Final Thoughts on Red Rising

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with progressive save over nine hundred dollars on average. Pop over to progressive dot coma answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, ninety nine percent of their auto customers earn at least one discount T progressive dot com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty inssurance Company and Affiliates. National average twelve month savings by nine hundred and forty six dollars by new customers surveyed who saved with prorogressive between june twenty twenty four and may twenty twenty five. Potential savings will vary. Everyone treats summer like it owes you happiness, L days, pool parties, your best life on a loop So what does it mean when you feel worse? The summer blues are real. It's why summer is one of the busiest stretches of the year for people starting therapy. Grow Thrapy is here for all the moments when you decide you want more, more support, more clarity, more tools GroO connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. The therapist you want takes your insurance on G. Gro accepts over one hundred twenty five insurance plans. Sessions average twenty one dollars with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan Visit growthapy d. com slash Acast today to get started. That's growtherraapy dot com slash Acast Gtherraapy d. com slash Acast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plans Visit patreon. com slash swword and Laser Sword and Lazer hopes you will enjoy this program Hey everyone, welcome to the Sord and Lazer. I'm Vonica Baumont and I'm Jom N Sword and Laser is a book club, but it's so much more. We bring you news from the world of science fiction and fantasy, and of course, all of the awesome discussions from fans just like you It's like hands across The genres reaching out together as one. Touching you Sweet Anh off Yeahah I always thought that the hands touching hands, touching me, touching you always kind of creeped me out. It sounds a little unsanitary. I mean, it's really one of my favorite songs to sing at baseball games. But are they washing those hands He, did you hear that ton Maxchzer is going to be pitching for the Vancouver Canadians? No. why? Yeah. I don't know for like some rehab. Oh, it's rehab. Okay. Yeah. I want to go. Of course. Yeah, yeah, you should I should go. It's probably gonna all sell out now. He's a good pitcher He has a good pitcher. He pit he throws those balls well He sure does. He sure does. Anyway, this is not a baseball show. It's also not a food show, but we're still going to talk about what are we gnawing. You know what might be more food show than it isn't sometimes U Today, see you always get me usually on a Wednesday when we're making one of our Tavala smart oven meals, but not today. Today is not that day because we're doing Thursday. I had pono crusted tilapia with roasted potatoes and braised zucchini. That sounds very nice. It actually sounds like a Tavalo meal, but it wasn'. It was Trader Joe's pongkong crusted Dilapia. and then Eileen air fried some roasted potatoes and braised the zucchini and it was tasty Side note, I'm mat at Shane in the chat because he just said that sweet Caroline is the worst part of a sox game To which I said, you shut your mouth. Jame said fair. Objectively subjective. Thank you Thank you. I How Paul caps that he wrote f Such a Shane U I have been making a I've been really into syrups lately. I've been making a lot of syrups. Yeah, you do live in Canada You know, Tom yesterday texted me, Are you drunk on maple syrup because it was Canada Day and I wasn't responding to his texts? That was the third of my texts that you had not responded to That's fair. U No, I was not, but no, I've been making just purely syrupy sugar syrups.. I made blackberry syrup from the invasive Cimalan blackberries of the region That'll teach him That'll learn them And strawberry. I've been taking strawberries are in season, of course. and so I take all the tops from the strawberries and I freeze them in a container and then I take the container out and then I pour sugar in it and then it syrupifies and then I just strain all the I leave it in there for a few days Give it a couple good shakes every once in a while And then you just you can dilute it with a little water if you need to to make it more syrupy. And then you just keep it in the fridge for free.ra you strain out the leaves. Yeah, you strain out all the bits and bobs. Yeah, I use tiny you can use like cheesecloth or something like that too. Um, or like jam jam bags Well, I would use jam bags, not cheesecloth because you're not making cheese He's rolling his eyes like he's serious. It's delicious. and so I put it in sparkling water as like a little strawberry spritzer. This is a long way of saying you're still having strawberry spritzer. I am actually having crab apple vodka R now. This iss a long way of saying you're having vod having podka. There's no strawberry spritzer in this Just something I've been making a lot of lately and I still have some of the crabberry crab apples. Youve got No, I felt like too sick, dude, I'm just bad at talking. Actually, yeah, if you were good at talking, it would mean that you had had TheZomino points out correctly that blackberries aren't quite ripe yet in Seattle. That's true. This bag of blackberries has been in my freezer for two years So I had to do something with it. Make concern is seems like we to do Yeah because it was I had to make space for I had to get rid of the five point three pound bag of blackberries that I had in my freezer For more blackberries, which will be coming in the coming weeks Well You have nothing to say to that? have Nothing to say about that. There you go. All right, let's move on to the quick burns Toma Home wrote in the Quickburns section this link Did't didn't give us anything. Not even a like I like this. just just a link What are we to do I guess I'll read the link. The broken binding subub dot com slash products slash the dash rouse. Oh look, when you click on the link China Mevil's new book Sweet. This title is available to preordder for thirty two pounds until third august twenty twenty six. From the bestselling award winning master of Uncanny fiction comes a defining work twenty years in the making.ow deeply moving Cence spanning epic of grief, global tumult, and grim conspiracy Mara's life has been shaped by an unbearable loss. I'm saying it it's like MA youR. M, M? Mar? Yeah, I don't know But in the aftermath of what is apparently an ordinary tragedy, deeper stranger questions arise. Their answers may lie within the dark heart and darker history of an old soldier who shares Mars' obsessions and is violently pursued by the same unknown unquuiet forces. Ooh, unquuiet is a good word. Yeah. that. like that word That works well there Yeah, so begins the Rouse, a masterpiece unlike any other, at once a sprawling saga of the bloody twentieth century and the intimate story of two lives, their loves, regrets, and secrets, and a terrifying journey into infinite mystery Just casually also a terrifying journey into in. know Another loves, lives, regrets, secrets. Terrifingerry journey. Terrifying journeys. Yeah. So there's that's great. cool The the the this book edition, this first edition looks Beautiful. Oh it's gorgeous. Re is If you're into if you're into such hard cover things, it is a very attractive book So check it out in the show notes. It is it's it's Yeah, one of those ones that you're probably going to want to pick up in hardcover if you if you do the Dead Tree dition You know it's back What? Starlogue Star Log. Darlog the magazine and you know who's editing it Oh my gosh. Anily knew it. No one better suited for the role. I love it. Thank you Mark for pointing this one out.. Her colleagues in this endeavor will also produce a weekly podcast and a newsletter all available at good ostarlog. com Amazing. Fifty years ago, Star Log went behind the scenes. Are you just gonna read every website? Yes, first time. Now it's back. Explore it. because I think it gives nice context, Tom, okay? Yeah. It's also stealing, but, you know, it's fine I'm reading in such a way that I think is very clear that I'm reading copy from the website. Yeah. Do I need to change my p? I don't know if that's a def copyright defense Hello, I am reading the website from. D Read it backwards. our log read you because it already be. D, you're good at that Weirdly u sounds Legible. Yeah. you can kind of make sense of it. comprehensible still. Anyway. Speaking of new books, Tomahome points out that Neil Stevenson's next book is being discussed over at Harper Collins And what is it called, Tom? I'm not going to read it because you don't want me to. It's called D It's called the D It's a talk You want that D? head over to order gotta order the D for thirty two dollars. From Neil Stevenson, the number one New York Times best selling author of Po Stan. Really? Polestan and Kryptonomicon comes the second installment in his monumental bomb lightight series, a gripping tale set on the eve of World War two as nations race to find and control an elusive substance critical to building atom I feel like if I keep making this joke, he's gonna find me and beat me up Anyway, As As HapA says thirty two dollars is too much for D Pistan was very dot dot dot. L. Same You know, I H never heard of that book Pola Stan Yeah. Yeah, it didn't really get on our radar for Sword and Laser, did it No. it's the first volume of this Okay. of D. Okay.s D is second to Polistan. I guess it makes sense that they would list it. I just like really Polestan first, but I guess because D is the second book it makes That makes more sense. Yeah. you know, but calling Sing that a Neil Stevenson novel is long is like saying water is wet. Yeah, it is a little Boy, look at that, L at that sn. It sure is hard to look directly at. Yeah, it hurts my eyes Mark and Chris Kay both let us know about the twenty twenty six Leguin Prize for fiction shortlist announcement It includes Audition by Pip Adden Sun Word by William Alexander, Call in Response by Christopher Caldwell. Midnight Timetable by Bora Chung, translated by Anton H. The works of Vermmen by Hiron N Notes from A Regicide by Isaac Felman, Mad Sisters of Essse by Tashan Meta, One Message Remains by Premi Mohammad, and Slow Gods by Claire North. The twenty twenty six selection panel includes Nicolea Griffith, Matt Johnson Fonda Lee, Darcy Littlebouger, and Peter Rock Winner will be announced october twenty first, twenty twenty six Lgwins. Amazing. They cool All right, Tke says, I found out, Tke says from an Instagram post by P. Jelly Clark that subterranean press is closing down. From loccus, subterranean porress to close After a long career of publishing gorgeous limited editions, collections, art books, and novellas, publisher Bill Schafer has shared the news that sububterranean press will be permanently closing in the coming years. Subterranean intends to continue publishing work through the end of twenty twenty seven, which may bleed into twenty twenty eight as we wrap things up, Schafer says. I thought we talked about this already. I think we did. I think we did mention it before, but I think now there's more details with thising. Yeah Got it. Yeah, that's sad. That is sad Bumber Um Yeah, it's It's a hard business probably. don't we don't know the details of the why, I think, unless it's in the u blog posts, which I can't read anymore because I'm not allowed to read them So I guess I'll never know. What's in the blog post? I can't read't I'm not allowed to read things out loud. you said So how will I know? Read it quietly to yourself I don't want to's boring podcasting. You were reading Tryke's post. I know, but Tryke copied it from the blog post. So Well then maybe Tryke should get arrested for copyright infringement. Okaykay? Maybe it's Tryke's problem now Actually that was the Lcust Mag post Is this the loophole we need? Is like we just get No, it just implicates right now. Tabahomei says that Trike laundered it Yeah, tri laandering. That will save us. That'll save us. All right, thanks everybody. Let's hop into Barrier Sword, which is our feedback from the audience Kevin writes I was going to say something rude about why romanticy readers like Red Rising But instead, I'll just say, that Red Rising could have been worse if the idiot girl from Fth Wing showed up moaning on and on about how much she hated that guy because of something something. but he's so hot that even though she hates him, he makes her mo the regions to which John replied I haven't read Fourth Wing' Romantasy really isn't my thing But this comment is making me reconsider that decision as it made me laugh out loud. See, Kevin, that's what happens. He talks back on stuff and as the opposite effect. Suddenly you've Streisand affected it and now John's going move fourth wing You know, honestly, I think that Violet would Vile Soringale could have ficked some shit in Red Riseing quite honestly I think she would have. Yeah. those losers to task Maybe I think so. That's what I think. Yeah Ruth says, Good to hear Tom singing another K pop bop on the show. Boom pala, boom pala boom palaa booom pala boom pala boom pala. You can't hold on to the clouds in the air Well, that would be impossible because they're not solid, they're gaseous You can't hold guess with your hands, boom, boom That's not the song actually. So I think the translation was wrong. Yeah, goo ahead. It's an English song but I mean actually there's Korean Allan says, did Veronica call there is no antimetics division? There is no antim metrics division That sounds more like a shadowy group opposing SI units to which John replied, There is a panoply of such groups in the UK, all in favor of, and I'm being very kind in my language here, legacy imperial measurement systems anti metrics. Sometimes I feel as though Canada is very confused about their stance on the metric system. Oh really? Oh, yeah. yeah Yeah, because sometimes it's like So kilometers in distance, fine But like they don't use They don't use kilos. They don't use kilograms. They use pounds Yeah, like your weight as a human is into pounds. But heavy things are in kilograms kilograms Yeah There's a whole there's a whole confusion to it. Yeah, there's a I don't understand Long distances are measured in time Yeah, that's kind of a modern era thing. We do that too. We not you U I still I still want to do a close up investigation of why it is that America switched Grams. for cocaine for things. Coccaine medicines, like we're fine with Gram. All these anti metric people in the United States, but then Grams. Oh, yeah Gams is fine. I don't a problem with Grams Is it just like smaller things are harder to measure with With ounces. Yeah Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Grahams just make more sense than that. I it's using cook more sense We do all of our measurements for cooking now in grams. Like you just measure everything on a scale, We convert all of our recipes into grams. I'm horrible I'm a horrible osin As I've said before id muchuch prefer using meillow leaders If I get a recipe that calls for milliliters, I'm like, heck yeah Thats. you're my guy I understand this. Tw hundred milliliters makes perfect boom Perfect sense om I have to measure things fluffy because I do not know how to cook well So like me not measuring things makes me very uncomfortable. I'm not a tasteist. Let's not gate keep measuring I like measuring ong to measure You also use a scale to make coffee Toffee says, meanwile, gets a scale to make coffee Yeah All right, that was fun. Okay, let's see. Okaykay So if you're not reading the Barrier swword forum in the disiscord, you miss this from Yon who was reposting from generenal. What I posted was actually the third version. and the first version, donut, wait, what is this in reference?ust read it, just read it. Okay From what I posted was actually the third version. In the first version, Donut wore a royal cape. So I did specify in the second image for Tom to be carrying, quote, a black and beige and white tortie Persian cat with a pink of purple tiara and sunglasses, but no other clothes. And the AI created this If you go to the discord and look, it's a picture carrying a c with no clothes on Okay, you have no cl. I have no You have no clue And the cat is artfully positioned Scrolling through the messages. Oh yeah, I should have put the link to the message in there's Not yet finding the messages of Nakedar. It's in it's in the quQick Burns Oh, it's in the quickburn.. I was looking through general Or not in the quick burn, sorry, in the barrier Sord. It's in the barrier Sord. What section of the show are we in? barrier sord. Where the b Yeah And the the barrier. Yeah. you found it Sorry I'll add the link Add the link Everybody can see that Meanwhile, I'm a stride mongo looking adorable. You're the same in both, basically, but it's the unfortunate language of but no other clothes version, donoughuts not wearing any clothes. No, in the first the first version is the second version He posted that version and then said, by the way, there was an earlier version. withith Naked Tom. Great. Very funny. All right. And then finally, today, Eron Bell says I am ninety percent confident that the Slow Wings episode had a fast food ad for me. I was mildly amused by that. Does the editor choose where the ad break goes or is it entirely out of their hands? Okay So Technically I can choose where the ads go We have not done a very good job of leaving space for those would we talk? Yeah Yeah no we need to do we need to do that, don't we Okay, hold on, hold on. this is We are going to put an ad right hereere Everyone treats summer like it owes you happiness, long days, pool parties, your best life on a loop. So what does it mean when you feel worse? The summer blues are real. It's why summer is one of the busiest stretches of the year for people starting therapy. Grow Thrapy is here for all the moments when you decide you want more, more support support, more clarity, more tools. Gro connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. The therapist you want takes your insurance on G. Gro accepts over one hundred twenty five insurance plans. Sessions average twenty one dollars with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan Visit growthapy d. com slash Acast today to get started. That's growtherraapy d. com slash Acast Gthapy d. com slash ACast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with prorogressive save over nine hundred dollars on average. Pop over to progressive dot coma answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, ninety nine percent of their auto customers earn at least one discount Progressive. com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average twelve months savings by nine hundred and forty six dollars by new customers surveyed who saved with prorogressive between june twenty twenty four and may twenty twenty five. Potential savings will vary. Do you keep hearing podcast ads? like this one, for example But always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're ACast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget, and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at aast dot com slash advertise. Okay, now I'll be able to see that dead space in the audio file and I'll be able to slide it over there and say stick in there, my guy So apologies for that. But I want to know like is it is it like mid sentence? L do they cut us off mid word? Like put it wherever, wherever you put it, that's what it does. No, can they automate it if you don't do that. Yes, if you don't move it, it just shows up in places. I haven't moved it since the first. That's why it's showing up in weird places. You have to move. I know, I know I'm saying's I'm lazy And I'm wondering you've been you've been relying if you've been relying on them to place it. It's not placed. It's just automatically put in the same second marker every time So that means it's interrupting us in the middle of words and stuff Well, you know, Tom, when you signed me up for this, don blame me. ten You're the expert And ads. I apologize N'm just a girl stand I thought you were making fun of what I was gonna say and I was very confused why you thought I would say I'm just a girl for a second It'sard that's a Barbie sing, that's Barbie, Matt Barbie or. I think that's Oppenhammer That's a direct quote from Oppenheimer. Math is hard. What have I become How does science work? All right. Thank you, everybody for contributing stories and links to Barrier Sword and QuickBurns. If you want to do so you could head over to our discord or our goodoodreads. Let's jump into the book of the Mth discussion. That was a sentence It sure was We are kicking off our July read, a midnight pastry shop called Hao Tong by Lee Anhua, translated by Sin JZg and it is so far proving to be one of our most popular reads toonate Early returns are people like this except Yon who I think generally likes it did have a very good point about one of the early legal premises in the book because the whole Jack a copy setup is that a woman inherits bakery from her grandmother Right And it's I won't get into spoilers, but it's sort of a offer she you know like she has to take over the bakery. And Joon was like, wait, couldn't she just disclaim the inheritance and, you know, not get pulled into the home mess? And we're like, yeah Probably So this fails as legal fiction for sure. fine. You know, you got to have that suspension of disbelief once in a while. Yeah. it's okay. Jan is saying like I like the book. I just have a very small German objection to the legal, which is awesome Awesome, that is great. We are yeah, I've kicked it off. I think I'm like on the fourth story now. Yeah, story. Its not exactly a collection of short stories, but it's kind of a collection of short stories because you have an ongoing story between these vignettes from people who visit the bakery, and each vignette is its own little story That's right And so yeah, we'll be discussing that more in depth on the twenty second so because Tom's gonna to be away traveling to Germany. Germany and England. and Switzerland Where are you why where are you going? Wh are you going those places? What's youre visiting Yan? Are you visiting Jan? I'm actually helping Yan disclaim an inheritance. I have to be a thir in person uh No, we are going Eileen is I like to say she's covering the BTS concerts because she posts about them. But yes, we're going to see BTS in London and Munich Wait, so what are you going to Japan That's at the end of the month for the tickets that we won to see us. You have to you were traveling that much, Munch Oh my God, that much I'm going to Munin and Mn And Oh no, the crab apples. crab apples are kicking in now. Ara apples are kicking in. . U Zomino asks, how do you say Hua Wa Tong? A I it's I put a little pronunciation guide to Korean words because there's a bunch of Korean words in this book. and when they Romanize Korean words, they really look daunting Um, but it If you were to see them spelled in Hungo, the Korean alphabet, they're much shorter And there's just not a good way to represent all the sounds exactly the same. So what I suggest is like imagine spaces or even if you need to, put dashes in between the syllables and treat them each syllable as one And suddenly, Hua Dong becomes one And that's if you I think that may help some people to just kind of break it up like that Amazing Well, thank you for doing that. I think that will be helpful I'm reading it with my eyeballs, not my ears. so I'm missing all of the pronunciations So I'll look that up before we discuss it later in the month Yeah. and It's really interesting how the translation is handled because All of the foods and everything are left in their Korean names and then kind of described. so that you know what they are. I really like the way they did that. So they're not hiding, it's not like Korean dumplings, you know, it's monond. And then they tell you, oh, it's like a dumpling with some pork in it or whatever I have to go into the city a couple days before our next episode And I'm wondering if there's if I can find a Korean bakery that I could go to and pick up some of these for like a little sample. Oh that would be so cple things for the show. ye Like you have to find a traditional Korean bakery. There's a lot of Korean bakeries that make croissants and stuff, but yeah Yeah, finding finding if anyone in anyone in Sord and Laserand knows knows a place in the Greater Vancouver area. Let me know. There's got I'll try to go check it out. Yeah. I'm sure I haven't Googled yet. I'm assuming I can find that. But if you have recommendations for places you really like, let me know. That would be super fun. Anyway, midnight pastry shop called Paa Dong is Kind of a ghost story horrorish premise, but it's not terribly scary. And it's definitely got a fantasy otherworldly spiritual element. That's one of the threads I started at Discord is like, do you think this is genre fiction because the stororyies come and go aren't particularly genre, but the frame story is, everyverybody seems to be cool at that No, I think it's a nice it's a nice change. you know, I think it's definitely definitely on the outskirts of what we kinds of things we normally pick, but it's good to have that variety. Just like in your desserts. Yeah. Now we have to finally do our discussion on reed Rising Wow, it's your pick I know I'm so beaten down on this book. Really why I don't know, man. Everyone hated it. I thought it was fine. Yeah There are some negative feelings. I don't feel like people hate hated it I feel like some people hated it. There was a lot of picking on it though There wass a lot of picking. Yeah. So Jason Beast as a narrator sucked. I don't A lot of people really liked the narrator. I feel like the narrator people liked. I had a hard time with the narrator at the beginning and then I got used to the way that he spoke and I got veryising I' just read I'm just trying to make my way. There was a graphic audio version. No, I didn't do the graphic audio version. I didn't know that. That is cool. It Ale like Shane. I did hate it, but I wasn't trying to impose that on anyone. It's my own hate Its not Just Shane, you're not the only one. and I feel like I almost hate it in hindsight now. Like it it's like colored my memory. I not be one of the crowd Fine. I've been peer pressured into hating I did learn a new phrase reading this book from the audience, which I think a lot of people will be surprised. I didn't know already, which is the term fridging And it was coined by Gail Carriger And it is the concept of a tyypically a female character being essentially sidelined as the justification for a male character to kind of go on their quest and like to find for vengeance or think it's stored in the fridge?? Well, that literally happens, I guess in in I'm forgetting what the actual novel was or who what it was from. There's There's a character who's girlfriend, it's a comic book Yeah, what comic book was it? It was like Green Lantern, thank you, Jon U It was an issue of Green Lantern where the spoilers, the Green Lantern's girlfriend gets killed by the villain and shoved into a fridge and he has to find her body in the refrigerator C scale simimone not go That's not what I read earlier. I I distinctly remember it being I believe you. I believe that you believe that, okay, Gail Simone, interesteresting. Okay. so perhaps I had the wrong Gail. I could have sworn I saw that was Gail Cargter. Maybe I read it miss mayaybe it was misattributed in I read it in because I really I know she's a I know she's a comic book writer Don' gs blame me. Gails blame me U That's our title. Don't gals playade me They really like the O no, the Crab apppples as well as another title option Anyway, we have choices here. Yeah, we got ch. Yeah, veryer good. But anyway, so there was like, was EO fridging. Was that a was that a fridging? or was she enough of a fleshed out in order to You know not, what's funny is And we are going to be spoilery about Red Rising. So if you don't want to be spoiled, at this point, you might want to put yourself in the fridge or just, you know step away from the podcast Um I feel like she was the deepest at the very end Like the character suddenly got given a whole lot more depth. at the very end, which is something that happens to characters regularly where you're like, you know, you think they're a shallow character and then turns out, o, a lot of that was motivated by the step that we didn't know. And there's nothing wrong with that. But yeah, I do feel like I was a little I did not entirely understand the motivations until later when it's like, Oh, she's part of that family. Suddenly a bunch of stuff clicked in into place for me Mhm. Mhm Right. That was major. No you were talking about Mustang. I was talking about Eo. Oh, you're talking about Eo. you're talking about the wife. I'm sorry. I just assumed Mustang for some reason. You did say Eo and No, Mustang was pretty fleshed out. Yeah was he was. I mean That's a sacrificial character and I think It sounds like and I need to familiarize myself more with the concept of fridging. It sounds like it fits the literal definition of it, but I don't I don't know that there's anything wrong with someomeone dying and that's a motivation for a character I think that becomes a problem if that's your only female character and your only female POV Yeah And then it becomes, did Mustang have a strong enough POV to make it so that EO isn't just a fridge, that EO is more of an inspiration Mhm Man, Mustang's arc was really interesting. I thought I actually liked her. The reveal of her being the Jackal's twin sister. Yeah. was like that got me pretty good. I was like,, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, sorry. I know we were talking about Eo and I thought we were talking about Mustang, but that's what I was trying to say is like at the end, I was like, oh, crap have changed a lot of my thoughts about mustustangsly. Yeah. And then when she comes back, like he thinks that she's betrayed her. Yeah and And she doesn't misjudge her. like okay. You didn't, you didn't believe in her. And she's like, yeah, I kind of knew you wouldn't believe in me ass I work I mean to In fairness for What's his face? Darrow Darow Jry U Clarence Darreow anymore. Oh Like that is a pretty he's been through some crap. He's been through some crap, like sure. there He had a hard he did had some hard in his life and a lot of pain and a lot of heartache. And so for him to be like, oh my God, like she played the long con on me. Like I how did I miss this? It's It's reasonable for him to believe that. right Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I wasn't sure I didn't believe it I I I didn't believe it. I'm like, I don't think she portrayed him. But I was starting to doubt. I was like, Yeah,be I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong too. Yeah. I mean, the book is dark enough that that's like not crazy, right But I was happy. I was actually really glad that she came back and yeah. That was and that was a nice bit of reveal too when she walks in the room gives a look And's like You you later know she's like, oh, it's my brother. fuck. Right Yeah. Right. Like o spaghettio. But you don't get to know that at the time. I'm like, ooh, I like that. I like that subtle piece of like What was that? like as the reader? you're like and of course Darow too, like what was that? U And then it turns out to be something pretty weighty. I love that bit Yeah. Okay, so let's read some comments here. Stehven says I am seventy percent in. hope we didn't spoil the ending for you there, Stehven. It could be like the Dresden files where the first two books were okay, but the series hits its stride in book three For me, it was grapes of wrath to So I Pig Malian My fair lady to Lord of the Flies. I did buy Book two in the series when it was on sale, which I've heard say is a market improvement Yeah. I think, um I think I can see what people are saying like like that reveal at the end kind of is like to me is like the tease towards I had to do a lot of YA stuff here, but don't worry. R. I'm got to get deeper Um or at least what? Here's Brown thought was YA stuff because you can do deep YA stuff Um Anyway, I kind of like this grapes it's Grapes of Wrath when he's like, you know, joining the resistance and fighting the power. and then it's Pigmalian when they're trying to turn him into a gold and then Lord of the Flies when they're like left to their own devices I feelelt like that Ccept was a little over dramatic Like the rich people just leave their children to kill each other. like I know, right? like It gave stakes But also it made the gold system seem a little less privileg likeike why would they even need to callull their young if they were so like I mean, it's eugenics, I guess at the Yeah It's like it's like U genetic superiority taken to the extreme survival of the fish. It's like the it's like the U I almost said the Valtee. It's not the Valte. What what's the alien species in and invincible that yeah, invincible so good, but the the alien species that is the the viltrites, than you Shane. Vltrites. The Viltramites, that's why I wanted to say the Vale. Yeah The Viltrites are do the exact same thing basically. They like They basically there's a whole scene where the leader of the Vtramites calls like, you know forty, thirty percent of the whole planet. And's like now we're stronger. Like they just has them all fighting I know like you. thirty Yeah Like now the strong have literally survived. so our genetics are going to be superior for you know, they're space Nazis all over again. Everyone everyveryone hates a space Nazi Everyone should hate a regular Nazi too Um Not E Ed writes. This is the first Sord and Laser book since I returned to the podcast with hexologists I have abandoned without finishing I've just completely lost interest in it I thought the initial concept of oppressive government keeping its citizens in slavery while they live in luxury was a great one, especially with the lying part about terraforming of the planet. although I did see the twist coming I also love the bit where he was transformed into a gold But since the passage section, the whole hunger game style challenges has completely lost my interest. I simply don't care what happens to any of the characters. I just think this section has been going on far too long I notice that I'm just putting the audio book on to finish it rather than actually enjoying it So for the first time in ages, I've decided to simply abandon a book Anyone else feel the same way? And sorry about the lack of spoiler hiding. I can't work out how to do it on my phone Okay, you just undermine everything else you said, not so red Ed. Just don't spoil then if you can't. An anyway, sorry Anyway It is hard to do on the phone. I've heard. Howre you possible to do on the phone I got to do it on the website Allegedly I've never tried. Yeah, I think I did like some of the side characters. I actually liked I don't I will not remember all of their names, but His his friend that was like sneaky and heidy and good at killing people. Yeah the wolf killed his his little rogue friend. Yeah. Yeah, I liked him a lot and is u I liked I liked, um Oh my Godd, whyy am I immediately forget Forget mustustang. I liked mustustang. Mustang I didn't like most of the other characters. Wow. Tit of sign had four Yeah That is the most uneven part of this novel. And I understand why it's going to lose a lot of people including Not so Red Ed Um I think that it Definitely went from like, ooh, I want to fight the power novel to like, okay And so we're gonna we're going to embed someone. That's interesting. The whole like what do they call it? the carving uh carving someone into becoming a gold. That was really interesting And then you got a little look at the society like, oh, there's golds and golds, right? There's pixies and aren't really looked on down you know, they're looked a little down upon And then we get into the school and it just suddenly changed hon And I think that's what threw a lot of people off Well, because there's like these these like these proctors that are like floating around like Greek Roman gods just like basically overseeing everything. L basically cospling And it started to feel a little like a nineteen fifties novel with all the Greco Roman analogies and everything. Yeah But I once I adapted I mostly liked it. I'm like, okay, I'm basically reading a new story But okay. And I think that's probably why a lot of people like it in the in the second and third books's because you're out of the school now, right? Well, I guess he's not out of the school, but you're obviously not going to be doing hunger games anymore. That part is done Yeah, and then the ending where he commits himself to Yeah. first he hates the most That was but you got to do it. getet close to your enemy, you know? There's a lot of good stuff in this book. And I think the tone change is probably him feeling the pressure. like I guess they want me to make a young adult book. so I'll make it all school battle stuff The Greco Roman stuff is not wrong, but it's just a little clumsy because it's been done so much So sometimes it struck me as a little like,, know, okay, Apollo did this and all of that. And sir Kind of When he first goes into the school, I thought that was good. Like when we're getting the arrangements and all the battles and how the Mars school, the Aries school is very warlike. I'm like, okay, yeah, no I dig this. They put all the like troublemakers together because they they're going battle and that's true to that school, the school of Mars And then it kind of bogged down for a while And I think that's where probably not so Red Ead and others started to be like, where are we going? What are we doing? Like it did it did take a while to get to Okay, now he's on his own with Mestang and they're they're just not even going to be a part of a house and that now we're back to a little of that resistance vibe. Okaykay, you know, and then it started to pick back up for me and I liked it to the end Yeah, I think it just feels yeah, there were just some clumsy elements, I think, for me, personally. But overall, now that I'm talking about it more, I was like, oh, I didn't actually hate it that much That is okay Yeah but more on that later. Okay, Licorice says I've seen a few places where romanticy readers proclaim their love for this book. I can see it being something that is aimed at a YA audience, but I don't see the romanticy appeal I read it a while back but I don't recall any spice Some of the posts I've seen emphasize how everything our protagonist does stems from love for his wife and how he iss willing to destroy civilization for her memory. I guess they don't think of it as fridging I'm just confused by the popularity of this book in general and with book talkalk in particular Clearly, I'm not the target audience. What am I missing There were some comments here. I mean, we've touched on this a little bit So I won't get into it either. Ruth, Tiltab Ruth, says, notot a romantasy person, but there seems to be a preference for dark romance in the same circles. I feel it could fit more in that skin and there is romance with that horse girl. I think would also fit. Okay I this is not dark. romantasy Dark romanticy is like a different thing For sure. It's yeah, you wouldn't mistake it for YA. No No It's the opposite of that. Yeah U so that's but calling her a horse girl, I think is hilarious.. I I think people I don't know if you're giving Darow enough credit as a character for why he is doing what he's doing because I don't I think if he was only doing it for EO's memory, then it starts to feel a little more like what I'm beginning to understand of as fridging Um He kind of doesn't want to do it at all U even despite what EO says Right? And so it's a bit of a begrudging thing, which I understand you can be like, C, so the only reason he's doing it is because of her memory, but it's more about U They've broken me It literally killed me And I have nothing left to lose So her memory is a big part of that, but there's so much more that you are not that is in the book and you're not giving credit to that is motivating him. Like he is mivated by a very wide anger that isn't just about Eo Yeah, no, it's like he has found out all of this stuff like in the aftermath Yeah is and her death And they killed his father, they killed his wife, they killed him. like his whole world that he like horn Reason for all of his people Everything was a lie Yeah, yeah, yeah He Like he's not making way for the terraforming of Mars. That shouldit has been terraformed It is A whole whole ass society And yeah, I think that's a lot of that shock is part of part of his rage there for sure Damahome says, Maybe they're calling it romantasy because they mean Roman fantasy Holy gos, that is so funny. That is like So funny. This are really good. It's I mean, I cannot There's no way that's what it is, but have title It's a miscommunication fantasy