Youth Perspectives on Digital Life

We looked at screen time. What was your screen time over the weekend? Nine hours. Nine hours. So suddenly you're going to have a lot more time to fill. And what will you do ? Stare at a wall. Stare at a wall. Okay . Hello. Now welcome to the Trail where we despair and make sense of stuff altogether. We're sort of like a support group for people who follow politics despite all available evidence suggesting they shouldn't. I'm Marina Bergison. And I'm Jeff Forte and this week in previous eps, we've covered what haven't we bloody covered? We've covered everything that's going on in the States, Trump's shitty deal with Iran and how ridiculous it all is, his sort of vandalism of the White House. We had a more serious in flavor episode on Wednesday about all the atrocious pock roms in Belfast. So it's been all over the shop. But in this episode we are going to talk about what else is going wrong for Starmer ? Well, apart from absolutely everything . And also, of course , we're on Friday now, but time of record, we're heading towards the Makerfield by election. So we might have some results by now except we don't because we're not psychic. So we will cover all of that next week and just keep bloody crossed and find out whether Burnham has won and therefore has the opportun ity to come after Starmer. By the way, Starmer has made very clear. He put out a statement and Robert Peston covered it. He's not going quietly. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's right. He was saying if Bernard wins, then he's probably going to appoint him in the cabinet as I think culture minister and that labour should be concentrating on sort of the Manchester Mayor all fight that will happen over there. So yeah, he's not he's not budging, is he? Which is weird if I was in my blood, God had enough. I know. What more do you want to do? I know, I know. Anyway, talking of old Ernam face , Russell Caine over on Instagram does do a very, very good impression of him So good in fact that he's Andy Burnham before Andy Burnham has the chance to be Andy Burnham. He actually wrote I honestly do believe Andy Burnham is the best person for the job but it's just so easy to do for,give me com edy gods. How weird is this? I made this video before Andy Burnham put this out. First Andy, then me, weird or what? Now this has been a tough campaign session. I did the Manchester ten K this morning. fifty three minutes, not bad . But coming up and down the hills in Hindley after that has been a bit tiring. It's also been a difficult twenty four hours. I've had all kinds of things thrown at me, all kinds of accusations of this, that and the other . The thing is I could reply in kind and start point scoring about others, but you know, I'm going to stick to my promise that I said to you at the start of this campaign. I'm just going to talk about what I'm going to do. Well, that was a tough morning. I've been lifting weights and you know, I've been lifting a lot of weight this week on the campaign and I've had all kinds of things coming at me and nasty names and implications and I could respond but that's what a politician would do and I'm not a politician . I'm just a normal bloke who wants an easy life just strolling down the street and just things happening to me in a natural working class way. So I'm not going to respond . I'm going to stick to me guns. I'm going to say what I believe in what's right for the little on the corner and Mr Johnson's shop. Hello, Mr. Johnson I know so I'm not going to get involved in any of that nonsense and I'm going to finish my run , thank you. He's very good. He's very, very good. The thing is about, I mean, this is just such a sort of basic analysis, but if you've got Starmer and Burnham side by side looks wise, they're both quite good looking centrist dad types, right ? Except that Burnham does have so much more character when he speaks and he's just that bit more engaging and also if he ends up prime minister for me, it'll be nice because I'll occasionally is when I'm listening to him I'll close my eyes and pretend it's Gary Barlow because that would be great. I'm gonna take that fan. I think he's a lovely guy . I think he did avoid attedacks at some point, but can help . I think it's all good. Anyway, it smells Right, Stanby's having a great time, isn't he? Oh, wonderful aging by the day. Yes. And he's got his well, he's had a rather substantial headache of late in the form of defence. So politics Joe wrote, Breaking. Defense Secretary John Heley has resigned, stating that the long awaited defense investment plan falls well short of what is required for defense and the country at this dangerous time . And that was then followed super swiftly by Al Karens, who had resigned from Kiestam's government, joining former Defense Secretary John Heley in criticizing the government's defense spending review. Yeah , and it's had really mixed reactions, lots of people saying, Well, flipping out, you're there to do a job. There's no point throwing your toys out of the pram. Just for God's sake, what are you doing? And a lot of people I'm talking about the populace now just couldn't give a shit about events because I think everybody's feeling so skinned and they just don't see it as a priority. I think in people's heads and again, it's quite basic, but I totally get it. There's a bit of me that feels like this too. It's like how many bombs and weapons do you need when nobody actually wants to use them? And I know that sounds really, really simplistic. And of course when you speak to military people, it's much more complex than that, so we'll get into all of it. But NCW Nick said we spend more on defence as a percentage of GDP than the majority of all other European countries. So it's actually in keeping with our size. We simply aren't a big player on the world stage that requires the kind of spending that the companies contracted to supply the military actually want for their profits and shareholders. Yeah. So my head just goes to you how much money is like goes to defence, to military, to arms . Why ? Why? I know it's a very utopic thing, but can you imagine if we just didn't have to think about that, all of the good that money could go into and yet and yet we do. China however which is quite surprising doesn't spend anywhere as much ne.ar So Nicki J sixayty three point ed out China spends around one hundred and sixty pounds per capita on defence compared to the UK's nine hundred pounds per capita. Yeah, but they are so overpopulated. This is true. And there are undeniable issues at stake here . Can't play this down. No, no, no, absolutely. So we're going to get into some sensible takes in just a second, but first let's listen to someone very, very pompous being quite mad . This is Lord Allen West . In the old days he'd have been Lord of the week . So he's an ex navy chief and he surprised quite a few people with his take when he went on the radio to say this. All very well having nice funding for breakfast for children at school, which is important stuff and other things. But if that means you have to fight a war and lose it, and you have Russians stomping down your streets shooting the children who would have been having breakfast and that sort of thing. It's not very good not a very good swap, is it? All right, bloody yell, Danes Baptiste said from somebody who's never missed breakfast in his entire life, nor second to breakfast, eleven zero's, brunch, lunch, afternoon, advertisers and everything . An actual lord Yeah, actual lord said that. Yeah, Carol Alderman just put good grief. Yeah. Ian Dunt has been excellent on this topic by the way. And again, I cannot recommend his substack enough. He basically talked about the week contained two stories. You've got the one that took place in the streets of Belfast and the other in the hallways of Whiteshall. He says one concerned race riots and the other a defense funding plan. But they were in fact the same story. They both concerned security, one at home, the other abroad , and they were both the result of a prime minister who refuses to lead. He goes on to say Sama's government has now had two years to grapple with the issue and it's done nothing to control X as an obvious out and broad daylight threat to national security. The site is being used to inject far right ideas into the mainstream, to spread violent ethno nationalism and to coordinate pogroms. And then early this month, the Home Office banned two linguistically incontinent anti Israel leftists from entering the country because of potential risks to the UK public good , but apparently allowing the full and unhindered operation of a fascist coordin ation website is completely fine. Yeah , but a lot of evidence points towards Russia being a threat that we cannot deny exists. And you only need to look at things that have happened on this soil and also think about the Mueller report in the . The Salisbury poisoning? The Salisbury poisonings, and of course the famous Russian report that we never really got to see, the one that was supposed to be looking into whether Russia had been involved in undermining our democracy. And do you remember it came out all redacted? Yeah, and Putin how old is Putin? one hundred and seven, I don't know. Oh my god. And anyway, and obviously, you know , I mean, Ukraine are just amazing. You think they're still being battered by Russia. But yeah, I guess like I mean, Lord Allen West put it so comple tely irresponsibly , but that is the thinking behind many people's desire to really, really upholster, if you like, our military is to protect ourselves from Putin. But also maybe it's not all about hardware either. It is about cyber attacks and intelligence and all of that. And we've only had this week as well, Russia attacking was it submarines off our coast? Frigates. Frigates. Yeah, so military sources tried to calm fears after a Russian frigate fired warning shots at a British yacht in the channel yesterday. Yeah . So there you go. And you know, there is also like the fact of the matter is what the fuck do we know? We don't. We're never going to know what M I five of feeding back to the Prime Minister. We're not going to ever know for obviously national security purposes . What the truth is, unless Sirapochin asks? Unless Sira Pochin who did this, she stood up reform MP and asked a really stupid question in Parliament and they just were like, You're not allowed to talk about that here. Just going to read the rules basically . But Hotsarony said, there are two reasons why defense is such a priority right now. Tory cuts to the defense budget are biting . And then the president of our so called closest ally appears to be working for the enemy. And the logical response to both those challenges is to move closer to the EU on the Russia threat . There were some great reporting done actually by the BBC and perhaps that lands quite how severe this threat is. So the BBC article was Russia was behind arsen attacks targeting PM UCB reveals. So do you remember back it was a few months back I think now and there were several arsen attacks aimed at the PM or sort of near the PM and what we've learned from this report is that it was a twenty two year old Ukrainian builder who according to the BBC report knew as much about the PM as a bullet knows about its targets. So the investigation found that the arson attack was just one part of an extensive campaign of sabot , provocation and lies leading all the way to the Russian state. So these Russian operatives they ran their sabotage and profocation campaign remotely . So as well as his arsenal attacks, they basically unearthed this direct action group, which is run by Russian operatives . And this is essentially a social account created online to cause division among ordinary people in the U K . So this direct action is meant to look like a grassroots or British thing, but it's not. And it first appeared online in autumn twenty twenty four after the riots that followed the Southport murders and its propaganda expl oited images from that all of that disorder. And the social media channels that belonged to it, which the posters were advertising, featured videos branding Sakira a traitor, promoting hatred of Muslims, and off ering money for violence and arson , including attacks on mosques and police. And Russia is behind it. Yeah. Just another note. I mean, this was a headline only a couple of days ag o. Tommy Romson was stopped at Heathrow by police under counter terrorism laws and had his phone seized on Saturday afternoon. This is on the BBC. Yeah. Yeah, he was stopped after returning to the UK from Russia via Turkey , like what is he up to? Yeah, what is he up to? And he posted a video on X showing him meeting Elon Musk's father in Moscow. So look, I mean you don't have to be plotty Jessica Fletcher to work out. Oh, can we have some Jessica Fletcher music? Yeah, we put it in . So you don't have to be Jessica Fletcher to work out. So much of this is incredibly murky . And but you know, at the same time, John Heley, this defense guy who's resigned , as reported by the fraud, he wanted to increase defense spending by twenty eight billion a year . Okay, so up from sixty one billion to eighty nine billion. That's an increase of forty percent. There is a part of me that's like, where are they supposed to get this frigging money? They've already made a pledge to NATO that they will up it, but we also know there's no money, there's no money. So it's all rather complicated and absurd. And the fraud wrote it is an absurd ask because then the UK would be the fourth largest military spender, bearing in mind what tiny little island we are and how skinny we are and how Brexit we are now as well as in removed from the EU in the world after, the US, China and, Russia, vast amounts of that would be siphoned off by rapacious price gouging contractors in the most corrupt industry in the world, and none of it would help. In fact, it would mostly worsen the biggest threat to global security , which is climate change. And the right wing press will try and present it as utterly reasonable , but it's a ludicrous cash grab . So I don't know. Can I just sidebar something on Tommy Robinson there which just reminded me. So you mentioned he was detained at Heathrow and he made a tweet about it. He said how his phone had been seized by the police and he said so here we go again looks like more defense and caught these for fuck's sake. Please help kick off my legal fund for defense here. So straight away on the griff. Straight off and I saw the saddest thing. So someone had quotes tweeted him. I don't know the name looked like a middle aged guy, British guy. I think from his bio and from his picture, you know, I think he might have been a sandwich short of a picnic, but he basically said I've just deposited seventy five quid mate. It was all I could give you. Not gonna be able to pay for my lad's birthday . So sad. Seventy five quid donations your own because you're the only person you said 'cause you're the only person trying to get our country back. Oh god's, only there one way we can end this section for frogsake Okay Okay , we're going to talk now about the social media ban that Labour is introducing for under sixteen's and it's pretty obvious what they what they want to do and why. want They to protect children from online harms, cyber bullying, grooming, and their mental health risks. But we're going to get into it. Firstly, here's Anna Williamson to give you a vague lowdown on what is going on . Oh my goodness, Hold the Front Page, the government have only gone and done it. They've gone and banned social media for under sixteen. Not quite sure when this is coming into effect. I do believe possibly early next year, maybe sooner and not sure yet. Many platforms been affected by this .are Antpply kids YouTube I'm hearing is stained due to educational needs, but yeah, Snapchat, TikTok , Instagram, all going to be affected by this band that has now actually been put in place today . Many people are for it, many parents concerned about children's mental health , the addictive nature of the algorithms and of the doom scrolling , leaving them wide open to possible harm from people that are on the using these platforms , but also some people are saying not all platforms. Should it actually be the tech companies that are held and the individual platforms held responsible? And should an outright ban actually not be appropriate? Yes. So a few questions. there So the apps that will be affected are Snapchat, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and X, and then YouTube is also going to be banned for under sixteen's, but they're going to produce YouTube kids sort of version of it designed to be safe for children. I mean, that really exists. Right. So I think what's really interesting about this so we've just been away for our friend's birthday. So there's like, you know, roughly twelve of us and a high percentage of those women that were there were mums or have nieces or whatever and nephews and so have concerns . And overwhelmingly people saw this come out be and we're delighted like great. Oh good. That sounds really , really positive. And I think that by the way, this has huge , huge support if you poll. But for me, it's probably nuance, right? But I think I understand why you just think take it away. You know, we didn't have it when we were young and it will give them back their childhood. It will free up all this time, how we supposed to police our kids all the bloody time? You can't. So just take it away, give their brains time to develop, you know, in terms of not getting addicted so quickly at a time when their prefrontal cortexes are literally developing day by day . You know, if my kid is at school and they're anxious about something, you have to go through the whole thing. Have they seen something? Have they been groomed? Have they been bullied? Has somebody said something? Have they seen something that they shouldn't and it's triggered them? Have they seen porn ? It's exhausting for parents. So first thing I want to say is I understand why most parents are really glad about this. I agree , but I feel like for me, this is like step one or point one of what should be a ten point plan to tackle this. Yes. And it is a sticking plaster solution. I'm happy. I'm grateful I welcome the sticking plaster. But if you don't do the other things, I'm sorry. There are a few things. We're just leaving our kids. They are going to what so when they get to sixteen, all of a sudden they just fall off into a cliff edge and they go into these social media sites where nothing is being done or what's going to happen is they'll go into corners of the internet that aren't regulated without us ever addressing the issue which is these tech companies who have made these addictive devices, apps, whatever and put them in our hands. And by the way, I don't know what the best approach is here, but it's not just kids. I understand why kids are being targeted here and I think it's the right thing to do, but there will be adults who are completely addicted to their phones, I think to some degree, I would say, I'm addicted. And there needs to be, I think, something done because our consumption of how glued we are to these devices which change our hearts, our minds, sell to us, take our data et cetera, et cetera, have become so integrated into our lives . It might be the first thing you touch when you wake up, it might be the first thing you go to, whatever, you bring it to the toilet with you, you look at it before you go to sleep. We've all become addicted to this thing and everything else that has an addictive nature has warning signs. Yeah, mobile phones do not. Yeah, the other thing to say is that I've got mixed feelings about this now as well because I think instantly I was like, great because as somebody called Sam said, social media amplifies narcissism, materialism, envy and division at an age when young minds are still developing and it keeps children trapped in a digital ecosystem at expense of real world experiences blah blah blah blah blah. However, Natasha Devon, this is literally what she does for a living. She goes into school, she speaks and connects with young people and she's a mental health expert and this is her f ield . And she was pointing out that a few years ago she was very pro this but now if anything she's come down on the side of being against . Another point that was super interesting . She's saying that prior to this bill going through this legislation being put through , all of this sort of army of experts have been asked to , you know, produce scientific evidence documents, essays about , you know, the pros and cons of doing this. And it's all been submitted and she's like, there's absolutely no way they would have had time to consider it properly from real experts in the field and she suggests that this is Kir Stahmer wanting to bring something out that will be popular which is his legacy because of course he knows that his premiership is probably might be over soon . And if so, then that's a shame as well, if it's not been really thought about properly . Also, as you're sort of saying, Marina, it just allows these tech companies to continue polluting these platforms because it's like, okay, well, sixteen year olds can't see it now. So fuck it, it's a free for all. And that needs to be addressed. And I would say that actually , as vulnerable as children , I think like we can see it like these young men, for instance, this whole manosphere thing, but I'm also going to say older people on Facebook who can't tell that they're just being fed algorithms and they're getting all their GB news and you can see older people being really radicalised and they're not able to disseminate between you know what they're being kind of pushed and what is real and who is speaking bullshit and who isn't? So it isn't a problem just for under sixteen. It's universal as you say. Yeah, someone did actually touch upon that with this tweet. Prashant said, If we can ban social media for the end six ofteen's, we should also be able to ban the daily mail for the over sixties , right? And there's a there is a point. There is a point there. Yeah. Do you know who was completely in favor? Was James O'Brien? Should we hear from him? Yeah. I can tell you things that will make your hair stand on end, some of which you will be aware of, some of which you won't My wife is a psychotherapist and works entirely with children . And that means that she has exposed herself to the technologies and what they are capable of doing in ways that still shock me as someone who talks about them for a living . There's a sort of flaw in the media model there , but some of the examples she's mentioned make me want to cry for young people today that there is, for example, an incredibly popular subculture on there that encourages self harm. It doesn't just encourage self harm, it glamorizes, it fetishizes self harm. There is footage of a young person walking down a tree lined avenue with beautiful music playing in the background. And in the middle of that process, and there's a trigger warning here . And remember, I'm fifty four years old and I'm talking to you. I'm not sure how old you are, but you're older than the people in these videos. They're all at school at the moment. And I'm issuing a trigger warning to you about something I'm about to say on the radio . Okay, particularly if you have experience or knowledge of self harm, I'm issuing a trigger warning to you as a fully fledged functioning adult about something I'm about to say on the radio because there's no trigger warnings on social media. And this stuff if it pops up in your algorithm and you find yourself watching it for a few more seconds than your average engagement then they will pump it into your phone day and night constantly. But let me tell you what I always do that when there's something on the horizon that I don't really want to say out loud, don't I? I distract myself deliberately trigger war . So a young woman, a teenage girl, will be walking down a beautiful bucolic idyl, a tree lined avenue, birds tweeting in the trees music, playing in the background and she will be beautiful and she will be dressed in flowing robes and looking ethereal and magical and as she walks down this idealised image she will cut herself in a way that is designed to look appealing and attractive. Yeah, and so I think that's why I return to thinking yeah, just shield them and whilst they're so many good things about being online and connection , it can just also provide so much isolation and darkness and loneliness . And actually, I feel a bit similarly to how I feel about, I know this sounds weird or strange analogy, but we've been trying to decide this year between us, although it's his decision, of course, whether my son should go to university or not . And I think at first I was sort of quite against it's just so tough, right? Just going to come out with so much debt. And we were looking at the degree that he wishes to do and it's like, is that, is it worth it kind of thing? And then , you know, at one point he was just like, Mom, I really want to go . I really want to go and I really want to study this and I really want to go here and he's got his place and I came round completely. I was like it's absolutely up to you. I said I just had to give you the kind of truth pill about you know where we're at. And then actually the more I think about it the, more fucking delighted I am that he's going to delay this shit life for three years because it's so tough . And so I'm thinking maybe if you've got three years of delay before kids are seeing this stuff, if it works and I know there are ways around it, isn't that better? And maybe in that time something will be done? Yes, I agree with that, but I feel like we're just at the wrong thing here. It's like we're going oh there's a fire over there. How can we protect ourselves from the fire versus how can we put the fire out ? Why is there content like that being made? That to me is as dangerous as other forms of content which would be criminal . Okay? It's incredibly dangerous. And there is an amazing young woman actually. She's called Adele Walton. I met her speaking at a panel at the Oxford Literary Festival a couple of years ag o, she lost her sister . She lost her sister such a harrowing story. She basically triggered directed, yeah, sorry trigger warning, her younger sister, Amy, had been directed to these extreme suicide forums that are often frequented by incels . And these incels encourage young women and girls to take their own lives. And Amy took her own life. And now her sister, Adele campaigns, you know, to make being online safer. She's got this best selling book called Logging Off. And I want to hear from her because if anyone's got a opinion worth listening to on this, it 's Adele. So this is her take on the matter and I've got to say I can curb. Jen Z who grew up on social media and the author of this best selling book Logging Off The Human Cost of our Digital World . This is my take on the UK's ban of social media for under sixteen's . A ban is only as effective as its enforcement. In Australia, despite the ban, two thirds of under sixteen's can still get around the ban and access dangerous platforms. And that's why online safety campaigners and experts like myself have been calling for safety by design , which would actually incentivise tech platforms to make their platforms safe rather than a whack a mole approach to banning d angerous platforms. A ban of this kind doesn't address the design features at the heart of Big Tech's business model which send young people towards harmful content in the first place. What is likely to happen is that young people turn sixteen and then face a cliff edge of harm where they're immersed into a digital world that is still dangerous and risky by design. The platforms that will be banned from spring twenty twenty seven for under sixteen's include the main stream social media platforms like Instagram, YouTube, Snapchat, X , Facebook . And whilst we know that these platforms are dangerous and addictive for young people , it's very likely that young people are going to be drawn towards more unregulated and sinister spaces online that won't be covered by a ban. What is really positive to see in this announcement is that the government have announced that they are going to invest one hundred thirty two point five million into youth spaces where young people can get offline and actually be in their communities . And that's so important because if we are taking away the third space that essentially is social media for young people , we need to rebuild the alternative that has been lost in the past twenty years of austerity politics. Something that I write about in the book is the importance of us continuing to apply the pressure on our government to hold big tech to account for their failings and for their continued exploitation of our vulnerabilities. What that looks like is fines when these companies do cause societal harm . Not only that, but criminal sanctions for their failings and their exploitation and abuses of our human rights. The next month will be really telling as to whether this is a genuine commitment from the UK Government to stand up to big tech or whether it is simply a political move to win votes. And we hear from some kids? Let's get down with the kids. Let's get down with the kids. They're on channel four talking to Krishna Gurum Thye and Forty sweet. It's the only escape that we have from our pretty much unsafe areas . It's gonna be so weird that they take you away from us. What about the different platforms? Which is the one you're gonna miss the most? Take because with Snapchat, I only need to communicate with my friends. My location isn't on and my block list is full. So I don't really interact with anyone that's dangerous or anything like that. So having it taken like having it being taken away , it just cuts short my communication with my friends . Do you recognize that there is a bad side socially? Yes. But I mean, you know, what a lot of experts and head teachers and parents say is that the thing that social media really does , particularly in girls is it exacerbates anxiety . Do you see that? Yes, that's why you have to surround yourself with positive things . My I block a lot of things that I don't like. What about the platforms themselves though? I mean, do you think they should be able to take on? Yeah, they need to get on and take more responsibility because to do what you're allowing your platform to be put like let's say for example you're allowing blood and gruesome stuff to be posted on your platform when you have all this guidelines and rules but you're not following it yourself. If it is definitely happening instead of more restrictions , then the government also needs to do something about knife crimes and being able to go outside, socialize, more youth clubs, more after school. Because normally like back in, I don't want to back say in the olden days , I said there were definitely more extracurricular activities and it was definitely cheaper, but these days you can't afford everything. I mean, I find it quite shocking that you say you can't go outside. It's very dangerous. It's so dangerous. Like my mum doesn't trust me not because no, she doesn't trust me. Like people around people in our area. That's just even as a group in the daytime. four o'clock in the afternoon. Yeah. And without social media, how are you supposed to know that there's dangers outside in your locarium? I do feel for them because they're kind of right. There is something gener ationally that has happened it'.s And probably because as parents, we're becoming more scared that we don't let our kids just disappear. I used to disappear, especially during the summer holidays, all day long . Yeah, I just be out, go out, come home for dinner all day long . And my mum and dad wouldn't know like I mean , I might say I'm going down. We used to hang out at my dad's allotment. That was rock and roll. Or we'd go and like just wander around town and like window shop or whatever. But will I let my kids do that twelve, thirteen? I don't know. I don't know. She's also right about there were more facilities, there were more things going on, I'd imagine after school. Well, she's still talking about the older days. We're basically talking about my youth . And yeah, there were youth clubs and we all know they were taken away. But anyway, there's a myriad of issues here. Yeah, but then also if they do just hang around the streets, they're kind of like they are labeled these s asort ofbo kids, aren't they? Yeah. You know, kids just being kids can in their very just in their existence be annoying to some people or threatening to some people. So I do feel for them. We've sort of bug at that as well for them. Anyway, very a serious discussion was had on the BBC and Scott Bryan posted this. I bet you've heard it. It's absolutely brilliant. A discussion about the social media band. We looked at screen time. What was your screen time over the weekend? Nine hours. Nine hours. So suddenly you're going to have a lot more time to fill. And what will you do? Stare at a wall Stare at a wall. Okay. I know what's a little bit sad about your mum. She won't know that she's gone viral . Good point . And she did go viral. And actually people were feeling sorry for her, or other people were saying, well, this is exactly why we need to take the phones out of their hands so they can learn to be born against, they can learn to be entertain themselves. Yeah, entertain themselves, the things I'd have to think up, the obstacle courses, the creating fashion magazines made of all bloody brochures and whatever. Oh my gosh, because we were so bored or mindful , mindful back then.. Yeah And you know, it's hard to know, isn't it that with age, you get all rose tinted? But I do think it's better. And I do also know from my experience with my own children that there have been times where something's happened on social media that has caused them upset or a feeling of phomo or a feeling of anxiety or whatever. And I know particularly my daughter's sort of eschewed it all really . She pretty much is off phone. Amazing. Quite a lot and maybe that's just how do we bottle that? I don't know, but what I will say to people is and this isn't like oh I'm so great it isn't. I think with her it's sort of just lucky where she is she's chosen that she I think she's identified that a lot of it doesn't make her feel very good . Even that's amazing to be able to understand that you don't feel good and to turn away from it. Yeah, but there was one point where I was working going into schools myself and I got the best little nugget of advice and it's like when your child gets a phone for me again that they were the last people. It was very end of year six or just before they're going secondary . Do not let them charge them in their bedrooms. Do not let them. So our chargers downstairs it was like an hour and a half before bed you weren't allowed to look at it and it was not in the room because you don't know. They've got basically a computer in their hands that like, you know, could be three in the morning if they wake up. So anyway, our little top tip there 's somebody on LBC was pointing out that very easy to get around the ban you just get a VPN, which all takes a kids will be able to do like that. I don't know what you do about that. I'm going to show you just how quickly it is to get a VPN on . I've done it. I am now in Boardman in the United States. My phone is not in London. I could circumvent any of the current rules that are being put in place. Once you've installed it, it takes two seconds to activate that and that's on any mobile device. If the government start telling us VPNs are evil, they're advising their own people to use them to protect data and security if they work from home . But then again, somebody called Chris Clement said, News just in, legal alcohol age limits set to be scrapped cause a kid can take a swig out of his nan's bottle of sherry, says LVC tech presenter. So yeah. And by Vicki Smith said, kids can take booze out of the fridge at home. The point is it's a new societal norm. Yeah, good point. Ian Dunt always finds the nuance. He said, Depressed by the ban. There are so many problems related to social media, radicalisation, hyper rich racist oligarchs, the numbing of the mind on the infant scroll, the spread of extremism, the opaque nature of campaign money online in elections , beauty standards, Chinese interference could go on and on. He's not bloody wrong , he's not wrong. But the ban, I think, is a start point for all of those things to like I was talking about my ten point plan . All of those things need to be put on that tempo point plan . And actually the extremism point is right . When we talk about extremism in this country, it's always framed as something that's a risk to people coming over here that bring their cultures or whatever and they're going to be the people that are extremists. No, no, no, no, no, no We have a huge problem of extremism and it is white young men and the daily mail . Yes. Okay, underrated and then we're going to leave you with a puddy pudding and then we'll be back next week. So Toby Gray asked I dare you to name one thing that Elon Mus k can't buy. We covered his grotesque wealth in yesterday's episode, by the way . And the Twitchy Pixie gave a list. Real friends, the actual love of his parents. Joy , people who will agree to be around him without being paid real, meaningful, passionate sex with someone who truly likes him, a personality, someone he truly trusts, a clue, and somehow, despite being a trillionaire, decent hairline. Should I continue? Yeah, he's never going to have he's never going to respect and Christopher Townsend said apparently he couldn't buy an invite to Epstein Island. True. He was quite out for going , wasn't he? Didn't get him bad and then this one's funny. Rosie Andro. I decided to finally give overnight oats a try and want absolute assault in my mouth. I've never eaten cold capukes but I imagine that's exactly what it would feel like I feel violated Rosie, yeah, you're not making them right. I quite like overnight oats. Do you make them? Yes. Sometimes what do you put on? What do you soak them in? You can put a little bit of go to TKMA there'Xs all those bottles of syrups that you put in your coffee if you have a like flavoured syrups in there. Like that doesn't sound healthy. Not sure . They're sugar free. All right. Okay, probably laced with all sorts of other stuff and you know, preservativesiv andes and addit whatever. But if you want to make them have a little bit of sweetness, put that in or some grated carrot or some desiccated coconuts we go. I don't know. I wasn't laughing at that. I'm laughing at the next one . Amy Lberger, if you listen to yesterday's and you know the ongoing saga with Trump's reflection pull, you'll understand this was on threads. I never thought I'd be cheering on Algi, but here we are. Is it alge or algae? Algae algay is the delicacy. Brilliant toe. Last one from Argos. I love a bit of good marketing bunter from these corporate brands. When they do it right, they get it right. Argos wrote, England only loses on TV's from Amazon and curries, by the way. Very good. And now we leave you with a pudding trailer. Thank you so much for listening. Oh , before we do, on Wednesday's episode, we talked about the Uganda nurse who broke our hearts because she was to flee her home and she'd lost her kids' letters and she only managed to leave with three things. I think her passport, her laptop , and her nurse's uniform . And we felt like we should do something for us. We hunted out and I've managed to track down a go fund me for her. I put it on my ex and within just an hour it's gone up by over a thousand pounds. So it's now around about the five thousand pound mark. So if you can, if you can help her, please check out the link in the episode description and yeah, do a little bit. Lovely, lovely, lovely Jubbly. We're over on Patreon if you want to hear the Troll Goss, we'll get a new one recorded at some point when we can. What else? Oh yeah, still a few show tickets available. That's in the link as well . Not that many. But ask you last . That was a silly noise sorry . Right. Okay, pudding time. It's the brilliant Marsh family . And they said, This was a fast turnaround. It's a bit like modern PMs. Here's a musical parody view of Star mer's and Labour's crisis through the lens of Rogers and Hammerstein's, the farmer and the cowman. Ye ha Kill Star is wondering how to make amends . Oh Kirstar is wondering how to make am ends Wants to fight the nation's doubt and all the try to set things out it's early season all over again and the durity boats did last for forever and the derivats were all eggshells. One last chance to win labour scored astonis dances and boating will antidery boats didn't last for ever and very much for Roman shows. One last chance to neighbor's for m of stances and boarding well I'd like to say a word for Kirstist I'd like to say a word for Kirstar He'd done his best when lots required mend ing . He didn't rest from making lots of changes just not as big once he wasn't tending . Kirstomer is a good and greedy Englishman . No matter that his manicinda st akes won't lie under oath always sees a path to growth and the rest of us just set up seeing trees Here Kistarmas wondering how we should defend O Castormas wondering how we should defend God as fans of minutes plus BAR up the bus for that don't help a scoreline of Melter Arizona Vote made his leader and a busy stoker joke is false. And Mary Guns by the right bring media starves answers whirlstone falls