Evaluating Long Term Relationship Goals

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I am twenty eight years old and my wedding is this weekend and I'm wondering how to handle my parents mean girling my very soon to be husband. How do they go about doing that Well It's not necessarily direct conflict, but u Just passing remarks and just like an overall lack of interest in getting to know him. It's been a couple years that we've been dating and they're still at the stage of like He seems like a nice guy and I feel like we should be beyond that point now. so I'm just wondering, I don't think the wedding will be a problem. I'm sure everything will go fine But I'm wondering what this looks like as we get into Marriage Well what are you most afraid of? Like what what impact parents have on your life? specifically marriage. Right. So me and my soon to be husband, my fiancee, we really connected on the fact that we are both like very family oriented people When we first started dating, it was My family does everything together and he was the same way. and we were really excited to like you know participate that in that together And then as things progressed, his family was the way that he had painted the picture of like being super family oriented, doing everything together. And my parents like really took a back seat. I felt like we used to do everything together, but now that he's in the picture, things have gotten Kind of awkward. and like touch and go. and I'm just really trying to like grapple with the fact that like maybe my family isn't as close as I thought we originally were. So is it Do you think it's things changed or you think it's more maybe you weren't as close as Or maybe it just looks different. Maybe it looks different There's just been some like passing remarks that I wonder if it's sitting on their minds as well. Like for example, when we talked about taking pictures at the wedding. My mom wanted to make sure that we got a picture of like just the four of us, me and her and my brother and without my husband, and I had like made it clear like, no, my wedding day is not for that picture. I'm not too familiar with like the wedding picture rules. I imagine that the happy couple would be together in all of them, but I'm sure there's family like where it's just like just this family and that family Yeah, yeah, potentially. Have you talked to your parents about this feeling? So yeah. I'm not necessarily conflict averse. I did bring it up with my dad a couple weeks back and I didn't frame it as you don't like my boyfriend. you don't like my fiance. You're not getting to know him. I just like put it out there that I felt like we were disconnected. And there were conversations that I had been aware of that were happening without us present That should have been conversations with us. Like what For example, when my bridesmaids and my mom and I went to try on wedding dresses The first moment that I went to go try on the first dress My mom goes to my best friend that she's she's been my best friend since childhood and my mom has known her since then too And the first question she ased is like, do you know what the rush is? Are they pregnant? or do you think she could be pregnant? And I'm not. How have you guys been engaged since Christmas. So It is a quick turnaround. Why whyy so quick U, we were Just ready to be married, I didn't see the Reason for waiting. I plan events for work, like very often. So like the idea of planning, we wanted something small and intimate. We're having fifty people So I was like fifty people, I can do that in three to four months. So I did We got a good deal on an off season. Yeahah, thank you. I got a good deal on an off season venue. So I just went for it and yeah, we're just excited to be married. Already living like we're married. We bought a house together. There was really no reason. Did you have a? likeike what do you talk with your parents about? Because like listen, if you're my sister You're my friend, and you got engaged in December And then you sent me a winning invitation for like April I would have been like, yo What's the rush? And you would have been like I you would have said exactly what you just said to me, which sounds lovely and it sounds like endearing. And it's like, oh my gosh, she's a party planner and she got to, you know, it's just like, but like I would have asked the question and I'm just wondering When and what do you talk to your family about? Because this seems like a normal conversation to have with people who are close to you even if that conversation starts off with a little bit of questioning or maybe even judgy you know, like Yeah, no, I totally agree. And that's why I was so confused that this happened in like hushed tones away from me because I actually have had this exact conversation with my fiance's mom and brother and sister in law and friends and everybody. Like I would like jokingly say, just so you know I'm not pregnant. This is not a shotgun wedding U this is why, and exactly what I just told you is what I've told everybody And it was never like how long brought up? How long have you guys been dating? A little over two years. Okay Cology My age twenty eight One, um Additional factor, I do have a four year old son I was a single mom when I met my fiance and he is the only father figure that my son has ever known He was like young enough at that stage where he doesn't remember anything different to like not have him in the picture So I know I wonder if that's playing a role in it. likeike that not only are they protective of me in my heart, but they're also protective of their grandson But he my fiance's done notothing but be a shiny example of a father figure. He is been so great to me and so great to myself. What was your situation like before your fiancee showed up in your life? My ex was abusive very like in all the ways I can imagine. Yeah I guess after your ex was out of the picture, when you were a single mom And specifically what role were your parents involved Right. So After I got out of that situation, my son was less than a year old. I did move in with my parents for a while probablyb about nine months. And obviously, well my dad did step into the father role for my son because the other guy was out of the picture and my brother as well, he's a couple years younger than me and I think they really took that on. And then after those nine months, I Moved into my own apartment It was like five minutes down the road from them still though. And then shortly after is when I met My fiance I mean Maybe it's just that, you know, in the sense that like, you know, your family cares about you, love you, or maybe they're protective. I'm assuming your parents knew about your ex and how in his ways They didn't know until I came clean to everybody. Okay They know now. They know now. Yeah they know the full extent. They knew before you met your boyfriend for your fiancee? Yes. But They didn't know what was going on, you hit it from Yeah So which is totally understandable. I mean, I get it. don But if we're looking for ways of why maybe your family isn't showing up for you the way you had hoped and expected without just assuming like, well, they just hate them or they don't like them or we're not as close as I thought, and maybe it's just coming from a little place of like, Last one wasn't great We didn't know. Maybe we thought it was better than it was. And here you are like planning a very quick wedding. Again, it's just you don't hear about five, four month weddings these days, you know? It feels rushed, you know, So what's the why there? So I imagine On some level, you having a baby and you escaping from a really bad situation and your parents coming into the rescue, so to speak, in some ways was a traumatic experience for everyone involved, including you, you know. but including your parents and They don't want to see that happen again And so they're probably not super like welcoming with open arms. I wouldn't be. No, obviously you guys are getting married this weekend. I imagine your parents are on board and overall are happy for you It's just maybe hard for them to kind of get out of this kind of frame of mind of just like not being fully all in They were maybe mentally prepare for themselves for like thingsings going south for you again. You had to move in with him, you know, like they kind they had to come to the rescue for you a little bit. This is all to say, like I think, you know, your solution is just like, you're going to have to talk to them more You know, you when I'm hearing from you, correct me if I'm wrong. is your fiance Like you said family' has been great. You've really enjoyed They've been welcoming, they've been fun, they're inclusive. And then compared to your family, which when you went in with the same expectations, they're guarded You know, they're not asking you guys to come over for hangouts. They're guarded.' They're keeping their distance a little bit. And for you, that feels like They're not accepting of you or certainly your fiancee. and now you're paying attention to every little comment or action that they do or don't do. and then you are deciding what it means and you are responding to it, but you're not asking for clarification, You're not sitting him down, you're not just talking with them. and you haven't really any meaningful talks with him. you know, and I was like, well, why didn't you say that? And you're like, I did. And I was like, o And then you're like with his family I don't like You know what I'm saying? L Yeah, you're Yeah. you're not you're not having this conversation with your family. And you're right, mayaybe they won't totally. But like you're being a little cagey, I bet with them. Because you're not like it's like you're waiting for them for doing to do something And as a result, you're kind of acting cagey And they're probably interpreting that as why are you acting cagey? L, you know, like they're just reading the tea leaves. And again, like not too long ago, they had to save their daughter from a bad situation that involved a strange man that At first, you were like, you should like this guy. Yeah And The thing is They didn't ask though. like and the What do you mean ask I wish they would everybody else asked me like, oh, what's the rush? They had never asked. And then no one else No one else had to come in and rescue you in that time of need. And no one else experienced that traumatic experience with you a couple years ago. Everyone else is just a fan, you know, a friend, your fiance's family. They don't they don't they didn't know you they didn't know anything about you. I don't know M many of them probably have no idea what your ex was like, you know? nor do they need to know You know what I'm saying? Like they are they're there just to be happy for you You know, they're just like, Yeah, there's a wedding. Fuck yeah You know? Is it an open bar Amazing. Y you know, your parents, they just want you to be a safe and happy and all these things. and They're just a little cautious. you know, less than three years ago, like their daughter was in an abusive relationship that you hid from them for a period of time. And then you're like, Hey guys, I got to tell you something. It's been bad. He sucks. I need to get out, helpp me They Well, you know what I'm saying? So like You know, you are waiting on your parents to make the first move and when they don't do something, you don't like or, you know, you are, you know, you're twenty eight You're about to get married. You're a mom, and you are still kind of playing the role of littleittle girl with mom and dad Yeah, yeah And I will say it's not that Their expectations of seeing us has changed. like one problem that we do have is like they do want us around like often, a lot But when we go over there, it's so It's like pulling teeth trying to make conversation or they'll scatter. like we'll go to their house and we're all hanging out in the living room and then all of a sudden it's just the three of us, like us and our son just sitting in the living room and everyone else is off doing their own thing. So I have, I do have so much empathy and was Kind of hoping that wasn't the answer. Like I think I knew deep down that was the answer that they were being guarded for a reason because of like things, but yeah, it's just hard to withith the empathy that I have for them, like I have tried, like I try to show up and I try to be involved in all of the things But it's hard to be involved when you're just like met with like a brick wall Like I don't even have the same relationship with them that I used to have Me and my dad could talk on the phone for hours, like just a couple of years ago about nothing and now the same thing even when my fiance's not around. like the conversations are just not the same Yeah, but are you also different? I mean, I'm just curious what your parents would say. Yeah, I am too. And like I said, I did try to bring up the not feeling as connected. I have had a conversation with my dad and he kind of denied the whole thing in a way He did tell me that I was starting drama and he doesn't like drama I don't know if that's non confrontational. Maybe he was valid in saying that because we have never had that kind of How did you approach that conversation Well, I had told them We weren't feeling as connected and when I said earlier, there were just you said we isn in you and your husband Are your fs say Yeah yeah Yeah, I would I can see why he felt like that was you got to just like The reason I say that is because again and agains I understand your point of view And certainly I bet your parents From your perspective,'s I understand why it feels this way Like they could have done more to be more welcoming of your fiancee and your relationship. And that and that hurts a little bit, especially when you've experienced Is it with his f I get it That being said Whatever, you know, they are slower to assimilate with you in your fiancee. Doesn't mean they hate him They certainly haven't like They invite him over, you know, I understand they're not super chatty about it But before you've had a you never really had a conversation with your parents about this. and the first time you had a conversation with your parents about this You use the word we And that included you and your fiance And I think this is a conversation you need to have between you and your parents, that doesn't include them, right? Because and I'm just coming from a place of like, yeah, like if one of my siblings came to me with a criticism about how I showed up for this. And we never had that conversation And then that conversation started with we And that is we as like me and their partner. It would feel like, did your partner tell you to have this conversation with me? Like this feels dramatic. You know, like I've never had this conversation. No I'm having this conversation with you and you're saying we. doesnes't mean like you're right. I would just like, because keep in mind You're this conversation starting with an accusation which is I don't feel as connected and it's kind of your and I kind of think it's your fault ike it's kind of how they're going to receive it, right? I feel like it might be more productive. and maybe this would be a great time because your wedding is this week of maybe you taking your parents out to dinner or a coffee or whatever and you not with your fiance justust saying, hey First of all, I don't know, maybe you have Well so whether you have or you haven't. You're just like, I just want to thank you again or I just want to thank you, which one? for always being for there for me, especially a couple years ago when things were pretty bad. And I know that probably wasn't easy for you. and I imagine it was really scary to see me in a place that wasn't so great You guys really stood up for me and I love you, and I'll always be super grateful for it. And because of what you did for me, you allowed me to be in a good space to meet Matt And that didn't end well But I really He's a great guy and I'm really happy and he's been great to our, you know, my son and I'm really excited to spend more time with you guys, but like I think you just I'm okay I'm in a really great spot and I'm really happy. and I just want to thank you for helping me get to where I am today because I wouldn't be here without you or some version of that. And I think that will go a long way with mom and dad And and then, you know, in the future or whatever, I don't even want to even do this now. you could just say without just me being so heavy. You don't have to be like we feel disconnected. You could be like, dad D you try to just it's just coming from me. It's not come from him because I think he wants to have a closer relationship with you. Like, you know, when you start it like that, it's like, then it's like, yeah, I guess I probably been a little standoffish you know, like if it's just like, hey, he doesn', I don't think he thinks you like him. then it's just like, you know, but like you need to do better because we feel disconnected. Your dad's probably like connected. When were we ever connected? How can we get discnected? I've never been connected to this guy You know? Like he's not my boyfriend You know? Like You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I totally get it. I don't know if I wanna have the conversation before the wedding Like I said, It feels like I know. You don't want to thank your parents for Stepping up and being there for you I have written into my thank you speech something along those lines, but not like is not something this is not something you proclaim to fifty people. This is a private conversation that you. expxress gratitude to your parents for You're about to get married. And if you know, if your parents didn't step step up and be there for you, who knows? wouldn't you could Who knows where you would be? You know, You might not have been in a place to go on a date with this guy. Y parents helping you Being there for you and not making you feel like you are alone on an island by yourself with like a one year old or whatever allowed you to heal and be okay and get back out there and date and like you don't want to thank them for that? I do. I do. just in three days seems like a lot This is like a five minute conversation. This is you don't think you I don't think you have to like This is not like you don't have to make this. uch a thing. You could do it this afternoon. You could stop by their house and say, hey guys. Yeah. Well, one like wrench in that is we did move like an hour away. So they're also like adjusting to that. And there's been feelings about that as well. And If you moved an hour away and they're frustrated that you move further away Yeah. Yeah. but at least they care Yeah, yeah. and they definitely do. You have to I mean, listen, I don't, I'm not sure why why why this suggestion is so scary or difficult for you I'm just no, I genuinely, I think I could have the conversation. I you it was a f? Itesn't scare me. Yeah, I suppose so withith both of them like set up like a three way call. Do they not live together I mean, they do, they do. Speaker phone Faceetime? Yeah, I suppose so. It's just the logistics. Logistics. Dcare pickup being at five o'clock, bedtime being at seven and being home with my fiancee, like that whole time. and you can't I'm not getting done with work until five. I don't know. You are full of excuses. L I don't know. What you describe as a typical Wednesday night. I don't know. Yeah. When does that phone call happen on a typical Wednesday night? Literally at any point againgain, this doesn't have to be some emotionally charged conversation. I hope that your parents are like, oh, that was really sweet and That means a lot and thank you and we're really excited for this weekend. But this can happen at five thirty or six or six thirty. you can tell your're very supportive and lovely fiance and soon be husband. Hey, I'm going I just want to talk to I just want to call my mom and dad about this weekend and just thank him for everything we've done, you know, whatever. You don't even have to tell him why. Just like I'm gonna take fifteen minutes Yeah. He's be great. I'll watch kid. Awesome And then yeah I don't know. Maybe I don't know what time your parents e dinner, Maybe right after dinner, you know, I don't know. L literally anytime. You're right. It honestly also could be This, you know, weekend when you guys, I don't know where when the where the wedding is or when they show up maybe, you know, but it does, you know, I just It doesn't have to be before the wedding. I do think it would be like I think it would be again, maybe there's some something you know you know that I don't know that you're not sharing. I don't know, But this doesn't seem like it needs to be that heavy. And it seems like it sounds like you've never done this. And I think it would go a long way. And your parents care, you know, they didn't want you to move an hour away. and part of you calling in was like, they don't care about us. They're not engaged. Like this is just communication You know, you clearly, no offense are not the best communicator. you know, Like you described a Wednesday night like it's like like I was supposed to be like, yeah, that's crazy. I don't know how you're gonna make this call. I don't know. What are you going to do between five and seven You're not like Yeah. I don't know. mayaybe it's just the wedding planning brain thinking about it. but I don't know if that's it. I think you just avoid confrontational You know, and This is not even confrontation. I don't I don't know I would If I were you, I would explore why this is a challenge for you to have this conversation with your parents because whatever disconnect you feel with mom and dad, certainly, I'm sure they're playing a role, but like because it is so hard for you to have what should be a relatively simple, maybe emotional, but simple conversation I wouldn't think would turn into any type of confrontation You are reluctant to do it. And you've been reluctant to like have a conversation with your parents about this and the only time you You brought it up. You were just like, we me and him feel a certain way about you too you know, and it's like That You know, that that's a little confrontation Yeah, yeah I don't know if it necessarily came across that way like I can't remember quite exactly if like the initial accusation if you want to call it that was like we or I. but like he put it out there that he's like, I know that anything coming from you from this point forward is something that you and him have talked about. Like he's very aware that like Any feelings I've had, like I have talked about with my partner So Yeah maybe. I do think you saying hey, mom and dad J just want to thank you for everything you've done for me. Yeah No, I can totally do that. Like I'm I'm not worried about the conversation at all. I think I could do it. Are you gonna do it Yeah, ye, no, I think I will, I will. I I'm last you think this is really bad advice I'm giving you and there's something I don't, you know, I don't look mayaybe I'm wrong, you know. No, I think it's great advice and I think I had like considered this as a whole reason from the jump U Like I said, I was just kind of hoping that it It wasn't why Why? I don't know. I think I still hold a little bit of resentment. for that time Well, just like in the comparison I just think back to with my ex like how welcoming they were Like we were like onene big, happy family and they had no idea what was going on Yeah. And I know this only supports what you're saying is like they were super welcoming back then And that crashed and burned, it was a bad situation U But I think when I just compare the two, I'm like this. My fiance is Pfect. Like he's amazing. like he has been so supportive and just like such a blessing to us and he just gets the should end of the stick because of the ex situation. U I just like When I compare the two, I wish it was different, but I understand why it's not Like I understand why they, but it It can be it it can be different You know, it's not different right now, but like you just have to do something about it. You just have to Identify the problem S, I think we' identified the problem And now you have to figure out a solution And that solution is to communicate with mom and dad and just empathize with their point of view give him a little grace. But again, I think that and that's why I don't think this conversation starts with like you two, this is not about him right now This is about like Almost closing you're starting this new chapter, you're getting married and closing this chapter with your mom and dad, with this thing they went through with you and acknowledge because it doesn'tound like you have yet to really thank them for. And I get, you know, and listen, you were going through a lot then. you know, you were in survival mode Your parents did what you expect them to do, which is be there for you I do think it would go a long way just to acknowledge to the and express that appreciation because there could be an element of like, you know, we were there for her. We helped her up. and then the first chance she got, she ran off with the new guy. And he's just like, again, as far as they're concerned, he's just some he certainly was Some strange guy. And again, yeah, it just makes sense. they might be a little guarded You know, and that's not their fault. it's not your fault. It just is The situation You're getting married a guy. You're gonna be with him for a long time You know, you guys have time for him to your family get to get to know them. It doesn't sound like they're mean girls. They're just like not sure if They just they're just not sure and they may not know why they're not sure and And the fact that your dad because he said something, he assumes that like they're probably waiting, you know, this very much gives like I was say going I was going to bring this up a few minutes ago This is like, you know, when family members's like, we should hang out more. It's like, well call me, phone works both ways. you know, like Okay, well then no one, you know, it's just like, you want things to change. Maybe your parents in the same way, but like maybe your mom could be I'm talking to a therapist. like wish I was close with my daughter and you know, sounding just like you and coming up with all other the reasons why she can't have a conversation with you. likeike someone's just got to just talk. And and I do feel like that will be like a nice way to close that chapter in a way that like lets them know you're okay You appreciate what they've done You know, what you went through is obviously traumatic. And again, you were in survival mode. And I think sometimes when people are watching people they love in survival mode, they they they just want to make sure that they like are kind of like they know to take a pause and like look at their situation and make good decisions because a lot of people make well, you know, once they're in that kind of sururvival m to make one bad decision after another because they're making decisions in this place of scarcity where, you know, it's just you make smarter decisions when you don't need anything you know, as opposed to when you like,, I don't want to make this decision now but I kind of have to make this decision now because I don't, you know what I'm saying? like And so I think Barents, you just want to see you make good decisions And I just think you coming to them like this in this mature way will come across in a way that's maybe hits different than how you've communicated to them in the past. Yeah Yeah, I do. I think it'll be received well and we have never really talked about the situation and like how it has affected them like up until now. And you don't even have to like you dont, you know, if they want to tell you that you can listen, but all you have to do is thank them So like Yeahah, you just got to express some gratitude. and let them know you're okay. And express that gratitude on the eve of your wedding that you've been reflecting and you just if you haven't already, you just want to let them know that everything they've done and everything they continue to do means a lot. And I'm really happy now. and I'm really grateful that I had you guys because I wouldn't be here today in this place if it weren't for your help. And I just want you to know, mom and dad I'm okay. I wasn't before. I am. And if you can say that with confidence, knowing that like this you were used to be a person not too long ago who had to like tell them the secret that They didn't realize that you weren't okay for a while And I think that will be a nice little conversation. And I think you'll be glad that you have it. Yeah going into your wedding. Yeah. You've convinced me. Like I think I think it's a conversation that needs to be had H Let me know how it goes. Okay, I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm confident it'll be fine You know, unless you're not telling me something, but yeah, I just that was a traumatic experience. I don't even know if you're fully through it, you know, likeike, have you got any therapy? Yeah. I was in a lot of therapy. did a lot of like EMDR and my therapist has graduated me like in her words. so Have you talked to this stuff with your therapist? Yeah, yeah. I don't go anymore But yeah, we talked about it some. I don't know if we came to any conclusions like this, but it was still early on when we were back like still meeting I guess like one thing and like maybe I was just trying to come up with a different reason why this was happening. I feel like my parents have thoughts or I know my parents have thoughts about where we moved to.. We were originally like I grew up in a small town but it was like fifteen minutes away from like the bigger city a bigger city. and then where we moved and where my fiancee grew up and all of his family is is like an hour away from there and it's like a little bit more rural. And I guess I've just always gotten the sense that they think we moved to like a hillbilly town and like they have thoughts about him and his family and all of that Maybe you know, that you're just guessing, you know, you're just like, I don't know, talk to your parents. likeike this is That is the solution. I'm sure like no parent is like, you know, no parent or grandparent is gonna be excited about the people they love moving further away, but you only moved an hour away. It's not the end of the world It is a minor inconvenience. but like this disconnection you feel is a product of you just like avoiding just conversations with your parents And I'm sure they have Ill role to play in this too. But again, I think back when I said like I think when it comes to your parents, you still show up as their young daughter or a girl, you know, And I think, you know, you are twenty eight. you are like this now your relationship with your parents is an adult to adult relationship It is not like a an adult to a child but you are still expecting your parents to do kind of everything comes to the relationship you have with your parents And know obviously you have the right to move and you're going to move and do what's best for your family. And by your family, I mean you found saying your kid. But you're expecting your parents to just accept that be happy for you. And that makes a lot of sense, but you're also expecting your parents to like have the conversation with you and communicate to you what their frustrations are or, you know, like you're expecting them to kind of do everything. And you have to show up in this relationship and set you know and talk and communicate. And when you are feeling these things, you have to try to find the words. And I understand you tried once and it didn't go well, but I just think you're relying too much on your parents to be the reason why everything's okay between you and your in your fiance Yeah I don't think I was necessarily expecting them to like fix this with a conversation because I have no expectations of them to have difficult conversations. I guess we just don't. Like as a family, everything has been hunky Dory for twenty eight years. That's fair, but you're not doing this. Well, you know, I'm half the equation and I am an adult want this to change. so How about I do some about it? Yeah, yeah It's a lot more productive than being like, wow, I think my parents think I'm you know, like you're assuming their intentions. Yeah And you're you're creating narratives in your head. And all this can be solved with just talking with Mommy And I do think it starts by just thanking them for what they've done. because I feel like from their perspective it might feel like We were there for you and then she things got better and then she met a guy. and then we were just out of the picture Yeah. I think I can definitely do the thank you And the other point you made about maybe later on down the line just talking to my dad about how my fiance I think you would like to have a clloser relationship with the O. I think that will hit And that can happen over time. you know, like I don't think it they need to be they don't need to be best friends by Saturday. He's going to be your husband You know, but I think right now your parents, you just need to get on the same way as your parents and they need to know that you're okay. because I don't think your mom's trying to be a mean girl or like st drama when they're like, hey, is everything? you know, and honestly, she probably is just like in some ways, Maybe checking in. you know, probably knowing everything's fine, but you know, like again, like you you dropped a bomb on them not too long ago Yeah. ye, I forget how recent that really was in the grarend scheme of things So It feels like I've lived like a whole new life No then, but for them, yeah. Let them know you're okay Yeah. I can do that All right, well, thanks for the call. Let us know where the conversation goes. I'd really love to know. And congrats on the wedding and I have fun this weekend. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm such a fan. I get the Top one percent Spotify video from you and Natalie. and I just I watch everything so. We appreciate you listening. And congratulations on the wedding and talk to your parents ' do. Thankk you so much. All right, takeake care H about What's up everybody? Don't forget that all val Files Pus content is ad free. Plus for all you ask Nick listeners out there, your updated specials are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow up calls What has happened to these people after they heard my advice? didid it help them? didid it hurt them Has our life changed? Well, you can find out on update plus and you can get update plus on behind Val Files plus. so go to valfiles. com to sign up You will be glad that you did One of the most questions I get asked is how is my hair as long and as healthy as it is? Because not too long ago, it was so, so sad looking, It was so thin, it was so unhealthy. It was just shedding and shedding and shedding in the shower. And my secret is Nutrophil. It is a product that I swear by. I have put my mom onto it. 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There's a lot of people in our lives, specifically our dads that maybe you think they have everything they could possibly need. giveive them something that will really touch their heart this Father's Day. and that will be the gift of Storyworth. This year, give the dad a gift that capture who he really is before the stories get harder to remember. Father's Day is Sunday, june twenty first. order right now and save up to twenty dollars at storyworth dot com slash Vi a LL Save up to twenty dollars at storyworth. com slash Vi LL storyworth. com slash Vi a LL How's it going Good, how are you G good. What's your name? I'm Noell and I'm twenty five, and I was wondering do guys tycically want to hook up with their female friends Why are you asking? I have a bunch of guy friends P and I've known a lot of them for like eight years, some of them for four years And I've never thought much of it that they wanted to do anything else until I met this guy on Tinder and He kind of told me this theory that guys always really want to hook up or date their female friends and Guys will not have friends that are girls unless they're attractive And that Have you met this random person on Tinder who told you this? No, no. It didn't work out from there. He pretty much asked me like what my red flags were. I think to other guys, it's a red flag that I' bentched with a bunch of guys and my ex. So he was like, either you drop them or this isn't gonna work out Oh So how did it So you were just like, it came up in conversation with this guy you met into that who you hang out with you mentioned that you have A lot of guy friends and one of those people is your ex. Yeah, he actually like explicitly asked, like, are you friends with guys? And I was like, ye. And he was like, how close are you? And like we're all in a group chat. We talk daily, we hang out every weekend, we all faceetime, Dar a girlfriend Uh, not anymore. No. Wh not Why does thatore I think we're all this young Yeah, I mean, we're in like our early to mid twenties and I'll different like path of lives and Three of them had girlfriends and they all kind broke up around. No, But like no, you're girlfriends. Like you have a lot of guy friends, but do you have friends that are women as well. Yeah, there's a few of them in the group that are single as well and then all my other friends that are girls just don't live near me. so I don't get to see them all the time. Goth, okay And ever since you had this chat with this guy, what it's gotten your head or Yeah, it definitely has and me my friend in the group who's a girl, we constantly debate this because she thinks She agrees with mrter Tinder Yeah, ye, exactly. and I'm thinking maybe I'm being a little naive to think You know, after nine years, they don't What I Do anything. Have there been Awkward moments or I don't think so, but I also don't see the harm and if they did want to do something. if they didn't never voice that or acted on it, then well there's that too. Yeah. it's not like because they're They're not like all predators because they're Yeah Men who like, you know, who who maybe are accept the friendship for what it is and have decided not to Make a move. I agree. I've also known them a long time, so I think also some of them like are just into relationships. Mbe they don't see me like that. I don't see them like that. so I don't really get what the big deal is, but I kind of see how like outsiders looking in how it might be weird that I hang out with a b. And so your big concern is like as you continue to date are other men going to take exception with the fact that you have a large group of friends that many of which are men. And one of them includes an ex boyfriend. L how long ago was this guy your ex We broke up about over two years ago and we only dated four months. We were friends for that You know, those eight years It got a little messy, but I mean, we're both mature enough now that we're like, hey, we're either in each other's lives as friends or we're not in each other's lives at all. It was never serious. So I think with that, it's very circumstantial. If we were living together and talking about the future, it'd be a completely different story. But like we do like still hang out a lot, We text a lot Nothing ever flirting And from my knowledge, he doesn't have any other feelings. leftover and he knows where I standay with that. I'm always saying how like I love how we're just friends and we work out more as friends because we truly do. Okay So here's here's I mean, is there any more tidbits or information you think I should know? I mean, it it just adds to the lore. I don't know if it helps my case, but like he also dated my best friend and now she's dating his friend So We all kind of Yeah, he's doing Your ex used to date your best friend Yeah. And now he's dating her friend Now she's dating his friend Okay. L my best friend and him dated like Maybe like six years ago And she's been dating his friend for about two R. And' like And to be clear like all of these guys that are in this group chat, you are you are you get the relationship ick. like nice guys you are friends, but you are you that you don't Yeah exacthing there, right? to be clear Yeah, like I know that sounds weird. L my best friend encouraged me to date her ex and thought like since we're great friends, we would work out and we were being a little flirty L at that time But now I've realized like Maybe don't date people in a friend group because you won't always be lucky and be able to stay friends with everybody. No and Yeah. I mean, we all hang out. We go away together like on trips all the time where we're just like kind of drinking and it can get like a little crazy, but like we're all respectful of the other oness in a relationship And like I know what's a crazy look like. Pretty much just drinking for like twelve hours and like dancing with each other, playing like drinking games or just getting a little You know Do those drinking games include I guess here's the thing againgain, like This is a debate as all this time. You know, mister Tinder, I don't, I can't say that he's he's not right or wrong It's very situational. Right now, you don't have a boyfriend. and I don't think you should stop being friends with people that are friends They bring value into your life. you seem to enjoy their company You're twenty five. These are your friends right now That might change As your life changes, And I think you do have to at least be open to the idea that yes As you go out in the dating appps or whoever, you know is if you meet a new guy that is not familiar with your friend group and you like him going to be an adjustment for him. to feel Comfortable And welcome and your friend group Specifically because it's with a lot of men He might not be as like black and white as mister Tinder, which is like, yo, like it's weird for a stranger on an app to ask you to drop all your friends for him That's we. Yeah That's aggressive It's just more like You know, if I'm, you know, like, if if I were out there dating and I met someone who like in this came up Now granted, he specifically asked the questions. So that that's that's coming from a place of he probably knew some girl who, you know, like this this this has ended poorly for a lot of people Right? The guy who meets a girl, she's like, Yeahah, it this is my best friend. You know, he's cool. And you know it turns out it's, you know, when when you have men and women of the opposite sex who are heterosexual and they're all friends, there's always the chance that like something could happen I don't know if you're watching Summer House And that all drama that's taking over the internet. But like that's a friend group You know, where they hang out and they drink and there's a lot of comfort and there's a lot of like, you know, now there's a guy named West kind of maybe dating a woman named Amanda, but Amanda used to be married to a guy named Kyle and like, you know, and now we're going back and watching and we're nitpicking like these interactions. and at first we're watching because, oh, they're just close. There's a comfort there he's There's just always the possibility a line could be crossed When if you and one of these guys were stranded on an island, I mean, eventually it hook up. Yeah you know, you're like, Ohh, well you're here and I'm here and I'm into men and you're into women and let's get naked. you know, likeike you could have sex And it wouldn't be the same as if like you were stranded on an island with another woman or if he was stranded on an island with another God Yeah, I don't think it's inevitable. L I think you can be close to a friend and I don't think it's inevitable. I'm just saying yeah, I'm using it again Yeah, yeah. you know. I doubt you're ever going to be stranded on an island with an No yeah you know. My friend says it's inevitable if you get too close. I just I think other circumstances play a role. I don't think it's inevitable in general. I think there's always the possibility and you just never know how someone's feeling on the other side of that equation Like I can say with Almost certain confidence that like there's never gonna to be a situation where one of my guy friends are going be like, I'm in love with you. Yeah Or if they got really drunk, they would try to make out with me And it almost certainly probably won't happen with your guy friends, but it's not the same and over the course of history, you know, there have been a lot of instances where It got weird And I'm not saying it's going to happen with your friends. I'm just saying that is just a a reality of Men and women friendship dynamics And you might be one of those people with a great group of friends where you are the exception to the rule. It's still something that any new guy is going to be he would see it as a red flag. And rightfully so, doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong But if you meet a guy I also don't think it's you also I don't think it's reasonable or fair that you would have to drop all your friends for random fucking guy But if you meet a guy you really like, it just might be something that you eventually have to you're, you know, you'll have to feel it out You might, you know, going a couple dates. If it comes up, you just be like, yeah, like so it's weird. I have some guy friends, you know You have to empathize with why it could be weird for any gu. No yeah. I definitely get that and I've met people that like were okay with it just more often than not when it comes up They're not willing to do anything or But I also think like what mean they do anything They're not willing to like take the relationship with me further, I mean Uh, like they won't even try. And like with the other tinder guy, I kind of explain like, if I get into a relationship, like I know the boundaries. I would have to have and like where to draw the lines in the sand and like If we were to date, like you would just have to trust that nothing would happen. And I also think like Dropping people or blocking people in a relationship doesn't change the outcome. Like if something was going to happen, it's going to happen if they're blocked or they're not or after listen, it just comes down to yeah, again,s there's so many variables with this, right? L Yeah You know, if you were like, if you're saying, hey, listen, like You're just going to have to trust me It's like, Okaykay, what do I have to trust you with? Are you like going out to lunch with some of these guys on a regular basis? Like what kind of quality time Are you spending with these people You know, if you become boyfriend and girlfriend, you know, I've I've used this analogy too. likeike, you know, before I met Natalie, I was veryery soon very independent and I kind of did what I want and I have a lot of women friends Some of the couple, you know, I had become I and became friends with women who we Did very briefly hooked up and then just realized that we were better friends and then like time had passed, you know, very and I was very protective of my platonic relationships with women And by protective, I mean, like not considering like potential dates, I just like I made sure that I had the appropriate boundaries. I valued these friendships And I'd never wanted it to get weird And I just never wanted to cross a boundary But as soon as I met Natalie, all of those relationships changed. I was definitely less available. wasn't grabbing coffee with them or dinner. I wouldn't go to the movies with them. And I would before I was single. I was available and they were my friends and you, you know And that had to change So you know, if you meet a guy and you really like him, it might happen organically. But yeah, he he might have every right to be like, I'm glad you're friends with him, but like I'm just like not comfortable. likeike he's like, you know, let's say he's got, you know, he's poker night with the guys and you're like, oh cool, I'm just going to go hang out with six other dudes That might be a little unnerving for them, especially if, you know, it's going to be As said I always say this, like It'll be like, do you think Your male friends care enough about you where they would go out of their way to make sure they make some new guy feel welcomed in your group so that person doesn't feel threatened by them or just gets to know them. W they go out would they take the initiative I think most of them would yeah. Well, that matters, you know, because like again, like, you know, it's just like You know, if I have a woman friend, it's like that woman friend has to make my girlfriend feel welcomed. It's her ye, it's her job. It's like Yeah, I definitely agree with the boundaries. like I W to be doing what I would be doing now if I was in a relationship of course and understand that would have to change If your guy friends are like, I don't know L he's some guy, I don't know. Maybe she'll fall love with maybe she won't.'s not my job. L But like it's it'll make it more difficult You know, because it's their it's their group You know, its it's hard to enter any new group. He's going to be wondering why he has to make five new guy friends just to date a woman. And that's definitely different. So like I guess what I'm saying is you just have to acknowledge that it's different. I don't think Mr. Tinder's right, but I think Mr. Tinder's not totally wrong where you I think for you to pretend it's not different or that you wouldn't have to move differently or, you know be very like Aare of how he might be perceived. I think you would be making a mistake. If you were to be like, I don't know what the big deal is. you know you just have to trust me. And like if all you do is to expect these new guys to trust you I think it's not, you know, you have to do more than. I think you have to show them Wh it's not weird I think these guy friends would have to go out of their way to like be friends with this guy And if they can do that, then I think there's a lane for any new guy you meet to become friends with these guys. Yeah, I definitely get how like how it looks and why, you know, people might not come up to me like when we're out together or things like that. but like it's also like how soon do I bring this up? or they're not like running away I But like I do understand they would have to I would have to prove my trust to them and like be like here are the boundaries that I've drawn and here's I don't think this is like a first or second date thing. I don't know. Eventually, you know, I don't know. I don't I guess depends. I don't remember on a first date ever being like, so who are your friends Yeah, you know. But yeah, I I don't and I don't think it has to be some heavy conversation, but you listen, I do have a lot of guy friends and I it's been weird, you know, but if I were in the The shoes of these men It's really just again, so much there's so many variables. It really just depends. You know, my response was like, do I need to worry about it? I wouldn't think so. Well, it really all depends how you move, right? It really it all depends on how you move I think I moved differently single than I would if I was like actively talking to someone I liked you know, but they're like, oh, are you flirty person? And yeah, but Obviously I do you think you slirt with these guys? Subconsciously, yeah I That's a problem. You know. I think we all know it's just like our banker, you know. Yeah, but these other guys won't know that, right? And I think that's a lot to ask some guy to trust that like, hey, it's cool that I Would you You met a guy and he's got seven girlfriends. And they're in these guys, are they asimoto or they all like decent looking guys that you just happen to be friends with They're decent looking. Yeah. Okaykay. So like imagine if some guy you met had like five decent looking women friends and he's like, o yeah, we're just friends, whichich again, is totally possible. Yeah I like to think that Friends were also great people and beautiful women that I just wasn't, you know into. But if I just was like, yeah, yeah I flirt with them sometimes. You know, we're friendly, we're flirty. That's a whole different. Yeah, I don't that's a challenge. You know I definitely wouldn't do that if I was like actively talking to someone. I think we've all just been single a long time Yeah, she's kind of our banter. But like obviously I'd want a potential new boyfriend to be friends with my guy friends and like that way, like I want to cut them off, but I knowew I couldn't be doing certain things, but like I still want to do fun things with them. like we'll go camping, we'll go quadting, you know, we go on snowboarding trips. Like yeah, I mean len I dont w to do that. Without your boyfriend? Oh, either or, I guess I mean, I guess, Maybe it wouldn't be appropriate without him, but I feel like if he couldn't come or whatever the case might be and I still wanted to go. I don't know, I guess that's circumstantial too, like Cavwal. Yeahah. Listen, it's one thing for I think it's weird to For a stranger on Tinder demand, you get rid of your friend group Yeah I think you going on vacation bunch of Gu reggardless if they're your friends. And your boyfriend can't go because you can't get off of work It's a lot girls there too. It's a lot it doesn't matter. It's a lot to ask. It's just a lot to ask. And I'm not saying you can't find it, but it does it's a lot to ask And yeah. It will really be up to you Like I think the biggest thing is If you approach it like, hey, I understand it's a little weird, but hey, get on board because these are my guy friends. versus Listen. I know this is really weird and I really like you. and to the point where like I really I want to make this a priority and I see a future with you And yes, I have some guy friends, but I really want you to feel like You know, becausecause listen, if eventually Do what are your like you wantan to get married? Do you what are your relationship? you do. o? Right. So like Eventually, if you marry someone who's not in this friend group, you're not. You're not going to be going on snowboarding trips with them very often if at all Life will slow down You know, especially if you want to start a family Th I just think, you know what I'm saying? Like I think you just have to acknowledge that a little bit like you I agree. And so I would be careful to be protective over what your life looked like right now like you said, you're single. You can do whatever the fuck you want Exactly. It's a, you know And when I was single, I did whatever the fuck I want. And that's the benefit of being single. This is why when everyone's out there, like, I wish I could find someone and be like, well, you know, I get it, but like enjoy what you have now because there is a shit ton of freedom. and being single. partart of being in a relationship is it is there's less freedom And you have to make compromises and sacrifices And I would just be careful about how much you want to fight for maintaining the status quo with these guy friends. That's all. I've recently acknowledged that. and I think I'm just trying to take advantage of like everythingthing fun that we're doing now and how my relationships are now and I realizeed and I've talked to Max about it. like we realize like This isn't going to last forever once he finds someone or I find someone or even my other guy friends, like they They draw the line real quick the second they start talking to someone where they don't have to tell me, I can just tell because I the way they're acting And I respect that, you know, I will never cross that line or I willll make sure their girlfriends feel welcome in a big group of people as well, you know? So that's the thing. I think you just have to go with the flow and you have to just every like everyone's different you, all these people in this group are all going to meet different types of people with different expectations. But like the big thing is is you just acknowledging that this this group of friends and this season of life is Almost it is temporary And you kind of want it to be temporary because you know, your relationship goals are one that you want to meet someone and start a family. And like other people are like, I don't know, want to want I want to go to Burning Man with these people until I'm fifty, you know? Like there are people like me that's fine, but that's not you. But right now you're really enjoying your friends and it's a lot of fun. So enjoy your friends. And then you might meet a guy who is open to the possibility, but he like any guy who wants to like start a family like is going want to feel like he doesn't have to compete with your male friends for attention, for affection, for Just feel close. like you are friends with these guys. So you have a closeness. There is a comfort. At first, like a new guy's not going to have that And so seeing you being comfortable and intimate, not like intimate sexually, but just like being comfortable with someone is a level of intimacy And I would just be very mindful of how comfortable you sound and act around these dudes when you're trying to get to know another guy And I would be careful about how quickly you try toin and that's something thing when know, how quickly do I bring it up? I wouldn't really bring it up Because the more you bring it up, the more you make it seem like a thing If it's to the point where're like, I want to meet your friends. likeike I do have a lot of guy friends and like, you know, I, you know, and it's more like I've been single for a while and we have a great group of friends They include guys, but like, you know, a lot of them people are single. But don't worry, like I'm not expecting you to deal with that. Like I don't, you know, but like All I know is like, I like you and you know, these are my platonic friends. And like it's just more like, I think it's a case by case the more you make it a thing The more it's a thing. Yeah, I mean, I definitely get how it could be like a little hypocritical where it's like, don't worry. theseese are just my friends. I just D is one of them It's not hypocritical. it's just again, it's it just really comes down to I think you have to be open to things changing for the right guy. Yeah, I agree. I think best case scenario they can I'll be friends. they might be into the same things and hang out without me. But yeah, I think that's really good advice of like watching how I act and how comfortable I am with them if I introduce someone new because I think that's just something that would happen like subconsciously. and I know someone new I bring in wants to feel like they're needed or they're the protector instead of My guy friends, but I also think I've never been in that situation. like The last relationship before My ex and a friend group was like long distance so They didn't really have to worry about Bring anyone new in and everyone else adjusting Now, I mean, you're only twenty five, so Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I mean, I think Was this helpful? I don't No, it was. yeah. My friends and I just like constantly debate this. She's in a friend group too. She's like someone' sister, so she's like No one would ever try anything with me because they're all friends with my brother as well So I think She thinks this iss circumstantial? Well, if you're only going out with the boys, yes Most people are just going to assume It's going to take a guy with a lot of swag to walk into that group and steal you away Oh, that's never happened.'t I don't blame them mean. I know how it looks on the app. So But if you meet a guy on the apps and he's just not, you know, Don't make it a thing. If you make it a thing, it becomes a thing Yeah. but and then for the right guy, you just have to be quick to When you meet the like listen, if you meet a guy you're excited about, I don't think the first thing you should be figuring out is how to immerse themselves with guy friends. And if that is your big priority, then like, I don't know I think the right guy. you're just going to be focused on him. When you when we fall in love or we fall in l, like whether girl we have a tendency of like falling off off the map and like our friends being like, whereere'd you go? And then you're like, I'm in love, you know, And that's not entirely healthy to be that drastic, but men or women There should be a level of like, this is the person you want to spend most of your time with And you don't want anything to come in between that And so For the right guy, it should be pretty easy And you will, I'm assuming, like when I met Natalie and We started dating I was very protective of her, you know, I was very protective of how she felt aroundround my friends. And same way, you should you're going to want to feel protective. You're going want you're going to want this guy to not feel weird around your friends. You're not going to want him to feel this. And so you will want to move differently. and maybe that move differently is to not just be like, all right, on the third date, let me introduce you to a bunch of dudes. You know, You can be like, yeah, I have a lot of guy friends but like, yeah, I've been sing And yes, I'm friends with my ex because like, listen, at the end of the day, we were friends. we did you just downplay it and notot because you're lying about it, but you just like, but again, like, you know, I hope you meet them someday. you probably will if we keep dating, but like I just it's A lot of my relationship was based off the fact that I was single. I had know an answer to. If we're in a relationship, I'm not saying I'm gonna stop being friends with them, but it'll always be a conversation with you. And you're just gonna have to see how they are. and you might find a guy who you realize that maybe is a little too jealous and a little too insecure and gets a little extra weird. I've definitely been in that situation When I was young were like my friend,, my boyfriend at the time. felt, you know, jealous or insecure or wherever it may be because we're also very young. And subconsciously, like I dropped my friends to I can be a good girlfriend and like hang out. It wasn't like, oh, you need to drop one, but like Oh, like, what are you doing? I'm worried about you I want to spend all my time with you and that way I didn't have time for myith friends and I never got those friends back and I've also been dropped by one of the guys in the group because he had a girlfriend and all of a sudden I just was blocked on everything And I think that's also like affected me where it's like I wouldn't ever drop anyone because a relationship, but I know where I draw the lines in the sand. Yeah. Well no doubt, that guy's girlfriend made him blocker. Jealousy comes from insecurity. Either either our partners make us feel insecure because they're flirting with a bunch of people and that feels weird or we just have some insecurities. Usually it's a combination of both. Now that you're older and more mature, hopefully you can have that balance You can still like get to know someone, make them feel prioritized, make them feel like they're you they're the person. You really want to invest. I hey, I also have some friends, but there's going to be a time and a place for that. But in the meantime, while you get to know a guy I wouldn't be like, yeah,m I'm grabbing dinner with Chuck. Don't worry, we're just friends. You can trust me. Uh ye Like, yeah, it might be a little weird. like you probably can talk to them or whatever and like, you know, but like yeah, you might have to like They might have to wonder where you went for a period of time while you get to know a guy. I agree. Yeah, that would be definitely inappropriate. But that's but that's not the same as blocking them and disappearing, you know, It just might be like, hey, shes she met a guy and she's really excited about. She's been spending a lot of time with him lately you know, so We'll see her soon, you know, type of thing I think I'm I think it's I've been friends with these people since I was like seventeen. So that plays a factor too. Like we've all seen each other of like grow up a bit And if I met these people maybe like a year ago, I wouldn't be it wouldn't be so hard for me to just be like, a big deal. I had a great group of friends in my twenties, you know, from, you know, that I hadd known for a long time That's a It's a fun time of your life, man, you know, it's just like honestly, like you being in your twenties and have a great group of friends to do things that now you have a little bit more money and independence, you know, like you can't do that at sixteen, you know? So like you guys to have these fun experiences and you're still like kind of yellowing and you really don't have anyone to take care of but yourself. it's a fun time, you know, So enjoy it, you know And let this be like an exciting chapter in your life that you will always cherish because someday it's going to end It just most likely will. And if it doesn't, it kind of gets sad because like the fifty year old debt you know, head Burning manan who are still keeping the party going because they just don't want to let, you know, There are seasons that are life they come and go. It's time for things to end. Yeah exactly. But when it does and when that when when that time comes, that time will come at because Things change You meet someone, your guy friends meet someone You just have to be willing to adapt and not try to hold on to the past Yeah No, it's definitely helpful I do think a guy who's like Hey, do you have any guy friends? No probablyrobably not your gu because he probably has some baggage. He's a little closed off And you're probably going to need someone a little bit more open minded and a little more grounded and maybe a little bit more secure. But even the most secure people can be made to feel jealous if you If you make him feel jealous Yeah. I mean, I definitely wouldn't mention like certain things coming in like, hey, by the way, we go on these trips and you know, I' go fther with them. The biggest thing is just because something's normal for you doesn't make it normal for the masses. And when you try to normalize something that most people wouldn't see as normal It feels kind of gaslighty and weird. And it feels like, so you just have to acknowledge that your situation is unique and that and it's subject to change. And it's not something you need tore what you're trying to force. But like, yeah, you met me at a time where I was really single and I a lot of guy friends. and like, you know, if we get married Some of these guys might show up at our wedding because they are my friends Oh I'm not expecting you to be best friends with these guys. I'm not expecting you to be okay with me vacationing with these guys. That might be something you have to You know, h Yeah. U becausecause, you know, that's weird, you know, that this is. it's just They're not saying you do anything wrong. defeinitely a unique maybe unique is a better word. you know, it's unique It's rare It's not something the average guy is going to be like, awesome Cool. I'm super secure And like that doesn't bother me at all. When you ask someone to trust you, you are asking them to do something. You know what I'm saying? Like I know sometimes we say just trust me as if like it's a Like what's so hard But sometimes we are asking people a lot to trust them Right So like, don't ask someone too soon to trust you in a big way where you haven't built up that rapport or connection. You know what I'm saying Yeah. So if early on you you like a guy, you're excited, but you don't have a lot of history with him and familiarity, it would be a lot for you to be like, I need you to trust me to vacation with men L could put it like that yeah. Yeah So not that you ever can, maybe they might be friends with them, but like that's a lot to ask someone. Yeah you know, and I think you should Yeahah and just recognize that go any. Cool? Yeah, this is definitely definitely helpful. I will stop mentioning it like early on. I think I don't wan to waste my time. so I'm like, let me just throw it out there. Yeah, I think that's kind of yeah, you should stop doing that. ' it seems like you're the single mom's out there, it says like, I have a kid, and that's not gonna change. And no matter what happens between us, I have this kid who I will always love and will always be there. and I'm going to need you to accept that about me and work around it. And when you bring that up Like on a first or second date, that's how it sounds. Like I got, I got five dudes you have to live with You know, like you're going to have to love them like I love them and you're you it's like it's like. It' like I just met a girl and she just told me I have to be friends with five dudes, you know, like you know're twenty of them too, yeah. Yeah. you know what I'm saying? Like it's whoa, you know, yeah, I don't think you bring it up like it's a thing Okay. a lot of our Friends of the opposite sex, whether you want to have sex with them or not, still play a role of like what a boyfriend or a girlfriend would ultimately do You know, I imagine sometimes when you're down bad, they're there for you to talk to and open up to and be vulnerable with. Like that's your boyfriend is going to want to be that guy And he's not going to want other men to be in that role. And by all means, if you want to have a girl chat about some girl stuff Pop off quQueen But like if you want to talk to a guy about your feelings, like I'd like it to be me Like that's what your boyfriend's going to want and rightfully so You know, and you's understandable. Yeah. That's the big thing. Yeah. so do you think that guys and girls can just be friends about Anything else happening? Of course. ye But you always you always have to be mindful that that could always change And you can't pretend that like and you can't speak for other people. And by speak for other people, you can't be like she would he would never Like you know that you would never Yeah. But like you can't speak for other people. Things could happen. They could not that they're in love with you. mayaybe they get lonely, you know, mayaybe they're down bad You know, when we are down bad and we feel lonely, we look from familiarity. Yes, you can be friends and most times it's fine, but like it's it's not stop saying, you know, it's not the same as your girlfriends and it's not the same as you are friends with a gay man. It's doesn't mean it's I agree doesn't mean it's not friendly and it doesn but it's just not the same. And I think just acknowledging that is okay Yeah But yes, I definitely think you can be friends. And I think these while you are single, these can be men that you trust and these can be men that you go to for advice and these could be men that you're friendly with or flirty with and vacation with and go have fun And just if you meet the right guy, you just have to ask yourself, all right, what what needs to change? And I wouldn't ask him to get comfort, you know, just like the timing yeah, just you need to get to know him first. I definitely appreciate this. This is definitely very helpful. Yeah. I try not to like speak more my guy friends. I always just say like if they don't voice it or act on it, then That's what it is right now You know, even though like listen, if I were a betting man You said there's twenty guys here in this group. yeah, I can ever take. One of them would date you if you wanted to date them. I just like like maybe I just don't see that like And you're not supposed to see that. You're not because you're not interested in them and you're not you're notinking that way. And I'm not trying to give you head. I'm just say they would do something about it if they felt that way. Maybe Mbe personalities. A youose arere you equally close with all of them? No, deffinitely not. Okay. so maybe it's one of the people who are like outside looking in, I don't know It would be hard for like if I, you know, like some guy you meet, you know, it's just like really? All twenty of them. you can speak for all of them. They You're like, arere you that undesirable that no one wants to see you make?? I guess the other way ye. you know, Again, And again, but that's what I'm saying. It's like, donon't be the person who's like, no, they're all amazing and I'm like close with all of them. And I defite like definitely they're all turned off by me. but it's like don't go that hard to the paint where you're trying you're just sounding It sounds weird. I think also my head, When you were like, oh, maybe one of them would want date you, I'm like, o, well they're also all friends with my ex So I think given opportunities A lot of them when it jump on it. That's a thing. that could be the reason why they haven't made a move I think it would be a different story if it's not even about dating you. It's more like if you were drinking and you guys you guys drink as a friend and you made a move on another guy I bet a lot of them wouldn't turn you down Even if it was just for like a hookup. Yeah And that's all you have to acknowledge and just be mindfulver And as long as you're not pretending that's not the case I think that will go a long way with. I think a lot in these situations, men, you know, and I think just like as a women, like you know women, right? So like when you you know how women move in ways that like maybe guys don't appreciate And you don't want if you met a guy who has like had a bunch of women friends and you were just like Yo, I know women and you like you may know these women, but I but I know women and you're just like, you don't sound like you know women. You would call bullshit and you just want to know If a guy's friends of the woman, that like he is being realistic about how women move. and how self aware he is to like how women see him and how, you know what I'm saying? And so like There's just a level of being realistic and self aware that any guy that you date is going to want to see from me And the more you try to convince him that this situation is normal, the harder it will be. because while it's normal for you, it's not normal for everybody That' definitely helpful. Cool And I'll try to be more self aware of like The reality the friendships and N not breaking up right away. Yeah, these twenty guys are not your kid Yeah Yeah. All right. well, thanks for the call. I appreciate you I really appreciate it. All right, takeake care. goodood luck out there. Thank you. All right. Bye. By bye. One of my favorite ways to upgrade our room when I'm feeling like it needs a change is to always change out the bedding. It's to get a new duvet and it's to feel like my room just had a major upgrade. And I'm doing that with Bowlen Branch. Bowlen Branch makes premium bedding made from organic cotton that's designed to be softer, more breathable and more comfortable over time. They make everything your bed needs. Sheets, pillows, blankets, and comforters all from organic cotton that's breathable and super soft The first night you sleep on it, you can actually feel the change. It just feels cooler, softer and more put together overall. We started with the signature sheets and then added the waffle blanket and comforter. It basically made the whole bed feel finished. 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Now starting at six hundredllars ninety nineents with exclusive student pricing starting at five dollars ninety nine cents complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must have electronics and accessories. Limited time deals and free shipping on PCs and more await you at deell dot com slash deals dell. com slash deals How's it going? Hello U My name is Sarah, and I am thirty five years old How can help Sir Um okay, so I've been having this I don't want to call it like an issue, but This's like complication in my relationship everver since we started dating, where my boyfriend is a photographer by trade and he's a freelance photographer And he follows a lot of models on Instagram and reaches out to them about test shoots and things like that. And I don't know how I feel about it. And it's, of course, a lot more complicated than that But as the base level, that's the issue Yeah. Yeah. Hollyam been dating To years How long has it been I'm assuming it's been an issue. Like how did like when you first started dating, how did he Pitch this So I guess it's one of those things where I just I can tell, like I mean, maybe not everybody looks at who their partner is following, but I think there's just like curiosity and I think it's always been like for him and Part of me he'ars his side where it's like, you know, that's part of the business and the industry. You know, I'll ask him like, how do you find these models or like, you know, like are you searching for them or And a lot of times or he'll just say like, I'll see another photographer post them and I like their look. And so I'll follow them and see if, you know, or if they're in the area, I'll try to create a connection. And so it' he kind of poses it as a networking And part of me does get that and I understand that Um But at the same time, if It also feels like it's a very specific person, like they always have less than so many followers. There's this part of me that feels uncomfortable about it, I guess, you know, like for whatever reason. Maybe because they're all too similar or similar how like they all look the same? They all look very similar. blonde hair, big tits Like under a certain amount of followers, like does't really ever foll reach out to like big models or models with like a bigger following that feel more like models, you know? becausecause everyone's a model this day and age onlineike, you know Does he even know their models or are they just pretty girls online open to being models or I think both. So most of the time they'll have you know, you can tell by their feed that there are some, you know posts where they've they've tested with other photographers before and you can see that. And so whether they're like trying to get into it or they have work on their page that they're sharing or whatever not, but sometimes it's pretty vague. And it's like, is this even a real model? Is this a full time job for your boyfriend? It's a full time job. So he's an established photographer He's an established photographer and How does he make his money? He makes a lot of his money through corporate, like he photographs biotech companies, he does headshots. He does fashion, so he'll shoot for some fashion brands. And I think that's where what he likes and kind of where more of his passion is. He be a little bit more creative. and I do think he has a talent for it I want him to be shooting stuff, you know, like I want him to be successful in doing what he likes. Is he working with I was a model for About six seconds. I got signed by Wilelmina Miami. They sent me to Miami and they had me for a week do like a bunch of photo shoots and they and they set me up with some pretty established photographers to help me like put my book together Right? And I'm just curious is your boyfriend working with other modeling agencies where when they discover or find talent that they believe in, they would send that person to someone like your boyfriend do this shoot. Like again, I'm no expert in the in the photography industry, but it it doesn't seem totally necessary. And again, I could be speaking in a turn for him to be Proactively reaching out to models to shoot them is I imagine every photographer needs like a book I don't know, but he's how how long has he been doing this? fififteen years. fifteen years. So like I'm assuming he has whatever like How is him shooting young models who aren't signed by agencies, like what is what is that doing for his career Does he not have like an established portfolio of like really beautiful shots he's done that he could show perspective clients, I imagine he does point. And again, like Why isn't he going through the agencies, right? I don't know That was a good question. and he does. He does work through agencies sometimes. Sometimes agents hit him up and they ask him to shoot new faces or work with like maybe a greener model. And so he will do shoot He will do that sometimes. And he actually just got back from shooting for an agency and he shot, I don't know, like five or six models over a couple days, like one in a studio, one outside And yet is he does frame it as like building his portfolio, which I can see a case for when you're trying to move into, I think the industry, I don't understand it really that much. And even in two years, still it still feels like a very foreign world for me. There's just a lot more nuance within it than I think like just the average person that's not involved in it at all, like me really can understand. And so, but that's a good question. I honestly think I should ask him that. I think I should ask him like what is What doesn't shooting these models do for you? Like what are you good and maybe it's just like, you know, I could I feel like if I ask him that he would say like it's just experience, it's Networking,' I mean, it's too It's way too vague. It's you've been doing this for fifteen years. Like he's not breaking in So yeah, and I've brought this up to him like before to let him know that like, hey, this kind of bothers me and And I don't know if it's like from like a selfish perspective of where I'm like, I don't want to be dating the guy that DMs random chicks on Instagram, like you know, it's just it almost feels embarrassing for me. L, you know, like I'm like, you're better than that. Like you don't need to be Like You can There are other avenues, I guess, is how I feel about it. I don't know. I kind of agree, you know, It's like And also like, you know, you're a blonde. was he not rishing out the brunettes? Like what's going on? Yeah, not often. It is interesting. And then there's also another like kind of big piece to it but I also would like your thoughts on that has to do with an ex girlfriend of his That's kind of been like a major play in our relationship since the very beginning, who fits the same stereotype of a woman And I don't know how much I'm like overthinking it or if it even has anything to do with it at all, but yeah, there's that as well. When I had brought it up to him in the past, there was a point in time where he did stop following. Like I would say like, you know, he just turned forty last year. and I'm like, I don't know how appropriate it is. like these are young, they're young, you know? And it's like he'll use the argument of like, well, what if it was a a male or a female photographer reaching out to younger male models, would you still feel like it's as the same, you know? It's just I'm like, I don't know, maybe kind of. And there was a point in time where he did stop following quite a few of these like random models. And you can see like they don't follow you. of them most of them don't follow you back. So it's like you haven't worked with each other in the past. What's the point? And you look at their stories and their feed, and it's just all like It's an ass and sex and it's hot and it's cute but it's like that's probably he's on. But if you're on Instagram like, that's what it's feeding all the time. And I'm like, Yeahah, but I also like. Yeah There is also like He' supposed to be he's a forty year old man who's been doing photography for fifteen years. He should be established And I am assuming he would want to be thought of as someomewhat of an important person and by important, I mean just like someone with experience, you know, like I'm assuming whether regardless of what his real intentions are And it's honestly a hard to say. Do you know, I have very little information. I'm just, you know You would think that he w, you know, if I'm a fifty if I'm a forty year old fifteen year veteran in photography with the purest of intentions, I would want to be careful that I don't that I'm not perceived because in this industry, whether he's one of them or not. I am sure he's no, you know, like there's a lot of it's like there are a lot of men who got into photography to meet chicks Maybe all of them. you know, and some of them might turn out to be like really great photographers. But at some level, or at some point, yeah He you would want him to be have reached a level of success that he has something to lose and to be thought of as not as accessible or just to get like, I guess any industry that sells a dream and certainly like modeling is you sell a dream. It is filled with people take advantage. peopleeople chasing a dream And if I'm your boyfriend fififteen years in I would want to be self aware enough to know that. Right And so back to like, what like Pively speaking, what is this doing for your business Other than like, you know, what? like he's he's basically it sounds like he's describing. It's like just keeping me sharp, you know, just just working on my craft. you know,m just like he's a basketball player just like shooting a couple extra free throws justust because he likes the grimind You know, O if he talks about it, it'll be like, u Like he wants to be shooting, you know, and a lot of times in industry like you end up taking like assisting gigs or digitecting gigs to get by. And a lot of photographers do that because I've met a lot now and it's very common. And so it's like just setting up shoots, you so that you are shooting and you are producing work. And I see it from that point. and I also likeike want him to be, you know, successful and whatever you know, he needs to do to get there, feel like he's getting there. Wan to be supportive of? Does he ever shoot men He does, he does shoot men, but I don't think he's ever reached out to a male photographer. They've reached out to him See, that's craz Yeah Yeah, see, that is a good point actually I mean because if this is about reps this is about shooting and this is about just getting, you know, again, I'm more women in modeling than men for sure, but he's never reached out to a guy Maybe maybe he has, but I pretty sure not toast since we've been whyy isn't he following any hot male models? Yeah, I think he only really follows models that you know this is about our worked with before, you know. Yeah. You know, like if we're giving your boyfriend the all the benefit the doubts. I think there's sometimes maybe a level of like, he's just convinced You know, like no guy wants to be creepy and no one needs to be thought of as the creep. and I think when you say it out loud I became a photographer to meet chicks. That just sounds inherently creepy But like listen, we all do things inv by people. We all do like, you know, everyone's doing things to meet people in a way I think again, when it comes to the modeling industry, it's an industry that sells dreams. so there's an extra level of like it's easier to take advantage of people But I guess what I'm trying to say is this like I' it's not shocking that like if we're giving the benefit of the db that he's just convinced himself that he's one of the good guys. and I'm not saying he's not one of the good guys, but he is not being at least self aware that mayaybe even if you're one of the good guys that like you You are giving yourself a pass on optics that just don't land And, you know, and you might not be a creep or have bad intentions. You might not be sleeping with these women, but like you're only following women that typically seem to be your type. You're not following men. You shoot men You should be reaching out to men. Like at least one out of five, I don't know. Like why don't you follow any of these people? Like why are't youet you know, like it's Has he ever dated any of any models that he shot Has you ever been hooked up with any of them ever in fifteen years? I don't know You've never asked. I've never asked That's a good question. It's hard for me believe that hes definitely wouldn't be the type to take advantage or I'm not suggesting he took advantage. I'm just like suggesting in the most organic and like he was single, she was single. There was some flirtation and like he dated one of them. Yeah, I would be curious to know that and maybe that's something I should ask. I don't even know what that information would do for me. Maybe it would make me feel more uncomfortable about the situation. Yeah. But again, like best case scenario for you He is just ing a bit obtus. that's the word to use here. about like the optics of his industry. And at the risk of feeling a little cree you know like he's doing something wrong because maybe technically he's not doing anything wrong. He is unwilling to just acknowledge that some of the things that he is doing is just kind of like hard for any partner to accept and while he's not doing anything wrong, he is not necessarily moving in a way that's quite honestly super appropriate and not consistent with like the way with the story he's selling Because if this was just about experience and shooting people, then why isn't he ever shooting Why isn't he following these men? Why is he need to follow any of them Why after fifteen years? whyy isn't he the photographer who's like, yeah, he doesn't follow models You're lucky if you get to shoe with them You know, like that's what how I pitch it to him is like you don't have it's like sometimes I'm like, whyy are you following this comes doesn't look good. He doesn't come across. his his internet behavior doesn't come across as an established photographer. It comes across as someone who's like, I want to get into photography. And it matters like these platforms matter these days for photographers and for anybody in the industry, I would say. And And yeah, like like I had mentioned like this girl looks so young. He's like, o, I just shot her. like this agency reached out. And it was true. like they did and he did shoot her, but it's like you still don't have to follow her.. And he said, while he said like, well a lot of times when the agencies want you to pose, they want you to collaborate with the model, like everybody wants And I guess for me, I'm like, maybe you have to be following each other. I don't know. I don't. That's you do to collab. I was like, okay. Yeahah so I was like, okay, and that does make sense. And it's this girl is also isn itt her his type specifically. So I didn't really have any like There was no like guard going up or whatever. I was like, okay, I hear you. mayaybe I should Stop. I also don't want to be feeling like I need to keep a check on it, you know? and That's J just taking a lot of time. if what if anything is he doing to like just does he acknowledge at all that like You're not crazy for like Yeahes. So that that is the thing is that like what I had brought it up in the past, he did stop, he did go through and stop following a lot of these models. like, you know, that I had kind of been like, come on, you know, like it feels like you're leaving a door open and it just feels disrespectful to our relationship. L it's just kind of like It's just also like come acrosses a little at some point, you know, And when I was single, I was, you know, you it's like you don't even realize it at first. You're just like Oh shit, I' A lot of mes You like follow here and a follow there But yeah, at some point, like a forty year old guy in a relationship, it just kind of comes across as shady or creepy. And I think at the point where I brought it up to him and he did stop following and it did feel like, oh, okay, this is Like it gave him an actionable thing and he I felt very respectful and then I felt good about that. and I'm like, G I don't really need to bring it up again. And then it just You know, five, six months go by and then it's happening again And I'm like, okay, well, why did you correct the behavior al like in a sense before, but now we're back You know So that's confusing. It's almost like he kind of heard me and he felt Okay, yeah and then He didn't really feel like he was doing anythingthing I don don't even want to say he's doing anything wrong because it's like maybe it is completely innocent. Like you said, like all things you know Give him the benefit of the doubt Mbe it is I isnt it would make sense if you brought it to his attention and And and he made some changes for your comfort never felt like he was doing anything wrong and then just like time passed where he just kind of got back into old habits. But yeah, I mean, listen, you know, whether it's you or like I just at this stage of his life, I think he should from a business standpoint It's just like listen, like the anyone looks looking at your page is gonna I don't know. it's just, you know, it's funny. I still follow a couple photographers back from my very brief modeling career and they will post a lot of Beautiful pictures of beautiful women and very sexualized, you know, I have no idea if these guys are in relationships or things like that. I don't honestly haven't looked to see who they follow. I don't know I If nothing else, he needs to stop reaching out bunch of strange young women, especially if all those women you know, where it's just like It needs to be a little bit more business focused. and I don't think he needs to start following those people right away. And yes, if he's getting work through an agency and he want they want him to collab and he does that. But it sounds like right now you're playing the cop And you're observing these things and you're like being the angel on his shoulder that says, arere you sure you want to do that And now for you, it's also coming from a place of like a little insecurity, from a place of like, well, I'm your girlfriend But even if all you were was like his business manager You know, like you have some valid points And you probably would just wish that he would evenven if it from the business side, makes some slightly different moves. because The way he the way you're describing how he moves, it is hard for me to totally understand all the Bus reasons for why he needs to move the way he does. and I think he would agree. honestly. And so then Okay, and then there's There's also So about the same time that I brought up him This makes me uncomfortable. I don't know if this looks good. There was also this whole like saga with his ex. and I feel bad like talking about it because He really struggled with this like this during this time in his life, like he Before we met He had been separated broken up with this girl that he had been dating and this girl was tied to his best friend And I think he had brought this girl into like his life and his best friend at the time and his best friend's wife at the time. and then his wife and his ex were like really close got really close and they had like this forsome of just like being really close and doing a lot of things together. And this was like his best guy friend, like his closest guy friend. And then when they split his whole friend group, went with her And he like lost not only like his girlfriend, but his best friend and this like core group of people where he like really identified with and had a really hard time with it. Why did he lose all these friends So I think He the girl he was dating at the time was ready, like wanting the next thing and he wasn't ready. Like I just think like he describes it as like and it kind of goes into this like It's not related, but it's kind of related to like the way that related. Yeah. so and you would think like, oh, if this big explosion or whatever in your life had happened, like that you would take a look at like the way that you live and the way that you're moving and clean it up or you know I don't know how the best way to describe it, but he kind of has like the victim mindset, like when it when it comes to it. Do you know his ex? I do not. I wish that I could talk to her. I bet it would blow your mind I think it would too. And that this is also part of the thing is like, o man, there's like so much I don't want to get into like all of it, but So before I forget why this ties into it is because when I had brought up the models and following thing to him. I also he has like a professional website. and there were pictures of her on his professional website still, and they were like old photos But you know, you select pictures and you're always changing what's on there. And it just made me uncomfortable. And I'm like, why do you still have her on there? Like she's made it clear to you that she's moved on. She's engaged, which I'll get to. And she's like has been in this relationship for a long time. They broke up like years before me and him started dating and he was still like so torn up about like had' it healed at all, it felt like like when you started talking like I think We started dating in twenty twenty four. We met in twenty twenty two. We didn't start dating until two years later. And by that time, they were already broken up and had been broken up for a year or two So we're talking like four, five, four years, probably at that point. It's a lot of time U and it makes you feel like it makes me She also bl. She's blonde. She's got call call like the word I it's it is is aes Yeah. So u And Sheelsso's kind of like got this like, I think she's from the Midwest. I'm from the Midwest. Anyway, he had these pictures of her on his website and I asked him to take them down. I just like was like, it would make me feel comfortable if you took them off your way. They're not like amazing pictures. It just feels like you don't have to justify it. It's a fair.. And he didn't, and he wouldn't. And he kept pretending like he was like forgetting about it or he didn't know it was there And it's like, and I had like not like five days in a row, I would say something. and then like a few months later I would really look at his website and'd be like, whyy is that picture still there? You know? And it just felt like, I don't know, like come on. Anyway, eventually he did end up taking it down, but it felt like I really had to like ask and re askk multiple times, which was annoying And yeah, anyway, so Did he eventually take them down He did eventually take them down. And so they're down now and yeah, anyway, so they're down now. But when we first started and he opened up to me and he let me know like this like riff happened in my life, I lost my and he framed it as like he was really missing his best guy friend which I do think there is truth to that. But the longer that we've been dating and the more that things keep coming up and the more that I see and the more that I kind of learn bit by bit, I feel like it was more about her than him And so it kind of feels like it doesn't feel like our relationship was built on a lie by any means, but it just kind of is like, oh, was there more dishonesty from the get go than he's leading on? And how does that make me feel? Like you know, it was like he was so distraught about it, but he framed it as like, that was my best friend, like as in the guy, you know, And he wanted everybody to be able to be friends. And like you know, because they all still live here and they are into the same music and we'll see them at shows sometimes But he see he sees his ex best friend and have you ever met him? Like they're not even sayi. Are they Yes so On Valentine's Day this year, we saw them at this show in the city And they were there, his ex, his ex's fiancee and his ex best friend. And I was kind of upset with him a couple days later because he didn't introduce me to his ex best friend. And he talkks so much about him and there's all this thing, but then he's like, he'll frame it to me like F him, like F that guy. like he doesn't he doesn't come up and talk to me And I do get his point to a certain degree. L his friend did like cut him off and it was shitty Like maybe unnecessary, but I won't I think I wonder You know if that's totally true I don't know and I wonder if Part of it was because My boyfriend had a really hard time letting go of the girl and they're all intertwined and like the ex friend just couldn't handle like all the everything that came with like them not being together anymore. you know? And part of me is like, oh, he wanted this relationship so bad that like with this girl and she at one point she was like, I'm done with this. I'm not waiting around anymore for a ring or whatever. And she moved on. And I think he just likeike I think in his head, he was like, she still loves me. There's no way that she could be with somebody else And now it's like now she's engaged and it's like all coming to ahead. and it's a lot for him. But yeah, we saw them On Valentine's Day, no communication. like I didn't get to meet any of them, which was sad and we had run into them at previous shows and he wouldn't tell me they were there. And he would know. And it's like and then I would find out later by some other way because I didn't really like in it's dark at concerts, and don't I've never met her. So it's like, I've seen a picture or two, but I really don't know if I would recognize her on the street to be honest. I don't know. And so it's just like if it's this big thing, but then you can't talk to me or Anyway So that's kind of always been a thing. and And he also was like, well, I don't know what you would be comfortable with or you know, and that I understand too, because It's been an issue for us because like I would say like last June, so this has been like almost a year ago now He went to we go to the desert a lot to Joshua Tree. It's like a big trip. He's got a big van sleep in the van. Okay. so There's this show every year is really into like desert Rock. and it's a kind of a niche genre of music. and he introduced it to me. I love it. It's fun, you know. and so He went down to the desert, I went with him, and then I flew back so I had to work. and he stayed with his van And there's a lot of nuances that with this story. like he was staying with this friend of his. Well, he was staying in his van, but Parkking at a friend of his house And this friend of his is They've been friends for a while. She's also a desert rough fan, but she's Very like eclectic and like he had told me a story about her. She's like the Swedish bombshell, like that like he had hooked up with in the past. and but he'd never had feelings for. And at this point in our relationship, this is like a year in, I'm not one hundred percent comfortable with them spending time alone together. Like as I feel like anybody would. I don't know her that well. I don't know her intentions, you know, I just And that had been brought up to him and he still decided to stay like park his van at her place and hang out with her while I wasn't there. And so there was that. And then they went to the show together and They saw they ran into his ex and her fiance And I wasn't there And so he tells me like after the show, the next day, he's like telling me, oh yeah you know, she was there and And I just like and he's like, and it made me realize that like I don't want anything to do with it anymore. Like I feel really good. And he was kind of framing it like that, okay And I was like, okay, like did you talk to her? And he kind of like gave me like a runaround of like, yeah, a little bit, this and that. And then He came back, you know, and like we talked. and I just had this feeling, like I I don't know. like sometimes you just get this intuition. so I went through his phone And went I went into his deleted text messages, which I didn't even know you could do at this time that I'm doing. And I guess you can delete certain text messages and it'll save it in a deleted text message folder. So I'm in this folder and I'm opening up and like undoing all these deleted text messages And then I'm going back into hisessages messages to see them. And he had deleted all these specific messages between him and this girl that he was parking. his F And it turns out that he went to this bar The night before the show and without the girl's house that he was staying at by himself And he ran into his ex that night and didn't tell me about it. And we talked on the phone that night too, and he didn't mention anything to me about it. which is is kind of you would Anyway. And so and he's messaging and the messages are like And so it's like to to even consonsciously delete certain messages is like, okay, you obviously know this is wrong, you, and that this is something you should probably bring to me But then the messages were like, Ohh my God, she's here. she's with her. with her boyfriend. I don't know if they're engaged at this time What do I do? like I feel so weird. She's acting like she doesn't know me. How can she just ignore me and the friend's house he was staying at? How long you been with him at this point One year And this girl iss messaging back to him. and saying like, should I come and like corner her in the bathroom and like give her a note? And My boyfriend's responding back like I would be forever indebted to you if you helped me basically get a conversation with her and all this stuff So it was like he was like ecstatic and also just like shocked, you know, and like wanted to and just It was just very clear between their exchange, you know? And so that hurt. And And so then I brought that to him and I was like, what is this? Why didn't you tell me you ran into her the night before? And he's like, it was just a lot. like And a lot of it probably is like resurfacing trauma of just like, you know. Yeah, you're you're Why you so understanding I know because I know he is a good guy. And I don't just say that like he's a good guy, but like He cares about people and his friends and his family to a degree that is like H hard to find honestly, like into today's day and age like I think that he like relationships like close relationships really mean something to him. Like he'll cry about like his best He has like a friend, like like he's just like, I hear you, but like means well. And would you would agree that something's not adding Like you would agree that there's like Something about the way your boyfriend moves that just doesn't add up You like when you tell the story, there's just like, Yeahah, but The fact that he was dating this woman with this friend group And when they broke up, that friend group shows her. Yes. like says something. Don't know what it says specifically, but it definitely says something So he'll describe that as like it was, it's the best friend of his, the guy best friend of his, it's his wifes is running the show. And his wife is like he'll just do whatever his wife says. And he's like, he's, you know, Yeah maybe maybe you know, maybe, maybe. Or he's just like a super respectful husband Who's like, yeah, I mean, she's my wife, bro And she is my ride or die and she's my partner. And at the end of the day, he isn't that guy I don't know if that changes. Well I know he's not that guy because when describing his ex friend, like he would be involved in like sleeping with a bunch of prostitutes and like always lying to his wife and cheating behind her back and all this terrible stuff, Which also begs the question for friend of them. But you know what I'm saying? Like there's always There's always something about a story that just doesn't add up. And he might be a really nice guy You know, but I'm saying it's just like he is. for and he's having a hard time If nothing else growing up in maturing You know, it's like fine. He used he used to reach out to models. Why is he still reaching out to me You know, there's a version of the story where it made sense and it wasn't creepy and he was just out there hustling and he was single and whatever, it just was what it was. Maybe he dated a couple of them, but like no big deal. you know, But like You know, his his his ex girlfriend who he was sounds like super in love with And you're right, You paint like an accurate picture where like he probably took it for granted and probably thought she they would always get back together and then they just didn't one day. And that fucked him up You know, but it wasn't enough for him to do anything different There's a version of him still expecting people. to like follow him He's got a van, he goes to con has this alternative lifestyle that he doesn't want to give up. and He's full of excuses and reasons and I'm not saying they're lies. They're just kind of it's all kind of It's a little bit of bullshit, a little bit. A little bit of his life is bullshit You know, And at some point and listen, like, you know, I was super single in my thirties and like living out in LA and doing all these crazy things. and like it's weird how comfortable you can get. Like you do lose track of time in a sense like or even like your I go home to Wisconsin and like my friends are different stages of life that I was. and there's a lot of it, It're like, I'm living the good life to compare to like, you know, they're living vicariously through me But yeah, it's It can get weird fast sometimes And yeah, it's just like it it He should be past the point of reaching out to random inexperienced models like that. Should I be upset that He had messaged A friend of his saying that he was distraught finding out that his ex was engaged and this was like a month and a half ago. Yeah at this point. Yeah. I think you're way too accommodating and understanding. and I don't doubt that he is a good decent guy with a lot of. I don't think you're like delusional for wanting to date him or fall in love with him But I think you're in a way being taking advantage of, it kind of sounds like. you're just you're understanding like and again, like you've been dating for two years. And the way he needs the emotional support to run into his ex girlfriend is jarring. is like that reminded me like the way what you described, I haven't been in that state of mind since I was like twenty You know, My first girlfriend, we broke up a bunch of times it got back together, but she always had this hold on me And I would try to date other women and I would try to convince myself I was over her and even convince them if it got brought up, but like I never really was Yeah to a certain, you know, a certain extent. Like am I in that place? Yeah I that friend right now? Yes. Yes It's two years. you know, if you if it was like, he'd been in for two months and it's still kind of new, we're still building. And so this is what it'll tell me is he'll say, you're, when things are good with us, this I don't want anything else. I don't my mind. I don't think about her. I don't But when there are rifts or when things are When you bring up the fact that I have DM models, then I start missing my ex girlfriend. It's like, okay, let's Great. Like so it's all your fault And I mean, I'm not perfect, you know, like I'm not and The thing that he doesn't like that I do is like, I'll get to my bike. I'll run out of patience and I'll be like, I don't want to do this anymore. L I just, let's just be friends. you know, like I don't want to do this. and he feels like I break up with them. and then it's like this whole thing. And that's your big just that's your big fl. Yes. that sometimes you come to the realization that doesn't feel right and it's too heavy and I'm too understanding. And I honestly can't make sense of all your different reasons and stories for why You're a forty year old man who Liz I don he doesn't live in a fan But like like lives the van life in like DM's twenty one year old models while he also has a thirty five year old girlfriend. who's ex girlfriend left him because he just didn't want to grow up or settle down. and despite his love for her couldn't do that Like, what are your relationship goals I would like to get married and have kids. And what And what about this relationship and what about him suggests that's going to happen anytime soon for you? That's what I' am asking myself and that's why I wanted to talk to you because I realized that, you know, and I feel partially guilty because things haven't been perfect with us because of I mean, and I would say like a lot of it has to do with my reaction and the way that I'm handling the things that are being thrown at me But I don't I mean, I don't know how you're handling it, but like you are justifiably upset. and you are just like I'm sure sometimes you handle it. good and sometimes you handle it poorly, but the fact that you have to handle it pereriod Yeah. is an issue and you've been having to handle it your entire relationship. Yes. and you're trying to basically like Convince yourself that like he is enough being the nice empathetic caring person who has a big heart and just like maybe does some charity and 's a good guy. but like he is maybe just a good guy to too many people and he's not a great guy to the people he needs to be a great guy to spepecifically You know, the people have a lot of different opinions about me, you know, in the world. U And I do like to think the people who know me a little bit think I'm a pretty decent guy But like what matters to me is that like my wife thinks I'm a great guy and that I like she, you know, and she doesn't have to like, I mean, it would like to have to con too know that my wife would have to just try to convince herself that she has nothing to worry about constantly. That is like not a that would bother you Yes Yeah. Like you how is that a rel If you have to constantly wonder and then have to do mental gymnastics with yourself If you have to like replay conversations that you've had with your boyfriend why he does what he does. And then kind of be like, I guess All the time, like you're never in a state of comfort and security that you should be in. And again H track record is one of like He doesn't want to settle down He's not in. he I mean, he can't even he'll say he does. He'll say that's what he wants. No, he doesn't. Then why didn't he settle down with her? Yeah And I think he regrets that. and he'll regret that probably for the rest of his life. And it's like that sucks for me because we have so much life left to live that I want to do together. I mean won't I don't, you know I think you should live Sorry. I don't know I don't know. I am sorry. I don't usually like to make these kind of There's just a lot of things that I just this does not sound like a Yeah. I wouldn't want this for my friends and you're thirty five and you're still obviously young, but don't do you want kids Yes. you I mean, I do with the right person and the right situation. You know your biological clock is a thing you have to consider that he doesn't Jesus not giving you a lot. what What about like all you've told me about him is that he's kind to people He has a great relationship with his family. comes from a great family. I think that he is like but what does it What surrounds What does it have to do with with You too. You know, I guess my point is it just like, I don't again, you can say a lot of things about me and like I do think people think who know me think I'm nice, but no one describes me as like this overtly kind people who's just always just like, you know, walking the streets with kindness. And again, I I do ch I do a lot of, you know, but like I just even sometimes my siblings will get frustrated with me about like how closed off I can be and I'm, you know, but you know who No who doesn't think that? My wife You know who's never No who's never thought that ever, my girlfriend because I'm in a relationship, like I prioritize, you know, like I'm very good at knowing where my energy is going to the frustration of other people in my world. and it's great that he's a nice guy and it's great that like everyone's friends with him and everyone likes him and it's great that he's just like But I would say he's selective and I feel special in that way too is like I and I selective how I I think he's selective and like You know, like who he does spend time with and And I feel like he does give me Like I do feel like he loves me and I do feel special in that way And like I do feel like he does treat me really well in his sweet you know, and we have like a really good thing and like something that's hard to find. And I'm sure you probably hear that all the time, but He has, you know, like his past relationship that he's so bent out of shape about Like that was probably his most serious relationship aside from ours. And he even just told me the other night like This relationship that I have with you, I have never had this with anybody. L we lived together. He had never lived with anybody before. And. Yes But think about but like Yeah. like he's not twenty five Yeah, he's forty. Yeah. and he has I just I think he has to have greater expectations for himself and how he moves. and I think he needs to Listen and I listen, I didn't marry like I'm I'm for like I'm not trying to a shame him or trying to be like He can be the like I live a young life. There's some aspects of his life that he is I think he needs to mature I think that part of it like as a man has to do with like feeling like you can take care of a family before you agree, like you do that. Sure Part of me feels like his He wants his career to feel like more stable and more like solidified and