The Reality of Viral Moments

Um now you guys have to promise to stay wide on me, please don't like show me what kind of democracy is. Because anything closer than that is personally offensive. And should be banned. I feel like that's a mid. Happy with a mid? Yeah, just don't go closer than that. None of this. No even like profiles sexy sort of side profiles. There's no sexy side profile. No, no, no. Look, I grew up filming myself, making my own TV show in order that I would come across the way I wanted to. Yeah. And every time I go on TV, it's bad. That's why I mean it's part it's not entirely the reason I don't go on TV, it's mainly because not I'm invited. But part of the reason is because I'm not in control and I don't like the way they randomly zoom in. Yeah, and they go, We're thinking about booking you for this. And you go, Well, I need to be in control of show me what kind of shots you're imagining. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. Are you editing? You're editing, right? Yeah, okay. I'm not editing, but it's been editing. Yeah. And swearing? Swearing's fine. What? What? Did you say no? I said fine. Oh, sorry, but you shook your head. Oh, I was just like, You went fine. Oh, that's confusing, yeah. Uncool. Not a problem. That was another problem, Shane. Yeah, exactly. Thanks, Adam. Hello, this is Adam Buxton of the Adam Buxton Podcast and other things. I'm gonna be on the Romesh Ranganathan podcast, and I'm very excited about it. Oh there's gonna be bants and quite a lot of boring speechifying from Oh shut up, Romish . We've got an intro for you, John Hero. Yeah, do it. And then you feel free to but you know, bat back anything you're not happy with. Okay. Uh my guest today is a comedian who was creating and producing his own comedy content long before the dawn of YouTube and TikTok? True. He's a writer with two memoirs under his belt. The latest, I Love You Bye , was a Sunday Times bestseller. Technically true. Yeah. Technically true. What do you mean technically true? I mean come on. Have you actually looked at the numbers for those things? Yeah, I have. I uh uh so so when when I thought a book out and they said to me great news, I said great. So it sold really well, and then they told me the number. I then became concerned for publishing as as a thing. Yeah. He's a radio host . Have been. Yeah. And the OG. So that's still your your sk in skill set, isn't it? Even if you're not doing it currently. Well I did a show on Virgin Radio the other day around my book. Yeah. Like a bit of publicity. We were filling in for someone and um on uh in one in some ways it felt like oh yeah I can still do this and in other ways it felt scary and weird and not as nice as podcasting. Well the live nature of it I find quite often Very much. He's the OG of British Podcasting. The original gangster. Yeah. He was hosted his award winning eponymous podcast for over a decade. A jingle master. He's now launched a music career releasing his debut album, Buckle Up. Buckle Up. But I tell you who isn't buckled up, my guest , Adam Buxter. How are you? I'm very well. It's so nice to see you. It's really nice to see you. I haven't seen you for five years. That's not true. That is true. The last time I think that we were together in physical space was February. When I came to your house? No. Nice house. Very nice. And we were talking about the fact that the pandemic was beginning to take hold in Italy. And we were Nervous. Well, we were sort of nervous, but you were joking about the fact like not about the situation in Italy, both of us were very sad about that. But you were joking about the fact like it better not come to this country because we're not gonna deal well with being told what to do and if we can't go out and all that shit, that's not gonna happen. No. We did buckle, didn't we? We buckled down. Yeah. Um yeah, it was bad, wasn't it? Actually if it's quite interesting to look at stuff that was being recorded around that time to see how uh blase people were about it. I I I j I I I listened to a podcast, I didn't listen to it, I s gotort sent a clip of me talking about what's gonna happen to stand up comedy as a result of the lockdown. And I was very chilled out about the whole thing. What did you say? Well, I said um I don't think they're gonna make a stop stop us doing gigs. And people had started doing gigs on Zoom. And I think I said something like the day I do a gig on Zoom is the day I stop this forever. And then I think maybe two weeks later I did three corporates on Zoom I've got a present for you. Oh. I've actually got a present for both of us, but um Which one would you which one would you Oh look at this one would you prefer? Or would you like both of them? It's the Docker cap. I mean you've got to have the m what is what colour is that? This is blue. Is that yeah, but how would you describe that other colour? This I would describe as light light maroon ? Yeah. Is that right? Can I give you a word, maybe? I'd love you to. Wine. Wine . That is not the word I was expecting. I was thinking some kind of thing. Yeah Are you are you accepting wine? I th yeah, I guess so. Wine, yeah. Have some wine. Which one would you prefer? You have the wine, I'll go for the blue . C blue. Thank you so much. This is the Docker cap. That I now I it does look on the small side, that's the only thing. It's actually a good look for you guys. I really love this, but I'm gonna stick with the white one because it's a better A better fit. Better size. Okay. But I could do that. Yeah you could do it. It's a hat on a hat. That might be a thing. Do you ever wear hats? I do. I I tend to wear like caps. I don't know what the what's the point of this? Of not having a brim. Yeah, because uh like if you have a beanie it keeps your head warm. I get that. When you have a cap, it's supposed to Yeah. What's the point of this? Oh to um move Is it purely advancing hair loss? Is that what it is? Yes . It's to distract people from the shiny expanding bold patch on the top of my head that I still haven't come to terms with yet. Yeah. How are you f how do you feel about aging? Not that great. No, genuinely, come on. You seem very comfortable in your own skin about these sorts of things. Really? Yeah. Oh well I'm doing a good job of deceiving you then. So what w how do you feel about it honestly? No, I feel I don't like it. It's bad, but I know that it's the big thing that I've got to make peace with 'cause I saw my mum not making peace with it. Right. I think she was really tortured by it. Yeah. And it's different for her as a woman, especially as a woman who grew up in Latin America in the fifties and she was a um you know an air stewardess and at a time when even more than now that job required you to be kind of like a glamour model almost, you know. So her looks were very important to her in the way she came across. And I remember that my mum towards the end of her life, she was staying at our house, and um this is not germane to the actual story, but we'd just been watching Long Shot with Charles Thuron and Seth Rogan. So everyone was pretty sad. And um we went on she was like uh I mean have you seen that film? I was still watching it with my with my ailing mother who was mercifully pissed on champagne, so I didn't really know what was happening. But I thought I'd sold this movie. It' likes everyone's gonna love this movie. It's a it's a fun thriller slash romantic comedy with Seth Rogan, Charlie's Thyron. We love them both. Thumbs up. This is gonna be great. You know, an hour later, Charlie's Thuron is on all fours with Seth Rogan fucking her from behind while she says while she says reach around and choke me a little bit and while you smack my butt Mummy you is this are you enjoying this ? What? No, yes, it's fine, that's fine. Carry on, I don't mind, it's fine. Shortly before going staggering off to the kitchen to get more champagne and and tripping on the rug and emptying her glass on the way back on the dog. Anyway, later that night I'm helping her up to her room and she's saying, I don't know what's wrong with me and I'm like, Well you're pretty pissed. But it was because she was old, you know, and she passed a mirror and she looked at herself in the mirror and she scowled and she went, I hate getting old and I was thinking, you're not getting old, mum, you are old . But it was sad to see her at war with it, you know, yeah in that way, like still upset and angry by what time was doing to her face. But I get it, man. I mean it I always felt like you know, I think of it as you look in the mirror and it's like you've been injured. You know what I mean? And usually when you look at an injury, it's like, oh, I've I've I I've got a cut there or a bruise or whatever, and it's gonna heal. But with aging, it doesn't. No. And it's and it's still hard to kind of get your head round it. You're like, what's wrong with my face? What's happened to my face? It used to be better, didn't it? Like when's that gonna sort itself out? And the answer is never. It's gonna get worse. And if you keep sort of scowling at it and getting annoyed about it, then it'll get even worse. Oh no. Because th the the the weird thing that I find is that if you look at a photo of yourself from many I mean obviously there's obvious obvious signs like greying etc. Yeah. But sometimes I will look at a photo of myself from many years ago and I look at myself and I think I can't put a finger on exactly why it is I look older and worse, but I do. And then I try to figure out if it's because like my face is just the the the the attachment between my face and my skull is getting gradually kind of weaker. You know like i i it it's just like it's coming away. I think I'm g it is it is sort of slowly coming away. And and I've talked about this on stage because I just thought you, know, I feel uncomfortable about this, let me talk about it on stage. And people don't I talk about it in such a sad way, it actually kills the room. People don't want to hear you say that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, because it's sort of like it's like you're vain and you're preoccupied and you haven't made peace is the thing. You know what I mean? It's like everyone's it's one of those things where everyone kinda wants you just to get on with it and not talk about it and and like, come on mate, we've we're all in the same boat. But then the problem is by the way, I think you're a very beautiful man and I also don't think that you have begun to get into the phase yet physically where you're deteriorating. To me, you you're looking better and better. But anyway, that'll come, don't you worry. Okay. But the other thing is this d this sort of s ongoing depression is for for not I mean it is actually going to get a lot worse, is that what you're saying? Oh, it might not though, because some people age really well, you know, and they and they look good in their own skin. It's when it's when you're just thinking, like, no, I don't like the way that it's going. Like, the other thing though is you go online and you see how kind of shocked people are when people age. Yeah, I know, I know I sometimes you kind of look at the comments accidentally and they're like, oh my god, why is he why is he so old? Why does this person look so old? You know, and it's someone who like maybe hasn't been on TV for a couple of years or they're promoting something. What happened to him? Exactly. Like, Jesus. But that's the other thing. Sometimes people do go like you can kind of tick along fairly comfortably and you're people are seeing you fairly regularly and they're adjusting to the way that you're changing physically. Yeah. But then if you bugger off for a couple of years, and then if you have a bad couple of years, you know, I mean hit it hard. If you hit it hard or or or stressful stuff happens to you, you know, then it really does change the way you look. And then you come back after that period and you're like Yeah, there's top ten lists, aren't there? You will not believe how shit this person looks now. That's right. How so-and-so looks now will make you particularly sad. And then you look and you go, yeah, they've been away for ten years. Oh yes. They look ten years older than they did before. . Um well thank you for coming on. I I two things I want to say. First of all, we have attempted we attempt on an annual basis to become friends, don't we? Yeah. Well I think we are friends. We are friends. Oh we're just friends. We're friends to see each other. Yeah. Like I consider you a friend, but every every now and again we go, let's do it. Let's do some of the things that actual friends do. Yeah. And we haven't managed it yet. And why is that? Geography, it doesn't help. Yeah, yeah. Um And just you get busy, don't you? Busyness. Yeah, yeah. You know it's difficult. How busy are you? Well, this year very busy because um I've I'm doing um unusually high rates of content plops. So Memoir number two. Yeah, very loose motion . And album. Yeah. And and then as well as that the podcast rumbles on. So the podcast takes up most of my time. Yeah. But then those other things are also uh making me busier this year than I normally would be. And I'm trying to play music from the album with a band which I've never done before. Yeah. And then you know, you go and you try and promote the book and do some live shows. So yeah, unusually busy. And I'm looking forward to things slowing down a bit more. Um so the that so then what happens it when I what I find is when I'm unusually busy is that when you do have like some time at home, you think I should soak up family time. Do you know what I mean? And then it becomes very difficult to do anything Exactly. If you see like your close friends more than twice a year, I think you're smashing it. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And sometimes actually th I'm hate to adm- Well I did actually talk about this in my last show. But sometimes when you do meet up with them as infrequently as that, there's a lot of pressure on that meeting. Yeah. There have been times and you know, I I'm not going to name any names, but there have been times when I'm with friends and I think actually this might be the last time we do this. This isn't this isn't as good as I remembered. Yeah, yeah. But it's not their fault. It's just you know also you have to relax a little bit and just let friendship take its course. You kind of drift in and out of each other's orbits, I think. And don't get too upset and uptight about it and start sending um passive aggressive texts. No. I a friend of mine um he got a text from someone once, having not been in touch for a little while, but but not for any reason, just you know, busy this stuff we've been talking about. And the text just said, have I become a burden to you? How does the friendship progress after that text? That's the end of the friendship. That is the end. Because the other alternative is to go, no. Exactly. Let's mate. Yeah. And then i inevitably that meeting will be a burden. I mean I say that that friendship actually has not ended. And it's fine. But um but I don't know if I would go for that tactic to uh to kick start a friendship. But I don't want it confirmed. I'm happy to sort of live in that grey area. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Um question, how angry are you about this podcast? Because I feel like you've been quite you're there's a lot of celebrity celebrity celebrity fronted podcasts popping up. Well, it's it's saturated, isn't it? And you were like one of the OGs, and now people like myself are coming in and it's annoying, isn't it? Just you can be open, we're friends, you can just be honest. It's annoying, isn't it? It is annoying. I've never I've never been genuinely annoyed about anyone doing a podcast. I think it's a great medium. I think it's democratic, wonderful. I love talking. I love you. It's great to see your podcast. I would listen to your podcast. The only person who I've ever complained about is Louis Thoreau because he's a close friend, I love him, I love what he does, but I don't want him to do a podcast because it's directly imp inging upon my listenership, I think. Because we are similar in a lot of ways, but he does it better in some ways. Now I don't think he does it the same. I think I'm better at other things. I agree. But but he just you know, numbers wise, he's definitely in a stronger position. And that means that he can attract guests that I probably couldn't get. And usually that's not a problem because he tends to go for slightly different people. Yeah. But every now and again there will be someone I would really like to speak to and if it's a choice between my podcast and his, they're probably gonna go on his. You know what I mean? Just because the numbers dictate it. How bothered are you by the numbers? Well, I I mean generally not n not that much. I don't check analytics or anything like that. Yeah. Unless I'm asked to do so, which happens every now and again. But I strongly resent all that. I really hate it and I think it's corrosive. Certainly for me. I appreciate that for some people it's useful and it's a a useful metric for gauging how the thing is going and what they need to work on and that's the that's the way they see the project. But for me, that's not how I see it. I feel like I want to spend all my time trying to make the actual podcast as good as possible, doing stupid ads and doing the jingles and kind of crafting the universe of the podcast as much as I can. So I'll spend loads of time on that. And any other time like promoting it or checking the numbers or worrying about like which guest is going to get bigger numbers than the other guest and all that kind of stuff just takes time away from the main thing. You know, like when you uh we we were talking about this, so we're talking about Stephen Bartlett, right? And I don't know if you've watched any of his like I have done. And uh have you watched him talking about how he does the podcast? Because he talks about um they talk about CO two levels in the room and they monitor that. And is that true? Yeah, he said that because apparently a a after a certain level uh your cognitive ability cognitive abilities dro I think the C O T might be high in here, actually. I couldn't I couldn't even say that. But y your cognitive levels abilities drop, um, they look at like the the the apparently they somebody changed the air freshener in the room and it's better and the office applauded. Like they go like super scientific, yeah. They have little uh bullshit filters in the w alls and they Yeah, and then they're like beta test clips and stuff like that. They really go in. Yeah. Super scientific. Which ball. Yeah. Which is one way of doing it. But one of the things I cause you're not on social media either, are you at all? So I feel like as soon as you start worrying about numbers and like the team will not be happy to hear me say this, but if as soon as you start worrying about numbers and feedback, I think it's like a pollutant. I I I think as soon as you start doing something that isn't led by what you actually want to do, I think it's problem. I actually think it's a problem. So so it's like this I think it's like a real walking this line between what you think what what people want should be pretty low down on your list of priorities, right? It's it's what you want to do. I think so. And that's why they're invested in you knew in the first place. And they may have that's that's not to say you're not interested in how they feel or they get in touch and they have criticism or whatever. Fine, you engage with that, but it's not the governing factor. As soon as that relationship with the audience began, I remember in the nineties, I remember it starting on TV, when shows started saying, What do you think? Tell us what you think. And when technology started making feedback m easier and more immediate and texting and all that kind of thing. When that started, I just remember thinking this is the cart before the horse, surely. Like why ? Who gives a fuck what what people think that they want to see at that moment? You're like, um you know, s for some shows that's more valuable than others, right? If it's kind of a consumer affairs type show. But but for an entertainment show or that sort of thing, yeah. I don't see the point. It's like, well, what's why do it that way? They come to you because they they're interested in what you want to do. So you do what you want to do and if they don't like it they can go elsewhere. I've really uh did you watch Severance? Yeah. So I really loved Severance. But if at some point during Severance they said what would you like to see happening? Yeah the show would become so much shitter because I don't know. Yeah. Like I I know that I'm enjoying it. And like there's part of you that thinks oh I'd you know, could I come up with but I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. You wanna be told the whole point is you want the personality to lead you and take bring you into their world and be your guide. It's like when you go and see a stand-up . You are being governed by how they handle the audience, right? And if you can smell fear as an audience, if you feel like they don't really know what they're doing, and they're kind of going, Does the audience like this? I don't know, then you sort of check out subconsciously. I've said it on stage that I think this is I don't know I this is getting away from me. I've done that a few times. Or like just gone I think this is going shit and I don't have the proper material to do I've done that too, but but and you and it's a way of trying to it's a kind of desperate measure to try and connect with the audience, isn't it? But it's usually not a good idea. No, it's really bad. I think c comics fall into the trap of it, and I've done it a lot where I'll go, This is behind the curtain. I think this is going terribly. Yeah. And they go, Oh, thanks for letting us know. We also can confirm your suspicions were correct. Yeah. This is going shit. And now we feel free to ex press that. Yeah. It's horrendous. Um but so so okay, so you're not against this podcast. No, no, I'm up for it. The only bit I the only thing I'm against is being filmed. Yeah, I was gonna yeah. I really don't like it. And I really don't think that podcasts need to be filmed. I appreciate It's the way it's going though. I know, but that's a number. That's what John told me. Yeah, John. He said to me that's the way it's going. He's right. His exact words were you Do you want to be left behind before you've even started? There you go. You know? Well my answer to that would be yep. I do want to be left behind. Because because it's another concession to the numbers. You know, they you film it so that you can maximize the reach, you can have it on more platforms, you can connect with a a bigger and bigger audience. Yeah, fine, connect with a bigger and bigger audience. But it changes what you're actually doing. If you're talking about podcasting, to me, the thing I like about podcasting is the hour experience, listening to it, and being in a non-vis ual world . And um I just think it's more absorbing and Yeah. It's and it's worse for it, isn't it? No, it's just a different thing. Yeah, but it's's worse. It slightly worse. Creative . I've just wanted to it's not. It's not worse. It's not worse. It's just for example, you've interrupted there. Yeah. I would say that's slightly worse. Okay. That's not . But you wouldn't have done that if it was just audio, would you? Yeah, but not on a TV show. Okay, right. So okay. Do we see a shot of you? No. It's good, isn's very frustrating. As a viewer, that would make me very annoying. That would make me very angry. Could we not just cut into just the your pressure? You need you need the you need the um every time. Not every time, but I think at the beginning of every episode when you because uh there hasn't been an episode when you haven't spoken, I don't think. So like every time like at the very top You said you wanted like a little community atmosphere in here. Yeah, but uh you I d I don't see you inviting Will and John to say anything. They say a lot. He sang. I think we sang. He sang with Paloma Faith. He did a duet. Upon being a big one. Well he wasn't on camera. I think we should see them you know, they're sitting there. He's got underwear on. Yeah. The other guy He's not. No. He's playing with himself. Yeah. We people should be able to. It's like the seventies in here. Yeah, yeah. It's the vibe. But you know, so but in all honesty, when so when I uh do you remember when we did the your podcast in LA? Yeah. And that tiny Airbnb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember that was like I think I was doing hip-hop saved my life at that time. 2017. 2017, yeah. It was twenty seventeen. Yeah. Twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. And I I was doing Hip Hop Saved My Life at that time. In fact, you came on Hip Hop Saved My Life. Yes. You did. And uh and uh did a Kenny Everett rap or something like that. Yeah, and then you but you also it was so funny. I remember we were talking about Joey Badass, the rapper, and you found his name so ridiculous. You started talking about Martin Naughty Man So good. But when w when I came to when I came to see you and do that podcast , it it was like what I thought was exciting about it, of course seeing you, but our chat was just like it was just so uh all-encompassing and sprawling and it was d I was about to say it's direction. I I know you were n you were nudging the conversation where you wanted to, but it didn't feel like it. It didn't fectured in the same way that we'd do on a chat show. And that's kind of when they're at their best, right? Yeah, yeah. When it's truly meandering the way that it would be if you'd met someone for the first time. I think you're getting to know someone, that you you're interested in them. You meet someone at a party and you go, oh yay. Oh yay. Oh yeah you go. I was up quite late last night. Actually I should say John and Ben were there. Oh yeah that was great. Yeah. Thank you. Good good . Uh I played a show at Rough Trade East with the Adam Buxton band. Yeah. Who are comprised of various current and former members of Metronomy. Yeah. And that's very exciting, isn't it? Yeah, really exciting. How did that happen? Um , well, I got approached to make an album years ago, like 2019, just because it was someone at a record label who liked the podcast and said, You should do like an album of those jingles except longer. So I said, yeah, okay. But then I then my ambition got the better of me and I started overthinking it, which I often do. And then the pandemic happened, blah blah blah. But finally, I got it together, and the reason that it finally happened was because I got uh hooked up with Joe Mount, who is the main guy in Metronomy, and I'd met him a couple of times, and he's really good at doing things more or less the opposite way that I would normally do them, which is I would normally worry about every single detail and carry on until things just didn't get done. Whereas he moves quite fast , he's like, Don't worry about all that shit that you were saying about before, all the ambitions you have for this album, Bulgarian choirs, and let's do a Nina Simone parody and all this kind of thing. He's like, just bring in some of your demos and we'll do that and that'll be fine. I'm like, yeah, but then it won't be good. How long would could he have taken before because obviously you're working with somebody that you really ad mire. How long could he have taken before you started to get, you know, assertive about getting a move on with it, do you think? Is that infinite? How long could he how long would Well I'm thinking like if I was doing an album with Kendrick Lamar, for example, who I really love and he said Okay, let's do this track together this and then I said Okay and then tell Get the verse back to you I think it could be it would be decades before I'd even send an email saying, Do you remember when we Yeah. Do you know what I mean? But could you were you a did you just have to you're just at the mercy of the Oh no, it was fine because we were in the same room. We're like doing it. I'd I'd go and stay with him. Okay. Uh he's got a studio at the end of his garden in Kent. Yeah. Just a little studio. And so it would be just a question of well, let's get together then. We didn't really do anything remotely. So it was all like we'd save it for those sessions and I'd turn up and play him something new and he'd go, okay, well, either we can use that or we've got to reconstruct all that, because you can't play guitar. You know, I'd try and do demos playing the guitar, but I I I'm really like a five-year-old. Yeah. Just who's had one lesson. Um so for those people so what's the what is the album basically? Uh the album what is it? I mean it's uh fourteen pretty short songs and most of them are f sort of funny. Yeah. Like some of them are straightforwardly funny. Yeah. It's one about a non-absorbent tea towel in the style of uh you know, Bossa Nova Pione er Joao Giberto . And um that's I would say mainly funny. It's not deep. It's an observation about how annoying it is when tea towels are not absorbent in the way that you want them to be. Yeah. And there's another one about uh the fact that I love sh wearing shorts. And uh I I don't see why I should be made to feel bad by some people as a as a middle aged man wearing shorts. Why do you love wearing shorts? Well it's just more comfortable. I cycle a lot. Yeah. So it's practical for me, but I just like the I like the freedom also I don't mind the look too much. I get when people think that it's a little depressing to see a man in shorts . But I don't know. I think you look good. I mean I I do th sat there, y I I do think you've got great I think your calves are particularly impressive. I think I've got good calves. You've got really good calves. So I don't have that. Right. So I'm slightly more reluctant to wear shorts. But uh they are more comfortable. I don't know, even on holiday I'm reluctant to wear shorts. Really? Yeah. But you dress quite well. Also I'm a shorter man, so like often uh often if I wear trousers they just accentuate my shortness right in a way, visually. Yeah. Like I've never been able to wear suits or anything like that. I've always envied people who can go around like Richard Iowa , they always think of. Where whenever he turns up, he's always immaculate. It looks like he's just stepped off the Wes Anderson set. I wish I was like that, but he's an entirely different type in every conceivable way. So I'm just doing what's practical. What do your family think about you wearing shorts? They're fine. I mean they've got used to it by now. They've never really seen me in in long trousers. Because occasionally like Lisa will say to me, because I because I I'm so into hip hop, it sort of influences the way I dress sometimes. And occasionally Lisa will say to me you you're flirting with looking like you're in fancy dress Like what kind of things are you wearing? A VW badge on a chain. I did that years ago, but I w I I wouldn't attempt that now. But like say for example, I'm really into like varsity jackets and like sort of train you know, a big pair of trainers or whatever . And then I'll be going to leave and she'll say to me, What is this look? Yeah. And then I I'll go, Do you not like it? And she goes, It's just um it's just unusual for you. But it isn't unusual for me. Yeah. So what she's saying is I don't like that look. Yeah, yeah. Correct. But she would never but Lisa is like she will express distaste but would never stop like she just if that's what you want to wear that's Yeah I go Like what though? What would that be for example? She's got a weird pair of trousers . Speaking of trousers , yeah. It's like I can't they're they're just a strange cut. Yeah. And um like they they're a little too short. Yeah. And um I don't know. This th they're not my favorite. She she has other outfits that I think are are s way better. Yeah. So when I saw them the other day I was like, those new trousers She's like, You know they're not Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh but but I always get busted as soon as I mention anything, if I make any comment on a item of clothing, uh, she knows that it's probably because I don't like it. Yeah. Even though I do say very regularly, you look great, but then she doesn't take me seriously. She doesn't remember the times when I say that. Do you think that means anything? Sorry, uh I don't I'm not trying to cast suspicions on your sentiment. But what I mean is like from your partner compliments are m are like massively devalued, I don't think if I say to Lisa you look really nice, I don't that she'll go, Oh, thanks. But if somebody if we leave the house and somebody says, Oh you look quite another that is I mean , she's walking on air. But that's because you're living together. So you're having to navigate this weird relationship of like, well, we've made our bed. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're lock ed in together. Yeah. Like it doesn't matter even if you look terrible. So you kind of Yeah. Like it it's it's it's all very well being honest in a relationship. And you obviously you want a certain degree of honesty. You want to be able to say what's really important , but from day to day n you don't Yeah you're right. Be becausecause the most important thing is to maintain civil relations within the house for the sake of everybody. I know. And so that sometimes means deprioritizing um comments that y after a while you kind of you might have made them back in the day, but now you've learned oh I'm not gonna say that. Yeah, those times are over. Yeah. Yeah. I tried to break Lisa that sounds but I tried to I tried to break in the idea of some trousers to her during lockdown where I I bought I bought some of those do you know like the Japanese kind of yogur y sort of harem you know, the crotches down here and the Oh yeah, so more like yes, I do, yeah. Sort of uh M C hammerish is how I describe if I was using an adjective. Yeah. So I bought a pair of those and I l I I put them on. I like I was just very excited to wear a different cut of trouser. I was very excited uh b about wearing them. And so um and so but because we weren't going out that much, I thought I'd wear them in and around the house to get her used to the idea of that silhouette. And so I started wearing it quite a lot, quite quite w wearing them quite a lot, and then we were about to go out and I thought this is the time. And so I came down the stairs and she said no . That is the one time she actually said What shoes do you wear with that? Like because unless you're wearing like those shoes with the curly toes It's hard to know what's No, I just wear trainers. Trainers, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like like exactly because who else other than MC Hammer popularized that look. Who gets away? That's something that that Pharrell would probably wear. Pharrell would, but but that that's the problem is you ha I think you have to manage expectations. Um anyway, so shorts, I deal with on the album. I deal with um all the big important topics. This one about grating my thumb accidentally while zesting lime for lunch. and uh there's quite a good bit of wordplay on there. My blood, migrat ing . The blood is No uh yeah, it's good. That is good. Yeah. And uh what else is on there Pizza Time. Oh yeah, there's Pizza Time, which is about that that's like the first sort of proper song that I tried to write. Got some real emotions in it about my son who was a teenager at the time and and he was going through a very indolent phase and that he was eating a lot of pizza and hanging around the house. It was after he'd I think just after he'd left school, it was that phase when I was thinking, How much longer are we just gonna let him get on with this and not nag him every time we see him in a bathrobe at eleven o'clock eating pizza, you know, and stealing more of my Carlsberg. And so it was it was a song about that trying to navigate as a dad and as someone who had been similarly indolent with lots of bad habits that my parents hassled me about as well. Trying to think like , how much do I put up with this and how much do I nag? Anyway, so it was about that, but then I got some feedback from a friend saying, hmm, not sure youre're you' kind of in between two stools here. It's sort of funny, sort of heartfelt. I think you've got to pick a side. And then I went back and forth on that note for a long time before realizing actually I, think that's my comfort zone is a sort of slightly awkward place in between funny and serious. So you don't mind that ? No, I get why it's a little off-putting, but I feel like that is my natural mode and and and it it feels inauthentic to push myself too far one way or the other. But you are very funny though. I mean you could you could have made it just funny, couldn't you? Well I did try I did after the note, I did n try and nudge it towards something a little funnier. And there were a couple of lines that were just straightforwardly nauseatingly clawing that I uh tried to remove. Well look, we but I th I'm this next thing that's gonna happen here. Yeah. I'm I just wanna be clear. I'm not in favour of this. But th this has come from the team, okay? So I just wanna distance myself from it. Unless you love it, in which case we can edit, can't we? So you're good at you're great at jingles. Oh yeah. And so I think it you're not selling it. Okay, let me try again. Let me try again. You're great at jingles. Thank you so much. So good at doing jingles. And we thought it would be fun to see if you'd do a jingle for us now. So it doesn't require an instrumentation. Um but we've got three topics for you. You can pick whichever you one you want Okay, I'll give you the three options. So the joy of descaling a kettle I think we've we we know when that's followed with can I choose that suggests that one's out wiping sleep crust out of your eye in the morning or cumin cumin Well all I can think of with cumin is hold on I'm cumin Hold on I'm cum in. It is good. Sam and Dave. Yeah. Um I mean descaling the kettle, it's difficult without the music. For me, the music comes first. Yeah. I'm using logic, I'm using Garage Band. Yeah. And uh I'm thinking here's where I'm going with this. Okay. Because we've got a genuine hard water problem up where we live. I think it's good to channel something real, yeah . So um Oh my god the problem with the hard water makes me think that I really really oughter and get the scaling but I'm failing there's still bits are flying in the kettle do you know what you snatched victory from the jaws of defeat there I thought that was gonna be an absolute shit show I gen I gen I genuinely did. For a n for a number of reasons. One, I thought it was putting you under too much pressure. Which it was. Yeah, it was, see. But you didn't help that. That's the point. No, but I'm just saying people don't want to. He's being sensitive. He knows what I'm like. He's reaching out a m uh Well somebody's agreed to he's had a late night right done a show he's come here to do the thing and then you go perform. I mean to be to be fair, it could be worse. You c there's all sorts of other th ways you could have put me on the spot that would be worse. Yeah. Actually, although I think you are going to do that later on. And maybe I'll go into a long, boring speech about it. Oh w oh, what is it that you think we're going to what is it? Your viral moments . I know I know how this show works. Okay good let's save it for later. Put a pin in it. Um on your own website you say that your crew can be divided into two parts, right? Blimey. Did I? Yeah. Research. Stuff you've done with Joe Cornish and stuff you've done without. Yeah, that's true. Um how how do do you you how see those two phases or two parts of your career? Uh the funny phase and the less funny phase. No, I mean if you're talking about me occupying or if I'm talking about me occupying a space somewhere between funny and sincere. That part began after I start after I did stuff with Joe. Yeah, that's that is what I mean. Yeah. And uh when I did stuff with Joe, I think we were m much more focused on trying to be funny. Yeah. And not trying to be kind of cloyingly sincere or deal with anything particularly emotionally resonant. Yeah. There were little bits here and there, and I always felt like I was putting clues in some of the stuff we did on the Adam and Joe show as to how I was genuinely feeling every now and again. Yeah. Um but on the whole we were just being solidly stupid. Yeah. And then that changed when we stopped doing stuff together, when he went off and started making movies, which was twenty eleven, I think Attack the Block came out, his first feature. And that really meant that he was from that point on so busy that we couldn't practically do stuff together anymore. And that was sad for me because we we were doing things on six music on the radio and that was the happiest that I'd been in my relationship , my professional relationship with him. Yeah. I felt like here we are, this is what we should have been doing for ages. This is really fun. I love doing the TV show, our kind of homemade Adam and Joe show thing, but channel four reached a point after we did four series, like that was a lot. Yeah, yeah. But they sort of said, Okay, you've done that now . Grow up, yeah, get a shiny floor show, get behind some desks, do some proper TV. And we were never able to make that transition, you know. And we did try. It's not as if we went to the case. Did you want to do that? I mean, it was like, ha fuck you, we're not gonna do that, because it was genuinely everything that we never wanted to do. We wanted to take the piss out of all that. But on the other hand, we were in insecure and we didn't want to just not have careers anymore suddenly. So we really did try and we did lots of weird shows going off to Tokyo and uh doing a kind of um pop culture show there, Adam and Jogo Tokyo, which was fun. I don't know. That was another one. I I I remember reading a review of that in back when I used to read reviews and this was 200 3 , so like over twenty years ago. And it said they're um God they look old in this review . Yeah. And um I was like, wow, that's a bit harsh. Anyway, that just never worked out doing doing all those um types of shows and trying to make the transition into more regular T V. And so that's how we ended up on the radio really. But and after a after a short period of thinking, is this a step down? Like, are we going backwards? 'Cause that's kind of how I started was doing local radio in Cheltenham when I was studying at art college there . But actually it was the best thing that ever happened to us in so many ways, and those are some of the things that I'm proudest of, those moments, although it was so ephemer al, you know. I mean I think there's clips flying around on the internet of me and Joe on six music, but not that many really. It just sort of evaporates. Yeah. Um but it was really fun. I really liked that. And and and so anyway, when that finished and when he got too busy, I had some wilderness years where I really didn't know what I was doing and what I was gonna do. And I did a show called Bug where I introduced music videos and actually that was really good . But it didn't, you know, it was I was introducing other people's work really. I wasn't doing my own thing. And I would put my own bits in there as well. But it was only when I started doing the podcast, my own podcast in twenty fifteen . That um that that that it felt possible to be silly and have stupid elements but also actually talk about real things and genuine feelings and hang ups and things like that. Does it feel quite good? 'Cause I on the podcast you're really funny and you're being really funny and the the bits that you create for it are really, really fun ny. There must be something nice about that, right? The the podcast is a real insight into your it's you, unadulterated Adam Buxton. And and the response has been amazing. Does that feel quite uh good? Yeah .. Cool Feels really good. Yeah. And I really like all the people I meet. Every time I do a a live thing and I meet people afterwards, it feels great because they're so kind and and warm and you know it's it it makes me feel really good about it. But um it's quite heavily managed the whole thing. I mean it's it's a it's a very finessed version of me. Yeah, yeah ye.ah So I edit, you know, it's heavily edited and it's not like Mark Marin was someone who I was certainly impressed by and was one of the people that I listened to that made me think, oh yeah, this is a good medium podcast thing. You know, you can have a real conversation where it's as much about the the host as it is the guest. It's a proper back and forth. So that was good. But but some one like him, he's much more fearless and confessional than I think I ever would be, really. Right. Is there a lot of stuff you just keep back from Well, there's a lot of stuff that gets taken out. My my editor, Seamus, has a fairly good sense of that's not doing you any favours. So that can come out. As well as for the guests. Yeah. You know, I want I want both people to feel protected. Yeah. Yeah . But sometimes you get the feeling that on some shows people aren't that well protected because they know like, ooh, this is spicy. Yeah. And people will some people will go, yay, well done for saying that, and other people will get angry about that. And actually , I kind of had to realize that that's not what this show is, not what my show is, really. It's much more kind of about trying to be, trying to get on and trying to be friendly and sort of protect people from being thrust into a space where they're going to be misunderstood. You know what I mean? Because that's one of the big dangers of the social media world is that you can be quite easily misinterpreted and misunderstood and uh people will you know, have a fairly bad faith interpretation of what you're of what you're about to. Is that why you're not on it at all? Oh yeah, I think so. I mean for lots of reasons. Mainly time. You know it's mainly like that's just another job. Yeah, I mean on that you must have so I mean it's so you're just on it all the time. It's insane. Yeah. It's really bad. Well, I mean I appreciate that there's i it's useful for people in all kinds of ways, but I was got i I was getting nothing really good out of it, personally. Um I believe we've got uh have we got a question from my mum. Oh yeah. Yeah Have you m you've not met my mum, have you? Not in real life, no. Okay, here we go. Let's have a listen. Hi Adam, I'm Rom's mom . I hope you're having nice time with my son . Uh he's learned so much from you and your show . It's a bit of a tricky question , but I don't mind asking you . Do you prefer your friend Louise or Joe? Okay . Thank you so much. Have a good time . Ah, thank you. What's your mum's name again? Shanti. Shanti. Thank you so much, Shanti . Did the person recording that put the gun away at the end of that? So so Atam, who do you prefer, Louise or Jo? I mean Louise every time. She's way nicer . That was uh that was good. It was really good. She says Adam the way my mum used to say Adam sometimes. She seemed so nervous, didn't she? I don't think I've ever said I've learned so much from Adam. That did sound like a question that had been written by someone Who wrote it then ? I didn't write it. Right. We took we we have a little chat. But but it was came from you. Well uh it came from a conversation with me. Right, okay. Wanted to force me to pick a favourite there by alienating. Well it was more like uh who you who have you become. I know how this works. Yeah. I know . No, I mean they both occupy such a different space in my life in in a lot of ways. Do you think Louis should do the decent thing and stop doing the podcast? Yeah . However, it's m it's becoming even more complicated because the podcast wouldn't be my podcast wouldn't be what it is without Louis and him having been on it. So, you know. When I s when I complain about his podcast doing well, I'm not sure. Do you think serious? U Yeah. But like t TV, like especially comedy ends TV, is struggling. You know, it's sort of it's sort of uh it's it feels like it's it might be cyclical, but it might be on its way out in terms of like you know, the whole load of panel shows that we used to have and all that kind of stuff. That's all gone now, isn't it? There's like two, and um and then podcasts are like getting really, really pop like massive. And there's video podcasts and stuff like that. Do you think, like, do you have do you have an opinion or a take on where it's gonna go? Because like, there's a lot of this, isn't there, of two people with microphones chatting? Yeah. Do you reckon it's gonna get uh to my mind it's gonna like it's gotta like something different's gonna happen soon, right? This isn't it though. This is the we've d we are very much behind the curve here at the the one my Shrang. I don't know I think this kind of thing comes in and out of fashion. Yeah. This sort of show used to be on TV, on actual TV. There used to be shows you know, even as late as the nineties, I remember watching , there would be half an hour of two people in a room just talking. Yeah, yeah. And you just cut between them and that would be the show. Yeah. I remember there was one with Robert Robinson and Lloyd Grossman. Yeah. And they would just waffle away. Two old blokes and and I used to watch that as a guy in my early twenties, just thinking, oh these guys are they get on, you know, it's kind of nice to be in their company. Yeah, yeah. I don't really give a shit what they're saying that much. They've just got a nice vibe. Yeah. And that's what people buy into. So it's a sort of um evergreen format really. I think people enjoy seeing other people connecting. Yeah. That's what it is. And whatever medium they do that in, they'll be up for it. So I don't think it'll ever really go away. And I think that podcasting has been as big as it has been because people really, really want to connect now in the kind of social media age. And their efforts to connect are being frustrated in so many ways by how we live and by technology and all these things that are supposed to actually make it easier to connect. It's actually having the opposite effect. So they end up you know, I've been in that position before. Certainly in the lockdown, I remember after my mum died feeling really mad and isolated. And rather than being with my family, I'd bugger off and listen to a podcast and enjoy listening to a couple of other people connecting, you know. So it's sometimes it's a bit sad . But in other ways, you know, there are times when you don't want to or can't or for whatever reason you're not connecting with the people around you. And in those moments it is really valuable, I think, and comforting and heartening to be in the company of people who are connecting. Well we've got a little game. It's it's it's called is a feature that I again another thing that I'm slightly um good to have features. I'm unconvinced by this feature. But I do think in in this particular case it might be good. Okay . It's misquoted. Um so uh you have we share this in common. You found an AI generated biography of yourself. Yes. I found a couple out there it took me all day. AI w uh uh generated they st they still point and click is in bloody let letterbox. Sometimes uh it's ludicrous. And it's hard to understand who and uh why is generating them, who and why is an appetite for it. Needless to say, they they ex they exist. They exist. Oh, they do. There's no question they exist . The question is why. So um so we have got some quotes for you. Um some of them are you and you just have to sort of guess. Okay. The best way to get people in television excited about something is to just make it yourself . I mean it sounds like the kind of boring shit I would say, but I don't think I did say it . You did say it. Did I? The best way to get people to television excited is to just make it so that's good that's not bad. Agreed . First of all, before I ask you this next one, do you say Bowie or Bowie? Personally, I say Bowie. Okay. My relationship with Bowie is complicated. He doesn't know I exist, and I've had and yet I've had entire conversations with him in the shower. Did not say that. Is not true . How did you why were you so certain? Because I know that I haven't done that. Oh yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. I'm like, I don't s I don't stand in the shower and go how you feeling today, David? I'm fine, thanks very much. The hair washing's going great, by the way. You've used a new conditioner which I think really suits you and smells very nice if you don't mind me saying. Thank you, David. Oh, I miss you. I wish you weren't dead. Um well I am. There's nothing that can be done about that, but I'm occupying a very sparkling temporal space that will never be truly disconnected from your realitude. So don't worry too much about Thank you, David. That's never happened. So I know that's not true. Holy shit. That was so good. Okay. Uh next one. Joe has always been the responsible one. He makes films. I make jingles about toilets. Haven't said that. That's not how I feel. Uh as far as having a craft or any expertise, that's always been significant ly missing in my life and it's been a source of anxiety. That's true. I definitely have thought that. And you said it in the observer. Yeah. Um But that's not true that's not true. That might be how you feel, but that's not true It is true . As far as having a craft or any expertise, that's been missing in my life. But e everything you do shows craft and expertise. Well that's nice. But I mean it's very nebulous. It's not like I I I feel like I'm not consistent. You know what I mean? Like the people who are uh it are really good in their fields are good because they are consistent. And to me that's partly to do with craft , like they have nailed what they do so well and they have an innate gift for it, that the combination of working really hard at it and being inherently good at it means that they fail very seldom. Like their worst is better than most people's best. Right. You know what I mean? Whereas my worst is pretty bad . But that's exciting though, too. It is exciting, I suppose. Okay. Um I started getting annoyed and said Dad, come on be professional, just touch the guy's bum. And then my dad got really angry and we had a shouting match outside in the car park of space. Yeah, that's true. That's when we were in Ibitha filming with my dad for the Adam and Joe show. And that was one of those times where we were being led I think by is this gonna be good on the show? And um we were like, yeah, okay, well, this is a thing to do with dad. And actually, a lot of those ideas came from Joe, and I would never have been able to generate them because my relationship with my dad was not close in that way. So to me, it was just excruciating the idea of having to spend a whole week in a batha with him. You know, we would hang out during the days, we'd be on the beach, and he liked it on the beach and then but then in the evenings he hated it because he just found the whole atmosphere overwhelming and grotesque was his word. I loathe the grotesque. Anything carnivalesque, you know, papier mache heads and just any kind of chaos. He didn't like chaos. You know, 'cause he'd been in the war. He was in the second world war. And I feel like once you've seen real horrific chaos, yeah. Then your tolerance your tolerance for it as fun. Yeah, in a recreational. Goes way down. So I think that's what he felt like that was kind of the root of the problem with a lot of the things that we were into and my generation were into. He couldn't get his head round it. Like, why do you embrace chaos? Like he you remember that track uh higher state of consciousness by Josh Wink. Yeah. When he heard that, he was like, this does not compute. Why would you listen to this? Yeah. It's like the pure sound of chaos. Anyway, we went to, we took him to a club. We took him to space. And it was uh it's pretty hard techno, dark and um there was a guy, a greased up guy on a podium grooving around with very few clothes on. And we just thought it would be like well, Joe said get your dad to touch the guy's bum. I've talked to the guy, he's fine with it. Um well originally he said l get him to lick his bum . I was like, you get him to lick his bum. I'm not gonna ask my dad to lick that guy's bum. And so Joe said, Nigel, will you lick that man's? No, certainly not. Well, would you just touch it? No. And after a while, it was like, just touch it, Dad. Come on. And then we can leave. No, I'm not going to touch his bottom, no. And um yeah, and then we and then I accused him of being unprofessional in the car park because he wouldn't touch the guy's bum. And then it it kicked off and he he got very angry. Which is fair enough. I mean he was the I I am actually so I see I get it from his point of view. Oh man, totally. He was in his seventies. Yeah, yeah. You know. It's a big arse. I mean i I I'm only fifty six and I find it exhausting and stressful to do any kind of filming, which doesn't happen very often these days. But imagine being in my seventies and going out into an environment that I find overwhelming and being ordered to do all these mad things and by your son, no less. Um now this is the bit um you're gonna be angry about. Yeah, yeah. Viral time. So the team have decided we need to have some sort of viral moment or exclusive. Yeah. I appreciate like and I apologize for ruining what is supposed to be just a fun ny No, I like it. I like it. It's a unique take. And you know, it's like what's wrong with uh cat playing the piano or um, you know, lightsaber boy I'll tell you what's wrong. It's bad for the cat, it's bad for the piano. And as for lightsaber boy, his whole life was ruined by that viral moment. Anyway, but I appreciate that there are some fun, nice virals, right? Yeah. And m I mean occasionally you'll get a viral thing that's entirely uplifting and positive. Oh look how nice and kind this person is being. I mean I can't think of any off the top of my head. I mean there's a hot tour girl who who went went viral and that led to her creating a crypto rug pull that lost people thousands and thousands of dollars. So that's a good thing Much more available to me when I think of virals are stories of people's who uh are stories of people whose lives were ruined when they had a viral moment. Because it's there's something c unnatural about it, I think. It's like that's not how life is supposed to work. You're suddenly being catapulted outside of your normal environment into a space where lots of people are seeing you for the first time, don't really know what makes you tick, they're just getting a very superficial kick from something. It's usually something that's gone wrong. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, you've gone viral. I.e., you've said something wrong, your life's gone wrong somehow, you've fallen over in an amusing way, something has gone wrong. And sometimes that's just silly and fun, but other times it's actually what you're looking at is a crack that is gonna turn into a chasm in that person's life. And I mean, I'm taking this way too seriously. But but but the serious thing about it, I think, is that it's kind of the engine that drives the internet. Yeah. And social media. Is engagement via something shocking or weird or loud and it's kinda the way that discourse has gone now as well, like on a more serious level. Everything is engineered and geared towards whoever shouts the loudest, whoever is most absolutely sure of their own views, whoever expresses those views in the most extreme way. They are going to be prioritized by the algorithm. And it's there's a cost to that I think . And bound up in that is this idea of virality. And I think you see the cost all around like more and more and and the way that it's being dealt with is almost as mad, you know, people getting arrested for tweets or whatever, and people getting assassinated and stuff. And you may, and I do when I think of those things, I feel like I disagree so strongly and I find it so objectionable a lot of the things that the content of those tweets or the things that were being said or whatever, but you're like ar resting these people and executing them in front of their families is not gonna sort it out. That's what the baddies do. Yeah. I I feel like there's a connection between that kind of desire to for something to prioritization of like extreme content and the way that people talk more and more especially in in in online spaces. Yeah. And the kind of the way that the like the tone of the conversation becomes changed. Well well it it's like um Do you have one or not? Do you know what? I I know that you're you were shitty yourself about saying that. I actually respect you for having the courage to do it. Um But no, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I had full sex with Louis through uh earlier this morning. Amazing. Thank you. And that is it. Adam Buxton, everybody. Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romish Wang and Nathan show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscrib ed. That's mad behaviour. You're gonna miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Romish Wang and Nathan show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them, and then on Thursdays I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan. We answer your questions, your stories, and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangabe.com, voice note or text. We genuinely love hearing from you, and there's a good chance you hear yourself on the show. See you next time. Oh shut up, Romish .