The Future of UAP Research

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. before a worried walks through the door. We're already there. Before a cyber attack hits, our researchers are already securing what matters. before the next generation takes the field or takes the bench. We're already building the leaders Alabama needs. That's the power of the University of Alabama system. Three campuses working as one. When Alabama needs what's next, we're all about it. See how at allabout.usystem.edu. Today I'm talking with Luigi Venditelli, former national director of MUFON Canada, and the filmmaker behind S4, the Bob Lazar story, now streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Luigi spent five years building the most detailed 3D recreation of Bob Lazar's S4 facility ever put on film. And it started with a cold call to Lazar himself. Is Bob still taking calls? Uh, because I got a great business idea for him to endure. No, no you don't. CrossFit 51. If you work out, it's you running from a black helicopter. Wait, wait, wait, wait. And be inside a replica UFO. Sleek. Motton. And in the bathroom, an optional probe. That's enough. What Bob found inside the UFO is the part that stays with you. There's a detail about how light behaves in the craft that Bob couldn't have known. Not unless he was actually there. Today we also get into his friendship with an aerial school witness, his two years training under Dr. David Jacobs, and his grandfather's 1965 sighting that started all of it. This one goes places you don't expect. Let's go down to the basement. You can watch the Y files on Spotify. New video episodes every Monday and Friday, and premium subscribers get fewer ads, which means fewer interruptions when things start getting weird. Luigi Ventitelli, welcome to the basement. It's such a pleasure. Um Thank you for having me. You're welcome. I'm gonna try not to to nerd out too much on the three D stuff because you know we do that here. That's great. Let's do it. Um so I have to watch a lot of documentaries for what I do and so they're mostly terrible. Um so when I got your screener I didn't I didn't know much about you. Um I certainly knew Bob's story. I I threw it on for a couple of minutes to see like what am I in for And the first thing that grabbed me is the music is unbelievable. It's so good. A a a a big shout out to James Gray, who's the composer who did all that. Really. It has a a like a blade runner Vangelas vibe and I loved it. I thought maybe is it just gonna be the credits, but it goes through the whole thing. It's so atmos it's really well done. He he and uh he reached out to us for he's from Scotland and James is a Bafta award winning composer. And said, I wanna. I'm gonna do all this. For free for now and we'll figure something out. And I'm like, 'cause I I didn't have a b uh when he reached out, we're kind of starting to run low on budgets. I'm like, this is gonna cost a lot of money. And he says, No, I have a passion for this. I wanna help you and he said, he sits down with me. I grew up with my father being a big opera and classical music. And I wanted the film to have A memorable s music to it. And I said, My father made me grow up with Giuseppe Verdi music. And he says, Giuseppe Verde, perfect, and he knew everything about it. And he's and I said, but I also have it has to have like a an eighties ominous to it. He says, Done. Let me let me play let me send you some stuff when I come up with it. And he did, and we went, Okay We're working with you. It's perfect. I I mean when you release the uh the soundtrack, I downloaded it immediately. So that's that's rolling in my car. That's great. Let's start with your grandfather's story. Yeah. He's out in the balcony, you're what happened? So in um In nineteen sixty five. My mother's father, my grandfather, who was Basically like my second father. Uh I I've spent a lot of time with him when I was in Italy and and Montreal when I was a kid. Like we always were together all the time. He would take me around Rome. I know Rome because of him. He was one of the most important people in my life and he was such an Honest Dedicated grandfather, like I I was like his son, basically. So and he was a very big reason why he spoke Italian. He's very strict, actually, when it came to that. He says you have to learn Perfectly. So I was able to learn Italian and speak it like the people in Rome did. That was important. We stayed in Rome. Anyway and so. In nineteen sixty five. Uh, five years after he moved to Montreal with my grandmother, my mom, and her sister. Uh he was outside on a balcony with a friend of him a friend of his who was visiting from Italy. His friend's name is Corrado Zenga, who was a famous soccer player in Italy, by the way. And they were outside on the balcony smoking a cigarette. As most people did in the nineteen sixties. And uh uh uh in front of the apartment building, it was a field. It was like a open field at the time they hadn't built yet. And He's looking out at the horizon and sees this orange light coming in really fast. He says Really, really fast. And so it caught his attention and he motion to his friend, look at that and His friend turned around and they said The time it took them to kind of Stabilized themselves to You know, look at this thing. It was above them. That's all fast from the horizon. So that's a fast object. And he said Era un disco volante. It was a flying. Wow. Flying disc. Okay. It was silver. It was a perfect circle. It was metallic. Metallic per silver metallic perfect circle. And it had flames. Coming out of it. And he was like What is that? And he says completely silent and flew very fast over them. So they ran Inside the apartment. My mom Remembers this She was inside the apartment playing with her sister and remembers both my grandfather and Corado walking in going, Disco Volante, Disco like screaming and they run to the other side and they're getting scared, like what's going on? And they went to the other window and it was already on the other horizon. And My grandmother was there. And she was like, Yeah. You know, he and Carada ran in freaking out that they saw we didn't see anything 'cause they it was gone. I think what happened was she believed it. And so then my mom? Because she was there? Not believed the flying saucer, but something flew over the house. 'Cause your grandfather wasn't someone to make up stories. Oh God. My grand first of all, my grandfather first extremely old school Catholic Italian. Old school. Very uh very strict in terms of how he brought brought me up, you know. Raised me. Always you know, sit properly at at the table, always wash your hands, always wear good shoes, always be nice to people, like go to school, study, like Very old school. And he was not the type at all to invent some story like that. And He was also I should say back during the second world war. He was a prisoner in a concentration camp in Hanover, Germany. So he spent two years as a concentration camp. Uh uh he in a concentration camp and almost died. Why was he in a camp? He was a Italian military. And the and the S came in to Uh the village Actually got caught at a train station. So he and other soldiers were Taken out of strange taste strange. Train station. I there was no seats and he says I was standing all the way to Germany. And we were not allowed to sit down. So that that was a horrible thing, apparently. But he stayed in Hanover in a concentration camp. And and he eventually got all this paperwork And was uh also later on the German government uh a lot of money to my grandfather because of that. He was able to prove that he was a um a prisoner. And the government uh the German government actually had a compensation plan. For uh prisoners that were sent to concentration camps. So he he got a bunch of money back in the early two thousands. Because of that. And so the historians who are screaming right now, um, Italy and Germany were they were allies for a while. Yeah. Until until they weren't. Until they weren't. Absolutely. And and when they turned on the Italians, they turned on the Italians viciously. Mm-hmm. Not a little bit. I mean my grandmother used to say all the time, she would talk about the horrors of the Holocaust and all that stuff. But she would always say, We were also victims. Yes. You know, so It's something that a lot of people sometimes wonder, really? The Italians? Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of people died and and and that was a horrible time. But anyway. Being in the military, he said, I knew what aircraft were even remembered when he was saved in Hanover. He remembered saying I would I could see the planes with the black star on them, and it was the Americans. So he he always said The planes with the black stars saved us, which is a cool thing. Yep, because it's the American military that came to save them. And uh I get choked up because I remember the stories really, really well. And uh Anyway. He knew about this stuff. He's not a guy who used to lie to me. Or lie to anybody for that matter. So I took him very seriously and I'm like He saw a flying saucer. And he would say this occasionally in the house, you know, when people come over. Some my grandmother would be like uh you know, say that story and then he would say the story And everybody be laughing. It was like, ah ha ha that's ridiculous, you know. And he was never laughing. He was always the one guy in the room. Wasn't giggling, wasn't laughing. And I always used to like Look at him. And go, why is everybody laughing? It it didn't it didn't make sense to me. Did he get annoyed? No, he was sad. I saw him I I I think he was sad. It wasn't he wasn't annoyed. What about Corado? Did he ever mention the story again? I don't I'm sure he did, but he was living in Italy. Corrado was living was was visiting my grandfather and my grandmother in Montreal. They went back to Italy so I'm sure he had but back then, how how how are people keeping track? Through a letter? You're not gonna start you know, it's not it's not like today where you could text and and talk all the time. So there was there was big distances in communication back then, so That's how it was. Uh, but he would always be very, very I would see him like kind of. Disappointed. There's the the right word. Disappointed that it was always a joke to him. So I took it very seriously. I remember it it it sparked. Something in me. And I said He doesn't lie. W what did he see? You know, why are we why are we pretending that didn't happen? And obviously you know, as a kid I read about flying saucerers on on Whatever I would find. So I'm like, is that stuff real? I wasn't sure, but I was like, he certainly saw something. So it it sparked. A whole journey in my life, let me tell you and and it changed everything for me. I think that was without a doubt The moment that it got me on the trajectory. And I never stop. You know? And how old were you when you made that decision? Nine. Nine. Yeah. So take us from age nine to Mufon. Well, when I first started looking well, I wanted to get information on it. And I was a I was a real geek when I was a kid. I was I guess I was really in You gotta remember this like the eighties, right? It's not popular to be a geek in the eighties. I don't know if you remember that. Tell me, girl. Yeah, okay. Like it's it was bad. So I was like a s like I would Uz my summerz. to really dive deep on on science stuff. 'Cause actually There was nothing on flying saucer's that I could find, especially in Montreal. So I had to just I I thought if I buy astronomy books I'm gonna learn about flying saucers. I that's my you know, I'm a kid, I'm very naive. So I have I still h have all my astronomy books from when I was a kid. My I used to get a small allowance, put the money aside. I would help my grandparents at the market. My father's parents ha were at the uh fruit market. I would help them, I get money, put it aside and buy astronomy books. And my mom was always like You're spending all your money on books about space. Like she was really like, Why don't you go out and play? You know, sh it was it was I was a real geek. So anyway. Yeah, I got really obviously I got really educated on astronomy 'cause I'm reading them. But there was never anything about flying saucerers. At the end of the books there was always like a few pages potentiality of life in the universe. And I'm like, okay. You know, like, but this is not Giving me anything. And eventually we were in we went to Plattsburgh, New York. And that's just about forty five minutes from Montreal. Drive. My mom and my grandfa my mom and my grandmother would go there shopping all the time 'cause The stores in America were much better than the stores in Montreal at that time. Even a small place place like Plattsburgh. had way better stuff than Montreal. Really? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so much stuff, so much cool stuff. So we would go there almost like every second or third weekend. So my sister and I in the back seat and I I I remember playing Michael Jacks in my in my Walkman and going to Plattsburgh. And actually every time I listen to Michael Jackson, I remember those trips going to Plattsburgh. And Basically in a bookstore. I see something of Mufon. I see a mu font. I think it was like a pamphlet they had. And I'm like, oh my God. You know, it's like something uh about UFOs. And you could become a member, and I'm like, I I couldn't wait to fill it up and send it out. So I sent that and they said, What's your specialty? And I'm I don't know, I was I was like twelve years old or something and I said I don't know, astronomy 'cause I had r read so much. So my original First card ever got said specialty astronomy. I that was crazy, but I re I received a letter from them when I applied for it. And it was uh Walt Andres who was the direct n executive director when uh big director of Mufon and he said, You are officially the youngest member of Muphon in the world. And that actually uh intimidated me. I got scared. I remember going, Oh, maybe I Now what do I have to do? I too young am I too young? Like do I have responsibilities now? I was like, maybe I I bit off Too much here. You know, like I don't wanna I felt like maybe I should call them and tell them I'm not an astronomer. You know, like that's what I thought was like, you know? Anyway, uh I started up I I obviously subscribed to the MuFon Journal. I started reading about all that stuff. That was really interesting to me, 'cause finally I was getting traction on the stories about UFOs and all that. Obviously they were call UFOs back then, not UAP. And uh I still call 'em that I'm not I'm not with that narrative. Yeah, I'm a UFO guy. Exactly. So And so basically that Held me? into the more I read about it, the more I wanted to read about it. I had to do it in in kind of in hiding. I remember my friends would come over. I had a lot of people that made fun of me because I was into UFOs. I was younger and it's like the eighties. It was not cool. It wasn't cool. It wasn't cool. It was not cool. It was not something that People would Always make fun of me. Because I was into UFOs. What are they saying? What are they saying to you? Oh it it was just like Oh, you believe in that stupid stuff? You know, like basically, why do you believe that's crazy? Luigi's a freak, you know, and it's like Why? You know, why am I a freak, but I think it was like a stigma. It was like a hundred percent a public perception. of UFOs. I'll say it even now, and it kinda feels good to say it. When I went to my prom I'll never forget. There must be a video of this somewhere. Somebody from my promise to videotape this. Uh back then. And I graduated in nineteen eighty nine when Bob Lazar Public. And uh director of the school was up on stage and he was handing up handing the diplomas at at prom. And Well you got your diplomas at Prom? Yeah, they gave it to us at Prom. I remember that. Okay. And basically he said, and now Luigi Venatelli, the guy who believes in aliens, and everybody was laughing. And I have to go pick up my diploma while everyone's like, Ah, teachers roasting you? Yeah. And I I I'll never forget and I'll never forget it. I'm main I'm talking about it now, right? And I was like Wow, and so that kinda killed my interest to go too for 'cause I was getting to the age where I wanted to start dating girl and go out and have friends and, you know. Um It's like I don't wanna be a geek all the time. So I was doing it in hiding most of the time. What were you doing any work from U Farm? Were you investigating? Uh the only thing I did, actually, yes, one thing I did. was there was one case, you probably remember it, the Gulf Breeze Florida case, right? And I found that to be interesting 'cause there's so many pictures and There's a guy called Ed Walters who had taken those pictures. And I took it upon myself to write him. I I just found his address. I don't remember where, I wrote him. And I said I'm this guy in Montreal. interested is there any more stuff that you could send? And I have an original letter, obviously, from him. I have a video tape he sent me. uh that I still have and it was made for me. And it was Ed Walters talking to me about what had happened and included his home videos of what he saw, the craft, right? Wow, was that the acorn shaped? Yeah, it kinda. It was we It was uh not an acorn, but yeah it was like a Yeah, like a fat Yes. Yeah, like a let's call it a fat flying saucer. It wasn't a disc, it wasn't a disc was very yeah. And it I mean, there's been a lot of controversies, a lot of things apparently saying oh it's not real, it's not true. I don't know, but at the time, it wasn't determined to be fake yet. And so I was in communication with him. And that and so The local Mufon chapter Found out I must have sent a letter to some and by the way, everything was letters back then. It's just th there was no email, right? I had sent a letter to somebody saying I'm in commun I was super excited, I in communication with this guy. So they invited me to a Mu Fun uh event in Quebec, Montreal. Tell my dad, could you drive me to this place. Wait, how old are you now? I I was thirteen. Okay. Okay. And my dad's like, Okay, what's going on? And I said, Oh I have to do a presentation. My dad's like, What is so we go into this place, I'll never forget, he came there 'cause he was really concerned. And he and he walks in the room and there's all these people with white hair. And he says, W what are you doing here? And I said, Dad, you'll see, you know, in the And they oh, how are you, you know? And they they were kind of very nice to me because I was a kid. Obviously, they're like super happy that somebody of my age group was there I was the obviously the only young guy there. And I and I talked I didn't present it. It was more a talk about oh, you know, I've communicated this the video, they played the video and And it It was the very first time I participated in something. And I got in the car and my dad said, Every time you talk to these people, let me know. 'Cause it for him it was just like What are you doing with all these adults? Right. Right? Cause you're a kid. And I said, Well, I go, they they told me to come here, you know. And you're taking it seriously, right? Oh, absolutely. It was very One of the things that I'll I'll never forget. is my dad's no longer with us, but he was Always supportive. Always. He was the most supportive dad in the world in what I was doing. It was also Conservative, Catholic, old school. But a hundred percent supportive in what I was doing. He supported me. Every time he would hear somebody make fun of me because I was into UFOs. He would back me up at a hundred percent. That was something that was amazing. My mom, too, and she's she's still with us and she's freaking out that her son made a movie. But it, you know, and For me it was At least my parents are not. against us 'cause a lot of people also had that. happen to them where their parents or their families were not supportive of the looking into this s topic. So that's the first thing I'd done. And that essentially then got me really I mean I I must have read I don't know, forty, fifty books when I was in my teens about it. I found a picture recently. I should send it to you. I sent it to Chris Ramsey, who's a friend of mine. I said, dude, check this out, and it's a picture of my bedroom. Back then. With all my books and you see all my UFO books. And it's an old picture in my you know And he was like, Oh my God It's like Yeah, you see I was a freaking geek. You know, like all all the books were about UFOs. So I was I all I did was read about it. For the longest time. Definitely send us that picture, we'll throw it. I will. And it it's like there's my telescope in the picture and stuff and those uh Legit geek. So It sounds very familiar to me, Luigi. You're you're you're home here. Good. Well, I mean, now it's cool. You know, like now we're having a conversation about this and I find that so This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states. Such a breath of fresh air and I love all these new people getting involved in it and it's There's traction, there's people listening, you know? But and so all that time. I investigated, obviously was doing Not investigations, I guess just researching in information like a lot of people do. And Uh eventually got you know, really involved and uh became national director over the years. But but what were you doing in between? What kind of investigation kind of work? Well the most the the biggest investigations I personally participated in were always in Quebec. Okay. Uh, that's the ones I really put a lot of effort on. I used to manage some of the investigations that were happening outside of the Quebec province. I wasn't the investigator. I was just basically managing the the investigations. The ones I personally partake uh uh participated in were a lot to do with the uh black triangular crafts that were out there. I participated in uh investigating the one there's a big event that happened in nineteen ninety in Montreal in Montreal downtown where they saw uh uh something in the air in the clouds and there was like a lot of witnesses. It's called the the Place Bonaventure uh UFO event and a very good friend of mine, Marc Saint Germain Uh wrote a book about it. And uh basically looked into a lot of local stuff that I could be active in because I wasn't travelling as m I I also that it's important to note that was not my full time job. That's not what not that didn't pay the bills, by the way. Okay. So it's important to make that little caveat on the side is That's not how you make money. You're not really making money now in this field. And a lot of people who, you know, call us grifters or something like that. It's like I I I would really like to know where that money is because a lot of times it's it's an investment out And no return, and the only return is information. That's it, right? So I have I I started a company In um Many years ago. Uh spent years in China going back and forth in China and This is m you were doing merchandise? I'm a merchandiser. Product I'm a product developer, a brand developer, merch specifically through merchandise. So I I basically have been behind the scenes for many, many years. Producing merchandise for people who have brands, right? So it's like when I see your your cups, you know Basement and anything that's merch I would be the guy behind the scenes. Developing stuff for people. I also own uh a license in Montreal. I own the the public transit commission license. So we do it's like it's like when you go to New York and you see the MTA subway stuff. Well, I have the Montreal license for all of that. And I've been producing stuff for the NHL and a whole a whole bunch of museums of some of the biggest museums in the world. I produce stuff for them. So that's what paid the bills. Right. So I was doing that and that at the same time. As I was, you know. Eventually. Seeing that it was Finally gaining traction. And I and I say This Even a long time ago, it was like a real difference, even ten, fifteen years ago, it was still super, super not good, but not as bad. As the eighties and the early nineties. Well before you bring us up to date, what does an investigation even look like if you're if you're inside Mufon. So the first thing that happens at MuFon is there's a CMS uh data base, they call it. Okay. And customer management? Yeah, it's kind of like a customer management Yeah, it's like a a a a An internal Uh you you you plug in all the data of an investigation. Call comes in. Call comes in, somebody who's a field investig. So they could call they could call MUFO. They they'll say, All right, we're gonna refer you to the local field investigator of your area. So if it's you know Nebraska or something, they'll reach somebody out there. That person then contacts the witness. goes through a a an i an initial call and in in kind of basically assessing is this even worth Plugging in. 'Cause most aren't, right? I would say ninety eight percent right aren't. Okay. So and and a lot of people get upset when I say that. But that's the truth. I mean the reality is A lot of people They saw something. But it wasn't It was an ET, okay? It was it was a a tremendous amount of misidentifications or s Very Terri like Th the moon is very bright. But if it's behind a cloud, it could appear somebody who's not wearing their glasses, they could see something else. It it there's so many Aspects to it. There's a an initial U screening process. And a lot of times through the screening process nothing happens. But then if there is something that happens, and there's a lot of cases, by the way, I mean there's A lot of people that call in. And those things then get uh entered in CMS. So then the im if the investigator deems it to be worthy of Either they go meet with the uh witness, if it's in proximity to them, or if they could do it. 'Cause a lot of them are doing this on their on on their free time. U again, nobody's getting paid to do this. Or they uh could do it over the phone. And now the beauty of Zoom or video calls as probably 'cause I'm not in it anymore, but it's probably gotten even easier because you could do a video call. Save yourself a trip. Let's say you go see the the witness. You meet with them. That also is a big determinator of whether you're dealing with somebody who is Uh I I don't wanna call them dishonest. Are they Are they honestly assessing it properly for themselves? That's the that's the right way of saying it's not not they're not dishonest. Are they just overly excited? Right. 'Cause there's a lot of that. If you if you go out looking for something Sometimes you're gonna find it. Especially if you want it to be. Right. You know? Like I I saw it. I saw that. What what did you see? You know, it's like a light. Okay, what did it do? It was just moving near the trees. That could have been a plane. You know what I mean? No, I never see planes there. Well It doesn't mean the plane didn't go there. You know what I mean? So It it it's it's so sometimes it's a frustrating thing and I became I was very str uh I was very strict, by the way. uh I think the years of experience was making me very strict. So I was Also not getting along with some of the investigators who also they wanted it to be that so that they could be an investigator on a case. A lot of hate that's gonna come at me from saying this, but that's the reality of it. Well the m m people know that Mufon's kind of infamous for infighting and the politics inside. between the believers and I don't want to call you a skeptic, but it's more like a tight funnel. That's right. If you have a tight funnel, then what comes out is really important. That's very it that was crucial because otherwise we're wasting resources. Yes. Period. The reality is Regardless of how And you know, uh in in terms of evidence. Obviously everybody says you have a picture, you have a video. Do you have something? Do you have, you know, uh tracks? You have a landing you know, if they landed, do you have do you see something? Do you have radiation? Do you have a detector that you went through? Anything. So those are obviously the ones that are m of most interest 'cause now you have something. tangible piece of something that you can work with other than I was outside, I was smoking a cigarette, I saw light in the sky. Okay. Like and and it and I say that. Thinking, Mike, that's what happened to my granddad? And that's what made me going. So I'm not disputing that that's not possible. But we have to be careful. And not immediately saying that's a flying sauce or a UFO or or whatever. But when they have a picture or a video and it is interesting, then yeah, that information get would get put into a CMS, there's a whole list of questions you have to ask uh the person and then There's also А за директор, I had access to all uh investigations. So I had access to seeing if there was a pattern in that area within a certain time. If you' I saw this um you know long Black object in the sky, and they're in Winnipeg. Okay, well, do we have anything around Winnipeg that's saying that? You know, if you hear another one, oh, that's Definitely of interest versus no, I don't hear. So it could be interesting, but okay. What what do we do with it? I still have people reach out to me almost on a daily basis, even the fact that I did this film. they think that I'm actively investigating. So they'll be like, Uh check this out. I I have a picture and it's like thousand feet away and it's a little dot and I'm like, okay, I mean anything with it. What can I do with that? Right. You know, it it's not helping the I I appreciate it. I I I understand the need to share it. But we're not gonna get anywhere with it. Even if I could zoom in. And see that it doesn't have wings. Okay. Right. You know this is not gonna make the cut. There was a a lot of Guarding of stuff and and and there was. Did you come across anything that that passed all your tests? Oh absolutely. You did? Oh absolutely. Uh there again, black triangular crafts is the one I really put a lot of effort in. There was The object? Or are we talking lights in a shape? Oh, object. Absolutely clearly undeniable black triangular craft. Not a TR three B or anything. No. Well, again, you know Everybody says T R three B. I don't It's a From what I heard from witnesses and from the time frames that they come in, which I'll I'll say this. As I was investigating And we're talking, you know, a a good eight Eight, nine years of invet. Very, very active investigating. Um you would I would meet people Who would be like, Hold on, my wife will talk to you. You know, they they had something happen, and the wife comes out and says Uh I saw it in nineteen ninety six. Right. And I never went public because I didn't w and my kids saw it. None of the kids are Grown up. I had a case, in fact. The witness saw the black triangular craft. I meet with the witness. And then it's his wife. says she had seen it. She had seen it with her kids, like that they were remarried or something, and the kids weren't at home. And I said, Could I speak to them? They're they're adults now. They were outside playing in nineteen ninety six, and they said There was a black triangular craft right on top of the trees with all these colorful lights. They said come unarbre de Noël in French, like a Christmas tree. And it's like, oh so and and I spoke to these adults and they say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it it was there. Now this is something that wasn't current. This was in nineteen ninety six. They never reported it. Because they didn't Report it. Because now somebody was in contact with me reporting it. Oh, let me go get her and then boom boom boom and you're finding out. Oh really? A Black Triangler Craft was run here in nineteen ninety six? What it did is it made me start questioning Is this really a government thing? Like is it if it was the government And it's always possible, by the way. Mm-hmm. I don't ever omit the possibility that it's terrestrial, by the way. That's a very important thing. You can't assume ET is driving this thing. If it's terrestrial, well that means that something was already in play in ninety six. That's a long time ago, right? And if that's the case. Why would they be flying at low altitude? Or hovering, if you want to call that. No sound. In the in the Laurentians north of Montreal. Where there's nothing. There's no reason For being out there. There's no There's an airport, but it was it's a it's a FedEx lens there, UP S it's a cargo airport. There's nothing that would be like, yeah, the government is testing secret aircraft and they're flying over people's cabin like the Laurentians are known for ski resorts and all that. Like why would you Why there? Yeah, the sound is always interesting because we're here in Vegas, so we see test flights all the time. They're so loud they'll set off every car alarm in the city. So when you say it made no sound, that's that is a big deal. And there was one incident that I The mo the most credible I would say the one that really, really struck me happened in two thousand thirteen. The the gentleman reached out to me in two thousand fourteen because he found out I existed. Because he didn't know who to call in two thousand thirteen. And uh I reach I finally reached out to him. He was in southwestern Ontario. And he said, This is a normal Every day You know. Blue collar guy. Driving a pickup truck, wearing a baseball cap, n plays baseball. Cool dude. Not a UFO guy. He's coming home two in the morning. He was with his friends driving in the middle of Southwestern Ontario. Turns and there's a Uh a small town. That you blink and you miss it. In uh In Ontario. And he says he sees to him like fire in the sky. And it was coming down. And he thought it was a helicopter on fire. So he's just like oh sh you know, like let me go help these guys and to the right. So he turned to the right and he's driving, you know, trying to see where it's going down. Eventually stops his truck because there's a there's a church. And the triangular craft. It was a black triangular craft. He saw it. He says I could clearly see it. had lights on each end, and in the middle of it Plasma. It looked like plasma. He said it looked like lava moving. And it was right above the uh church. Tower where the cross is. And he was like Stops the truck. He he stops the truck in right on the road. What's it in park? opens the door and puts one foot out and one foot in truck and he's looking up at this thing and he's like, What the hell is that? And he says in an instant. And he says it was so fast. I don't say a hundred meters away, hundred yards away. It went right in front of him at twenty feet. Below the the traffic uh the the street light. Below Below the street light. Okay. How big was this thing? He says it was around twenty feet. Yeah. I uh in in in length, if you want to call it. He said it looked like it was a shiny black diamond uh they it looked like shiny black diamond uh little bricks. He he drew it for me like these little bricks. He said the the top of it wasn't flat. Had like a uh it was like flat and then Up at at a point, but he couldn't see it very well from this angle. And he's looking at this and he's like What's this? And He said there was not it was first of all, he said it didn't make any sound. Also all the sound away, I couldn't hear anything. That's interesting. Yeah. He says it was It's like you're in a in a sound room where you don't hear anything. He said that's what it felt like. It was complete silence. That's gonna track with some of the physics with Bob story and others. I I believe so. And so now what made it really interesting when I was when he's describing this to me. And he said something that made me kind of believe him really quickly. He says I thought They had a projector. Somewhere. And that they were gonna come out with balloons and I was gonna be on candid camera or something. Cause he's like, What am I looking at? You know what I mean? He's like there ha it has to be a projection for it to move so quickly. That's what he's he's he's not thinking it's a real thing. He's like Where's the cameras, you know? I think that's why there's so few photographs or video of things like that. My brother had a setting similar. You're so out of your element. You're not you're not thinking. You're not thinking. What is this? And he said it to me, he said, Luigi If I took out my camera my phone and snapped a picture. I would have had the best picture in the world. of one of these things, but it didn't even occur to me, he said. I was going, What am I looking at? It's happening, you know, live. So you're just Focused. He says it it tilted a little bit. There was a a tiny little cemetery. Right to his right. Really small cemetery. And it just Went like that and it moved so quickly over the cemetery ground. And he's Scared 'cause now it moved again. So he's just like, What's it gonna do? And it's and it had a a red um A laser, if you want to call it a laser, but it in a s he said it it was like a sewing machine. Da Doing this on the cemetery ground. Like a it was scanning it, but like the laser was going to like really fast, like a sewing machine. Did you ever did you ever hear about the Devil's Den sighting? No. This is the exact same story. Same craft, same laser beam. Really? Penturch in in Wales similar. Devil's Den is this exact story. The crap the thing in the middle and what really set me off is this laser description. They said they saw the same thing, this repeating laser, and it looked like it was scanning their campsite. Exact same story. Oh wow I didn't know that I didn't know the story. So This is exactly what he sees. When he saw that, he said That's when I got scared. He says, at that moment I got scared because he's like, Is that a weapon? Cause he doesn't know. He's just like, What is that thing? Why is it doing that? You know? So he Kind of stepped into the truck a little bit, looking at it through the cab the cabin window on the other side. And he said it basically just Tilted. And slowly He says. It flew away. behind the trees and that was good it and was it. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsor Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. When he met with me. He was So Worried that I was gonna make fun of him. He was And he kept saying. I I I really saw this and I'm like, Okay, I believe you. He's like, I d I don't want you to think I'm crazy, man. I'm like, No, I I I don't think you're crazy. But he was so concerned, it was so not his thing that he thought, I can't even believe I'm talking about this because I didn't think this could ever happen to me. And I was like, I I I believe you. So I even investigated him. I I I said To make sure I want a second opinion. There's a a a man who I'm very thankful for knowing. His name is Professor Don Don Dary from McGill University in Montreal. He's w written books on this. He's a friend of mine. He's getting older now, but still doing well. At the time I called Don he's a he's a a a PhD in perceptive psychology. Done a lot of work for the government and all that. It's very well respected. And I said I would like for you to meet this witness. Just to assess. I wanna have a second opinion. And I and I introduced so Don came out, we went to Ontario together and met with him. And when we walked out of there and got in the car, Don said he's he's completely sane. He's a he's a he's saying the truth. He says what Felt like he was being a hundred percent honest. And he this guy kept saying, I I don't want this to go public. I don't I don't need the the you know, the the attention or anything. So why would he do that? Why would this guy Not want any attention. Very credible. You know, for Don to to kind of validate that for me because I If I get to a point where okay, I really believe this. I need somebody else to like validate that I'm not missing something here. Right? Yep. And so it was interesting. And then For that to be validated. that got me really intrigued in what these cases were happening in in with the Black Triangular Crafts. So I started mapping them out. I can share this with you so you can show it on on the screen after we're done. But I have a image of that map. Um The sidings of black triangular crafts at that time. All around that area. All the way Around Lake Ontario. Toronto. North of Toronto. And believe it or not. In the Laurentians in in Quebec. What do you think they were doing there? I have no idea. There's no pattern to the sightings? I have no idea. No, they just people seeing it. Yeah. So between twenty thirteen and twenty seventeen. There's two hundred catalogue cases. in that area. That's a lot of people. Yep. Why would all these people claim to have seen a black triangular craft? If Even if we went which is unlikely, but if we discarded half of them. That's still a lot of people. And for every one of those, there's ten that didn't report it. Oh, for sure. I mean that that's actually It's a really good point that you raised because I had By by me. doing this, I met with people who didn't want to report it. But they said, Yeah, I I saw something, but I don't want to talk about it. Do you guys check with law enforcement to see? Oh, I I absolutely I worked with the Because I was director, I had a contact in all the different police. Sure. So I also worked with R C M P, which is federal police. They would I had a contact with them. I had a contact with MUC police. I had w of course you have to with uh La Sûreté du Quebec, which is the provincial police there. There was a sortie du Quebec police officer who saw it. But he didn't his wife His wife talked to us with her name, but he didn't want to. No. Yeah. He was like, No, no, no, no, no. I don't wanna so we have his testimony. He saw it. But he wouldn't talk about it. So and this is frustrating and it frustrates A lot of people absolutely agree that it's frustrating because they say, Well if it's evidence, why don't they want to talk it? Why wouldn't they why wouldn't they put it out? Well think about it. They have families, they have friends. Us. Forget. Forget. Forget the audience who wants this. Their lives are affected. If they suddenly say, I saw something anomalous in the air. It's their prom story for you. Exactly. They don't want that. They don't want that in their life. They don't need it. And I respect that. Because they have They have their own personal reasons for that. It's an important thing to all all to to bring up when you're talking about investigating this stuff because there's a human component to all of it too. So I consider that to be uh some of the most compelling stuff that I ever worked on. And I eventually uh started working alongside um One of the aerial school witnesses. I was just gonna ask you about your interest in a aerial school. Maybe just a quick sum up of the this audience knows the story, but a quick sum up of Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a case in nineteen ninety four, uh, in the middle of a recess at ten fifteen in the morning at a at a small elementary school in rural Zimbabwe in Rua, Zimbabwe. Uh, kids were playing outside. Over sixty kids were playing outside. And the teachers were inside having a teachers meeting. And suddenly they see three objects in the sky, three craft, three flying saucers, if you want to call, silver discs. One of them landed at about a hundred uh meters, hundred yards from the from the school. From the They had a a a place where they could play. And they had these logs, these wood logs. that were all around and they call them the the the log barrier. So the kids couldn't go beyond beh beyond it. So they play sometimes they would jump around the long log barrier. And the kids are playing there and this thing land outside the log barrier landed. And they're all obviously what is that? What is that? They heard a high pitched sound. And it then it went away and then they're seeing these These They didn't know what it was, but they saw people running. Right, from a distance. And uh my friend who passed away, Emily Trim, who was one of the witnesses there, was next to Lisel Field. who is interviewed by John Mack in some of these interviews, they were and they s and the and these beings came close to the kids. And they were not human. And they were not the kids initially thought they were animals of some type because they I mean, these are kids between seven years old, twelve years old. And so they were all looking at this, and there's these two beings. Uh, that were apparently dressed in black jumpsuits, standing, obviously, and big black eyes. And they started communicating to the kids. The kids started Seeing images in their minds. And some of those images were very terrible images, very negative, very very Traumatic images. Like what? Um People dying, uh no air, people suffocating, uh images of of the earth and and war and and things that we I guess Something that had to do with what's happening or what could happen. And uh and they they all saw an explosion at the end. And it was like a um a big giant fiery explosion. This is not something that kids are used to. Especially in rural Zimbabwe in nineteen ninety four. So it it became a big story at a at that time. Obviously and then these beings communicate and then they disappeared. They just Banished. And the school reset the bell rang, this everything disappeared, kids ran into school screaming, you know what they saw. Teachers didn't believe them. Nobody believed them. They thought that you know, we gotta go back to class. Let's go back, you know, gotta go study. And the kids are like they're freaking out. So They eventually Got To a point where they realized the kids saw something. Cause they they were freaking out. I mean, there's no way you can calm sixty some kids that saw this. They're not gonna just go back to class and learn about math. There's we gotta talk about this. And so um They brought in Cynthia Hind, which was a Mufon investigator in South Africa at the time. She came in with a guy called Gunter. Check radiation. Giger counter counter, thank you. And so he they went on on the school grounds and And I have the pictures. From uh Gunter and you could see where it landed. I've seen those. You can see it. Yeah you could see it where it landed. Uh, there was no radiation detected uh on the ground. So But something crushed all that something crushed all that, right? And uh the kids were visibly affected. And uh event it got to new it got to Tim Leach, which was a B B C reporter. who r ran it as a big story on the B B C he was covering Some of the atrocities that were happening in Botswana and uh Zaire at the time. There's a lot of bad things happening in Africa. And uh he said, This was this is a big deal. Like these kids eat met with them. He goes, They're not they're not lying. Everybody's saying the same thing. And it got to the uh the ears of uh Professor John Mack from uh Harvard. Yep. He was in great he was in uh in London at that moment and decided to take a plane and fly down. And interviewed a lot of the kids and determined They're saying something that they saw. And we can see all those interviews that are available. Yeah. And they're they're compelling. I mean, you could see in the eyes of those kids. They saw something. Now, you know, a lot of um lot of stuff related to that. And I I became very close friends with Emily Trim. She was there and had seen this and it affected her a lot. Her brother You dedicated your movie to her. Yes, I did. Well, did you and Emily work together? А спент тень єрс. With Emily. Not not People thought I was dating Emily. I never dated Em Emily. She was a she became a very close friend of mine and had a lot of uh trouble dealing with the trauma of what had happened Ariel and something else that had happen to her when she was twenty one. Again, related to all this. By the way, for anybody listening. This was not the end of that with these uh kids or the people that were there. There was things that happened after. And that's not been reported. There have been a lot of people have had things that happen to them after which were very traumatizing. Does this connect to your work with David Jacobs? Yes. Absolutely. Can who can you explain who he is and what David Jacobs so this brought me to really a look into These contact events or these encounters, if you want to call them. And uh I started reading more about it. I already knew a lot. I had read a lot of the books in the past of Bud Hopkins and all that, but I want to kind of refresh It it it's kind of like a different section of the research. You have to really separate yourself from that and start looking into the encounter stuff. And I Uh I asked I remember reading a couple of uh David's books. And I call and I called uh Don Donderi, who's a friend, and I said I I I'd really like to talk to him. And he says I can arrange that. I'm I'm close with with uh with David. So you arrange that. And uh we had some exchanges. And he eventually inv invited me to go out to his house and I spent Lots of time with David. And relationship became very important to me because he saw how incredibly interest that I interested I was in learning. this, but learning this on a professional level, not just a superficial booklet. Like you could read a lot about this stuff, but it's also written in a way so it's digestible for people. Who is David and what did he do? David so yeah my but my bad. Uh David Jacobs is was Uh one of the most researchers in abductions in the world. He was uh one of the reasons why John Mack also got involved in this. Maybe was a psychologist. No, actually no. No he's a PhD in history. He's a history uh PhD, but he's not a psychologist. But known for regression therapy. He he started He he when I met him Uh he had already involved in this for forty years. So he had an um a a lot. of uh in experience in it. And when I when I went to his house, for anybody who knows Um The abduction expert back then. It was like Bud Hopkins was one of those. David had all of Bud Hopkins' work in his basement. All of it. Wow. And so it's a lot of work. Oh yeah. And I went down he's he took me downstairs in his base in his basement. I'll never forget. And it was filled almost to the to where the windows 'cause it it like I'm talking stacks of files. Filing cabinets. Cassette tapes, you know the the cassette tapes? I mean thousands of them. And he said this is all of Bud's work. I hope that's digitized somewhere. So I was myself and Randall Nickerson knew that that was at David's house. Randall actually helped move it there because he was close to Bud Hopkins. And uh uh David said, I don't know what I'm gonna be doing with this, but I I need this to never be lost, you know? And I said, Let me know what whatever how how I can help. Um he eventually found a way to get it to the uh I believe it's the Philadelphia museum or s a s some educational museum. has all this work in their possession. Somebody could go there and I I could find out exactly w I can't remember the name now, but you could go there and access all the all it's all stored in the archives there. So it's not lost, right? Uh, which is good. Very, very good. And uh And I spent two years. uh train tr being trained by David Jacobs. Trained. Yeah. It would to be we would do we would do uh at the time there was no Zoom, there was uh Sc uh Skype. So I had I can't I don't remember how many we would do Skype calls 'cause he's in n he was in Philadelphia, I uh Montreal. And we would do them at night, eight PM to eleven PM. So we'd do three hours every night. Or every second night. And Basically Telling me the ins and outs of this phenomenon. What to watch out for what be perceived as evidence and it's not. Potentially B mm mm. not a real memory. You know, so there was a lot of stuff that I learned in that time, including Um Some Very uh it's not confidential. It's kind of like uh it's like when you when you work in something Like this. You have to be careful how you Word it. to the person that you're either regressing, interrogating, speaking to, whatever You have to be very cautious what words you use. This is a criticism of John's work of John Macwork. It was kind of leading. Exactly. You have to be very careful about that, because you could exactly lead them or Build some alternate memory. It it's a very tricky thing. So You have to be very Cautious also with hip uh regressive hypnosis, because it could you could have lies in that. Sure. Okay. Or or if not intentional. Unintentional. You could create a memory. You could create a memory, absolutely. So there was a lot of that. I'm absorbing this obviously 'cause I'm very interested in in in the topic. And so that was in a very uh Very rich. period of my life because I was learning a lot of this, reading a lot of this. And every time and I was also while that is happening. I'm Very close to Emily and and She had not wanted to open up about her k her experiences and had decided to open up to me. But in in small steps. And I respected that. You know, because there was so much emotion a attached to it. And uh David's training to me was always very important because I he always said he all in fact he's he's unfortunately uh not that well with his health. So He doesn't he's not he's not active anymore, but um He would always say whenever you meet somebody who's had an experience And wants to be regressed. Convinced them not to do it. Very interesting. Yeah always said that. Always do your best. Even if they beg you to do it. Pay attention to w how they are. Make sure that they're not already experiencing something traumatic in their life? Like are they having marital issues? Are they having health issues? Do they have problems with their job or whatever? Because this will Hundred percent. Bring up some bad things. Whether they like it or not. could further damage whatever is already happening in their life. They don't need this. And we don't need this. We don't need any would say B. uh selfish in wanting to know what their trauma. is. This is another tight funnel guy. Absolutely. You have to be careful about that. What did um you learn from Emily that You don't have to betray confidence. I know she's passed recently. Emily was extremely like we were I mean, I can't even begin to tell you how extremely close we had become and she was so generous with information. She was years. She really was. And she was suffering a lot. I mean the the the The amount of people that wanted stuff from Emily, um, was really It was really a lot. And she would Always close up. And not want to to share. I had to It that whole part of my life. was I think I I'll say it I felt like I graduated, okay? So all those years all the investigations and all that, I felt like that was like I had become like really top of my game. I was like in last year of high school and the the oldest guy in in the school. And now I graduated. I'm going to college and I'm the youngest guy and I'm learning something completely new. Really? Yeah, that's how it felt. Because when you when I went into The Communication, contact, and all that. That was Нач Uh It's not nuts and bolts. It becomes emotional. An emotional is a difficult thing. You don't you're no longer I'm no longer talking to you about something that is logical. I'm talking about an emotional response. And that is not the same. No, and it's trauma emotion. Trauma emotion. Exactly. So I became very conscious of the fact that I don't want to spark any trauma on somebody 'cause I'm inquisitive. You know what I mean? Or I'm interested, or I'm curious about this. So I have to be I have to learn all over again to be like, Okay, because if I can ask you, you know, is the flying saucer that it had tripods that it not have tripods. Okay. You know, then have legs, no legs, whatever. That's like nuts and bolts, but When you were crying, were you crying because you were scared or were you crying because you were traumatized? It's a completely different Interaction. So You have to be very And again. I always say I can't I used to say, I can't believe I'm the guy doing this. Because I shouldn't be. There should be absolute experts in psychology. That are not sitting down with these people, assessing them, or let's say trying to judge to see what's their problem. Right. See what I mean? That's a good distinction. Yeah. It's like let's not look at them as there's a problem. Let's find out what happened. Right. There's a huge difference there. And that's kind of where I used to be like, Man, do we really have a lot to learn here? People. Because Here we wanna know what is this what is this? What is all this? What what what's it all about? We don't know. We know that something is happening and these people are experiencing things and and this was where I was at, where I'm seeing them Reliving Trauma, cry a lot of crying, a lot of emotional Stuff. And We have to look at that. No longer as investigators. But also as humans, as a human being. Basically It became a thing where it's like if I if I do believe this is really happening to you because I I could a s I guess you have to have a certain degree of credibility as well in the story. So yes, there I have to kind of assess it to go, you're not a nut job, because there are some, by the way. But once you've passed that. I I wanna be I wanna be a a a safe place for you when I'm talking to I don't want you to think that I'm trying to get information from you and I'll walk away with it. Yeah you give it to me. Good. You don't give it to me. Even the better. I'm here to help. I'm here to make you know that you're not alone in this. Clearly something seems like it happened to you. I feel bad that you have to suffer from all this because it's it's a lot of People What I learned a lot about this is They would open up to me. And would say My husband doesn't even know this happen. Save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's. Right now get 10% off In Stock Truk's Natural Decking. Now available in more styles. Plus get 15% off, select custom entry, interior, and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site to help keep your jobs moving. Get the brand's Pro's Trust, priced right, and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valentin 527. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. And I'm like, Are you kidding? Yeah, you I you can't talk to this about my husband. I know one person, I'm not gonna name her name. Her husband divorced her. Because she show she ended up being in a documentary about what happened. Oh my goodness. And he divorced her. That's terrible. Because it's that's impossible. And and and I can assure you she was there. There's other witnesses that were there with her. So it it if she was making it up, they all had to make it up. Everybody was making it up. Right. So it it was a r it's a really different thing. And I was very fortunate to have worked with with David to got all that information. David would also provide me information that was never to be divulged publicly. About small things that could happen. In an event. that would indicate that this is a true event. Uh Things that they Example. Well I can't Get into that because he would say, if you mention these things to the to the witnesses or to the people that have gone through the encounters. Other people will hear you say that and they'll say they had that happen to them. They will. You see what I mean? Mm-hmm. So you have to keep a certain One of the thing I the only thing I can tell you is There is One thing in particular which stuck with me. There's one thing they do. To us. Not all of them, but In a large in a large uh percentage of the cases. that they do to us on our back. Did that happen to Emily or and the kids in Ariel? No. Not at all. That that was a separate uh the kids at Ariel Um the event. is really a unique event. And I consider it to be Possibly one of the most important events. Because they landed. And communicated with so many children. All those witnesses. I can I can say this now. I could believe that. Okay. And All those people Lived that for many, many years. And I talk to them now. Oh. Sticking to that story. If it didn't happen. Because a lot of people say they just imagined it, it's mass hallucination or whatever. Mm-hmm. They're all in their thirties, in their forties. They would keep doing this. You you're telling me all these people are all in on it still today? Would you be in on it? DJ, like would you still keep a lie that you you kept with your friends when you were nine? That's that's ridiculous. There's something that happened. They these Creatures whoever they were. They were creatures, they were real I ask them, a lot of people say, Do you think they were AI robots or something? You know, people are talking about So I asked I I keep referring to them as the kids, but they're not kids anymore, so it's kinda I'll say kids just because they were kids when it happened, but I asked the kids, I said You think they were robots. Not at all. They they were real. Living You know. I mean, but do you don't you think it's possible? And all of them are like, No, no, no, no. These were they were they were alive. Because of the communication, they could feel it. The way they felt it the way they moved that that they said these were a hundred percent living creatures. No. Were they just really, really good robots? I doubt it, but it could I can't um I can't say I I don't know the I don't know. I can't confirm that. Something happened on that day. And something was communicated to these kids. And they all saw it. Do you think it was intentional land that landing? Or 'Cause this some of the stories are it was a repair or I I don't know and I and I heard of course I heard that, you know, and some people saying the craft was not flat on the ground, it was on an angle like that. Um Look, it's very possible. that it was not intentional. Very, very possible. Um We don't know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's possible. I'll I'll say that because it even believe it or not, even they, even the kids go, Yeah. I don't know. They'll say we don't know what what what it was. We were just playing. And it's like and that happened. You know, so It was uh there was a there was one of them. really struck me. Very, very um She's Catholic or Christian, whatever it is, but Uh, she says, I don't believe in aliens. I don't believe in flying saucers. But I I can't explain what I saw that day. I mean that says a lot. The some of the videos are I I'm recalling them now are the kind of heartbreaking. Um before we go to to a quick break and get to S four. Let's just finish off with with with Emily. Let's give her a send off. What would she want people to know? Wow. She was an incredibly wonderful person, very sensitive. Went through a lot when she was uh a kid because of it. But it behind like Buried it. Like with her brother, who buried it. Her brother was there. Um recently had a really nice time to get to know him more. Um She was She was she would always say to me I'll say what she said to me at the very end, but I'll say something she said to me couple of years before she passed. She says We're all lying to each other. She says The world is lying to each other, Luigi. She would say that to me all the time. Everything is a lie. It's not that we're doing this. purposely, but we're we're constantly lying to each other. Because the whole goal For all of us is to become something in this society. So we're lying to each other and we're all on the wrong path. She ke She kept repeating that to me. We're always lying to each other. That struck a big chord to me, 'cause she I she would say it with such Like With tears in her eyes, she says. I don't know how to explain it, but we're not being honest with one another. And it's like like humans are not saying the truth to each other. We're we're always there's always a guard. We're always keeping certain things and we're always saying it in a way where we it's like we're always in an interview. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we're not saying everything, but it's true. We we we do lie to each other. I I guess we're not lying like, hey, I have like three three yachts. I'm not that's not the type of lies I think she's talking about. No, there's a social performance. Exactly. So she wants us to what? Just I think she sh I think she felt that we were losing Um We were losing Uh Track of ourselves. She had a a um a butterfly so This is important. When This happened. After it happened, she had multiple other encounters. She wasn't the only one. And those were things that really affected her. For some reason there was a communication with these beings. communicated something to her about uh Butterflies. She called it the butterfly story. And she called it Where did all the Butterflies go? And she says it was Something they told Mm. And she wrote it down. She goes, I wrote it. As I was receiving it. And she said it in in two thousand fifteen, we were in Arizona, and she said it on on stage. I have a video of it. And it was the most Touching thing. Everybody in the crowd was crying. The whole crowd was crying. It was She called it Where did all the butterflies go? And she said the butterflies represented them. Them. And that They said And that She was representing us in the conversation with the butterflies. She said Why are you leaving? Why are you all going away? And they said We're going away because You're doing things that doesn't don't allow us to be there with you. You're not taking care of your environment. You're not taking care of your world, essentially. But don't go away. She kept saying don't go away. They said we can come back. Up to you. To make that happen. So she would say this, she said this in a in a beautiful monologue that she did on stage. It was very nice. And she said It was a it was f it felt like They're trying to communicate. To us. To be better. But not Technologically better. Better as people. And when I last saw her. The very last time Hm. Then I saw her. She stood she she was sitting in front of me. She didn't look like her anymore. She had changed. But her eyes were her eyes. And she said Came down from the sky. And landed in front of us. Talk to us so that we could tell the world. And nobody cared. And she died a few days later. I'll never forget that. I hope you don't. That's an important message. Nobody cared. Because You know. I felt I could see it from her, you know, and I say And she and I I question why did this happen to her, you know? Because she was such a good person. She was important. Yeah. Such a good person. And I consider that I consider that to be one of the most important events. And we should listen. We should just listen to it. I mean Judging this. You know, everybody goes in with this Judgmental. shouldn't we shouldn't look at it like that. It's wrong. It happened. Why? Did it happen. W you know, somebody could say The thing wasn't operating properly. It landed, they they communicated. Well even if it was that. Still a message. Still a message. The message is important. It's important. And let's not also forget. The message That Day. In them. To convey to us. That's another Thing. Because now the message being conveyed. These kids. And they showed us what happens if we don't listen. Exactly. And then it also shows How judgmental we are. If They open up about it. We'll come back in a minute, give me a chance to use a tissue and we'll talk about uh S four. Yeah. Great. So it all started with a model. Yes, it did. It all started with a Potential. Collector quality die cast model. You were just trying to make a make a product? I just wanted to make a product because I'm a merchandiser. And I thought, let me make a really good flying saucer for everybody to have at home. And I got I I got his atten I got Bob's attention and uh He was impressed. He he basically asked me I got I finally got to talk to Bob Lazar. And I and How did you get through to Bob? That's not easy to do. No, that was actually I it was really a shot in the dark. I thought I could do this without Bob Lazar. I I had I spent months researching the whole story and all the uh as much of information I could find online about the sport model flying saucer. And there was a lot of information that was really unclear. I couldn't understand if w which part was real, which part some telephone game over the years, people changing stuff. So I said let me Let me try reaching out to him and at least see if he's willing to guide me in correcting just a few things and put his stamp of approval. And that would make it so much more interesting. And uh I reached out to United Nuclear Scientific, which is his company. I sent um I didn't send an email, I called. I just go called him. And uh Zach answered the phone and I said, I'm I'm so and so. I'm in a guy from Montreal. You guys don't know who I am. Here's my website. Here's some of the stuff I've done. I'm a merchandiser. I promise I'm not Some crackpot. I I know what I'm doing. I want to make this cool quality flying saucer. The only guy I know who's been in one who can give me some details about it, as opposed to somebody who's been in one. And frightened, you know, 'cause you know, so I said I wonder you know, I Don't expect this to go any further than this, but I gave it gave it a shot. So he says, Look, I don't know if Bob's gonna talk to you. I'll ask him. And so I got a call back two days later and and Zach goes, uh, yeah, he'll talk to you. Wow, how did that feel? I was like, Okay. I mean, for me it was just like I remember I was at the office, I saw United Nuclear on my phone. I said, Oh shit it's called you know, answer the phone they got tr they transferred to me and and I during those two days you're like he's there's no way I was like, There's no way he's gonna talk to me. I'm like, Who who am I? Plus I'm in Montreal, I'm far away. Anyway, um He says, Yeah, he'll talk to you. He saw some of the stuff you like he'll talk to you. I said, Oh. Okay. So I said, When do you want to do that? He said, Tomorrow, give me a time. I can't I for me it was six PM. For him it was three PM 'cause the three hour difference. And uh got on the phone Bob Lazar. For me it was surreal. And I'm like, Bob, first of all, thank you for Being on the call. Pleasure to talk to you. And he was very nice. And so immediately he said, So what exactly do you want to do? Explain. I want to do a die cast model. I w I've I've made a lot of stuff in my life, so I know what I'm doing. And immediately he says, Okay, well if you would do it, how would you do it? What did he mean by that? He says there's he's told he told me this at a later time. He says, You have no idea how many people have reached out to me. With all these projects. And when when I would ask them How would you do it? I could tell they never done that before. Right. You know? Right. So he's just gonna bullshit it. Exactly. So he says He said, How would you do it? You know? And I and I said, Well how do you want me to explain it to you? Well, what kind of materials would you say? I started I I I gave 'em a run I mean I spent those fifteen years back and forth in China, I learned how to do stuff. So I gave him a real technical answer. And he was like, Oh. And I said, And as far as the wave guide is concerned, inside the craft I knew something about the wave guide. I said I would make that in two different materials for the model. One of them would be the metal, the other one would be a uh a silicone because we could we could mimic the f the the movement in the he goes, Okay, okay, stop. He goes, You I could see you know what you're doing, come and see me. Wow. And I bought the plane ticket. I'll never forget. He emailed me that night. And he says these are the dates I'd be available 'cause I'm more oh yeah, I have other stuff to do. I said, Great. I bought a plane ticket. Sent it to him, he says perfect. I flew out to Oregon. As I'm I I think I was in Denver. I was like a stop before getting to Oregon. He wrote me says tonight don't He goes, uh, come straight to my house tonight. We're gonna have dinner with my wife and stuff. And I said, Oh my God. Wow. It's great. Mm-hmm. So first time I met Bob Lazar was at his house and we had dinner. And it was Zach brought me there. Did you know that you were dining with a unicorn? I was like I couldn't believe it. I could not believe this is ha this had happened. And I'll I'll tell you a funny story. Uh I gave him a gift. I brought him a gift. So back in the in the late eighties when I would go to Italy. in my father's village, there was a lot of uh if you if you dug into the ground, you can actually find old and World World War Two shells. Like artillery shells that were still on like the the used ones, but they're underground. They could find them. collected many of them over the years and I keep them in a in a nice display in my house. But those are rare. Those are really rare. They're anti aircraft American shell that were used against the Germans. I took a shell. I said, Let me bring him one of these 'cause this is something from my family or you know, from where I'm from. And I get to the airport and in the security They stop it. I was gonna ask you how that went. And it it's an empty shell. And I read about it and you're allowed to do it, but You're not. You're allowed to do it on paper, but but apparently you're not allowed to do it at the airport. So they said no, you you can't go. You're gonna have to we're gonna have to throw it out. I said no, no, no, no, no, you're not throwing that out. So they said, Well you're gonna have to go and give it to somebody and come back through security. So I went back out. I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but I bought a uh a a cheap backpack that was at a stand. put it in there, I took some stuff out of my carry on, put it in the backpack, and I went and checked. The backpack. And I said, I have another check bag. I checked it, it passed, got to it got to order. Nice. So I gave him I gave him the the the The show. And uh anyway, we started talking and he said, Do you really wanna do this? You really think people are gonna wanna buy Flying saucer? I said, if it's done right, absolutely. And he says, Well, you didn't even hesitate. I said, No, I'm not hesitating. Hey kid, nobody's ever done that. Where were we gonna sell these? Like direct to consumer? I think it was gonna go der direct to consumer. I w it it It's still gonna happen, by the way. It hasn't happened yet, but We're not talking about like some plastic model here. We're talking about like some really high quality stuff. Where it's if you think about it, there's a lot of uh there's a lot of die cast collectors out there, or a lot of people collect models. There is not one Quality. Commercial grade, not artistic. Artists could do one of one, you know? I'm talking commercial industrial made. Flying saucer. It doesn't exist. No, it would look so sexy in here. Right? So I'm like I want A real flying saucer that somebody's gonna wanna put in their house and s that that's a cool piece, right? So that's what I want to do. And so that was the whole beginning of the project and and so it's gonna happen. It's just not The way it worked out didn't happen that way. But uh that was the beginning of the the whole uh the whole way I approach Bob Lazar. He was He's been absolutely incredible in in the initial stages I sat with him, spent two days with him. I we went o over everything. And he was extremely generous with his time. He corrected all there's so many corrections. I would say, This is what's on this website. And he's like, That's that's not I that's not it. He goes, It's like this and I had brought with me uh there was a model made in nineteen ninety four by the Testers Corporation. It's a plastic model made in the USA. It's available on eBay right now. Or about two, three hundred bucks. It's a really cheap model, but it's slightly accurate. Okay. It there's it's pretty accurate. There's a lot of Things that Or not, but it's accurate. So I had brought one with me. And he goes, Oh yeah, I remember this, you know, John Andrews and But If we knew more about our sleep. What would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time, or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? with sleep score. Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score, from one, So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from okay to Very high. Know your sleep score. with Apple Watch. IPhone eleven or later required. Іміді хі са. And the seat Shape is not accurate. And I said, Well that that's the whole point. Let's make it active. Let's get it right. Let's get it right. And so That turned out to be uh the biggest project I've ever done in my life. So what were you doing, just iterating with Bob with with three D design? We went yeah, so I came back to Montreal. I had a I had a lot of information that I had taken down. I went back to Montreal. I sat down with my team and I said, All right, let's start doing this. And we have a We built we made Two hundred page book. out of this. Of all the info 'cause we were gonna build it. So I I needed to have like a Everything I said it it has to be perfect. So What's in the book? Oh, I could show it to you. Show it. You should that should be another product. Yeah, yeah, I could show Oh absolutely. It will be to have that. It will be. Just notes and sketches and a million things. And it and it addresses the parts, the components, the how it how they looked inside and how we would have to build it if we had to create because by the way, because he had been inside, I ha my my Reasoning at the very beginning was if I have a a 13 to 14 inch diameter craft. And he you want to see the inside, well, you're gonna have to take it apart. Right. Well, that was part of how do I have consumers take it apart. How is it per you know, how is it gonna come together easily and not There was a lot. that went into that to create something that was beautiful as a product. And what kind of materials we would use and and all and so on. That's the thing was happening in a three D software. So I started building the craft, obviously, and in in the in the software We started building it in real size. We weren't building it in a thirteen inch or fourteen inch diameter. It was Fifty and a and and fifty two point nine feet in diameter. Sure. His real size. And Was the beginning. Of a complete Shift in my life. Where The way I was seeing it on screen. We started off Uh in Blender with just the craft. Blender and open source three D program. Absolutely. And then we said, Why don't we Why don't we make the box? Look like The interior of the hangar. You know if there's gonna be this flying saucer and we're gonna put it in a Collector box make it look like the hanger. This is a great product idea. Right. So I'm like let's make that happen. And so We had to build a hangar. And that was start and then Another part of my team started doing that in Unreal Engine. Ooh, four point seven. Yeah, exactly. And so The blender file was the craft, the Unreal Engine file was the hanger, and then we started Bob was like okay, well I'll I'll tell how that is so it looks real and We started asking a a billion questions, and as we got Further and further into this. We would constantly all of us at at at the at the at the team w in my team, we have question questions for Bob. Uh you know, so we had a booklet and we would write Oh, that's a question for Bob, go write it. And so we handwrite, You got it la ask him, blah blah blah blah blah. We need to know this. So I had a hundred and seventy eight questions for Bob So I I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna do this on Zoom. I called him, I said, Bob Why don't I just come out there? We knock this out of the park in a day. Worst case, two days. You can answer everything. And in person, it's always better in person 'cause you can have something in your hands and go like, you know. What are the questions like on that list? Well I I could send it to you. I No, I mean for people listening, just an example. For instance, okay. So inside the craft there's a archway superstructure. It's a There's in inside it looks like archways. Right. Well, the thickness of the archway. Oh, that that's pretty specific. Yeah. So how thick do you think the archway is? And I remember. The reason why I bring it up is I said That archway superstructure, you know, how thick do you think it was? I remember him saying it's about two inches. And what's really important, he said it was hollow. He had not mentioned that. No. It was hollow. It was hollow. And I found that to be extremely important. Yeah. Because I thought, oh, I wrote that down. I go, it was hollow. He goes, Oh yeah, it was hollow. I I touched it on the exit. Because When he was when he walked when he crawled into the craft. The archway's all around. So you have them right next to you or the the Let's say the the Surface of them. So I mean like I would have done, I would have you know of course we're gonna do that. You're sending me inside a flying saucer. I am I I I might lick the thing, you know? Because I wanna understand what am I what am I touching here. So So basically he said they were hollow. I found that to be very interesting. Um another one was uh where was the flag? Was it on the the reverse flag? Was that on the right or on the left? 'Cause we had determined there was a a sticker on the craft that was a flag. An American flag on the craft. On the craft. And I I don't remember him saying right or left. Right or left, where are we putting it, right? So it was on the left. Okay. There was a there was a million qu there was a whole bunch of questions like that. And you would you'd be surprised. I mean, you could go through all the details and still have, you know, a million questions, which by the way. Those were only the first hundred and seventy eight questions. Th there's a lot more that followed that. There's a lot of O C D in your personality. Yes, yes. I love it. Absolutely. And that's actually what Bob said. I rem Bob literally I was putting everything away. And he goes, You know? I have never met anybody. So detailed like you are. I look at him and I said, Well I hope that's a compliment because I'm trying to make su I'm trying to make sure I don't miss anything. He goes, No no, no. He goes, it's it's very good. He goes, I'm just impressed. Detailed you are. I'm gonna build if if this is true, I I I this is this is true. I'm about to build. ET object. I gotta make sure I do it right. Mm-hmm. Otherwise What am I doing? So it it gotta do it right. And so that was my the that the way I look at things. And so That got us into, you know, really perfecting it, mold molding the seats into it, or what we thought were the seats, the amplifiers, even the cut out ampli amplifier. He said it had been uh cut with a plasma cutter. I couldn't remember the details. I had to ask him. And he says it looked jagged. It looked like a they they didn't do that. They didn't do the clean job. Which I also I find amazing. 'Cause I'm like Who the hell does that? You know, but but that's how it was. Um And the interior of the emitters. In fact The emitters were something that I was very upset with myself for not having understood. He kept explaining them to me, and I completely messed up the way I wrote down all my notes. So I built Something completely wrong. And when he saw them, he goes, What are those? I said, The emitters He goes Completely wrong. I said, really? And he goes, Yeah, what the hell? So we had to rebuild the emitters because that that was not I I that was my fault. Those are the the big tubes, the three tubes. Yeah the big the the W What did you build instead? They're hollow on the inside. Yes. I didn't think they were hollow. Oh I thought they were full. Okay. Okay. I thought they were like a solid And he's like, What is that? I said He goes no. Because they're just plates on the On the perimeter like on the on uh on the surface, but but it's hollow inside. And that there is You don't see it in the film but Imagine a four uh two. Or foot. Trash can. Pipe it's the one of the wave guides that goes into it because it allows it to swivel and all that. Mm-hmm. But What I found really interesting Is And he had even mentioned it in the past, and I and I I remember he said that wave guide goes into the emitter and protrudes about I don't know, about a foot into the emitter. And I remember thinking, why, why would it do that? And it makes perfect sense. Why? Because When the I don't have anything that's cylindrical here, but If imagine a cylinder. Is is suspended by a pipe. On the On the ceiling of the bottom level. And the cylinder Can swivel at a ninety degree. Yeah. The Top of the craft. And this is here, and there's like a pipe holding it. As soon as it swivels The pipe's lock not long enough. For it to swivel at ninety degrees, it's gonna hit the top. Right. It needs to extend down and swim. Ah. And that Piece inside is designed For it to do that. That's an important detail. It's an important detail. But he never said that did that, he said that's what I saw. Right. You had to work that we had to make that and that made sense to us. And we went, Oh my God, look at that. It makes sense because you need that extra Did he pre plan you know, some people like he's still he's still a fraud. plan that is that like some is that an Easter egg you put in there for us to figure out like I I it never felt like that. Any times I spoke to him, this was really something that caught my attention too. I was like Yeah, that that that That's not That's not him making that up. He saw that and that's how I built it. I think that even supports the story more because you're doing the structural engineering exactly those dots. Exactly. And then he sees that and goes, yeah, that's how it works. Yeah, because it would It would be that. It makes perfect sense. Of course. You know? So I was like, Okay, where that that's another that's something that I thought was really interesting. Anyway. And so Got to a point. Where the craft was built and now the Entrance to the craft, the hatch. You see it in the film, right? You see there's a a it lips to the bottom. Yes. It's like an o right? Okay. That. was a feat. Why because we didn't understand it like we weren't getting it perfectly for a while in the geometry of the craft. And it took it took a few tries until he said that's it. So this is a three Level craft. There's a bottom level. And that's the emitters. Three emitters underneath. Correct. Then there's three chairs. And then there's an upper level that he never saw. That he never saw. Speculate? What do you think was up there? The part where you see Black look like he says they look like port holes. Right. But they're not. But they're not. They're clearly not. Something for navigation. He says they w they were uh vanta black. Called them Vanta Black. I don't know if you're familiar with Vanta Black. Vanta Black is the blackest of blacks. Oh yes, I've heard of that. Okay. It's so black it's actually weird to look at it. Exactly. He says they they were they look like Vanta Black. They didn't look like they were a surface. They look like they were an infinity hole. Mm. Okay. So we have to make that. In in Blender you can because you just remove all specularity. You know, you remove all the and you could do that. But it looks fake. If you do that in Blender. It looks fake, which is one of the things that I'm kind of not happy with with my craft in Blender is Yeah. It's not reflecting anything, but I'm not appreciating it as much as I I'm crazy when it comes to detail. I'm like, I don't think the real thing looks like that. But That's as far as we could do it. And he said He s he thinks it's perfect, then I'm like, it could be better. But anyway. So Um And in regards to that, he says They believed that it had something to do with the navigation or some type of Censor. lets the the craft or whoever in the craft know where it is. So it's it's basically reading And there's six of them. And it's reading where it's at. That's what he thought it it it it was. They they they talked about it with Barry, his his lab partner, but he says I don't know. I I never accessed it. I don't know what was up there. So he's very, very Cautio to not speculate too much. That's what I love about Bob and his story, and I'm asked all the time who I think are the most credible. whistleblower is and it's always Bob Lazar because he's not afraid to say, I don't know, I didn't work on I don't know. And he and a lot of times he would say, I don't know. I mean there's there's so many questions we had and he goes, I don't know. Even even the the metal. He's like you know, that's material science. I don't absolutely felt or look like this, but I don't know. He we had a lot of qu we s we spoke about the metal a lot and uh it it had a lot of properties that were Clearly. giving us the impression that it's metal. Mm-hmm. But he said Again, Luigi, he says it could have been ceramic. He goes, I don't know, but it felt metallic to me. The part where the archway superstructure is uh hollow. Yeah. That's a tough one to do in ceramic because ceramic is a very strong material. You don't feel hollow on ceramic. That's right. So that to me gives me more Credibil uh um belief that it's metal or a metal type of material. But it it's also intelligent, in my opinion. The craft? The material. The material's intelligence. Because We didn't We're gonna be doing so In our film, we had to abbreviate things. quite a bit to make it digestible for the audience. There's a lot of information that never made it in the film. And we are going to be releasing Probably an hour and twenty or an hour thirty minute documentary. Mini doc of ours. Only on the craft. That's gonna be successful as well, 'cause we there are a lot of us that wanna know about Was it layered? Was it w were there wave guides? We have a lot of data that w didn't make it in the film. on the sport model and I'm my one of my uh Things I wanna do is make that It's a it's gonna be a mi we're gonna call it a mini dog if you if you will, but it's just about the craft. Yes. And it allows us also creatively To show it however we want and not perspective of the story of Bab Lazar. So if I have to talk to you about the material of the craft. I'm now creative. I have liberty to show it to you how ever I want, outside, indoors, outdoors. So that's gives me the opportunity to really explain what it is that we worked on for for uh for that long. In the center of the floor. First of all, the reactor sits in the middle. of the of the floor o of the craft. There's an indentation, it fits perfectly there. There's this waveguide pipe. That is three inches in diameter. It's not very it's not very thick. tapers, you know, it kind of opens up like that because it applies perfectly on top of the reactor. It's so low tech looking. It it really is. But it's like it looks like a trumpet. Exactly. Exactly. It looks like a trumpet and you pull pull it down. Now what's really Interesting. And this is part of the stuff that we talked about with Bob is When they 'cause it goes up and down. Okay, you can remove it off the reactor and you can apply it on the reactor. And the reactor is a power source. So this thing is basically channeling whatever the power source Throughout. the uh the craft, which I believe the craft being a gigantic cavity. Hollow superstructure. And it propagates this power gravity field or whatever other field it is within the the sh It tracks with a lot of Lot of witnesses. In fact. Bob is is a in in agreement with me. I was talking to him the other day while we were driving the car. I said I am convinced at a hundred percent. that the archway superstructure was also down in the lower level. It's not something he saw, but he says, I don't remember it because it was so dark. Right. I didn't see it. He goes, I wasn't paying attention to it because I was trying to figure out what those emitters were. І се згри. Макс но. Craft superstructure is only on one side and not Connected like this. to the other side on the bottom. That's my personal opinion. I built the thing. So it always feels to me like It had to have had it on the bottom. You're probably right. It's just logical sense to me. So but he says, I agree. I just don't remember seeing it. And his job was to what, try to replicate the propulsion technology of those emitters? Replicate it with earth materials and Second direct the the first directive. Excuse me, to replicate the uh propulsion system with earth materials and the second directive was to disable it. How to disable it from a distance. Right. That's important to it's important. So they had to that was those are primary directives. And essentially, you know, when When you think about This also this material. As he pulls up the the wave guide. It's not telescopic like a normal antenna that we we do. We go like this and and it goes in it, you know the the base part is thicker and the you know it gets inside its goes inside it's not like that at all. He goes, You pull it up. And it doesn't make any sound. It's not like you hear sh It's completely silent. Pull it up and it just becomes shorter. blends into the ceiling. It doesn't go through the roof or anything. No. It there's no hole where you see it go in. It's just blended into the ceiling. The main floor. The s the bottom is tapered so it goes on top of the reactor. Upper I I remember asking him, I go, Do I have a do I leave a hole? He goes, No, no, no. It was blended It was all one piece. No seam or No seam. So he goes, We would pull it up and we didn't know where it was going. And that can't work. That's exactly that's exactly why that's an important feature. Yeah because now what and I want I wanted to put it in the film, but I thought if I do that. I'm gonna need a very long segment here to explain this. Yes. And it's a kind of a for For the layman, for people watching this for to digest. That's a lot of technical stuff that I would have to get into. I'll cover that in in the sport model version of the doc because I want to cover it. But clearly, what is that? Right. What's happening there. He says even when you pull it down Where's the material coming from? Because it is getting longer. But I can't tell where it's coming from. So he says And and I asked him, if you were to bring it down and not apply it on the reactor and push you know He said, Oh, it wouldn't move. It wouldn't move. It wouldn't move. Now think about that. You know, if we have something that is Only three inches in diameter and hollow. Hollow. And I pull that down. I don't know, four feet? During Memorial Day at Lowe's, shop household must-haves for less. Save $80 on a Charbroil Performance Series 4-burner grill to chef up something special. Plus, get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep things fresh. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Lowe's. We help, you save. Valet to 527. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for details. Visit your nearby Lowe's on U.S. Highway 431 South in Gunnisville. Can't get it to move. That's something really strong. Even if it's titanium, you're gonna get a little bit of Then move. I found that really interesting. Yes. You know what I mean? So those are little technical aspects of things that I found to be Very interest I have to build 'em. Obviously you're not build them you're not feeling the the the physics of that, but it's something that I I took into consideration as I was building this thing. The only thing I I I don't I don't have is the upper level. I mean I the outside I have, but I don't have the interior. So I don't know. I don't know how that works. Yeah. So you're at Bob's, um going through all your hundred and eighty seven questions. Yeah. And then what happens from there. Oh, you're you're designing the box, the hanger. So we got w so we finally get the the box, the hanger. I actually just for fun, what I had this was a It was just an idea I had on a weekend. I said, Okay, here's the box. I go, people are gonna wanna have more. I go, what I cannot what I could include in the box. Is a f a cardboard fold out. is the the hallway of the base. I could I could just do that for people who are a little bit more fanatical. I could do the so let me make the hallway. So that that that talk about scope creep. Right. Wow. So I essentially said, All right, Bob. How about we build the whole thing? Whole S four. The whole S four because that one day I just said okay, that's it. Why don't we do in in in uh It was gonna start an Unreal Engine. And he says, Are you sure you want to do that? He goes, What are you gonna do with it? I said, I don't know yet. I don't know yet. But I know I want to do it. And he goes, That's gonna cost. I know, I know. I said I know. I I I knew. But I I had to do it. Because You know, historically Let's say in this timeline of our lives. Wild Lazar is getting older. And he's already in process of helping us design the interior of the hangar and If I don't do this now. When is this even gonna happen? It would never happen. It would never have happen. No. So I said And Bob said what? Sure you want to do that. Yeah, if I invest 'cause my money I said I'll do it. If you but But on one condition You You st give it a stamp of approval. You have to help He says Oh, I'll do it. He goes, You guys are doing gr great job. I'll do it. And I I said, Great. Uh we're we're doing it. called everybody, had a meeting, and said, Okay, guys, we're we're building the whole thing. And so it was like they were like, What? You know? And I said, Yeah, yeah. So See Bob. I went with my co director uh Christopher Matteau got so much information. He's really talented. He's very talented. He's he's he's not just talented. I think he's like a Michael Jordan of this. This guy is Very good. Did he help you with the shot selection and photography? Oh yeah. I mean, he and I were your film is gorgeous. Thank you, I appreciate that. And that's uh and a lot of that is also due to Chris Matto. I mean Christopher Matto is Without a doubt. He and I were almost attached to the hip. for about a year in front of a computer. We both gained weight at the same time staring at screens because that's exactly what it was. And you know, running to computers, building computers to render and all that stuff. I mean, those insane Sleeping at the studio, making sure it wouldn't crash if they crashed. You know, getting it back to, you know, where did it crash, what frame, what what messed up, why did it do that, you know? I feel this pain. Yeah. So anyway, long story is we we started we we we got to the Unreal part, but then we immediately dropped Unreal Engine. Because Unreal for Folks is a 3D game engine. Game engine. Absolutely. Look, it's great for video games. It's not made for what we were doing. No. It's just not made forward. No. It it it just it cannot do. What it's Being advertised. Certainly not at four point seven. I would even at five. Even at five and with nanite. Couldn't even at five w oh even at oh even with nan Nanite was giving us so many errors. Yeah. Okay. I know. So many errors that we were going bananas going, Okay, this is just a waste of I I spent a lot I lost a lot of money because of unrealing. They're great. They do great video games. Good for them, but Blender was definitely the way to go. And when we transferred everything over to Blender. Things first of all started looking better much faster. Quality went. Through the roof. And And Blender was evolving. Yes. It always is. Yeah. And so There's a lot of stuff we did our our Our version of Blender at our studio. Is it's like when you meet a guy who has like a Toyota Supra, but he has a one version, he has one of one. He modified it his way. Our blender is Fully modified. It must be as uh as a three D artist myself, there are some shots where I went How did he build a set for the oh, he this is VFX. This looks very real. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And the For for you that so because you understand this. It's not just what it looks like. It's what you can render. That's right. Right? Yeah. 'Cause you can make anything look beautiful. Now render it. Make that happen. All the different lights you needed. Okay. Yeah. There's a lot of computing power. And so there's a lot of the under the hood technical stuff that has to happen. Order for the render first of all to happen and not crash. And secondly In a timely manner. Where you can actually get your render out. Because you have a hundred other renders to y you know, and you you have X amount of computers. So you need this to happen. You can't just go like, Oh yeah, it it'll take four days. Well, hold on. For how many seconds? You know what I mean? So Technical aspect. Of what was That Will forever be What? I'll never forget that. Ever. I mean I I we were we were Not sleeping to make that happen. I believe it's while we're talking technical, there was something that came up. Light that wouldn't bounce. So you spend a year trying the way light behaves on the craft. Right. But When you are designing the asset, you you create the material. Absolutely. Specularity. Right. Normal math. Everything. Absolutely. So did you a I mean why was the light not working if you can control it? Well it was work it was working. Oh it it's the light is working. It's It's not Uh it wasn't A Defect nothing was defective. It was the way the interior of the craft is made. So now you're you're in the main floor and always remember It's very low. It's you know, it's a disc, right? So it's got this You can only stand kind of in the m in a small section in the middle. And then after that you gotta start crouching down and and and walking or crawling, whatever. If you if you're in the actual space, which we went with VR eventually, but Which is very cool and I can't wait for the world to see that. But The way the materials made we used Pa to make it B you know. Fast to explain. Unpolished stainless steel. There's a little bit of grit to it, a little bit of dust to it, because it gives it, you know, that that real look and all that. You put any light in there. Because you know you could put any lights. Yeah. Blender. You could have a billion versions of lights. Okay. Yeah, we could put any lights. It's beautiful. It's great. All right. Okay. It's lit. Okay, but that's not how it was. You know, because it's it it it you're inside the craft. That's not how they were lighting it. You can light it. You can put fake lights in there and you light the thing. Uh I can make it super beautifully lit. That's not how he saw it. And Bob's saying that 'Cause there were what there were a couple of industrial lights in there. Was uh Industrial tripod lights, two of them. One behind The amplifier that's behind the middle seat. And one on the left of the amplifier to the left of the of the middle seat. Both of them are there. They're they're Their rod is low because they're It's not a high ceiling. Right. So they're lower. They're not like pushed up. You you could there's a telescopy thing. And they're the the light heads are pointed up. And there's four halogen lights. But you can replicate that right down to the But the light wasn't matching. So you you get that down to the bulb, to the luminosity, to the all all that stuff, right? Mm-hmm. Turn them on. And and it gives you you you match them. You go online, you look at these halogen lights, you match the the setting in Blender. You could do that. Sure. So you put them on. Turn 'em on. They're on. They're a hundred percent. Both of them are on. So you have eight lights. Yep. Can't see anything. It's like you could see reflecting brightly where it's at, right? But it's not transmitting light. It it's not lighting the room. And I'm like, it's in you know, you have to consider fifty two and a half feet it's kinda big anyway. But you would think It should be throwing light everywhere. It doesn't. And Bob says no, it was dark. Darker than this. He kept saying it was very dark in there. And I And and and I kept saying, Okay, but what what could she do? Well is it he always repeated, it's very dark in there. It's it it's hard to see. And I'm like An industrialized Like how is this not Right. So when they're on, I r I'll never forget, we had our camera in there. We we used Black Magic six K cameras to film most of the time. So we brought the camera in. Put the settings on how we would put our settings. And I would tell Chris, are are we in the camera? Yeah. Turn on lights. They're on. I can't see shit. And he's like, I know. I I I the the lights are on. I'm like, Okay, well There's no way. So the amount of times that we were like, there's gotta be a toggle that we didn't like, we're missing something. Something's not happening here. So we would turn off those lights, bring in other lights. Okay, we could see everything. Okay. Well that's weird. We would What we did. This actually We did this for a while. I never explained this, I can explain it 'cause you can appreciate it. We took out the halogen and we put uh other lights in there. Like a you could put box lights. So we took four bo little box lights, placed them there, point them up, blast them. Even those weren't powerful enough. And I'm like, what the hell is up with this thing? But if you Take the lights. Go in a different angle. Blast them, well, it'll light the scene. There are shots in our film where we did obviously create cinematic lighting shots. You don't s you don't know it. We know it, but it wasn't the natural light. You cannot see properly in that craft. If you only have the eight halogen lights pointed up, which ref which is exactly what Bob Lazar said, it was very dark in there. And if we Think of that. We're gonna think of Here's a man who's gonna try to Let's say that let's say let's assume He's lying. Okay. He's making it up. Okay. He's making this up. Fine. He's telling us. That there are two industrial tripods with four bright Halogen lights in there. Why would his brain, as a liar, think that's not enough? Think about that logically. It's too it's a weird detail. It's it's it's too Strange. That he knew. that it would be dark in there. Because you have to build the thing. That's it. Is that material just drinking in the light? It really absorbed. I will gladly send you the c the craft. Okay. If you want it. Of course. Just don't share it, but I'll send you the file. Pla play around with it. Do it yourself. Cause 'cause when you said that, I'm like, nah, man, that's not how materials work. Yeah. But play around with it yourself. I bel I believe go in there, turn them on. And you'll be like Oh shit. It's it's it's dark in there. You're gonna go like Bring a camera in there. Try to film something. We're gonna do it. You know what I mean? So so so now in the store you're starting to build all of that for. Is it still a product at this point? Oh yeah. So Yeah. So We' at a certain point We were like it would be so cool if Bob narrated this or Bob narrated that. If what if Bob narrated you know and we're narrate a product. Well th that's again, I didn't know where this was going. I I kind of I literally thought, I'm I'm Spending a fortune here building this thing. I don't really know what I'm gonna do with it. What about your team? Are they like They were just excited they were just excited that I was giving them a green light. Let's do it. They were just like, This is cool. Like we're 'cause I was just giving them Oh. Go With the best we could do. And they're like, Okay. Right. And uh eventually Bob Lazar started seeing some stuff. I didn't he would always wanted to see final scenes. I never showed him anything that was really but I would give him snippets and he was like, Oh my God. Why did you withhold that? That's an important detail. Because I wanted it to be finished. In some cases. I wanted it I wanted certain things to be complete for him to see them. There was a lot of times that they weren't complete. Like for instance the ceiling of the of the of the hallway was not complete. And it would It would Not look good. Kind of like I was I was like I would show him things that were I needed him to correct me on, but I knew that the ceiling was not complete properly and I'm like, I don't want to show him with this crappy ceiling. I gotta finish that. I had to put pipes in there. So there were certain things that I he was like, show me. I'm like, not yet. I wanna Show it to you when it's done. When things were getting Let's say eighty five percent done, that's when I started showing. Did you go back to your uh David Jacobs training at all and think I d I were you worried about implanting details? Absolutely. I 'cause this is a great way to do it. Absolutely. I what was what was really important though Is that he corrected himself. In a couple of things when we brought him in initially in the hangar and in the lab. The only places where he said Oh yeah, there was that. Was in the hangar in the lab. He was there a lot. In in the lab. He had forgotten to mention that there was a door that led right into the excuse me, that read that led right into the hangar. Ah, okay. It w it was never mentioned, so I put a I put a cabinet there. And he goes, There was no cabinet there. And I said, Well, okay, I'll just remove the cabinet. And he goes, No, there was a door there. And I said, What do you mean there was a door there? He goes, Isn't that Going right into the hanger? And I said, Yeah. He goes, Yeah, there was a door there. That's really interesting because when you're setting up the three D environment, it starts to fall into place. Exactly. Exactly. So even the desks at a certain point, yet he and Barry have two desks pointed at each other. I put them in the wrong place. First thing he did is the desks are No, the desks are over there. The he immediately pointed the desks were not there, they were over there. Like he pointed at right away. And I'm like, oh okay. That m and that made more sense. Sure. Okay. He goes, Yeah, and the electrical panel was on the left there. Okay. You know immediately when like boom. I put at a certain point I had a sink in there. He looked at it, he goes Okay, you could leave that one. I said, Why? He goes it wasn't exactly like that. That's fine. You know, like kind of and I'm like, But what did it look like? Right. You know? He's like, No, I w I some stuff he didn't even want to tell me because he knew I'm insane. So he's like, You're gonna waste another three weeks on just a sink. It's not important. You know what I mean? So I'm like, Okay So we basically Got him to s to to correct us on that door and in the hangar. large adjacent doors that separate the hangars have normal size doors in them. 'Cause when the the big uh uh adjacent doors are closed, you can go in the adjacent hangar just through a normal door In the big door. And There was a a time I mentioned this recently. Bob Lazar was on stage with Georgia Knapp in Arizona. Bob had drawn on a whiteboard these little doors, and people were saying, He's full of shit. There's no way he could have seen and the other hangers without those doors. And I remember going like They're kind of right. There's no way to have seen all the way down just through these little doors. True. It it they they were right. That was a good point. I didn't I didn't I didn't have an answer for it, so I'm like, I wonder. that's all about. Anyway, as soon as he saw the door, he goes, No, there's little doors in those doors. We built the door. He goes, but there's a door there. Oh. They there's a door in the door. And and we we validated it. We actually also, by the way, had consultants that helped us that actually worked at area fifty one. in hangers. By the way. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There were people that consulted with us and said, Oh, you got it. That that's how it was. They even showed us how the X beams were in the hangers, and they said, that's exactly it. Were these special projects guys or Only one one was a Not That UFO not UFO stuff, but uh aerospace engineers that worked out there. 'Cause they did make planes there too. Yeah. They they and they confirmed, yeah, that's what's they they helped us with the the floor grill where the water goes in. They t they we have a lot of experts that Because Bob oh by the way. When it came to Bob, where was the grill on the ground? He goes He goes. I wasn't looking for that. Right. I mean, that makes sense too. So I needed a consultant to help me, you know, 'cause I asked him, I said, Do you think the beams were like that? He goes Probably. He goes, I wasn't paying attention to the beams. Absolutely. Now S four is built inside of a hill. Are you are you building the landscapes as well? Oh we've built the whole landscape. Absolutely. When we have we have a project. Oh my God. It's huge it is a huge project. Is this a film yet? Or you're still building stuff. We were half a film, not even a half a film, we are quarter of a film. Uh when we completed The Papus Lake are uh Geometry. But we hadn't done the Papus Mountain Range. So But you decided we're gonna make a movie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I had decided at that point. Well, that's when I spoke to Bob Lazar and I said, Bob How about we turn this into a documentary? about what happened to you at S four. What would make you think of that? Because when we would bring the cameras inside the scene. It was just too perfect. It looked too good. And I thought My God. I think I could bring people back here. You know, it it started to really dawn on me like this is really good. And I'm like But it wouldn't be of any use to people. If I explain it. That's I kept saying, you know, who who's gonna wanna listen to me? Oh, you know, I made it like this and nobody cares about me. I said Bob explains his story. I think that's gonna ha it's gonna go a long way. In fact In fact, I said this is no longer in my opinion The new WeGove pill is now available through Weight Watchers. Powerful GLP1 results in a simple pill at the lowest price available. And with Weight Watchers, you can get doctor support and personalized nutrition programs. See if you qualify at WeightWatchers.com. Add not reviewed or approved by Novo Nordisc. Created for entertainment. This is almost created as a historical document. Because if I have the guy who saw it. And he's correcting me. And we have a visual historical document. That's actually interesting. Because it's a place we can't go to. What happens if one day Bob Lazar gets debunked? What what does that mean for h your historical document? I find that to be yeah, we so we many times we said that to each other, you know, what if all this turns out not to be true? You know, and we're looking at each other and we go It'll be one hell of a sci fi thing though. You know, 'cause we we we basically laugh and and say I don't think it's it's gonna get debunked, but if if ever it does Which I doubt. It's still a cool project. from somebody's memory or story. And made sense. A hundred percent. Right. Um I don't think it is. I really don't, but Bob says it all the time. He goes, You know what? He goes, Whether people believe my story or not, your film is so beautiful. He says that to me. He says it's so beautiful to watch. that it's it's it's a it's a fun thing to look at. It really is. So I said, at least I've accomplished part of the the the task. I clearly don't want it to just be that. I want it to People to get a Uh I I wanted Part of my my my hope was If there are so many people out there who really don't believe this story. And have a lot of arguments, which I understand. I I I I read all of them. I read all of them. In fact, after my film came out. Boy that I read a lot of them. Oh, I bet. Okay. I will say a lot of them Forget the accusations of Bob Lazar having married a woman that Before he even went to Los Alamos They're talking about stuff that happened to him a decade before he even worked at Los Alamos like, Okay, whatever. You should look into my life. I was a real Not job when I was younger. So it's like this If we're gonna look at this story. We need to have It's like a historical piece. This is a this is a An opportunity. To look at the data and say instead of attacking points that are wrong, that your starting point is wrong You're actually start your starting point is wrong. This is at least accurate. You don't believe it, fine, but that's start from here. Start here. Totally agree. Big shout out to Veronica, who's my sister, who has been A li a a a godsend because She handled everything while we were making this film. So she was she's like the invisible force behind us that's handling everything, making sure everybody's paid and things are happening okay. And when I f when Jean sent us the map. And we found all that. She just quietly said, No, this is there's gotta be more to this. There's there's no way they hit a a road. And that there's no other evidence to it. So she found that map, and that is in in in my opinion. The nineteen forty one map is undeniably Evidence that there's something there. Yes. It's from the government. It's not from a picture. It's from the government. It's there. It's there. Um, she also found the Ed Teller video as well. Sh uh Vanessa did. Oh, Vanessa did. Yeah, Vanessa did. So Vanessa on my team She she was handling the the you know, vetting the archival footage that we use. Is it a are we allowed? Is it, you know, copyrighted? Or we there's a lot of stuff that we never even put in the film that we spent months and vetting and all that stuff. And there was suddenly Contacted The University of California Yeah. Uh anyway, and uh They had the Eteller tape. From nineteen eighty two, when he was at Los Alamos. Mm-hmm. And she contacted them saying, Is that the actual tape? And they contact sent a picture of the tape and a picture of a file folder that was on the same shelf on this metal shelf in the archives. And they said it's a U Matic tape and it has not played since that day. It's been sitting there. Since nineteen eighty two, June twenty eighth. July uh July twenty eighth, I think or June twenty, I can't remember now. Uh nineteen uh eighty two. Or like you're kidding. And we said, are we allowed to They said we could digitize it for you. There's a cost to doing that, it's a couple hundred dollars. I I immediately said, Send them the money. Like I go, go. Yes. And so she says, Okay And she goes, If you pay an extra hundred dollars, they'll do it faster. Pay an extra hundred like just go. And and uh they and I said, Ask them if we could use it, right? And they came back and they said Good news, it's public domain. You're allowed to use it, you know, just credit us. And I said absolutely. I couldn't wait to see it. So they digitized it, sent it to us, and they digitized pictures of the file folder, and it's Edward Teller's personal notes and personal agenda of those days. And I have all that. And it's like him going going to at Los Alamos National Labs then he he was flying oh to somewhere else to have another conference. And it's at Deller. I watched the whole thing. I mean it's it's a lot about the weapons and bombs and all that, but it's extremely interesting. It's it's available. It's gonna be available on our We Are Not Alone channel, we are not alone dot com channel. The whole uh thing is gonna be put out there because it's cool. It's just and and in that crowd. They never had a camera. Pointed at the crowd. The camera was from behind. So you're only seeing a portion of the crowd and Ed Teller on the on the There's two ca there's actually two cameras. There wasn't a third camera. Pointed the other way. It would have been we would have seen Bal Lazar. Yeah. Which is a really cool thing. For sure he was there. Um You mentioned something Almost in passing, I don't think anyone followed up on it. You received legal threats during this process? What w from who? Bank. From your bank. Oh yeah. I had pro we we had a lot of problems over time. Uh things that were very weird. Not gonna get in all of them 'cause you know they're gonna I'm still We put a lot of our money into it. I put I put uh a lot of money in seven figures to make this thing happen. Uh it's uh why anyone banks in Canada is beyond me. Uh, I can tell you that It's a very toxic and very I uh uh I would almost say abusive system in c in Canada. And uh the way that we were um attacked. By our bank. was extremely aggressive and unwarranted. How did they m they made it look like they had no idea we were making a film on Bob Lazar. And when they were absolutely aware that we were making a film on Bob Lazar because in Quebec, in the province of Quebec where I where we live and where our Studio is. If you produce Uh a VR experience. Which we did. simultaneously produce 'cause the the the the environment is And you're making that publicly available. It's gonna be available later this year. Absolutely. It's gonna be a different product and you're gonna be able to go and visit S four. If you do that, you are eligible to receive tax credits. for the work that you're the people that you have and all that, which is a great in Quebec, by the way. And that's why a lot of video game companies based in Quebec. Because of the the fiscal perks. So I didn't even know that. And I thought this is great, you know? But I had to get accredited first by the government. And in order for me to get accredited, I need to get audited. Oh. So I got audited and I passed. Okay. And I was like, this is great. And they said, You've got it. You have your attestation as they say, which is like like a document that says you are now accredited by the government. to receive if you have if you're if you're eligible for credits, then you you have you're eleg you can get them. The bank helped so the bank got involved. They were so impressed with what we were doing. that they brought a committee to the office, the VP of the of the bank was there. W I I got a Goosebums company in Montreal doing this, Area fifty one, this is incredible. Whatever, we're gonna help you out. So they they helped us through and got us a consulting firm to help us facilitate The credits. Which was great. I said I don't have time to do it anyway. And the bank was going to One the credits because when you get approved and the government says, Okay, we'll send you two hundred fifty, three hundred thousand dollars, whatever it is, they don't send to you right away. Eighteen months. Sure. Right. It's not like, oh great, I'm gonna get the money right away. The bank knows this and it's an opportunity for them. Because the g banks say, We'll we'll front you the money and we'll charge you interest and when you get it, it's guaranteed money to us, you pay us the money. So I thought, all right, I'll I'll go ahead. Why not? I mean it's it's it's a lot of my I was ill I was eligible for a couple of hundred thousand dollars. I'm like Go ahead. Send it to me. The last day that We had it was it was Constant communication. I mean this was the correspondence with these guys was constant. All of a sudden, they send me uh An email, you gotta send us the last document. I did. Sent it. Beautiful. And they kept saying, Come on, Luigi, hurry up. We want to release the funds. I said, Great. Send them the thing. Radio silence. I've never had a problem in my life. With banks. This all of a sudden happens. They call and they say, I I I'm not getting any answers, so all of a sudden I go Let me call. Put 'em on put the girl on speaker. So everybody by the way, our studio is all open. We don't have separate rooms, so everybody hears everything. So I decided been years. I'm like our business is completely transparent. This is how it works. You figure you'll know what's going on here. And yeah, I make more money than you. I tell everybody. Like that's just the way it is. Anyway. The the call I she answers the call and she's and she's stuttering. Uh uh I can't help you anymore, I'm sorry. This is someone you had a relationship with? We were on the phone almost every day. Mm so anyway, long story short, I got a call that they were gonna allocate two new people to our account, right? They allocate two new people to our account. We're gonna ask you and your mom to come on a Zoom call. My mother's owner of a company with me. It's family business. So she has absolutely no idea what we do. She she's just she's just mom. Okay, she's been with me and my sister, like, you know, she's helped out all the time. But if we if my sister and I ask her to come in the office and help out, she's gonna go, like, I what do you want me to do? File? I could file stuff for you, but other than that, you know I know a lot of Italian businesses with a silent part. I get it. I get it. So it's my so I said, Okay, my mom are fine. We get a on this call. And it's two attorneys for the bank. Oh no. And they say, um Tell us about your uh your uh project with these flying with these UFOs. I said, Well you guys know about it. What do you want me to tell? Well tell us about that. I said. You guys know about it. Like uh what do you want me to tell? It's a long story. We've been we've been talking to you guys for over a year. Wha what what part do you want me to tell you? Like you're you're that's a pretty broad question. I thought we were getting into specifics. So Um We had utilized a portion of our line of credit. Okay, which was not even that much. Mm-hmm. operating 'cause we're about to launch the film. And 'cause you're using all your own money and all our own money. And it's depleting. Of course. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, by the way, to the uh to those who would call me a grifter. Uh That's a really bad way of grifting. Right. It's going broke. Yeah, it's going broke. That's a bad grifting move. Okay so Uh I was in a position I I said. You guys know we're using I said we we've been using the line of credit because of this and but they knew they kept telling us we want to give you more. That's why with these credits from the government, we can give you more. I thought, great. She's letting you know that I'm not gonna name the bank, but um They were royal pain in the asses. Uh okay. I got it. Um That that bank said we are no longer supporting you. And unless you pay us back what you owe us, we're gonna shut you down. So line of credit done? Oh yeah. Payback. You know, so And then I got a paper. Uh a court order. We had to get the posed in court. A whole thing about about what is this UFO project it kept calling it le project of knee, UFO project. I found to be very suspicious, 'cause I'm like I have other clients. I it was very specific to this. I have a I I ha I deal with the Montreal Transit Commission. I I have other clients. I gover government clients. Well, one of them is a government code. Absolutely. It's government. And your business is thirty years old? Uh my no. We're f uh Close fifteen. Okay. I've been twenty five years, but this company is close to fifteen. So I've I've been here. Okay. And I mean I'm completely clean. I got audited. So they say Side note, by the way, when this happens. Just a little side note, I'm gonna get back to what happened on the on the court document. I'm in trouble here. I don't know what the fuck is going on. And he I s I kid you not, he said, What did you do? And I said, What do you mean, what did I do? I didn't do anything. What are you talking about? He says Luigi, you know you're Italian. Oh, come on, I swear to you. I swear to you. He says, you know, did you send money to somebody I said, dude, if you say that again, we don't have a relationship. I said, that is such a I said, that really sucks that you said that because why? 'Cause I'm Italian, I'm I'm what, I'm part of some criminal activity or something? Well I mean my family has a history but I mean but that's not a that's not no we're not we're not criminals. So it's like what are you talking about? So I actually had to he says because they usually would never do that Unless you did something really bad. And I said, I didn't. So that was a big deal. Yes. Finally. He says all right, fine, send me whatever. They Uh sent me a quarter that in the court request. I it's in French. I'll show it to you later. One of the main things they wanted from us is All communications between Motivo, my company, and Bob Lazar. No, no. Yeah. And that's when he that's when he said All right, now I'm starting to suspect to I m now he goes I find this suspicious. He says because they did not request Anything. related to your other clients, your the projects that are going on with Motivo. You guys have other big we we make money with a lot of other people. Why only Bob Lazar. Now. To all the naysayers out there, this actually happened. Okay. Why would this happen? And the reality is I didn't want to bring it up. I'm bringing it up Lightly, but The reality is they were part of it for the longest time. really getting all my information because they want to help me. Oh, do you think that maybe that was just I don't know. they certainly made a good show out of it. Yeah. Because they sent a committee to my office. My team freaked out, by the way. Everybody was like, what the There's nothing controversial about your film. Bob has been telling his story for thirty, four years. Why is this An attacker now. cause problems even internally with my team at a certain point because of like, what did you do? Obviously. I'm like looking at them going, Guys, I swear I didn't do anything wrong. Cause they're like, Why are we getting attacked like this? I said I do not know it was until everybody saw. They all went like out, this is really weird. Obviously they're worried about their jobs or whatever. 'Cause I have to pay everybody. I mean the I have a responsibility a lot of the reasons why you know this was a stress thing for me. I care about the people that work with me. I really do. And I and it hurts me. That I hurt them. I put my sister My sister works with me. She was like, What's going on? You know, like she's got a little girl, she's like my little niece and Everybody's relying on us being successful. So that was a huge thing that I was feeling because I'm like, Why is this happening? I never had that happen to me in my life. Did you give them the correspondence? Uh let's just say that I made I made sure that I told I I made sure to tell them That yes, the walls in the lab were off white and not white. Tiles were probably purchased. in a commercial store and not made In some Foreign land. That the equipment looked new and not old. Things that were completely useless. Because what the hell what what the hell are you talking about? That's all Bob and I talked about is building S four. Right. So what what the fuck what do you want? You know, what is that what is that gonna change? In the whole So I told them yeah. Here's here's what we talked about. I sent them our email correspondence together because 99% of my correspondence with Bob Lazar was, hey, Bob, look at this. Was it on the right or on the left? Do we put these on the right or on the left? Right. Is that is it big enough? Is it too small? What colors are the doors wood? Are they metal? What else do you mean to talk about? Did they? They did not. We lost our line of credit. You cooperated, they they they blocked our so I'm I've sent A lot of money to my Lord. So we o we owe them some money. I sent a lot of money to my lawyer. He has it in trust. They know that our film was gonna be launching soon. This was a huge risk for me financially, because if I didn't make it. I really wouldn't have made it. The fact that the s the film began to sell really well. was such a relief for everybody on my team and me. The first thing one of my best friends, Julie, said to me She says you saved your house. Did you? I did. I mean, day one four point nine out of five on Amazon, it's a hit. It's and it's gonna be huge. I we were this save your business? Yes. We uh we were number one. Most sold film in America on Amazon for four days. We ended up being number two for two days. Number three. Two days. And are still now number four in America. That's a big thing to say. When did you find out it was a hit? Who's your first time? It was Amazon who contacted my distributor and they contacted me. They said you guys are killing it. You beat Avatar and the housemaids numbers. It's a better film than those. Yeah. Who's the Who's the first one you called? To tell? Yeah, to this is a this is a triumph. Oh, who I called for I was with Bob when I found out. You were? I was with him. Any He was just like So relieved. He was he's been stressed for me for a long time. He's like, oh my God, I can't I hope you make your money back. I hope you make your money back. That's all he cared about, by the way. He he kept I I don't want anything him and Joy were like, We just want you to be okay. And I called um Call my sister. Save more on the materials you need to get the job done inside and out at Lowe's. Right now, get 10% off in-stock Treks Natural Decking. Now available in more styles. Plus, get 15% off, select custom entry, interior, and storm doors. Then we'll deliver it all straight to your job site to help keep your jobs moving. Get the brand's Pro's Trust priced right and ready when you need them. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valentin 527. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. And You fucking did it. You know, like she goes, I'm so glad. She goes, I'm so glad. I said I s I I stayed there with you throughout the whole thing. When you said you were concerned that you put your sister at risk, what did you mean by that? Financially? It's her job? You know what I mean? I I I didn't want to be responsible for that. I remember I remember I was like, Why is this happening to us? Like this not supposed to happen. Remember that We had money, but we had to operate. We had to get to the finish line. Right. So I could have paid the bank back, but I wouldn't have been able to finish what we were doing. And that was a big stress because I'm like, we're already in deep seven figures and a lot. So I'm like, we gotta. We gotta finish this. So For a lot of for a lot of uh people who were also wondering why we were delayed. There was some financial times that there were some times that the finances were delaying us because we were getting attacked and I had to protect ourselves I had to protect the company. I had People on I have to say Christopher Mateau and Veronica. Christopher Looked at me and he says fuck them. He goes, We're gonna finish this. And he would sleep at the studio. to make sure this would happen. Veronica said, I got ever don't worry about me. Don't worry about the company. Don't worry about anything. Don't even look at your emails. Finish the film. And that's what we did. How do you keep them motivated and comfortable for years and years with all this going on? Well, it was only the last year. So it was only a year the problems were became big. They they became real. And uh it's still a big risk this whole time. Gigantic risk. It's probably the biggest risk I've ever taken. And it's affected me. I went through a lot during Uh making the film I I personal problems with a past relationship of mine. I I had to treat a pre cancerous thing on my face that I apparently I was getting face can't be. Skin cancer. Uh I was I lost my friend Emily. And then this thing with the bank happened. So there was there was a lot of things that happened. And Bob Lazar. Five heart attacks. In the process of us making this film. Yeah. I I saw that on Jesse's show. And that's and I was uh and you know, he said He said, I'm I am worried. about all this 'cause of all these things happening to you. It was m worrying him that it's just have something to do With me. 'cause he didn't want this to happen. So I was like, I don't want you to get sick over this, you know? It was possibly the most Incredibly stressful time of my life. Because I wanted to make sure that I remember Say this. I said to Bob, I went to see this is One time we were in the pro we were still in in sh we were in we were in trouble. And I looked at him and he says, What are you gonna do? I said Imagine a thruster. in the cockpit of an airplane. I said, I swear to God, I will break the fucking plane. But it's not gonna I'm not gonna stop. I'm gonna bend this fucking thing until it breaks. But I'm not stopping. And he goes, That's dangerous. I said, Well I'm too much into this right now. So I'm not gonna stop. So you were surprised when the attacks came? I was a I was surprised at the at the um I I was very surprised with the bank. That was the one that surprised me the most. 'Cause it was Impossible. predicted that could happen. It was like constant communication with them. Like everything was fine. It's not like I was doing something behind the bank's back. They were part of our daily process to get the tax credits. It was like How is this even? Possible. There's no way that was Normal. No, I don't think tax credits are worth giving up privacy like this. You understand? So I was like, What the fuck is this? You guys I remember Even getting upset at the lawyer. Going like There's I have a year's correspondence with you guys. She says that doesn't even that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is right now. That's what she said to me. Do you think they want to shut you down or just get information? No, they told me they wanted to shut us down. They sent a bailiff with a with a ten day order that if we didn't pay it back, they were taking over the company. Oh no. Oh, I had to get lawyers I obvious I had to lawyer up and that there's a I The amount Of fucking problems that caused because We didn't know what was going on. So the reality is We Everything we were supposed to do. We're a hundred percent a Again. Can't repeat it enough. We got audited. Okay. I'm not the Italian guy. Running some I don't know what I'm not. Anybody could check that. You're not a cash business up. I'm not a ca we can't even accept cash anymore. It's like in Canada, cash is useless now. But It's like Everything is is clear. It's transparent. I mean, we we are a hundred percent We were we had to be so transparent. to the not only the auditors, but to the um the consulting firm Getting us the credits from the government? They had to know what we were up to, so we're like We're completely transparent here. Like you're not doing the next film in Canada, are you? I am not doing it this the way I am never using bank's money again. You're here. Okay. Ever. Good for you. Anybody listening working for a bank. Fuck you, I'm not I'm not taking your money. Yeah. Good for you. Sorry, I had to say that No no no I don't I apologize. So I You know, going through your history, you've got drone imaging company, merchandise. Oh yeah. All this other stuff. You found a lot of stuff by me. I did. What um What's the unifying theory with how you build things? You're a builder. Yeah. You make stuff. I went from I still love to make tangible things. Okay, so now that I'm in the intangible world. Because making a film Making this for For a guy who spent My whole career Making tangible products. And my biggest feat, my biggest project in my life. is an intangible product. Fine years old? was a challenge. Okay. And to learn. As I went. Hire right hire the right people. regardless of hiring the right people, I need to know what's going on. Like I need to understand what we're doing. Even Christopher Matteau goes, dude, you learn Blender. You know what I mean? And like It's not easy. No, and and here I am Working on making in tangible environments and tangible assets. Filming which is an intangible thing 'cause It's film, right? I learned so much in the last four and a half years doing this. That I'm very grateful that I that I've gotten to where I've gotten with all this. I'm so grateful to the people that I've worked with. I can't thank them enough. Amazing people who all stood by me and my and team. I'm super grateful to Bob Lazar for letting me do this. And everybody along George Knapp, Gene Huff, Mario Santa Cruz, Joy Lazar. All amazing people. I will continue making Tangible things. But I will certainly make more intangible things. I hope you do. I want to shift gears for just a couple of minutes before we close it out. Did I read correctly that you were with Bob during one of the congressional hearings? Yeah. I was with him on the first congressional hearing. David Grush? David Grush, yeah. What did he think? Uh Yeah, yeah, it was Dave Brush. Wait a second Yes, yes, yes, it was, absolutely. Uh Bob was actually invited so this is crazy. I said it a while ago. We had him plan to come to Montreal 'cause we had the green screen set up. We had a lot of green screen to do. So he knew that. I said, We have to interview you and I absolutely need you on the green screen. I can't do it without you being in Montreal. And this was in twenty twenty three, and he said I w Okay, fine, I'm gonna come and and left his wife at home to take care of all the animals and all that. Into Montreal. And we were set up And Gets to my house. big place downstairs. I have like a a a a it's almost like a private apartment. So whenever I have guests, they stay in my house and they have their own kitchen. I have everything. And I said uh Thank you so much for coming, you know? I said, You know that's gonna be the congressional hearing and he goes, I know. I was invited to go, I was supposed to go. And I said What do you mean? He goes, I already plan to come here with you. To see you. So he skipped it? I said, You didn't do the congressional hearing? So you can come and film with us. He goes, I already I already booked that with you. I wasn't gonna change that. I'm like, oh my god. I'm kinda glad he did because I don't think he belongs with those. He does he doesn't want to. He does he doesn't belong. And so I don't trust that narrative. Me neither. So me neither, by the way. So I'm I'm standing there with him in my in my I have the second. counter at the kitchen and we're talking, having coffee or something. And I said, I can't believe you did that. He goes Luigi I'm I wanna be This This is this is my story. This is what you're bringing my story to life. I thought, Oh my God, Bob, this is so cool. So we went to the office the next day. And he's Everybody's talking, and that was the day of 'Cause the day before was the day before. The the day of we're filming on a green screen. And we take a break and everybody's you know, it's got makeup on him and he's 'cause trying to Make us look better, you know? We got those things under our you know, those patches that you stick under your eyes to not have eye bags. I know 'em very well. Yeah, yeah. Bob and I were both wearing them, took a picture with that. It was funny. And And I and I said to him, I said, Did you hear what they just said? Congression hearing? And he goes no. So we we start going on the phone and And Bob goes Well I told you so. And it was I was like, I I found that weird. I go Crazy that they're saying these things. He goes, I find that crazy too. He says I said, What do you think? He goes, I don't wanna I don't want he literally said, I don't wanna be part of that I don't I don't He goes, if they wanna s they if they wanna keep looking for this, they can. He says, but I don't believe we're gonna get disclosure. I don't believe any of this stuff is gonna come out. I totally agree. When I'm asked about it, um I say I don't believe anyone from the intelligence community, from Navy intelligence any of that. I'm waiting for a technician to show up. Low level with a piece of metal. With something. And as I'm saying that I realize I'm describing what Bob did in nineteen eighty nine. Absolutely. Disclosure's not coming. I do not think disclosure like we would want it is coming. I think we have to be very ready. We have to prepare ourselves. For something that will appease a lot of people. But it will not Tell us the real truth. I say it all the time. I use a very Grotesque analogy. If you if you let me, please. Um I always say If if a guy is cheating on his wife. And he has Two mistresses. And she starts to suspect that he's cheating on her. And says, Look, man, I'm gonna tell her that you and I were at the strip club yesterday. And you gotta stick by the story with me. And then she goes, Where were you last night? And he says, All right, fine. I smelled of that because there was a stripper dancing and I I admit it. You know? And my friend's gonna vouch for me. And she'll go She might not divorce him because it's just a strip club. But she doesn't know the real truth. That's pretty good analogy. That's a limited hangout. Exactly. So I don't believe we're gonna get the whole truth. I think we're gonna get something just to appease. And I think it might Even be that good. Yeah, I I forget, maybe it was Jesse's show where you were saying just Send a helicopter over there and kick the dirt and I'm saying I'm saying, Luigi, they're not gonna do that. They're not gonna do that. They're not gonna go kick the dirt. You know, uh Congressman Burleson is is apparently gonna be going to all these sites Mm mm I I said, look, I uh Okay. I wanna see it. You know, I I What are they gonna show up You know They're gonna show 'em empty hangers. They're not gonna go out to Papus. They're not gonna go out there. You k you all you gotta do is go there. It's a th I think it's a I don't even think it's a five minute helicopter ride to Papu's like from from Groom. I think it's like twelve miles or something. It's right there. You just have to lift up down and and go. I mean if if there's some look. If there's something there, which I believe there is something there, because we could see it in the picture and we we have a map that shows there's something there. I kinda believed it until you show me that map and blew my mind. There's there is obviously something. There's something there. It's it's it's undeniable. Right. It's a hundred percent. Show me the mine then. Thank you. If it's just the mine, let's go in the mine. Yeah. And if you put hanger doors in the side of the hill. How would How would a a guy who apparently everybody's saying he's not a physicist, he's not a scientist, is Which by the way, George Knapp keeps saying he was the perfect guy for the job because he's easily discreditable. They could discredit him Discredited him so easy. How would he know that? We didn't know that. The media didn't know that. The military, a lot of people in DOD didn't know that 'cause you have to have access to go there. In nineteen eighty nine, there was no Google, there was no Yahoo, there was no Netscape. Let's go back old stuff, right? There's none of that stuff. We had to just analog we have to analog our way into life and lear things with analog stuff. How could this dude know? That at the most secret location in the world at a specific hill, there's so many hills out there. that there would be hangar doors hidden in that hill. And it's all made up. There's there's no way. There's no way. Um, on Joe's show he said um After thirty five years. Maybe I'm the one who made the mistake. What was the context of that and what would that mean? Excuse me. Um It he makes a good point, and I'll say this Big convers, I've had a lot of conversations about this. Not only with Bob, but obviously Bob and I have talked about this a lot. Not and I will say this. Uh We have to be We have to be realistic about what we're talking about here and not overly excited about the topic as a whole. If in fact the United States or any government Whatever government, whatever military branch, intelligence branch, or contract or whatever we wanna call them Whoever's in charge. We are talking about objects. that are technologically superior than our objects made by Another civilization. And that these objects are functional. They work. We don't know how But We know they're working. And th these objects allow for energy. Almost I don't wanna call it free energy, I don't like that word because it's possibly the really wrong, but Harness something from Space and time. that could be utilized as power. Mm-hmm. And that they could turn out to be vehicles. to travel with. That would Completely obliterate. The entire economic structure. of human society. In an instant. Because If it comes out. The first thing is Who's gonna tell us? Let's assume it's gonna be a person in in a in an authoritative position, a president, a prime minister. Whoever. That person who's going to say it. Is going to be Talk about a a topic that is so fundamentally attached to our origins. Because now you are talking about Another civilization. It should uh almost in in tandem be released with a religious the church or the mosque or whatever associated to this type of dis this type of disclosure. You were gonna have a lot of people. very confused in the world because a lot of of human civilization has a connection to some religion. Tim Burchett said if we release this, a lot of people are gonna be upset. So If that Happens with a religious connection. Now you have to have Who's gonna say it to us? And which of the religious groups are going to allowed to say it because if they do, that means they validated it. It has to be validated. It's not just a politician who comes up there and says, This is what I want you to say with me on camera. No, if the Pope says it, that's different. That's different. So now there has to be validation. Validation implicates more people. Mm-hmm. More people implicate security parameters that could be Breached. We have adversarial countries that are not always in line with the way we function. Clearly, something like this is happening. Their spy networks are on alert. We could say whatever we want about how beautiful America and strong it is. Well we should never underestimate adversarial countries. They have a lot of money. A lot of resources. If suddenly We trip. Just for a second. And they could take advantage of that, they will. They will. Okay. So now you have You have all these people moving around just to tell us, by the way. All this this is just to just yeah, just tell us just to tell us. There there there's nothing happening. It's just to let us know. I agree with everything you're saying. Now, once the process has been vetted and you have the Pope, let's say the Pope is involved. Could be another it could be the Pope. And a rabbi or whatever, all together. Let's all Sing Kumbaya and say it together. There's too many people involved. When They announce it. Us? We as people been so jaded. With wrong information from the government. And religious groups. And we're not gonna immediately accept it. Nope. We're gonna need validation. How is that going to happen? Who will do that? How are we gonna see Validation be accepted. By the art by by the people. And Without Some up uprising of some sort. So you are now gonna have to implicate Other steps. Other people. Validate this so that people go, Okay, this is real. Regardless of the fact that you say we deserve to know that we are not alone in the universe. But you could keep the technology secret. Well, how do you do that? You can't do that. You can't do that. It's a catch twenty two. You have to show me For me to believe you. And you also have to show me. I believe that it can be contained. Because I don't want China to have it. No, and they'd love to have it. You see where I'm going? Sure. Now Again, look at look at this is a mess. It's already a mess. Mm-hmm. In addition to that There are people probably within the programs I do believe they're still operating somehow. Those people They're not They're not uh They don't come from a uh Cloned. These are people that were born, they have families, they probably still have parents, they have kids, wives, houses, mortgages, friendships, and cousins and And things to lose. And things to lose. Now They signed up and they're good at keeping their mouth shut. But they never signed up for somebody going, All right, it's over here. over here. Here. Hey George come here. Like let me let me show George George what what have you been doing for the past 'cause you have to do something like that. for the world to believe it. Right. Y that's a tall order for the people to to just swallow. Oh, we're not alone in the universe and we have extraterrestrial or some type of non human technology? You better show me. It's the only way they have been creating this disinformation Muddy the Waters campaign for for a long time. Since nineteen forty seven at least. Absolutely. So Now we're finally here and we're not gonna believe it unless you show us all of it. Exactly. And they can't do that. They can't do that. It's a ca it's it's a trap. It's a trap. And so And as a And I think the military industrial complex is just kind of cracking their knuckles and saying We know that. It's it's it's a trap. They're like, Do you get it now? Yeah. Exactly. And so that's where Bob said, Maybe I am the asshole. Maybe this was supposed to be kept secret. Maybe I shouldn't have come forward and I I didn't realize what I was doing. That's where that came from when he said that. Right. He says, Maybe this should be kept secret because it could cause havoc. Who knows? He also said in an interview there was a there's a There's one of a one of our fans, his name is Marcello Romano. He's probably listening and I love that kid. He's got a very, very bad thing that happened to him, uh a medical malpractice thing that gave him A horrible lifelong problem that is probably Not gonna make his life he's a young kid. And and he reached out to us, says I don't think I'm gonna be here for a long time. I'd love to see the movie a ahead of time, whatever. We got to meet him. Bob Bob was so nice. This guy lives not uh two hours away from Bob. Bob said, Tell that kid that it's my birthday on Friday and I'd I'd rather be with him than with anybody else on my birthday. That kid it was his dream to me, Bob Lazar. goes out there and we have a conversation with him. And Bob opened up. It'll be on our channel. We'll eventually put that conversation out. And Bob said There is no way. To get this technology out to the world. without immediately causing a major problem. He says if they can replicate it, which is Possibly not the case, by the way. Right. They could use it, they don't know how to replicate it. So that's that's another problem. That's a chimpanzee with a machine gun. Exactly. What you're doing here is you're essentially removing all borders. If we could go anywhere, anytime, however we want, instantly. What do we care about border patrol and the the borders, the countries and and and cultures, and all of a sudden that doesn't matter. What about pandemics? If I go to Africa right now. And I go hang out, if I decide to go to Zimbabwe And go with some of the tribes out there and hang out with them for a month. And when I come back and and the border guy in Canada goes, Have you been in certain areas? Yes. Well I'm gonna get Sealed off. Yep. They're gonna make sure I don't have Ebola. They're gonna make sure I don't have why? Well it's 'cause we don't have that in Canada. Right. Right? All of a sudden that just Goes away. I could go to Zimbabwe, hang out, get dengue, go back home, give dengue to a a mosquito flies into this thing. We go out and everybody starts getting sick. What the hell Tell us that can't happen. Or just show up at the Kremlin or Langley. Bob said, You want to get all the gold in the world, go to Fort Knox, just take it and go away. Like what stops us From using this to and My friend Chris Ramsey said to me the best thing he about the government, he says if the government of w if the government of the United States invented a drop of water The first thing they do is figure out how to k how to drown you in it. It'll turn it into a weapon. Yep. Absolutely. That's the reality of it. So if we don't If we don't accept that And we wanna We wanna pretend that's not reality and we wanna live in the world where everybody says, Well, I'm ready for it. No I'm you you No, you're not you don't even know what you're talking about. We're not ready for it. We're not ready for it. I don't personally think I am. Because I mean I'm I've been so exposed to the topic for so long. Of course I would love to know. But that's a selfish thing that I'm saying. Because the hell am I really talking about? Cause I don't even know what it is. Well that's my last question. Is Forget what Bob says. You've been doing the war for thirty five years. What is really happening. in the skies in the water. What do you think is going on? The right answer. Is I don't know. If I if I gave you an answer. That means I haven't been doing this for thirty five years. Do you have a favorite theory? Time travel, ultra dimension. I don't think I don't think that time traveling and extraterrestrials are a separate thing. Interesting. I think that There is no way to travel in a linear fashion. in the universe. I don't believe that. I don't think that's a I think that's just The reality of Space and time. There's nothing that travels faster than light. In a linear direction. Based on that. We cannot reach Alpha Centauri. Thirty years. Something like that. Is it four years at the speed of light? I can't remember. Yeah, it's three point eight, three point nine years. Light years. Light years. So The thing is, that's not how we're gonna travel. Whatever these objects can do, I call them objects because they're technological marvels. They they apparently have, and this is again, not just based on what Bob Lazar says, but also some of the people that are coming out talking about These Gravity Generators these having it Controlling gravity, controlling some type of time warp. Yep. Gravity and time and space are interlocked, it's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. As uh y you are we're essentially bending space and time. Your time travel. Our we're not time traveling like Marty was time traveling in in in the Delorean time machine. Right. We are it is time travel. Because if you're manipulating gravity. If you're manipulating. You are essentially manipulating time. You so you're not you're not doing it to go like let me go back and see if I can get give myself the lottery numbers. That's that's not what's happening. Right. So To me. It has to be extraterrestrial, I think. It it has to be extraterrestrial. It's a s it's not it's not just one. Species. I don't believe it's only one type. That has have been here. I do believe they have been here. Very high conviction they have. Uh I can't prove it. Like everyone like everyone can't prove it. Uh But I can't prove it as much as the Pope can prove that Jesus walked on on earth. That's fair enough. Okay. There's a lot of people in the world that believe that Jesus walked on water, multiplied bread, raised the dead. Turned water into wine. And they believe it. Absolutely nothing that supports it. But they believe it. And they'll they'll die believing it. But yet there's An enormous amount of evidence. that there are objects in the sky that are producing that are that are doing things that are absolutely impossible. With conventional. aircraft that we have, caught them on radar, cut them on multi systems. We don't want to believe that that's possible that they came from another planet. Because Because and I also spoke to some the most Well known scientists out there. Because there's no way for them to come here. It's too far away. Yeah. With our type of technology. Right. We couldn't have gone to the moon on a horse and carriage. That's true. So it's like, of course, I get it. But there's more. And we'll keep finding more. We only know five percent of physics. Exactly. So it's in there somewhere. Well eventually. I hope we get A little bit of clarity. But my hope Before we get clarity on the on the ETs and the UFOs. Going back to what my friend used to say. Emily? I hope we start paying attention more to us as a species. And start becoming A better species to ourselves. First. Then we'll worry about E T. It's a long gonna be a long time coming. Luigi Ventitelier, I hope you become a full time filmmaker. It's amazing, S four's amazing. Really excellent. Um Anything we you want to send them anywhere, you want Well look, uh it's available obviously on Amazon Prime Video. uh under S for the Bob Lazar story, and it's also available on wearnotalone.com. Gonna be looking for the UFO in the book and all that stuff. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Everybody. So that was Luigi Venditelli, former National Director of Moufan Canada, and the filmmaker behind S4 The Bob Lazar story. Bob Lazar's timeline holds up on specific checkable points. He went public through journalist George Knapp on Las Vegas TV in May 1989. describing a fuel source, Element 115 That didn't exist yet. It was first synthesized in 2003, naming a then non-existent element in 1989 is a strange thing to get right if you didn't know about it. The 1941 map Luigi's team found is also real. It shows a road leading into the mountain at Papus Lake, exactly where Lazar placed S4. Maps from 1950 and 1952 don't show that road at all. And the Papu Slake map was edited eight days after Lazar went public. Luigi's light discovery, that the craft's interior appeared to absorb rather than reflect halogen lighting? Well, ultra-light absorbing materials are a real field of research. And whether this particular material behaves that way I don't know. but it is scientifically possible. And here's what I keep coming back to. Emily Trim's last words to Luigi. They came down from the sky and landed in front of us and talked to us so that we could tell the world and nobody cared. Whatever happened at the aerial school in Zimbabwe in 1994, this is a woman who spent her life trying to communicate something shown to her as a child. She died believing no one listened. And those images, the beings transmitted, war, suffering, the earth on fire. That seems to be happening all around us right now. I hope we do something about it. As for the Bob Lazar story is on Amazon Prime Video, I promise it's really good. Luigi's company is WeARNotAlone.com. For background on the foundational crash that started all of this. I covered Roswell front to back. The truth about Roswell, linked down below. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you are appreciated. Yeah. 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