Eastern Conference Playoff Predictions

Hello and welcome to Group Shat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, J Kyle man, Kyle who hasn't left that couch for multiple hours. We flipped on the Zoom and he was just there straight to camera talking about Henry Visard. Yeah, man. That's the thing about you know, parenthood don't stop. yesterday was my son's sixth birthday Ohong the that is a draft It was it was like it was like a sitcom where I'm like running around to different parties and just making everybody unhappy with with So anyway, no, it was good. So But yeah We finish at what two hundred thirty in the morning and then up at seven hundred thirty to take him to camp and we're just we're going, man. You know, we're asking who has a hard out. I said, I might just pass out. I might just hard pass out at some point, but This episode is brought to you by the Active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in Earn unlimited two percent cash rewards on purchases with it big or small So whether it's buying tickets to the game or grabbing a coffee it earns unlimited two percent cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo Be it two percenter Learn more at Wellsfargo d. com forward slash active cash terms apply I think there's a decent chance you die doing what you love, which is doing draft breakdowns on this podcast. Again, like I would think at this point, you have written blurbs, rewritten blurbs, mocked and remocked, potted with us and Bill and other parties several times through these players Is there a single like non top three guy who you think you have talked about or brought up the most more than anyone else in this draft Oh dear God. No, I think what keeps coming up is guys that I've had lower. peopleeople keep going like, what about that? and asking me about Chris Sanak and Creem Lopez. so I've kind of just kind of walk those circles a whole lot and acquaintance. There's guys we can get into, but U man, I'm just loopy honestly right now. I do do you all like talk to yourselves around the house or just do like stuff like that when you're when you're like I' beenfortunate a byproduct of working from home too much and also having just podcasts in your ears all the time. just I think I've just become a bumbling old fool at this point. Oh yeah. Well, especially if you have a pet. if you have a dog, then you can project your inner thoughts outward and it doesn't seem as insane, but obviously it's insane. This is some sad shit. I gott to be honest. This is who we are. I don't know what to tell you I was like singing songs. I did like a prolong just I was just singing a song as I was changing clothes. and I was like, dude, you are in outer space right now. I was like, you are just out there. My favorite part of the draft, I think was when we were really in the thick of things, Kyle' just banging out blurbs and then Rob is out there just like trying to get off his like cutesy text about like Derry A cuff. L it was really like Rob like, o, this is fun and exciting. I know this guy and then it's like cut to Kyle just like draped in blood like he's the DMX album cover. orr it's the guy sitting next to Jesus I basically ye I didn't even see that text. I was just so in the zone. So wow, whatever cute text you made I gave it the old Marsh on Lynch arm bar. It's I didn't even see it. sorry, buddy. You want to write it off now? No, I'll let you give you a chance. I won't and I won't be ressending it. In fact, I'm going to unsend it for chance so you never get you never get to see my bitits Must not havein it cute. Really? Yeah, that's true All right, we're going to get to a lot of stuff today. In the back half of the pod, we're going to talk some yannish trade ripple effects, go through all the next steps from the biggest trade thus far in the offseason. But first we got to talk about the draf. So we're going to go through some draft most intriguing outcomes. We'll do that right after the break This episode of the Ringer NBA Sh is presented by Ferrero. The world is watching. Go all in for your team this summer with Ferrero Ener for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling, or Kibbler Chips deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferrera Roche squares, with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold Go all in. buy any two forrerero brands and you could win one million dollars official rules apply. Learn more at go all inandwin. com All right, I'm going talk about a bunch of stuff here because surprisingly enough, this felt like the type of draftware Maybe the focus was on the top three, but I felt like there's a lot of interesting things happening throughout. Kyle, I have to imagine this is maybe a function of the draft being so deep or do you feel like maybe like certain teams were in certain situations that might have led to a lot of intrigue? But I don't know, just felt like this was a more robust offering from start to finish in the draft Uh, I don't know if robust. I mean, do you think you're saying like in terms of like transactions like there was a lot kind of moving anden No no transactions unfortunately. We didn't get literally any player trades. I thought within the draft. I mean, like ye big yeah Yeah, but maybe it's just a function of like being more plugged into it than usual, but I just felt like there were just more names and more intriguing fits going to the point where it's just like a team like the Spurs drafts a big two of them later in the draft. and like that felt like it had more major ripple effects than typical where it's just like, oh, the cavvess just got this guy who may or may not play Well, the depth, I think, the depth sort of begets the sort of thinking about the possibilities. And I think there's more of that than the nebulous like, you know, two years away from being two years away type stuff. Like there's a lot of guys There are a lot of just kind of quality role players, guys who project as quality role players starting after probably around the ten range. So I think the just pying this guy imagining those things was a little more realistic in this draft. Granted, we say that, we don't know for sure. We may come back and be like, wow, we were that's always the thing whenever we're doing grades. We're talking about is it that the draft was really good or was it just that it was consensus? So we're just sort of in our own sort of echo chamber of thinking that it's good and maybe it won't be Time's going to have to sort of inform those things as we go. Well, I think it does inform the decision making at least for now. whether it ends up being true or not. Teams are under the same impression. And I think you can tell some of that just by How few teams did end up trading out of even later first round picks for the sake of getting veteran help. I think there's enough hope that some of these guys can come in and play, if not immediately relatively soon. Well, I mean, one of those and I think the most intriguing situation coming out of this as certainly as we look toward next season is like what OKC did I just thought like how do they end up getting basically exactly what they need with their two picks? One, they actually took two guys who I think are going to be contributors for them. We thought they might not even be able to roster these guys before they dumped Aaron Reiggins before the draft. But when you think about it, it's like, well, we need a little bit more juice. Clearly, Jared McCain is someone that succeeded for us. We don't know the future long term with Isaiah Joe. And so like We'll have a succession plan for our succession plan for our succession plan, basically guard and they get Bennet's thirirdts. But getting a D Mara, Kyle, like it seems exactly what they need not only because Isaiah Hartenstein has one more year left on his current deal. We'll see if they bring him back. He's out a team option Sorber didn't play next year. So they could use a backup But if you look at like what their biggest obstacle is, it's Weemby who is a giant human and they just drafted with their first pick at twelve, another giant human who could potentially be like a guy that they just throw out there and like That's their counter to that. That felt like a really important pick, if not like maybe the most exciting pick Yeah, the point I was making in the grades is that, you know, OKC is obviously going to want to run this back and just like bring back who they were during their title run because as good as that series was and their spurs were great and they met the challenge in a lot of different ways. I think everybody watched that and kind of knew, you know, I know Fox was gimpy there nobody's perfect at that time of the year, but the but the Thunder were missing. I mean, arguably their like second offensive option. Chet really hasn't been he's clearly sort of I don't even know where he is in that conversation at this point has a lot to prove, but Jadob was out. And you know, Jadob was a dude who in the finals ascended and we were just like I remember the conversations we had about this where we were like Oh my goodness. This opens up so much at a high level for them. They didn't get to run that back. So not only I think do they want to go ahead and do that and be what they were before, adding Mara and we could talk about Bennett Sturts mayaybe I don't know if he'll impact that as much in the short term, but adding Mara gives them the depth. L we said, Wimby's unavoidable, you know, and I don't even know that it's so much that Mara's going to go out there and defend Wimby. I think he's just an obstacle because I personally think Wimby roast Mara in one on one situations because he's just so much quicker, so much bendier and things like that. That's not a super hot take. But I do think that Mara, if they do run it back, and they get similar to where they were He also has so much offensive skill in the half court that I think he adds another wrinkle for them which is a funny thing. for a team to be in of their k to It's a funny position for a team like them that has so many options and so many things coming back to be like Oh yeah, we added this other compartment that could also be a legitimate thing It's such a great developmental situation for, I mean, obviously anyone in any position, but especially for bigs to come into OKC. We were talking about a DMara and what would happen if you went to the wararriors earlier this week? That's like a pressure pack you have to play. You are one of the like few non Quintin post true bigigs on this roster. We need you to contribute something very specific If he ends up playing a significant role, a minor role, if he ends up not being a part of the rotation at all next season, I think all three of those would be acceptable outcomes. And in the meantime, there's such a clear roadmap between the bigs that OKC does have where you can see what Chet does defensively against the vast majority of the teams in the league and start to map what you bring as a Dim Mar onto what Chet does. And to what you're speaking about, Kyle offensively, like Isaiah Hartenstein's high post passing, short roll passing. It sounds like that's something that Mara could potentially expand for them too over time. So There's just like a great combination of all of the infrastructure you could want as a young big a lot of the cover that you need as a young player who's going to make mistakes and some really good guys to learn from in the process Yeah, it's just like it felt like a lot of the guys who seem like they could make an impact soon either because of where they are in their trajectory or because the role that they're going to fit. I just landed in very intriguing situations. I think Yaka Lndenborg is another one, obbviously going to the wararriors. He's just a big athlete who despite being twenty four, seems like he still has a lot to figure out. certainly, Kyle. I mean, you referenced this a bunch in your draft coverage, but it seems like just maybe emotionally or maturity wise U That to me feels like the exact sort of thing that the warriors need because I think you could mock them a bunch of other sort of players, but they need size, especially as Draymon kind of suns setets into a different phase of his career. Yeah But also because as we've seen so many times, like they're at their best with skill and just being able to move the ball and play their preferred cur style of offense, Lendenburg just seems to like split the baby in a way that I think will benefit them potentially as soon as next season Yeah, I think so. it's a funny thing where I think we referennce this to at one point that There's there's a hilarious contradictory thing of there's there are worries about his two biggest worries are his age and then his maturity. It's like that's really and maybe it's that those two things just kind of come together to create an even more exacerbated megazord of worry where you're just like, damn, if it was just one or the other, that'd be okay. But he adds a lot of things. I mean, he's going to add a spot up shooter I know he can do that stuff. I know he's a good connected passer. He's a really versatile defender. So I think the veteran kind of leadership of that team is going to create a nice kind of construct for him to fall into he's He's kind of in the like if you look at the like Christian Lineus, and't he the guy that did like the Kingdom falling class thing with the animal taxonomy? you know what I'm talking about? If you know's I'm talking about, I don't know who you're talking about I think it was Laneus. I believe you. You get that straight off the dome on like two hours sleep Kingdom Pylum class order family genus species Let's keep up. So if we're talking about if we're talking about where he is in the in the sort of taxonomy of forwards. He's kind of over here in like a Marcus Morris PJ Washington, but he has a little I don't know what you want to sprinkle in there to with the self creation stuff that he shows, but that's the type of player that he is. So Very very skilled, very dynamic, and I think the worries we willll get a lot out of him Can we circle back to Bennett Stirts for a second? Absolutely So so where in I mean, first of all, the fact that OKC, I believe gave up two seconds to move up to this spot to get their guy alwaysways of know to me One spot, right? Just one spot. So clearly they had some intel that he might be off the board or at least worried about it of note But where is he in the larger like Jared McCain, Isaiah Joe word cloud. Like what is it that he does potentially that those guys don't? or what is it that they do that he doesn't? Like how are these guys either redundant or kind of separated from each other? He's pace is the big thing that I would say. Jared just sort of like drowns you with get on it get off it, quick cut. like he's a little more frenetic a lot more energy to the way that he plays. Bennet is Bennett is like a slower for minute type guy. likeike he's methodical. He kind of gets to spots. he kills you with just micro transansactions and pick and roll. likeike he's he's just sets people lures them into his pace. He makes contact with the screen. He also the thing that I've mentioned on other shows elsewhere too is just that he probablyroably he carried one of the biggest pick and roll loads in college basketball for like the last four years. He also played an insane amount of minutes. He was always surrounded by guys that he was elevating in sort of helio kind of settings He's going to for the first time have a chance to show the thing that I think he'll give the most impact with, which is just his shooting. He's he is a great shooter. He's a really compact motion. He gets into his his motion really quickly. I think that that's going to be helpful to OK see prettyret early, pretty quickly. So I'm interested to see if These two picks, it kind of it makes me wonder about how those two picks affect the to pitch Granted, you know, Topa test things going on outside of his control. I don't know if he like heard his back skateboarding. I don't know the story there. so I may be wrong. But and then the Sorber thing. Sorber is a player that they had a lot of faith in. I'm like, are they Or we just trying to spin all these plates and None of them are really winners or losers. It's just we see what we get as we go Could be. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this a bunch, but certainly with Kaseason Wallace and some of his comments coming out of the like end of season press conferences, but like it's not just the disease of more that they're going to have to deal with. I think they're just going to have to deal with the fact that like there are so many good players on here and not all these guys are going to play to the point where you have to wonder if like, have they just already moved on from Sorber Sam Presty had a very S and Presty type comment about like the value that they have with picks and they they always want to just get the most out of those situations because they're so it press' resources for any franchise let alone a small market team that is going to go out and like swing in free agency. And I get all that. But I have to imagine certain guys feel a certain way. and Thomas Sorber who didn't get to play but was still drafted highly last year probably sees himself as a big part of this. I think Dan Woyki of the athletic had a good piece about him learning how to win from the bench as he was watching the thunder kind of unfold in front of him.s just like so so what? L maybe I have to fight for even backup minutes at this point. Maybe the Thunder have this all laid out, Rob. Obviously they think about these things to a level that like I find like super impressive. There's just a logistical acumen. And like maybe Hartstein goes and then all of a sudden it's Mara Uh and Sorber and maybe this is all for not. all this worry, but This seems like just like a real abundance problem that I've never seen a team have to really deal with. Yeah. I mean, they're the one roster. mayaybe in the entire league right now that feels like fully future proof in that way where yeah, they do have the contingencies on contingencies. They have the option of like, okay, if we do need to trade Isaiah Hardenstein, if we do want a trade or at least kick the tires on moving JW at a certain point, if we need to move Caysason Wallace, All of the backups are already installed. And so then you can be really like experimental in terms of what the returns are on some of those deals But also you just, I think you insulate yourself from a lot of problems. And that's something I was thinking about with this pick as well with Bennett Sturz. is like It didn't end up being a big deal in the playoffs because Isaiah Jees like didn't have a good run. Jared McCain, obviously had some incredible moments, But those two guys on the floor together actually were like a nice combination of the regular season. And so when you're thinking about what gets the Thunder through the first eighty two in a way where You know, hopefully JW is even healthier at the end of the season. Hopefully Shay can be even fresher at the end of the season Some of it comes down to just stringing together some of these lineups of guys who may technically be ninth or tenth or eleventh guys in the rotation, but all of a sudden you throw them out there together in certain combinations and they just work These are deeply competitive human beings at to the end of the day and they all think that like they should be at a certain level. Yeah. Like And this is just not even just like the NBA. This is like just like a human man proble woman in the world, right? Like you throw an open ESPN job out to a bunch of journalists and they will fucking shiv and stab all over the place just to get that, right? And So y'all should hear the things JV says before this pod starts about how he's the alpha of this podcast. and he's we need to sit down He told me he thinks he should be hosting the Bill Simmons podast. I heard that I thought that was Yeah. I thought that was a little rich. J. I just started making progress and you guys are going throw me under the bus here. All right, thanks. All right, Wh else we to talk about? Do you want to finish out the Michigan guys? I know they're like bigger like we didn't talk about the top three yet, we didn't talk about the guuard tier. We'll get to all that, But I found like this part of the draft Kyle was the most intriguing because like Things kind of took a curve when the Dallas Mavericks took more as Johnson. obbviously Dusty May our guy Dusty May is out there in Dallas and like Carly this this might have shown that like maybe he thought Morez was the best player on his team and maybe not Yaxel or even Mara That was insane. Sorry Callein, that's a c you upaake The idea dare you? Well, look We were just talking about how rare it is to get a coach a college coach in this kind of situation to begin with. then his team has a chance to draft one of his three favorite players and they have to go in front of the basketball world and pick favorites. I don't know that we've ever seen that before I don't, I think it must have been in place or he must have been at the top of their board before because it would be really stupid to hit yourself to a contract like that. And just because of a coach. I mean, I don't I don't see that. I mean, I think It's probably just a nice additive where it's like, okay and all it's a bonus that, okay, yeah, he knows Marez because Marez was coveted by it sure. But I was curious to flip it. he was He was on one of my like most intriguing list just because and I would flip this back to I guess you R as the Dallas guy or I don't know if you pay more attention to Dallas than other teams, but the thinking here. What do you think the I was curious about what because he he adds some things that, you know, they have PJ on the wat on the it's just, I don't I'm curious to see like I'm curious what the thought process was, what you think it might have been I think it's probably a level of insulation. I mean, my assumption would be that the hope is that he and Cooper are the forwards together long term and that this is another yet another to invoke the name again, kind of PJ Washington type flexible defender where they can move him around the board a little bit where he can take some of the assignments off of Cooper's shoulders so that he doesn't have to guard, you know, the best three reason in the league. if that's a viable thing that Marrz Johnson can do kind of on a regular basis. But I mean, I'm still trying to figure out who he is offensively. Like is he just going to be kind of a pick and roll finisher? Is there any more flourish to his game that you think can play off of? the versatility of someone like Flag. U somebody I don't know if I should say this on a podcast, but I'm going to. Somebody texted me, I won't say who that he's like SSRI beef stew basicallyesus Christ U All right Yeahah, he's he's a he's a calm human being but he also plays with It's a little more contained fury. like he's very aggressive. He's nasty around the basket, but his offense is kind of in that realm. it's like he tries to dunk everything great screener. But I think the defensive versatility U is you mentioned him guarding bigger threes. I think like bigger playmaking kind of forwards Merez is going to be a great weapon to have on your on your tool belt. U ye. So I thought a lot about the guys who are making the picks at this point. Messiah Jerry, what do we know about his player type? It's just literally six nine guys who have skill and are physical and like make an impact defensively. I thought it was funny that the Raptors, I want to get to this later. but the Raptors just kept doing that by getting Alan Graves later in the round. It's like, oh, we're turning the page and still trying to do this same thing that we've been trying to do for ten years that with Bobby Webster in place there. So that's one, but Mike Schmidt's obviously now in charge there as the GM. I knows Mike a little bit from his time up here and the one thing that I've always appreciated about him is that he's been very steadfast in his convictions. I think when you're in that seat, I think a lot of the time you can get pushed around based off of like what you should do or perhaps what your owners want to do. Mike was always like, I this is my one shot. I'm going to just pick the guys that I believe in. He's like Fuck it, I like Jang, I'm going pick we're going to pick Jon, right? And so I think that kind of like fueled this where a lot of mocks, Kyle had like Braden Buress in this, obviously the guard tier, we all thought it would go in succession. zagging, I guess slightly, it seemed like some people did like Morez more than others, but like to me, that like spoke to me where it was just like, oh, he probably just likes this guy and they're just gonna to do whatever they want was that was the sort of, you know, diverging train tracks thing that I was curious about was like There must have been some threshold with the quality of the guards there because their half court offense does need help I mean, whether or not and you know, and then you've got Kyrie coming back from injury. we know Cooper made a lot of progress as as a as a playmaker and as a a processor of the NBA game, which we knew that he would, but that was kind of that that line was what I was curious about was like they didn't really, I guess they didn't want to sign up for, you know, they didn't want to enter the small guard business any further than they already are. So I guess, but Mz Mz makes a lot of sense defensively mayaybe maybe they'll just try to answer that question and through other avenues What do you wantan to do next? Can we talk about the grizzlies I think in particular, because we talked about Cam, with the prospect of like what would happen if the jazz drafted him and where is he fit into that kind of complicated mix of size and skill and how would all that fit together? I mean, this is really energizing in a way that I think like The Grizzlies are a team that clearly need a bankable, dependable element in their rotation, a way to like truly pivot away from the John Morant era into something new and even more exciting. And We can talk go back and forth, I think on which pieces are involved in that sort of like core young core that they have going, but just the idea of Camboozer, Cedric Howard, Zach Edy, Jaylen Wells That's a really interesting collection of players really skilled, really talented, really good defensively potentially U I'm just excited to watch the grizzies in a way that I wasn't even expecting coming into this draft I think the Grizzlies is going to be fascinating going forward and perhaps might be the most interesting case study in how the lottery new rules kind of ripple into teams that are trying to rebuild in the fly like the Grizzlies. And so Kim obviously has a lot going for him. Kyle had him number one at his board. We talked about like how he would fit into Utah. Honestly, it's so funny. likeike I'm anchored in like thinking about him to Utah now. it's almost like I have to rewrite my brain trying force him into Memphis. but Clearly it feels like they have something going very well, but they still ultimately will need a driving force. And I do wonder if they're the worst type of team where because of their market, they can't just like import this guy free agency. They really need to draft their way to that. L how are they ever going to get the drink stirring talent like a Darren Peterson or like the next version of John Marand? Because it seems like what they've built is a really nice context for that. What they're going to need is that thrilling exciting pop And it just becomes a little bit harder because the lottery the way it is in order to get that. And if you're in this market like I just don't know how else it's going to happen What can I float an idea of how they might get that guy? Please Not only do they own all their own picks, they have five additional first round picks over the next five years as a result of you know, the Desmond Bane deal and now the Jeren Jackson deal. like And some of those could be potentially pretty juicy, especially with the Flattened Ddds where, you know, youre you're looking at a swap for a team like Cleveland or Minnesota or something. And in theory, that's not a great pick, but couple of injuries, mayaybe one of those teams ends up in the late lottery. Maybe the Etern confonerence is even more competitive than expected. Crazy things can happen, and I think some of these picks could end up being bundled together into something at least pretty enticing, mayaybe not for the premier guards in the league, but like a good as you say, like driver of offense that fits their timeline. I think they could be in the market for some of those guys with the combination of those picks plus a lot of other good players in the mix here with Scottty Pipp and junior and Ty Jerome and all these guys like that They can put something together that could entice a lot of teams Does this the stability of Camboozer affect the possibility or the value of John Morant at this point because your your leverage is pretty damaged, obviously And you just kind of think like not only is this like I keep using the term mouthwash for this show for our audience, Sish and spit, not only is he that It kind of makes me wonder if he is enough of you know, a structural force for a team. that he could affect the way Job fits into this team. I mean, I'm just wondering you know, just for the audience listening at home, is that a morehead state zip up that you have on Yeah, man. so eagil Because it seems like you really want them to figure this out with Joh because Mhead st morehead st crushed by Jh actually. They were in the same conference as him, but they were just like this. Kindred spirit Yeahah, they're just like local teams. becausecause it seemed like in your I think what was your last mock, you're touring with the idea of like what if Ja played with Peterson. At the very least, you keeping the flame alive in the way that I think few people are with Ja who are just kind of ready to turn the page because it's been such a catastrophe of late. I'm just like is there an act two? I mean, how old is? He's probably twenty six? Is he twenty six right now? John Marant? So just If you're not going to get a great return for him, I just kind of wonder if that is a zag that could happen. And if it did happen I mean, the spacing on that team. if you think about it, Boozer can if you have a shooting four or five like that, you have a bunch of shooters around them, you have a lot of length and size. You've got this guy who, I guess it all just kind of depends on who Joah wants to be at this point because there's no team out there that sees him in his mind's eye the same way that he does in his own mind's eye. So I'm just kind of like is a come to Jesus kind of pivot for his values seems like the smartest thing to do. Is he going to come to that conclusion, you know,s's kind of what I'm That's the deal. I mean, for all of the talk about how they need to move on or they can turn the page and we're kind of engaging in some of that, finding a taker for Job, I think is much more challenging than sitting around and hoping and praying he can just be a little better and a little more attuned to what the team needs. like Maybe you just do hold out that prayer because the alternative, if they did put them on the market A lot of teams just are straight up not interested, incredibly wary of the Job Marant experience. I think you're getting something probablyrobably worse than what the Hwks sc gotout for Trey Young. Like I don't even know that you're getting a CJ McCollum level player in a John Morant deal at this point. And if that's the case you might as well see if he can be good and responsible at least to a degree in the way that a professional basketball team requires Well the good thing is that if that holds true, then Ji is in line for a two hundred million dollars extension. That's true of this. Goodw if you would get it. Right. Do you want to do the flip side of this because in Utah, yet again, they stared a draft prospect in the face as he was like, I don't I don't know if I want to go there and they're like, and they cackled and they high five the ages themselves. And then just took Darren Peterson. We've talked a lot about Kim Boozer there, Kyle. and wondered like how that would all work out with the bigs there. What do you think about Peterson there? like is the fit easier? Do you think this team could be even better next season with Peterson in Yeah, I think the logic behind the boozer pick was He comes in and he you're one of the implied things about taking Boozer was're courting a scenario where we're going to have to make moves. and we talked about this on this show with Peterson. I don't think that's the case. I think that you it's a clean basketball fit. He goes in there. I think he fits with guuante. You'd have to figure that out. You'd have to figure out how to get those guys to play off of each other smoothly. But I think it can happen and I actually think it might benefit Kuante to have a little bit more of that tilted away from him so he can be his true self. So he's not living and dying with like, okay, Kante run the show, be like an incredibly high efficient decision maker, be and be a great scorer. like please spin both of those plates. I think bring in Peterson to play next to Ace Bailey with you know Lowerry with Jaron Jackson Junior. you're huge You can shoot one through five gitimate And I, you know, people say that all the time. It's like, no man. I mean, like they This is going to be a really, really long team that can kind of protect those guys and You know, we were talking about it with Bill and Houseless Knights just I think that they're one of the more talented teams now in the middle of the West. It's pretty it's a pretty fascinating situation to be. I can't really remember a team like this that has been so dramatically unseen and different by the means that they've gone about getting to this point. I think not just that everyone can shoot too, but All of those guys can shoot on the move in a really interesting way that fits like what Will Hardy wants to do and kind of the movement of that offense. One of those things that's easier said than done conceptually to just find people who are comfortable doing that at literally every position in a lineup. but I think it really suits them. I'm excited to see kind of where that action starts as you're saying, like how much of it starts with Kiante versus Darren, but having the having that flexibility, I think is going to make them a really tough team to pin down, especially in the regular season. I think a lot of teams are not going to be ready to deal with everything that they throw at you As we've seen, basically any time that the jazz were healthy enough or interested enough to try to be good If you think about the jazz, if they can create, if they can find their spots where they can get into blender mode. I think you the point you made about the movement shooting is really important because some guys just can't relocate left or right and shoot the ball as well. I see it all the time with prospects where I'm like, yeah, this guy can kind of shoot it, but he needs to be set for a second and you know, feel the win before he lets it fly. And you know, this this group of jazz guys can absolutely want to relocate And you know, as we've seen it, this is a popular sort of I'm off ball cutting and shifting of spacing phenomenon in the NBA. it's just like when you're a health defender and you're taking a single step towards the primary for another team, if that guy behind you is capable of taking a step or two steps to the left and shooting it thirty eightcent, forty percent from three, that's a big difference between, you know, a guy who can just take a stationary shot and these guys quick shots too. So that's interesting on a lot of levels It's a thrilling proposition what they could do together, both George and Peterson. I think with Boozer, there was something spiritually synchronistic to jazz teams in the past where it's like just methodical and efficient and exacting. But the two of them together, like I was trying to think of like when's the last time we had these just like two zippy guards who could really just like fill it up quickly playing off each other, doing banjo style. It doesn't really happen much anymore. If anything, it's usually more of like a Hliocentric creator plus the other guy who goes in and just wreaksavit, the Kyrie and the Luca types. Like I don't know, there's just like something there that could be scintillating. The flip side of that though is like, how often do we see these together perhaps because of the overlap and because it takes like a certain personality, I think to play with that sort of like ferocity and like speed and all this other stuff And so I do worry, especially considering what we're hearing about Peterson. On the other side of that though, I am starting to get worried that maybe we're overestimating like what type of a guy Peterson is just based off of like a pretty weird situation with Kansas. I don't's a kid. He was maybe just didn't like Kansas. Clearly, he was dealing with a lot of things with his body and like how to manage that and how to manage that in a bureaucratic system that's just like trying to bleed him dry of money, for instance Um, But you know, it seems like at the very least, there's more room for a spark to happen when he's having to overlap with someone similar enough to him in his own background Yeah, I think it's instructive for all of us to remember not to take an undue swipe at college basketball, but this is basically like these dudes are mandated to go do something for a year while they wait to play in the NBA. And not every situation is going to be perfect. There are a lot of voices in their ears. There's a lot of like conflicting motivations for everyone involved Darren Peterson's job And this is look, this is antithetical to how I feel about the sport in a lot of ways and so you can sense this conflict within a lot of college players, but it's like their job personally to themselves and to their family is to get to the NBA with the highest draft potential possible and the greatest earning potential possible And their considerations for their teams while important and clearly driving of like what makes, you know, a championship level squad at the NCAA level doesn't have to be the primary concern there because it's not the end game. like it's not where they want to end up. It's not what they're shooting for. And so judging them based on that goal as opposed to like what is going to get them to the league, I think is missing the point for a lot of these guys. It's a funny detourour when you're right. I mean, we all know what the end result is, you know, the high schooler thing went on for so long and it's like College basketball is this odd thing that exists within the orbit of the NBA where you have the there's it's a great business obviously because you have these really, really old fan bases who are going to spend money and it's it exist it justifies its existence based on that and the interest level as we've seen. but U You're basically asking these guys who know that they're going to be in the NBA to do this like, hey, man, market yourself for a year. And if you're as good as Darren Peter and you be like you fucking serious man. I need market M what? Like I can understand how thered be a little resentment or a lot of resentment on that front and how you'd want to justbide your time because you're talking about generational wealth you're talking about whereas, you know, I know college the money's gotten better, but you know, a million two, three million dollars. It's like it's a big difference between that and your initial rookie rookie deal. So I understand that. And the NBA, but on the other hand, you know, the NBA values it too because in that year that's a there's some pretty interesting filtering that goes on in that year. Absolutely that can reveal personality, that can reveal developmental strain, you know, how you adjusted the speed of higher levels of organized basketball. So I see how it's a headache, but in most cases, it's kind of a it's a pretty valuable and necessary filter for the NBA. Ture. Listen, Peterson is a letterbx lord He not only had favorite movies, but he had them straight off the dome. He knew what was happening. He had his four favorites locked in. And so he's a man of sophistication and taste. So don't let all these reports lead you astray. Okaykay? He loves Interstellar. Y. He loves the fugitivean was a? Can we please canan we please. I've been dying to talk about this with yall. In Interstellar is one of those If you talk to like real science people, they're just like, give me a break. Like this is so cringe. W the science you think the mystical time traveling bookcase isn't legit. What what's funny about that movie is it seemed like they took so much effort to get the last part of the movie like scientifically correct. Yeah. I think a lot of stuff is right in it But I think people who wr just They resent them being it's it's just like, That's what makes a swerve good. like the setting up the scientific reality to then go like, wait, but what about heart Anytime as m time there. And your that tries to get like legitimacy. I just feel like because I knew I know a lot of I knew a lot of jazz people or just jazz majors. I was always the less talented person in those people's proximity, but I know a lot of them And when whiplash came out, I knew jazz people was just it's not like that. And I was like, this is a really good movie. I was like, whaty, why are you so you know, they're just overly worried about the technical aspects of it Interstellar just has a like a broie, it's emotional. It just it checks a lot of boxes. I love that movie. I mov is like I'm not down very good. I just say that that one didn't surprise me. Fugitive, the era of fugitive is why I'm like, how did how did a young k guy like Darren Peterson arrive at Fugitive? I was like because it played on T andT a lot that he just kind of Maybe his dad's a film buff. I was he young enough to be Watching T and T I think is like or is he old enough to have like T andT on. He's probably firing that up on Netflix. NBA T andT that was why I was thinking like maybe I don't know.be it's just on. you turn the TV on as He's a phes guy too. Animal Kingdom guy. Yeah suits Yeah. Waking up at five AM to charmed reruns, you know, it's all very normal stuff But this was the clearest indication to me that like whatever concerns people had about his makeup or his background Just throw them out. likeike if the p not the Patriot. if the fugitive is among your top three favorite movies, you were raised right as far as I'm concerned That's right. All right, why don't go to number four quickly? Obviously that was probably the easiest pick on the board. I have to imagine like the Bowls W room was just like sipping my ties just waiting until they could just put Caleb Wilson's name in there. But I thought him plus Swain was a pretty interesting haul. I think that's what you had Mck to to the Blls with their two picks, Kyle. likeike what do you think ultimately? Like I don't know. I know I'm a bulls like apologist, but like I feel it I feel the energy kind of coursing through this franchise. You're a bulls apologist based on a giddy apologist. Yeah. Oh I think I I think I have just seen the vision through a lot of smoke and haze and like a lot of dumb stuff going on there. I see what they were trying to do It just didn't really do it. Well, Bry Bryson There's just nothing he he just started. So I'm just kind of like, well if you're going by the vision of the past, I'm like, There seems to be a spiritual synergy to what happened before over with Kernisovis with what I think they're kind of leaning towards, which is just athletes ll past shoot guys you could defend. We're gonna move up and down. We talked about this with Tate a little bit. The like spiritual Caruso team That seems like what they're going, especially because they went out and basically got into Claxon for free. Like I think this team is going to be super fun next year and it feels like Wilson in particular, but also like Swayain considering like what he could be might fit this overall vision down. I get the sense that we're seeing a temporary look at something just because you said dribble passass shoot. It's like there's a lot of dribble pass But we're stack maybe a lot of Yeah, there's a lots to play with his face to the basket first and foremost and then we'll get to the other stuff Yeah, so we'll figure that out. And I was joking about this where I was trying to think about like what Caleb and what Swain fit with on the roster. I was just like this is a waste of time. Like whyy am we even worrying about this? Because we have a GM that's starting over. So he's probably going to shift the vision. And we've got just a lot of pieces that are clunky together. They became like a small guard offloading kind of looading zone. I don't, you know and about taking on Dillingham and everything. So In terms of Swain man. I mean, not to be a broken record here, but he's just he's he's nasty. He's an upside played. I like him a lot and I was saying that I could see him just succeeding Gy. likeike I think that's possible. I know at that pick that might seem for what Gy's grown into He just could be a cheaper guy who does more both directions and he's a big time passer reallyally, really wiggly with the ball, really good score inside, you know, inside the arc Just kinda figured out that outside the arrk stuff. I would just say between what I think is like the three cornerstones, whatever you want to call them. like bzealous Wilson and now Claxton all seem like they are of the same type Like do they're just athletes who could do a little bit sk. I know Claxon is like Yeah flashed glimpses of doing something before. But even if he is just an athletic Run up and down the core, bouncy rim protector, and lob finisher That all seems to work in concert to me I hesitate to put Nick Clxton in that group. this this that trade felt so much more to me like let's just see if he has a little more life in him than he's shown because frankly, like all those things are within Nick Claxson. He's been a good switchable defense. St a young guy. He's a very young guy That dude has been asleep for like two straight years and no one wouldt I'm not saying I blame him, but if you were trading for Nick Claxon under the pretense that he's going to be old Nick Clxton, it's going to be that he changes something pretty dramatically from the guy he's been in the most recent seasons. Ver possible. We've seen tons of times, especially with teams like teams like Brooklyn, where you go to a new situation, you feel energized, you feel invested in and all of a sudden you start playing totally differently I'm saying let's wait and see a little bit. And that felt to me a little more like let's take a chance on notot a damaged asset, but a guy whose reputation has taken a spill. He hasn't been exactly getting all defense votes in the win consideration in the way that he used to Let's see who Nicklelectson is in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven. I'm honestly not entirely sure I think it's a consistency issue more than anything U will a Bowls team that seems like it's going to still be mired in sort of this like low level East team? Like is that really the team to like unlock that. I don't know. But I just just like the bet. They got them for free. Yeah. and it's a wine for sure. The athletic like super fast, let's just like kind of rip and run sort of style of. I think that they're going to play. I to talk about the guards now who went after that. So we got Waggler to the cllippers Michael Brown to the Nets, Akof to the Kings Flemings. to the hawks and then I guess you throw burdes there going to the to the bucks after Morz Johnson goes to Dallas. Which of these Kyle do you think is the most interesting? This kind of played out how you'd expected outside of Burrys going one pick maybe later But are any of these fits more interesting to you than others? I mean, I've been on record that Kingston with the Hawks that was that was the choice. They had a similar choice to make his Dallas where it was like, you know, what we probably could go big or we could go guard here and they, you know, they chose to do to go guard. I just think Kingston I think resigning McCollum to kind of be around him also is another thing that could be cool Kingston is really bright. I mean you listen to him talk about the game. I think he is a lot more methodical in the half court than he gets credit for. So you get his crazy speed and I think you get some thoughtfulness. And I think he's going to pick up the NBA game pretty quick. I just like the idea of They have enough creators and They have enough big creators on that team with Jalen and then, you know, knock I hate to saying N and, I don't know. there's something about it.il Alexander Walkerls could say they have some of those guys who can outsource some of that so that it's not burdening him, but he's going to add a whole lot and make those guys good. So I could see that being pretty fun in the short term. like I think that the hawks are going to be pretty fun next year Yeah, especially if he can give those guys just like any sort of downhill momentum to draft off of where I mean, that's where we saw get jammed up in the playoffs against the Kicks, right? It was when New York really battten down the hatches and Jayalen had to go ISO Nkel had to go ISO. CJ had to continue to go ISO over and over and over They just ran into the wall. like those guys are not built for that kind of offense. And so anyone that can create an advantage that other people can then magnify and manipulate and play out of I think Kingston could potentially be doing some of that pretty immediately, if not on a full time starting level basis. He's probably going to be in like Tyree Maxy little brother mode for a little while with them. That's my expectation, but hell he'll be a pretty promising thing for them for the future. So ultimately The Pelkans swapped Derek Queen for Flemings, right How do we feel about this? Because I think when it happened, it seemed like a catastrophe. And I still think it was because there was a big possibility that this might have a higher pick and all of a sudden, it's Cbooer and it's just like, holy shit, like this would have been a transformable guy Um, but just player for player If you're the Pelicans I think you'd probably rather queen. It's a little mixed because of who else they picked in last year's draft. Yeah But like this Similar level if anything, Queen at the very least flashed as a rookie that he perhaps has, like a really high level ceiling in terms of just his playmaking juice. Well it's Aceon Newel too as well, right? It's like the combination of him and Kingst and Famming. Unfortunate Fr I mean, I don't know either, but it's if we're talking about just like taking a flyer on guys and who they're going tos twenty thirty pick, I think. Yeah. I think I mean, you talk to people around the league. I don't know if you all had conversations about this, but I'm sure you did. it was more For people I talked to, it was more just about the process and it's about the simple logic of like, you know, if I jumped out in the street, you know, on a busy highway and I was just like, you know, everybody's like, Hey, man, you might get hit by a bus. And I' be like, I didn't hit by a bus. seeee everything. I was right. It was a good idea to do that. It's just like no, man, like just don't jump out in traffic like that. That's That's a bad thing to do. It's like the process is bad even if the result didn't end up as catastroic. I don't know if that's the perfect one of one, but I'm sure there's a better one. But for me, that was everybody that I talked to that was about that was what it was about. Like if that pick had gone higher, I don't even know if the Kings and Derick Queen thing. I know we can do that all day and just compare them and whatever and we've yet to see Kingston. I think Derek also showed a lot of stuff this past year. I think he has some questions to answer in terms how he can stay on the floor and be productive in a half court offense and everything. But Yeah, it's it's the process was the thing that was the sticking point The thing that might have bailed them out is three teams jumped into the top four. And so then this is this was like basically a worst case scenario for the Pelicans pick that became the Hwks pick Optically, it just history will look upon it a little better than they should. Hopefully so Uh do you want to talk about ACoff though? If you like, sure. Gone in the Kings I love it Do you I just I think he's exactly what they need, which is just anything, any sort of juice, any sort of like leadership. just there are a blank slate in the way that few teams are in this day and age considering the depth of talent in this league And I just think he has something and if he's going to be that version of it, at the very least, like They can build around him and insulate him from some of his potential defensive issues and just let him be like a superstar in terms of like his ability to rise to the moment and play to a certain stage. I don't disagree with the idea. I just think it's It's tough for any young player to come in on What is kind of philosophically a blank slate, but technically not. likeike there's so many guys on this team who feel entrenched because of their deals who feel a little unmovable. We'll see what happens with Dar de Rosen. There's certainly some rumblings out there of what his future may or may not be with the team or the fact that he could be on the open market soon. But I don't know. it's hard to in as a younger guy and be the energizing collaborating organizing force of a locker room. right? Like you can do it some as a point guard, but like other than I don't know, Damiian Lillard, haveave we seen a lot of young guards come in and really take on that role immediately I think he's going to be pretty good in terms of like putting points on the board. I think he'll have nights on league pass where people, you know, that boy nice real Hooper kind of stuff where it's just like see told you. Like I think that's going to be going on. But I think the main thing the step one is just the stabilization. Like he's going to come in. He's got a quiet confidence about him. I think the vets will respect him pretty quickly And then we can combine it with Justin's guy, Alex Caravan, who they took with their later pick, which is that was an interesting like DNA of winning mindset that they took with that pick that they just don't typically do in the in the past. like they haven't really done that. And So you start with the stabilization and then we just start sort of working forward from there. Not that ACuff is just this like neutral like flacid guy. like he's going to give you a whole lot. I think on an optimal type play offff. like really, really competitive team. You're not riding and living and dying with like whether or not he's this Helio genius, whatever it is. He's probably, I think going to play with like other stars and be that just steady kind of force. But man, it's just crazy to think about whereere they are, like That twenty twenty three team learned a hard lesson against the Warriors in the playoffs in that first round series And they run it back and we're like, All right, let's see what they do. Here we go, twenty twenty four and they win what forty four games again something like that. And then it was just over. L it really ded school. Yeah learned one lesson, they're like,. Got one bad grade on a final and they were just like, you know what? Screw this. I'm going to go you know, started started a greenhouse or something. I don't know. But it was P prettyty crazy shiff. If any need any tips on the greenhouse, just let me know Um just just all due respect to the vets A the Kings right now t I really don't think you matter. likeike I think they're going as long as their their contracts last. Yes. And so like Zach Levine will be there until he's not. Demarda Rosen will be there as long as they need to make the math work on another trade in order to get someone else in there for a slot. And like Sab bonus, I guess has two years left on his deal, but like clearly they're out there trying to trade him. So The transition has started. And I just don't think like if everyone's on the same page and just like leaning more into ACuff than still trying to do deference to these these guys, like they should be fine an Can we rename him Zach Rvine? because if you go and sign him, you've swerved into our basketball Rvine? That makes more sense to me. Okay, Dad. All right. this is the two hours of sleep talking, I think U Any other intriguing fits Penty of oded, just now You want to talk about the fit of Tim Bonepps going to the to the Hawks? Yeah. I do you think he's going to slot into the lineup there I think he's good, you know, I think might need to work out a jumper a little bit, but he's a real alchemist out there. But who's going to keep McMahon in check now Like I feel like there's there's a real vacuum he leaves behind. Uh I think that's I think it's your job, you know. That's all Texan. I mean, look. Yeah we check each other. That's that's an important job for anyone in the lone star state. but I mean, I can't be doing it on a regular basis. I got YouTube to mind Here's a question When we look back on this draft, let's say three years, five years from now, we're always like, how did that guy fall? Like how did he go so much later? Why didn't they see? How could they not see it And Kyle, is there any guy that jumped out to you maybe didn't go in the top half of the draft or somewhere in that soft middle that you're like, oh, that's the guy that I'm betting. I mean, a lot of people are going to point to Lberon Fylon falling. I'll be interested to see as the like intel starts to pour out about that like why that happened posossibly a result of maybe people not more clearly seeing like the scoring upside with him and a lot of his strengths are kind of subtle like, okay, he he's going to add a cleverness, just a less obvious kind of offensive upside and then, you know, he's skinny. I could see where people were kind of dinging him on that. So he's somebody that I could see He is a quiet kind of winning player vibe to his game. that maybe caused him to fall. It kind of reminds me of the way like Rondo fell in like I guess the two thousand six draft But Rondo had kind of personality issues that people were worried about. This isn't really that I just think Liber and phylon when all of this the dust kind of settles He's going to end up being somebody that's like, yeah, yeah that a good player. I'm not sure why he fell. If Rob feels like swwim could be one of those guys too, right? basased on at least based on the way you're kind of categorizing him, right? K of like especially if some of these smaller guards don't pan out, this idea of like, oh, you had the run of all these guys and This like burly versatile wing was sitting right there Um, I mean, he's still a little we haven't seen it Totally yet. I mean, he's an upside bet. I don't think it was like crazy for him to get picked there because he just has so many things. Oh no still, but I mean in in the now Yeah, we could redraft and he'll be hired Remember when the Sixers traded Jared McCain? because they're like, eh We don't need this Obald Juice guard off the bench We've got our guys And then they just drafted a guy with Jice who can enter the wall It's interesting. We make mor Sour the verict in Philly. Yeah different regime, but I guess I get it. Do you want to talk about acaintance just real quickly because we mentioned them The spur is just doubling down on bigigs is certainly interesting, especially considering when acquaintance talked to reporters after the draft Sounds like he's still, in his words, feeling pain in his knee and has to have another procedure. And so the risk here is just all over the place. That's why a guy this young and this assumedly talented would fall to number twenty. But holy shit, if this gets right, Like, think about what happened with D Wan Blair where like the no ACLs but ended up being like a pretty credible rotation player for the spurs. It's like What about that but like on like multiple steroids? like the absolute best possible version, pllus you could round out one of the best young talents that we've seen in this leue I'm speculating. I know for a fact that there was pressure for him to come back early. I feel like it was sooner than he probably should have because he came back from an ACL in less than a year And just that body type, a big athletic guy, you know, the hard cuts, the moving around is just like, why I come back so early? I didn't really understand that That makes me wonder if Because he didn't look right. He came back and had a game where he looked really, really peppy and dominant. And then after that, it was like Somet happened. like I think he aggravated his knee. That was a pretty That was a pretty big talking point here. So if he does have lingering soreness, I think it's just because he didn't take his time coming back adequately the way that he should have. You also, you know, you run the risk of getting rejured, obbviously always that's possible, especially with like springy guys of his type. We've seen that with like Robert Williams, who slipped in the drafts. But Yeah, man. I mean, he's He's so, so nasty around the basket and takes such violent offense to anyone else scoring around the rim that he's going to add immediately a wrinkle for them that is much needed. And if you can get a talent like this, I said it on Bill show. I'll say it again, legitimately, it is possible that we could look back on this draft be going to redrafts and he could be like in the five range. He's that talented of a defender and I just think he's really, really special. and it really isn't a Kentucky thing. like I swear to God, like I had two loal guys in top twenty on my big board missed me with that shit. It's just acquaintances Quains is really good. I think this could pan out and be a huge win for this pur. Well, especially in terms of archype, it sounds like he's dramatically different from anything else they had like, especially going if he can play the four or play with WenB in some configuration. That could be really exciting You could tell how excited they were for the opportunity because he might not play next year or he'll certainly like seems like he'll have a delayed start at the best case scenario And that's young. That's a crazy thing. he's only eighteen. Yeah. He's literally not even nineteen right now. according to the draft guide. He's eighteen point nine years. So take that decal points. But they're so excited about this that they got him at twenty. They trade back into the draft because they need a big now and then they get Teris Reid from Yukon clelearly justust a all around great guy who's full of character and moxie that you just cannot teach But they they almost got he was literally taught at Connecticut and didn't have it before he got there. Sorry to your credit. both even better we go. Yeah. even better. Like they basically like, oh, we need someone in the meantime. We'll get him. I know there' different types of players. like maybe they can even give a different type of flavor if you if you have both of them available, but like Clearly they're just like, oh, we need quainttenance because he's such a like a highly upside proposition. Let's just get a guy for now just to like fill that spot If you thir here at Terrace Reed, Rob I've none. Do you know who that is? Have you never heard that name before? It could be a fake name as far as I'm concerned. He's a Bobson dugut to you. No, mean, yeah, he's a crafty post guy. I think he'll he'll get buckets in the short term. from You cau. I mean, I gathered that part. I mean, it's not lost on me that we all ended up like drudging up our alma mers into this because we're parodies of ourselves. but We also are who we are, so what can we do All right Let's take a break When we come back, we're going to talk about the ywn is Strait a little bit and also some news that just broke while we were in the midst of this podcast. 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Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems T to your doctor. callall one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zppbounds. liily. com Let's talk about Peroni's disease, or PD It's now widely talked about. and some men may feel reluctant to bring it up But it's more common than you'd think PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve or a bump during an erection that for some men, may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment Visit talkaboutpD. com All right As we were going deep on the draft, little news broke. Austin Reeves is staying the Lakers in the bosom of one Luka Donchic Bosom and buddies staying together, going forward. I don't think that I do free time it's also talking to myself. It's not lost on us that you have found a way to yet again worm the Lakers into this podcast. So your powers Wh Wh do you keep doing this as if I talk about the Lakers a lot? You do. I literally do not. You're weird about the Lakers. L that This is completely unfounded and it's almost as if like you're the one running these like bot accounts, like trying to talk shit about me and like just like come up with things that just like aren't true First of all, I do run those bot accounts. You have outed me in front of the world, but I will though, look, I'm just saying Some of the time, it's like, oh, what teams should we talk about today? What teams can we bundle together into a theme And the Lakers have a way of finding themselves into that group. And sometimes you flex your considerable muscle in this industry. This is force off unaxhit. I literally do not do this. If anything, I take great pride in the fact that we only talk about the L lakers when. Well, it's just matters that's true Except for the previous spot. I definitelyish you weren't them in then. If only just because I w to talk about. it's f. He's a one man psciO op catalyst for the lakes. Justin Verrier. They need the pub for sure. That's tr. U So he comes back to the Lakers on a max but only a four year deal. So three plus one. guess it kind of aligns him with Luca as one more extra year U than Luca, but that is the player option So what do you think, Rob, I think just like good piece of business. they keep them out of the hands of like another team throwing an offer at them and I guess fewer years. I mean, what jumps the mind to you? Yeah, I think it's kind of a no brainer. I know there's been plenty of perspective haggling over like what this contract might look like or what it should look like, but the idea that the Lakers need to keep Austin Reeves is beyond reproach and this is what it costs you. Like I don't know I don't know what to tell you. He's an incredible onball creator, an incredible facilitator, a shooter who can space the floor and play with other stars. Those guys don't come cheap. They usually cost you a max. And so You can't really afford to take other steps back as you're trying to get the Lucaa off the ground. And this feels just like business as it should be done for the Lakers as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you can't you can't let you had the good eyes and the good fortune of, you know, IDing Austin's talent and I don't think you can kind of let somebody else reap the rewards of his prime years. I think you need to keep that in house Good and good strategy I think he was a max player regardless, not only because of what he showed last season and just like what he's been showing over the course of his career, but just down on the market. I think a lot of teams could use a player like them. So he's going to get the max and once that happens, like there really isn't much haggling. It really is how many years you want on your deal. I think the big thing is like also this is why teams always try to retain their talent rather than playing like the cork board and like what can we do here and the fantasy of the trade machine because now that they have Reeves under contract and they know exactly what they're getting into in free agency, they now have the power to spend and like figure out the rest of their team. their reports about like, what are they going to do with LeBron? I think he's probably in addition to Jalen Brown, like the big hanging Mzza ball over this offseason I'm so conditioned at this point to like keep talking about LeBron and he just ends up going back to the Lakers. And so like I'm a little shell shocked to even like get to the point where I'm like starting to think about him on another team. But the Lakers clearly by retaining Reefs, now that they can go out and do the rest of their business. And we talked about last podcast when it was a perfect time to talk about the Lakers off season like what they were going to do to build a team around Luca because it is time to like hit the ground running, get him the requisite talent and so they compete on the level that I think he's been waiting to compete for since he left the Mavericks. I don't know that they're going to be hitting the ground running, but they can at least do it at like more of a steady pace coming out of the gate and with a clearear sense of notot just what this upcoming season is going to be, but hopefully what the shape of the core is going to be around Luke. just like again, one more piece in the door over the course of this off season, I think is a reasonable expectation, whether that ends up being a defensive wing, whether that's a replacement big. They just need one more thing to nail down, and I feel like they can feel pretty confident about the state of things there Hit the ground crawling Joss Low Tot, canter. I think they want to canter. They want to cancer I see What's a canter It's like a hop cubkip. It's like a it's subtrot, right? or is it above trot? Should we be powering? It's I think the galy. I mean the stuff has already been been done. Give me a Christian Lanaeus taxonomy of of movement So I'm learning that a canter is a very specific three beat horse gate that's like a little over ten ten to fifteen miles per hour roughly. So you know, I think I think we can expect that. Is a canter purposeful? It's different than sort of a saunter or I I think I think it's definitely more purposeful than those They've been ambling. LeBron andace has kind of forced them to amble crazy sex appeal in this podcast right now. ra Well Speaking of teams that are ambling Why don't we talk about the Milwaukee Bucks who finally fininally we traded Jianest and Tatacumpo the other day Um, Maybe first Bush takes overall. likeike what's the what's the knee jerk reaction? Do you guys feel good that this is finally over? Do you feel intrigued by the new look Miami heat? Like Rob, what's like number one on your board? I think it's intrigued by the heat. You're always more interested in the team that's actually going to be good and it's going to be a long time before the bucks are actually good again. So It's It feels good to get excited about Janis with a collection of players who are going to be a little more up to his competitive standard. him and Bam, I'm excited to see their pairing. him and Davave Yon Mitchell and kind of like the hell they can unleash defensively again with Bam as part of that configuration. What the he end up doing with Norm Powell and if they're able to bring him back or not. My I'm kind of swirling around those ideas, especially with an Eastern conference that The Kicks have entrenched themselves as a fixture there. Everything else feels like very up in the air. Some of these other contenders all have moving parts, moving pieces. they're trying to figure out who they are as well. I think the heat have injected themselves into that conversation in a fun way I think the proposition starts with the defensive identity that they're going to have a potentially really imposing one. If you think about the ball pressure of Debian Mitchell, you make the backstop of what a combination. I mean, I switch ability and the rim protection between Bam and between Janis Bam a huge revelation being that Bam Very timely this patcher started to add more of a higher three point rate to his game as we saw with his huge you know, just utterly disrespectful to the Lakers. I just want to be clear how on the Lakers side I am and the Kobe thing here, just so disrespectful to Kobe. I was just going with the Lakers bit there But and then we'll we'll see how Andrew Wiggins kind of connects Do we do we how much more Andrew Wiggins can we get here? but I think you start there. I think they have offensive questions to answer. I was kind of going through the the UFAs that are going to be on the market just kind of where they could go. Camp Thomas is available. I was going to say. that's as a starting point if you want to knock on that door and he'll immediately answer, I'm sure Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing that jumps out is just spiritually he feels like a heat player. And for that reason it's nice to see like these two things come. Yonis. They're not Kim Thomas. You talk about Yonis Well, Kamp Thomas certainly spiritually like a lot of certain types of heat players maybe the DN Waiters, the ones that didn't necessarily work out. But yeah, Janis in the heat definitely have the certain synergy and like they seem like it's almost like a Jimmy Butler thing where it's like he was always kind of a heat player just mentally, like now he just gets to put on the jersey.. It's going to be a sludge factory in terms of offense because we're just assuming that they bring back Wiggins and Norm Powell at this point. Like that is the starting point, but Wiggins has a player option. Norm Powell is an unrefricted free agent. I just assume that they knew that they were coming back and already had those deals in place when they went out and made this. But like even on top of that, like they need to find like, I would say three Role players, it is funny that the bucks took literally every intriguing young player except for Nicole Yovich who unfortunately got signed to an extension, I think last year during like the rookie extension period. And it's now like a pretty bad deal. Like there's still something in there. He has skill and he has size, clearly like has an intuition for passing feel But like I don't think he's really the answer. If anything, they need more just plug and play role players and shooters. But like it's there. L they're giving themselves a chance and like after beinging in the wilderness post Jimmy and even during the late stage of Jimmy where it's just like, this is just like kind of a bummer to watch They seem like renewed and fun again, which is the best thing you could hope for at this point. Absolutely. Let's get into some next questions though. So like obviously everyone's had their whack on the honest just like first kind of thought about this and what the fit is going to be, all that other stuff. I want to go kind of spin it forward from here And interesting enough, like I'm kind of curious about what the bucks do from here. They're basically they just took everything that's interesting. They just gathered it all up in a little sack and then just ran off and that is their team at this point. They added two picks in these draft Bures and then Nate Aent Aent certainly adds to this idea that they're just like trying to pull from anything with upside in order to find something to hitch their wagon to I'm curious if you guys One, like let's start with the bucks themselves. like like which of these players I think do you think could have a more interesting future now with Milwaukee. Rob, is it like are you do you think where has it? is Haez with a little more space? Like which of these guys do you think could pop potentially? Yeah, I mean, I think where is kind of the easy answer potentially. although like what do they do with him and Miles and are those guys playing together orr does where have to come off the bench in the short term? orr do you bring miles off the bench I don't know clunky fit out of the gate But who where could be I think we're all enticed by the possibility. There's a lot he needs to nail down in terms of just kind of like the fundamentals of playing NBA basketball even still. He is very much a work in progress But a work in progress that has a lot more allowance in Milwaukee to play through mistakes and to find himself and to experiment with all of the full range of his notot just size, but everything he can do like as a skill player. I'm hopeful that Kloware can be a different kind of player for the bucks than he was for the heat. I also like I'm a real believer in Casroaca Chonus. and so like he really found himself and kind of like found his stride, I would say over the last twenty, twenty five games of last season I don't think he's ever going to be a star, but I think he's going to be the kind of guy who we look up and has just been a good connecting player for good teams for a long time by the midpoint or the endpoint of his career. And so maybe this is yet another chance where When he has a shooting slump, he doesn't get pulled from the rotation. And when he's showing some limitations, there's just like more reason to play him and keep pushing him forward in his development Th Miami might have had otherwise if they kind of like stood pad with what they had Yeah, the Koellwar thing, I think makes sense. He's shown, you know He can space the floor. It's just kind of he's yet to cross that bridge I wouldious say the heenuks are kind of in a similar boat of like they add all these really crazy physical intangibles, but they're imposing the imposing quality of their offensive game, specifically like as a self creator. It's like in isolation and post ups. You just watch them and it's always fading. It's getting run off of his line. It's like taking these like really odd fading short mid range shots where you're just like, dude, do you know how big you are? Like, you know, just go out there and impose your wheel will a little bit. impose your wheel. So' very tucky in there moment. I was going to say, do we in terms of who could level up, I mean, do we still count? Tyler Ho is a young person. I would. He's entering interesting thing could happen here I don't necessarily think that Milwaukee is has in getting hero has discovered like, okay, this guy' this centerpiece. you have the car keys and we have a playoff team. I do think he's going to get the car keys. He could have an all star season next year because he's entering his like twenty seven through thirty one range here where I expect his production to spike. I That's one thing. so and you know, you only played thirty three games last season. So I could see him returning kind of all Star form this coming year. I think that kind of gets us to the flip side of this question is like how many of the holdovers are really destined to be with the bucks beyond this off season, even going into this season? And I kind of would count hero in that mix because on the one hand, you would think like maybe the bucks just want to have something to move forward with, like a tempple. It seemed like part of their interest in Jalen Brown was to just like kind of have a superstar and go from there and figure everything else out Obviously Hio is into that level, but certainly he is a known commodity. made an all star team two seasons ago Um I have to wonder like, Would you keep him or would you try to spin him for because I think there would be suitors. We talked I think on this podcast recently about the potential of him pistons. They went out and got a bookca Kori. Wh's like at the very least similar type, right? I think like smaller, but it has more juice little more guy. little more jitterbg, a little more low of the ground sports car, you know, tight tight turns like point guard gets in the paint, you know, makes your ankles hurt when you watch him type guards. like scoring tilted heavily. He's smaller than Ho. Heroes like gravity as a score is just completely different. Yeah. It's all dribble pull up, kinetic movement shooting kind of things They could go get them both. I don't think one negates the other. What is the hero car comp? Is he just like a Toyota camry? What's happening question Um, I don't have a good answer that.ion Mbe. Maybe a Jeep. He's a Jeep Wrangler, I think . He's ling rugged Maybe a Jeep renegade. Yeah It's like a little rugged, but also like a little impractical for a lot of situations if we're all being honest with ourselves, but you talk yourself into it, you like the look, you know, mayaybe it just fits your style I love. do you think Do you think he sits Do you think he fits the style of Milwaukee and like potentially what they could be next? What is their style I know exactly. I' trying to figure out what are they? I don't know. It's like does this couch fit in this the framing of this house and this dirt floor? I'm like, yeah, you can put that couch there. I don't really know what's going on in this house yet. Yeah. Is's just a backroom style just like a clump of chairs? Yeah. It really feels that way the rest of this roster. It's half formed furniture sunken into the walls. Maybe it vaguely resembles something you remember from your past, but also maybe not But that's kind of the question though, is he the type of player you want to build forward with or is he best used on a team that already hasn't established identity and you add his pop on top of that is shroooting H stretch. Yeah. I think it's more that. I think I think the plan here. I mean, look, you bring him in and you see. that's that's what it should be. Give him give him the opportunity, give him the keys. seeee what the offense looks like with even more freedom. But although I would say he had plenty of it in Miami at various stages to kind of do his thing. It's not like he's been deprived of that But I think the model is sort of the Michael Porter juniror rejuvenation plan. Bring him in Let him expand his game in certain key areas, but keep constantly exploring the market and see if there is an opportunity to flip him to a team that's competing for a little bit more that can plug and play him in a way that they desperately need Brooklyn Bridge model, right Rob? The you know, you come in, you run a little ball screen. We like it. I think the vision of Hero early in his career is I don't know that the ever is going to evolve into a different species of player. I'm really hung on that today for some reason. I just think He played the finals, man as as as a vision of kind of what I think he is. I think he's he's like a second, third score and there's nothing wrong with that if you're if you're winning Right. And they definitely like had him Moonlight is something a little bit more something more on the ball, someomeone who could be a little bit more of a playmaker. I don't think that necessarily is that's him. But if he does a little bit of that in concert to whatever else you have going along, maybe do it more on second units, like I think that still works for him. So he's a good player. He just needs to find the right home I wonder if you could say that about many of the leftovers for the bucks though, Rob I mean, you talked about Miles Turner and my question just overall is like, is he just cooked at this point because just looking at the contract situation, you think it's worse than it is because of all the machinations that got him to Milwaukee because D we have to stretch, all this other stuff. But it's like it's like pretty fine. It's like mid twenties starter quality center. money and I do wonder if his specific skill set to be able to protect the rim and still step out and shoot threes is pretty unique and advantageous if you specifically have a type of scoring for that a lot of these teams have and like And so I wonder is there like is there still hope for him on another team? There's still hope. I'm not leaving Mouse Turner for dead But last season was very flat and it was a weird bucks campaign. They were dealing with all the honest stuff in addition to just like many other roster problems. It wasn't an ideal fit for him given to the players they had on the floor but also just the way his career has kind of b where I don't know that we really should consider him to be like an impact protector anymore. I don't think positionally like he's in those spots often enough to be like a real difference maker on defense. He is he's a spacer, truly. I think he showed over the course of that pacers run. He can also kind of step in and hit some mid range stuff. He can occasionally take the ball off the bounce and kind of help continue your play sequences. But I think he's more of an offensive big than a defensive one. And that's a crazy thing to say given where his career started and kind of where he st like staked his claim as a pro But that's why I would hesitate. if you're thinking of him as like, the stretch five with the Brook Lopez type potential. I just don't think he's that guy anymore I think he was right to kind of take the money and run when he did because the Halliburton value thing. I think he probably read the room was like Halbert's out. This is probably the Hallibton helped him as he often does with most players. He helps them to be the best versions of themself He's also pushing thirty, isn't he? He's not mid twenties. He has to be. He was fifteen draft. twenty nine twenty nine, thirty somewhere in there. I kind of think He was just a pacer for like fifty years somehow. and we you know, perpetually trying to find other fits for him. He finally got his other fit and now it's just, I don't know. I don't know where his career is going to go from here I hope he has greener pastures ahead and maybe they'll be in Milwaukee, Maybe they'll be somewherese as kind of a reclamation project Just turned thirty. Yeah, I just feel like Teams do so much elsewhere and often just leave the shooting component open. And when you have a lot of your skill in some of your bigger players, for instance, like what the Toronto Raptors do, like it would be advantageous to have your five be able to step out in space a little bit. The problem with the Raptors forance one, it seems like they only want guys who are six nine. and so Maybe that's just their identity. mayaybe just be Barnes and CMB and now Alan Graves and just everyone it's just a different version of this Yakum style team that they had a couple years ago On the flip side of that, like I don't know Turner, if you're just buying him so low that you're just dealing with the pain of his contract and adding that to your books, like if you were to swap Rob RJ. Barret for Miles Turner Does that intrigue you at all? if only me toill fill a gap on your team for a guy that doesn't seem long for your team? The thing is RJ also fills a lot of gaps with the Raptors.ike who he is as a downhill driver is something that isn't replicated by Emmanuel quuickly that Scottty Barnes is kind of an otter paced player. like RJ is really important. It was one of their best players in the playoffs, especially when Brandon Ingram was ineffective and then hurt. The idea of Miles Turner in place of Jacob Burle Yeahes, sign me up. likeike clearly that's a better fit and a better player than what they were trotting out at the five But they also have Colin Mary Boyles who I'm not bringing in anything to kind of stand in his way. if I'm Toronto like I want to clear more avenues for him to play as much as anything Let's just flip back to the heat beforefore we get out of here What's like a realistic outcome. for this team next year. Obviously a lot is still to come in the offseason, but as we're looking at the landscape just in the league overall, maybe specifically in the east like Is a a good bar just like top four seed in the East this year or are you already thinking more Well lets let's play out the string here in terms of the teams. Who do we think the top six playoff teams are in the east because that's kind of an open question, is it not? It is. And despite the fact that the Kicks, I think will go in as the presumed favorite, like they still have a lot to figure out in terms of their bench because it seems like they're going to lose A lot of guys here Mitchell Robinson and they moved around in the draft so much that they might not end up with an actual player from this draft in part including them moving one spot back and just getting a clump of cash from the Lakers. I haven't seen this in so many years because they I have to assume that they didn't want to make this pick. We're trying to get like seconds or whatever out of it And they ran out of time. And so they just went through Lakers like give give us a twenty bucks in your pocket and you could just pick ahead of us. I think they ended up doing some of both. It was like they tradeed down for the cash originally. then I think they tradeed then tr thirty for seconds and then maybe out of thirty for more I think they ended up with like five second round picks and the bag of cash. And so they are as we're recording this, I think they have a thirty second pick and I think they're actually trying to trade out of that one. And the Celtics did this a couple of years ago But yeah, like the first trade was just likeh Yes. Okay I'll take a hundred bucks. But I think a lot of that is for the purposes of trying to keep Mitchell Robinson specifically. Like Landry Shammot may not be along for New York, but I think Mitch is the guy that they're trying to find the financial wiggle room to hold ono. Lander Samon would be awesome in Miami if that version I don't know if they can make that happen, but that that extremely true. Yeah Maybe there just won't be enough suitors for Robinson. I assumed when the playoffs ended that like he would have pick a couple of teams, but the Bowls, for instance, fill that gap. with Claxton and so we'll see what his market is. But I think the Nix will be back mostly intact. They'll have to figure out some bench minutes, but roably a good problem to have at this point. So we would say Nix Pistons, who knows what's going to happen with the Celtics this offseason, but I think whatever form will probably be good enough to be in that mix Calves And then it's an open question, how much is Ibede going to play I imagine the heat would be right there. That's probably where I would The swweeneny magic, how dare you M. I see you''reanging on the magic. You see that guys that guys glare. I think that's at least that's ten more wins at least, right? I think. Intense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the pacers are in that conversation too. I would put them right there in that clump It depends on what version of the haawks or the hornets you believe in as like a regular season team, whereere they going to net out Are they going to make a jump or they already kind of made their jump Um I it's got better I think they' be better I just I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that the he are in the top four. I think I think there's a bunch there's a wide range of outcomes, right? If you told me that the Detroit pistons slip to like fifty three wins from sixty And the heat jump up into like the fifty four, fifty five range and leapfrog them, that feels entirely plausible to me If you told me that the heap Janis has a season where like many in recent seasons, he's out for a significant portion of it. They don't have the depth to accommodate for that absence and they end up in the sixth or the seventh seed. I think that's totally plausible too. I think the best version of the heat is going to be quite good How often will we see it? How long is it going to take them to come together There' a lot of uncertainty around what their season is going to look like even a against a very uncertain Eastern conference field that makes me hesitant to say like, okay, they are a locket in top four kind of team I do think a lot of it will be dictated by injuries and the fact that this team doesn't have a lot of depth is also going to compound that issue with Janis because he's just going to want to battering Ram his way to the rim time and time and time after again. And so I do wonder like how much that's going to be a factor. But if he is healthy, if he plays sixty five games, seventy games, like this is the team that's just going to grind out wins Yeah and he's going to probably be better. And so I'd say top four is a reasonable expectation with the hope of being a better playoff team which they have a little bit more time in between games I think the hope regardless is like you're going into a second round series with a real chance to win. And that's that's a place the he have not been in a long time. right? They have been kicked around in the play in. They've been just summarily swept or dismissed out of the first round I can't remember the last time that the heat had like an honest to goodness chance in a genuine competitive mid round series. And so if they can get back to that level, that's a huge step up for the franchise. that's a return to form for Yan is certainly getting back onto that kind of stage. and I would look forward to seeing it. I hope that's the version of the heat we get. That's kind of where I landed was Yeah, feisty second round. We have a chance to win. I just think in terms of the if you look at the way the playoffs stress your optionality down your, you know, it's like you mentioned the deb, things like that. It's like where are they going to go once the chest pieces start to move and the adjustments are going to be made, I could see some strain coming because having Yana and Bam is that he's such a dominant proposition that it's almost you have a great chance of winning a first round series as it is. And I just think once the once the capable team start moving the pieces around, I could see the strain of their depth being being an issue. So I'd say second round is. Yeah. This is the typical trajectory of a team that gets put together on the fly where the first season ultimately is a prelude to the second season where they have the time and the off season and the money and perhaps the resources to go fill in the connective tissue that makes a title team. like a team like the Spurs or the Thunder are so young that they can go out and buy that like those sorts of guys because their primary guys are typically making so little money. when you have basically they're trying to form a big two plus whatever else, it's just a little bit harder and it's going to take another oes. what happened with the big three in IA to begin with. before we get out of here Any other moves You want to see this off season. feeles like there aren't a ton of big ones on the board other than what we talked about. Jalen Brown. We'll see what he ends up doing, how many Twitch streams he ends up doing between now and the publish of this podcast. LeBron, obviously, maybe Kawai. is there anything else Honestly, the Lebron one is the big one for me and specifically an outcome where he is on a team that's not the Lakers. And this does to your point earlier, Justin, feel like yeah, we're going around the carousel one more time with this intellectual exercise of could he be a calav or could he be a warrior or whatever This one feels more real to me for some reason. and it feels like not only are we entertaining the idea There are like five what feel like realistic, plausible outcomes as far as places he could go That's it. that's a A lot to wrap your head around as far as a player who could be A bunch of different things to a bunch of different teams who has shown a willingness to adjust to accommodate for other stars. like I just kind of want to see a proper one last ride for LeBron that's not just can I fit in with this Lakers team that's still kind of steering in this other direction I don't know if it's necessarily like superar level, but it's definitely a guy who could affect the highest level of levels of winning and it's, you know, we it's tr Treay Murphy is the Treay Murphy going trade ever going to happen? It seems like that the stance softened a little bit on that in the intel that was coming out around the draft. So night to.