The New Vibe Coding Assignment

Hello and welcome to the firstastcast F flagship podcast of the Vercell REest API. I'm your friend David Pierce, and today on the show, we have a challenge. The way this is gonna to work, we're going to do a bunch of these in a row, but the way this is gonna to work is we've gathered a bunch of people We're going to give them all a challenge and then we are going to go off for several weeks and report back on what we found Today, we are starting with two of my colleagues, Jake Kasternakis and Hayden Field, and we are going to do a vibe cting challenge. The first thing we're gonna do is kind of lay the land, talk about where we all are in our vibe cutting experiences And then we're gonna all go see. You can do the best Inide coding. It's a lot of fun I'm very excited about this project in part because it's going to get me to like actually get some work done for a change for the podcast. It's gonna to be awesome But first, here's everything else happening on the verge today This is ninety seconds on the verge for Monday, june twenty ninth, twenty twenty six Mythos is back Kind of The anthropic model that was once deemed too dangerous to release publicly and actually threw even more chaos into the already chaotic relationship between anthropic and the US government is now being released to a Trump administration approved list of organizations who those organizations are, who they will be, whether you'll ever get to use Fable five again H to say Nobody seems to quite understand the AI regulatory environment right now And given that the Supreme Court also ruled today that President Trump has the authority to fire two FCC commissioners, which changes the way that agencies work Whatever happens here, it will start with the White House Meanwhile, Comcast is splitting into two companies, in the latest of a seemingly endless supply of media, mergers, and unmergers Now there will be Comcast, the Internet cable and mobile carrier, and there will be NBC Universal, which is the studios, theme parks and streaming networks, including PeacOock. None of this, by the way, applies to Verscent, which Comcast spun off in twenty twenty four The media business just continues to be chaos. And a fun side note of this, by the way, is that I have a new disclosure to do here. I guess it's going to be something like Comcast is an investor in PMX, the parent company of the Verge I'm going to get used to that one And finally SA for you. WhatsApp is rolling out username support later this year so that you can find people and be found without having to share phone numbers. The feature's not live yet, but You might be able to go to setettings, account username and reserve yours. There are like three billion people on WhatsApp, so you should probably move fast. You can read more about all of this at the verge d. comot That is ninety seconds on the verge Monday, june twenty ninth Support for the show comes from service Now AI is moving fast across the enterprise, but without visibility, it's just chaos Different tools, different models, different teams using AI in completely different ways Service now turns that chaos into control With the AI control tower, you see all your AI across the business in one place. What it's doing, what it's done and what it's about to do so you stay in control. To put AI to work for people, visit serviceNow. com We all do it You have a night for yourself but don't like the sound of the silence, so you turn on the TV just for the ambiance It's a little trick that helps you feel like you've got company and aren't alone And other insurers, well, they may make you feel illow. But when you switch to GIico, you've got claims reps available around the clock So whenever you need, you'll have people around to help. And let's turn on the washing machine. just for good measure Isn't that soothing? It feels good to have support. It feels good to Gaico. All right, now it is time for some vibe coating shenanigans Joining me now, the Virges Senior AI reporter Hayidenfield Hi Hidden Hey, And the Vverge is E executive editor Jake Kasrnakis.' Chief S shenanigans's reporter, than. Chief Senanig's reporter What I want to do here is something that you guys actually did a little bit of while I was on parental leave last year which is just all simultaneously attempt to go on a technology adventure together U You guys all did vibe codating projects last year and I listened to that episode of the Virgecast with like sheer rage because none of you tried hard enough and you all gave up too fast. And we're going to do some new stuff. So I have assembled the three of us and the way that this is going to work is At the end of this episode, I'm going to give all three of us a task. And it is largely a vibe coding based task And we are going to regroup in a month and just share what we have done on that task. You will be relentlessly shamed for not doing a good job or trying hard enough. You will But the world is your oyster So we're going to get to the task at the end But what we were gonna to do is a task ahead of this. The first assignment I gave both of you was basically like Go vibe code something that you have made that is useful and interesting in your daily life. And you both were kind of like, we've done this already. So we're gonna start our experience with some show and tell Jake, I want you to go first and tell us a little bit about your vibe coding setup and some of the stuff that you've built Yeah. I mean, I feel like what I should actually start with is the failures. Okay, which is it It's it turns out so when we did this last year. coding as somebody who has no coding knowledge it wasn't there. like it didn't work. Like we tried stuff and it was constantly flopping. Yeah. And then when I checked back in again, you know, this winter Oh, it had changed a lot. You know,. And so The thing you will find if you start experimentents with vibe coding is like you're gonna to make a lot of stuff that in the moment, you're like This I'm cooking. L this is amazing And then you use it and you're like, I have no use for this. L this is total garbage Um So I made a bunch of tools that I thought would be useful for work differentere kinds of news digests, different kinds of things that would pull together Twitter feeds, things that would I just one time I told Claude, I was like, hey Find every single you know, open U. S government database that is relevant to the erge and you know pull all of the files that are relevant to companies we cover and then just like do some analysis on them. And it was just like, cool, let me just go get the API for like the treasury. And it just like did it and it built it. And then I had all this data and I was like, there's nothing. I don't know what to do with this And so it's gotten there. Like the technology has advanced a lot, but I think the thing that I found is that Finding an idea that is useful to you specifically is harder than building it now, which is nice. This is I mean, this is like increasingly supported by the data, by the way, right that like You look out into the vibe coding world and everybody is building tons of stuff that amounts to nothing. And this is becoming like an enterprise crisis because everybody's like, we're using all these tokens for nothing. What is the point of any of this money that we're spending So you've encountered the same problem that every Fortune five hundred companying in spades right now Except I only paid like twenty dollars a month. so was not it was not so bad Eventually I did strike something though, right? I so I found a small focused problem I have at work. which is that I have a lot of meetings with people on our team every single week, right and byy the time the next week rolls around, I have forgotten everything we talked about And that's because like I I've tried a million different systems for taking notes for these meetings. and every single time it's just like I don't read my old notes back. they're kind of a mess. they're in different places. I like had just like a long running text edit doc. likeike it's not good U And so I kind of thought like, oh, wait, what if I have a notes app that is specifically for meetings with Our team And I can list everybody's names and I will have it automatically roll forward every single new entry with the action items from our last meeting. And I could have it automatically summarize, you know the past few weeks of notes. And so now when I go to have one of these meetings each week, I'm like super prepared because it's giving me like a brief on what we've been talking about. I have the action items that I'm supposed to be coming in with. And this has been great for me. And so like this was the first thing I built that was really, really successful Okay, wit can you just pause for one second? Yeah Hayden, I want to know how that description makes you feel. I once described a vibe coding project to Neili and he told me that it sounded like I was describing a dream to him. and that has hurt my feelings ever since he said that M I want to know like does Jake's description of what he vibbe coulded do anything for you Yeah, I mean, I don't know, with five cating, I feel like the simpler the better. like it's usually solving a problem that like is really easy, but you just can't it together. That's how mine was at least what I like built. And so This ss similar. It's like, yeah, he could You know, take the notes and look back at them, but he's not. So he's like figuring out a small tiny fix that's going to make him look. So I feel like, yeah, I mean, it seems like simple enough to work, in my opinion. likeike you gave us the prompt of the toothbrush test, like something you're going to use twice a day. and that's what I kept thinking about. So it's like this seems to pass that. you know, I feel like people try to like go too crazy with it and then they just like we were talking about It just flops and like they never use it again. So likeure creep problem is so real in vibeing because you're like, I can do anything. Maybe I'll just do everything and it just all falls completely on its face. Yeah, I know exactly what Nli is saying though because you know, as a piece of software, like it's I think it's pretty polished, right? I could share it around. Other people could use it this doing this has maybe like appreciate people who actually make software so much more because this thing is precisely designed to solve my problems and It doesn't make sense for anybody else. It is specifically tuned to my workflow and I don't suddenly I'm like, how do you if I if I'm passionate and I'm going and I'm going to make a notes app, like How do I know it's a something thing other people want? Like how do I know that it's an interesting idea? Beause we see right, we cover this stuff all the time. David, like you've written about nine million to do apps. And each of them has like an interesting, marketable idea. like I don't I don't know is for my app But it doesn't matter because it's only for me, but that's why it's so pitch this to somebody Jake, one more question for you before we get to Hayden's project What is broken about the app that you made yourself. I mean, this app is like really simple. It's it's Basically just a safari web view with some notes. I have I hate to tell you, but like I haven't found it yet. Though I have like out of paranoia, like once a week, I ask Claude to review it and be like, hey, make sure the data isn't going to fallpart Make sure it's not going to delete all my notes. Like makeake sure I'm not going to lose everything. Can I canan I just make a quick suggestion Just go back to Claud and say, hey, can we back all this uppise text files? Just justust do that for me and it'll make me feel better I'll look into it re You're going to end up with like a webcache problem that is just everything's going to fall apart If it starts with local hosts calling three thousand, you've made mistakes That's my other vibe cing up Do ress about that real fast Well I made an entire email client. Oh my Godd. I can't wait to hear about this. This is my dream. this is Dude, okay, so like I've had the same email address for like over ten years Yeah. and it's been public the entire time And so I get so much garbage And so I was like, okay, how can I figure this out? How can I create an experience where I don't have to deal with a million emails at once And the answer is just labels. like it's just Gmail labels GemMo labels are like on the st They're like hidden in the corner. It's like not like a fast way to access them. And I was like, oh, you know what would be perfect. You know how Gmail has like the big taps up top for like promotions and whatever I was like, oh, what if I just put my labels up there? That would like solve my exact problem. GMail doesn't let you do that. You can't choose what goes up there So I was like, okay, I'll just build an entire app that puts my labels up there And it's great and it makes it super easy for me to like triage my emails because it like shows me all the stuff that's from like you guys, my coworkers. It has stuff from like known trusted contacts who I want to hear from. It has a tab for like literally like five thousand plus unread newsletters. It's great. I love it. You basically buildilt yourself like It' sucky superhuman, which people pay thirty dollars a month for. L it's kind of great. some PM Gmail is listening to this is and is going to get a promotion by going and launching what you just described as a new version of Gail. I would really appreciate it. but yeah, but it's also like I had to like enable a bunch of weird Gmail API things. Every single time I did something, I was just I would be like Please do not accidentally send emails to my entire contact list.. Like it's a little scary. Like I would rather kind of not do that. Like a local notes app, like the worst thing that happens is that I go into a meeting with you, David, and I forget what we talked about last week. Like it's fine. This one, the worst thing that happens is that I accidentally like spam every single person who You hack your own email But to your local host thing, it's like for some reason that I haven't quite felt like dealing with I had have to log in once a week and then the loggin involves me going back into my browser and there's this local host thing and I just Yeah Yeah it's fine. this is the kind of stuff that I really get a kick out of because my own experience, which we'll get to in a minute is Built a bunch of software that has a bunch of bugs that I would find complete reprehensible in anybody else's software. Yeah. But in mine I'm like, ye, that's fine. I can de do with this. I don't know how to fix it anyway U Hayden, let's get to you. Have you Have you been vibe coding? What have you built for yourself? Yes, okay, so I have been vibecoding. what I made was a habit tracker, which I know everyone makes, but for me, I have ADD and so I really desperately need one. Like I've learned about myself that I can't like start a new habit without accountability, basically. You know, it takes like six weeks, three to six weeks of me having accountability with someone else or with like inanimate object, whenateever, I have a tracker. I need to have some sort of accountability for like three to six weeks and then I'm set I'm in it, I don't need the accountability anymore. But it is very tough for me to start a new habit. So every time I join a new gym, like I make five gym friends, I'm like, I got to really lock in here, you know, because I'm not going to do something just for myself. I have to just not disappoint someone else or not get a star on my habit tracker or whatever. That is going make me do the thing, not just the long term knowledge that I'll be healthy or something. Totally. So at least in the beginning. So basically I used to download all these different habit tracker apps. like you guys we're talking about with to do list apps and you know, note taking apps. And so I've tried like every habit tracker app. There's always something that bothers me about it or it's really expensive. I even downloaded this one that I loved for a while called Habit But the problems with it were that you couldn't create a habit that wasn't everyday For example, I need to take my iron supplement every other day and it's something that I'm always going to forget because you have to do it on an empty stomach at night. and you have to take over your vitamin C. So it's just like for an ADD person that's just too many details to recall on the fly. And so yeah, or I don't want to work out every single day But I also don't want to be like shamed for not working out every day. And if I see it on the thing and it's like workout and then I don't check it off I will feel shame even if it's not a big deal. I just, you know, I have to feel like I'm succeeding in order to have motivation basically. That's how I work. And so what I made was I have a tracker app that has like a section for daily habits. It's extremely simple. It's like rectangles that each have a color. And then when you swipe across habit to mark you completed it, it becomes a deeper color and stars rain down. So you get a reward, you get a gold star. Is this like a native mobile app you made yourself? Yeah, I made from a web app and then I made a native mobile app So I will say J Caydens already winning Just by making a data mobile app Hayden wins this round of the vibe Coding Olympics. I will say though that it was really hard to build the native mobile app. like it took a lot of time and it kept breaking and I tried I did it I did both of these things, both the web app and the mobile app. I tried both codex and Coud code. And I compared and contrasted and I had an interesting experience with both. But anyway, yeah, so it also has a section for three to four times a week, which is like working out and create a project or some sort, because I'm starting to try to learn how to embroider and stuff like that. And then only every other day does it pop up to say like, oh, take your iron and that's another habit that appears. Basically I made it perfectly for myself. and I think this is actually something that other people would want to use, but I will say you guys, it said that I had like fifteen high security vulnerabilities and fifteen medium security vulnerabilities. Yeah. So I'm not a developer, so I don't know what they are But it seems like, know, it could be dangerous for people who don't know what they're doing to be using this to like deploy apps onto the open internet. So my favorite thing is you go through these things and you say like, oh, Xcode is telling me I have all these problems and Cludd Code is just like, dah, don't worry about it Yeahs nothing Are we sure it's nothing? I literally asked Codex like, is this a problem? It was like, Ohh, don't worry about those. That's what it said. I was like, okay Um, so yeah, I mean It works on my phone now Um, as long as I'm connected to the same wife. So, you know, I mean, I would like it to work all. it seems to it hasn't broken yet, but I just You know, it works so far. It's going well U and, you know, it has made me more likely to do my my new habits, which is great. So that's really that's really impressive. I do think that's a fun one because That is the sort of thing that I can absolutely see how you're like, oh, other people would be like this too. Whereas like there's some things like Jake, the first thing you described in particular is like This is very specifically for me and my thing. But then It's very easy to be like, well, lots of people have running one on ones at their work. Mbe other people will want this too. And then it's like, I think an easy trap I've seen a lot of people fall into is you're like, okay, well what would other people want? And then you've accidentally builds an app you don't want anymore. Whereas I feel like Hayden everything you just said to me was like, oh, this is very cool. That's something I would use too. And then you're like, oh and stars come down and I'm like, I would turn off the stars. don't I don't want the stars. Get the stars out of my face. You can adjust those. So have you have an adjustment for the stars, even though you like the stars Well, I did originally, and then I was like, no, I'm just gonna keep them. so I love them At first it was like it was trying to be too elegant. It was like a quick sparkle. And I was like, no, this needs to be like a reward function. You need to make them more intense than then it did. For just to win st That's really good I'm Mine and I've talked about a bunch already on this show and on the website Basically, I built myself I've built two things now that I use every day the first one is just basically a way to see my calendar and my to do list in one place which is shockingly hard to do in a way that is not like hideously ugly Um Yes offense to every app that does this already. I know there are lots of you and I've tried them all and they're all bad in your own special way. on I just now have like a running list of the events that I have for today and the tasks that I have for today. And all the events are synced to Google Calendar and all the tasks are synced to do list, which is what I use for my to do list. But I can just see them and add to them all from one place And that has been like Life changingly great It exists on my phone, it's just the thing I open to see what's going on today other one which I just built yesterday and is working very well for me is U constantly have seven hundred thousand tabs open. And I discovered the problem is that I don't I need to put my tabs somewhere. Some of them were like, oh, this is going to be a story. Some of them are like, this is going to be a thing that I'm going to put in the installer newsletter. S of them are like, this, I just need to come back to later And I have I built a web cllipper that is just a filing system. So I click the thing and then I click where it goes and it just sends the link to the right place. And I don't have to think about it anymore. And I am using the least RAM on my computer that I have used ever in history It's this tiny little piece of software. It like barely works. For anybody starting with vibe coding, by the way, I really recommend starting with browser extensions because they're very simple to make They're really easy to load You can obviously do lots of like security disaster things, but like the There are fewer horrible ways for it to go wrong when you're just trying to like do a simple thing with a web page on your computer. highighly recommend messing around with Chrome extensions to solve some of your browser problems. We've all been there. You pop into the shop for five minutes and all of a sudden you've forgotten where you parked. Car? Car. Unfortunately, that lost feeling is what it's like trying to manage your policy with other insurers. Here car, comeome out, come out wherever you are Please. With GaIicCo, you can use the app to easily manage all your policies in one place. 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You need a reliable network to make sure you can manage all of those different games at different time zones throughout the day. Verizon businessus keeps things moving Verizon Business helps make sure every small business wins. As a proud sponsor of the FIFA World Cup twenty twenty six, Verizon supports the drive, resilience, and ambition that fuels small business owners. Learn how you can strengthen your business at erizon. com slash Bus The email client you described, Jake, all of a sudden has my brain spinning I'm like this is the thing that I want. I have gone back into a bunch of the supposedly useful AI email clients recently My inbox is the most out of control it's ever been. I don't know how you are as email people, but like I was inbox zero person for a long time. I haveve like seven hundred unread emails right now and it's stressing me out. You know You're a meaning, Yeah,' You're a psychopath when it comes to you email don' we don't talk about that U But I think like I feel like we've all We've done a pretty good job here of like solving a very specific problem for ourselves, which is good. U Oh wit, can I say you the things that's broken about mine, which I think is very funny I set up a bunch of keyboard shortcs so that I can like navigate around my little daily planner app there are three tabs and I can type one, two and three. to switch between them I can type Command T to have a new tar or a new task This app for some reason, captures all of the keyboard shortcuts on my device. So I can't open a new browser tab inside of while I'm looking at this planner app because command T, it takes to mean a new tab when I just want it to be T. I cannot make Cloudp fix this This is where I'm like any person who is a remotely functional developer would know how to fix this I do not So I am like every keyboard shortcut on my computer ceases to exist whenever I have this app open And it drives me insane But I don't know. that seems unusable. It's not, but I just have to go over and click a new tab button and then we' going goes back and it's fine. As long as I switch tabs with the mouse, we survive. But anything once when I'm in the app, it refuses to acknowledge that anything else exists.ries me it' a very normal vibe coding problem Yeah. this wasn delightful and terrible about these things. It's just like, oh, but everything else is so perfect for me. like I will deal with this incredibly major inconvenience. Yeah Have you guys used anybody else's vibe coding stuff yet? And obviously it's hard to know to some extent, right? But I mean, like have you seen anything else somebody just like made on GitHub? and been like, oh, I'll take that for myself. No, I haven't. Would you? Does that feel risky? I don't know. I mean, after building my own and seeing all my security vulnerabilities, I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I would. I mean, feel I feel like I would just rather make it myself. especially because I don't know. like when was when I was comparing and also like comparing with Clad code versus Codex, there were like thirty security vulnerabilities on both. And I feel like anyone else vibe coding would be like me and just be like, oh, it's no big deal. So yeah, I don't know. I think I would get ideas from it The thing that I'm really curious about is if when I was doing this email client, I was like, oh Why don't I just like start from an open source project and then That will be like a really sturdy center and then I can just cut like I can cut it down and build it back up to what I need to be Um And like my dream is that like as this stuff becomes more and more common People just buildite a core to a notesa app, a core to an email app C with to do And that stuff, I don't if it does exist, like I'm not good at finding it and figuring out how to build off of it. And also some of these things that are so simple. But yeah, I think like If it's something like that where I'm like, this is a known, trusted entity, a community project, like yeah, absolutely like open to using it. but some of the stuff like I'm more likely to like be inspired and then do my own thing than be like I mean, there's the thing, like, dream. they're very specific to you. and so it's like, I don't know if I really would use somebody else's thing Yeah, I went when I was building this little web cllipper thing for myself Yeah. I said There's this thing called Marky that is just like a neat little tiny text utility for Mac that somebody I think vibe coded and put on GitHub A. And I put that into Clogd code as like design inspo that I was like, this is what I want this to look like, basically, veryy simple and straightforward that and Cloud code was like, oh I like Marquee a lot. Great job, then I was like Okay, sure, sureure o clock good But ye, I have not yet figured out my own tolerance for this stuff because I think even if you assume that most people are doing this stuff with good intentions and not malicious intentions, which I think is true Certainly people will have malicious intentions. But like you said, hidden, even the people with the good intentions. might screw this up, which is one of the reasons I have been reluctant to share any of the stuff that doing with people. I even got some feedback from people who were like, I like the way that looks W you share the thing with me? and I'm like, I don't know how to do that and B No. because because I don't know what's going to happen to either of us if I do that. And it feels like To your point about last year, this question of like How do I even stand up any of this stuff We've sort of solved that in a way, right? Like the ability to get a thing up and running for yourself is much, much, much easier now Uh like Hayden, you and I have figured out X code. If we can figure out X code, people can do it. That's for sure. The next phase we have not figured out is like how to make these things safer and share and more shareable and more sort of durable out in the world That doesn't feel like anybody has figured it out yet. And that it's also interesting. L you're talking about how you would customize Hayden's thing. As soon as you go to share something, it's like, oh, I have to clean up this like wacky settings tot thing that everything is just like hard coded to what I need it to be Right? Like if it was an actual app, I would have to Code, the ability to make custom tabs, the ability to like rearrange it's like It's funny because it's like Literally a machine does it for you. It's as lazy as it gets, but like I don't want to babysit that. L there's like you still have to do some like you have to do a lot of troubleshooting, particularly for bigger projects. Like the notes app that I made took like thirty seconds. The email app took like A weekend Um, which is is again, all things considered not very long, but like It was it was annoying and it's like I don't w to go deal with that and like potentially ruin my app in the process Yeah that. the phone app or turning it into a phone app was what took me the longest. And then I was like testing both the web I made the web app and the phone app each with Codex and Cloud code. and it was interesting because Op AI Like Kodex had better taste But it was extremely confusing. Like I kept having to ask, what do I do now? or what does that mean? constantly I never made it to the phone app at first either because it messed up on the app version setup and it like didn't set up for a compatible exfoo version Um So and it shows like a two new animation package for the stars, things like that. Whereas Cloud code was betteret at building web previews and really easy to understand and just better at solving problems I couldn't conceptualize on my own. Like I honestly didn't know how to conceptualize the three to four times a week thing. I was like, yeah, I need this, but I don't really know how it will show up and not make me feel bad. And it was like, oh, why don't we do it like this? And it was right. So I was impressed with code more, but I will say It was I don't know. it was notot it didn't have great taste without hand holding. Like the one it made at first was functional but extremely ugly, whereas CodeXcess was like beautiful. So I had to do a lot of hand holding to change the design, but I mean, the functionality was better at first. so that was interesting. That is really interesting. Cloud Code has a very U let's say, unsopisticated design sense by default. Okay, we should get out of here, but Before we go, let me give you your task. and as a reminder You have four weeks. give or take to pull this off. and then we're going we're going to regroup In four weeks And we're going to see how everybody did and there are going to be prizes at the end for who did the best And if stars rain down. stars will rain down upon you If you win Here iss the task The task is to vibe code a website for something going on in your life D. H hidden you are getting married is a thing that's going to happen. Would you like to vicode yourself a wedding website, knock yourself out? My I already know what mine is going to be, which is I will just spoil it for you. Now. I'm going to go vi code myself a away to share photos of my kids with my family without having to either like create a private Instagram page or just try to like teach everybody how Google Photos works I don't know how any of that's going to work or what I'm going to do, but I have a month to attempt to figure that out. The prompt is very broad You just have to build a personal website