Jericho on Career Eras and Acting

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Services not available in all areas. Cold open question of the week, has What up, shoes? What's up, man? I had like a different question. And then I was just like getting hyped about the NBA playoffs this morning and I was just like it's a question occurred to me. I was like, We have to have asked this before. But I don't know what the answer is. So let me ask you this way. Okay. Victor Wimbanana. The alien, as some call. Амна аскіню The the wimby of of pro wrestling. But what would be? Conceptually. The wimby of pro wrestling. I'm glad you asked this because this is definitely something I've been thinking about for a long time. It kinda feels like tall people are at an advantage in wrestling, right? Like All the tallest guys you've ever seen in wrestling have never been like world beaters except for Andre the Giant, right? And that was, you know That's a whole different era and a different era different archetype, really. I mean it's The friendly giant. For the wrestling nerds listening to the show who do not watch basketball or partake in NBA basketball, what makes Wemby so Alien like. is that he has all the skills for a body that he's probably not supposed to have. Right. Yeah, he's seven six and he and he but he can do anything that a six foot tall guy can do. Yes, fluidity is probably the best sort of thing. So I think a wrestling version of Wemby would have to be fluid in many styles. It's also a one man defense for a whole team, which is a which is like w So you're so I guess you're answering the question, but like, yeah, what's the body type, what's the skill set, what's the Got a factor in Mike skills? Because that's part of pro wrestling. Like what would be the alien. Yeah, but I have to be able to look at you. Yes. And you still have to pass the airport test. That's not to look at you and be like, How the fuck do you this become your job. So how so what does that look like? Is it is the ultimate is the ultimate warrior the wimbi like visually a wrestling wimby? Or is it or is it Andre the Giant or is it Like who is the most physically Stunning. The ph a physically impossible wrestler. What would he even look at Brock Lesnar? Brock is close. I think Brock is close. Like When you watch young Brock stuff, like when he was like Comically athletic and just like explosive as all hell. We'll probably never see an athlete that good be a wrestler. You know what I mean? But Uh uh he he might be the closest like body type. Like you have to be strong, you have to be fast, you have to be able to do sunset flips, but also lift up. Six hundred pound dudes and twirl them. Like little children. You know what I mean? Like Brock is already the freak. So so so the Wimby of wrestling has to sort of outdo Brock. It's gotta be like slightly taller, stronger bl Brock or something. Like it's gotta be like Brock, but he's six nine. Yes. And he's like s and and is and he's like six six from shoulder to shoulder. Yeah. And his and his finishing move is like a Phoenix splash or some shit. That's it. It's like Brock. It's like it's like larger Brock Lesnar with Kenny Omega's ring work. Right. Yeah. Yeah, basically. Like we need a six eight, Kenny Omega. And and Macho Man Randy Savage promo skills. Exactly. If you're out there wrestling wrestling if this guy is out there, you mean if there's a guy out there who wants to be the Wemby of wrestling, all you have to do It's be six foot eight. Mm-hmm. Wrestle as good as and as explosive as two thousand ten's Kenny Omega. And be a strong comically athletic as Brock Lesnar. That's really just it. Yeah. Sprinkle in some Macha Man promo skills. Buddy You will be the face of the of the league for a long time coming. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Is Obu Femi the closest Is Oba Femi the closest thing we have right now to a br to to the to a to an existing unicorn in wrestling? He's pretty close. I think what he for what he lacks in uh The the aerial ability he more than makes up for in the promo skills. Like Oba Femin right now. Oba Feminie right now is a better promo than Kenny Omega. Ever. Wait, I wanna talk about I wanna talk about his I wanna talk about his ring work just a little bit, but let's just start the show. This is a conversation. Welcome to the Mazman Joe with Kaz. How you doing, buddy? I'm good, shoes. How about yourself, man? Good. I keep forgetting to say this at the beginning of the show. I have a new book coming out this summer called Why Hulk Hogan Matters. It's available for pre-order on Amazon or wherever you want to pre-order it right now. So please go do that. Those pre-order buys. Make my publisher like me better. Uh, so you know, give me a soft. You're way too humble, bro. Uh you're way too humble. You got the the byline that the uh the lower third under the Hulk documentary about you know what I mean? Author of Why Hulk Hogan Matters. Yes, yes. David Schumaker has wrote Written Very W some of the most important Um Um knowledgeable And wise books in the history of pop culture brush. Well yeah, I mean just I mean The the wr the writing on the ringer obviously goes without saying, but the books, obviously. There's there's very few wrestling books that I've cut through. Um, you know, not just wrestling fans, but wrestlers themselves. I appreciate that. You've done it. You've done it many times, so can't wait to Even though even though the subject is I think the subject makes it more interesting. You know what I mean? Like the fact that he's such a complicated ass dude that we've talked about at length. You know what I mean? I can't wait to check it out and congrats, man. Can't wait for can't wait for the world to see. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait either. Uh, you over brother. Yeah. My my my small cognitive ever did. My fa yeah. My I can't wait either. My favorite part is when the book comes out and everybody tells me all the things I got wrong. You know, it's one it's one thing It's one thing that happens online you can be like, Oh thanks and you can have your editor make the change. But then the book is like, Yeah, well we'll try to get that into the paperback edition. Let's hope it's Bruce Pritchard off that much. Bruce Richard was tight. I was like, that's the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. I don't want to know about it. So we were talking about I I have so much stuff I want to talk about today. I don't even know what wrestling matches have taken place. Um we're almost at the summer of trying stuff, so we could like get away with these heads of the thing. You can respond if not. I feel similarly about Oba Fimi as I did with Trick Williams, but they're very different workers and have definit very different resumes and track records. But I but but this but to this this much is the same. I don't I d when when they arrived on the main roster, I w I was not sure if either of them were good wrestlers like ring bell to bell wrestlers. Trick I think has f functionally proven I mean you know Answer that question. Uh, I'm sure he'll still have a couple of stinkers with the wrong dance partners, but he's had a variety he's had a variety of similarly sized guys. Uh and and you know. Yeah. Oh my Fimi, I never had any question about whether or not they were gonna be able to like get good get interesting matches out of him. I mean, but 'cause with Oba Fimi, all you really have to do is have him power bomb dudes, you know, like it's not Like there's a w kind of a lower floor I mean a higher floor on Oba Femi, but I still didn't know if he was like good, good. But I think it really speak but I didn't even say it out loud because I think it really speaks to where the performance center is right now that like almost despite what you're d no matter what you see on T V, like, folks are showing up ready to work. I mean we saw like we see we're seeing fatal attraction as like the top Star is on Smackdown right now. I mean, what did I say? Fetal toxic attraction? I can't believe I got it totally wrong. Fatal atr fatal toxic yes. Fatal influence. Yes. Yes. There's a combination of Everything that Be right with one word missing. Should they have taken a pause and maybe renamed the group prior to their main roster debut, or is it just Is the name's ridiculousness just part of the joy of that trio? Think so. Think so. Fatal in the It should sound like a nineties uh movie that comes on on the USA network. Yeah with the silk stockings. What is a fatal influence? Like some it's like being encouraged to Die? Ha ha ha. Like toxic attraction, you get it. Fatal influence is like what? Okay, anyway. But the I just wanted to say it, I mean the P C's really prepping these people for for success on the big screen. You know, or on the in the big arenas. Yeah, I mean I don't think they really need us to to So uh To out the success of the of the performance. Oh no no. We're we're obligated if we're gonna get our check if we're gonna get our check this week, we got it. Let me sign that. Hold on. Got it. All right. All right, we check those boxes. Um, nah, you know what? More than just being able to like wrestle on the first couple of weeks of being on a main roster, like the crowd knows who you are. Like more than Whatever, like I know Fatal Influence could wrestle really well and J C Jane, you've been singing her praises for a long time, how great she's been. The fact that the crowd reacts to them immediately. biggest testament of the performance center. It's like, yeah, you might It's it's odd. If you are a wrestler And you are trying to break in. And you can either paid a lot of money to go wrestle for AEW or Go to the performance center for pro Reportedly a lot less money. Now at least you have Some proof of concept of why you take the less money I don't know. I'm sure there's still I know they're still doing main roster and and and PC contracts, but I don't know Even anecdotally what they're I mean, I guess I could find this out. What they're doing with, you know, the big established stars. You know, did Julia have to sign a developmental deal that paid her significantly less did you know, whatever. Um, that Ethan Page by the way, Ethan Page is another one who I mean, he obviously had a huge career before WWE, before the P C, but Got it. Pay-perview match for the Intercontinental title. Um Uh, after having been on the main roster for about seventeen minutes. So uh I mean it's You're right. I mean it's I I think that there's Um I will I will say this. It the I mean the performance center is undeniably a force for good. I mean in terms of like training wrestlers and making stars. Um If you're somebody like Ethan Page, somebody who has you know like um Uh like like Ricky. Like Ricky's saying it's like it like The time the P C Blake Monroe the t I feel like the it we've yet to be seen with Blake Monroe or even Ricky Saints but like It it feels like the time in the PC even for them is really pay off. You know? I mean it's there was a time where you'd say, like, Well, it'd be so much cooler if I just appeared at on an episode of Raw out of nowhere, like, Yeah, okay. Just in terms of them knowing how to present you when you show up, having everything together. Having the whole machine behind you. at least it for the few moments it you know, your debut, I feel like it's really worth it. And like I said, all these dudes are ready to work, you know? Um And more than that, I don't think it's I think it's more than just being ready to work. You're not just training the wrestlers, you're training the audience. Like a lot of times you gotta the the P C is good for training the audience to know You know, it's kind of been like this backwards way of You know, training these You know, these future superstars that Uh It it it's like somebody I don't know, like this is probably the the the the big brained idea of the PC in the first place. Like, you know they kinda wanted to It is at some point once the sort of cannibalized the Indies. In terms of crowd reaction, I'm sorry to cut you off, but in terms of crowd reaction It is something very brilliant that they have figured out. Which is they got these die hard Hundred and fifty people or many fit in that. In the P C. For episodes of N X D, who not only Establish how to get behind these wrestlers. But they also do the homework too. It's not like all organic reactions that they like, you know that they that they whittle down into the perfect ch I mean, like listen. Will crew showed up and immediately These these wonderful human beings in Orlando were chanting, he's big, he's bad, he'll body slam your dad. Right? It's like they like they knew that that was coming. They had the chant ready. They've done their homework. And now if he showed up on the main roster tomorrow, there'd be fifteen thousand people you know, tonight there'd be fifteen thousand people in Ross doing that chant, right? The gate How crazy is that though? How crazy is that, like Those same a hundred and fifty people in the PC? Are essentially training millions of people at home. Yes. How to react to this person once they get on the main roster. Like here's their chance. Here's their big moves. Here's what they do when their when their song plays, like And look at WrestleMania. Three out four of the biggest guys out there. We're guys that like were trained not just in the NXT, but by the crow in NXT. Or the how to How they receive them. Yep. And th I mean listen you saw Fri uh Friday night on Smackdown. He saw that reception that Trick Williams got in South Carolina. Yes. One of those all time moments, right? I mean, like I would have loved to teleport in just for that. Yeah, just 'cause you got that's a sort of feeling that doesn't happen often. But yeah. Twelve thousand however many people it was, thousands of people all yelling whoop that trick at the top of their lungs like that's thanks to thanks to the PC. Yeah. Now that we're saying this out loud, I'm sure that they've a hundred percent thought about what if they just had ringers inside the p the PC for every single taping. Like they could be ringers. Yeah, but I mean we know that a lot of them are real people, but like WWE's had to have thought about like What if we just have like twenty of our folks in there and like You know, torn up old Macho Man sunglasses, T shirts. And we just like they they practice the chants before the wrestlers come out. Oh man. I mean a lot of those guys aren't getting flown into the PC every week. A lot of them are Florida Natives, a lot of those dudes get to know a lot of these N X T guys like pretty intimately. You know what I mean? Like Who's to say there aren't plants? Or eventually like essentially. plants, you know what I mean? Like who's to say, like, yo Trick Williams doesn't go up to the crowd, it's somebody in the crowd like, Yo, I'm telling you man. This new song I got to start chanting whip that trick. For the beat. It's gonna catch on. It's gonna catch on, just give it a shot. Who knows? Who knows? But um Well how we get talking about the PC again? I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, I I do know, but we can move on. Can I say something uh that's not exactly wrestling related? Did you watch the Ronda Rousey fight on Saturday? Unfortunately, yes, I did. Unfortunately. It was it was so lit up until that fight, I was like, Oh buddy. 'Cause it had 'cause it ended so quickly? You got me. Well, okay, all of the matches ended so quickly, which w probably it should not come as a shock to anyone that like any actual student of the game, which is to say that like These matchmakers were more interested in like Like the clash of styles aspect of the st or the stories they could tell and inevitably When your talent pool is relatively small because you're may you're employing fighters who were not under full time contract to UFC or somewhere else. Yeah, you end it just by y it's hard enough to find people who can like hit make make the same weight. Let alone people you've heard of, and then once you find uh and put 'em in there, then like one guy one of the two is probably gonna be pretty freaking dominant. I mean it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that Ronda Rousey won That quickly 'cause you know. Her opponent was decade older and recently lost a hundred pounds. Gina Carano was Very important for the game. that shouldn't come as a huge shock. Um But the point but the what was really interesting to me was As a UFC fan, someone who's watched a lot of UFC and other, you know, MMA promotions over the years. Um was just how Regardless of the mismatches. Just how Well d just how fulfilling the whole thing felt. Um You know, I think AEW is Despite the fact that they're like clearly trying to do a different thing and at this at the start were very, very openly trying to do a different thing than WWE. I think AEW is that you could argue is like a proof of is like the f the the the the whatever the opposite of proof of concept is. It's a failure of concept in terms of y it it established the fact that no matter how much money you have and what T V deal you have and and you know you have all of the free agent wrestlers in the world available to you, you can't just snap your fingers and compete and and be the same as WWE, be on the same level. Doesn't take anything away from AEW, but like if there were no AEW, And and Raw is still on USA. Could Netflix do a wrestling version of that? I don't think so. I don't think they could do a one night of wrestling, even if they could get What would be the biggest match? Like If there was no i if they could get The Rock and and Goldberg or someone to write you know, whatever. Just like big, big s relatively free agent names, I don't think it would be the same. I really don't. I mean Netflix is a great promoter and has shown the ability. But I think it's I think it's hard to beat. The whole reason I'm saying this is UFC. I think Saturday night proved the UFC beatable. That they're like no longer like Not Would the world exist without him? I don't know, but that like y Netflix was able to pull together. A card that With the exception of the number of rounds that were fought. And even including that felt every bit like a big UFC show. Pretty wild. And also Dana White, the rest of the UFC brass have to be sitting there going, Oh my God, how do they like not only does it look good, but they're using all of the stars that we made and that we have discarded. And with good reason. Two, but like It's no longer the case that if somebody wants to keep going after the UFC career, they gotta go over to Japan or fight in like these like weird, you know, just like super small time indies. Now Being X U F C is hu is a moneymaker. Right? I mean now being the guy that got knocked out by whoever. It now you know, if you get k creamed by By whoever you could just go over to Netflix and have another big fight and and use that name coast off that name recognition. I don't know. I just thought it was impressive how close they got to the original, maybe even better than the original. Um And especially in an era, like I said, where like a lot of the UFC stars are not people that you're super familiar with. I mean, UFC's been a star making machine. But even they have run into the sort of Failure of the grind after a while. You know what I mean? Like it's just too many too much churn, too many big stars that are gone. People get the top and they immediately retire. You know, or they immediately you know, whatever. And it's it's uh It's crazy, but they 'cause they've made all these big stars. I was I was joking with somebody that like Chris Liebin, I don't even know if you remember Chris Leben, but he was on the Ultimate Fighter one and fought a bunch of UFC pay per views. Chris Leben was a ringside judge. On Saturday night. And I was like, Chris, I said their ringside judge is a more famous fighter than most of the guys who like headline UFC shows. You know? Like it's just the the it the star power is sort of wild. I don't know. That's just the thought I had. But it did make me think about what a Netflix non WWE Netflix wrestling special would look like. I don't think it would be as easy. to match as uh as they match the UFC. No, I mean I uh I think one thing we've all sort of realized in the Jake Paul era of prize fighting and watching people famous fight for free. Uh is that we wanna watch famous people fight. That's really it. Like it's not necessarily I mean, I'm sure there are incredibly talented fighter that are in the U of C right now that are probably have more skill than the guys that are just better on name recognition of the past, but Nobody really cares to watch the fight. I mean, it it g it it kinda shows you How much UFC this Netflix thing seriously that they announced Connor McGregor's return. Right. right during uh Francis Aganu's uh entrance. You know what I'm saying like right as he's Entering the ring, they they announced that, you know. The UFC's biggest star, mixed martial arts biggest star. is coming back for a fight. And he has a fought in almost What, a half a decade? Almost a decade? At least that fall in a long ass time. And They know a lot of people were gonna be watching this Netflix fight simply for the fact that it was on Netflix and it has people you've heard of before. Um, I think the general Casual fight watching public just wants to see people fight that they know. We just want to see famous people fight. Yep. And uh that probably gonna release some ratings in a few hours, probably after we're done taping this. It's gonna have some crazy number that the U of C's probably never even scratched before. But You know, it's it's it's interesting to see, like Does the evolution and and I know this has nothing to do with wrestling, but it kinda does with the whole TKO of it and Netflix of it all. No, it does. But is is the evolution of the UFC Seeing greater fighters or more famous fighters or people that like it's it's just interesting in watching. You saw what happen when when Brock Lesnar said he wanted to go to MMA, uh Dana White said no. When CM Punk said he wanted to go to MA, he got a faster yes. Dana White resisted that Call for a long time. Um I think I mean p one of the problems is that Dana White And this is to his credit. We all know who he is now, but we forget that he spent Over a decade. trying to save the UFC from being banned. Right? Yep. And w and when you're when you have you know the John McCain's of the world calling it human cock fighting and all this kind of stuff. And it's almost like when WWE was trying to get a P G rating on T V and they had to scale back to basically like less than a G. Just to convince everybody that they were really P G, you know? I don't think uh frankly, there's a lot of these former fighters that I think Dana White wouldn't have he had as many reasons for not resigning him, but I believe that some of them would have been seen as as reckless people to resign, and that's me something that Dana White can't really mess with. You know, like you can't sign I'm not saying that any of these people were. But like I mean the the story that I always heard, no idea if it's true, is that he like signed Chuck Liddell. They he Chuck Liddell just finally, I think, had his job eliminated at TKO, or maybe it was when they took over. But like Chuck Lidd was employed as an EVP there or VP or something for like, you know, so long. And what people would always tell me is it was to keep Chuck Liddell from going out and taking fights when he was like, you know, in his fifties. You know, it's just like we're gonna keep paying you. You can't go do anything else. You sometimes have to be You know. the good angel on the shoulder of some of these older fighters. But I'm saying there's some of these old fighters have taken way too many pops to the head. Who I'm sure would you know, would probably like I'm sure Dana White is smart enough to know if he had a legends fight that started off every pay per view, it would b it would bump the rating. Right? But like you can't do that. You can't do that because it looks like you're doing fucking bum fights. You know, like you kinda are, because on top of that, like the whole reason why This Netflix and MVP, you know, mixed martial arts even has an audience because you don't pay your fighters fairly. Okay. Well, I think it would happen regardless, but yes, the paying thing is a real thing. I just want to make one point. 'Cause I'm sure UFC and TK TK will ha will take exception to this and try to play down Netflix's success or welcome, you know, whatever. They're in a they're in a conflicted position. But I just want to say this. There was a lot of talk about wrestling wrestlers unionizing. We weren't here last week. Sorry, guys. At the end we didn't do our second episode. uh life intervened. But there's a lot of talk about unionization. I'm a longtime proponent of wrestler's unionization. Especially in a world where WWE is Is Uh Ma you know, has has basically like a set contract rate, like we were talking about for a lot of NXT performers. There's sort of a set contract for a lot of for you know people coming up to the main roster. There were some talk that they were trying to normalize and and like a a s a ceiling. You know, with some of those contract renegotiations they did to sort of w and again it was a it was a Ballpark hypothetical that a real legit person told me. But they were just like I think they just want everybody's salary to max to cap out at seven fifty. Um In a world where all where there we' where WWE is standardizing contract numbers, Jesus Christ, why not have a union? You know, I mean the good I mean, obviously Roman Reigns seeing Punk go de roids, they're making more than seven fifty, they're not being asked to renegotiate. But the with the problem with the union is always the top guys, right? Because the thing with the top guy, and it's not just in wrestling, if you know a genius, if you know a a billionaire, if you know someone who is just like this most successful in the world by either by reality or by product at what they do. Like if a real idiot invented a you know, an alarm clock that made a billions. Like the still anybody in that category. They're always on some level proponents of the free market, of like, you know, uh of of you know unbridled capitalism because they think everybody should be able to have the success that that they had. If only they had worked hard as me, they would have it, it all works out. But that's not true. It doesn't work out for everybody no matter no matter how hard you work. And I just wanna say I'm I'm droning on too long. But for all the people on the other side who say, you know, let capitalism do its job, you know, like whatever. This is just capitalism. You know, what are you gonna say? Ca we're a capitalist country, what are you gonna do? What happened on Saturday night That was fucking capitalism. Capitalism is not unbridled success without competition. Capitalism is somebody walking into your market and saying, hey, I can do that too, and doing a better job than you with the with the success with the groundwork that you created. Right. So U F C T KO for all their pro capit capitalism cheerleading should be just should Theoretically, philosophically, be like, Congratulations, Netflix. You really did it. You did some capitalism right there. But you know, of course they're sure they're pissed off. Anyway, it was a good show. It was a good show. The short matches didn't bother me at all. Some of the there's a couple where it was just like Yeah, this is getting a little bit too Rougher This sort of mismatch? There would be Diaz out there to get bloodied up for our entertainment. Name Diaz who who you know. He's like John Moxley. It's like he's gonna bleed. He's like Ric Flair. He's like you like blow on his eyelids and they br bust open. Uh whatever whatever whatever in the back of his head of the plaster that they use whatever plaster that they use that paste his face back together every time he's out there. Oh God. It could it could plug up concrete on the street, I promise you. Like every time his face comes back a little bit more like clay face, like Like uh what's the dude's name from uh Which one? Oh my gosh. Uh Clayface is the right comp, but I'm trying to think I'm trying to wonder. Well Clayface is one, but there's the other one with the what is touching remember the movie when he's like touching your face? Like Oh my God, you're beautiful. That he's she's blind, the girl The mask? The mm hmm. It's like that. It's like every time he comes back, it's like yo, they just put some more shit on his face. Like it's like you can poke it and it's gonna bl it's gonna bloody. It's like he has so much That was the secret of it. That was a part of the mask that you didn't realize. He was just a very he was just a legendary cage fighter. It just put in a lot of reps. That's why he looked like that. All his staff. Cauliflower ear. He just had cauliflower face and like and staph infection instead of blood. It was just that's the way you look. It was such a it was such a it was it was hilarious. Like the stats they had up for Nate Diaz was like Founder of BMF title. Thirty ninth Professional Fight. I'm like Yeah, they're not showing his record. It's funny, it's it it's funny, there's almost like a Like if you have the marketing component down And in Netflix has certainly helped by the other fights they've put on and by and frankly by the by the, you know, Jake Paul business model in general that people are sort of like used to going outside the normal subscriptions or like you know, just they're used to big cards popping up again for the first time. The general consumer is used to it for the first time since like Tyson. You know, I mean they just like whatever and So everybody gathers around the fireplace or whatever to watch to watch this fight and I think it could be Super successful. It would be funny to see What a Netflix backed if there was no WWE involved, no AEW, at a Netflix backed pro wrestling mega event would look like though. Yeah, just the biggest stars of yesterday, which are mostly still under contract. But like could Netflix have gotten the bidding for the John Cena's last match? You know, if they were just like You really want to do your last match there? You sure? Because we'll sign you to a tin movie deal with Netflix, you know? And like th that could be It could have been pretty interesting. Anyways. Um, should we talk about wrestling, where it changes? Yeah. Let's do that. What's going on in wrestling? I don't even know. Oh, I have some wrestling to talk about. DC? Darby Allen, who I've who I've been singing the praise the praises. Whose f whose praises I have been singing. Ever since he became the champion, and for some time before that. It feels like he like passed out mid match on Saturday. Did you see that or that match, or at least a clip of that? I saw the clip going around online. He's fucking losing it to MJF. There w there was a point where I was there was I don't know if I said it out loud, but when I was when I was when I was So over the moon about the open challenge. I was just like, Well you you can really only do this if you're only doing it for a month or two. You know, if you're really doing every dynamite and collision. You know, it's like this is not sustainable. So I guess they they're already telling the story about how he's gonna lose the title back to MJF. I was fucking enjoying this thing. Here's the only here's the one thing I don't get. I can suspend disbelief for an open challenge. Cause I don't always pay attention. Even though I'm the wrestling podcaster. I don't always look at the show previews unless we're recording that day, right? A lot of times I watch Dynamite r like cold. Turn it on. I don't know what they've announced. I barely have the audio up loud enough to hear the stuff for later in the show. I'm just constantly surprised when I'm watching Dynamite through the first time. He announced he's fighting Speedball Mike Bailey on Dynamite, which I'm all for, don't get me wrong. And he he was cutting the promo and I'm sure this has happened before, but he was just like Speedball, you want a match for this title, then you got it on Dynamite, and if I walk here with the title tonight, but like I'm sorry, I know this is so dumb. I can suspend disbelief. When someone says the open challenge starts now and then they wait and someone's music plays because there's this concept of like, Well, Speedbone Mike Bailey ran the fastest to Gorilla. Right? Like somehow he won the race. to get the number one contendership. But when you're announces in advance because the challenger has called you out. I have to ask. Where the fuck is Will Osprey? Where the fuck is Kenny Omega? Where the fuck is John uh uh uh John Moxley? Where the fuck is Hangman? Where the fuck is Swerve? Where the fuck is idiot Bandito, Bobby Lashley, like people who could really beat him. Like shouldn't the headliners just be like who who were literally trying to murder each other over a shot at the belt a couple of months ago? Shouldn't they just be like I would like a title shot, please? In K Fabe. They should. But they're not. You know, like I don't mind it because uh of the story that they're telling. Like I hear my rule. If the logic if if the logic failure Results in something I'm enjoying. I'm willing to overlook it. I'm willing to just be like, Oh, okay, like you know how everybody's going super hand to try and kill MJ. But it would be nice if there were like light I mean, I guess you could say Osper and Moxley have their own shit going like they all have their own shit going on. Although Swerve the shit that Swerve has going on Is very confusing because he Show up in Bandito's a man you know, Westworld. And Then nothing happened until they just got coincidentally announced as like first round opponents for the Owen Cup? I mean and that that was kinda odd. But aside from that, they all kind of had their own stuff going on. I get it. I get it. But it would be great if like You know. Kenny Omega answer the open challenge with Darby on like, you know, it with his like arm in a sling and just like already bleeding from the last fight. And Kenny Omega won the title and then And then and s and then acted like a baby face, even though he was gonna get treated like a heel. That would be a fun story. Right, where he was like, I what, I thought you guys wanted me to win. That's kind of the Sammy Zayn story, except he lost the title. Anyway, for sure. Yeah, but now that's the story, man. Like whoever ends up Taking advantage of a maligned MJF. I mean a maligned uh Darby Allen. is gonna get M J F level heat, so I get it. Like I'm I listen, you're right. I like what he's doing. If I'm gonna be a Kfabe nerd about it, I'm not Then you're then yeah, I mean I don't know why I don't know why yeah, why is he calling out the Ring of Honor talent Sammy Guevara. Yeah, I mean, I get to have a history, but like, you know. So I won't complain 'cause Sammy Guevara showed up, man. That was a that match was a lot of fun. That was a it was a that was a a good Good collision. Um What else? Anything else from from collision worth mentioning? N Willow beat red velvet, that was really good. Oh, I mean just b just kind of Uh oh, Ali Catch wrestled on Collision, which is really cool, and Kaya McKenna both Uh Both Indy wrestlers of some renown, but I love Ali Catch. It's just one of the greatest. Um, that was really cool. And I just wanna say Anthony Bowen's Maybe the platonic ideal For a guy you just throw into a cr a group because he's got nothing else going on, but does a great job of it. I guess like Anthony Bones is a perfect member of the op. The ops, who I don't he is is he an op? Or the is he a is he an ops? Is he one of the ops? He's an open. I'm gonna call him an ops But he we just throw him in there, there's no reason to put him in there. He doesn't have any storyline thing that makes sense for that group. No, he's perfect. He just like looks like Especially in A W. It's like if you just have one like jacked guy, you know? Like even not even like a tall guy. Just a guy who's just like a crazy gym rat. Like put him in your group. Make you just you gotta have one of those. Um Yeah. Um, but yeah, that was a whole lot of fun. Uh Wha w what was the highlight of Smackdown? Tri just Trick's Hometown Return? Tricks Hometown Return, you had Royce Keyes and Gunther having a hell of a time. Oh, what do you think about that mat uh you know, I couldn't help but watch that match and think How excited. But just try not to excite it, not like trying it score a point. But like trying to imagine how that match would have felt if it happened in AEW. Like if Gunther if Gunther had been fired in one of the in you know, one of those talent purges where it seemed like they were letting everybody go. And showed up in AEW, then people would be so excited about like Walter versus Royce Keyes, 'cause it would be Freaking Andre versus Big John Stud of AEW. You know, I mean these two like giant dudes who can actually go Um That said, the fact that it was happening in WWE, I was kind of very interested to see what It would look like in the ring. And I thought it looked really good. I thought Royce is certainly r I don't know He was so he was he was out so much with injury and AEW and and Had to wrestle such a big man style. Again, I'm not exactly sure. I wasn't sure what I was gonna get from him. Man, that guy's got Uh has done a lot of work since I really paid hard attention to him. He's got all the weird the little transitiony shit down. He's got moves at different levels? Like Depending on how his opponent collapses into the corner. Like it's he's almost like a like an arcade game character. Like he's got a different attack for high, medium, and low. You know what I mean? Like he's it's very just like well considered pro wrestling. And he's certainly not a gunter in terms of ring work, but he hung. Like yeah, I thought that match was really good. What he and and by the way, what a beautiful way to s to set him up as a main event player. Just to take Gunders title match off the table for less than an episode of SmackDown, give it back to him. But along the way we get Royce Keyes shoehorned into the conversation, which is great. We do what did you think about that that whole thing? Um I'm always just a fan of using logic. You know I'm saying and I I like to think that wrestling is a is a T V show about a sport. Uh so when there's a contract signing Shouldn't anyb like if if the contract's just there and you have a pen. No. But it has to have been. Why shouldn't you just be able to walk up to the there are certainly been times in wrestling history where that happened, right? Yeah. Technically, if you want me to get really boring about it, well that the your name is typed underneath the line where you signed. The two things happened. I'm just saying if you're na I can't like I like if I was like signing a new deal with the ringer, you couldn't run in and like body che you know, like like body check me and sign your name there. Like they're like no, you're not the person we've been negotiating with. But I also think that it has to do with uh Wha again, K Fape speaking. If it's a contract signing, I feel like what the ch the champion has what power of attorney over these contract? Like he's the one who like who approaches or is approached first. Not power of attorney, but I but yes. Right of first refusal. There you go, right? So like if somebody Yes. If if he if he has a contract offer with Gunther and Gunther refuses to sign it. It's kinda like if I have a like if I have a job at uh the frickin Sports Illustrated. And the ringer doesn't want to resign me and I'm sitting there waiting for it, you know, like Yeah I should be able to just go to Sports Illustrated, right? And If I'm cool with the people at Sports Illustrated, like I if there's some legal bumble jumbo, I'm Royce Cheese. Cody Rhodes is my man. I should be able to hit the code, y'all be like, Yo. You don't want to fight Gunther, I'll fight you. Go and go and scratch that name off and put mine on top. I'm sure that played into it a little bit. So that's why I like that part. I like when you could use just some silly wrestling logic. Contracts now that's supposed to work? And be like, Well yeah, of course you could just walk out and just sign your name on a paper and the book. If I okay. Th that the the contract thing great, great Kf question. In K Fay though. It's not that shocking that you wouldn't come I mean, yes, somebody should run out and try to sign it. But it's crazy that people in Cayfave spend all this time talking to general managers when all you have to do to get a title match is like go hit the champ with a chair. Right? I mean that's always been the thing. All you gotta do is make a shocking run in. Attack the champion and he's and he's morally obligated to fight you at the next pay per view. I mean, that's just the way it works. Um But yeah. Yeah, there's a l I mean there listen, there's a lot of stupid questions out. Um that's why we love pro wrestling so much, man. Um I thought but but you but you what do you think about Roy what have you thought about Royce Keyes on WWE television so far? His presentation has been something where it's like He's he seems like the the test uh The test dummy for W WWE content outside of what happens on TV. It's like they're not really telling you his story. Like they don't really have a story to tell from AEW. They're always like make make references to like These videos that they shot, or like a podcast that he sat down with Stephanie McMahon, or You know it's almost like a relationship with Jacob Fatou. It's like you gotta like read the footnotes. You know? It's like if if you wanna learn about this, you can. And we'll put the information out there. Yeah, like It's like he they're using him as a way of being like, all right, how can we get this guy over Without necessarily giving him all the T V time because like other people need it. So like they use these little tricks throughout like the T V shows and the podcasts and the interviews. To help sort of like shape who the who what kind of guy he is, right? Like The fact that like I didn't need to see the interview. to know that like there's a level of respect that he has for Cody and Cody has for him. without even knowing, you know what I mean? Like that that w w which made that make sense, you know? Um So I would say man like No. Still a work in progress, you know what I mean? Like still you know what I mean, still coming around. But The fact that they've involved him in stuff with Jacob Fatu The M F T uh Solo Sokoa They' Cody. Like They're they're positioning him in a way that like he'll be a an important player on SmackDown. Absolutely. Smackdown is Cody's show. And it feels more and more like Cody's show every week. When you got Ricky Saints, Jane Cargill. It's Vital and show but they let Cody hang around. Yeah. He runs the he runs the show over there, so If that's any indication of how Royce Keys is gonna be presented there. That's all you need. It's Cody's show. Dang. You can take the losers from SmackDown. And start your new Netflix promotion. Julia Keanu James. Ricky Saints, Tomatonga, Royce Keyes. I mean Mechan B Fab, the Miz. I mean there's they got it. It's weird. It's a lot it's a very Not young I feel like almost all those guys have had a cup of coffee in AEW, though. Wasn't Tom in AW for a hot second? No I don't think so. I think it's I think Ricky Rocky Romero But I I c I I don't know. Um But yeah, I d anyway, good good shout I mean, shout out to Royce Keyes and Gunther. I think Gunther was also a really good test for Royce about how he's gonna be able to work with big men, not who aren't necessarily monster big men, you know? The first time you put him up on his shoulder. What did you say? Yeah. It's nice to see Gunther work with other big men too when you overpower. It's always really fun. Um, but the first time you put Gunther up in his shoulder, there's a moment where I was like, Okay, let's let's see how much strain goes into this. And it w it was zero strain. And then and then he when he did the power slam I was like, Is he gonna be able to protect the head for somebody this tall? And he did it really I mean It looked terrifying, but he did it perfectly. And um And the spine buster is just a thing of fucking beauty. He did that reverse in AEW or did he do The power slam was his finisher in AEW, right? Yeah, it was like a running power slant off. 'Cause he does that still, but then he finishes like the Oklahoma version. Yeah. Anyway, I I think the the the sprine buster, it's like if you can figure out a way that you do a basic move that the way to make in a way that makes it look like feel like a finisher, then that's your finish, you know? It's it was uh God, it was so good. Um So yeah, I'm excited to see where they go with that. By the way, you're talking about all this other stuff. Remember when WWE had the second screen experience? Remember when they were pushing that really hard? Yes. Did I ever tell you that how I Introduce Stephanie McMahon to the concept of the sec second screen experience? Oh, I did not know. We'll tell you that story some other day. But um Yeah, I mean I know that the copyright issues there's so many IP problems with this or whatever, but It would probably be I bet there's there's going to be a new front in advertising, not just in WWE but everywhere, but in WWE it's really easy to visualize. Where there's like Basically just a Snapchat playlist. going on in a constant stream when you're watching WWE that just gives you thirty second clips of the relevant backstory. You know, like it's not just WWE clips, but you get to see the Royes and Jacob Fatu wrestling on the Indies clips. You know, you get to see all this stuff so it actually like layers and makes sense. You see Royce talking to Stephanie. You know, I think there could be you could do a lot of fun with that, but I don't know if anyone c business could actually do it. Anyway. Um well yeah. Uh, we got a big interview coming up. Um before we get to it, what else do we want to talk about? Any big news? Oh. Evil and EO Sky are officially married. He looks great in AEW I mean in NXT, by the way. Uh it uh it'd be interesting to see how they evolved that character, but apparently I had no idea that they've been together for a long time and they finally uh tied the knot. Now that he they're both in the US. So congratulations to those guys. Yeah, very saucy wedding pictures, by the way. Love 'em. Low. How good picture of the How much evil have you watched from New Japan? Not a ton. Not a ton. Um how good does he have to be? For them to take the title as most talented wrestling couple. Oh gosh. I mean EO's doing a lot of heavy lifting. Right, I'm saying EO S guy EOS guy is the greatest I mean those guys frankly I think you rank her above Bianca Belair at this point. Because just 'cause Bianca Bellar is such a question mark, no offense. Um, but I'm even trying to think of men who would be on that level. I mean I guess Will Osprey is married to um to uh what's her name? The brawling bird. Alex Winsor. I mean, yeah, I guess there's a bunch of super talented people who are married to other wrestlers. But if Naruto's like a You know. B plus they might take the cake. It's very polarizing and ring style I know, but still. I mean Seth and Becky probably Punk and A J. Those are some heavy Heavy shoes to fill as far as most talent. Well, just in terms of ring work. I mean, obviously Seth and Becky are Becky's yeah, Becky and Seth, I'd say. You know? Wells. I mean Becky Lynch is the greatest female professional wrestler alive, probably, but in terms of just bell to bell. I don't think she's nearly the same level as Eosky. Mm. You know what I mean? Just ring work wise, which is very, very good. All right, let's run run through some other news. Baron Corbyn. There's been rumors about a W W return and the latest rumors is that he might be Danhausen's giant Danhausen friend? I think they're gonna uh bring the gingerbread cookie back to life. Oh no no, you're right. The the dr the gingerbread man. Mm. So is he wrestling as the gingerbread man or is Baron Corbyn dressed as the gingerbread man? You know, I don't want this to be one of those things that like we take entirely too seriously that never comes to fruition. Someone that's like, Wait a minute, I thought he was supposed to be it You're telling me you're gonna do an exorcism on a dead gingerbread cookie? I'm willing to see this out and see exactly where where that goes. So uh and I don't want I don't wanna disappoint myself if it ends up being something that's not Baron Corbyn. So yeah, I I wanna I wanna see where this uh Danhousen gingerbread man exorcism. Takes us first. Would you be excited just in the abstract about a Baron Corbin return to WWE? You know, I always thought he was a little over hated. You know what I mean? Like over hated, not overrated, over hated. I think he was a little over hated, man. Like I thought Baron Corbyn Baron Corbyn was I kinda think him and like Austin Theory were like The last of the McMah guys that kinda got bad raps after like the change of You know what I mean? The regimes. You know what I mean? And You know, I always thought was uh at least a future WWE champion. You know what I mean? Like he won money in the bank. He was like the the constable. He was around the McMahons all the time, like Retired Kurt Angle, like Definitely in the in the class of like your Wade Barrett's and like Uh Ken Anderson's and people that you thought were like upper level mid tier upper level heels. I know this is really We might have had a world championship run in a different in a different time, but who knows? Um I know this is really obvious and I'm sure I'm not the first one to say it, but I didn't understand they they have him in these like basically like leather pants. And the all the whole time like everybody's making jokes about how he has a little you know he has a little like f extra skin around his waist, right? He's like a little bit of Little bit of slab there because he used to be so much heavier playing on the O line. Like why would you not just put him in the the the Damian Priest outfit? Like why not just put him in the sp put 'em up the straps? You would never talk about it. He would look like a real badass. Also And I say there's a great sympathy as a bald man. There's like limited things you can do when you're like really a white guy shaving your head out of baldness. Right? And you don't have a giant thick beard. I can sympathize with that too. I've gr had a beard, as discussed on this show. seen on the but he he's got banter, man. That's what made him so good. Uh yeah, but you can't just be funny. He's got I but I feel like there's a I feel like there is a pro wrestling fashion consultant that could do him some favors. That's all that's all I'm saying. He's one of my favorite in in mid match shit talkers. That there was like He'll always just say something just mad r like when he told Apollo Cruz to go back to Rigavan. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, he's incredibly funny. He's incredibly funny. To be a guy that big to be have so much of your, you know, comedy entrusted to you on a show like that. Yeah. I mean he he's had a good run. But he did kind of reach a point where you're like, What are you gonna do with them? So Who knows? Maybe he'll be the gingerbread man. Maybe it'll be something else. Um Maybe they should just bring him back. Remember when there was the fake uh the underfaker that came out? The fake Undertaker? They should just cast Baron Corbin as f as as like f the underfaker Damian Priest. Put him in the mask and give him a wig and Damian Priest outfit and it'll be funny. Everybody'll laugh. Uh okay, uh also Big Bill is potentially a free agent? This is the question. Uh Is it time to This is crazy. This is a this is a wild thing to say. Bring back Enzo and Cash? Yeah. It was it was been time. It's been time. It's been fucking time. Like the next time I see Big Bill He better have Enzo next to him. That's I mean it seems to me that Enzo and Cass are the perfect T uh the T KO. Wrestlers. Like you could And I know there's reliability or there there might be reliability issues. I mean, who knows w the Enzo's situation is. I know it wasn't just the one Well it was 'cause he didn't talk to anybody about it, but I know there was some other stuff too. I mean, Enzo's credit, he's you know, he's dabbled in hip hop and everything else, but he's stuck with the wrestling thing. You know, he could've he's the fourth row flyweight champion, man. He could have gone and done something else and and he kept he kept at it. I think it would be huge. Enzo and Enzo and Cass Yeah. He opens every show, he helps Creatively. He's he's he's the creative mind with four throw up a West Side gun and smoke deser and all those guys. He's gotten his life together, you know what I mean? Like I don't know what happened to to to, you know. Outside of what was reported? to why he was released from WWE, but like You'd be hard pressed if if Big Bill. Cassidy whatever's real shooting name was Big Cass. returns WWE or has an opportunity to return WWE. This is his best shot. His best shot isn't to get back to the big to the big stage. Isn't by himself. It's with So I mean look great, there's a world listen, Enzo and Caz at their peak. And I'm talking their main roster peak, their remember the Enzo cutting a promo without a microphone peak, the the I mean just the And they're absolute apex. It was easy to imagine a world in which they like headline a pay per view. Now finding a the match finding the match for him is a little bit unconventional, but think about the the the various in which You know. The New Age outlaws were deployed in the Attitude Era or whatever. You know, like th you'd have to be a little bit more interesting about the way you book them. But I think there's such the such huge such star potential there. I think that that's gotta happen. All right. Um What else? What uh is there is there any is any other big news? Oh, did you see that uh Rusev and Gangril are starting a wrestling school in Nashville? Did see that. What's your the we would you trust your The fuck if I though. I don't know. They were friends. The fuck. Uh Gangr Gangirl trained Rusev, actually. So it's a teacher student thing. Would you would you trust one of your friends To go train under them? Rusev's great. I've never met Gangrell before. I assume Gangrell's great. He's been teaching for a while. He has those legit he has shoot fangs, which is pretty wild. I mean, that's commitment to a character. Like those are he got those like fang implants. Um he'd still gonna pop if he ever returned to WWE, which is a testament to They should have kept him around. They should have just booked him as something else because there were so many new gimmicks, like same guys with different gimmicks in that era, that it would be so funny if it was just like I'm shy the gang girl doesn't have like the boogeyman deal or just like every other year. Yeah. You know what I mean? They play the music. Everybody just loves the music, like What's wrong with that? Um Ben oh Ben Cruz is in the chat saying, always bring back the brood. No, not the brood. I think it'd be funny to bring back Gangrell or th if they just uh package repackage him on the fly. One week he's Gangrell, the next week he's like Dave Heath, wrestling uh uh you know, Park Ranger or something like that, but he has fangs because he can't get rid of his own fang. He literally has shoot fangs. That would be hilarious. All right now. Joining us live on the Mask Man line. The living legend himself. Chris. Jericho Playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with FanDuel Predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes, and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for FanDuel Predict and predict it from the couch. Offered by FanDuel Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 Plus, trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. This episode is brought to you by Boarshead. 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And now we're welcome to the Masked Man Show, one of my personal Favorites of all time, one of my icons, the living legend himself, Chris Jericho. Welcome to the program. Well, thank you, but just to start off, you have to watch Call Me a Living Legend because Larry Zabisco sued me once. Making making a t-shirt in WWE that said Living Legend Chris Jericho. And if you remember there was a short period of time when I called myself that. And I had to go to a um it called when you have to go like an arbitration thing or something like that an inquiry or whatever. And I was like off. And and some of the uh evidence that was presented was from Pro Wrestling Illustrated. I had explained to the lawyer like Pro Wrestling Illustrated is all made up. They just write whatever they want. So Anyway. That's awesome. Fifteen years later, I'm the living legend again. Yeah, you are. Well, to me you'll always be a living legend I mean, listen, I was a big Zabisco fan in his day, although I when I was growing up watching him, he was always the living legend 'cause I sort of you know, it was it was post San Martino feud. Even and I never but I didn't understand the history. I just had to take 'em at their word. There's probably a lot of people that watch Chris Jericho now. that were that that started watching Chris Jericho at some point in the past five years or ten years that don't have the same frame of reference for Chris Jericho that that I do. Does do you feel like With Social media, YouTube with all the archives online that Fans seem to know the Lion Hurt Chris Jericho as well as as well as they always did. Well the thing that's cool is that When you've had a career as long as I have. Yeah. Um There's always gonna be kind of the you know, I look at it like like like Kiss or the Stones or or a band that's been around for four Iron Maiden. There's the classic albums. Those are the ones that the majority might not like as much that other people think is the greatest thing ever. There's you know, there's different areas that people tap into and enjoy. And you know, whatever I if the Chris Jericho Career is a a skyscraper building And you got on the first floor and got off on the fifth, or if you got on the sixth and stayed on until the twentieth. Or if you got on the twenty first and got off on the twenty second, like whatever it is, if you appreciated my work at any time. I'm happy about that. And there are people that know the whole history of Jericho. And there are people that probably are just seeing Jericho for the first time over the last couple of months. And everybody in between. So that's and that's all good because that's the sign of having a long versatile career. But like you said, with with with social media. And Instagram. I mean, I'm seeing clips all the time that I've never seen before. I post one. I bet. Just a couple of days ago from a uh a a talk show I did in England in two thousand. In the UK. And I'd never seen it before. I barely I don't even know if I remember doing it. I just remember the time frame. That's cool even for me to see these clips from twenty five years ago and for all the fans, old and new as well. Um, do you what what you're talking about the kiss or the stones or whatever, it's like I d this isn't anything shocking, but it's like I'm a big like early Stones fan. Like you know, Beggar's Banquet's like the greatest album ever. And I could do without a lot of the eighties stuff, but like Start like the eighties were like If the eighties didn't happen, then we would the stones wouldn't exist the way they exist today. Like, do you have a favorite Not just a favorite moment in your career, like a favorite, you know. persona or whatever period that you that you would consider. But maybe one that gets underrated 'cause it was so important to you becoming who you are now. Well, whenever I get asked that, I always say the current version. 'Cause if I didn't then I'd be like, Yeah, what am I doing? But I I like the idea of what I'm doing now with with Jericho. Yeah. Just by by by not using that first name all a lot, it created this whole intrigue online, like, what's he doing? What's the idea? What's the reason? And honestly, it's like a self titled album. That's where I kind of got the idea from. Um I could create You know, a a dozen other uh nicknames, but how many more do I need? Everyone knows У Jericho is. And when you hear that name Then you can go. Remember whatever memories that you have on your own. So it really is like, you know, Metallica, the Black Album. You don't need to it didn't need to be calling that. You know who Metallic is, you know what's going on. The Beatles White Album. Same thing. So that's kind of what the idea is for for the Jericho era. And I like it. I like I like kind of what's been going on and kind of going with the flow and Seeing what what's working and what's not. Um When you're going through underrated Jericho eras? Gosh, I mean, I I think the wizard was pretty cool when I started throwing the fireballs. Yes. Um, that was something that I nobody had seen for years in pro wrestling. I just thought that was really cool to where We were in Vegas and I had to get um A magician's license for real. To throw a fireball because that's the rules that the commission has, which I still Which I still renew every year and carry with me at all times. So yes, I am a licensed magician. In Nevada. Um I think the early I mean, it might not be underrated, I think just because it was such a long time ago. I think the very first kind of iteration of of Jericho is kind of like Crybaby era of, you know, the the tantrums and the slamming the chair against the post. uh ripping off Dave Panzer's tuxedo. That was kind of the era where who is this guy? you know, the paragon of virtue and um all that stuff, you know. Raw uh sorry, uh Monday Night Jericho, that that era. That was a really good time, you know, and and people still bring up the clip of the man of a thousand and four holds, but there was a dozen other ones. I remember I went to the to the White House once. I went to Washington, D C and I was a conspiracy victim. And when we showed up, I thought the camera guys were gonna know what they wanted us to do and the camera guys thought that they Th I would know what would So neither one of us had any idea, so we just walked around D C and the White House and you know, we were filming me in front of the White House during this speech and we almost got arrested 'cause you 'cause you can't film the White House with cameras and stuff. So that was a good era. And then I also think the learning tree. Was a good era. Um, 'cause it was kind of really going left field and and really kind of Focusing on the haters. of of the world, which then made them hate it even more. So that might be a little bit more of a stone's dirty work. Yeah. Kiss the elder. you know, sane anger type of vibe, but but I thought that was that was a really cool one as well. So You know, I I I whether you like it or not, I've given one thousand percent every single iteration of Chris Jericho and there's never been one where I thought, Oh, this one's not gonna work. Let me Let me focus on it. Like everything that I've done. put a you know a million percent into it. Sometimes it doesn't work as well as the others. The intent passion and the effort has always been there. Um, I don't when you started when w when it was just Jericho, when you made your return. I'm gonna talk a little bit more about your return in a minute, but when I heard just Jericho, I just shook my head to myself because it was just like it was like when you made the return in WWE and didn't say anything. It's just like The most basic The most simple thing that I just know is gonna work the second I see it, and I'm just like I'm stunned that I haven't seen this before. I don't remember, you know, it's just it's gonna work for you. You must have like You you know, you have all these ideas, all these new like names for every iteration of your character. You have like a notebook where you come up with stuff that you're gonna use down the road. And here and I can relate this to your upcoming match. Your wrestling in the stadium stampede match. A double or nothing. Uh, this weekend, AW Double or Nothing on uh May twenty fourth. Um, live from Queens, New York, when you're trying to think of the moment that you're gonna stand out in a stampede match with, do you have a list of those and along with your like potential future gimmicks? No. Uh can I call you shoemaker? Yeah, call me shoemaker. Um no first name shoe, last name maker. Um You can't because we don't know Um What we're dealing with, right? For for stadium stampede. I'll never forget the first time we went to the T I A Stadium in Jacksonville. Um You walk out there and it's literally a football field. An empty empty football field. What the hell are we gonna do? Yeah. What are we gonna do? And and by the way. What is a stadium stampede match? Yeah. It's like being in the first elimination chamber. Yeah. What are we supposed to do? You can't go back and watch the famous elimination chamber from the Charlotte Coliseum in eight in four with Dusty Ro like, you know, it doesn't work that way. So We we will get to the to the venue earlier on in the day. And you know, having the experience that we had from the first one. And then the first uh Anarchy in the oh the dogs are going crazy. The Anarchy in the Arena was the first one in Vegas. Same thing. What's what's the difference between Anarchy in the arena and stadium stampede? I don't know. Yeah. It's what you make of it. We made them different and created Different kind of themes and ideas for both. Um, I I just saw something pop up the other day where I had a I think it was I don't know if it was a Falls count anywhere, whatever the rule was with Roderick Strong. About two years ago. It's the only time I've ever wrestled, Roderick. We didn't know what it what to do. We walked around the venue. We found this really cool stairwell with like a a Like a ledge on the side. And we fought on the ledge and people are they're gonna f like there's no way either one of us are falling. Yeah. We could We could fake it. So that that one stood out really well. So we'll get there early. We'll look around. Kind of know what we want to do. Uh, there's a couple of ideas that we've already had from kind of what we know about the place and for entrances and you know, you plan ahead for stuff like that. But the most exciting thing, just like we did with the very first one back in two thousand twenty one. twenty, whenever it was. Two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty. Just get there and Let's figure this out, man. We're here a day before. You've got, you know, if you think of some ideas and you better get up early at on eight o'clock in the morning on Sunday to the props guys to go get You know, ten thousand tennis balls, whatever the hell is we're gonna do. And you go from there. So it it's it's very exciting. Shoe. Because you are live without a net. There is no, you know, I could put together a match right now for you and I to wrestle and be like, do it. Let's do it. You can't do that with a stadium stand, not to mention There's 14 guys involved. Yeah. Yeah, but me, no one's listening right now. If you no one was listening, I wouldn't be doing the show. I appreciate it. When. When you're re when you're punching a dude through the crowd and into the back. Do you have any concept of when the camera is on? You I mean I do because I've been doing, you know, television wrestling for thirty two years. I think we started in Mexico. So you always kind of know when the red light is on and know what's going on. You know when there's cues. I'll always have the the the camera guy go like, you know, this or whatever, you know. Yeah. Cause I need to know, you know, or at least try. Cause a lot of times if you're in the midst of the fight, you're hoping if it's something good, they catch it. But that's another thing. Like the first Anarchy Arena was so batshit crazy that like like you didn't know. To film. So what then I would make sure to do is I'm gonna take some kind of a bump, I would really tee it up, and of course. You know, we have some semblance of order to it, but that could fall out the window in five seconds. But if if the order's working. You know and you know that I don't know where the hell we didn't see him that that that Eddie Kingston's gonna be walking to the ring with a gas can and pour the gas on me. You might wanna keep the camera on me and not on you know, Ortiz jumping off a ladder through a through a table, which I think kind of happened. Yeah. You try and You know disperse it. Any way you can. But it's It's a live movie. You know, the first stadium stampede, it was filmed. All that Now, granted it was filmed from 10 o'clock Saturday night to five o'clock Sunday morning that then had to be turned over and edited at 10, you know, at 11 a.m. Sunday morning to be done by 3 PM to have it in the system in time for the pay per view. But that was like a you know a twenty five minute filmed movie. In twenty four hours. The second one was half and half. We had to time it perfectly and right when we hit that 19 mark, we gotta be walking through the curtain to be fighting in the crowd. This one, I still don't know what we're gonna do because it's not pandemic anymore. We kind of there w the it there's just like I said, man, there's really nothing we can really say right now. until we get there and kind of figure out Some of the nuts and bolts of what we're gonna do. Um you recently made your return to a w wrestling. There was a lot, a lot. of rumor and innuendo around the pro wrestling internet. Um, that you were talking to WWE at the time. There was a widespread belief that you would sign with WWE at one point. Um What How much of that was real? How much like how how do was it was the return AEW always a given in your mind or or were was it really there was potential you would you would jump ship? Well the the interesting thing about about fans and and kind of going back to what we said earlier about having a career where you can watch anything online. is that fans, you know, in this day and age then form their own opinions. And then it becomes Law opinion spread. You know, so Whatever people believe or didn't believe, it's like I was n not ever a part of any of it. You know what I mean? Like and I think the best part was is there was so much speculation of what is he gonna do. That Either way, you know, with with the tribalism of wrestling. Nowadays. There'd be people happy about it and not happy about it and This is the worst thing ever and this is the best thing ever, and You know I I've never really Focused on on on Um that side of like this is terrible and and and it's never gonna work. 'Cause to me any anything can work and you always wanna do your best to make it work. And and I focus on the people who are excited about things. And the people who who want to be entertained and want to be happy and want to have fun. That's kind of the crow that I that I Focus on. So. It does seem more div for for the record, was there did you give an official answer? You said that the the rumors became facts. But you were a complete free agent. Can you tell us whether or not you had some conversations uh with other places? No, I I never said the rumors became fact. I said that the rumors became fact to the fans. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'll I'll leave that uh I'll leave that for another day. I like I like the idea of the intrigue. Yeah, no, I listen, your whole career has been about intrigue on some level. Um and I When you made your when you returned AAW, I got feelings, you know? It was like one of those things that I didn't know I needed and then you were back and I was so happy that you were there and I can't wait to see you. Um Wrestle At double or nothing. course, like we said, the stadium stampede match, like anything crazy could happen. You mentioned before that you've done it that so you you've you've done it before with some of some of your partners this time. Obviously the Bucs Um there there are a lot of people now in AW with some experience. But most of the b most of your opponents Are people that Or either relatively new to AEW or You just haven't crossed paths with a lot in your career? Is there o of this, you know, obviously Ricochet, your interactions with Ricochet have been gold. You know, you talk about like the wine Eric of cr era of Chris Jericho. Jericho I mean, uh Ricochet is sort of embodied a lot of that in in his AW run. Um Davis, Andrade, uh the guys and the dogs. Um I don't what's it like to work with you know Obviously these guys have big resumes but prior to coming to AW, but but is it is it a different vibe working with people who you're relatively new to? No, it's amazing. And that's kind of the idea, you know, that that's why I still love wrestling and still You know. feel that I that I'm doing it on a high levels because it's it's great to go in there with Ricochet. We've never crossed paths before. And once again, you know, you hear all the you know, you know, the the conspiracies about Jericho. My my goal is always to build my opponent. Always. And I think if you look and you really know the business. You can see that with everybody that I've been in the ring with. Um no once in a while it doesn't work the way you want it to, but once again, not by lack of effort. I think the stuff Ricochet and I have done over the last couple of months has been amazing. And I think he's he's a way bigger name. now than he was on March thirtieth, you know? Um and and it gives me relevancy Relevancy, relevancy? Relevance. I think they both work weirdly, but yeah. Because to work with with with younger guys and I mean obviously at this point everybody's a younger guy, but I n I my mindset is is is is is always set in What can we do to to make this the best possible show? Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I don't care. I care about making the best story possible. So when you talk with Ricochet, amazing gates of agony, I think you've learned a lot. The thing that we do with Hurt Business a couple weeks ago. None of us thought it was gonna get the reaction that it did. Yep. Like we've got something now. We we can now go back to Jericho and the Hurt business or Hurt sorry, Hurt Syndicate. Um At any time. And and you never know that. And I I've never I mean, obviously I worked with Shelton many, many times twenty years ago. And MVP as well, but the three of them as a unit, which I love from the moment they first came out. in W into AEW into now. I would love to do more with them. Yeah. Um Teamy with the Bucs and Kenny, we kind of did with a little bit starting, then Kenny got hurt. Boston and I have never done anything together. always against each other, you know? Um, and then you talk about the dogs, I mean I just text f Philli the day, I said Okay, so you mean to tell me I had to get kicked in the back by you twenty years ago, and now I have to do with your frickin' son beating me up? What the hell's the problem? You know, I remember David Finley uh Junior, I guess. We got Fit and Dave. I remember David Finley crying. When he was probably ten years old. 'Cit and I went to a draw. On W C W Saturday in Athens, Georgia or whatever. He was he was Furio at me. Because his dad meet me. So you know, Andrade I've never worked with. I mean Yeah. So the the all those guys It's very exciting. The whole team Uh I'm looking forward to doing if you whatever whatever tour you were on, if you had to go up and down the east coast wrestling fit thinly every night, you have done more work in your in that one stretch than most humans do in their lifetime. I can't even imagine. In some ways, but in other ways you've done less work. I mean, there might be a couple stiff kicks here and there, but guys like fit. are the guys that you know we learn from. Mm-hmm. You don't have to do anything to get crazy reactions. It's all character and where you put things and. Guys like Fit kind of helped me realize that. And then I'm able to to do that. You know? I remember I still remember with Jack Perry the the first time he worked after us, he was like, Man. I never realized how easy it could be. And that's what you want. How easy it can be if you know what you're doing to get reactions. It's like the Hurt Syndicate. If you look at the match we had, it was a great match with Ricochet and the Gates of Agony. If you count it the you know Crazy bumps. I betcha there might have been one, maybe none. Yeah. It was all Attitude and placement and intensity and just the uniqueness and freshness of the match. That's what you want. Yeah. You talked about everybody being younger now. I completely accidentally Saw you on the new show Margo's Got Money Troubles yesterday. Uh, it's a fantastic show that we that weirdly gets pro wrestling right in a way that very few, you know, crossover things really have. There's a scene where The m the the main character's dad is an ex wrestler goes to a convention. And you're in the ring, he ends up getting in the ring with you, but you're also I mean, they they they name you as Chris Jericho, but you sort of explain that he's You know, this is a former great two and and you guys mix it up. For a second. Um What's it like? I know you've got some other acting stuff coming up too. Um W what was doing Margot's Got Money Troubles like is there more of you on that show than just the one? And and what else do you have in the in the in the Hollywood pipeline? So I uh I auditioned for the part that Nick Offerman plays, who's the who's the dad of of Margot. Oh, okay, okay. So when I auditioned for that Um Uh because he's a pro wrestler and his wife His ex wife is a Hooters. Waitress, yeah. Well, my wife used to work at Hooters. So it's kinda like this one's made for you. So I did this audition, not really knowing. And um They gave it to Nick Offerman. He only won an Emmy. What did he ever do? But they really liked what I did. It was this really big time Hollywood casting director called David Rubin. who, you know, a while later called us back. And was like, We really wanna put Chris in this into this um series somehow. We really liked what he did. Let us think about it for a bit. And then of course you don't hear anything. And then gosh, months later they say we've got a scene. Uh for Chris. He's gonna play himself. And he's gonna be in a ring wrestling. And I was like, Yeah. I don't know. And he's gonna be in there with Nick Offerman and Nicole Kidman. I'm in. I mean, what do you need me to do? Like, come on, really? Yeah so so and and the scene they wrote it for me and it was longer. We filmed more and they cut some of it, which is Hollywood, but just the buzz being on that show. was unbelievable. You know, and it just got picked up for a second season. And you know, there's a possibility. uh that there'll be more, you know, Jericho and Jinx 'cause like you said, the seeds have been planted that Jericho and Jinx know each other. Love each other, you know, have a have a backstory. So if they want to delve into it, I mean It went so well that that it would it would be a blast to do. You know, and then it kind of led right into you mentioned other things. I just filmed Dexter. Oh yeah, I saw the pre the the the the preview for that that you're in. That's great. Yeah, that's cool. And then there's another really big show that hasn't been announced I'm gonna be on yet. But it's a big one. And when that one's on, that's probably the biggest part that I've played. And the next time I do your show We can discuss but That's how it works, man. It's just like wrestling or just like rock and roll. One thing, you know, I did Tracker a couple months ago, which is the biggest show on CBS Tracker. Leads to Margo, leads to Dexter, leads this next one. That's how you kind of like one two punch it. And and start a buzz. So That's been working really well for me as well. So kind of in tandem with this return to AEW. Uh, and then just doing this huge Fozie tour that we just did. It's been a really good spring, shall we say, for uh for for for for Chris Jericho. Totally sounds like it. We gotta let you get out of here. I w my my other producer who's not here. As I was tell as we were I was talking to him a second ago, he was like, Be sure you ask him about Nick Bawkwinkle and I just I Full disclosure, I just wrote a book about Hulk Hogan and of and and of course all these characters from Hulk Hogan's past spring out at you when you're watching millions of hours of tape. But Nick Bockwinkle is always one for me. I mean, an AWA Nick Bockwinkle is a god. Yeah. And and I forgot I had forgot that when you were wearing the suits and everything like that that that was your inspiration. Yeah. Do you have any other Any other wrestlers not just who you loved. But who maybe have inspired any of these eras of Chris Jericho in interesting ways? Well the suit and tie Jericho, which was the famous feud with Shawn Michaels um That was the highly influenced by Bob Winkle, the suit. Using big words to to make people feel stupid. And then it was a lot of uh of uh no no country for old men. Anton Shiger. Yeah who was played by um uh Hav your bur bird. Yeah. very quiet speaking and this is what's gonna happen. So that was kind of the combination of that. But I mean there's been a lot of different kind of You know y I mean the you know, the the for example the festival of friendship. Kevin Owens and I was meant to start out as a as an eighties David Lee Roth video. Mm-hmm and end as the Game of Thrones red wedding. You know, so so I'll take kind of ideas like that. Maybe not a certain th, but you know, like I said, Jericho. That's from Metallic of the Black Album, the Beatles White Album, like. Can I put into this sort of thing. To make it You know, um real to me, because if it's real to me, then I can really sell it to you. you know, really make it feel something real. So yeah, that's kind of kind of the mindset for for everything that I do. Um Not so much mimicking, but but taking certain elements. of of things and putting them all into a a blender and shaking them up and suddenly you've got this really cool persona that you've created with little pieces of all the your favorite ingredients of your inspirations. So great. Well, Chris, I really appreciate you coming on. You really are a living legend to me and I'm sure everybody listening to this, but You're a the the living is the important part. Uh you got a big match on Sunday at double or A W double or nothing. part of the stadium stampede match, which has too many other people in it for me to name, but it's gonna be I mean, these matches have really run won me over, you know, like it's nothing against the matches, but just I think that the unexpectedness of it kind of just you clouded my brain at the beginning. It's just like I don't know what I'm going into. So I don't know how excited it'd be. But like they're so fun every time. They're you k they're unskippable, right? You can't fast forward for a second. Because even if you're watching on replay, 'cause there's You never know what's gonna happen next. And Um yeah. It's become it's become a trademark for AW, one of kind of our cornerstones that we can go to at any time. Just same with Anarchine Arena. You know, that we have these matches that are exclusive to AW and that's one of the reasons why the company has grown and is so successful, because we've created our own identity in so many ways. I agree. Well happy to see you back there. Happy to can't wait to watch you Wrestle on Sunday. Chris Jericho or sorry. Jericho, thank you so much for coming on the Masked Man Show. Thank you. Shoemaker. Alright, thanks to Chris Jericho Kaz. Wanna get your plugs in on the way out? Yeah, you cash me on the hot on the seven morning tomorrow, every six to ten A. Every Monday through Friday. Brand new episode of Sub here in Brooklyn with Carmelo Anthony, special guest. Double check. Steve Novak is joining us and tomorrow I forgot about that nickname. He's awesome. And uh tomorrow, um, if you're in the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut area, tune in. To hot ninety seven at four PM with with Nessa as myself, Meryl, Funk Master Flex, everybody. We're in now to the official lineup for Summer Jam two twenty twenty six. Taking place at the Production Center in Newark, New Jersey. All right. So pull up. Should you go on? Joe Henry's playing, isn't he? Yes. The headlining act. Um Thank you, Kaz. Thanks for a producer, Bruce Baldwin. Thanks for E Pin Cruz. Thank you all for listening. Why Hulk Hogan Matters, available for pre-order now, please buy my new book. Uh that'll be my new catchphrase for a while. We'll see you back here later this week, humanoids. Peace Uh Mm.