Evaluating Potential Trade Scenarios

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Cinic Kids is a where cert by one c three nonprofit This Zach Lo show, I am in a scorching San Antonio, Texas. The NBA finals are about to start. the Nicks and the Spurs M to kill. My old friend, he also just arrived in San Antonio. We're going to give you hopefully the best most in depth preview of this series you can get. We're going to look at both sides of the floor, X as it Os, who's Wbonyama guarding? Who is going to guard Wbonyama? What lineups are going to be key? The Mitchell Robinson factor, how big of a deal is that Can the Kicks underdogs again in the finals? Can they finally pull this off and break the fifty three year no championship streak. We're going to make predictions. I hope I'm going to force M to make a prediction and talk everything in the finals, the matchup, the X's and O's, the adjustments, the adjustments, the stakes, the big picture stuff, the fun stuff, all of it. bothoth these cities are going to be absolutely on fire. What a series we have in store. And then Andrew Schleck from the Down to Dunk podcast over at the athletic. He's their Thunder guy. He's in Oklahoma City. We're going to talk about the fallout Thunder losing to the Spurs in the conference finals losing four I'm sorry losing eight of their twelve meetings to the Spurs this season Is this a seismic change? Do they just have no answer for Wemen Yama? What the hell happened at Chad Homegrid? What are they going to do in the offseason? Is it going to be a quiet one? Is it going to be a loud one? Is it going to be a crazy one? We'll talk all things Thunder, the would be dynasty. that has already been interrupted. That's all coming up on the Zach Glowh. To the Zach Low show. The NBA finals are here. twenty eight teams are gone. two are left. and boy boy. what a fantastic finals matchup we have The New York Kicks attempting to end a fifty three year title drought And if they do it would just about break New York City in half against the San Antonio sppurs and the most teigenic M cururiosity inducing superstar that the League has had since young Lebron James and Victor Webinyama already here crying, weeping, hugging for joy upon vanquishing The would be Dynastic Oklahoma City Thunder Mo tokel My excitement level as you can see is a fifteen out of ten I am in San Antonio. I would like game one to be tomorrow. It's not tomorrow I am afraid of how insane New York City is going to be when this series comes to New York. could not be more hyped about this series between Weemby and the young Hungry Spurs and a NX team that has found magic Real magic in the playoffs ten out of ten matchup, fifteen out of ten excitement I might be drunk right now. You'll never know. It's just gonna be awesome. Mo. Welcome to San Antonio Yeah, I'm in San Antonio to. I'm hyped up. I'm ready to go. I You could see it in the streets as I in the lift on my way to the hotel seeing all the Every street store has signs and everybody's pumped up. my my lift driver had a sppurs jersey on like everybody's ready to roll with all that. My only thing This would be a little bit more fun if Game O was in New York. No, I think I think we get to wait. We get to wait I don't even think it matters if it's two O sppurs. I think I don't think the vbe will be any different than it or one one and you know, Nicks would have home court. God forbid, it's two hundred Nicks. I mean, the statue of Liberty might already be torn down if that's the case. I will say that I was in New York yesterday on Sunday with my family. We did just say, Hey, hey, finals are starting. There's no gam tonight. I don't have Bill's podcast tonight because we did Saturday Let's have a nice family day. We went into Tribecca, played mini golf. We went to a nice playground there. I defended my family mini golf championship which is now I'm undefeated And the amount of people wearing Nick stuff is like nothing I've ever seen before in New York The amount of people shouting go nicks at each other at me, at anybody wearing nick stuff that they see is unlike anything I've ever seen before. And here's You know, M. fifeen twenty years ago There was a small I'm not proud of it. There was a small part of me that would have been a little snobby about like, oh, here come the bandwagon fans. How do you even know, you know, who Mitchell Robinson is? Can you tell me about Kat's career trajectory to this moment? Here you go, jumping on the bandwagon. And I'm here to tell you that in my soft old age I've completely changed Welcome to all the Fair Weather fans, because you know what Fair Weather fans are truly, for the most part, There are some real newbies. and by the way Welcome in newbies. Here's this awesome sport that's going to stay awesome. You're going to learn all sorts of stuff about it. It's going to be fun Fair weather fans are Fans whose love of the team is still there It's just latent. It's just been pushed down by the team sucking by adulthood and other commitments that you have to make as a normal human being. And I say this Fr my own perspective as a Mets fan I became a fairwather Mets fan. I lost touch with the team. otherther things became more important to me. I had a wife, I had a kid, I had a career, the Mets were up and down and mostly down. And when I had some time again and the Mets became good again, I got back into it. I'm sticking into it. Doesn't make me less of a fan. It's just it was always in my soul. So welcome everybody into this series because this has a chance to be a doozy Mo. I will get into picks at the end But I am just so excited for this matchup. because both of these teams The Spurs were an elite team start to finish and they have best player in the NBA or we just ready to say it out loud now and certainly the one that casual fans are just like, what is this? What can you is he been like this for a while? Is it just How tall is he What's he listed at? Like everyone's curious and this next team has just obliterated the playoffs and found Nirvana and it's it's real It's spectacular, it's sustainable And I just can't wait to see what happened. Where should we even start, Mo I mean, I think we have to start just on the most important question, which is You know, how are the Kicks going to defend Wempi Right? I think that's where the starting point of this whole series is It's a defensivevent for the Kicks. It's the offensive event for the furs. And where do we like to me, that's the question one When I was prepping for the finals, that was the first thing I was looking at was studying, making sure I was watching it keeping a track on all that stuff had to rewatch a game because I felt so focused on that I kind of missed everything else that happened in the game But that's how important this is going to be you know, how do you defend Wemby if you're the Kicks. and I think that's something we need to keep an eye on And I think that's the starting point, Zach. For me, that's the starting point of the series Well, let's just start there then with Viictor Weedyama, who is the nexus of the series on both ends of the floor. because Conventional stuff. either doesn't work or is just a non starter for both teams on both ends of the floor If you want to start Spurs offense fine Project number one is we've got to keep him away from the rim. Good luck. his wingspan is like a thousand feet and the sppurs have gotten better and better just throwing the ball in the vicinity at the rim Um I would expect cat to start the series guarding Wembinyama, but as many people have noted, Anonobbe has been one of the best Victor Weminyama defenders in the league and has guarded him a lot in three regular season matchups. the Nicks fared well in those matchups two and one They won the cup, the Pouaned eater, Kia Sprite, Taco Bell Emirates Cup U they and they beat them in March in MSG and what was one of their best performances. It' not I mean before whatever's happening now happened of of the season Um And Anonobi was able to guard Weminyama in a lot of those matchups because the Nicks pretty safe hiding place for Carl Anthony Towns. Like if the big is not going to guard the big, he's got to guard somebody in a lot of those games Most of those three games it was Harrison Barnes, who was starting over Julian Champanne That was a seismic change the Spurs made, a gutsy one and one that has un really unlocked their team in part because it really made it more complicated for teams to put their big men on anybody other than Wen Binyama and and the sppurs want opppposing centers on Memedyama because of their difficulty in tracking him around the floor That option is gone at the start of games for the Kick. So it's why I wouldn't be surprised if they just started traditionally and put Kat on Webinyama whichich by the way, would have the benefit of sometimes Wbonyama would be stuck on cat the other end of the floor. And I think if as many times as the Kicks find that, they should go to cat pick and pops and just try to get open threes, try to get pump and go drives, try to maybe draw some fouls on Wenbonyama U If they could go the other way and just start with Anidob onem right away And then the question is where Do you put cat I don't really know what the answer is. I don't think Visll's a great hiding spot. I don't think Fox is a great hiding spot. I don't think Champagne is a great hiding spot. Although that's where the Thunderhead Chat Stefan Castle has proven like it's not going to really work that well on me as D Donvan Klingon. So what would you do if you were the Kicks I think I would start out and I kind of I have it in my notes. I would start with Cat on Wendby And it's not and for everything you said, but the other thing too that I think matters Also is like, I think OG's the a the hole for them in terms of defending Wemby at some point But to me, I don't want to show my card that early. I don't want to play that hand that early. like we've seen in important games like for like Hawai, for example, may not guard the most important guy for two or three quarters But then fourth quarter, we switch Koiano. And then it's the whole thing where it throws sort of a little bit discombobulation makes it a little bit more difficult. Now the question that does become Extremely difficult is where do you put Cat at that point because then you have to figure out how you're going you're going to deal with it. I still put him on Champenne in that instance, but I start with Kat on Wemby and the most important thing and this is going to be critical for Kat. He cannot pick up a dumb quick foul. Well I was going to say if he starts off wheny, what is the over under on foul one. I'm going to set it at I and I'm being kind of serious. I'm going to set it on two minutes and fifteen seconds into game one. Yeah, I mean, that's it's and to be honest, like That's a hard call. likeike that's a pretty good number for him to pick up one, especially if Web comes out of the gate playing with force and I think puts a lot of pressure on them, which I think is going to happen, especially here in San Antonio So I think like for me, it's really going to come down to cat being extremely disciplined ' I We don't know the situation with Mitchell Robinson, whether he plays or not. He's got the pinky. It's, you know, they they announced the surgery on it all of that, but We'll see if he plays game one or not But I don't want to have to make the switch too early or too quick and have to go to OG right away and then switch and put cat on Champagne because then that changes all my matchups because I'd start out You know, with OG on Castle. R off the bat. And I think that's if you have to start shifting your lineups early to protect Kat because as important as Kat is defensively on defending Weemby, you touched on it already. They need him on the offensive end to pull Wemby out of the paint you know, in the situations where they get cross match and switches and things like that. So they need to make sure they're in that position. And I think it's critical for them They can't just not Pick up a dumb fowl in the first two and a half three minutes swiping down on a rebound or something like that. And I think that's going to be really important for them, but you got to start, I think, the smartest thing is cat on Wemy. That's what they did Really for the start of every game that they've played unless I'm mistaken, but like that's how they handled it to start and I think that's what you do and cats spin Good, like not great but That's pretty good That's been fouls aside. Kat has been very good defensively in the playoffs danger of putting cat on champne It's not so much that like Champagnei explodes alough he did have eleven threes in one game against the next this year, the one game this first one. Um It's not even that the spurs like suddenly run more their offense around champagne, picking and poping and flaring. like I think that's a trade off the Nick should actually live with. It's that if cats on champanne Um Where is Brunson And and the sppurs are obviously going to hunt Brunson a lot O defense withith Castle, who's a bully with Fox tryed to get him switched ont to Fox and then run pick and roll Vll iss not a particularly great matchup, although I think I think you could stash him on Visll a little bit here and there. He has guarded Champani for the most part in this matchup And I mentioned Fox and you mentioned An and Ob on Castle. I think Castle and Fox are just going to see a combination of all three Nicks wings all the time. Like it's just the Nicks I don't think they are going to be that particular about whether Hart guuards Fox the OG guuards Fox or Bridges guards, Fox, all they've all done it. S with Castle. But that's the challenge is like where is Brunson going to be located. I will give the Kicks have gotten a lot better defensively at Protecting Brunson And some of the ways that that will manifest in this series is whenever possible, go under screens for Fox and Castle As I've mentioned many times, the sppurs are unbelievably smart about making that way more difficult than it sounds. They have a million tricks up their sleeve. Castle in particular is just a bulldozer on the way to the rim. But that's one of them. And just Brunson hedging and recovering. and the rotations behind him not over committing showing enough help that that the offense is indecisive trying to trying to get the ball to Brunson guy or work a four on three or whatever. Nicks have just gotten really good at all that And I'm Kat You know, I think honestly one of the landmark series of Kat's career was I think it was two seasons ago when the wolves swept Phoenix in the first round And Kat Guarded Duran prettyretty much the entire series guarded him pretty well. He's actually a pretty good guarding down perimeter defender in just terms of staying down doing the simple things. like I actually think he could buy them some minutes guarding Castle. I don't think that's a terrible matchup. I think he could buy them some minutes guarding Vll Um All of that is going to be very interesting. I don't worry so much about keeping the OG card in my back pocket because They know it's coming. They've seen it already it might be my best option anyway and I'm going to go to it in game one. The minute Keldon Johnson is in the game or Barnes is in the game. Yeah. they're going to put cat on those guys and cross match that way. But look there's no great answer for me. no team has figured out how to keep him away from the rim for a full two consecutive games And when he makes his threes, forget about it, I mean, he's just that good of a player. But those are some of the te what else should we talk to Oh Mitchell Robinson I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Mitchell Robinson could swing the entire NBA finals And that sounds like a little much from a guy who plays fifteen to twenty minutes a game less than the playoffs because he can't hit a godamn free throw The more I watch the spurs You need a little bit if you're going to score enough to survive against this one man wrecking crew of a defense and that's not to say they don't have other guys, but Wemby is the keystone. He's half the arch. He's everything You need a lot of things. I think you need a lot of shooting. For the most part, the Nicks, I think, have enough shooting, particularly with Kat at the five. One ingredient you've got to have, the more I watch them, the more I'm convinced. this is going to help Michell Robinson in free agency. It's going to help Tim Lord in free agency. It's going to help guys like this I think you need to have a center in your rotation who is an elite offensive rebounder and also an elite lob catcher who can do both of those things at a super high level who can make Weemby at least think If I challenge this shot and I don't get it. Is someone on behind me going to be able to punish me And that's going to like there will be five shots a game where he doesn't go for it because he's scared of that guy or five shots he goes for and maybe doesn't get and that guy actually punishes him. And Mitchell Robinson is the single best offensive rebounder in the entire NBA and an elite elite lob catcher to the point that some of New York's best offense all season, including in this run has been when cat rests just spam the Bruns and Robinson pick and roll. They get loobs, brridges Robinson, they get loobs, they get floaters, they get everything out of it I don't think it's an exaggeration to say like it might swing my pick. It might swing the entire finals, whether Mitchell Robinson can play and play effectively with this injury. It might be a little hyperbolic, but only in my opinion, only a little. mayaybe you disagree No, I think it's to degree maybe a little bit hyperbolic, but it's not disagree. Don't be like bring it then No, I just think the more important thing about that is just like we've seen this for his They've gotten crushed. on the offensive glass Really we saw by Mitchell Robinson by Mitchell Robinson. We saw that it's in in the NBA Cup. I think they had eleven offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter, I think of the NBA cup game alone. and I think that that changed everything for them with everything that you had. No I' forgotten about that game by the way. I forgot how heavy heavily Tyler Colek was involved. when I went back and watched that was like W Tyler Coleck there was like they found something off the bench with this guy and like I thought I thought we were about to get a lot more of him after that. I thought we were going to get a whole run of a lot of Tyler Colek through the course of the season. But I think the thing for me back to the Mitchell Robinson point because you're right, like Wemy has to decide Am I going to come over and try to contest the shot or am I gonna make sure he doesn't get the the rebound. And I think the thing for me with the sppurs and this really caught my eye in game seven They completely flipped the offensive rebounding numbers. in the first half, they were getting cooked by the Thunder, right? Like that's how the Thunder were really in that game. And then in the second half, you obviously can tell in halftime, that was a stress point of You know, Mitch Mitch Johnsy, excuse me went in there and just said we can't let them get another offense sp. Now they got one But that was it for the rest of the second half. And I think that's the thing right gang rebound, all that. I think there's going to be an emphasis from the Spurs understanding of, hey, we need Weenby to contest these shots. We need Weenby to get blocks. We need him to kind of put that pressure on them, but we have to put a body on Mitchell Robinson on Josh Hart on all these guys who are crashing and make sure we finish these possessions with rebounds. I feel like with the sppurs, that's going to be a focal point for them And I think going into game one, we'll see it right away Just a couple of statistical notes before we turn to the the nitty gritty of the sppurs offense. These are two of the best rebounding teams in the entire league and that's going to be obviously a pivot point. The Nicks were seventh and offensive rebounding rate and obviously much better when Robinson plays the sppurs were tenth And they're two of the top four teams in defense weveerate. the Kicks were first in the regular I'm sorry the Spurs were first in the regular season. the Kicks were fourth Um Spurs were also an extremely low turnover team. They were fifth lowest turnover rate on offense. That's jumped a little bit in the playoffs. That's what happens you play the Thunder And the Kicks were kind of average at forcing turnovers. On the other end, the Kicks were a pretty low turnover team themselves and the spurs were actually twenty eighth in turnover rate forced on defense, which surprised me a little bit. So the Kicks probably need to win the turnover battle given those statistical indicators to win the series U And just, you know, fun trivia Num numbers one and two in corner threees attempted per game in this series. So the corners are going to be an interesting little battleground. But let's go back to the spurs offense then like what's another wrinkle matchup? Like what else should we be looking at in your eyes when when the sppurs have the ball I think the most important thing is watching how do they utilize the offball movement. Like when Robinson's in the game, right? Like the way they're going to deploy Wby is going to be different. I think than the way they use use one cat or OG's in the game. I think you'll see more ball screens when it's those guys with Robinson. you can kind of play a little bit more on the perimeter. Look at that wide pin down opportunities right there for Wenby to kind of come off the wide pin down That's usually going to be a situation where Robinson's either going to end up sagging and trying to go underneath the screen. It might open up a flare for a three fromr Weemby that's going to open up curls. It's going to open up a lot of different things for him. But he's going to have a little bit more space to operate. So for me just on the offensive end How they match up is how the spurs are going to run, right? Like when they have Kat on the floor or OG guardening him, I think you're going to see a lot of heavy pick and roll, try to put them in bad spots and sort of force them into different situations and have him free up on the roll. You know, Kat can get hung up on these picks sometimes and get lost and that opens up the lob over the top for Wby I think you got to find the different stuff that they can work in. you're going to see offball movements into getting when beyond to the elbow I think personally, I like it when it starts from the bottom and Weby works his way up instead of him trying to come in from the top into the elbow and fight for position. I think there's going to be a lot of interesting areas for me of where does Weemby end up getting to operate offensively depending on who's on him? And I think that's kind of a thing that the Kicks need to also kind of focus on. It's not just we need to get him out of the paint, but it's making sure he doesn't have space What a test for OGN and Oi I mean, one of the very best defensive players in the entire world Sensational season littleittle bit of an injury blip in the playoff. he seems to have recovered completely from that. just a sensational playoff run. We saw in the first round that Wemby as he's gotten more forceful, more aggressive more decisive rolling to the rim Putting wings on him It just it allows him to live at the basket in most cases, Like JWub started game one. against guarding him for the most part and he just lived at the rim and then they switched it up right away in game two put Hartenstein on him, guarding him with bigigs And he had to work a little harder to get back up to the rim frequency that he was at in game one and still never really got there Um OG is a Bigger, better defender than JW by a little bit. att least JW is really good Um And the thing that Weby's gotten good at is like, okay, so let's say you put Heart on Fox and OGN noy on me and you're going to switch picking rolls and that's the whole thing, right? Well whenemby's gotten good at just like you're going to switch I know're going switch.'m gonna lock you on top of me, roll to the rim. they're just going to throw it up to me or you're going to just crash all your guys ono me and a three is going to be open. Like it's just going to be interesting to see Has he advanced Anadobbe is like the final boss of wings defending Wbanyama And if the Knicks are going to win the series, He's going to do enough to at least make it a fair fight Um, I just I can't wait to I just can't wait for all this. Let's take a quick break and then'll flip. Oh, go, go ahead. you I got one more thing J just on that specific specific thing about heart switching onto him That happened in the NBA cup and they just threw a lob, Weby just reverse dunked it. Like it was nothing. likeike that's the kind of stuff that you're going to get when you have heart ending up switching on to him. So I think those are the things that again, you got to worry about if you're the Kicks And a lot of it with Weby is just, you know I don't want to say that the three point shot is the easy way out for him because he's playing so goddamn hard over so many minutes. and I cannot even begin to imagine the level of fitness and toughness mentally. you have to have to do any part of what he does He is going to have to dig deep on and like all right, maybe this isn't the time for me to shoot this three or this eighteen footer or I have the ball at the nail and I could shoot this eighteen footer and I'll probably make it forty percent of the time. But man, my team really needs a bucket or a point, a free throw, something. and I know on one pivot move away from reaching up into a like a half hook, almost a lay upp and getting fouled and The sppurs are at their best when he's able to summon Everything he has in him. to make that happen and just want to a little bit more to the rim That's why I love I loved everything about Weenby's reaction to winning the conference finals. Yes. I loved how he said He's discovering something that he has inside of himself, a level of endurance and toughness and physicality that he frankly didn't even know he had and he wants to feel it over and over again because that's That's what it takes, particularly when you're seven five and people's default against you is going to be, we're going to just beat you up I love the emotional reaction. I love every time he cries. I don't care about it. In fact, you know what I thought about, Mo Remember that It was like seven or eight years ago at the women's Final four when Gino Oriema had his infamous just like, I'm going to get on my soapbox and talk about how I want players who try really hard all the time and are legitimately happy for their teammates. And he talked about how trying hard and giving full effort has kind of become like uncool in some circles Um And like to the point that try hard has become an insult. likeike oh, he's just a try hard guy. And trying hard looks ugly sometimes. Like when you're chugging it full at full speed full effort like you're going to make funny faces, your body's going to do fun stuff, funny stuff. You're going like fall and fail and it's going to be embarrassing sometimes. It's even like I can see my daughter and her friends going through this when they play sports and I try to tell her like Trying really hard is a really cool thing. likeike it's a cool thing to do and I showing emotion like that and being honest and vulnerable about I love I love all of it. And I thought of that Gino Oriema thing when he talked about just pure effort all the time and not giving a fuck about how it looks or what anybody thinks. Yeah, it's the coolest thing. I mean, we got into the point where it looked cool to not care. Right? And I think, you know, and and these guys cared by the way. likeike let's just be honest, all the players do care But like, hey, if it looks they make it look so easy. it's as if it's effortless and stuff like that. And I get stuck in that sometimes too. But it was cool to just see him. I remember what he did in the Clipper game when they came back in the regular season and he was crying off of that game. likeike it's fun to watch him emotionally invested in all of these things in the wins in the losses. one he's pissed off, one he's You know, when he's happy and enjoying the enjoying the fruits of it all We need to normalize it again, man. L we need these guys to kind of show that outward emotion. I love every bit of it All right, let's take a break after this loveve fest, this emotional therapy session we haveve just had and we'll talk about What the hell the Kicks are going to do on offense against Victkor Webinyama This episode is brought to you by MicLobe Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. The NBA finals are here and every time the finals roll around, all the memories start to flow into my brain. LeBronze block on Andrew Gadal, I was there. I had a perfect ankle on it. I almost had a heart attack on Fz Row. 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Th these teams were tied for third in offensive efficiency in the regular season. The Nicks have ascended to a different planet on offense in the regular season Let's talk about how they're going to attack the single greatest defensive force the league has seen in a long time and we're not far from saying ever at this point with what Weenby is doing. Um, I would expect The normal thing that a lot of teams do against the Nicks and that dispers have done against the Nicks and that's for Victim women Yama to guard slash notot guard Josh Hart and play a one man zone and put wings on cat and try to switch the Brunson Cat pick and roll and just take them out of all of that. Now what the matchups are is is interesting. I personally like Fox guarded Brunson more than I thought in the regular season I didn't think he looked particularly up to that and I would try to avoid that match upp at the Spurs. What I would probably do is put Castle if I'm going to put Wenbey on heart and I think that is the way they'll start. We'll see Wbey onond Cat plenty wheny on Mitchell Robinson, for sure. If I'm going to start We beyond Hart and just sayve Rom and play zone, like heart is seen over and over again in the playoffs in regular season I'll put Castle on Brunson U Champagne on bridges. All right, I'm sorry, fox on bridges, and Visll on cat Yeah and Fox on Bridges and Champanneiana, whoever I'm from An adobbe, I guess I want I want I want to start with Castle on Brunson. The sell on cat is not great and Kats going to have opportunities to post up in this series and that's sort of the flip side of the Harrison Barnes champanneis switch out the spurs are made as they have gotten smaller and this is a matchup or that that could actually hurt them a little bit Um But that's how I would match up and that's how I expect them to match up. And then Castle on Brunson is a fascinating matchup. I mean, what a test for Jaylen Brunson And then, you know, you switch and you put Castle on to Cat to sell on the prise. That's what I would do if I were Mitch Johnson, it doesn't matter what I think They could surprise us by just saying, hey, we're going to save that card and we're going to open with Webenyama on Kat, even if it's just for five possessions to throw you off course. But obviously we're going to see a lot of that And I did think it was notable that in that march game Josh Hart set the most ball screens he's ever set in a game in the NBA. And it was one way the Kicks coped with, okay, if you're putting your big guy on Josh Hart and not Kat Well, Josh Hard is the, I guess worst shooter in our starting five. We're going to treat him like a non shooter. We're going to play him as if he's a non shooter and make him a roller and surround him with shooting. And they actually got an a rhythm with that against the sppurs, particularly in that game in March. That's obviously going to be like the biggest cat and mouse game the series for the Nick offense. Do you do you think we'll see that right off the bat think so just because I think Brunson is so important for them offensively that I think you put Castle on him right away to kind of set the tone and pick up full court, press it. makeake it hard for him. and you know how it'll go. They'll have somebody else bring the ball up and then it'll get to Brunson eventually. But that opens up the opportunity for Castle to play in denials. I think heart is going to be huge in this series because like you said, it's not just the ball screens, but it's If Wenby's not going to guard him, he has to hit his threes. We saw what it looked like in game one in the Eastern conference finals where he wasn't making his shots. Now of course they've added shambit in and everything changed now we'll talk about that. We'll talk about little shambit machine that's happening. we're going to get to these things, but like I think the important thing right there is how hard playing is going to be a big deal for the Kicks offensively. Right. But I think more importantly is, you know, how will the Kicks handle the pressure from the spurs because I think they're going to pick up full. I think they're going to pressure them early on, make them work and try to get into them as much as possible. I mean He's not Brun is not the same as Say, but it's a similar test in the sense of like the isolation and having to be on top of everything. Now Brunson's a different sort of challenge for Castle and the craftiness and the way that he plays and the the moves that he's capable of making. So I think it's going to be a fun cat and mouse just between the two of them But I'm fascinated to see how the Kicks are going to work and get off ball I think for me that the key for them offensively is let's get Brunson off ball and get him back to the ball and open it up from there. and I you know, we saw it with Kat getting the catches at the elbow and going going operating out of that because I think he might have to be the main facilitator. If Wemby's not going to be on him He might be the guy that you facilitate and run your offense through, especially if it's a Visll or champanney that's starting out on him. you might need to go to that. And I think that'll open stuff up. and you could still use hard as the screener for Brunson. It opens up lanes and opportunities for everything that goes through it. It's going to be a really fun sort of chess match between these two coaches in terms of how do they handle these things and mix up their matchups as they go through everything Well, and this is the power of women Yama and how he's like nobody we've ever seen before because playing a one man zone with your best friend prrotector is not a novel concept Um I think what the Spurs have discovered is He's so fast and so long and so determined that you can get away with him playing that way against more lineups in different lineups than you you would think to wit L this idea of, okay, we'll bring Josh Hart into the pick and roll. You know, I'm going to talk about Andrew Select about the Thunder and Ched Holgren You had do you bring Ched Holgrren into the pickking role of Weemb's on him Weby doesn't have to cooperate in that. The Spurs don't have to cooperate in that. As soon as Josh Hart goes into a pick and roll, Weby can just tag out And I'm going to stay here in the corner and if it's Mhill Bridges, okay, he's a more dangerous shooter. I don't care. I'm Victor Weminyama. OGian and ad Obe, He might be the most dangerous corner three shooter in the league. That's a different ball game. But I can cover so much space so fast that you can't manipulate Victor Weminyama in the ways that you can manipulate every other big man who's ever tried this gambit They don't have to drag him in to the Now sometimes they will and I thought the Thunder particularly in game five. found some ways to coax him up the floor a little bit when he was in that one man zone, like clear his side of the floor completely of just just two guys. everyone else is over on the other side. So he kind of has to defend in the pick and roll. So there's and I think that even applies to like you mentioned Shamit One of the big factors in this series is going to be Who does Victor Gard when they put five shooters on the floor, when they flip shamot or who do some McBride or whoever in the Josh Hartspot And that's troubling for any big man. but I don't think the response is going to be, well, now we just has to guard cat, you know, but there's no other option for us. Sometimes he'll guard cat because maybe that's working, maybe that feels good. I think the spurs have gotten more daring and have been rewarded for it by just saying, We'll still park them in the corner and just, you know, if Mc Kill Bridges is over there You know, we'll figure that out ifadobial. He's Victor W Medama. And I don't think it's going to be as simple as go five shooters and he guards Kat and now our offense is opened up. I don't think it's going to be that simple All that said, I think the Kicks are ready for this. I the biggest reason for Nick's optimism is that The Kicks have seen Even though they haven't seen a defender like Wimbinyama They've seen so many different kinds of defenses against them and particularly against heart and against cat. switching the Brunson Cat pick and roll, roaming off heart, whatever it is that they are in such a rhythm with all the different answers to those questions. You mentioned starting Brunson off the ball Even okay, fine. you're going to switch the Brunson cat pick and roll They know that ahead of time and they'll they'll run it. And Kat will lock the guy on his back who switches ono him. They'll swing it over to Josh Hart on the wing and Josh Hart will hit Kat on the roll and like they'll get your defense and. They are just so They are ready to answer the question before you even ask it And they're in such a good rhythm with everybody touching the ball and everyone getting the defense in a blender And this blender is the hardest one to beat in the league because of the guy at the backline of it and he's going to beat you can do all sorts of fancy shit and everyone touches it twice and cuts and then it doesn't matter. But I think the Nicks have a lot of are just ready for this challenge and part of it is The creativity they've shown against a defense that is not going to give them any easy answers. Like I said, like the shamit all shooting lineup is going to be big in this series But I just wouldn't assume if I were a Ns fan that when we play that the spurs are going to suddenly just play traditional defense only with Victor Weminyama No, they need to see that. They need to see what it looks like and then see what their defense looks like against that and how that's going to operate. You know, I agree with you in the sense of the Nicks have seen everything that can be thrown at them. Nothing new was coming their way in all this. Also I would say it works the other way too with the sppurs. they're not going to see anything brand new with that it's just different people and different names involved in it. I think the challenge for the Ns two is just how good the spurs are in their rotations. It's not just Wemby on the one step and he's already kind of covered the rotation that he needs to make. But it's the other guys that are firing out of the the situations and where they need to be and chase somebody off the line and funnel them into WP. And that's I think that where we're going to see some real interesting stuff there. But I think for the Spurs early on at least Go ahead Go do your go do Let's see what this looks like No need for us to panic right away and kind of figure out what can we do against this or you know, or we have to change against this or or throw our hands up and live with it. I think that the beauty of the Nixo And I think this is something that Mike Brown needs, you know, I think we've talked about it before But just them changing their offense. completely on the fly through the course of the playoffs and adding another variable. They didn't have this last year. Last year it was all Brunson isolation, pick and roll. He had to create everything. Now they have different things they can go to as a playmaker and operator from there. They run different actions for OG, run different stuff for Michael Bridges. There's diversity in what they can do. And I think that makes them so difficult to defend. I'm really going to be interested to see What offense do they start out in And what do they end in? you know, and how do they kind of work their way through their options with everything they go through because yeah, the spurs are going to take some stuff away and there's going to be some stuff that there The Kicks are going to be able to hit them on Obviously the most important thing is they need to keep shooting their threes and making them at the high clip that they've been able to. to keep that floor spread and make it so that it's difficult for Weby, makeake Weby have to be like I want to stay in the paint, but I need to come contest that. And then that opens up opportunities, opens up offensive rebounds. everything that we've talked about earlier. I think all that stuff comes into play. It's going to be really a fascinating sort of study to see how this sort of works itself out while we're going through at least game one And what a moment for Jelen Brunson who is already the most beloved Nick since Patrick Ewing with one title put himself in a historic stratosphere that I'm not even sure he and his people understand yet what would happen if he's the best player on the first Nicks title team in fifty three years and to be purs You do need to have a guard who can make enough your lead guy, your lead ball handler needs to make enough of what I call the before weemby shots. The shots where it's just like, all right, I'm going I'm going one on one or I have a guy on my hip in the pic and roll And oneby's not in the play yet. He's lurking, but we're nineteen feet from the rim. He's not here yet. And yeah, there's a guy digging on me from over here and boy do the sppurs just show and and Show and recover, show and recover. they flinch, they stunt, they make you think The before Wemby shot where the shots that Shay was hitting in game seven where it's just I got a guy on me. He's draped on me. I just got to shoot this because we're not getting anything better And weirdly in rewatching the Spurs Nick teames and obviously just having watched Say the two time MVP against the Spurs seven times I actuallyually think Brunson is better at those shots at least better at getting separation on those shots Almost even than Say is and I think he can make an I mean he's shorter than Say. He probably should hit a lower percentage for midrange than Shay. So this sounds sacrigious I just felt like Shake couldn't get any easy looks against the sppurs. That's obviously a lot of Wby. they have great perimeter defenders I just think Brunson's footwork and bulk is a is just he's just a different animal. Like I think he's going to be able to get decent eighteen footers and for the Kicks to win He's just going to have to make a lot of them and I think he's capable of it Yeah. no, I mean, that's got to be the shot that they got to hit is the mid range shot, you know, I think in my notes, you know, through the course of the playoffs the Nick had fifty average fifty three points in the paint That's number is going to go down against the sppurs. The Spurs are giving up about forty points in the paint. It feel it feels like ten Well when Wendby's on the floor, it feels like ten. If you then when Cornette comes in unfortunately, he's got to deal with with with everybody and it doesn't like it. Cornette's not bad. He's just normal. That's he No, he's normal It' way It's a great way to phrase it. is he's just normal and average. It's just he's following up a dude that's absolutely historic with what he does. So that shot's going to be critical, but that's also going to mean the Spurs perimeter deffendnder castle the cell Harper A they go win it They got to be I on Brunson. They they can't fall for it to and pick up a cheap foul with with him when he leans into them and goes up for the shot and things like that. They're going to have to be that's what they did against Say when you go watch those shots, especially from game seven and Say made a ton of them But they were so damn hard because those guys were all over him. There was no airspace. And I think that's got to be the deal for the Spurs. But for the Nicks, they got to make sure there's enough room for for Brunson to operate and get into the midrange Be I'm going I call it the U turn. We're like we're going to see a bunch of guys drive in, see Wemby and you turn right out of that And and I think that paint kind of being shut down is going to be a problem. for the next. So they need to make up for those points And it's got to be somewhere in the midrange. And I know it's going to be interesting. Brunson can do it I'm confident that Bruunson if he gets enough of those clean looks, he's going to cause problems for and that's going to force Weemby to edge up a little bit more and want to contest those a little bit more. And then that's going to open up stuff along the baseline for the Nicks, whether it's a dunker spot dunk for Mitchell Robinson or or Hart kind of cutting along the baseline and getting an easy bucket. There's going to be a lot of those things It's gott to be Brunson hitting those shots so because that will soften up the defense. and open up doors for the nexticks for them to be able to walk through And heart, u the heart Offensive rebounding and cutting is a big part of how he beats this scheme where teams put centers on him. It's not just hard hitting threes and he'll have if they're going to do this, he's going to have to hit a requisite number of threes And he's not obviously Mitchell Robinson is an offensive rebounder, but he's a really slick offensive rebounder about getting into space. He has a great nose for the ball And if Victor is going to ignore him, I think that is a key variable, partarticularly if Mitchell Robinson can't make his normal impact on the series for whatever reason Um The bench, you mentioned you mentioned Dylan Harper I think the Kicks are a little deeper then the sppurs, particularly if Robinson can give them eighty percent of what he normally gives them. the spurs are really down to three and a half guys off the bench. Harper Keldin Johnson, who is really up and down and a good bell weather for them And Cornet again, like minutes are down impacts a little down the block in game seven. I mean, forget it. if they they win the title and he does nothing else in the entire rest of the finals, that block It's not I don't know if you're going gonna see a statue of it. But if I were like a local restaurant owner in San Antonio, I might commission a little statue of it outside my bar And then and then Carter Bryant for like, it's hit or miss, right? He could play Th unutes in the first half and not see him again I think that You know, who wins those bench battles is big Um, and foul trouble I just don't think the catfll trouble thing can be talked about enough because of the Mitchell Robinson pinky finger And I just wonder I mean if both those guys are out for any period of time in a game. I mean, like for a stretch of a game The choice is Huck fororty or it's An Anobia Center And I really would be interested to see what Anonob at Center looks like against Wemonyama because that's a lineup that can really stretch you out And open up driving gaps and get the blender going Is it too small? can it is he just going to demolish it with labs and offensive rebounds? in the long haul, probably, but This isn't a long haul. It's a short series and if that lineup for the Kicks It's ten threes and a quarter and a half or something. it could swing a game. I think we're going to see it at some point I think we have to. I think you have to be everything has to be on the table for both teams when you're trying to win this championship right now. And I think this is actually really evenly matched I think this is really. I heard you talking with Bill on Saturday and the odds were kind of a little bit surprising to me Oh how high the the spurs were favored. To me, it felt more like a it feels more like a pickum. And I think the Interesting thing too about that five man lineup where it's OG at the five. In short bursts too, it doesn't have to be like I think the longer Weby sees something the sooner he figures it out But if you ran it, forget quarter and a half, if you ran it for four five minutes Cool, We bought time Got a gotot a couple of threes. Bring it back out and run it for another, you know, six minutes I think it's it kind of makes it a little harder for Weny to catch a beat on that. And I think that's kind of the the deal for me with with understanding and even the spurs trying to figure out like the defense to have to kind of shuffle back and forth defensively gets hard. Yeah, in the long run, you're right. offensively. they would I mean, they'd get crushed by the spurs on the offensive side where the spurs would be able to you know throw loobs. There's probably a bunch of offensive rebound opportunities for them and really kind of go to work with that. I think if you do it in bursts wouldould be something. I'd be really interested to see how they how the Spurs handle that I'm looking through my notes, which looks like the notes of a madman. I like to write down things on paper still Um Have we to see what if we've missed any wrinkle, anything, any any X's and O thing What what would you like to what have we missed Well, one thing to me is going to be the transition game Right and getting the easy buckets. And I think, you know, for me and it's not just transition for me with the spurs Spurs when they play fast and they get the ball up to court quickly. It really kind of allows their offense to find find its's well and that's By the way, it's not just first thing. Every team should be trying to get the ball up the court quickly and get more time to run offense and run their actions But I feel like the spurs when they get Not necessarily transition but early offense stuff where they get a quick drive And it flattens out the defense. I almost feel like they always get a good look. on that possession because whether it's the team had the cross match and or in matchups they don't like or they rotated. they weren't quite ready for it and it opened up an opportunity for somebody else to find buckets. You know, there was A Dylan Harper early offense drive that led to Champanne three in game seven that kind of changed things in terms of the the momentum. And I think those are the things for me Can the Nick slow them down and keep them at a slower pace You know, the Nicks like to play fast too. I mean, we saw what they did to the cavs, but part of that is the cs just decided they weren't going to play any transition defense But I think the the if they can slow down the spurs I think that's an area they got to hit. That's a pressure point. I would want to touch on if I' the Nicks of like we want this to be a little bit slower. so that they're not flying up and down the court because offensively they'll start to cook Part of that is limiting their turnovers. and again, the Spurs do not force very many, and that's helpful to the Kicks U Yeah, I mean It's They're going to have to do a lot of things right offensively and the sppurs transition limiting the sppurs and transition is is a huge part of that. And the cat fl trouble is a huge part of that. And you said something about the spurs that I already Oh, harper, harper. I mentioned before how the Kicks have gotten better at dealing with teams hunting, Jalen Brunson, notot giving up the switch as easily and helping behind him It's really going to be tested in this series because Castle in particular had some bullyball attacks against the Kicks, even against brridges, even against Hart in the regular season that was like, oh my God. And the stuff Harper was doing against Oklahoma City when he looked healthy is I mean, Brunson stout and it is not easy to move, but he's just so small compared to the Spurs guys and they're so aggressive and so fierce. that's going to be an issue. On the other hand, I think Brunson will try to hunt Fox too on defense when when the Nicks have the ball. evenven if it's just Let me get him switched on to me before I go in to the real action that we're going to run, whether it's a pick and roll or some flex stuff or whatever they do I think this is a really even matchup Should we do picks? Should we do it Let's let's do it. This has been a tough one. I've I've Literally was on the plane flying here and it was going back and forth over and over again. I'm so excited for the series just because I think it's so close I've tried so hard. I mean so hard tried in many different ways to get a beat on Mitchell Robinson's status in the last forty hours. And I'm just telling I'm telling people like, I don't even I'm not breaking news. I just sw want to who to pick Right. And I haven't been able to find much out That's how close it is I think it's a very close series and it's going to be a long series I'll let you go first I am leaning Furs in seven I think it's going seven. I think it's going the distance. at the very least this is going six I just think there's just more levers for me that I think the Surs can touch on that I don't know if the Kicks can. And I think Wempy is just such a force that it's a problem for everybody else to have to deal with Cats foul trouble terrifies me. Especially in light of the uncertainty on Mitchell Robinson, who I assume is going to try to play Um after just having gone undergone surgery. So I don't know what his pain tolerance is going to be. I don't know what he's going to be wearing. onn his hand, as I joked with Bill, I don't think it can make his free throw shooting any worse. Maybe it has the Snaazzeru effect that Rip Hamilton and wearing the maskat did like unlock some super free throw shooting for him. I don't know That to me is the single biggest reason other than obviously Weenby and their general billiions to pick to pick against the Nicks and pick the sppurs in the series the spurs are favore. They deserve to be favored. They've been the better team all year. they have home court. I went back and forth so many times And particularly in light of the Robinson injury I'm going to pick the Nicks Fuck Yeah, I'm going toick I'm going to pick I'm going to pick the Nixon seven It's, I mean, it's listen to have caught lightning in a bottle like the way they're playing. is pretty We've seen this stuff before we've seen the Lakers do it in was it two thousand one where they went on that run and I they had a little bit of a track record that the Nicks don't have at that at that point. But yes you know, but we've kind of seen this, you know, we've seen it from the maps like we've seen years where teams just go It's the equivalent of hockey riding a hot goalteender Right? Like they're just rolling right now. It wouldn't shock me. like this is really close. I hope N fans aren't going to be like, you know, all about f This is tight. This is tight. This is going to be a very close ass series I'm going fuck it. 'm going to pick the Nicks. I'm going to pick the Nicks in seven Despite all the concerns I just laid out about Robinson's injury and Cat's foul trouble and all of that, I can't believe I'm picking the next side. I am a believer, Mo. I believe you can talk to me about the calves let go of the rope The Hawks were a paper tiger who actually took two games off them and the Sixers were good for a hot second against Boston and then MBed got hurt again and they lost their Mojo. I get it. might be recency bias. I might be weighing too much what they did to those teams who had limitations that the spurs certainly don't have I believe in what the Kicks have done I think they have found something magical. in the last month And I think they're going to ride it to the first title in fifty three years. I'm picking Nixon seven Um because I think it will be a long series. I think road teams can win game sevens now. we've seen it overver and over again As much as they have the Robinson thing unknown going against them and the ripple effects that presents for cats fl trouble. I just feel like they're ready for this. I feel like they're ready for it. that they have found this version of themselves that I'm not even sure they knew they had And the other thing they have going for them that at least counteracts a little bit of that Is they're super well rested. And the spurs just had to dig super deep. to beat the Thunder. And I don'm not really worried that the Surs are tired, they're young, they're deep and all that I think these are two evenly matched teams, but I believe That what the Kicks have done in the last month and a half is a real thing I picked them to make the finals before the season. So I already thought they were good. I lost a little bit of faith in those wonky January and March periods where they were a little wonky Um I'm picking them to win the title. Nixon seven, Nick and the title drought and God help us, Mo If they win the title. I told Bill this. I'm just going I'm taking metro North. I'm going into the city And whatever reaction podcast I do might just be me in a bar and people screaming for an hour because I can't even tell you how on fire New York is right now about the Kicks. I think it's awesome Um, I think the sppurs are awesome. I think Weemby's unbelievable It may be corny. it's corny. it's the corny pick. I think it's the next time I'm picking the Nixon seven I mean, I don't blame you like this is in everything that we've seen from them because look, I picked them to go to the finals too and My whole thing with picking them going to the finals was like, who else was I going to pick in the east? I didn't believe in Cleveland. We knew the situation with Boston. This was at the start of the season. But now' I picked them go to the finals for all the wrong reasons it feels like because this team deserves to be at the finals. and I hate all the stuff where everybody talks about look at the road they took and the thing can I just say like They did what they were supposed to do. They beat the crap out of all They beat all these teams by a thousand points over It wast like sorry doogs they ready. Yeahah, they lost by fifty nine They blew out the competition. So that shouldn't be considered a strike against them. It's not like they barely got they didn't win four close games against the cavs, you know, they they blew them out in three and even the overtime in game one wasn't that close didn't, you know in the way we were set up. So for me, I don't think there's a It's so close. like I don't have any problem with anybody picking the Nicks. All I know is we all better buckle up because this is going to be a close series. I was I was ready to pull the trigger on Nixon six before the Robinson newews broke and that threw me into I'm not going to say a spiral because I was you know, I was emotionally okay, but it threw me into a spiral mode. I was spiraling. I didn't know what to do. I had my pick set and then this wild card came throwing at me I'm going to just stick with it. Nixon seven. I can't let Mitchell Robinson determine my entire pick at the NBA finals. Nixon seven It should just be an unbelievable series. You're going to be here in San Antonio as am I. What should we be looking for from you while you're here I'm going to be doing a pre game show on X Live withith Alexis Morgan and Zach Harper. We're going to be two hours before tip off on Wednesday, two hours before game two game three and game four. So I'm going to be on site for the finals for all of that You know I'm writing again, I'm on Bleacher Rort article just dropped today. Oh, nice. Yeah. so literally about the next matchup against Wemby. I think I'm going to I might be having something else coming later in the week. And then of course, double dribble podcast with Jared Dubin. We're going to be recording on a Wednesday and do our finals preview and then we're also going to be doing a u Also check out all the videos I'm putting up on offffside. We're having a great time Wh, We made it, Mo. This is the best time of year. I mean the best like We can't table all the trade rumors and free agency stuff because that's part of the league. But they take a back seat now to the reason that we all do this, the reason that all these teams are making those phone calls and trying to make trades and all that. is to get here and two teams have made it They are two historically monster significant teams in the league And the historical stakes of this series are so fun with the spurs twelve years removed from their last title, trying to get back to the top again, trying to announce themselves as oh, we're here already and we're going to be here for a long time. So long you kind of changed the lottery rules so that no one can accumulate the talent that we just accumulated. And the Kicks, of course all the baggage of fifty three years All the fans who have been waiting so long old people who love the seventy and seventy three teams and what they stand for and how they play it and see some of those teams in this team and the way they've moveved the ball All the close calls, all the battles with Jordan that they just couldn't win Charles Smith, Akeem blocking Starks. the whole thing. It's and then the whole we don't need to get into it. It's just been a long time for one of the more beloved and massively popular teams League It's going to be awesome and Mo, you're going to be chronicling it all. I will be chronicling it all too I can't wait. we have another day tomorrow to warm up And then it's game time onn Wednesday Motecure, you're the best. Thanks for helping us out Thank you for having Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of T turns out, it's more common than you'd think Pyrony's disease, or PD for short PedD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis This can cause a curve or a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self esteem, and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD The actual cause of PD isn't always known In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity The good news is PD is treatable If you notice a curve with a bump, A trusted Uurology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment To learn more about Pironi's disease, visit talkaboutpD d. com. Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck person who drives it It's a Chevy person Probably no one B buddy Your sister Oes who always show up, do the first to rise, the last to leave They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too Chevrolet, togetheroget let's drive. Visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup Let's bring in one of my favorite guests. It's been too long since we've had him because frankly, his team was so good. It was almost boring until it wasn't. Andrew Schleck from the Down to Dung podcast and the Athletic NBA Daily showhow. How you doing Bud I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Zach So The Thunder Your team, your hometown team. All Wow What a season and then all of a sudden they ran into we saw it coming in December when in the span of ten days, the spurs flipped the whole season on its head from is this team going to be seventy four and eight and stomp to a second consecutive title to Whoa boy Do they have a problem that they didn't anticipate having? and do we now all have a problem that has arrived here much sooner than we thought? And the answer turned out to be, yes, the Spurs won eight and four against the Thunder overall in twelve games, seven game series epic Western conference finals, thrilling tenh game seven in Oklahoma City, no Jelen Williams, no AJ Mitchell, We we all know that The Thunder are sent home earlier than anticipated the spurs. I'm in San Antonio or in the finals. And so the bigger picture question. you were there. They did like a marathon media day. credit to the Thunder There's no bullshit media day. There's no like oh, so and so already went back to his home country. So and so is already gone, so and so doesn't want to talk and skipped out. They all talked. And the sort of big question And I want you were there for all of it. you know these people all much better than I do Um There There are two extremes. Extreme number one is, hey Seven games, game seven at home without two of our most important players, including our second best overall player. Our third best overall player kind of had a meltdown in front of the entire world. Hopefully that doesn't happen again. and we still almost won the series. Yeah, we don't have a great answer for Victor Wbinyama. Spoiler alert. Nobody does. There is no great answer to Victor Wbinyama. mostostly run it back with some changes around the fringes probably aimed at saving money and reorganizing the cap sheet and all of that. That's one poll Poll number two is Oh fuck We have now run into a roblock that we cannot solve. Our third best player did actually have a complete mental meltdown in front of the world and we're actually afraid that he's a little bit broken, particularly in this matchup that we have to solve. Do we have to have a seismic summer of change in which one of our best players actually goes out the door and we go out and we reach for a superstar who maybe fits better in what we need against Viictor Wimenyama. a big guy who can put some pressure on the rim can put some pressure on Wemenyama on the rim on the other end of the floor. Maybe ononestenta Kumpo. And I say all of that with the caveat is as sexy as this trade talk is. and I think there it's worth discussing. It's not just a stupid pie in the sky first take narrative It's really hard Just no matter what deal you're trying to do It's really hard to make any big seismic trade that Um doesn't hurt them financially or just helps them like saves them money long term short term doesn't make them too much older doesnn't make them any worse now and doesn't make them too much worse in the future. It's a very hard needle to thread. So which of those two poles, Andrew, are we thinking the Thunder are going to adhere to I think it's the first one. I think when you look at the way they wanted to build this team, they wanted to build it to last a long time, probablyably an unreasonable amount of time because NBA teams just don't stay together that long anymore. I think that they're hoping that this one does. And when they resigned Shay, Dub and Chet last summer, I think that that was the hey, this is our core moving forward. All these guys are signed up long term. This is who we're moving forward with I don't think they'll deviate from that. You listen everybody talk yesterday. They were pretty Everyone was on message, I would say with what they think about Chet and that when Chet's at there at his best, the Thunder are at their best. now You go to the caveat, Ched was not at his best. He wasn't anywhere close to his best And you look at like the ten points and seven rebounds the average during the series, I think it's more important to look at the seven shot attempts that he got per game in the series. Like he just could not find his shot and we all know that he took two shot attempts and game seven didn't take a shot attempt after the first quarter Um I think that they believe in who Chet is as a person and that they're going to have to help him get better shots. Some of it is, it was the perfect storm for it to be terrible for Chet. One, hes just hasn't been very good against the Spurs and Victor Wiminyama. And then two, you take all the creators besides Say off the court Things just get a lot harder It was a lot harder for Shay. It was a lot harder for everybody Even like Alex Caruso was a superhero at times during that series You could even see the spurs begin to wear him down And a lot of it was this lack of creation that the Thunder had out there. And if you don't have AJ Mitchell and you don't have Jadob, the job of everybody offensively is really hard to where like Jared McCain become It became outrageously important. I don't think the series goes seven without Jred McCain Thunder They just needed more creation U But yeah, I don't think there's any thought of trying to move on from Ched Homgren for the Thunder. I think that they look at everything very holistically Whether that's right or wrong, I think that that's how they're looking at it. They're going to have to beat the spurs at some point in the playoffs. But I think that they they believe that If they were healthy, they would have And so I don't think that they are looking at Chet as if this is a problem that we can't solve or he's broken or he's an next Ben Simmons or whatever people you want to say about it. I do think that this is somebody who they believe is resilient has shown to be resilient because he's come back from pretty bad injuries. He had the foot injury, you had the hip injury and he's shown that he can be a resilient guy. And so I think that they they're leaning on that more than they are thinking about you know, really changing the roster Look, I said this with Bill right after the game on whatever day that was I am rooting for continuity across the board. Now that's not going to be universal. There are going to be changes to the roster as there are for every team. Sure, exxcept I guess the Thunder driver last season And I'm rooting for continuity for a lot of reasons. Number one Um As a neutral fan, like isn't this what we want? Don't we want the core, not all of a great team, but the core of it to stay together, take some lumps, come back to fight another day. Don't you want instead of doing the reaching for the shiny object and that's not a denigration of Yanis or whoever else there Yanis is a top five player in the NBA, no doubt Instead of just immediately one setback Kee jerk like, well, we gott to go get that guy. Don't you want everyone to huddle up and be like, how can we make sure this never happens again? Chet. How can we make sure you're never lost in space like you were in that series again? Don't Isn't this what we all want? These two teams circling each other with the same core group of characters for the next five years? That's what I want. I think that's what any neutral fan That's more fun to me than like, oh, okay, they traded Chet And Kaysason Wallace and two picks and two swaps for Janis and got seven and a half years older Got a guy who has been injury prone for like five of the last six playoffs, G a guy who has minimal to no floor spacing ability. And by the way, how are you going to fit that with Isaiah Hardstein who is probably coming back in this scenario. We'll talk about him later. And that's the challenge of a lot of the chet trades because here's the thing with Wenby. You need a lot of things to beat Wby That's that's what happens when you face an all time great player. I think the Thunder probably need a little bit more outside shooting. All right that's maybe a need to address separately But you need a lot of size and you need size in you need a diversity of size. And really on paper The Thunder combination of Hartenstein and Homgren is like about as good as you can do. in terms of a combination of size to combat Wbonyama, because you have the first layer is bulk and the physicality and the toughness of like, I'm going to do my damnedest to just keep you from getting to the rim clean. And the second layer is when you do get to the rim There's a seven foot one guy with a giant wingspan waiting to at least make your life difficult. Yes, he's going to get posterized and that game seven poster was as vicious and mean and nasty as it gets, But like that's ideally youd like to have all that wrapped up in one guy, But to face oneemby it's almost better to have it in two guys who can kind of help each other And that that need for the dual kind of size is one reason I think that chet as only big man lineups completely disappeared in the conference finals. and I want to talk more about that. And so The challenge you face is you can't really get any smaller if you're trying to tweak your team to fit to face Weemby Um, If you do get bigger or have a have a sort of wash in terms of size going out and coming in. and I think that's why Jianis is such an intriguing target because he is big and he can protect the rim Does that ship away you're shooting to the point that it becomes even more difficult to score in some ways, even though Yanis has a straight line sort of big rim pressure that Chet does does not have. I I I don't think they're going to chase Jonas I actually probably don't think they should if the price is as high as I think it would be Um, but these are these are kind of hard questions, I think and they do have to figure something out and I and fair or not, it's going to It's going to center on Ched Holmbren and whatever the hell happened to him in that series. I mean, you mentioned the seven shot attempts for Gamer or whatever it was. The eleven threes for the entire series is just astounding. He could not find any role on offense at all no matter who he was playing with in the series Yeah, that's been part of the struggle with him is is offensively when you look at Chets's game. And why I've mentioned the creators is that 's been a play fininisher almost only. and his three point shooting has somehow gotten slower to where the Spurs felt so confident and cheating off of him and being able to recover in time to make him just not even attempt a three that they that was part of their game plan that really worked is that they just took away the three and they could do it. while not just like staying glued to him, which became a huge problem for the Thunder. And so to me, like speeding up his release There was even time where like there's no rotation on the ball either. as it's heading to the rim from chet from three. there's just like a lot of issues that have kind of popped up with this three ball, which One of the strengths of having Chet Home Gner team And presumably him as the lone big out there is that He can stretch the floor and that you can play fast. you can play this style you can play this style that's pretty unique, but when he doesn't shoot threes, that's kind of taken away because they don't feel like they really need to worry about him. He's not going to tack a closees out When you talk about like what is Chet's go to move on offense think Probably it's the spin move in the lane is probably the thing that people would think about the most When you play San Antonio, that's gone. And he knew it like to his credit, you didn't see him like try that over and over again. Like he knew that wasn't going to work against the Spurs, which is When you take away the three When you take away the Rim because Wimby's there. When you take away the spin move, well, what's left There wasn't just a lot left there for him And so to me, like Priority number one, speed up the three ball If he can get a faster release on the three, he'll be way more effective And then I just wonder Three or four years if we're talking about Jet having like an actual go to move And then we talk about these like bigger forwards, through time does Chet develop some kind of like go to mid range shot that it's like, no matter what, I feel like I can get to this shot, especially And it wasn't just Wimby that there were smaller guys that would guard him. that he just didn't feel comfortable to doing anything against. And so Does he develop a go to move Can he develop a three point shot? If he can solve either either one of those problems I think I think things look a little bit better next year for him Becauseuse a lot of it is just confidence defensively, he's got it. like we all know. we saw it the rest of the playoffs until they play the sppurs It's to me, it's all about confidence. And if he has like a little bit more tools to work with next season, I think maybe that confidence is a little bit higher. Yeah, it was Ive The defense is consistent. you have to give him credit for that. I do also want to credit the Thunder for the degree of Damage control they did on Media day like or maybe it was right after the game when Dagel was like, you know, I still thought his minutes in game seven were pretty good. likeike we didn't get outscored with him on the floories play but I'm like o. mayaybe not on this one. Yeah. Maybe and put that one in the bag know And then Sed after the game being like, they were really closing out heavy on me. I'm like, I'm not really sure that they were closing out super aggressively I kn. But look, here's the thing. I mean Here's the thing with Wenby is If Hartenstein is on the floor with Chet or even if Jayen Williams is on the floor with Chet, whatever look you get but let's start with Hartenstein and why that lineup got played out of the series and the Dort Hartenstein homegrin combo was such a disaster. If Victor can guard a traditional rim running center Um Chet can attack closeouts that great That's great. There's always going to be this guy waiting on the backline to to disrupt you. Like I thought that Chet should have screened and rolled a little bit more and I'll elaborate on that later, but you're still screening and rolling into the nexus of Wembenyama I just thought it was really interesting that Chet is only Big man just was disqualified from the Thunder's rotation against Wenby because that was always their most powerful look Um putut as much shooting and playmaking around shet as you can That opens up in theory and this is the power of Wenby. in theory, now Chet can become the roller like screen, roll, dive into open space, drag Wby into the pick and roll and start to play makeake four on three. But here's the thing about Wenby. He doesn't have to agree to any of that. Even if you put the best offensive lineup you can put with Ched at the five and no other big men on the floor There's no thepurs don't have to have Victor Wemy I'm a guard Chet Hgren and engage in all the pick and roll shenanigans we just talked about. Cason Wallace is over in the corner. I'm going to sit here in the corner. Yeah, he's a threatening shooter. almost got the thunder right back into game seven at the end. Caruso, same thing. I'm going to stand over here in the corner and I'm going to do that because I'm so long and so fast that it's not the same kind of gamble it is for any other big man playing this way that it is for me. And so yeah, in theory, it sounds like a great idea. Chad at the five, get Victor into the pick and roll, get some four on three action going. and it's just like normal rules do not apply to Weminyama. That said, when you talk about go to moves I still think an aggressive screen and dive game against this particular team has to be part of it and just see like even if Victor is playing that zone that we're talking about and there's a wing on setet You can still screen and slip, slip the switch. get it with a little momentum and at least make Victor start making decisions a little bit in the paint. And there was none of that in this series. In fact Three of the nine lowest volume screen setting games of chet season reggular season of playoffs combined were in this series. He just had absolutely no role. And I also think like a poorzinga shot from the nail from the foul line like a dirk shot has to be part of it too I think with little tweaks unless he's just mentally broken in this matchup and I don't think that he is from what I know about him Yeah I think little tweaks here and there. and you keep Hartenstein and you keep chet and you keep this sort of try again with this double big formula against onebinyama because I do think that's the best possible solution to him. on offense and making it harder for him to just eat at the rim all the time is having that kind of combination of bulk and length in two guys, but it's on set to like just get better at every part of his game and it doesn't have to necessarily be a sea change, but I think it's a bunch of little things have to come together for him Yeah. I also think about like a really deep three. Like Porzinggus work has worked that into his game Beuse when Chet's taking three, it's almost like always like right at the line And there's not really. I think McCain is maybe like the only other guy. Isaiah Joe will take some like deep threes, but he's somebody that didn't even really play in this series all that much. But if you can have like a really deep three, that's just an Just something the Thunder just didn't really have at all. Why do you think speaking of Isaiah Joe, why do you think Chet as solo bigig man just vanished in this series? Was it a product of the Chet Weemby matchup Was it a product of two of the best supporting wing players on the team being gone. And so it's just harder to construct small lineups. I mean, that said, Wiggins and Joe basically were not even playing in the series. but was it a was it what was it? likeike why I didn't I expected it to shrink a little bit. I did never expected like we just won't see that look ever in any of these games Yeah, I think a lot of it is that JadeW didn't play I think that I think that they would have played that line upp had Jada played and On the other end, Jay Will showed to be like one of the more important players that were left in this series. And so when it came down to it, like they were going to keep playing chet You have to play Iyhart. He showed to be very valuable against Wemby. And then J Will guarded him primarily in game seven, like he proved to be very valuable. And then thiss like, okay, if you're going to go even smaller I just don't think they had a ton of confidence going even smaller, just because the Spurs guards, like we talk about the Wimbie problem The spurs have, there's so many problems to solve with the sppurs, but the other one is that their guards are giant and The Thuunnder don't have big guards. they have smaller guards that play big The Spurs have big guards that play big And it just makes it really tough to like really downsize. I think that they downsize probably as much as they could, especially when you play a guy like Jared McCain, likeike you have to cover for him in certain ways. I just don't know that they felt like they had the personnel to do that Dub been healthy I think that we would have seen it just because I do think there is some confidence that Doub can go out there and defend Wind be at a reasonable rate. and then you can open things up a little bit there But without him He's really kind of like their Swiss Army knife, skeleton key, whatever you want to call it. That's that's what he is to this team. And without him They don't really have that because I mean, even if you decided to play Dort who may be like the only other smaller guy that you feel comfortable playing there, he just didn't have a good enough series for you to trust him to be out there No, he did not Um And I was surprised said it before Game seven said after game seven that Dagnal trotted him out there. and the damage was limited because he pulled him fast. Yeah All right, let me go through If I had to predict like my vision of what the Thunder will do this off season piece by piece, and you can tell me where you think I'm right where you think I'm wrong.. I think all three of Chet Jada and Say are on the team next year. I don't think there's a seismic move with any of the three of them. But just interrupt me whenever you want. Here's the simplest path to like saving money and reorganizing the roster a little bit and saying as good as you are now and pretty much as well as you are in the future. and they have I think four total extra draft assets in the first round still coming from two from Denver, one from the Clippers, a pixap from Dallas and then a whole bunch of second rounders and other stuff U Hartenstein, I think you need him. I think you make a deal with him where you decline his team option for twenty eight and a h fivef million and resign him, let's say, three years, seventy five million do. a little bit of a discount saves you some money. And like every three million dollars of savings is like multiplied by a gazillion in tax Ken Rich Williams you want to retire here, you're a cultural touchstone. We're going to decline your seven and whatever million dollar team option and resign you for the midimleum. Now we've just saved like twenty something, thirty something million dollars in tax money Yeah O or both of Joe and Wiggins is traded for a second round picks and not much else as a salary dump. And you have McCain and Topitch and whoever else ready and waiting in place to take their place I do think the noise about them what do they have twelve and seventeen in addition to all these other and thirty seven to. Yeah. I do think the noise about them attempting to move up in the draft and per potentially way up is true. I'm not sure they can get into the top four, but I do think some attempt to move up and maybe grab Adam Mara from Michigan. if I'm saying his name right. I don't even know Um or some other big time player and just sort of refresh in that way And then the wild card is dt And I don't know what happens with Dort. and they have an eighteen million dollars player option Um on him Opt in is an option. obbviously just opt them in do the same thing with Hartenstein and say, hey, man, your market is probably the mid level. Do you really like being here would you take like a three year forty eight forty five million dollars kind of deal at around the mid level Or you just add them to the we're trading you for second round picks. Y usefulness to us has kind of run out with the Caruso Wallace know blah, blah, blah grouping around him. What what he that that that is my prediction with the Dorort thing is the one I don't know. What whereere am I wrong? Where am I right? What do you see Yeah, I don't I don't think that you're wrong at all. I do think that When you look at guys like Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins, both like super valuable regular season guys, incredible locker room guys, guys that you want to have a part of your program Their contracts are really easily moved. I think there will be a lot of teams that would want to have them. and I think that the second round picks is like about right for them. I think a lot of teams could have used these guys you look across the playoffs at teams that like lost in aroundound one round two like they would play for those teams. They're good players and good contracts and honestly like They were so desperate for outside shooting in this series that I was a little surprised Joe didn't have a slightly longer leash. I understand the limitations defensively. They gave Wiggins a try. The Spurs were like, we're just going pretend that you are the worst shooter who's ever lived, even though you're not and he didn't make them pay They're good players on good contracts for sure. Yeah. No, I think you're right. And like Kenner staying around makes sense. like he's a he's like a cultural touchstone for them in a lot ofays. And so is Dort I'm really I'm a little bit torn on how I feel about what they do with him. And especially yesterday, he was asked about team option and kind of what he thought would happen. this summer and he basically just like wrote a love letter to the Thunder as he's sitting there in front of us. And I even was like, okay Well Your role has diminished this year and and Maybe like the lowest minute since your rookie season Your minutes were down in the playoffs, your shot attempts are down. All these things are down. Like how did you process that He just talked about how much he loved Mark Degnaault and respects the decision that he made. and he wouldn't be He's like, I don't even know if I would be the player I am in the NBA without the Thunder and without Mark Degnaal. respect their decisions. You know, like there was like no like, hey, I understood it, but I didn't like it. It' kind of what I thought I would hear But he just talked about how much he loved being part of the Thunder and like wants to wants to stay in OKC. which makes sense. I just wonder If like you you do what you said, like give him a lesser contract and tell him like you're going to have a benchroll because I do think like the the ascends of AJ Mitchell is happening To me, if I were to But before you before you go, I want to double down on what you're about to say because I keep seeing him being like toss into these like well, they could throw like three first round picks and this guy and AJ Mitchell to move up and they're like AJ Mitchell was going to win six Men of the year. The league at large could not be any higher on him than they are now. And he has two years and five and a half million dollars thereabouts left on just the contract itself is insanely valuable And I agreed if Dor comes back, it's in a it's in a benroll. likeike that it's time for that now. Yeah. I think you can go ahead and put AJ Mitchell in like the core four. You want to talk about like the top three guys. I think you can put him in the core four. I think He's a player that has, I mean he hadn't even played a hundred games yet and it's like very obvious that He's got it. And he's better defensively than they thought, which I think is a huge part of this equation is that oppensively he's a guy that can get a paint touch whenever he wants He can score at all three levels. He's tough as nails defensively He's a lot better than anyone thought he would be. It's part of the reason that he slipped to the second round is that he was thought to be just kind of this Dynamic score that you know, is he he's a bench player in the NBA? Well, the fact that he can defend and he is as competitive as he is, I think is probably the reason that he's elevated into that Core four because I talk to even I talked to him about it. I've talked to Lou Dort about it because I just really value how Lou thinks about defense And I was like, what did you think about AJ when he got here He was like, he was already good He was already a good defender. He said he's learning more as he goes and as he gets more reps with everybody and as he learns the NBA, But Age is a good defender. And so to me you can add him to that. I think as the Thunder figure out where they want to position themselves in the second apron. I mean, they're undoubtedly going to experience the second apron at some point whether they like try to completely dodge it this summer or not. I don't know AJ Mitchell' is going to be part of that path. I just think like And then you talk about him culturally just as a guy There's nobody that fits like the Thunder culture maybe better than him And so I think that He's like a core foundational member of what they're going to do moving forward. Now the one thing that I do, like the only like hole that I can poke in AJ Mitchell at this point is that he plays a style of basketball that is really hard on his body which is like we've seen that over the course of this year is that he can be a little bit reckless. He can be like a bowling ball all the way to the rim which is like part of his skill But it's also part of the reason that I think that he's gotten hurt. And so he's got to kind of figure that out. But again, he's not played that many NBA games. There was a reason that Mark Deckneel threw him into the game U in the NBA finals last year out of nowhere in game one. hereere comes AJ Mitchell into the rotation. And there was a reason why because like the belief in this guy is sky high. So With that, I do think they can make a lot of different decisions off of that U The only other one that you didn't say is Kaysason Wallace. And like where do they go with Kaysason as far as contract extension talks with him I think that will be a really interesting one, but Yeah, I can see a world where like both Joe and Wiggins are moved on from. you need to find minutes for Titch. You need to find a bigger role for AJ Mitchell You'll have Jared McCain in tow for the whole season. I think that they have the necessary depth and the guys that can fill in. whoever they take at twelve or if they do move up That guy will move into the rotation to and then they'll move forward. And the Dort one is a mystery to me becausecause if he if he is willing to take a lower number, I could see him staying If he's wanting twenty to twenty five million do and he feels like he can get that Goodbye that's why the case of That's why the case of Wallest thing is like it's not that interesting because I think one way or another The most likely outcome by far is the Thunder are going to get him back on a number that they can swallow. And whether that's an extension now or just say, hey, you're we're just too far apart. Let's go to restricted free agency next summer and bank on No gigantic offer sheet is coming for you. Like I think something happens there Um, What I haven't addressed in my seven point plan for the Thunder is I really haven't added outside shooting And maybe that's a full season of McCan, although his three is up and down Maybe it's Mitchell and J Dubb being healthy neither of those guys is like a knockown knockdown three point shooter Dub will look like it now and then. AJ Mitchell was thirty five percent this year. And I do think when they inevitably clash with Wenenyama again They either need more outside shooting or more rim pressure or a little bit of both. And the rim pressure, I think, can come from some of the chat screen and dive, at least like puncture the paint a little bit, even if you're not finishing. Um And I don't really know how else to get them shooting because of the second Apron. And to be clear, I talked with a bunch of C specialists about this today and yesterday They're subject to the second April now, even though the next NBA calendar season has not started yet and they're quote unquote under the tax The Apron restrictions that are going to kick in go into effect before July one I don't really know how they're going to do it. I played around with some trades, but it's just they can't if you're in the second apon, you can't do, you're just in jail. It's very hard to make trades. You can't aggregate salary. You can't take a dollar more than you send now. You can't acquire player and a sign and trade You'd have to get under the second apron to do any of those things. Yeah. What's the is there a shooting idea solution that's out there? Everyone's going to say Treayury this, Treay Murphy them. I'm like, okay, how? I don't I don't really see how I hate to be this guy, but I think it's like good to be more internal development for them. and then perhaps they solve some of that through the draft Like I just don't see any big swings coming when it comes to shooting for them this summer. I think that they they think that some of their guys are maybe a little better. I think that they think McCain is better. than what he showed this year I wonder if they could get in a guy like Brdon Burryess in the draft if they could get up to nine You know, he's he's he's another one of these like more comboy guards, but ough A guy that like fits Thunder culture. I think he's a really interesting one A lot of people talk about Yaxel. I don't know how great a shooter he'll be in the NBA. I don't know if he necessarily fits the centnder culture or not either Um, so they could go there, but I think it's going to be largely through internal development for these guys. like again, Chet can take five threes against the spurs then you you've solved a lot In a series or in one game. What are we asking for? I'm asking for too much maybe, but I think five five a game if he to me whenever I saw him play for the first year, I thought this is a guy that needs to probably take seven threees a game And honestly, it's generallyally not that hard to do that when you're seven foot one and you are often spacing the floor for the dribble pick and roll attack. around you I think I agree with you on the internal improvement thing. What are the things that I think we get so caught up in like They failed and thus must abandon half of what they stand for as an organization Sometimes it's smart to do that, sometometimes it's not Um, They only failed by the standards that they kind of set for themselves in the media prematurely set for them.' like Ohh, know dynasty coming five of the next six championships. Even though history suggests that's very hard. We have now going to have eight straight years with a new champion this year and part of their build is D. Built into it is the luxury of being able to fail. specific seasons by their standards because they are built for a longer run. and when you are built for a longer window, this is why teams like longer windows better than shorter windows. you can absorb a year from hell injury wise, a year just where things didn't work out and a great player beat you and come back to fight another day and maybe the outcome is different. the next year. That said, just for the purposes of illustration. Can I go through best chet trades that I could come up with and just so we can see how difficult this is. Yes So I'm throwing the honest one out. we've already discussed it, but the Yonest one is illustrative because if you're going to trade Chet, you need to bring back size somehow. Like you just cannot go like chet for a guard who can shoot. You're just if you're concerned about Wemby, you're now too small and too dependent on Hardenstein Um, So and again, second year and all that Where do I want to start? I mean, they're not great. That's a great. That's a great intro How about Chet Hongren to Portland for Donovan Klingon Jeremy Grant And some subset of first round picks. Oh, wf. I don't know how that makes the Thunder better No, no I'm not And here's the problem. all the size we're bringing in. does not bring the shooting ability that you need to coexist with Cstein. who's going to be a core player. So I'm a no on that. I tested the waters. I test drove a u to Brooklyn For Michael Porter Junior, the number six pick in the draft and Day Ron Sharp. I just don't think Don Sharp is like good enough. He's a career back. He's a great. I think to beat Wemby And I talked about this with Moe previewing the finals An elite offensive rebounding center is like an absolute must. Like a lob catching offensive rebounding center. And like Hartenstein is half of that, but not all of it. But Sharp's just not good enough Um He's not better than Jay Will. like you got to at least be better than J Will. No, but he's better at that than Jay Will. He's better He's better at offensive rebounding making Weny think if I challenge this shot, am I am I is there someone behind me who can punish me I thought about your problem for my problem, Chet for jail endurance swap, which is not possible because the sign and trade prohibition U How about Chet to Miami for Tyler Hero, Coleell Weare and a draft asset? I hate it for I hate it for both teams. byy the way, I don't like the Chet Bam mix. I don't like any of this. Yeah. I don't know that whereare is necessarily the thundery guy that that you'd want either. Um And our hero, really Yeah. No, I don't like it. But this is the point. And by the way, there are a million three and four team trades we could do that satisfy are all of the checklist items that we are trying for here I tried to build a trade around Chet Hgrren for Brandon Miller because I actually think that's somewhat interesting for both teams Um and but I'm like again, I need size And so like, okay, I'll ask for Kolkbrurnner is like Kolkbrenner ready to play against Victor Wiminama in the playoffs next year. He's not like is I tried u I tried with Dallas with like Gafford plus some like good like PJ Washington types or throw clay in if you want shooting plus the number nine pick in the draft And Dallas can be like we have Chet and Cooper flag. We're doing Luca Por Zingas two point zero and the Thunder get another draft pick to try and bundle and move up. I just again, I just don't know if Gafford is good enough He's a great offensive reboundnder lob catcher, but like we're talking about Victor Webinyama Um And I like New Orleans for Treay Murphy the third and Yves Missy. No, miss me on that. I can't do it. I can't I can't find any. So here's I'll throw a couple others at you that are interesting Would you do Forget shut, we keep shut Would you do JWub for Evan Mobbley Challenge trade Hmm Uh, no. I think that like How he's the he's the skeleton key. He's like he's so dynamic I mean the guy scored forty in the finals. you know, I just don't think I know he's injured and it was a bummer that he couldn't play But sometimes like we can forget just how good guys are when they don't play. And I think that dub goes on that list. So he had a he had an awful year Healthwise. He had dealt with the wristk early on four hamstring injuries, it was a bad year for him. But if he gets it together, I think that you know, if if you go if you talk about this at the end of last season There's just be like no way you would ever consider that. So I'll say no. I'm also a no. I think it's interesting. Would you do a chet for Alper and Shengoun challenge trade? And I only mentioned Shengun because the salaries are similar, The size element is satisfied. and Shenon does seem to be the opposite of Chet in just this one specific thing. He fucking loves going into Victor Weminyama's face and chest and stomach and like he legitimately seems offended by the idea that people think Victor Weminyama can do anything to his crazy pivotity physical under the rim game and like kind of goes at him a little bit. Yeah. againgain, hasn't proven the range you need to exist with Hartenstein, but has a little bit of the DHO passing like sometimes a three point shot looks good. I think I think it's just too seismic of a change for either team to really contemplate, but it is So like not uninteresting. Yeah, maybe we could do like a brain swap between the two of them because I don't know that I love the skill set swap there that you're having between those two guys. And it would be the rim protection. It would be a hilarious trade because the Thunder, I mean, he wore a Thunder hat on Draft Night and the Thunder traded him right for three I forgot about that butnder He's the Thuerer that wasn't. Yes. And so it would be really funny if somehow they traded the guy who I think, I mean, the Thunderwere after Chet in a big way. And also on draft night, the Thunderr like We We have the chance to draft Shanggoon I think that they thought he would be a good player, but they'd rather have the picks. And so it would be really funny if that happened, but I'm a no on that one too. They love but they also loved Mbiley at the draft Lake. That's not one hundred percent one hundred percent Yeah which is why I pitch you that trade. Yp Yeah, I don't I don't love any of those trades. And I think Thunder are fine Yes, wheninyama ate their lunch a little bit in the series. It went seven games despite both teams are dealing with injuries, right? Fox and Harper definitely trended up by the end of it The Thnder are still pretty young still going to be the number one and number two defense in the NBA Yeah, Wemby's a matchp problem. There's no way there's no person for whom they're not a matchp problem. Janas would address some things complicate other things. U And I just think trading Chet coming off the lowest moment of his career. is like Milwaukee's going to demand a whole lot of other stuff. Yeah. I don't really I don't I don't see I would be pretty surprised if they went that route. So you know what Tough whatever, you lost in seven games in the conference finals. I I let let run it back, make some fringe changes. I think there's enough here. We could be a year from now we could be. I could be in Oklahoma City for game one of the NBA finals. likeike it's that's that's wildly on the table. Yeah, and they have young guys too that they believe will develop in this thunder system. Topitch being one of them like Topitch is a guy that they there's a lot of like internal belief in this guy and like what he could become. And when we talk about them needing extra creation They needed a guy like that. He was obviously not ready for this moment. I'm curious what happens with him and how they find minutes for him. You know, he's entering year three, so he'll be extension and eligible this time next year, which is weird to think about. Um But he's a guy too that they took at twelve that there's a high belief in. he's gone through a lot since he's gotten to the league. He came into the league with the ACL, hit ticular cancer. I mean, the last time I saw him in the locker room, you could still see his port scar. from from Kemo. likeike he's he's gone through a lot. And so I do think that he's somebody too that I don't I don't know that he like totally fits the way the Thunder play But he could be like a super dynamic like G guy on the drive, greatreat passer. when you talked about like getting Chet in the pick and roll, I was kind of imagining him a little bit as one of the guys that if this is like a bench unit Perhaps he could be a guy that could help kind of lead that a little bit because he I think he will be the best passer on the team once he kind of gets integrated. So there there's a lot of things that will happen with this team. They're not going to be the big splashy things. maybe on draft night there is. I do think that that's a possibility that they move up. But if we're talking about like trading for players that like really changed the thunder I don't think that that's where we're headed Yeah, draft night's going to be interesting. for the Thunder, for the bucks, for lots of different teams in the top four, how that is ordered. We have a lot of time to get into. to that with J Kyle Man our guy at the ringer. Andrew Schleck, you're the man like delightful podcast presence grinding all the time down in Oklahoma City. Who knows? Maybe a year from now'll be we'll grab a beer at something in Bricktown or something for aame one of the NBA finals. Thanks, Bud Thank you All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Low Show.'ll be back later this week, including right after game one of the NBA finals. Hopefully that's up Thursday morning, who will be up one hundred.'ll see. Thankks to Moe Dquill, thanks to Andrew Seck. thanks to Jonathan, Michael, Jack and Oscar all on production. And thanks as always to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowhow. See you soon twenty one over and P presresident select states for Kansas in affiation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen and over in Presidenton in DC, Kentucky, Wyoming gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eighty eight seven hundred eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or isisit MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here Visit gamblinghelpline mA dot orga or call eight hundred three two seven five zero fivezero for twenty four seven support in Massachusetts or call one eight seven seven eight Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York for Louisiana, call one eight seven seven, seven seven zero, seven eight six seven