Wembanyama's Public Image and Future

This episode is brought to you by eBay I've been hearing people talking about selling on eBate a lot lately. and honestly, I get it. We all have stuff that no longer fits our lives. And for what I hear Selling on eBay is actually really easy. Just snap a few photos, write a description, set your price. Suddenly the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next. Find what you love, se what you don't on eBay Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. 'twas a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight We feast. An offer you can feast on. seell your car today on Carvana Pick up these many Zach Gow show We are a week away from the NBA draft and there's all sorts of scuttle, but J Kyle manan, the Ringers draft guru is here to sort it all out for us. We talk about the top of the draft. who's Washingon to Washington going to take Is it going to be De Bana? All this Utah noise. there's issues with Bal Kessler are there really Peterson's not going to work out there. Is there a window for Camboozer? To move up to number two, obviously Carlos Boozer works with and for The jazz What does that all mean? How is this top four actually going to shake out? And then we just get into the nitty gritty of a bunch of different guys that Kyle knows very well and I know not very well at all because I just did just enough video to be dangerous and have some hot takes. We talk about the Michigan guys. We talk about all the guards, what are the clippers going to do? What should the clippers do? Should Darius Garland matter in terms of who they draft. like how how much should fit matter? That's a debate for Washington. It's a debate for Utah. We talk all about that. And then Jared Weiss from the athletic is here to put the sppurs season to bed. Did Weby really become a villain? Did it happen that fast? Why did it happen? What happened? How would we grade his performance in the finals What do the spurs do? This summer forget long term. We'll talk about the Dar and Fox question. What did to do this summer to address some of the needs that kind of popped up for them in the finals? What should their finals takeway be. what's the future of this team? How soon are they going to be back? And then all things Wy that's coming up I'm Zach Lowoshow. to the Zach Low show where we are one day away from Croatia's debut in the twenty twenty six World Cup and one week away from the NBA draft, which sadly for me coincides with Croatia's second game in the twenty twenty six World Cup, which I will be attending in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, subopptimal timing NBA. you move the draft back. It's always on Thursday, you move it to a Tuesday. What are you doing to me here, How how are you doing, sir I'm doing pretty well. I wish I had a soccer team to be as enthused as you are. I mean, I guess I'm an American. I guess that's but we're just we're never very guys We guys beat Paraguay Washing best start ever in a World Cup I try to get interested and then, you know, the first half, they put some goals in and I was like, maybe I'll tune in at a halftime. And then they immediately started to kind of hit turbulence and I was like, it was me. It was my fault. So I just turned it off. I'm going to just stand back andick a pick a more karma friendly entry point for the f world. Christ is getting old. We were old last time playlaying England in the first game. We're going to be underdogs in that game. might recall we beat England in the twenty eighteen World Cup semifinals in an absolute thriller one of my favorite sports memories ever. I talk about it all the time. Yeah I'm just saying I'm just saying right now just They're old They have had miracle runs the last two World Cups. theirir luck is due to run out of point. Olook Little Croatia, population three point nine million over look them at your apparel because they seem to find a way. secondecond place in twenty eighteen, third place in twenty twenty two. Okay, Kyle man We're a week out of the draft Everyone is on Yonest watchatch. Yanis swatch could impact the draft, particularly if it ends up being Miami and as of right now at ten fifty four AM Eastern standandard timeim on Tuesday, june sixteenth I don't really have another team other than Boston or Miami that I can say is like confidence that they're truly in on Janis. and I don't know the degree to which Boston is truly in on. I think they're in. I think there's something going on, but it's hard to get a read on Exactly. the machinations are and how serious they are, but Id like the contract and Yonis' leverage here has definitely sort of turn some other teams away. like a team like the Calavves. can't trade Evan Mobbley on the hope that they can convince Yanis to resign there. And there's a bunch of teamsort of in that situation, but we are we will wait And we will see deal ends up being In the meantime, are you ready Portland's not Portland's not a factor anymore I mean, I kind of sniff kicks, yeah I think they'd love to be a factor. theirir owner just was in the Stanley Cup. So he probably riding high thinks he can do no wrong. againgain, if he's not indicating he's going to sign there, I'm not really sure what you can give up. If you're Portland, they always made sense to me as a third team. any any kind of deal because they have some of the Milwaukee draft assets. I always like to Boston does move like does Jail and Brown go to Portland in a connected deal or in a separate deal like it could be a two team deal and then Milwaukee fllips, Jayen Brown later we'll see Um We'll see. We're going to learn arere you ready for the draft? Do you feel prepared It's a it's a long process to get to the point wheret I don't know, that I always say this every year you get to this this stage and you you kind of I always have like a momentary panic where you know, I'm like, oh my God, did I study for the test enough, you know? But then I'm like, it's a gradual build. You watch these guys little, hopefully by this time of year, if you're in my position or you're somebody watching the draft The tape has kind of piled up to the point where I feel like my opinions are set. There' some kind of the playoffs definitely covering it on the group chat show and talking about it step by step the way that we do. it's definitely made me kind of recontextualize some guys and we can get into that there as needed, but yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm ready. I'm ready. Yeah. And I let's commit to something. I've done my annual YouTube just enough knowledge to be dangerous dive on maybe seventeen of the players in the draft. Hanas what's his last name? Hanas Simb Steinbach, my guy Hanna Steinbach. I just watched fifteen minutes of him on YouTube. I got all sorts of hot takes on him. That's where every That's where my post finals life has taken me to Hannas Steinbach YouTube clips. This is what What's your? well, I'm curious, Zach, what's your like, what's your keyword usage? Are you going? what's your entry point? or are you are you doing like University of Washington YouTube page. like there's some there's some W It's more liary than that. I just typed to guys name it and see what comes up Okay. There's a couple of games I've watched. likeike I watched Peterson versus De Bana in high school. I watched that game Let's start there those. Let's start there U The most interesting draft noise that came out this week was this Utah Suttle butt that same Aic reported yesterday. And it was two and Seans reported it as well two connected but not entirely disconnected pieces of information Number one Darren Peterson. will not work out or has not worked out for Utah and plans only to visit slash workout with the Washington Wizards who have the number one pick in the draft I don't think Let's say I know This did not come as a surprise to the Utah Jazz I think of course they would prefer to get everybody who would to be in their draft range in the building for a workout I don't think that tweet came out and they were like, oh my God. I know that tweet didn't come out and they're like, oh my God They knew that this was a possibility and a likelihood And then connect it to that Sam Amk reports that Walker Kessler's early free agency restricted free agency after there was no extension talks are going badly and that there's some sort of fracturing perhaps in the relationship between Walker Kessler, his agents at CIA and the Utah jazz. you put those things together and you start to wonder Is there a world where Camboozer actually goes number two to Utah? Like if Kessler is no longer in their long term plans and I don't think that's the case, but we'll seee. I'm just playing deevil's advocate That's one less big that they are like pot committed to for a long time. And if Peterson is refusing to work out there, well, what if Boozer does work out there? Well obviously they have Carlos Boozer on staff. They know a lot about Cam Boozer. Is there an actual opening for that to happen. Bill has been talking about that for a while I personally all I'm not a draft nick. you are all the scouts I talk to. still expect if they had to bet on it that D Baner goes number one to Washington. I have no idea. It's not like I can call Michael Winger and Will Dakins be like, Hey, guys, who are you taking? I'm gonna do. I'm going I got a podcast in twenty minutes. Let me know who you're taking. Let me know how I can phrase it That's just what other people believe Is that what you believe? And then what do you think of this stuff with number two and Utah and Peterson and Boozer Well, you know, I've caught in wind I've caughton that's not I've caught wind of of Kessler, Utah sort of turbulence. there's that word again where in the past, you know, he had to go down and play Summer League and I know there were discussions about Um I've always kind of sensed that there's been some some back and forth in that relationship that's been tense at times So I think that's a preree existing condition with them. And also his availability' been pretty up and down. And I think you could see some teams across the league who are in need of maybe an asset that could be, quotes distressed, that maybe they think could outperform what they might end up having to pay for him. You know, I've heard teams like the Lakers kicking over him around. But I think Kessler does have some promise as a room protector. So I would be interested to see what the the market for him would be. But you're right. when I saw that, I definitely did the windy fingers and was looking at are they maybe clear you know, freeing themselves up to not be committed to paying this guy if they do end up, you know, going with Boozer. The interesting thing about Boozer if he ended up with the jazz is, you know, you could speak to this part is The Markin and Jaron Jackson Junior and Boozer trio is something that I honestly wonder it could even potentially play together because if you've got the switch ability of Jackson and Boozer Marketing maybe not so much, but both of those guys can kind of attack the basket. They're not guys with like mid range game. I mean, Jackson has a little bit of that push shot in the middle of the lane, but youd be you'd have spacing with marketing starting from the premise of those three big guys, you could be huge. and I think it would be kind of functional on the floor together In so much as you've seen Boozer, would do you see that's than is feasible Okay, so a couple of things The fit versus talent thing is so interesting, even for the first two picks. Like you could make a pretty easy argument Peterson and his skill set is a quote, better fit for Washington than D Bana Washington is so strange because you have to remind yourself, oh my Godd, like Anthony Davis is on the team and Ty Young is on the team. And Alex Sarr just broke his foot. He had surgery and did something to his foot. I can't remember exactly. let's assume he's fine. If you're going to draft Dabana one, he's huge as a three. So you have Dbana Sar Davis. And then a lot of your other big prospects are like Kul Bali is a three for. Keyshaan George is a three four. likeike whos who's the starting two? You just drafted Treay Johnson. I don't know what that would mean for him But and then in Utah, you're talking about like all these big guys I That was a couple of things. U If I were Washington and I really like Darren Peterson and I wanted in my gut to take him I would not be worried about Treay Johnson and how that's going to work and how that's going to fit. They' different players and Peterson is a higher level prospect. just, I'm not worried about it Similarly, An interesting subpot is that the team, formerly Wasserman represents both Chuante George and Darren Peterson And I wonder if they are worried about those two players sort of cannibalizing each other's touches and roles in Utah if the jazz draft Peterson. If I were Utah, I would not be worried about that either. To really talented combo guards who can shoot threes and pass like, Ohh my God, what am I going to do? How am I going to possibly figure that out Um Boozer So there's always a guy I do my fifteen minutes of YouTube just enough to be dangerous. deep shallow dive. It's not a dive. It's like I dip my toe in and the water iss cold and I jump out who I end up liking. way way more than I did before based on very cursory to no college basketball watching. Last year it was Conpple This year it's even a more chopk choice I watch Camp Bzer play one full game in college and came away underwhelmed even though he had like twenty and twelve. and apparently, that's what he does. He underwhelmed and he's like twenty and twelve My I watched like half an hour of film on him. I was like Holy fuck this guy is good. And like I would like I just think he's awesome. I think he should be in the conversation at one to all these top four guys Absolutely incredible. It's why I don't buy any noise about Chicago trading down there. was just like, are they trying to trade? I don't see that happening U Oozer. is so smart and so crafty and has the super high IQ. where his vision and his IQ make him faster and more athletic than he actually is because he's outthinking everybody on the court and he has such a smart sense of anticipation and angles. combine that with a workable three point shot at least in college, a nasty streak, an ability to handle the ball in the pic and roll, screen in the pic and roll. I fucking love that guy. I think he's going to like defensively, I guess there are some questions. Is he a four Is he a five Is he both? I think he's going to walk in and be a really good NBA player. right away And I'm not sure either of these teams anyy of these teams are at the point where they can just be like, well, we have a lot of bigs. we can't take. If you think he's the best, you should take him I just I have no idea if he's going to go to three to Memphis has been the chalk pick. If Utah actually took himit two and resigned Kessler I would be like, okay, they just think Camboo is awesome. I don't really fault them for it U Yeah, B, let's let's talk Boozer here. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Boozer where people see him and they they're lulled to sleep by the when you compare it with the shop making sort of the sexiness of the shotmaking of the Darren Peterson' and the and the athleticism and the size of De Bana and things like that, and those things are all valid and very exciting and those guys. there's a world where all three of these dudes are really good players and all three of these teams All four of these seams at the top or maybe even beyond to come away happy because there's so many good players. But there are some misconceptions about Boozer. They see him. I think they think of his dad. They see back to the basket. It's kind of slow. It's methodical, but you hit on it. It's where this this guy' a high level processor on both ends of the floor. He's a very smart offensive player. I think he's the highest processor of the top five I think he's the best passer in between the guys that are considered the top three And you look at him and his like diet of how he approaches and how he's used is very wide ranging. I mean, he has the post up game. People kind of freted about there was a game against Virginia in the ACC tournament where he got his shot blocked a few times. some caveats to that for the people who point to that one over and over again. Virginia has a couple of ret good rim protectors Yuan on Yenu and then and then Johan Grunlo. I Th those are random names that I could have just made up, But those guys couldn protect the rim. They're pretty good for the college level. And he would play without a point guard. They run everything through him anyway. He was raming his head. He'd been carrying a heavy load. he got a shot. I just don't give a shit. He also has he has a post up games act, but he also has pick and roll game and spot up game that's pretty legitimate, you know, this past year on Let's see. pushing fifty attempts from three on catch and shoots. he was at forty nine percent. He can he ran a lot of four five pic and roll for Duke where he I saw it. It was very exciting He was shoot he shot forty two percent on pull up threes in the pick and roll. So this is a guy that I think as much as people want to stereotype him. He moves better than I think people give him credit for I think you're one hundred percent correct. I was arguing this to bill in House the other day. I think he would make Washington a serious basketball team Immediately. I think and he'd make every player that they have better. thoseose other guys are good, but I I think Boozers a winner. and I think he's going to be a great player for a long time in the im And again, like Washington is has a huge frontline to consider already. Utah has a huge front line to consider already I think Utah is going to make all I don't think Utah is flustered by any of this noise. I don't they just took Ace Bailey where the noise was just like way louder than this. I don't think they expected Darren Peterson to come in. I't think they're surprised that he may not I don't think they care If they think he's the best fit for their team, they're going to take him I think they could even resign Kessler and take Camboozer if they think that's the best course of action for their team short term and long term, by the way fromrom what I've heard They made Walker Kessl. They've made Walker Kessler a pretty Fair offer. An offer I would consider pretty fair, like a dollar amount that I think people would be like, wow,'s he's turning up his nose at that. That's a lot And I think what he's turning up at s at is when O teams began investigating the trademarket for Walker Kessler last year just to kick it around. and I think Indiana was the most high profile of those and it's been reported Obviously then you, some numbers are kicked around theoretically and they're pretty high. And so that's what they found and here we are I think there's an honest intent there to bring back Kessler. I don't I don't think this noise bothers them either. But man, these guys at the draft are at the top of the draft are like awesome. All four of these guys are awesome and all four of them have fans. in every front office of the top four teams I have no idea what the order is going to be. The consensus would seem to be The closest to new consensus would seem to be Dabana Peterson Boozer Wilson Is that is that still like the betting like favorite or the like the Intel favorite order. I think it's more of a top four than people realize just because I think there are a few things that are sort of spoiling the broth, but definitely changing the flavor of the broth. And I think people have their questions about Peterson's U Wh whoo he's going to be on an NBA team? because you know, we talk about this a lot that you want to draft a player just in a vacuum and say this guy, you know, has all these gifts, but or you know, you want to have a player be seen just in a spreadsheet. And it's like it's just not that simple, like their personality, how they're going to mesh with what's there, how hard they're going to be to build around. I think some of those questions about Peterson have been raised about he likes to kind of do his own thing and he wants to be the lead guy. There's a question about Who knows where the stuff about Killante is coming from also. It's just like I I agree with you. I personally wouldn't let Kuante affect my thinking at all in terms of how I'm going Why can't they both be awesome. Like I thoughtante George had an awesome third year for the jazz. He looks like a long term combo guard keeper. likeike why can't they both be twenty point play making scores in the NBA They could both be that, but also I think Peterson's just on another, he's a couple levels aboveQante in terms of his status as what he's capable of as a prospect. But yeah, overall, You keep hearing the consensus that AJ just feels you hear less noise about who he is as a person and things like that. You just don't, there's just not a lot of that stuff out there.. And then Cam, obviously there's no noise. So and you have preferences that differ between, you know, people pin it on the analytics community, but I kind of see that parallel to the way people talk about Yoach whenever they're like, oh, you analytics guys love Yoach. I'm like If you think you need analytics to see how good Camboozer or or Nicolei Yokz are, I just I want to go get your eyes checked. That's what I always say to that. So in terms of the consensus, I don't think I don't personally think there there is a consensus because I think Peterson is the most talented player overall. I think. he has I think he has a first team all NBA, potentially MVP level ceiling as an offensive player Devanta, I think be a first team all and be a guy to. I think all three of them could. So I don't think that there's a consensus. This could r all out a number of ways U and it wouldn't really surprise me. should I tell people all the time If you think you know for sure there's some years you know for sure, right? like Weembinyama, you know for sure. Cooper Flag, you know for sure Just go back to that Banero, Jabari Smith Junior. Ched H homegrren draft where like up until the last second. Jabari Smith Juni. was going to be the number one pick. then the odds did all sorts of crazy things and all of a sudden he fell the third Banero went first. We could be in for one of those sort of like Holy cow, that guy got picked first that absolutely could happen. Um Dana. So he was the first guy that I watched And I remember I texted a scout friend of mine after doing like twenty five minutes. That's it on de Bana who's huge and multi skilled and plays hard and has a nice jumper and a mid range game and all that I texted a scout that I really trust. I was like, manan If if there's a debate about the number one pick Peterson must be fucking awesome And then I watched Peterson and I texted the same scouty and I was like, Hey, turns out Peterson is fucking awesome. That guy is incredible. The way he moves is so smooth. The pull up jumper, the passing vision that maybe as you're indicating, maybe you don't see as much of as you would like as frequently as you would like And obviously, there's the stuff that happen in college and I have heard, I'm not sure you have heard, but I have heard some skepticism about the creatine explanation for his cramping. Some people believe it, some people don't But apparently medically, everyone is like it all checks out whatever it was, everything seems fine. Like I don't think people are that concerned about The cramping or the medical stuff is a long term issue Um, But I watched both of those guys I was like And these guys are awesome. I mean, this is the this whole draft is really, really fun. Like all the guards in the middle of the first round are fun. I watched the Michigan guys yesterday. I was like, man, these guys are fun. I like all these guys Yeah. Yeah, Peterson just It was a weird year just because he didn't really get handed the keys start to finish the way that you would like to see a guy. And some of that is his availability. You know, with he was so in and out of the lineup that they were using him as sort of a supplementary granted a really damn talented supplementary piece that was moving on and off the ball Um He can run pick and roll, man. He can make every read. I've seen him make these plays. I've seen him play high level competition. This is something that, you know, His dribble to shoot like fluidity, like the smoothness of his ability to pick up his dribble and get to his jumper is high level. I mean, it's it's at the level of some of the guys you see at the top of the league. So, so smooth. He gets he's got crazy mid range game. He's got all kinds of c creative overhanded kind of floaters runners, things like that He can improvise when he's in the air Stong I think he can do kind of whatever he wants to do with his physique. I just think he's a really impressive, smooth athlete. And I think AJ is a little my evolution of the way that I've thought about him has been interesting because I saw AJ at like sixteen, fifteen, sixteen years old. and I was like, oh, this this guy' a like blow you out of the water. I'm just so much more explosive than you And as I got watching him and maybe it was his peers catching up with him athletically, I think that kind of starts stopping ness of his game is really where his bread and butter is going to be. Like I think he's more like Shay than he is people keep like D like Peterson compares himself to Shay. I actually think physically De Bonser reminds me a little bit more of Shake because he's just his rhythms hard to grab onto. He's big and strong. He can get to his spots and I think he could be a pretty A pretty good defender at the next level too I would be stoked to get any of these guys. The Blls are sitting there at four being like look, whoever whoever we get we get and Clea Wilson I mean, the entire thirty minutes of YouTube is just c one crazy athletic play after another Um I think there's like I assumed watching him that he'll be a four in the NBA and maybe like a super small ball five I what I think there are some people who like have faint hopes that he can be a three in some scenarios. likeike I did not see much of that, but I don't know what his ceiling is. in terms of a shooter Playmaker, but I just think I would be shocked if any of these teams trade out of the top four spots. It would have to be such a godfather offer and from whoever it would be. Oklahoma City is the one everyone's talked about. I just, I don't see it, but again, who knows what can happen? Yeah it's just so unusual to get this to get one of these guys in a given year. it would be, you know, really coveted, obviously to have to have the opportunity to be in the top three and get one of them. Yeah, I'm not passing this up. I don't think that there's to start from square one with one of these guys who you can build around in a real way and you could build a playoff level team, I think around all three of these guys Lgitimately. and you're talking about Caleb Wilson The three conversation, his handle is the thing and this is true of a lot of prospects that you know, development just kind of is developmental roads are paved by ball handling and, you know, and I think that it's possible for Caleb to kind of evolve to the point where he could play the driving kick game, but a lot of his dribbling right now is like You know, I pounded a couple times. you're on my back. I pounded a couple of times. you know, he's playing like that. He is great It'll be I'll be curious to see how much beyond him just kind of occasionally creating for himself because he likes to kind of go stationary in that fifteen foot range. and get to his, you know, his his jumper and he can elevate over guys The real selling point for me is that I think he has the highest defensive ceiling of these four players He covers a lot of ground. He has crazy like out of area potential in terms of like plays that he can affect. He can just swoop in from the rafters and erase mistakes And I think his switch ability could probably go onene through four. I mean, he's probably going to have a hard time when like bigger fives like body him, but legitimately and D Bona has crazy wide range as does Boozer, but I think the the ability to erase mistakes Wilson is on another level athletically with his tools And the thing about Memphis and Chicago is they're almost like quite blank slates, but I don't think that they have to worry about nearly as much, like For instance, there's all this buzz that Memphis loves boozers that climb. It's a Duke guy, Duke Duke, duke. Let's just say Utah takes Uoozer at two Okay, so I get Darren Peterson like there's no what like I don't like Oh does I don't care about how we fits with Joh Morran. I'm trying to trade Joh Morant. Like Cedric Howard and Zach Edy are the main young guys that we have. like I'm I'm fine with that and Chicago is like zeus is the most important player on the team long term. And he's like a three, four and can ret malleable. likeike I think that's what's interesting about both By the way, Chicago, we should mention they hired Tiago Slitter as their head coach Um, I'm happy for Diaga S spplitter. I think he did a really nice job in Portland sort of molding. a strange and unwieldy set of parts on both ends of the floor. I've maximized his center rotation. I thought found a way for Scoot Henderson to kind of thrive toward the end of the season by simplifying his role in his decision making. just it showed a level of flexibility stability But also a demandingness on defense that I think is a nice foundation for a young coach who's building a pretty solid track record in Europe and here and fits the bulls timetable. So I think that's a smart hire for the bulls. and it's like a nice encouraging start to the Bryson Graham regime All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll do some more draft stuff This episode is brought to you by State Farm The best passers see every angle of the floor to make the perfect assist and State Farm is no different. They know the game inside and out and look at every angle to help set you up with a plan that fits your life and budget. Get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability and eligibility vary by state Okay, before we get back to the draft, we're going to do some quick takes on the finals and this moment, this NBA moment is presented by State Farm. Okay, Kyle man, I have four quick takes on the finals. Are you ready Yes Number one Look. I've wax poetic about the Nicks. and their sixteen and three playoff record and their point differential being the best of all time in the playoffs and how it matches up the only comps playoff On stat wise are like the greatest teams in history of the NBA. I just want to make it very clear. I thought it was so obvious that it didn't need to be said, but I will say it. The twenty twenty six Nicks are not one of the greatest teams in the history of the NBA. to be in that conversation, you have to do both. You have to have the great regular season and the great playoffs. They are a fun team They had an all time playoff run. They're going to be an all time beloved championship, all time memorable championship team similar to the twenty eleven Mavericks. They did have an all time great playoff run, but anyone who thinks that that's the same thing as being in the conversation with like Jordan Bulls and the Durant Warriors and the eighties Celtics and Lakers. that's I thought it was so obvious and it didn't need to be said It is said Number two, take number two, this is what I want your take on. shaking hands after the finals And whether this is part of the Webonyama, the burgeoning Wbonyama villain narrative that everyone is like rushing to make happen. it has some there's some villainy in there I don't care at all about shaking hands after the finals. I can't believe that anyone actually cares. I know hockey has attrition. That's cool Basketball doesn't really have like a hard and fast tradition of this. E the coaches kind of wave to each other after games and say goodbye This is not the pistons who walked off the floor while the game was still going on because they didn't even want to acknowledge that the bulls had superseded them which by the way eleven year old, thirteen year old me, whatever age I was, thought that was cool as shit that the pistons did that. I's kind of badass and I still kind of like it. I don't care at all that some members of the Surds, including Viictor Wiama didn't shake hands I didn't realize this was a requirement. This isn't Little League He was pissed off and It's not like he hit someone or threw the something off the scores table just walked off the flor. do you care about this? A I Am I being too cold hearted Which well, which is it? because we hear all these people complain about we want what we want is what you're talking about is we want those we want the teams to dislike each other. We want the theater of that. You hear people just complain o these players, they like they like each other too much. It's not like in my day. It's like, Well you just got what you want. So I don't know which faction is complaining about that. Also Victor is there's a little bit of a different fraternity fraternizing kind of element here with the European guys where They don't necessarily they're not as tight as the American dudes are because after these games a lot of times you see people hugging and dapping it up and you're just like, they have some kind of history. They run in the same circles, whatever it is I don't know. Victor kind of runs in his own circle. I don't feel like that's a mysty. He's he's kind of his own guy. Maybe eventually he'll I don't know what his fr Do you see him as somebody that has other friendships in the NBA beyond like his teammates or and the other French guys? I like I hope he has a lot of friends and a great social life. I just really could not care any less if he shakes hands with the team after the finals. I don't care. and I don't think anyone should care Take number three This is something I've been thinking a lot about as I go to these very tense playoff games 's we do all these things where there's like some variable and you're like there's two types of people in life. There's people who do this in this situation and people who do that in that situation. And sometimes I actually believe that there's a line of demarcation and like I could get with these people, but not these people. I'm going throw one at you An's two types of people, two types of sports fans in life There are sports fans of a team in an incredibly intense game At the end, when your team's losing. this is a circumstance where our team iss about to lose like a incredibly intense finals game. There's ten seconds left. We're down by five. We're about to go down three two in the finals or about to be eliminated And I get showone on the jumbo tron There's two types of human beings. There's human being number one who sees themselves on the Jumbootron and just is so excited to be on the Jumbotron that the context of the game goes away and they start dancing and smiling. And then there's a guy number three who either number two who either doesn't even notice that they're on the Jumbootron or sees that they're on the Jumpatotron and is just like Does't Change is just so immersed in the misery of the game that they don't even want to be on the jumpo tron. I think that's a line of demarcation. and if you are a jump Ultron like, oh my God, if the Jump Utron supersedes the game and the result that's happening to you, I think that we can't be friends. I only we want to be friends the miser the miserable people I think we're both number two categories. I was joking with somebody about this the other day. If I'm at a game and this is just I'm there's only one team in the world that has the privilege of making me miserable. I always say, but You better ye, I'm not in the mood for that kind of thing. I'm, you know, and I only want to be in the I know if you're I don't know if you're like this Zach, but I only want to be in the company, especially in a big game like that people who are equally crazy as I don't I'm so hard like hardlined about it where like if you're just sort of lukewarm, I don't even want you at the viewing event with me. like because for big games, You know, I want I want it to be among people who are on the same level as me. So no, I don't want to be on the jumpo Tron. I'm going to turn away. don't want any of the part of the out of If I'm at City field and the Mets are down three two in the worldld sereries and we're down to our last two outs and I get on the jumpo trron, you're going to see an insane person who doesn't want to be on the Jumpbleo Tron and is just like weeping, biting biting my jersey hugging someone next to me in fear of what's going to happen. Okay, takeake number four. this is just very important. I got to get this off my chest Like six months ago, I just had a random aside on this podcast about how If I get called by the wrong first name even by people who know me and it's just like an accidental malfunctioning of their brain one hundred percent of the time, not eighty percent one hundred percent The false name is Josh And I don't know I said, I don't know what it is about Josh and Zach linguistically. They're both four letters Josh ends in H, most Zacks, some Zacks end in H. I end in H. I don't know what it is The flood of texts I got from other Zacks Zack's in the NBA. Zach's not in the NBA that I know. who have experienced the same phenomenon was like a tsunami. It was overwhelming And I say this only because last week I was at a coffee shop. Nar Madison S square guarded ordering a coffee on the way to between the games. I don't know what they was And this guy comes up to me and he's like, Hey Zach Lo And normally, not that this happens a lot, but what's going to ensue is a basketball conversation. likeike, Hey, what do you think's going win the finals, blah blah He just goes Zachlo, big fan of listen your podast I'm I'm also a name Zach and the Josh thing is one hundred percent true. It happens to me all the time. And then he just walks away. That's the only thing you wanted to talk. You didn't want to have a conversation. He just wanted to let me know that he felt seen as a Zack slash Josh. I don't understand it. This is someone needs to study this. Oh my go, that's my state time and be able That's akay That's a Malcolm Gladwell series. I feel like. No, I get Kevin. That's the one, but that's okay that's okay That makes sense. I can explain that one. Okay, then the draft really gets funky at five with the clippers and all these guards and then Land and then Landeborg comes in I watched some film on Landabborg To say that I like that guy's an understatement. He seems very fun And then I just watched a bunch of guys. I watched Nate Aent because he seems to be quite polarizing. cameame away a little bit underwhelmed Uh Flemings, tellell me about Kingston Flemings because I watched him and I was like, Ooh, this dude is clever. I like this guy. He can shoot. He's got some pop off the floor creative. He plays it like and a rhythm that is just a little bit off the traditional beat in a good way that seems to catch defenses off guard with this passing I wass like, he looks pretty small. Let me look up his measurements. Its like o Ohh yeah, he's pretty small. I don't know what to do with all these guards. A cuff is super small and obviously spectacular. Mcill Brown junror. me as a little bit of a chucker, but a chucker who can make extremely long threes. likeike I don't know, what should pick any of these guys? What should I know about them Let's talk let's talk about Kingston. I mean, u Yeah, my arc with him is fell in love. I mean, watching him. he has a rhythm that it's not It's not that it's really hard to like to latch ont to. He's pretty incendiary in terms of his top end speed. like incendiary I mean, he's in the open court, I mean, there's very much a Maxie kind of a vibe and there's a joy to the way that he plays that you just enjoy watching him. I mean, he gets the spots in a straight line. That's why I thought of Maxie a lot where you know, he would do that. And then in the mid range, you know, the shots a little odd. It's kind of it's a little bit of a towny shot where you're like,h, that's going in. I don't I always say towny shot because I've had this experience growing up. I don't know if you had this where there was always the dude at the park who was a little older who just made every single shot, but it was like a little odd. So I always just call it a towny shot, but it's He gets in the le and his elbows are a little angled, but he's a bucket in the mid range. He has a dribble pull upp speed that's really fast. I think he's a very competitive player. He's strong I kind of got to the point where I was worried about him watching the playoffs, quite frankly because I was like, I don I don't know how much of a load bearing piece this guy can be if he's going to be an automatic target But U If you look at some of the guys who survive in the playoffs he's very engaged. He's a really smart player. Like I said, he's competitive. I don't think he'll get picked on as much as as you would think. So what's your what's your initial impp? He's really a passer to. that's another thing. offffensively like a lot of these guys like I particularly ACuff and Flemings. I can see and Waggler too. I can see like, okay, I see like this guy can be the engine someday of a very good NBA offense. L they're just multi skilled. they can shoot. they could shoot off the dribble But to your point Like I got a lot of text from GMs and front office people, particularly during the Thunder Spurs series about like Hey, how many guys on this team or that team do you think could actually survive physically in this series? It was less about like the defensive acumen and the decision making. It's just like These series are so physical and some of these guys are so big Like are there are there good players that you just think like, I don't know if they could play in this series And and then on the flips side, now we're going to have this on rush of like Here's a team that just won the title with a six foot nothing guard. defensive liability as its best player. And I think that likeike is that going to affect the draft stock of any of these small guards I'm not really sure that it should because Brunson is a one of one in terms of footwork. He's also just like phhysically very, very strong tough And to the point of the whole Becky Hammond debate and the position I took on it back in the day D Nicks built a team where they just surrounded him with absolutely giant wing players and bigs all over the floor to protect him and trained him in hedge and recover and don't get switched ont to unfavorable by matchups and the spurs could not get him switched and nobody could really get him switched. So I'm not I think all those guys like are anomalies but I do wonder sort of D what you're hearing about the sort of backack and forth between the playoff viability question for small guuards that you've talked a lot about with Bill and the sort of well, we just saw this small guard lead his team to the title. Like how does that all interact for you God, it's The guys that can survive, you know, the last time Bill and I talked about, it was like I used the term superpower that, you know, you look at the players in the in the finals. I mean, the smallest guys that played. Alvarado got spot minutes. Alvarado is a pretty hyper defensive processor. He has pretty incredible hands on defense like steel percentage through the roof when he was coming out of college and And it was like, okay, this guysy This guys probably has a chance to be a rotation player, but just very smart and he compresses really efficiently into a small role. That's another thing. It's like, how how much how much how productive can you be if you're not the load bearing piece because not every player is capable of doing that. It's a good Joson just his his two footedness in the in the lane is just Really special. like being able to play and that's something that Villanova teaches quite frankly is like, you know, Jay Wright that's a big part of their program is they teach guys to play off of two feet in the lane. So I think you get the combination of that I think he grew up around basketball having Bob McKill, the guy that coaches Davidson. He would always make this point about Steph Curry that There are certain players that grow up in environments where they just see enough basketball. on a day to day basis that it just trains their eyes to almost be quick twitch where they can sort through problems really quickly. And I think Brunson's one of those guys who has just learned to survive. I always say that he he knows the consequence of every just kind of micro movement within the game. He had several moments like that in the finals. I know you brought up one where he got into the lane. He just knows like what my the weight of what my eyes can do in a given moment, push here, you know, he's just very, very educated on that front and has like a slowo game. In terms of like paint guys in this draft I, you know, I think people are going to draw parallels to Darius A cuff as a scoring focus because Brunson is a scoring focus guy, but they're very different. Like a lot of what ACuff does is like dribble pull up He has some runners in his game. But he doesn't like set up shop in the paint the way that Brunson does. Like I don't really I don't see them as super similar. I think he's a better passer than Brunson at the same age. But offensively I see those guys is pretty different. Have you watched much A Cuff I did and it was a couple of weeks ago and I saw like the the smoothness, the decision making, the change of pace, like all that stuff is just screams like this guy's an awesome offensive player. But he's six two with a six six wingspand and you just wonder sort of, how does that? How does that really translate to the league? And I don't, I mean, all of these teams from The clippers at five to, you know I mean, all the way down to Milwaukee at ten have very interesting decisions to make about these players. And I don't I don't necessarily know What I mean, I think Bures is very interesting because he got fewer onball reps. I think than a lot of the other guys, but plays seem to me anyway on the tape play a little bit bigger than his I think what is he listed at six four. I think he seemed to play a little bit bigger, bigger than that to me Um But it' be just all so different Can we hit on the clippers here? because I think this is something you'll be able to pse pretty well, like the If you're the clippers, And you're thinking about Darius Garland as you go to this trouble of getting him. I mean, and you you how how much do you assume he is like a central piece of what they do Um, and how much do you think that that's going to affect who they pick at five Because There's some of these guys here They are you creating problems for yourself Based on the discussion we just had about the playoffs about like these guys are hard . move forward with in the playoffs. likeike can you add another small guard that's like going to get picked on if you already have Darius Garland as your central piece of what you're trying to do? I guess the the flip side of that quest. So are you talking about A cuff there or justuff talking about Kingston Flemings tal are you are you courting disaster a little bit if you try to stock I know they're like defensive liability in a small guard because those are the guys who were implied kind of at five. That's why I had burryes there because I thought bures could cover for Garland in a lot of ways. S So I would flip the question almost the other way of like I don't I don't I think they would love for Garland to be central to their long term plans. I don't think he is yet because he just got there and he has to stay healthy. You also mentioned the trouble they went to get him I don't think they went too much trouble The James Harden thing was not going to last. This was the best kind of talent play they would get for James Harden So I don't really think Darus Gcarland should necessarily impact my decision making if dead set on like this particular guy, but the reframing the question, I would say are all of these guys in terms of upside talent? like I might just like one of the bigger guards better anyway. And so I don't even have to think about this question. And I think based on my very cursory knowledge of these guys and your very deep knowledge of these guys I think there's a reasonable argument that like Ke Wagwagler might just be better than these guys and Brandon Buress might just be a better player regardless of fit than these guys. I don't know, but If I'm the clippers and I think that like I'm just pumped to take one of these other guys Have you seen Woggler much I have again, it was a few weeks ago and I did my my and heat He was a strange one. Like initially I was like, his rhythm is kind of weird. He looks he's tall and he's lanky and like you know there's these Halliburton comps and I didn't quite see the the sort of real quick passing decision making that Halliburton makes, but the more I watched the more I was like, all right, it's like this and the sccouts I trust really like him Wagler is a technician in ball screen in a way that like when I think about the other players in this draft, U he could go, you know, he and Michael Brown are kind of cut from the same cloth and that they're like triple pull up guys. they're wispy frames. but Michael is a lot more evasive. He doesn't have the like drag you into the minute of movement kind of thing because like Wagler when I watch him, he's super creative in Like his screen rejects, like he's he's just methodical in the way he's you watch those guys. He's like, I'm going to get you to make contact with this screen. It's not I'm not in a hurry to do it. You'll watch him like he'll he'll pull his guy to the left and just be like, I'm really purely just doing this because the screen's coming behind you and I'm going to spin the other way. He's he's just a technician about how he gets into the paint. And then the other side of that is he has ess like energy transfer at great distance. like when he's pull like his jump shot is so effortless. And I think his range, he's going to be able to he doesn't have to be purely on ball. That's the thing I love the most about him is and he has great size. So He's not a great athlete. That's the other thing. If he gets to the if he gets to the you know, the lane and things like that. he's going to be trying to shoot floaters. He's going to be trying to get you into the air, pick up fls. I love the speed at which he plays. I think the athleticism question is valid. If I weren't worried about that, I would be doing that in a heartbeat if I were the cllippers because That would be a fun back court. They're going shoot the shit out it You have Mikuel Brown junior ten and I think you're going to update this soon. And we talked about one of the guys who's going to move up to some degree is Morez Johnson at Michigan and I watched all the Michigan guys because everyone is very intrigued with Mara. Um and Landerberurg, but Mara because of his size of the holy cow, that dude is giant and can really pass and has nice touch You know, we'll see how his sort of strength holds up. and his defensive speed and all that as you've pointed out. But you have Michuel Brown ten. Is he going to is he going to stick in that range? Is he going to move up move down when you when you do your thing I don't M him moves much for me. I do have some worries about him. he the north south of his game just concerns me the book ends as I like to put it where I wonder about how consistent he's going to be as a drible pull up shooter He can get hot I don't I just don't feel like his ball looks as easy as Wagler. Wagler has like a beautiful like launch angle and spin on his shot his shots. fall at the rim and see a bigger target than Mike Kell a lot of times in my opinion. And then the finishing kind of concerns me too. Now he can make live durable passes with both hands. He does a lot of great things. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust. It's just I kind of like the intangibles and the bankable skills that Wagler has more. You want to talk about the Michigan guys? Yeah, I get why everyone is in Tamara. he's he's big. he's a voracious reboundnder. He's a really nice passer. Everyone wants size in the WB world and what his standing reaches like nine nine or something insane like that. one of the biggest ever. And then then there's the minutes concern U there's the the shooting concern like he's a bad foul shooter and just sort of like, you know, he he actually moved his feet better in high drop defense against some quick guards on the film than I than I expected. But obviously the NBA is a different level, but he seems to have some obviously transferable skills Marez Johnson seems like all over the map to me in terms of what people think about him. Um U, is he just like a I don't like he's switchable, tenacious eats at the rim, played all over like Pled Center Played next to Mara, played the three of them together just ginormous Landerberg, Johnson and Mara together Um you know, people just question like is the upside really like I like Like I threw Murray Boyes at some people and they're like he's not going to be that level of defender in terms of switch ability versatility. But but I kind of like what I saw The Murray Boyiles thing is interesting because Colllin's a little smaller Michigan was such a unique college basketball team this past year because I can't really remember many times. when a team has had a sixty nine guy that could get out and sit down and at the point of attacking guard and move the way that Lindeborg did. he took on some of the toughest decisions like the toughest assignments in the in the big team' he's nasty man. like he is absolutely now He shot it decently, right? If I'm remembering right, you shot it like pretty decently He's up around forty percent. I mean, catch it shoots. I mean, I don't really know about him creating off the dribble, but then just to have but to have him and then to have Marez Marez can also kind of get out there and sit down and move. I've heard people say more Less volatile beef stew kind of Isaiah Stewart' another one that comes up except the rim protection is not at the same level. So I don't really know what what what is Isaiah Stewart without the rim protection at that level. I don't really know Most of his offense is kind of run jump dunk right now. I mean the stuff around there's not much craft around the basket at this point the three the three ball someday is possible. I mean, you could maybe get him on like an attempt an attempt and a half a game at like mid thirties, possibly, I think, but I don't know that he's ever going to be like a pure stretch for The selling point on him is Great motor. Everything that I hear about Mores Johnson is just that this kid is a worker that almost has to be like reined in a little bit where they're like, okay, like it's you know, he he's very enthusiastic. He's going to get better. His motor awesome, G kid from what I' saying and defendense his ass off. He's he doesn't have and this is a big thing for me Zach. I was talking about like point guards scaling into smaller roles There guys moreore guys than you would even think is true just from having conversations around the, you know, with people around the league where Just a self sabotaging lack of self awareness about who you are as a player can just derail careers. And if you see guys who are conscientious about, I think Louke Cornet iss an incredible example of this. Luke Cornett came into the league as He was a stretch five or at least an he aspired to be a stretch five tried to make him one. That' and it changed his care giving up on that changes saved his career. The Nicks tried to make him one for a little bit too J a sober sense of self goes a long way. and I don't Morez does not have self sabotaging sort of ideas of who he is as a player. So I think you're going to get a lot out of him. I think he's going to do his job U But the defense is the thing. When I was watching like this firstpur Thunder series, I was just like, you could throw Morez out there play four five for either team either team And and I' thought that the sppurs I'd be I'd be looking to Morez if I were them. That That's a guy that I think would fit some of the physicality needs they have. Yeah, that's a great. That's a great call. I like that a lot. Now. he's not going to be there where they pick, right? What are they Probably not probablybably. iet Well, you know, it's not He seems to be rising based on what I've heard, but I don't know how high. The rise actually is. But his defense is very interesting and like I Just again, based on very limited knowledge, like I see Steinbach rising a lot in the draft I am more confident in Morez Johnson playing twelve minutes in a playoff game right now than I am. u hanas, but maybe I'm just watching watching the wrong games and film They honest is like a really, really special rebounding prospect. So I think in this like possession war that we've kind of entered into. Um, that's that's something that's going to work in your favor. I think he's got a little more potential to stretch the floor than Merez does U But yeah, I mean, he, I think I think Steinbach can King move a little bit better than he gets credit for, but I think Morez has him on that front Where is Landeborg being picked if he's twenty and not almost twenty four because I didn't find a lot not to like. He's a little This is your wheelhouse. He's a little He looks a little stiff to me in the way he moves around, like a little upright and a little stiff like with the dribble, but I don't I don't know that it matters and I loved everything else that I saw, including a nasty streak that I really enjoyed too Yeah, he he's competitive, obviously. he you're talking about the stiff thing. I mean, That is something like the way guys move. I like obsessed over that and'm I'm just like, you know Do you bend at your back or do you bend at your knees kinds of things It's interesting because he's able to really, really get low and he's like laterally mobile. His hips are really mobile to be able to guard. I mean, he guarded Wagler in that game and did a really good job. He guards quick guards all the time out there at the front at the point of attack. But you're right, maybe it's just a matter of he just needs to get lower with his dribble and his to work on that. if he's ever going to be a creator I think just kind of attacking single coverage one on one kind of things. I don't know that I'll ever see him as like a facilitator. Zach, he's got one of the more interesting developmental stories. you talk about the age I went back and traceed this last year because I had him pretty high last year. I thought if he'd and he wanted to come back and like narrow his range and elevate it and he did that. He, you know, that's that's an argument for coming back even if you're fringe top twenty these days. He didn't start play playing serious organized basketball until he was like out of high school. So you can go back and watch this. I need to make a video of this. He went and played junior college ball couldn't really do anything. He was like almost twenty years old. It almost reminds me of like the story you see here about Pascal Siacum about just how much he rocketed upwards He was basically a below the rim Dunker spot for in junior college. and we're talking in like twenty twenty. He goes he just slowly like the next year he's running ball screens for them. He's shooting threes. You watch him again It was just like watching I don't know. I think I made the comparison. It was almost like watch a science fiction movie where like an alien lands on the planet and every time they go back to check on the alien, it's like grown by like fifty percent. You're just like, oh my God, it's going take over the world. And then by the time he gets to UAB, he's just this toolsy do everything guy. And I was like, okay, maybe the shot will come around. I want to see that. I want to see some of these things translate at the high major level And he goes to Michigan and just like curb stomps everybody and wins the national title. So it's been a very, very fascinating thing. So I think when you judge his age curve He has yet to stagnate So this guy' going to be I think he's going to be a high quality role player and still continue to climb Well, we got a week to go before the draft. I may have to have you come on again because I'm just learning all these guys and you're the expert. But Jay Kle man, we got group chat. We got the ringer draft guide. anything else we got we got cooking I mean, that's enough We're updating the mock Draft. We're updating the, you know, the big board. and yeah, we'll have a lot more content on the pod side coming. It's going to be coming fast and furious I can't wait for the updated big board. Now I'm invested. Now I'm in. now I have hot takes on all these guys. I'm in Kyle Ban, thank you, sir This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia L Duncin Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact You swing. to make history. I'm interested is who what Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live. from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile Home rununs be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck. The first N dries it It's a Chevy person Probably no one. 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Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets, which expiire seven days after receivet restrictions applies see full terms at fan dool dot com slash sportsbook G gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred my reset.am All right We've celebrated the next the fifty three year drought ending. My love of New York City, all of that. It's time to talk about the other side of the finals. The San Antonio Spurs and from the athletic, a guy who's moved to San Antonio and has just been killing it ever since Jared Weiss. How you doing, sir? Amazing. ammazing. I got sleep last night, I can't believe it Unbelievable. Okay, the sppurs. Bitter ending to the finals. for one Total point deficit of what minus twelve, I think for the entire series Games in their hands in their destiny, game two and game four in particular, game four, the OGN and Oi Tip will linger forever Five game loss, Victor Wnebinamas says we were dominating most of the series. He's wrong, but whatever. justust there it's a bad way to end the season. It's a bitter taste in their mouth But zooming out Obviously, we know they're ahead of schedule. They won sixty whatever games this year. They dispatched the Thunder in seven on the road. for the playoffs. they had a net rating of plus eight point one for one hundred possessions before the finals that was at plus eleven Um And they had the third best offense and second best defense in the playoffs overall offense fell precipitously in the playoffs, like by a gigantic amount League wide U Victor finishes for the playoffs twenty four points. eleven rebounds, two and a half two point seven assists two point seven turnovers, four point five stocks. Surs plus thirteen per one hundred possessions with Victor on the court minus two with him off the court Castle, solid playoffs, bad ending in game five Dill in Harper, pretty awesome playoffs all the way through Two lightning rod guys Dere and Fox and six Mand of the year, Keldon Johnson who's up for an extension This summer I mean, like this netss out as I just personally Jared like This nets sound is an obvious positive for the Surs. W be most dominant defense player on the planet, translated to the playoffs And for the league to see Weemby Get to the precipice and emerge with some scars with a gaff in game two, that's going to be replayed forever. with some flagrant fowls that were called and others that weren't called and others that might have been reviewed and retroactively called emerging as a villain like a legit New York sports villain. Like the hate for him in New York is real U I think's great for the NBA. I think it just taps into like the literary nature of, you know, you got to get beaten up a little bit first before you come back and I just think You know, it's all looking up for this firstur, but what would be your big picture sort of takeaway I mean, listen, the Nicks themselves clearly hate them too. L that was pretty apparent. They' The vilification of Victor is going to be fascinating as it plays out over the offseason because The thing that I think we've learned about Victor is him him being a little ahead of schedule and in a little bit over his head with the finals, not surprising. It was the way that his provravado The way it was experienced and interpreted by others and the way that it channeled him was really interesting where he lacked urgency a lot of the time and the Spurs team overall lacked urgency a lot of the time And the irony is I feel like Fox was the one guy that reliably seemed to have a feel for how much intensity the series required, but his shot was just so off in the series that mostost of what he tried to do didn't work. and so it made him look bad. But he also, I think, deserves some credit for the fact that He seemed to understand that their offense was in b thatad shape the entire time. And that was something that I don't think Victor really understood And so we really come out of this seeing, listen, the way to use Victor as a tool within your team on both ends is still clearly incredible. And it's what got them to that point They faceed a team that was pretty much playing perfectly, even if it was imperfect a lot of the time. Like the Kicks had the balance of a championship caliber team and the spurs they had so much balance, but what they didn't have is what's at the heart of that, which is you need a great player that could just get to his spots and own those spots. And Brntson did that at historic proportions in the series and like I don't know what he finished with field goal percentage wise, but he owned every single game at the end, basically. And that was something that Victor couldn't do. He does not have spots and shots yet that are like Unflappable in a final setting and they're good enough to get them to that point, but it just wasn't good enough to get over the hump By the way, before we I do want to mention like I mentioned the sppurs were third offense, second defense, second net rating plus eight one. It's been mentioned by everybody that the Nicks had the greatest net rating and point differential in the history of the NBA postseason Maybe it goes without saying and so it hasn't really been said. They were first in offense and first in defense for the playoffs. Like I don't think a lot has been talked about the N next defense, but but they were just outrageous on both ends of floor. That is just leave that over to the side. I want to talk about Victor and exactly what you just said I'm going I went through the tracking data on Genius IQ and I'm going to read you some stuff that stood out to me and Regular season Victor set twenty three ball screens per one hundred possessions, according to Genius PQ on offense In the playoffs Th finals, that number jumped from twenty three to thirty five per one hundred possessions. Remember doing per possession. So like the minutes increase is baked in. this is how big the increase was and in the finals when the go going got real tough for their offense forty five per one hundred possessions double his regular season rate Before I get to the efficiency stats, What do you make of that of the Surs offense just clearly becoming This is the entire thing that we're building it out of. Is that about The guard makeup? Is that about? Good mayaybe in Victor's offensive game Is it about the Nick defense? Is it all of the above because that is That's a massive, massive increase and it shows that their offense really came down to variations on one theme, which is Victor rolling to the rim And sometimes popping and let me tell you, every defense in the league is like just breathing a sigh of relief when he pops instead of rolls It's I think it starts with that it has to utilize their guard playay They have three downhill guards that once they get into the paint usually can own that possession And then they either have Viictor rolling behind the coverage and they go over the top. or the sell and chimanney are wide open. That's that was their bread and butter throughout the year But then I think getting to the solving the issues for the future The significance of all this is just that Victor couldn't own the post. And he doesn't he doesn't have the pinch post face up yet where he can catch at eighteen feet and he can reliably get into the pain from there. He was trying and there was a play like I think you like later in the fourth quarter in game five where he just finally went through point of attack defense on the midpost and he got into the paint and he I think it was when he got fouled And it was just finally this like, oh, wow, he's finally actually fighting through. instead of just trying to get the edge where he's comfortable. It was about just pushing through whatever the defense was giving him to fight for that spot to get to because you know, once he gets two feet to paint, he usually can rise up or he can step through But the other part was like he didn't seem comfortable holding the ball in the paint and trying to pivot and find that opening that he was really good at doing earlier in the playoffs, but really just mostly in the regular season. And so because he doesn't have the post up technique and strength to really establish deeper position against guys like Towns in Robinson becausecause they really had trouble getting him cross matches on the smalls. like there were like One or two possessions I can remember where he got Josh Hart and he tried to post it up And the team was ready to try to enter the ball into him. It was just so hard for them to get the offense organized to where they could get a clean entry pass into to him. deeper in the post with a mismatch or he could draw an actual double and pass out of it. I think it's a credit to the Nicks defense that they disrupted the movement around the perimeter so well for San Antonio that San Antonio never really got comfortable entry options to get him the ball into the post. And then he just isn't at a point yet where he can like really work Townser Robinson deeper into the paint before he catches the ball Yeah, I mean and I mentioned like like rolling to the rim is really, really hard. And Victor is a guy who sprints the floor both ends and has an enormous amount of responsibility and defense. And he faced a very savvy. I talked about this with Sean Fantasy the other day faced a very savvy Nick team and Nick offense that was going to make him work and drag him up from the paint as much as they possibly could or isolate on him from the corner. They were just going to make him work and work and work and bet on him tiring out at the end of games, which I think happened And rolling to the rim forty five time I mean he's not rolling every time, but forty five ball screens per one hundred possessions double your regular season rate is a gigantic workload and not all the screens were good. That got a lot of scrutiny during the final Stban Gundi was on it right away of just like he's not hitting people enough and then he would start hitting people and that takes a physical toll. but I'm going to reach you the efficiency stats now. Regular season when he set twenty three point three ball screens per one hundred possessions The sppur scored one point one four points directly out of those ples. So that means either the guard shoots or Victor shoots or one pass away. shhoots That was number two in the entire league ammong let's see, one hundred and seventeen guys who had at least four hundred picks. Number two Number one was LeBron James Food for thought Pos for possession, so you zoom out. just includar if it's two, three, four passes, but it really starts with the Wy roll that leads to everything one point three zero six Number one in the entire league out of that entire sample of one hundred and whatever guys In the finals, the Nicks, those numbers got lower in the playoffs, but were still pretty good. And in the finals, the Nicks got it down to zero point nine five points per direct play and one point one nine points per possession. manageable numbers. I think just indicative of Pysical play being all loted by the refs smmart defense, the Spurs need for like a hair more shooting probably on the perimeter around Victor. It just shows you what happened to their offense in the finals and as the opponents got tougher and tougher was We don't have a ton of variety. It's all going to be built around Victor Rolling to the rim and it just got harder and harder and harder for them to get loobs and all the stuff that they were getting To your point about post touches. I I had not looked up to tracking data in quite a long time on Victor. His post numbers are like flat out not good. and I just Most big guys and athletic guys and he's both and Uber talented They kind of just, even if it doesn't look great, the numbers end up being great because they draw so much attention. and that wasn't the case for him. Regular season four point seven post touches for one hundred possession. That's like Oh no, that's in today's modern NBA, that's like top twenty probably, but it's not a huge number zero point nine three points per direct post up In the playoffs that drops to three point three post touches for one hundred possessions and zero point eight one four. Those are both like bottom twenty five percent numbers in terms of the efficiency It was actually and the points per possession numbers are not great either. If you like zoom out and include, you know, he passes and if some other stuff happens It actually surprised me how bad his post up numbers were and how small his number of post touches were. and that the number actually got smaller in the playoffs. I understand this is not nineteen ninety three. There's all sorts of sophisticated zone defenses and teams can overload the floor in front and do all these things to deny entry passes and shove them out on cross screens I just think that number's got to get up to like seven or eight And He's just got to have like a twelve foot jumper where he just turns up. it's like I keep saying the poor Zinga shot but even closer. U Does he know that? I mean you know him probably better than anyone working in media. Have you had these kinds of conversations with him or heard him talk about these things? Not directly with him, but you know talking to people around him. There's a pretty clear understanding H game. probablyrob scoring wise needs to look a little bit like Joell Mbide right now where Mbid has that fifteen he has that face up from fifteen feet that he can just do a one step trible pull up into very cleanly. And obviously like Mbid can own post position better than anybody out there and you're not expecting that out of Victor. but The big thing that a great post up center does is They catch and they're either feeling for position so they know how they want to leverage the defender. or they're just going straight into a move right off the catch. And Victor I think a thing he's struggled with in the post is that because defenses are very good and they know how they want to guard as post ups The passes into him require him to leave his feet a lot of the time And defenses, especially like Robinson They're really good at shoving him when he lands in a way that doesn't foul him, but makes him fall over and he has to regain his balance. This is just natural to victor. center of gravity is just so insanely high that While we spend so much time talking about how remarkable his balance is for someone who's seven, five and a half, seven six, It's still not great compared to like Carl Anutony Towns, who has incredible balance on the post up and it allows him to be so fluid out of the post. And so They're going to have to find some sort of thing technique wise for him And overall offense wise to get him the ball in ways that he can catch with more power in his base that allows him to get into the post up actions quicker and more efficiently. because right now a lot of the time when he catches the ball, most of the effort is about getting him reoriented and then he still finds his way. But then going to the different things like that Borzinga shot, you know, the MB shot getting to a hookshot he can just go straight to or for him, he likes to do things two handed mostly. So having just like a way to turn into a very high jump shot like a Bill Walton kind of thing. Th are all things that you just didn't see him comfortably going to those right away when he got the ball. And so they're just he's going to need to drill those out this summer. And so my understanding is they're going to try to work with some more NBA players, of course, like former players, but also just work with his own team about How can we drill in these mid post and these high post shots so that they're automatic for him It could good. He's a good passer before you before you like and I feel like we did not see a ton of his passing in the playoffs because it became an all role all the time offense for him and He's never going to be and and beed Yokich like I can just put you under the basket. against opposing centers anyway, against guards like he can seal them and he was actually pretty good at times in the finals of If the funky zone he's playing on defense where he's not guarding a person, He's just guarding a place leaves him with a smaller guy on him. He would take them under the rim. That's how Alvarado flagorantly f them or almost I guess it wasn't called Was it called F flagrant foul or not I can't remember He just kind of tried he tried to suplex him but whenB was too big, it just wasn't possible. So he was like pretty good about but like he's not going to be like MB in Yogks where you can just take people two feet from the basket, put them into the stanchion and lay the ball in, but he can Get the ball twelve, thirteen, fourteen feet from the rim, face up and look look at the defense as they're loading to him a little might not be a hard double, but they'll shade to him because he's so dangerous one dririble He's at the rim And that's where his passing. comes in. I just feel like we did not see him facilitating like at all in the playoffs and Again, he's only twenty two. This is part of the learning curve for both him and this verse pick and roll just going back to the pick and roll. them in the pick and roll and this was a playouts thing but particularly with New York It was two things. One Teams were able to chip him on his roles in the postseason, but especially in the finals where they could just punch him in the ribs as he's rolling And so you just can't get those free releases on rolls in the same way. But then really, the issue is that the Spurs didn't have the threat of a dangerous pull up shooter coming over the top around his screens that forced the coverage to stop ball first before stopping Victor. And so usually The Kicks were worried about Fox launching into a three or Castle launching into a three off the dribble. So they could be a little bit more conservative in their coverage and make it harder for Weby to roll. So a lot of it is on the guards at like Castle Harper and then obviously Fox just like, I don't know what to make of his bad shooting in the post season considering the high ankle sprain, but like, you know, the shooting was bad and it really hurt them But like they got to look to Harper and Castle to be like knocked down shooters on that first or second tribble coming over Victor screen because once that happens, then the defense is back into that impossible quandary. and they didn't the Nicks didn't really have to make that decision in the postseason Yeah Harper, Harper finishes the playoffs fourteen a game I thirty three percent shooting on threerees, fifty nine percent on twoos is like a holy shit number for Dylan Harper as a rookie in the playoffs Fox disaster, forty one percent overall, twenty nine percent on Threes Castle The mistakes are loud, but I think eighteen six and five on forty six percent shooting thirty five percent on threerees is like a home run playoff debut for Steph Castle. That's like That's exactly what you expect out of him and hope from him. That was that was pretty ideal. No notes All those guys are super young, including Wenby. they'll all improve. I don't know that there's a knockdown three point shooter in Castle or Harper, but they' I think they'll become serviceable and better and calmer playmakers on the pick and roll. Fox is a wild card. I'm going to park him over to the side in a second. I think the other thing got sort of pretty clear in the playoffs is that The sppurs are a guy away on the wing, whether it's a three or probably a four or a three and a half. Harrison Barnes got played out of the finals It could be Carter Bryant. I just don't know that you can count on Carter Bryant to be like when he mined to game finals ready next year. He's obviously going to get better but that's a big, big jump from like they put him in there And he'd make a three and then he'd make a mistake and that we wouldn't really see him again for the rest of the game Kldon Johnson He's an extension candidate. And before and he's like a beloved spur Six man of the year Before the playoff started when I was plotting out the Spurs finances, which get pretty hairy pretty fast here I had if if these if him and Champani both get extended. now I would be looking to extend Champanni for sure I had Keldin Johnson, who's making what did he make this year? Ls he's got one year eighteen million left I had him peg that like twenty five million a year, like let's say three for seventy five or four for one hundred or something like that Poffs seven point seven points per game, forty one percent shooting, thirty six percent on threes completely lost at times under the rim. like that positional grouping And Vell was good but not great And I think one of the reasons Visll mostly thrived this year was because they simplified his role and knocked him down like three pegs in the ball handling scoring option hierarchy. And that's like about what Devin Fisll is going to be on this team. I don't think there's like a twenty to a game score hiding mayaybe there is and I just don't see it. But on this team, I think this is about what he's going to be positional grouping isn't quite good enough and was exposed is not quite good enough. And so I'm wondering what you think about Keldvin Johnson's extxtension talks, who those are going to happen. I think at some point this summer. I don't think it's like like a July one kind of pri or like a now kind of priority U And just sort of, you know, the Spurs did nothing at the trade deadline. They have which fine. They made the finals like no harm, no foul Enormous amount of faith in their young players in their player development. I mentioned Carter Bryant and he's very raw. I don't know you again, twenty minutes aame in the finals, big jump. They have the Hawks first round pick next year. They have a top one protected swap with Boston in twenty twenty eight. They have a swap with Dallas in twenty thirty, a king's first round swap and boy is a king's first round swap. always a good thing to have in twenty thirty one and a bunch of extra seconds I just knowing the spurs My gut would be and God knows I have not talked to them since the end of the finals. I give them some morning time. Um, that they would just be like, we we made the finals. like're we're just going to take it slow. Is there a world where they tried to upgrade at that position some wayay somehow in the offseason Well what's good for them is they can kick the can down the road on major shakeups to the cap sheet and just use the bid level this summer And so they're in a good position there where they have they should have the full bid level available to them. And that's enough to get basically someone who can do what Carter Bryant does but is ready to do that right now and has like maybe a two year shelf life until Carter's really ready for that and I I zoomed ahead to their twenty seven, twenty eight finances in my brainnd. but you're right this coming summer, the mid level is in play for them in a way that it might not be as early as next summer. Yeah. And listen, we know Wendby iss getting the Super Max this summer Steph Castle is very clearly going to be a max player when he's up in a year And then is Harper already a max player today if he h had free agency? like maybe I think I think when you're planning this first future. You have to pencil in Castle twenty five percent of the cap max and like open the door to the fact that maybe he makes an all NBA team when when the timing is right, I mean Victor is going to get the supermax and Harper same thing and Fox is already making a max. So like we'll get We get to there. But this summer, you're right, that mid level slot I mean, that's where I would aim at that obviously is I just I haven't looked at the full list and like who's actually a realistic player for them. But they can do that instead of dipping into the asset pool. if they if that's the what they want to do And that's the caliber of player they need is just a player like that. L to to get over the hump in the finals, of finals in which they led for the significant significant majority of it, they need Wemby, Castle, Harper to get better. and then they just need somebody to fill that four, five slot Cornett couldn't hold down the back of five position most of the time. and then they just they didn't have another above the rim power guy that they could mostly play at the four and then move them to the five when Cornet's not working. Like that was the thing that they were missing. They didn't go to Carter for that. Kldon proved to be too small for that to work with him and just getting specifically to Kelldon, the issue with Kldon in these last couple series was just that he drove to score every time. He didn't pass out of it. And I think he would have been much better if on a lot of these drives once he hit traffic, he got out of it. And I didn't think that was that much of an issue in the regular season, but in the post season and maybe it's because in the regular season, he would just be able to always get to the rim and then he was always the first person in the air after he missed the shot and would put it back every time. And he just didn't get those rebounds against Hartenstein and Mitchell Robinson and those guys because you're growing up against elite you rebounding players there. So you know, Kelda needs to have this as a wake up call to be like I need to be able to get off the ball earlier and let the ball circle back to me eventually in the possession rather than just going, you know bullling a China shop every single time. And if they feel confident he can do that, then they will probably be okay. But I don't see him getting extended at this point because of at Champanny's age and his skill set He was the guy that they could go to for shots in lateent games except for some reason, not the end of the season when Everything was on the line. they didn't go to him there. But like Champanne proved to be the shooter that they really needed out there and I'm pretty confident that they're going to be able to make an arrangement for a deal where they can opt out of the team option and get them signed up for another three or four years. Yeah. given given his number, which is three million dollars team option next year and the limits on extensions and all that, there's an easy fair deal for both sides sitting there at whatever average salary, whatever you want to, you know, maybe a little less than that whatever it ends up being I'm with you like after this playoffs, I wouldn't extend Kalon Johnson right now. E even at the in that twenty five million dollars year, some people might think that's too high, too low. like I'm not thingsings get hairy enough soon enough that like I'm not I'm not putting that onto my cap sheet in the next three or four years right now coming off that playoffs apologies Keldin Johson, because by next a year by a year from now. twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight E like in like u Castle's deal hasn't come into play at that point, but Victor' at the thirty percent max evenven just like No castle new contract. It's the last year of his rookie contract. Sam Harper is a year even earlier in his career. U they could be if they extended Johnson and Champanne They could be right at the first apron already in twenty twenty seven twenty eight with Castle's deal not having kicked in and Harper's deal being a year away from even being a thing Um And that's with Cornet's full number, which maybe they could get off of that. But like my point is and you add a mid level guy ono that, they could be approaching the second apron in twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. And then in twenty eight twenty nine You have to pencil in the Castle Max, the Victor Max and Fox at fifty seven and five million. You have three guys making one hundred sixty seven million dollars already in twenty eight, twenty nine And then twenty nine thirty is the last year of Fox's deal and the first year of Harper's Max deal. That's the nightmare year where all four of them. are making whatever Max ballpark, Max I don't think obviously, I don't think the Aaron Fox is on the team by that point. Sos it's a little bit moot I have already said He was for the full playoffs, he was he was bad enough by his standards If a team called me with a deal where I didn't have to like attach an asset or two to get off of him this summer, I would just get out ahead of it and do it I don't see that happening. I think they're probably without a market and hoping that he has another all star season he plays better in the playoffs next year because he's capable of mean. this was just like a nightmarish combination of injuries one high profile, just complete brain fart and just a whole pile of misedjump shots. withithin an offense that became relatively simplistic and predictable, still effective because it's Victor We Medamar roll into the rim But rehab is trade value and just try again nextext summer. That's that would be my prediction is like, I wouldn't extend Kelvin Johnson. You're saying you don't think they will.'ll see And I don't think there's a fox trait to be had this summer that is going to be satisfactory to everyone involved And you just sort of run it back and maybe use the mid level and Keep your trade assets. That that's what you're saying, right? Keep these like extra picks and swaps that are coming in We'll see what they can do with the deadline, but you're right, there' There's no market for Fox just because of how few teams need specific type of player None of them have the financial flexibility to do it. So especially after what we just saw, they need him to go back out there And remind everyone, like he was so integral to their team this year his big function for the team was that He was the one guy that could really run that offense. Like Castle, like we saw what happened against was it Was it Minnesota or OKC when Castle had to be without Fox, he had twenty turnovers in those first two games. It was a record Pepper I mean, listen, he might win NVP in two years with the rate that's growing, who knows, but he I would be shocked if he was ready to organize and run that offense full time next year because that's just such a h huge shock year old shocked If he the level to which Fox was able to organize that offense throughout the season was just was so crucial for this team and that he just knew he was the one that knew how to organize themselves in the half court to get angles for Victor. He was the one that you could just see him pointing people out and being like, I know how we're going to create a wide open three for Champeny. I just I can't imagine Harper has that type of floor understanding that quickly. Harper is already an elite downhill score. Like he's already a top twenty downhill score in the NBA right now. when he's good. He's not consistently there yet, but he will be pretty soon. I think everyone's confident this guy's going to be a you know second all NBA, probably at least player in a few years It's just it's the degree between I can attack from the elbow when the the offens is or defense is in rotation and I can get through three guys a score versus I can walk the ball down the floor, put everybody in the right spots and know how to manipulate the defense and create an open shot. That's just a very that's a much higher level of skill in the NBA And I just don't think Castle and Harper are probably going to be there next year. twowo years from now. I actually probably expect that, But they probably still need Fox's view of the court next season P And they need and they needs if that's the case and I think it will be the case that the Fox thing gets kicked a year for all the reasons that you're saying and all the reasons that the market will be saying. They need Fox to have a really good year because the contract a year from now is still going to be fifty three point five, fifty seven point four, sixty one point four as of now anyway, estimates. I mean, it's just a huge amount of money and you're right You can go back and watch these five finals games that are that are the recency bias is just like Fox was a disaster. And There he's throwing bullet passes all over the floor hitting guys in the corners and they're just missing threes. and I think it just reflects The number one concern about the sppurs coming into the season was do they have enough outside shooting around And they kind of made it work with Champagne, replacing Harrison Barnes who was on fire for like the first thirty games of the season and then he got moved to the bench And it kind of showed itself to be an actual weakness in the finals. And by the way, Fox was part of that too because he missed a bunch of spot up threes from the corner and elsewhere whereere in the other guys. ' handling the ball, but he was a decent organizer for them who just had a total nightmare finals And Victor Let's end it on Victor It was a really it was a really fun couple of weeks as a neutral in Wembyand because Um The villainization of now, look, the throwing the eggs and all the shit that the New York fans, the very small tiny percentage of New York fans doing was silly U It was The flaggrantance were a real thing. He clearly has a temper when he feels like he's getting beat up Naz read exxhibit A The New York fans really hated him He stuck his foot in his mouth a couple of times. After the finals, during the finals with quotes that didn't ring all that true. And there's also just like, u There's what I talk to fans and even like people like when he was Walking to the podium after game four There was some snickering among the media that I was hanging around with. like as he was walking that everyone was checking to see if he was wearing shoes or not because of the story that had come out on ESPN on the day before about how he was walking in bare feet because he leaks likes to be in touch with the Eth And he's talked a lot about hows he's built for these moments. He's made for these moments and there's, I think there's like a little bit of backlash coming of of like, is there some too conscious myth making going on or like image making going on with all of these things. And so it's been an interesting sort of backlash not is too strong a word mayabbe, but and also just finals. like if you had to grade If I I had to grade his finals I'd say like B minus C plus offensive finals and a minus defense, probablyably a plus first half defense, B plus second half defense. And like they needed an A and and A and they didn't get an A and and A and they lost. And that's where I netted out of it. like none of this changes the fact that I think he's going to be the best player in the world for quite a bit We just submitted our Ringer one hundred And kind of out of deference to every to like the status quo and how the finals ended. I kept shay at number one. I had I would hear the argument for Victor and I think he'll be there for quite a long time, But that's where I kind of neted I would give him B minus C plus offense A minus defense. Is that too harsh I thought you were too nice. I would have I'd probably go B minus offense and B plus defense.. So we were closose I mean, before the before the series started, I said it's funny. a lot of a lot of people I talked to were like laughing at the idea that the Kicks could compete with this team and they were like all the path was way too easy and all this stuff. I was like, no, I'm watching what's happening. I know how much they're going to expose Victor. It's couldn I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe the Vegas Odds. I couldn't believe that a vast majority of people pick the spurs. I mean, I can get picking the spurs. I just thought the Nicks. I said it right away when Bill told me the ods and I picked the Nicks. I's like I just think the Kicks are being a little bit disrespected And anyway, that's just Yeah, I'll be saying one L their path was relatively easy. And I think in hindsight we can see that because of the Thunder injuries and obviously the wolves's injury is like maybe a little was the same for the spurs and At the end of the day, the team that usually wins the championship is just the really good team that's healthy. Like that tends to be how it goes. The thing though that we saw was that New York's ability to spread the floor and not just to spread the floor, but to move their spacing around made it so hard for Victor to have his spots on defense where he could catch his breath where he could know exactly what his angles are and how he's going to move And you could just see, he was a little late on rotations at times He was wearing down from all the different pick and roll coverages he had to do. He was always like especially the closeouts on OG relate a lot of the time. And so his defense. he just did not get to own the floor on defense the way that he usually did because of how smart the Nicks offense was So I can't even remember what the rest of the quest, But I will say I will say. so I did I did with Fantasy and and Fred yesterday sort of frozen moments that I always want to remember from these like sensational finals as great of a five game series as could exist And they were all Nix moments for the most part I do want to give one from Victor because this this possession, again, it'll be lost to history Um That was like astounding to me And with Victor defensively, everybody remembers the blocks in that first half of game that first quarter of game five It was like Godzilla playing for the spurs. likeike there was just nothing you could do And there's the famous play from what was it? I think it was was is it game three when she when the the Kicks do the Blender reducts and Victor erases shamot at the basket whereas it had been a basket to game before I just want to give them some love for game five and you're probably going to remember the sequence I talk about Three minutes and fifty five seconds left to go in the third quarter. He's on Josh Hart And it was always curious to me that he just wasn't on Josh Hartmore. and I get I get why, but that's an off season discussion for the Spurs coaching staff. But he's on Josh Hart and Josh Hart set's a high screen for Brunson and Victor comes, it's almost at half court to scream. Imook at it now Victor comes up to the level of the screen and heart rolls And the Kicks do what they always do in that scenario Brunson swings the ball to Bridgees on the left wing and Bridge's job is to then hit heart rolling to the rim. L Frunson can't make the pass directly to heart. you throw it out to the wing and Bridges does it. Wy And like Bridges throws a lead pass into the paint and Wendby retreats and gets a hand on the pass. And I was like, holy shit, that guy actually deflected this pass The Kicks recover the ball gives it to Clarkson Carkson's right in the middle of the pain.' about to k it to An and Oie in the wide open in the right corner. and Victor deflects that pass with his left hand. Two of the most insane deflections you will see in a five second span that leads to something. I can't remember what happens after that. But like I just like go that position canan you see that position in your head now that I bring it up because people think there there's this like well, he's not that mobile And you get him in space and he's vulnerable and Bruunson and burned him a couple of times in high profile situations and like is he is he like you get the insane Victor skeptics that are like, well, is he that much different than Gober Im like, Yeahah, he's that he's that much different. likeike go back and watch that play. Those are two Like one percent defeflections in five seconds by a seven five stunner running all over the court. G when Weemby can like know what tracks he's operating on where it's like, you know, the vertical dropping bag track on a pick and roll and then the shell around the paint. He's it's like insane what he does because he knows where the spacing is. he knows where to get his hands out. and that's when he's like perfect. It's really when he's stuck in like the weird no man's land when he's not quite the low man on the baseline. That's when things get a little tricky for him. But when he's able to have all the action in front of him will he will disrupt things in a way that nobody else can. And like that that still proved to be true during that series. It was just the way that that Ns could get him turned around in certain ways. That was just so effective. And by the way, I don't when I was kindind of like Benchioning the media snickerring about him, you know, wearing shoes or not wearing shoes and all of that Um I like Jacobbe had this epic rant about Weemby and how he hates It was hilarious. It was hilarious, but I also did think like It's like you I don't know how you win because He he is at the very least, he's honest and he's going to tell you how he's feeling and he's going to tell you about his off court, you know, whatever. and like he's going to let you in a little bit and he like he called him a try hard And that's the one that I really hate. and I wish I'd pushed back on Jacobia at least on that. We should want all these guys to be try hards. Josh Hart is a try hard. Jayalen Brunson's a tryh hard. It's not a bad thing that he tries really, really hard and wears his emotions on his sleeve. Like those are all goodood things There are variants of it that are can be a little much at times, but those are all like very good things and I also respect just I propose nothing I respect his stance on soda. Soda like I don't want my kid drinking a lot of soda. I respected that he's dumping the gator throwing it I'm losing sponsors here left and right, but I respect it. But there's there's like You know, it's just he's becoming a polarizing guy and he lost the finals. And I think all of this is just tremendous theater for the NBA Yeah, it's funny. I remember when when I wrote the story that had the sodas thing in it, the amount of glazing comments that I got from people, which I'm sure some are New Yorkers, but I think it's a widespread thing of that For those of us that have been covering Victor on the grounds And like particularly for me, I'm like a very poetic style writer. I like trying to dig into like the emotional nuance of what an action means and things like that. I understand how the way that I do it will probably annoy a lot of people that are already predispositioned to being annoyed by the overall worshiping that happens with Victor When it comes to stuff like the walking Barefoot thing The walking barefoot thing, I think is mostly just that he does a lot of work on trying to open and free up his feet because your feet get destroyed when you're an NBA player. like I guess our listeners can't do this, but walk into an MB lock room, look at LeBron's feet Look at most of these veterans' feet. Their feet are absolutely destroyed Victor does a lot of work, probably more work than anybody to take care of his feet because his entire career hinges on his feet staying healthy. and pretty much no seven six guy has ever been able to keep their feet healthy over a long career. So I think that's the main reason why he walks barefoot Counterpoint, you have to be out of your mind to walk through the back halls of MSG barefoot and hope that you don't step on a screw or glass or something like that. So I was mortified when I saw him doing that because I've tripped in that area back there. So thank God his feet were okay There's a lot of projection, I think that goes on with people watching the way Victor acts and the way that We cover him where we I think most of us that are covering him look at what he does as a breath of fresh air and it's fascinating and we like that he does put himself out there emotionally. and he is a curious and adventurous twenty two year old who is trying to like take in everything that the world has to offer to him. and a lot of people are just going to be annoyed with that because it doesn't fit the kind of modern status quo of athletes and athletes are kind of ght to suppress who they are so that they could be clean cut images that the public could consume them without dealing with the jagged edges of the personality. Now Victor, there's a line between confident and cocky that I think he stepped over too many times during the post season, but generally, he has been confident with self aware for most of this season And I think it's just that He faced the hardest test, right? He went all the way to the finals. He faced a great team, a team that we all love and are going to remember forever. likeike this is one of my favorite NBA teams that I've ever seen this N team. L they were just everything about them was fascinating and enjoyable. watching them celebrate now. It's like there's a reason why we love these guys. They're just they're hilarious. Yeah. Yeah I spent about thirty minutes today watching Mchale Bridges on Instagram live being like, all right, Mcael, like like live it up, man. Yeah I mean, OG high out of his mind on goodood morning America or maybe just asleep. I don't. These guys usually don't sleep for like three days after they win the championship. but I'm going to go for OG, I'm going to go with sleepy. Yeah, hopefully. But he you know, Victor I think To his credit at the end when he lost, he was like, this is the biggest learning moment of my life. And I think he was able to recognize that his bravado and confidence, it did backfire on him to a degree. And a lot of the things that he did this year from like calling out OKC for ethical basketball at the beginning of the season, even if everybody probably agreed with him He probably saw like There are things that he hasn't done yet that you just cannot learn until you experience them. And the finals is something, nothing will ever prepare you for it. No matter how no matter how many mountains you climb in China, no matter how much how many hyper baric chambers you lay in, no matter how many crazy drills you do in the offseason, inxperience is undefeated and it remains so after the series And I think he's probably going to have a little bit of a look in the mirror and he'll see like, all right Being confident is a huge part of who I am and it's what allows me to do what I do I have to have a little bit more self awareness to understand that the way that I project out is going to, for instance, motivate the next to want to kill me and that bit them in the ass in the end. And so you'll have to learn how to play the game publicly a little bit more But I think his heart has almost always been in the right place, more or at least as much as it is for any player that's under the spotlight that he's under And yet He ended that press conference or said something in his final press conference of the finals about how What's really the worst part for him is that he's got to wait a hundred more games to get back to the finals. And if I'm Oklahoma City. I'm like that gity right there. I'm like how many games you how many games you say? a hundred games are going to get back to finalot two hundred, one hundred games and you'll be back in the finals. All right bookmark in that one and if we'll see what, you know, who's still on the Thunder, who's not on the Thunder and all that Obviously that's setting up to be The rivalry of all rivalries and everyone else in the West is chasing them Jared Weiss, go read all his stuff in the athletic. No one has been covering the spurs better this season. Go enjoy a much much deserved little respite here before the draft and everything, Jared I'm head to the beach first thing tomorrow morning. can't wait for the one, two, three cantcoon There you go. I love it. Thanks J Thank you, man All right, that's it for today's edition of DZac Low Show. Rest of the week is TBD. We're kind of on newswatch, so to speak right now, but we might be back later in the week with another episode. Thank you, of course, to Jay Kyle Man and Jared Weiss. And as always, thank you to Jonathan, Mike, and Billy on production, and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching DZac Low Show. We'll be back soon twenty one over in P presresident select states for Kansas in affiation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen and over in Presidenton in DC, Kentucky, Wyoming gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eighty eight seven hundred eight nine, seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or isisit MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here