Announcing the Pregnancy and Future Outlook

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I knew Jess is you guys know Jess will be good at this. I might have some wisdom to share here or there. I feel like you do Yeah Yeah. what's going on in your life? Anything new? Doid you have a love life, these n I knew you were gonna to ask me that U As far as my love life goes, I think I'm still gonna err on the side of Private unt perermanent. Private unt permanent. we love that. Yeah. But other than that, I'm just busy with autumn and I don't know, trying to make the world a better place, I guess. What is before we get into our calls, what is one kind of relationship theme you're seeing out there either you think is good or it annoys you I was actually just talking about this yesterday. I feel like a lot of people get like FOMO. They meet people that they really like and they're interested in, but they feel like, oh, I don't know if I should take this seriously or if I want to settle down because there might just be something better that's going to come along And I really hate that Yeah You know you know what I'm saying? Let's say ye that paralysis of choice. It's knowing that like it' it's thinking that you u The world is your option, so to speak. And it's like, I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to say I hate men, but I feel like it's worse with men Like men will find somebody and they and she'll check every box and they're like, h, but like what if Th better comes along and I'most like I don't know. People I just feel I like Commitment is still an issue for a lot of people, I feel like. Yeah, it it is it is it's not only getting worse, I think. It is getting worse Yeah So I don't know H' impact that. What do you think? What's yours? Like what do you think's like the worst like dating trend you see right now? I don't know. I mean, they're all Kind of like that. I mean You know, interesting, I'm seeing a lot of hope. Loveiolin and Summer House are giving me hope Only because like you know how like like probably the most frustrating diging trend and we see it a lot on AsNC is they We're exclusive, not boyfriend and girlfriend. And I'm always like, what the fuck does that mean? And it doesn't mean anything. And we've listened to the summer House reion and you see this on Love Island because Love Island it's just like Hey, we're closed off, but we're not together. And obviously it's structured to allow the ders to date and kind of create drama. But through these conversations that the Love Islanders are having, it kind of gives it put it puts a light on how crazy those conversations are because when you see people try to have them in real time sound crazy. but that's how we all sound. And look anyone else who's like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah. And then you have the Amanda and West and West being like, well, I wasn't really an exclusive relationship. L we were exclusive, but she wasn't my girlfriend and everyone in the cast is being like, that's what a boyfriend and girlfriend is So I feel like sanity is prevailing a little bit, but every every dator out there are speaking to you your non commommittal aspect of of these these little steps that we have implemented in the dating that make boyfriend and girlfriend feel like a marriage. Yeah, I don't know. I think they're fully sane and they're fully aware. It's just saying we're exclusive, but we're not like putting titles on it. It just relieves them of any like responsibility if they do something that's not in the bounds a relationship. Yeah. Well, it's enough of us. We got some great calls lined up for you and I know you came to listen to those calls. before we get to the calls, I do want to remind you guys, I do have a new substpect that is available out right now and it's very as nick coded. It's very much centered around my thoughts on relationships and feelings now that I am a father of soon to be three girls under three. Obviously a lot of the relationship like questions and conversations I had are now like kind of framed and centered about like what kind of advice am I going to be giving my daughters when they eventually sooner than you know later, which is crazy to say, will like start coming to me for this type of advice. And obviously a lot of the conversations and thoughts and feelings I have are centered around wh we're watching on TV I dropped one last Wednesday. I titled it Stuck basasically kind of centered around like the signals about how to like know that we were really stuck on someone. It's amazing how like how long we stay in relationships that we're literally not even in anymore because where you're constantly obsessed with them, thking the idea that like someone cares less than we feel like they should about an experience that we lived, is something that's very difficult to process and get over and keeps us stuck. I wrote about it. I hope you check it out It's available. justust go to any of our Instagrams If you want to find it, you can find it. So please check it out. I hope that you do I think you'll enjoy it. All right. A you ready for the calls? Yeah, Let's do it Don't forget, Vial Files Plus now offers ad free episodes for all Vial files episodes including As Nick, reality Recap and going deeper plus. If you love As Nick, you will absolutely love our As Nick updates where you get updates of your favorite calls, our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows And our pop culture roundups. where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode. Plus deep dives on our going deeper guest and so much more. All you have to do is go to Valf's plus and you will be lucky, you did How's it going? It's gone good U My name is Hope I am twenty five years old and I want to know if I am curious about my dad or just curious about getting closure Okay, well, tell us more. what's going on Yeah, so my dad recently reached out to me via text message after eleven years of not speaking. Okay And I don't really know what to do about it Okay, give me the layout of like the family dynamics Yeah. Okay, so it's a really long and complicated story, but I'm going to try and make it brief So my mom and dad got divorced and kind of had the classic, like became arch enemies fought all the time. It was very toxic It was always me. dealing with their toxicity, caring their arguments being there for their arguments and just kind of always like having to was really awkward scenarios. Every occasion was a problem. every day I was hearing about all their issues that they were having. and It just became increasingly awkward as I got older to kind of pretend like nothing was happening and nothing was wrong and I would just kind of go about every day And then it kind of all came to a head when I was fourteen years old. And like I said, when I got older, it was hard to kind of ignore it. And so I decided to of confront my dad about all the things that I had heard about what he had done in the past and was kind of currently doing because Again, it was kind of a classic where my mom always overshared everything kind of told me everything that my dad was doing kind of behind the scenes and just a lot about their past and then I kind of got the opposite from my dad, whereas he would tell me nothing and he would not want to talk about it. And every time I'd go and see him, it was just like, nothing was happening. So I decided to kind of confront him, but in a what I thought was a calm way And I just called him And I said that u I wasn't really willing to kind of just like pretend like nothing was happening anymore. and I wanted to know his side of the story because I'd only ever heard my mom's side of the story and I told them that it was just hard to pretend anymore and He basically refused to talk about anything. He said it wasn't my business and that becausecause I was a kid, it wasn't for me to hear which I would genuinely agree with that if felt like that was what he was actually like why he was doing that. I think that He kind of used that excuse to kind of deflect from his bad behavior and not want to talk about him. And so he refused to talk to me And I kind of just said that I wasn't really willing to continue to see him and pretend because all I had to go off of was what my mom was telling me and I wasn't really wanting to have someomeone who was doing the things he was doing or had done things he was doing without taking any accountability in my life. So That was the last conversation that I ever had with them What were some of the alleged allegations that your mom U what wasn't the allegation? So My parents, they met when they were twenty one and It was actually a one nightstand that very immediately became a pregnancy. And I don't think if that never would have happened, they never would have been together because they were just complete opposites. They had a very toxic and abusive relationship there' for their whole time they were together And from what my mom has told me, she said that he was abusive in almost every way that you can think of. He Then like later words, wouldn't pay child support was like harassing her constantly which is making kind of just making her life hell for a long, long time. And my dad also strruggled with drug addiction, alcohol addiction, mental health issues and kind of just All these crazy things that I heard that I finally kind of was old enough to feel like I could address it And then after that, you were fourteen, you confronted your dad. He was like, no, I'm not going to tell you That was the last time he made an attempt to have a relationship with you until recently. No. So he has reached out to me in the past, but it is pretty few and far between I would say every about two years, I get a text from him. And what was the text It's Well, over the years, it's kind of been like very generic things like happappy birthday or like I miss you kind of thing. but The text that he sent me about a month ago, which is the one I'm talking about now, was basically he said H I never know what to say when I do this And u I miss you basically. That was what he said. Okay So when did the like eleven year stretch happened? and was that because you like drew a line and you were like, I don't want to speak to you anymore orr did he just go eleven years without reaching out. Yeah. so It was when I was fourteen to now, but I'm twenty five. So that was the eleven years. And I always kind of kept Well, maybe not later on, but in the beginning, I kept the door kind of open because all I was looking for was him to just talk to me to tell me his side of the story and kind of If these things were true, if they weren't true, and if they weren true, like why or just like tell me that he feels like bad about it or just like I don't know, take any kind of accountability and Yeah, so he He would just like send random text messages, but then I would just be like, well, are you willing to tell the truth? And he still wouldn't I just took that as him, not like kind of just wantinged to brush over it. So the few times he would check in, you tried to be like, are you ready to Tell me now and he would just say no or didn't reply pretty much he would always reply, but it would be yeah, the same thing like These things arent for kids to year kind of things Um But then when I got older and then when he was maybe more willing to talk about it, I was not willing to talk about it because I was angry at him for kind of like holding that boundary for so long What part of you is making you curious enough to write in us and ask us what we think So I don't know. I think I feel like I and old enough now to be a little bit more objective about it. and I feel like for so long I was so emotional about it. Like I was very I was either angry or I was really sad and like even getting a text from him in the past, we kind of like send me into a week's worth of a depressed episode. L I would just get really upset. And now when it happened, like I feel like it's the first time where I'm less emotional and I'm more like logical about it Yeah, exactly like logical. I can kind of take a step back from my feelings and just like think about it and Also I feel like I So many things in my life have changed since then. I'm a different person And a lot of things in my life are just like kind of growing and I feel like I And I don't know, I can think about the situation in a more neutral way now. Then I think the first thing that you might want to ask yourself before responding or moving forward at all is like couldould you have a relationship with him if you never get those answers? Like can you meet him where he is or is that a a hard boundary you're drawing. L in order for us to move forward with our relationship, I need this from you. Like could you have a relationship if he's never willing to talk to you about those things. I don't think so. I think I'm not asking him to you know, make it all disappear and like I know that people can grow, they can change and I'm hoping that's the case for him. because it has been so long. But I just need to see some kind of accountability. like I just need him to acknowledge the mistakes that he's made and just Yeah, I don't know. justust own up to the things he's done. What are the Are there any specific things that are really harder for you like that you want answers on as opposed to mom and dad were never right for each other that they met on a one night stand and quote unquote tried to do the right thing. But What specifically are the things that like to this day to answer just' question, you're like, no, like I need to know. whyy? Like what are the and is it because like Are you trying to figure out whether your dad is even a good person and safe to be around or is it more like Are you sticking to your guns because it was like I've decided I deserve this Therefore, you, you know, I'm not going to I'm not going to give in. Is it like loyalty to your mom? which do you think it's more of I think it's less about me and I think it's more about my mom. Like I am very protective her and like I am very loyal to my mom. and it's not that I wouldn't talk to him because of her. It's that like I From her perspective I've heard all these terrible things that he's done to her and I just can't like in good conscious like be in someone's life who has been like physically, emotionally, financially and sexually abusive to my mom without even acknowledging it. Yeah. so unfortunately I'm Jess also like I feel like this is kind of a trauma bond for us. I have a really I have a similar relationship with my mom, my biological mom, and I actually recently made the decision that I want notothing to do with her. I want to have no relationship with her. And I came to that decision because I was like, this relationship brings me nothing positive. and you really don't have an obligation to somebody just because They're your relative It's the same thing with anybody. like if it's not a relationship or an interaction that's not bringing you any amount of peace, then you You don't have to do it. but onn the flip side of it. Two things can be true unfortunately. This is just my opinion. I think someone could be a horrible partner to someone and have the ability to be a really good parent. I'm curious, How how did you get to that decision? It sounds like you said somewhat recently. Yeah you came to that decision. And that was that after a series of attempts have a relationship. Yeah. So my biological mom, same thing, very sporadic interactions with her. She'd reach out to me every couple of months, every couple years But I realized when she'd reach out, she'd always be asking something for me. It was never like, how are you? If she sent me a happy birthday text, it was usually like on the wrong day, like not even on my birthday. And there was no reciprocity. It was just, she would always either be asking me for money asking me just asking something of me and really not contributing anything to our relationship. And I just had a moment where I was like I had that same feeling every time I'd see her name come in my phone, it was like a pit in my stomach. It's just like I didn't look forward to interactions with her at all. and I was like I actually don't have to do this and it might sound terrible, but I don't feel bad about it. So I would have that conversation with yourself like Can you have a relationship with him outside of what his relationship was with your mom And that's totally fine if you can't But There is that in your mind and I had to ask myself this like, God forbid, something ever happened to him. Are you going to look back thinking, man I wish I would have just heard him out and maybe let go of some of the things I heard and just focused on what kind of, you know dad he was to me versus what kind of partner he was to my mom. Yeah, because that's what it sounds like maybe the biggest difference right now between Jess's experience that she shared and what you're going through right now is The recent attempt. like right now you're basing your decisions off of A memory from when you were fourteen, eleven years ago. And then obviously, that period of your life is very traumatic in no way am I suggesting your mom is not being, you know, it sounds like what going on Yeah with your dad was pretty heavy Um, So not you know I remember my first girlfriend like she didn't talk to her biological father. and she had a really close relationship with her stepfather who was married to her mom I got to know you know, like there are definitely like something like, you know, listen, everyone has their perspective, you know, and and Her mom had the the closer relationship, but like there were just maybe some stories that like there were just two sides to that story And I think sometimes when parents are going through difficult divorces, there's this fear of like who are their kids going to choose. This is all to say, I don't, you know, like again, I'm not trying to plant some seed of datta about what your mom told told you or anything like that, but it's just more to just' point, whatever you decide Maybe you're at a stage in your life mentioning that you're just you're a different person. You're a lot older now. You' you're an adult and you didn't just become an adult. You've You've you're in your mid twenties and maybe confronting this relationship with your father to see if there's a there there makes more sense now than base off the memory of a situation in a person. You know, knowing that like part of it is to protect your mom, partart of it is like that guilt of like would how would my mom feel, you know, and things like that. So maybe it wouldn't hurt to See, like there's definitely listen, there if you if you take them up on this There is definitely the possibility that it's not going to go the way you hope, whatever that hope is that he will prove to be the person you remember. Yeah And I'm sure it was very difficult for you to come to this recent decision with your mom. So there's there's definitely that risk of opening up something only to get hurt again Yeah. you've got to practice some acceptance because that moment or like that acccountability or whatever apology you're waiting on from him might not ever happen And You are ready to face these things, but he might not be in his mind and there's nothing you can do about that Unfortunately So You have to do like whatever is going to bring you the most peace and practice some acceptance like Those are his demons to fight and he might not be ready to face them. Therefore, there's no way he could openly talk about it with you much less like Take accountability. Yeah, I don't know what some of these accusations are. Some of them sound like they could be pretty heavy. It could be a really difficult conversation for him to have that, you know, even to face the truth. Yeah, you know, I don't, you know, there's a lot of layers there as a parent then he's got, you know He's probably got his own guilt or maybe He might not see anything wrong with anything he did at all. And so there's like so many layers to it that Yeah, you just you need to decide whatever iss going to bring you the most peace and if you can have that relationship with him without having that conversation. ye know, and then there's the question what if your dad's willing to open up, right? And again, not knowing the specifics of between your mom and your dad, but he definitely has a different version Like even if he cops to some things, he has a different version. I mean, I don't know, maybe there's a world where he's like, Yeahah, your mom was an absolute saint and I'm an absolute piece of shit It's possible maybe unlikely. And then the question is for the sake of getting your dad open up, do you need him to like Do you even need to hear that his version? Yeah, like ask yourself why you want to know 'ause sometimes some things like, I don't know I've learned that in relationships, like sometimes you ask questions and then you might hear the answer and then you can't unhear them. And just just workshopping this. I don't I'm not saying this is the right answer. I don't know, but kind of to just' point. you know, maybe I don't know if the barometer is Is my dad willing to finally answer my questions? right now. you know is a is a decision is is a as a decision treat to decide what I do next, right I only say that because is there anything else that could give you the the answer of like Is this worth trying to have a relationship with my father so that eventually someday that I will be in a place with my dad where maybe we could have the conversation conversation I hope to have. because like right now you guys are both strangers to each other. There's like no real rapport donon't know what he's going to say I imagine it could be a more productive conversation if there was a world in which you guys slowly you know, like Is there a way you could see this like, you know, what is If you took him up on this and said, let's grab a coffee or something and just kind of come in without an expectation of just being like, who who's the man who's going to show up? And what's he going to say? And you're kind of you could you could You're in the driver's seat that way because he did reach out to you and you could say, honestly, you know, I'm not sure if I should do this. I have a lot of reservations, but You know, obbviously, you are my dad and I I'm sad I didn't have a relationship with you, but I don't I really didn't know what to expect from you And honestly, like what you hope to get from this conversation And I'd be curious. I mean, I don't know, are you curious what what he would say if you presented it that way Yeah, I. And like I totally agree with you guys. I don't I wouldn't like walk in there and start saying like asking the heavy questions. I don't even need to address like every single detail, every single story. It's just the fact that I don't think I've ever heard my dad say he's made a mistake ever in his life. Like he never once taken just even acknowledged of like things that he's done. And so I feel like that's kind of where I struggle is like I I don't need him to be bringing up every single thing and talking about it all, but I just like need something to like address that he feels in some way, like some remorse. That makes sense, but just, you know, remember that You were only fourteen and lot there's not a lot of parents out there who are collllge, you know, I will say like I mean, at Riververs two and a half and she She'll be like, I'm sorry. she'll apologize for things she doesn't need to apologize. And I'm like, no, that was my fault You know, I didn't really think about it. but I want her to know that her parents can apologize. That being said, I do think it's more common than not that parents are like, it's my way or the highway. I about you in this world. Yeah. But that's why practicing some acceptance, like that apology, that accountability it might not ever happen. L I think to not have an expectation like that is probably the easier way to go into it is to not have an expectation so that way you're not automatically disappointed. Just out of curiosity, is there anything despite all your dad's mistakes that you feel it any way to apologize to your dad for or that you even could apologize to your dad Um I don't know, I guess maybe Also being very much an active part of the group, like why we didn't speak for eleven years, like I Hi. initiated that and I kept it going just as much as he did. So I guess like if we could come to a mutual understanding, I would acknowledge That sometimes helps with people, you know, who are stubborn, you know, it can be a very humbling experience to have your kid teach you a lesson. Yeah. U, you know, so maybe You know, there's a possibility there. I think this's like my biggest takeaway without having the experience that Jess has with this Is that like Yeah, I agree with Jess. like, you know, the other day if someone is hurting your overall well being and mental health and you've gi many chances. there's no absolute in terms of keeping people around. Yeah. But you know, you have one father. and and it's one of those you you're basing a lot of your decisions on you being fourteen and it being eleven years from now. So if nothing else, if you're if you're that curious And it sounds like You're not really, you know, he's going to keep checking in Maybe this is an opportunity to just kind of like get new information now as an adult as this new person that you are compared to your fourteen, you may end up coming to the same decision you know but You will probably be more confident about that decision, whatever that decision is Yeah. And I so we had kind of a bit of a back and forth conversation a month ago when he texted me and Like that was the first text conversation we had in a long time And it did end with me saying I was willing to meet with him. Okay And then to talk. And what was the response? I just he said just okay, let me know because my thing was I'll meet with you, but I just need like a little bit more time just to like prepare myself. Okay And he said, okay, no problem. So then I that's just kind of where it left and that was about a month ago. So he did he ask to meet? Yes. Okay. Does he live in the area? Like are he He does Yeah Yeah, we live both in the same city. Ifave you ever you into them? No, no, but I like it can be awkward and I feel like at times It would be nice almost to even just get to a point where we can be not necessarily have a relationship maybe like if even if if that's where it goes, that's where it goes. but even if we can just be cordial because there's been a lot of like avoiding On my part, avoiding him, which I guess is another thing I could acknowledge and maybe apologize for is that I've actively avoided him and his family at like a lot of functions. So what in what is what is his life? Do you know what his life looks like these days? I don't. So I follow like a lot of my family members who are still in contact with him on social media and Like sometimes I'll see like a little like a picture of him somewhere and he's like still very much an active part of my family and I don't see a lot of them a lot, but I do see like I sometimes will see like for example, my granda who's my dad's mom. And she has always been very not supportive of me not talking to him. So there's just a lot of, I think people as well that are like side factors that are influencing kind of my decision, but I'm trying to not But is your dad? do you know if he single still remarried? Does he have kids? Is it like what what is he hanging out the bars? likeike what's he you have any idea So he's remarried. Okay. He was remarried when I even like when I was fourteen, like I knew my stepmom still married to her. Okay and they Like my step momom had a son from a previous marriage as well. So then that was my step brrother. and so that's the only other child in their life as well. And from what I gather like he has a job, like another thing throughout his life, like he struggled with like work and having a career and stuff. but now I think he has a stable career I don't really know what it is, but I think he does That's that's definitely I think, very useful information. Yeah. I mean, you the picture you painted in the memory you have is a man who was obviously not great to your mom, but in addition to that struggled with addiction problems was K of an unreliable like human in society. And it was like kind of a troubled young twenty something year old You know How does he know He is fifty. Yeah, I think it might be worth going and having He's been remarried. He's married to the same person. Yeah, it's giving stability. I mean, it so I assume he's not still an active addiction far as you know Um, as far as I know, no. The thing was is like even when I was actively in contact with him, like was he was stable. He had a stable life. He was working, he was married. So that like hasn't changed And I do give him the benefit of the doubt in the sense that he was a twenty one year old boy when A lot of this went down like until like his mid twenties And so people can change from when they're in their twenties to now fifty. So most of his Most of your mom's stories about his behavior was when he was in his early to mid twenties The storyies about like their past and like when they were together, but the stories like went up all the way until my whole life like because They always dealt with like legal issues child. I guess I'm more speaking about any of the stories that your mom told you or it was more like I can, you know, like there's no like taking sides that was a, you know, you talked about physical and sexual abuse. So I don't I don't want you to I don't want to pry into things that you might not be comfortable sharing Do you feel like your relationship with him or like lack of has affected your relationships in adulthood. definitely like I think just not having a God. like male role model. I think that affected my dating life a little bit, but I do think I've grown past that. but Other than that, I think I've done Well my relationships and my connections. And no doubt, I don't doubt that But would it be fair to say as well as you've dealt with it, you've had to deal with it you know, and so it's just something that you know, you've survived it and you probably have done very well. But I think maybe to Jess's question, is it something that is It does take some energy and it's something you do have to process. And is there a world where There might be some healing from that you don't even realize Right tootally ye I think in one of my texts to him, I even said like I'm kind of just tired of being angry. L I don't want to feel and like hold on to such emotions It kind of has always just been this like little dark cloud in the back. sat there. And so that's kind of where the closure part comes in I like I said, it would be kind of just nice to even address it and just get to a point where we're not ably in conflict, like we're just kind of even just neutral So I think I'm definitely open to going to talk to him, but I think like I kind of just don't No now how to go into it without like having any expectations or then I kind of start jumping to Okay, what happens after that? because then I worry about like other people, like telling people about it or like Why would that be a bad thing? Pople' expectations. Have you have you does your mom know anything about this No, I haven't told her anything because I kind of just figure there's nothing to tell yet. And that is a big element as well as I'm I just know if I told her it would be And I would tell her if I had to, I'm not afraid You don't think she would want you to have a relationship with him No, she does not That's listen, I know people close me who Some version of this, there's some parallels Um, itesside I mean everything's different. So not surprising to hear that your mom wouldn't want that and not to compare the peopleople I know to what you're going through. No doubt, there's going to be just some fear and anxiety that your mom has about you reconnecting and how that's going to affect your relationship And I'm sure your mom is always going to be nervous about his side of the story. Not because she's not telling the truth. it's just like everyone knows there's another side of it. and then I imagine that would be scary. But I guess what I'm saying is Um And I don't think this is going to happen to you But if you do current reconnect with your father, Let's if there's a world where He does open up to you and you're sitting down with someone who really maybe done some work and he seems like a new person. And but you ask him some questions and he kind of like tells his truth and let's say his truth. makes you go, A did I, you know, makes you question anything your mom said I would let that shit go. I think there's that part of your mom that just is afraid of it affecting Um herer relationship with you. And the people I know who have reconnected with their father years later. it's just therere I think that person there was, you know, again, like I think it's just people who go through this, there's a lot of anger. and I don't think they know what to channel that anger And maybe sometimes that anger is just the fact that You know, their childhood wasn't maybe as like mayaybe similar to friends that they had. and in the people I know going through that, they they ended up taking it out on the parent who was the, you know, who raised them and gave almost an unfair amount of grace Yeah to the to that other version because that person could come in and be like You know, that was a different you know, a different life and it's it can get very messy and complicated Yeah, I think the best way to go into it is to manage your own expectations and not be attached to any outcome Like I wouldn't like get your hopes up that y'all are gonna finally have this moment, but I also wouldn't go into it and be pessimistic. like, oh my go, it's gonna to be the same BS as it always is. He's just gonna to keep it surface level. Like I think doing your best to not get attached to an outcome. and above all else, like especially now that you're an adult You can put yourself in your feelings before everyone else's. I think children, like in your position, kind of being stuck in the middle of it, you are so overly conscious everyone else's feelings that you forget like how to or that you even should prioritize yours, That's a learned thing that you're going to have to start doing now And that's the way I would go into it. You've got to do everything in the sense of like, is this best for you, even though it might not be best for your mom because she has her own healing journey, She has her own Her own things she's got to deal with from the situation and your dad too. I would just think about you and not be attached to All the what ifs Yeah, I one hundred percent agree. I That's exactly how I felt like it's always been Everyone else's feelings I've been really conscious about and I try not to like make waves and cause problems. but I feel like I'm always kind of considering other people's feelings, but I I feel like it's subconscious that other people aren't considering mine Be I do think I can go into this conversation like Fairly neutral. I don't want to be accusatory. I don't w to like hash up all the past. I just kind of want to Yeah, like get a feel of where he is now and like kindind of the like I don't know, yeah, Just get to know him M on a very like surface level, but I just kind of worry about Yeah, like backlash of it all and if it' worth. What is the backlash outside of your mom I guess it's not so much of a backlash, but like I know if if I was to go have a conversation with my dad, I think that like My very intrusive grandma, who's my dad's mom, would just like make it a huge thing. I feel like she would I feel like she would find out because he would probably tell her and then she would make it a big thing. And then if I was to say choose not have a relationship after. I think it would just be like this thing and then so it would be like dealing with her, dealing with my mom How do you still deal with R' Gamm? Like how does she have access to you? I go see her. It's very limited because I do set boundaries with her because she doesn't always respect My what I have to say or my reasonings So I' like it wouldn't be like detrimental to my life, but it just would cause me a lot of anxiety and stress. So I'm just worried about that. And well how would you compare it to the anxiety and stress you have on this topic, which I think it it's different. It's like I think the the way I feel about this situation with my dad, it's just kind of like simmered to like a very I don't know, like a very low anxiety and I've dealt with it. It's I can like past it and I kind of like made peace with it and versus I think just like if I was too take that next step. I just am worried it would just yeah open the whole can of wormss of not protecting my peace anymore and then having all these outside influences And yeah so It would just be like the easy route to just decide to not talk to him, but I don't know if I want to take the easy road. Yeah Well, just a couple of things in response to that As far as your mom goes, I feel like there's a good chance you're most likely in control of that relationship and you probably You know, if you want, you know, like, yeah, you're in you're in control, right? Y your mom Your mom's frustrations, fear and anxiety is going to most likely come from a place of fear and then you're in the best position to reassure her that she has nothing to worry about and that you Lo her. I imagine Her fears would come from what how is this going to change O how is this going to change my relationship with her daughter? And if you reassure her and show her that it's not going to change anything then She will learearn to accept it, if nothing else And then as far as grandma' Yeah, as far as grandma's concerned You know, it I wouldn't not At least again, Get new information now that you're an adult H Throw away that opportunity if that's what you want because grandma might be a little obnoxious for a bit I think long term You know, I wouldn't give grandma that much power. Right Okay Yeah, I ree I think I just can yeah, I can imagine exactly how it would go down with my mom like when she finds out about it. And it'll be like the same. L my mom and I we' very close And she's by no means perfect, but I Obviously I'm very loyal and I love her When we do fight, which is not very often, it's very much like the classic mom who has temper tantrums and will say very hurtful things, will ice me out for like a week and then come back and pretend like nothing ever happened and never apologize Well just remember that person was married to your dad, so you knowick, Oh my God. Yes. I'm. I think above all else, you're not responsible for anyone's feelings and that like is gonna have to be something you need to work on. but I can gathered from this whole situation that like your whole life you've had to be overly conscious about the adults feelings in your life and like that you're still without even realizing it, doing that now. and Like you said, how you have boundaries with your grandmother, and I get it. L my daughter is my absolute best friend in the world. And I hope that she would say that I'm hers. but boundaries are okay and you can tell like you can tell her, hey, I don't like that you treat me that way. I don't think we should communicate this way. I think that I want to have a relationship with my dad for me, and that has nothing to do with you, respectfully. And A mom, I'm telling you see I'm sure she's not going to be happy about it because she had her own relationship with your dad, but she should want that for you. So yeah, I think you should work on prioritizing your feelings above your family members and Do what makes you feel good and What makes you happy Yeah, and I have tried to work on that. Like there was a point in my life where I would never have st up to my mom. but in the past like couple of years as I've 've gotten older and we've gone into conflict, like I am able to very calmly like say I like just address the situation and try to like, you know like be kind when she's being unkind I just like there was one time even when we had a conversation and it was a hypothetical conversation about if I was to ever talk to my dad again. and she literally told me that she would not talk to me anymore And she did later retract that. She said that it was a trigger response and that she got very angry right when she heard it and she didn't actually mean it, but I just know that that would kind of play out in real life She would probably get over it long term, but like I said, it's just A lot of um It would be not protecting my peace in the short term. but I know that if I have to do it, I will. Well, that tells me a couple things. Well the first I was to ask you a question. haveave you ever in your life and specifically in your adult life Cught your mom trying to manipulate you Yes I just you know that's information No, and like I, like I said, I love my mom. I'm very loyal to her, but she's not a perfect person. She can be very difficult to be around and just in general in conflict scenarios. Like I said, she kind of has a problem apologizing. like she always does think she's right. and I do think she does have a tendency to exaggerate situations, which is why have always been curious about my dad's side of the story Not saying that she is lying about anything. I'm confident in that, but I just know that there may be some embellishments? Yeah, there's there's no there's no perfect answer. I mean, Again, my my the closest experience I have to your story is that my my first girlfriend and, you know, my first toxic relationship of seven years was like had like a front row seat to something that sounded kind of familiar to what you're going through. And I, you know, as a new dad, I can never I could never imagine what your father was willing to do, which was ultimately like let his fourteen year old daughter set up in just kind of be like, okay, well, I guess if if, you know, you set a boundary and your dad's like, okay, I guess. like You know, other than the reaching out a couple times, it hasn't sound like he really fought to have you in his life, which also must be a challenge to accept. I just like I just remember my first girlfriend's like when she connected with her father and again, not I don't really understand his decision making process, but it was some version of He kind of gave up and I might have thought it was still cowardly or whatever, but like, Dealing with her mom was so difficult and so toxic that it was like you win I give up and I don't know if there's any, you know, version of that. I guess you don't really know the answer because you kind of like as you've gotten older, you've got to know your mom a little bit more. You've seen there's a possibility that maybe like there's You know, gaps or there's just another side of the story And I guess my points like maybe it's just worth it at this point in your life to just get the new information. You may you may come to realize that mom was right, you know I also think it's just really interesting, whether it's bullshit or not Y mom willing to make that threat to you. Oh, I would never talk to you. If nothing else tells me, that she is not scared for you to have a relationship with him in the sense that she's not like listen, I don't want you to stop having you from a father, but he's a dangerous guy. He's going to do this. everyveryone who comes in his path is worse for it. likeike That doesn't seem to be the case because if she was actually worried about that, I don't think she would threaten you with that. she's worried for her and she's worried for how it affects her. which is why she's trying to scare you into not doing that. And I think that's also information Yeah. And my mom has always kind of had a tendency to make things about her. and I kind of just I don't know, let it happen. L she's the kind of mom to like call you up and then just start talking for like forty minutes straight without actually like being like, oh, are you busy? Is your mom remarried She was within They also I think I think I don't know what role stepmom is playing in it but the fact that your dad is remarried is married the same person and he's reaching out Either she's obvious or most likely she knows about it has encouraged him O or he's doing it without a permission. E way either one, it's kind of like The fact that she's in the picture somehow matters to me or something. Like it wasn't like It's not like you hit rock bottom and he's like you're the only one left to reach out No What do you think? Yeah, o my gosh, I just want to give you a hug because I'm like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place because feel like you In a way I have always felt like you had to choose and you need to like stand beside your mom because she's kind of like madeade you accustomed to feeling that way But yeah, I think it's my gosh, there's so much to unpack with your mom. L there is has your mom ever gone to therapy? I know therapy for some people is not the end all be all, but it sounds like her going through this hard time and this divorce and this whole thing with your dad, like you were like her rock, which is like, you know That's a tough spot for a child to be in because then you never grow out of it. It's almost like you feel like more the maternal figure in y'all's relationship Oh yeah. I actually have said that many times where it feels like I'm the mom sometimes I'm kind of the one who has to like deal with the conflict and like resolve it and I'm always the one that asks to go to her And yeah, to answer your question, she has been in a lot of therapy in her life u, she has dealt with a lot of mental health issues as well. And maybe one other thing that might help the context is that so when my parents at twenty one got together and got pregnant, it was with my older brother. and he when he was two years old, passed away. Oh my go. After that happens Like their relationship was already really toxic to begin with, but after that happened, it really darkened both of them. Yeah obbviously and my mom for sure, but in my dad a much way. Like he got very much more into drugs and alcohol and abuse And then she probably saw that as him not being there for her. and that's her interpretation of the story is like he She probably feels like he turned his back on her when this was supposed to be the weight of something they were both supposed to carry. Yeah, there's so many Is there any part of you that subconsciously worries that Meeting up with your dad will shed a light on their relationship that will make you like you don't want to see your mom any differently or you don't want to find out like You know, that like there's another side of the story. think so. I am very aware of who my mom is. I know she's not perfect and I would be open and okay with hearing another version. That's like yeah, like I've always been curious of that Yeah. So I would be I would be okay with that. I'm not too concerned about kind of learning more about makes Well, I think Jessa nailed it where she's I think the path forward is to try if you can to not have Any expectations and maybe just going as curious as possible and see it for what it is which is simply just a second chance at having some kind, any kind of relationship with your dad Yeah. And you're still pretty young and your dad relatively is still pretty young and Who knows how it's going to go? Right But like you know, you have a you could have a whole life left of memories to build with your your dad and your mom and is you've heard, I'm sure you me say on this show when it comes to talking about these these parent child dynamics is like You're really in the drivers seat You know, your parents now in life need you more than you need them. R You can dictate the terms of those relationships So, you know, take advantage of that situation and to J this point, you know, you know, life' short. you just never It sounds if nothing else, if you don't meet up with your dad and take a up on this, it will be hard to imagine a world where you won't even you won't at least wonder if you should have regrets as opposed to the willingness to find out some stuff. and then make a decision as an adult woman. about what kind of relationship you kind of want to have with both of your parents. Be a lot of your information is being based off of the memory of a fourteen year old girl Yeah. and I agree. I do like my brain tells me that I have control of the situation and that I'm an adult and that I can you know set boundaries and do all that I am in the driver's seat, but it's almost like this situation takes me back to like being that fourteen year old. L I feel more like I like, yeah, like I feel like I don't have the control, even though I know I do. So it's hard to kind of shift my brain to that I know I need to work on it. Are you in therapy? No, but I have been trying to look for one one. I have been before actually it was right after I stopped talking to my dad, my mom put me in therapy. Okay, So it's been like ten years though, right Yeah it's been a long time. Yeah, give it a shot. Yeah. know, I might it might be helpful while you go through this. especially in just working through like your feeling of like feeling responsible for their feelings. I think if you had some clarity and a better roadmap with that, it would help you navigate both relationships a little bit easier because you're still operating in the mindset of like the child that's in the middle of it and kids are so resilient, like That's why they call it childhood trauma that we're dealing with now and as adults because as children, we're just like in survival mode and like don't know what's going on and then it comes back as adults. And yeah, like I said, I know therapy is not the end allll be all for everybody, but I think it could help you bothoth relationships. some in the end noll be all, but it is helpful. Yeah U I would Make takeake your time finding the right therapist You don't you can You can fire him Remember that Make sure they're apparent Yeah I definitely will. I've like I said, I've been looking. I just haven' been like one y but I feel like yeah, I have a lot of emotions, I have a lot of thoughts. I finding therapist is a little bit like dating. Sometimes you just have to like go on the date, see how you feel you're done, try it out, maybe maybe go on a second date just for shits and giggles. You this might not be a forever relationship, but like ye You are literally opening up and being incredibly vulnerable to someone They are a professional. you're paying the money, but like it's you got to feel comfortable And it has to feel like some, you know, it has to not every therapist is the same. not every perfect therapist is perfect for every person, but This will be something you're going to want to bounce off of someone That's not your family. like not a non j. Yeah Like I I definitely want you to unpack After you go and have this lunch with your dad and definitely pack again if you have the conversation with your mom about it, but like third party.. like not a family member Okay, I will work on that. I will secure one I guess my next question is like So I think I've come to terms with the fact that I will Just go and have a conversation with him U What do you think How do I go about starting that conversation. likeike what do you think I should focus more on talking about just in that first interaction shouldhould it be in person or over the phone I think in person would be good. If you can handle it, I would always encourage the the important ones are always better in person Yeah, just to start by just catching up. I mean If you want, you could just read the room and follow his lead. but I would just start, I mean, you guys have a lot of ground to cover. and just like get to know each other at this in your life. He reached out so you can kind of be like, well, I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous. I don't know what to say I didn't come in with expectations, so, you know Like I'm here now what What do you want to catch up on? Yeah, you know? I think the trick is is to not U Like Jess said, not have expectations and just Its it's a, you know, the same like data analogy. It's kind of like just See how it goes. This is you are exploring a relationship to see if you want it to continue or if it's something it's worth investing in, which is in a lot of ways similar to dating. and not trying to compare dating and romantic with your dad. But relationships are relationships. you're either you're either investing in them or you're not And the ones you're willing to invest in are the ones where people usually stick around Yeah So I think it's this more. Yeahah, I want to if I'm you, I want to know who your dad is today I would be somewhat curious as to like what made him want to reach out. Because it is a lot more important than man he is today than the man he was twenty years ago. R. Yeah. And I think One thing that kind of worries me is that he's always been Nice me like to my face. and the problem was always what he was doing not to me and to other people and like things that he kind of deflected So I just like I have kind of I think what would happen is I would go and it would be nice and he would be nice. and Yeah, but I just like the other people wantan to just like acknowledge all Oh, just like my mom kind of it, honestly. justust like what he's done in the past Yeah. I just I don't want to like address all the heavy topics right off the bat, but I'm also like I feel like it would be a nice conversation and then I don't know, I't know if that's enough Yeah, but it just feels like that's coming from a place of wanting knowing that you're going to have to confront your mom about this and wanting to be able to tell her that you had her back I don't know if that's like the most important aspect of this conversation. likeike just, this is about you and your relationship with your dad And that's kind of it. Yeah And you and your mom are to get through this. You you have way more power than your mom than you realize and not that you should take advantage of it, but like she needs you more than you need her. I mean, you name each other, but like she's not going, she's not going anywhere. I feel like I can safely say that Not without a fight, that's for sure Um And she might put up a little bit of a fight in a temper tantrum, but she's going to be okay. All you have to keep telling your mom is that you love her and you're not going anywhere you know, and and yeah You just have to reinforce that. And I don't think you need to defend your choices to your mom. I don't think you need to But don't worry, I told him he was a piece of shit or I had your back or I don't think you do any of that. Remember, you're not responsible for her feeling. And she's your mom. She's going instinctively love you. And like Nick said, she's not going anywhere But if she starts doing the thing like you said that she does as far as like throwing temper tantrum or trying to guilt trip you into anything, you can literally treat it like a kid is throwing a tantrum and just like, don't p attention to it and be like, o, well, this is not a productive conversation. I'll come back to it when You're not communicating with me like that And she might be like, you know, that might be drawing to her. That's not how you typically handle it, but You can't communicate with somebody like that. So Yeah. But again, we're worried about so many things that haven't happened yet. So againg, not being attached to an outcome and Trying to manage the expectations a little bit, I think is going to be Y best friend here Yeah, ye. And I think I know that deep down. just makes me a little nervous, definitely to actually Yeah. Definitely explore therapy. and enncourage yourself to not just work on it because you know, whether it's better help, mean you could be talking to a therapist tomorrow or you find it a different way. But like just be intentional about it because it's really easy to put off And I just think like, you know, like all of us, it's also a bit of a trope these days when childhood trauma and things like that. But there is a lot of truth to the things that happen to us as kids really play out to us as an adult in ways that we don't even comprehend or realize Um And it might be just super helpful to understand how you show up in all your relationships and how much your childhood is affecting you in ways that you don't even realize. And that and no way takes away from how resilient you have been and how you've been able to do what you've done on your own, but it doesn't mean you couldn't be better with a little bit of help No, I agree Sorry, when do you think at what point do you think I should tell my mom about this. If I'm you And I don't think listen, I don't think it really matters and I don't think that's the key. My advice would be like just take advantage of the power you have and like, you know, I don't, it's like, you know, I don't know if you're watching Love Island, but I am and and last night, you know, since he or me not with a girl and then he was she was like, you know, And he chose the kind of like the, you know, like'll I'll tell her if she asks kind of like cowardly. responds The loveve Island reference is sending me my. I would I would I would take control of the situation. I would just tell her Even before you go, I'm going to go do this, mama, you know? No, I disagree. I disagree because that's going to give you way more anxiety about it. It that's that's taking making an already kind of difficult situation even more difficult because you never know like she could like throw a haail Mary and plant a bunch of crazy seeds in your head that aren't already there just to prevent you from going. I definitely would not tell her beforehand I think that I feel like I was kind of on that boat. like I think I I didn't really want to tell her until there was something to tell. and I don't think that going just have an initial conversation conversation is like something to tell. No, I think definitely don't tell her beforehand. And then after the after you go and have the conversation with your dad I think I don't know, just read the room. And next time you go and I would tell your mom in person if you do decide to tell her D deffinitely don't make it over the phone or like over text kind of thing. likeike, o my gosh, guuess what I just did today? I think While you guys are having a girl's Day or something, be like, listen This already happened, there's nothing we can do about it And I met up with my dad and this is how it went. And if it starts going left, be like, listen I feel good about it or if you didn't feel good about it, then you can be like, hey, I gave it a chance and I don't like him, I'm never gonna to see him again. I don't know How This tower before it feels like you're hiding it Okay, that's good. I can agree with that You know Okay, that makes sense. Like you're going out of your way to like you have to like lie to not tell her in a weird way.. Do it before that Okay. 'cause there's no good unless she calls you while you're on the way there. and she's like, Hey girl, what are you doing still don't tell her them before you go because I feel like then you I definitely agree with Jess in the sense if you think she could stop you, don't do it. I don't think she could stop me. I just yeah, I do think though that like Jess has a point. I think she would just say a lot of things that would mean I think Jess makes a really great point. J just do it before you have to before it feel like you're hiding it from. becausecause you don't have to apologize for this choice. You're not doing anything. And I just don't want you to feel like, you know what I'm saying? It's like the It's like you don't tell someone because I know you're going to be mad at me. so I told you the lie because like the thing. And it's just like I have a really good feeling about it though. I think you're going to be really glad that you went One way or another, something good is going to come from it. Even if you and your dad don't like blossom into this relationship you've always wanted to have with them, I think Somet Yeah you could be three years out from something like that. J just give J just no no expectations. This is step one of who knows Yeah, I agree. I think that if I go, it'll be for me and it willll be to kind of kind of confront this little ye, storm cloud that's always been in my brain and just like kind of I' run it and hopefully Yeah. I'll give you one lastess what if because I feel like that's all of the other clouds in your head are all these what ifs about with him with your mom about the relationship with them togetheret like this will be just one less what if. Thats that's the positive thing you can take into it. It's like, hey, I've wondered about it, I tried it and that's it Yeah. No, I agree Well good luck. Let us know. Thank you guys. Yeah Well, our pleasure.. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I'm dying for an update whenever you decide. Me too And just remember, there's no there's no good time to deliver bad news, you know It's not going to be bad. No, but just for mom, it's going to be bad news Yeah Yeah just when you're trying to figure out after you meet up with thatad, when I should tell her, just remember there's just no good time to deliver bad news and that will be before the time where it feels like you're hiding it from her somewhere in between them Your home is something you live with every single day. You want your home to look great, but also you want to feel Built to last And that's why we love article. We've talked about article. He I've talked about article since I started this podcast is because they make great furniture. Everything they do is fantastic, wonderfully made, really durable, stylish and wonderful. Their mid century modern coastal and scandy designs are designed to inspire, make any room in your house look fantastic. We've talked so much about the article furniture have We have some amazing outdoor pieces. We have an arrticle couch as well. 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Okay, goodood luck How's it going Hey, my name is Macy and I am thirty years old and I am here to kind of break down a situation that I'm having with my mom She is dating my brother's best friend. Okay Oh It's a fun line Yeah. Well for us, like maybe not for you giveive us the lay of the land. Well, first of all, is How is your brother? Yeah, so this is where it gets festive. So my brother just turned twenty six And his friend is twenty even crazier 'Ccauseuse was, you know, it was like, oh, my older brother for the two. Oh wow So your younger brother's friend who's younger than your brother is dating your mom Yeah, so I can't say that one hundred percent that is what's happening. I can't get her to I hate to say like admit, but basically admit to it. Kind of to preface a lot of this, my father passed away in twenty twenty four And so he had a farm that he basically had a farmh. And so essentially, my brother had him become the friend become the farmh at this location And so when my father had his cancer, he was my dad's assistant, so he would drive him to all of his cancer treatments and everything. And after he passed away, he entally just kind of worked his way in and was a remake of my dad for my And so they seem to have this really close connection that I couldn't really like pick up. And I also didn't want to be like the daughter that had like you know, extreme red flags on the situation and make judgment calls on something that was too early because it was about like six months after my dad passed away I tried to ask my brother about it. he's like, no, they're trauma bonded. it's fine. But I'm pretty good on reading people. And at that time, I was like, yeah, something's happening. And so over time I tried to like confront my mom about a situation and That involved the farmhand best friend guy and he Like yeah, it's very confusing. It's a too long process two year process of everything kind of being broken down. Ultimately, my mom has decided that She is wanting to buy a piece of property with the best friend and I am not supposed to know about it, but she told my brother about it And so that's kind of where it started to get a little weird for me. So I couldn't figure out how I want to like move forward with my mom after this process. So that's kind of what I'm here for. What are you specifically hoping we can help you out with Yeah, so I'm trying to figure out how to move forward with my mom because I feel like I've tried to talk to her about this problem multiple times My mom is very young, she's fifty five. I'm not naive to the fact that she could find someone else She's a beautiful woman. like she could find someone else and fall in love again. But I feel like she's lied about this process time and time again of just whatever relationship that she's having and she's hiding it quite a bit. And so It seems like she's wanting to choose spending time with him over spending time with her kids And so that's where it becomes difficult for me. Okay. Um Would you be willing to accept your mom's choices, whatever they are so that guys can have the relationship that you want with her Yeah. I mean, I think that Anyone would have been in her corner with the situation. It would have been me I understand that love kind of comes in weird ways. So I just I Like I said, I know that she could have fallen in love and they could move forward with each other. but The guy that she's with seems to kind of have a little bit more of like a mal intent than a good intent. and so that is what is making it hard for me to say that I like trust the situation and her decisions within it. What do you think she's atisk what's at risk for your mom? I mean, Everything to be honest U my dad had a business and so she has gone through the transfer process for my brother for him to receive the business He is driving my dad's truck, He is taking over like everything. and we also have dementia in our family So it wouldn't surprise me if at some point he essentially would just transfer everything to his name once she starts for getting everything just to get what he wants. So Your mom's only fifty five, but like But there's no sign that your mom's has or is going to get dementia other than it runs in the family I mean, after my dad passed away, I wouldn't say that she didn't show signs of forgetting things, but I tried to give her a little bit of a grace period considering that You know, my dad passed away pretty tragically in a short amount of time. So yeah, I mean my grandmother started having signs at like sixty five. And what conversations have you had with mom so far? How have you approached it? After my dad passed away, I went over to the house around Valentine's Day to like try and just be nice and give her a gift and whatnot. And so I walked through the house and I heard the shower running and them talking. Luckily it was only talking. but I did hear them in the shower together And I was like, hey So I went by the house the other day and this happened you know, what's going on with your relationship with him? And she essentially said that she wasn't there She said that she must have been in the basement. She's like, arere you sure my car was there? L one hundred percent, there was no hiding it. L they were together in the shower talking. And so she just has continued to lie about it So after that, my brother to her about the situation for whatever relationship she's having and that he doesn't want to be involved with him anymore And she denied it. and said that he's been really special to her and that he has just continued to be there for her where we haven't been But she kind of pushed us all away in the middle of that too So Any other So later on in that situation, I tried to like just move forward and then she basically blamed me for the reason for why we haven't had a conversation is because I was forcing my brother to have a conversation when he wasn't ready. So again, her just pushing it off, not wanting to have a conversation about who he is. He's living at the house with her. She is pretty much hiding that all under wraps. She won't even bring him up around but we all know that he's I mean, she's, I don't know. like she's obviously still grieving and like everybody grieves differently. Like I can't imagine like my daughter him frning me about something like this. I really I don't even know how I would hand. I would probably Yeah, you'd probably lie. I would probably lie. Yeahah, because I mean, it's I totally get your concern on so many levels. like number one, like you're also grieving your dad and like you feel like your mom should be going about it completely differently. And this is like your brother's friend and he's like technically younger than your brother. L I totally hear you and agree with you on everything. but like as a mom in the situation, like I don't know if I would be handling it any differently. That's why I ask like what's at risk for your mom and I hate that you I mean, Answer to everything Maybe it's not everything I know youre you obviously sounds like you don't trust this guy and you're worried about. It sounds like you're worried about his ability to steal from your family and your mom I wonder how like how realistic is that from happening anytime soon And I guess but to that point Like like Jess said, I mean, it was just like she was definitely going to lie. She does I mean, it must be very awkward to talk to any of your kids about this. She probably feels foolish or embarrassed. and she's also probably not lying that he's been special to her He's helped her grieve and yada yada yada. It's just I wonder if right now Getting your mom to admit the truth is not the goal. because like she doesn't want to tell you the truth, but like it doesn't help any of you by allowing your mom through her embarrassment of her choices to distance herself from you guys is such a messy situation. In the short term, I would just choose peace and I would not even peace. I would choose to like make to fight to stay close with your mom And if that means getting to the bottom of it right away Maybe that's better in the long run. Yeah, no, I one hundred percent agree. I think that For me, I tried really hard to to do exactly what she just said, just like trying to continue to have a relationship with my mom and wanting to be there for her in case something happens. That was actually like a huge drive for a really long time because my brother was feeling very opposite to me. He was wanting to essentially cut off ties and not really do anything, but everything for him is a little bit more of a stronger stake issue for the business and whatnot where for me like I don't really have anything to lose. It's either I have a relationship with her or I don't have a relationship with her. And it wasn't until she decided that she wanted to buy this piece of property and wanted to close on the piece of property before telling me about it and then telling my brother that I needed to not know this information is where it started to feel a little unsettling for me My mom could buy whatever piece of property that she wanted. This is all very driven by the guy that she's with. And then I also received a letter from him last week as well essentially apologizing for hurting me but he didn't really apologize for anything specific. So it's a little sketch to also add in he was previously married And so we are close with the ex wife and I reached out to her to see if she received a letter because I felt like, okay, if you sent a letter to my brother and I and the ex wife, maybe he is really trying to turn things around. And she did not receive a letter. She said that this was very much his Mo that he would essentially write letters to apologize for X, Y and Z. He's like just very manipulating. So this isn't out of his character of attempting to write a letter and then change anything neither. I think with your mom for now as hard as it might be, you might just have to meet her where she is. I feel like this is going pass I mean, she's a fifty five year old woman and she's lived a lot of life. I think as she continues to work through the grieving process or maybe when she starts to maybe kind of see the situation for what it is, I think that she'll move on from it. But I think that this is like Unfortunately, like a form of grieving for her Has she like I keep asking like has she gone to therapy? Like what other ways has she been grieving that you have seen? Yeah, so that's a really good question. So she has been going to therapy since my dad passed U Now whether she is talking about any of this is a separate situation U So that's about it. She She doesn't talk about my dad other than getting rid of his veins which I think is a normal process, by the way. But I just think that She I actually don't think that she's grieved at all. Like I think her grieving is avoidance. That's what I was thinking. But if she's in therapy, I think maybe like like Nick said, now is probably not the time to like and maybe try and get an explanation or try and talk her out of it because Eespecially because you gave the context about his letter, like He didn't apologize because I don't think that he or her thinks that they're doing anything wrong right now. Like he probably does have some ulterior motives, but I don't think you're going to be the one that's going to be able to show them that. maybe ask if like you can go to one of her therapy sessions with her and like not make it like an intervention type thing, but just be like, hey, I just had some things I wanted to talk about and having like the third party neutral person with you guys there might really be helpful and she can lead you guys into She could probably lead your mom into like maybe starting a healthier way of grieving because I think this is her form of grieving and she doesn't realize it's kind of like Not detrimental, but like it' it's not It's not giving her like the healing and like the grief journey that She thinks that it is. I don't know. Is that does that make sense Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. I was just thinking of like, wonder how mom would receive that. It made me want to ask the question, what was the last interaction you had with your mom? I think that every interaction with my mom is fake Yeah, but what was the last interaction you had with your mind Um I saw her on Sunday for her birthday and She is just very much so I just think she's faking her happiness in front of us. Was he there? the other guy Oh, no, no. we have I don't if I'm around him, I don't make eye contact with him, I don't look at him like I' I'm the only one that will occasionally be around him but I'm not like having full on interactions with him at all. And my brother won't my brother hasn't seen him in two years Wait so this has been how long has been going on for This has been going on for two years You said six months after your dad passed is when you guys found out Yeah. ye. So I agree with not confronting her about it because I too I tried to like you know, say something and she shut it down. and I tried to like make my peace with her about just like, look, I just want to be there for you and I just want to be supportive. L I know that you can find someone in the future. like I just want to know how I can be there for you Ironically at the time when I was talking to her about this, she was sick and like actually couldn't speak. And so she was like, I just want to talk about this at a time that I can talk and I was like, one hundred percent, never came back to the conversation for it. And since then, I just decided that it wasn't worthy of bringing back up because she obviously didn't want to talk about it.. So I agree. I think that confronting her about it over and over again isn't going to get me anywhere, which is why I think the question continues to come back on But what type of relationship am I wanting with my mom because she's wanting to choose him over being with me or even like my children instead of like it just seems like he's the answer for her, but we are. Which is confusing. I think he's more of a distraction for her U especially since you feel like she's kind of avoided the whole grieving process He's I mean, he's a twenty five year old guy. So I mean, like he's He's I feel like probably a distraction for her right now. And I'm sure she's not looking at it as an either or situation. like She loves her children and her grandchildren. I just think that She's just kind of living in an alternate reality right now What's this property that they're buying together So he likes to hunt and it's a completely wooded property that has about like a two acre spot that's available for them to build The way that my brother explained it all to me is that it Her selling point was that it's very secluded and private and no one can see. That was the way that it was sold to them And how does your brother know about it because my mom decided to tell him about it due to the we're from a very small area. so with peopleeople who like the realtors and everything, she was concerned that someone was going to tell And so she told him before me So I still don't even know about it How did she tell him? What is it? Well, just that I guess she has decided that she wanted to buy this piece of property, that it's a good deal, that again, it's the secluded location. She wanted a new start whichich is fine. But the part that she's buying it with this other guy. And like is his name on it? Is he contributing money? Like do you know any of that That's beyond us unfortunately. Because if your mom is just like buying a piece of property quote unquote with him, but like legally she's buying it and she's just graciously allowing him to enjoy it while they date it, then it's Less of a concern If like he is someomehow's name is out if he's like half the owner. Yeah, what does he do for a living Wh's your mom? Oh is he still the Well, that was a problem for a really long time. It's like a Jerry Seinfld episode, where he's like paying his a housekeeper, and then he starts dating his housekeeper and he's just like, what did I pay for? Essentially, yeah. I mean so once my brother started to go through the process of working within the business, more and more people were starting to question you know, what are we paying him for? No, he's not here anymore. We don't see him, like he would float around to the different locations. So the more that people questioned, the more that it was kind of encouraged that he should put his two weeks in So he is actually going to school to become a nurse And so that's what he's doing. That is his new path is the nursing degree. So he doesn't have a job like? That to me is like that's a big unknown. like this Because if she is making a financial decision like this and giving him have this property Um That's the bigger like of a fuck. do we need to do some about it? If it's if that's not the case, then then hopefully she's just like then she does have like a fresh start at a new space. mayaybe that's something if you choose to like Maybe go to therapy with her or if you're seeing a therapist, invite her to come with you. I think bringing things like that up in a more neutral environment, like more likely to get like a more productive outcome and be like, listen It's your life We don't have to talk about your relationship with him. but How do you think your mom would receive you asking to go to therapy with her Yeah, I don't know I've actually contemplated that quite a bit because I feel like anytim that like whatever connection she has with this guy is brought up, that she kind of shuts down So I felt like again, having kind of a third party person there would maybe help her sounds awful, but like force her to actually listen I think that she doesn't want to hear any of our opinions in regards to it And I think that she thinks that our relationships are totally fine, but they're not. We're struggling with this. I think that we all realize that my dad was kind of the linchpin for us, that he was the one that would literally just show everything that he could to show H love for us and now we don't have that So my mom is not very strong at expressing love or like getting in touch with us or like I haven't heard my mom say that she loves me and probably every bit of a year. So that's also a secondary problem for me is like if I have to look at family and as I'm raising my own I'm going, what does that mean to me? And does this person fit in this family that I would like to create for myself And to be brutally honest, she doesn't. Like she isn't showing the type of love that I want She's not there for me. Like if it wasn't for the fact that this is kind of like our birthday month Like we wouldn't be hearing So yeah, but she's just not there I would be careful about like using love as like a negotiating T our tactic. I mean You have your family It's your family, you obviously are in control of who has access to your family Our extended family our parents or sisters or brothers, you know, they kind of show up at different in different ways or at different times. But I wouldd be careful of being like, mom's not moving the way I want. so I want to like or whatever. I think you, to J just's point, your mom's just kind of clearly going through something, and she's struggling I mean, you obviously don't like the situation, but is there a way if you haven't already to communicate to your mom Listen don't even I really don't care. do know you and Eric And I don't care. I just what I want is a relationship with you And I don't want you to feel like you have to hide it. because your mom just doesn't want to be judged, which is why she doesn't want to talk about it and why she doesn't want her opinion because she just knows You're going to say something she doesn't want to hear So how do you communicate to your mom in the short term That like Listen, like do it you're an adult, Do what you want. I don't even I don't have to like your choices. for you to do do what you want and try to like Have that conversation first so that your mom can maybe let you in. Now that might might open up the door for your mom to tell you stories that you're not interested in hearing because like, oh, she's cool with it now. But that might be a door or a window for you to be like you can date them all you want, but like just don't do things you wouldn't want me to do with like someone, you know, and that like these big financial decisions or whatever or giving him Yeah, I think that's worth talking about like in a non attacking, non confrontational way. like Nick said, approach it. Hey, this is your life I don't have to agree with it But your financial decisions and how you're setting up your life for your future and how it could affect like My brother and I kind of is my business So it's tricky I don't because you don't want you don't want your mom to You have to be so careful with your words because like the idea that you're going to tell your mom that he's using you is going to make her feel less than Yeah, because it's obvious she's already dealing with some like shame and guilt and embarrassment, which is why she kind of shuts you guys out. It's not because she doesn't love you. That's not at all why she's doing the things that she is. Legally does who has like this family business? Is it your mom? Was she the sole inheritor of that or Yeah, so it all went to her after my dad passed. and then now that my brother is practicing, he is having a three year process of it transferring over to him Okay So is there anything come in the way of Stopping that I guess her not signing it because they have to resign a contract every year for that to continue to be moved. Is your brother worried that like she's going to give it to the other guy? it can't because he's not it can't because he can't practice in this the old It's very specific. but on the flip side, she could just totally not continue the transfer to hand So it just would stop. So essentially he just would keep working in the location that he's in, but then would transfer over to him as being the Well I don't Yeah then I mean, God nothing else for self preservation. have your brother just Not that your mom's your enemy, but like you know, keep your enemies close type of thing. I just like ye Your mom's struggling with something. keep her I think you just need to keep keep her close and In the short run, you know, it's like you always hear me say, Do you want to be ready? Do you want to be happy? I mean, I don't know if this totally applies here, but I don't know if you need immediate resolution and immediate answers right now. What If I'm hearing you correctly, you just need your mom. The only yeah you want your relationship better with your mom, but like practically speaking There's this fear or thought that maybe this guy is moving in a nefarious way that he could stop this like transfer of the kind of family legacy and money and whatever from your brother. we don't want that to happen. So until that happens, let's just like try to keep the peace, keepep mom, you know, and you guys connected. She can do whatever the fuck she wants with this guy. I think it'll pass truly. I do. I think once she the actual grieving process, then He will probably phase out. And what you don't want to do is isolate her with him. Yeah. He wants that, right? Like I don't saying he's like some evil gaslighting narcissist, but that is the playbook of someone who first tries to get the you know, break them away from their support system of their family and then he will have total control. Don't let that happen. right Keep the peace You know, is embarrassing as it might be for you and your brother. Now is not the time to be like, well, if you don't talk to him, I'm not talking to you. I don't know if that's going to get you guys what you want You know, your mom's birthday party You don't need to like play therapist and be like, well, she's acting happy if I don't She's probably not happy. you know, L you don't have to be right now. You can just let your mom live in this delusion for the time being. because I feel like We we're playing the I think we're playing the long game. Yeah we're definitely playing the long game and I definitely recommend and encourage like having those conversations with a third party because they can they can look at perspectives and you guys meet in the middle and navigate the conversation to a place where it's productive and maybe help you even change your approach, Not that anything you're saying is wrong. likeike I totally agree with everything you're feeling. I just think it's hard for her to like face and acknowledge right now Um So yeah, maybe try and figure out how you can have that third party help you guys with some of these comversations. Maybe when you say it. It's more like, Hey, mom, crazy idea. But I've been struggling with like obviously the loss of but I don't know how you want to say it, but I make her feel like she's going for you with you. it's not more like an ambike canan I come and shadow you on your therapy? Yeah. Like try to make her feel like you're like this is an idea that you have and you're hoping that she can do it with you. because like You know what I'm saying? Like some kind of version of that, like could Yeah, where she doesn't feel like she's being ambushed. Yeah Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that that's something that she would struggle with for sure feeling like it would be for other reasons because she's got to know that she's just been hiding this for such a long time. I mean, it's been over a year that any of this has been brought up So like I know that she feels like she's hiding something. So it definitely is tricky to approach her about the therapy stuff only because I do think She would immediately kind of start questioning a lot of why Oh maybe step one is to Try to reconnect with your mom on a more casual friend level and get to the point where you make it a safe place for your mom to acknowledge the truth in a place where you don't immediately judge And and you're just like, you know what, Mom, I just want you happy. And if this is you happy Whatever. like, you know, but you can tell me, it's totally cool. And like and then create that safe environment So that down the road maybe you know, because again, I think if you're thinking in the time like we're playing the long game here, what all we really care about is ultimately your mom and your relationship and her making some poor finanance like that you don't we don't want her making decisions that get her real stuck that really affect her relationship with you and your brother in a way that she can't take back? Yeah you know, yeah, I guess That's where it's tough is because I feel like she already has like Like she can't take back a lot of the things. Like what I just feel like she has just continuously lied about so many different things. I mean, it's hurtful and I'm not I'm just saying what I mean is like literally allowing this guy to somehow affect the transfer, you know what I'm saying? I mean shit like that. Yeah. I'm not saying it's not okay that your mom lies. I'm just saying like you can give anyone grace. And we can try to understand where they're coming from And maybe there's like, you know, if you get your mom to go to therapy, there's defefinitely a conversation that your mom could say to you that would make you make it easier to forgive. And I'm just saying like there's definitely a path forward And I think in the short term, try to let go off all those millions of conversations where you felt like your mom didn't show up the way you expect it or to And you don't have to forgive it right now, but if you're thinking in terms of like long term Now like we're not right now we're not trying to figure out resolution. rightight now, it's almost like How do we just? How do we meet her where she is? How do we table this for a time being without making things worse before they can get better? Yeah, because her getting more and more isolated, I think is going to make things keep getting worse Well, And so then that kind of goes into a secondary question is like, what do I do with this letter Nothing nothing. Nothing. No, because I think he just probably did that to make her crazy idea Well since your mom isn't acknowledging this existence of this relationship, Maybe you could gently use it is a way to be like, Mom I got a letter and honestly I don't care like I know there's something going on. It just like how do you Again, I'm th How do you get your mom to just slowly start telling you the truth and stop hiding this thing that she's embarrassed of, and you're embarrassed and everyone's embarrassed of it existing How do we how do we that's step one is to try to Make your mom not feel so guarded and judged by her kids Because whether you're right or wrong, like that's definitely how she feels And that's only going to make her be more isolated. But I don't know. Yeah, but I don't want her looking at the guy because if she doesn't know that he wrote the letter, I don't want her looking at him like he's a hero for doing that. Like she obviously is talking to him. She's gota know. Yeah. She's gotta know it exists. Well, for him to write it and say that he apologizes for upsetting you. like He only knows that because she's talked to him about your feelings about the situation. So Well that's a good sign I just don't trust him. I don't leave my lie. I don't either. I don't have to trust him. I don't think you need to like talk to him. Again, I'm just saying step one If I'm hearing you right, your mom is still pretending she's not dating him, right? Yeah. And so like before you can have any real conversations about anything, You need to deal with reality And your mom doesn't want to deal with reality, but it makes sense why your mom doesn't want to deal with reality because like she just feels judged and embarrassed. So all I'm saying is step one is to get everyone at least dealing with reality. would yeah. And then get your mom feeling like you don't have to like it. You don't have to approve it. You're not saying, mom, I want to hear everything about your dating life. But all I'm saying, mom is like if you're happy, I'm happy and that's all we need to talk about it right now And that's just trying to get yourself in. Yeah. Okay. All right, I might agree with that a little bit. What do you think she would say if you sat down with her letter. I don't even know I don't even know if you have to center the letter and And again, I'm just spitballing here because I don't But I just knowing that if you think she must know, about this letter. You could just use that like, hey, mom, I want us to have a closer relationship. I know I've asked you about this before. and Listen, I honestly don't care. I just want you to be happy But I don't want you to feel like you have to hide stuff from me. And like I got a letter from him and honestly, whatever But like, I assume you know, but like also can we just just I just want you I just want you to tell me and I will I have no real opinion. I just my only opinion is that you can talk to me you know, and I may not want to know everything, but let's try to just try to I don't know. like what would you say to your child, I guess, in a way You know, like what how would you if you it's not going to be similar. but if you had a difficult situation where you know yourre, you know, your kid's a teenager And all you want is them to not run away. You know, like what would you say to your kid, you know, kind of thing? It's almost you have to bring that kind of energy. to that conversation because it goes in to be right, the goal is to make them see It's literally just to deal in reality because right now You don't feel like you're dealing in reality. You show up to your mom and she's in Lal la lam and she's pretending this life that she's building doesn't exist. And you're just like, this And I think that's step one Yeah Yeah I just yeah, I think part of the problem that I'm experiencing is like I just have I hold a lot of anger towards this guy because I just I think that he had two years to plan this. L I think that he From the time that my dad knew that he had his cancer, I think that he just was slowly starting to work his way in to find out everything that my mom likes and they're like doing everything that my dad would have done. So I definitely have a ton of anger towards him about the situation. Understandable Makes a lot of sense could be definitely right, but if you are right then you got to beat him at his own game. If if this fucker is patient and calculating, then you're going to have to be patient and calculating. I agree. I don't think being reactive and and and calling him out. No, because he's going to be like, Well, I' a solution. I just care like he's not going You're not gonna to be able to call a spade a spade in him be like, o, you got me You know? Yeah I think you have to play the long game I this is so long. I feel like I've been doing this for like ten years. and it's only been two. So No, I know, but in the meantime, as hard as it might be, try not to In between the interactions with the mom, you know, your mom's going to do what there's a little bit there's a lot outside of your control. So you do have other more important things going on your life Yeah I think fake it till you make it in a sense of like Nick said, when you approach her, be like, listen, I know this is going on. I don't care. We know that you hear. You very much care. but I think the more comfortable she feels with you and the more support system she feels like she has outside of this guy, the closer she's gonna lean into it move farther away from him. I think he really is a phase And it'll pass. Yeah, I had that same thought when a lot of this started and just trying to approach it that way too. And so whenever if and when your mom is ever thinking about moving on or thinking about being honest with herself and acknowledging that maybe This was just a phase. You don't want to make her resistant to facing that truth because she feels isolated and alone and she doesn't want to like be able to go to her kids and specifically her daughter, which I imagine would be easier to go to you than her son because she doesn't know what to say to you guys and she doesn't want to hear the I told you so stuff and things like that. So like again, that's why it's really important right now to mend those fences so that she feels still close with you and there's still a relationship there and you make it easy for her to not think that you're going to say I told you so and that you're not coming in with any judgment so that when she is ready to maybe see things for what they are She doesn't like She's not resistant to that. Yeah Yeah. I agree with that. I just think that She I'm just worried that any decisions that she makes are going to be like detrimental. And I think that a lot of it is going to be whatever he wants for his life, not what she wants. So that's why it's hard for me to like kind of continue to play that game as I kind of have been for the last year, especially just because I'm concerned about her future. That may be true, but like it's really for important for you to deal in facts as much as you can, right? Like so there's this property, right? You don't know logistics. You know that she's buying it with him, but what does with him mean? Is she just buying it and letting him have access to it or is she literally buying it with him? Those are two different variants different answers. But you probably can get to the bottom of that, right? So like get the information and worry what you can worry what you have to worry about. What you're kind of doing is potentially catastrophizing an uncomfortable situation And almost trying to convince yourself that you have to care now And it needs resolution immediately And that may be the truth. It also may not be the truth. And I just don't want you to make a bad situation worse by pushing your mom away and then causing and giving him more access and control to your mom. and almost creating the scenario that you'refraid could happen But you don't really have that answer, right You know, it might just be getting some good sex and she's feeling good about herself and it's really awkward and uncomfortable and also feels like a fuck you to the memory of your dad. And there's h all those layers. that's obviously just upsetting to you and rightfully so. And then like you feel a certain way, which is all valid, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your mom's in danger or that the family legacy is ultimately in danger. It's possible, but like let's not catastropize something that's not actually the case. And if there's a possibility to find out get the information. Yeah. Thanks Thanks for the call. I'll start. Yeah Please keep us updated. Yeah. you really got to play the long game here. And right now step one is getting back in with mom. And and forgetting about as much as you can Try to be your mom's friend. Yeah Not in a weird way. I know that's weird to say, it's probably not you want. but That's step one. Yeahep I agree. Well I think she's already doing that to me anyway, but not closely. Like my mom doesn't have any friends so she doesn't have anyone to talk to, which is why I felt like I needed to play the long game as well But I just think that The more that she kind of continues to choose him over us, that's where it starts to get dicey for me because why I feel like I'm the kid that is like at the bus stop waiting for my parent to come pick me up. and like they just aren't ever showing up. So like that's just the continuous game that I've been playing for such a long time that it's like, well, how long am I going to continue to wait for her to show up before I'm like I need to put like my children first, you know? there you go. I mean, like don't gets So put just put your that's the put your children first. There's no, there's no scenario in which you should be putting your mom one hundred percent, it was just, yeah, just an example, but I just I hate to continue to just like wait for her to just never Come in and I think that she will. I really do I think she will. you've unfortunately, like The roles are kind of reversed and you're taking on like a more maternal role right now. one hundred percent That's just the season you guys are in. and like one of you is going to have to take the initiative to like keep the relationship right now that might just have to be you. And there will come a time where you guys can unpack all of this. and I know that She will are to hear it when she has the capacity, but I think right now She's got to start her grieving process first, and she's got to find her place and how she can still be your mom and have this relationship with you while she's got this crazy situation going on with this guy. and for her she probably feels like she can't have both because she feels so judged and Isolated. one hundred percent So it's about just and it sucks to feel like you have to be strategic with your mom, but right now it's just about finding a strategic way back in. And then one day you guys are going to be sitting around laughing and you're going to be like, hey, do you remember when I told you I didn't really care that you were dating that guy? Yeah, I did. I hated him. And that was the worst thing ever. and you guys will be able to talk about it and unpack it, but you got to start somewhere. Yeah. We did if I'm hearing you right, we just don't want anything to complicate this transfer to your brother. That's That's the real My husband's been pushing for for time. That's is that. Yeah, that's the only thing that really is the big concern right now. I know you would hate this and it's not ideal, but if your mom decides to keep dating this guy and if she wants to like spend her money on him, that's her choice It's like not yours as long as your brother gets what's his and things like that. But you know again, not ideal. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but like, you know, you can't That's it's it is her life, you know, and ultimately she She's allowed to live it. And I don't want to get so wrapped up on your mom's choices for her life that you forget about your own. Yeah. And that's been our argument is like my husband and I and even my brother, will'll sit here and we'll have conversations about the same thing for hours and hours and hours and it was like, well, how long are we gonna continue to do this? Like she doesn't even want to be with us. She's just wanting to continue on having this relationship which is what she's allowed to do But it's just not continuing to have a relationship with us. and we just kind of thought that we would all be grieving together. inststead she is kind of having this continuance of the avoidance around it. So it's assuming that she even will grieve at a certain point because I think that her moving on to a different location and building out there is going to be a time for her to just move forward and not even think about is what I think's going to. I'm no expert in this stuff, but I feel like eventually things catch up with you. They do. Yeah One can only help. In the meantime, play the long game preserve your energy. I think, be mindful of the conversations you your brother and your husband are having. and I think there's these are valid questions is how much time should we be Like why are we arguing with our each other and play the long game and just try to create a safer place for your mom to open up to you becausecause again, she does right now, you're worried about her like, when is she ever going to ag grieve Right now, it's she is building a worldir where it's making it difficult and difficult to do. And you're not necessarily helping. I'm not saying and I get why you're frustrated and your mom is making it very difficult for you to help Nevertheless, like I'm sure your mom feels your resentment and feels your judgment and feels your anger and pushing her probably further away? Yeah, I feel like I kind of got a pushback from her about it a long time ago. So I just don't even bring it up anymore. All of our transactions with each other are pretty like friendship wise. It's nothing u, super crazy like if that makes sense. I don't feel like I'm bringing it up constantly with her because I don't even feel like I can talk about my dad with her So it really is just kind of that Hey, how are you? type situation. Maybe that's how you get mom to go to therapy so you want to talk maybe focused on your dad I'm having a hard time Could you help me improving the relationship? Yeah Maybe I think she thinks that it's fine Who knows? I mean, death is a very difficult thing to process and I don't think there's a perfect way. And I think everyone does it differently So And she is your mom, and if you ask for help to grieve the loss of your father, maybe that's a world where she could step up really know if she knows how to be a mom only because her mom also isn't very present. So I think a lot of this is stemming from how she was M growing up. So We'll see Well, I'm sorry you're going through this I'll be very, very, very difficult. But yeah, hopefully this was helpful. dont know It's such a tricky situation. This is not like a black and white like move on, have my answer. It's all good. It's just it's it's very complicated. Just try not to make a bad situation worse because this is one of those things where like you You have logic and reason on your side and can be dangerous. Yeah just to like Feling right and knowing you're right can be very dangerous because people don't Cam And sometimes Being right isn't isn't going to help with the reason, you know, you know what I'm saying? So like timing is kind of everything when it comes to like that. So Yeah A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance program. Well, you know that you love your pets. and the thing about pets is you want to make sure they are taken care of just like any member of your family. And that's where the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance program comes in and makes your life a little bit more stress free. 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Bye bye Thanks, Have a good one. too How's it going? Hi, My name is Nora. I'm twenty seven years old and I want to know how I can preserve a relationship with my stepdaughter when I don't have contact with her and she hasn't met her brother yet. Walk me through the relationship dynamic. Okay, so I ended up in a relationship with her father a few years back. There's a bit of an age gap. Her mom and my partner were going through a divorce at the time. and I was really close with the daughter of said marriage and we would do like homework together. I would go to all of her games a really positive relationship, but as soon as the Divorce got serious To be clear, I was friends with the father before the divorce start Once the divorce got serious, I started end up having a relationship with a dad that was more than just friends. Of course As one could expect, the mom ended up getting not so happy about that and then started getting the daughter involved and saying horrible things about her father, myself to make sure that she could just hurt him essentially. The mom was never really present in her life up to that point. as soon as she found out that he was dating other people then she started a basically coaching her and alienating her from us. And as of this point, her mom has successfully kept her away from us A year and a half because she is in the legal system and knows how to work it How does your daught ve And you guys now have a kid together Yeah, so About a year ago, I had given birth to my first child She was an only child, so she was really excited to have a sibling, like the most excited. And since it was during the midst of their messy divorce, she was really excited to have something to look forward to But as soon as the mom found out, she went and had her daughter say things that weren't true cour to get her way and now she hasn't even had a relationship with her father since and it's been really heartbreaking, especially since he was the primary caregiver. Your husband has no like no parental rights right now. So he has what they call like decision making custody, but just no visitation rights. He's literally doesn't have a record of any sort. I don't even know how else to say at the The Judge literally said that it's emotional abuse to bring in a new child into a child's life. I wish I was making that up. What Yeah, they don't see him as safe to be around her because she's been sane. Do you feel comfortable? and' totally fun of yout sharing whatever the accusation was it allowed the courts to decide? what they decided. There is a lot. likeike there's literally a list that her mom writes down and has her say. the one that really got her When the fires were happening in L.A, she said that he threatened her by saying the next time I see you, good luck essentially. There was also accusations of saying that like he her stole her clothes, stole her earrings Daughters or his ex wives daughters saying All of that. How do steal hisaghters She accused him of stealing her earrings that were gold and then said that he gave them to me And I'm allergic to gold. so that was Interesting. I sent images over of my relationship with this girl and proof like from the court because I feel like it's unbelievable if unless you see it because It is pretty insane, but The fact that she's able to get away with us is really frustrating. The drama between them is really between them. She's can attack me all she wants. She's tried to physically attack me at like public events. She will do anything to keep me away from her. My biggest concern is the fact that I had a really close relationship with this girl and the last time I saw her, she told us Her mom was gonna file for physical custody or whatever and that She loved me and that she was going to miss me and that she was really sad because she wasn't going to be able to meet her for other And I'm Sad because I don't know if her mom has brainwashed her enough to think that like I don't love her, that I don't care, that She's turned her against me, which I'm more than willing to do whatever it takes to wait and like have a relationship with her, even if she does hate me now I would go through a million like therapists to make to make our relationship whole again, but the fact that I can't even like talk to her or even let her have a relationship with her younger brother is really frustrating and heartbreaking. And the fact that the court allows that to happen, like separate families is more frustrating What about the relationship with Herardan? That's the most heartbreaking. I'm trying to be I really don't want to get you try to respect everyone in this situation, including the ex wife. She only gets to speak to him Lays. for five minutes, three times a week. The mom isn't supposed to be in the room, but she is and she records everything. She tells her what to say. They have therapy once a month and the mom makes her lie to the therapist and the therapist is supposed to It's supposed to encourage a relationship between the two of them, but she thinks it's harmful. And I sent this over because I feel like I have to prove it. Like I sent over like documentation of that these are the words that they use that It is emotionally abusive to bring a sibling that a child didn't want or something like that. That's crazy That was a I also want to know how to be a good partner to my partner too during this time because it's been really hard U Sing him go through this. His ex was awarded to a moveway request to move his daughter away from where he lives. And because of that, now he has no physical contact with her. Every thing every time he talks to her is through faceetime or through remote sessions. and even the therapist has seen her mom in the room, but she doesn't care. Is it your suspicion that this is piss that somehow your mom knows. like I know there's a lot of bad therapists out there, but why do you feel like this therapist Like in on it from your perspective I don't know if she's in on it. I feel partly responsible because theyave the court gave him the choice to pick three therapists that the side the other side would get to choose from. And I was looking for the best fit for them. and I thought this person would be a good fit for them. Unfortunately, after the moms started having the daughter say a lot of things, like basically making it look like we had an affair making it look like that I vandalized her property because that was one of the other things. she would break things in her house and like blame it on me saying I did that even though we had video proof. She would have her daughter say that to the therapist. And I think, you know, everyone's human, they have their own like beliefs and morals and I think that it tainted her image of herer dad as likeike a cheater essentially and like as a bad person. so she's letting that get in the way of her clinical judgment , I'm assuming That's my opinion. like I said, I can't say for sure. I've spoken to multiple professionals. My partner and I were also in family counseling and our therapist. has tried to reach out to this therapist, but she refuses to communicate with anyone other than the child's therapist. She yeah, you do you not have access to the hurt hurt your your stepdaughter's therapist. Like has your husband tried to exxplain his side to that therapist This is the frustrating part She says she doesn't believe in looking at Evidence, she doesn't need to see photos, she doesn't need to see proof. All she cares about is what the child says And I feel like that is that seems crazy. Not the way it's supposed to go. It's so strange because it feels like the situation is being handled like your partner has no parental rights. I feel like they he's being treated like his parental rights have completely been terminated. I remember hearing how like California actually shockingly is like They're more progressive in terms of father's rights versus. Well, I mean, that's what I was going to say. North Carolina is like that too. and it's like if there's a father just showing up and saying he wants to be involved. It's almost automatically awarded that heat like fifty, fifty custody, like the mom will usually get primary U which is technically like who the decision makers. And I'm speaking in terms of like because my daughter's dad and I are not together. so I know a little bit about the legalities of it. and How you're explaining this situation, I've just never heard anything like it. unless if you don't mind me asking, unless there was something egregious that happened that your partner was involved in that they were able to prove that his daughter was in harm's way or being neglected or something like that. No, the only thing that they say was putting in her is that he got into a relationship too soon. whichich is because in California, people are cheating all the time. That Well, and I should add another layer. Normally this doesn't happen. I've heard you talk on this show a bit about like family court systems. like so guardian additums, that's basically the child appointed a laawyer voice of the child. Yeah yeah Emily Baker brought that up when we were talking about the Taylor Frie Paul Yeah. so she has one of those and Her mom paid her and she's her mom's friend. Well, they're unpaid So that's No that no that there she hired her and the court approved it. And so anyither where there's a connection. That's also strange because it's usually and like an unbiased. I mean, I guess what she's saying is that giving me too much detail is Mom is somehow M has connected I think and, you know, not to be the conspir theory guy, but I do think access to power is quite powerful. Yeah, but I mean, still feel like Did your didid your partner have an attorney He did u They maxed out all of essentially He was desperate and hired the first attorney he could get during the holidays because He came home one day and his Y ex wife had left with the daughter and she said she wasn't coming back with her So he was trying to get her back home. So he hired the first attorney he could get, but the attorney wasn't very good. No, that's what I'm thinking Is the ex wife, does she have more financial means than your your husband Yeah, she was the primary income earner. He actually took off work to take care of the daughter. When I first met him, I thought he was a single parent. I had no idea that there was even like a mom in the picture. because I just never saw And I would go to like all of her games and stuff and I would never see her. And were they separated or you guys were just friends So he and I were just friends. They separated eventually but we didn't start dating or even getting romantic until after the divorce was filed. I saw him as genuinely just a good friend and I saw his daughter, kind of like, I saw a little bit of myself in her, like we had just a really strong bond and I felt like I could understand her and she understood me in a way that was very special. Well, listen, I mean, it sounds, I mean, all this legal stuff, aside, which certainly were no experts Yeah. I mean, all I can do is acknowledge what you're telling agree that it sounds very bizarre and Um and and difficult. If mom is really lying her You know, I don't know if there's a sh term solution Unfortunately R But I do think you know, kids are smarter than you realize and and If mom's really lying and she's, you know, u And the story you told about like, you know, I'm sad, I'm not going to be able to see my brother. You know, she's still she's definitely old enough to remember this moment. She's going to have some questions. and This sounds probably crazy like you know, she' only six years away from being an adult. I've been counting five years five years and five months away. Right twve. You know, And I think all you can do right now is to not make a bad situation worse. Eventually she's going to want to know the truth. you know And eventually she's going to start answering she's going to start asking questions And she's things are going to start like not adding up to her. So My daughter is thirteen and her dad and I haven't been together since she was about fifteen months and She's, you know, She's got a couple of years before she's able to like make her own decisions for herself. But she is at the age where she's able to share like what her preference is and where she wants to be And even though you guys aren't in contact with her and I'm so sorry about that. like that horrible Nick said she's only a couple years away from kind of being able to make those decisions for herself. And I promise you she's observing everything and evenven if there has been a little bit of brainwashing There's some things about this whole situation that just don't add up, and she's going to look for her own answers and her own solutions to things. and I think that's the only thing you can find peace in knowing right now Also the best thing you can do like in the position you're in is continue to just be a good supportive for. partner because at the end of the day, like Unfortunately, as much as you love her, like you don't have any parental rights. So it can't be like your battle to fight I think maybe just support your partner and however he can pursue this with his daughter because that's going to be his place to take the initiative because there's like Nothing that you can do as the step parent Unfortunately. Yeah, and I understand it, and I've come to turn to that. It's pretty much the main topic of my therapy sessions But I think one thing there is a disconnect in understanding. So it's not that her mom is lying to her, she's making her daughter lie. And she knows their're lies. Like she's making her say all these accusations that are just physically not possible. How do you know that's true because she told us when she when we were still able to see her in person, she would tell us, oh, yeah, my mom threatened this if I didn't say this to So to the Guardian additum. And if I didn't tell the court this, then she threatened like she threatened me with this T bad you weren't recording that. No, I did, and they wouldn't admit it They wouldn't Yeah, you can't Because you can't record a minor. Being able to submit E though her mom does that all the time and they let her admit all of her stuff. I mean, she literally Is she a lawyer or something? Like If her mom's a lawyer, Even u bugged the house and was recording every conversation that her partner and I had when I was visiting Every move that we had. there's like weeks and weeks of footage there and they're able to use those audio recordings and I think that your partner should explore I mean,'s there's like family attorneys that will cases like this for sometimes little to no cost, especially if Like it sounds like there's some mental and emotional abuse going on with and His daughter I think he should continue to explore his options. Like if his parental rights have not been terminated, like there is a lot he can do If she's, you know, an attorney, then she does have a lot more knowledge and I guess resources than you guys have, But like he's not powerless. mean're powerless. I'm not saying ' I'm not believing you. It does seem like a crazy story But if what you're saying is all true then it sounds like there's some real like bad shit going on and an abuse of power both as ht from a legal profession and as a mother and imagine it must be very scary to go up against that. But yeah to Jess's point, it's like Yeah, the situation seems dark and I get the whole logic of likery No, no, don't don't apolog. I appreciate the call. I get this whole situation. like you know, I get it. it makes sense like why you can't submit something recording a minor, but like what if there iss literally evidence of a child saying I'm being told to lie. Yeah. And like that seems crazy. How like the move was approved and how likeike their conversations even have to be monitored I don't understand They don't have to be. They said that it's supposed to be they they were saying that They They said Dad is supposed to be able to have like unlike monitored calls with the daughter. He's not a threat. Like can he like Did she play sports? Yes, but is he allowed to go He had to fight for that go because the mom was saying, o, she's uncomfortable with you being there. She's not she's mad at you for having a sibling she didn't want. She wants nothing to do with you but she doesn't want to. I cannot gr grasp how No, I feel like they're treating him like he's My sister don't want me born. Right. And that's what I'm saying. They're treating him like something egregious happened.' her I've never heard of anything like this And people cheat. I mean, like what how many like it's like not great, not, you know, but like that I don't see how that is used against people when it comes to custody of people. I think it's fairly common for lawyers to take advantage of the legal system when they're the ones who know the law and they're going up against someone who doesn't. and then all their friends are lawyers and all the lawyers know all the judges and it's like it can And and her lawyers are great. I thirird party like they't really know how to argue they make His and his's relationship sound awful. Yeah, I got it I just that's they're good at their jobs. I guess, but like it's also I thought it was literally not a crime. Unfortunately may be like it may be like taboo. It may be like your church might not be down to fuck with it, but like legally like I don't know. I've just never heard of that affecting custody situation unless the child actually is danger good lawyers, I guess good lawyers I don't. Yeah, But there's got to be if there's someone listening to this that's involved in family law, there's got to be someone that can help If his parental rights have not been completely terminated, there's a lot he can do. They still have fifty fifty say on what she does and what on. He just doesn't have say he just can't see her No, it's crazy There's got to be someone that can help him. I would encourage you to encourage him to keep exploring his family. And if you're listening and you know anything about family law. Please. That all being said To Jes's point and to our point, like what you called in for I this you really proud you really have to be I guess careful one and how you like move. You do like you take a risk even coming on here, but you have your son? Um Like I guess focus on what's in front of you And I got, I mean, like listen, if you told me I'd wait six years to talk to my daughter, I would not be like an acceptable. Oh no. situation. N happen Yeah, just don't make a bad situation like give Give her every reason to wonder why I don't have a relationship with my father. you know? Yeah, find people very difficult for her to like even if you know like you now you know as a twelve year old, she knows their lies, but who knows she's only twelve and like how she remembers things growing up, it could change. you know. If he's allowed to show up to the baseball games I think you should show up to the baseball. Yeah, one hundred percent. if he just kind of like tucks his tail between his leg even that's not going to look Even if he's off to the distance you know, but like just no, you know, like it's like finding that balance to not be aggressive and confrontational with her and not being like an agitator. Yeah. He's hanging out in the parking lot the outfield, but like as long as she like knows he's there maybe she she slips and almost admits it to her daughter. or just like maybe she cleanses, but like he kept showing up and he kept trying to have this relationship and any non aggressive non kind of agitating way that makes him, you know, lets her know that he didn't quit because and we I mean, our first call, different, but similar. And it made me like remind me of my first girlfriend who had a very complicated relationship with her father and her mom would kind of plant some seeds of doubt. But like what you don't want is for your husband to give up in some way and emmit defeat And then it allows mom to plant more narratives of like, you know, he didn't care and Yeah he needs to continue to pursue that relationship however he can. And it's obviously very hard and she's making it harder, it sounds like, but He needs to do whatever he can to not just tuck his tail between his legs and yeah. Oh he's not that kind of a person. He will do whatever. He takes every chance he gets. like he even like finds excuses being like, oh, I got some new clothes for her that you know, or like got some new clothes that from my family. I would love to just drop these off to like just to see her like, you know, on the whole going to the baseball games and that he was dropping off some gear for her and My son and I were also in the area. We were just hanging out at the playground, and the mom actually ended up coming to approach us and started taking pictures of us and yelling at us in front of the entire team, saying that like, we're not welcome here. Everyone knows that he has no custody, that he has no rights. She's been very vocal with everybody. That sounds insane. How do how do the people around Bnd to them They're just in shock most of the time, but she's that kind of a person. I think they know her to be like that I don't know. It's pretty crazy. No, I know, but at least I guess what maybe you have that going for you because she sounds crazy. And if she's really acting this way I mean, again, like in Calu out California nowadays divorce is common Parenting is common. most most people are dealing with it and not dealing with it It's obviously very messy But people get remarried. Even if there was an affair, people have kids and here you are with your kid showing up to a game and she's out there yelling at you and making all these accusations and it just sounds unhinged and Let her just keep acting unhinghinged while like, you know, just you can't I don't know. I don't know if that's like helpful, but it just sounds it sounds so crazy Yeah. No, I mean, she literally like came up to us and was, she's like, I know all about you and your fucked up family and all this stuff to me, like that didn't even really make any sense. And I was trying to de escalate it because obviously at the time, my child wasn't even a year And I was like, there's no restraining order. Can you please not make us about you Please like this is not about you, this is not about me. Can you please not make this about you? Because I don't want conflict. and I also don't want to be an example to my son that like I engage in that kind of banter I could just see the daughter just like wanting to hide. like it was it was really heartbreaking and she does that. And then they have a co parenting counselor that was made aware of the situation. And then the mom didn't even deny it. She like on email like didn't deny it. She said she was like Yeah, well, I'm gonna she's like, I would rather die than have my daughter have a relationship with that family with her father with her brother. She wrote that down She said that in person and then we wrote that down, like saying that this is the transcript about what she said And she didn't and she didn't deny that to the therapist But like how was that not like how was that ye A parent admitting They would rather choose literal violence potentially then be reasonable And I mean, that's why they got divorced too is because she has a history of being aggressive. Well, listen, I'm sorry we don't have more answers for you when it comes to like the whole legal aspect. but again, if someone's listening and wants to reach out, maybe we can I don't know, give you some advice but it does seem like you guys are resource deprived and outgunned, so to speak. and out muscled when you're dealing with someone who apparently has A lot of access to legal information knowledge and lawyers and judges. And to whatever degree that happ is out there it's a real shame. but In the meantime, do what you can And and I probably say that without with when it sounds like really helpless, but you're only five and a half years away and I know that sounds like eternity right now, but Let's, you know, to whatever degree you can make sure it's it's it's five and a half years and not and not ten, you know? And and makeake it easy for for the child to like want to want to reach back out whenever she can make her own choices. becausecause even when she is eighteen, she's going still have the manipulative controlling mother that she is. You know, there'll obviously be some damage there And it won't be eas it won't be just as easy to be like, I'm eighteen. I'm That's what I told him to. I actually really wanted him to be on this call And unfortunately he couldn't make it. But I agree. Yeah, it's gonna to take time. Am I crazy for like taking videos of like my son's milestones and being and like mentioning her name, being like, hey, look, just like your sister's gonna to see us one day Oh wait wait, who are you doing that to? Like you're not putting that post in the public, right?? No, no, no, I'm just keeping them in my files like for later. So that way eventually when they do recon like we do reconnect like I be like, heyy, like I was thinking about you and Oh yeah, yeah, ye I think yeah, yeah, of course, Ra. I mean, yeah, whatever you whatever helps you cope I think is fine. I would never post anything about her. I mean my I don't even post my partner online because I just don't really like the drama of it. But like, you know, when she goes in she sounds like she's in middle school, but high school, like as much as he legally can. Sh up. Yeah You know, be at the school plays, be at the soccer games, be again Keep his distance Don't be an agitator You know, but just be around. So she she will never have a narrative that Dad was that he was look like he tried in some version The older she gets, the more When you get older, then she'll have friends who have parents and other people who have divorces. She will be like, my situation doesn't look like anyone else's You know U You know, and make it easy for her the child to ask questions when she's capable of asking these questions. if that makes any sense It does. I just I feel Like you said earlier, like powerless is definitely the word I would use. What's hard too is that my partner wants to also have her have a relationship with us. like he wants this all to be a big family and everything. And he doesn't care if it has to take time to get to that point. but I think it's frustrating No, no, no, he wants his daughter to be able to have a relationship with me, my son. Yeah and him like and of course She'll ask like, hey, if I can go to this, can I bring them with they she doesn't have to say hi to them or anything like that? And when That was approved, then that whole encounter happened. And so that since then we haven't been felt safe enough to go. Yeah. I mean, baby steps Yeah, I mean, what's weird to is like in the written order, it says that he basically has to keep us separate like me and H brother and her separate from each other. Like there shouldn't be any contact a switch I don't agree with. Yeah, that that sounds It's like you're making him choose between us, which I think is wrong. Yeah, no totally. But I think I still I do think right now the most important relationship that you have at least a little bit of control I access to is your Husband and his daughter You know, that's the bond that matters the most you're going to have to be a little bit more patient Um And the good news is is, you know Kids don't remember much O two or three years old. Oh I ts likeike if you're, you know, has to wait tillil he's six to have, you know, you know what I'm saying? It's it's, again, this none of this is ideal and I'm not I'm trying trying to paint up Yeah, like if you have to sacrifice a little bit and your son has to sacrifice a little bit so that your husband clear path to have some kind of civility. so that he can have some kind of relationship with his daughter. then I think that would matter most. And that I'm sure will be painful for you and no doubt, be sad Again, if we're thinking about long term in the long game, his ability to stay in the picture be have some kind of presence in his daughter life, his daughter's life, evenven if you have to take a backseat that won't feel fair. It won't be fair But it might be the best for you guys in the long term because then Again, on she's eighteen You know U then at least you have options for twenty or thirty, depending on when she's able to actually break free. Sure, but but but the best better relationship she has with dad. The more, you know, she's going like listen as an eighteen year old girl, she's going to want to look for reasons to have a relationship with her daughter. And maybe mom will lie. Maybe momom will tell some crazy lies, but he just has to go out of his way to make it so hard to believe and show up so that it isn't twenty or But I've seen situations not like not exactly like this, but where Mom it's so impossible to have a relationship. Dad gives up Dad leaves the picture. Mom plants a bunch of seeds of doubt and It makes it easier for the kid to believe the lies. I mean, that's why I'm in love with him. He's the kind of dad that does the nontraditional thing of like just leaving when things get hard. I mean, he literally like blew up all of his finances just to keep going to court, just to fight for her, even for just a five minute phone call, even just for a faceetime call Like he'll do anything to have her in his life no matter what. I mean, like I said They were like a unit, like the primary, like they were best friends and it's just so hard to see how things ended up where they are right now. I think another thing too that I did want to also bring up is that I am having some feelings of guilt and I hate to say this, but like The lawyers and the therapists have made it sound like I was selfish for having another child or that like It was not fair to theght or to have another child. And I'm like, how can that how can a child be like not a blessing, you know? I That's crazy. don't I know, don't care I can't make sense of something that makes no sense. So I don't try to make sense of it. it's crazy But I'm also having it so we're expecting another one too. and I'm terrified of it. Last rememember last time when she found out I was pregnant, that's when she filed for sole physical custody Before that, she already had had him legally kicked out of the house because of her vandalizing the propertty saying that he did that. And he only got to see her like every other weekend. But then even that was taken away at the moment she found out that he was having another kid. And I'm worried now that he basically has nothing other than, oh, she gets to do this extracurricular activity or go to this tutor or have this school or whatever I've seen things go from bad to worse to worse and worse, even if you don't Think it could get worse And I'm worried that like I want to celebrate this baby that is coming and I don't want to feel like it's a negative thing. But like how do I protect that? And also how I don't want to feel ashamed like my my family feel ashamed of like having like this big secret, like do you get what I'm saying? I'm sorry No, I totally do. I mean, listen I don't have Good answer Other than the fact that like it's obviously a blessing and congratulations. It's a beautiful thing that you guys have. I can't make sense of the court's ruling. So like I don't And you can't control whatever narrative she's going to tell. I think you just have to find peace in knowing like This your stepdaughter is going to form her own opinion. And for all you know, she already has one and She's going to find her way back to you guys if your partner keeps the door and those lines of communication open, and you're right your son and your baby you guys are about to have is nothing short of a blessing. And you shouldn't feel ashamed of it. and For some reason, you being pregnant again takes things from Bad to worse. there's that you can do about that. Like I think your partner maybe not have gotten pregnant in the first place, which is ridiculous. No that's not to say that That's what you can't do. You can't You can't do that. It's obviously again, it's a blessing You're growing your family. Y child needs you, bothoth of your child needs you. and that's what you can control to just this point is like you can show up as a mom to your kids And it must I don't the guilt you and your husband have, you know, not being able to be there for his daughter and your stepdaughter, but like And again, I say this without knowing what I would do in your shoes. So you know, God bless you because I'm sure it must just be a nightmare But Yeah, And I also like I don't know, you're right. I That's a very powerful quote that you're like, you know For things to get worse when you don't think they can get worse is a very scary feeling. So I don't want to tell you not to worry because clearly You tried that before. Um, And it got worse. But I don't know. Like and again, I'm trying to make sense of something that doesn't make sense. Like, well, if the court blames You know, that's why they took some away of some of his rights, but does it take his rights to make decisions for his daughter? Be you guys, I don't know. doesn't make any sense. No, I mean, like how can you give someone like fifty percent like decision making rulings and then but oh, you can't see your. But who is say?ly there f m If m. If he was granted fifty if they have a fifty fifty custody agreement, then There's no way he should be getting like bulldozed like he is. If It just doesn't He should seek and do some research on like family advocacy. and even if he can't afford another attorney, I know that there are resources. for people who don't have resources to pay for them that can at the very least educate him on what his rights are because I think that's another thing is he doesn't have a very good understanding of like how much power and say he actually does have And maybe he just avoids doing more just to kind of like not rock the boat with I'm sure she's very scary. Yeah. it turnounds like that Well she will always say like in the court, like I have unlimited resources. She can't control herself. She will like she like swears in court at the judge, but she get it's literally bizarre. like she gets away with it. And I think what's hard for me too is like this is a whole other thing, but like you were saying to like look out for advocacy groups for him he spends every time he can to like just get like into these support groups and like learn all this stuff. and then they give him hope and then he'll file something and then it goes against him. It's like The law isn't working the way it's supposed to. and Like I said, not I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all, but like I also know the reality of who this woman is and the influence she has Like I'm not blind to that But like anybody who like reads order that they have for their divorce It's like pretty obvious. It's like, wow, mom is clearly making the daughter say all this stuff and keeping her away from dad. that shouldn't be happening It's also like why give some fifty, fifty in terms of like making decisions. But like he can't see her. Oh, he's not a threat. He has no criminal record. Oh, but he shouldn't see her. I can't believe he had another child. I can't believe he've gone to into a new relationship. Like what Yeah, no, it sounds, you know, sounds terrible. U you can't, I guess to answer your last question before we let you go is like The idea that you're going to like feel shame or guilt about your current pregnancy or just like At some point you're just going to have to choose to be the best parents you can be to your kids that you are able to parent. And as impossible it is to be forced to make this decision There there's Al light at the end of the tunnel and that is five and a half years from now if nothing better happens and he will keep fighting and it doesn't mean you stop trying and maybe there's a different advocacy group or whatever. But What you can what you don't want us to do is let this current situation deteriorate your family that you do have and let this become such a toxic situation that you guys can't show up for each other. You can't show up for the kids that you do have. It creates resentment and frustration and your family because you just got to survive the next five and a half years Um, and do what you can and put all your love and your kids. And again, He's got to do what he can for his daughter and show up in ways that allow her to see the truth in in the long in the long run and and and not be a threat and not be an agitator and let mom keep being crazy I think there's a lot of daughters who have challenging relations with their mom grow up to like see a clear picture of how mom was. And that really easy for her to see when she's old enough to see it. How would you recommend I show up as a partner to my partner because I feel Like I want to be also like he's the one who's really going through it too. L, yeah, I'm heartbroken. I feel completely powerless, but Sometimes I think I'm being helpful, but like there's I feel like there's also like nothing I can do, but I want to do something to like make him feel better. Like he's the love of my life and seeing this like destroy him is really hard. Give him hope, give him encouragement. you know, like I would you know, not that you're doing it, try not to center your feelings and sadness, validate his, encourage him. you know, Same thing as I'm kind of saying to you, just do what you can. We'll get through this, you know, I know donon't try to invalidate his experience by like obviously saying like, you know It's just That's a lot of that. and remind him why you did fall in love with them and remind him of how he shows up for your guys' kids and you know, um Ging him hope, be a cheerleader. and remind him that there's light at the end of the tunnel, you know, and he's going to get his patience through you. you know, what you don't want to do and I'm not, you know, is to let them know how sad you are about, you know, like you can be sad with how making him feel like he has to take care of you during the situation. Like this is you know, that's what my therapist is for. Yeah.. So So there you go. So it sounds like you're doing whatever you can, you know, But I think you just you have to accept that This is going to maybe be a long battle And Maybe there' just gonna be days where you have to I'm sure there's an element Especially for your husband and you that not worrying about it and not stressing about it almost feels like you're giving up and abandoning hope and abandoning her. He nailed it. yeah. You have to acknowledge that that's not the case and that you're only gonna hurt yourself. And if you if you can't control your literal ability to see her, Again, as crazy as it sounds. you almost have to start planning for the future, planning for five years from now,, you know, like and just make sure that you guys are there at the finish line when she's able to show up there too Yeah. And even though it feels like there's like a lot of time that might be lost There's going to be even more time that there is for you guys to have time to make up for it and make new memories and It seems like it's far away, but you've got more life ahead of you guys than you do behind you in this situation It's just not fair to her or to anyone in the situation No I know, but that those That's a thought that unfortunately, as valid as it is, isn't helpful You know, because when you think about fairness, it's just it''s crippling. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, clearly it's fair to take away any right to see another parent for No reason that I'm sorry. this sounds like a nightmare Um, And and I know this isn't like your usual Yeah they th my wheel or Um, but I appreciate you for hearing me out, honestly, just even being able to say it out loud because I feel like I've been I don't share this with literally anyone. L this is a part of my life that I keep like f private. Like likeike I said, like no one on social media even knows that my partner exists. Nobody really knows about because I want to respect everyone's privacy. It's also an I don't want If I can avoid involving any child, in any kind of drama I can, I will. It means a lot for me to be actually able to say something to share because I feel like I've been silenced this whole time. and I don't have a lot of like parent friends my age that can relate to this kind of stuff, especially because I have an age gap relationship, you could say. Not easy. Yeah, no. I mean, listen also I don't know how many people can relate to this. This is this seems literally. The only thing that reminds me of was that dirty Jh dir dir dirty John thing where he was a lawyer and and And having that power was something that he really took advantage of I've never seen that, but I'll take your word for it. Yeah I wouldn't watch it. Yeah Well, I am sorry you're going through this, but congratulations on your pregnancy And listen, yeah, like stress obviously is something right now you really need to try to avoid. And so