Summer House and Bravo Scandals

This is doror Lauri Santos from the Happiness Lab, and this message is brought to you by Simple Mills. Simple Mills packs nutrient dense ingredients into snacks that taste amazing like their cheesy light and airy popems or their five different delicious flavors of almond flour crackers Lifting you up, never weighing you down, so you can keep shining through the day You could say simple mills is the feeling of the sun in a snack Find simple mills at your grocery store. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Val Files Reality Recap Eedition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household and my wife It sounds so weird when you just say Wh I know It It's because you're so much more. You're so much more. much more. Yeah. It just feels like ish continued, seexy know. Cool funny funn fun funbody. Yeah. Wonderful. We got a fantastic episode lined up for you today. with so much love, Island to get to. Obviously we have all the drama of the weekend to talk about Kyle is a free man and he is starting to spread his wings cook. Leaning over leaning over Kissing over the DJ M ging Maddie Heilly. be honest with you. That's a read. Lots and lots and lots of stuff to get into. We have a fantastic episode for you. Annaeel is with us. and if you don't know who Annappeel is, you will after this episode. She's a very accomplished journalist who also just wrote a very exciting new book called Enter the Villa. She had full access production of Love Island and she interviewed I think, many, many hundreds. cast members, producers. really got all the tea on the history of Love Island. She's here to talk about the show, share with us her insights of Love Island what she learned to give you guys a little behind the scenes of the history, the production, how it all works inside the village. Obviously you're also to talk with us about What we're watching unfold on season eight of Love Island. Maybe she'll have some some spiritual thoughts about the Melanie crashout. The Melanie Crashout That wasn't really a crashout No. Yeah. Lots and lots into. She's also just a big fan of all things. Bravo So's here to talk with us about some Rhode Island. I've never my life I need a sack of on. I don't think I've ever done that When Rula' not yet. Husband, when she came out for her party and Rula's husband was like, wow, I wish I had a stag of wine. Words that never come out of my mouth. You know. You really know you love a strip club When that's the first thing. I've never se your wife dressed up for a party, rightight? And you need a stack of ones. And you're like comparing her to h Looking like she's entering a strip like that's entertainment for the lady. That's where your mind goes. not like, honey, beautiful. Wow. If your husband's really focusing on getting a stack of wandes and that's in his vernacular, Well, I a deal break the lady. He also said, Ho Ellen, sorry, Joe Ellen is. He practiced that He did. Heir. He pitched that to when he was in his office. you could feel I felt that he could feel the cameras around him Yeah He was doing a scene. Tomorrow, we have a fantastic going deeper. Kelly Potter from Real House W of Atlanta joins us to get into all things going on in the world of the Real House Wz of Atlanta. It was a great and exciting time for us to get to know Kelly Potter a lot better. What a dynamic and fascinating person and we're excited to get to know her and have you guys get to know her a little bit better and that will be tomorrow on going deeper, so do not miss that. Also for all you Kalabas's Confidential fans out there. We have Gemma from Kalabasa's Confidential later this episode to talk about her experiences on that new hit show streaming now on Netflix, Fascinating cast and fascinating storylinine. So we were very excited to get to know her and what it was like be inside the Calabas's confidential community. we had a date night last night. Cute. F first one in a really long time. What did you to do? We just went out to dinner. You know I just loved it because you know, we went to Beverly Street Grill and it's what's the Hillstone? Hillstone. Have you ever been to a Hillstone restaurant? Really There's fresushous sushi in town There's some in New York. o I just love it because I love it. likeike we went on a Sunday night and no matter what like when you walk in, there's always a vibe You know, there's like a vibe, there's like a good of energy. It feels like you're like in it, you know. It felt like we It felt like date night. It felt like we were out, you know Yeah we' in this enjoying like The world and culture and society versus like going into a restaurant and it's like kind of empty and you're like, Oh wow. The host is in the backroom and they come up and yeah. You're can sleep? Yeah. one. It was a lot of fun. Would you rather have the most romantic date night in the world or for Nick to bring you cooco Pebbles exactly when you wanted them See, he does pretty good with the coco pebs, but I also like I have to eat it in bed. Oh, really have to or it feels is it the same with the fruity pebbles or just the cocoos. So she can leave a hfy of cocoa pebbles with milk and at her nights sideide table So that so that I can take it day later. But it's really just because I feel like eating cocoa pebbles, eating any like child like cereal table b stool likeike that feels intentional like you shouldn be doing intentional. I poured this myself. I sat down I was like, I'm gonna to sit to the table I chose this. I grown up because they' just showing up you're like real You guys, I got to be honest, it's Seinfeld rules with cereal for me at any point in time. I'm going to be standing there with a bowl like Jerry in his apartment to stand and eat a bl of cereal, I do think is the way And something about that. I haven't had a bowl of cereal in a long time, so I don't know that I can contribute to which It's been my number one pregnancy. Honestly, it like hits. I Oh I b it into scrunch the other day at gery whichich is another thing. I don't buy it when I'm grocery shopping we like doordash it lateater. You know of course all we need is the cocoa ples. That's all we need. Yeah. But I did buy cinnamento's Crunch in the grocery store the other day and midday I was like I think I need a bowl of sinamon' g. Yeah, dude. And it hits so different. It's a pig need a good bowl of s. What would be your go to sus? I would say Cocoa puffs or Cocoa puffs. Is puffs? Yeah. oh yeah, puffs. I think you're a peutirl. They sometimes have the peanut butter ones, right? I do. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah. It's been so long since I've had cereal. Do you guys remember the Reeseese's puffs? Do you remember the commercial that they used to? The Reesey's puffs and the Reies? They had the whole wrap For theiesy bus That was the one I remember. Anyway. Yeah, I like those. I also I also love a fruit loop T can't say T can't say I'm one of the only birds I'm not afraid of I don't like birds anyway. Well, it was a great date night. It was our last date night before, I assume before the twins show up.. Ny's having a hard time with the transition from just a river It's like, I feel like she's gonna to be mad at me. I feel like she's gonna to be like, mom What are you doing? We had it so good. It was just us and we did everything together and like now I'm potty draamed. And now who are these two bitches? Yeah. I'm like what's they're taking your attention? Like you can't hold me. What's going on? What's the vibes? O they there they hang out with her Is it like a sentimental thing of like these are your last moments of just y'all two and River? And like I feel like there was before River came, obviously like you kind of grieve What's like the last bit of you and just you and your partner. You're like, okay, it's never gonna be like just us anymore. We're never gonna be able to just get up and go on a date night where you call a babysitter, figure out his no, no. And's going to be different And so I feel like I grieved that before River, but now it feels tot like it just totally different L I'm not sure about that like with the twins how it's going to work because like right now it's just like, you know, in the morning we'll be sleeping with us and there's like a cuddle session and it's just her and there's like a bonding moment. But what happens when there's two at any age? Yeah You know A all three of them in the bed with us? Now, I feel like rivers rivers' growowning up Iother accley said. No, like she, but she's not ike that's what I'm saying But she's growing She's grown up But she's on her way. Yeah, but I slept in my mom's bed until I shouldn't have been And I still pop in. I stillop every now and again I'll be there. But like I want River Do that too, no It was a fun dayight we talked about our future. Yeah. Do you guys have like a California king? I feel like you're gonna need to upgrade even more. once D you know the California King is only longer? Oh, okay. wider. Do you know special custom may. The only reference point I have for a California king bed is the Rihanaong California King Honestly trait song. So like it sounds awesome. Yeah. ye. but we don't even have that. No, we just have a regular king. Okay Maybe if Amanda Francis goes back. to Beverly Hills, then she can get tight with R Rihanna. Brianna can get you guys a California c. Again, it's just longer. it's not wider. No, but it's like we could put more's like it says California before it. think of like the burrito. Like you get a burrito, or you can get a California burrito. N never had either. Are we loving? Love Island with as much passion as seasason seven and six or is it just too early to tell? I'm honestly, I'm enjoying it currently now more than last season. I have a hot take about it. Give it to me. I think that it's a little more I think that they seem a little healthier as people. Yeah, whichich is great But not as the world loved toxicity. Like that's why we loved last season because it was so messy, so like unhealed and bad that it was like everyone was talking about this like explosion. and now I'm like, are people going to be talking about it the same way? because these people seem kind of Okay for me, it's just like It's a little much. There's like the kissing the kissing and then the hornreesome No, but like the threesome vbe like made me so uncomfortable. The way it was just like one big bed and it's just like up to you to decide what hated every second of that question for you Do you think Love Island is just cocoa meon But horny for adults. What is Ccoa meelon? Cocoa meelon? Oh yeah. see I see what you're saying. Coa Melon is like this show for kids that's just centuries. dancing fruits. Brain rot. Brain rot for kids. I think Love Island is Cocoa meelon. It's like horny Cocoa melon. Yeah Clor. It's bright colors and goo and loud music and then No No as soon as we turn it up. You know, it's just sensory overload. River's locked in. like we can't put it on with ver. Re really? Oh It's like the colors probably. Honestly, drag race is the it. We have to distract We like doing so many other things we can't really watch it with her aow and we had to do some homework before date night. So we watched it and she was there. was little I have to show you. But even as an adult, like I find myself watching it and I'm just like, You know what I mean? L it has this quality to really warm itself within your brain. I mean, it is kind of weird. It is like a bigger conversation where I'm like I didn't have a show like this growing up, even if I was just in high school watching this, like I do think there is something I buy into all the hype. I love it. I watch it, but I I do think there is something like inherently like kind of gross andicky and I'm like, danging like, this is what High schoolers are watching and like maybe thinking is normal. I mean Well, Jem is about to come up next, but before we do, don't forget the Vafiles pllus is available and ad free for all you fans out there get all Vafil episodes ad free pllus additional bonus content like our reality Recap, deeep dives where we dive deep into the granular topics of our favorite shows. Obviously we're very much locked into L Island summerhouse right now We'll certainly get into the valley since we haven't had much time to talk about that. Danny, I don't know. it's keepeeps getting darker and darker. So we'll have time for that obviously on V Files plus. So be sure to sign up. G val files. com to do that. you'll glad you did. All right. Well, let's get the gym As I am getting ready to prepare myself for postpartum and trying to be as comfortable and relaxed as possible, I am leaning on the pieces in my closet that are from Quint because I know that they're made with premium materials, they're comfortable, they last. They're staples, they look good no matter where you're going, what you're doing, how you pair it with, they're just pieces that hold up and everything is priced fifty per to eighty percent less than similar brands They cut out the middlemen and work directly with ethical factories. I don't only love their clothes. I also love they have great. Duvets, they have great betting, they have great Home decor ks. Their blackout curtains. let me tell you are blackout and they look chic and they look great. They also have baby clothes. I've been finding so many great things on Quints. Elevate your summer wardrobe G go to quQuints dot com slash Vi alL for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns. now available in Canada too. That's QuiinCE dot com slash Vi alL for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns Qininces dot com slash V I a LL This episode is sponsored by Better Help During the summer people are either thriving or surviving For some people, it's travel, plans, kids out of school and nonstop activity. For others. It can feel overwhelming, like you're just trying to keep up. Well listen, no matter the time of year, whether it's summer, fall, winter, it's always good to check in on your mental health and through the help of a mental health professional therapy is now becoming more and more accessible Thanks to Better Help. We know how difficult it can be to get therapy. It can be intimidating, it's certainly be costly and just feel generally inconvenient. Better Hp is helping alleviate all those pain points. They're working with over thirty thousand licensed therapists and have served over six million people globally. They make it incredibly convenient. My favorite part is with all the therapists that they're working with, they help ensure that you work with the therapist that you feel That's the most challenging part about therapy is finding the right therapist and you can switch for free until you land on someone you feel connected with. It's truly a great way to just prioritize your mental health. Make sure you're keeping your mental health is in great shape as you do your physical health. It's as important as your diet, It's as important as working out, sometimes even more. and betteret Help is helping people do that. All you have to do is go to betterhelp.ot coma answer few questions about therapy that you're looking for And you could be talking to a licensed therapist in no time. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer, find support and therapy. signign up and get ten percent off at betterhpot com slash ViLl That's betteretter Help HLP d. com slash ViLL. Gemmi, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thankk you for having me. Did you ever imagine you would be a reality TV star reppping the city of Calabas'? Hell no. But somehow it seems kind of fitting at the same time. I'm like maybe this was all meant to be was. Yeah it feels like it makes sense because I mean, I don't know. I mean, usually back in day it was always like Beverly Hills and some of the more iconic cities, but Calbas has more and more you hear about like that's where a lot of very fancy people seem to urprising it took this long Yeah. I know me too. I've been waiting for this. honestly. I'm like, and then when they came to me, I'm like, yeah, let's do it. I would watch. I mean, it was striking the first episode you have like Brett Michael's daughter, you got Masterpiece son. Yeah. I imagine going to high school or growing in Alabasas, wasas it did you realize that so many of your peers or people, like families were Legends or super famous or were you was it just kind of? I mean, honestly because we all grew up together from when we were so young, you don't know that. And then you just are like, once we start getting older and people start having crazy parties and like artists start showing up as like to perform at like a fifteenth birthday party and you start realizing like this is people are wasn't like dipload, Wn't he recently perform forid someone's like second H his son's kindergarten graduation or something? No Iiconic onest. Did you ever have a moment like that where you were Oh, I'm not at my party specifically were you able to participate or get invited because some of your friends for sh I Tby Red, Travis Scott, like just random birthday parties in their backyards in Kalabasas. Yeah. That's crazy. So when this opportunity came about, they came to you and said, what? What was the like original pitch that you heard Basically that we're looking for kids that grew up in Calabasas that went away are now coming back home in their twenties and have no idea what the fuck they're doing. And I was like, I'm perfect Literally. Now we couldn't help but notice that the early episodes, especially even s around you, there were conversations about relationships that took in high school. Now for you, how did that feel or was it like did you have to lean into that or did it feel a little like odd for you to like go back and reminisce about like high school orr did it make sense or was it actually something that was still like gnawing at you I think so The relationship that I had to relive on the show with Dylan I feel like, yes, it started in high school, but the thing with Dyl and I it never ended.. And so it is a long ongoing thing that He likes to dismiss a lot U But it's still very present in my life. I can't shake the man And that was so going back onto the show with him It was still very much present current emotions because what is it about him that you can't shake I don't know. I think I really should have listened when they said Be careful with the guy you lose your virginity to. I feel like that's like You get told that your whole life and you think it's such a detail, but I don't know, I was young. I was like, I like him and he was a piece of shit, but like You know, and then I decided to do it and then now I Is he a piece of shit or is he just a boy? That's a good question. Honestly, I think he's I think he's just a boy at the end of the day, but a boy that is learning and growing And then what do you like, do you have friends or family in your circle who are like, what , you know, I don't know I've always I had learned a hard way dating when I, you know, but like when when do when does your friends or family or support system, whoever it is, you go for relationship advice What are they telling you about Dylan? And where do you draw the line between giving him as an excuse that he's just a boy and holding him to like, how does Dylan? twenty four. Okay's like he's a man. Yeah. he's an adult man. He's an adult man. But yeah, how where do you draw the line? Actually, my parents and my family had no idea about Dylan up until they watched the show. He was more so just like a friend that I would bring around They had no idea they about anything that happened to me in high school related to him at all So that weird? Y, they're all like kind of looking at me at the table like table a little weird right now. like you guys know too much. That's interesting you say that because then like Brandy with her son. Yeah. She was like, I knew he lost his virginity when I heard like Exactly. Yeah. So it's like it was very like fluidly open with parents.. But then with you, I guess. it's not like my parents make it a weird thing to talk about at all. I just feel like I don't like to talk about it with them. Yeah. My family, I don't know if you catch like the vibe on the show, but we like to make fun of each other a lot. It's very funny.ike we're kind of like friends almost. my family, We're very close And so I feel like I've seen my I'm the youngest, I've seen my older siblings bring in people and like my parents still will bring it up at the d. Remember that guy? And I'm like, o, I don't want to deal with that.. Anyway, going back, you said it's ongoing. So you still doing whatever with Okay. notot like to this day. I think there's just we're very comfortable with each other. it's very toxic and you know, sometimes you just you like that. How many times have you cried over him? versus he's ced over you. Oh my God. Okay, to be fair, to be fair, I've gotten the fair share of snapchats, like crying from him, I will say. But I've definitely cried more I mean him saying that you are just a two AM call and then he goes, oh Maybe sometimes midnight razy. And' crazy.. I mean Like he called me right before this, what time was that like noon? Yeah. He got the wrong twelve. He got the wrong twelve I impize with you because it felt like he was messing around with other girls while you weren't. Yes. Is that accurate or I think that's typically what he does is I feel like he very much likes to love me a lot in private and hate me in public And he does that by like getting with other girl because he knows that's what how it hurts me. You think he's doing it despite you. Yeah I mean, I've known this kid since I was fifteen. I'm twenty four. people like like even when I went to college, it didn't stop. I was all the way in Oregon ild. Can we talk about Se Please can we? So I was confused and I'm a fan of sw, but the first episode or the second episode she's giving you big Sis or advice? Yeah And then the next episode, she's dating Dl. Yeah. basasically It's giving Amanda pula. you're watching something. It is. Yes. it is. It's very on theme and with the times. And like She was close to you, right? Yes. So like was that as shocking? A hundred percent, I think everyone was completely shocked by that because she was so much like, I'm bigger and better than all of you. She's really giving that vibe and I'm gonna coach you guys and like be this big sister to everyone specifically or No, just in life. I feel like she always is like, I'm just gonna be a person you can go to because I've been doing this for so long and like she acts like I Why would I even bother, you know, with that That's basically how I got it from hers likeike, why would I even bother with that kid like and then They went home after Kikichella and I guess She gave him a ride home. L then that was multiple rides. Yes, multiple. Where do the two of you stand today U We're not friends. Yeah. I don't I did not appreciate the comment about calling me an unemployed girl from the Valley. I'm very much employed. I work in nine to five in marketing So that was crazy. And yeah I don't think what she necessarily does counts as employed. so doesnes't she do? I mean like, you know, she was and she was big in her time, no longer. you know, How do you think she keeps up with that lifestyle? She goes on yachts with guys and does things for money. And so That I don't count that as employed either. So So the photos of her like with Drake were you're a yach girl Let's just say what it is Where you with Emma these days versus Swayade? Honestly, watching it back, I have a lot of respect for Emma I feel like she defended me in times when I was int there around Dylan when she didn't need to I will say at the party, I came on a little strong at her and I feel like In Calabas is, I've had experiences of feeling left out like I don't belong. and I really did get that from her watching it back and I felt bad I felt bad. I really did. And I think U moving forward. I'm going to make more of an effort to make her feel like more included and hopefully like move because I mean, she got she dealt with Dylan too. He was a piece of shit to her You know, there's no need to hold on to that. but she was respectful about me behind my back. I can't say the same. She was a little more honest. Yeah for sure. yeahah. What do you think it would take for you or what do you think it would have to happen for you to be friends with Dylan anymore. That's a good question. I don't know. mayaybe if you like slept with my sister or like my mom. My mom's like probably one actually know. But yeah, I don't know because that's a difficult situation. I do have I feel really sorry for him. I have a soft spot for him. Yeah Yeah Like romantically? Not romantically, but as a human. I feel like he's been through a lot and he's told me a lot about it. so So did you how did like production find out about Dylan? Was this someone that you were like They basically asked about my experience in high school and I told them about, you know, the things that had happened to me the whole like telling everyone that I lost my virginity to him, Buddy Mary, all of that. And they were like, who is this guy? 'use he's getting cast. Yeah. This is gonna be great TV. And I'm like, I know. He really owes you rightes? I know he does. and he denies it, but he does becausecause I definitely am the one that got us here. How does he apologiz for the bloody Mary? Um He' more of a like, it happened so long ago Water under the bridge. Yeah, water under the bridge. I ride bulls now. it's okay Where are you with, Nicole I love her, like my best friend. And is Nicole still Friends with Sede Um, I think like friendly, not as close as they were Because Swade implied that she was winning Nicole in the custody. I know that's crazy. by the way. I had to rewind. I was like,a Nicole. She burst out laughing when she said that and said, Are you blind? Like no one's agreeing with you.ot it. Yeah. So who are you closest with cast O and also other than Sede or there other people you just don't don't fuck with feel like I'm closest right now with Nicole, Kamora, Jodie, and Preston. Like those are that's like my little group right now. Kamora. Yeah, she's so funny. L I wish I wish she had more screen time, I do. She also had a similar experience to you. Yes, a hundred percent. Oh by the way, that fight, like literally only like ten percent of what actually happened Eagine. Yeah. Like that fight, that friendship breakup was like So bad. Really? Yeah. What did we not get to see that you wish we would? I feel like, I don't know, I might leave that for her to tell because it's not people keep telling me I shouldn't involve myself in things. But it was yeah, Emily what she did to Komora was ten times worse than what was shown. And so she let me just tell you, she deserved to be clpped in the face for sure. So what's your take on Emily in general U I think, you know, she said to me after the first day we filmed, anythingthing for a check And I think that is what shows on camera pererforming uh huh Mm And what won't you do on reality TV probably like have sex. That's a lot. So you're not on Love Island, you're sticking. Yeah, maybe. I keep seeing some comments, like we need you on Love Island. I'm like differentifferent platform though. have to be perfect match. Right True, true Or maybe age of attraction. Here you go, ye. Yeah. Fuck this is a funny question. Fuck Marary Kill people who live in Calabasis. Kim Kardashian, John Travolta, Dewayne Wade. Oh, okay, I'm gonna marry Kim Kardashian. Obviously. Kill John Travolta.ry,. Dam. And fuck Dwayne Wade. that is like really say that with your chest. No yeah. What are the reasings behind killing John Travolta? Is it scientology or you just don't like hairspread Wait, I loved hairspray. Okay. I'm gonna go O ancest showing up as a director. Have you seen his? Yes. And there' like explanation for it Yes, I have. but also I mean Adele Dim, I do think. Yeah But I do think that But I would probably rather have sex with Dwan. R Yeahm so conatulated we all would. Well, congratulations on the show. What will people be able to look for assuming you guys get a second season? I mean, seasons two is going to happen whether we're on camera or not. Like things have already been happening. There are so many relationships that have turned around Bys The boys are fighting right now, which I'm specifically. Preston and Dylan right now are at each other's throat. But you're closest with Preston No, Dylan. I She said That's the issue. we're having a little bit of a dilemma at the moment. because I am I have been very close with Preston, but I am talking to Dylan again So there's a They have such a soft spot for Dylan Yes, and Preston knows that. And I think Preston's playing the role of like you I'm just gonna sit here and let you do your thing, but I'm side eyeing you. Do you think Preston also is learning from like his parents? Larsa, right? Yes. Reality TV. one hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I think Preston is his mother's son for sure. He loves to be in the drama. And I think that's why him and I are a really good duo. Have you mescot Ppp Yes. Have you met Larsa have not I'm not. But she did call him and say that I'm good on the shows. That's a compliment. You got Lip the Lararsip and Stamp. Right? I'm like. Can you explain the importance of the Calabasas Commons? Every other scene was Calabasis C comm and sit out at his. I think that's the only place to go. I don't think people realize how small Calabasis is. Like the only That's where we wouldd hang out when we were little, you meet all your friends there. and then it's because the houses are so big and everyone has stuff to do at the houses they don't need like a mall. That's I mean, I would like a mall. We all have to drive to the city to go shopping, but that might be why the houses all have everything inside because we have to drive so far. So you're driving to LA. Yes. Okay Yeah. And what's your Lalaand order? I do like a banana cloud matcha Yeah go to. And growing up in Calabasas, were you familiar with the location of the Bachelor Msion? It wasas that like a thing for people in? Yes, I drove by. You know you were the only bachelor season I ever watched. Oh, I'm so sorry. Im sorry. Literally the only one Liter the only one the other verygest. So when they to me that, I'm like, o my God, again, meant to be because what are the ogs only bachelor I've ever watched. What made you watch that one and not the o? I thought you were co. Oh Yeah. Yeah, go girl. You my wife and my mom. Yeah, it's just just three Well congratulations on what we hope is a massive hit for you guys and it's a very fascinating community and show and hopefully you guys are around for a long time. Thank you. I hope so too. Thank you for having me. That was great. Thank you I love Gemma Can I just say Like this whole weekend I was scrolling through different TikToks and clips of like She's still out with Dylan She's still beeping with Sade I think people are calling it the next OC in Laguna Hills. They definitely are calling it that. I just wonder what I would say to Rriver If she was hanging out with a Dylan. And obviously like she would be an adult It's going to be challenging having these conversations with my kids when you're when you're past the point of like You can't do that versus, I don't think you should do that. I just can't imagine hanging out with all the people I went to high school with. like that is my nightmare Love you guys, but Well, if you want to live your nightmare, be sure to check out Calabas's Confidential is out now and is on Netflix. For all you Love Island fans the moment you've been waiting for Anna appppeal is up next and we get into the dirty details of just everything about Love Island. Like I said before, Anna wrote a very awesome compelling book called Eter the Villa. T all things Love Island and we do it we get into a little summerhouse in Rhode Island as well And that is all up next Well, if you love your dogs life as much as we love our dogs, Jeff, and Steve, you want to make sure you're feeding them top quality dog food. And we are doing that with Olli. Oll theses recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists using high quality ingredients. They create fresh meals designed specifically for your dog. From the moment you start, everything is tailored to your pup their meals are portioned for their needs and you get a pupainer in a scoop. so storring and serving is simple and clean. It's just like the peace of mind you want. You obviously love your dogs. And when you're feeding yourself or your family, you want to make sure those ingredients are good for the people you are feeding. Your dog should be no different and now you can have great high quality dog food thanks to Ali What stands out to us is just how easy Ollie makes everything and with twins on the way and our world about to get a little bit more chaotic. Easy is what we need. So get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. headad to Ollie d. com slash VLL. T them all about your dog and use code VL to get seventy percent off your welcome kit. When you subscribe today, plus they offer an obsession guarantee. If you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. That's oLL IE dot com slash ViLL and enter code VI ALL to get seventy percent off your first box Ollie, feed the obsession This one's for all my TV lovers. My Entertainment from Direct TV gets you sixty plus channels and Disney plus Hulu and HBO Max all in one pack. But here's the thing with so much great TV in My entntertertainment, you're going to want to talk about everything you've been watching. Just remember that your friends might not be as well watched as you. donon't be a spoiler and encourage them to get My entntertertainment for just thirty four dollarsy nine cents a month Go to directV. com slash genra packs and sign up today. New customers only service renews monthly unless canceled. Credit card required conditions applly to all apps. HBO, maxs, basics and ads begin after DirectTV five day trial Learn more at directtv. com restrictions apply Whether you're paying rent or a mortgage, it hurts the wallet every month. That's why we love Bilt. I I felt a little left out when Bilt was only awarding people for paying rent. But now if you have a mortgage, you two can benefit from the joys of Bilt. Bilt rewards members with points on housing payments, whether you buy or rent. You can redeem points towards things like travel, fitness classes, dining and more. They work with partners like United, Hyatt Lift Rides and Amazon. The neeighborhood concierge feature can help you make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes and discover local spots. Bilt has over forty five thousand merchant partners creating even more opportunities engage with the membership experience. Built takes something you're already doing every month and turns it into something a little more rewarding. Join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt. com slash viLL. That's JO I n viLT d. com slash ViLL. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Anna, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. We're so excited to. Super excited to have you. I've known Anna for well, I mean, I met you a couple years ago, which was very cool. And now she's written this really cool book called Enter the Villa that gives you basically the oral history like an oral history or a history of Lo Violland. just you describe the book. It's the whole story of Love Violland from UK all the way to the present seasons. Talked to so many islanders, talk to so many producers, the creators of the show, the hosts. I went to the illa It's like everything. It's from everything from casting to how they do the challenges and then like how it impacts the people who go on the show. So first of all, I'm just curious, how did you to get this type of access? Because I met, you know, when it comes to realI TV, obviously the production of these shows are very kind of protective of how these shows are made. and you know, there's always so many like nuanced conversations about reality TV, which we often have on this show in terms of like, you know, what what's the limit between like making a show versus the reality of it? And it's always it's always very fascination fascinating. But I'm just curious how does someone like you Cvince all these people to sit down with you, have these conversations to kind of give us the inside scoop of loveove Island I feel like you would know better than anybody because you work independently. Obviously, the networks aren't vetting what you're going to put out there. you have relationships with them and they trust you because they know that you're going to talk about it in a nuanced, thoughtful way And so I had written about Love Island before for Vanity Fair where I'm a contributing editor And that had been dealing with like very serious stuff because three Former cast members of Le Isolland UK had died by suicide And so I talked about how the show changed its duty of care to protect cast members going forward And so like that's about as dark as it can get for a reality show, right?. And so after I did that you know, they were like Well, if she handled this this way, like, okay, like we're cool with her. And then so the first thing I started out doing was literally going to the villa And so I was like, okay, like I'm in, but, you know, I was clear with them from the start, like it's like This is unauthorized, like they're not going to be able to read it. But you know, we worked together to get access to, you know, people like Ariana and Maura who are What So unauthorized means that You know, you're going to write it and you're not like asking for their approval before you edit it. Is that basically it? They didn't read it before it came out. Okay. Wow. So they didn't know what I know, they didn't know isn't it? But I think everyone's pretty happy with it because I think they can tell like I'm coming at this as a fan and like This is really like a love letter to the show, but when you're Like writing about something that you love, you also have to be honest with it. And not everyone who goes in the show has a great experience evenven though Literally no one I talked to said that they wish that they hadn't done it. You know, even people who like Dpression issues afterward. they're like, I wouldn't have ever gone to therapy if I hadn't gone on Love Island. Interesting. What that was that one of your biggest surprises talking to cast members? I was surprised that some of the people I talked like I talked to Earon from seeason six, who, you know kind of wound up being onene of the villains of the season and really went through the ringer. and you know, fans really turned on him and they didn't like how we treated Kaylor and like It was super traumatizing for him. He had major mental health issues afterward. like he couldn't get out of bed. He said he still thinks about every single day. I know. And even he was like I have now learned to take My choices are my own. I have to take accountability for what I do and I have agency in my own life I can't just like do things because people suggest it or they think it would be fun or they're telling you it might be a good idea. And I was like, that's really powerful to like have autonomy in your own life Yeah and to realize you have it. I think that's something else, like I even feel like from being on the show, the bachelor it's like you sometimes feel like you don't have a choice. and I I think in talking to other batches of people, a lot of people like to blame production or blame an edit or fans or whatever. but yeah, I feel sad for what happened to him and and I know how it feels to like continuously like go back to something, but I feel like he's probably a good person, you know? likeike he just made a mistake on TV. I think he's a really sweet guy. I don't know. Yeah. And too Yeah Yeah. I mean, he's definitely a sweet guy. We had an opportunity to interview him like honestly probably like It was right after the reunion, I think. Yeah, it was like probably when he was most likely at his worst. and it was like it was you could tell there was a sensitivity there and it just felt a little like kind of to your point because like You meet him and he's like this gentle guy and he was like very sweet and like It's not to say that he obviously made mistakes and you could critique his behavior on Love Island with Kaylor. but this the way the audience kind of just goes and whatever, you know, like they kind of they're very hyperbolic and, you know, one linea turns into you're a narcissist and all these name, you know, and people really come for your character and it's very I think for a lot of people on a reality TV show the first time don't aren't anticipating that and they will internalize that and start like You know, most of us aren't psychopaths and we're not narcissists, even though the world like is this kind of naming everyone. And if you aren't one of those things when you get called that in fact Temptation Island remember when Kale and suummon, Caileie was like, yeah, hes, you know, she was a saying and like he's a sociopath and he heard that. And you could tell he was like R You know, And thank God,, you know, if you if you aren't it will bother you if you're called that because you were reflect If you are a sociopath, you're like Well, it was really interesting talking to people who like became the villain of their season and like who really wounded and stuck with and who like just sort of like internalized it and then use it to make changes and moved on. I think it's what you said. I think it's like if that doesn't resonate with you, if you're like, that's not me, you're misunderstanding me. I think that that hurts so much more than if you're like, okay Yeah, that is something about myself that I do know and I do need to work on that Do you feel that like in comparison to other reality TV shows, like a Housewives for example, that the way a villain edit happens on a loveove Island or a dating show affects is because it is so much about like your vulnerability and the way you like love and receive love and put yourself out there. That is what where a lot of like the psychological like issues come from with like those kinds of edits versus obviously with housewives, it's hard, but that's more like friendship interpersonal conflict right resolution versus like You know, you're like vulnerable emotional relationship identity, I guess Well, it's just, I think, a matter of timing It's like on Love Island, it's being filmed and aired almost in real time. So it's actually happening to you. So it's over by the time you find out any feedback about it That's what alwayscinates fascinates me about Love Island. Like we're sitting here right now talking about it and right now, they're in the villa. Yeah. Like they're making avocado toast. d. And there's something happening right now. like you know Melanie might be having her second crash out. I hope not. I know. Were there any cast interviews or conversations that you had that surprised you the most or that really stood out to you I love talking to Rob. B Bob Rauch, hero slash villain of seeason six. Yeah. L I wound up loving and appreciating him a lot more after seeing him on Traders, though I did love him throughout I was talking to he was shirtless. He was eating a banana, he was wearing a bucket hat. No interviewing you? Yes. I mean You showed up and he's shirtless. Well was it? He was in front of his trailer in Alabama. He was on his iPhone four So he was just like sitting back in like the lawn chair, L I loved it. I was like,. I didn't know they had likeid feel authentic or it didn't feel performative No, I think that's just how Rob is. Every single person who like all the producers are like, he doesn't care. he could take this or leave this. Like he didn't really care about being on the show. That's just who he is. I'm such a cynic because I think I'm constantly like, oh, it's a bit. It's a bit. and he knows exactly what he's doing. Like he's got these overalls on and whatever. But like to hear that, to hear to hear he has an iPhone four? It builds a little authenticity. his brand. quality wasnt very good. I don't tell if this or not hone I was seventeen ye. F too many. I had Yeah. I think I had the four like Like, literally twelve years ago or like I think that was like one of the Like fourour was out when I was in like middle school. That's crazy it's nuts. But also he can afford the upgrade. So is it performative? I don't know. I just don't think he cares. He's like it works. Why break it? And even though like even if you saw like, did you watch season five of US Yeah, Ste was in Casa. And so like he did like the bug move, like like picking the bug up and like trying to put it on like the person he was talking to that he did in season six. and I'm like You're like, wait is that just his move? and you're like, he just likes bugs.g. But thatakes I mean, like that makes my brother is like You know Average Joe does tiling work and he's got the oldest iPhone as well. and he's like, it works. I can call my wife I can call my mom But about Rob is even I don't know what your brother would do, but there are a lot of people who are kind of your average Joees who do get cast on these shows and then they they change. Yeah. And not that it's a bad thing, but when their world opens up to all these different things and these opportunities and maybe they have the iPhone four Because like one, it worked, but also they couldn't afford to get another one and now they can and they start you know're doing a deal with Apple Sure Yeah you know, but like to be in Robs shoes and have his whole world flip upside down become this mega celebrity at least right now and still like stay grounded is a really fascinating element to him. But I think it's because like he after season six, L like he was going all these brand trips, he was doing shots like in clubs with people and he just hated it He hated like the person who he was there and he just like felt very it was like depersonalizing. He's like, that's not me. I don't like that And so like he went back to Alabama. And so it's like, yeah, he'll leave and go make money. But then he's like back on the farm for snakes, hanging out with his grandpa I love that for him. Did you meet his dad didn't hot ' that's hot too. It's a hot family. I'm so curious. Okaykay. I At first when we saw Zaca, I was like, Ohh we got Charlie Jr. like, I don't like this he's a little free I love it. It is a little fun. I also love it because like as someone who comes from family of ten siblings. You know, you've seen this with Love Island cast. They released the cast photos. Everyone's up in their Instagram, They're following their families. you know, like I have ten brothers and sisters. We're very different. And like I feel like the world will oversimplify, you know, your family members and what they like and what they stand for. and you really can't get to know someone by who their sibling is. And this is a much more simpler examxple that with Charlie and Zach where like they're They look like each other. They come from the same family, but different personalities, you know, like different vibes. Charlie seem to be like a more Nice, easy going, good looking, but for whatever reason the women last year didn't really like vibe with him, but Charlie seems to be a guy that like a lot of the women are like into and he clearly has a different vibe than Charlie, which is fascinating because they are brothers. I mean, if that baddy kid is going for him, then you know he's got something.. You also interviewed Charlie XCX for this book? I did. I did a cover story on her for Vanity Fair. Yeah, we' just I was like, oh like, You know, I I don't I think I just mentioned that I was writing the book and she's like, Ohh like W watch love viol, I love viol. And I was like, why do you like it? And she's like It's just so fascinating watching people be so mundane And then she was all we were talking about the moment that she was in because it was right after Brat. And I was like, well, how do you feel knowning that this moment isn't going to last forever. And she was like, it's like Love Islandence It's special because you know it won't last forever. Like that's what's interesting about it. Iways love that t. Yeah What did you learn Production wise, like with this filming in such real time How are they able to do that? So they have this thing called the control room and it's all the live streams of all the cameras There are like there are different number of cameras in the UK and the US, but it's, you know, like seventy, eighty, like around there. And so it's just like all in a board And then there are different editors who are watching the footage. and there's like a story editor who's kind of standing around sort of being like, Hey, what's that? What was that look And then the editors are like quickly putting together like these edits or like they'll zoom in on somebody And so like in real time, they're like, is this a story? Is this a story? And like it could not be anything, but like over the course of a day, you see like, okay, that was a thing and that wasn't a thing And then they have this big whiteboard And they keep track. it's like a story, B story, C story. And so like the story plays out. and then like once it's done, they erase it. And it just like keeps going until the end of the season and the whole board is blank. But it's just like all happening on the fly and like That's why sometimes like things will happen and you're sort of like, oh my gosh, They're making a big deal outad this something, but They obviously don't know how it's going to end. so it could just be something we never hear about again. I actually learned this last week because like, you know, with with so many shows, they film it, they have a down period, they edit it, then sometimes we're lucky enough to get screeners of him to talk about. And I was like, how can we get some screeners from v Is there any way we can get like get them early? And I because it moves so fast They have like this some kind of live stream that executives at Pacock will be able to watch while it's like being edited in real time. So like by the time it gets out they're not even really watching there's not there's not even really a screener. There's like a a live edit that they are watching and reviewing at the same time. which is also just fascinating because usually like there you have so many eyes on these things. there's so many notes, but like with Love Island, there's they don't have the time to be that thorough. Well, not that it's not thorough, but it's just more It's it's forced to be organic. Yeah. Yeah. and that's what's so fun. It's so spontaneous. Like they're constantly like, Well, first of all, they do have like a There is like a morning rough cut And then there's like an afternoon like slightly less rough cut. So they do like sort of like see it, but it's not you know, it's not like exactly like what we're seeing Um But yeah, it's like they told me that so many times like because They ask everybody you know, they' like Wh do you like? Wh don't you like? Who are you vibing with? Like Is there anybody besides for, you know, the person in your couple who you're into? Like who would you send home if like there were an elimination? So they have like a pretty good idea of like where people are at but they were like We make a plan for the next day based on what everyone tells us And then like we'll wake up in the morning and they'll be like, oh like You know, he doesn't like her anymore and now he likes her and they had a fight. And then so they just have to like rip up their whole plan for the day. because they have like challenges. they have like people who they were going maybe like be like, why don't you talk? But they'll just be like, We gott to start over And they are filming, they have one off day, right? that they like go to a hotel. I feel like I've heard this before. They have an off day and then they also get lunch off. And so like they're separated by gender, they're still mked so that they make sure that they're not talking about the show or their relationships, but they'll just talk about home and you know, like what movies they like. And you know, they'll do glam and like the boys will play sports and they'll listen to music. and like it's like really wholesome. really cute. They keep them separate, the guys and girls. Okay so it's completely separate. For lunch. One thing I wanted to get your perspective on. there's a part in your book where you you interviewed ucer and I think something to the effect that they refer to themselves as Master manipulator mas master manipulators which I thought was interesting because like I I have this very kind of interesteresting relationship with producers, I know so much. and like I see both sides. I'm curious as someone who's covered it from a journalistic standpoint and as a fan standpoint How did you receive comment did it change your perspective on the authenticity of reality TV So when he said He said field producers are master manipulators. So it's like the people like that he was an executive producer at that point. And like he's talking about the people who are talking with the actual cast members. And it's like you said, Suzie, Sometimes people will make like you' be like, oh, I don't have a choice, but like you always have a choice. And I feel like you shouldn't go on a show like this if you aren't comfortable making your own choices, even because like you know friend of the pod, Jeremiah, you know, he said like sometimes they would encourage him like, why don't you kiss her? Like, why don't you do this And if he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't do it If he did want to do, you know, he would, but They just want to keep people from sitting around on the couches and like just chit chatting. They're just doing their job. Yeah.. the show would be really boring if there weren't anyone spring them to action. And honestly, like some of the things that we think of as like being like manipulative or like harmful. Serena and Cordell, right? Like the true love story of season six, one of the twoue love story. together. St together But it's like You know That was torment for Serena They put in a woman who was there. She had said she liked Cordell. She meets Cordell Acasa. they immediately get together. That was so painful for Serena and they sent her the footage of you know, Cordell and the woman like look doing what looked like hooking up And so like it was awful, but if that hadn't happened, then I don't think that Serena would have had the perspective to realize how much she liked Cordell. And I think Cordell wouldn't have realized how deep Serena's feelings for him were and he might have taken Not that she was an easy choice. like she was a lovely woman who clearly was really into him But like I don't know that he would have stuck it out. Like in real life, would you stick it out if somebody kept kind of like blowing you off and being like, yeah, I don't know if I like you. You'd probably just move on. R. Right. But because you're in the Villa and you literally have to live with these people twenty four hours a day, it's like you learn to live with the consequences of your actions and how to move forward in conflict or Yeah, well, there's also this element that I think And it's funny because when I read that, I was like, well, it makes sense that they say that, but I was surprised that a producer said that not only because it's not from a oh, I can't believe they admitted to that, but I almost felt like they took a little bit almost like they uersld what they did a little bit because and Susie knows this. and I've referenced this before, but like being on the bachelorette When I was filming the second Bachelorette, I thought there is no way they're going to let me get this far again, have me be left at the altar, so to speak. They wouldn't do this to me. I had so many com like I'm not here to do this. I'm not here to be this And they did it and they did it anyways. And not only did they did this, they like forced Caitln They wouldn't let her break up with me the way Andy broke up with me. They're like, they can't, you can't let him not have his moment. I'm thinking, you're doing the worst thing possible for me. This is cruel in this moment. But the truth is like had they not made her do that and they not made me go through it, like I had a really great moment. maybe my best moment to that dayate where it was like I was vulnerable, I was really hurt. I would have never greenlit that on my own. I would have been like There's no way you're going to let me do that, but most reality TV stars don't realize, and I'm always telling them when they ask for my advice Your most vulnerable moment is your best moment. Like you buy like and you you can't fake that and you would never choose to like be you know horrified, like you would never choose to put yourself in that situation on your own because you can't see the forest of the trees. You don't know how this stuff works. but all these producers understand the beats of the show, they understand what the audience wants and what often feels like very cruel in the moment And it might take you a couple of years to realize it But like they they they in a weird way will have your best interest in mind, Alac Cordel and Serena, you know, where it's just like you need to be forced into conflict in a way in a short period of time. so you can figure out how you're gonna to like respond to that conflict and how we respond to that conflict is what makes us all fall in love with these people or you know, not fall in love with them and that's what that creates all the discourse. But it's like it's one of those very complicated things as a fan to understand and as a real TV star, like the intentions of these producers. like even though they put us in these situations. It's not because they're cruel or they like they don't wish us the best, but they are trying to like do their job and create good TV And it is a constant bouncing act of like what is the line of pushing these people too far versus like encouraging them get to a place that we know they're capable of. Sometimes like like you said When you screw up Like how you handle that, how you make amends, how you grow from that.ike because there are people in the show who have never even been in relationships let alone never dealt with a breakup. There are people who have like only broken up with people by ghosting them. There are people like I talked to people who are like, I didn't even understand what empathy was And like you watchatch them develop like They become sentient. They like realize, oh, other people have feelings they' different from my own and my actions impact them and like I don't want to hurt other people and like to move through the world more sensitively. But They wouldn't learn that if they didn't make a mistake in the first place. Right. I kind of love that I think we talk about a lot of reality TV and even with the valley and stuff like that, I feel like some things have come up recently where it's like sometimes it takes watching yourself back and as horrible as it is in the moment to have People perceive you. whether or not that's your intention, it is kind of a beautiful way to like grow And it's interesting because they're not seeing our reaction in real time, but they're obviously living in a villa amongst other people and like that conversation with Bia and Melanie and stuff. like in real time, we saw somebody I think grow in that moment. Well, the hard part is and it kind of reminded me of that moment with Melanie because like I and we'll get into obviously that conversation, but like Melanie's reaction just reminded me of any time I've gotten called out by a friend or someone where they like, I didn't want to admit it, but it felt like there was some like some truth you know, and like usually when you have like a, I can't believe that happened and you said that to me like it's usually rooted in like, ' calling me out You're calling me out, you know, And it's it's a very like difficult thing. and then like in the broader schem of things in reali TV, what's difficult is like You know, if If you if people like will ask me like, you know you think if you're edit, your time and you know, there's they're both true. Like on one end when I, you know, if someone were to watch my first couple seasons of the best r, I'm like, That is is not me. you know, like you can't like that's not who I am. but like if I'm being really honest, that Part of who I am, like I've I can beat all those things, you know? And like and there's that hard And when fans start talking about some of those things, it feels inauthentic, but also like I guess that's kind of fair, but like it also it just feels incomplete. you know, where people like don't know, well, yeah, I'm this, but I also have these other sides of me too that you didn't get to see and then you find yourself wanting to like Like I've had a lot of conversations in my head with fans like by myself, you know, trying to explain myself, you know, like explain the nuance of yourself. Yeah, which is very difficult. But it's also like you talk to any reality TV producer. I was talking to a bravo employee and you know, they're talking about all the Bravo characters and they're They're like, Every person I meet all that who they are in person is who I see on the show because they're kind of seeing those glimpses. and if you ask a Reity TV star that they're probably going to say, you, that's just my TV version and they're in a way both true I mean, yeah, like Love Island is film like we said, twenty four hours a day they're like, you know, between ten and sometimes I mean, last season, there were, I think twenty people in the house after Casa So it's like, Yeah crazy. It's like yourre The episodes are about an hour. yesterday was an hour twenty, but you know, you're not going get full context of the person's life But even like, It's so funny. It's Anbody, any civilian. It's like even if you have a really close friend, it's like the way you see them isn't exactly the way they see themselves. R. L what did you make of I guess it was last season where it felt very responsive to the audience. and it felt very like We're saying this on Twitter and then oh, we'd see that. produces a reading reeddit, you know. Well, they literally are. They told me Oh wow. Yeah, they're all over it. Yeah, they're very tuned into what's going on. And if you looked at the app They do the polls even when there aren't dumpings and they were like, is there too much kissing? Like, yes, we're reading the comments. And it's you'll notice there wasn't a lot of kissing yesterday. Right. Yeah. Because it opened up kind of raunchy this season a little bit. It was too much. It was too much. Yeah. we opened up the show and I was saying how the threesome vibe, I'm like, this is so uncomfortable. It was so weird Why couldn't we put two beds in there Three bed Three beds. I mean, like, I get that it's not, you know, but Its just like you just meet these people and then it's it just they're like making out of the bed with each other. and it all just felt so weird. Someone's waiting outside you like he this bench out front.ike let them meet them talk. If it forced. Yeah. Yeah. Well, UK is doing that. like UK is really back to basics and it's like they're really like putting the people in the villa and just sort of seeing what happens It's such a different vibe. So it's like such a slower burn And then in the US, it felt like we got shot out of a cannon this season. But I feel like They did that because the first few episodes can be a little boring because you're like, I don't know and they don't know each other. So there's no conflict that's super interesting. It's conflict about like Oh, I didn't, like you're talking to the same person I like, but I don't even know you. so what do you know me And then I feel like now they're pumping the brakes And now we're getting to see them as like human beings, except for Gabrielle, who we haven't heard. Everyone on Twitter is like is he like doesn't even know this is being done. Yeah. He's just there to fuck. Yeah He's just there to like make out. He's just really mning out.. Well just one thing I didn't like love producer wise is like what was the second episode It almost was given like bachelor date. Like whyy did they leave the Villa It was like and they were like walk, you know, when they had their little like three sus and they went like from and it was like a forced two on ones all of a sudden. and it was like, wait, why Why are we trying to mimic the bachelor? Everyone out there is mimicking Love Island these days. You know, Bachelor in Paradise that revamp is like the a really, really bad version of Love Island. No offense that was an so I saw myself out. I was there for a few seconds. Yeah. But I thought that was just kind of weird and I didn't love because there's something about To your point, like Love Island, there's something about the villa that is nostalgic in a way that we're like we're back, you know, we're in the villa Um, and I was telling this anale, you know what I love about Love Island that makes it soound like there's something about The men bringing the women breakfast that feels so like wholesome and all just like it's like summer camp. Or just like when Sean young love where you just meet someone and you want to make them breakfast in bed and you don't really know them, but you're like it's like house. Yeah. It feels like that. They're playing house. They're playing house. like breakfast Yeah, the breakfast in bed or the cooa puffpss in bed Right It what The expectation is already there that you're gonna to make me breakfast. You're gonna to know how I like my coffee. L that was like one of the first conversations. I forget who it was, but they were like They were asking, what do you like for breakfast? And I was like, that's like I wouldn't expect someone to make me breakfast right away. It almost means more when You don't have the expectation and someone does it, you know? What did you learn, Anna I mean, it's one of those things like there are these sort of like unoicial villa rules where it's like, you know sincere this rule where it's like don't pull someone for a chat if you're in a couple without telling the person, you know, right right. It's like they're just these sort of like unspoken rules that everybody knows, where it's like, don't go to the terrace with somebody if you're in a couple and like you like the person you go to the terrace with. And so one of the unspoken rules, So for the first few seasons of UK, it was such a wild free for all. First season, they were drinking, they were smoking. like people were literally drunk on camera. It was so wild. and it was so misogynistic. Like it was so wild. L people were like They'd be like, well, you give me a hand job. L it was like it was really ugly.. And so like as the show got more popular, I would say like season three to season five, like They were like, okay, first of all they started doing training. so it's like now they train them for like microaggressions. They train them for like misogyny. they train them for ableism. Like prior to filming. Yeah. They're giving a little crash course on how a human department. Yeah. truly. They even train them like But they're like, okay, there are going to be like twelve people in the vlla. there are two brooms. like here's how you're going to handle like the bathroom situation. Be Imagine everyveryone's having their coffee in the morning. Disaster. pile up pile up. So it's like wow. B But also by like once the show was really hitting in the UK and it was a really big show, like People started getting the feedback and they're like, oh, like people respond well when I treat women nicely. So it started being this like positive feedback loop and now it's just like something you have to do. You really do. Yeah. producers say about just like response? I mean, did you ask them about whether they should be so responsive to audiences? Because it was a critique of fans last year that it felt like you're giving us too much power or or you're listening to the wrong people or in a way that it felt it felt a little frustrating. us. And at the same time it was like we wanted Nic and Oleandria, but then it also felt like You forced it upon us at the same time. They're still together So I mean, who else is? It's like, you know, so it's like We wanted it They gave it to us, but they couldn't make Nick and Eandria get together. Nick and Eandria got together because they wanted to get together and they're still together. But also this season, like I was looking at the polls and like people wanted Melanie to go home after her crashout and people did not want Sean to go home And so it's like, taking it They did listen to us when we said last kissing. Yeah please Im kissing. Yeah please Keep Gabriel's tongue in is now. So that when I see that thing, I jump. It's so much. But like they're not They don't just like do what we say. It's like they take it in and then they also adjust how they're producing it. So it's like I think that I was thinking a lot about I think a lot of people were when we saw like Melanie kind of like viraling not in yesterday's episode the day before And it's just like Kuta is a person with a really strong sense of self even if that sense isn't always how others see her. But like she's so certain of who Hooda is that like she can crash out and then she can like crash back in And like with Melanie, she seems to be like a very sensitive person And so like it looked to me prodroducers say this. It's like if somebody is like really not doing well Cast members have said they'll let you hide in the beach hut, which is where you do like the in the moment interviews or they'll, you know, they'll let you stay in bed for a while, or they'll like talk to you or they'll send you to the psych department But like They want people who don't have the resiliency to crash out and crash out and crash out to keep doing that. That's not what they want. So to me, it felt like did what producers do, there's conflict, there's resolution. so it's like they encourage resolution between BEA and Melanie. And I think we got that. And I think that that was a really moving moment. That was really great. Before we actually get into the show, a couple of things I wanted to ask you about before we dive in uh, one A lot of fans have a lot of questions and frustrations with the screening process of cast members. Did you have any conversations with producers about how they cast these people on the show and the challenges they face every year with like we've already had it this season where you know, we've We saw cast photos and then we didn't see cast because things were discovered How do you, you know, I have my reasons why it's so hard to find these things, but I'm curious what you heard from production itself So They start casting months and months before and the final lineup isn't settled until days before they start filming. It goes until the very last minute. and I have this big board And it's with like different series of ten islanders And who do they think could be like a great original lineup? And so You know, now more than one hundred thousand people are applying to the show. Most people who are on the show are not. Most of the people who are on the show are people who have been recruited, they've scouted. Yeah, exactly. Like They can be recommended through another islander A lot of times they're sliding into DMs. Jeremiah is an ad that the show rununner saw, you know, looking incredibly handsome. But yeah, they're found like they go to boat parties. They're like really Especially after last year, they like normal people The casting director told me that like they're like, we just want like someonebody like works at Zephora and happens to be gorgeous.. And they're like they did say they're like we would love they love like regional accents. They're like, we would love a Boston roob. Like that's our dream. We still haven't found him yet. You know, they want people who are not al Islanders always. Like I would say Taylor last season is not like a typical islander. He's still in vet school. He's like, you know, he definitely has a regional accent Um, But yeah, they they to them about like what their dating history is they ask who they're attracted to they ask like who from the previous casts they're attracted to? Everyone says Miguel, all the women.. He's so gorgeous. But yeah, then they also look at who they've actually dated because a lot of times people will say like, oh, I'm open to dating anybody. And like historically that has not gone well. Like because people, you know have biases that maybe they're not even aware of. and so like in early seasons of UK Islanders of color and black islanders were not being picked in the original lineup And so they have to see like, okay, like have you actually dated people like of other races So they do all that and they kind of go up through layers. So it's like casting team, then it's the producers, then it's the executives And all the while they're on this board and then they're going through all these checks they're going to psychological evaluation, there's like a five hundred question test, and then there's a verbal section. Obviously you're getting STD, medical tests, there's a background check That doesn't always catch you know, like if you said something in a story or if there's something on a private account or maybe if you said something on a podcast, like Yeah, it seems like when Islanders get casted basically everyone who's ever known that person goes into their phone I don't even think it's a bunch of people. I was talking about this with Naly. I don't think it's like something happened and someone's like saving this for the day they can ruin someone's life. I think it's just more biggest show in the world is announce the cast. and then people are like, Ohh my God, like I went to high school with that person. and they kind of go through their phone and I think it's like I got this and then and they release it to the. I honestly think it's more like that than people are holding on. they remember they had that video of this. I think it's just like people just like go into their phones and then find these things that, you know. So that makes me wonder Should they try and get casting done a little bit earlier so they can put that out there and then kind of let the audience finish the vetting for them? I think that's what Bachelor started doing a few years back I know they they did that as a reason because they knew they couldn't possibly have access to everyone's phone in the world. Yeah. It helped him out a couple times. Yeah. I mean ' see, but it's yeah, it they do really, I think try really hard. They don't want anybody to have a bad experience. They don't like know there are shows where sometimes they will put people in bad positions because they think it'll be interesting like I remember on Rachel Lindsay season, it's like there was a guy who like had racist views. So it's like to put her in a position like that. like I don't think the Love Island team wants that to happen. What was something that you learned that now watching it. As a fan, you see it a little differently. Oh my gosh, I was convinced. So After Hoodah and Jeremiah broke up, I was like, okay, like Islanders don't want her there. The fans don't want her there. That was what was happening in my mind. That was like so the producers have to figure out a way, like how do we get her out of the villa So they did two votes within the villa, where the islanders were able to eliminate her if they wanted. and they didn't do it either time. And then they opened it up to the audience and there was an audience dumping And we didn't vote to eliminate her And then after that I was like, oh, they like set her up on a redemption arc, which I totally got on board with. I wound up voting for her to twice Like I would not say voting to eliminate her to to keep her to keep her. like I know I'm wild. I don't know. I really believed in it and I was like, oh, so you set her up to do that because you're like, we can't keep her here and have her you know still be problematic. We have to give her Because it could be the greatest redption arc in the history of Love Island if you do it. Right And they were like, no, we never ever hinge the show on one person, even if they're incredibly popular with a group of fans because Any could happen. What if she got eliminated because something came out about her? What if she decided to go home What if like she really was at the bottom of a vote and they just had to dump her. Like it's like you it's an ensemble cast. So if anybody becomes too important, then the show would fall apart if you don't have them anymore. What you What do you think that kind of means with the way they edit the show, right? Because it is this live functioning kind of like organism of when you have someomeone that you could potentially get someone like Melanie, for example, in this like What was it? it was two episodes ago where she had her Crash out G ten. Yeah, giving ten It was awesome U But with something like that of like if they had had the entire season already shot that might have not gotten edited exactly the way that that was going to because they know Melanie iss going to get a like Melanie's one of their heroes Right Yeah they can't map out a whole like arc. Yeahes. and then you get this edit of Melanie because they're going to just go with what is happening in the moment versus this like predisposed assumption of what that character is going to be in their ars already. So it's like It seems uneven sometimes That's the magic of Love Island is that it's so ephemeral and so spontaneous and things change all the time and like you're your allegiances change all the time based on like what they actually do and who they like and what the people they like are doing. And like I don't know, like the permutations, you know It's funny likeike one of the people who they were like, oh, everyone's gonna love, Ace. The producers were like so sure that like Ace was like they thought that Ace and Zach We're going to be like to like the two big stars of the men And like they were like we were really surprised that people wound up really not liking Ace. I'm curious what they thought about that because I to me, Ace just felt like someone who Almost like against everything you said the producers are looking for. He had, I think a million followers coming in. He was just he was already in a creator, you know, and he understood this world. You felt like he understood this world by watching aove Island And that just kind of read as in authentic because it was like you know like he knows how this works and it felt like you know, he we said this. he can was kind of controlling it felt like he was controlling the villa. It felt like he was almost too much power because there was clearly a comfortability that he had. with this environment that you know, is not doesn't make great reality TV because like that's why, you know, producers well, you know, like, you guys aren't actors. We're not paying you to be actors. And like sometimes, you know, producers would criticized for like surprising ters where it's just like, I can't believe you like You know, you put me in this position. they're like, well We didn't tell you because we didn't want you to anticipate it. We wanted to see your authentic reaction, which there's some truth to it and there is that juggling act. So I'm just kind of surprised they thought that knowing that they're always looking for the most authentic people. Not that I'm saying Ace wasn't authentic. he just like He knew too much in a way I'm gonna to go to Bat phrase U So like I think that is who Ace authentically is. And I think if you look at the way he moved, it's like I think he like, and Jeremiah were the closest. He was the closest with can Taylor And like if you were in the villa and you were thinking like, okay, who do I want to stay after this vote? you would pick the people you were closest to and you would try and make that happen. You wouldn't be like, well Like Jeremi deserves it the most or like, oh, well, will people think I'm being manipulated? You know, that's where it starts to get like, o, if you're like double thinking yourself and being like, oh, well, will this come across this way? I don't think Ace was like really thinking about how it would come across. I think he was like This is what I want to happen. And then like when he was encouraging Taylor to stay with Aleandria, it's like Taylor's not going to stay in the villa if he doesn't have a partner. So it's like stick around, maybe as someone you like better will come through didid you learn if anything about world finding out that Ace and Shelley had interacted on social media and had met before and like hating that What did you learn about that? It's a small world. It's like in season five of UK, like, Curtis had DMmed Maura before the show. He was on dancing with the stars Ireland. He was like a dance pro and she was just like Monster Eergy spokesperson in early days for her. but like I don't think it's that crazy that like really hot people who are in proximity might like at the same part I don't think they knew each other.. I really don't. Before we get into the show, one more thing I wanted to ask you about so much conversations about the mental health of cast members and just kind of the aftercaare, so to speak, of what the show does now to what they used to do before Certainly, I remember back in my day, there was Hardly any. I mean, they had a therapist travel and it was like, can we talk to therapists? or' like, No. It wasn't no, it was like later U But yeah, it wasn't very accessible. and the conversations we used to get or the people who would check in on us were just producers back in the day, which was helpful, but there You know, I went on spepecial forces a couple years ago. And even that was like they would, you know, four months later, they would call and check in. I'm like, No fine I'm totally good. But it was I felt even on that show, which is different than Love Island or the Bachelor, there's kind of the mental, you know, just manipulation that you do have to go through U What did you find out and what has changed between what how things used to be done on these shows to what is being done now? Well, the first season, it was just like UK certainly, it was just like A little bit of a free for all. Like they always had a duty of care. The duty of care is something that every show has to protect the wellbe and safety of the participants It can be dependent on the network, or it can be dependent on the production company. L at Netflix, not every Netflix show has the same duty of care. depends on who's making the show. Um So At the beginning, it was just sort of like there was a psych team. there always has been, but you know, they were too busy like getting drunk and like having sex on camera to like avail themselves of the like resources that they had for their mental health. And then really after Um The first two cast members died B suicide, they were like, we have to totally overhaul this And so then it started being like they would really proactively, like if somebody was having a hard time like at all They would be like, why don't you go see this likeite want to take some time, like please, you know, sending them away And then everybody gets eight mandatory sessions after they leave, but you get it longer. And the producers will keep checking in on you after you leave the show. like they'll call them and just be like, how are you doing It's just much more proactive and There haven't been any I mean I feel like we're so lucky that like in the US, like nothing terrible has like happened, but it is a different system. So in the UK forty percent of people who apply are weeded out during the psychological evaluation And I don't know what the numbers are in the US. I didn't share them, but like I wonder if it's that high forty percent seems really high to me, although it seems like that's like seems like a good number. Yeah, I mean, I remember my psych test for the bachel. It was a lot of like How stable are you? You know?, do you ever think about this when this happens. It was a lot of that. So Um I think the goal is to reveal like just how emotional like resilient are you and just like how sensitive you are in these difficult situations. But yeah, it's u the biggest thing I remember thinking is just like you know, producers, they know how the show works and certainly they're good for advice, but one thing the producers can never relate to is what it's like to go out of these get out of these experiences and interact with fans. Producers never were They didn't have fans, they didn't have critics, didn't have social media accounts, and they really couldn't to us about how to kind of immerse ourselves back into the real world in a way that felt relatable Um, and I'm just wondering if they you feel you got a sense that that's different now Well, they include islanders in the duty of care. So like before you go in, you hear from actual islanders about what it's like, they also prepare them for the social media stuff. Like as you know doing the proxy system in the U.S. for social media like while they're in there and giving the accounts over to people They stopped doing that in the UK a few years ago because they're like it it could be harmful for the people who are doing it, especially if it is somebody who's actually just a friend or family member and not like someone you've hired basically. Um But yeah, they they want them to know and they're like, And they tell them, it's like going to be Leah probably you know, in US or like you're not going to be Molly May, like in the UK. It's just like that's not going to happen for most rare. Yeah. Yeah. because people think I think when people go in, they're like Well, like probably nothing will happen, but if something happens, it'll be good. No one's going and being like, Well, thiss could really derail my life in a way that I'm not expecting. Well, it's a nice transition because if you're Seaan, who is the first dumping of Love Island, here's a guy who we now know like left his job Um, He's a police officer and that, you know, that's the story as old as time with cast members. likeike there's this like, you get You know, you get this opportunity to go on the biggest show on TV And, you know, ten years ago and went on reali TV. There was like, oh, I might be I get to be on TV. It's fun. but there was no like playbook. There was no like, oh, I get This is my lottery ticket, you know? And I always say like it's, you know, being in on these reality TV shows, it's a lottery ticket with really great odds, but it's not a guarantee. You could become major celebrity and your next ten years or more are like set. or you could be Ashean where you have all these expectations, you quit your job, you left your job and he's gonna to come out and he's going to want to have all these experiences and it will be a difficult challenge for him to like have people invested in him in a way that like he's going to watch all these other people, people he got to know Their lives are going to change in a way that his probably won't and he's going to have to emotionally deal with that, which is going to be a real struggle. Counterpoint Bala got to be on Beyond the Villa. She was the first one like out of the Villa right? She was. Yeah.. So it's like, you know, there could be more like if you do never know, you could be grocery store Joe. Yeah, it could be I mean dream dared to dream. He probably doesn't even know that the mayor of his Oh yeah. you know, like he probably knows now. When you leave the villa, they like You get like a minute're like this is what's been happening in the world since you've been out of the world. They'll literally tell you like news stuff. like when Rob got out, he was like, they were like President Trump was shot and Love Os number one show and And he was like, okay, and then they're like, here's youriPhone four. And it's like and here's what everyone was saying about you. They give you like like a fast forward version, although Seans would be pretty sure. but yeah think about like Jeremiah, who was there for a very short period of timew weeks something like that. I don't even think even. And like, you know, people, some people were against him and accused, you know, just fans were accusing of love bombing and all that kind of stuff And then He left. he's really made a go of it. and he also like to watch and have perspective, I think to deal with it. Like most He had the opposite experience of Sierra Siera went in. The whole part where everybody loved her was when she was in the villa and she left to just she didn't get to enjoy any of it. She left to just like everyone hating her Jeremiah got to leave and everyone had a lot of like goodwill toward him. and he got to experience that while the show was going on. That's interesting Yeah So what are you feeling about this season? becausecause another thing that's, you know, you know, when these new seasons come out now that we have six being a hit, seven was another hit Now there's this pressure not only with production, but even as fans. It's like, is it going to be as good And I think the challenge we all have as fans is like in the show has is like we fall in love with these characters. and I don't think we realize just how fast it moves. Like for example, like last season, Amaya fan favorite won the show. This time last year, Maya not's not and she's not in the village yet. You know, we don't know so many of the people who are about to come on the show that we're going fall in love with. We always act like, oh, the main cast is the only people we care about. And yet there's there's so much left to unfold this season. And I think that's like right now, that that's why the quick response when you see the Melanie crash out is to like, all right, who does she remind us of? Okay, last season, Hooda was a big crash out person. Okay, Hooda now reminds us. Melanie now reminds us of Hooda. It's like oversimplified in a way. But that all being said, how are you feeling about season eight? as we enter into this season And even though it is early and so much left is left to like B how are you feeling things are kicking off of season A? Ben Thursby Palmer, who is the showrunner and came from the X factor, literally one of the people who like put one direction together L just has like he's just an amazing producer and so calm and steady and authoritative. And islanders have told me it's like I felt like he was looking out for me. And like I really he does seem like a person with like a really good moral compass, like I don't that's not maybe necessarily the first thing youd think you're like, Oh reality teetf preree this or like, But I really think he does, but he also Pick something different every season to focus on And so like every season is different. And so Season six was this like really intimate portrait of like friendriendship, I felt like and unfolded in this very I mean, I hate to say organic way because like of course, the whole time the producers are flicking the dominoes and making things happen. But then season seven was really a spectacle Season eight, the way that they cast it to me feels much more feel I mean, they're all absurdly good looking, you know, but they feel more like normies to me. L I think Bryce has the most followers and it's like one hundred and fifty thousand Most people just have like a ple thousand going in. they're just kind of like normal hot And I think that that is more Teresting. And I feel like, like I said, it's sort of like we started out on a rocket ship because it's like, okay, well, what are we going to do? And now it's just slowed down and we can get to know them. And like we can get to see they open up a little bit and we can get to God willing hear Gabriele talk, you know. Who's been your favorite so far? I mean, I love Ba I you know, I think like I didn't love that she kept saying that she wanted to correct Melanie's behavior I think that when she got the feedback where it's like that was like upsetting to me in the way you delivered it, wasn't the way that I could hear the information. She was like, I hear that. And like I loved hearing her talk about Oh She puts up this front, this kind of tough fr and, you know, it's like athlete like she has a disability and it's like she's gone through a lot. And like I love that she's now being a little bit more vulnerable. Yeah, first episode, she wasn't my favorite, but I really I really enjoy her because I just like how I mean, everyone has their opinion about the Melanie and Bay of it all. But like she seemed like what I appreciate about her, her goals seem to be resolve, you know, and she didn't seem and while Obviously, Melanie reacted the way she did and she didn't wholly appreciate the way Bay handled it It didn't seem like it seem it seem grounded in and trying to like just talk to what, you know, her friend Melanie. And obviously it didn't land the way she had hoped, but it seemed I disliked the way the perspective she was coming from. and she seemed really, I guess, just grounded in energy that I really appreciated. Like you could hear her out. I think I felt that in her conversation with Kenzie and I love Kenzie. I love it Kenzie. She's like, I'm so beach. I was like, She's Barbie. is. just like, I like like she's always doing splits just like Barbie. literally just like B butel like I felt like to have a conversation like that, you have to be in a conversation with somebody you are close in that way with and who like can accept and does want feedback you like that from you. And I don't know, maybe it was just the group setting or whatever, but I think Bay is a really sensible, like kind sensible. I think that's a good one. Yeah. Yeah, but also so funny. was Oh my when she was talking to Seun about country music. She's like I'd rather be deaf than ye funny. I think what's nice about this cast of Love Island this season is that Lash Maybe it was maybe it was like the ace thing of because I was kind I'm more on like Nick side with the Just his personality just read to me as like he knew what he was doing a little bit too much. Just like being aware And I really like with these people that they just seem like Normal They seem like Normans, and that's what I want in Love Island and they It's not as toxic as the first season was up front. Yet. And I think Suzie was talking to me about this earlier. You were saying you didn't like it because it wasn't as toxic. And I was going to tell you that I was like I feel like once we get more into the season, the toxicity is going to come, but it's going to be better because they're normal over burn sl over burnden and it's like real shit is going come out they like see the best in each other. That is a great point. When you have too much of that early on, it feels almost It's chaotic.'re using like therapy speak instead of actually hating each other Or you're just kind of reacting for the sake of reacting, but yes You're right. If the goal is these people will get to know each other, they'll develop these kind of interpersonal relationships. we all know that time slows down to like crazy Ht. And so what feels what feel what is a week feels like months And then the bombshell more bombshells come in. and then they, you know, these these bonds, you know, you have sincere and Melanie day two being like kind of trying to like, grapple with like, We're not closed off, but we are in a connection and what is that? and what are the rules of how do we move? And they don't even know each other, but they're also speaking to each other like, you know, you're hearing sincere say the word we have We're connected. Yeah, like the watching them be able to break it down this way does make it feel very human because it feels like they're trying to figure out what it is along with like the rest of us. And sincere yeah, being like, it's strange because, you know, we say like we're in a couple But also just I just met. Yeah, but then you're trying to explain to other people and then you have to let your couple know, you know, it's Because like think about seeason six, the reason why we were so upset with Cordell. Cordell was because like by the time they went they separated. We were we loved those two together and they felt like they had the makings of something meaneingful and then they broke it apart. But she did during Sticker twist, which was right before Casa, she twisted st So it was one last thing where he's it was like putting a shard of doubt into his heart and he was like, Is she going to twist away? and I'm going to be like alone at Casa waiting for her and she's going to be with a new. So it's like they're always so good at like, but it's great because like think about last season with Hooda and Jeremiah It was like too toxic too fast and everyone's like They should just not. You know, this this is crazy. And with like Cordell and Serena, it was like, You know, it' there's the ups and downs and it's very relatable and it hurts more when those relationships get broken up as opposed to when it's like a Jeremiah or Hudda and you're just like, I remember that relationship. I was eighteen. Yeah. I'm glad we didn't end up together. and like you see like the young love with Jeremiah and Hooda and with Cordell and Serena, you felt like you saw the makings of, you know, like, you know, now and I've talked about before, you know, when we met, you know, there The first nine months was a lot like I don't know, back and forth. I'm very confused. I don't know it's going work. I'm scared, you know, like what are people going to say, Yadda, yada And in that time, we were just developing feelings and it just it changes things. I do want to go back to N Natalally said because you were saying that like sincere and meellly negotiating the terms of their relationship and kind of just like how they were going to approach things I feel like one of the ways that Love Island sneaky makes the relationships develop because like In the real world, you Don't like you're dating somebody, but you're not necessarily articulating to them like, okay, how are we going to move becausecause you can't see each other. So it's sort of like you'reperating independently, usually And then also like They literally make you in the coupling ceremonies articulate why you like the person. And I feel like it's so clarifying to have to think through like, okay, what do I actually like about them? What do they make me feel And so like a lot of these Kids haven't been in therapy before And even just the act of being forced to think about how you really feel and say those words, I feel like is like That really moves things forward. Yeah, I feel like even like I'm And I feel like in relationships, like one of the biggest hurdles to get over with like dating is just like actually just being comfortable with telling a person how you feel. And I think what Love Island does, and it's like, like I'm not someone that's watching Love Island and is like, I have a lot to take away from these people of how I can learn and grow. But watch like you're so right of like they are forced into the situation where like you have to you have to say it to a person's face and like be you know, put in this environment where that's normal and that's comfortable. I imagine that's how you felt too. I mean, like a lot of bachelor people you talk to coming the thing I remember When I was on it for the first time, a lot of my peers and us would say we miss the most was those confessionals because it was therapy And for the first time, you felt like it was a safe space for someone to be like, well, how does that make you feel? And you sat there and you were just like talking to these producers who like aren't therapists, but got good at kind of asking these types of questions and getting you to explore and peel back layers. and honestly like The other side of it like this is going to be this is filmed and they're going to cut it up and who knows what it's going to look like, But when you're doing it and you're sitting it, it felt like it's just a really You missed those moments like coming off the show. you like I remember Chris Sous telling me. He's like, I wish I could just go back and sit in that chair and just like talk to producers because it was like, you know, and I don't I don't know if Chris is in therapy these days, but back in the day twenty fourteen, none of us were doing that. You know? And so it was definitely like this weird I miss those moments for what it gave me and my ability to just like talk about things in ways I've never done before. Yeah. It's really interesting hearing because some people go into the show and they have done therapy, but then some people are resistant to even using the mental health resources that they have during filming. But a lot of people told me I still see my therapist from the show or they'll say, my therapist watched Love Island because they're like, get it. Yeah, you're not going to be able to understand it like until until you see it. I can't possibly articulate to you what I lived through. Right. What did you think of Corbyn. U I felt like his kind of He when he went from Kenzsey to Kata. It felt very just like twenty two He's just kind of like a bombshell? like she's like do you remember our kiss? And he's like, whyy don't you remind me? Like You know, I don't know. I feel like that's what you say after this, right? I don't know. And he used the same some one of the same lines on Kenzie right before. He said like almost the exact same thing about something. And I was like, o, like We can watch this back. They're going to error that you said the same thing to two girls. But who was he talking to was it Keny? I was wondering We the next morning Well because it well they it honestly what it felt like it felt like an aha moment for Corbyn. Yeah as a bombshell, again, you're the bombshell. You hear the bombshells all being like, I'm a bombshell. I'm here to make friend. I'm fuck sh it up, whatever. And no doubt, when the bombshells enter the villa, they have producers being like You know why here? You know, you're hot, you're good looking. They're all going want to make out with you. You know, you have the whole your whole universe is like your universe shrinks. know, I was honestly thinking about this weekend. I was doing some writing and then I was thinking about my time you know, on the second season. And my you know, your world get shrinks. You know, you don't have a phone, you don't have your friends, your friends are producers and your cast members, your cast members are all like they're in survival mode. So you're really relying on these producers and my last three days went from my whole world being like She loves you This is great. you know, you're destined for this. Y whole world is, you know, and then she's telling me stuff. And then and then it went from Yeah, I'm picking someone else and to like your whole world telling you this and then that world changes and you have no access to talk to anyone about it. likeike there's no closure and it's this kind of this crazy bubble that you're living in and it it's just kind of wild. But anyways, I was only bring it up with Corbyn because he was When he was saying, he had this like Yeah, I kind of reverted to my fuck boy ways. I think he said something like that. And it was kind of fascinating to see because you no doubt he got told to do this and he did it. And then some of his cast members of the women called him out and he was like, you know what Maybe I can't move this way. And I think it was almost without blaming the producers kind of acknowledging, all right, I came as at a bombshell, but this is not how I want to be known. I want to slow down. and now that I'm in the villa I don't want to just be the guy who's like making out with everyone And I thought that was kind of an endeuring moment.ike that quick transition from bombshell to like, o, I'm here now. And I've done my job, but now I don't want to just be the guy who's like a womanizer and like kind of just I forget who it was that called it. They specifically said, o, were you just trying to be a b like do what bombshells you. I forget who it was, but it was the next morning and I saw that aha moment too. and I was like, wow, either I thought either he doesn't want to be known as this or He realizes that He didn't in nail the landing. You know what I mean? And he's like, oh, that didn't work. Like I was trying I was coming in so hot and he's like, I'm literally getting called out for this. and he's kind of like, I'm going to have to rework the system that I came in here to like come in and just be this hot like Andreina last year where she came in to do she had to say a word and everybody was like bow down. Yeah, literally. and it's like, oh, he didn't you didn't get that. I mean yeah, it was hot when he came in and sneaky made out with everybody. But then when you had to like open your mouth and talk and get to know people, you just relied on making out and they didn't want to. But it moves so fast, right? It goes from him Literally they're like, makeake out with everyone Yeah. And then he comes in the villa and all the women were just fawning over him. They were just he was sitting on the couch and they were all almost acting as if like we would have an orgy right now Yeah, whichich is obviously not true. Right. But then it's like he almost and that's what's crazy how quick you can like distort your reality in that space where you have this like permission structure to be like, o They all want to hook me. And then you have I I can and it's like ye, it's okay. Like the permission structure for the bachelor, the bachelorette to just make out with people and it's somehow okay in that world Yeah. and you quickly will buy into these rules. and then the cast members like, you know, those aren't the rules. and you he had to like he had to change so quickly about how we moved because of like He went from being the bombshell to like trying to date. and that was not what the wom we're like, you, we're just kind of playing along, but now if you're trying to actually get to know us, no, I don't want to just, you just made out with Kenzie I no, I'm goodood Right. You know, and it's it's fascining how fast the mentality of everyone changes so quickly in that way Well, the thing about Love Island is that like even though the game stays the same the whole time, you're trying to be the most popular couple and win one hundred thousand dollars. The games within the game change constantly. The rule like the rules that the producers are playing, like how they play it, like that's always changing. So like I see why Corbn, not only he's going as a bombshell and they're like, you got to graft, but like The first A few episodes It was only making out. So he thinks he's going on a makeout show before bombshells come in, they watch episodes. So it's like he's like, o Okay, great, everyone's making out all the time. Got it And then he comes in and they're like, we're not on that show anymore. Yeah This' like a new game. We heard the vote, Pe said it was too much. And he's like, wait, you guys were all making up Our lips are ch it'so baby.. Yeah. The games are really confusing. Nally pointed out, I thought it was weird when Sean was like critiquing Kenzy. H saying he was turned off at the moment that Kenzy wouldn't dance on Zach I was like that was a game. it's also like, what do you mean? You're turned off that she doesn't want to dance on a guy who like left her high and dry first night. Why would that turn you off? That shouldn't be like, Ohh wow. It I thought that was so. But it is fascinating how they they have very little information at their disposal and so they're so willing to just at anything. I mean, he did bring it to Kenzy's attention and I was Honestly surprised at her reaction was like, oh, you thought I was a bitch. Like she took that as like, oh, you just thought that I was being mean to him and that's like your friend. and You know, I'm not a bitch. I just didn't want to do that But they were cool after. like she didn't take it. Yeah. Well, Sean's like The things that he had been like he was annoyed Beer, when she went Gabrielle, he was annoyed Kenzie. The sort of like beef that he had kind of just like dissolved into vapor And so it's sort of like we're left with like Well I guess he wants to like make out everyone does. but like I don't know. I think Maybe that's why the end he was because I was a little bit surprised. I thought Bryce might go home. You did? I did just because like He seems to have a lot of insecurity D't. I think that that can sometimes play well in the villa because it's being authentic, but it feels like I't know likeike I'm worried for him. I just hope that this is a good j. I don't think he's He's along for the long haul because it seems like Trinity just like they had a front A friendship bond. Yeah. She had no reasons to save Sean in a couple I thought that she might save Sean because like sometimes they'll keep someone because they'll be like, well, you have more potential connections in the house and maybe to like throw Kenzie a bone. I love Trinity. It' so cute. too. Yeah, she really She was saying that she had the doll face, something. She really does have like the cutest face and demeanor. And she's very like She's flying under the radar, but yet you're still getting glimpses of her which makes you more curious about her. and she seems like she has a ton of like just potential. Like she's just like, she's obviously beautiful She's just kind of like She she's observant. Even the way she pointed out to Bea, like, you know, she wass like, I see both sides, but also When you're not that close with someone, like the way that you came at her, like it felt Like you were coming after her and you weren't coming from a genuine place. Yeah, which I felt was such a good friend skills. J Yeah, just a great view on that whole Yeah. Cindere is somebody great that she can really connect with because I would love to see her actually have a real connection. What are the couples that we actually think might last? I think Sincere and Melanie now because I was like sort of like, oh, it's not going to work. He went for Kita and then Melanie, like obviously like reacted poorly, you know, to the confrontation. But then I thought sincere was kind of done I thought he was a little scared off. but then because the women had the vote What the show does is like sometimes it makes people like And I know I just said that being insecure isn't a good thing. but I think like being inssere sorry, insecure can make you a little bit vulnerable in a way where you're like, ooh, like maybe I should get close to you. and I feel like He was really like nervous about Melanie, and I think that like Both of them had the moment of vulnerability and kind of came back to each other. Well, yeah, it honestly it reminds me of Bachelor in Paradise in that way, right? Because like you don't It's more, it's a power dyn them Right? And so when you are when you're on the gender that has , You know, it's like oh, you know, with Bash and Paradise, he would know the week of.'s like, all right, men get the Roses You know, so All the men know that they're safe that week And it's fascinating just how quickly they get kind of almost drunk with that power. and forgetting that in four days, that's going to shift. And it's just really fascinating. And then that once it shifts, you feel that power dynamic completely change. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking about on Love Island is that like they can change their power dynamics so quickly and until it changes It's it's fascinating how like, comfortable they get knowing that they're safe for now because there's always like this feeling in these shows where I just like I don't want to go ready And so like when they when they get a little bit of breathing room They like they don't stress out about it. And then as soon as it changes, you feel that panic. And with sincere, I think that's true. You don't really know if he's like with Melanie. they've had some good conversations. I thought their last conversation they had was honestly like, Okay. they worked through some stuff. likeike I thought sincere made a lot of sense where it was like You know he he in the best possible gentlest way, he was just like, if you did that, it would just be. you know. And she was like heard received and then they felt like they got on the same page and maybe there's a path forward. but I also don't know if it was like I don't have any other options and I'm not ready to go yet. and it's What's the most challenging part in that environment? they also don't know. Do I really like this person or am I just competitive? Do I really like this person? Do do I not want to go home? And honestly, I don't think They really know the answer. and it's that's what's kind of fascinating. But that space, even just opening the door a crack to like have yourself be vulnerable, I feel like Once it's open, then it can become real. L justust because it starts out as a mechanism of the show doesn't mean that it can't give you the space for a real feeling. And that's kind of the magic of L loveve Island, where it's Well because again, things move so fast. right now, Sincecre and Melanie had a moment where they could say, this upset me. I want to tell you about it. The other person received it. That makes you just feel safe. When you have someone that you can workhit through and they're like kind of like All these people are coming in Not having any friends. not being able to call their person when they're stressed out, to be like, this happened to me. they have none of that So the first thing they're trying to do and that's why you see all these friendships form so fast, is to find those people they can open up to. And so now Melanie and Sincere have a little bit of that foundation. So maybe you also see the panic on Melanie's face after the Ba and where she got up and she was kind of like who was grrambling of where to go to? And she looked at Kata and she's like, Can I just talk to you? L I need someone to talk to? And Kita was like, You dumpked me, girl Yeah. And then she's just kind of like wandering and you could tell when she said, like, give me ten minutes, she was obviously going to the confessional room and it was like She just had no she She knew everywhere would have a camera. She knew everywhere would and you could just see that panic on her face I will say the conversation between Casey and Ia was the most beautiful. the way that he spoke to her, It was so genuine. I hope that that's a conversation she remembers for the rest of her life because it felt so intentional and he just Like you just know that made her feel so special and so good. Yeah. It was so beautiful. The only thing was like I loved the conversation so much and it felt like kind of the theme of this episode was insecurity and how do we respond to that and where's it coming from And I sort of wish that we had seen whatever Anya had said that prompted him to say that because I felt like she must have been expressing something about her. It clearly resonated with her. We saw like the after result when she was crying and kissed him, but I was like, I wonder where this came from. I wonder if it was Melanie choosing him in the chall becausecause you could see that she was like, whoa, like I did not think she would choose Casey and they have And he was like, remember he's like grinding on and she was like, oh, we're grinding now. like is going on, you know. So I feel like maybe it stemmed a little bit from that because he kind of brought up Melanie in the conversation, but her him being like an e like you were the blueprint. like that it was just But that's what will be interesting too going forward because they they're probably the couple that I would say if I had to bet on a couple right now, I would bet on them. But again, it is so early. And here they had this conversation that felt deeply personal to both of them and they connected in a way that goes is far deeper than my type or, you know, whatever. But again, it's so early. And so what like if if either of them you know, and I would say because it was becausecause that was Casey, opening up to Anaya in a way that made her feel seen and that felt that always feel that's like a real special moment in any relationship. And if you related to Anaya in any way you're like, you want to find a guy like Kasey. Yeah. And now if Kasey meets a bombshell and moves, that's going that's never hurt up. All the Kasey and Aniyah fans, that's going to hurt because it felt like This is not we this is more than they they're two beautiful people who think each other are hot and they like had a conversation about like, oh, he makes me laugh, you know, and like it seems rooted in something. super meaningful and it will feel like such a betrayal if one of them goes a different direction. I'm kind of locked in on them now. I It's like it is also it's funny how loveo Island does that of like you see one thing and then suddenly you just you want these people to fall in love forever. and now I'm going be so sad if anything happens. What are the two of them. I feel like a love developing between them. I haven't seen as much of like physical like chemistry Yeah. And so it's like I feel like even if that doesn't develop I think that those two will stay like true blue like best friends in the house, even if it doesn't become romantic. I hope it becomes romantic because I love them. We didn't really see a spark with Serena and Cordell early on. No. they were like I remember. It seemed kind of like a slow b because she was like was that you right B. ban like you just loved listening to every conversation they had. They were so funny. It was like, she was like, you're too young for me. And it's like but I like you so much. That's how I felt with them, I think. Yeah. She was very ambivalent. And like I feel like he kept like Remony was like, I want like like a cheese it B con. she was like, o Yeah, it's like But it's like, I don't know, I feel like I am rooting for them But I remember something that you said about being on the Bachelor where it's like kind of what you w end up doing is like you pick the person you're most attracted to. Yeah. And I feel like that's not Like you said, like that's not always the case in Love Island. sometometimes people are slowberurnn and sometimes there is a friendship foundation Well, Love Island feels more like paradise where like with the bachelor, it's structured again, there are relationships that are built on missing someone because you get honestly very little time. You have a moment, they pull you away And the relationship is this like someone you're just kind of fantasy. You're inputting things that you think they might be And so you really don't know them. on Love Island They are they do get a lot of downtime that we don't get to see. There are like there are moments that have those deep conversations like when you meet someone and you're on the phone for four hours and it's just like you're sharing every intimate detail. You could never do that on the bachelor, like you can do that on Love Island or you could do that on Paradise. So you do have the ability to form much deeper bonds and you can I think you do have the opportunity to get past the Honestly, I think she's just my type and I'm going I'm going to roll the I hope that we get along when we get out of the show. you know, because there's really no other way to get more information No, I think it's true. It's like, it's weird though, because like One of the islanders told me it's like It's like a relationship in reverse because it's like you're living with the person. you're spending all your time with them. You're like constantly committing and recommitting to them and like telling everyone how you feel about them. And like it's like then you get out and then like, maybe' your boyfriend girlfriend. Yeah start dating. It is so wild how so many islanders come off the show and it's like You've been yeah living with somebody so intimate with them and then there's like no title. Even with perfect match, it's kind of like that. When I feel like some of them are like that. You like it's so intimate up up front, like making out through the when they walk through the doors the first night. I'm likes that's so intimate. but but also I'm like maybe it's not actually intimate. Maybe it's forced and it's like I don't know, I've talked to people. islanders who had sex, and I was like, oh, well like when you were dating them, they're like, whoa, whoa whoa, we were dating. I was like I get sex at TV. Maybe' more of like, you know. I mean, I think men are maybe more like this, like statistically, I don't know actually, but like are more likely to be like physically intimate and it's like, oh, whatever doesn't matter. And I think everyone has experiences like that where you're like, man like whatever. But I wonder if it's more so like that you put it in that category of like, this is kind of like just the norm here It doesn't really mean anything love Island rules. Love island rules. Yeah. And then The emotional side comes later And you just kind of you can literally just like leave it all on an island and You don't have to deal with it anymore outside of obviously the millions of people watching inter. Well, then some people don't have sex at all in the show. Like they just like they just like, they're like, I'm not doing it. And then like some of them wind up in really serious relationships. It's like there's no rule book. And like we've seen every permutation of like winner you can find and like every path that a relationship can develop along and we still haven't seen them all. Oh, one thing I want to ask you before want I do want to if you' if you have some time, talk some summer House and some. But the money part of Love Island, it almost seems like why does it exist? It's like becausecause like youre writing your book, how like you can't You're not here for the money you know, in a weird way. So why why why do they have this element that only like seems to take away from what we love about the show. Well, because in the first season of UK, it's like they win fifty thousand pounds And it's like that was all they were going, like maybe if they might find somebody, but that was all they were going to get from the show. There weren't potential wink Yeah, there weren' followers, there weren't brand deals, there wasn't anything at that. It was like you split fifty k. And so they made it like a prisoner's dilemma where one person gets the envelope and they're like, oy, you have the money and now you have to decide whether you split it with your partner or not. And if it had gone It was a very, very fresh couple in season one UK It was the kind of win where it's like the woman really won Her name is Jess. and then the guy she like just gotten together with him like two seconds ago and people were just rooting for her so much that they're like, she's happy. But he'd split the money with her and it wouldn't have been unreasonable if he hadn't. But it just sort of set the tone for the show where. it's like, we don't do that here onn the last season of Australia, They offered them a deal where they're like, okay, if you walk away now right before the finale, you get like a huge chunk of the prize pot And someone did it And so I was wondering, because that's the first time that that's happened. W. And so it's like, I was like, o my gosh, is this gonna to break the show, but I don't think it'll happen in U. S. that someone will yeah I think that would be totally wild because you're throwing away so much more money that's on the table. And now they just kind of keep it because it's like part of the It's like an investment in your future brand deals. like say no to this, hoping that you'll get it on the other side. And if you say yes to it, you're Assumption and probably the right one is like it will cost you so much more to take that money now. Well, also like it's like a nice little nut. Like if you in loveove Island, it's like, I'm you have to have a home that you can like film content in. you know, you're needing a little z, a little glow up. It's like you got like there are expenses that you have when you become like a public figure, especially They could burn so white hot. Like how big even minor islanders from last year, I couldn't even believe how well they're doing It's like so I don't know, it's just like a little like money to get you started. Yeah. Before we let you go in, we also know that you're a very big Bravo fan. And so you watch all the shows like we do where you know, you're watching suummer House, you're watching Rhode Island. I would be remiss if we didn't get to talk to you a little bit about the summer House scandal that obviously has been captivating all of reality TV and certainly Bravo Nation. What is your read on the situation? Are you as captivated as you were, I'm assuming with Scandaval? Like how do you read the situation? And what do you think it makes what's so fascinating to you about it Nothing is as captivating as Scandaval because like the stakes were so high and I was so invested in Ariana and her reaction then we were watching it secretly happen. And so it's like this like I really don't think that, I mean, who knows. I don't think we'll ever have clarity on this timeline. But like it doesn't seem like there was anything necessarily physical going on last summer Although it does seem like obviously she was developing feelings for him. Amanda was developing feelings for Wes at that point I don't know. I love Sierra. I'm so glad she's going to be on Aftersun this season West Really could have just been the number one guy in the group by doing nothing and he just threw it all away? Question. Yes. With her being on aftersun, Does that not interfere with summer house? They cleared it up They have. Yeah. because at first when they announced the afterftersun, it was a lot of speculation o will this interact you know, will it and then they made a statement that it wouldn't I think that it's still being finalized, but like after suun would because I think someomehow start shooting june twentieth. It's like a little bit earlier. Like they just started doing the pre stuff, like not ne exactly Love Island should go into like mid July. Possibly she might like miss a little bit, but don't you kind of love that her like walking in like a queen and like she's now that she and she's tanned and she's getting like sorry' been in Fiji for the last few months, everyone. sorry, West, were you here? Yeah you even care. So much changeed. I look pale. If look sad. What were you in Italy? be in your mouth If Amanda was a friend of yours, Oh my gosh, what would you be saying to her We saying Stay inside. Don't be going to all those West Village bars, girl. And I would be I mean, you know what it's like when you have a friend who's doing something, even if you're like, why are you ruining your life? You can't give someone advice Amanda knows the decision she's making is like quote unquote, bad. Like she's gotten that feedback enough. So I feel like Her life is what it is. like she's like laying in the bed that she made, I think that things are pretty bad right now. I don't know. in terms of like being a reality TV person I don't see how it gets like much worse than this. and I wonder if she and West are going to be returning. I mean, she'll definitely stay on in the city. they announced that they're having a reunion for the first season. so then they have Amanda Like has to do another reunion where basically she will be the center of the conversation. It seems like she hasn't really shown up for the reunion You know, at the end of the day, it just feels like she This is like I'm just gonna guess kind of apologize and it didn't really feel like a sincere apology felt like she was kind of like half checked out and now it's alost like even though it's been obviously very captivating reunion because on the topic, you don't feel like And it's just it's this, I just never thought I said this last week. I never thought you would actually get more Empathy from Tom Sanoval and Reel than you were from West and Amanda I know. Well, I mean, West like when people are like kind of like telling him like, and you're piece of shit and you always do this. he's kind of like at least like nodding awn, but like Amanda posture and her like attitude are kind of baffling to me, but I guess like if you blew up your life like that, like how could like You don't want to think it was all a mistake. I think you want to think like, okay, maybe I like did this the wrong way or whatever, but at least I did it for something worth it. And I mean How long I don't know, Maybe it'll turn out for the best for them, but like, Do you see a long term future for them No one does. Yeah. I don't know. But I think there's this what I think what's so fascinating about it is They know what everyone thinks and they like I think they they' to go much further than they ever would have because they have all of this pressure of like, they're never going to last. they can't last. they better get married,, you know He did a pod I'm guessing, I mean, they're still in Italy and he's as. Yeah and he likes to take the time on his podcast to clear up. what photos mean and what rumors are out there and what, you know He didn't want to do that before all this news broke, but he's happy to do it now. He was like, yeah, everyone's like coming at me for the way he treats like the women in relationships and he he was like, I just keep everything so private in my life. That like What's that supposed to mean? He says on his podcast talking about his reality TV show. C we Yeahah, can we pull up the exact quote that he said, but he was like, I just I'm just so used to keeping everything priv that So private to the women he's dating? like there's multiple. It's interesting because when he's in the house, like he's very like there button doesn't really talk about his feelings that much. I think he When he talks about Sierra, to me, that feels like projection He feels like he wanted to chase Sierra and she was this like conquest and he and more than anything, it seems like he wants to be liked. And so like if she's there being like, I don't like you, I don't you. don't like you Like he's likeid He needs the validation of like, but you do like me a little, right? It's a game. Yeah' all it' he acts like it's all right a game. And then the second he won, he was like on board with the game Like I guess someone else on his podcast, I don't know, producer someone was like, yes, there they said that they saw Amanda paying for likeike a dinner in Italy And he's like Dude that's crazy that they watched her pull out her credit card. He's like, but I bought the flights and the hotels. like And then Sophie's like, it's okay to split things. Y y'all split. But it's just like the way that he's defending all these just rant like we don't care. J tell us what we actually want to know. I I sa this scenai over the weekend and I was kind of just thinking about 'causeuse I've been on this kind of Um saying of like men in twenty twenty six and reality TV and how like In a good way, men are getting therapy in ways that they haven't before. but Men are men will be men type of thing. And you see now men becoming more like using that to their advantage. They're more therapy literate. They consider their feelings in a way that feels like safe for the person talking to, but at the end of the day, it's just kind of manipulative. Craig Well, I think a lot of Bravo men I think the new barometer for ladies out there, specifically when we're watching reality TV and like they were talking about chivalry on loveve Island And the question, I think, you know, as men become more like You know, defining those boundaries of like, well, it's twenty twenty six. Do I have to pay for anything? You know, it's like using an excuse to kind of like show up less in relationships. And I think the question you have to ask yourself is If they were on the Titanic and it was going down. W W your guy or this guy would he acknowledge that women and women and children still go first? I think West would like like we're all going right right room for everybody for everybody. T's going this same I'm first to help him down. I'll get down and I'll just I'll hold his hand. Throw me the children. But I think Brava was filled with a lot of men who would on the right But I will say in this specific instance, Amanda probably makes a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more money than him. She's been on the show for ten years. I don't know in what capacity she was on the very early seasons because she was kind of just like