Putin's Response and Future Outlook

How does a banana trigger a CIA backed coup Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order What do LED lights say about the future of humanity I'mt Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow Sky News, The full story first Hello and welcome to the World podcast. I'm Yala Hakim Putin understands only When there is a total pressure on him, when you are strong, when your answers are strong. That's why we show that our drones will come to them. cities. needs to have something to show from this. Otherwise people will start to ask I think, what's it all been for given all the cost? hasas it been worth it We will not just silently die and we will respond. and we will be stronger and stronger each day, day by day. Richard Engel isn't with me here this week, but I have a very special guest joining me, Sky's Moscow correspondent, Iva Bennett. Iva has spent the last two years covering Russia from Moscow. He lives there with his family, and he has had to deal with all the challenges that come from reporting from a country like Russia In the last couple of years, he's covered everything from the war with Ukraine to recently the economic impact of that war on the Russian economy. He spoke to me about the internet outage that people across Russia are currently facing. He also spoke to me about Vladimir Putin's mood and his attitude now towards the war And some of the concerns growing within Russia, from the public, as well as from the Kremlin. I also discussed with him my exclusive interview with Ukraine's presresident, Volodymy Zelensky, haveave a listen to our podcast with Iva Bennett. And of course, you can follow me and Richard on the world wherever you get your podcasts on Apple or Spotify, and you can watch our podcast on YouTube. You can also send us any of your thoughts at the usual place, the world at skky. Uk. I hope you enjoy this week's podcast Hiva, welcome to the World podcast. We're really excited to have you on the podcast. And to really get a sense, I guess you've been there for two years now To get a sense of what it's like working and operating in a country like Russia Well first of all, great to be here. Nice to speak to you in person rather than down the line speaking to a camera. Um It's Operating in Moscow is a challenge for any journalist, but especially I'd say a British journalist or a Western journalist U and because theres A number of challenges. First of all, all the censorship laws and all these kind of pitfalls. and traps that you could ve got to look out for when you're reporting And these laws were introduced following Russia's invasion of Ukraine february twenty twenty two as a way to kind of control the message and the reporting about the war, which is still called in Russia this special military operation. Remember the word war wasn't allowed. So you've got to watch out for these and these laws for example, are he could be deemed to be discrediting the armed forces or spreading fake news about the military And I mean You tell me that they're deliberately vague, right? They're very vague, They're open to interpretation And so you're always wondering, Is this reporting going to be falling under that. There's a line but you don't always know where that line is. and you're always kind of Just wondering You don't want to obviously overstep it got to sayay the right side of it, but it's constantly shifting. So when you're reporting or doing a piece or even when we're speaking down the line Are you thinking about everything you're saying in a culated way more so than you would if you were working somewhere else, for example Absolutely Always And it's very high pressure And and that pressure, I mean, it's not all what you're not always conscious of it that you're But it builds and it builds. and then you suddenly, when you leave The country John Holiday to London for meetings and things like that You suddenly feel like this this weight is kind of lifted off your shoulders Because yeah, I mean, when you're reporting about such a sensitive topic, you've got to be very, very careful and you've got to attribute everything like we always do anyway You' got to be hyperersensitive, hyper aware and vigilant that what you're saying is cannot be misconstrued and You know, you got to put across both sides of the story. Russia wants that they have a They have an answer for everything And you've got to put that across like we would do anyway There are two sides of the story And so that's That's the job. mean the other challenge we face A actuallyually is like the practicalities of of reporting there are very, very very difficult, not like here a story in London Pick up the phone, ask to go and film somewhere and you don't even need permission to go and film out on the street. In Russia you do. in Moscow, you do, certainly around Red Square, you've got to have a piece of Every single time or is it basically one permit then they know and identify O is it every time you want to come out? Every time in certain areas in central Moscow,ertain around the sensitive areas, around the Kremlin, near there You need a piece of paper explaining your reasons, with the right letterhead on it signed Um Well that's quite easy. But then it's like, you know, if you want to get access to a You're just film in a shop or a cafe As soon as they find out your Western needia. It's just safer for them not to to say yes, not to give you access. So So it was very hard to actually get any kind of access, even just quite innocuous stuff And then it's very hard to persuade people to speak to you getting interviews from either side pro Putin or anti Putin goovernment voices or not? It's difficult because Britain right now is seen as the enemy, the number one enemy And so, you know, there's a there's a few people we can speak to from from the officials from the government and the Kremlin. It's like they're on a very short list of people who are allowed to speak to Western media. But others aren't because it's You what what's in it for them? you know, speaking to it doesn't look, it's not a good look It' a very, very nationalistic, patriotic. environment now and any kind of kind of relationship with the Western organization can be damaging And I want to get to how Britain is perceived in a moment and why Britain is perceived that way right now But in terms of as you say, you want to go down to a part of central Moscow and film Do you also get the sense that you're being watched and monitored and your material is constantly being watched and scrutinized so every piece so if you were to on my show five times in the week, that they would be dissecting and looking at each of that bit of material and as you say, these laws that exist, you know, then determining whether it actually fits in the sort of framework of this is just straight reporting Yes, they do watch everything They've made that pretty clear. things are watched and if they don't like something You kind of, that's fed back It might not be immediate. They might and it's not direct It's kind of a bit secuitous and around the house a little bit like The next time you go for a meeting or something, I have any kind of conversation with say, Ministry of Foreign Affairs they might mention Oh, I saw that and if you did a That report you did a month month ago ye, it was That was interesting kind of thing. It's a little reference, like Okaykay, why are they mentioning that? And it's because They didn't like it or maybe that was a bit too close. face to the ban Um I mean, you've been there two years now Have you found it easier to operate in that way or increasingly sort of almost caustrophobic Well, it's both. I mean, you get used to it because You're doing it all the time, but at the same time, the claustrophobia, that pressure It slowly builds It's like this latent pressure. and then you kind of notice it when you When you leave, And then that's that weight lifted off your shoulder I was talking about U but at the same time like There's a granduual. It feels like there's the The situation is always changing, it's not fast, it's gradual. And right now certainly feels much more Tse and Um on edge than it has been in the two years I've been there Talk me through that change, you know, because we do see, you know, and I talking the other day about my interview with President Zelensky and how his mood has shifted and changed over the course of the last few years. Each of those interviews has been sort of telling about what's been going on in the battlefield and the mood of the country in that same way, if you can help us understand, you know, at different points how your job has become more difficult or easier depending on things have unfolded geopolitically in the region and you know the dynamics between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump, for example I guess first of all on how we do the job. I guess What we've noticed is access. I mean, we are occasionally invited to Kremlin events U when I first arrived There are quite a few we got invited to. quite kind of small close close knit ones. We were in just a few It's a handful of Networks were invited There was when Victor Orban came to town the same day as the UK election actually, last year after The Victory dayay, I was one of four Western journalists there in the front row for this very intimate press conference with Blad been Pting that it turned not to be a press conference. you didn't take any questions, a kind of two AM. inside the Kremlin on Saturday very intimate. So we do get invited, but then recently that's dropped off You know, and and it all came the who came to a head and say This's the victory day this year. this They normally marked by this big military parade on Red Square to mark The Soviet Union's defeat of Nazi Germany in nineteen forty five, Huge, huge moment for Russia, especially under Vladimir Putin, it's kind of the centerpiece of the calendar It's how he exemplifies his vision for the country, right? A huge projection ol for his power And this year there was no military parade because of the risk of attacks from Ukrainian drones. And initially we did receive accreditation like we always do And then the day two days before, The event call from the Kremlin saying She know You can't come anymore Did they say why because the format had changed. Then the next day, Dmimit Peskov,relins spokesman was asked about it, obviously, why have you revoked all these all the all the accreditation for Western media fororeign media, any We're not revoking, we're not banning them. It's just the format has changed. therefore there isn't any more space Um You know, would, There's always a technicality with Russia. I mean clearly, I think let's call it what you want, they say it's not cancellled, not revoked, Either way, we had accreditation, then we didn't. And then that was repeated with a security conference Um two weeks ago, or three weeks ago in Moscow, this big international security conference that they trumpeted got accreditation would have been very interesting to go when they're kind of displaying all this new hardware air defence machines, systems and drones and then up day for C we can we still come No, your accreditation is no longer valid And yet your accreditation for the St. Petersburg confference was valid. And you didn' to go. Well, look, I think so there's some things that they still want people to come to. I think Just going back to to those two things with the accreditation was kind of and old I think that really speaks for that nervousness because it wouldn't have been a good look. The cancellation of a military parade is not good for Vladimin Pon. It shows that something is seriously wrong, right? This is this great moment for him to unify the country, get them behind rally behind the flag It's not a show of strength if it's suddenly suddenly canceled no tanks on Rd square So he doesn't want that shhame Same with the security conference Nervous, obviously around. and anything to do with the military But with the economic Forum, That's like one of their big big things. they want to show that Russia isn't isolated. They made a big thing of how there's one hundred and forty odd nations represented there. You loads of delegations from global south of there And it's a way to try and show Russians and the rest of the world that the country isn't isolated despite the West says and has tried to do that everything is absolutely fine with the economy because look at all these people who want to invest in in Russia, they want us there for those kind of things. and it was the same with the Intervision song contest at the end of last year That's their equivalent of Eurovision, which is a Soviet kind of model they revived after they got booted out of Eurovision following the invasion And it's the same there. they had these competitors and artists from againain, Asia, Africa South America and and it's anything that kind of challenges that Western perception of Russia being isolated They want us there for that You talk about one hundred and forty odd countries arriving or representatives from to St. Petersburg and they want to show that they're not being isolated and yet they arrive to plumes of smoke. because then Ukraine displayed, you know, the nervousness they had around the other two conferences in well, the Victory Day parade and the other conference in Moscow reason why called them off is exactly what was then displayed in St. Petersburg Yeah, I mean, that was extraordinary Waking up that first first morning and then the images peopleeople arriving delegates arriving these huge plumes of smoke on the background behind them rising above the cities and and everyone kind of Obviously they were facing for because that's the direction they were walking away from the smoke, but it encapsulated the whole mood of the conference that everyone was You know, this huge kind of thing burning behind the but no one's looking at it. No one's no one will acknowledge the war is happening it's having quite a big impact, increasingly big impact on country bigger consequences the economy and trying to ask people that you worried about growth? Obviously growth has dipped. They did have a lot of a long period of high growth because of all this rampant military spending But tiip now because the revenues are dropping off Oil production is down because of unscheduled maintenance to oil refineries, I won't explain why. Obviously, there have been drone attacks on all refineries and no one's willing to kind of acknowledge. you just like you walk into this parallel reality where where the wall just doesn't exist and everything's fine. It's this massive ele elephant in the room that everyone's kind of just walking around is not looking at it Bizarre. Well I mean, one thing I put to Volodya M Zelensky is the fact that seventy percent of the Russian population is now in the range of Ukrainian drones. You know That is something that he said, well We were launching drones on villages and no one was paying attention So we had to on Moscow and St. Petersburg because that's where the population is. And so we want to target the population so that they know that the war has come to them Do the Russian population know that Yes, yes. So I thinks I think there's three things that people that is kind of shifted the atmosphere in recent months. Why I talk about it being a much more tense time One is the economy. the rising prices. I mean, they'd be rising for a long throughout the war. because if high spending means high inflation But it's really hitting people's pockets now because H Do doing Volx pops are the best time Vox pops for anyone who doesn't know is when we just ask a random person on the street what they think about something good way to kind of gauge public opinion Doing that is quite difficult as a Western broadcaster in Moscow but And anything to do with the war or peace talks, everyone's very wary But there's twoo things people are very happy to talk about. Rising prices. they just say, ye, Everything's gone up, Terry Eggs, bread, whatever, all the staples, fruit, veg P people are annoyed about The other thing is the internet outages in recent months in Moscow and other big cities, The mobile internet has just been shut down. sending the city kind of back to the nineteen nineties highly digitised city Everything's connected. can you imagine just living without your smartphone? You know,'s it's annoying just socially But if your business depends on it, if you're a taxi driver, U using all the ride haailing apps or a courier or your cafe that doesn't take cash, mobile payment systems, none of that was working and peopleople were very annoyed and that was the other thing that people were just You ask them, what do you think about the internet? And straight away people just start talking. criticizing the war But they're extremely frustrated by the consequences from it. What know how is it being sold to the public? Why Security saafety And it's the saying that we need to do this because of The drone attacks because this so called terrorist regime in Kyiv, That's how they describe The Ukrainian goovernment is targeting innocent civilians, this is how we keep you safe. And that's because as we know, drones use the mobile internet network for navigational or they can use it up but I mean there there's a schoolchool of thought ammong analysts Westernal analysts is that It's not just to do the security, it's also kind of testing the water for how to control society Especially we've got parliamentary elections coming up In September, the first ones since Russia's invasion And some say some analysts are saying, well, this is this is precursor of what's to come. This is how you control society and minimize any risk of discontent brewing. And it's just another repression on society, and people are very unhappy about it And then the third thing, you asked about drone jacks, s it's very long winded answer to get back to it That's one thing people are much less willing to talk about, obviously, but you go to a site where a drone has hit You P people are scared. peopleople are very anxious. There was a one very big one in bang in the center of Moscow, but pretty near in a very kind of wealthy neighborhood And it caused a very big explosion. I know people who woke up in the middle of the night quite far away and heard it and U You so you get that you get that kind of anxiety. in the media aftermath, but also I've had a couple of times recently where people told me How scared they are. One was someone I know Russian Russian cameraman works another station. It was just we were just talking you how things recently and you just said, what, you know I woke up in the middle of the night last weekend to the sound of a drone buzzing past You know and you talked about how anxious he was and the other one was just someone I didn't know in the lift of our building And normally you know Russians say hello and goodbye when they get into the lift and leave. There's no chit chat in the middle of it But this was someone who did actually just out of nowhere, and there were other people in the lift just say, the drone attacks are really scary, aren't So there is this and that's that's strange And it really speaks to this's this anxiety that's building and discontent over those other things. Are the drone strikes now frequent? I mean, you know, in a week would you have several? Still infrequent in Moscow, but they're happening more used to be Every couple of months, maybe one on the outskirts. In them in May, it was much more frequent and in Moscow region, the area surrounding Moscow There was a very, very big or the biggest Ukrainian drone attack of the war so far over the weekend in mid May I think there's about a thousand drones in twenty four hours going into Russian territory, a lot of than in Moscow region And that's and as you say, as President Zelensky was saying, it's a way of bringing the war home. making people realize that consequences of Russia's invasion. and they're really's building up And and it's impossible to ignore now back Kremlin is acutely aware of that and you can see that. You mentioned there the economy. and we talked a little bit about the grocery prices and the economy contracting And while I think, you know, sometimes there's wishful thinking in the West when we hear these rumors circulating that, o, Russia's economy is collapsing. Well we haven't seen any such thing. In fact, it's done quite well given it's prosecuting this war that's expensive and has more than thirty thousand sanctions against Well the sanctioned economy in the world? Absolutely. you know, so exactly really important point But I would just help us understand on a day to day basis, know examples of like those grocery prices, like how much of a hike. know I saw a piece that you did about the number of businesses, something like two hundred fifty thousand businesses that have had to shut down, just humanize the kind of cost that this is having directly on the Russian people Okay, so food prices in January or February, the beginning of the year was cucumbers of the town including in the Russian press sl Th Cucumbers might laugh, but they're a real staple of the Russian diet. They're in all the salads and things. it's just like and that's year round They love cucumbers pickled, fresh United it there Insanely expensive. It's like five hundred rubles a kilo,' like five pounds a kilo. I can't remember exact figure, but it was something like fifty or one hundred percent increase in price, a really a real huge spike in price that was spikes in price in butter last year to the point where buser was being kept behind a locked cabinet in the supermarket. and stuff it was just getting so expensive. We talked a little earlier about how Britain is being perceived right now in Russia Talk us through that, you know, why Britain has become the sort of boogeyman or the bad guy in all of this. I interviewed the Russian ambassador here. and he sort of portrayed it as without Britain, you know Ukraine couldn't do what it's doing in terms of intelligence and the scale in which it has developed. its drone technology, for example Yeah, so so Britain is definitely public enemy number one. in Russia and that that's kind of rammed home on the state media state TV, news bulletins in papers constantly hearing the kind of Cmentators and propagandists saying let's just let's let's Breenor Pidious Albion, as it's called am among the kind of propagandists Um, and the reason for this is this kind of I mean, it's always kind of up there. as a figure of hate in the West, but that much more so it's been elevated to that kind of prime spot since the kind of contact with Americans since Donald Trump's returned to office, suddenly last year there was signs of this rapprochement. Everything's very friendly towards the U. S. and because they used to hold that spot They don't anymore. Vladimir Putin still has I think clearly of better relations repairing relations with the U.S. so it's to that and they need this kind of Bogy man because it's their whole narrative, right? They're not just locksed in a battle against Ukraine, It's the whole West because it's not a good look if Russia hasn't been able to beat this much t much smaller neighbour in four and a half years They need to tell the Russians lookook, it's not just Ukraine we're fighting, we're fighting the whole of the West And and it fits into this wider narrative that the West has never kind of respected Russia. They always want to undermine Russia. It's full of they're rusophobic and and Britain because of its all its support to Ukraine has put at the forefront of that narrative. But while that's the kind of official line and the kind of hatred we see in the papers and what we hear on the Tatei When you speak to people, normal everyday Russians, it's the opposite. There's a real real contrast. There's a real kind of Um affection for Britain and you see people we t shirts with a union jack on. You're in taxis and the radio stations are playing British music. There's a real love for the culture, the cuisine, there's a Harry Potter cafe that's open, there's God where you can kind of go and wear the sorting hat and have your Gryffindor milkshake or whatever it is. and there's you know, I went and took my daughters to see a performance of the Gruffalo last Christmas. And when Dame Maggie Smith died, there were flowers being left outside the British emmbassy, same when Lam Payne from One Direction det It was just kind of there was a kind of makeshift memorial there, pictures of him So there's this real disconnect between what the officials are saying and actually what the public feel. I mean, and when people hear me My family' speaking English You mean the lift or whatever in the playground or in the park people will come up and say, where are you from? You're from London? Oh wow We haven't been there for ages Really miss London L Yeah, love love London or talk about football and things like that So that extraordinary isn't what the official government line in many places, you know, what the government line is versus what actually the people are like and what they, you know are interested in or how they view something. Absolutely.'s and I think that That says a lot. I think that speaks to that kind of Um Weariness of the situation being of the isolation from the West at the official level Russia says, we don't need the West. We've got F friends. We've got the global majority is with us, the global South, Asia, we've got this great Great relationship with China now set in Moscow and St. Petersburg Um They miss that Western contact We're going to go to a quick break, Iva. and then when we come back, let's discuss my interview with President Zelenskyy How does a banana trigger a CIA backed coup Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world shaping forces hidden inside. This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow However we've been speaking a lot about the view from Russia, from Moscow, where you live with your family I'd like to pick up on this interview I did with President Volodyimy Zelensky. He was in London over the last few days. He met with the King, he met with the Prime Minister, he met with the French president was here, the German Chancellor was here effort to again put Ukraine situation and war back on the agenda when the International focus has been on the war in Iran. and to try and shore up some kind of not just obviously the support for Ukraine, but support to bring Russia to the negotiating table and how to put the E three together and build that coalition plus Ukraine But I just wanted to get your take on that interview and how from your perspective, living in Russia and the sort of things that you hear from there how Volotimy elenssky is perceived What I found interesting about my conversation was I raised that infamous letter that Volodyy M Zelensky sent to Putin an open letter where I described it as cheeky, but many have described it as quite insulting, Putin himself described it as rude. I sent a letter O letter because I don't know if you will read, you know or not. openen letter it means that he has to answer. us and what is important to his society because his society lives in some fantastic world that they didn't attack, that it's not their aggressive war that they're defending some Russians speaking people about. So I mean, it's not serious So u And that's why for me, it's very very important. to openly to share where we are And it's important they close the internet and a lot of different things and answer that we will not just silently die and we will respond and we will be strong and stronger each day day by day. I mean, first of all, I'd say the contontrast between Zens Davos at the beginning of the year. And the s a lens we saw in your interview and then on the steps of Downing Street is extraordinary Putin understands On when there is a Total pressure on him. when you're strong, when you're Answers are strong That's why We show that our drones will come to them citities I said to the city because we already did it during during long period of time, villages and etcetera wererespond to small cities. but they live in Sank Peterburg and they live in Moscow and they don't think what's going on in other cities of Russia. So we dried it to show them that we will be closer and closer and will bring back their war territory from where this war came to us. A Davos he was angry angry at and that was before the Iran warar had started. He was angry at the lack of support from Europe not putting their money where their mouth was kind of thing and this kind of almost ambivalence. Europe loves to discuss the future, but avoid taking action today, action that defines what kind of future we will have. And there was a perception that maybe you'd overstpp the mark there Um angry and frustrated. and I think and just he'd been grounded down, hadn't he But you tell me, I mean, what came across to me was just he was so he was so kind of Confident and buoyant, wasn't he? What did you think? Yeah, you know, either, it's just over a year since that incident in the Oval Office, where a lot of M elensk gotot a dressing downown from the Trump administration. You're gambling with World War three. You're gambling with World War three. He got on a flight from Washington and came straight to London and I met him at Stanstead. And we had a little round table and I chatted with him there He looked shocked and deflated, even though he was putting a very brave face on, but he looked rattled and a lot of uncertainty about where is this all going? And he was a man who was bruised And my question to him is, are you going to step down? for the sake of peace and for the sake of, you know getting the Americans engaged and Donald Trump engaged? He said, I'll do whatever it takes. You know, If I have to resign and step down, I will. brring the Russians to the table and that's just not going to happen thenen fast forward to September last year where he gained his confidence again But he was frustrated again with the Trump administration and he was much more critical ahead of Donald Trump's trip here to the UK And one of the reasons he wanted to do the interview then was to express that frustration with Donald Trump and the fact that he felt like an Alaska meeting had happened with Putin. Putin had been legitimized. And where had that left Ukraine Then you mentioned Davos and his anger at the West This time aroundound, it felt like a very different, Zelensky, upbeat, confident. I talked to him about the fact that they were making gains for the first time since twenty twenty three He was Trolling. Vladim put tal was talkaled about the internet outage you talked about Yeah. Yeah, he said what was he said? He said He said at least our guys on the front lines can get on Instagram and get on X and you know all of which is banned in Russia. and even more now teelegram as well, very very popular app in in Russia. And yeah, he's he' he's making these tos because he feels he's in a position to do so because Ukraine is causinguss Russia problems. acccording to Western defence analysts, they're the ones making these gains on the battlefield spoken about the the more frequent drone attacks that are deeper and deeper inside Russia And then about support from Europe He's not harring them anymore. He feels like he's They've got his back in it almost like, well, actually we're doing this pretty well on our own actually as well So yeah, that was really quite striking in terms of Vladimir Putin's response I thought that was very interesting. So so Zelensky timeed this open letter. I middle of this economic forum in St. Petersburg, a very big event for Vladimir Putin is flagship event. And each year has a Q and A with international news agencies. it dropped in the middle of that It wasn't asked about in that meeting. So were people at that point scrambling around reading their phones? or I don't think they had I don't think they had phones in the meeting. I'm not sure they were allowed them. So there wasn't asked in the meeting in the Q and A It was then, but then Putin had his keynote speech to the forum, to the delegates, thousands of delegates and a Q and A there with a moderator who is from an Indian television network. I think we all know those questions are agreed on in advance. Um and if he hadn't have addressed the letter. It was the talk of not just Western press but also Russian press F in that morning, they were asked about it U M Pkv, he was asked about it in an interview by a Russian news agency. just sorry, just to interject. Russian press still feel comfortable reporting this stuff, talking about it, respond know that kind of open letter, maybe publishing it in their publications? Is that something that's? Yeah, of course. I mean ye, they still report it. They report it, but they say, look at the insolence of the Ukrainian leader, he thinks he can push Putin around kind of thing. That's the tone Um, and and then they'll chase a reaction from the Kremlin. The Kremlin responded that morning, saying Vladimir Putin has been made aware of the letter He's likely to comment And then sure enough He did. It was the first question in this Q and A. As I say, it would have looked Vy odd if he hadn't because because we know the questions are greedy it would have looked like told the person not to ask about it. that's a kind of sign of weakness But then the response was very surprising, I thought, because Normally, you know he's not someone who responds to ultimatums and threats. he's the one. the shots, right And normally he just bats it away doesn't give it air timee But he talked about this letter for about ten minutes and he started by saying a letter that he's just kind of made aware of.ust just just skim read it But then he went on to talk about it for ten minutes. he had and he had lots of taunts prepared of his own. So one His answer had been prepped, you so he was aware of the comment about his age. He'd had a retort ready for that, saying it's not how old you are, it's how well you do the job that matters he kept calling Zelensky the author of the letter, never referred to him once by by name, and he used the term author of the letter about five times and he also Uh, uh had a jibe. about Zelensky's outfits. You can be a wittchy guy, but I think these kind of lines would have been would have been prepped before. And I think that betrays this uneasiness. right now at this prevailing narrative that Ukraine has the upper hand because because of all the reasons we've been discussing. And Russia wants to reclaim that narrative. put Zelensky in his place before the audience at home because it's a bad look if after four and a half years You know, people start to question, well, hang I' We werere supposed to just This is a special military operation. Why are we now being Bomden Hit by drones. Yeah, someone a military analyst said to me, you know, we often say that Russia is moving at a snail's pace. but if you put a snail on the border in twenty twenty two, it would have reached Kyiv by now. So it's a bit of an inc the snail. Apparently, I don't know if that snail would have got there in four and a half years. But you know he was trying to make the analogy of They expected this to be quick and swift and fast. inststead, we've got a Ukraine that's developed all this technology in the process may have benefited in some way from this war, in some way, you know, given they've changed the nature of warfare. know, I'm curious to know, you've talked about the fact that he referenced that letter and talked about the author of the letter does he normally refer to Zelensky other than kind of what we hear usually you know, the Nazis who are running that It's that. He he doesn't talk about he doesn't mention Zelensy, doesn't say presidentZelensky because he doesn't see him as a legitimate president. always refers to A any opportunity when hes asked about the lenskeep the fact that he has Um an election in when he was supposed to. And we know that because obviously there's martial law in Ukraine following the invasion, which means you can't hold elections under it U But he uses that as a dig and it's a kind of way to say, look he's a dictator. He's overstayed his his legitimate mandate Whereas we have elections here, we ninety nine percent of. Well, we all know that the the outcome was a kind of foregone conclusion in the Russian presidential election in twenty twenty four, but he used it to try and tell the Russian people We're a normal society. They're the one. They're this regime autocracy dictatorship. and on the kind of gains, I think that That's another thing I think Putin is aware of now because it's he's made his goal The stated goal of the whole thing, right to Russians was to protect Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine, then they annexed these four territories early on And now he's saying You know, if they're somethinging to freeze the lines where they are, whichich is what I ask them do. And and that's always the topic of these peace talks Well, that's not that's a hard sell to say look this we won guys, look, we got we got Lkansk and eighty five percent of Dunesk too say to not even get all of the Don bass is It's very hard to say, look, this is a victory because You know they were already eating Donbass when they started You know, and it's an And this war has lasted longer than than the Soviet Union's fight against the Nazis in in the Second World War. It's lasted longer. and in that time Starling went from Moscow to Berlin Putin's forces and yet to take all of the Db So its it's hard it's harder to sell. as a victory. so he needs he needs to have something to show for from this. otherwise people will start to ask, I think What's it all been for given all the cost? Has it been worth it Iever I just want to ask you anythingthing surprised you about Russia or the Russians? you know, did you go in there with a type of you know sort of a perception of how you'd cover conflict and just living in Russia and sort of covering it versus where you are now two years on There's an element of surprised at just how little has shifted in the Russian position Nothing. When I first arrived, it was just two months afterwards, Vladimir Putin had a big speech at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs where he kind of set out his conditions for a ceasefire you clear out of those four territories You renounce any kind of ambitions to join NATO and then we'll S fun next day And they just stuck to that They've stuck to that repeatedly. The one thing that's remained consistent is Russia's redlines They haven't actually compromised or offered any sign of compromise all, at least in public. I think that's quite quite amazing, still he still appears extremely confident that Russia's Pior resources will win the day and that will grind Ukraine resistance and resilience down eventually. and the time is on his side the conversations I'm having with diplomats and and lists is the