Sports fandom and closing thoughts

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I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me in the studio . Now his day shift has ended. It's Andy Greenwald ! How are you? Good brother. It's been a minute. You're back. I am back, yeah. I was in San Francisco. I was in Denver. I've seen the West. Yeah, what do you think? We're all doing great. Uh Whoa, this is breaking news. Socially, economically, everything is solid. Yeah, good. Air travel, I've heard was good. You know, honestly it wasn't that bad. They they they're keeping it together everywhere. Denver airport did not see any Illuminati uh there. It's supposedly the headquarters. Were you doing your research for Paradise Season 3? I was. I was. Did you see the horse? Uh the horse? The demon horse outside of the airport? No, that's the thing is like none of this, like it's just all I noted about the Denver airport is I think it could be closer to Denver. Because in between Denver and the airport, it's just like a lot of Costco's. I didn't see much that was like, well, can't have a plane land here. Right. Uh but yeah, other than that, Denver, lovely place. This is your note. Go you go to the CEO of Costco and tell him he has to move his five outlets. I don't think the Costco has been there for like a hundred and twenty years. You know what I mean? Like it seemed like a pretty new build. You don't think it's a landmark? No. Uh it's wonderful to see you. I haven't seen you in a while. I know. I've changed. How have you changed? You're gonna find out over the course of this hour. I have some news and stuff for you, like from the television and entertainment world, but I wanted to just kind of feel you out. Did you say what we're gonna do? We're gonna do Hey, we're gonna do uh the pit finale, obviously. Welcome to where that happens. And also we're gonna talk about Top Chef. We're also gonna talk about an out-of-nowhere appearance of a new series from Eric Rochant, who is responsible for one of our favorite TV shows of all time. Yes, Le Bureau. The Bureau. Uh, the French spy drama. He has a new show on Netflix. I had no fair, no fair warning, no, no heads up. Uh just saw it that it was trending uh on Netflix, that it was in the top 10. Then I checked our email inbox. There were a couple of like, dude, is there a new show from Eric Rochant? I did a little bit of digging into this. It's an interesting story, but we can get to that. Um Bandy. It's called Bandy. It's on Netflix. And and we should also say at the top, we are going to cover two buzzed about new series on Monday. Which are Margot's Got Money Problems. And Buff. It's the French adaptation of Beef. Can I tell you? Yeah. Beef's getting beef's getting grilled. That sounds delicious. The critics do not do not like beef. They really? Yeah. It was aged too long? I will I mean there's some diversity of opinion, but uh and that's what this country is all about, you know? You learned that in your travels of the West. But uh it's largely being disliked, being panned. Wow. Yeah. Huh. How do you feel about that? Do you still take critical critical consensus as like a directional for you? No. I do that with NFL draft coverage, but I do not do that for the first time. I was gonna ask you about this. We could save that for after dark if you want. I have a lot of draft thoughts. My big television headline , obviously CinemaCon this week, so there's a lot of movie news. I have mixed feelings about Cinemacon. I'm very happy that Sean and Amanda are there. I'm honestly a little bit jealous. Yeah. I don't know if I'd want to be in Vegas for four days, but it is cool that they get to see stuff. On the other hand, I don't know if I want to digest movies that like here's a sneak seven minutes of the Odyssey. See you in three months. Well, there's also is there any world in which you are shown the first ten minutes of apparently the saving private Ryan-esque opening of Dune three? Yeah. And you're like, it's kinda mid. Like it's it's designed to make people interested. Now I'll see it. Okay, you guys got me. You know? So I I uh I think out of my feeling of uh inadequacy of not being there, yeah, I'm also like it's not for me. I wouldn't do it anyway. If they even if they invited me. I invented that move. Um but uh there's you know, obviously a bunch of stuff coming out of it. Uh Dune Three, the Odyssey screen some stuff. Sounds like it went very well. Uh I saw that the Thomas Crown affair, some footage from that was played. Uh the Michael B. Jordan remake of that. Starring your Maxima, Adrian Arriona . Uh which is not Maxima. I think it's Wonder Woman. It's it sounds like it's gonna be Wonder Woman. Van is gonna comment and be like, get off my corner again. But I'm pretty sure . Um I was thinking I have to go to New York soon. You are just a man . And I was thinking of seeing uh Gene Gray AK Yes. In uh Romeo and Juliet. I think she was in London. I think that's in London. I thought it was in Broadway. Well Well we'll find out when I show up at that really reasonably priced theater . And I'm like, one ticket for Romeo and Juliet, please. Maybe you could watch it. You know they have that thing in some cities where they have like the like the the camera that's on it in another city. And you can like see maybe they could do that for the like really expensive Broadway tickets or less. If you just peer into it, you could watch Paddington the musical. Yes. Somewhere at South Street. And then I'll go to London to watch Burnthal on Dog Day. Might improve it. Uh I have one or two TV oriented news bits for you, but did you want to say anything about the Do you have any advance again based on nothing that we've seen? But apparently they did screen a trailer or some footage of Tom Cruise's return to Capital Act. Right. Yeah. Is this like the second screen experience where you want people to go to Twitter to see that? No, I just like I like Sean's tweet kinda said it all. It was like, it seems like Tom Cruise is playing Jer ry Jones, the Dallas Cowboys owner, in a movie directed by Michael Bay. And I was like, well, that's gonna take me a couple of weeks to process. Yeah, exactly. Okay, there was that. Um and then so I think there's like that and then what was the other one? Oh, for me personally, the most exciting news is that uh Gareth Evans, who did the raid movies, um, is directing a remake of Occult is my passport, which is a Japanese Yakuza crime film. And uh have you seen that film? No. Sean said that it looked like John Woo meets uh a d like set in Detroit. I feel like you're gonna be first in line. I'm excited for that. I also have some break ing news. Yeah. Sadie Sink is currently starring at the Herald Pinter Theater on the West End in London. Okay. So I'd like to I just wonder would you like to revise your earlier comment in which you said and I'm just paraphrasing I have to be in New York soon to see Sadie Sink. And while I'm there, I just didn't say while I'm there, I thought I might check in. My initial idea we had talked about going to see Dog Day. Yeah. Uh I want to see I want to see Giant too. You know what? I'm not a doll guy. Everybody's like, and then giant opens. And I'm just not a roll doll guy. I don't think roll doll like It's a movie about a raging anti-Semite. So I don't think you should be like big doll guy. Can't wait to see how his legacy has been protected on stage. But I I just mean like g getting under the hood there is not is not in the top 100 things I want to do. Do you not see Hamlet because you're not a big Danish monarchy guy? Come on, bro.' Its not's not the same thing. It the same thing. But they're not like, yo, this is as good as Hamlet. But I think that there's a part of you that's worried that there's going to be a chocolate factory on stage or a couple oompa loompas telling you half the story. I that was that crossed my mind. I know. There's no giant piece. Is it Lithgow? It's Lithgow. Wow. My colleague. Your boy. Yeah. Yeah. That guy has a lot of energy. Yeah. I would just say that if I had spent nine months filming a massive television show, I'd take a rest. Yeah. And I'm a lot younger than him. And our our friend Aya Cash isn't. That's really good. That's cool. I don't know why we're doing theater advertising before we talk about that. I just I just really feel like there's a little more uh meat on the bone of the use you announcing to your wife and colleagues that you must travel to New York to see Sadie Sink maker Shakespeare debut. Look, man, I'm just I'm just trying to figure out where you're at, so I'm throwing a lot of stuff up at the wall. You're liking where you're finding me. Hey, they announce what's happening on the white Lotus this next season, and I just thought I'd mention to you uh season four will take place during the Canned Film Festival. Love it. I think they're gonna do some shooting there. That was some of the words, which is coming up in a couple Yeah. Uh they're shooting they're currently in production. I believe it did start production and it is going to be the first season of White Lotus that takes place at two White Lotus properties. Oh. Um so White Low T tie. One in Saintropez and one at the Croissette in Cannes. Have you ever been to the South of France? Yes. Yes, I have. Thank you for asking. And what year was it when you were there? My take? Yeah. A model for American students. Well, I don't have to. There's a ceiling on how much white lotus like I can talk about. Now that urbanism has fallen, the real model for how our society should live is Provence. Okay ? That's my take. I had this . It's very, very beautiful and the beaches are cold. I was not in Cannes. I was in. Were you try are you were you doing work for the British government? Why are you hearing where we were? No, I f you you fly to Nice and then you do a little traveling along the coast. I didn't like to Nice. I took a train. Wow. Yeah. Well, okay, Joe Biden. How was that for you? Do you think it would be funny if like we just all JD Vance did for the rest of his term uh was go to different places in the world and fuck things up by like trying to like do the opposite. I think the OP, I mean, funny is doing a lot of work. No, I don't mears and stuff. I mean like the Cannes Filestim Fval. And as vice president of the Canned Jury, he gives the pom d'or to Fokker in law. Yeah, exactly. I uh I love that. I also this is not really in our bailiwick, but I do love the fact that uh that m Mrs. uh Kirk had to bail out a TP I'm I'm more polite than you, out of a out of a turning point event. And her backup plan was the vice president of the United States. Yes. So good. So good. We are doing great. Um I think it's a beautiful place. I think it's a great, great location for the show and also a kind of a cool idea to tie it more firmly to something other than people's bettering themselves uh vacation. Aaron Ross Powell Do you think there will be any studio -esque cameos? I did wonder about that. We are definitely in a golden age of shows suddenly all seeming to have the budget to just do a week or two in Europe. Yeah. Well, isn't that because it's cheaper to shoot there than it is to shoot in the genuine it is but here's a genuine production question. Like I don't think that the studio decamped to Venice for six weeks because it was cheaper. I think they did it because they win Emmys and it's Apple and they have a blank check. But I am hearing more and more of shows that just like do a little splinter unit and not like a splinter unit into um you know San Bernardino or something. Like actually they go to London to shoot the London scenes. And I don't understand how that is in any way saving money. I think it's just spending and money and flashing cash, which is all right. There's been a lot of really interesting stuff on the tr in the trades this week about like I cause I think a lot of the producers who are at Cinemacon have been asked about like, are you gonna do anything to save Los Angeles? And I don't know why I've been thinking about this much because I maybe it has something to do with like this whole Arc Light protest that turned into a potential lawsuit that you know is now kind of everybody's throwing their hands up and it's just been like, looks like that's just gonna that landmark to cinema will just stand. If that was Nithia's whole platform, she would win. But uh there's also been a lot of talk about um because I think some of the networks are in pilot season, weirdly. Yeah. Uh well, like, are you gonna shoot this here? Are you gonna shoot this in LA? Will you use the studios? And a lot of noncommittal, like, well, we need a federal tax break and we need and you know, rebates on above the line talent. And I just don't know what happened to the game I loved. You know, like I don't know how why they fucked this up so much that they're like, well, we can't make it unless you guys pay for Johnny Galicki to like be in the show, you know? That's his name, right? Yeah, you're good. Was that is this like this is a uh just kind of a recycled NBA take that that's too international for you now? No, it's but it's just like I don't know why Scrubs is rebooting the reboot of Scrub shoots in Vancouver. Like it does? Also, wild pronunciation there. You're still thinking about Vancouver? I usually I like that. Vancouver. I think you're thinking of Van. Yeah. I think he's living rent-free in your head. He is, he is. Um Does it really? Yeah. That's that's pretty wild to me. Because I would feel like something like a re because the only thing anyone's spending money on, obviously, is um what they believe to be safe bets.. Procedurals Procedurals and reboots of sitcoms and things. And I I'm I'm not saying that that Zach Braff was like turning down other offers to do this show, but I am saying that generally when people are asked to come back to fill to fill a role that only they can play. They have enough cloud to say, I would like a commute that doesn't involve a border crossing. There's also just not that big of a shortage of studio space in Hollywood right now and back lots of things and we are hearing like from you know anecdotally and from people that like peop people who are working on the lots, uh you can hear the wind rattling around in the empty office. Johnny Carson's ghost just Johnny Galecki. He's like, this will be perfect. Um so anyway, that's cool. I my I I hope White Lotus doesn't do the thing that everyone is doing again. Like it it runs through this town like a virus every few years, which is like, ah, I will I will entertain with a withering satire of the industry I am in. I think like we're good on that for the most part. So I hope that the White Lotus doesn't go too far in that direction, but great cast, great setting, it'll be fine. Uh Mike White, I wonder how being on Survivor will affect you know his his production this year. You'd have to weigh in on that. Well he was he's no longer on it, you know, uh on this season. I didn't know. And but he is jacked. Did I tell you that? You sent me a image. Yeah, I was like, how did he do this? To be clear, it's not weird. Chris has sent me pictures of Mike White beachside for years. It's more of like an onman tracking. Yeah. It's not biohacking Mike White . We cannot become Mike White, but we can recreate his torso in aggregate. Oh Christ. That's good stuff. I have a question for you. Okay. You jump in at any point. If you feel like I'm if you're like we're taking us in different directions. Look me in the eye. Take a take a sip of coffee and then and I'm gonna ask the the group here as well. Okay. Yeah. Are you gonna read Luna Dun Dunham's memoir? No. Fame sick? I'm not. Have you been intrigued by it? Intrigued mean voraciously consume all content outside of reading. Why not read the memoir? Because you feel like you can get it's like reading literary criticism where you get both a book and the theories about it. That is a deep kicking and screaming reference and I respect it. Oh, is it? Yeah, right. Sorry. I just pictured Igaman. Well, no, it's more like I am not that interested, but I am also human. Yeah. It's that kind of thing. Where are you with it? I wasn't. And then I was like, I kind of would like to read about the making of girls. Yeah. It's a very specific moment in TV history. Also, just want to hear about Jamaica Kirk and Zosha Mammoth living together. Uh and and that apparently not going well . I uh obviously have read a lot of the the aggregated stuff about Driver and about the the making of the show. I don't know how much post girls lean and dunham I need. Like Aaron Powell How much of the memoir is dedicated to directing the pilot of industry during the pandemic? It's like I gotta go control F industry. But then it'll probably be a lot of stuff about industries. Other industries. Coal. Shipping. I've got to read this now . Damn it. Kaya. Yeah, where are you, Kaya? Oh, I'm I'm on the wait list at my library. I'm I'm ready to go. So will you give us a report? Sure. I like doing the audiobook while she drives around. Did Lena read her own audiobook? I think so. It would be amazing. It would be funny if Jemima Kirk read it. She was like, wait, that's me, mate. That was her Jeremiah Kirk invitation from Vancouver. It's Jemima Kirk. Uh Jemima Kirk. I I thought the I thought her interview with David Marchese in the Times this weekend was fascinating. And I it does sound like for as much as it it sounds like she's in a in a healthier place. And certainly the perspective that she's bringing to this is on par with the kind of savage uh self surgery that she's done for much of her career. Um there was something in the way that she was talking about what she felt she had to do and what fame did to her and what being an artist has done to her and what it continues to do that did make me feel on a human level , because this is someone that I've I've met and spoken to and liked a lot, that maybe sometimes you should do something else or just direct or something. Like there there is this constant We never do, do we? No, look at us. We're on camera. But but that but I I found you're doing great. I did find the like the it just felt it some of it felt really rough. Yeah. And and that is interesting to her to continue to mine, but I f I felt empathy more than lurid interest, I guess if I'm gonna be serious about it when I read it. What are you reading instead? What am I reading instead? Yeah. I've got a great book, man. It's over there. I'm reading this book called Uh Lives of the Saints by Nancy Lemon. Okay. It's awesome. Is it new? Uh no, it's her first book from the 80s, but she has a new book out also from New York Review books called Oyster Diaries. And she's it's one of those things where like Jeff Dyer writes the intro and is like, eventually the long arm of time returns masterpieces to print. I'm like, yeah, let's go. So MYRB, are you going exclusive MYRB right now? I'm negotiating with them. I would like to get an exclusive look. I have never more desperately begged for a brand endorsement. Like I would wear that on my uniform. Is it Rwanda for the Sixers? They are yes. And they are uninterested in that this kind of sponsorship right now. I don't know why. But that's a great book. Why would they not be interested in you? You talk about MYRB more than you talk about like Because I think you know what their you know what you know what I think their point is? And I don't know this because I've never spoken to the the great men in Yeah. I don't think they need to pay me because look at me. Oh, yeah, that's the problem. This is the problem with influencing is you have to withhold your influence until you're paid for. And you know me, I'm very generous with my influence. Well, uh one thing that I feel like we can take like the smallest amount of credit for influencing is the fact that the Bureau has got like a degree of domestic I look, I'm not saying that we were ever like the dudes who brought the bureau across the pond and were like, sirs, like what we discovered. That was our predecessors at the AMC network. That's right. Are we ready to announce or not yet? Um but LiBiro obviously Eric Rochant's spy drama from a few years ago, it's celebrating its 10th anniversary in 2025, I believe. It did, yeah. Yes. Um and just still an absolute diamond of a television show that I think about all the time is currently being remade as an in an English language as the agency on Paramount Plus. Which is a sign of a great source material where I'm enjoying watching the show again in English. Absolutely. I can't wait for the second season. I think it will improve on the first. Um and he's got a new show on Netflix. Now, I had initially started this as this is the problem with Netflix. They don't tell us about these things. Like where where was the trailer? Where was the drumbeat of from the critically acclaimed creator of Libero? Did a little bit of reading into this, although it was hard to come by. And it does seem like Rashant has had he's got a production company called Maui and over the last couple of years has shepherded or, you know, kind of co-created or co-executive produced or whatever, several shows, some of which like there's one that's on Disney Plus, I believe. Um and that like it's this is not like the first thing he has done, you know, since the the bureau went off the air or anything. Just just to interject, like I do think the reason we're talking about him is because it's for the same reason we talked about Pluribus. In the sense that like when people who have created truly great art within this medium that we cover do the next thing, it's worth our attention. Like I said, I got an email in our inbox about Bandy. I saw that it was the number seven and now number eight show on Netflix. I was sort of surprised that I hadn't heard about what it was. Doing a little bit of research into it, it's created by Rashad and his daughter. Yeah. Capusine. Capucin . And it is in his own words, self-consciously, a effort on his part to make something in the top boy Peaky Blinders Netflix genre. Yeah. You know, of sprawling crime drama, intergenerational one family moving through like a cityscape. So obviously, Top Boy set in London, Peaky Blender Blinders set in Birmingham. This is set in Mart inique and is about the Le Fleur family. Uh a rather large family in Martinique eleven kids, yes, ranging from like six or seven to early twenties. Who are grappling with a family tragedy and deciding where to go with the family in terms of the legitimacy of like their family business. Um, there's like a central kid played um there's a central kid named Killian, I believe. Kiki. Kiki, whose um his like street name is Malord . Uh and he is getting into the drug business and finding out about like the international drug trade out of Martinique. Uh I watched the first episode last night. You checked it out this morning. What'd you what'd you think? Yeah, I uh first of all, making a TV show with your daughter, come on. Goals. That's so sweet. So I'm already all the way in. Um what What if you were like, I don't like this kind of nepotism and I I w I won't even watch the show? Uh what if I was like that? Would you want me to do the rest of the show in character? No, but like if it was his son, would you be like God, I'm I'm not so I'm not so into this. I did just feel my whole self go cold. I just completely lost interest. Um I found well big picture, I think incredibly exciting anytime um Netflix's budget and cameras go to a place that we don't spend a lot of time in and so the show looks beautiful. It's in Martinique, a place that I would like to spend more time in. And it is taking us in backstreets and homes and bars , and just bringing a place to life in the way that international crime fiction can do and international crime television can do that I found really, really exciting. I think they've managed to find some really exciting charismatic actor s, at least even through just one episode. And many nonprofessional actors. Yeah, and I I am intrigued. I would say that for people who are hearing all of our raves about it, I would reset expectations just to say that one of the things about Li Bureau that was really, really remarkable over time is Rashant's, again, not unlike this is the one thing that I would compare to Vince Gilligan, very, very interested in minutiae and bureaucracy and process. And so the show is very A to B to C to D about introducing this huge swath of characters in a place we've never been. And a lot of the potential is ahead.. Mm-hmm So it really does a yeoman-like job of setting the groundwork for something that it could be interesting. And um but I but I'll say that like I didn't feel energized and exhilarated at the end of it. There's not a lot of um wit or surprise or verve. What there is is a lot of solid story building and a lot of promising leads and a canvas that I would like to see him. In the first episode, if you watch a lot of like criminal underworld TV or even a fair amount, it like a lot of very familiar meets. You know, a lot of like one brother who is going one direction and another brother who's going another, there's like the sort of mysterious drug lord who takes Malord under his wing. There is a lot of uh just basically like you know mechanics that you would be familiar with if you've watched like power, if you've watched a a top boy or what whatever it is, I think that um the thing that jumped out at me wasn't really, and this isn't really a critique because I think it's a really interesting gambit, but I do think that working with a lot of non-professional actors puts the show at a little bit of a disadvantage if it's also going to be a little bit cliche in its story. Yeah it's a good thing. Now that being said, like if you watch the first episode of the Bureau, you might say like this is a lot like a lot of spy shows I've seen before. And obviously it changed. So I'm gonna keep checking out episodes of Bandy, but yeah, it was a little bit of a letdown in so much as I had five minutes of knowing it existed before I checked it out and then was like, oh, okay, maybe this isn't like on the level of Libero yet or whatever. And maybe that's not the intention. You know, it it also is a show, you know what the other thing we that we might be responding to slightly? I think everything we've said about it is is probably that's the top line headline and is valid. But I do think that we are still, despite our interest in international shows, we are increasingly unused to seeing pilots that don't have to make the case for themselves within the first fifty minutes. Right. This is a episode of television that was clearly written knowing there were going to be seven more and potentially twenty to thirty to forty more due to his stature or due to his confidence. I mean it's not hasn't been renewed, but I'm but then what pilots are required to do these days in this country, in this industry, is set off the entire sky full of fireworks . Uh yes. And then it leaves everyone who's making the show being like, well, now what's the series? Because I burned it all in the first 56 minutes. This show does not burn it all in the first 56 minutes, and I respect that. Um I was gonna mention that there is still talk that uh he is going to return to the world of espionage in a 2025 interview I read w with Rashant he was talking about a show called Secret World I believe that he was working on which was going to be about agents from five different countries. But he spoke very eloquently in this interview about how the paradigm of spy fiction and spy spy stories has essentially shifted and is changing almost faster than a TV show can capture. And that, you know, like essentially, you know, if you went back six months and were like, what's the state of AI last octo, you know, in October versus today? It would be so different. And even the global, you know, the the global stage and and the changes that have happened in the Middle East, like it would be very difficult to document that or to reflect that in a TV show. So I think he's maybe not struggling with it, but is is adjusting to it. I mean it was interesting. I think f now five, six years ago, he had a a pilot . It's called the Chinese Room. Um that was And um one of the reasons he was doing it is because you know you could see in each season of Li Bureau, he was like the aperture kept getting wider as he was both realizing and engaging with changing, shifting tides in the world, and the antagonists kept changing and who is actually behind it and who is ascendant in in the world, and he hadn't really dealt with China's role in global SVNI. No, I mean , the terms of the show is to interconnect like Russia and Syria and Iran. Yeah. Trevor Burrus, so I I hope we hear more from him. I I think that to that point, and more from him in the spy space. But to that point, this is a subtle detail, but one thing that I appreciated in the bandy pilot is that the fact that all characters have cell phones is a part of the story in a way that doesn't feel intrusive. No . Time and time again, you will see pilots or probably movies too, where the writers are like, I yearn for a world where characters weren't constantly on their phones, thus I will create it on screen except for the time my one character has to call the other character. Yes. And so you feel that artificiality. Sometimes it can be fine and you don't notice it, but I I it's important, I think, to notice when it's done relatively casually and normally and easily. It feels very baked into the world. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever have a plan come together out of nowhere and realize you're missing something? Like a last minute beach day, a spontaneous hike, or an outdoor movie night you didn't plan for, that's when Prime's same day delivery has your back. Getting you exactly what you need fast and reliably so you can actually join the moment instead of watching from the sidelines. Same day delivery, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to find millions of items delivered fast, available in select areas, terms apply . That's it for news. The Madison has been renewed for a third season. Uh thought I'd mentioned that to you. Congratulations on your lobbying work behind the scenes on that. Yes, K Street really came through for me. Uh let's get T S Stre et. Let's get to the pit finale. I think we should. It's a pretty big show. One of the reasons why I wasn't tripping over myself to get to it is I loved it, but it also felt a bit like it was reiterating some of the stuff that had been saying over the last three weeks rather than breaking any new ground, probably for the best. I don't know that ending on a cliffhanger or you know, I don't know how many more fireworks this sh this show could have. Literally. Um , let's start with Robbie's darkness, um, which has been obviously a growing concern over the course of the whole season, but especially in the last couple of weeks with his converse is it, you know, his conversations with Dana, especially with Duke, um, and in this episode with Abbott concerning whether or not he is considering taking his own life, what the purpose of this quote unquote spirit quest is going to be, his helmetless trip to the Dakotas. Um I thought this was an interesting place to start for this would just be did you note or feel like he changed he moved the goalposts a little bit in what he was saying because, to Duke previous week, he had said, uh, everything in the hospital makes sense to me. It's everything outside of the hospital that I can't deal with. Yep. Then to Abbott, he was like, every time somebody dies in this hospital, a piece of myself or piece of my soul dies too. Yes. So uh what was your read on that? If you noticed it, and and where where are you at with where Robbie ends? He also says, and I thought this was worth noting too, he says that you know every good thing he's ever done for the world. I thought well, broadly speaking, I really love the finale and I really love engaging with the show both for what's on the screen and what I can't help but kind of try to mind read are the logistics and conversations and decision making and uh that is happening behind the scenes in terms of what to push forward and what to pull back on. And this shows, I think, pretty active engagement due to its quick turnaround time with its with its audience and knowing what they might expect and what we c how they could still surprise us . Broadly speaking, it is a bold gambit to build a season this way. That having educated us on one season about the craziest, most violent day in the history of the emergency department, probably, um, conditioned us for something similar, and then kind of have that not really be the case. It's a day from hell for any number of reasons, but the long night of the soul is really internal and it's Robbie's dark night of the soul. Um one of the things, one of the downstream effects of that decision is that as things get quieter and we get closer and more tied to Robbie's head, we start to notice some things good and bad, and one of the potentially bad things is that he does have a version of the same conversation two to four times. Yes. Um I couldn't help but notice that. You also couldn't help but notice then that the show kind of asserted the primacy of this character, which is not a surprise and actually works for the show. If you if if you watch the show under the impression that it is somehow an ensemble piece, I advise you to take a look at the series uh season posters for season one and two, both of which are pretty much one man's face. Yeah. So but the downstream effects of that is that's are that some characters get nice little buttons on their season and some closure. Um some some characters get used for um shock value, not in a bad way again, but like what's her name, checking out early for boundaries and uh Joy. Joy Checking Out Early for Boundaries, or Jessie getting arrested by ICE. Um, but then you also get things, and we could probably put a pin in this and come back to it, but Dr. Mohan's goodbye essentially being all about Rodney. I ha my one note about that was lovely scene. If they had not made a giant public announcement that she was leaving the show, I would not have thought of that as her last scene. Exactly. Ultimately, I really, really respect the gambit what they did with the season. And I thought they landed it in a way that felt um slightly surprising, but ultimately right. And the reason I say that is that when we live like in our real lives, even those of us who are anxious and have like prone to catastrophizing thoughts, the worst, worst things, the most violent, horrible, hideous things often don't happen. And what you have to deal with is the margins and dealing with what your day-to-day is. The sh nature of the show means that at least one to ten times per episode, the worst, most hideous, violent things happen in the mar you know, in the margins on the operating table or what have you. So what the show can do then is force Robbie to live with the margins of that, talk about other people's death and what it's doing to him, flirt with the idea of driving a motorcycle off a cliff like a buffalo, but really be stuck with himself and his best intentions caring for a baby and his worst intentions um yelling at Dr. Al-Hashimi. So to your point about it being the the Robbie show towards the end of this season, I thought that that's why the Al-Hashimi confrontation was better than just reiterating her or ex further explaining her um her situation. Her condition, which is she is long had she has historically had seizures, but through treatment has been able to get them under control, but experiences two on this her first day as the senior attending at the ED to take over for Robbie in his absence. The implication for that is that we saw at least one of them on camera with She had one with baby Jane Doe and that she had one when she was looking at the kid who needed to be in the Yes and he caught that one. And he caught that one and kind of like f sharks around the ED until he can get to the bottom of it. But it's her confession to him. It's her showing him her uh her medical history, and he's just like, Braun, is this you? And then they have this nice conversation at first, although Robbie is starting to be like, it seems like you're trying to talk me into how this is all okay. And at the end of the day, she's like, so we're good. My neurologist said, I need to just try this different medication. And he's like, we're not good. You can't, you can't be in the attending here if you can't do procedures because you can't always have another attending with you, which is now explains maybe why she was like, I've decided we need two two seniors on on staff all the time. Uh during their big fight that they have in that moment, she says, like, you're making this all about you. Like you're so like narcissistic, essentially. And this is kind of an interesting thing that's happened over the last couple of weeks, and I can't help but also bring in a little bit of the outer pit discourse about like I'm ready. Because I don't really like uh let that affect how I watch the show at all , but it it's the show's right on the line of giving us enough of other people's opinions about Robbie within the world of the show to have some distance from Robbie as a character while we watch it . Versus we're just watching this guy, and it's like if if just more guys like Robbie were in charge of the world, we'd just all be a better place. And you know, so a couple of people are like, you're a dick, or you need help, or you're a narcissist. But the show is about this guy holding a baby at the end of it and being like, you know what I mean? Like it's about Robbie. So it's like right up against like whose POV are we seeing the sky through? I think it's a really good point to make, but I think the show is more subtle than critics might be. Well, absolutely. The camera addressed. But I don't know if you know this. So Robbie says the only things I can control are in this room. And that the human stuff is impossible for him. We see it in practice when a pregnant woman arrives in pre-eclampsia and distress and says, I don't want any medical care, I don't want any medical intervention, here's what I believe, here's what I want. And then as soon as she starts seizing, the doctors can doctor, you know, which is not presented as like a great outcome. It's an incredibly tense and dramatic scene. But it is an example which is so crazy. And we should talk about it i uh just on its own merits. But I'm just saying they if the show knows what it's doing when it gives them a chance for things to get easy for them when it gets hard. And the show is also being its best self, I think, when it ends with Robbie holding a baby telling the baby that the baby is going to be fine, that everything's okay, and that the baby's gonna have a lot of love in her life. And I will say this is probably something that that that I've said as a parent. I'm sure Eric Rochant has said this to Capucine, his screenwriting daughter. Yeah. But he doesn't know that. I've said it to Vijay Edgecombe and he doesn't know that either. You know, I've just been like my son. I think in that case, you're right. I think you have some certainty that it's gonna be fine for him, so maybe you're choosing wisely. I just mean that like that that the illusion of control at the heart of the show is um woven more subtly through the episode than I think the VMAXers who are just like, let's pound this might appreciate. The subtle kind of details in Robbie's like, so I here's here's one thing that I thought was really interesting. The sort of action set piece of this episode is an emergency C section where the lives of both the mother and the baby, you mentioned this woman who is wants to do a wild birthday and is refused all prenatal care and doesn't want any medicine and is like ultrasounds, and Abbott asks her why. And she's like, Women have been giving birth for thousands of years, and he's like at a like 30% mortality rate. You know, that's this is crazy. We have all this stuff for you. She starts seizing, she's pre-eclampsia. At that point, she be it becomes full of clampsia. I didn't. I didn't I'm neither did I uh that that was a transition . And all the hit hitters are in the room. The night shift is is rock ing out and Robbie is brought in kind of like as the closer. Uh Edmund Diaz coming out of the bullpen. And I I thought it was interesting. No Duran. You're wearing the Phillies hat today, but you're still keeping him guessing. You are appealing to all 50 states. Uh he comes in and he sees what's happening, and he's obviously been in and out of this room, and he kind of has his own seizure. Like he has his emotional kind of like, I fucking can't make the last patient I see before God knows what happens to me. Yeah, is gonna be the death of a mother and or a newborn. And he has like a moment where they're like, bro, like glove up, let's go. And then what they do is essentially the pit version of of of the heat bank robbery. I mean, it is the most gripping kind of you know stomach turning if if you you know it's it's it's among the more visceral things that they've done on this show. It was a masterpiece of technique. It was like I was like I can't I I forgot to breathe for two and a half minutes. It was just one of the most important things. What was your Apgar score after that? That was blue. Low? That was blue. Um they bring McKay in. It's just an incredible scene, dude. I don't know if you were able to watch it. Like Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I as a girl dad, C sections are cool. Yeah. Yeah. If it was like a nine or twelve year old, I'd be like, I can't watch this, but like it's a it's a nine year old falls in a pool. It's a sliding window. You know what I mean? I care about what I care about. Yeah. Oh, I was just gonna say, like they they did not put too fine a point on the fact that the very thing that Robbie is sort of saying is happening to Braun, which is you kind of are unable to do procedures, almost happens to him. Yeah, I I also just in that moment, I I in that moment when I'm just watching the technical brilliance of the people who make this show executing something on such a high level with the choreography of the actors, the performance of the actors, the lighting, the camera movement, the stuff I usually don't even look at or care about, like the how real does this look? Viscera, yeah. Truly um was un it was it was unmatched. And I also really liked the way, again, like the it's just it's just these little things that they decided to do, which is the last two episodes, we will focus very, very intently on one horrific potentially bad outcome um medical scene per episode. Last week it was Langdon resetting the guy's spine. Yeah. And this week it was it was this birth and uh look at the it's a it's a five tool player as a show. They're showing you what they can do in miniature as well as what they've done in the past with chaos. So who do we Ogil V lost a patient, the teacher who was really nice. Yeah. Louie died. Yep. They they had a pretty good game. Well, there's the the l uh the someone lost the leg above the knee. But it could have been worse. Could have been worse. Yeah. Could have been worse. Um yeah, you so yours take on the day was pretty good good game, guys. I for for all the adversity that they faced with the digital stuff. Like you know, everybody's really tired. They're charting while they're while they're working and stuff. It's true. Well let's talk about the show's relationship with catastrophe because one thing that happens over time in any TV show, even not medical ones, is we just feel so close, so much empathy, so connected to characters that we really just want good outcomes for them and we want them to win and often shows start to service the audience as well. Um I thought one of the smart things that this episode did, and I and I don't know, I'm I'd be curious to ask if we get the chance to talk to Noah again , what they how they discuss this in the in the writer's room, how how much thought they give to perception. What I mean by that is there were a number of moments in this episode where even I I th I f feel like I have a pretty good read on how the show operates, but even I am not immune to being like, Dr. Al Hashimi shouldn't be driving on a roof right now. This goes back to the old like Don and Sally Draper in a car and being like, please d please don't get an accident. It goes back further to Diana Moldauer on LA Law as Rosalind, whatever, stepping into an elevator shaft. You know what I mean? Like that like there was a and even Mohan being like, well, is that her last scene? She's standing in the ambulance bay, and those ambo drivers get a little wild. They clip the edges sometimes, wondering if that was gonna happen. Well, I think the doors are always open for characters on the show. Helicopters aren't falling on them. Yes. And the show, which is very smart, can be clever about bringing people in and out for short stays, long stays, callbacks, whatever. So I I I think that that's always, always in play. Even the season, not really not ultimately that important for the storyline, but something to note that they might consider again is when the night charge nurse shows up, you know, at ten A. M. as a death doula, right? That or that you know, people have other like Abbott, people have other jobs. Yeah, they have they have hobbies. And they can show up as patients as well. The Alishimi ending note of her and her car, I thought was very well done. And I thought that that's a character who has not been given a lot of like um room to like kind of stretch out. She's a very buttoned-up character. Yes. And I even just like watching her like walk out with her headphones in. Like I was like, this is cool to see this moment with this person. I thought they were setting it up before Robbie finds her her like water bottle and is gonna go like run after her and like apologizes to her at the car, or maybe she does have an episode and he saves her or whatever. Um, so it was interesting that that was not how it ended and that's just basically like this woman at a crossroads in her life, as are many of these characters. I was gonna mention to you the um well, I want to talk about Langdon. Orlando had a bad outcome . What happened to him? He fell off something that was too small, potentially for what he was driving. From from our Hawaiian death prayer to there's a dead guy in the waiting room and Orlando should have j picked a higher place to jump from is like a little bit of a change of tone. We talked a little bit about Mohan. I, like I said, wouldn't have known that she was leaving unless there had been fifty, five hundred articles about it. Yep. Uh what do you think about the Greek chorusification of Whitaker, Mel, McKay, and Santos? And like basically keeping them around for three episodes after their shift ends to sit at a computer and banter, but having little to no dramatic arc for any of them. Well, other than Mel's sister, I guess. There is I mean, I think that's something that I would imagine they are going to try to look at in I mean they're just finishing the writer's room for season three, but that they are looking at and what to do. Like Robbie is the main character of the show and he shares that distinction a little bit, I guess, with the ER the E D itself and maybe Dana as one B. Yeah. Um there's not a lot of A story real estate to go around on this show. And to that point, making the decision that they he's now said publicly, which is a much shorter time jump, so it does sound like they'll be going from July Thanksgiving to winter-ish. Yeah. Yeah. Will allow them to pick up these characters more rapidly and thus continue a story maybe that they've established this season. The attempts to give each one of these smaller characters some individual arc, I think was really hit or miss if we're looking back on the course of the season. I think that um McKay wanting to have a personal life great color, episode to episode. She's giving a great performance, but I don't really landed. Well, they're on the date with her, so it's almost like she would have to have left at like eight o'clock and been like, I have a date so. Mel being forced to do a second deposition just doesn't really hit for me. Not if we're not going to see the deposition. It's the case for the year before where I think her and Ellis does spinal tap. Oh, it is. Okay. So I even so maybe that's my fault that I didn't know. And Ellis was like I can't talk about what I said, but I want to tell you like you're a good doctor. Since Ellis is now also being upstreamed to the day day shift. Um Javati maybe more successful because also that was the most ER in its small moments way. I think the most ER plot line because one of the challenges ER had was like how will we keep these characters here? And her becoming an emergency mental like emergency psychiatry. Yeah. Um, so she's gonna be on the show now. Obviously, she's gonna be on the show, but that locks her in. Yeah. It's like that dude the pirates just called up and they was like he played two games, Connor Griffin, and they're like two games like it was a nine-year contract. The Tigers just did that too. It's a great time to be 19 in the MLB. That's so sick. You get eight years, 150. Did you know that like in like when did we start this pod? 2012? Like mid-2013, I went to Bill and I was just like, Lock me up. Please . Ten year deal. He was like, no, bet on yourself. Yeah, and look where it got me. Still here, wait I like the the difference I think with with someone like Whitaker is that Whitaker's role really is mini Robbie. So what Robbie does now kind of reflects on him, how he is being a doctor, how he is showing up, what he's so it it's it's it's interesting watching the show figure this out. And I I genuinely don't again with no actual knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, I really am exhausted by the the the assumptions by a rabid fandom that there's some conspiracy plot to get rid of Supriya Ganesh and Dr. Mohan. Like sometimes characters don't take flight, and it's not about the actor. And I'm sure that people involved with the show would never blame her. It's they could n't find a place for this character, a place for her to go. Yes. I also I mean, like I I enjoy the character, I enjoy the performance quite a bit. One of my least favorite things about TV shows is when they're just like, and we've also added six more people. Sure. And yet we're gonna try and make room for the original six, the new six, and all the people in the background. I want to talk a little bit about Langdon, who I was a bit surprised , got like the arc that he did this season, I suppose. And this is in relationship to the Greek chorusification of those other characters that I mentioned. Santos especially, who I think was much more central to the first season, and in this season is more like kind of like over it and also making a lot of jokes but didn't really have like a huge moment other than her confrontation with Langdon, which I thought was quite good. But you you you d this karaoke erasure will not stand. You clearly turned off the show too fast. Did they go to karaoke after the fireworks? Yes. Oh, I di I did turn off the show. I was I was I was testing you there. Oh yeah. How's karaoke? Would she sing? They sing uh You Oughta Know. Oh that's good. She and Mel rocking out on stage together . And that's how the season. That's just a my bee, you know? That's accountability. Listen, if the Marvel movies taught you anything, it's stay tuned through the credits. You get a little stinger? Yeah. It said executive producer, and then and then you heard the music. Oh, come on. Yeah, dude. Yeah. What do you guys want from me? I'm I'm grinding a lot of tape here, you know? You would have seen Conformity Gate too if you had just kept it rolling. What's Conformity Gate? Isn't that the that's the Stranger Things episode that came on after the finale? Yes. Well we're some of my l large language models are working on that right now Some of my large language models. That's what LLM stands for, right? Sure. Type it into Google, I dare you. It's probably something quite, quite obscene. Um Yeah, they show karaoke. Anyway, Langdon did not get invited. He also took off uh setting boundaries for himself. Well, actually, he doesn't. He comes back down, has this fight with Robbie. I will say for a brief split second, I thought that dude was gonna have some some some dirty work in his pockets when they were like turning your pockets out. I was like, Yeah, this guy have a perk. What's going on? Yeah. He did not. He did not. Viewer, he did not. He was clean and sober and he does his drug test. Maybe it's a little cocky . Pun intended. Yeah. I mean he does his drug test. He goes up, he sees that Mercer Lady lost her leg but saved her life. Yep. Goes back downstairs and pops off at Robbie a little bit. He does. He's had enough. I don't know if that's in the steps. You know what I mean? I don't know if that's that's part of the the program. But he is just like, you don't like, you know, you you I I'm doing the work. I I I came back, I showed I belong here, but I could have paralyzed that guy. Like, I don't know what kind of teaching method this is now. And he's like, everybody knows you're you're on the edge and you need to get out. You need help. I thought that was decent because one thing that you will notice if you watch the last three episodes is that Robbie has not made much of a secret of his despair. You know, like he has talked to Duke about it. Dana obviously can see it. Abby can obviously see it if everybody's talking, you know, about this. Um what did you think of the Langdon arc and what did you think of that moment with him? I've decided to double down on my number one criticism of the show, which is that someone's got to fuck his hair up. I I I I've thought, I've done some time, I've done I've done some work, I've done some reflection on how I just called that out a few weeks ago and the reaction it got, frankly, in this room as the least important thing I could possibly care about. And I've decided it does matter. And I hope that the powers that be listened to this note. Because this man just worked fifteen hours through s through savage back pain, which he is treating. Right, which would have had an effect on the look . He I I just want to see that he's been through the day that we've seen him be through that we've seen him go through Yeah. Everyone else that like a little bit they they look a little bit. They look a little bit worse for wear, yeah. Okay. I I genuinely I would say I'm done. I turn off the episode after that. No, I I think that the worst tendencies of the pit are the fact that within the structure that they've created and the way that they have to process time and story, that when the tide goes out and suddenly characters have a brief moment to to to talk, there's almost too much pressure on that moment to deliver something that feels as natural and humanistic as much of the rest of the show when it's at its normal cadence. That happened last week when Whitaker popped off at Langdon all of a sudden. And was it consistent with how he probably was feeling based on what we've seen. Sure, but we've never seen them talk to each other like that. And it felt kind of jarring. Yes. I felt similarly about this scene. It was meaningful. It had to happen. It was foreshadowed appropriately when Robbie had realizes that he wanted to say something to him before he left and asked Dana where he went. It was better dramatically that it wasn't another learning hug at the end of the season. It gives us some somewhere else to go. But also in the flow of the episode, as it was delivered to us, it was another one-on-one scene where someone tells Robbie a version of you need help man. Yeah. And we've had a couple of those. It was a different tenor, it was a different relationship. Yeah, we've had screaming, we've had take accountability, we've had you're a narcissist, we've had you've gotta like embrace the darkness. Like, like we've had hugs. And I thought it was actually like on in a total a really amazing portrait off the importance of like tell talking to people and the importance of like, you know in some way I think that this episode or this season has been Robbie's cry for help and he seems like it's been heard a fair amount. I I thought the conversely, I thought the Abbott scene was pretty spectacular. Yeah, man. Those two guys bl blacking out in that scene. He he's incredible. Um and it it it it's the right level of intensity and guys don't talk about feelings but also some jokes, but also But maybe guys do talk about feelings if they save two lives and like just dump a bunch of pads inside of an empty stomach. You know what I mean? I I wondered if you were gonna ask about that. Like that's just like that's the crazy shit with doctoring, where like they'll be like, oh, we have to do all this elaborate, like don't do this to the vein and like move that, and like we're gonna do this crazy laser underneath. And then one part of it will be like shove a ton of gauze into this guy's gut and let's see if we can stop the bleeding. And I'm like, that is what they did during the civil war. Like you guys have to have developed different fucking techniques. Okay, now to be fair, they did not have gauze in the civil war. Like we don't have starting pitchers anymore. Why are you guys still pumping gauze into people's stomachs? I also thought it's legal. That's what I was gonna say. No. It's a little bit of a fun game for the friends upstairs. Yeah, that guy is like . You texted me twelve minutes ago. What the fuck happened down here? Can I re use it? I really liked I liked when Abbott I liked the Abbott line about I'm your emergency contact and I do not want to be contacted. I thought that was a great line. Uh-huh. Cool. We'll find out. I guess we're gonna find out. I got a motorcycle trip coming out. But if you just got a what if you got a call being like, thank God we've reached you, you're Andy's emergency contact. HIPAA laws prohibit us telling you much, but his entire midsection is bursting with gauze. Like sounds like you guys saved the And then you'd be like that George Bush meme. You're like, now watch this drive. Um we got probably a it sounds like a six month time jump coming. Uh so it'll be interesting to see whether that is geared both because they want to get some some autumnal slash winter disasters going. But and I, you know, maybe we can get like a hockey ring kind of situation , whatever, you know? Penguins. Uh, but also like that would put Al Hashimi and Robbie on track to be back if if they want to do that. Uh great season. Do you feel loved it? Last thing. Give this man all the Emmys now. But the second one I also don't like is this blank spin-off when that said, this show is just heaving for a night shift. It is this episode, when not only does it let Abbott take center stage, but he is leading his crew in a bespoke chant saying that they are night crawlers. This is my one prediction for season three. Is in the same way that they did Abbott shows up briefly in the b first half of the season and then runs like the last three or four is a much bigger presence. I do wonder if we get like three episodes, four episodes of Abbott and Alice finishing a shift. Yeah, I think we should I think it would be great to start the shift. Just because Alice is brought up to main cast. And then that would be like that would be really interesting. If if day shift has to come in and and like whatever what could happen in the morning, like a big big tractor trailer accident out there outside of Pittsburgh. I don't think this can happen or will happen for a variety of like specific production based reasons. But it has definitely at least been floated that if they could get the timing right, they could run the pit all year by alternating use of the set. By having a handle that as a viewer? Yeah. I mean I I think it wouldn't really serve anyone other than potentially future um you know uh owner of the hospital, David Ellison. Like I I I I don't I think like just in terms of the bastardization of story and and attention, it's probably not worth it. But could I handle it? Yeah, like I actively I feel quite sad that that was the finale because it's I enjoy this job, but I also just enjoy having a show like that to watch. It's uh it's it's unique. That we we know and love where I feel like anticipation for the moment that I'm gonna turn it on and excitement to talk about it afterwards. And just eagerness to turn it off, apparently, even before it ends. That's my bad. I thought when I got to R Scott Gemmel it was all I'm all clear. You just keep you d there was the dulcet tones of Alanis Morissette. I'm gonna start putting fake fake stinger podcast m moments where I'm just like after you've left, I'm gonna be like You should during the credits . Let's do Top Chef for a few minutes here. Okay. Um, so that was the pit finale. Thumbs up. From the pit, the hospital to the barbecue pit. That's right. Spoilers for top top chef. And I will say um we're gonna get a little bit granular here about Top Chef as a production. So spoilers also for last chance kitchen. Yeah, we have to . I begin at the end. Okay. Is that okay? Do what do what you need to do. What happened? What happened there? So Seeger loses uh on the show itself. Yep. You can debate whether or not like his he was was he falling on his sword? Was he making some great hero m ove to like cook the whole hog himself and stay up all night and cook the toughest part of the the pig? I I don't know enough about pigs to tell you. You know, like there was I I thought Lawrence did a great job. There were some good looking dishes, but for the most part, this seemed like a very difficult challenge. Yeah. And also a complicated one in so much as it was two teams, a cap tain, but then there was, you know, Justin's cooking, but with like Jen's milkbread that everybody seemed to love. Yada yada. Seager loses. I wouldn't say he lost like entirely gracefully. He seems a little bit like see fucking soon dog, you know, to everybody. They go to last chance kitchen and Tom is like basically like I can't explain what's going on, but we don't have a sh a challenger for Rhoda today. Well y all will be revealed in next week's main episode, he says basically. So the I the operating theory seems to be that next week Jen will have to drop out of the competition before even a quickfire starts. And because of that, and because she's sort of bid on warning about like you have to compete if you're gonna be your 65 game rule. They will pull her from the competition and Seeger will automatically go back in uh because but he was the last one eliminated. What's the other theory? The other theory is that he threw a hissy fit and said, you guys all suck. I'm out of here. I'm not gonna do your funny little after show Which has only ever happened one other time. Oh really? The guy with the hat who got eliminated first the season uh two seasons ago, David, I think, he made like garbage pizza was his business. No offense. But I no, I think his business was literally like, you know, I'm I Pizza but with everything on it. No, pizza with like scraps that other restaurants throw away. Yeah, yeah. He was like dumpster diving, right? Mm-hmm. And he didn't last chance kitchen? No. Right. Look at your face. You like people who compete. It's incredible. This has really got your blood up. Uh I I could see I could see both happening. And I definitely already beg I mean, people do receive what's known as the villain edit often in reality shows, and I I express my displeasure at Seeger's attitude towards the children previous week. Yes. For example, I don't think he would like the show bandy at all because he's not interested in people who collaborate with adult children. Um but I also felt like the Top Chef is as far from the most people's baseline understanding of reality TV as it can get. I think it doesn't really go for soap operatics interpersonal And is united. Mostly, especially in the last, I don't know, fifteen seasons, just generally uninterested in that. And I think that's to its credit. That said, whether it's the edit or just the guy himself, Seeger was incredibly unlikable in the over these last two weeks. I felt his like the way that that was cutting to him. I mean I'm one fun thing this season this I am watching it with my kids and like them s not really yet knowing the rhythms of a show in which um they don't understand that if you get the interview where they talk about their family or background, that means they're either winning or losing. Yeah. And you don't know which. Yes. So the way that Seagir was like, you know, I've I've trained with Rodney Scott and I've done all these things was setting him up to lose. But like TV can reveal things even if, you know, it's not necessarily a malicious edit. And the w he was so tight and so resentful and angry about how things should be done that he was definitely set himself a failure and and set up for a potential I believe his final interview in this episode didn't look like other final interviews have been, like he seemed to be in a different space that potentially this was done and it that could be either because he bailed or because he had to film that talking headpiece separate from the normal talking headpiece because of whatever had happened. Yeah I don't know exactly I'd be curious to know but maybe they wouldn't tell us about when they shoot Last Chance Kitchen in relationship to the episodes. I I think in times it has been like this person walked out of an elimination and into Last Chance Kitchen. I've also heard that there have been seasons in which they shoot Last Chance Kitchen over a course of like two days closer to the end of production. Interesting. So it's basically like before they go like it's basically like you w you win last chance kitchen over the course of two days and go right back into the regular. I believe that's right. It catches you up to that point. Right. Everyone who signs up for the show is committed to the like a blackout. They have to be there for those four to six weeks. But like theoretically like Nana could have to sit in last chance kitchen for two weeks Yeah, exactly. Um the the strangeness in Last Chance Kitchen did create a pretty fun I mean I I kind of liked the chaos of it because Tom was clearly like, I don't know what's going on . And then the nature of the challenge that they come up with was so bizarre and specific and like he made them put duckheads into everything. But I also kinda liked the fact that there were two chefs there who were eliminated and he was just like, just come and try to win money. Yeah.. I thought that was cool I thought it was cool. I thought it just spoke to perhaps a f a flaw in the engineering of the television show, like in the production itself, if like depending on when they're shooting this and what whatever. And like just the fact that you leave an episode of TV and you're like, I don't really understand what happened, but not on a cliffhanger way, more in a like Tom seems unprepared for what just happened. did you have any other big notes from the show itself? Just gr another great challenge and what's been a good season. I really like that they made them do something incredibly specific and hard. There was no quick fire. It was a whole hog uh cook all night. People went a little nuts staying up all n ight. I definitely who do you like what do you think is easier? Neither is easy, but do you think it's easier to stay up all night and then plate a delicious, you know, uh hog dish or stay up essentially all night and then um deliver a baby and save a mother suffering from eclam psia. The question is is like have you ever done the like my flight is so early, I'm just gonna stay up all night? No, I can't do that. Yeah. That's that's the I I I think in any situation, I would be like, I'm gonna go get a couple hours of sleep somewhere. Yeah. Like my brain needs to shut down for a second. So I would rather personally just for the just for the memories , do the C section. You know? That's not where I thought you were gonna go. But I could be the gauze guy, because it that it's like it just seems like that's just like put a bunch of gauze in the stomach. Did you first of all technique to that? People don't know this about you. Edge come up and under. You could be like, did you see the video of the k of the kid who sunk the half court for 10 grand at the Sixers game? And then fucking Maxie and PG came out to him. That's you. Even long time listeners probably don't understand that there was a period about 20 years ago when you had spent a lot of time watching house MD and thus sort of fancied yourself a bit of an an amateur medicine man. And any time anyone was slightly ill or perhaps hung over, your suggestion was a towel of indeterminate temperature. Suffering from these ailments and you'd be like hot towel around the neck. I don't think that was from house. You don't think I mean I think I was watching house, but I think it was more just like I need you to rally. You know, like that's probably true too. That's probably true too. Um speaking of sports. Yeah . Switch it . I'm wearing Eagles Green. Uh and that's what I want to talk to you about. My my wardrobe choices. Last night during the Sixers play-in game. Oh yeah. Uh I first of all I thought I found you very quiet yesterday. Uh and not particularly chatty with me. That's fine. Did these days happen, but I didn't think that you were like engaging with me. No. Do you want to talk about that? No, that was fine, because that's not abnormal. What I didn't like is that when Zach and I were texting about the Sixers' incredible performance against the Orlando Magic, the only sporting event that anyone cared about that n last night. You were like, you guys are so loyal. Yeah. And I was like, don't fucking do that. I I no, I don't this is a safe space where we talk about our obsessions and our and our fandom, and you're like, you guys really like the Sixers. And I was like, d are you are you being held for fucking ransom? Like what is going on? I'm kind of my heart has been bruised too much. I'm kind of in prove it mode with them. Like I kind of Wednesday night, what were you doing? Well clearly I had a full day . And the fact that it's driving you crazy that you don't know what I did yesterday. It's okay. I I was monitoring the situation. I but I think they had eyes on the game. Are always such an abulant, like gregarious fan. You're just like, guys, I because hello brothers, like what Philly's sporting event is happening today. Huh? First of all , it was a bit of a brushback pitch. Because I have definitely sent a disproportionate share of Andrew Painter text slash And frankly, some crickets. Some mock draft content I sent your way. No one responded to the thing. But what if it did? First of all, it wasn't Barnwell. It was nbcsportsphiladelphia.com. So click the link . Anyway, this is why journalism is collapsing. This is why. You're like, it's probably Bill Barnwell. I love Barnwell, but I was like, I I saw that on ESP not com and I was like, this is speculating. You didn't even see it. Yeah. You don't even know the fantasy situation that I was sharing with you for no reason on a Tuesday at 3 p.m. Okay. The The fucking Sixers, man, like come on. Come on. You you don't understand there it's Jekyll and Hyde, man. I do understand, and every time it's Jekyll. A Bronnosaurus like move across a pasture, and you're just like, this is not fun. Yeah. But when it's VJ and Maxi and playoff P, I know, but you clearly you're still trusting. Here's the thing: I love Dr. Jekyll. I am a patient of Dr. Jekyll. I make appointments to see Dr. Jekyll, and then I'm while I'm while he's examining me. I'm like, you want to hang out sometime? Yeah. I've gotten too close to Dr. Jekyll. Do you know what Dr. Jekyll is like when you get too close to Dr. Dr. Jekyll, Joel, and beat in this? No, it it's the fucking team. Because then I'm like, yeah, maybe this team has a chance. Then Paul George is suspended for taking drugs. Yes. And then I'm like, hey Dr. Jekyll, you're looking good again. And then Dr. Jekyll's like, oh my appendix has just burst before the playoffs have begun. I I I don't have the Okay . Okay. I I'm I'm battered. I'm old. You know? I don't want you to ever think that when I don't respond to your draft your deep, deep, deep draft lore that it's n anything about like it's not that I don't find it interesting . But I guess what I should do is be like, you sure do read a lot. I do. I read a lot of New York Review of Books content. Like the great Nancy Lemon book that I'm reading, The Lives of the Saints, New Orleans in the 80 s. Come on, you're gonna love this book. Uh I also read a lot of um draft content. Yeah. I'm very excited about the upcoming NFL draft. I am I have a tape too hot for you. Before we before we go to that, I would also say that the reason why I was particularly salty about the about the Sixers is because I did peek in on our fight and fills. Oh yeah. And it's just yeah . Hey, d don't e you know what they say? Don't even check the standings until game sixty. It's all noise.. It's no signal Who says that? The rates and barrels guy at the athletic podcast. Whoa. And they were like, don't even worry about it until game sixty. It's like, yeah, you could have a disaster season and at game sixty, you might not be in it, but it's all noise. The signal doesn't start till game sixty. Okay. Yeah. That's very calm. Yeah. I love that. Do we have a rule about that for television shows? 'Cause I've never found it. Uh no. I mean that's the problem with T V is that either I I'm not hanging out till game sixty. It's too long. Yeah. You know. I honestly like I'll be completely honest, as we're doing after dark, I got I got I realize why I don't like reading reviews is that if I get warned off a show, I'm not really looking forward to the prospect of watching eight hours of beef if it's not good. Right. But what's I'll watch anything that's a bad movie. I don't give a shit. Oh, for sure it's a time thing. Yeah. But it's just like eight hours of like something that doesn't work out and is like kind of not focused, but who knows, maybe the critics are wrong. And maybe we are the critics that matter, you know? It's possible. Or maybe we are gonna turn vegan from it. What's your hot draft take? I can't share it on on on a recording. What? I be I will share it, but like then we have to cut it. I'll be completely honest with you. This is sorry sorry. Beep this. This is gonna be great. When that was my draft take. And we didn't we didn't Daniel Jeremiah could never. Thanks to Andy Greenwald. I thought you did a really good job today. Thank you, but I am just rookie numbers compared to what you've done today. Sarah, Kaya, Kai, thank you so much for being here. And thank you so much for witnessing my last pod, if that tape ever gets out. And uh we'll be back on Monday. Euphoria, beef, Margot's Got Money Problems. Big show for us. Yeah. Big show. Big, big, big show. And we'll talk about since I didn't realize you were so swayed by reviews, how engaged you are with Euphoria season three. The reviews? Well no, you you just were like, Rune reviews are bad, I don't want to watch it. Now you're like, it's Levinson time . Big Sam coming through. Nobody has his finger on the pulse of young America more . Yeah. Honestly, you got a point there. Also, I keep going along for the ride. I love it. Thank you for riding shotgun with me. Um see you guys on Monday.