk about Pay Roni's disease, or PD It's now widely talked about and some men may feel reluctant to bring it up But it's more common than you'd think PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve or the bump during an erection that for some men, may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health A trusted Uurology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment Visit talkaboutpD. com So the Nicks are playing well, thirteenth strath whenin april twenty third last loss. They're also now the third team. An MBA history roob to win the first two games on the road, The other two teams, the ninety three Chicago Bowls, the ninety five Houston Rockets So if We're not trying to get ahead of ourselves around here, but I'm just gonna to put it out in the air now that there is a possibility in a week or two, that we are having a discussion about How historically dominant are the Kicks? Are they one of the all time Are they on one of the all time dominant runs all the way to the championship You need games like this to get there, right? It's not always going to be double digits. It's not always going to be sweeping people The Surs are going to have a lot to say in the rest of this series. But I think it The fact that the Kicks have been able to string together some wins like this one or pull out just like enough Luck, plus bench stretches plus superstar play plus championship team construction stuff in addition to blowing the doors off of some lesser competition in the earlier rounds. That's the resume of an all time great team I don't know any other way to slice it. But then going into the playoffs, we weren't even sure that they would beat the hawks. I know. We're down to one to this team I just I just don't get like how the flips kind of switched here And I've been thinking through this a lot, especially and I think we're going to have to talk about this a lot if they do end up winning and going back to MSG, which is probably worth like what? five points That fucking crowd is going to be electric and it was already going to be tough to play and now you're going there too well. side tangent here. D you guys catch Fat Joe at a certain point behind the basket? Just look Look at a little Amebrian. He was like trying to distract Wy. He wasn't actually trying to distract Wimbie. He actually was so drunk, he was like seeing things and he was swatting at them. That's what was going on. Yeah I mean, we're going we're going to be talking about this probably a good amount here. I think it's just like a combination of things. Obviously the offensive adjustments that they made, Cat being dialed in, the competition being a little lesser going too this point in the east Also the fact that like they're healthier and like that just matters so much more. I know that's not a sexy podcasting topic, but like something we all need to reconcile that like health matters just so much considering what a got one of the regular season is and just like how much torque on the bodies happening with space. Even in this game, like Castle kind of tweaked his knee at a certain point, Fox came up limping down the stretch, Dylan Harper seemed to turn ankles.s like just getting out of one of these games without somebody getting hurt. We saw in a game one with Jayalen Brunson You're just trying to get through these games relatively unscathed. And the fact that they've gotten through an entire run with most of their bodies and core intact knock on every piece of wood imaginable. That is what it takes. You do need those kinds of breaks in addition to everything else Yeah, I've wondered like coming, you know, talking about like the comparing it cat to the dirk thing. it kind of makes you wonder like looking forward because people always do this shit with with titles. They always if there's unless it's just a dominant like shhack Kobe like they steamroll everybody peopleople love to put conditions or caveats and be like, well, well, you know, like like with the nuggets, for instance There's been a lot of talk about like, you know, there was health during that those playoffs. people love try to bring those up like certain rings matter more than others. I could see people doing that, but this speaking get Justin. just let's just get it I Justin. Well just the This guy, come on Just just a . Is this one of your heels I would' say it's a hill, but, you know, I think I think People have done the studies and it was one of the easiest paths to All right.. I'm walking into the Yokach just weird shit. I'm sorry, I didn't It's going to be my mark me. Yeah walked right into that. Justin setting another trap for this and I fell for it unlike the squirrels. But no I think there's the there's that going on with it. I could I'm just I'm not saying this is what I think. I'm just saying I project predict that people would be like, well, you know, these people weren't healthy. They're so dominant, man. And I think another thing here that's that's going to You really could kind of feel the earth move under your feet a little bit in how we were thinking about these playoffs in that second quarter where it was like you saw You know, the spurs come out through the strong start. They've schemed this thing that's going to work and the Nicks were they make one adjustment and it kind of goes away. You start seeing the Spurs guards drive into dead ends and they have nowhere to go because the Nicks are playing the gap so well and they're so they're so smart defensively. And then you start seeing your phone ding. I don't know if this is kind of the way it went for you guys where you could just feel people just be like this might be a sweep. L this is this is not kind of what we thought it's going to be like. The only thing that gave me an inkling of like maybe the Spurs will swing back is Wimby exerting himself a little bit more off offensively and having a big game, but The fact that Fox granted Fox came up Gimpy and that was sort of took the wind of the sales there where he just kind of had that moment where he realized who he was and started attacking. That gave me a little bit of pause where I was like maybe this spurds will come like fight back But I'm not feeling optimistic about it. and it's an interesting shift that's happened for me. I don't know if you'all feel that way Absolutely Yeah, it's interesting. I don't want to draw too many conclusions yet because obviously we still have a lot of finals to go here. But obviously I think this is the thir of time where you're like saying like what happened with the next? like what changed between the end of the regular season going into this. And it's just like, I look back to that Pacers team and maybe like things are just set up So that a team that's healthy at the right time, that's deep enough at the right time and just executing at a high level. like that just matters more than it did in the past when it felt like so much was just best player wins the series that the superstar dictates a lot of that Um, and it's like it almost feels almost too obvious because obviously a team that's executing a high level is going to play well and thus go far But it feels like that that matters a little bit more And like I think the depth of talent probably contributes to that a little bit. Obviously, the pacers had that in space. And if you look across the Nick, the fact that therere have the bench engaged in ways that Tibbs probably waited too long, waited until the playoffs in order to try to dudge some of these guys up that matters too A lot of times I'm like flashing back to like I said I brought up the spurs of previous vintures before, but like they do are reminiscent of that. just the way that the ball pings and they're finding good offens that way. If you really want to make the comp work like there's some comparisons to like everyone assumed that this would be Wembe's moment in the same way people thought that it would be the Heats moment back in the day, obbviously that was the maps and the spurs, but like That's the counter. I mean, the age difference is there and everything else, but like, I don't know. just it just feels like this team is time, right place and everything going well. and maybe that's just what things this is the way this happens, Rob in the playoffs now where it's more about timing than it is about just a complete to ticket like end run to end run sort of dominance that we're used to. Well, think about even the components that are making that ball movement and that team play possible Jayalen Brunson is an amazing player I haven't heard a single argument or claim that he's like in the running for the best player in the world conversation. Even if the next win, I don't think we're going to hear that chatter. It's going to be he's an amazing leag guard. He's an unbelievable clutch score. all of the positive attributes in terms of his creation and body control without question But he's not LeBron James, right? Like he's not Nicole Yokich or Janna Santa Dumpo. He's a different kind of lead creating all of this action around him by playing out of pressure like he did tonight. And then you've got Carl Towns, who' completely rewired his brain seemingly and become the sort of decision maker we were just praising. OG and Aobi, who at previous points in his career was criticized for being like a little bit too much of a straight line player and not a lateral thinker in terms of the way that he navigates the floor or someone who had pushed for his own offense too much at inoportune times We're not really seeing any of that in either direction Miuel Bridges, who earlier this season looked like he might have fallen off the face of the earth completely and be lost to a team like the Kicks has rebounded to become an essential part of their system. Mitchell Robinson I mean, even as recently as the beginning of this season, we weren't sure if he was ever going to be healthy enough to be a reliable piece for them, like on a season to season year over year basis. And they just fold all these guys in. The ball is pinging between them, perfectly balanced, perfectly calibrated It just wasn't that way all throughout the regular season. And I say this is all a tremendous compliment to what the Kicks have built and what they have put together. like A great championship season should feel like a process. You should not be the same team in November that you are in June. You should see growth. you should see change. And we've seen so much transformation from the Ns that it is it's frankly dizzying. It's an interesting time, you know, talking to what you're saying speaking to what you were saying, Justin about, you know, typically we have these you know, superstars are the center of the solar system of a team and there and everything kind of the N orbits around that. It's like, well, I would say also, you know In the East they a lot of them were healthy, you know, and beat is a shell themselves to hate's out, things like that. But that this there are other ways to kind of speaking to what you're saying about like timimes being different now, like how teams are set up, how the schedule plays out There's another way to build a team, which is if you have, you know, all stars who aren't necessarily at that like top five MVP caliber level, you can balance that if guys understand who they are and this includes the stars that they're not over pursuing it like Kat would in the past. He said this calibration of how he plays. I think Brunson has adjusted too to some of that. But then Rob speaking what you you're saying too, they have elite role players So I think figuring out that balance, I think is part of what has made this click into place and become this crazy machine. It's just because like Brunson's not forcing it in a harmful way. Kats not forcing it in a harmful way. You look at his line. He's been scoring in the twenties and yet he had a gigantic impact on the game and then letting these elite role players have people have brought up the pistons. It kind of it's those types of teams, the pistons that Mavs team, even though Dirk was dominant,'s it's that kind of That kind of set upp, it's fun to watch. Honestly, that might be the cat comp is not the Dirk run. It's Rashid Wallace to the pistons. And then all of a sudden he's like, you know, not a full good citizen. like there's still some of the old sheid in there Everything is being channeled in such a positive direction by the culture, by the flow, by his place within it Maybe that is the kind of comparison. Mike Rrown Jhnson Mike Brown deserves a lot of credit for this with How I tell It's such a crazy journey he's been on to because he bursts ono the scene just leading those cabs teams and all of a sudden was this type of coach the defensive minded like basically built the foundation for LeBron's defense and he should have won defensive player the year at least once and then obviously Heed a lot of his career from there, but then like kind of went in the wilderness with some of these like weird teams and kind of got spat out as some sort of like Steve Kerr disciple where he really is like a ball fine energy speak to like the like more like kind, gentle nature of people and the more like just like I don't know, more free flowing as opposed to got soft and woke Is that what you're saying I think a little bit, yeah That's what happens when you go out into the bay. It's crazy that like he it really just speaks to like perhaps like the journey of certain coaches like we think about this with players going to different spots and becoming different things. Like he really is completely different there. And like it seems like he's speaking to them in the sort of way they needed to And like he wasn't their first choice in New York because obviously they they kick the tires on like seven different active head coaches with actual jobs And fact it seemed like he just was the right voice in order to bring this about Well we've talked about that with the N players too, about just kind of being there at the right stage in your career where you've accumulated enough disappointment and enough experience and it just all kind of cresting into something that is singular and of its moment I think that's the case with Mike Brown too, for all the reasons you' just described at this point has overseen I mean, one of the most explosive offensive seasons ever in Golden State while Steve Kerr was kind of sidelined with some health related issues. an incredible turnaround in Sacramento in terms of piecing their offense into something functional and playoff worthy. absolutely remodeling everything that the Kicks were without giving up the heart of what the team was still trying to be. L this still feels weirdly enough like a grided out tough tibs team is just one that has the offensive playbook to supplement it and to play out an entire series that doesn't feel like it is running straight into the wall over and over and over. but has all this facility to it. It like The fact that the Kicks of all teams have just turned into a club with such a deaf touch in terms of their execution is a dramatic improvement. and there's simply no one else to credit that to other than Mike Brown and the effect he's had on unlocking towns in the way he's had and channeling Brunson into even more effective ends. like He He has come up with everything that has made this version of the Kick so formidable On the flip side of things, You're miss Johns preparing for a raucous environment at MSG game three Do you guys see anything other than things that we talked about that might help a little bit more here manan, it's tough. This this really is the kind of series where it's just like Can we really not play Victor Webinyama forty eight minutes? Can we like you just want to start shaving and you can't because you gota buy these these guys rest somewhere. but Again, they they were right there. I'm I'm going to focus if I am Mitch Johnson on How do how do you get to second half and third quarter wheny earlier and more consistently overall. And I think a big part of that is Wh Wimby is setting up shop, where you're trying to set him up on the floor. Some of it to be fair is the shots that he is willing to take. I think the other backbreaking one that if I were Victor Webonyambo would be haunting my nightmares tonight is he was on the block with Mcuel Bridges on his b. now the one you're talking about. Yeah. They couldn't get him the ball in a timely or easy manner and he ended up taking a step back corner three instead of a like a post up against Mcule Bridges I thought I want to talk about the one where he had he haduce McBride and Fox threw it off the backboard That was now brutal. But come on Both suffer from the same problem, which is Every entry pass in the series is contested. Everyone is difficult on both ends, challenged on the ball, physical with Wimby in the post or wherever he is on the floor. I'm not saying these things should be easy, but the Spurs guards have to figure it out. Like they have to be a little bit more precise in terms of how they're locating the biggest freaking guy on the floor and getting him the ball to post up Duce McBride On the other side of this, I thought that the Kicks got a pretty shitty whistle. That's what. Yeah. The only guys who got called for fouls were Kat and Josh Hart somehow. I don't know what happened Oji went to the line late. I think in the fourth quarter that challenge was like Yeah, the challenge was the first time they had had free throws in that second half, which was wild. The tech on Mitchell Robinson when they were just shoving each other down below which was kind of bullshit. That was also like I don't know I could see things flipping pretty quickly for the spurs. I don't want to bury them just yet. Obviously they have a lot of things going for them, but like I would say at this point, a sweep seems like the most likely scenario. I don't know if it's going to happen. Damn. twowo games at MSG I don't know that a sweep in the finals is ever the most likely scenario. Even if it's three zer, it's like you still think at some point a team as good as the sppurs will pull one out Again, we've talk we've mention it so many times tonight. they damn near pulled this one out. O, one mistake And really it is the double whammy of the turnover that then forces them to foul not forces, but leads to them fouling Jayen Brunson immediately and giving up a tie game into a deficit That's the backbreaker of all backbreakers. so it's like One different play and this game in this series feel completely they are changed irrevocably. but Here we are in a world where the Ns are up to O Clearly they have a strongghold on this series. It would be crazy to say they are not heavily favored to win at this point. but I think I feel like a respectful gentleman's like five game series is probably the most likely outcome. and from there, all things are possible I'd kind of convinced myself or just been led to believe that You know, we talk about superstars, it takes time, you know, you kind of have to even the best ones we've had. it takes LeBron had the one in zero seven where he got there a little early, obviously and got destroyed. but it's starting to kind of feel more like that, honestly where I'd kind of talk myself out of that Wimby was going to be sort of a historical anomaly and that he wasn't going to have to go through these trials that they typically have to go through, which we've seen in LeBron, MJ all the best ones do. I mean, Kareem's really the only guy who that came in and immediately w one that won a title. Vy different times, but It's kind of starting to feel more like a like a like a vision quest kind of event for for these young Surs players where it's like this is going to be a thing that they learn from because The youth really has shown in ways in this series already in these first two games Nmot saying it didn't show in the past, but these this Nick team is just ready to exploit some of the things that they they struggle in and they even the Thunder weren't ready to interestingly enough. So when we do winners and losers of the finals, winner Joseph Campbell What do we think Well winner Michael Jordan because Weeny can never be better than that. Apparently, you know. Lost one finals. That ship has sailed Well mayale M sell Wh don't we wrap it there? We're off for game three, so we'll be back to you at game four, which I believe is Wednesday night. Wednesday? That sounds right. If not, who cares Um Thanks to Ben Cruz. Thanks to Jeff for filling in on production. We'll be back next week for Game four. We'll talk to you then