Political Fallout and Debate Over Policing

Hi, it's Man Vin As the fallout from the murder of Henry Novak has grown We thought we should bring you the latest. So in this extra afternoon episode of the story, We're handing over to our Times radio colleague, John Pinar Hello, I'm John Pinar with the Drive on Times Radio. Thanks for joining me The murder of Henry Novak was appalling. The police response abysmal crash. And the fallout has ignited a wave of political soul searching, point scoring, and recrimination wrongly treated Novak as a racist offender when they arrived at the scene of the attack, cuffing his hands while he lay dying on the ground of multiple knife wounds inflicted by his attacker, Vikrim Diga, A Sikh Now Duwa has now been jailed for a minimum of twenty one years And the case ranks like the murder of black teenager Stephen Lawrence in nineteen ninety three, which highlighted violent racism. And that of the ten year old gang violence victim Damelera Taylor in two thousand As a case which defines the social challenges of our time Now, the question has become, hasas fear of being judged racist grown so strong, it could blind police officers at a crime scene to the truth of who's the victim and who's the violent offender? So blind that an innocent eighteen year old died handcuffed on the ground while his killer lied about being racially abused to escape the consequences So earlier on, speaking in the House ofommons, the homeome Secretary Shaban Mahammou condemned the murder of this eighteen year old Henry Novak as an evil act. And she told MPs the murder shouldn't be allowed to drive communities apart. Yesterday, the Novak family ended their statement with a powerful call to us all. I quote We do not want his death to be used to create further division, hatred or tension They quoted the words of the prosecuting lawyer. And I quote again, Mr Speaker, this is not a case about seeikhism. this is not a case about racism. this is a case about murder I echo those words We cannot allow this murder to turn communities against one another We must condemn those who seek personal political profit from tragedy. Instead, we must show who we really are in this country. This was a murder, a vile and violent crime The punishment must be reserved for those who are responsible for the act We do not believe in collective punishment in this country. Instead, we stand together against an act of pure evil We condemn those who committed this heinous crime, not all those who share their faith or their ethnicity The Home Secretary responded to calls to tighten the rights of the Sih community to carry ceremonial knives. The Offensive Weapons Act of twenty nineteen passed under the previous government, clarified and strengthened existing legal protections in relation to long curps This included extending defences so that Kpins can be lawfully possessed for religious reasons and used in religious and ceremonial contexts But let me be clear Carrying a knife for the purpose of religious observance is one thing Using it as so tragically occurred in this case is quite another It is a viol act, a crime of the utmost severity, and it will be met with the severest punishment Shibana Mahmud then another reform Party leader Nigel Farr said that Harry Novak's arrest for alleged racial abuse minutes before he died showed that racism was regarded by the police as more serious than murder. Within a few days, Kir Starmer was taking Mee Lives mter. exploded all over the country. And yet what has the public reaction been? from our leaders and politicians, and indeed, to be frank Much of the meat into this Silence. Absolute silence Proof H ever was any that we're living in a two tier culture in this country where the rights and privileges of white people Matter less than those minorities Nigel Farraage, the Tory leader Kemmy Badenock, had this to say on ITV's Good morning Brison something has gone wrong with policing, but we all need to take a good long hard look at ourselves. It is not just the police. I remember when this movement was happening and I was saying we are creating different rules for different people. All of the people who are taking the knee about a man who died in another country should think about doing the same here. We need to bring back equality under the law What Nidel Farage is doing is reinforcing the difference. I have said that we need to find what we have in common, not what separates us. I don't want to hear about Back lies matter. I don't want to hear about white liivves matter. We all matter. Enough of this nonsense where we keep separating everybody and splitting people into different groups, We are descending into tribalism Kemmy Bayerk there. So let's first talk to Onie Wright, the policy editor of the Times. Howi to you, Onie? Hello. So Onie, welcome. you've been listening to the political debate in the commons and outside. What's your take on how this is flaring up politically? I mean, I think it's really exposed some of the pretty raw fault lines in politics quite beyond the sort of the circumstances of this dreadful case. you see a very sharp distinction between what Nigel Farage said this morning and Kemmy Badenoock's response, and indeed, the response of the homeome Sctary Shibana Mahmouud in the Cins this afternoon. I mean, she was very clear. She said that this is not a moment pit white Britons against non white Britons. And she also said that there have been a lot of disinformation and inflammatory commentary that have made a dreadful situation worse. and although she didn't directly referenced Nigel Farge. I didn't think anyone was left in any doubt as to who she was referring to. Yeah, and dividing lines within dividing lines. We say and we see Farage and reform seizing on this issue in the way that they have and and notable the way that Farraage was criticized from the Tory side from the principal party of the right. And I mean to be fair to Kamy Badnoock, she did a lot of work on this when she was in government. She was a qualities minister. and it was very much her sort of longstanding view that one of the problems in the way in which racism was dealt in this country was you dividing people and she saw that all people should be seen as equal. That was very much her view. I think She has restated that again today in the context of this case Okay, and reformed clearly undernderred. They see themes here. they think will resonate with supporters and potential supporters and deliver vote to that party. What about change? What's been emerging so far been ideas for change to learn the lessons that can be learned from this early I mean, I think one of the difficulties, particularly for the government is obviously those this investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct and they do not want to be seen to be judging that. And I think it's also you it's important everyone has seen the sort of horrific images from the police bodycam, but The comments of the judge in the case was more nuanced. He said that you know he could see reasons for why the officers acted the way in which he did. He pointed out that you it was not uncommon for the courts to see cases of people who've been arrested and put in handcuffs claiming they'd been injured to try and you know be released said Ecuse what happened in any way, but it might explain it. And it's obviously going to be the job of the Office of Police Connuct to look at this in real detail and to try and separate themselves from the sort of fairly caustic political debate that's happening around it, many of whom you weren't almost all of whom weren't sitting through the evidence that the court heard. Yeah. How do you weigh up the government's position lastly Oon, of course ministers will be aware, very aware. this is a deeply sensitive issue. It's potentially combustible. These ministers are treading on eggshells They are. and you know, I think there' quite a lot of anger at the way in which Nigel Farage has politicized this you look that in the context of the Makerfield B election where you reform is actually facing a challenge from its right from the Restore partarty. And some people think that this is an attempt of Nigel Farage toit sureore up his base on the right as much as anything else. It's always very difficult and quite dangerous when you politicians that jump into a very raw debate and are trying to that make political capital out it on any side, frankly That was John Pinar from Times Radio Drive, talking to the policy editor at the Times, Oliver Wright For more from John, you can listen to Drive every weekday at four PM on Times Radio We'll be back tomorrow morning, looking at why the situation in Lebanon is so crucial to a peace deal between the U. S. and Iran Tee then