Sports Debrief and Outro

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms . I need support staff to clear the room . Stand up and walk now . Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio and he was a boy from school. It's Eddie Greenwall! That was a hot chip reference. What's up, brother? You looking good today. You're looking good today. You know what this is actually the two genders, except we're one g But like, you know, like it's two ways to wear the same literal same outfit. We're both wearing jeans, yeah, and a denim shirt today. It was unplanned. Um I don't really know what to do about it. I guess I could take mine off and We rarely have things in common, so this does really strike me as odd. You are, for those not watching along um on the video feeds. Yes. You are also continuing to wear a Phillies hat, which is wild , because I would like to state on the record before we get into our table of contents today that since you declared that the baseball season is irrelevant until game sixty. The Phillies have not won a game. Yes. They have been in absolute catastrophic free fall since you announced I I we have a whole segment to do at the end, uh watch after dark, which comes after Top Chef After Dark, uh , which will be largely about Philadelphia sports and where I need you to be. Okay. I need you to put a fucking jacket on and join me on the ice. Um but I will say this: Joel Embiid seen practicing. Yes. Uh Mike Vrabel's infidelity, possibly torpedoing the AJ Brown trade. I think now is the time to strike and have a coup against Bill. I was gonna say this is when I take over rewatch. He's weak. This is actually Simon is weak. This is Putin's whole strategy. Do you understand? He knows he has a smaller, less rich country, but he sees the long game. He's like little finger and what he does is he just chip chip chips away and the next thing you know. He kisses me full on the mouth and goes, I knew it was you. No, he just shows you your new office on the fourth floor. Wait, is that like like lockjaw? No. Oh yes. No. Generally with Putin if you run afoul of him. Just to do make sure the windows lock. And don't touch doorknobs. Um Greenwald, great to see you, man. I haven't said this in a while, but you can email us at the watch at spotify.com. We've been getting some cool emails. I'm gonna collect some for a mailbag coming up soon. I think we should get all kinds of questions in this mailbag. I'm tired of being limited to like what are we? Oh, Ask Us Anything? What are the five best prestige TV shows? Come on. Ask us anything. Mailbag incoming. I think it's time to be more free with our take. The watch at spottify.com if you want to email us anything. Um consider it our substack. You know what I mean? Sure, man. Uh and then Instagram is the watchpod underscore. You can watch us on YouTube at the ringer-tv. Rob Mah oney put up a really lovely video essay about the pit that our guy Kai Grady worked with him on. So shout out to them, shout out to Prestige TV, who are also covering beef in increments. They're doing three, three, three, I believe, or three, three, two, or however they're doing it. Um we're gonna talk about the first five episodes of Beef today. Yeah. Beef season two. I can't wait. I would like to say something in the in the spirit of accountability. Okay. I believe that I was uh rather flippant in my like beef got bad reviews and I don't want to watch it. Shame on me. Shame on me. For one one thing for this, it's impossible to really I I don't believe the numerical system people have established, the metacritic numbers or whatever, to say this is getting this meta score or whatever. I believe beef is doing fine with the critics. But you know what? It's doing better than fine with me. Yeah. And it just goes to show you, do your own research. If you've learned anything over the last six years. You know what I appreciate? You taking a page from your heroine Lori Chavez Dereamer's playbook. And when stories were swirling , you were like, you know what? This is untenable. I have to address these things. Yeah. And remove myself. I'm stepping down before uh before the ethics committee gets to me. Yeah. I mean the other response was you could have sued Rotten Tomatoes. Yes, that's true. But you know what? Like I I think I think there are things to critique about this season of beef, but uh I'm excited to talk to you about it. I had a couple of news items for you. Okay. One is a real like, I don't know if I want to do this top the show because I need it to be safe space.com to do it. But um obviously some Michael Mann extended universe stuff in the news this week. First of all, yes, I did see Meram Donnie quote heat.. Look What's your comment at this time? I couldn't be happier. Like if that guy w ever wants to go get a cup of coffee and stare at each other and say, I do pods, I do what I do best, you know, like whatever he wants to do. Here's the thing. I want to put this out there. There is a non-zero chance that he is a rewatchables listener. Well, there's a non-zero chance also. Like he he's available. Like this guy knows how to reach the people. He did side talk, like he's done Adam Friedland, like he you think this is his next stop in his media tour? Oh yeah. I mean like uh whatever, wherever he went to the case. He knows where to He's probably gonna do do like uh a Rob Mahoney video essay on the pit. This is how we need to fix healthcare. I would I would love that. I think that's very exciting, and I think that we should make this happen because you're you know how TMZ just recently announced they are going to DC? Yes. They they are in DC. I think this is this is a good next move for you guys. I think that this is the next world you need to conquer because Democratic socialism? Sure. Whatever you want to call it. I'm I'm just saying I think that like the merging of these worlds because you you notice that there are people that occasionally pundits online, like a Matt Iglesias or something will be like I would like to be third chair on JMO, you know? Like I think that this is all possible for you. So we should just bring in the political pundit class. Is what you're saying. Aaron Powell I think that there is a hist there there is precedent for with rewatchables when certain like celebrities or actors are fans, they have made appearances or they've talked about it, you know. So I think why not Senator Chris Murphy? You know what I mean? Why not? He was he was here. I think he did press box. I mean th these guys are in the mix. Maybe they should do like a car wash where they do like press box, they do rear tailgate, they can hear Joel's wrestling story and then they can come back. Then they can show up with a blue Oxford shirt. And just be like, Are we sure beef's good? I mean Are we sure? What is their truest form? The sad thing is we're all the same age now. Yeah, I know. Seriously. It's fine. Um anyway, in the man universe, I just wanted to say that I I have clocked the fact that Joseph Kaczynski's um much talked about Miami Vice adaptation or reboot is going to be called Miami Vice 85. Oh yeah. I need a a trait kit because I'm choking on it. This is absolutely ridiculous. Uh I am so excited that he is going to bring his very, very, very polished like the true heir of Tony Scott's like kind of like slick slick Hollywood filmmaking and that he is going to neon the the fuck out with eighty five or maybe he's got a different vision of nineteen eighty five I think this vision, whatever it is, is going to be seen through slated blinds at midday. Yeah. And I think it's actually pretty smart to not try to outmodern the Michael Mann , you know, feature version of Miami Vice , which has kind of like you know become like a bit of a modern cult classic. This is you in the hot dog suit wondering wondering who's responsible for this. Responsible for this. Um there's a part of me. There's a part a small part of me. Which part? That I can't tell if it's my head or my heart. So maybe it's my my my trachea. It's there's a part of me that is as if not more excited for this than I am for heat too. Wow. Thank you for sharing this here. Because heat two still feels like speculative to me. Like it still almost feels too real, too crazy to be real that they're gonna do this, that they're gonna do a globe-trotting crime epic with two of the biggest, best actors alive and a crazy supporting cast if rumors are true. This Miami Vice 85, Austin Butler is Sonny Crockett, Michael B. Jordan is Ricardo Tubbs. I don't think that those Tom Cruise rum rumors about him playing the villain are real. Uh but crazier things have happened in this in this little world of ours. So I don't know. I mean you you have do you ever watch Miami Vice the show when it was on in the eighties, not in the eighties, but have you ever watched it? I've watched it sparingly. I have it was I don't know if it was the same thing in your house, but it was illicit. Yes. It was watch it through a crack in the door kind of stuff. Or if you had a sleepover with friends who had a more liberal uh sleep schedule. Just like sitting around holding hands in the dark, in their gremlin sleeping bags, being like, this is the best one. Yeah. Um it's a who's who of character actors, guys. Uh yeah, or or you did you ever you know what the big thing was? This is very generational, but I bet Senator Chris Murphy will get the reference. There was always like the one friend who had a TV in their room or that they could wheel into their room for sleepovers. Yes. Then you could watch. Did you ever have the kid who had the TV come out of the floor or come out of like the half wall? I heard about those kids. Dude, I knew a kid had that. God damn. That took like five minutes for the thing to rise, but it was worth it. Every minute you were just like fucking. Yeah. Man, that was those are exciting times. I think that this movie sounds fantastic. I think maybe the other thing you're responding to, potentially, is that calling it Miami Vice 85 really seems like they're going to be done Yes. Whereas Heat 2 is the movie that Michael Mann is going to make next, which is of great interest, but increasingly with this castless and you say a global what is a global crime rom It feels less connected to what made the original special and maybe more a celebration of which I'm not sure. I am a huge fan of the last two Joseph Kaczynski movies. Yeah. And I I think that he will bring he will infuse this with an energy that I'm very interested to see. Michael Mann like is my Jesus. So I won't doubt him. But like I I I I just wanna see some set photos where I wanna see like, yep, we're rolling in and this year. You know? Okay. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That was very vulnerable. Thanks, yeah. That's why I wore this shirt. The only other thing I had for you today was that uh I saw an announcement that Paramount is going to get behind a series adaptation of another cult classic, honestly. James Mangold's um, I believe early 2000s. Um God, what year was that? I think it's earlier than that. I think it was nineties . Nineteen ninety seven. James Mangold's nineteen ninety-seven crime drama Copland. Let me set the scene for you. A young, young fellow, no TV in his room, goes to the mailbox to get the hot off the press issue of Movie Line magazine, where in addition to a scorching interview with someone who was in probably body of evidence or something, there was like literally there was a little piece about how Sylvester Stallone is gonna, you know, dust off his acting boots and really give it a go. Well, he did. And it is one of my one of my favorite crime dramas of that decade. Is it? Oh, yeah. I remember. Harvey Kaitel, Robert Patrick, um briefly Edie Falco. Yeah. And Stillone. Very dramatic ending, if I remember. Yeah. It's just fantastic. Anyway , this is actually a film to series adaptation that I think makes sense because for people who don't know, the concept of Copland is essentially a town in New Jersey that a bunch of New York cops have essentially taken over as their like soft retirement home slash place from which they do nefarious business. And Sylvester Stallone's character is the cop who polices cops, but not very aggressively. Like he's part of a kind of you scratch my back, I scratch yours. And he is he is deaf? He's he's lost hearing in his one ear, yes. Um and a cop who has to police cops is a good log line for a TV show that lasts multiple seasons. Yeah, especially because it comes with a setting. Like a town that runs by a different set of rules. Yes. Now you don't have to set this in New Jersey to New York, although that was definitely like the the sense of place in Copland is one of the major draws of it. It's so evocative of those towns when you get over the George Washington and you're driving south and you're just kind of like, what's going on over there? What's going on over there? And these are all like these kind of commuter towns that are very and even like the way New Jersey is kind of set up where it's like everything is like a village or a township. Yeah, and in order to turn, you have to turn right and then loop back around. We never got to the bottom of that. Do you think Copland voted for Mikey Cherrill for governor. Can I mean can I ask you that something? Do you think it would be better if we have more shit like that in Los Angeles instead of like the death race two thousand that is left turn on yellow? Yeah. Yeah. Do any follow-ups? No. I mean I just I just think we could we could do some interesting stuff here with with driving if we ever had the wherewithal. I think the problem here's what I blame most in Los Angeles. It's the groundlings. I think that there is a culture of improvisation that has leached from the feeder st theaters to Saturday Night Live into people's approach to traffic. Aaron Powell And this analogy, what's the feeder theater? Aaron Powell Well any improv theater. Because I watch someone just y you mean like people's driving has become more and more free jazz. Yes. Who is like responsible for that? I think it's the culture of everybody being like, I'm looking at Google Maps. I saw someone today turn left to get here where we are at at lovely Spotify in downtown Los Angeles. It was the most impressionistic left turn I've ever seen. It was like Monet looking at water lilies for the first time. There we were on that bridge turning off. And there were four cars coming and there's no signal. So normally what one does when one has an arrow that it's allowed is one waits for the oncoming traffic to cease.. Yeah Not only did they turn in front of those cars, they then started to turn more to delay the impact of those cars, as if if they just took a little more time, it would get them there. It's it's tough out there. It was like watching Will Farrell in nineteen ninety three. Trevor Burrus, but you know, the reason why I bring this up is I was thinking about some you know Cape Fear coming soon on Apple TV, which I think will be an extended version of like the story we know and love of of Max Cady. Um presumed innocent from a couple of years ago or t a year or so ago on Apple TV, essentially expanding a very taut two-hour thriller . That's not ordinarily what I go for when it comes to these kinds of like big screen to little screen adaptations. But something like Copland, which obviously I'm drawn to anyway, because of the subject matter and because of the original treatment of it, if Mangold's involved, I have a lot of belief. The other uh creative involved is the old man creator Robert Levine. I think that like that's just like a really smart way to make a cool TV show. Now you could just definitely like dial it up as mayor of Kingstown too and just kind of have it be like guys walking in rooms. It'll probably be pretty decent either way. But I I like the thinking here. Yeah, I do too. I also like you concern trolling TV shows about men walking into rooms. I mean it's well it's all we got. Yeah, right. They haven't figured out a better way to make TV, but let me know. No, I mean Lioness, there's a woman in the room. Sure. So you got that. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing somet hing, like a last-minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for. That's when Prime's same day delivery as you're back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas. Terms apply. Should we just talk about beef? Yeah. Did you have anything else you wanted to bounce off me? You said you had a question for me. I think it's I think considering my long disquisition on left turning, I think we should just get into our show. Sure. I mean it's your show too, man. You can you can call an audible if you want. I work better within a structured offense. Let's talk about beef. Okay, so not unlike the first season, where I think I went into it and was a little bit like, what do we got here? What's on what do we got on our hands? And then found myself just completely enamored with it and and talked to Sonny and Jake from behind the scenes on the show at one point for the podcast. And we should say Lee Sung-jin, who is the creator of the show, goes by Sonny. And Jake Schreyer, who uh I think believe these two are now collaborating on the X-Men adaptation, which is pretty big deal. This is three years after the first season. This is an anthology show. So the concept of beef is one I think we can interrogate and what unites these two seasons is I have not revisited the first season obviously, but I'm curious to know if you drew any connective tissue to the other two. Obviously, um Sunny takes the idea of an inciting incident and and really explores the studio space with it because from this inciting incident, so many different things kind of get brought into this whirlpool of distress, right? This season, uh, the new installment tracks the collision between two couples uh working in and around a high-end country club called Monte Vista, which I believe is like set in in like in Santa Barbara, I believe. Santa Barbara County. Okay. And then uh the one couple, Josh and Lindsay, are in their 40s, played by Oscar Isaac. Excuse me, Lindsay's 39. That's a plot point. Uh Josh and Lindsay who are i in and around their forties. Uh they w live in Ohio uh and work at this uh country club. Lindsay not so much. She's hoping to be brought on as an interior designer. Josh is the general manager. There's another couple, Ashley and Austin, who are far lower on the totem pole in uh at the job the the job totem pole at this country club. And uh actually Austin is hoping to catch on as a trainer of some kind at the club. And one night they witness in the first episode a, fight between Josh and L indsay, uh a volcanic fight that um they surreptitiously record um and then use as tacit, then explicit blackmail over the first couple of episodes Then the show explodes and the show goes in a hundred different directions, but not I don't mean that in a messy, unplanned way. I think what I wanted to talk to you about first with this show is we talked we we did five episodes. So we've a couple more. We can maybe hit that on Monday if you'd like to. But like what are some broad headlines about this season for you so far? As I said to you last night, call me liver king the way I'm loving this beef. This may be my show of the year so far. Wow. I loved it. I was completely, completely riveted and engaged with almost every aspect of it. Excited to talk about in detail why I'm excited to talk about some of these performances, but I was specifically thinking about what Sonny has done here and what he's established across two seasons. And I think that he is one of, if not the best example, of of a television auteur. What he is capable of doing within the Netflix model is remarkable. I wish it wasn't unique, but it is rare in that he is able to tell a sprawling, but I think very focused thematic story across multiple episodes that has the necessary propulsion to keep you clicking, to keep you watching television, but doesn't ever feel because we've been bumping up over the last few weeks against a lot of pilots, a lot of new series that feel like, well, that kind of could have been a movie or that kind of is going to be best expressed over five seasons. It's in the wrong box. He is a master at this specific size box, and that is not a small thing. The second thing I was feeling as I was watching and loving these episodes was I was trying to think about why this I found this so appealing because as you and longtime listeners know, I tend to be drawn to smaller studies that capture the minutiae of daily life. For example, well, you for you will spend a night watching a horror film in the theater, and I will spend a night watching the taste of things. One of the most charming and beautiful French films of recent years about sumptuous cooking in the nineteenth century. We can only be us. Elite Juliet Binoche performance. It's on Hulu now . The thing that I love about beef that really crystallized at some point, I believe it's in it might have even been in the first episode. I did watch them pretty stacked on top of each other. Yeah. When the characters are scrolling, when the characters are Googling, when the characters are WhatsApp and texting and Instagram messaging and then going into recently deleted, the way they are living their lives online on a show. I realize that first of all, interiority, as I love or as you know, generally we love in novels, is extremely exterior these days. Yeah. We perform interiority all the time in our daily lives, whether it's the pictures we post or whether it's the the wellness journeys we embark on, or even just bringing everything up in either actual therapy or therapeutic talk, like the business of interior lives is about making that external. And I feel like Sunny has really captured that moment in a way that it feels artful and true. And specifically, there's a moment early on, and then we can get into the specifics. But early on in this in the season, Carrie Mulligan, who I think is brilliant always and incredibly so in this ep in this series, is toggling between conversations and Googles and Life Choices the way we all do. And she's reaching out to an old flame and then blocking the old flame and then engaging with someone else, which causes her to go back and unblock the old flame. And the immediacy of her emotional decision making is so dysregulated, but also so available to her that that then finds its match in the way these characters bounce off of each other like super l radical free electrons in this um fishbowl of contemporary society. You're really tapping into something there. Cause it's also the thing that I think maybe um at some points makes my skin crawl when I watch it. Yeah. It's intense. You know, not necessarily because I I prob ab ly 'cause I recognize it in myself, but you know, there's often this trope about like, well, would digital uh would cell phones or would smartphones ruin this movie? Yes. And we're often like, yes, diehard would be five minutes long if people could text, you know? Um it's strange to watch a show feel native to that in a really, really perceptive way. So much of the deception , um the betrayal in this show is fueled by or the mechanism it's it's expressed through is deleting text messages is, you know, like basically that kind of almost digital forgery that goes on if you are in an untrusting relationship or any kind of relationship. And there's like, you know, to what extent are people's phones they're an extension of their own you know, personal private thoughts. And to what extent are they just a piece of like tracking so machinery that is following your wants and impulses. And you know, it's not like this is a digital surveillance show, but a lot of what goes wrong for these characters happens because people have fucking computers in their hands all the time. And it is not an impediment to the storytelling. It is often the source of storytelling. Yeah. W w one thing that we I think that we celebrate whenever we see it is when we can recognize, even without behind-the-scenes interviews or access to the showrunners, moments when it felt like they had painted themselves into a corner and they were like , actually, this is this challenge is an opportunity. Everything about this show flows from the reality of what they carry in their pockets. The video doesn't happen if they don't have it that way. The seething jealousy of other people's lives that fuels everything all four of these characters do in different social strata wouldn't happen if they didn't have this in their pocket all the time. They are living, you know, we we we've often talked about how like it's hard to break through as a TV show because you 're competing against everything that's ever been made all the time. And this show is about how it's almost impossible to be alive when you're competing against every other person who's alive and has ever been alive. Yes. And how do you stay within your own life? So it is use the word native. I think this show is native to our time in a way that feels very, very exciting and gets the details right in the sense that you you know the creators are being observant in the way that uh Austin tosses out the word late stage capitalism as if it was something that had been on a high shelf and he had just recently reached and f taken it down the way that when um and Austin is played by Charles Melton who is incredible. And I can't wait to talk about it by Kayleigh Spainey, who I think is remarkable in this. The four leads are astonishing in this. When Lindsay and this sentence alone is going to give you a sense of the show if you haven't watched it yet. But when when Lindsay and um Oh my god, I'm blanking on Oscar Isaac's character's name. Josh. Josh are driving looking for their missing dog named Burberry. Uh she says in the middle of her, you know, absolute anxiety spiral, oh uh childish gambino just shared My Next Door post. My next door post . And uh when they go to a rescue and they say something about like I saw Gambino's post and he's just like, hey, he's a nice guy. The sp specificity it would be different if they were like Donald Glover shared it. Yeah. That even in that small line, it communicated to us their relationship with celebrity and the people that they do or don't know and how intimate they are with them. Every moment is considered in a way that I found really thoughtful and exciting. Yeah, I I think that there's when I'm watching this show, I have basically and I I'm curious whether you ever do this with this or other series. You're having essentially the front this this sort of superficial visceral experience of like anxiety and or just tracking the various threads. And I should mention at this point that very quickly into this show, Josh, who, you know, essentially his identity is being the general manager of this country club. The country club is uh taken over by um a Korean company run by someone named Chairw Chairwoman Park. Played by Oscar Winner, Yun Yu Jun. That's right. And it's awesome. She is fantastic. And uh it brings in like a whole other element to the show, which involves like her husband, uh who's played by the legend Song Kang Ho. Yes. Parasite and memories of murder, one of my favorite actor s alive, and he's just He plays a plastic surgeon working in Seoul, uh, who loses a patient, and that is in its own sense like a triggering uh event for the entire series. And uh Eunice, who's uh uh Cherwin Parks assistant, is also a very important character, but it blows out of the doors of the Oi Country Club into a kind of much bigger canvas. So you're watching it and you're tracking it and you're kind of like analyzing all of the like, oh, this document was left out on somebody's table, so they saw it, and it's there's a lot of um embezzlement stuff going on. And then there is like the other part, which I think I'm much more into, which is thinking about beef rather than necessarily watching it. I don't find this anxious or uncomfortable to watch at all. Maybe it's not my favorite show of the year, but it's probably the smartest show of the year. And I think it has the most to say. And I think it it's it's the deepest so far. You know, like and maybe that should be that all alone should make it the best. But I think that see ing these three couples at various stages of their life, essentially like late 20s, late 30s, early 40s, and then much older, like senior citizens, essentially. Well, the chairwoman is 20 years older than her. 60s, right? Late 50s? Chairwoman? The actress is approaching 80. Right. And the and and her husband is uh 50s. You say chairwoman's much older than her husband. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Yes. So the chairwoman is approaching eighty, but the the husband is probably in his 50s, but in any case, much older than Josh and Lindsay. Um, and the way the show kind of depicts love getting corrupted, no matter what age you are, depending on your economic s situation and also love getting corrupted regardless of your economic situation. You know, that there is essentially this coarsening, brittle and brittling thing effect that happens to Trevor Burrus, this was a hallmark of the first season as well, which is that the show escalates and then asks what comes next. We've talked about this came up in our industry conversations, I think, recently, and when we were thinking about the way characters fight on that show and then the types of and in relationship actually to the way characters fight on or fought on succession. And one of the things that was remarkable about succession was that when Tom and Shiv went at each other, it felt apocalyptic. And then the show wasn't afraid to say the day after, what happens in the smoking ruin? How much more is there to bomb? What is what remains alive? And the thing that that Sonny does so well is he pushes his chips in on these fights that can, you know, the smallest piece of kindling can ignite them between the characters. But that the the the fight that begins the series is immediately spun into something else. Where Lindsay is like, oh, you know, if you ha if you don't have fights like this, then you're hiding something, which plants a seed in Austin's mind about what what honesty is worth and how it's expressed in relationships. And it allows us to see a little bit further in the emotional journey of these characters as they get more increasingly caught up in these like Byzantine plot elements that are compelling and beautifully stacked on top of each other, but the show doesn't succeed or fail on the back of them, which is something that I really, really like. It succeeds and fails on its continu ing emotional archaeological dig of these people, all of whom who are given the full sweep of personhood and all of whom are can be both buffoons and um victims in equal measure. Do you think that when characters are as well drawn as this and are given to use your words the full suite of personhood, it kind of obviates the need to have the do you like these people conversation? I hope so. I think yeah, I think it's a great question to ask. And I find it I mean I find that to be s the most boring question you could ever ask about art. It is, but I do think that there's something to the durational experience of watching television where you have to like at least spending time with them. You don't necessarily have to want the guy to be your babysitter, but you want to see them over and over and over again. And partly because they are they can be competent in ways that are compelling. They can be charming in ways that are entertaining or funny often, which is something that the show is able to do quite well. But the other thing that keeps you coming back, and I think kept people coming back to succession, not just from a baseline like kill the rich attitude, but from a, oh my God, that excruciating moment of vulnerable humanity is pretty relatable. And it kills me that someone I hate, like Kendall or you know, or or in this case Josh, is also capable of that moment. Yeah. That's what the best shows do, and that's what the show is to me is is doing through five episodes. There uh in what I've read about the making of this season, it sounds like Sunny wrote very specifically for the people who he cast. So not necessarily originally because, I know that others had been in the mix for the show. I mean, you would you had mentioned And rarely rarely, you know, hit lists or wishlists get leaked or get announced. The first stories about Beef Season Two said that the four actors were circling the parts and it was Kayleigh Spaney and Charles Melton and Jake Gyllenhall and Anne Hathaway who I think would have been phenomenal in this. And I actu ally think Jake Gyllenhaal would have been better than Isaac Oscar Isaac, an actor who, you know, in cold I like more, but we can talk about that specifically. I disagree with you about that. I think I'm a little bit warmer on the Oscar Isaac performance here than you are. I d I wonder what it is you think what wh why do you say that? Okay, so my there's certain things that you can just tell like I you can I don't know if you can tell, but like Charles Melton is incredible in the show. He is so, so good at doing something that a lot of actors st struggle with, even great actors. Gosling is good at this too, being um dumb in putting that in qu otes, but also somehow soulful. Yeah, Brad Pitt's a band the master of that. It's but this is this part is Brad Pitt's performance in Burn After Reading, but with the humanity filters set slightly differently. He is kind of buffoonish, but he also weeps when a bee dies in their apartment, um, which tells you a lot about him, both good and bad. Um I think, and I think that like little decisions too just suit and flatter the actors. Like I think Carrie Mulgan is amazing in I think everything I've ever seen her in. I think she's one of our best actors. This the decision to let her be British in this is so crucial. Aaron Powell What she said is I knew that it would require this performance was going to require a degree of improvisation that would just be much easier if I wasn't also worrying about accent and dialect. Trevor Burrus So we don't know what the original conception of the character was, but adding in certain details about her life before Josh and about dating a royal being photographed in the Daily Mail, being posh, and then finding herself in circumstances that her friends back home will probably all heart on Instagram, but the reality of which is a lot more diminished than people might realize is pitch perfect. I I love Oscar Isaac. He's i as long as we've been doing this podcast, he's we've talked about him like one of our favorite actors, which which he is . I find him less he's so good and uniquely good at being nebbishy. I mean, inside Lewin Davis is a masterpiece. But there's something about his presentation and his physicality And he looks super ripped and good and healthy. And I know that's part of like the OHI lifestyle and presenting as someone who can hang with the rich people and Benny Blanco and Michael Phelps as he does in the show. But it is slightly, to me, makes his neediness and his vanity and his weakness impenetrable. Trevor Burrus There's also, I think, it's important to note that that character is kind of living in a state of suspended animation where he's still like trying to get like the sickest stereo set up, you know, and and has sports memorabilia all over his man cave, you know, and is like kind of like I am gonna preserve this version of myself and and I think that that explains also like why he looks the way he looks. Like he's trying to stay as long as he can in his child like his his best version of his body. And th it does track that like people who are rich and successful and famous wouldn't they would bring him along because he looks the part, even if he can't play fully the part with his finances and and everything else. I this this is just a it's it's a minor note because when he and Carrie Mulligan are going at each other, he's exceptional. When he's sort of looming over Kaylee Spanish and threatening her and stuff like that. The perform the granular details of the performance are spectacular. But there is something like when I see Jake Jillen Hall on screen, I don't trust him. Like I just I and I think that's a key part of some of his best performances going back to what you know I, briefly briefly thought was a masterpiece of television, presumed innocent. But that is something that he knows how to use. Even in like the Spider-Man movie he was in. You're like he's he's using his charisma, but you there's something spoiled there. That it was Hathaway and Jillian Hall because c learly Sunny has like an eye for pre-existing chemistry between performers. And they've they've been in a at least one film that I can think of before. Uh Mulligan and Isaac have played um across from each other in Drive and in Lewin Davis and obviously are very familiar with each other as performers and I think it works really well. And on the flip side of it, Spainy and Melton I think have this kind of like perfect vibe of like I can't remember how long they're supposed to have been dating for, but they 're a year and a half. But they're fianc they're they're engaged and it has that like a lot of the show is about what does marriage mean? Mm-hmm. And what what is your duty and what is your sense of loyalty to somebody made out of? Aaron Powell And do you lift each other up or do you weigh each other down? Sure. I mean, I think that that that inevitably happens in every marriage, but like the the sort of bonds that people have and the like the how they want to define each other through their relationships is really fascinating. The so we'll talk a little bit more specifically about the epis odes now. The first two I I don't really have a ton to say about. We've kind of set them up as these inciting incidents. It's important to know that Spainy's character actually has a medical issue with her uh ovary that is gonna need surgical attention at some point, but she doesn't have the money. She doesn't have health insurance because of her current status at the country club, uh how she's working. She uses this black male footage to sort of start to attain more and more status , both up the chain of of command at the country club, but just getting financial and benefits, financial benefits. And to me, the series really takes flight in episodes three, four, and five. Mm-hmm. I agree. Uh three features um a wonderful uh escapade of Carrie Mulligan's character and Oscar Isaac's character. Have long thought of starting a B and B and then they decide they want to start a B B and B, which is a bed, bath and barn. And in the barn they would hold concerts because they've they they remembering going to see hot chip at the Hollywood Bowl this or L C D sound system at the Hollywood Bowl. I also that exact dream that they have floated above Los Angeles like a giant thought balloon out of every house on the east side during COVID. Like that is so we could move to Palm Desert and Queens of the Stone Age could play there. Yeah. Um and they go on this uh sort of fact-finding mission uh to to see like another couple's version, very similar version of their their idea and just immediately let their dream die. Like as they walk through the realities of what they would have to do, but also the the scale at which they would have to be successful and who they would be competing against and who they would be competing against and how difficult that would be. I even thought that the the way that so Josh texts Troy, who's played by William Fickner, the great character actor, who's the sort of alpha of the country club in terms of rich guys, and is like, you know, we're thinking about doing this. And instead of being like, yes, I'll invest, he's like, you should meet my friends who are doing it already. And uh it's just such like a perfect, like that's how a dream gets d killed is with the one person not showing any interest and telling you by the way someone else is doing this already. Uh I just love that whole episode. And then that episode culminates with a great fight between Austin and Ashley. That ends with her jumping out of a moving vehicle. Shout out Lady Bird. Uh, and then she winds up in the hospital and her medical condition in the C in episode four is this harrowing, like other side of the pit adventure where she, you know, is got this huge deductible. Josh comes in. And she doesn't understand what deductibles are. It's a great question. Yes. And Josh comes in off ers to help her, but only if she shows him that she has deleted or is deleting all of the backups of the video in the cloud, which again is this sort of like three layers of mistrust and and everything as attached to you know all these digital devices that we have is that nothing is ever really deleted. And a lesser show would run from that. Either because the creators are old and don't know that things And there's all this stuff happening while they're in the hospital waiting room waiting for Ashley to be seen , seemingly thermer injuries from falling out of the car. But really, like what's really coming is this the the ovary situation is kind of coming to a head. Is that there are these text messages between uh Austin and Eunice, Turbo Parks assistant. There is Austin being somewhat terreptitious about his designs on becoming a unlicensed physical trainer for the club. But then Ashley is also responding to these text messages and then deleting all of them. And then Eunice is responding when Austin sees the phone to text messages that he hasn't sent to his mind. So it gets very, very not convoluted, but like kind of complex when it comes to the ways people are communicating and the fact that Josh kind of holds medical attention ransom for Ashley is a final straw, she she has to go into emergency surgery. They have to remove an ovary. And at the end of that, she's like, I will have my my revenge in this life or the next. And winds up uh releasing unintentionally, perhaps, uh Josh and Lindsay's dog and that leads to my favorite episode of the the series so far, which is five, where Lindsay has to spend an hour looking for Burberry while Josh goes to play with hot chip. At a chalet in Utah off of a private jet. Episode four, we should note uh Jake Sreier does a brilliant job directing the first episode, and I believe he came back for the finale of this season, but Sonny directs four is four. It is a Lynchian fantasia in a way that is not annoying, which I think is worth noting. Yeah. Because it is a very challenging tone to strike where you can have uh you can have y you know, d silly jokes and humor, like not in that episode, but like Austin Austin thinking that that uh invoices written for M I S C MISC is a misspelling of mist and he imagines that someone named Marta is providing mist for the club every morning. Um but also have like kind of creepy, kind of funny, just very unnerving glimpses of healthcare crises in Ventura County all at the same time. And then these just constant um subtle's not the right word, but appropriately rhythmic beats of the show's thematic drum, where like um Ashley does not know how healthcare works because she's never had it before. And in fact, the strongest opinion , yeah. Sorry, the strong health insurance, but the strongest opinion she voices at least through five episodes is the f preference Gator ade flavor preference. That's that's what she feels the most strongly about anything. The whole Gatorade thing is ki killed me. In in her life. It's remarkable. Did you ever feel I don't know It's like what does he say in my professional opinion? The quench is the same? Yeah, the quench is the same. Did the There are very funny jokes in this uh season. Did any of it ever take you out? I wondered like there's a moment when because the one question I had is the latest criticism that I'm gonna offer, because I think ultimately I don't believe this to be true, but there were a couple moments when it felt like the characters, particularly Ashley and Austin's um intelligence level, toggled um based on how good the joke might be. Whereas Austin is sort of the the golden retriever sweet, not so smart guy and thinks Misk is missed. In that episode alone, and obviously she's been injured and potentially concussed and has a knee and is experiencing torsion in her ovary. She has a knee. She's out with a knee. AJ Brown's got a knee. She was. That she, you know, gets the deductible stuff all mixed up, but then also thinks that the hospital pain scale is numbered like letterboxed . Which was super funny. It didn't. It it doesn't bother me. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me, nor does uh nor does a a guy being obsessed with hot chip really bother me. You know what I mean? Like it's specificity is what roots it in reality to me. So totally. By the way, you should mention the reason she jumps out of the car is not any proof of infidelity . It's that she sees that Eunice's Instagram is private and yet Austin has been allowed entry into her private Instagram. That is a very contemporary concern. That is not a dramatic act-out beat that I would say that my parents would flag were they to know how to turn on Netflix or what Netflix was or what beef is. That's the thing is I do wonder for people who are not like glued to their phones like s how some of this plays. No, I have no problem with the humor, and I also thought like that episode four was a really great example of something that's incredibly tense and everything is kind of building towards Ashley's surgery, but he still takes moments to have Austin have that weird interaction with the woman at the totally at the um what you call it snack machine vending machine and you know the woman brought in on a 5150 who's tripping balls and like there's just flourishes and it feels very, very lived in, even though it's a Netflix show that has like movie stars in it. It feels very much like and I I for me the reason why four and especially the end of four , the face Kaylee Spaney makes when Josh's long promised like white glove treatment comes through way too late. And the guy's like, oh, I wish Josh had called me earlier because I could have gotten you seen immediately and we probably like the underlying message being we could have saved your ovary. Her nostrils flare for just a second, and you're like, man, Josh is fucking dead. Like this is and it it is I always remember Tina Faye talking about Rachel McAdams and Mean Girls and how like you can tell you've got a movie star when she can do a page of dialogue with an eyebrow arch or with like with one gesture. Yeah, you can cut the words. And Kaylee Spaney does not have to say a thing, but she is like, this guy just might have robbed me of having a baby. I'm gonna make it my life's mission to bring him down. Now that fluctuates over the next couple of episodes, kind of going back to the the the Shiv and Tom corollary that you brought up. But to see her in the very next episode being kind of Carrie Mulligan's therapist as they walk around OHI looking for this dog is i it it's its own kind of thriller because you're like what like when when is she gonna find out? When is she gonna find out? And the way that the the the characters emotional arcs are not always jammed into each other because they are not in service of the plot. And not to compare and contrast because they are very different shows with very different goals. But I think one of the things we were bumping on with Margot's got money troubles is that any in interiority of characters' lives or emotional state was so clearly created to be serviced by someone else's to advance the story of healing and unconventional family structure and it's plot plot plot. Yeah. Um This allows us to have that moment unsaid about how Josh literally leveraged her future over his own concerns by potentially blackmailing her back um over medical care. And in I believe it's the previous episode , there's that absolutely incredible sequence in which um Carrie Mulligan's character wearing a red light face mask ing her f sees is is is trying to cre trying to follow up on an assignation with an old flame, and then he begs off, and then she immediately googles and sees on Daily Mail that he's seeing someone else, and she just starts laughing slash crying maniacally and then chases a plan B pillow with a glass of red wine. So So bravo. Uh this is this this is this is cinema. Yeah. And I I and I love it. I do have to ask if if anything cut close to home to you, I mean I know that we've probably all been to a hot chip show or two in our lives. Have you have you ever gotten mad at someone for getting COVID at Mescal night? That seems CR coded to me. Uh getting mad at somebody for having COVID? No, just I let a British guy cough into my mouth. That's how I got COVID the first time. I mean, it is what it is. I was so good. I had the fucking Johnson and Johnson. Nobody was touching me for a minute. And then I go to England for the first time, and some guy comes up to me after a live show, she goes, Mate! And then just starts yelling at me about Crystal Palace like into my larynx. And I was like, that's it. I had the worst fucking flight anyone in America has ever had coming back. I'm really sorry now in retrospect because I was COVID positive. I didn't find it out until I got to LAX because they had those cool tests. Uh-huh. And I was like, that's that's definitive proof. That's a funny story. Rampages through my body. Despite the best efforts of Woody Johnson's vaccine. Uh what was the question? So no, I don't give a shit about that. And I had some mess count lates with you, brother. And if I had gotten the the big 19 from it, so be it. All right. So what if I didn't mess up Mezcal night? But let's make it beef season two specific. What if I what if Your Mezcal nights were great? Thanks man. Remember that mezcal mixtape we used to do? Yeah, little tasting flights we would do. Getting tobacco here. Then be like, Oh, it's eleven PM. Is that bubblegum? The funny thing was like it would be it would you would serve it and it would be like are you tasting the bubble gum and I am I am tasting gasoline this is fucking fire water dude so just staring at you seeing if you're picking up the subtle notes of like saddle leather and regret baked into each class. On beef season two though, uh Ashley's COVID, not Ashley, um L Lindindsasay. y's COVID keeps her husband from seeing Top Gun Maverick in the theater. It was bullet train. Oh no, it's right. It's Top Gun Maverick, you're right. That's a very great fight. It's very Los Philos coded. It's also just a fight that like the way they're like this is the problem with fighting with you is that you like completely misremember things. Like Yeah. It's it's just a very, very accurate depiction of long term relationship fighting. And to Oscar Isaac's credit, his best moments on the show so far are the fights. And there's a moment when she's like, I've caught you in an egregious lie. The lie is whether or not she approved a doorstop that he had sourced on Amazon. Oh, she's like, I'm gonna go look this up on Amazon, right? Yes, and she's like and she's like, You absolute idiot and his face is the most alive that it is in the entire series. But speaking of like their their kind of chemistry, it's like when he and I've seen this pointed out on on online, so I don't want to pretend like this is like my my my blind uh observation here. The uh moment where he breaks into a British accent to mock her, she breaks a little bit, or maybe doesn't but, like she certainly like has like this moment of nervous laughter. And I'm like, you that the you could do that a million times and may not get that reaction. And like, you know, let's see Ann Hathaway and Jake Jill and all do that. It's all I gotta say. Her British accent's quite good. Right. If she was playing Lindsay. Um I did want to ask you because it I think it comes out more in the final episodes, which we can talk about next week. But the international intrigue that we talked about. Um where where where did you kind of where how do you feel about that additional sort of three to four characters and a huge other sw ath of plot being laid on top of the Well, there's two things. One, when you are this tightly focused on the emotional lives of characters that I'm interested in, add more plot. The plot becomes secondary to that. The plot becomes the scaffolding of the roller coaster that the people I'm paying attention to are riding on. And if there's an extra loop in there, it's probably better for the characters. That's generally my approach to stuff. When it's working, I only note that stuff being preposterous or outlandish if I'm not bought in. Yeah. If I'm bought in, I'm on the ride. Um two, something that I really appreciate about the series, and again, I hope we get a chance to talk. I've never I'm I'm calling him Sonny like I've met him. Never met him. Would love to talk to him about this show. Um this is a show that clearly is fueled by someone's interests that he's interested in things, he's interested in exploring dynamics, um, and has some unique perspective to bring to these dynamics. And so there's a scene when they talk about or there's Whoosh the tennis pro brought in from Seoul. And when he and uh Lindsay are talking about like things that Dr. Kim can do to change how she looks, you know, uh or improve subtle things. Or even the way the country club wives talk about going to Korea and what Korea can do. So this this idea of Korean culture, Korean skincare, Korean beauty standards being folded into the batter of upper class California life. That's pretty real. I was curious whether or not there were elements of K drama that like inter ference like the the sort of plotting and the way that this is it this is playing out. I mean obviously K drama is like a blanket term for a lot of different kinds of storytelling, but I was reading a little bit about it. I can't say that I've like watched a ton of it. Yeah. Um but I was curious whether or not there were hallmarks. This would be a good good thing to talk to Sonny about because like I'm I wonder whether or not there there's an influence there in terms of like the way the the the plot almost yes ends into yeah like into the stratosphere. But I think that works whether I think that'd be very interesting to find out, because that's not that's not a genre of show that I'm particularly familiar with. But um what it does in practice with this season of television is that it raises the ceil ing. The possibilities for the Jos h and the the the two couples skirmishes are limited if they are just bound by the economic and societal limitations of those two characters. You put you raise the roof when you put in William Fickner's character, who can just put people on planes and just give him advice and take, you know, and and and make things A make the people who are higher, which is Josh and um Lindsay, um make them want something. Yes. And then you bring in something on top of that. That's the great thing of yeah. And you put people on top of that, then suddenly the embezzlement or the blackmail can go higher, the stakes can get bigger, which works for what the show to me, what works for what the show does. And then when you put two one Oscar winning, certainly two Oscar caliber actors, I would have to imagine having fun playing these parts, playing these parts with each other as a married couple, which is not something I think they've probably I don't know if they've ever acted together before, but I doubt they've played that. Um it's awesome. I mean, Song Kang Ho is like a leading man writ large. And he is having fun playing a character part. And that is such a luxury on a show like this. Um we'll wrap up beef Monday with with euphoria. How about that? You thought you were like, guess what? This podcast is vegan now, but nope . I just was all I did was like pass along like I guess this should th I shouldn't do the news. You know what I mean? Like I just was like, hey, you know what? I've seen some mixed reviews of this show. You know, it's like e even the greats can be swayed by misinformation campaigns or honeypots. I know that Eric Swalwell said the same. You know what I mean? So I'm just saying not for what brought him down, but he was involved with a you know Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zetbound Terzepitide may be able to help. Zetbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZEPBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines, it is not known if Zephund is safe and effective for use in children. 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It would be incredible if I don't know if we have special top chef leaders. I don't really want to talk about the food. Really. I mean, I've been to Cracker Barrel and I liked it. Uh, this episode is a grueling uh experience for the chefs. This is Monday's episode of Top Chef, obviously. Um, they have to make a Cracker Barrel uh esque item from Cracker Barrel's all-day menu. They get put into breakfast, lunch, and dinner assignments. But um it seems like it was a difficult challenge. Uh even our boy Lawrence just undercooked a bunch of chicken tenders. She didn't was possible. Yeah that nice pink in the middle. Uh that was it hardcore the way Kristen was like, no. You know, she was just like this is this is not safe to be eating. Um do you believe in uh bringing chicken tenders up to an appropriate temperature before serving? As a as a parent of children, yes. Well, I just didn't. You also spent a lot of time in England and they got chickens everywhere there. Of all different internal temps. Come on, man. When we watch Br British food content creators, the the chicken it there's just like and then I'm just gonna dab that the salmonella off the cutting board before I put all my veg on it. The chickens look healthier. Yeah, they are yellow. I'll say that. I'll say that for them. They do this cracker barrel challenge. Yeah. That's the quick fire. The elimination begins essentially immediately in the studio where all the chefs, much to their own chagrin, have to make dessert because it's always funny. There's like one or two people who are like, yeah, I was a PS chef, but a lot of them fucking hate dessert and making it. And it is going to be judged not by Tom and Kristen and Gail, but by top chef fans who live in Charlotte. Yeah, I was gonna say up to that point, I was like, hello, where was the call? Yeah. But um and honestly, those fans were delightful and it there was like a nice experience of like what it must be like, you know, when Tom is like, This is shit, and like somebody who doesn't eat that food all the time is like, God damn, that's like the best dessert I've ever had. Um these these desserts were supposed to mirror um several classics, you know. That Queen Charlotte would have enjoyed. Uh yeah. Melissa Beno it, the uh the actress who's on a Netflix show that's set in North Carolina. I can't remember, but she played Supergirl and she's a huge fan of Top Chef. She was nice, yeah. She seemed delightful. Yada yada, like uh Anthony winds up winning the uh elimination challenge. It's pretty close to see who goes home. And also the chefs I don't think the judges elected Anthony. I think he he won based on a vote, right? No, the the the crowd vote . Oh, it was three . Yeah. And I think the crowd vote had a sway in the final decision making, or at least the or maybe or maybe you're right. Maybe they had the they had a voice. Okay. Um don't we all? And uh the more important thing is the elimination. Duane's pretty close to getting cut, I think, because she basically picked a caramel cake. Caramel cake, which looked quite nice. And made something completely different. And then and then just poured brown caramel foam on top of it. Yes. And it was uh they were pretty savage about twins. But like this is the age-old top chef, like are they really only judging these people based on the dish they have in front of them, or is there a um does your cumulative kind of expertise or skill go into it? I I usually would say it's impossible not to think of that. You know, and what everything somebody's cooked until up until that moment. But Rhoda is a good example of somebody who I thought was like running away with it and then went home or not home, went to last night's kitchen. Anyway, Dwayne doesn't go home, Justin does. Yeah. After the elimination , it's announced that Restaurant Wars is next. As it always is. Uh while this is happening, Jennifer, who is Justin's partner uh in life and also on the show with him and contestant with him, Jennifer, who has been experiencing these like some nerve pain in her left arm or in her arm, now she's experiencing discomfort or like some like temporary paralysis in her face. It looked like she was Bell's policy. Okay. But she had an attack of I think for the first time in her life, Bell's palsy, which is quite scary. Yes. And treatable. And Joel Embiid had that. Exactly. So it looks like Jennifer is now broken the kind of bare like seal on like you you you need to go get medical attention to leave the show . Here's where I want to get into it with you. Okay, because I want to get into it when the episode started. Oh. So I'm raring to go. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just giving people a recap of what was happening. I wasn't talking about like as you should have, the end of the episode shenanigans that led into Last Chance Kitchen is about who actually has been eliminated and who will be rejoining the show? Trevor Burrus So for people who forget, Seeger was eliminated last week and did not go to Last Chance Kitchen. And when Last Chance Kitchen started, Tom was like, this is very un uh uncommon. But we will explain at the start of next week's episode. Which they did not. And then Jennifer goes home for a medical at the end of this episode and her partner Justin has been sent to Last Chance Kitchen, but is given the opportunity to simply go back into the show as the most recently limited and replace Jennifer. And he turns that down to go be with Jennifer, but then does do last chance kitchen eventually. So this reinforces something that has been explained, I think, or at least alluded to. So two days later in this case. So Justin had time to having withdrawn from the competition, make sh see that she was not having something more extreme. You know, there was worry she was having a stroke or something. She's been diagnosed, she's safe, and she encourages him to give it another shot and to go into last chance kitchen, which he does um briefly. Yes. And loses to Rhoda. And Rhoda is not then sent back into the competition Seer will be back to come back next week. This has not been confirmed, but this is obvious and they're playing very coy with it in ways that we're not. I would say it's particularly not good television because this was a catastrophically bad episode of Top Chef across the board because it did three of my least favorite things that the show seems to inevitably have to do at some point during a season, maybe for budgetary reasons. Got the big three. Big three of Top Chef no-nos. Let me guess one. Yeah. Uh a corporate tie-in. A absolutely wedged in nonsensical corporate tie-in that cracker barrel, nice restaurant to go to when you're on a road trip, no problem. But to have Kristen be like, we all know and love their famous crispy edged pancakes. Which camera? No, we don't. We don't all know that. Thank you. Go on. Two. Making them do back to backs. Nope. Making them. He hates back to back. Well the fucking bell's palsy came from somewhere. Um and uh how about them never leaving the studio? Ding absolutely ridiculous, especially when Last Chance Kitchen is there too, and the attempts to make it classy and like hang different lights and then bring normals in to taste their food to the entire episode feels claustrophobic and detached from any actual reality or presence. I will give them some grace here because last year when it was top chef Canada and it was like top chef warehouse in Canada or so we're told was really, really egregious. If you have to do one of these to then pay for or save money for some larger field studies later. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, that was two. Desserts. I don't care about desserts. Chefs don't care about dessert No, but I also think that it's not good television when two-thirds of the contestants are like, thank you for asking me to do something I don't like doing and I'm not particularly good at. That's not very compelling. And then I think that 's Andy is the kind of guy who sends me Instagrams of steamed fish and is like, I am Paul Atreides now. This is my like my dream in life. Very, very clean. Very clean fish. I'm also I will also order cheese for dessert. So like let's you know, let's be honest. I'm not saying I don't like I can even like a dessert, but if they don't like it, you know what I like though? A fucking ice cream cone. You know, like let's just be honest. Like I kinda like I don't it doesn't need to be too fancy. I I like a bread pudding. Baking is challenging. I even like baking, the great British baking show. I enjoy as well. But baking primarily is science and ratios and not like wild improvisation, which some of these chefs maybe are more talented at. And I also think that like the palate fatigue of all these people just shoveling in the sugar makes for kind of a muddled uh judging experience. Yeah, I have to imagine that that is difficult. I still think this has been a strong season editorially and vibes-wise, certainly. But I'm very unimpressed with the contestants so far. Unless the Rhoda elimination really was like accidentally axing your main character too early and she will rise triumphant from the underworld like Norpheus who didn't look backwards . I don't really think that there is a maybe something will someone will emerge. Sometimes people go on a heater later. I mean, I think Anthony and Lawrence are clearly the two best chefs and like they are kind of being treated as like supporting characters to the twins. Yes. Jennifer and Justin. Dwen's got a lot a lot of camera time. I think these are very charming people. Sure. But I don't Oscar, you know But it and the show it struggles year to year. I mean it's only can rise as high as the contestants raise it and Tristan was j w another Tristan and Buddha are generational, like in the sense of like what they were bringing point of view. Yeah, we've had wire to wire guys a couple of seasons in a row Not in a row, but we've had we've we've had them. Guys who elevate everyone else. Because if there's a front runner, people are chasing or trying to get more experimental. And like this season we seem to have a lot of just fine folks who whose highs are not nearly as high. So that all of that was diminishing the experience. It was a weak episode, but then to have it to kind of have it both ways and be like, there's an exciting mystery to come. We've never had this happen before. When really it's just a bummer that one of your contestants had a health issue and you have to bring back someone. I think that Survivor is just very communicative about like this person needs to go home and here's what's going to happen and here's this and here's that. Like there's a lot of over explaining. Mm-hmm. And I don't understand why they couldn't have done something in the edit to be like s the reason Seeger is not in Last Chance Kitchen is because Last Chance Kitchen shoots several days after the actual competition shoots on any given moment. And Seeger, it was a we were aware that Jennifer was not going to be able to finish the competition. But I I guess my reason is because you would have spoiled the Justin element. Yes, but they gave Jennifer this morning that she was gonna be eliminated if she missed any more quick fires or any other elements of the show . To me, that kind of indic ated that they did not think that she was going to be on the show long term. I it's totally fine. I don't want them to kick her off in any way, but there's something strange about like where has Seeger been now for like three days? He's in the stew room. He's just waiting, focused, drinking Josh Wines. Right. So uh and we got an email uh from a friend of Seeger's or for a from a former colleague of Seeger's that was like written in the first person. Just not that the the feeling like the show is not capturing his person Do you think we'll have a new Seager when he comes back? Humbled, rested, ready. Well, I mean there is an element of that as well where it's like, did this guy get to like go home and conceptualize recipes for three days while everybody else is doing back to back cracker barrel dessert challenges? Can I throw something out there? Yeah. It's too soon to go back to an all-stars season. But you you want it. I think we might be approaching the time. They've done this a few other times where there have been some returning favorites who get another chance. Aaron Powell Sure. Although I you know she seems very talented , but there was I can't like when Justin was talking about her, and and actually his behavior towards her and his lightened demeanor in Last Chance Kitchen when he was freed of the stress of how she was doing was very touching and I think really appropriate and they seem like they have a good relationship. But he's like she was crushing this competition before this happened. And I did not see evidence of that. Well it's less more When does her arm get screwed up? Like the second episode, right? It's less her opportunity to excel, though maybe she will when she comes back, it's that there have been years when they have sort of just given a little will goosted a little bit by bringing back some like almost almost weres and also rans just to give it a little more verve. And I think maybe we're headed back to that. Um How would you have done w I first of all, we're available. That email address is out there to come taste things. Preferably not a dessert challenge in the beautiful state of North Carolina. I would have loved to have done the the the the pepper judging. What? You w Hold on. We might have to switch the lights for this. You wanted to be in the hundred and twenty degree greenhouse eating a progressive meal of catastroph ically hot peppers. Like what do you want me to go judge cracker barrel food? Like I I want to go experience something that I'll never experience otherwise. I'm going to go on the right. I I also would like to have new experiences. I would like to have No, you don't. You want to have the clean white fish challenge. Delicious. I'm just saying I don't want to experience all the new things still awaiting me on camera. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I'm not worried about that. I have a pretty good constitution when it comes to that stuff. How would you do on hot ones Here's I I've talked about this before. I'm I'm I am no one can hit me when it comes to Sashuan spice. Like sa like I didn't know this about you. Sashuan, like the numbing spice. I'll I'll fucking die eating that stuff. Like really? Fly by Jing extra fucking spicy on everything. But numbing spice is different than like the Carolina Reaper spice. I know. I'm saying I like have a different relationship to different kinds of spices. The Reapers, I never ate Danny Chow ate one in front of me at Grantlin once and I thought he was gonna have a fucking heart attack. Um I I find I just I'd love to know. I haven't I haven't I haven't really dipped my toe into that. This is what keeps you young and makes me quite old. You know, your willingness to try new things. Yeah. But you but I think I think that I just have like a much more like kind of like adventurous palette, I think. You know more what you like. No, I like to try almost anything, but I am not a fan of X extremity for extremity's sake. In television or in spice. I think that the Seshuan stuff opened up a new dimension of like how I like to eat food. Do you like leaking everything? That's the thing. When like your ears start ringing and you're a little bit like in this reality, but also Desmond from Lost and experiencing parts of your childhood at the same time. Daniel Faraday is whispering to me. Uh do you want to do any sports before we go? We for after dark? Um yeah, where yeah? It's draft day. Uh before we get a draft day. I wanna ask you how many games in a row the flyers have to win before you pay attention. It's interesting that they are uh having a moment right now. On the precipice of sweeping the Pittsburgh penguins. First of all, yeah. Pittsburgh is a friend to us. Sure. They've given us the pit. They've given us Bane. Bane. Bane's greatest moment. They should have a plaque there. Sandwiches with French fries in them. Great town. This year alone, I've been on the record as saying something true, which was I don't think it was controversial, but it was wasn't my greatest moment . Where I said the impediment to me watching heated rival ry wasn't the the full frontal sex scenes, it was ice hockey. I I am so deeply uninterested in ice hockey. I haven't watched your beloved Shoresy. No. I'm not a hockey guy. Playoff hockey, there's nothing like it. That's what everyone says. There's just nothing like it. Find a new slant. What do you what do you everyone everyone the only argument anyone I've ever heard I've ever heard anyone make for hockey is play on hockey. This guy tr uh trippet uh on the the flyers is getting his head beaten in at the end of the game two. Yeah. And they just fucked him up in game three. Like they came back five two. It was just like how many rounds of playoffs await? This is the first round. Multiple. Okay. So I'll I'll I'll h hit you up if we make it to like the conference finals. How about that? I mean, I I am rooting for the Flyers above all other teams. And they're also like the thing you might like about them, young guys who seem to like each other. That is that's what draws me to most things. Weirdly, I like beef, which is not about young guys liking each other. Uh as far as the Sixers go, That was pretty cool. Not getting my hopes up, but yes, that was very cool. I my my trademark luck didn't turn that game. Which was you checking in on it? My question I have about draft day is what are you going to do with all your time when draft is over? First of all, unlike Mike Rabel, I'm not taking off day three of the draft to pursue my mental health. I will be locked in across all three days. What's nice about the draft for me honestly the funniest thing anyone's ever done has been like I'm gonna go into counseling after the first round. After the first two rounds. That shows respect for all involved here. I um Can you imagine like how that conversation with his wife went where he was like, I definitely need to go see a professional after I make four draft picks? Yes , after I spend time with the fellas . Like I definitely would schedule all things for after the NFLC. Rebuild. Yeah, debrief on the whole thing. Yeah, that's right. Me and Elliot Wolf. We'll bring the whiteboard. Um I what's your what's your next obsession after the draft? You don't understand. The thing about the draft that I like so much is that after the draft, we come away with, you know, four to eight new characters in my life who actually have no accomplishments in Midnight Green or Kelly Green as the case may be. Thus, I can then spend the next three or four months cleanly fantasizing about them all becoming Hall of Fame players and getting along. That will help me sleep. And driving well. That will said that. I uh always. Well, or Big Dom will drive them. That that's what I thrive on. That's my preferred mode of sports. I I'm beginning to think that I'm an off season warrior, you know. Oh, I definitely think you are. Have you always thought that? Yes. Not in a bad way, but I think that this is where you thrive is in narratives. Yes. And and in media. But not necessarily in in game tape. And in like parasocial friendship projecting. That's fine. Of like well, you're all in the same draft class, fellas. And then and then the the the Instagram mods for like Philadelphia Eagles will post them of like showing up at the Nova Care Complex. And I'll be like, look at that. They fit right in. We could we should do a bit of doing the Carrie Mulligan thing from beef, like wearing a red light mask and like flipping through. And it was just me re-watching when Howie Roseman called Jalex Hunt and he said, What's up, big pimpin'? But I'm crying. Because there have been nights like that. Here's something, here's something you can guarantee. If you ever need my attention, anyone in the anywhere in the world, you, people I know, strangers, just go near me and play the video of how we drafted Cooper DeGene. It's like three minutes cut together to make it seem like it was fate accompli, you know, it was all easy. If that auto plays in any moment of my life. I'm just I it's like you, you at hot pot. I dissociate completely and I live only in that reality. It's been wonderful talking with you today. I did I really did enjoy talking about beef with you. It was good. See? Yeah. No, the only thing that beef was lacking. Well, chili crisp. Seriously.