Milwaukee Bucks and Oklahoma City Draft

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Micolobe Ultra, from the pitch to the poor, superior is worth playing for Enter now at Mickeolob Ultra. com slash superior acccess slash FIFA World Cup twenty six Miclobe Ultra FF World Cup twenty six superior access, no purchase necessary open US residence twenty one plus begins on december first, twenty twenty five and ends on july thirty first, twenty twenty six Multiple entry periods visit wWW dot micloob ultra d. com slash superior acccess slash FIFA World Cup twenty six for free entry. Entry deadlines, prizes and details Coming up on the Zach Low show. It's been a whirlwind for me, but I'm back. My first pitch at Cinney field got rained out. We're rescheduling it. Th thenen I got to watch Catia in the World Cup a lot of stuff happened in the NBA. We're going to hit All of it, Janis the heap The bucks Who won the trade? who lost the trade? Boston, What is the fallout for them? Should they have gone all the way? Why didn't they go all the way? What happens now with Jail and Brown? Kurt Goldsbury is here to help me sort through all that plus. Trey young All the deals that have happened. Austin Reeves just happened today. We talk about that or was agreed to today. We talk about the sonss deals. CJ McCollum, Dusty May is a head coach. Mike Gori is a head coach in Portland Oh, just a whirlwind of stuff already happening in the NA and then Jonathan Gavvoni, the master of the draft We react to the first round. what did happen? what didn't happen Darren Peterson going to to Utah D Banta going one to Washington and on down from there some of the trade talks that didn't really lead to much, but what was going on a little bit behind the scenes He picked some winners and losers some interesting picks. How did Milwaukee do with their extra lottery pick We get into all of that as the NBA moves into to off season mode, free agency will be here before you know it. That's all coming up on the Zachlow show Welcome to the Zach Low Show where I am back from a triumphant Croatia win in the World Cup at a Nightmare traravel. day finally ready to talk about all the stuff that's happened in the NBA, Janis, the draft Austin Reeves to Celtics, tons of other stuff Goldsparus here. How you doing bud I'm great, Zach. It's great to be with you so much to talk about. not only an NBP caliber player traded, but obviously the NBA draft. It's great to be with you, buddy And Austin Reeves newews just broke that he is resigning on a four year max deal with the Lakers similar in scope and cost, although a little bit lower to the four year max deal that the wizards have signed with Trey Young. What We'll get to that later. We have to start with the honest Nento Gubpo who is finally traded to the Miami heat, not the Boston Celtics. Jalen Brown still on the Celtics all God U And not anybody else. It was really those two teams in the end as various playoff fates and team decisions. The sppurs never came in, The thunder never came in. The rockets soh much surprisingly never came in. The magic never seriously came in. And then Jianis and the Nicks obviously never came in. And then Yanis sort of indicated to anyone who might come in No, no, no, you might not want to trade your best assets because these are the places that I want to sign and he put his thumb on the scale at least a little bit And the bucks come away with, let me make sure I get all of it In exchange for Jianas and Bobby Portis pointedly, Tyler Hero Hello where Himi Hakas junior Casparus Yacachonis Three first round picks, including a number thirteen pick in yesterday's drap which they on Nate Aan one pick swap and one second round of the heat notably, Mr. Goldsberury. Get Y honest get Portis and and actually did not trade all the swaps that they could trade to Milwaukee and depending on how they write the language of a first round pick that they owe Charlotte nextext year actually could have another first round pick or like half of a first round pick to trade. And that's notable to me because Norm Powell is an unrestricted trade The heat are hard cappped at the first April and they're only like eighteen, nineteen million below it. That's not going to be enough for Norm Powell who has suooters around the league There may be a chance where the heat attach some of those draft assets to Yovich' contract, return a lesser salaried player in return and open up a little bit more space because Norm Powell suddenly loss as one of the key pieces of the offseason I want to start with the bucks because Although they did prettyretty well here given the circumstances and I think they did I think the phrase given the circumstances is indicative of Everyone involved in this just mismanagement, mismanaged it, including the bucks who mismanaged it right until the very end. I mean, there's a larger story burbling underneath the surface here of How unwieldy this Milwaukee Bucks ownership structure with the equal votes and the rotating governorships has been since Edens and Mark Lassy brought the team. I think I heard a lot about just Edens and Jimmy Haslum not seeing eye to eye on this and and that kind of paralyzing the trade talks in the end. likeike that's been a problem for a while Given the circumstances I just think one of the fundamental things is the bucks waited a year too long to do this. And I think that's really the only like wit too long period that you can ding them for. So I thought Kirkit was fitting. in a lot of ways almost poetic that this came down to the heat and the Celtics To teams that Janis and the bucks cross paths with at some of the more pivotal moments of his career. If you will go back to me with me to twenty twenty two, twenty twenty one, the bucks win the title. That's it. Yonest did everything you ever wanted. everything should have that should have been goodwill for life. This didn't have to get complicated. It didn't have to be messy. It didn't have to be any of these things. They got the title first one in fifty years Great playoff run, withstood injury, four straight wins over Phoenix, emphatic Alup from Drew Hollay that goes down as one of the most iconic plays in basketball history. done nextext year They take the Celtics to seven games in the second round withithout Chris Middleton And I came away And the Celtics came away, at least people I know with the Celtics from that series in twenty twenty two thinking Oh my Godd I don't want to see that dude again in a playoff series for a long time because without his wingman and his second best player. They took us to the hilt, and he punished us physically. And it looked very much like he was ready to stamp himself as like, I am the best player in the NBA And since that seconde round loss The bucks and the honest have won zero playoff series. And the next season was was the nightmare against the heat where Janis mis games always was out one hundred percent. Bud mismanaged the clock. Jimmy Butler destroyed Drew Holiday and the bucks in twenty twenty three lose in the first round That's Pivot the real first like oo. pivot point of Is Yanis going to be here long term And the bucks decided, yes, he's going to be here long term. He had two years left in theory You could have said that's when they could have traded him. I actually don't think that's fair. He did have two years left on his contract to free agency. So his trade value would have been high. But I think the bucks rightly believed this is still too early. Like we're still too good. We're coming off like a title and then a pretty inspiring playoff run against Boston Flush this trrade for Dame, which is in which then gets Yonest to Ink the next extension whichich is a trade that although it didn't work out, I will defend the process of it. likeike all day. I thought it was a good trade then. It didn't work. I still think it was the right idea And then that buys him another couple years. It was really last summer when Dame Tre his Achilles And the writing was on the wall That's when they should have moved in with another year left on his contract, more trade suitors, more value. So when I say did okay given the circumstances, I think it's obvious that they waited a year too long, don't you think I think they did okay given that it's june twenty twenty six, but I liked how he framed it up june twenty twenty one to june twenty twenty six. I think they fumbled the bag in this five year window, which included, as you referenced, an ownership shift that was awkward a coach transition or two that have not been great U you you always nitpick me because we've talked about this team so many times together The draft history in that five year window. was trash This team has fumbled the bag and by the bag, I mean Jan Santa toumpo one of the best players in the league. his prime is that five year window Kudos to him, Drew Holiday, Mike Budenholzer, all of Chris Middleton. they did bring that franchise their first title in fifty years or whatever it was. But the last five years have been a disaster in my opinion with one of the best assets the leeague has Okay, up to june twenty twenty six. I think this is as good as they could have done. And I actually like the deal from Milwaukee's perspective. It's going to suck to go through this rebuild. Don't get me wrong They get all those picks you referenced and then they get players like Tyler Harrow can turn into picks or a pick if they're already getting interest from other teams reportedly on Tyler Harrow. And I think This is is about as good as you can get. We've seen high caliber players get traded in recent years for less than this And I think that puts them in a good position to start a rebuild It's not going to be fun. It's not going to be great to watch on Lague passass. But I think it's better than doing the Jalen Brown thing with less draft capital, which was really the only other reported option for them So I think the Milwaukee Bucks find themselves in sort of a depressed state, but they can look at this transaction very narrowly, I think and be be satisfied. I think they can look at the last five years with a lot of regretts Z loow. That's how I'd frame it up Yeah, I mean, a couple of things happen for them they whiffted in the draft Um Middleton His body broke down And They traded him for Kuzma and that was a disaster. And just it was like drip, drip, drip. And then the dame Miles Turner thing was franchise suicide. I mean, that that was just like inexplicable the moment it happened And now they are where they are Um They don't control any of their own first round picks until twenty thirty one I do think they made the correct decision between these two offers given that Boston was not willing to load up their offer with all the picks and young players that Milwaukee asked for And we'll get to that. U The Miami picks, I think are more valuable than the Boston Picks. startarting with thirteen in this draft versus twenty seven in this draft. huge difference there. And I think just like Given Yanis' injury history and aging curve and the fact that he and Bam are going to have to kind of work out a little bit of their fit together, partarticularly on offense on defense fine on offense. it's going to be interesting I think those picks in twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three. Again, depending on who knows what the lottery rules are going to be then. Let's say they're similar to what this new system is going to be I think those picks probably have more upside Even though you can tell me well the heat never tanked, the heat never rebuild, whatever. Boston's in a pretty And I think a relatively stronger position than the HatR, but that's hard to project As for the players I like that they got Yakachonis in the end. I think he's interesting. He shot it well last year. He's very creative. You can spin him as like another first round. I mean, if you spin this the right way and you flip hero for like a pick in three seconds or something, be like we got like six first round picks out of this Haez is fine. He's a good player. I think that's basically what he is. He's a good fifth, sixth, seventh guy, you know, six man of the year, obviously runner up Wh is the swing piece to me I've always been higher on Caware than Eric Spolstra appears to be So I'm not in there seeing the work habits and the response to adversity. I do see the occasional missed box outs, the occasional oh, I shouldn't have chased that block shot and now my guy' going to get the rebound decision making all that maybe a few too many threes for everyone's liking now and then I'm tantalized by the skill set and I like the upside bet on him. Aen will see hero I just don't think is long for the bucks one way or another and I don't think he should be. This team's going to be awful next year. and interestingly There's this sort of bizarre reverse incentive that now the nets and the bucks have of you know, this relegation zone where if you're one of the three worst teams in the league, you can't pick your you get you get docked lottery ods and so teams are theoretically going to be competing not to be in the relegation zone The bucks don't care. likeike they they don't control their first round pick. So if they are in the relegation zone, well that's, you know, that's like Portland's problem or whoever controls their pick in the next couple years. So I don't really think they care They're going to be awful. Look the bottom line is they didn't get blue blue chip asset here, right? Like Amen is a nice moonshot at one. Where is a nice moonshot at one The most likely outcome is this turns into like a pretty good poo poo platter which is slightly disappointing considering you don't control your own draphickics and your ability to rebuild U But given the circumstances and the predicament that they put themselves in really by waiting this long and being so stubborn about it They did all right. and I agree with you. I think I'd rather have I don't think. I'd rather have this Th Jalen Brown earning sixty five million dollars a year at age twenty nine and the sort of allure of, well, hey, you know,, We could be mediocre in this new lottery world. we don't control our own picks, but still think they made the right choice here. Let's go to Miami Here's where Miami stands now. People are penciling in their starting five as Daveon Mitchell North Powell Andrew Wiggins Bamn andanis. Let's just Let's just be clear, like Nor Pell may very well not be on the team next year. He's going to have suoters. It's going to be hard around the league includcluding the Caps sppace teams like Detroit can open up Capspace. Chicago has Cabspace. I think a shooter in Chicago would be awesome for the Caleb Wilson Bzealous giddy thing that they've got going on now U I think even the Lakers could look at him as a shooter, although having resigned Reeves, I don't think that that is a great a great fit for them And then off the bench, they have Pllo Larson, Drew Smith, Bobby Portis Yovich, no real backup five to speak of unless you count port us. And I've seen this back and forth and like Oh, the heat have no depth. And then some people like I saw Sam Vasini, who's extremely smart say, I don't understand why people are saying the heat have no depth. Look at all these names. and you just name those guys and I'm like Okay, Drew Smith basically hasn't been able to play in a playoff series Yovich hasn't been able to play in the regular season sometimes, let alone a playoff series Fortis aging defensive liability Can he be on the floor with both Bam and Yanis? The bucks kind of went away from that triple big lineup, but their biggest big Brooke Lopez is like the walking dinosaur compared to the heat guys. so maybe that's workable, maybe not Larson's all right. likeike I like him. And then it's Kasha Johson and and the Gardener kid who I really like in Sot minutes, but I'm worried about the depth. I think Powell leaving is a massive significant roadblock to them being like a real contender And I'm also worried that like Bam and Janis are retty duplicative on offense. I know that Bam shoots threes now I don't think any team is like really upset when he shoots a lot of th threees. He's an okay three point shooter I think this is going to be a good team. They have a chance to be a hacious defensive team You know, maybe Wiggins opts out and takes a lesser number and that helps him with Powell too. I think if they keep Powell it's a pretty interesting team Um I just don't I don't know if I see contender contender here And given what they gave up Um I would like your your obvious goal here is to contend right away Jonis is a really great player. I think he's probably the fourth or fif fifth best player in the league now I think the duplicativeness with BAam worries me a little bit and the depth worries me a little bit and I don't know, man. I don't I don't see like title contender right off the bat here You didn't even bring up the thing I'm most worried about for Miami which is Janis' age and health in the last few years, left calf strain. rightight knee. tendonopathy, left cfrain again every every playoff let's every playing right calf strain. I did a huge piece for the ringer on calf strains and what the hell's going on. And one of the experts I talked to Zach Low said, you know what the biggest predictor of a calf strain is in NBA? It's a previous calf strain and unfortunately, he's on that sort of conveyor belt of soft tissue injuries, lower body injuries that we've seen plague the NBA, disproportionately plague older players. Another crazy stat I have for you ammong the twenty five most active postseason players This playoffs, guess how many were thirty two or over. Yonest turns thirty two this December. Um Zach low Only two of the twenty five leading Mutes players in the post season we just watched or thirty two or over. Can you name them? I don't want put you on the spot. We've all had our Canadian adventures Um Bias Harris, who's thirty three and James Harden The other guys in that twenty five most minutes played in these playoffs are younger dudes. Wow. When you expand that list to fifty's great There's only five guys This is a league that is conf for fifty minutes players in this postseason, total minutes played On five are thirty two and over Tobiaserris, James Harden Harrison Barnes is he that old? I don't think so. Harrison Barnes is that old Okay a few reasons for this that I think are relevant here. One is the way we're playing basketball, the frequency which we're playing basketball. is really hard on bodies. The way Janis plays basketball is very hard on his body U and I think it's disproportionately harder on older players. U The other thing that I think is very relevant for that stat is it's very hard to achieve depth in this CBA era When you are painting one player over that age that much money because this is a league that insists on reserving bigiggest paychecks for dudes who are on the wrong side of their prime. And then the second apron and now the aprons that Miami is dealing with. now you have this big Janis you know, big, big chunk on your cap sheet So finding depth, as you're alluding to is almost engineered to be very difficult if you have one of these players on your cap sheet. and and I couldn't agree more. They need Norman Powell, not just because he's a very good player. This is a roster now that is a Very, very obvious weakness from the three point line And if they lose Norman Powell, I don't know who on that team is going to make threes to keep up with any other good teams in this Lague. They're counting on Larson and I like Powell Larson a lot. It's just it's a lot to count on. just like I like Smith is a bench guy I think he's had snippets of good minutes in the NBA. He's recovered from serious injury and all of that I'd like to see him play in the playoffs, right? Like I like Yovich. I've always like Yovich again more than Spod does. Spoda doesn't trust him and it's obvious by his rotation patterns And so people are like, well, they still have Yovich. you mean theovich who just they didn't play in the playoffs at all or the play in or wherever the hell they finished their season? So you know, I think the depth is I fall on the side of the depth is a little worrisome and they're going to have to do some heat magic to magic up some depth They're going to be like if Yanis is healthy and Bam is healthy. they're going to be a good team I don't think they're as good as the Kicks and I don't think there're probably as good as Boston although TBD on Boston and the East is like, you know, Cleveland could go up or down. The Hawks could go up or down. The Sixers could go up or down. Orlando is probably going to be a little better. likeike the pistons are probably up up up Indiana's back, right? Yeah Janis is a force and he and Bam together are just going to put the kind of pressure on the rim that the heat have not and ironically, the Celtics have not put on the rim in a long long time. and defensively it's going to be a beast. but You know I saw I think Jared Dubin had something like, you know The baseline for contention is like top ten offense, top ten defense in the heat should be able to achieve that That's like true in a very basic way, but there's a difference between like number two on offense and number seven on defense and number ten on offense and number six on defense or number seven on defense. like the latter is closer tos like a good a good team I want to go the other way though. is like, okay So if the he don't do this and this is a team that's missed out on Durant and Lillard and even going back to Gordon Hayward, like star after star after star has they they've had this hero package turned down over and over again What are they like what is the other path? Because I think it's very clear that this present team out at like okay play in team mid fortyies team if things go better mid forties wins team So like, what are we doing here? At least this gives us a shot, a shot to be a contender, whereas the present state did not really give us a shot at being contentnder now the present state. They had most of their draft picks and they had all these young players And even if they didn't believe and I think they were correct to probably not believe that this collection of young players surrounded by Bam and hero was going to develop into like a fifty five win title contitter. I think that's correct on their part haaving them around gives them the flexibility to do another move That's like the next version of this Janest movevie to at least try it. And then you go through and like I made a list of Who are the nextore theoretical next stars that the heat could go chase, right? Because that's the opportunity cost is like We've lost the chance to build up this team and pivot somewhere else And it's like I don't I don't know who it is. You could be waiting forever. Is it Donoan Mitchell? He seems to be U always tied to Miami and also always staying in Cleveland Is it Devin Booker on a gigantic contract? It doesn't seem like it Is it whoever falls out of OKC? Is anyone of the stars going to fall out of OKC? I don't know. Is it Scotty Barnes?robably not? Is it Jayelen Johnson? Is it Luca? probablyrobably not, probably not You just come up with probably not The hot name would be Anthony Edwards And I saw, I think it was Tim McMahon said, you know, the vultures are circling around Anthony I didn't mention this at the time The single most talked about thing at the draft comombine in May this year was these rumblings that These rumblings that everyone in Minnesota was watching the purse strings under Mark Lorie and Arood and how they would cont and how they would spend around Anthony Edwards notot just capwise like this Julius Randall dump that they did this year But just in the like the way that they ran the team on a day to day basis And they were rumblings like, o Oh no an Aunt might be looking around. Aunt might be looking and I poop and I didn't mention it because I called Aunt's people and was told no don't ignore that. Everything's fine. Now the vultures or circling thing is out again and it's out publicly Um via Tim That would be the one and I just don't I feel like that's you could wait forever on these things and never get them. So I understand Wyami did it. They're just kind of between like a rock and a hard place, don't you think Yeah, I think they're in a rocking and a hard place. Joh Morance, the other name that had crossed my mind. I haven't done not done that year the math But what if we're just watching late stage Rileyism? What if we're just watching one of the great executives of this century No no notes. But a man who's built his teams with two of the three team buildilding tools trades and free agency When you look at Psty, and Brian Wright and San Antonio and these other sort of newer younger teams, they're clearly building through the draft first, although Save obviously was a trade piece. Um But what if there's just there's just this is just They're running out of ideas They're still trying to build a team like it's twenty ten and everybody's going to take their talents to South Beach and free agency. and those tools just aren't really happening nearly as much. And this is the best they can do Oh I think we both agree here and I would push back on Jerred Dubpens's point. I don't see a top ten offense with this group. I don't No way. notot with the way that teams are going to be able to pack the paint and defend it. That's disrespectful to the other ten offenses that I could rattle off right now that I think could be there in the current NBA I don't see a top ten offense there. I just don't, I mean, I'm the analyst gu. I don't see the three points shooting getting to the number where they need to be U That said, I think they're a guard away here and whether it's Norman Powell or, you know, John Morant they need something else. Um I heard somebody else say, I think this makes them a contender. to being a contender. I think that's the way I like to look at it that way. This is like they were two steps away from being a really good team. now To be fair, if Yanis is healthy, I still think they're one step away. Who is the third really good player on that team But I don't know given the team building constraints and realities of the CBA and the caps and the aprons that they have to navigate, that they can actually do what Pat Riley is great at doing is getting the third guy to sign up here There is an interesting thing of the extensions and the prevalence of extensions sort of taking the big market, clear all our capap space out and sign star free agents playbook kind of out of the league a little bit. And I think Miami's feeling that and the Lakers are going to feel that to some degree But my point is just like I get the desperation because this team had maxed out And this idea that we can And this is going to come up in the Boston section. we can kind of hold our cards and wait for a better We can hold our cards and try to do what the Ns did, which is make four different trades that build out the perfect team. That's really hard to do. And one of them was a five first round pick trade for Mcail Bridges, which was a huge risk or just wait for like the next star where you could always be out bid, where you don't know if that next star is going to be available or pushed to go to you. And that's why I brought up the Ath thing, which Yeah. competing intel on that, but I would assume You know, anything that happens there is years down the road too. Um Let's take a quick break and talk about the Boston side of this This episode is brought to you by Micolbe Ultra. How ready are you for the FIFA World Cup twenty six? Every decision matters here, even yours because Micolob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup twenty six is giving you a chance to win a million dollars worth of tickets and prizes. Micolobe Ultra from the pitch to the poor, suuperior is worth playing for Enter now at Micolob Ultra dot com d slash superior acccess slash FIFA World Cup twenty six. Nicola Ultra a F for World Cup twenty six suuperior access, no purchase necessary open to US residents twenty one plus begins on december first, twenty twenty five and ends on july thirtty firsth, twenty twenty six Multiple entry periods, visit wWW d. micloob ultra. com slash superior access slash VFel Cup twenty six for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details So we agree that Miami is a good team, but probably not as of now a contender. I liked that you set a contender to be a contender. becausecause I think the other narrative I've heard about Miami that is far too extreme is Oh Jianis went from the bucks to another version of the bucks. I'm like that no, this teams going to be better than like whatever the hell last season's bucks were trying to be Um And we agree on that. We agree that the bucks more or lessed, okay, what happens here is completely TBD based on who they draft and how they trade and all that. And it's a ground up rebuild that I'm sure the front office was rooting for in between these two different packages. like this gives them a runway and a timeline and sort of a long term. like, hey, let us work our magic for a few years Then there's the Celtics Who? basased on the public reporting based on what I've heard sniffing around appear to have been willing to do something like Jalen Brown Number twenty seven Another first round pick Maybe another like swap or something but we're not willing to do what it would have taken, which is probably Jayalen Brown the three first round picks And at least one, if not two of their young core players, including Hugo Gonzalees and maybe Baylor Sireman So There's this sort of notion that like If you want Yanis bad enough to offer Jayalen Brown and into first round picks You really draw the line at Hugo Gonzaalz, Hgo Gonzalees and Baylor Sireerman, like that's That's the line for you where it becomes too much So I want to before we get to the Jail and Brown fallout I want to ask you What do you think of Boston's decision to hold the line there of like, okay, we we think we might be able to we might we might need Yanis We might need is room pressure to diversify our offense. We never get to the room. we never get to the line. O formula appears to have worn thin in the playoffs Um We might need them. We need them this much, but u, this much is too much to pay. What do you think of that I think it's fine. I actually applaud them for it. I think If I'm rooting against the Celtics, I would want them to blow it up and try Yanis because I just don't I don't know watching the style of the Boston Celtics, how they play, how fast the ball moves and the shooting and all that. it just feels like Yanis would slow down a lot of that Missoula ball action. would You know, honest is a very unique offensive player, right to build an offense around him. I think Bud did a great job. six, seven years ago I think keeping the young Corps together is great. I mean, the best assets in today's NBA Zach low are the are the young cost controlled players, like the guys who can contribute above their number and the guys that Milwaukee W to Hugo and Sireman and those types of players. not willing to part with them because that's called depth. I'm fine with that. There's there's a walk awayay number there The real question I want to ask you and I think the league is asking is the relationship? does this mean the relationship with the Boston Celtics and Jayalen Brown is broken now? I think that's the real danger they just walked into and Brad Stehvens has a potential crisis on his hand with with is Jayalen Brown now done, you know, F you, you dangled me out here. I'm the only finals MVP this century, not named Paul Pierce. and now you're going to trade me for another guy Like And I'm not taking sides there. I'm just saying like this is an ego business. You've heard that a thousand times. Do you think Zach Low Boston, Celtics now have a Jaalen Brown problem on their hands. So it's interesting I mentioned the opportunity cost and the optionality that the heat sort of thw away Not in a bad way, but that the choices they face, the forks in the road, the different paths they could havevision by choosing Yanis The same thing kind of applies in Boston and it it's not just that like Hugo Gonzalez by himself is the deal brereaker and Bayor Shireermman plus Hugo like its it's objectively kind of silly that they would actually be the deal brereakers to aanest deal It's just the totality reaches a point where You are choosing between all of that stuff for Yanis plus Tatum plus whatever is Derek White, that core that's left over You're choosing between that world and the current world where we repair the relationship with Jail and Brown and we have all of this stuff still and this is a proven unlike the heat fifty five, fifty six fifty eight win team or see We still have the optionality to trade Jayen Brown or trade this all this other stuff another star somewhere down the line. And I think The fact I think those two roads like the status quo and the optionality of different kind of trade paths in Boston's stronger current position I think mitigated against the totality of all that stuff for Yianis. I will say, I've heard from a couple of Eastern conference executives who are like, The opposite of view on rival teams being like, Jonis and Tatum was pretty scary and we're glad Jonis didn't go there. I'm like, well, other if other teams are expressing el Did maybe Boston make a mistake, but I get it because their present is stronger than Miami's present and they keep that and they keep the future open and Yianis is thirty one and injury prone And he would have solved a lot of their problems offensively, but he would have costed them a lot of depth And and and been injury oris. G go ahead. So what you And one more thing. when I think of the two players at the center of the current discussion, Yonis and Jayen Brown, I think of potential extension issues, right? And the other thing with Yonis is he's eligible for a four year two hundred seventy five million dollars extension that would go into.in't just eligible. he's getting it He's getting it and do you want to pay him seventy million dollars for year thirty three, year thirty four, year thirty five, year thirty six. That's a real question. and I know it's nerdy and I know it's annoying. But with his injury history and the rules of the collective bargaining landscape, it's team building catastrophe if you get it wrong U And I think the same sort of challenge is facing the Celtics with Jayen Brown U and maybe the better move is a package with Jayen Brown that gets them younger, not older in this sense and gets them away from another looming extension, which is Jalen Browns By the way, you mentioned fininals MP. C there would have been two finals NVPs traded for each other. That has to be like a unicorn event in the NBA U So I mentioned Boston Part of sort of rejecting Yanis or rejecting going all in for Yanis is faith in its present Well, a lot of it's present Is Jayen Brown and Jason Tatum together And they've proven that they can win a championship. They did. They won a championship and they were a great team last year until they went off the rails a little bit in the playoffs and obviously Tatum didn't play Game seven Um I wonder in the aftermath of this if that present no longer exists because It feels like the toothpaste is too far out of the tube with Jalen Brown And if you told ask me right now on june twenty fourth at four ten PM Eastern time after it took me three hours to go home from the Gardia I don't think Jayalen Brown starts the season with the Celtics next year That could end up being wrong. I'm not saying it definitively. I'm saying if you made me bet, yes or no Jelen Brown is a Celtic next year I'm betting no. I think too much has happened There are too many hard feelings. The hard feelings already like the Twitch stuff already sort of rankled. just it didn't rankle anyone. It just sort of put out into the world this, you know, does he want his own team And if so, what team is that? And how does Jason Tatum and the Celtics feel about that? He makes a ton of money. Is it also given that he's twenty nine years old This is not four years ago when it was a young Jail in Brown for an old Kein Durant. This is now a twenty nine year old Jel Brown, not old, but approaching the sort of peak slash end of his prime Is it time to actually sell high on Jal and Brown one way or another? And if you don't think Janis is the vehicle to do that There are other ways to do it Here's the challenge The Celtics should be operating from a mode of we're trying to win the championship every year that Jason Tatum is here And every year that we have this corps that's done it before. Is there a Jail and Brown deal that's not this Jonest deal that yes resets us financially, which is important Yes gets us some picks and some young players or whatever but also doesn't make us materially worse in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven in twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight I don't know that there is. I'm happy to go through with you, but I think this is One of the big looming stories of the offseason is Have we reached the end of Jill and Brown on the Celtics There's a great old Tilight zone episode. I'll try to do this fast, but it's the nuclear era. And these two families are very close. They live next to each other, but only one of the families Zachlo has a fallout shelter. And sure enough, the air raid sirens start going off and one family goes into their fallout shelter and the other family is desperately knocking, trying to get in to the fallout shelter U and they the families that are very close, the first family won't let them in And I bring that up because the air raid siren stopped going off And everybody comes out of the fallout shelter at the end of the epode and the families are just looking at each other. Like u That feels like Jayen Brown and the Boston Celtics right now. and I heard Danny Green with Big Woes earlier being like This is just disrespectful. and you don't have to agree with this and I talk to some Celtics fans today that like this's not disrespectful. you're being traded for the one of the best players in the league. And it's fair for fans to say that. But from a player's perspective This is disrespectful to be dangled like that. And sometimes it's a matter of fact act that these relationships are damaged beyond repair because of the stuff And I'm not saying this is. I know for sure there's some fraying that's happened But it's why I asked Bill and I did it just tongue in cheek just to be the devil's advocate wo weeks ago in his pod I said posit that you are trading one of the Js for Yanis Why is it just assumed that it's Jayle and Brown and not Jason Tatum Why is Jason Tatum coming off an Achilles injury still? like we have to say still. he sat out game seven. We're not quite sure exactly what happened Like, why is he automatically better player than Jayalen Brown right now, even though I think Jason Tatum is a better player than Joel Brown. He clearly has been a better player than Jalen Brown, but I'm putting myself in the position of Jailen Brown and being like wait a second I'm the finals MVP. I'm the Eastern Conference Fals MB. I'm the guy who just carried this team to fifty six wins without Jason Tatum. He hasn't done that Yeah, he's made first team all NBAs. I haven't done that. He's been ahead of me in the pecking order rightfully. So he's a better shooter, probably a better playmaker Probably a better defender too, but like Is he still? Is he still? and I asked the question tongue in chee, but if I'm jailing Brown, I'm like At some point, Yeahah, sure it's Kev Duran. It's Anthony Davis maybe back in the day. It's a big it's who it's it's and now it's Yonest like it's great. It's an honor just to be nominated But like I thought I won the Oscar already. Like I thought I thought I had done enough to not be in these discussions. And so I don't know, man. I think it's a I think it's going to be interesting. You you want to hear some fake jel and brown trades? You have in brown trades? No, I'm not good at that like you and Bill All right I'll just go through some possibilities I don't know even know where to start I mean The cllippers, I don't let me let me like Bill had mentioned the clliippers as a third team and the number five pick. I said all along. I think I was in the lottery room when the cllippers got that pick I never thought for one second they were trading it. I thought from from the very beginning they understood What a gift from the basketball gods and the lottery gods For us who traded our way out of control of our own picks in perpetuity, who gave Sam Presty a freaking timeeshare in our franchise basically. What a gift for us to get a shot at a blue chip reset young guy. I just never thought they were trading it. So they're out U Bill has mentioned the Pelicans a lot with Trey Murphy, you know, and like you can build you can build a million different Pelicans combinations and just like, do they are they desperate to get a franchise player, et cetera I mean, sure, don't I don't necessarily see those timetables lining up. U Portland was mentioned a lot as a third team, including by me. I liked the idea of Jal and Brown to Portland, Janis to Boston assets, including Milwaukee's own picks back from Portland to Milwaukee Um I think Portland has a lot of flexibility and you could say, hey, look, Klingon Um Denny like these are like Denny particularly a win now kind of player. like like at some point we got to just give ourselves a shot. like just, hey, if we get lucky and we get some injuries to the other teams, maybe we're in a game six against San Antonio or Oklahoma City and not completely out cllassed Maybe u They control most of their picks I don't know if they love the Denny Jail and fit, I think that's interesting. Houston is just keeps surprising me that they don't come up in any of this talk. Oh, that's a good one I have I frankly have not heard that they're super into jail and Brown. That could change, but that's what I've heard for now. You could do it mobly for Jail and Brown swap with the cats. I feel like the cabves aren't gonna be ready for that Diddo for like the magic pick one of the stars in Orlando? I just so that's a little seismic I'll tell you one I really like. Michael Porter junior and some nets draft picks to Boston or some draft assets that the nets control rather, let's say to Boston for Jayen Brown and the nets get a dose of like relevance that they desperately need They have a nine thousand young guards and they're going to be bad again I don't know what their appetite for relevance immediately is. Again, relegation zone sort of plays into this and they don't control their pick so they're in that same bucks like, Hey, we're relegated, we're relegated. not our problem, Rocket's problem Um You know, people talked about the Kings for a long time. I just again You could you could do Keegan Murray and whatever. They were never going to trade the seventh pick for Jalen Brown. That's too crazy even for the Kings It's not It's not and Atlanta is the other one because Joen is from Atlanta and Making the money match is not that easy for the haawks. like Cominga twenty four three would have to be an I mean, do you do Caminga and Dyson Daniels in a million picks? Do you do Caminga and Ricochet and Kispert and a million picks is that even interesting for Boston? Like it's not as easy as you would think to build a Hawk stal So I'm interested like I know there's interest in Jail and Brown. I'm interested if they actually do it What's the trade That helps them reset the finances, restock for the future and doesn't harm them in the short term because I'm having trouble finding one, but those are my best shots. Any other any oers strike you're fancy No, I know that, you know, Dallas seems interesting to me because they have new leadership. They have front court players that could be interesting to a team I think lost largely because of a smaller front court against a bigger team and now you're looking at the sixers who just beat you and Carl Anthony Towns and the and the Nicks Um, Nothing jumps out. I've heard Portland, to your point. We've heard Portland. I've heard the clippers Um, I don't know. I don't know. I've actually heard Atlanta doesn't love Jaylen Brown in the past But Anything is possible. This is a guy who what? he finished fifth in the MPP voting, right? Fifth fifth or sixth this year? I don't know how the cllippers are doing it. honestly, they have all this like inspiring flatsome that's not going to be interesting to Boston Garland, who's not going to be interesting to Boston with Payt Richard and Derek White already there They have Kawuai, which is just a whole can of worms and you know, Wkel Lifton Rosen and Kats still ping up the billable hours. If they interviewed you yet, Kirk? I mean, they been waiting for them to call me. It's june twenty fourth, Wkel, What are we doing? man? Like how many more billable hours do you need D then we recorded that episode, I think the morning after the story first broke. and so maybe we'll get interviewed. How did you know that? But no, I am ready for that sag at end, by the way, NBA and Walktel U No, I don't know where Jalen goes, but you said and I think the most provocative thing you've said today is that you do not expect If you had to say that Jalen Brown will be on the team opening night, I think you left a lot of room for to be there. but if you had to say He's got to go. And one thing we know real trades, travel in silence. shout out J Donde. It could be anybody. It could be Indiana. who knows? It could be a number of teams, but You've laid I think Portland is the team I've heard the most in this sort of week or two beyond Milwaukee U, But it could be anybody. This is a great player They don't grow on trees, Finals MVPs don't grow on trees. He's just demonstrated he can carry a pretty P prettyty sort of ragtag group to success U, For the exact same reason, Miami just created everything to get Yonest. you could see a team, Hey, we could get we could get Jalen for less than that. Let's go. This is our chance I just don't I don't know. I'm trying to think like what is the asset that the Blazers have that really moves me if I'm the Celtics and I'm like, all right, I can get Drew Holiday back for two years at thirty four and half I don' Jeremy Grant like one of those guys has to be in the deal just finally Klingon. Yeah. like King they're not going to do Klingon. Scoot Henderson That's not interesting, but like I still need like forty million more dollars. Bill Simmons, I still think has his scoot stock. So that could that could be good for content. I just don't know sort of the mechanics Um of that one. I mentioned before, by the way, about Miami and optionality. it always it always must be repeated that Every time you say a team like, well, they they've sort of closed the door on some pathways by trading all this stuff For honest, there is always the world in which you flip it somewhere else down the line and get stuck back Uh, but that's that's u down the line. Yeah, I don't know man. Boston is going to be interesting. I mean, I expect them to completely, not completely, but re prettyty significant changes in their front court going forward into next season. I think that was one of the appeals of Yan. I would get slash educated guest that they had. if we do get Yonis, here are some stretch five type players that we could get. you know, Isaiah Stewarts, Jalen Smith from the Bulls, guys like that Um, But obviously they didn't get Yonis and now it's going to be sort of back to the drawing board And that in that sense and You know, it's it would be it would be interesting to see where he would end up. And I even picked like the roockets. I remember thinking like Could they would they do a durant? for Jail and Brown deal and how how much of a fun reversal it would be from four years ago and it was like Jail and Brown plus assets for Durant would now be Durant plus assets for Jail and Brown, given how the age and developmental curive have changed. But who the hell knows, man? don I don't know. wild, wild week in the NBA. You want to take a break and then talk about some of the other wild stuff that happened in the NBA ure Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? 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Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant plan to be or taking birth control pills Ticaking zepbound with a sulfinal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. to your doctor Call one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zeppbounds. liily. com Okay, other NBA business cur goolds very CJ McCollum, one year, twenty one million dollars. No notes Love the deal for the Hawks They became super hard to guard once they got another ball handler in the door because if you're going to hide your weak defenders on Dyson Daniels. You can't hide them anywhere else because now there's no other safe place with a ball handler like CJ Wouly so now with Kingston Flemingonor he's interesting. Phoenix, Colin Gillespie four years forty eight Jordan Goodwin, three for nineteen. no notes, good signings. Phoenix has some interesting starting lineup decisions to make and their long term future is a little murky with their lack of draft assets. But let's see more Fleming, more Malawatch and both those guys Gillespie and good winner, good players on good deals Pray young Four years. twowo hundred something million dollars The fourth year is a player option H I gott to say Kirk Didn't expect this as big of a number for Trey Young. Not really sure even what to make of it. They just drafted AJ D Bana, not a guard U they have a lot of wings and bigs on the team, many of whom are young Uh, and now they have Ti young is their is there their point guard. I have I have I got a lot of I don't even know. I'm like baffled. This is so much money and so many years for Trey Young And I would put it to you like this. this is the kind of deal. There's one of two things must have happened here Number one, number one This was all preordained upon the trade. This is what's going to happen. this is the deal Number two or some combination of these two. Number two, We actually feared that he had a max deal out there somewhere I have no earthly idea where it was. It doesn't from what I know, it was not Brooklyn. They have a lot of they have a lot of guards already Chicago has has point Giddy The Lakers have guards galore and we're The pistons havecade Cunningham, and we're now out of space teams already. I've heard rumblings that there was maybe a little truth to the Miami Can we put use Trey Young as like a desperation backup plan if all other plans for Yanis and Kawai and whatever fall through That would have had have been a sign and trade that you cooperate with. so I'm not sure about that I don't know what they were afraid of. I don't know who they were bidding against. They must have been bidding against either themselves or someone because This is the most money they could have given Trey Young other than the fifth year. It's as much money as any other team could have given Trey Young, which suggests that they feared that he had a max And let's just posit that they actually thought that, right? that they believe that there was a max out there for him Then You just face a very simple question, Kirk We either max them out to we either pay him this, the equivalent of another team's max. Or we don't have Trey Young on our team. Like it's a pretty it's a pretty black and white choice Like we can lowball him and try and get cute and he's walking. There's no magical in this scenario where they think that there's a max or they know there's a max out there for him. There's no magical. What if we can get him back for three years, one hundred twenty likeike he's just gone And so then I just ask you Baldly, would you rather not have Til young at all or have it on this deal I'd rather not have Trey Young on my basketball team. And I think a lot of people around the league. N your basketball team, not your basketball team. This specific Washington Wizards basketball team. I'd rather not have them. I'd rather take my chances with my young players and my guards. I can't believe the numbers they have to pay Trey Young going forward. given what we've seen from Trey Young over the last few years. I mean, the team that that had him and had his rights gave them away and now you're watching. and if you want to look at the data you look at on off numbers from the last few years. they're not exactly nuanced He hadn't made the Hawks a better basketball team when he was on the floor, partarticularly on one end of the floor that we call the defensive end of the court U and now that teams are smarter and smarter and smarter about exposing weak links onn that end of the court, guards like Trey Young have lower value around the league than they did previously U I am shocked by this contract. I know that Bill and Woes and House are going to be joking about it in March when they do their worst contontracts podcast I just can't believe it. And in a week where they also get the potentially franchise player, AJ dee Bana into their into their system, this is the story that you and I are talking about more That's just really, really weird and So your first point People around the league I talk to said it was preorddained. and I'm not reporting that. I don't know That's when you ask people around the leag, why this happened Who are they bidding against? Nobbody? This must have happened. I can't I can't find the team or. I can't find the team they were bidding against I like that framing of either this deal or no deal because that makes it that makes you think hard about it because If I were to defend this deal, here's how I would defend it Number one I've got to hit the salary floor in two years and I have like no veteran contracts at all on my books for twenty twenty eight, twenty twenty nine, E even Anthony Davis is gone. And by the way, this price point for Trey Young very much indicates to me just putting two and two together. that Anthony Davis is a short term rental for the wizards. Like I just don't see any world in which in three seasons they're paying those guys one hundred twenty nine million dollars combined. It just makes no sense at all Um, And so in twenty twenty eight twenty nine, I mean, SR's N new deal will kick in George's newew deal will kick in Carrington is's gonna be on the team. I don't know. Like that's and then they have the rookie deals. So they need money on their books, right? That's number one. Number two. You know The opportunity cost is I can have so much cap room to throw at every young free agent in the league too Jle and Duran, if I love him, Max offer sheet. Austin Reeves, hereere's a max. Now you just got max by the Lakers. We'll talk about that in a second Um, Payton Watson whatever what are your hopes and dreams? We'll fulfill them for you And if we don't get those guys At least we've inflicted pain on their teams who have to match those offer sheets or you know, match our offer And then we can take on dead money and get draft picks like we just saw the Nets do with Julice Randall Um That's the opportunity costs that you're missing. in their defense I saw someone so I like they could go get a young player like Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves is older than Trey Young. Trey Young is still only twenty seven years old I think he has become someone somewhat underrated as a legit offensive engine who's going to be motivated U and will make life easier for all of these wings and bigs who need someone to spoon feed them points and organize the offense Another defense would be The lottery rules and the relegation zone, bothoth the wizards avoiding the relegation zone And players like Trey Young who are floor razors, but perhaps not ceiling razors having value on the market to other teams for that reason so that we could flip him and all that. All of that said I would rather not have him I would rather not have him than have him on this deal. I'd rather do all those other things that I talked about with my cap flexibility. it's only for this reason. I just don't have a lot of faith based on what I've seen that he's going to be amenal amenable to playing any other style on offense. Forget the defense. defense is a sunk cost, right? We're all going to have to play hard and make up for his defense limitations. I have not seen any evidence that he's going to be amenable to playing any style other than Tayball Tons of picking rolls, stationary off the ball, occasionally flirting with the idea of setting some offftball screens and moving. Now he does run and push push the pace and throw hit headheads. He's gotten more committed to that, which I like. But I'm just like, I understand all these young guys like Trey Johnson needs some spoon feeding Sarr needs some spoon. I understand all that I just kind of want them to do more than what they're going to be able to do if Treyon plays like he's always played and I'd rather just explore all the opportunities. then than this. I couldn't believe the number I thought for sure if there were something preordained and I'm not saying there was. I have no proof that there was. I don't know that there was that it was not going to just be like oh, just the max. just the max another team could give me. That's what for like four years with a player option If that Like if I just don't see what the upside really of that is for Washington. And maybe they'll be friskier than we expect and all that, Just strrained all around They have so many decent players on cost control. I think the one case for Zach Low is we can overpay this guy. because all of our other guys are young and on cost control except for Anthony Davis, you talked about But you mentioned the word pain in there somewhere. And I think that's sort of a concept with some of these four year deals we're starting to see these massive numbers. And again, I've been harping on it, but like feeles like the fatal flaw in today's NBA is not the mid range jumper. It is overpaying an older player who is not a great player. It feels like if you have one of these giant numbers on your cap sheet pack it in. you're not going. you're not competing with a team like the Kicks or the Spurs or the Thunder that are just so deep and so wide. they can just honish you signigning up for Trey Young, it just it feels, honestly, it feels so wizards, dude I will again, like I think he's become underrated I think it'll Like Ill disagree with you, dude. I'll disagree with you on that. That's fine I would not have done this to be clear But I also don't think that doing it is some like fatally horrible mistake. I think there will be moments in next season, even months where it's like we're going to see the storyies like, oh, did the wizards actually hit the hit a home run here with Ton because he's helping in this way and that way. I still wouldn't have done it I don't think it's like a disaster, but I'm glad again, he's only twenty seven. But I'm glad you mentioned the tons of money to players who are somewhere between, say The twenty fifth and forty fifth best player in the NBA And that's relevant for a couple of reasons. Number one The Julius Randall salary dump should should alarm everybody who has one of those players Um, and he makes less than Treyung's going to make that They don't have value on the trade market. It's like I should have mentioned it for Jal and Brown Could the Rtors do something like Brandon Ingram Yeah for Jelen Brown. Well Brand in In room, you're going have to attach like a lot of stuff to get to Celtics to be enticed by that contract, even though it's not very long. Forget the quickly and pal disaster contracts. I do think that makes some sense for the raapptors to pursue, by the way. I would sniff around Jayen Brown if I were them. I'm not them Um U Jewish Randall to the nets U along with and the wolves then move five spots down in this draft. They tradeed numbers one eight and Julius Randall And they get number thirty three and the bulls get in there and get Claxon, which is fine I was even knowing that the wolves faced an apron crunch resigning IO, which they then did to five years one hundred and twelve million dollars, good deal. as a good player. That's fair money for a good starting guard. evenven like a starter six man kind of guard Um even knowing that I was stunned that they were just like, yeah, we can't pay. We can't pay. sorry, sorry, Aunt, sorry team that's made conference finals, conference finals, second round in the last three years. Sorry, Rudigo Bear I understand this is a huge vote of faith in Nas Reid stepping in as a starter. That's going to work fine. in Baringet playing more. their're super high on Baringet in Tern Shannon junior. playing more as a small ball for They had like I I think To me, the wolves are unquestionably like gonna be a little bit worse and certainly a little less diverse without Julius Randall I don't know if they're going to be like that much worse given all those backup plans But if I'm Andy Edwards Rudy G Bar and Chris Finch I'm Why do we have to be worse at all Why do why can't we just pay? All of these people to make a run at it And I'd be depressed by that trade, even though they get some flexibility and all those guys aready. I was shocked that they just completely dumped Julius Randall. and at how little value that they dumped him for Obviously, this speaks very highly of the Nix end of the cat trade And that is so over as to be over over and I cheake all over my face on that. That's fine Um I was just like, I was like, whoa. That's And if the vultures are circling on Anthy Edwards and they are. I don't think there's anything for them to peck at quite yet If I were at the Edwards, unless I just fucking hated playing with Julius Randall, I would be going to Mark Lurry and A Rod and being like, what did we just do? we can't pay. We can't pay any all these guys together? What are we trying to do Yeah, I was looking at his playoff game logs it's ugly. It's ugly. It's ugly U So maybe something there Does this relate back to your point about the purse strings and the new ownership? whereere you gonna to connect those dots with with connect the dot the A run Yeah one dot. there's just a line, man. like there's no there's a line Yeahes. so I think as somebody who who watched the NBA plass very closely, particularly that that spurs Timerwell series as a lot of those games Chu is Randall one of eight, six of seventeen, five of twelve, three of twelve, four of ten Six turnovers, one game, five another game The assists not there It was painful to watch in a series where Anthony Edwards was limited U J Randall was not the answer U, And I think They just had probably I don't know whose voices were in the room Clearly somebody's like, we can't have this guy on our team at these numbers U And then they did do the Dumo deal which I think is It's telling. I think they like playing with him. I thought that was a great deadline trade by the way, you know, I think a lot of People forgot about that. That was a great deal But yeah, now what? And so I think I heard Bill saying earlier this week Are we starting to see a new kind of trade or new kind of machination with You mentioned the relegation zone And I really think Julus Randall is the first mascot of some kind. You can help me frame this up but just like We're going to be bad next year, but we don't want to be that that bad. We don't want to be We don't want to be very bad. except the next don't control their own pick. The rockets have the right to swap picks with them next year. Maybe this is two years away. That's well. That's when you're the best. Yeah. But yeah, like are we starting to see sort of bad teams, like we want to not not be bad, but I don't know. what is the point of this from a nets's perspective? I think what did you just see it from Julius Randall that when you to get into the Julius Randall business? Now, I will say the second conference finals run, he was outstanding and played the best basketball of his career. and he should at least get credit for that. And when I say the buows will be less diverse and maybe a little bit worse without Juliis Randall. I think his regular season stuff matters. You have to play the eighty two games Yeah And if N Reed gets hurt if Baron doesn't develop as fast enough, if Tern Chanon Juni. is yanked and out of the rotation again, you're going to feel the lack of like, hey, at least we can throw this out there and it's like twenty one and five every night despite the ws and the playoffs the playoff works in particular. U Treay Young, I think is a relegation zone guy before likeike I said, although I forgot even like the wizards. The wizards can't pick number one next year. That's also at least they the best they can do is two because of this new this new system Um Austin reavs to me is a different But but maybe he's not. I mean, Austin Reeves just got signed according to Shan's four year max deal With the Lakers at what is it? like forty eight and a half a year or something like that Yeah And They still have cap space to work with as much as forty something million dollars assuming Ayen opts in. and if Aiten doesn't opt in Someone should be giving a better advice Obviously, LeBron, they'd have to renounce LeBron to get to that number and there are things they could do with that number that are interesting. But I think it's it's It's It's less than forty eight year. It's like forty sixty year if I'm looking at Spll Tack, right? But anyway If we're going to talk about these players who are somewhere between the twentieth and forteth best players in the NBA, making thirty percent of the cap or whatever it ends up being I think we have to talk about Austin Reeves too. I think Austin Reeves is really good Again, he's not as young and rising as people think he is. He's twenty eight years old. So this pays him through his prime. It pairs him with Luca, which I think offensively is a proven powerhouse pairing Um And it also is going to make it a high wire e for the Lakers to surround those two guys whether LeBron comes back or not with the kind of personnel that's going to be able to compete with San Antonio and Oklahoma City and on and on in the Western confference as Luca approaches his apex prime as well. I mean, like Austin Reeeves in a vacuum. This is what he's worth. This is what the marketplace was going to say he was worth He was going to get a match from someone He's a wildly productive offensive player. would have made the allsar team last year even healthy And Like Lua has already shown secondary ball handler next to him is a very powerful formula, particularly when they can run pick and roll with each other a little bit because of the size discrepancy. in the defenders It's like And again, if you're the Lakers, Their whole dilemma this off season was use it or lose it. Like if we don't bring back Austin Reeves, we have to replace Austin Reeves and I don't know how we do that and he's a really good player. So you're kind of just doing it because you have to and you like the player. but I don't, what do you think of this deal? It's's it's a's in a lot of ways, it's a no brainer you knew it was coming. I think the construction of the team around them is going to be quite interesting. It reminds me of the old Dame CJ Blazers now. I don't think I had a better idea. I think they like you said, it's a no brainer. They had to do this. What are they going to do? Let them go That's a terrible move You have to do it, you have the asset under control now. Maybe you do something different drastic in a year or two I think when people like you and me look at the Lakers of the next few years I'm not sold that a back court of Austin Rays and Lua Donich is getting you just like with that CJ Dame team. over the top in the Western confonference U So from a cap room perspective, I think is getting From the strategy perspective, getting the asset under control was the right move commit to the full four years or do they try to get creative and move him down the road? I think that's a possibility. But again, like what did we just see about He's a little bit more malleable than Julius Randall is because of his he's a playmaking guard who can shoot threes and like you can fit that anywhere But these deals are just like, once you get into this salary range, it's not like, oh yeah, I'm looking for like a player in three first. like it's not that easy I agree. I don't have any better ideas. I don't think they could have let them go because of the way the capit rules work. Now that you have the worst point of attack defense maybe in the Western conference with Luca and Austin Reeves in a world where there's a Dylan Harper, Stefaan Castle, Shay Gildsers, Alexander, Anthony Edwards, Jamal Murray, the list goes on. Darius Garland, St Stehan Curry, like You have to defend guards in the Western confference and this team is not equipped to do it They're not equipped to do it I think it's fair to question The long term architecture of the most proud franchise in the association Pting all of this money in a defensive back court that is clearly not up to the task of stopping their contemporaries around the league I applaud the transaction here in june twenty twenty six. I do. I don't think they had a choice I think the more interesting question, Zachlo is it the right thing for them in twenty seven and twenty eight? I I don't know. I don't know. I mean I mean, again, I think it's the right thing for them now I don't know sort of how they build a team to a point where they could compete with those two teams. I will say like I think the Dame CJ C is A little disrespectful to Luca. I just say Lua. Lua is a different guy, a an MVP level player, although he's never won it. A predatory genius offensive force was size that those guys even Damon gets rebounds. I'll c it on my own take a little bit. I do think the larger defensive concern is legit. That's what I just think Luca is a different sort of offensive wizard and an offensive machine. That's fair becausecause of his size and his physicality combined with his just insane passing ability from in the paint Uh And if he's healthy and again, his health is an endless sort of like it's kind of like Jonis. like it's just he's got to be healthy at the right time They're going to be able to score on anybody, pretty much It's just the other end of the floor that again and they're in the wrong conference, but I don't know what else they were supposed to do here other than maybe investigate sign and trade possibilities. like that was another one for Jill and Brown where I had thought, you know two weeks ago and I was mapping out fake Jill and Brown trades. I thought Aign and trade with Austin Reeves and some stuff for Jalen Brown just kind of like that's That makes a lot of sense as a Lua sidekick Th like better defefender can shoot, but That appears to be. Well here's here's the thing before we move off because I know you're ready to move off. You've talked enough Lakers. Let's give some love back to Jared Dubin. What did he say? the pathic attention top ten offense top ten Defense The Lakers were the number ten offense in the league last year The number twenty defense They need to get better on defense. And I guess the skeptical take on the Austin Reeves commitment here is like that's not helping them get better on defense anytime soon. I mean, there's another thing they need to address But if the Lakers are going to be a top ten defense, like the Dallas Mavericks achieved with Luca and a secondary ball handler to great effect they need to really get better on the defensive end of the court with with the front court players I really like Austin Roos as a player. I think he's worth this contract. It's just It'll be interesting to see where it goes from here. The last thing I want to say with you, I'd forgotten this The other other big news was Mikea Ni hired as the Portland head coach on a one year deal team options into two years after that I feel bad for my Ginori And I feel like everybody around him from his agents to the Blazers should be fucking embarrassed that they just signed a proven NBA assistant coach. She's been ready for this job for a long time to a one year prove it deal. I think all the coaches should be furious on his behalf I just find that whole that's like Rinky dink BS And I hope my my Gadora does really well and they tear up those team options and give a gigantic raise because that's who you would deserve. But I thought that was like He's ready He's paid his dues He's been in high leverage playoff games. He's been the acting head coach when Chris Finch was injured. likeike he's paid all the dues. He's been in all different kinds of situations I just I just I mean look it's easy for me to say, I can't believe that contract. I cannot even believe that the Blazers offered it with with like actual clear eyes and thinking. I have not heard much like that for like a new higher U But maybe I shouldn't have been surprised when they showed no interest in the guy who helped save their season last year in Tiago splitter or who's now the coach of the Blls Yeah, and Tiago won a playoff game. and you know I think we saw him leave. that was pretty stunning. And if you talk to people around Tiago, it's like they he wasn't going to take that kind of nonsense from from that Mike andori is ready to be a head coach in this league. Everybody loves Mike andori thought very highly of this is a good hire from a blazers's perspective Well you're right to zero in on that contract. That's bizarre, It's unprecedented. I'm not going to say it's disrespectful You know, you get paid millions of dollars to coach basketball, but it is it's unprecedented. wonder league the use the plural right there. I hope it's the plural for on behalf of Mike Nori, but o my gosh. but let's hope let's hope he thrives and this is this is all. because ye, people love him. and he's a huge part of that that Ascendant Wolf team over the last few years. You mentioned conference finals, conference finals second round ran into the to the sppurs this year with a banged up ant man Um, you know, I think he's a good assistant coach. But I hope that's not the last thing you wanted to talk to me about. What's that shirt you're wearing? and what were you doing? M back to Lag Gordia. U Yeah, before we bring on Gavondi to talk draft, I I just I was so appreciative that when u The NBA moved the draft up by a couple of days. so that it fell on the day of the Croatia game that we bought tickets to Bill was like, just go. we'll figure it out. Just do a podcast two days later or day later, it's going to be fine U It was So even beyond my expectations in terms of the intensity and the excitement, it was absolutely amazing Croatial one one zero I don't want to get in put my soccer inal'at on because it's I'm unqualified I think my wife was a little upset at the Croatia fans. So we sat my wife and my daughter and I sat together. herer sister and her daughter sat elsewhere So there are five of us at the game U My I would say Croatia fans outnumbered Panama fans like ten to one probably There's a huge Croatian diaspora in Toronto and it was super fun in that regard U But she was like, the Panama fans are louder than us. That's not okay. And she was motion like I've never seen her like this. She was like, come on. like we can't just cheer when the team's playing well. like they were really struggling in the first half. It was not a great first half for Croatia And she was like, come on, we got to lift them up I was like, oh my God, this is an intense side of you that I've not I've not seen Croatia came second in twenty eighteen. And third in twenty twenty two. this is a country of three point eight million people or three point nine million people.'s like, it's crazy This team doesn't have it. I love there I love it. They just like the old guys are too old And we did we didn't really realize it but we saw Lu Luca Mojrich his two hundredth interance. Yeah. O for three other players have done that and they tossed him up in the air afterwards. And one of the coolest things was when they took him out of the game and like the eightih minute and this is something they do know is they take Lua Mojrich out of games because he's forty. The whole crowd, including the Panamanian guys next to me who were delightful. I made friends with all of them We're chanting Luca, Mldrich Oh, that's cool. Even they joined in U, So we saw that And then look, the old guys are old. the young guys are unproven and our best player Gardial defensive player broke his leg like six months ago and is just Rurning to fitness and was actually they benched him in the second half. his defense was bad But we found and I was thinking just at halftime S sound like we traveled far It's a privilege to be to go to any of these games. I get it I was like, I've just really I mean, my wife is Croatian through and through. They moved because of the war. they relocated because of the war. She still considers it her home She's happiest when she's around her people Our trips there every summer are not like optional vacations. their returns to her homeland. It's extremely important for her that our daughter Croatian stuff in her blood and her roots And I was like, I just I just want her to see them win so badly And then they go up they go up one zero. And they end up winning the game unbeknownst to me, The entire area around the BMo stadium then becomes a Croatian party where all the fans stay. There's like a DJ playing Croatian music Everyone is singing and dancing. I went to order drinks for my wife and her sister. I was trying to stay sober because the NBA draft was going on. I was following it and sending texts at the same time. And sure enough, the guy gets out the one of the bartenders gets out of the line comes to us and's like, Hey, I just want you to know like This hasn't happened yet, but we're running out of All alcohol And I was like, ye, man, the Croatians are here. It's like, that's what's gonna happen. Like I know the Scottish people got a lot of press for that in Boston U And he was like,h, the Croatians, the Croatians go at like that. and the guy behind me was Croatans was like, Oh, yeah, you're not going gonna have any alcohol by the end of the night. And just my wife has tons of videos on Instagram of her singing and dancing. It's like one of the happiest moments I've ever seen her. And like my daughter was there singing and dancing. I'm just so glad that they won. was not a convincing win. It was one zero they have a game left against Ghana that might be like tire win win but The atmosphere was super intenseive. I got toa tell you, Kirk I'm a big soccer guy until World Cup comes around And maybe it would be different if I followed like a like a reg like a like a club team where you have a regular season with lots of games and like there's chances to make up for bad losses or whatever These games are fucking agony. It's just agony. likeike it's not even fun every every time Panama gets the ball I'm just like, I can't even watch. I can't watch. It's just agony, but it was super fun and I was glad to be able to go. Yeah It sounds magical, dude. I love the World Cup. I'm glad you got. not trying to go. If anybody has tickets, just let me know. But no, I think you didnt see Croatia with your wife and your kid. That's a real special moment. Proud of you as your friend for doing it. I'm also jealous. I want to go. I want to see it U Team USA looks great Um, Croatia, I mean, one no that's that's a tough group, you guys. They have. w's a win up group. Oh wins a win and I was sitting there at halfime. I was like, they're not playings. They cleaned up, they cleaned up a lot of their mistake. They played well in the second half, but I was half time. I was like, just just give me one bit of magic. just like There's basketball equivalent to that though, dude. J just one moment of magic could swing the whole game and we got it. And it was awesome and u Yeah it was a it was a It was a lot of fun What can tell? I feel there's no there's no basketball equivalent to holding on to a one goal lead for like the last twenty minutes when the tactics change and it feels like the team behind just has ball threatening over and it feels like time stands still, man. So but congrats to you and your family and all the Croatian fans. It sounds like an awesome time up in Toronto. Yeah It was a lot of fun. All right, Kurt Goldsbery. Thanks for your time, bud. Thanks for going over all the stuff with me and now it's time to bring in Jonathan Gevoni because the draft was last night. It was all chalk, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to talk about. Givvoni's here That's coming up. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zbounds terzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a two point five, five, seven point five, ten, twelve point five, or fifteen milligram injection Zepound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepotide containing products or any GLP one receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if zeepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take up allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medularary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zipbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if your' nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills Taking zZepbound with a sulfonyl urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems T to your doctor. callall one eight hundred five four five five nine seven nine or visit zeppbounds. liily. com Jonathan Givonei is here. the NBA draft The first round at least was last night, The second round is today was a lot of chalk. But still lots of interesting things starting at the top. The wizards take AJ Dana And Utah, despite, you know, some people thinking that they might take Cambooz or that maybe they secretly wanted to trade up to take the bances. I was saying allong. I don't think they're trading up And I and I my gut was they're going to take Peterson if he's there I never really got the concerns to the degree there were any. that Darren Peterson and Chuante George is an awkward fit on offense. deffensively there might be some growing pains, but they're going to be surrounded by size I love that Utah was just like, yeah, cool. like we could get Cambooer. he might end up being the most productive player from this draft, certainly had a case for the number one pick We're going to take an upside shot on a guy who fits exactly what we need positionally. And I think this team's going to be super exciting next year U What have you heard from the fallout of that pick is Peterson and his camp? Are they are they have they come to grips with this? Are they worried about the ate George Is this going to be a home run? Let's start there I think Peterson, you know, he always wanted to go one and so once it became obvious that he wasn't going to be the number one pick. the wizards actually told him this several days ago that he is not going to be the number one pick. That is, you know, what started this whole chain of events with The Utah jazz frront office traveling to Canton, Ohio to meet with Darren Peterson to watch him work out to really start this process of making I' comfortable with the idea of playing for the Utah jazz and he's saying all the right things. He looks genuinely happy to be with the jazz. I mean, it's great spot for him. They have a wide open spot there at that two guard spot with Kante George who can also play off the ball. And so you know, there's a lot of room there to grow for Darren Peterson. They have a pretty interesting roster here now with with Larry Markin in with Jaron Jackson Jr. Um, you know, and so I think it's there's there's a lot of interesting pieces here and so U I mean, I can't I mean, Darren Peterson looks happy and there's no reason for him to be happy. I mean he he's a great spot with a great coaching staff in a wonderful city. And so I think it's it's really a home run for him. and this is going to be a great opportunity for him to show that he should have been the number one pick. You know, this is going to be a debate that, you know, we're going to it's going to be going on for for years and years. And so it's going to be really interesting to see how does it pan out you know, also with with Cambooer as well, you know, like these are three guys who all had a really legitimate claim to be number one picks And it's a, you know, it's an awesome draft crop at the at the top and so I can't wait to see how it plays out, especially in Washington, you know, with with Asa de Banza and Trey Young, you know, like we haven't has Ty Young ever really had like a mid post ISO guy like Aa de Banza who's at the best with the ball in his hands, you know, playing in the mid range, playing out of the post out of the mid post, creating his own shot in Washington he just handed Trey Young an incredible contract, essentially a max deal you know, which, you know, I'm really surprised a lot of people around the NBA. I mean, there was some thought that ye, you know, the wizards, you know, they they traded for Trey Young when his value was at the absolute lowest. basasically at the Hawks essentially gave Trey Young away, which, you know, really kind of we thought opened the pathway for the wizards to to go and get him on a value contract That's not what happened here. And so, you know, if you're the wizards now, you really need to make progress now. I mean, now is the time to take all these pieces that you have, all these young guys with Trey Young, you know as your veteran guy, the leader of your team. And we want to see Trey Young now, you know, like can you be a guy that can drive winning? This has been the question about Trey Young Since he was in high school, Is he a guy that you can win with? Is he someone that teammates enjoy playing with? Is he a guy that, you know that that can be the face of your franchise and and win at the highest level? There were glim of glimpses of that in Atlanta. There were, you know, fleeting moments. ultimately, you know, things went south there and they and they basically they gave them away to the wizard. Great opportunity now for Ty Young to take Aj of de Banza under his wing We've heard that Trey Young and Anthony Davis haven't been around Washington a whole lot yet You know, the young players that are kind of looking around saying, Hey, are these guys going to make an appearance at some point? you know? likeike are they going to show up and you know show some leadership skills and guide these guys? Now is the moment for, you know, for Anthony Davis and Trey Young to come in and take these guys and and lead them to the playoffs and maybe, you know, try and make some noise in the playoffs because the East there is an opportunity here, Zach for a team like Washington to do something in the East I wonder How many times a day Anthony Davis has the realization that he's on the Washington Wizards? If he's just like going about his day ordering Chipole or something and he looks Ohh, I'm wearing a wizards. That's right I'm the wizards. Oh my God. when did that happen? Okay, Camboozer, no notes. Caleb Wilson, no notes. bothoth those teams are thrilled. They should be thrilled. Home run picks for both The next I'm going to say like Ps Nine picks, ten picks are super interesting Um, Waggler to the cllippers or waggler. I always forget, which is it again Woggler Woggler That's I thought. Um I said at the draft combine that all the buzz was that the clippers were going to take Waggler and they did. And I think that's a good a good pick on them The next pick You're going to have to sell me on M Kill Brown a little bit. I watch two games. That's all I watched. I'm not a draft guy. I was not terribly impressed The nets take him over A cff, Flemings Bures who I really like and I like the bucks. I like the bucks Bures amment combo ammments, polarizing. we can talk about him later. Um Kingston Flemings is is clever and I like him too What are the nets see in terms of how Mihael Brown Jior fits within You know, Jagor and Joman and Tilory and Sarf and all the point guards they have and maybe that they've already sort of decided we can't make decisions based on who we have, But seell me on that fit I mean, it was really a question of Michuel Brown versus Darus A cuffs there it comes down to. and there's some, you know, it's a very interesting comparison. there You know, they're the same position essentially. And I mean, Dus Aoff had a much better season than Miel Brown. Mielbrown you know till let's say January of of twenty twenty six He was widely considered the better prospect of the two. We saw what he did at the under nineteen W. He was like he was the number one high school guy, right? Among these guys wasnt the highest rated high school He was. he was. I mean, I mean, it depends who you asked they were. I mean, Dere Sac was very highly regarded too, but You know, you saw what what Miuel Brown did in in the month of November, for example, that game against Kentucky, you know, bigiggest rivalry on Louvo schedule, twenty nine points, five assists. you know, it was an incredible performance, you know, for the first part of the under nineteen World Cup, He was the best guy on that USA team, which also featured Aid de Bonza. It featured Coa Pete, you know, Tyron Stokes Murez Johnson, Jordan Smith. This was a loaded group of players that the US brought And you know, at six foot five in shoes, six, seven and a half wingspan, you know, the ability to get anywhere he wants on the floor, changing speeds, playing off crossovers hesitation moves getting into his spots, you know, the ability to pass at a very high level with with both hands finishing the lane, make shots off the bounce. Um, you know, veryer, very high level the talent is is off the charts You know, if I'm the Brooklyn Nets, I see, you know, like thirty seconds after the pick, this guy, you know, sits down and and you know, they're asking him, Hey, you know, two months ago, you could barely get out of bed. your your back was so messed up. It's not that the introduction that I want, you know as a Brooklyn Nets fan. And that was one of the questions about Mcel Brown, you know, like he had this injury riddled season He, you know, there, you know, could he play? couldould he not? was he didid he shut it down too early? He came back he You know, he had a you know, dropped like forty nine in the game and then shot it down after that. So he was legitimately hurt That's going to be something but the physical it checked out. So it's going to be an interesting comparison to see how how this plays out, you know for Brooklyn after drafting all those point guards last year. you know, I think him and Yegor Demon is is a is a good fit. I don't think that Yeaggor Demon is six nine. He's a, you know, big time shoot. He canot shot it very well Yeah. So I mean, really who just hurts is no oneor and Ben her off and you're not making, you know, decisions based off that. So Um, you know I think, you know if youre the Brooklynets, they always talk about character and intel and background and how heavy they dig into that. And clearly they lik something more about Miuel Brown's profile than about Darry' ACouff, you know, I mean, Dar' Auff I mean, there are a lot of questions you know, about, you know, how much of a winning player is he, the defensive intensity, the body language, the leadership. He's a very quiet guy on the court. You know,'s not a whole lot of leadership there. You know, not that Miuel Brown is renown for that, but That was probably a big factor in why why Brown ended up being the pick there over ACuff Yeah, and look, the kings end up getting a cuff at seven I had said last week when I think we were on that I didn't get the sense that the kings were desperate to trade up to get A cuff that they were going to sit at seven and take who they take I checked with the teams above them in the draft and they're like, Yeahah, we didn't hear from them. And so I think they sat there and yeah, a c A cup fell to them. I think that's super exciting for Kings' fans. I don't know how he's going to be in the end it's clearly electric and super smooth and super skilled and at play sc a lot of points. I mean, he's going to make a really strong push for Rokie of the year plays a position that they have a massive need for. I think it's a really fun outcome for them and then So I mean, again, and Kingston Kingston Flemings to the Hawks. People thought that number eight pick might be in play I mentioned that it could be an interesting starting point to a Treay Murphy the third offer I think a lot of teams hit the Pelicans yesterday about Treay Murphy the third and could they make swings for him and they were, I think, a little surprised that the Pelicans didn't from what I heard didn't really engage too much on Treay Murphy I third talks. And so the Hawks end up taking Kingston Flemings I like getting another ball handler in the door. For themviously what does he has like a sixree wingspan. so I don't know how that's going to translate. to the NBA, but this, you know I do wonder if Brunson doing what he just did sort of made all these teams a little bit more emboldened about small guards, but you got to surround those small you got a the thing that Brunson did really well other than the offensive brilliance, right? you have to be an a plus offensive player Number two You have to learn to hedge and recover and not get in bad switches and the Nicks were super good about that And number three, you've got to surround that guy with size and defensive versatility all over the floor and the Nick hit that out of the park. And I think the Hawks have the kind of team that They might be able to do that too. I don't I don't know how ready he's going to be to step in and like You know, I don't see him starting next year or whatever, but who knows, but What how does he how does his game do you think translate to to the league into this roster specifically I'm a fan of Kingston Flemings. I like what the Hawks did in general, both with him at eight and then drafting Zubie Edge of four at twenty three. These are two guys that fit the way that they want to play and they fit their you know, the DNA of their team And you know, they both bring big time toughness, big time intangibles Re unselfish. U And you know, if you're not going to find a star at eight, you know, which in this draft was always going to be unlikely, then you, you know, you you go for the double And and I think that Kingston Flemings is a solid double. He's he he's got great speed, you know, he can really handle the ball. He's very good in the transition. he can get to his spots on the court. he can, you know Midrange Jump Burzy shot thirty nine percent for three on pretty low volume, but eighty five percent from the free throw line. He's a tough minded guy and so I think he's I think he's going to really fit with the Atanta Hawks. So I like what they did here three and again, I watch like two Kingst and Lleming games. So I'm just knowledgeable enough to be dangerous and we should not be allowed in any front office to make any drafting decisions. I do think, by the way, I had this idea. this would it would be fun I got so into watching the college stuff and thinking more about it by my standards anyway that I thought, it would be fun to take like a year of my career and just become a college basketball NBA scout podcast and just sort of experiment with that. Just watch like twenty college games of like a day and go all in. But anyway Um I liked his toughness and swagger. And he's such a clever player. I was very seduced by how clever and wiry he is as a ball handler and just the change of pace and all that stuff How big a surprise For you was Marez Johnson junr. all the way up at nine even was was it surprising even with the Mavs having shocked everybody by getting Dustye as their head coach It wasn't it wasn't that big a surprise. I mean, we, you know, you I came on the podcast a couple of days ago, we talked about Risers, you know, and he was really the first name that that I brought up because you know, the NBA playoffs, I mean really help guys like Morez Johnson. I mean, if you want to win at the highest level, you need size and length and physicality and toughness. And that's obviously what they want to do in Dallas now. It's what they want to surround Cooper flag with. And if you look at the way that Dusty May played And Michigan, he went with a really tall small forward. That's Cooper fllag. He had Morz Johnson at the four and then had a rip protector at the five and a Dimar and that could be your Derek liively right there. And so they are already kind of putting together the outline of how Dusty May wants to play. Now obviously they theyith Kye, I mean, that's, you know, Elliot Kadu they've got more there's a lot more work there to go I'm sure that they spend a lot of time talking to Dusty May about notot just Morz Johnston, but every player that he played against, prepared for. you know, usually you don't want to involve an NBA head coach too much in your scouting decisions because These guys they just don't have time to watch college basketball. They don't know anything about the college game. Dusty May just spent the entire season watching this entire crop. He recruited a lot of them. He knows him pretty well. If you ask anybody that knows Dusty May, one of the things that they say about him is his best trait is that he's an elite town evaluator, going back to his time at Louisiana Tech as an assistant at the University of Florida Anytime that Dusty May would offer somebody on the recruiting trail, any high school kid, that kid would automatically the next day get ten offers because everybody around the industry knows that Dusty May is one of the best that there is at evaluated talent. So when you are Masayu Jiri and Mayike Schmidz and you hire Dusty May, obviously you're getting an incredible exes and ns guy. You're getting an incredible human being. Everybody loves him as a person, but you're also getting phenomenal town evaluator. And if he believes in Marez Johnson, I'm going to buy that, you know? And I mean talking to Mike and Masami, they liked Mz already before. So it was it was a good fit You know, there was a lot of talk that, you know, this draft. I mean, we really kind of knew what the top eight was going to look like. And so And once those eight guys went off the board, there's a kind of a wide range of players that you're choosing from and to take Morez, you know at the top of his range at nine when, you know, probably if he doesn't go nine, he goes ten, he goes eleven, he goes twelve. So I don't reallyready see that as a reach. Yeah, I mean, I just U Michigan must have just been a bear to play against lasties. I mean, they won the national title, but just the physicality and size that they were throwing out there and we're going to get to there. other two guys get picked right after this Um Johnson's switch ability jumped out of out of the tape. Now there there are skeptics he's pretty switchable but not like elite bam switchable. fine. I mean, there's de gradations of it Um obbviously like a great rim rununner, rebounder, all that stuff on offense.. Dabbble in shooting threes, twelve of thirty five in college and that's the like I'm just interested to see how flag plus Johnson plus lively looks. And maybe that's a premature conversation because they have a lot of veteran forwards on the team and a lot of guards. they have just a lot of guys they can play alongside Flag and a Rim running center doesn't have to be those three you know, I think, like, ag Johnson two main game is going to get switched and then it's on flag to beat those kinds of switches, which he got better and better at, both smaller guys and bigger guys beating them in different ways as a rookie. but I think that's Interesting, but look, again, you just have to trust the coach who had him for all those all those all that time in Michigan. Burry's at ten and amen at thirteen This is obviously the start of the bucks digging out of the Postianus era. U I heard they were maybe the most active team on Draft Night calling everyone with all just just fact finding like Like what they could get for some of the guys that they just picked up from Miami if they could package their picks, if they could trade picks for this and like I think they were all over the place. They end up just keeping the picks and taking Bures, who I really liked on the film that I watch and Amen who I didn't watch all that enough of to have an opinion, but it's obviously like super polarizing. Some people really didn't like them as a prospect, empty calories, all this Some people are enticed by the sort of size position, athletic profile How do you think the bucks made out here I like what they did. I think that, you know, to get Nate Aant at thirteen. I mean, that's that's that's a great swing. I mean, you take at that point in the draft, you take a swing on talent He's six eleven. He can handle. he can pass. he can shoot. he can guardold the positions. He's nineteen years old. I mean, you know, he's the development curve that he's on veryery, very different than, you know almost anybody in this draft class. I mean, he was a guy that like wasn't even ranked in the top one hundred, you know, like two two and a half years ago. And then he started his ascent And I don't think that he's anywhere near what he's going to be in, you know, in three to five years from now. I mean, the body is, I mean, he's gained twenty five pounds in the last year. He's probably going to gain another ten fifteen, you know, like in the next twelve, eighteen months and You know, just the fact that he's he's a big guard. he can and they're going to give him a runway here to to really run with that talent and, you know, like they're not, I mean, wins the losses They're probably not going to matter as much anymore. I mean, so you're going to probably start him and Buress And you're going to give them, you know, the opportunity that they need to make mistakes and and to experiment. And I think that's going to be that's going to really benefit Nate Emmond. And so I mean, I'm bullish on his talent. I had him ranked fifth on my board personally. so for them to get him eenth I think that's that's a great swing. And so I mean, I think that him and Burry's 's that's interesting. We're going to see how that plays out. but it's it's a very good start. if you're the Milwaukee Bcks and you need to hit on these two guys because you know, you don't have a I don't think they have a pick U in next year's draft and they've got a, you know, some coming down the pipeline in twenty thirty one or whatever, you know, and so that's I mean, they they need to show, you know, that they need to to make something of these two pigs And I think they did well with what they have. I like I like Bures. Aen, I don't know well enough, but you know, if you get a second pick, you sometimes use it to take a kind of a big swing and you're saying the potential is there for a big swing. Oklahoma City at twelve snags. A D Mara, a big center, obviously between that and Sorber They seem to be setting up some Hartenstein insurance down the line if this ends up being the last year that he's got the they have the team option on him Obviously, any team contending with oneam Minama for the near to medium term future is going to have all sorts of different size elements that it's going to need to have and this is one I had heard from teams just above the thunder in the draft that they were calling, trying to move up. I don't know if you heard that or not, but I wonder if they were trying to move up for Mara and they got their guy anyway Yeah, there was talk for the last few weeks that the teams, you know, that they were calling, the teams above them, you know, even going from like five through ten really and and it continued according to people I talked to like in during the draft. Yeah, exactly. I mean, people so people keep asking like, who are they targeting? And you know, there was a sense out there that it might be a Dim Mara. We don't know that for a fact, but it makes a ton of sense to draft them seven four guy with a nine nine standing reach who, you know, can really protect the rim at a high level and You know, is he ready to play a big role in the NBA next year? Probably not But he's the guy that you throw them out there and, you know three, four minute spurts and will impact the game, you know, like in his passing ability. I mean, that's going to be it's going to be interesting. Its be a good wrinkle to to give them and they're, you know, maybe the best team in the NBA developing talent And so Aam Mara is absolutely not short on talent Yeah and the biggest concern about him other than, you know, free throw shooting and just sort of developing physically and developing as an NBA player in terms of skill and reading the game was just fundamentally like how many minutes Can he play And I think that's less of a concern for the Thunder thinking two, three years down the road. we're facing Weny in a playoff series We want to throw five different looks at him during the course of the game. We have Chad Honggren who's a tent pole guy who I think is going to have to just play more five against the sppurs than they dared play him in that series Jelen Williams seems like a guy, big big Jayen Williams Arkansas Jelen Williams who will stick around the Thunder for quite some time on affordable contracts. You throw him in there We'll see what happens with Sorber He just Mara at twelve, you't you don't, you're not drafting to be your thirty five minute a game starting center. suchuch a thing barely exists anywhere in the league anyway Can I throw them in three years Can he play eight two years Can he play eighteen minutes against one Benam in a playoff series. It's an interesting that Tell me about Bennet Sturz, who the Thunder took in The Grizzlies trade down marathon where they ended up picking up five second round picks to move down five spots or six five spots to pick Karim Lopez The Thunder are going to have trouble rostering all these players even after trading Aaron Wiggins. By the way, I didn't mention that earlier with Kirk Great pickup for the Hawks. I think you got a little bit of OKase he shinine to him And people are forgetting that he was evenven when they tried to play him against the sppurs, he was played off the court. but I think he's a very good role player that the Hawks got for basically nothing great pickup by them But the Thunder still have to figure out cost cutting and roster cutting But tell me about Sturs and what he brings to the table I like stirs, you know, almost six four Um, you know, was one of the best players in college basketball this year really dynamic shooter who can also play different speeds. he's got touch. he's got creativity's very good picking role players a very good decision maker you know, not a great defender. It's probably the knock on him. He's only one hundred and eighty six pounds, but U, you know, led Iowa on best season that they've had in forty years. I mean, they made a deep NCA tournament run. I mean, it's an incredible story. started at in Northwest Missouri State He was a division two player with zero division one offers and then he transferred, you know, he went with Ben McCoullum, his head coach to Drake and then from there to Iowa. So you know, what a rise for for Bennett Sturts, you know, like three years ago, a division two player and now he's, you know, playing for the Oklahoma City Thunder. How about that Unbelievable. We'll see how he fits and it's all they just have the luxury of just bringing everyone along slowly. You know, Topch hopefully gets over all his health issues and is it part of their rotation next year And they've just got a ton of guys U I am super intrigued. Again, based on my limited study just enough to be dangerous by Charlotte taking Hannah Steinbach at fourteen and Christian Anderson juni.. maybe the best shooter in the draft, but very undersized. not very but for the NBA pretty undersized. at fourteen and eighteen Steinbach in particular is interesting to me because What may first of all, they have the sort of power forward question going forward once Miles Bridgees deal expires, whether he's back or not. Um He can spot some minutes at center two, which is a weak position for them that I think they'll probably try to address in free agency to But he is just Their biggest strength on offense was just the sheer sort of unpredictability of where's the ball, who's moving, where screening, running, different screening combinations, off ball screening passassing just it was so fast and so unpredictable And based on again, the limited FMI watchatch on Steinbach He's just kind of all over the court and makes quick decisions and can play in the middle of the court. You could play in the corners. He's an incredible offense of rebounder I feel like he fits there just like Not random basketball, but just interchangeability, unpredictability quick strike ability. I like that Again, surface level analysis. I kind of like how he fits And Anderson just seems like shooting, shooting, shooting. But tell me about Steinbach and how he fits. Steinbach is a monster. I mean six, eleven and a half in shoes, two hundred and fifty pounds, gigantic hands, seven two wingspin. He was the best reboundnder in college basketball. got Phenomenal timing. He plays super hard. He's first off the ground to every loose ball. He's really, really efficient. I mean he draws fouls, He's tough, he's physical m you know, he he showed some ability to step outside and make threes this year. I mean, he made eighteen threes thirty five percent for three Um, he's only he's twenty years old. he's gotten, you know better and better. Like every single time I've seen him the past two or three years, he was considered like a mid major guy. two years ago and then he, you know he broke out at the under eighteen European championship and then he had a phenomenal showing at the under nineteen World Cup. And then he had a, you know, a great freshman year at Washington and and here he is now he's he's a lottery pick. So I mean, I you need guys like this to to win. And I think the best part about Han Steinbach is that he's not trying to be somethingone that he's not He knows that he's a role player. He knows that his job is to screen and roll, crash the glass, duck in, draw bows hard screens and defend. And he's happy to do that And I think that's that's really important to have. you need guys like that and Charlotte Obviously they had a really, really promising season last year and and adding him and Christian Anderson, you know, who's going to be like a really good bench spark plug. I mean, you know, one of the best shooters in college basketball. you know, forty two percent for three Re good picking role player too. I mean, can really pass. I mean, made made big strides in that department on the smaller side, you know, only around six to, one hundred and eighty pounds, but You know, had a great season. And so, you know, these guys were teammates the past few summers. they know each other really well. They both play for the German national team. And so I mean, I like this draft for Charlotte and and I love everything that Jeff Peterson and his group have done honestly since they've come into to Charlotte. I was going to say the next step is the hardest, right? The next step is continuing to build up and to make sure this is like the development continues and it's not one of these, you know, it's not always linear. You don't always rise from like forty wins to forty five to fifty, but They're a good team And the steps from good to great. It's not a one year process, but that's the hardest part, but I love everything. Let's take a quick break and then we'll finish up with some draft stuff This episode is brought to you by eBay I've been hearing people talking about selling on ebate a lot lately. and honestly, I get it. We all have stuff that no longer fits our lives. And from what I hear Selling on eBay is actually really easy. J snap a few photos, write a description, set your price. Suddenly, the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next. Find what you love, se what you don't on eBay All right, today's NBA draft reactions is presented by State Farm. whether it's heading into the draft ball or life, notothing beats a great game plan. So like a world class coach drawing up an inbound place, State Farm is there to drow up the right plan for you and help you get the personalized coverage for whatever comes your way. But more on that later for now, I'm here to assist you with the NBA draft and John Thinkabon is here to continue assisting me with the NBA draft At eleven, the warriors had no shortage of trade options from what I've heard. I'm not exactly sure. Obviously all of what they were But they end up taking Yaxel Landabborg, who just as soon as that pick came across my phone, I was like Seems like a great warrior. just classic Steve Ker Warrior cut off the ball, defense, toughness, versatility There were a lot of like there were rumblings I heard during the day. I don't know if you heard this that other teams told me, Hey, we're hearing Landaberg's falling a little bit. I don't know why if it's the maturity issues and all that. He ends up not really falling at all in the wararriors snap him up despite having But I heard interesting trade options. I seemems like a good fit to me.'s a veteran. He's a veteran by driraft standards almost twenty four Um The wing position with Kaminga Gone and Moody injured and Butler injured is sort of sitting there for him to be a big bouncy wing for them. I think he's going to I liked what I saw of him on film for sure. Yeah, I like this pick for the wararriors. He's going to fit the way that they want to play and he's obviously at, you know, turning twenty four. He's ready to play right away. I mean, he was the second best player in college basketball this year after Camboozer. He's six foot ten, two hundred forty pounds seven three wingspan. He's a grown man and he's the versatility is really what stands out He can handle, he can pass, he can shoot He was Michigan starting small forward this year, but at UAB he really played center. And so he can play you can play him all over the floor, you know, the shooting really improved this year quite a bit, you know, thirty seven percent for three on high volume, eighty two percent from the line. So yeah, I mean, I mean, I heard some of the same things as you You know, sort of some concerns a little bit about H maturity and the interviews weren weren't great. I mean, he's ' a little's not he's a bit of a silly guy, I would say, you know, like I've ha been spent, you know, talk to him on the phone a little bit. and I mean, I think he's a great guy. The teammates love him. They all vouch for him. They say he's, you know, they would go to war with him. And so I think that the warriors, I mean, are going to like this pick. what did you think about the whole, you know, Lake up Dunleavy stuff?, you know, the the hot camera? I saw I saw that just before we sat down. I was like it was like, oh, Lake upp and Dunleev appear to be disagreeing on what to do I don't know. I haven't asked around. I haven't I literally just saw it before we went on. I don't really even get how that became publicized, I will say those things are often blown up into being more than they are. Sometimes they're not. likeike when Kie and Kye were seen chumming around at the All star game in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. Yeah, it turned out they were maybe talking about teaming up Um I saw I just Don Levy said I saw, I just remember what I saw. He said that Like it was asking, why don't you just make the pick right away? Why are we going to milk every second of the clock? And then L he said, like let's take our time. We have five minutes, to take five minutes. And he was like, let's just we want Yaxxel. Let's just take Yaxle, you know and don't wait. Oh, then who cares? that's a nothing burger. To me, look as a consumer of the draft, sometimes I'm like, really we need We did five minutes for Cambooer Memphis. like we just as you can just call that one in right off the bat. likeike But I guess you do like it's your job to if someone calls you and is like, we'll give you seventeen first round picks in this player, you got, you know, you got to be ready for it. so I don't make G Make much of that U let's talk about some big men. There's always players that you see when you're when you're trying to watch other players. and that was the case for Chris Seneck for me from Houston. I kind of liked him and I like Boston. taking a center And then you had the spurs taking bigig men, which had people Raising their eyebrows a little bit. What did you make of those picks Yeah, I mean With Quentence, it's all about the future. I mean, there was a lot of concern in the lead up to the draft about his knee. you know, he tours ACL at Arizona State and then He only played four games this year and then he shut it down. And you know, if there was some stuff that come up in the medical with like cartilage floating around in his knee and And you know, it's pretty clear that he's going to probably need to have another procedure. now is it a procedure that knocks him out three months or is it a procedure that knocks them out the entire season? We'll see them in NBA teams often err on the side of caution, especially when it comes to guys who are eighteen years old and so It would not surprise me if you know, Jay and Quentence is the guy that they're betting on long term and Teris Reid, who they also drafted is a guy who's ready to play right now. I mean, he's he's turnurning twenty three years old. He's one of the most productive big men in college basketball And they, you know, we saw in the playoffs that, you know, you need to figure out a way to to rest Victor Wimbunyama a little bit more. I mean, he was pretty gassed at times and you know, is this rookie? you know his draght in the twenties? Is that going to be the guy that does that? I'm not sure. but findinding a way to get like h u, you know the ability to catch his b, especially in the regular season, I think is important and just because I mean, it's such a long season that they just went through and so it makes sense, I think to draft two bigs and you know, if one of them turn out, I think you did well, especially with picks in the twenties All right, todayod's NBA Draft reactions was presented by state fararm, state fararmers here with agents and easy to use digital tools like the State Farm app to help set you up with personalized coverage to fit your life and budget like a good neighbor State Fm is there coverage oobs that are selected by the customer, Price and eligibility vary by state? Okay, wrapping up draft stuff I kind of chuckled at L Bberon Filon Junior to the sixers. Not chuckled because I don't think he's good. I kind of liked what I saw from him. U he fell a little bit further than maybe I expected actually based on based on some stuff. I don't know. you can talk about that if you want I just chuckled only because it's like U the new front office being like, Hey, sorry, we traded Jerem McCain. Here's another guard. Here's another fun combo guard for us to put with Maxie and Edgecomb. Sorry about that. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't I wasn't shocked by by by Lberarian Filon going twenty second. I actually I see I had him on my board twenty third. So he went right around where where I thought he would go., you know, the smaller guards, one hundred seventy six pounds, the defensive side. There's some question marks there. You know, there was some stuff that came up in the intntel also that people, you know, had some questions about. And I mean, but it it's it's it's an interesting spot for him because, you know, they're going to need somebody to to so up minutes in the regular season and he's He's a bucket. I mean, he's a guy that can bring off the bench and he's going to He's going to be able to score for you. So you know, he's only twenty years old and obviously needs to work on his body. needs to find another gear defensively. But I mean, there's some real talent there for Lber and Filon. He made, you know, he made a big jump from last year to this. And so I think, you know, you can never have too many guards as Mike Gany said U beforefore I let you go, any other winners, losers, perplexers, anything after that first round as we wait for the second round now er you want to get off your chest? Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, this was the first time that I've been that I u Washed a draft from home since I moved to New York in two thousand eight. I've been to the draft every single year since and I I was honestly a little bit underwhelmed. I don't know if it was just because it was so chalky or because you know, there wasn't really a single trade of like an actual NBA player, which you don't normally see, I think during the draft and all kinds of boring trades like the Nicks, the Lakers trading three million dollars to the Nicks, you know, to move up one spot. you know, It's like really Nicks, you need three million dollars, you know, like that's what we're doing here. And so I just felt like I was a little bit to be honest with you. and I don't know what exactly I was expecting, but like being there the draft, like it feels like such a big event and it feels like the stakes are so high. And just watching from home, I didn't get that impression at all. I was watching it at first with my kids and they were just like, this is really boring. I were going to bed. And so you know that was one thing that stood out You know, other than that, I mean, I thought You know, the Lakers, the Lakers moving up, you know, like that was interesting, I thought. I mean, they obviously really liked camp carar enough for their owner to say, here's three million dollars. goo move up one spot. you know, when it was pretty obvious that the Kicks were not even going to take camp carar and maybe they were concerned that, you know, somebody else is going to train into that spot. And so they really wanted campcar. I mean, he slid a little bit. I mean, he was in the green room and endnded up, I think at twenty five. So. U's that's a good little swing for the for the Lakers, I think. I was a little bit disappointed for some of these guys that you know, were underclassmen that had the opportunity to go back to school that had, you know, gigantic NIL offers on the table, you know for four five million dollars. Talking about guys like Cola Pete, like Malik Thomas, like Henry Vasar, Isaiah Evans You know, these guys took like Th to four plus million dollar haircuts last night And, you know, that, you know, in this era, like, you know I wonder like, okay, these guys Shouldn't they have the ability to go back to school now? someome of them, especially the guys that didn't go in the first round. Co Pete was the last pick of the first round. He got drafted by his hometown team, The Phoenix Suns. That's awesome for him. hisis family gets to be at every game, all that. you know, I'm sure like it might be you know, Arizona had four and a halfillion dollars on the table for him. I mean, like I wonder if there's any regret there, but I would I would love to see in the future that these guys, these Malik Thomases who, you know, this guy was a freshman decided to stay in the drafts, could have gone back to Arkansas. Henry Vasar would have been one of the faces of college basketball hadad he gone back to North Carolina? Isaiah Evans, was that Duke, you know, two more years of eligibility. I kind of wish for them that they would have the ability to go back to school now and you know, pull their name out of the draft by Id say noon or something like that You know, what, you know, we got some work to do in that regard Yeah, Koa P was we talked about it a couple weeks ago is the most obvious faller. like the reworked jumper really freaked people out and he ends up in thirty and we'll see how that goes. My favorite part of watching the Draft. everyone focuses on the fashion. fashion's schoolool, like the fashion. G crazy, go big, go bold, go grady Dick all all of it I like The agent bro hugs after the guys are drafted from the green room because I now know all the agents And so and the agents are often much shorter than the players. So it's like it's a dicey like how do you go in there And some of them they try and look cool and casual and like they'll go for the high five bro hug, someome of them keep it super casual, just a handshake. Some of them emote more than others and get a little more genuinely emotional and let their let their emotions be on their sleeves for the world to see. I like the bro hug like what's your style of bro hug? How much control do do you take of your emotions? That's why that's my favorite part now of the draft I just love watching them see them fidget, you know, These are like these guys are like all millionaires. They're so powerful. They're they they rol the NBA and then it's this one moment where like all the lies come to roost. like you know they cancel these workouts, they don't, you know, they're trying to control the draft in this way or another. and then some of them end up fllowing. and then you see them kind of it's such an awkward moment for them to see the agent sitting there with the parents and it's like, all these false promises that they made, you're going to be drafted here. You're going to be drafted there. and you know, I have so much power. I have so much control. know, I can get this team to do this and that. And there's not and they're sitting there powerless. And like that's the part, I don't know why, but I just enjoy that so much. I enjoy when whether it's an agent or somebody at the table gets left hanging sometimes, especially when it's the agent who's got like the h like they've been waiting if it's a young agent in particular, like they've been waiting for this like televised green room moment. their guy get drafted. It's like maybe it's their first like big guy. They're up there. They're smiling. They got the hand up And the player goes like mom, dad, brother, sister, coach up to the up to the podium and like the agents's like, ye Graam Great just recovers and turns the h the left hand and h fiveive into a clap. All right, Jonathan Gaboni Eress, Twitter. what else? What else we What else do you want to say? We got you got to go do the second round now Yeah, comeome to my TikTok Come to TikTo. I don't know what's on TikTok, but apparently Gavoni's there. Thanks, but I'll see you in person soon. Thanks, Zach All right, that's it for today. Borring some news. We'll be back next week. As usual, thank you to Jonathan Gavonei and Kurt Goldsbury. Thanks as always to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. And thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Low Show. We'll see you next week twenty one and over in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen and over in P presresident in DC, Kentucky, O Wyoming gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eighty eight seven eighty nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or isisit MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here