British Politics and Andy Burnham

This summer, fan dool is the best place to bet on goals. Including equalizers. Uhuh Vollies? Y, Petters. Every goal is worth more on fan du. So let there be goals. New customersk get up to one thousand dollars in bet reset tokens when you bet five dollars five daily. Total one plus and present in select states often required, Refund issed is n not withdrawal bonus bets that expire seven days after receivt. M minimum five dollarars wage are required for five consecutive days. Max refund two hundred dollars per day. restestrictions apply including token expiration, seatful terms at fan dool dot comot slash sportsbook Gambling problem called one eight hundred Gambler or one hundred my Ret. Hey Babes, it's Paris Hilton. So I was checking my points balance in the Hilton Honors app the other day. and yeah, I've got about a billion, which feels excessive. Even for me. Just kidding, you can never have too many Hilton Honors points. And I want to do something iconic this summer, so I'm giving away all my Paris points. Just find somewhere you've always wanted to stay, then go to my socials or Hilton's and tell me about it Just make sure you're a Hilton Honors member, and I might be sending you Paris points because when you want points that make your summer even hotter, it matters where you stay boards have to clear the room So the watch, my name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at theringer dot com and joining me in the studio, He came here on Sheep stealer, but he's leaving in Monancer. It's Andy Greenwald. Those are dragons. Those are dragons. They are not brands of fort to electic les. Greenwald, great to see you, The watch of sppotify dot comot the watch underscore the watch Pod underscore on Instagram, if you want to follow us. You can watch us on the ringer. ash TV YouTube channel and on Spotify, where I hope you listen to us but you can listen to us anywhere CB radio, I hear UK pirate radio DJs are playing us. Is that do you think Kir Starmer is going to go directly from Downing Street to the pirate radio boat? Mandem. just Mandem hour? Yeah. Yeah. We is a new one from Burial. Oh tune This really takes me back twenty fourteen. We have a lot of television to talk about. We show us to talk about Yeah. Yeah. We got Touse of the Dragon today, We got Star City today. I also want to talk to you about some cancellations S some people? No Although they tried to cancel Olivia Rodrigue because she likes Pinkerton, Did you see that? No? Damn, you got to get online, brother. No do. do not? I do want to speaking of online, I do want to just prove that we are responsive because for people who watch our podcasts. They some noted That last week before we were joined by Hero Mari and Katie Dipppold of Widows Bay, we were seated much like Michael Keaten and Kim Byinger in Batman. We have now perhaps over corrected. We are now sitting at Big table for the big show. Yeah. smallmall table for a smaller show. It's intimate.. Yeah. I noticed like you were regulating your volume a little bit I'm also trying to save my voice several pods this week And also O be it for me to get in the way. I want to be less didactic. I want to listen more. Really? Yeah, You're going on a listening tour. Like Andy Burnham on his march south guysuys, he's running He's running. I think you also want to protect your voice because In the latest update of living in an apocalyptic hellscape, we have been breathing pure burnt ammonia fumes all weekend here in L. C can't confirm or deny that Okay, Karen. I think the fire department is like it's not toxic Sure. mean when has a fire department ever aled the truth. It was pretty gnerly here this weekend, but also we did, at least I did lose a little bit of voice celebrating this weekend, which was nice. Thank you for attending. You were celebrating my daughter. A Rams draw yesterday? Both. Yeah Both equally, you know, that's like Adam is starting to rub off on me You know, we keep them guessing culturally. We have a little little parent corner here for a second It was it was a great weekend. We celebrated. we shouted a little bit. We got you and Poebe on the dance floor eventually For your daughter's B Mitzer, right? I said it, but you thought were talking about Iron over it, which which was noted But it's actually kind of beautiful, that we could still sit down at a small table despite our we geographic device We're not so different. We're not so different. It was a wonderful, wonderful night. Hving not been to Aotitzvah in thirty five years? Do you still think you have the same Riz that you did then? Be you talk a big game about the old days. Well, this one was more, there was more activities in terms of like, I mean, I thought you guys did a lovely job with photo booth, soft serve machine such Such luxuries were not afforded. You're definitely making it been in Philadelphia when I was coming up. Yeah bigger than it was, but yeah. And I just remember there was a lot more like ceremony to the first dance, you know? Oh and that's where I came in. that's where that's where I stepped up. So so briefly I'm sure the House of Dragon fans are loving this, but like they're not gonna love they're not gonna love it anymay. You set the scene because I do in my memory and this could be f this could be me like, you know This could be apocryphal. this could be me like telling myself a story in order to live. No, I don't believe that. I think that there was like a first dance Usually at these Bad Mitzv. And it was like Girl's choice, like the celebrated woman's choice, young woman's choice. The newly not Christened, newly anointed Jewish adult. Yes, gotot to choose who she was gonna dance with. And I felt like I got I went like two for three on Botnzvas where I was. That's an incredible patting effort. Yeah. M like Cooper Flag. That's a different sport. Yeah You know, I mean, it did not auger like insane amounts of success with women in middle school, but it was still like, you know, I thought it was a learning experience for both of us. I would say two things. One, you're not wr I don't remember any particular ceremony, but I do remember The intense awkwardness of slow dancing at the age of thirteen when all women were two feet taller than us Yeah U In fact, some still remain that way. I'm not saying much has changed, but at that time, that was quite intense. I would say that at least in my now limited observations, the politics and culture of teen dancing have changed. in that it is now much more of a like group shouting along performing the dance floor and then immediately retreating when the more viral hits are not being played And interestingly, the number one, people who have kids in that range now, I think will understand this. but The number one like dance floor filler of twenty twenty six is Iicon Iicona Pops Charlie XCX coll I don't care. I love it. Yeah. that's the one. Where like do you think that that is purely from TikTok Or was it featured in something that they are into? I think what they arere into is TikTok. I mean, it it was crazy to watch that song blow up bigger than any Taylor song you played. Yeah. An Didn't you cur I was not the DJ. No there wasn true Starmer was the DJ Unfortunately he has been He has submitted his resignation. Yeah. No, no, no, I was not allowed to touch the core playlist, I was allowed to offer an alternative slate, much like the Green Party. sure And and the DJ who did show up to set up wearing a talking heads t shirt and I was like, my brother, this will be a long, frustrating night for both of us. I was I offered a slate alternate electors is what I'm saying. And he did pull from that sometimes. Primarily it was my daughter's as it should be her.. I mean, it was heright was great. Were you there when the ceremony ended and every went outside and the playlist I was told to make for the like the wine hour And immediately deep cuts from Wes Anderson movies started playing. You were going into like Mirage era Flewood Mac And And my daughter ran up to me and I was like, this is going to be a beautiful moment And she said, What is this? You have to stop this immediately Wait, what did you put on? I didn't even hear it. It was that. It was like, I was like, these are things're trying to explain backrooms to like thirteen people there You're never off the clock clipping. You understand. Liminal. Never off the clock. Yeah. No, it was like exactly what you think. I'm like, theseese are songs that are not unfamiliar to her during her life and thus I hoped would not be unappealing. Yeah, like Love Ghost to Buildings on Fire was playing when she was getting her third die Coke and was like, this has to end. Where do I want to start today in earnest Yeah You know what? Wh don't? I did a movie corner I was going to say Parent Corner continues And I'm just, like I said I'm listening. Then then are we going to talk British politics? If you want to, off course I want to. You wantan to do burnamentum first or toooy st G me burnam. You you do tooy Story five becausecauseuse I feel like it kind of ties into the weekend that you had of. And it ties and then the burnham stuff ties into the kind of like high level geopolitical manoeuvering of Houses the Dragon Okay, we got it. No, I went to the cinema yesterday. it was it was an emotional weekend having this event then and then Father's Day and then you take both kids to it? Of course. yeah. Did your older child express any interest in seeing backrooms or obsession instead Like are know they're not starting to be curious about You know, the more No, she doesn't I offered her, I invited her to dgier cinema. I invited her to join me to watch Widows Bay. and she was like, I don't I don't wantan to be scared. Okay. So no, we did see Toy Story five and is excell That's my take. I was really, really surprised and impressed by it. Trying to think if I've seen one of them I like know what happens in them kind of do you though? What's your? You probably saw toys sties c boy. Oh boy. Right. And the little boy gets these toys when he moves to a new house and they're like his friends, right No, he moves to a new house and they leave the toys behind at the old house and they have to get to him, right? This is the early tooy story. yeah. Yeahah, That's right And they got four more movies out of this Yeah. Okay. Well. And then there's a Chris Evans like o So so Toy Story two. went wo I'm not trying to be introduced introducce Jessse. Okay. played by Joan Kusak, who is essentially the star of this fifth film. Okay. And then Toy Story three is held up by like Aos Scott of the New York Times It' like the Daddington cinema. because Toy Story three is both brilliant and funny, but also has one of the most metal endings of any children's movie ever. Metal like dark. It is so Kai, are you familiar with these movies You know, I watched like the first two, I think when I was a kid and I haven't kept up with the franchise. Chris nodding. Chris understands his voting base so well. I'm so out of step with the times. So Toy Story three, not to spoil too much, but Toy Story three crescendos with all of our toy friends on a conveyor belt to an incinerator. be destroyed. is like that's the last. And they're like scrabbing up the incinerator belt or like, how will we save ourselves through our various toy mechanisms like the Slinky is stretching or whatever. And then Silently, they all share a look and then just hold hands accepting their fate that they will all burn And this moment is held to a degree that I do believe people generationally who watch this at a young age will have a different response to mortality. Really? It is so intense. They don't burn. And I take it that they made two more movies that those guys are okay. They were okay. Four was kind of like straight to streaming era, like like it's fine. Yeah. It's about Tom Hanks' woody character. going off the reservation in pursuit of the Annie Potts voiced little Bau Pep statue. Oh well. Great Annie Pottss performance, but I would say an essential entry into the franchise. and so I was shocked You've seen all of these? I mean this yeah, the children. You got to feed the children The most recent one I did think with my cynical jaded mind would be another one of the like We just gota cash We just gott to keep pumping this for cash because Pixar is not doing so great with the original content. Andrew Stan who directed the first one directed this one And the headline is that it was like, Ah, the age of toys is over. It's like streaming in devices and it's going to get them. Yeah. And it introduces like an early like childhood tablet voiced by Greta Lee But the movie itself was both It was very surprising. It was very formally clever in ways that I was very impressed with. And it was very funny. and it is also more than anything, it is about connection and friendship. And it's a Joan KuseSc u victory lap And also, and I know this is going to matter to you and your Honestly, fragile voting coalition This movie is justice for Tim Allen I I saw some Tim how Tim Allen image rehabilitation stuff start this weekend. So the when I say I saw it, I I do think it would during the World Cup and somebody was like Tim Allen really was goed for this. Yeah. So I do think this was part of the thinking and I'm okay with this because, you know, despite your recent maneuverings, I've always been a big tent guy And There was I don't think it was entirely incorrect that the like COVID era Toy Story four stuff did two things One was Toy Story four in which Buzzlightyear is just like, have a good adventure, Willie? And that's that And then they made that really bizarre Lightyear movie. Yeah, which is a That's origin story got to the toy character that the toy is based on right? So it's in fact, it's animated movie that suggests that this is the movie that the kid in that Andy, the fictional Toy story kid saw and then bought the toy from. in which Tim Allen is voiced by I think it's Chris Evans does the voice of the real Buzzlight year. right Not a not a terriblevie because it has a lot of like loop stuff that's actually kind of relevant to love that some of the stuff that we cover. But anyway, this movie really rectifies that because Buzz Lightyear is charming and funny and throughout the movie and there's a runner of like, a Hargo vessel u fans of the Wire season two would call them cans. crashed or like fall off a ship and fifty buuzz lightightyear toys like wake up on an island and then they have to do something. And so there's a lot, Tim Allen. Okay, come. Tim Allen playing fifty different parts. plus the Pus buuzzight Y your Pime. Do you think they were trying to get like some of that deadpool juice where it's like Oh, do you think Toy Story exists in the multiverse? Yeah. I wanted to mention to you that the buroughs got canceled, which is so that you hadd been like, maybe we should talk about that. I was like, I did talk about that with Joe, but we could always hit it if you would like to. wasas by all accounts and even Netflix's own public facing metrics I something of a success. I mean, it was in the top ten. I think it was It may have peaked at the number one, but it was definitely in their top ten for a while. sort of shockingly canceled. Now since then there have been a bunch of pieces that have explain the real reason behind Netflix cansering the Burros. It sounds like it was expensive. Yeah. It sounds like Netflix felt like the investment wasn't the juice wasn't worth the squeeze in some way. I don't really understand how it costs thirteen million dollars an episode to make it. It's like a New Mexico set story with Alfred Melina and Alfrey Woodard and Bill Pullman and Gina Davis and it's I'm sure they make some money, but I don't know if they make thirteen million dollars an episode. Weere're gonna tell me something and there's I know that there are aliens in it's Howffy Woodard quote G talking about aliens out of this world keep So the conventional wisdom is that this is somehow payback for the Duffer Brothers leaving Netflix and going to Paramount pllus. This comes on the heels of Paramount announcing a untitled Duffer Brothers movie, theatrical event Coming in, I believe twenty seven U, and that this is somehow Netflix clearing all the business off the books that they have at the Duffer Bothers. posossibly I don't see them wiping the slate of their stranger things IP, but I think that that's like an element of it What did you make of this story? I think it just sort of starts and ends there. I mean, I think that King knowing the cost of genre television. generally and knowing the way that Netflix ' spend on shows I think that if they canceled almost anything on their slate, maybe with the exception of free Birt, they could be like, you you guys have no idea how expensive this was Yeah and you could claim that that's the reason You don't Not I mean, Netflix can do whatever it wants, but generally if you have a show that Um, is critically working and more importantly is with an audience. And beyond that, I feel like the whole logline, at least in terms of pitching it internally was, we'll do stranger things for olds That's good business for them So you don't cancel shows like that. unless there are political machinations behind the scenes. And I don't even mean it in a Machiavellian sense. I mean Fully like this was part of the Duffer Brothers next big world building that they were doing as partners, longime partners with Netflix, and then they left. Yeah. so I would imagine all the people who worked really hard on the show quite nervous this whole year. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that it sounded like they had gotten the writers's room together. It sounded like the cast options were up. This was it's worth noting not a Duffer Brothers created show. It's created by Jeffrey Addison and Will Matthews and the Duffers executive produced it.. Not unlike their relationship to something very bad is going to happen, which also I believe has been Yeah canceled or is not coming back. I was going to make the argument that was a one and done show, but it certainly had like a doorway into future seasons Um, I've been fascinated recently just reading about the town. and you know, it seems like now every week we get a is Hollywood going to turn into Detroit article like Detroit Automake article. And I started to actually wonder like A obviously like people are clicking on those storyies so that's why they keep writing them, but who's like How can we keep manufacturing these, like at what point is there like nothing new to say about this whole storyline? Yeah. And you know, I think part of it was built around the mayorll election and the governor election, the campaigns for those offices here in California. tax rebates and what they're doing, what various candidates are going to do for the movie industry is always U up for debay or you know, in the news But I I've started to become kind of cynical about it where I'm like Who benefits from these stories? offtten when I'm reading them And there's a lot of stuff about like, you know, these godamn politicians just don't make it easy enough for us to shoot here the labor unions here are just way too expensive. so we have to shoot in England. I'm like How come we're never talking about like Why does whyy does the CEO of this company make fifty seven million dollars a year and reach. I mean, I don't know that like if if David Zazlov got paid five dollars a year, would they be able to like make shows affordably in this town? I don't know I have no idea. like It costs a lot of money to do stuff in America because there's lots of rules and there's lots of protections against like exploiting people for better, you know, I think for better. So I was about to both sides I noticed I think you're doing a very delicate dance right now between populism and socialism is working. It's interesting that like we We get to this point where like say the buroughs where you're like, God just know just can't make it work for the price point. It's like you guys invented the price point. Yeah You can do anything. I mean, this is actually Chrisy are' so close to like a foundational problem with capitalism and American capitalism particularly, which is B Both things are true. Like it is ruinous to be able to film things here. and we need to create incentives and we need to create a structure where the business that more or less built this town can continue to exist But the terms of how that business is done needs also to be examined. And we are existing in a moment and this is certainly not just in Hollywood, that CEO's of these companies believe that in order to have that position, they merit hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation, and that trickles down slightly among the executive offices. And that is just sacrosanct and that part of the business cannot be touched.. But whether we employ, you know a lighting team or an in house design team. Well, that's all fungible. sureure. that can go. R. But God forbid, we lose we lose the stock options and bonuses. I'm totally open to hearing about what what's difficult about shooting in L.A. aside from the costs. I think that there's probably a lot of nuance to the story. I just was like, why do we keep getting these stories And I was tying it to the Burros thing where I was just like it just seems like a lot of the economic models Yeah since so much of it is tied to share price you know, with these technology companies owning a lot of these platforms, it's like, we have to keep this thing around the ph. three hundred, five hundred, whatever my share price is It just winds up kind of getting away from like, I don't really even know how much money these shows are supposed to be able to make. But we also don't know what the return on the investment. Right. We don't really understand what's of value to them and how they monetize it U especially with something like Netflix, it is so, at least to the lay personerson, it's totally opaque. They could spend ten million dollars an episode of the buroughs, one million dollar an episode on the buroughs, one dollar, one hundred million. I have no idea what that translates to in terms of international subscriber base. And it is, you know, the less cynical version of it is The show, however successful it was, They have a number that says or a chart that shows that it's not worth the spend in terms of what it's bringing in because the deep, deep, deep Alfred Melina fans either already have Netflix or are never signing up. The other thing though that I think is kind of intrinsic to Netflix's business, and I think this might be a conversation for our eventual crossover episode with the toown because I don't really know the nuts and bolts of this A few years ago, Netflix Netflix has a pattern of mimicking the old way of doing things up aent up to a point when it no longer works for their model and then they move on. And what I mean by that is like when the House of Cards ero and they were like, we are going to out HBO HBO. Exactly and plan a flag and win all the Emmys and show what we can do And then you could also call that the Master of None era. And then when that then that gave way to the Flors Lava era and they were just like, we're going to make whatever And it's going to work for us because we are going to become all of TV, not just prestige TV. Five years ago they got really, really F six years ago, they got really, really into the overall business. And they laed Shonda Rimes and they leared Ryan Murphy and Kenya Barris. and they created a whole new division that was going to service these deals and get as much of these deals as he possibly can Duffer Brothers were recipients of that large S. Anenn O of and Weiss coming off of the Game of Thrones were recipients of that it seems that that's shifted slightly. They still do give out rich overall deals and Ryan Kugler who's deal with Disney right? just got one. He's someone that they want to be in business with. Sonny, who Lee Jnson, who made beef and was a guest on our show. He has an overall deal coming off of the success of beef. Molly Metzler who made Made and Sirens has an overall deal with them So they do deals that make sense for them. Yeah. but I'm but there's an element of the Duffer Brothers thing that strikes me as a as a more significant shift in the We made you, you don't make us. Well, iter one or two. It almost would benefit the duffers to have kind of set up their theatrical business or sold this movie paramount and then sign a Netflix deal because Netflix seems fairly kind about Ryan Murphy has plenty of things that are still on terrestrial television. J Ryan Murphy is out of the deal and back to FX and D. I think you're right. But even while he was at Netflix, he was still working on all of the shows that he had And G's Anatomy still on the a. Right. So it's an interesting Dambit Uh from the from the network that prrought the quQueen' gamb Look at the way you did that. S button. Your silence is deafening this week. Oh great. Your silence is deafening on Amazon dumping Luca Guardanino's artificial due to its AI opening e partnership discuss. I have a lot of feelings. Do you really? But I also, you know, I don't know if you know that know I now have to buy cat food regularly. and the delivery options provided by the Prime Videos's parent compompany are pretty good. So I don't want to imperil those. Yeah What a Gordian knot we're all tied into these days, are we? Okay, so Let talk me through this. This movie has been made, right? It is I think finished who's playing? Andrew Garfield plays Sam Altan.. And it is about, I think the earlier days of Op AI Maybe when it was going from nonprofit to for profit, maybe when there had been some upheaval about whether Altman was going to stay in charge of it, I believe briefly relieved of his duties and he was and then raced back in Um And I can't remember who oh, Simon Rich wrote this movie Iorry I was just laughing. You remember the news stories at that time when like New Yorker had the deeply sourced thing where people were like, the only person who should be in charge of the most disruptive and destructive technology in the history of mankind needs to be the most thoughtful, considerate, that fair and balanced moral person. And Sam Altman is the opposite of every one of these categories. And we're all like, o wow. we turn the page and we're like What did Hiltonalls enjoy the theater this week? be fine. Yeah. This reminded me a little bit of the story a long time ago on a probably much lower scale in terms of like the I mean like certainly the level of investment was when Apple had purchased a gawker show Oh, they they wrote the show. They were like we're gonna we're gonna make a show about Gawker and we're going to tell the real story of like Ct Jefferson was writing it for journalism of the two thousands. And then it finally got to like Tim Cook and he was like, absolutely nots like what fuck were you guys thinking? Yes. There's a little bit of that of this like it finally got to like so what are you guys putting in the movie theaters this year? Let's hubble up. Funny, you should say, we've got this crazy little piece of satire and that whoever at the top of Amazon was like which just that's easy now. So it's now up for sale. And I think the sort of second leg of this story has been like Who's passing on it? I've always been passing I think many people have passed. many, many, many companies have passed. I appreciate the fact that you need You need cat cat food and toilet paper, so sorry. I like going to the store personally. Do you support small businesses in your neighborhood, like Target and? CVS and all these mom and pops. Let's we've been around the bush too long. I do want to say one thing. Yeah. it is not about Andy Burnham, though. I am We're gonna to say that for after dark. Oh. I can't wait. It is just that. I think you and I were both caught slightly off guard by not by the fact that the agency returned this weekend a show that we housekeeping. is good. This is housekeeping Paramount decided to just drop the entire season. Yes, which is just wild. So we were planning to dive into what we thought would be one or two episodes later this week, but now it's actually going to make a nice little binge sweet on Thursday because all of the agency and all of the bear will be up and w' discuss all of them because we are but mortal men, but we will talk about the beginnings of both those seasons and maybe the larger. Yeah you know, I it was funny. I was at this aforementioned butt' for this wee. And I had a conversation with another adult Butotn'z for G. about the agency, he was like, you know, I just started watching it. And I was like, lucky for you. Yeah. whole damn season just came out and the second season just dropped. It was it was Kid Sererendous. L could look in his face. It was actually Sam Walton. It' like I brought cat food We're all good. The look on his face was just so informative about like the moment we find ourselves in, which was at once degree of like, oh I'm glad it didn't get cancellled or anything, but also like shit. So now I have there we go. eighteen hours of television to watch. I was like, well, at your leisure, you know, like whatever next time you're on a flight. B The reverse of it is I've waited two years to get the House of the Dragon episode that feels like it should have been the finale for season Yeah Tw And there's no right way anymore except for the pit. It's just like it's true. Yeah, there really is just no right way to do. The only one This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most Learn more at accccenture d. com slash Spotify It's me the We don't need the jingle twice. Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how prriceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. S Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to sixty percent off hotels in the Priceline app Fine. No one deals more deals than Please stop Tine. This summer soccer is here. And so are the watch parties. An Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with thirty percent off orders from Aldi, Kroger And Dollar Jemy everything you need to keep your crowd happy, deelivered straight to your door, chips, dips, fresh ingredients, and more. Order in, so you can lock in for the games. thirty percent off your grocery order, onlyn on whobereds for a limited time I get so many headaches every month It could be chronic migraine, fifteen or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more Botox Aobotainum tooxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those who have fourteen or fewer headache days a month Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away has difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection, site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, astma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Luar' disease, myasthenia Gravis or Lambd Eaten syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects Why wait? askk your doctor, visit Botoxchronicmigraine. com or call one eight hundred four four Botox to learn more. So let's talk about House of the Dragon, which returned after two years off the air It doesn't feel that way in some ways because the Game of Thrones content machine always spins and we had Kight of the Seven Kingdoms, which we both adored. I talked about this episode of House of the Dragon and I will talk about the rest of them with Mal and Joe. and it's always a joy to talk about this whole like creative world with them because they're so knowledgeable and also so emotionally connected to so many characters and so many events. So I also loved walking in the hallways here in the studio, they're the animal pelts Yeah candles the are lining deck everything about it. I So I I want to throw the ball to you and find out. you know, whether you came back to Wes Rose with any trepidation, I have opened up the door. We do not need to do this every week I think you're at your best when you're happy about your work. Thanks man. Do you think that was what they said to Kure Starmer Over the weekends, right? Listen You don't lead with joy anymore. Yeah. We're gonna see that guy fucking DJ getrimavera next year. and we're gonna to be like We's gonna be so happy. We didn't know how good we had it It'll be like the Fred again set and it brings out Mike Skinner, brings out Underworld and brings out Kurestarver And then the whole vbe just kind of shifts. I don't want to lead with faint praise, but This is genuine praise in that They've really figured out how to make this show and the production values and the visual u inventiveness and just the power of the images and frankly, yes, praising the post and the vis effects of the water and the dragons and the intensity of the performances are exceptional. Yeah. And I also appreciate I feel like I need to come up with a word maybe in its's native German to talk about the way that we've been talking about shows, which is talking about like the bones and the heart of them Um bones of the show what Ryan Condal and his writing team have have finally reached after you know, I think a I think even they would say like a challenging process is a storytelling rhythm that both works for the show and is very specific to the show. So you get You get a few of the backroom scenes, you get the you get I mean, the way that they do exposition where it's just like, I will introduce a character briefly, but he must have one interesting aspect of him, such as sniffing perfume, as James Norgan does or we'll give Coralus one minute to uncork an old old bottle of whiskey called live forever in order to, you know Fighting for real estate isn't just something we do here in Los Angeles, Chris. It's something you got to do. It's not just something Samuel Evans sim believes truly deeply. It's something that you have to do when you're adapting something this big I appreciated the machinery of the show, and I think that but I remain frustrated by things that I have, you know that I honestly am at peace with and we can get to them And I'm sure we will, because I think we should probably talk more about the larger sway of it. But I do want to say that hidden in this show, and very much in this episode are w strands that I deeply believe are two of the most interesting stories that I have ever heard in the world. Oh my God, Wesos. and it is Glass half full, glass half empty, if you want to look at them as how great that we have them here, or half empty in the sense of Man, I wish that the show was one of these things specifically and not just the larger U One is the Aegon and Laris rooad trip. which I both love for the performers, but also because those characters arcs within this show have had a breath of storytelling movements that make them more compelling than Rhaenyra, who basically is angry in this room and then angry in that room that's no shade on the character or the actor. That's just the limitations of what the character has to do, much like Matt Smith spent all of last season talking to a magic tree The Aegon and Tom what's I'm going to get his name Gl Carney Tom Glen Carney who one of the best actors on the show the idea of a spoiled prrining king who is brought so low and then wandering in the world is a really cool and interesting story for a show that places so much emphasis on the unusually the reverse trajectory of they Henry IV's rise exactly. Yeah. So that alone would be an interesting TV show The other one, and again, I'm not speaking about how it's been executed on House of the Dragon because we haven't seen that much of it yet the low born Dragon Rider storyline is such a sick story. I wish sorry, I promise I won't do this for an entire season. I wish that was a show I wish there was a show about more complicated, more frankly, to me, more interesting, but also more narratively flexible characters. Do you think who are written in the history books becoming major players in a world? Do you think that specific take? And maybe both of them in some ways, because you know Both of them Both of those ideas that you're talking about feel very naturally like they could have happened in Night of the Seven Kingdoms Yes, like a group ofones low born guys who are aked great power out of like this random, you know birth rate than they have Or a sadistic prince who then is like castrated and defaced and is like left to wander the countryside with his. Um kind of Richher I third But I don' Patriot. L both of those things feel like they could be things that happened in the Ira Parker version of this universe Um I don't knock them for making the show about Rhaenyra and Allison I think that that is a powerowerful central relationship But I do wonder You know, because this is such a strange adaptation. It's an adaptation of Game of Thrones version of like, Wikipedia kind of or like a history It's history book So I think that there has been some embellishment and there's been obviously like I don't know that they have as much dialogue to work from a lot of the scenes are like two people say this happened, but one person say it didn't, you know But It's interesting that you're getting some light electric charges from like these side plots and not from this when I think Condol and company would say is the central conflict. Well That's the thing. L I think there's been growing pains certainly for me and maybe for some aspect of the audience in the transition of G game of Thrones from a show into a universe into an IP universe Yeah. It's not we're not used to yet talking about Westerosi content the way we are with Star Wars content where we can say Andor is one of the greatest television shows of our lifetime And also Obi Wan happened you know, you can say that one is for you and one is maybe for other and charitably, one is for other people, and that's fine. They both can exist on the same streaming platform We are maybe heading towards that faster than I realized. When I was watching this episode and I am admittedly not a deep, deep student of this game and I have not been re watchatching it or like even remembering a great deal of it to be frank This is not for me at this point. the amount of I The amount of like u Factual depth that is required to follow the show and to be invested in a show where what's her name Lothar the Lhar Lar who is awesome. and an awesome character and I certainly remembered her and I certainly remembered that performance. But her Fury and animus towards Corlus is entirely a footnote on the Wikipedia of the show I am going to disrupt all of these plans and hunt down the one man who has been ruling the seas cruelly because he killed the crab feeder or whatever. Yeah. So there's there is a I'm not saying it was't on screen but I'm saying I the emotional drive for it. Ands it's played in the performance U But I would that's not the storytelling I want to watch. And I think that the thing that I have continued to struggle with And then I do want to open it up, but I finally think I understood more of this episode is that House of the Dragon is a limited series What I mean by that is it is in the same way this is grandiose, but like Chernobyl was about a historical event We have rich dramatization and good production values and direction and it focused in and told us a story had some narrative flexibility within you some creation and what it chose to show us, but it couldn't change what happened in builduilding six or whatever it was. Yeah. Our reception of Chernobyl would have been quite different if it had been instead of six episodes over six weeks, if it had been four seasons over six years. Sure. I think that the relationship that I have and that maybe some people have with TV over time is that well we're going to live and grow with these characters and maybe be surprised by them. The nature of the show is it's telling us a story And I do think that I would feel differently about it if I was binging it three years from now in total, or if they had been able to, and this is not their fault shorten the production window. so you could understand that they're telling us a wild tale of some monstrous kings and queens and their dragons. Yeah, I think Obviously, I think because of the strikes and COVID or whatever the sort of delay was and then some budgetary concerns about season two and whatever the reason was, they were not able to end season two with what this first episode of season three was which clearly And now I will get explicit about spoilers for this episode. so obviously I can't imagine you're listening to us if you haven't watched this fight This episode ends with Jased Targaryen, Rhaenyra's son. locking his mother in a room taking her place on a a mission to go save the fleet against the triarchy and gets killed he gets killed in the process Um, The image of his body sinking into the ocean would have been an incredible way to end that second season. And the dragon sinking. And I think it actually would have both put a bow on the second season and set up the third season in a really good way because one of the things that's been sort of You know, I admittedly haven't really watched ahead nor do I really plan to on this, but one of the things that's been interesting about reading TV critics hit this show And they're largely very positive or at least saying like, this is K kind of echoing you and saying this is the best version of this show. Yeah, I would agree with that. Is that there's a lot of thematic stuff that I think is fairly obvious, I guess in the show doesn't feel earned sometimes for me. and that is I've talked about this before, but like you know, there's a lot of stuff about war leaves behind in its wake, what would happen if these kinds of nuclear weapons were flying around in the skies and some of them were wild and untrainable and some of them were being written by people who maybe had mixed loyalties or were only loyal to themsel And You know the idea that these flights of fancy about who should sit in what is, I think one of the best creations of the show is Just how like lonely, uncomfortable and undesirable the Iron throne is. it's not worth anything, But it's kind of great. Like it's like even you know, the idea that like Wh who wants to sit on this thing? Like who would want the responsibility? I do think that the flaw of the show is because it has so much Heavy lifting to do with these families and with these sides of of an argument or an argument a conflict U there's not as much three hundred and sixty feel for the world of Westeros that makes you feel like Oh, the guys on this battlefield or the person on that boat who just got burned alive like mattered in this world. Like there is a little bit inevitable. you have to have red shirts. you have to have people who are just going to be Canon fodder. And so sometimes I feel like the The themes or the ideas of the show don't quite connect with me emotionally that make sense. Yeah. That's my maor criticism of it. I think I'm pretty committed to like watching them play this out. but I I see a line like, You know, both of your your're sort of like these are the things I like or both things that I like to And they're on the show. So I also think that the unquestionable success of Kight of the Seven Kingdoms Cus The proof of concept of the argument that Casey Bloyys in his development team probably litigated intensely internally and then had to explain to the revolving doors of corporate leadership they've had over the last few years that we can be able stewards of this incredibly valuable franchise that we have because we can tell different shaded stories. And I think that The I think part of the reaction to this new season of House of the Dragon is unquestionably, they know how to do a good version of the show. And like Ryan Condall, but also Lonnie Paristair, who got started on not started, but did great work on Bansy years ago, a show that I love which has turned out to be like a real breeding ground for not just for talent like Jonathan Troopper, but Grega Tanis, who directed on the show on Dragon as well. I he did an incredible job with it. The point being that House the Dragon was unfairly U bearing the heavy weight of the crown as the only version of Game of Thrones, post Game of Thrones. And now that they've proven that we can see a lighter version, a more humane version, a more whimsical version of the story at the same time It feels like a more balanced presentation Um this episode specifically did. I was watching with some amusement because If you I wish we could be a fly on the wall of the conversations that Michael Lombardo and the previous regime of HBO were having when Game of Thrones premiered and they were agonizing over the pilot and they were agonizing over whether this isn an even HBO show at all. And I imagine a lot of their direction was, oh my God, we got to tone down the dork shit Bardwalk Empire fans happy. We got to conine to them. And really they were appealing to the you know the like the Clark Kent version of the HBO fan like me was like, well, I don't know if this is worth my time. And so they downplayed a lot of the I mean, they made reference to things, but there weren't dragons yet.ure. And there wasn't this sense of like you to watch this show, you need to understand not just on an emotional level, but on a factual level who represents what and where they're coming from to the point where you introduce James Norton as a H toower, and I'm like Right. Okay. let me just sort of dig deep and remember. and I do remember that's just the Alison and her father who's now the chief Chief designer on Star Cityf It is now this version of Game of Thrones is completely the version that they were worried about fifteen years ago. and There's room for it. They've earned that and the fans that the hardcore, hardcore fans love it. and the people who aren't watching TV necessarily the way I am, but are like to add to my diet, it would be nice to have a burned slab of mutton dropped on my lap every Sunday in Dragonfire and here you go. It is it is It is an excellently made thing that I feel fine about. You made a reference to the Star Wars universe a little while ago that this thing can't leave my head now where I kind of do wonder whether in In some ways, the Targaryens have become the Jedis of of Game I love this. go. Well cook Both of those franchises refused to go past a certain point, right? Like after the sequels got rid of all of the legacy characters in some shape or form, you kind of end it. I kind of honestly don't really remember how Ris of Skywalker ends. Um You know, we ended game D then somehow Palpatine returned? I do remember that part, but I just don't remember where like various characters went off like did did R. you remember Chewbacca live. I sure fuckking kn. But we, you know, Game of Thrones, John's beyond the wall Yeah what's going to happen next And it's like let's tell a that story Yeah. Well, it's not even that, but I'm just sort of like I don't remember who's king in what's his face? the brand the Broken. who has a better story than that. Now I know that George has to finish These novels first before he tells us what might happen next But I think it's interesting that the Game of Thrones TV world is, you know, looking backwards and using the text that George has provided. And in some ways, Star Wars is doing the same thing where it's like, let's use the established canon and continue to tell stories that are adjacent to the force with the exception of Andor. you know, let's tell stories that are about Um This like almost mystical religion that controls the universe. And for the Game of Thrones world, like the emphasis on the Targaryens in this show is not unlike their emphasis on dragons Because dragons were something that pop up in the first and last episode of the first season and are very U selectively distb you know in which in which Game of Thones. Yeah they're very selectively shown U until the very end of the. you could say that might be because of the technology or it might be because dragons had been you know, extinct seemingly and and Daenerys brought them back Kind of like Olivia Rodrigo bringing back Pinkererton, you know That's after Dart two because I really we got to drop the comments. My point being is that they are making like the show about the thing is not always like my the thing I was most interested in. This is it is not Game of Thrones fault is not Star Wars' fault Hollywood America All of us are seememingly deeply afraid of peeking into the future and of telling something new and that the richest vein that we have found creatively to frack whatever resources we have left is multiversal storytelling. Sure. you know, And and that will be a conversation for us through the end of the year U in the sense that even like Marvel couldn't move the ball forward past a Tie pointoint and is now going to try to basically restart itself by by devouring its own history tle. Sure. I think the other thing, just a tonal thing. And then can we then I do want to go through a couple of the characters atort points because I do want to hear your take on them. Your mileage as a TV viewer may differ For me, I will always I always prefer the open ended holy shit, guys, where are we? storytelling of lost, for example, in which it is entirely about like the heady excitement of asking questions Qestions that the people who are creating the show don't necessarily know the answers for, they just know what they're interested in chasing and pursuing, and it might be a bumpy path along the way There is a version of fandom that does not like uncertainty and wants resolution and wants to know, at least know that the creators know the answers and that they can also peek ahead maybe to preree existing texts or the interternet to find out the answers too and I think my ultimate ongoing and probably unending frustration with House of the Dragon is that it is a show about answers. It is a locked historical document that they're playing around in the margins in. But I, when I watch the show feele the frustration of characters on tracks like Rer. Yes, but also like metaphorically like like rides at a amusement park. Sure they're going to go through these motions to get to a place that they were destined to go. And the challenge. and it is a challenge for the creators is to making the audience feel the weight of every decision that leads them to their ruin. but it is a much more locked and fixed document, which is why I go back to that idea that if it was if they' been able to tell this story, in like two super tight seasons or whatever that came out closely together, I think we' have a different relationship to it And maybe the joke's on me because people like Mal and Joe are like, I can't wait to see this story that we know brought to life in it's a very ambitious show. In some ways like their decision to do this entire sort of preamble of the two women when they were children. Yes. theirir decision to really try to like show the political machininations behind the various rebellions is like pretty brave, you know what I mean? and it's incredibly challenging. Yeah. and it's an incredibly big challenge. Like let's talk a little bit about this first episode briefly. Like I just thought, you know to my to my point about the Targaryens as the Jedis of I didn't even really like that much I was not scandalized by Aimmon kissing his mom. I was kind of like, that's just the Targaryen way. Did you do the Ed Roononey I feel like we should bring that gift back every time I talk about the show. How they do things in the family, Yes. What were some of your favorite moments in the episode? Look, you know, I love a naval battle Master and commommander reatchable that that was a Dciperable I thought they did the I think that's incredibly challenging. Yeah. I mean, I could not I was watching it just marveling over the the labor of storyboarding that and understanding it and then communicating it to us. On multiple scales, there's the large scale of there are many boats here and then there's the medium scale of there are boats here and here and also a dragon here And then it all crushes andossibly close when the boats are ramming into each other and people are boarding the boats, and it's hand to hand combat Um My favorite visual storytelling in it was the dragons touching the water and then being dragged into the water. and like the feeling of something that is meant to fly being way down was really beautifully communicated, incredibly gripping to watch Um, As always, I'm always like, but what about that guy? What does he think as he's getting roasted alive, you know with an ore in his hand Um But it was an action episode. And I do think that it was challenging that this was, as you said, most likely meant to be conclusion and is instead a very rhythmically tonally odd place to begin. all the way back to my first comment I love that Ryan Condall's instincts are to start small. J just to start with, o, what's her name, chasing after what's his name, The Big Dragon that eats meat. Ryna. Sure I first of all, I just want to say in front of you and Kya and all of our listeners, I've been wondering what was up with Reyna for years You know, I've been literally two years. two years I've been like, that's a character that I've been tracking. I know who she's related to and what she's doing. Yeah. So it felt really good as a super fan to understand her relationship. alsoso one dragon. If there was a couple what what were the things that you were like? I don't know what this is or who this is. Do shouldhould we cover the show that way? CCause do you remember when we did the afterfter showhow for Game of Thrones? I do on HBO, and we had was short lived. stillill funny. We had a category called Who the fuck was that?? Um, shouldh we kind of broaden that category and bring it back for me just saying the fuck Sure Be way I feel like now I'm pretty well informed about it. Yeah I definitely did not remember who she was, why she was there, and what was up with the dragon that didn't have a saddle I have no memory of that. I thought that she was going. She had been sent out to the vale with like her brothers, I think. Yeah And is like was pretty bummed because she hadn't claimed a dragon yet I believe Aamond took her dragon or took the to like jumped on Vagar and was like, that's my dragon. That's my guy. Yeah Um, I remember that. And yeah, and the lady Jane of the veil was kind of like you can like get You can walk through here, but keep walking like I don't want you to stay here. R. And I think she breaks off from her party at the end of season to and finds a wild dragon. Sheep stealer. I want to say. I feel like that's a he's giving sheep stealer, not mooonancer U I'm just saying like this is the part of the George R. Martin verse that they didn't show to in New York in the HBO office in twenty twelve. because if they had walked in and they were like, we got Moonancer. we got sheep stealer. We have the Battle of the Gllet, he would have been like first of all He would have been like, boy, the age of the expense lunch in Nework will never end. I love it here at the four seasons. I'm sure it'll stay unchanged. You know what I mean? Like this is deep L. I'm just try to help you out. I appreciate it. I thought that the Battle of the Gallet was cool Rainna. gettingting involved. probably the wrong move Yeah, that seems that way. It seems that way I appreciate it like again, as a kind of a noob to this, like I likek the sheep stealer was like, what are we doing? We burning f? I would do two things. steal sheep and like guys all the sheep. You know what I mean? Like I appreciated that because I have forever been a little bit I've forever struggled with the fact that the dragons are like wild, ferocious, mythical, carnivorous beasts. But if you whisper made up Latin in their ears, they're suddenly like tactical Howitzers. one that I did not know that I would have done who the fuck is that? And I did do that on Tal the Thrones was the Stark, who' the dude threw ahead to Damon had no idea that was. And apparently we knew that head was. That's the Lannister twin One twin was on the boat One twin was in Aad day to be a Lannister. Yeah Um We met the, I mean, I remember the one on the boat. I enjoyed him All right sureure, yeah. But the one whose head we saw A speaking part on the show last year I want to say yes. Do you think the actor got his episodic fee his latex head being thrown to Matt Smith. That's a great question. in this day and age of Hollywood cost cutting, I can't say I imagine we'll be hearing from Casey at HBO after this segment and I wonder if you could just weigh in specifically on that. I think he's going be like just wanted to let you guys know I'm never listening watch your done cut off. Anything else you want to did on Drag? I gu I guess where do you stand? Is this going to be a weekly watch for you You tell me, Doug, I live to serve I just I definitely don't want to and nor are listeners. I don't wantan to keep. I don't want to. I think there's like when it's euphoria There's something perversely like fun about like watching you lose your mind but also be like, I can't look away. With this, it's like you've done your time, man. And I think that you will continue to to join us for Night of the Seven Kingdom Season two and all these things, I just don't I just don't think TV should be a homework assignment. We'll keep them guessing. Let's go to Star City again. We can just hit this relatively quickly, although I will echo my sentiments from last week If you were watching television and you were not watching this show, you are not watching the best show on television. To me, it is the My favorite thing that's on currently O obviously what has Bage just concluded. And you haven't watched seeason two of Suar yet. I have I mean, fire up the first episode? It's it is up I've not fired it out. Okay. read I read with like real affection, Mike Hale's review of the New York Times where he's like Isn't it great to have the show? Every once in a while, you just like I read with real affection his review of it, I was like, man, maybe we are too cooked here because he was just like Colin Farrell's back is a detective in LA. and it's classy and it's fun to watch. And there was a fun twist in season one N's like me man Maybe I gotta chill out. You know, for sugar, Not for dragons though. No, I'm right about that. Anyway, I continue to I will sing Star Cities' praises from the mountaintops. This was the fifth episode. It was called Bite Your Elbow and it is probably say like the culmination of some of the Eespionage mole hunt storylines of the first part of this season. and you know I I guess I wanted to hit how I don't want to keep saying the same thing about these shows, but What it does is play hits in a way that sounds really good to me Multiple scenes in this in this episode. I'm like I've seen this before. Yeah. I've seen the mole get told by his significant other or someone very close to him Everybody is on time to run and it's time to run And yet I thought the vala Tanya seen outside of the training center was fucking incredible. Now, like, is it goofy how vala like kidnaps a guy and gets himself onto this But space rocket launch, yeah, for sure. underwell. I push back on that. shows create their own narrative reality. and soon as as soon as Star City puts in play that whoever gets onto this secret mission inside of a Bathosphere will be gone for nine months and thus protected from the environments at home and abroad I knew where the episode was going was how you was going to get on the ship? The question is, how is was it going to get there? And I agree with you completely about the familiarity of some of the storytelling Delightful is the way that it's deployed. Yes. For example, I did not know that this episode would begin one second after the revelation of the previous episode I did not know that the moment in which Irinna holds all the information and Valia, and Tanyia, and everyone else do not Many shows would have milked one, two or three episodes out of that and seeing how that plays out This Star City chose to do the opposite. Yeah. And here's a name I'm going to throw out for you. and it is might not be familiar if it's not written in Cyrillic Uh, Zach Wheeler. Zach Wheeler is a yes. And Chris, what I often hear when veteran Zach Wheeler takes the hill. is that there's a difference between throwing and pitching And you can throw Like your boy that you saw Milwakee Mizerowski who he was fucking pitching man. Okay, that's fair. But that dude could throw one hundred and four miles per hour anyt timee he wants Zach Wheeler Not only has lost a few MPH on his fastball, he's also lost a rib to thoracic oututlet syyndrome and is still painting the corners because he knows what to do with it And I think part of the joy of watching Star City is seeing how this creative team is pitching Yeah and is keeping us on our toes and surprising us with with timing and placement And more than anything else, as they also say in the non money ball versions of baseball, like kids got good stuff. It really does. The scene between Irinna and Tanya in the beginning of the episode, the season where Irina gets Arita gets caught by her annoying coworker and then flips it on her. Um All the stuff with Sasha and Anastasio is quite lovely Like these are all scenes that I feel like, you know, I've been kind of go throughout time and history. U I did want to ask you about one of the last moments of the episode. Did you recognize who's in the photo that Tanya grabs there I was that Pjnav? Is that my guy Leonid? Is he the father Yeah, we're get we're we're playing now. Yeah. this is crazy I mean, it's not crazy. It's just it's that was do you think Russian preremiere? Yeah. Do you think Eel the network executives were like, could we just get an ADR of her going, My God, That'sres was returned. Yeah. I love that. I also want to shout out just againgain, in the spirit of it's like, it's really how you deploy the story that you have The direction of the show is beautiful. This is Cassia Adamic directed this. I'm not familiar with her, but you know, as part of my fully tongue in cheek now Nepppo watchatch. She is Agnesa' Holland's daughter I have a great Polish director. She directed the shit out of this. and it's like largely hand held There's a shot Here's my pure cinema awward of the day But there is the moment when Erinna is deleting the tapes that have her saying that she's going to help Tanya escape And she has this whole plan to get her a day pass and everything. and to. office mate, I guess, not mate, like not friend at all playayed by who's Yagarovka is her name, played by Elliot Salt. she's watching. But the way the way that the camera notifies us of this is it tracks and this is like the long secretarial pool, essentially of builduilding twelve Areinna leaves And then the camera stays and then it slowly tracks back up to see who did or didn't notice her le Yes It is such a beautiful natural example of visual storytelling of a paranoid state. But even then that case, it's like, yeah, if she's done this once, she's not going to get away with it the second time. but like The fact that she built a file in Valia, that she was willing to sacrifice Valia for Tanya's escape. Why is she so enamored with Tanya? Is she have romantic feelings for her? Is it just infatuation with her free spirit? What is it that we're going to find out about her Um It's an exciting moment because I don't For as much as I'm like, well, I've seen that before and I've seen that before, but it's done very well. I don't really remember a moment where uh, a American mole is in a spaceship that's not really a spaceship with two new Russian onene Russian cosmonaut and then a woman who's never been in space before and they're going to be up in space for nine months. The chief designer is okay with part of that plan, but does not know that's an American mole. then Irinna knows like everything but is only telling her superior some of it. Just a lot of like moving pieces and it's a very exciting setup for the second half of the season. And all of this is in service of a plotline that involves sending people to Venus which did not know was a cool goal to have. haveave done a little light Googling. Do not seem particularly hospitable to human life. No we can't say though No, I think we can definitively say. we can't say because we haven't been, right Oh, I don't think it's the same as me being like, I've heard southern Italy is nice but hot. Yeah I've yet to ve I mean, there is the line when the dudess like I shall be the one to plant the Soviet flag. would. Your body would explode in flames Um, It is a I mean What is the most off book thing that you've ever done when in the employee of someone else because whatever it is, I don't think it equals sending three cosmonauts to fucking Venus at the expense of like three million rubles. becausecause the point is they're launching this vessel. and then at some point in the nine months, chief designer is gonna to say to old Leonid or his you his cloth. He's going say like I had a secret mission to Venus that I had to do so secretly because the Americans were surrounding us and starting to get information about Star City. So to take this great next leap for the Soviet sppace program I alone did this. donon't blame anybody else. And then What is What's going to happen when they find out actually an American spy is on that ship? What is the equivalent movie that you and I would do for the rewatchables in a pirate recording put up when Bill is on vacation. I mean, we did kicking and screaming. No I'm well aware. but I'm just like that we did that was a sanctioned mission. Yes. Is there something that you and I would, I mean, would it just be born leegacy? Like what is the most It would probably be born legacy at this point What if it was like Can you imagine doing the reatchables categories on the early filmography of Heell Hartley Honestly, with from Hellmonth, we're not that far away. I'm from Hellmonth You do your best work at the end of the podcast Do you want to talk about England having its United Kingdom having its six Pime minister seven years or seven seventh in ten years Yeah What was our other after Dark segment that we were gonna to do? Oh, live here, Rodrigo.eron, you explain that to me Well shey I guess she did an interview with Anthony Fantano and people were like, music journalism is dead because she look at us, we agree. I mean she's done lots of interviews. I don't know really what the problem is, but Is a written interview or a video interview where she's just like, I love Pinkerton and he was like,h you're a Pinkerton fan And people are like, this is ' apparently I'm still canceled. U so this is for those who are th Wh whyy was pickkeered and canceled becausecause it was a it's a creeper record. So Weeezer. I think he knows that, right? Yeah, but but so I don't understand is this scandal that she's that the fans are like Olivia by publicly sanctioning and supporting Rivers Cuomo's thirty year old creepy raincoat lust for young Asian women in record form, you have thus perpetuated the patriarchy? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's like for me It just sounds really good The record? Yeah. It' a good record. I'm just sorry. Am I not allowed to say that it's a good record? It sounds really good It's set listen look at the politics. You can't comment on the content of the man character. Not me? Cn me Dg I think it's just interesting because Wezer is not inexplicably like much like the I loveove it I don't care song Wheezers's twenty song on that record it was like, you come from Japan. Like isn't it it's like kind of like that's all the song on my guy Yes. But But much like that, I don't care I love it song. Wezer's otherwise unremarkable twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen duet with Bethany from Best Coast, the song Go awayay Is there number It's like what happened with Pavement with with the you know a random relatively random songs suddenly gets resurfaced. And Harness H is your hope. Hartest hes. Yeah. So go away So that was It is a huge TikTok song. It is on my daughter's like core playlist. Okay. And they're savvy enough that on their new record, they have a very, very similar duet with Carly, W with Carly from Wednesday. Yeah. And I of course I am just fucking every cartoon character with a yar for. you were like actually You know there's azer song. It's not too dissimilar and Carlly's pretty cool. She's got some tattoos. maybe we could listen to this deead zone. Yeah. uninterested. But my point being, is the danger that somehow this is going to like a hard ass's like, we're not getting out of this car until you respect late period RiversQo song. I'm going say something at this end of the podcast that I think is just between us just between us us Mice here. Yeah K. Kai is Red in. Yeah. Kai is Oerta. My older daughter is not in the car. Younger daughter is like That vampire weekend song is pretty good. Oh Wow So some like every spring, fresh buds bloom. You know what I mean? And just like one single tear roll down your eye. like No, it's just allergies. Thank you That would be the best case. The other The worst case is, Oh, what's on my phone? My two thousand seven Spin magazine cover story on Vampire Weekend titled The Graduates. I'll just leave this here in the back seat playing Robox. Is' fine? Itsike I don't know how to read. I' watching this s. Where's the video interview of this? Yeah. I just want to say I My favorite show other than Star City is British politics. Me too. I don't really understand how you guys keep doing this. I think it's cool that You're never satisfied. you never you're always chasing perfection. Yeah, you know. By the way, happy ten year anniversary to Brexit. That's right. But Burnham is the king of the North, right? And he is, you know, you former Manchester mayor and he's riding south to join parliament. and Kir Star has stepped down today today to clear the field And is going to be essentially handing over the reins to him. Now, then Burnham has what, two more years to run Yes, before there's a general election, I believe, unless they call They do it every four or five years there. I don't understand. I don't think' I think we're thrown because because you can replace them midstream and you can like if the' going write enough negative articles about you, you' just be like, I guess I have to stop. I have to stop being here. , do you wantan to just patch in Mickey and Conrad and see if they want to weigh in on this? No, I know. I just I think it's fascinating, but can I say my favorite Andy Burnham fact, Of course King of the North coming down. first of all, it is so sick that you can be like Every Eone has been a like everyone in the Starmerverse has been so afraid of this happening. Yeah. and in order for it to happen, Andy Burnham had to like basically run to be the representative of Montgomery County. Yeah, you know, and just be like, guess I'll just rejoin Parliament for no reason and then wins a parliament seat last week. and then gets on the Manchester to London train. Yes, wearing a just like casual t shirt, gets off the train wearing a crisp suit Like he stepped into a phone booth, but my favorite detail, Chris was that he the train goes into Houston station which is where I was commuting a lot Last fall. That local I think it's okay even as an American to say that London has some, first of all, trains We are not crit They criticize the trains compared to what we literally hard to. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah The train station' there Many of them are very beautiful. And even the ones that aren't like necessarily gorgeous, like Paddington are like incredibly efficient. Liverpool streets Bustling, getting it done Houston is the ass end of the universe. Houston is Penn station twenty years ag. It's like everybody looking at the board and then when the board's like, this is with track it's on, one hundred thousand people run. Yes