Tour de France Chaos and Conclusion

Coming up on this week's socially distanced sports bar part two. It's like fking watching Australian version of you I kn you think that. Yeah, I would with love. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Theres more There's more of it Nots a good side, is it? Where you're the top scorer in a club? and they go, tellell you we need to get rid of that Yeah Yeah we're really shit, I know, but let's get rid of him. Yeah The copper takes them in the wrong direction and they go under a low brave. Like a shit dad on holiday. he did sham on the brake and he's basically millimeters away from destroying all of his equipment Own the moment with Zin First one awake. world's still quiet. Flavor for the day ahead Out of office, Fairways clear Flavor ready for the greens this view, let it breathe. Flavor that stays true. Windows down, play list up. Flavor built to go the distance saavor at all with America's number one Nicotine pouch brand Warning, this product contains nicotine, Nicotine is an addictive chemical Let's be honest, if you have a cat, you've probably wondered what your house smells like before guests walk in. Thankfully, Armenhammer Cat Litter helps take that worry off your plate, becausecause not all litters are the same. Armenhammer Hartball cat litter gives you long lasting odor control, plus strong clumps that make scooping quick and easy, with low dust too It's a five in one litter made for busy people, helping your home stay fresher every day so you can feel confident opening the door for family and friends. Candles Air fresheners, notot needed here. Odor control is Armenhammer Catlitter's job, not yours. Be guest ready with Armenhammer Hardball Catlitter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon. There's a turning point in every business where you stop just surviving and start building I've seen it happen. Late at night, when you are hunched over a table, surrounded by plans and old coffee cups, and you have the moment of realization. This isn't just a project anymore, it's life's work In that exact moment, you realize your connectivity isn't just a utility. It's your most important infrastructure. You can't let a shaky signal be the thing that holds a dream like that back. AT and T Business provides reliable connectivity to small business owners. It's time to get a provider that is as dedicated to your vision as you are Powered by AT andT business, built to work AT andT business at business. At. com Do you want to impress Ellie your daughter Mag Yeah go on Yeah. I'm on a two on a daily basis, but Yeah. exxactly back, Maybe you should get. One of these. What's that It's a replica of the mugs, the Beetles drunk from a get backack. Oh, really So the mug the mugs went viral because When they were inavled Row Once they've realized it's not working in Twiterland and they moved to Savorotoa to in Su U and they start recording it. Theyve they've got they're all drinking from these really cool mugs ese sort of brown white and black mugs peopleople started making replicas and someone sent one into the Allison John show. And this is my favorite mugn I drink dr from me all the time, but Ellie would recognize this immediate seen if she go back, but they're quite easy to get a hold of. Yeah. my daughter. She she's living in the fifties as well though, she likes The pre Beatless stuff as well. Yeah, massive Beatlles fone. So she got into she watched a lot of old TV I've never heard of. She got into Ricky Nelson And through that was watching the Rickie Nelson was in like a sitcom I think the longest running sick on American TV it's Osie and Harriet Tal about P saaging things like the Kardashians ifcept they actually had talent Oswald and Harriet Nelson, this moment Dad I think he's like a big band leader and she was a singer. B a radio sort of sitcomf, I suppose in the late forties. Okay where they played themselves, and then both their boys, Ricky and David played themselves. and in nineteen fifty two were transferred to TV And it r for like fifteen years on telly Okay But Ricky Nk was a little kid who ended up in the show, becoming a drummer and a singer and and had a huge career. It was like it was like a Aolute H thro pin up Yeah. We're watching the show yesterday I wonder what showy first sang and it was like season. Veen fifty seven, fifty eight a what it was. We watched that episode And then he sang qu quite quite regularly on show that he would sing with his band Okay the end of the sitcom. Well in the sitcom, I gu that's part of the show. Oh, okay. God. Mike's taken this on board as a note. What sir You're taking this on board as a note for Mambetoth. I wish But watch one yesterday, it was probably g like nineteen fifties resolution tele, right? Yeah went Slash James Burton on the guitar. veryy young James Bh. who was that? So Well he was Elvis' guitar was in the seventies This would have been thirty years before that, nearly. Oh wow. P prettyty four years before So I'm I'm sure of him and looked that up. Yeahah and he was basically Ricky Nelson's TV band The guitars was Butt, Jan's so cool. I said, yeah, it is I said, Ive got some stuff from James Bbton and I said 'C a friend who listens to the podcast, Alen works on a TV show in America which sound like American pickets however. And he sent me some stuff. He said really, said, I' go and get if you know. So I gave her like a James Burton cap. Yeah. And then he'd signed like a was the TCB bandel well, this was back in the seventies, that he was a guitarist on He send me signed album The TCB band And a little video message on birday said, Hey Mike is Jes Burd, keep me taking care of business. Wow. He's like in his eighties now, right My daughter blown away Yeah Oh this is' incredible. Yeah's great, isn't it? She's like Stu McCney, your doult. She's a sort of cultural and historian. Oh's Matt There is Mat. the first som in Britain was a thing called Life with the Lions because it was about an American family Part of the reason they felt that there was a good idea was Bit Mo Kas divided on class in nineteen fifty when they started it. They were like, well, if we make a working class that come, the middle classes won't watch it or listen to it And if we make a middle class one then the working classes w first. So if we do one with an American family, everyone can watch it Be no one can relate to it Is't it What are you sneaking into your mouth like we're not on a video call, Mike? Whatats it? Fucking unbelievable. Jesus Chr So Simon Crispute. So your breakfast Wie has left Mike. Yeah. I think I think she's moved out. That has become so obvious. I think a week ago, he's on chocolate digestives and Watsts having already had KP dry roasted peanuts kind of monster. Yeah. he's now accepted. She's not coming back and that this is his new life. She's not com back. Yeah happy. Yeah, sure He's gonna go through a multip pack of watches today, Qavers tomorrow. The first two days, he was making promises about changing his lifestyle. Yeah yeah, yeah. he wass like. I would never get married again. I would never get married again. No, no, you were The first two days you were try to get a backmind. You were just wor thinking am I gonna marry someone else No, within the first two days of her moving out. This is better Okay. Notother bad way. I love Kelli. I would never get married again. Right, okay. But I spend my days e and watch to watch and supportortfect A you trying to change me all the time gir Right Once you finish that whats it This is the bit of the podcast where we talk about a documentary or a podcast series or in this case, a long form interview, Mike My God, I think I've become obsessed with Jacko Jackson. Who is Jacko Jackson Well exactly, who is Jacko Jackson? I't know until saw this clip. Someone seent me this clip of an interview show called Open Mike, an Australian Aussie Rules football show O wife fel called Mike Shean from of Google L and he's like a a sports writer in Australia. and sports podcaster predominantly works in Our football, the AFL and before not the VFL Victoria footbully. And he has these I suppose commercial hour long, or he did have about ten years ago, these commercial hour long interviews So about forty minutes off the annvert I can highly recommend you watching this. This is when He interviewed I I've googled this phan quite a bit U When' most notorious AFL Os football, I should say, they sort are pre AFL Jacka Jacks This is the interview they had when Everybody knew that Jackel Jackson hated The nineteen eighties was the most colorful decade of my time watching football It was a period when TV screens and newspapers were dominated by players with big personalities Bigger eges, even bigger hair and with scant respect for tradition. And how many did you poison? A time personified by a unique character named Mark Jackson. Jack, how are you? How bit tell you about this encounter, Mark, given our history? Well, our history is long and you know, a lot of blokes forget about people that do the wrong thing and you're one of those blokes that I've never forgotten. No, do you want to share with me you're a pollutant You know, you're a toilet Yeah, you're a pollutant. You're a toilet trained AFL jerk media journalist. That's all you are. You're a pubic hair. That's all you are. Mike, let me tell explain. Anybody after their father dies after a tribunal hearing, right? and then blames you for bringing on the stress, do you reckon you'd have a nice word about any of these journalists You wouldn't, Did I say that Well, listen, amongst other things, there was other things said. and ye Okay, let's talk about that. you raised it. Your father died on the night you got suspended for Yeah for the Lee Matews incident.. Yeah. Lee Matthews incident. He's the one that got charged by the police for assault for breaking the blake's jaw. He's the one that went to court and dogged me and said it was my fault Well, listen, I wouldn't do that to somebody, rightight? Yeah But you know hang on. And since then, right? he's gone on the coach four AFL Grand finals, which I never played Premierships, ye. Yeah winning Yeah, whatever. Right At the end of the day, what was what did the AFL actually hand down as a result of doing that? The only player ever at that level to hit somebody and get charged for a sol on the g. This is about you M, notot about L Max. No, no no. It's about an issue that happened in the eighties, rightight? Not eighties eight five. Yeah whichich reflects on me adly. But you whack three blokes that day. Itesn't matter who I whack, they're all looking at me. It doesn't matter No, it'sirrelevant. don't blame. It'srelev for wh. I don't blame any of the blokes I hit. When you they all had it coming, it was Hawthorne. You introduced Lee to this discussion. You were rubbed out for eight weeks because you smpped Chris Langford twice, Gary Ayres, and Chris Mew. Yeah Well, what's thats got Yeah Because you're a haorn, mate. You know, I look at the cols lease the most born team in the league. and without without the umpires help in the eighties, they wouldn't have gone anywhere. I've never been so transfixed by an interview in all my days, right? I've ever been so reminded of Mike Bubpins by interview in all my life? Well yeah, just one hundred fifty percent. And a lot of it isest like working watching an Australian version of you I knew you think that. and Yeah, I would with L. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. There more There's more of him But you know what? So he was basically, he played in Oulce football Back in the eighties When it was a bloody I mean, it It was a real free fraud. I remember watching when it first came on channel four. it was the VFL on those days you know And it was just mad. And he was like One of the toughest blokes in onene of the toughest years of One of the tougher sports, right And I don't watch a lot of Ozsie Rlls and I don't really get it But we some of those docs we watched I' h openop my eyes to it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I look it. And it seems to be like the real sort of blue collar sport in where it's from very much a football crowd following rather than maybe a rugby crowd following. Yeah towards you. Yeah and this bloke Jaco just was admitted a cheap you know wasn't just nose to nose, you know, what you would happily do. He would do whatever it took. You know, he wasn't bit of a cheaphop merer sometimes I've never sed a brutally honest interview, right? Yeah. And I gott to say, right Like for instance, say someone like Stepehven Jones who wre rugby for the Times, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I think Steven Jones is a knob And it didn't sound like that m of the sentence was gonna go that ty. Well I think you should not I think he's a nob. I think it's a nob because I think I think he's out of touch with the game. I don't think he gets it I think he's got that horrible sour of snow reed built in. He's very sort of Holier than now when when he' writing. I don't like I have to liked his rugby stuff, right And I think I mightght mention them onces not in a rude way M mayaybe it was a bit rhym. I think you just did for go on. Well, know, yeah. I remember he just immediately He would just block people, block me, block dozens and dozens of people, right? Yeah. Fairly to this Mike Sheer, right? I thought there's no way in a million years someone like Stephven Jones. would get yes would' get someone on for an hour. basasically berate them to their face I think everyone comes out of this well this interview. I do, I do. because I think Jackson People think he was just a thug, right If look at his goal scoring record. Oh really good. He was a really good footballer. Yeah. And he says like I was in bad teams Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at it, I mean he got voked up by his own team on more than one occasion. That's a good side, is it? Where you're the top scorer in a club And they go I tell you we need to get rid of that. Yeah Yeah we're really shit. I know, but let's get rid of him. Yeah. he You know, he's scoring most of your goals. He's by far your best player. Because the way he's got this real Chip on his shoulder that football should be played the way that he thinks football should be played, which is which is a real sort of rough tough rough neck beat him up game of football but he had the skills as well is the thing, right? He wasn't just he wasn't just You watch some goomons in hockey or some fellas in in rugby that just filled people and he wasn't that. He could do that when he did do that some of this stuff, What he gets c I' say why, you can't embarrass me. You can't You can't do a goter on Jackson, Jack with Jackson? No,. Like he says, what about the rumor that You put a cigarette in the c's pocket y And what And more What what do you want me to say? I the so defensive straight away. Yeah I did it was funny M it was funny. It was really funny. I thought it was funny. Everyone thought it was funny. you think it was funny? No thought he He never forgave me. He hates me.ever. then he goes You saident him a letter when his his son died or is his dad died another son passed away You went, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he read it and it was, you know, it kind of calm things between you. Yeah just not going Yeah actually I'm quite a good guy. the end and what because you can see there but that that is where he and I diverge a lot right He's terrified of anyone seeing a sensitive side to him. Absolutely. Isn't he? Yes,. so Yeah. And what want to sayate And when he keeps accusing him of not letting him have his say, I for make to be fair to Mike Sheer, he's doing nothing but. You've had eighty percent of the dialogue in this. And also not answered a single question that he's asked you And no. and most of it has been you hate him And everyone else hates, but they haven't got the balls. you've got to tell them that they they hate him. I. Don't come into contact with people like this anymore But when I was young when I lift in command then E even cariff to an extent and you'd be in the wrong pub. you'd That's what you reminded me of and you'd end up talking to someone. Yes who was really volatile and then they'd bec calm. and then they'd be really angry and then they'd be calm again. and then they'd be really angry. And sometimes they liked you and you thought, actually I'm doing it right to you. And ye I think I'm going to get away with this Yeah And then they hate you. Oh yeah. I don't like you're a pubic here. And then they're nice again and you're like, I think I'm going to get away with this actually. And then they hate you again Like Mike Shean, I assume is just thinking, well, he's not going to beat me up on camera. but actually I don't think the fact that there's a cother any is any guarantee of anything? No, no, no, no. no I think my shingers are this really well Andt I didn't know much sh. Actually, what I was thinking of was Steh. Yeah As a journalist was turn intuced. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Have you been on the end of anything like this? or how does this make you feel as a journalist? That's interesting because I don't know enough, I guess of the background of what this guy has said and done to know how much of it is. don I mean, I don't think it needs to be justified for Jackson to go nuts by the looks of things to me I don't know how much of it is justified I've been, you know, I've been on the receiving end of this stuff. and I think you can see in the interviewer's eyes, could tell you this. If he's got anything about him he sat there just going Let's just, I'll chke a couple more in here because this is working. This is what we wanted it to be like. time he yanked his chain deffinitely. Yeah I could tell. That's what you know in that situation, he doesn't interrupt a lot, which is interesting. He doesn't try to paint himself in a good picture, which is quite interesting either ' I would be a little too argumentative when I was doing stuff like this. Especially you's been very offensive about him about him being a bit of a pissad and being of this and that and all that s. Yes. Yeah. You see him thinking, Yeah, okay. The thing that would bother me I think I could handle I would want to be called a pubber careare If I was the way he keeps saying. Mike, you're a toilet trying journalist. Yeah. What does that mean? I didn't quite understand. G. Great. Yeah, cool man. I'm proud of it. I don't shit on the floor. Sorry. Yeah, I don't understand. I'm very about a toilet trying journalist Badam I think the thing that would get me going wouldn't be him saying I hate you, Alice. It would be used to that. Every player I know hates you. Everyone hates you. Yeah everyveryone who' sat on that chair hates you or they told me they hate you. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would bother. I think then I'd be like, I'm not sure about that or whatever. The one thing that really resonated though, right And this is the thing right I love how best to express this I'm just gonna say it anyway. That's fine. You can think And let's talk about rugby I've played rugby for some coaches who are fucking terrible coaches. and the fact that they might be profional coach, they might be a national coach. they might be You know, that doesn't mean that I don't think they're a terrible coach No And it doesn't mean oftentimes th they are they might well be a terrible coach. there's an assumption that because you're doing something at the top level, sure You must be the best on that thing. A I I' tr.. I's not true in coaching It's not true in comedy, it's not true in acting. it's not true in fucking plumbing, I'm sure or brain surgery, right It doesn't always mean that because you're the best at something on paper that you you're actually any good at it. doesn't it? And so he says like The one thing he says o, he was a great coach you made He couldn't he couldn't catch a pig out of be dirty Australia is are fucking weird frustright But he might be right. What a What if the guy was was a terrible coach Right? I was saying well this, right? So I do commonly know. am I ye blowing up smoking my assas, but we got There's not a lot of comics at the moment that are have got a third huge around on network te and stuff.m happ I'm very happy with that. It can all end tomorrow, but I'm just thinking People who didn't like my comedy fifteen years ago, Gy first start in com compedany. Yeah, ye subjective, right? They might think I'm a terrible fucking cist Yeahah, Yeah, no, they thought you were a c that st. Yeah, they figured ourself No the time, but he's fucking outt the time I'm you know, when you when you're clear in two recit a week Be tax. Yeah, you know what I mean And you're playing in small rooms and you drive around the country. someomebody he has a shit I like, that's why he's doing this. All right And then But if I'm then doing theaters and TV shows and whatever, Some us say, I think my bum is a shit coming Oh yeah, you jealous me? Well, no, but I thought it before. and now we now and a lot of people Don't think that. It doesn't mean like I don't think he's shit because 'cause he's achieved something Yeah in avert of commas, right If this bloke thinks someone's a shit coach. I'm not going to name the coaches I think a shit, right that I've worked with You won't change my opinion. I've seen it up clos and for me cooaching this shit, I don't care what you make doing. or what level you're at sameameound the same comedy There's comics, I think are brilliant that go nowhere and there's comics I think are shit that are fucking Megastars, right? Sure because it' subjective. So for Jackson He's not saying that for effect sometimes. He might generally think those coaches ucking rubish and you you need call them out It always sounds like sour grapes is the problem. Let's be honest. If you have a cat, you've probably wondered what your house smells like before guests walk in. Thankfully, Armenhammer Cat litter helps take that worry off your plate. becausecause not all litters are the same. Armenhammer Hardball cat litter gives you long lasting odor control, plus strong clumps that make scooping quick and easy, with low dust too It's a five in one litter made for busy people, helping your home stay fresher every day so you can feel confident opening the door for family and friends. Candles Air fresheners, notot needed here. Odor control is Armen Hammer Catlitter's job, not yours. Be guest ready with Armenhammer Hardball Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon Own the moment with Zin First one awake, world still quuiet. Flavor for the day ahead Out of office, Fairayways clear Flavor ready for the greens This view, let it breathe, Flavor that stays true Windows down, play list up. Flavor built to go the distance saavor at all with America's number one Nicotine pouch brand Warning, this product contains nicotine, nicotine is an addictive chemical product of his up brringing an environment. and I think he's got a lot of loyalty to players who are never part of the system and never fitted in and also to working class players in rural areas who he thinks are getting overlooked. Yeah. And I think if you are from an unfashionable place, he's got the same chip on his shoulder that I've got on my shoulder Yeah. I'm like I remember playing football in the Pembrghire Leagues and the Carthens Leagues I'm thinking if someone's brilliant, do they get watched and who are they getting watched by Yeah yeah, yeah yeah And so of my age, Simon Davis obviously ended up being a professional. was he was he was scouted by someone playing for solver. And we had a couple of boys who ended up at you know didn't make it, who ended up at Lees. So there must have been someone watching, but you do feel out of it. and I did used to think if I lived in Cardiff if I li Un, if I lived in Swans, you or certainly London, you know, you'd get a scene then and all that kind of stuff. And I think that's true with comedy when if you're not in London, you feel like you're getting ignored, which is actually initially I think probably Good thing I think it's a positive because otherwise People see him too early on and they make their mind shut. But I think he really is clearly a product of his environment and his upbringing. And you can't not be man. He doesn't think that journalists at the age in the Australian and in the media class in Australia are representative of where he grew up, which is the sort of stronghold of the game. There are people I meet now without point to one a point on it, right Maybe don't remember meeting me Fty years ago, forty five years ago. I remembering that here in the notepad. No they fucking on the notepad. I'll be very much to their phase. Yeah, yeah yeah. but yeah. This this forty five years ago. So what when you were was a kid it was a kid playing room? Okay, I mean Barry iss the fourth biggest place in Wales, right? fifty fifty five thousand people, right? Whver. Okay. fififty years of rugby They Ronnie Boom played in the thirties and Mason now who went to Welsh school, right Yes. I can't think of another international. Apuff from Gus Risman went north. Gus Risman is the,, isn't it? He never played for whales. Yeah. So in one hundred and fifty years, the fourth biggest place in Wales Let's produce two internationals. Okay. Because I can remember at every sort of trial growing up under elevens under thirteenths, under fourteteenh, under the fifteent, under sixteenth, under eighteenth, I would very, very often be the only Barry boy there, right? Okay. I there are a lots of good boys in my team, but I was I was at a level Wh? It would It bit ridiculous not to pick me,? E though they didn't particularly want to pick me, I'm quite sure, right Right. But then you get to a certain level and you just your face wouldn't fit. You were the fucking rough kid from Bart, right? You weren't from one of the posh schools, you weren't Welsh speaker, you went from the nice parts to Wales, wherever So Barryer had a reputation. being in this rough blue collar tone I was a person who went there who was from there, right And that does that is a chip in the shoulder going And you are all sort of battling against perceived clicks quite often they're not periv The reason you often think there's a bit of a click is there is a fucking click But if you mention that, is sour grapes Yeah. You know what I mean? But I can tell you right now like growing up as a kid when we're like we would b to West Wales East Wales, what it? One, but the skoreboard's the skoreboard, right? But then that wouldn't make up the Welsh cham They think go, yeah, what's going on? L newook Like Newport boys, Barry boys, even the rather wrong parts of Cardiff, right If you're Bishop, right Fucking great R road player D day for sure Wherever else you might be, right? He was from an unfashionable park cardiff, he was a bit of a fucking ruffian. He was a bit of a tearaway. You're not going to get the you're not going to get the bakes. Well, Mark Jacko Jackson thinks this. And then you end up doing which which she talks about, right? Sorry, I'll just one second He talks about You took out one of your own players and trained it 've done lots of times He's like fucking here And he makes a really honest point about professional sports you got two reals. You'll play for yourself. Yes. You'll play for yourself If I need to take out the other fucking flanker in training, I'll take him out That's fine. Eespecially if I think better than him but I'm not going to get a shot So I can see why he does all that shit. and I can understand him completely I mean, don't get me wrong, he's fucking unhinged. He is unhinged. But also I think if you are a working class Australian from Ver rural part of Australia and the country, which seems to be the strong. I don't know an enormous amount about AFL seems to be the strong worlder of the game and you've been written about by middle class journists from Melbourne and Sydney I can see how you feel like you're not being represented properly. Bellamy had a bit of this work growing up because of Wing Stromic Cardiff I think he thinks he's misunderstood. It's just so much And he's a great player. And the thing with team sport is' slightly different to say the one hundred meter sprint where you're either the fastest or you're not. There's a slight there's an element of subjectivity and obviously building a team. there's all sorts of chemistry I'll get me to it But he's like I was a really good player and I And it's obvious I was a good player, but my face didn't fit Clearly, you can be a good player and disruptive Yes. whoo do you remember Sth this is just st he into a lot of people, right I'm thinking about Terry Holes Yeah, yeah. Marcus reminds me of being Chaplery in both of them. I think the also they' very good at this kind of Yeah. provocative relative Telly Yeah. I think Terry Holmes markark ring Yeah, Dave Bish was overlooked really, but I can't think of another What I would describe as a cardiff accent. Steve Ford, I guess? D But his brother had to go north to getst D fourord ye. Credit, Phil. So Rly boy, yeah. Yeah. Isn't D young from Cardiff? dies Aber there, isn't he? Yeah, is he? Okay. he played for Cardiff. Yeah yeah I played a lot forardiffiff off the rugby play in part of Wales. Yeah C is probably a third of it Oh yeah, yeah. and it depends on which bitter card if you mean as well because you know, you're talking proper like if you're Romy or co Eie or Eie or Yeah, your East card if areas or lead West you know I agree with you. Yeah. I think if you're a posh cardiff then I think that sort of lands better with Card of Rugby glo. Well speaking Card of a pososh card if you got a much better chance, I shouldn't have a much better chance than if you come from the Unfession Yeah. I would agree. what about the Ronza then Because the drum and that part of the Valleys is always produced rugby players? It has, but I think the I think the Pont de Pes were unfashionable and I think they sort of forced their way towards being fashionable. I think that being very unfashionable Yeah, absolutely. Yeahah, yeah yeah yeah. and you know And you' gonna understand I loved it because that means it's fl were fashionable and I agree with that. But if you're listening to this partod in States or in wherever you might be listening to this, right You've got to understand Wlshography to understand that you can if you're from a part of a country that is seen as unfashionable or undesirable thenen you can grow up with a fucking big oldl chip on your shoulder. Oh, yes, of course. Yeah. And I think that's what he's done. What he says about getting the fucking call on me drive around to the clubs that I go to The will I end up is you probably end up and or he say probably end under a pit or something Yeah dead bury. It says The game gave me a lot, but I gave more back. Yeah He thinks he did. Yes and I think. I'm not sure I would have wanted to have been in a team with Mark Jacker Jackson if I'm perfectly honest, I'd hate to go on a night out with him Can you imagine him You know what I'm not sure about? If I worked at headland Mobile windscreens, right in Pilborough, do I want him on TV wearing a shirt brandishing my branding on his arm and on his chest throughout this interview. I would. I don't think it's a good advert for my windscreen replacement company. And I'm not sure that the money that I've paid him prior to this interview because he's going on Tally is now worth it. I reckon he's like but I reckon a lot. Disenfranchised Azies. With smash windcreens, S justine Yeah, maybe. We'll see him as a fucking folk hero. Yeah. Yeah, there is that. Yeah. ye. I'd love to talk to an Aussie about an AFL fan who remembers him because I love this interview and I think the Australians are good at conflict and We've watched a couple of things made by Austrinian Tali. with it just like, all right, then A doesn't like B. let's get A and B to sit down together. with the cameras roll in and see what happens. I felt I thought this was an extraordinary piece of television. Stef De wrote there. We didn't answer a single if you wrote this down. Yeah, a part in the ondes where he goes, yeah, I did' right The ones where he just doesn't answer the questions. The majority of it is yeah, but in nineteen eighty four, you were a bit of a g cun It kind of he turns everything around to what he wants to say. it's quite hard to follow. then're not knowing the characters. And he will have built himself up for this interview. He would have agreed to it So say he's asked on the first of January to do the interview and the interview is on the thirty first of January That whole month he had been like in the car finally gonna get my say Butve's doing the thing of which maybe it's just me, but I think everybody does this of preparing for some kind of conversation, whether it's, you know S someone in work you' got to have a chat with or you know, a mate you got to have a conversation with and you're preparing it in your head. you've got all these points that you need to make and you've almost listed them. And what he's doing is just scattergunning them out. He's coming out regardless of whether it's relevant to what we're talking about here. And he just scatterguns them. Oh, I also, I think the questions he's asked are utterly irrelevant had his piece that he wanted to get off his chest some of which he's wanted to get off his chest for over almost fifty years, I think And he's like, fininally, I've been given a platform. to air my grievances I as someone who comes from In the British context, quite sort of remote place. I understand it's like you feel like every life's happening in other places And that's a really that's quite a difficult thing, especially when you're young. He's also very happy Is it a point that thisist is ten years to listen to you now, right He's sort of he's worked out by this point in his life that He's never going to get a job in fox football. He's never going to get a job with AFL.. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So fuck it. It's just thinks I'm going Fair play the fox with broadcaster, F fuck has a right go foox as right? A does he? No And fair play the shiee because he stands by his gun. Do you think I have a good idea? What do you I do? I did think I was going to hit ye. Yeah. Yeah Well, what was that m? Is you fucking toilet trainst traint you coherent but Dick Yeah. I just thought was an interview though, was like this. I watching it. fascin. But that's the bit as well, isn't it? is, you know does it have to be coherent? Not really don't give interviews to these kind of people in the UK Noope No, that's true. Yeah. Like There are loads of Premier League footballers who would have this sort of I think the closest we get we've got to is Roy Kean probably. but kind of that's you know, that's interesting actually because sometimes Roy Roy's assumed knowledge that you have when he's telling an anecdote. sometometimes it is like this where he'll say something or he'll reference three or four things that have happened in the past you're like, shit I don't really know what you're on about now but I know you're angry And he does a lot of this In terms of football, soccer Yeah and the Premier League, Vinny. An enormousm much because I give this threeice Like an unhinged version of Vinny. Yeah, a huge amount of footballers come from very, very impoverished backgrounds. Yes. reallyally, really Fs And if you're good at football No one cares. Yes. And if you think, you know, you can think of people like Deli Ali for instance who had a really, really tough difficult up still played for England, still played for Tottenham because football doesn't give a fuck. If you can play football It's fine. even someone like You know, Wayne Rooney' from the tough part of Liverpool and so is J Jeraldon Tx deith, you know? Yeah And I think that Soccer in the Premier League ' try and knock the edges off you a little bit, but ultimately as well because of the money in the game if you if you're performing on the pitch. Really, you can sort of do what you want. But what it says I play for nothing So we didn't play for nothing Market well Jelong was on twelve thousand dollars a year. And paid eighteen thousand dollars in That you're at eighteen thousand dollars in fines He go that's your fault. No it's not mine. He looked at me Well you know, he looked at me funny. There's a lot of that But then when he talks tactics then, will he him talk about he really gets the game. Yeah, absolutely. Torge he deeply understands B. I also think he deeply understands some of the provocation that he chucked in other players direction. I think, you know he understands why he was doing that as well Yeah That's not just because they looked at him, it's to get them off their game. And I think he knows that in the same way I think Vinny would have known what he was doing as a player as well Like I'd likek to seeen like D Bish before before his medical issues, you know having this sort of completely frank conversation about what he thought about the way the rugby was being run. Well, do you remember we did a diish clip I chose it And it was him talking about Ray Prosser, his coach at Ponterpool. Okay. And he cries in the clip because he' like Ray Prosser was the one coach who understood me as a person. and I was at my b. And if he'd coached Wales, I would have played for Wales and I would have you'd have seen a really good player because sometimes I don't think I'm good enough with people to be a good manager I don't I actually don't think I'm I'm like They treat everyone the same and that's not the way it works And I think Di Bishop in particular needed a certain kind of manager in the way that Pol Gascone needed a certain kind of managerers, so Pol Gascoy played really well. Terry Vendables and Bobby Robs Yeah, yeah. two people who could really could really get to him as a person to get the best out of him And obviously, I would imagine that Bobby Robinson would treated Stuart Piers differently to how he treated Paul Gasco such different characters. I Mark Jackyl Jackson thinkinks AFL should be played thinks footage should be played in a certain way. Do doesnn't think footage is the same sport it used to be And I think a lot of players who have in their mid sixties like years think that about their respective sports. Yes I think deep down thinks that he wasted his career a little bit, but he doesn't want to admit that and also that would have involved him really changing his behavior and personality, and I don't think he's willing to do that either But what it does make for Pes Such a combustible forty minutes of te, you believe what I' see. And the journalist because the journalist is a well spoken Clever guy who knows the game. 're just it's chock and cheese, but it just makes for great television. I loveved this. That wass goodn't it? I would never have watched it otherwise. 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Find it now at Walmart or Amazon Right, book choice. we had it teased Oh yes Dark of partart wor this week. So What is it, E? What's it called? who is? Absolutely fantastic. It's wide eyed and legless inside the Tour de France by Jeff Connor second book called the numberb and second book of all time It happens to be the way these things have fallen The second book in twow weeks I've read about the nineteen eighty seven Tols I've also read a book about the nineteen eighty nine Tot the Fronti fivey eight. No complete horizonood l. Not too specific, then it's fine This is Sw Micer Bins, right? So a guy called Tony Kappa Wh ran it was like a delivery company like sort of haulage or delivery company called ANC. And they made track today But yeah, they were overnight expxpress delivery service stror Yeah. And what he realized at Kappa at first sight looks an unlikely figure to be involved in sport, a twenty stone plus, a dedicated j. smoker. and in his own words, not wearing very well ' was a rough diamond who made his fortune when he founded and then sold out ANca. so he was brought up the son of a miner in Storolm, Trent joined the army at sixteen, leaving six years later to become what he described as a very tolerant policeman. and later running business a taxi business in store So what he re real is, he set up was business and what he could see was that in terms of bang for your buck If you sponsor a cycle team in comparison with I don't know, the an adt doing the halftime show the Super Bowl or sponsoring the League or something like that You get way more money It gets way more bung for your buck because if you've got a cyclist who's leading a stage You will be on Telly all over Europe all day She wass like, what I'm going to do then? I'm start aike you know, I'll start a team, a British team. And if I can get into the big races My overnight delivery service, logo will be all over those shirts and'll be I'll be a multi multimillionaire. So We we started teams. was called ANC Halfords and they'd taken part, they competed in things like the Tour of Britain, you know the Milk race And they' done a couple of the classics in Europe, the O day classics. But he hungged in a big stage race by the Tour of France And Richard Moore, did you ever meet Richard Moore, Steffh? No. No, sadly not. Such a gifted guy Richard Moore. He writes the forward. And he says that you know, if they'd waited one more year, they'd have been a little bit more experienence and it might not have gone so badly because they were the first British team ent to the tall for twenty years since the s of year of Tom Simpson Tom Simpson was just riding for Great Britain. Now I don't know how it worked back then, but obviously by the eighties, it was ye the company sponsoring teams So I don't know how how it worked in the sixties? Becauseuse all the teams hadational you national names So anyway, so ANC Halfordent The race in eighty seven He wants an old British team. On four of the nine riders ended up being British in the end. And there's some There's some talent in the sidees, right in the side in the teams. you've got Graam Jones who' one of Brit cyclists in the nineties had come twentieth and the tall of front in eighty one. so he's in the team. A lot of young sort of cyclists will show a lot of potential. They're really naive. I is Air resources are stretched way beyond their limits So Jeff Conno, I think was working for the Daily star, becomes the embedded journalist and he hasn't got very much background in cycling either. So he's doing it really to introduce cycling to a new audience. who he doesn't know what he's talking about. So he ends up being in the car. No one really knows what they're doing now. They've gotten this like a Belgian guy in the team is sort, you know, working with the director sport team. So they bit of expertise, but certainly not enough and they haven't got enough resources and the tour is really chaotic And they haven't organized anything like this before. So there's one stage as a time trial They when use so the time trial don't get delivered on time so they got they've got to use their normal bikes so that they're way down from the beginning The Jeff Connor, the writer It starts off just trying to be a journist, pieces of the Daily Star. Eventually because the resour is so stretch, he basically becomes part of the team and is driving the car They're staying in shit hotels. They're staying in hotels that don't do food That's bad. That's bad for a bunch of cyclist. bit of a b banometers. Yeah. And you turn up we still serving boys, We don't serve It's It's a really it's at times very funny because it's so shambolic I mean, it's bleakly funny. I got recommended this book by Rodery Viny, my friend, the musician, a gay, the lovely Rodery, who was obsessed with cycling And he said, you will love this book. So's the it's the E Stepven Rach, the Irishman w it The journalist, Jeff Conor became an unofficial team member. so He ends up driving them. At one point he's salting out the hotel rooms. Okay he's unpacking stuff They start the tour started that year in West Berlin Soies before the wall came down Cold war is still happening. One of the riders is from Czechoslovakia. And he's just gray and he doesn't smile.