Kids bike industry market challenges

LinkedIn is pretty great at a lot of things, like helping you tap into your field's latest industry trends and insights. We can't stop your colleague from tapping her pencil. LinkedIn can help you find new jobs that align with your career goals. We cannot help find the source of that weird smell in the office bridge. Ew. And while we can't stop your colleagues from bringing their hobbies into the off ice, LinkedIn can help bring your career to the next level. LinkedIn is the network that works for you. Hello valued client, could you pay me please? Could you pay me please? Could you pay me please? It's not because I'm greedy, it's because my work's not free. Could you pay me please? Could you pay me please? I'd love it if you pay cause money does not grow on trees. Could you pay me please? Could you pay me, please. When chasing invoices is getting ridiculous, let Sage Core Pilot do it for you and get paid up to seven days faster. Search Sage Accountant. We all have busy lives, and knowing when to train and to rest is what leads to better quality, more consistent riding. I ain't got no time for burnout, guys. I'm busy. Data helps take the guesswork out of training, which is why today's episode is supported by Garmin, who are legends when it comes to data. Pairing a Garmin Edge head unit with a rally power meter gives you metrics like power, cadence and left-right balance. And with heart rate data from your watch or heart rate monitor, you can calculate your recovery and train in readiness. That means smarter sessions and fewer blow-ups Thanks to Garmin for supporting the show. From various radar taillights and camera headlights to edge bike computers, tax trainers, rally power meter pedals, Garmin cover performance and safety from every angle. One other piece of news, Garmin Rideout is back, and we're all gonna be there. Yep. Yeah. We had a lot of fun last year. I'm looking forward to it. Reunited again. It's a lovely ATK ride around the new forest, which is in southern England. It's an aid of action medical research and the route is fantastic. There's also a an event village with talks from people. It's a great day out. So maybe see you there. Thirtieth of May. So we'll put a link in the description if you want to sign up. And if you are there, make sure you say hello. It's the wild ones, it's the w ild ones . It's the wild ones, it's the wild ones. I sent that to you in confidence. Oh was that not was that not for air? It was just banter. I didn't think that was actually gonna go live at an episode. That's gonna be our new jingle now, Jimmy. It's not, is it really? What did you think, Francis? Yeah, it's it's proof that AI is not gonna take over um a real music the real music world because how could it possibly be as creative as that. That's definitely a way to look at it. I was actually channeling um the pet shop boys when I made that. Were you? I get that. I get that. Neil Tennant. Local lad. Mm-hm m. Maybe I should send it to him. Maybe. Maybe he'll redo the vocal on it. No, the vocals the best bit . The whisper. What was the worst bit do you think? Um That it ended. Yeah, exactly. It was actually a repurposed jingle that I made for the Wild Ones Pro show that you refused to use at the time, so I'm really surprised that it's resurfaced to be honest. I mean that was that was meant to be sort of 10 minutes max that episode so I felt like have it and also when you first sent it to me it was about a minute long the song. So that jingle being a tenth of the show seemed quite excessive. It is a bit it's a bit of a shame that people don't get to experience the the seven verses that I wrote them. Welcome back to the Wild Ones Podcast, the show where we chat about bike stuff. I'm Jimmy, this is Francis, hey, and this is producer Emily. Oh hello. And as always, thanks to Garmin for supporting the show. Francis, do you remember what you were doing possibly exactly, but probably not exactly six years a go? I don't remember what I was doing six minutes ago. Listening to the best jingle in history, probably. It was great. Well, you were in fact being paped by a photographer for a newspaper, The Times I believe, wasn't it? Oh, I do remember this. This is like when you look on Facebook and it tells you your memories. Jimmy's that that guy. I'm the memories. I'm the jingles and the memories. This was uh my my dad was like, You're in the newspaper. Show me a picture. And it was it was not a good thing. It was during COVID, wasn't it? Yeah, so it was in the middle of COVID, social distancing was a thing in the UK, and you weren't allowed to be near any people except for your own household. And uh the Times newspap er, which is a massive newspaper, uh, posted a picture of some cyclists riding up box hill with me in it. Yeah. And say well, like I don't know what the headline what was it? Just basically like outing people for not social distan cing. Big trou ble. Uh, and then we got really annoyed about it because the photo they used was a long lens facing us with loads of compression, making it look like we were close to people and we weren't. Yeah. Cause you actu you actually ended up getting you happened to take a a a photo in the opposite direction. At exactly the same time. Or almost exactly the same time, which showed with an iPhone how far away we really were, which was miles away.. By far Or hundreds of meters away at least. At least two meters. More than two meters. If if anything, it was a a great lesson in camera lenses and how they work. And that was that was the positive from the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. They were doing it um in lots of places, weren't they? They w I remember some Regents Park stuff being like, Look at all of these cyclists riding in a bunch and again it was the same situation where they'd used a camera to purposefully. It's like um the Times, I guess print it's like clickbait, but for old people. Which is savage really, isn't it? Talk about a slow news day, it was basically a slow news two years. There was nothing else going on in the world other than the daily COVID briefing, what's happening in the world, we've all got to stay inside and cyclists that take ruining everything . Good times, good times. Mmm . Right, okay. I'm gonna kick us off with a bit of oddball tech news. Just close your eyes for a moment and imagine a world where the terms front wheel and rear wheel no longer exist. They are redundant. Wheels are simply wheels and they fit into either slot on your bike. Does this sound like the future? Sounds like a car. Yeah, so I was about to say that. I changed a car tire the other day. Considering I don't drive, I feel like that was it was done in the wrong order. But you know, build up the skills before did you change a car tire or a car wheel? Because if you change the tire, I would be very impressed. Everyone says I'm talking in terms that people understand, which is change the tire. It's just do you need a machine to change a ti re? I'm guessing yeah. So it can be done with a lot of uh very elbow grips. Big m uh like sledgehammers and things, but in the modern day it's all done on machines, yeah. Yeah, I thought so. They're actually tubeless. So you even even knew that. Oh, they got slime in. No s no slime in them. So that that so that's why it's so hard to get them off. So they're so tight that it's sealed. Interesting. But no s no slime, no tu be. No slime, no tube. Isn't that is that Bob Marley's song? It's definitely our next t-shirt. Yeah . Okay. So back to closing your eyes, back to the imagery of Really feel like you've taken the steam out of my uh little bit here. But um yes. In the world of bikes, there are no front wheels, there are no rear wheels, there are only wheels. Does this sound like the future or a solution to a problem that almost no one has? I'll let you be the judge. Because a company called Fasten has just launched a couple of road bikes with interchangeable front and rear wheels. It uses a technology they designed called the switch wheel system, which keeps the cassette and disc rotor on the frame, essentially. So you know the front wheels and rear wheels are totally interchangeable. Why? Well, they say it's so that you can change wheels in seconds without getting dirty or compromising the bike's performance. It obviously requires specifically designed frame sets with bearings integrated into the chainstays and fork, which is presumably why they've now m made their own. What I'm struggling to work out is what is the application here? Pit stop s. It is it's F1 stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's like c w when I used to watch F1 as a kid a pit stop was like nine to twelve seconds, whereas now they're I I'm not 100% certain but I've seen them as like two seconds and things so they've really dialed in the pit stop in F1. And I perhaps it's thinking about procycling and them only needing one wheel that is a front or a rear and, then they can just go zzz on your on your on your way again. And my first thought was designing solutions of problems that no one really has. But then I did have a look at it and I I do kind of like it. It is like it is very annoying that we have a front wheel and a rear wheel. Especially, you know, Francis, we've got house wheels. We therefore need a set of wheels that we can change the free hubs on to make sure that we can use the house wheels on any bike. Okay, di different rotors. Yeah, it's a it's a yeah. So house wheels are the wheels that we always put on bikes in first look videos. Because so many different sets of wheels and types of wheels come with bikes. You take those off, you put on a standard set so you can get get a perception of what the frame is contributing or what the wheels are contributing to how good the frame feels. We were like, well, we need some in the US as well, because now we have offices here, so I'll I'll just get some wo just a it's just a pair of wheels. It's not just a pair of wheels, it's about a million other things to make it work. And then gravel as well. Yep. Annoying. More annoying than you think. So d do I think this idea is good? I actually do. Do I think it's too late? Yes. We've all gone too far. Let it go. This is the way it is now. Well maybe they're trying to do a a SRAM and and convince all of the bike frame manufacturers to remake their bikes like SRAM did with UDH, you know? is all just intact. It does make sense. You know, it'd be easy to put it in a car, be easy to put it on a turbo, it'd be easy to other things. It's just less faff. I do like the less faffiness of it, but doesn't solve the rotor problem, does it? We've gone too far. Yeah, we have gone too far. Well it does it does solve the rotor problem. Because the rotor's on the bike as well. Yeah, but if you're in a t you're p if if bikes are running different size rotors, then you still the calipers in the wrong No, because that's all like on the bike. So it that doesn't come off. So it once the rotors are lined, you can take the wheel in and out and it hasn't it like the rotor doesn't come off with the whe el. So if if so it had if one bike had a one forty and a one sixty and another had a one sixty and one sixty, it wouldn't matter because that rotor stays on the bike when the wheel. Oh, I'm sold, Jimmy. So the the cassette stays on, so the drivetrain still works. The rotors stay on, so you don't have to mess around with them. So like that's you know, you set it up, it's aligned, it just stays there. Taking the wheel in and out doesn't mess around with that. Finally, I can do my super quick pit stop change wheel change. Yep. Exactly. Um yeah. It's a thing, I guess . That's the conclusion. It's a thing, I guess. You mentioned earlier, Jimmy, that you thought it was a bit of a Grava like product. Gravva is the automatic tire reinflation system thing that has now unfortunately gone bust. So it's yeah, it feels like it's been developed with uh Formula One and optimized pro racing in mind, which as Grava have already proved is if that is your business model, the chances are it's not gonna end well. You need application for well, the people that actually buy products. Like normal people that ride bikes . Next over in the world of pro racing, Vismas Mateo Jorgensen was allegedly attacked and threatened by a Movistar rider after a stage of the Turreno Adriatico. A Dutch news site claims it kicked off in the team paddock. Movistar's Javier Romo grabbed Jorgensen by the neck and gave him some choice words before the Movistar team manager split them up. It was all allegedly over some off-camera maneuver Jorgensen pulled during the race. Jorgensen apparently shouted Adios in a taunting tone as Romo left. Visma shrugged it off, saying it was just a race inc ident. Um I think uh Mateo Jorgensen listens to us, so hey no he does not he d he follows me Jorgensen if you're listening to this send us a WhatsApp oh seven eight six oh eight six oh two one three wait saying what you'd what do you want him to say? Just proof of life. Oh pro,of of life. Okay. There need then it hasn't been enough fights in ProCycle. We need to bring back the fights. I agree. No one's too many, just bring big back some of the beef. Well, it's like um it's like wrap beef or WWE, constructed beef sells . If you could fight anyone on in bike YouTube, who would it be? Consider Reach. Um Francis C ade. You know you're my sensei. You can't do that. Lesson one, punch through someone's head. Um I I Emily's not putting any of this in I can already see it. Are you gonna use any of it? I mean, let's see where it goes and then I'll decide. Right. I've said this before, Francis, and I'll say it again. If you want to have a sanctioned boxing or well probably boxing fight with someone else from the world of media, I will train you via Skype . Perfect. Jimmy, I think you're a lover, not a fighter, aren't you? What'd you mean? What what I say? Oh okay. You're a lover, not a fighter. Jimmy is tech like he is a fighter. Is he? He taught me how he taught me how to uh I don't know what uh martial arts he knows, I can't remember the name of it, but the first lesson was punch through someone's head. to H punowch through someone's head. Seems quite violent. Not a lover. He knows it all, but rarely does he use it. Is that fair? I don't use it at all. But in an emergen cy. Can you move us on? This has got silly. Okay. Meanwhile, an entire cycling team just got suspended over doping violations. They're one of Colombia's best-known domestic squads, called Medellin EPM. And in their roster of riders is Oscar Sevilla, the 90s Grand Tour Star. He's now been suspended for 30 days, along with all of his teammates, and it's all because of biological passport irregularities of two former riders who aren't even with the squad anymore. Now this is a little known UCI rule which says a team can be temporarily suspended if two or more riders or staff trigger anti doping violations within a twelve month period. And that's exactly what's happened here. The sanctions relate to abnormal samples taken in twenty twenty three from Colombian riders Aldemarez Ortega and Fabio Andre Duarte Aravello. Neither of them has raced for Medellin EPM since the two I'll be honest, all of the Spanish names you seem to be. This is a number. I told you I'm mad with numbers. This is why this is why I hired Jimmy to fix everything in my life that's number related. Four four whole digits in a row. I'll help you out on that last little bit. Neither of them have raced for the team since the twenty twenty four season. Am I right in saying that Sevilla has Oscar Sevilla has previously been suspended for doping. U h Yep. Yes. Libel laws. No, he's been suspended for like a year before, right? Yeah, back in the in the in the late EPO era. Isn't it incredible that Oscar Sevilla is 49 years old and still racing at that level? Wild. I actually quite like that rule. It seems to make sense. If there's multiple people in a team that get in caught, there's the possibility that there's something else at play and it gives them the opportunity to investigate. If they're not uh doing anything dodgy, then it is a little bit sad for the riders that they don't get to race. But it's only thirty days. Yeah, it's only thirty days. Oh is it only thirty oh catch up on your emails and your you know your DMs and stuff. Yeah. Or just probably ride your b bikeike.. Probably ride the Yeah, but that's probably what they're doing. Okay, next. Shimano's been told to pay an eleven point five million dollar penalty in the US over the handling of the whole faulty holotech cranks The ruling comes from the Consumer Product Safety Commission. They say Shimano failed to immediately tell authorities that faulty cranksets existed and that they posed a hazard to users, despite receiving warranty claims about the issue as far back as 2013. They say Shimano received thousands of crankset warranty claims between 2013 and 2022, including dozens of reports of injuries due to faulty cranks. But the commission says Shimano didn't immediately report the issue to them, which created an unreasonable risk of serious injury or death to consumers. When the recall finally came about in 2023, it reportedly affected 2.8 million cranksets globally. But the commission says this new settlement has now resolved the charges. One extra point on this. Shimano's now released a statement confirming it's agreed to pay the penalty. However, they say they don't admit the allegations and that by paying the penalty it's not an admission of guilt or that they've broken. the law It's interesting this has come about because there definitely were a lot of people online anecdotally saying a long time before 2023, when the recall finally came out, that there were problems with Shimano crank sets delaminating and stuff. Yeah the reputation is is bad. But I think I said to you before we started recording, like does it we know about it. The online cycling world know about it. People who are really into bikes know a bit. And and the majority of people who buy Shimano stuff don't know about it. And we'll never know. Or don't care.. Correct And I also think people forget. Very quickl y. There were do you remember we were walking over the bridge in Durham the other day and I saw a Cannondale CAD X, which was a bike model that I had once upon a time, which had a recall on the fork, and he had the original fork still. So that really shows that actually with all these recalls, lots of people don't even know and just carry on about their business using things. I did I was gonna go and run after him, but he was absolutely hoolin' it up the hill and I couldn't I couldn't he was he was gone before I had a chance. But that would have been weird, wouldn't it? Hey mate, um that fork you got it might break, you should probably stop riding your bike. Like, what are you talking about, you lunatic? I think you're like a fortune teller. Who's running up the hill? It's just creaking. A quick break to tell you about our favourite VPN service, Nord VPN, one of today's sponsors. If you're into pro racing, then you might already be familiar with it. Yes, because one of the reasons that NordVPN is great is that you can use it to stream your sports and entertainment subscriptions wherever you are in the world. So for example, Jimmy and I are about to go on holiday. Which I'm very much looking forward to. Yes, and we can use NodeVPN to keep watching our streaming services. That is one of the I you know I, like going on a holiday, but I legitimately find it annoying when you're halfway through a box set or like you know well uh what what do you even call it these days? A box set a series. And then you get there and you can't watch it. Yeah, because g God forbid we would want to unplug and actually enjoy the surroundings. So no now we don't have to. We can unplug from the world and each other. So we recently talked about Emily's dad getting caught by a AI crypto website scam. And had we known that NordVPN had all of these pri online privacy tools, well, I wish he'd had it sooner, but Yeah, it could have potentially helped. So yeah, it helps you increase your privacy online, it keeps your data safe, protects your bank details, your passwords, protects you if you're using public Wi-Fi, it can alert you to dodgy websites. My dad in this scam potentially exposed some of his passwords and let's just say they weren't the most secure. He definitely needs s a little bit of extra help keeping his details safe online. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but now we can set him up on Nord. They have a password manager tool, which I think will really help because that's one of the difficulties. People go, oh how do I remember all my passwords? And one Nord VPN account can be used on up to ten devices so you can actually protect your whole household. Yes, you can protect yourself, you protect your family, watch your sports, it's a win-win. Yeah, with the classics now in full swing and the grand tours on the horizon, it's a great time to have a VPN and Nord is one of the best. We got a deal, don't we? Oh yes, we do. If you click the link in the description, you will get four extra months on a two-year Nord VPN plan. So that is the equivalent of now until the end of July, aka peak Tour de France season for free. Nord offers a thirty day money back guarantee, so there is no risk. There's a link in the description of the podcast. Do it . Immerse yourself in Herbal Essence's new Moroccan Argon Oil Elixir. Infused with pure Argon Oil. Just one drop delivers up to 100 hours of hair nourishment with the indulgent scent of a Moroccan garden. Herbal Essence's new Moroccan Argon Oil Elixir spar quality hair repair without the price tag. Try it now. Her boom essences. Surface repair to smoothness, nourishment with regimen use versus non-conditioning shampoo. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run, and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand, marketing tools that get your products out there, integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time, from startups to scale ups, online, in person, and on the go. Shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your one dollar a month trial at Shopify.com/slash set up. 1983 election, she's won a landslide second time. Police have been deployed to disperse crowds as the poll tax riots escalate. Credit crunches continuing to spread from the USA. Britain has left the European Union. Boris, Liz. We've helped Britain invest through forty five years of change. That's why we're the UK's number one investment and savings platform, trusted by two million people. Hargrees lands down. Helping Britain invest for it all. Investment returns vary. For claim verification, visit HL.co.uk . Two new bikes caught my eye this week. Mmm. They're both blue. Clearly all the best bikes are blue. And that's about all they have in common. The first is a limited edition Bugatti Factor One . And I think it's maybe the most expensive bike we've ever seen. One of at least, yes. That's not like gold plated or anything like that. It's Royal Blue, it's got the world Bugatti written on the down tube. And unlike the regular factor one, this one is not UCI legal because they've made some changes to the already massive fork to make it even more massive. There's also a few bespoke components, uh carbon TI rotors and chain rings, black ink, Bugatti hyper sixty-two wheels, continental tires with a Bugatti logo on. The normal price for a factor one with Dura Ace is thirteen thousand eight hundred and ninety-nine dollars, which is fifteen thous and and ninety-nine euros. The Bugatti edition, twenty-three thousand five hundred and ninety-nine US dollars or twenty five thousand seven hundred and ninety nine euros. That is a lot of money for what is horrible looking Do you think it looks like a j the the the I think the factor the normal factor one, despite all of the memeage , is actually quite a cool looking bike. Like if I saw that I'd be like, Yeah, this have a go on that. This this is just too much for you. No, no, nope. Not for me. The the ri it's like a blue wit looks like uh a rim brake track. It's not because it disc the bike, but it looks it's horrible. If if you put into context, I actually did a search on Auto Trader, which is a UK website for this is not sponsored for selling cars. I just realized the way I said it. Have we got a code? It's so I think there was four or five Bugattis on auto trader at the minute in the whole of the United Kingdom. The cheapest one is two point three million pounds. Is it? So when you put into context someone that's got a two point three million pound car and they go, Oh, I want a match in bike, twenty-three grand, they go, Oh, only is that it? Yeah. And this make it more expensive, please. There's only two hundred and fifty of them around as well, so it's exclusive. The bike or the car? No., the the bike The bike. Do you remember we we watched the F1 movie like last week? Yeah. And do you remember a bike features in that film, one of the one of Brad Pitt's co teammate I don't know the I don't know the F one terms. His teammate has a b ike. Do you remember which one it was? Uh it was a trek. It was a trek. Trek Madone. And I remember we were watching it and I was like, oh, it's old SRAM shifters. And you were like, what? You can tell. Like, yes. Jimmy's become that guy. Um, am I allowed to say or is it spoiler alert that you have actually now ridden a factor one? Um I don't know if it's a spoil er. I'm not gonna give my opinion on it on the podcast, but yeah, we've we've got one. We've got one right now on loan. Not to the not to the uh Bugatti one unfortunately. We've got the UCI legal one. They don't trust us that much. Um I won't spoil a video, but am I allowed to say that you've had some neck pain and subsequently. But back and neck pain, yeah, for sure. I would have loved to have tested that bike. Maybe if you haven't sent it back by the time I get back, which is um they might start getting annoyed because that's what like two months. Well, you can come back sooner. Uh nah, there's no flights. There's just none. It turns out the flights start just when the weather changes. It's crazy. It's 'cause the the planes uh they've changed them these days. Yeah. To be o they can only fly through a dry. So what what's what's the other bike you've got for us then? On the flip side, a bike that couldn't be more different, the Kuwahara Grasshopper one. It's like a made-up name. I don't know what is Kuwahara. I've never heard of it. Everything so is Factor. It's made by a BMX brand that made the famous flying ET bike. And it's an 80s-inspired 26er all-terrain bike. It's just an old mountain bike. But it looks it's pretty cool. So cool. We saw this on bike rad ar. And for listeners, it is a royal blue frame with chrome shiny components, Tamil tires, it's flat bar, steel frame and fork. It comes in a few different colorways and the price is one hundred and thirty two thousand Japanese yen. It sounds expensive. Six hundred and twenty-five pounds. Um it is co ol. Whenever I see um a twenty-six inch wheeled b ike that is ne w, I just think wouldn't it be way cooler just to build up a second hand one or see what the you know there's a whole community around this kind of thing making some very cool builds and I would go to one of those places . We talked about it in the what the what was the shop called? Which one? Been to a lot of shops. No, no, no. We haven't been in. We haven't been in. Oh we did. So a a shop we've been at together, but not in. Okay, that's even more. We went there in a roast my right. Uh Baba London Bikes. Oh yes, yeah. It's the guy who like he he's it's a little community in London, like it's just it's awesome. And I would buy that buy a used one. It's it's super cool though. I do like it. I'd prefer it to have one by ten group set on it, Street Fighter, or even a pedal brake. I am a big fan of a pedal break. I do like a pedal break. What back pedal. Yeah. Very specific jet. So you wouldn't this bike then just the answer. Would I want it? No. I do like it though. I'd stick on a wall. If you change if you just change like w everything, then we'd probably Okay cool. Okay, so factor bugatti or kuahara grasshopper one, which Oh Grasshopper. Grasshopper, easy. Well I'd I what I would do is take a few. I would ride the grasshopper around, I wouldn't be embarrassed to ride it. Whereas you could I'd be look at the Bugatti one go I can't I always go outside riding that the other piece I'm gonna say to Jimmy is you're not allowed to sell it in exchange for cash. Oh I was just about to do the maths. This is why you're the numbers guy. He goes straight to sell it. What is the math you're trying to work out? How many you'd be able to buy? You could buy a fleet. It's like thirty something. Oh. It's only twenty eight. Okay, so would you want twenty eight grasshoppers or a bugetti? Um Bacter Bugay . I would take the grasshopper, but either would look good on a wall. What's the consequences? No consequences. Free. Nothing's ever free, Jimmy. Yeah, well, yeah. Here's the price. Here's the price. You you either get the fac tor, but every evening when you go to bed, you turn off the lights in your room and David Miller's standing in the corner. Yeah. Okay. And then you turn the back on, he disappears. Or you get the grasshopper and the same thing happens, but it's E. T. Um, are you allowed to talk to them? So could I actually have a chat with David Miller about like, I don't know, bikes and stuff. Yeah but, but you can have a chat he won't reply. Oh so you can't have a chat then? You mean I can talk at a a thing that's not is it actually him? So does he actually get teleported there as well and have to be there. Now it would be annoying for him. That'd be so funny. If that's the case, I would go with that option 'cause that would be really that would be hilarious. Just David Miller's like mid interview and I'd just like do the light switch . So for banter I'd go with that. So that's the one, yeah. I've actually uh one of the postcards behind me is from David Miller. All right, name drop. That one. Let's move on time for some unpopular opinions. These are your hot takes which we'll debate and decide if we agree. This week's one is from Matthew from Tennessee, who says My unpopular opinion is that high end bikes aren't expensive en ough. Where is this going? He's gonna make enemies. Sure, bikes are very expensive, but I'm tired of hearing people in comment sections saying that bike brands are out of touch for pricing their bikes too high. The new CAD fourteen is a great example. People are freaking out about how expensive it is, but I'm not really sure what they want Cannondale to do. Aluminium prices have skyrocketed recently, it's a like a tariffs thing. And welding is a highly skilled job that can't be done by machine in this case. As far as I know, I may be wrong. Uh I think that is true. Like that they are hand welded, aluminium frames gener ally. The only solution I see is to pay employees less. Giant was just caught for unethical labor practices, as have most of the other big brands at some point in time. If we as consumers push too hard for cheaper prices, are we really just pushing for unethical labor practices? I work at a high-end bike company in the US, and I can say for sure that the men and women who make our bikes are not making a lot of money. Most of us could probably earn a similar amount working at a fast food restaurant. Sure, there are some high earners at the executive level of some brands, but honestly I don't think that affects the price of bikes that much. I don't know how to make bikes more affordable, but just selling bikes for less is only going to increase sketchy labor practices. Keep up the great work. I love listening to the show as I build bikes. It's a good point. However, there are also not necessarily in cycling, but if for example, if you look at the fashion world, because they have these same debates, fast fashion versus high-end brands, and they find high-end brands doing sketchy stuff in labour practices. The the problem is, as a consumer, you have absolutely no information or inkling on the th there seems to be no correlation between price paid and wages paid. So all you have to do is trust us, we're we're good, believe us. And I think that's where the uh the dis It's probably why people uh well some people really like stuff made close by to them, because they or they it gives the feeling at least, and it probably is you know, the people are looked after. They can see that the employees are looked after and that they they're in a country where they understand the rules. Um so they know they're being paid minimum wage, all these kind of things. Um I I mean to tackle the first point, the comment sections are always gonna be people are frustrated that something is very expensive to them. I think that that that's always gonna happen. It is it's a very good point, Matthew. Thank you very much for sending it in because I do agree with it. People should be getting paid fair appropriate wages for making products and therefore you would think that that would have an impact on the price of an item. Put it this way, right? Here's a scenario for both of you. If you were t old, okay, you can buy this bike for eight hundred pounds dollars whatever and uh the people making it were going to make substantially under living wage. They were gonna be in debt bondage, have a miserable time, blah blah blah. Or you can buy this same bike, it's no better, for three thousand pounds, dollars, um, and we guarantee that the people working there are happy and fulfilled in their work. They're getting paid a fair wage. And by fair it means b over living wage. You know, a fair wage based on their skill level at all point all you know points in the business , which one are you gonna go for? I I don't think it's a hard question to answer is Exactly that's the point. And if there was a direct correlation and you were very, very confident of that, uh thenhen it's in aubril. But we're not talking about us, we're talking about someone who wants to ri de mm you know, it w three thousand would be cripp ling. And not an option. But but I understand that. But also what I'm saying is there isn't a direct cor as far as I am aware as a consumer. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like that is a challenge to marketing departments. If you are a marketing department and you want to say if you buy from us, yes, we are more expensive, but X, Y, and Z is guaranteed, then you have a customer in me. And I understand that you know that there is a privilege in saying I can afford to buy this three grand bike. But uh and you know they're almost two separate topics, but if that was a guarantee that a marketing department could tell me and would be able to be checked out, then I think they would get customers. I just don't think that there's a correlation there between those things. That's what it feels like to me as a consumer. And maybe that's the one of the issues that needs to be tack led. But it's it's across the board though, isn't it? It's not just in cycling. It's it's just it's just absolutely everything. Like there's there's no real accountability for where things that we're buying are coming from. Mm-hmm. It it's just very, very difficult to be an ethical consumer, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, what were we talking about the other day? Sho es. You wanted to get a heel put on one of your shoes. Yeah. And actually finding a cobbler these days is really hard. And then I was like, Well, a hundred years ago, they would have been absolutely everywhere because you used to get a pair of shoes and every time you wore out the sole, you'd get the sole replaced, and that pair of shoes would last you most of your life. Whereas now we just buy plastic shoes and then throw them out once they once the soul's knackered on them. It does feel like we're at the worst possible point of civilization and and things are gonna start going backwards. Oh, yeah. But also maybe maybe this is just getting old. I was about to say this is what happened when you when you get old, you're back in my day, things were better. I think one of the other problems comes from. Like you see it when when new bikes come out, Francis, for example, was given the highest end cat, which is the one. Oh yeah, the comments would be the same if we if we if we had the middle one . Well, I mean, maybe they will I'm I'm sure I'm sure there's still someone upset about it. And people think that the frame sets are still expensive. But do you know what I mean? There is a real glorification of the top end thing because it's the blingiest and it gets the most attention. I mean we have literally done it with this Bugatti factor one as well, you know what I mean? They're selling two hundred of them. There's always going to be people that will pay that amount from them. But it's almost it's um a marketing exercise at the end of the day. Well Col Nago do it every few years, don't they, when they they That's the thing. Despite all the comments, uh what Cannondale will see is they kind of nailed the design and they have made a good product and it's gonna sell out like very quickly. So why would they not do that as a business? Yeah, it's a really interesting time in cycling. I think it's and and I am noticing it with um the cycling media at large, there's a real attitude, attitude shift to even you know, some of the more established, longer serving cycling media brands who've been reviewing bikes are all of a sudden sometimes men tioning price and that it's actually, oh, this is quite expensive, isn't it? Whereas I I don't think there was even a consideration of that before. And that will all be audience feedback. So it clearly is something that's on audiences minds. Yes, I guess everyone wants stuff to be cheaper. And I do take um who is this person? Matthew's point that everything w what happens when stuff gets cheaper is at the expense of the people at the bottom? Usually. Yes, probably. But as consumers, I also think that we don't believe that when things get more expensive, it's at the benefit of the people at the bottom. And that's the problem, isn't it? You can't you can choose where you buy things from though. Yeah. You know, you can you can choose to support support smaller businesses that are that do have a cleaner supply chain. And, you know, we we talk about them regularly. The chances are they're not going to be a carbon fiber brand unless you are very wealthy. But there are plenty of steel bike brands out there that are much more well, they're just smaller. So you could ask them who makes your bike and they could probably tell you. Massican's a great example of it. Well, and nine times out of ten, it's just a guy in Ital y making stuff If it's a small business, yes, not with it's a big one . Hey Bill, can I whoa your desk? But why so many notebooks and stickies? Yeah, I know. It's the only way I can stay on top What do you mean? I want to stay present during conversations, so I jot things down after, but some things get forgotten. And uh look, there's a much better way to keep yourself organized. Plawed. Plawed? Yeah, Plaud. It's an AI work companion that reliably captures your conversation so you can stay in the moment. Oh wow. Plawed automatically centralizes transcriptions and AI summaries for any conversation, whether it's virtual or in person. So maybe you won't need all these notebooks? Hey Bill, you have a delivery. Why so many sticky notes? Good luck, Bill. CYPLOD is trusted by over two million professionals globally. Visit uk.plad.ai slash pod and for a limited time use promo code UK10 for 10% off any new Plaud Note Pro or Note Pin S. Offer expires May 31. That's UK.pl Aud.ai slash pod and use code UK10 Well if you've got an unpopular opinion you can send it to Wild One's Podcast at cadmedia.co dot uk or WhatsApp us on plus four four seven eight six oh eight six zero213. I said half of that in northern and half of that in southern. 860860. You can also send us stories, dilemmas, and comments for listeners take over. Like this one from Ray. Sent via the medium of voice note. Oh, I love your show, guys. And Francis always brings the great vibes, but his analogy to uh playing a musical instrument is a bit off. I was a professional musician playing uh saxophone and other woodwinds into my 40s before I became a stay-at-home dad and then a woodworker. And it's a lot like being an elite athlete. There is no time off. I can still play my instruments now, but if I I don't have the physical or mental stamina to play at the level I was at. When I was a working musician, I would practice two to six hours a day, not including rehearsals and gigs. And that first two hours was basically maintenance practicing. There's a saying in the music world: if I don't practice for a day, I notice it. If I don't practice for two days, the orchestra notices it. And if I don't practice for three days, the audience will notice. I do highly recommend that anyone that wants to play an instrument get out and play, have a great time. But yeah, there it is. And oh, by the way, playing the bassoon, you also you can buy the reads, but professional bassoonists make their own reads, and that's a whole nother hassle that takes a lot of time. So keep up the good work with the podcast . Just giving you this little nose. Have a good day. Making my own reeds. That's what I'll do. I'll learn how to do that before learning the bassoon. The bassoon. Just like I've learned to change a tire before learning to drive. I should probably check what a bassoon is before I uh sign up to this. So this is in reference to something I think you said a couple of episodes ago, which is you know, if you if you stop riding a bike you you lose the gains quickly, whereas you can stop playing for a little bit and you're still pretty good. If you are an amateur i it's because he Ray is operating at an elite level. That's this is a thing. And this is the s yeah, it's the same thing. When Francis was racing he was operating at a re uh elite level and therefore Saxophone sax of bassooning at an elite level, so he noticed the drop off quickly. Maybe the buttons are in the same place though. But buttons. I don't think it's ke y key holes? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Carry on. Music isn't just about being technically good or classically trained though. I think he's missing a little bit of well, uh the best musicians, this is my opinion, are creatively fueled and emotionally charged, not just technically good. I think the same principle applies. So what you're talking about is musicians which sacrifice um technical ability, much like cyclists that sacrifice their maximum potential to ride bikes in a way that they enjoy, such as adventuring rather than racing. I'm sure you can relate to that, Francis. So you could get skills, I guess like so the the point I was trying to make last time was the drop off like you things you retain the skill for lon ger. And it's it's the skill is the wrong word because you say you learn a song. If I learn a song five years ago digging, Francis. You dig in. No, no, no, no, no. You you learn a song, it stays. And that's not really a technical bit of s music skill. It's just like you've learnt it, you know the chords and then you've kind of got it forever. And it's in the bank. Whereas cycling, it does drop off. There's a physical change in your body and you have to earn it back. And it there's that's really annoying. So so that say that old saying it's like riding a bike, you're saying is incorrect . You can still balance maybe. That's it. You're right though, because um at at the age of about fifteen I learned And I can still bang that one out. You still got it. Exactly. Exactly. And it's a few it's it's like a couple of months probably to get back. If you get cuc have a couple of years off playing an instrument, couple of months in, you're back. Couple of years off riding a bike, couple of months in, you are you are not back. It's like if I wanted to get fit to race aga in, two Cs two years, two seasons, and I would be like still not quite there. It's just way more to get back. But I think Ray would say the same thing . I d I what we're establishing. And I would also argue I would sorry Ray, I would also argue against audience noticing things because I'm sure John Frashante probably went on a heroin bender for two weeks and came back and played a gig in the Red Otchili Peppers and the audience would not notice. And in fact, the the weird break that he had probably created some inspiration and actually led to a better performance. Whoa. Not technical. Not technically peppers were better when they were on drugs. That's a fact. Are we so in a popular opinion here? And this is my point. Music is not just technical ability. I understand. It's like Anthony Keidis is better in the studio when they can auto-tune him. Uh, except for that one Slain Castle, 2000. When was that? I'll find that I'll link I'll link you it. There's a gig where he's like, they are all 100% . Because they've been playing six hours a day. Yeah. They didn't. Yeah, that's Ray was right. You're right, Ray. Um I just think you retain uh bits of the skills more. That's all. That's all I was saying. And I still stand by that. I love how how long you've gone for this ? Well, we didn't have a fluff up of the week for this week and I always want to touch wood when I say that because immediately after I say that, pride comes before a fall and we all have a catastrophic one. But um this week's fluff up the week goes to a listener called Toby. He messaged us on WhatsApp to say he picked up his new bike, a surly straggler from his local bike shop. Good bike. He says thanks to Jimmy for m making metal bikes cool again. He took it for his first ride in Bristol and obviously had to take some photos of it. Seconds after he took a photo, a gust of wind blew it over, bent the mech hanger and tore off the bar tip. Oh no . Honestly, when we film first look bikes outside and we want to do outside B-roll, I like the panic sets in when you're kind of thinking you know you don't want to drop a really expensive 15 grand bike or something rather. It's very sad. But a steel bike, so we'll be fine. He had to then sheepishly go back to the bike shop and get the hanger straightened and they even offered to retape it for him, which is nice. He finally got home, he plugged the mech into charge. He's got the new Rotor Uno gravel group set. And apparently it just it seemed to die, it wasn't shifting, the app wasn't connecting. So he had to take it back to the shop. Four days later, he found out it it gone flat and no one could charge it because it needed a specific voltage or something. Anyway, he's now got the bike back. A little fluff up of the week. The interesting thing about that is um am I right in saying someone someone has this group set also in for a review soon? Yes . We do. Yes. Hey media. Oh yeah, yeah. We have. Jimmy's there's been some emails. I've been keeping an eye on like, get that group set, get the group set, get the group set. It's we have it. It's wheeltop. Branded as rotor. They bought rotor. So it's like a high end. But produced by Wheeltop Groupset. Uh I wonder if that is I am speculating here. But I th I I wonder if this is a charging cable issue because USB C cables. I had this issue with uh the Sony cameras we have. You can technically charge them via USB instead of the proper battery chargers, but it has to be some mega fast USB c able. And the standards around USB-C cables are like nightmare. Like really just weird. And they haven't sorted them out yet. So if you just use like a cable for your phone, it might not charge at all. And that's probably what m if it was if it's USB C. I'd be surprised if it's USB C. I'd love it if it was. I've I've had two issues exactly the same. One, our pressure washer at the studio, the charger for it, has to be an uber powerful one, otherwise, it doesn't work. And then also the lights behind me, the tube lights, they need to be super powerful ones as well, or they don't work. So yeah, maybe it is just the c able. That's the voltage thing he's talking about. I keep getting messages from people, bearing in mind we've only been talking about steel bikes being cool again for not that long. I keep getting messages from people saying, I've just bought a steel bike or I've just bought an aluminium bike. I hope you are right. No pressure. Um so yeah, so we we are legitimately encouraging people to buy metal bikes and I think that is sick. At least like five people. Exactly, yeah. Insane. Yeah. Insane. Yeah . I'm really hungry. We're nearly finished now, Emily. I feel like I'm bonking. This is because we did a two-hour pre-roll bike ride this morning. I've I've just I've just a a new term for pre work bike ride is pre-roll, by the way. So we did a pre-roll bike ride and then you basically skipped a meal, which is the most ridiculous thing you could possibly do. Do you need some sugar? Do you remember we all used to go riding together and I used to hang on the back to try and hang on and just bonked constantly and we had to stop at the Sainsbury's all the time. The little bonk station, Sainsbury's. You can't say bonk station, can you? Bonk station.com. If you use NordVPN, you will be able to access that website and no one will know. No one will know. 100%. That is in. That is onkstation.com. I'm doing it. Use node VPN. No one else do that, guys. Unless you got Node VPN. Link in the bio. Okay. Before my my brain goes to complete mush, I'm gonna finish off this last bit and it involves reading, so fingers crossed. Finally, Gopy says, sad news to hear that kids bike brand Frog Bikes has gone into administration. I had one of these. You had a frog bike? Yeah, Jimmy bought it for me. Oh and he gave it away to some kid who needed it. This was a joke present a couple of years ago that you won at an auction, didn't you choke present. We did we won at a charity auction, paid way over the odds for it, but it was for a good cause. Then I gave it to Francis as a c as a fake present and then we donated to charity. Yeah. Double double cher ry. Okay, he says Jerry, the co-founder, is a triathlon mate of his, and he mentioned back in 2010-ish that he went to Halford's to get a bike for his daughter, and they asked her age, to which he replied, What does that matter? The brake calipers were plastic and he said he subsequently went looking for kids' bikes with proper safe components i.e. what we'd use as adults just smaller he couldn't find anything suitable and that's how frog bikes was born. sa Heys it's such a shame they've gone into administration. They had some great ideas like part Xing a smaller bike frame to a larger one as your kid grew, etc. He says if people do need kids' bikes, it might be worth taking a look at their site. They brought manufacturing from China to the UK to bring more jobs back to the UK. However, Brexit was a big issue. That is a massive shame, isn't it? Especially with Isla bikes shutting down in twenty twenty three as well. Yeah, another kids bike brand. They're British as well. I yeah, they were, yeah. Hmm. One of the hardest things, and actually you get this with entry-level bikes as well, is they end up being incredibly heavy as well for for tiny, tiny people. And just made I I guess I guess that a lot of places are thinking let's keep the cost down because the consumer's gonna grow out of this very quick. How do we keep the cost down by making the parts out of cheese? No, but they had a really good reputation for selling decent lightweight kids' bikes. And there was a really good second-hand market as well. There probably still is. I remember we were looking for Oh for my niece. Yes. And our mate Toby said check out the Facebook marketplaces. Yes. Because they all well, there was like a community of because you know you're not gonna have these bikes for ages because as you said kids grow pretty fast. Buy them, sell them, but because they're good quality, they actually hold their value. Yeah. There's almost like a trick missing. I feel like 700 C wheels have become so standardized that it's like everything has to be 700. But actually, if we started looking at kids' bikes, not as kids' bikes and just small people bikes, and small and small human bikes as small peop ultimately you could sell bikes to people that are five foot, for example, that are smaller wheels on. Giant make a bike called the Seek, which I think we covered on a podcast. The shifters uh it's elect um TRP, but they're specifically designed for small hands, and they sell it as a children's bike. But actually it's probably probably appropriate for some people who are not children. So they should just be like small, small, small, small bike. Yeah. Because you because like, for example, you, Emily, you wouldn't buy a child's bike because you'd be like, Well it doesn't feel appropriate. I have bought a child's bike though, do you remember? Yes I do. The Doors Little Duchess. Yeah. It had a basket and it had mud guards and they were very heavy, so I sort of stripped it down of that and then it was kind of like a sort of like sit back cruiser. It was quite good and it did fit. So I think the trick that's missed is start marketing small people bikes, good quality small people bikes. And then all of a sudden your marketplace is fifty percent of the global population . Ba ding. Well, now we've sol ved all of the world's problems. It is time for me to eat. Do you want to wrap us up? No, she can't even focus. That is all for this week. If you liked it, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss out on the next one. And until then I feel bad I hope I wasn't mean to Ray. I do I I love him and appreciate that he've wrote in. Oh and I do get it what he's saying. But our definition of music is different. Friends are allowed to disagree though. Yeah, it's tru