Closing Thoughts and Future Coverage

So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to seventy percent off are at Nordstrom rack stores now. Stock up and stay big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, and more must haveves for summer. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Redull Summer all day play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic? a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track Red Bull Summer all day play, Red Bull gives you wings Visit reedbull dot com slash bright suummer Ahead to learn more. See you this summer Welcome to the Birdadcast the flagship podcast of Corner Radi. I'm your friend David Peerce, and on today's show, we are going to answer a bunch of your questions about WWDC. WWBC, Apple's Big Developer conference started on Monday. We got a lot of new announcements, lots of new stuff for all kinds of Apple devices, bigig, new Siri AI, Apple intelligence. The phrase private cloud compute was used four hundred fifty thousand times You all had a lot of questions We have lots of answers. Neil Patel is going to join me from his hotel room somewhere in the Bay Area and we're going to go through as many of your questions as we can s going to be But first, Here is everything else happening on the verge today. This is ninety seconds on the verge for Wednesday, june tenth, twenty twenty six Users are starting to get access to a new anthropic model called Claud Fable, a very good name for an AI model. It's based on the mythos model that Anthropic previously said was too dangerous to release to the public And now, basically two months, a bunch of hemming and hawing about security and one giant hack of mythos later Here we are it' being released to the world Anthropic says the model is particularly good at software engineering, knowledge work and vision, which makes sense. Those are three of the things that Anthropic is very focused on in enterprise AI But it's also double the price of the company's other flagship model, Opus four point eight Use those tokens wisely, my friends. Meanwhile, Xbox leaders have said that they're exploring radically different, That's a direct quote, radically different business models for the Xbox. Basically, with RAM making everything so expensive, Microsoft seems worried that not everyone will be able to afford a console going forward Especially not the one we know of as Project Helix, which is apparently just a super high end gaming PC What are radically different business models Maybe it'll be ads, mayaybe it'll be even more focus on game passass and streaming on any kind of hardware. Maybe it'll be lots of companies making lots of different kinds of Xboxes Right now, under new leader Asha Sharma, it seems nothing is off the table for Xbox And finally, we have our first look at the social reckoning the sequel to the social network coming later this year. And more importantly, we got our first look at Jeremy Strong trying to look and sound like Mark People around here understand that when I say no, that's the end of the debate. I'm not two years out of a dorm room anymore, Charlie. Look around The Francis Hauen story is an important and big and fascinating one. But I'm not so sure about this movie, you guys We'll see. You can read more about all this at the Vverge d.ot com dot That's it. That's ninety seconds on the Verge for Wednday, juneh Let's get to your questions from WWDC. We had the live stream on Monday where we gave kind of our first thoughts on everything. It was pure chaos But Neili You are here. Welcome me I Patel What's up? From I would say looking at you, you're in an aloft hotel. Like that's the distinct vibe that I'm getting from your. This is definitely the Marriott C competitor's an aoft hotel. It's AC hotel I've never been, it's very corporate I love it. I assume every single person who is in your hotel is WWDC related in some way. Yeah. There's a lot of software developers just looking furious at their agents. Yeah That sounds about right. So we have a bunch of questions that people sent us about WWDC, about some of the announcements time First, I just want to get a vibe check because one of the things we talked a lot about on Monday show was how different and sort of bizarre the keynote was. Like it's just a very different presentation from Apple than we're used to at WWC What was it like in the room at Apple Park You know, it's really interesting. I saw all the commentary about how the video was different online. No one there actually experienced the video that way. Like we were outside we're watching it together, but wes it's just in that environment. like you're watching a giant projection of a video. You don't spend time being like, well, that lighting's kind of blown out. this is obviously handheld shot an iPhone. Like Why is everyone walking so much? Yeah. Right? Like it just it kind of doesn't happen to you, especially me because I'm li vloging, so I'm just typing furiously. I have to go back and watch the video every time to figure out what happened.. So in the space, what you are really getting, and especially as you walked around and we did a bunch of reporting and went into briefings afterwards, you really got the sense that Apple wanted to prove it That was by far the vibe was this stuff is real, it works. doing the live demos. they had a tech talk with Craig Federigi afterwards and Mike Rockwell and a bunch of the team. They were doing the live demos in that room. They were standing up in front of room for reporters, like gesturing in architecture slides. The vibe was this works now. We got caught with our pants down two years ago and now we are only talking about things we are shipping that works and we're being responsive to criticism. the first thing they announced was an opacity slider for liquid glass on Macroass. Like literally the first announcement of WWC. So that was the vibe there. It I wouldn't say serious. It was like a party vibe. like they were in full celebration mode because the thing was working and it was shipping. but it was very It wasn't as goofy as years passed. Like they weren't covering anything up with theatricality or production value. And I think that came through on the video. I think everyone saw that in the video. Like there wasn't a lot of special effects for CGI, Craig Federigi In the space, it was just very different. like on campus walking around Apple Park, it was very We did it, right? You like it. Would you like to see another live demo of it working? And we just kind of like lived through that over and over again? Yeah, I saw a lot of people talking about the slowness of the demos and the fact that you actually got to sort of watch it think every time. And I had the same reaction you did, which is like this is Apple making damn sure that you can't accuse it of not showing real demos. Like out of its way to be like, no, no, this is how long it takes without question. and even you know, the demos that we actually saw Th thingsings took a while. And I think part of that in real time in person was all the developers had downloaded the betas and private clloud comppute was just on fire. Like someome of the demos just didn't work and the people doing the demos were like, yeah, PCC's on fire today. Like sorry about that. We're going to try again. And I very much appreciated that You know what I mean? Like Ttally. The notion that Apple had built the stuff, that it was working, that the demos were experiencing real failure as opposed to everything on rails, you know, it's in beta There was something about that that It was just honest in a way that lots and lots of Apple presentations have just been infomercials for years This one was very much like we made products, We're shipping it. We have a point of view about what it can and can't do. and we really want you to talk about it. evenven down to Craig and team doing the live briefing for journalists afterwards. which Uh, it was good, you know, that they they know their stuff and they were there and Tim Cook was sitting in the front row and it just struck me that They were a little nervous Not in a bad way, they weren't off their game at all They were just out of practice They hadn't done it in so long. talalking for real people. talking to real people and completing sentences without getting to retake it There was just an element of Craig getting on stage and me like, Hey, everybody This is what this is like. I'm feeling this for the first time in ages. Yeah which I thought was good. I think it's good for Apple to be in that position of saying we have to prove that the thing this time I think that's right. All right, let's get into some questions. And actually the first question is about the structure of the keynote itself Here's the first question Hey, this is Gabe from DC. I had a question what your thoughts on the WBDC know, I noticed this year Apple like barely segmented out anythingthing into, you know a specific section on IOS Unwalk U on iPad OS, et cetera. There's like one small thing MacOS and apologizing for how bad the design was, but This struck me as A weird question, is Apple moving to kind of a Oh product lines. It just seems like, you know, what Google does they just kind of talk about features and the assumption is that all their platforms will get the features. So Is that going to start like de emphasizing you know, all of their operating system specific features and just kind of move to a general, this is what we're doing this here I don't know. that seems like an interesting thing and a big shift rapple. Here's some your thought. Thanks so much I just want to say using Google as the example of the assumption that all their platforms will get the features is so generous to Google That I appreciate that. But Neil, this jumped out to me too. What did you make of like the actual structure of the thing? We're so used to it going a very specific way. What did you make of the way this one went I think the only feature of notote that they announced was the Apple intntelligence stuff, and that does work across all the platforms If they had gone platform by platform, I think just narratively, they would have announced Apple intntelligence five times in a row When we actually did go to the briefings and the demos The way it works on different platforms is different And they showed us Apple Intelligence working in different ways on the iPad. Like they're very proud that on the iPad, you can swipe down from the top and there's a little animation that drops the sort of spotlight pill down. It's very cool, by the way. It might be the single coolest thing in the twenty seven operating systems is the little swipe down on the iPad On the Mac, you know, there's context menus and they've rearchchitected sppotlight in Cand space. and now you can hit command shhift space to take a context screenshot for Siri AI, which is just a new keyboard command. Operating system by operating system, there are differences. There are different features in the operating systems, but the things that they announced cut across and most importantly, Apple intntelligence cuts across. And I don't think there's a way you can do that and then go back through the operating systems And if you'll get the structure of the keynote and there three pillars, the first thing they announced was refinement. Yeah. MacOS twenty seven Golden Gate. you know, it's the snow leeopard of this era of macOS. Yeah. We think all the stuff we broke the last time was very much vibe U And so I think they they just didn't want to D. lists of features. I think they wanted to talk about their core capability Interestingly The family stuff, the, you know, the child safety stuff All of those features are out already. They reannounced bunch of tools that already exist and a thing that's really different is the underlying architecture has been updated so that those tools might actually work now. And that to me is just a big section is Apple responding to regulatory pressure around the country and different states and around the world and different countries because there's so much of it and they're products have existed and they paid no attention to them that they essentially fixed it. Maybe they'll work. We have to do the testing.. They don't work now So maybe the architecture will make them actually work, and then they reannounced a bunch of features point out that they exist, which I thought was utterly fascinating So but you don't you don't think there's some bigger sort of reshuffling in how Apple thinks about operating systems here. because I think one line you could draw from the AI thing you're saying is that if you think Apple Intelligence and Siri AI are the sort of umbrella features across everything, then maybe spending a lot of time thinking about OS and iPad OS and MacOS as fundamentally different things is not useful anymore and that maybe this becomes a more sort of I don't know, like single OS company rather than being as individual silos as it has been over time. But it sounds like you're just saying this is more of like a keynote planning thing, not a giant rethink in how Apple thinks about software It's It's true in the case of SiriAI, which is you know, a cloud service. Yeah. So Apple has instantiated CRAI as a cloud service across all of its devices. And for all of the talk about on device processing they did Almost everything happens on private Cloud compute Even deciding where the request should go in many cases goes up to PCC When you say something to Siri AI and it might decide the request itself is going to PCC and then PCC is going to tell you advice, Oh, I need more. I need you to give me the on screen context And then your device will decide what to do. And I think all of that is fascinating I don't think that Apple's getting away from the app model on IiOS or the sort of open run whatever you want model on MacOS. They were very clear that the way these devices work is still different, that SRAI is going to work on these devices differently. I think the mashing together that you're reacting to is because SiriAI is a horizontal cloud service. Like fundamentally, it's a service And you can access it on different devices in different ways But at the end of the day, it's just a thing that now exists across the Apple ecosystem. I think that's fair That makesense. All right, lets move on to the next question this is just a very specific demand for you in particular, Ni, here it is Hi, David and the Virt Cast this is Drew. I'm actually listening to the right now like live. so like I'm like calling you and listening to you live right now and turning it down. apologies. Anyway, I just wanted to say, can we have an Eli do like a tight five on corner radii and how much it matters that Aphold took a second in the keynote to Talk about the radius of app corners and I don't know. I mean, I almost never do the beta on my Mac, especially not day one. and I did for that because all of my familyiess chater in WhatsApp. And the corner radius was always different than everything else. it was such a nightmare So, u If we could get some representation of this major success and major win from WWDC, potentially the biggest. for me and people of my ill I would love it. Neli, the floor is yours. Corner radi, the greatest day of your life It was It's very good that it's the first thing that they announced And to your theme of we fixed it. All the stuff was broken. All the people who ran those projects are gone. Alan Di, the head of desesign is gone. He works at Meta now. John Gandria, who was the head of AI, who oversaw the broken Apple Intelligence launch is gone now. These are new people and they have the freedom to say the stuff was broken Boy was the stuff broken in Taho. Boy did they get completely away from what in particular makes the Mac the Mac in Taho, which is an absolute laser focus on user interface design and human interaction design. So I was very pleased and they wed with it I saw John Griver walking around, He looks very proud of himself. He is fully taking credit for all of these changes You know, the opacity slider for liquid glass is by default, it's set in the middle and they asked me like, where would you put it? And I was like all the way to the right, like as opaque as I can get it. I just want my buttons back There was one part in the keynote where they announced that they're just adding colors back menu items in windows so that you know which window is the active window. There's an element that's very silly, right? All the corner radi are going to match now. There's also an element of that's what you are buying when you buy an Apple product. You are buying the attention to detail and the focus and the sense of design. And if you want chaos, you can go get Windows or you can go get a Samsung phone or something else. But what you buy from Apple one very constrained vivision of design I'm glad they're back to it. I would also connect it to how they're thinking about Apple intntelligence design Right? You know, I just interviewed Sundar and I was like, do you want to look at this search result? And his response was, we have a very scientific way of measuring whether the search results are good. Like there's no qualitative design over there. That's just not how they think about their products. Apple is very happy to talk to you about corner radi fixing it now that Allan die is gone. And you know, as kind of pushed on that in different conversations I was having There's a reason why they haven't jumped all the way into agents. There's a reason why they haven't done all of the things that everyone else are doing They want to be thoughtful about that. Now The uncharitable read is, they're not ready for that. They had to reset the whole thing and All the features are basically free ChatT from two years ago in a more privacy focused way their argument is no one knows how any of this should work and Apple's point of view is, yes, we will be two years late and get it right And like, That's Apple. That's the thing they're doing right now. And I think corner RadiI is just evidence that they want to be that company Yeah. and I think like again, I'm I'm tryrying not to read too much into keynote structure, but leading with that, I think you're exactly right. is like We are back to attending to detail in a way that I think made a lot of people very happy. like an easy win with all the Apple nerds out there to just do that And it is one of those things that once you notice it, you can never, ever stop seeing it So I'm very glad that they fixed this. I mean I never installed To. It was I was on you managed to avoid it entirely? Yeah. I two years at installing Genuinely really impressive Study and play! Come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds! Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PC's. elligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five premium and a year of Xbox GamePass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offer. Lw Supplies last ends june thirtieth terms at aka. mS slash collllege PC When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed spponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this shel will get a seventy five dollars sponsored job credit at indndeed dot com slash podcast That's indndeed. com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apppply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. This Father's Day, do more with Dad and spend less with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Get him fired up with a new grill and accessories, like the next Grill five burner for just do two hundred ninety nine dollars, so you can spend more time together while he becomes the grill master he was always meant to be or build memories with savings on top brand power tools so you can tackle projects side by side. Gift more and do more together this Father's Day with help from the Home Depot. Exclusion supplies to homekeper. com plash pressmatch for details This episode is brought to you by State Farm You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over nineteen thousand local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. So you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm dot comot like a good neighbor State Farm is there All right, let's get the next question This is from Conlin, who says What for you is the best feature that would normally be a big deal in a WWDC keynote that would send developers wild, yet this year was swallowed by all the time given to AI nonsense For me, it would be marked down in the notes tab Do you have one off the top of your head? Like would' have been a huge deal any other year except all they wanted to talk about was Syrii? Well, so it is marked down in the notes t. that did get a little cheer. like it was It was there.eople saw it on the bento box, like Uh, that's cool the the one that like They talked about it It was just like the wrong moment in time to get the cheer was the Aenta coding in Xcode. Look, they're very proud of it. And the fact that you can swap the models out to CodeX and Cloud code and all the other ones There's something big brewing in Xcode that gets no attention. And they talked about it more in the developer State of the Union. EXCode is becoming a big eentic coding platform for Apple developers Or at least they're trying to. and they know they have to keep up And so I think from like the developer perspective The idea that they're just going to lose to clock code is not an option and they're going to have to push Xcode down that direction That's a good one Can I can I give you two? Well, I have two and a half because one of them you're just gonna to make fun of me for. So I've been going through they put up this slide at one point that was just like billion words of like here are the improvements that we're making. And I've been going through and trying to pull out the ones that are in there that didn't get talked about a lot. One that I personally am very excited about is audio scrubbing in the now playing screen in Carplay. too be able to actually just use your finger to move audio As somebody who has to play the same song over and over and over for my three year old, that's going to change my life Um One that I think actually might qualify as like would have been a big deal any other time is extra large widgets. They introduced a new widget size that is now Basically the full size of your home screen. I've only seen screenshots. I don't have it on my phone yet it is just a widget that takes up the whole space that your entire appgrade would. And it becomes essentially an interactive app on your home screen And I think like if you want to get real galaxy brained about that, there's something really interesting happening. and like how do we just elevate someome of your most used apps to your home screen. I mean, I would connect that directly to in the developer say the Union, they announced the ability to resize iPhone apps in the simulator to like a landscape orientation. How do you get two apps on a widees screen? Oh, and then clearly in the middle it's just a folding phone. Yeah. Yeah. It's like how do you get two apps at once on a widees screen? Maybe we just have full screen widgets that go side by side hundred percent. And then the other one and this definitely does not count as would have been a big deal But is natural language calendar input U Are you a calendar person? I don't know that I actually know this about you. Like you're somebody who lives out of entire life is a calendar. Okay What calendar app do you use N encounter M Notion caalendar is like the most medium of calendar apps. It's also the one I use The now in the Apple calendar, you'll be able to just natural language type, you know, like podcasts with Neili, two PM weird hotels and it'll just do it for you. Like that That is such a giant leap forward in calendar management that it is insane that it took this long. likeike fantastic Al One of the great calendar apps has been doing this forever. And is the only reason I use that app because it just lets me type the thing that's happening. It's just a very good thing. But I think there were tons of these. We should just like turn that graphic into like a spoken word poem And just read all of them out loud because there' It's only for subscribers. You have to pay us monthly for David to just read you every feature that I. Yeah, I will dramatically read improved Unread badge accuracy in mail. That'll be great. All right, let's get to the next one This is from Ishraock, I'm sorry if I'm getting that wrong Ishrok says, one thing that's been bothering me about Apple's messaging for its new AI features running on private clloud compute is that it's completely private and none of your data will be used for training, exxcept the training data will have to come from somewhere And then I realized that this data is coming from Google. whose data was used to train Google's foundation models that Apple is paying to use. Doesn't that feel a bit misleading? Sure, it isnt Apple doing the data scraping, but the sausages have to be made somewhere and it's being outsourced by others to do the dirty work. I'm not sure there's even a question here. but thought it's an interesting discussion point. Thanks. This is something I saw come up a bit actually over the last couple of days is this question of like Apple really wants you to believe that it's the good guy in AI. And yet it's just sort of sitting on top of like everyone else's kind of original sin of training and however you want to feel about the way Google accumulated the data to make Gemini Apple now gets to benefit from that without having to have done any of the dirty work. How do you feel I can just add to this. When you ask Siri, you know, what's the tallest mountain, it goes and searches the web And then you ask them, how is it searching the web? Because they've made it very clear that it's not using Google's web index put up a whole slide. They're like we're not using any of this Google stuff. We're running on Google Cloud on NDia hardware with our models that have been refined with Google's models, which is what they keep saying. I'm pretty sure that means they distilled Google swtles.' teach your model to be better by asking the bigger model lots of questions, but they won't say But when you go get world knowowledge in Siri, it returns a very familiar list of youve used any of the ZI tools. with like here's a summary, and then here's some like sources at the bottom plus two, you know, that you won't click on. And you're like, where is that coming from? Where's your web index? And they're like, we have our own index And it's like, okay, are you indexing the web? That's a big deal. T date. There have only been two been the Bing index in the Google inde. You've said you're not using the Google index, you've historically used the Bing index for Siri. Are you using the Bing index? And they just won't tell you. H it's So it's right there, right? I mean, this is the same issue that everyone has Okay, you're going to scrape and summarize the web to return knowledge from around the web Is Syria going to send a bunch of traffic to websites? Like I don't know. They don't have an answer for that and they're just brushing it by Like this just doesn't matter to them It's the same with training. likeike how are these models trained? Is the refinement with Gemini a distillation? Is it actually referring to the Gemini models? They're not running Gemini in the way that everyone thinks that they are. That much is clear. They've made that abundantly clear. It's not just pinging the Gemini model on Google server somewhere. Yeah. Craig Federy stepp up in you know in front of all the reporters at the Tk talkk and said, here's literally put up a slide. This is how Google's model works. And he put up the Apple model. and he said, as you can see, we're using zero of Google's model And we've trained our own model, we refined it which J and I, We're running out in Google Cloud, but like here's our whole system. and it does not work in any of the same ways that Google or OpenAI or anyone uses their system. And we're not using Google's models directly in this way. I think there's a lot of questions to be asked about that. They want researchers to push on private cloud compute and make sure that it's safe and secure in all the ways they're claiming it's safe and secure. But you get the real sense that there's separation between what Google is doing with Gemini and what Apple is doing with Apple Intelligence probleblems are still the same problems. Where is the training data from? Did you pay all the right people at all for the training data? If you just distill Gemini, now you are in fact trading on the fact that Google scraped the entire web to train Gemini. then If you have an index of the web and you're summarizing all these websites, what happens to those websites if they don't get any traffic from you? Is there going to be any exchange there Apple just sort of does not have answers to that. Not even being able to say what the web index is Or if Apple has actually indexed the web itself, which would be a huge deal That means Apple runs a search engine. Yeah. It wouldn't be terribly surprising, but it would be new for sure what do we think Apple built a web index and continue after? L Apple Bot exists. there is a webcrawler that Apple runs. Yeah. to do it at the scale that would support Answers in Siri That's a big deal. It's just unclear if that is the thing that they're doing. And I think it is in Apple's interest to keep that whole system as obfuscated as possible Um All right, let's let's keep going. I have I have a heady one and a less heady one. to end with here. let's start Hetty. We're gonna to talk about our feelings here for a minute. I'm really excited about it. I'm listening to the live stream Hey the, it's Mark,.'s up Keep in the woods right now I listen to live stream after WWGC and Jamot say and Is not sure why they don't just say, hey, download the apps, yad yada The truth is that they want to own the top of the funnel Obviously this iss all opin, but they w want to own the top of the funnel, right? They want to be the one that you go to when you ask the question, So when these models get better and when There is some shift in the interface. that they have control of it because once they lose control even a little bit, that's when things get harder, right I use all day ad and sometimes I'm just like, I'm gonna ask Siri because my phone's not nearby and I need to yell Hey theory or like I just have that button and I'm so used to pressing it. I'm driving and it's just easy Its bunch of times on my phone In theor are the only things I have And touching and typing is not what I want to be doing and just asking theory to open up anything. They know that. They know that the usage is there This is my long ramble That is this HH, they just want to maintain that ownership of the behavior that they set up so many years ago because they can't lose it. Okay, my only response to this, Neil is this is right, right? Like that's that that is a correct That that is what Apple is assuming is that it can it can play catch upp And because it is right there in front of you, it will win Right? Like is it actually more complicated than that In the short term, I think that's exactly right Only an announced this week. was that they have shherlocked the free version of ChatTPT. With fewer buttons. withith fewer buttons. There's not a single thing here that goes beyond what anyone was doing with a free version of Chatub tea. They had a demo in the keynot where They were like building a shed for a maker space and they had a bunch of quotes to make the shed. You know, all these like very contrived situations are like yeah Here's all the PDFs in a findinder window. we just selected them all and it made a table and helped you pick a shed I negotiated a car lease with Free Chash TBT a year and a half ago You know, like the exact same way. I just like uploaded a bunch of PDF's and like handwritten screenshots of dealers or car dealers. And it just like figured it out and like help me like this is the free version of Chatumi. There's not a single thing they announced apart from, it has a little bit more personal context, It's literally running on your phone and can read your messages in mail and photos But all the capabilities of the free version in TashTbT And all they've done is they've shherlocked open eye in that very specific way will that billion weekly active users of free chat GBT go down becausecause it's just there on your iPhone, probably. Yeah That's the short term. I don't think that matters to anyone. The long term is Is this a platform shift Are you gonna to invoke apps by just talking the seri in your earbuds and letting it go out and do things for you in the world Because that platform shift has gotten everyone very excited. Meta is killing itself It' firing everyone to buy more GPU's to build the next version of the platform because they think that's it. That's the thing you're going to do. And in large part, they're all excited because they think They can use this platform shift to disintermediate the iPhone in particular. Yeah, they can get away from the Apple tax. Yeah. I think if Apple dropped the thirty percent tax, they wouldd all be fine, you know, if the iPhone was like open access, maybe they would all quit and they would just like build their businesses. But they have all run into that wall in various spec ways and they want to get around it Or they want to get around it and then build their own platform and then charge everyone else thirty percent fees, which is probably the long term view of all these companies Boy, that's a good business to be. So I think in the short term, I mean, they just made a chapot. David, I don't know what your view of it was, but I was like, oh, this is just They've just built an equivalent to the free chat bots that everyone is using right now with a little bit of it's running on your phone so it already has your data And great, they've sure locked free Chat GBT The next step where it opens the Uber app and calls an Uber for you is nowhere to be seen on this roadmap They've said it could happen That's the thing that disintermediates the app model entirely that gets rid of the iPhone And you know, I think Apple is going to find ways to make sure that doesn't happen, but it's not the thing that they're protecting against right now Yeah. and I think Apple, if that does happen. is very helpopeful that Siri becomes the system and then all you have to do is buy AirPods and you've still solved your problem, right?ike The iPhone is eventually just becoming like a brick of compute that you talk to with other things is eventually going to be a perfectly fine outcome for Apple because they will continue to sell you ihone. I don't know. I think this is this is this is the remains to be seen part Why do those apps need to run locally on your phone in that case? Maybe they don' I mean, I think Apple just spent a long time talking about all the privacy implications of why they should be and is like deeply invested in on edge AI processing But there are a lot of people who are on the exact opposite end of that debate. Yeah, All of your stuff is in iCloud. Yeah. You know, it's in iCloud. If the government wants to serve Apple a warrant, they can do it. can get your iCloud. L people buy their iPhones and they download a bunch of apps from Google and Meta and Apple does nothing about your data going through those companies. Nothing at all. So they're in a dance where they're claiming all these privacy protections. Just like the dance they are in with photos, where they've said, you a photo is a representation of reality, and then the competitive landscape has drawn them inextorably to AI photo editing in like, I think, really damaging ways We'll see. But it is not clear that the app model where the apps live on your phone and they are just a viewport to a cloud service is actually the model. Like maybe you don't need the viewport to the clloud service. Uber is just a cloud service Nothing important about Uber actually happens on your phone ads At some point the agent might just go to the cloud and talk to that service directly. Yeah, they shows you ads. That's about it They're very happy to do that U No, I think that's right, but I think I do agree that short term bigiggest success here for Apple. L the biggest possible success is that it built free chat GPC. And that is s extremely not nothing. L that would be catching up in a very real way that has a bunch of gigantic interface advantages. but I don't see anything that goes beyond that yet All right, one more question. and this is me summarizing a surprisingly large number of questions that we got both in the live stream chat on Monday and in our various inboxes, which is basically just Home pod withith several question markers afterwards I don't think it came up at all. and we got a call from Jack who pointed out that given all of the serious stuff they're talking about, actually the Home pod is sort of a perfect device for this. Where is the home pod Where's the home pide meele? Where's the Homepod? Where was any mention of TVOS? Where's the new Apple TV? Another like Siri on your television is a thing that would make a lot of sense. What Everybody else is desperately trying to put voice assistance on your TV. Everyone else is just trying to get away from the iPhone. They're like, is this a screen What's what's the next thing in your house that looks like an Android tablet? Let's put our assistant on that thing. likeike Great. Apple has your phone They they if they win there Everything else is kind of sideways, right? And that's just extra space to be won, which is how they treat a lot of the rest of their ecosystem in big ways. Like if you have an iPhone, they're very happy with you If you don't have an iPhone, almost nothing works well. So they're trying to get they got to solve problem one I'm guessing that in September, or around it. we will see new hardware for the home R? These are the rumors. Yeah, we've been hearing about this little like home robot iPad thing for years now. Yeah. They've got they need to introduce new hardware for them. I don't think the existing home pods are it. I think the existing Apple TV is The chip is too old to support some of the features that they're announcing. There's just a lot they want to do But it's not time yet to announce it because the hardware to support it doesn't exist. By the way, the hardware to support Apple Intelligence at its you know full throat doesn't exist on many of the devices that are shipping today. My Apple Watch Ultra one is going cut off a watch OS That sucks. This thing this thing was expensive People are mad People are mad. The iPhone sixteen, which was announced as built for Apple intntelligence, is not getting the full suite of Apple intelligence features in IOS twenty seven. There's a lot going on here in terms of. Oh what does it actually mean for these devices to have enough memory, enough bandwidth, enough processing power to do the orchestration about what goes where have the context. that it I think Apple has really underplayed it to begin with and now they have to catch up on the hardware side too Yeah, I think I think you're right that I would say basically between This iPhone event in September and the next iPhone event next September, which is the twentieth anniversary of the iPhone, I suspect we are due for a pretty aggressive rev of a lot of Apple hardware and by all accounts a bunch of new devices including a foldable phone Thatice right. It's be interesting. All right, Neili, thanks for hanging out. You'll be back on Friday show. You've got meetings and stuff to go do cool couches to hang out on I'm on the reed Eye again. The Friday show is going to be bananas as usual veryer much looking forward to it. Good to see you, buddy. I'll see you. All right, that's it for the show. Thanks to Nei for being here. Thank you to everybody who emailed us questions and called the hotline and yelled at us during the live stream on Monday. We appreciate hearing from you at all times. If there's still stuff you want to know about WWDC, I would say there is a strong chance we're going to talk more about it on Friday. So keep calling the hotline eight sixty six Vverge oneven, email us Virgecast at the Vverge d. com. Also, if you want to know anything about anything else, hit us up. We love hearing from you. And as always, the best thing you can do to support all of this is to subscribe to the Virge. The Vverge dot com slash subscribe