Character Development and Espionage in Star City

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Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state s have to clear Watch, my name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at theringer. com And joining me at the studio, the originator of the hashtag Free Max Katie movement, It's Andy Greenwald. I don't think you should watch Cape Fear on Apple TV for the murder drama. I think you should watch it for the insightful glimpse into the world of podcasting. The lurrid world of podcasting, which is featured early on. It is. I love prerestige television's concept of podcasting gives me no end of joy. Andy, it's so good to see you Monday In America, what do we have on tap? Game three in New York City for the NBA finals. The World Cup begins this week. I'm happy they shut down those watch parties. I'll tell you that much. I want to talk to you about this. You? Yeah. This is one of those days Yeah, we're going to talk Cape Ver. We're going to talk Star City but this is one of those days where you came in shot out of a cannon And we almost started potting before we started potting four times. It's a pretty stimulating world we live in. Is it? Yeah. Is there a lot going on? Is just Is this just Nithi momentum you're feeling right now? Anything is possible? That's the hardest laugher we' can gonna get from Kaya all day. That's Kaya She's sadly taking down all herat Pat sites. Damn. Prat Blls. J. I was one of the people in Santa Monica who was devastated. I didn't actually get to vote for Spencer Pratt. You can hit us up at the watchatch at sppotify. com. You can follow us on Instagram At the watchatchpod underscore our lovely production staff was was mostly in Sweden. Well they were in Sweden, not mostly in Sweden. Well mentally they were a little. And so we missed out on clipping Some incredible culinary conversation that we had at the end of. I know it's podcast. What the rules about that? Do you feel viral? Can canan you dip back into the vaults You just like put a little sepia tone on it just from the past. He's gonna to go back and be like when these guys were talking about Game of Thrones season five. Yeah, trrue cooking. Yeah. O he could just do the thing where he runs together like the Oppo research when we have a guest on that I've spoken ill about their work in the p And you just bring up all the clips when Nandy's just been like not a fan. Remember then all the silence in those pods? You can watch this on YouTube at the Bringer dash t It's just ringer dash TV. I always say the ringer and it's ringer dash TV on YouTube You can also watch us on Spotify where I hope you listen to us, but you can also find us on other podcast platforms Housekeeping. Okay. As some people may have heard last night on the Bill Simmons podcast, I'm going to be appearing on co hosting whatever a World Cup show on the Adam Freedelland show. This is a wild turn event. I believe it's the Adam Friedlan show Colon, The Beautiful Pod is the title It's a like mini series that we'll do over the course of the World Cup. Adam is making shows for us now or making shows for Spotify and now we're going to do a little bit of a fun kickoff before his new season of its normal show. Is he a big football fan he is he iss an unreal ball knowower. I must Really? Yes. Yeah He likes a phone call He likes to make a phone call and he likes to just kind of just kind of be like, here's some topics I have on all football related, but yeah,'s unbelievable. I felt that because that's not what I do. So if It's interesting. you found a younger Jewish co host. and okay, I'm just trying guys out It's noted. And So if you're excited about the World Cup like I am, check that out that kicks off I think we're gonna to have an episode on Wednesday. I mean, that's when the World Cup kick off. you better get it together. Do you wish you were in New York City today the center of the known universe. Well, this is tough because as a, I mean Ltime New York resident U I want my friends Have you yet eclipsed New York with LA in terms of time spend? No, no, no, no, we're barely the halfway mark. Okay. I can't say I root for the Kicks, but I root for the vibes and want I do want New York to win and I want my friends in the great city to be happy. It must be tough for you because as a big chemistry merchant. Yes. as a big I thought this would be after dark, but yeah, go ahead. No, we can talk about it now because this is something I think everybody is sharing. Everybody has become a a Nix watcher. you know, whether or not they enjoyed it or not And like everything about this team, guys going to college together, dudes doing podcasts together the Carl Anthony Town mom storyline like Everything about it, Jim Dolan's bigig redemption in New York City. Okay. Chalam stilliller, you know, like the you crested and now we're going to the other side of the mountain. It just seems like if there was ever a teamsason packaged for you, it's this. The only problem is, you're from two hours south. Yes. I have I've said this to you to what I would characterize as open derision which is Two years ago, when it became the Novaix, I was like, we have to be honest with each other I would kill to cheer for a team like. Yes. This is a dream situation if only they weren't wearing the blue and orange I Yes, I like the vibes, I like the team. I would watch just Carl Anthony Towns' post game interviews where he just becomes like this wise satum about the great continuum and loving the beautiful sport and he's g a life. It's unloved like a river. dude, it's unbelievable. man, it's very moving And I'm happy that New York is having a moment. Also, I just realized I have a little packet of granola on the television. Why do you have that I was just snacking. Dould you love a free snack? I was just you just grab something It's like maybe that'll taste good this morning. Thanks guys for keeping that on camera. I want to say that Sean Fantasy is one of the great loves of my life, you know. And so I want him to be happy Yeah. and that's where it starts an ends That's really nice. Yeah. It also ends at the gate to City Field. And if I have memories of Sean being relatively supportive. Yeah of at least the Eagles notot like cheering for the No, no no but just being like, I'm happy or're happy. And so I I pass it back to him, the baton I think that friendship and and good sportsmanship. Seeing basketball games at Madison Square Garden is awesome and then it's better if the Nicks are good Um And maybe they stay in their own arena, like the fans as well. I think that would be nice Also, I think instead of coming to our It's good for our narrative as struggling Sers fans if they never lose again. Um, but do you think that our president is going to kill the vibes tonight Do you think that he personally will be responsible for their first loss? I I definitely think that his whether it's the seecret Service or whatever it is knocking out all these watch parties and all this Street festival vibe, genuine v They've got going is not cool. and is going to frustrate some people If he went out and did side talkalk after the Kicks win like a close game three and was like fuck tray young Hed probably get a third term First of all, you should go into the advisor racket. I think that's not wrong. If I was just like shoot this guy full of Aderol and send him out into S talkalk. Yeah I think people would overlook some some flaws in. Tell them what strange. Tell them what glizzies are, get him. onn the uptown number one train. No, I don't know. I think it's fucked up. Yeah, I wish those I wish people were able to go watch and like they they like canceled it all the way sou to battery park or whatever like Yeah. It's like the city midtown's basically shut down You love Midtown. That was always your favorite N neighborood just kind of just through I live sitting in a cafe in her old square watching life go by. Nobody gives a shit about this. I do I do, but like you know, people come here because they want hard hitting takes on television. In Philadelphia sports outside of our wait can I tell you one thing, make one recommendation about television? O just since we're Speaking broadly here. I don't know if you check this out but there is a documentary on Martin Short I didt check this out. It is called Marty Life Ashort and I recommend it For fans of comedy, for fans of and short, obviously. it's a great glimpse into a person who seems like a truly wonderful menchi human being who is beloved by everyone and is a good performer and a good person and all that. And his history is interesting It's also at once like very, very moving about how much like the Nova Nicks people grew up together and like this like foundational Toronto production of Godpell in the seventies had like Gilda Radner and Andrea Martin and Eugene Levy and Martin Shord and all these people that went on to Victor Garber, like all these Paul Schaeffer was the band leader in all these like seminal moments where people were just young people screwing around and then they all became something Katherine O'Hara But the real reason I have to watch this and I think I need you to watch this is it is a damning indictment of how we've conducted ourselves socially as adults because the backbone of this documentary is Martin Short's home movies, either in Los Angeles for his he and his wife Nancy's like legendary Christmas parties or their summers in their cottage, which It's a little more of the cottage somewhere somewhere in Canada L a late cottage. Yeah where they just reliably host Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, Kurt Russell and Goldie Haan. Um Katherine O'Harea, Euge Levy, all these incredibly famous, funny people. And I'm like They were younger than we are now, just hanging grillin burgers, jumping in lakes and laughing When do we get the Grill and Burgers jumping in lakes and laughing part of our friendships, or should we have been friends with richer people I mean there's a lot to unpack here. Thank you. I am I'm shook up. Like I loved this documentary. when is the grilling taking place, like on a historical timeline? I will tell you exactly without telling you what year it's taking place, I will communicate it to you There is a Steady cam shot of Eugene Levy grilling burgers with one hand and ripping a dart with the other. Okay, so this is nineties. see Yeah. Be I'll tell you something Last night. Yeah I got u Some Thai food and I like some like What I mean is I got a noodle dish U Well, it's like basically it's night markarket and they make a crunch trap It's pretty good. Yeah and some rice. And then after that, I was like my mouth is hot, I'm gonna get some ice cream. I spent one hundred and ten dollars I also went to both places. Yes. This is no disrespect to Night Market, which is an incredible restaurant, nor the ice cream establishment I went to, which is good but overpriced. Yes I don't think I can host anyone. I can't be making burgers for so many people Be ofost Be of the cost, because of the cost of food and living. Yeah. So basically what you're saying is this is another thing that boomers took from us. Country houses, lakes Camaraderie Gw it Exactly It is, I mean, you're not of all, you're not Everything sucks. I'd love to throw my doors open. Nobody wants to come over. Yeah What do you mean you'd love to, but what try I just think that like in LA, it's just a lot more difficult to make plants than it is in New York or anywh else the world. I'm going to stop you. Half of these gatherings in the Martin Short documentary are in L.A. Yeah. And there's a moment in nineties when there was like a third less people here, I feel like At the Christmas party.' those Joan Diddian books and she's like, I was on Franklin Avenue and then I drove to Santaonica in nineteen minutes. You know's the quueen of that is Eve Babbott. Eve Babbott is like, Well, I woke up feeling a little indolent in Silverlake today, so I drove to Carpenteria for the morning Must be nice. ot One of these Christmas parties, where Martin Schartz's like doing a little Sinatra song to kick it off. and he's like, who's next? And then someone stands up from the crowd of It's Frank No it's fucking The guy goes up to the microphone and goes, It's me, Glen Fry, the happy Eagle. And everyone's like, a, Glen Then he plays piano for a while, and then Sally Field jumps on the piano. Well, that's nice I appreciate what you're saying about the cost of living. It has skyrocketed, but I also think that you're avoiding the vulnerable truth at the bottom of this, which is that we've screwed up our adult. We have. There's no doubt about. It's shakakingen me up. And yes Is this a rareified air like on one of their vacations, Tom Hanks and Martin Short for the with Steven Spielberg on the handicam Ringer friend, Stevenleles thir chair. They decide to recreate the last scene of Butch Cassidy in the Sundance Kid with Tom Hanks playing Fororest Gump which had just released, and Martin Sort as Ed Grimley. And Steven Spiober directed it. Filming it. Yes, as they jump off a boat together saying they can't swim. U That's incredible. will This is a Netflix documentary Netflix. If anyone has any advice on how we can be better adults, having watched this ailris My only recommendation from the weekend is just that I completed my journey with the Dark Wizard who is Mount Climber, Dean Potter, four part documentary about him on HBO, which then sent me down a hundred foot wave esque rabbit hole of watching mountain climbing documentaries. Oh, that's cool. So I also watched the Alpinist, which is on Pacock which is made by the same filmmakers as Dark Wizard and A little bit of like a Peter Sararsgard narrated documentary about the history of climbing in Yosemite, which I found on Amazon, but I think it's something in the valley, I can't remember what it is. Anyway. All right. That's a dangerous sport. Yeah, That's where I'll leave that. That's always been my sense of it. Yeah. You ever ever never even an inkling G to want to climb mountain Yeah,'s not my business. No mountain's there well before me. It'll be there well after me I will say the the The greatest compliment I ever received was and in retrospect, I think it was maybe just a fishing expedition of friendship, like just sort of offering a hand But when I was in Albuquerque making the show a few years ago, someone on the crew was like Do you ever rock climb And I was just said, thank you For thinking that I might have Oviously no. but that is the nicest, most optimistic thing anyone's ever said. What's some of those guys though, man? I was thinking about this both The hundred foot wave dudes and like these mountain climbing guys, I don't think they actually Qote unquot exercise, like outside of that they participate in. Like they don't have to lift. And this is what they said about John Crok too. Like you say what are you saying? No, Alex Honold Yeah like everyone's in a couple of these shots in Dark Wizard has his shirt off, and I'm like, this dude's cut out of pure marble. Like this is insane. I thought you're gonna do some like the discourse about Homer gear I thought that's what you were gonna say. The discourse my home or gear. that he like isn't ripped in that scene in Euphoria Well, so what? Yeah I'm on your side, man. N not body shaming. I thought you were setting up the story to be like He is an elite mountain climber. tames nature. Yeah, you know, and he's ripping dirs between T of bites. Let's get into actual television. How about that We just named some television. We didn't Dark Wizard on HBO, Martin Shortark documentary on Netflix, to recommendations from this weekend. All right. Andy and I also so we're up to date on Starcity. We're going to talk about that in a little bit. I thought we could jump in and talk a little bit about Cape fear, but before we did that. Yeah, yeah. Can we just address the fact that Most of what we've talked about over the last couple of weeks has been Apple This is out of no great allegiance to their to their services or products. It's just a reality of they said in front of their books. Why I know. I mean, it's ridiculous. but There have been various moments when I have felt this. I think the fact that I you know, we've talked about maximum pleasure guaranteed. We've been talking about Widows Bay. We're talking about Star City and Cape Far. We haven't really talked about your friends and neighbor season two We didn't keep up with Margot's G money problems, but like It goes on and on the sheer volume of stuff that they' put out that somehow has wormed its way, not wormed, but like What do you think is going on here? Like is this is this a we can just outspend and outlast? Yes touch on this a little bit on Thursday, but I think that this is the best case scenario of their flood the zone strrategy. They simply have more swings every time they come to the plate. They have more things in production. If you go on the list of current current programming and upcoming of Um I would say upwards of twenty to twenty five upcoming drama and comedy series, many of which are at least intriguing via logline or Star Power. And those are the ones that are awaiting a scheduled release date. They have so, so much in the chamber and I think it's raising their batting average. Now that said, I think they are also rounding in a form and understanding better what it is that they do and what they can what sort of what they can fill in the marketplace Um I think that and we'll talk about this week obviously, like I think you and I have praise a different part of their strategy than the part that might be I was about to say keeping the lights on The lights are fine over the lights are fine Yeah. But but but some of the shows that you mentioned that we are not covering probably the ones that the programming team would point to internally to say like we're getting real traction here. Certainly your friends and neighbors. Yeah. like still the number one show on Apple. This is working for us.ing to our own internal. This is the thing that we can run up the flagpole and say this whole Um This whole expansion is worth it We are in the business, I think, of arguing for The fact that Apple due to its deep pockets, can take a project that is completely airtight when presented to them, like Widows Bay and say, we can help We can help you execute this Because you know, we'll get a chance, I hope to talk to Katie Dippold and Har ORI about it, but I can' I would imagine that many places were interested in taking the meeting and like the idea of it. I don't know how many of them were interested in loocation shooting in Massachusetts, a place that is not famous for large scale productions or tax breaks you know, in order to get it over the finish line to get. It's probably like we have a place in Canada you can shoot as a place Yeah. we'll make it work for you. you Have you thought about setting it on an island off of Georgia? Exactly that. So Um or in the case of Star City, where it's like that's very nice of them to make a show just for us in this podcast. We really appreciate it. Yeah, I think that that's reflective of what of their strategy working right now. The flip side of that is Um This is extremely inside baseball, but in order to watch ahead one week to we could cover Woodows Bay this week because of our recording schedule, I went on their screener site And on the screener site is just these like dusty bones of shows that they've wanted us to watch or wanted people to engage with that are just memory holds They may be memory level, but many of them have four to five seasons. No, the ones that didn't. I'm saying things like Like the hilariously insane disclaimer that we covered of Qaron and Cape Lanched. Well that was never going to be like more than. Probably one of the most expensive one seasons ever, I would say, based on everyone's EP fees alone Um, the big cigar, you know, like Hike cigar Yes, this was a this was a historical show based on one of those epic magazine articles that was about like, Uh Huie Hughy Newton Oh yeah there's nothing. I'm not saying these because they're bad. I'm just saying they were like Maybe that's going to be the thing that we do. N, no problem. and you never see the retrenchment because they went all in on the wrong thing. Yes. I mean you know the The internal marketing When you look at the app, when you open up Apple TV on your like a set topop box or if you watch it looking at it on your desktop It's There's like a sort of pleasing uniformity to the design of the marketing. U that being said, I don't see a lot of like in the wild Hey, by the way, this is on But I don't know that a lot of these streamers really participate in that outside of like say, Paramount pllus who really seem to try to makeake sure everybody knows that like Dun and Rantch or whatever is on. Well like I I think that there's a lot of like kindind of like we have kind of decided to moat this stuff And what matters is the service more than the show? Well, I think that there's also internally a distinction between shows you spend on and shows you gatekeep quite literally and that that actually could be a boon to them. So the example, we're going to talk about Cape fear is getting the royal treatment from I mean, it's on, you know, wrapounds on buses and billboards and they're trying to draw people to the service based on this show A show we covered last week that we like that we liked maximum pleasure guaranteed I think it is getting the reverse treatment where It is something that for people who are already within the ecosystem of Apple They're offering it up and maybe it's an auto play when you finish a different show that they think might be Smpatico, and then it's generating its own level of interest within the ecosystem. And the argument for doing that I would say is you know, is especially for the way these tech companies budget things if they spend, you know, if they can break it down to like we've spent one million dollars additionally on top of the production fees for the first episode of Cape Fear in markarketing costs. Thus in order to recoup, it needs to make back its production costs plus this like a movie would. Yeah. you know, And again, thats all get fuzzy once you're inside of Apple's internal budgeting All that is to say Um, if they get X number of watches on a maximum pleasure guaranteed thoseose are faster return on investments and that might make them more likely to keep it going as opposed to outwardly spending on it and not seemingly recouping that investment in the outside expenditures. Okay. It's so opaque. Yes. and it only makes sense to them. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to twenty degrees hotter. Stay cool, and save up to fifty percent off custom window treatments during the fourourth of July mega saale at blinds dot com. From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. 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Shop Wayfare's Fth of July clearance now through july six at wayfare dot com d Pay fair, every style, every home I thought it was really interesting we can get into Cape Far here. that K fear very I think very wisely released in June as as summer hits as the temperatures go up as people are looking for like a Sticky, indulgent kind of High end trashy show to watch and not for the ME consideration. which just ended, I guess about a week ago. I think Voting opens this week, I believe, for the Emmys Because you would think Amy Adams, Javier Bardem, Patrick Wilson, these people would be like the the kind of person you would put forward for an Emmy award That being said, I think the show you can And we'll talk about I watchatch two Andy watchatch one. We can talk broadly about it. We don't want to like Bil things obviously is based on in some ways one central story, but is based on several different sources of material. So Cape is based on the executioners, which is a John D. MDonald novel based on from fifty seven or something, I belie. The film starring Robert Mitcham from the fifties, I believe. fifties or early sixties. early sixties And then it's also based on the nineteen ninety one Martin Scorsesee adaptation with the screenplay by Wesley Strick Um, which was like a famous kind of not cash grab for Scorsese, but like another one of his like, I'm going to prove that I am a bankable director as well as like a Um world renowned artiste of cinema And that was like a thirty five million dollars movie that wound up making one hundred eighty million dollars. It was Nick Nulty, Robert D Niro and Jessica Lang, and Juliette Lewis in the in the in the major roles And was a huge hit in as we've done it on rewatchables. as continues to be a rewatchable movie precisely because you are caught in a vice grip of tension and atmosphere, you can feel the sweat, you can feel the Twes on D Niro, you can feel the water like hitting them as they have a stamp film. Big finale. And this show is trying to do what several shows like it in the past have also attempted, which is to see if they can reliably hour to hour Release some tension and then pour it back on so the audience is continues to be engaged and continues to have the sense memory experience of watching Cape Far, which is kind of the hardest part about this show to navigate is how do you sustain this vibe for this many hours when usually the human body checks out after two hours. And you're just like, I need this to resolve itself. And it is not historically, and by historically I mean the novel and the two previous adaptations particularly complicated story. No, not really. It is really like you know, an unstoppable object running into an immovable force and then something's got to give What is your I know you've done it on rewatchables. What is your personal take on the Scorsesee movie? Because my I have not rewatched, maybe I re watchatched in the nineties when it was on cable. It's a pretty nasty m. I mean intentionally so. It's definitely we're doing on rewatchables this month, we're doing the fromrom Hell genre which is A largely like nineties based phenomenon sub genenre of thriller. basasically does the dot dot dot from hell. So roommate from hell, stepfather from hell. Nanny from hell Um This is the best posossible version of from Hell and I guess it's the thing from your past from Hell And I think this was Scorsese, you know, this had been a a thing that had been banging around Amblein and that Spielberg had considered directing himself. And Scorsese winds up doing it. famous trade, right? Yeah, this is the Schindler's list trade, right? Yeah. Yeah each were developing a project they probably shouldn't have been.. And Scorsese and Spielberg swapped Cape Far for Schindler's list. Right. And In some ways, it worked out for both of them exactly right? I would say so. because Scorsese gets to show he can make a blockbuster. in a really sincere like efficient way has so much style. And this is the thing that I was thinking about going into this TV series is that So much of Cape Fear relies on the artistry of the filmmaking because the people are relatively unpleasant to spend time with. Yes. Yeah, it's not a heroic story. And that's not a deal brereaker for me. No. But it's also not funny. So this isn't going be like succession or Breaking Bad or any other series or sopranos or Anything where you're like, boy, these are a bunch of corrupted people Let's watch them caught like mats and a rats in a maze and then see who gets out. This is like you're going to spend ten hours with these people and you're going to be forced to hope that they figure this out, you know? Yeah. And I think the nature television requires, despite M, many brilliant creators know valiantly tempting otherwise, teelevision requires some audience buy in and empathy and a very base level, maybe it's because of the time commitment. Yeah you have to want an outcome, which I think is But that doesn't reflect the best of cinema, frankly. Like the best movies keep you on your toes and you can switch allegiiances and you can question your own empathies and all that stuff. But for ten hours I'm not saying you to pick a side, but you kind of have to settle in and root for something. Right. And now so this rendition of the of the series is fromick Nick andntaska, who's a No TV show creator. who we have talked about O and off over the years, but I'm a huge fan of Channel Zero he did the act, which I was less of a fan of when I saw of it And he's done a bunch of different stuff. He as an executive producer, as a writer, as a creator. He is a very, very Good. maker of television and producer of content. I mean that a really I mean that the best, most generous way possible, and particularly because He has a real sense of what types of stories interest him and he is interested in horror in the lurid stories and the sordid stories. and from everything we understand about this This wasn't necessarily Amblyn taking generals on how they can profit from this u sitting in their cabinet. No he wanted to do this. He wanted to do this. And I think the thing that I starting with with praise because spoiler, I did not really enjoy watching the show.. I think that This is sort of all the way back to where you started, but like there is a full throated embrace of a kind of Padre summer eighties and nineties blockbuster enttertainment that is you can't half ass And I think that the That was clearly both inspiration and the goal here And I think it's why I was also compparing this maybe unintentionally at first to Last summer's version of this Maybe now it was two sumers ago it was presumed innocent which was another like, let's take something from a very specific time culturally that we remember and try to iterate it and well for the contemporary streaming era, but also try to hold on to these things that we don't really get in our entertainment anymore. Yeah. Um, I preferred presumed innocent because presumed innocent had OT F Benley's performance and Peter Sarsgard performance and it had some knowing wit And I would say that This does not seem to have that. But We can talk more broadly, and I'd like to hear your thoughts about it before I tell you what I was sort of bumping against. I think the issue for me was how the little tricks that they're playing. So I basically I would say that my my my broad take on the show is that I thought it was unnecessary Um and that it was totally make believe and I also didn't hate it. You know, like, I didn't In the opening moments, I was just like, There's basically two things that happened that I thought were like exactly diametrically not diametrically opposed. There's one thing where I was like, holy shit, this is really compelling that they're doing this. And then there was something else where I was like, I know exactly what this show is gonna to be. Do you want me to tell you those two things? Yeah, the double suicide That was when I was like, damn. Oh, yeah, it was like, okay, we're really gonna to do this. This is gnarly as hell. Yeah. And the second was the family of dead skunks in the pool It just even did the whole opening barbecue Yeah, it was Fony B. of Amy Adams walking around with airPods in and just being like, well, I want my client out of prison. How about that? And I don't know why I made him sound like made her sound like Amy Griffith, but That's not far from the dialect notion. And you know, Patrick Wilson, For reasons we will soon find out like looking like an absolute wax statue And then these kids being kids and you know, like looking at their phones and gaming and getting catfished. So what do you do when you take a like a first of all, I was about to say a beloved franchise like this? It's not. it's a cult thing. It's obsessed over. it's a specific memory for a lot of people depending on which version of it you respond to. How do you update it and why do you update it? And I would say that there is an ward collision between between the modern and the classic And it's evidenced by, as you said The sun isn't just Moody, he's losing himself in online gaming. The dad isn't just walled off and keeping secrets. he's microdosing. The daughter isn't just harassed by Max Katie. She's harassed by a rapacious crime True crime podcaster. and I think honestly, most egregious of all, in order to understand where we are in the contemporary political moment, a cultural moment, everyone talks about how bad the system is. Well, this is gota talk about the unfairness of the system. This is where I think the thread is Antasa is trying to pull. So you know, he's got a bunch of really talented directors working on this show. Morton told them director the first episode, but then SJ. Clarkson took over one, Reed Morano, Amanda Marcellus. Amanda Marcelles.'s an impressive lineup. Yeah I think he's most interested or it seems like he's most interested in asking The question is what if Max Katady got out of prison and instead of being feared and rejected, he was tacitly embraced by a emergent sccanning liberal criminal justice reform community That wants to believe the best in everybody, but wants to believe the best in everybody as long as it gets people to donate to their nonprofit or way other cause And I think that that is Um An interesting concept is not I don't know if it has like ten hours of legs as a concept And the thing that had drove me actually most nuts in this episode and the first two episodes is not the performance because CCH Pounder is incredible, but the character that CCH Pounder Noah plays Noah who is in charge of this I think it's called the SJLP and it's like a basically they go around. It's like a freedom project. They go around like trying to free, wrongly imprisoned, incarcerated I 've been false abuse crimes But she is like So blinded by the dollar signs and the press that Max Katie could bring this if they somehow figure out a way to bring him into the fold here that It' kind of just It goes beyond my suspension of disbelief. Yeah. and it's just preposterous. Well, it's One of the things that we love about Widows Bay is that from the very beginning, in the first fifteen minutes Mayor Tom Loftus communates to the guy from the New York Times that there are no cell phones on the island. And He just said it And then it's done. And then all the problems of modern suspenseful storytelling are just v They just vanish. and you can tell a story in a more familiar and classic manner And with this show, they are struggling up against the constant presence of cameras and constant presence of everyone knowing everything about everyone else all the time while also having to manufacture natural moments for Max Katie to wander into the backyard of the Bodens for them to have a little teta tet a tet in an art gallery off of the main party area of a charity ball it's kind of hard to do both, you know, like and also I think what you're responding to is the fact that like K fear is the previous Cpe peers are smaller, not just because they are either a slim pulp novel or you know a two hour movie, but smaller in the sense that Max Katie isn't a cause celeb in the way that he is on the show and probably would be in contemporary show twenty six where everything that he does is broadcast online in the news media. And I think the show does a good faith effort to bring some of that fanfare and focus to the world. but then it's also like It's a little discordant then this is the biggest thing that ever happened. And then Amy Adams is shocked that he's there in front of her, but then he also just takes the mic from her at a large public gathering wearing a beautiful linen suit, which I guess is standard DSue when you get out of the Georgia pitentiary system Um it's trying to be big and small at the same time in the way that it's also trying to be short and shocking and also long, serialize and expansive at the same time. That's a central tension that a lot of these Better shows and worse shows have fallen prey to it than this version of Cape. So the premise of the series is essentially that Amy Adams, who I think is moved into the kind of Nick Nulty role, the kind of the start star of the show, really. Amy Adams was Max Katady, who was played by Javier Bart Berdem, his defense lawyer at his trial Was it seventeen years ag? Sventeen years ago and very late in the trial She encourages him to make a plea deal to spare his life from the death sentence It just so happens that the prosecutor in that trial is played by Patrick Wilson is this guy Tom Bowoden, and they wind up gettingetting together after the trial. She's pregnant with her fiance's baby. M But then they she leaves him and gets together with Tombo and then they start a family. And they have a very successful two lawyer life where they have this huge house in Savannah, Georgia and seem to have everything that you would want in life And instead, you know, of course, when you look underneath the hood, everything is decaying and breaking and There are skunks in the pool, essentially They hide Max Katie, like the Shark from Jaws for ninety percent of this first episode. I think it's pretty effective. His introduction as a character is convincing his former mistress or girlfriend to take her own life and confess to the murders of his wife and child, which is why he was in prison in the first place. This exonerates him, gets him out. intrigues this woman Noah, played by CCH Pounder, who then wants Anna to start working with Maxskatie and bring him into the fold that this this nonprofit that they work for Um piling on characters in this show. Like within the first two episodes, Ted Levine shows up. Paul Schneider shows up You know, Jamie Hector is there like They have supperersize this thing And to your point about Cape Fear being tight and small, partart of at least my love of the ninety one film is the feeling of even though we live in a town, even though we're part of a community, even though there are laws, when you really boil it down, it's us versus him and nobody's coming to our resant. Right It's a little bit confusing and it's a little bit distracting when you have like Five different subplots going already and we're two episodes in. I was curious whether or not you are turned off by the tone of the show or the actual storytelling of the show. I actually like the tone and I think that there's an element of it that is just profoundly campy whether it is a developmental edict or just the personal taste of the people in charge, it resists it at every turn. which I found neuters Bardem's performance, which is One million percent, a delicious ham and cash grab You know what I mean? Like he's going for it and for him. He's going for it but in a different way than D Niroo and Mitch did. Yeah, I'm not but he's doing it a very it's a way that's true to him. He's not changing who he is as a performer. But I think that there is because I think what makes him always so magnetic is that he presents as this like It's certainly on camera I have no idea how tall this man actually is, but he presents this like this hulking a physical brute, but he is so sort of sly and as my kids would say, secretly zesty that like that comes out in ways that or maybe not so secretly. ways that are kind of beguiling and charismatic and sensual. And so I like all that Um I just canan't stand the half assess of The in the sense that I mean, you you have Patrick Wilson who is a very strong actor, but I think needs to be given needs to be tipped in one direction or the other can't just be Ram Rud straight with his little belt talking about cornflakes at Kroger. Like you're Having him say things like this, if you're doing the dialogue If you're doing the dialogue that the show is giving you, Let him Let him slather some extra pimento on it. You know what I mean?'t this like this it's shot so straight faced that we're meant to take all this seriously and worry about these people and the stakes are rising. And I think it's a little bit preposterous There's a puma in the backyard. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think they say puma, don't they? They say I think there was like there was a panther attack. Okay. mayaybe you're right. Well, they do say it, regardless. Um preface it and then it shows up or forehadow it So had a I had a problem with that and I just sort of had a full disclure I don't know the difference between a Pmon and a panthther. I was giving you time to look and I was like, why is your laptop? Not not to do it. I'm not going to overrely on the internet. I want to be candid with our audience that I just don't know You could tell me if Puma was just like a male panther and I would be like, maybe that's true. No, I think it would be a Pomo. We were having this conversation with Ballerinas right before we started shooting. Yes. Because Mikuel Berhnikov's daughter is on the show. But like there's these details, right that I think are just kind of ridiculous, but the show doesn't allow them to be ridiculous. L the fact that in the opening moments, Anna is sitting for a filmed interview for presumably for television. She is a television journalist, right? There's a video camer television camera on her But as soon as the action moves to the pool where a family of skunk corpses are being retrieved, the television cameraman runs out with a wide angle still camera Oh, those are actually now the four K cameras actually come like looking like a st. So he was still videoing. He didn't switch jobs in the middle of the scene. Yeah I think actually like like that's like that's a camera right there. basically a real camera Regular looking cameras. have been cameras the whole time? I thought that was a light How long has that been there? We've been on Twitch for five years dreaming you me Jankie Rondo just running twenty four seven And like the little things of like this set decoration, you know, you know, one thing that drives me crazy, this is what I look at is when you see rich people's homes and they are just full of large bowls, full of artichokes. Wait a second. I have to talk to you about this. Yes The teenage son's room, yes is in a completely different architectural concept Y than the rest of the house. and it's driving me insane. He has exposed brick Yes. and it's like a giant loft that he has somewhere else in the house. Remember the story is telling us that there's houses in constant pair and they don't re people onto another side of the house that they're constantly renovating. I don't know about where this kid's room is. Right. Did they have seven different architects work on it? Is this like a borgia story? Like what's happening? Well, also, but then the kitchen has these like palm tree wallpaper that looks like you know a now out of business W hotel in New Orleans right before Katrina. but But again, like I think you are my thing is this, you are always telling a story with every frame of the show Yeah. And the pilot makes good use of the low heavy trees enough to make me think that they filmed this in Savannah, which apparently they did not, although maybe they got some exterior, so I'm not really sure But everything is an opportunity to tell a story. and when you things in a house that just has these as you like inconsistent room to room. without committing to the bit that every member of this family lives in his or her own psychological slash physical space, which is a choice. I guess that but I could see the argument. But make the choice. so that when you're in the kitchen and over the son's shoulder when you see him taking out like energy drinks for his mystery night out On the table, there is a beautiful piece of sourdough with two slices cut and like spilling open as if you're waiting to celebrate the you know, the breakfast at this airbnb and it's been cut for you. I'm like That was a choice you made and you didn't pay attention to it. It's giving us this sort of like moneyed laziness when I want every frame to compelling and tell us the story. And we're praising the directors some of this on Let's put some of this on Morton Tildam. I don't know the man. Yeah. He makes a beautiful picture and he keeps things moving and he does seem to understand The assignment But there's an element of this, and I apologize, especially to my friends who just returned from Scandinavia but you hired a Norwegian to give us like sweaty southern funk, It's kind of like me going horseback riding, which is in the sense that I've seen people ride horses and I could probably be lifted up onto the horse. And in a still photo or two, I might look like I know what I'm doing. backrooms thing, in backrooms, there's a line about like this is like describing a dog to someone who's never seen one and asking them to draw it It's kind of that vibe. This is it is a sterile and professional recreation of something Yeah without the stengee. There's also a funny thing that I saw the vulture recapper for the show pointed out that I hadn't noticed and then immediately was like I can't unsee this now, which is the amount of times they use jump scares for no purpose whatsoever, like Ted Levine showing up or like it turns out that's just the gardener or whatever. And like they're going to do that to wear down your nerve ending so that when it actually does. Yeah. But part of the issue is that if you're going Not remove the danger, but like imagine if Max Katie actually had visiting privileges for all these places and was able to just walk in and out of prisons and people's homes and businesses The whole point of like the Cape Far movie is that he's kind of like this pariah who is Basically like, what are you gonna do about it Yes, it's everything he does is a provocation. And this is more like what if he could insinuate himself into the progressive weakness of this community Now genuinely good faith I'm curious about this. that like I think, tell me if I'm wrong because I'm not in this cohort, but like if you are a particular fan of herorror And I don't mean like, ah, what like get out, what a brilliant analogy for our tim. So I mean like I like watching people dropped into a shark tank and seeing what the sharks do next.ure. could be that kind of entertainment. There could be here. Yeah. bad stuff's going to happen and it hopefully will be happening in increasingly claustrophobic and horrific wayays. So that appeal might be there. Sure. I just I think the problem is when when you're also like and also the teenage son will go on a Kenematen journey where he sees an AI version of Max Katie's unborn teenage son When when you put it that way, by the way I'm just noting with interest. againg, I don't have a dog in this fight You brought you brought up Nepo Watch with Brishnikov's daughter You have your silence on the sun in this is remarkable to me. Who is he Winlet son She's really populating a lot of casts now now. Kate Winslet famously. big friend of the world lot Yeah basically. So whatever, she's done a beautiful job raising these talented children. Yeah. That's pretty. It's Rledton, who was recently in the last Yes thees Anderson. Yes, Phoenician scheme, is Andon. Your boy Anders, ye. Yeah. o. My boy. That's your boy You love his spline. You love gamers. I don't know whatre you're getting at I think that you're trying to build a case Neepppo wise or hard. Yeah Like I don't know. You are. You had a problem with Jane Champion's daughter being in No. I didn in Star City. I didn't. You had a you have a problem with who's I had a problem with Andy Circus's daughter being in Star City. And who's the kid who who's Evan on Widows Bay? who's his dad? What? He's a Nppo baby mayaybe not protect him at all cost. fant with like that name, I'm like. Your dad's probably Dan D Lewis or something. We I mean, I don't know if we're gonna continue watching this. I know. Sorry just spoiler. I'm not going to do. That' not the new euphoria. No, but but I am interested genuinely once in a while, maybe I'll do a little update from from Savannah, Georgia for you. I think I am going to I had such a good time watching this with my wife Yeah. It is a say more about that. Well it's a really funny show to not funny, but it is a really fun show to watch and be like, what the fuck are they doing? Now, we may not be interested in this after four hours. Right? which would be double the amount of time we've already watched. Kingston, Rumy Southwick doesn't even have a Wikipedia page, which either he's like a soft he's a soft Nppo. than God you're here. Father is producer, mother is an acting coach. No So he was just he was just primed for this. He's not Yeah I have a problem with not to do. You're the one who's like saying like I don't have a problem with that. I am a product of Net. I genuinely don't a problem it when it's good I like things to be good. is like, oh, I'm the assho When it's good, it's awesome. I think both of the Nppos in Star City are excellent. I do too. Okay Well, let's talk about Star City. Who is Pullman G great I probably your best friend Louis Pullman. Well I just you discovered I columbused him for this podcast. Yeah. T turnurns out Bill Pullman is his dad. Did you have anything else you want to say about Cape Fear? No, I just you be watching anymore of it You reject the high falutin way it cast its ranks? Y. You wish Patrick Wilson would untuck his shirt every once in a while? Yes, live a little. And it's unpleasant. think I think ultimately it's that I just find it unpleasant and I'm not particularly fans of many of the leads. that's keeping me away. but I am interested in it as a project. And so I really appreciate you going on the front lines You know what I mean? It's like Sct Pelllly said. He never wore the uniform for this country. but He's been in fox holes. That's you That's you Let's wrap things up by talking about Star City. Okay My enthusiasm for this remains Burning hot flame I'm a I do want to acknowledge at the top here So we'll talk a little bit in detail about the three episodes that have aired so far. I felt like in the third episode, I detected a rhythm where before I was like, this could be anything and go anywhere and I have no idea the vibe of the show is so intoxicating, but like you could tell me it's gonna time jump to eighty four in episode three and I believe you It's a little bit more steady as she goes in an episodeays jump, but yes, it jumps and there's also big character reveals I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Um, This is sort of random, but I saw old Quentin Tarantino in an interview this weekend, Not the one where he says The Rip is the best movie he's seen in a decade. Have you talked him about this?. I don't have those privileges. Has Seaan back channeled with him about this? I don't know. But I did know that the Rip was playing at the Vista, the movie theater he owns. He walks the talk But he was talking about the difference between storytelling and situations And you know, he was referring to the movie speed where, you know, it's like what if a bus had had to go fifty five miles per hour or to explode? And he's like, I really enjoy that movie, but it's a situation. It's not a story. L those aren't characters, those characters aren't going on a journey. It's what I mean they are literally on a mon. Yeah. But like they don't change over the course of the movie really, like that much Um I don't know whats your name learns to love Any? Yeah I don't think she was not ready for love, I just think she didn't have a driver's license because she had too many points on it I forgot about that detail. Yeah. Don't try and get any speed trivia past me When's the last time you rew watchatch spepeed within the last three years It's a frequent rewatch. I love them mo. It's an excellent movie but is it a situation more than it I'm sorry we don't need to digress. And Star City has a very like digestible situation. It's a very digestible pitch. It's, you know, what if the Russians landed on the moon first? What would happen to the collective histories of both nations, America and Russia, but also You know what would happen to the space programs that they would then go on to produce The reason I think I like this show so much is that it's a story and God they have found a group of actors and created a group of characters. where the Little revelations about the characters and the little bits of growth and the little bits of change and the little moments of epiphany or catharsis or whatever are so earned. and so well drawn. and I'm thinking of two in particular that I just wanted to bounce off you. So in episode two, Anastasia Belkova, who was the first woman to go to the moon She's on a promo tour with her arranged marriage husband Are they married yet by the time they go Paris? I't remember. No, they didn get married when they get back. Yes. withith her fiance, Sasha, who's also a cosmonaut. They go to Paris And it's cool. like, you know, it's like a cool idea and it's cool to imagine like them doing this sort of propaganda promo tour for the Soviet space program And They take the moment where they basically find that the one thing that these two people have in common is their disaffection with where they are in their life.. Even though they couldn't be more different and she's a little bit odd. And for the first You know, episode and half, you're kind of like, I don't really who this is this person like a product of nepotism because her father is a big dip wig in the party or what's going on? especially because they make the bold gambit of having her be the backup plan to Janak Matova who is a firecracker in her limited screen time in the pilot. And she winds up going on this nighttime Odyssey across Paris with her fiancee that is delightful and exciting and scary and interesting. and everything from the way that they have to exit a hotel And she takes off her heels to go down the stairs quietly to them like rununning across the street and she stops to look at the Arcta Triomph And he's like, come on, come on, but like she takes this moment to be like, holy shit. I never thought I'd see that. Especially here in Lithuania. Yes. Whoa. I think she was right to call attention to it. And then they have this like really fun night of D drug and booze adle dancing at a nightclub where she is soft recruited she thinks by the Americans, but it turns out to be a Russian agent or Soviet agent working on behalf of, you know, pretending to be an American,'s test And then in the third episode, we have Arna who is played by Agnes O' Casey, who's the protegee of woodmilla Rascova, the sort of KGB chieftain And she's been doing the lives of others listening thing on Tanya and Vala, Valia is another cosmonaut Tanya is L suffering wife who's cheating on him with Sasha And she's been listening in on them. and then it turns out surprisingly, her daughter is being taught by Tanya, She's being taught music by Tanya. and she goes over to her house for for coffee and admits something to Tanya. And in the moment where she admits it, not only is it just wonderfully played by the performers But the sound on the show becomes muddled and muted, like it's been erased. and we find out that that's because Erina's going to go back to her listening station. go on the tapes of Tanya's Listening devices and erase the part where she confesses something private and personal about her past, about the father of her child And I thought both of those moments were so earned And just like Build up It's about the space program and it's about spying and it's about national security and all these big, big ideas But they are finding story in character in a way that I think is really, really wonderful Yeah, I completely agree. And you know, there's even more detail in those scenes in the apartment where I What's her name? Areinna is seeing for the first time the physical the set of her favorite radio drama and she's smelling the perfume that she knows was purchased in Paris And she's being taken out of it, not just in the sense of like future scrubbing, but she's hearing the conversations that played in her mind only in this place. And it's really dissociating and powerful becausecause we started with Pause I love letter to NBA fandom. Sure, I need your help on this. I need you to use the sports half of your Grantland binary brain Who is the most in your opinion, maybe even in this finals? like the most And I feel like it's probably on someone on the Ks. like the most old school player who is not going to trick you and not dazzle you. Jos just going right is just going to go at you and it's going to be basketball. Josh her And that's Star City to me, especially in the third episode. where There is nothing in the mechanic. I mean, the setting and the fact that within each episode they can do a tense Apollo thirteen esque. space drama is remarkable. But even to use that as a set piece in the third episode where something goes wrong There wasn't a single moment watching the launch sequence played out over the back half of the third episode where I didn't know something was going to go wrong. Yes, especially once the one character space swims to the back to release the pressure As soon as he did that, my brain went into like the top, you know, you can like change the camera angle and I'm watching the Al twenty two. I'm mixing my sports metaphors, but I was like I know what's going to happen now because I have watched television before But I'm curious how they play it and the way they played it right down the middle and perfect withith the cuts, when you stop hearing from the back and the elation mixed with a sudden discovery and then the slow realization that something has gone wrong This is this is textbook. There's nothing particularly novel about it. It's just executed at such a high level. And I felt the same way throughout that episode where it's like let us explore story in every corner of the world that we created. because also remember It is a rare, rare opportunity for producers and TV makers to be told by a rich pocketed benefactor like Apple, Yeahah, we want more What could they have done with this, especially when the fact that the Russians job in the narrative of the other show of for all mankind is established. They're the antagonist. They're the rabbit the Greyhounds are chasing the whole time So it was kind of either plug and play or let's dive in and create rich, rich characters to make the show as much about them as possible. then put him in conflict, see what happens. it's I'm struck by how effective and Yeoman like the show is and how satisfying that can be. The sequence that you're talking about, I think is elevated by the value subplot to it Yes.. So and obviously we're talking pretty openly about this series. So if you haven't watched episode three yet. You might want to skip ahead to the next segment or end of the podcast. but It's revealed that Valia is the mole inside of Star City and that he planted Basically a transponder or transceiver on the lunar module, which winds up being detected by the Soviets So they then power down, they reboot the module, reboot it Looks like everything's going to work out Unfortunately, like the repowering of it means that the the H doesn't like the basically the extender part of it of the module doesn't go back in or it goes out too early And in trying to land the the module back with the space station that they were the whatever the craft that they They abarded the mooon landing. they're going to fly back and Asiny RAP goes back after a McBain head fake where Sasha spends most of the episode trying to figure out what he would say in a letter to his loved ones and gives one gives that one of the letters to is, you know, is aillicit affair with Tanya I thought that part was really great. You know, like the the fact that every character has like a secret life. emergent is really cool. It means that like nobody's ever fixed on a map right now. I think Perhaps the best performance on the show is Anna Maxwell Martin, who's playing Ludmilla Vaskova. and We haven't really figured out what her her bag is yet. which what she's into? Yeah like we don't know like her nuances yet because we haven't spent like a ton of time with her. She more like lurks on the, you know, like is the face in the back or the person who's just like, I, you know, I don't believe you and But I really thought that that sequence wind up being elevated by finding out that it was an act of duplicity or an act of espionage I did want to ask you something about where we are, which is three hours into the show I had a couple of Wait a second. there I forgot that we're supposed to be watching Russians. So that you know, as we talked about last time All of the characters All the all of the characters, all the Soviet characters speak in speak English Yes. And you speak English accent English English accented English And this is something that Chernobyl did. So it's not uncommon to see this. And I thought even There was a joke maybe underneath a performance where When Arsiny is talking about what he's going to say on the moon, he's basically doing Sean Conry's Hunt for R Oober accent. And I don't know if he was trying to do Sean Cone or if he was trying to do Sean, But it was a joke that landed for me. Yeah. Do you ever blink and you're like? I'm starting to forget the nationality and ethnic background of the characters that we're watching. Well, I think that that's part of the reason why it's done this way because it is a pretty quick sneaky empathy You know, IED because it's like, well, they're just like us It's like that sting song. They love their children too Whoa Um I think the interesting part was when they were in Paris and they don't speak French But no one in Paris understands them because they're speaking Russian, but it's English. And you know at least from my own personal research efforts, many people in Paris do understand English, even if they preer not to Um or the fact that when you see them Like when you see Arena, u, transcribing the recordings typing in Cyrill. So No, I think that I think that the whatever you know, prep meetings and design meetings they had were just, to my mind seem incredibly successful and incredibly aesthetically integrated. So the language and the way they speak the language works with the production design and the sets and the Just the entire aesthetic of the show is consistent for me, so it doesn't good Are you concernedrolling? it bothers you. No, it doesn't bother me. I just think that there was one moment where G, well, which episode or which scene was it? I think it was when Valia and Sasha are in the stairwell And he sort of like you're being a little boy like you're just a child, like and you're always joking around but this is serious. And for a second, I was like It's aboutout the British Air Force Like what am I watching? And I was like, o wit, that's right. yeah, these guys are cosmonauts And yes,, you know, And they they work under Soviet Russian rule. So Yeah, I think that the other thing that's been interesting about it Basically, the show seems to run towards the challenges, which is kind of like my ten thousand foot almost de facto praise these days where it's like, well, this is this is where the fences are in the world that they've been given this is what they've been granted. So what do they do with it? And I think some of the interesting cultural and character based nuance has come from the moments that we haven't seen yet when Belakova's father shows up and the way he treats her. the references to Erinna's bad marriage, the things that are happening outside of Starsity contribute to the idea that though someome characters like like Valiia's wife, who's Tanya, Tanya you know, chafing against the limitations within Star city dance. Dreams of Moscow and to listen to records, you know, really just like us. It's a really cool detail that she's getting contraband or single smuggled in on x rays. Yeah, that can only be played four times before they degrade. Yeah That's pretty cool.. My favorite The Powered solo album was also issued only on X ray that could only be played four times, but Sorry you missed I invited you over to listen to it But yeah, like there's levels to this society that Star City isn't some achievement and within its walls, everything is possible, that Star City is an exemplar the best and the worst of a larger society and a lar larger society is knocking at the door in various ways So I feel immersed. I mean, it's an excellent show and it is a remarkable pressure valve that it has that if it starts to feel a little too kitchen sink potboard. to the moon. They can just fucking go to the moon. Yeah. And when I was watching that moon sequence, I was feeling something that is probably baked into every frame of the seasons of for All Mkind that I haven't watched which is man It's cool to see something in which space travel is really hard and really scary not, you know, ah, time to take the cruiser to Naboo or whatever Time to take the cruiser Naboo. We can wrap it up there. Thanks to Ka and Kaya. for producing today and we'll be back on Thursday. I will be half gone. So we're going to talk about Widows Bay together But then Andy, we willll have the con. Do you think you'll wear the same clothes on Thursday when we talk about Widows Bay? Becauseuse I was planning to. I was going turn everything inside out. S see you guys on Thursday