Deandre Jordan on Career and Mentorship

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The lines between ally and enemy blur like never before and survival depends on trusting no one. starring Michael Fosbeender, Jeffrey Wright, Jodody Turner Smith, and my man, Richard Geere Don't miss the agency season two, all episodes now streaming on Paramount plus On the Zach Low show, not your normal episode. We are here in San Antonio at the NBA finals. We're at the arena. They're setting up the t shirts. The jumbat Tron is on the court. I don't think it's supposed to be there. And we have a pot of guests for the NBA's first ever podcast row. their answers to the NFL's radio row at the Super Bowl, I guess. We got Ian Beggley and Tim Legler to go X's and O's on the finals and the Kicks and all the things about this series And then we have some luminaries from NBA, past, present and future talking about this series telling stories about their time in the NBA, their times in the finals. Gary Payton, legendary Seattle suupersonic and champion with the Miami Heat has some good stories about that and the Lakers. We got big shot Bob, bigig shot, Robert, he's going to tell us which one is actually right. Robert Ori is here to tell a lot of great stories and pick this series. And then Deandre Jordan and I, we have a ceremonial bearying of a certain hatchet that we will get into and then we talk about DJs career, the cllippers, the nets, the Kicks or Kyrie, Katie and DJ really going to go to the Kicks. He answers that question. We get into all of that and more, including deep dives on this incredible Nick spurs finals with Tim Legler, I and Begley. That's all coming up next on a special finals San Antonio podcast row edition of the Zach Glow Show from what they're apparently calling podcast Row at the NBA Finals in San Antonio, one of the all time great Hall of Famer, one of the all time great defensive players, a formative character in my NBA upbringing. Gary Payyton, how are you? Good, I' good. good. How are you? You ready to be at the finals? I'm always ready to be at the finals. This iss going to be a greatest situation, great moment w great teams. I think young team one young team one in the middle. So I'm going to see what happens. Deenseive player of the year, one of the best defenders of all time The two main offensive cogs on these two teams could not be any more different than they are If you had to switch on to Victor Wembonyama, what would you prime Gary Peayton do to try to guard him on a switch Well what I would do is I would just try to keep him on a perimeter You got to keep him out there and try to make him dribble a basketball and I try to steal a basketball, makeake him uncomfortable. You know, and I think that until he gets a bigger st bigger size and and stature and could push me down, I would be underneath him a lot. I would try to make him uncomfortable and try to steal the ball, hit at his hands and do things like that and just keep him on the perimeter. Was there anyone on the flip side Who from your time was like If anybody, most similar to Jail and Bronsson in terms of trying to time up their footwork old school game. and you guarded a lot of great guards. You had playoff battles with John Stockton over and over again. Is there anyone thatrunon reminds you of and, what are the challenges of guarding him? You know, John was the best to me ever, but I think Nick Vagenon reminds me of Bronsson a lot You know, because they both are lefties. they both can get to where they want to get and score the basketball. Bronson is in a different era. We could hand check, we could be more physical, you know, and then it wasn't a lot of doubling. It wasn't a lot of zones. We could take him back on the other end of the floor and punish him and make him play defense instead of just letting us be on offense and be always the target. You got to have him to be the target and wear him down a little bit And that's what I would have did to him. and that's why it was great for me because when somebody went at me, I can go back at them. I can call my own play and Io him and then make him play and then if people come And I can see them. I can d it and get it to my guys. But I think Nick Van Elson was just like Bronsson they ago. They can shoot the mid range. I think Nick shoot the three a little bit better than he did. but I'm just saying he is right there. his mid range game. once he gets you into that spot He's just like Shay. there They' deadly from the free throw line in But you know a lot of pushing off has been happening in here Yeah what do you think of that? What do you think of the pushing off That's a been a big debate in the last Yeah. I don't like it because it doesn't give a defender opportunity to guard anybody. It always give the officeive player the most advantage when he's pushing off and putting me off balance. I think you should let them play way a heads up We wouldn't have let that happen because I think of our hand checky rulle and we would have kept our hand on her hip. And if they would have pushed off, we can they can see us getting pushed off in upper chest. But they're seeing now when you go down and you where your shoulder and extend, thats that's a legal play. But I don't think I don't think it's good for the defender because he can't guard that All right, let's talk finals playoff history, Gary Payton ninety six finals, Sonics Bowls The famous storyies that midway through the series. I think you're already down three maybe three. You go to George Carr and you're like, Hey man, it's about freaking time. Just let me guard Michael. What do you remember from that conversation? And you had you asked already before the series even started? Like no man, game one put me I on Michael Jordan. I want to do it Yeah, that was it. I had one defensive player a year and he was he was an office guy at MBA. So I had I wanted to do that But I was hurt And he didn't want to he didn't want to he didn't want to exalt me, exert me and then make me then' have no offense for us because I was our office gu too with Shan. So he didn't want to do that and run and wear me down. So when the time came in game three, I told him no. I went into when we were on a plane and I said, I don't care what you say. I'm guarding from now on. No matter who you I'm taking him. I don't care who you exigning to. I'm taking him. And then it changed for us in the next two games and we made it a series. You know, I should have guard him in game one and hopefully I wish it would have been different, but we can' we can't go in a time capsule and back. Are you still in touch with Sean Kemperike I can close my eyes and see the left side pic and roll, Gary Payton, Seaan Kemper Are you guys still like every day. I talk to him every day. I talk to him everyday. It's about my phone call with him in a minute. So I talked to him yesterday. I talked to Sean him and Delta if I talk to him A lot. We werere best friends like I go see Delain Palm Spring, where he's at right now and Sean is in Seattle. I'll see Sean Friday. We're together Friday in Seattle. so I'm with him too a lot So the city of Seattle still like means something to you personally Aol. When that team comes back, do you want to be involved with it somehow? be a bigolve with the team. It's going to be a big involvement with us the the group that's trying to get it. They're very involved with us and we're very involved with them We want to make it successful. We know we should have never lost it. We shouldn't have never lost it the Supersonics, but it is what it is NBA and Adam Silvers has gave us the opportunity to get it back and now we're going to make it very, very good. I was going to ask you if the Thunder are not here, the Surs are here, but I was going to ask you Either way as a Seattle guy Do you hold some hostility have you gotten over it? Like how do you perceive the thunder? I hold hostility against the guy who took it away from us and howard shoots. I hold him accountable for that And I don't Have nothing against Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City did what they were supposed to Bennett went and took the team to his home to his hometown and did it. Who cared We shouldn have never losted it because of our bad ownership that we had and that's what it was. So I'm just saying it's great now that we got it back. It's been nineteen years and it's going to be great for them to come back. And when they do come back, we're going to be a big part of it. A lot of us old school guys that was there and made it happen. We're going to be we're going to try to make it happen again. So you get a title with the heat in two thousand six, but before that The team that everyone thought you were going to get your title with with the two thousand four Lakers. So I went back and watched a little bit. I forgot you threw the inboundnce pass to Derek Fisher on the point four shot here here. What do you remember like about the play call? Was he the first option? Like when did you decide like what are you looking for when you decide well he's the guy got to go to was I mean, it's not like a likeike a crazy daring pass, but it's read you got to make and. I forgot you had thrown it. Well, you know, when we went in the huddle and Phield was there, Philld was drawning to play up to Kobe. And they was already reacting Kobe. you remember Kobe had a big shot. He had made a big one, big shot to turn around and hit one to beat them earlier in a series. And I knew they were going to look for him. And I just told Fish. I said, Fish just run to play, man because they're going forget about you And that was it. And I just made I just made a decision. I just said that's why Phil had me taking the ball out because he was very confident in me and had had a lot of trust in me to make the right decision And when I made a decision and we went back to the locker room we want, he said, you define me again. you know, never listened to me. I said, Well Phil, look what happened with. you know, and he was wide open and they was looking for Kobe and and Fish made a big shot That was a tumultuous year for though though, for you. Have you read Phil's book about that season? I have. I have Phil Phil he says what's on his mind and he says. And we had a we had a we had a heck of a year But it was it was a more it was a learning experience for me. And the reason I like it is because I got to know Kobe better than anybody. and now you got to know him in a different way. And I miss him a lot. We were getting very close. He started to be close with my son Gary who's playingning NBA now. They were I'm aware of. I'm aware of. So it's like I I got I got to meet a guy that people misunderstood He was just a competitor. He was a basketball player and he did things. Shaq was the reason I was there anyway. He's a brother to me too. Our family is just like almost like family. So it was one of the things. and then I got to play with C Malone which is one of my best friends too as of right now And me and him got really, really close. So it was a great year for me to go to the Lakers and do that. We didn't we didn't complete the job We were hurt all year and we still made it to the finals and played against a good Detroit team. And obviously that's year Kobe's going back and forth from Colorado Colorado. Yeah. and that was a lot of things and you forgot Shaack was dealing with his contract issues. And then we only had we only had Carl for for twenty two games So now he was hurting the finals too Yeah, he was hurting the finals when we miss him for sixty and then he got hurt right back when he came right back and hurt the same hurt the same injury. And it was just something that wasn't meant for us to be So there's a story in that book I wanted to ask you about because it doesn't sound like you Phil tells a story about you're playing the pistons in the finals Kobe says in some team meeting, Hey, man, I want to guard Billus. I want to guard Chauncey And Kobe tellells Phil later I wasn't really agitated to guard Chauncea. I wanted Gary to speak up and say he wanted to stay on Chauna and Gary didn't say anything And that told me all he needed to know. Do you remember that? Beuse I don't ever I would never imagine you being like, I don't want to guard Sauner. I'm. I didn't I didn't that it wasn't the way it went. we had a what happened was is everybody was blaming because Chany was making a lot of shots because we were they were putting us in picking rolls and they were putting us in the picking rolls with Shaquille And everybody knows Shaq. he stays back and Chaelsea was coming off shooting the jumpers and I was always behind it So I said, hey Blame everything on me. I don't care I said, if we just play straight up, I can guard Chauny because Chauny wasn't that type of basketball player to get away from you And that's what it was. He was coming off picks and he was making it. And what was happening is they were sucking it in and he was hitting a lot of open shots And at that time, I was so upset I didn't want to make no Make no no animosity between people So I just told Kobe whatever, but I still guarded Chauncea. I still guarded him in the games. And we just just said, forget it. But it was happening because Our defense wasn't work the way it was supposed to be. with the Leers at the time. and I didn't want to make no controversy. You know what I'm saying? I didn't want to start no things doing the finals. and I just wanted to keep it keep it cordial. C couple more very quick questions. You are a legendary trash stalker Who in your time could rival you in trash talalking? Only one guy I think would would did it and only played against him two seasons and that was Rudlery Byrd. I think Larry Byd was the best lend trash talkaler. I think he was the best trashaler I ever heard. C you C you give me anything? Could you give me a Larryism? Well Larry would always tell you. I'm gonna give you with just one story It was my rookie here Xavier McDahiel was on our team H and Xavier was having a battle and they were they didn't like each other. He He told Larry Larry told him that I'mm I'm a bus I'm a buso A every time I play you. If I don't had as many points on you And they were blowing us out in the garden And they're up twenty and they you know, we look at the bench at the score table and Larry Byrd is coming back in. He had already told us. he said, I'm to shoot a jumper in Xavier's face. I'm had as many points on him. And if I don't, I'll quit basketball. And when he came back in, he said, I ain't got what I wasm supposed to have. And he said Yeah, X man, you supposed to be the X man Come on over here because I'm going to shoot this next shot right here in this corner and if it hit anything at the rim, anything I'm going to keep suited and I won't go to come back in the game The next play shot it Oh no didn't touch nothing and he had his thirty and he went and he sat out and he said, I told you You ain't gonna never talk to me like that And that was Larry Byr We gott to go because you got to shuffle off to another podcast and I gota shuffle someone in. But last question. you got to pick for this series? Well I think it' go seven. I think it's going to be a good series I think the San Antonio's got a momentum. I think the Nicks got a momentum But right now you start off here, who's got the who's got the home court advantage. I think it it didn't happen last last series with Oklahoma. But I think this next team is pretty San Antonio Spurn is building something with the guy who's starting to take over the NBA start Yeah, it's happening. And it's happening and I think that he's very, very moobile, He can guard a lot of things. He's going to make a lot of havoc. But he's got a lot of four good other guys around him too with that little cast he got around him. And I think they're very hungry. And I think they' got over the top They they got over that hump of being young. Now they're here and I think they're going to get a taste of it. Gary Payton says Spurs in seven. Gary, thank you for your time, man G. Thank to you Honored to have you on. Thank you Next up on podcast Row I guess that's what they're calling it. Tim Legler in the flesh of VSPN of the All City podcast Come on our podcast, a bunch of times. How you doing? I'm great, man. You youre kidding me? Livving the dream. This is amazing. Good series, right? We' got a good matchup. You couldn't ask for more in the matchup. story lines, I mean I feel like if this doesn't piqu your interest And not forget basketball fans. just like if you like sports, if doesn't speak your interest, I don't know what's wrong with you Wemby by himself has sparked so much curiosity among all the like casuals fans in my life.. And then you add in the Nicks in fifty three years in New York City, it's like a perfect storm of stuff, I've't gotten to talk to you. Um, game seven Thunderpurs What was your reaction to that game? Whether it was Chet, whether it was what did We be do to the Thunder offense? Was it injuries? likeike if you were the Thunder What's your takeaway from having your would be dynasty At least stop for a moment For me making the checklist of kind of like as I'm sitting at home at the Jersey shhore, it was nice. It was off. I had a beer in my hand. Watching the game with a couple buddies. What kind of beer? Take us, give us the picture. I got a new favorite beer. Can I say it? Yeah? a mango cart I don't even I think I have heard of that. I moved down a florida five years ago. I saw it the store. like, what's this? They're like, oh, it's kind of like blue moon, but it's a thousand times better tasting They're right. So now I've always got my fridge stocked up with manga carp. Beautiful. So I'm bring that and watching the game and so here's my thought process. The first thing honestly that my takeaway was what you're watching the game The way that they're shooters and role players stepped up every big spot because it's like the smurder. Correct. The thunder were like right there beneath the surface, Shay doing everything he could to keep a minute was shot making Uh Caseason Wallace playing out of his mind But they couldn't crack that code. And the reason they couldn't was because guys like Keldin Johnson and Dylan Harper and Derein Fox and Champeny made every shot they had to make with all of that pressure like on the road with a trip to the fininals at stake because Weemby was obviously himself, but it wasn't like he went crazy in that game They don't they don't get through that. if those guys aren't making those shots. And that was the first thing and then obviously the chat. thing Just this most head scratching sitting there trying to figure it out. I've seen guys kind of Shrink in those situations before to for a guy this third team all league ten forty left in the first quarter and took one shot the rest of the game. I don't know that I've ever seen anything quite like that for a guy that's like on that level in the league currently Um It was to your point about the Spurs role players. The thing that I wonder if in fifteen years We willll remember that on two separate occasions the Thunder actually took the lead in the game because they one was they were up by four, I think sixty three, fifty nine, one was right before halftime. And normally when that happens, you feel like, all right, the home team got over the hump, they got punched right out of the gate like did it every game. they took the lead We won't remember it because the spurs erased it both times immediately. L just immediate runs. It was so impressive. You're right. A lot of times that's when it goes from four to ten. Yeah, just like they take a j It feels a little overwhelming for the road team. especially this young group and they never let it get to that point. All right, Spurs Ns Game one tomorrow, you're going to be on the call. Yeah Weby will win the tip. So the Surs will have the ball First thing you're going to be looking for Surs offense versus Nicks defense. Is it going to be who's guarding one Manyama? Is a cat? Is it Anobbe? and what would you do If you were in Mike Brown's shoes. And anobbe as much as you possibly can. and I think try to prevent handing them off as much as you can An Nobi's the guy. For me, that's the physical profile type player you want on them laterally strong, but enough height to at least kind of like bother him a little bit up, you know, as you're contesting, a little bit, but then the strength to push him out on the floor when he goes to set screens. I think that's a critical component to the series. I'll be looking at that immediately in the first quarter. Where is he settinging him When he sets screens and both feet are inside the three point line and he's one striide to the rim, literally one. It's a completely different level of pressure on the defense and the points per possession show it different than when he sets that screen to thirty feet Andanob's going to play a big part in that. So is the pressure on the ball becausecause those guards have to start a little further out for that screen to come further out So that's for me, you asked right away, Spurs offense, N defense. That's kind of the first thing. like How are the Spurs utilizing Wemby in this matchup and where iss he setting his screens to maximize his pressure on the defense. All right, put your coach out on If Anatobbe's on Wen Yama and whether he starts on them or not, we're going to see it a lot Who's cat guarding Um That, that's a tough one because they've got shooters. You might This is where the Harrison Barnes. This is where it could swop out right when they g Harrison Barnes out of the line, but changed everything because everybody else can either shoot it or put it on the deck So that's a tough that's a tough one for Carl Anthony Town. I don't know who it's going to be. It could be Champenney. That feels like Chet guarded Champanney, but he moves around a lot. to get back to him. because he can that that guy probably more than anybody they have is capable of taking over a half four five made threes in a short period of time if you're not getting back to him. So that's tough what he obviously can't go on castle, even though you could kind of lay off him and dare him to shoot. He's getting downhill anyway if you're backed off of him. So so it's not going to be him. Plus he's in too many ball screens So it certainly't emty. Hr Fox is not going be It's tough. It's going to be tough. I think we'll see a little bit of everything. All right. So then the Kicks get the ball. They're on offense. first possession they have when the Spurs are able to set their defense Are you expecting right off the jump when Binyama and Josh Hart roaming around playing a one man zone And how do you expect the Nicks to respond to that? Yeah, I think so. and look and Josh Tart knows like and he obviously was dared to shoot it in the last series and really made cs byay. But I mean, it was so absurd like Dicks dead to which they didn't even try to get to him He was taking shots that I would even qualify as practice shots. They were they were he could have slippers on. He had that much time to shoot the basketball. That's not going to be the case here because they still have just a really good close out team So they're going to they're going to concede it. But they're also going to try to get there. And if it's Weemby, you know, I could be one step from the block and he's going to get in the air and That's a much different shot for Josh Hart. He knows he's got to step up, be ready to shoot the ball. He's going to set A lot of ball screens Okay then he can set it and slip out. Brunsing comes off and now maybe you've engaged Weemby in that ball screen, you're takaking it with you. If that ball can get out of there and get reversed. you've now got Weby lifted. You've got a further away from the action. You've got to now go win those two ones and three on twoos on the back side of that and I think you're going to see Josh Hart doing a lot of that. See, it's interesting that you bring that up because heart set in March when the Nicks blew out the spurs in Madison Square Garden Hart set the most ball screens he's ever set in any game ever in his entire NBA career. It was because of that. It was their way of saying, Hey, Wenby, if you're going gonna guard Hart but lay off of him, we're just going to bring Hart into the screening action and a shooter's going to come around the corner. you're not going to be there, whatever. And I feel like the spurs have gotten more and more and more daring with Weby in that zone of like, okay, if you try to bring Josh Hart into the action, He's just going to wave goodbye to Josh Hart and stay parked down on the baseline and be like, Oh this MKuel Bridges over here. I'll be cool. And I just don't know Like he's the first guy that I've ever seen where He's dictating the terms to the offense. They're trying to get him in the action in the action. he's just like, no, I'm cool. I can cover any amount of st. I don't know what you're supposed to do. It's tough because the other thing is, you know, looking at the Nicks and this historic run they've been on and look at the areas they're dominating number one of monst' all playoff teams points to pay fifty three a game Number one, three point percent is forty percent. N numberber one and fast break points Well, I look at the fast break points and the pain points particularly. That's tough. Sanitotono is trans How are you getting to fifty three points in the pain and how are you getting to eighteen and fast break opportunities This pur will cough it up But they recover as well as any team in the league and cutting that off. So That's like In some ways, like you're taking a chunk of the offense out in both of those areas So where do you make that up? I think the three point volume goes up for the Nixs And if they don't shoot and ought to shoot forty percent like they are now in the post season If that number drops to twenty nine percent, it's around one percent When the volume goes up as well, you don't have a chance. I think the volume goes up because it has to go up because of the way the spurs play defenseively. numberber one, they're Their initial defenders, their outer shell is so good at keeping the ball in front And then of course you got Wby back there. And the way the Nicks are running the offense's a lot of off ball moving and Brus on the baseline setting that screen and coming up to get the ball from Kat and all that. getting some of those cuts and slashes now A lot of those are taken away against this team to me points directly to the three point shooting. and that means heart Ananobbe Brunson, when he gets into his step back and Kat Kats going to have, I think, to shoot the ball more in this series than he did in the last series And they've got to shoot a respectable percentage from the three point line to have a chance because I think that's the shot. They know they can get Give me a small before we let you go, give me a small X factor for both teams that you're going to be for. it could be a guy off the bench. it could be a tactical wrinkles. Its just any small thing that comes to mind that's like this could actually be a little game within the game that swings part of the series. I'm going to put one of them. I'm going to put it on Mitchell Robinon. Okay. so now he's he's got big injy. obviously it's not going toffect shoot is ball handling. We don have to worry about that, but you know, is he in pain? Does it affect his ability to grab the ball with two hands? Can he catch a lob So we don't know that until he starts playing You're talking about against this team if you don't get your share of second chance opportunities, you're going to have a hard time you only get one shot per possession. He gives you, mean, we've seen it. he's flipped games. in an eight minute stretch because leading against against this team Yeah I get ten against this team He can do with that he can do that and that's going to supplement their office give them extra possessions against an elite defense. and not only that, like just his presence in the paint. against an attacking team against Weemby size against Castle Harper All these guys so I think Mitchell Robinson for me for the next major X factor. and then I think for the spurs, I'm going to go with Dyan Harper I just think He clearly's not phazed by any of this stuff and he's got the physical makeup play through any physicality The shooting can be a little bit streaky So what if So what impact does he have in this series as a scorer If he's a little bit more limited or he struggles a little bit, that's going to be a big bonus for the nextick because if he's also coming off the bench and giving you those games twelve, fifteen, eighteen points, if he has nights like that, it's tough to beat this team. So a couple of just riffing off that I looked at Before the Thunder Sies Thunder Spurs When it look like the Thunder we're going to be fully healthy with JWub and AJ Mitchell all that. man this is the most powerful offensive team The spurs are faced. And I was wondering like and I was going to mention this in my preview and forgot, are we going to see more minutes of Harper Castle Weembinyama and no Fox, Not like they're going to bench Fox, but like Fox maybe goes down to twenty eight minutes because they just need their A plus defensive line upp out. And if you look at the numbers when those three guys are on the floor together, Harper Castle Wembeninyama, it's like you can't even score on the sppurs And Robinson I said this on my preview pod last night. I think it's barely hyperbole and maybe not hyperbole at all to say his health could swing the entire NBA finals. I think he's that important specifically against this team Because the more I've watched Oaminyama and the Spurs and the more I've talked to people who are trying to build their teams with him in mind I think a player like Mitchell Robinson as close as you can get is like a must have against Medama. likeike you got you got at least make him think. If I go up to block this shot and I don't get it Is there someone behind me who can punish me And like and also or catch loobs behind me and like you're not going to get all of that in one player all the time, but you get that like Mitchell Robberinson is the perfect kind of guy for that. And the other thing, those are all great points why he's so important. The other thing is he eats up fouls Meaning he protects cats Okay, because you can what are you going to are they going to go with, you know, let's say what they go with Hug Porty? I don't think they would trust them in the situation. You could play Anabobbe at the five. I think that's I think that's what they go probably will if that's what they have to. That's why those fifteen minutes, whatever it's going to be for Mitchell Robinson are so important because he's absorbing minutes that Carl Anthony Towns could be on the bench and not picking up fls because we know he's prone to that So that all those reasons you mentioned. I just look at him and I'm it's going to be fascinating to see when he checks in what his impact and effectiveness is and And if he looks pretty good in game one, I think we probably can expect that the entire series and that's a total totally different look for the Nicks. Yeah, I pick Nixon seven Either way, obviously, I w a long series just from entertainment. perspective I do it's a weird thing. I do think that Nicks need to get one of the first two in San Antonio, evenven though you say, well, they have home court going back the other way. it all evens out. I just think it's so hard to win four out of five even if you have home court after the first two games. I think Everyone's going to say they gott to get game one. I don't care which it is, but I do think if they go down to l It's going to be really tough for them. You have two teams that right now are at peak level on both ends of the floor So The number of things that have to go right to win a game against either of these teers is a lot of things If you go now to O, I agree with you, you know, then you just it just becomes math s four out of five including the last one on the road If that's what it takes like against a team that's like at peak level That's hard, man. They're deep. They're great defensively They can be great offensively. So that's that's difficult. I agree. like And I don't necessarily people like, o game ones, game oness everything. I'm like, I don't agree with that Blen split is like get one of these two could I mean, it's already nuts and bananas in Madison Square Garden. like the games we've called and we called games in the last two series, you know, Philly and U Clance, Cleveland. One one It's going to be in the garden for next Monday can you imagine like and and now that fan b is really sensing it Maybe this is it, man. This is the year. we got the split we wanted. So. split, I think very important to the Kicks. I think we got a long series. I think we are great finishes in this series And as a guy calling it, I hope so because we didn't get much of that in the Easter confference F No we did not. We didn't get much of that game one We gotame one that's an epic one. It was an epic one. But not much in the Cleveland. not much in the Philly series, notot much in the Atlanta series, right? because we got involved in that when it was like it was sixty point lead the game we called. So we haven't had a lot of those compelling three minutes to go coming out of that timeout. Anybody can win this game ents and I think we're going to get several of them in this series Tim Legler, you're the best. listen to him on the Al City podcast of that and Morris and on the call with Mike Ran and some some nonsense Souting host that's one low below me, Richard, something I don't know what his name is. S shiny down there. Is that the trophy or Richard? I think it's a trophy. I don't know. No one brought the trophy to me. I don't think that's fair. think every host should get a piece of the n. right off there set Legs sanks man. I'lls to. off course. got it A, look who it is. seven times you got to hold this thing or a version of this thing. rightight there ninety four ninety five, Houston Rockets my favorite championship. That's a favorite one. Yeah. Why is that the favorite one? Robert Oy, by the way if you needed any introduction, whyy is that your favorite one? Because this is a journey, man. you think about who we beat on that run, you know, Carl Malone, John Stockton In the next round, Ts Bark Lag Kevin Johnon the next round. rightight here. he gets the MVP David Robberinson Dennis Robin and that crew and then we go on the sweephack and Penny. So that was a fun championship. So ninety five. I was a senior in high school. Die hard me die hard NBA fan though and a couple of guys we would just watch every game And we were like Almost Vicariously embarrassed for David Robinson because of what Hkim did to him in that series. Were you all did you all feel like you were part of that with him? Like we're going we're all going to show together who the real NVP of the league is? Yes. it was a fun series man because then spur to beat just five times in the regular season. You know you play out pointons five times in the conference. And so they pretty much own us and it's almost like once they gave David the MVP Tropy Dream was locked in And he was doing stuff we hadn't seen all season. it was mean, man. It got to the point where you're in the court going, ooh, you know, you' supposed to do that as a player. You both get, oh, I see this all time. We're like, o, give him dream, k him dream. So it was it was just a wonderful thing to watch. And also at ninety five, that's when, you know, I kind of got my nickname. That was big that's the birth a B big shot Bob. Is it Bob or Rob? Where are we going? It started out as Bob. I like Bob because you know, after my father, but my mom There's a story behind that and she didn't like them calling me Bob because my dad and she changes the roob. Okay. somew we'ere down in line. got changed the roob because they heard the story. I mean, moms generally you should get the final call. I feel like feel best. That's the reason I went to Alabama, not Georgia Tch because my mom like, you're going to Alabama. so far no best. So the Kicks are back in the finals. Obviously the last time they were there was nineteen ninety nine But the one before that, the one they really had a chance in you were there for the Uon Rockets in nineteen ninety four All time epic series, seven games comes down to the wire in game six and game seven. the whole thing Do you remember a lot of people with the Nicks have told the story about the OJ game? What do you remember about the OJ? The OG game is game five I believe. You know it was like game three, I think.ame whatever it is. Yeah one of three or four. Yeah. But do you were you also made aware at some point during the game? somethingomet is happening in the world? No, we were playing and then you know, back then, you just had a VCR And you that's how you recorded the games to be sorry. So when we came back into the locker room at half timee. know we usually watch the game. We were like, what the heck is this going on? L someone said was OJ. This is halfime. This is halfime. halftime. Yeah. and it was so we didn't we didn't have we couldn't even watch any film the next day because it was all OJ. and it was just that's the only time we didn't finish anything. We were locked in there. We we didn't care about OJ. We wanted to try to get our first championship as a team. So reed End of game six Nick down by two. Starks takes the last second three that Hakim just barely gets a piece of it. I re watched I was like let me see where Robert is on display. You're guarding Charles Oakley, who's the inboundnce passor. But can you close your eyes and see that? And when that was there a moment where you were like, oh God, this is this is If this goes in, it's actually over. Yeah, I did. I was watching that and I was like Dream's not going to get there And he go go gets his arms and got there and you think about how hot stock was that game So if Dream doesn't block that, I think Stark makes that because he was shooting that he was shooting really good that game. And I remember I was on the garden and I was like, no. it came open And thank you Dre. That that's all I had to say. Yeah. Also on that team, Mario Ellie. a couple of famous incidents involving Mario Ellie are part of your career. That's the you beat the sunons in that playoff run. Yeah. And that's the game. that's a series where Danny Age frustrated at the end of the one of the games. Yeah pegs Mario Ellie in the head Cose range.ose No, I mean, I watched it again to remind myself like, damn, that would have taken me out. And you got to think about it people get Danny Aines was better at baseball. Yes. And so he was a pitcher. and so he did do that It infuriated us. We were pissed by that. Yeah. No flash forward three years. You're a member of the Phoenix Ss and Danny Age is one of the coaches.. And what happened You wrote that story? Yeah. started like we play we was playing this where he and I really started button heads was was playing the bulls I think the bulls beat us by like twenty, thirty points and I was saying that, youo We went to practice and was like, what office is this, office is theread was like Defense sucks, man and Dany had the nerve to stand up like, you're the worst defensive player on the team. I'm like, hold on. There's Wesley Person. There's Danny Manning and you call me the worst defensive player on the team. There's something wrong with you Fr that moment on, we hate each other Even more. it has it has it thawed? H what? As it thoughtawn? Have you got I'm saying as what? No I mean joking No. No it has not. You know. The funny thing about it is when he traded me, he says I probably just won you another championship when he traded me. So he traded me to the Lakers I have no ill will. I really really, if I could go back in time, I would handle that situation way better, you know, because I was at a time my daughter was sick in the hospital. I had just came from a you know a team where the coach was work hard in practice, a team where they was like on a country, you know, country club atmosphere. So it was just a lot of things going to me mentally and physically that it was just a frustrating time. and am I going to apologize for it? Noope because it's Dany Ains. Anybody else I would apologize. So so on the ninety three ninety four Rocks just just trivia purposes Chris Jent now an assistant coach with the K Nicks and on the nineteen ninety seven Suns because he got traded from the Rockets to the Suns with you Mark Bryan who was going to stand up for you in the locker room if there was ever like Joe Klein wanted to fight you in the after you threw the towel at Danny Age. also an assistant coach with the Nicks. There's like a lot of Nicks Robertory connections going on here. Yes, you know, we swept a head coach put a Ns and wheels with spurs. There's a lot of connections going on But I think Mark Bryan iss my guy. you know, he was he's been my guy since he got there. And you know, I kind of got mad got Chris Jin. I love him to de. I got mad me sarcastically We got the championship video, and he's all up in the video more than me. He's I only been here three weeks. I've already an MBA championship. baby. I'm like, whyy is he in the video and not me? But Chris Jent was like, I loved him. I really wasn't admirired him when he was at Ohio state the way he played defense. And so I'm a big Chris Gent fan. All right, so you made sure you get traded to Lakers. And then you three peete When in that three year you four years total with the Lakers, I feel like, right? My career seven years. Yeah. with When in that run, the heart of it though, the championships and the near championships When do you start worrying about like this Shack Kbe thing doesn' doesn't seem like it's going like it doesn't seem like they're getting along very well. Well, you know, for me, If you go back and look at the people you have on your team You keep players at bay. You think about Be Shaw Hart myself, you know, Rick Fox Fish and John Sally, it was no riff d in the locker room. There was no riff in practice. You know, in the suime that guys getting fights. you know, I'm sure you heard about guys fighting in practice. It was no riff and then all of a sudden, you know, we're gone. the guys who were like the glue of the team are gone. and then that's when they really, you know exploded. And you think about, you know, all the stuff that happened with CoV, all happen shack the next day and they make to the final they get beat up by pistons and so it goes to show you that Guys that are in your locker room are so important if they're not the stars because they are the voice. Everybody thinks it's the coaches. The coaches aren't the voice. It's those veteran players who know how to hold guys together and hold them accountable. And I think that was the key because we were always talking to Shaq. Shaq and I saw fre ths every after every practice. I had a voice. We could talk to them like, man, it's not about you And COVID is about us. And so with those voices gone, you see what happed? So you signed with San Antonio after that as a free agent, but were you were you like Did you want to go back to the Lakersere you mad that the Lakers weren't bringing you back? I was actually mad. Yeah I was actually mad. I didn't talk to Jerry Bus for like five years. And I thought what the way they handle it was unfair to me for a person. anytime you wanted someone to do something, it was me coming out, you know, okay, I do this, I do this and And then all of a sudden, I say, Okaykay, I know you wantont carmone so bad that you're not gonna to bring me back. Allow me to go early let me go early so I could find a home and they didn't do that. And so luckily someone fell out of the rotation for the Spurs. I sign people don't know I signed a one year deal with the Surs. Yeah. I looked it up to. and I didn't have a good year because people understand when you play for pop, he has a million plays. So it takes you a little bit to understand the system. Then the next year I signed another one year de for Lague Mental We won it in two thousand five and he signed for three years and you know and after two thousand five, Mark Kuman offered me way more money to come play for the Mavericks. I said no, I like it here in San Antonio and plus I can get on this freeway and go see my daughter who's in and out of the hospital when I need to be. So it was about, you know being comfortable for me and enjoying the team and I really enjoyed playing for pop I like the culture. I like the structure. I like how you go to practice, you practice hard. It was no country club stuff. A lot of these teams don't practice hard or practice all nowadays, but I really enjoy the environment here. So big shop,ob, if I say that to people they're going to think of the Lakers King shot the one that Vlade tips right it back out to you. Yeah and you make it I don't think enough love gets placed on two two finals, Detroit, San Antonio. You're down by two on the road. like the whole finals is in the balance. You're inbounding the ball, five seconds left or something like that. No, ten seconds left. then you make the shot with five seconds left. You're inbounding the ball. Rashid Wallace is on you, but he decides I'm not guarding the inbounder. So you inbound it, Manu passes it right back to you and you make a three putut the spurs ahead by one. wereere you like holy shit, he's not guarding me. getet the ball right back to me likeike did you make eye contact with Manu? or were you surprised that She was making that decision? I was shocked because when I threw the ball it was like a And one the thing about people laugh me say they talk about how much I hate bounce passes. I hate them because they're slow, but that's the only thing I could get to Mu because the play was for Manu. And so Riv's kind of like, okay, I'll go trap And I was like, no, he didn't just leave me open because to me back to your point, like nobody talks about that and what I did in the second half of that game and the shots I made. We're going to get to that in a second. And so but it' just for me, I just felt like incredible that He I was like, okay, you leaving me. I've never been this hot in my life. You know, so he was did you think it was going in? Oh I knew was going in because on the when I watched it today, it looked it looks long. when it's in the air, it looks like it might be long and then it hits back Rim and in. So you knew you're like it feel it felt good. it felt great And that's the thing for me, I've always known if my shots are going to go in. Maybe like one out of maybe like twenty, I might not know. if it's going in and it doesn't go in. But when my shot is on, I know if it's in or not. What I hadd forgotten in that game was right before that. This is like one of the greatest forgotten dunks in the history of the NBA. They kick it you on the right wing. I can't remember what score was going through a bad pass. whatever. They kick it you on the right wing She is not guarding you. He's rotated and you have a clear land of the basket and you go and like people I think people think you a big shot guy, great all around player defense rebounding passing all that High flying I mean, you could dunk. You are a dunker coming out of Alabama, but this is like an in game masterpiece. You drive in and throw this lefty like lefty arm extended over Richard Hamilton who tries to draw a charge on you and won. and you missed the free throw, which we don't your shoulder was hurt. shoulder hurt I was in so much pain. You miss it short, but that dunk Is it one of those moments where you go up like, I guess I gott to try to dunk this or in mid areir you're like, holy shit, I might dunk this. It it's an amazing dunk. It's a holy shit moment because you try to dunk and, you know, all the time and it's a lot easier when you like press and you can get up and like this was like fourth quarter You know, and I'm like tired and' been playing minutes playing against a tough No Detroit prison So when I took off, I was like Of course, I think I can' I think but if you look, I barely got it over. It wasn't one of those dunks. It was just So it was a pretty good dunk. It was a pretty good dunk.. And the thing about Rip, Rip always we've been to a lot of events together. He always says, man, you're the only guy who's ever dunked on me in the NBA. I said, yeah, you should have moved out the way All right, seven time champion.'s there's a whole groundswell of like, we got to get Robert Aoria in the Hall of Fame, makeake him the first quote unquote role player in the modern NBA to get into the Hall of Fame. Is that something you want? If you been have you advocated for that? Do you feel like you deserve it? I've never been a self promoter. I just feel like I just go out and do my thing and I let people, you know do what any need doing for me? Do I feel like I should be in Hall of Fame? I said yes, because what are you going to say no? L you know trrust me, I'm very honest. And you think about it, people look at Hall of Fame and look at NBA. It's not NBA Hall of Fame. It's a basketball Hall of Fame. It's what I did in high school. It's what I did in college. it's everything that you've done. And people don't understand like in order to be as successful as I was, you don't understand how much I had to sacrifice in order to be successful. You know, you look at my first couple of years in NBA, I had a pl. I was scoring. I was doing this. I should have made all defensive team, but I didn't. You and Casell coming in together in the same drive class was like, whoa, these rookies are ready to play. And that's the whole thing that. That's the one thing I regret that I never made all defenseive team. You think about it first cl ever to do a hundred blocks, one hundred stealss, one hundred threes in a game It's crazy. You know, And it's so many accomplishments that I've done and nobody's ever done You know, so many records I have but It gets kind of squashed because I think They look at who I' playing with Dream and Clyde, Shack and Kobey, Tim Manu and Tony. they always say, he rolle their cocktails. if it one for me, it'd probably be like five championshipions that some of those guys wouldn't have won. I forgot about this. We are in San Antonio. Have you and Steve Nash ever talked about the hip check? Steve Nash from two thousand seven Pe would' understand, Steve Nash is my boy Steve that was my rookie when I was in Phenix. He and I used to hang together all the time. And you know, we have people if you don't know what I'm talking about just just do Robertor a hip check. It'll come up two thousand seven Western conference finals two great great teams, two, two. People got off the bench and were suspended. But have you talked to him about this? We talk about it all the time. I told him, said, man, you flopped on that. Beause you look, you know, my arm never went out I was watching the inter. That's why it's called a hip check. but no, here's the thing is it shouldn't I shouldn' have been suspended for two games. Every time I see The guy at Tana Supreme I want to push him down and flight the stairs That cost me sixty thousand dollars. And so I'm like, but no, it would just should have been a hard f. you know, we forget he's a little guy. He's a MVP. They want to suspend me. He's got the bandage on his nose already. It wasn't from me everybody No, no, no. it wasn't me. I got it on. That was from Tony Parker. Yeah. But right after the game, they interviewed, I don't maybe it was short I don't remember what it was but you give an interview with do you just say like, hey, I was trying to draw a charge and I got there late. like, that's a good explanation. I gott to say that's a good alibi. I was trying to get over there and I was like I'm not going to make it. Like I said, I'm a realist. I say, okay, one of us's got to take this punishment. So I like, but I tell him I am a wall. Steven N was a tennis ball. Of course he's going to bounce off a wall. So it just looked betterad than the way it was. All right. lastast question because you got to keep making the rounds. You stop. I'm not going home after this. Okay, well it's a great. I'm going home after this. I heard you down there on the road tripp and show with those guys. I heard a prediction come Yeah. I couldn't hear what it was, but it was six. I heard somebody in six. So was six Spurs and six Surs and six. I think If you look at the way the Spurs played They match up a really well with're the next But the Nicks don't match up that great with the sppurs And for me, I think when you watch a lot of these series Bronsson is a liability on a defenseivevent There's no liability on the defensive in foot of Spurs. Think about who Champini is toing is fox probably and especially if the ankle sprain is bothering. I think Brunson will gohead foox a little bit in this. but those guys aren't the most important player I think Overall toowns and how he defends Wimby depending on if Mitchell plays, but I think that's the most important thing, but I still think the sppurs in six. sccary man. if Wimby is winning titles this soon in his career It's all scary. Yeah It's scary, but you know what? though just like they were mad at OKC You have no come back N should M at. Okay. she's going to come back Mat. All right, Robertory, truly a pleasure. And like seriously, I say this ats the end. One of my favorite players ever to watch because I always gravitated to the guys who did the subtle things and and lifted everyone around them and you were like the archetype of that guy, not just three ind D. It was three ind D and a little bit everything. good passasser and everything.'s great to Robert Ooy, every budd, Thankk you, sir. Oh and Larry O'Brien, nice to see you. one hundred free events sixix thousand kids One mission. Clic Kids is using sports and evidence based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities. Up through august twenty twenty six, they're running one hundred free sessions for school and community based organizations near you. Learn more at clinickids dot com slash one hundred kK That's Clinic withith a K ks is registered by one c three nonpfit This episode is brought to you by Nas Energy. Introducing new NAS Eergy Grand Prix Guava For those that want to be fueled up and fired up with one hundred bound hour tropical tasting power Ignite your taste, start your ine A flavoreor to high gear with new Nas Energy Grand Prix Guava Hit the street, grab a can and get after it T at the NBA Fals, we're going to talk about the actual NBA finals. Ian Begley from SNY home of the twenty six and thirty four New York Mets, baby. N not in last. We might be in last A again, we got out of last briefly. Nice to see you. Always nice to see you Zach. It's good to do this in person. It's nice, right? Yeah. Never has maybe not never. seldom has so much attention and scrutiny been paid to how a player shakes hands high fives shoots free throws. What's he wearing on his hand is Mitchell Robinson today? The Ns were Ki about his status for game one. No one has really reported How he hurt his pinky finger slash fifth metacarpal, whatever we're talking about. What do we expect for game one? Looks like he's going to play did he look like he was doing most everything. Yeah, He didn't seem limited. I think he's going to play. He wants to play. The Nicks are hopeful that he can play. I don't know if he's been fully cleared by the Nick medical staff. That's the last hurdle because he was doing individual stuff and practices prior to this one. and Mike Brown had said he hadn't been cleared for the whole thing yet. So we wait on that but I'm assuming He's going to play. Obviously he'll be limited though, right People kind of try to downplay the significance of this injury, but he's got to rebound on the basketball. You need to grab it with both hands. He's got to finish Alie Ues. And also when he's on the floor, Viictor Wemanyama, I think is going to be defending him. So his role in this series is a significant one. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting. I think they need him to be eighty percent productivity wise and whatever. like no one knows what his pain tolerance is going to be. but I think they need him to have a good series in order to win and And I saw Sean's reported today that I don't know if you've reported this, but forgive me if you have that it was something at his house with like an injury occurred at his home. I will say Um There doesn't seem to be a lot of like anger or consternation from the Ns people. Like like there was initial people went through to the worst possible con of scenios. likeike did he punch a wall? Was it something stupid? They don't seem to be acting like it was something like that. I mean, it's a boxer's fracture. Yeah. so That way you will. But yeah, it was not in a game. It was not in practice. Mike Brown said that publicly, which surprised me. And I think When this happens, everyone's kind of caught off guard. I think in that locker room, there was kind of some people just I'm not confused but concerned and just wondering why now. Why now. But maybe definitely why now? Yeah, after you hear the story, maybe there's an explanation there. I mean, there's a million rumors kind of floating around about what happened, what didn't happen. I can't report anything on that, but yeah, did not happen on the job What is your life like right now? Is it like you and I are both friends with a lot of Kicks fans. We live amongst a lot of NickXs fans. but you cover the Kicks. Is your life just a nonstop parade of everyone that you know asking you, arere they going to win? Are they going to do this? Can you get me tickets? Like What are some of the questions All the above. Yes, all the above I love all my friends, but the worst part is like when there's a big news event and I'm scrambling trying to figure out whatever's going on, and I'm getting texts from a guy I'vet talked to in three years and he wants like the lowdown on what's happening. I'm like, man, I last saw you at my wedding. Like what what's happening here? Why are you reaching out to me? But no, it's all I mean, this is exciting time for obviously the franchise Anybody covering the team. It's a good group. So what can I really complain about at the end of the day? So I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. and it's nothing bad, but you think about the roads not taken for this group in the last four or five years. And I remember I had you on my podcast when I was at ESPN. were both you were not at ESPN. I don't know. We were both the ESPN at some point. But when the Donovan Mitchell non trade happened Yeah There was this you were at the forefront of reporting what was offered, what was offered when. And it was like this would they put a third pick in, but they'd only put a third pick in if RJ Bera was not in the deal and it was like lutations. Yeah. And I looked back at your reporting and some other reporting. I'm like, man What happened here? and like did they really want Donvan Mitchell and then they faced him in the last round? So when you think back to that like How close were they really? And because if they do that trade, then they obviously don't have some of the assets. They then trade for bridges and other things don't happen. What do you remember from that? because they faced off and I felt like that didn't get enough kind of attention as a storyline. Right. And I just remember Even people around Mitchell in the weeks leading up to it saying This is going to get done. I mean We think it's going to get be done. It should get done. We expect it to get done. And I think Donnaman Mitchell hass gone on the record saying he thought he was going to be a Nick. So I don't know if it was for a lack of interest, but it was Leon Rose at the end of the day because it's his decision deciding I'm not going to pay X for Donoaman Mitchell. And you know you noted, the OG and and Obe trade comes after that. And then obviously the bridges trade and the towns trade. And so there are so many things that did happen that may have never happened if he pulled the trigger and it was RJ Barrett was a big part of it. Remember they extended Barrett and that kind of ended any legitimate trade talks. And so yeah, the cascade from there. and you could also talk about, look, maybe the picks are still there for them to go after Janis last summer in a serious way. So Radess not traveled Leon Rose has made by and large the right decisions here. evenven going back to the Josh Hart trade, like onene of the most underrated, including by me. I would I always love Josh Hart, but those kind of trades they just they become footnotes at the trade deadline because there's so much huge stuff that happens and you're like, first for Josh Hart seems fine, whatever Just such a great trade. Yeah It's impacted the franchise. I would put him right under Jayen Brunson as far as reasons this thing has turned around the way it has. And you know him because you're around and you're a fan. You can't appreciate him by just looking at a boxler. You cant. You've got to watch every play and the intricacies of his game and he calls himself a servant, which I think is a perfect descriptor because he just wants to make the four guys on the floor with him better make it easier for them. I think that's important. It's not even just easier I think people used to say this totally different player to me about Ricky Rubio of a guy who's just fun to play with. L forget that Josh Hard is selfless and plays hard and makes the extra pass and does the dirty work and stuff like that. It just looks like it'd be a lot of fun to play with him. He wants to play fast, He wants to pass. He's kind of adventurous like in a daring way that would be fun to play with and every team kind of needs a little bit of that. You you mentioned Jonis, and one of the things I've been wondering like obviously we haven't played the final Jo. We're sitting here before game one. it could be four O sppurs and they win by twenty every game. I picked Nixon seven, it could be a close series, whatever There was this notion of James Dolan laid down the gauntlet. This team has to get to the finals a disappointment. and boy if they don't All these changes could take place H this team done enough that like Those doors should pretty much be closed. this like enough with the Yonest talk, enough with this stuff like is this team going to look like this basically? I would think so, but you know, the scenario that you mentioned, if you're non comppetitive in four games, I think those questions remain. But I think at this point, Mike Brown is back. I think you can say that in maybe not a shharpie Maybe an erasable marker, but it seems like he'll be back at this point. I would hope so. Right But to your point, like if it doesn't go well at all. I don't think that's going to I would be very surprised if this a non competitive series.. I think it' be a great series. and I think yeah, everybody will be back. no major changes. You got to figure out what to do with Mitchell Robinson, figure out what to do with a Miles McBrad extxtension But it should be the same cast back next season. Could this have happened with Tibbs? I asked Nick people that man for the last few days. The one answer that I got, which I found interesting was that they said they didn't think so only because the idea that these guys very loose and Tibbs right or wrong. like the further you went, the more intense he got and that kind of rubbed off on a room. And you saw them in practice. These guys are light right now. And so I don't want to disparage Tom Tib at all. did a great job. great job. If you want to win games, he's a great coach sire. Foundational piece. But you look at the big decision they made around this time last year, we all had questions about it and it's worked out in a way that they had hoped it would It absolutely has and you mentioned them looking loose and stuff. Kat talked a little bit of media availability today about the aftermath of game three in Atlanta. And he made comments to the effect, I believe, I don't know if you were in the room, but he was talking today about, you know we all had to look ourselves in the mirror, not only about like how we're playing and what we need to do to sacrifice for the team, but like How many of us are going to be Nicks next year if we don't pull out of this And then they haven't lost the game ever since then. So I wonder what you have observed or can tell me about like the afterm that moment of We're down to one to a team we should beat. Is this like how do we turn this around? and like obviously something changed? Sure. And so part of it was, I think the coach' message was you guys are letting your foot off the gas here. This is not the time to do that. There was the offensive change with Carl Towns. I think part of it though was a mentality shift and Towns maybe was getting at that a little bit. I think I talked to Mileswg Bride in Philadelphia after they swept. And he said we Mileswick Bride hit like, nineteen three crazy last. Yes yes. And so he said that, you know, we knew we were a good team But we were kind of waiting for the opponent to give us the game and that was the issue. And after that game three, they talked and it switched from to we know we're a good team. We have to go out and take the game. We can't just wait for somebody to make mistakes. I think that's maybe it sounds like a cliche, but it is kind of what you've seen from them during this winning stream. They've been I think they've been favorites every round so far in the playoff. certainly I picked them every aroundound. I think they've been favorites every round Have they talked about or thought about being underdogs for the first time in the playoffs at all in their media recently? I haven't been in there when someone has been asked that question or answered it. But I think that regardless of whatever the label is, it starts with Jayen Brunson, like he's not going to concern himself with what I think, what you think, what Vegas thinks. These guys are locked in at such a high level on the daily details of what they need to do on the floor, even during these breaks, it just seems like the outside noise It's all around them, but they're not hearing it and that starts with Brunson. You, like many others, have lived through a lot of tumultuous times in Nickland. And as they have risen to this point this year, a lot of us have gone back and just to put in perspective how far they fell and how far they have come sort of highlighted some of the low lights, I guess, of the last twenty years. We've talked earlier today about a couple of maybe the forgotten low lightights that you might want to highlight.. I give you the floor. Sure. I mean I would go Derek Fisher, the fist fight with Matt Barnes. It's a good one. him missing a practice all the way across the country Well he was the head coach of the team. Not a player Nick And then a later iteration of the head coach Kurt Rambus, who did a solid job. and I think believed that he was going to maybe get the job and Phil Jackson went a different way. But I remember there was a day where the Daily News wrote a story about his Twitter account liking a not safe for work tweet. I had totally forgotten about this. It turned into a old story. He was asked about it. The Nicks put out a statement saying, you know, we think Kurt got hacked and we're actively working with Twitter on an investigation. It was the most absurd thing so that you could point to three, four, five of those and it was really There were the density of those ridiculous stories. you almost you just smacked your forehead. But now Leon Rose, here we are several years into his presidency, there's a competence. and that the clowns, the circus stuff, the buffooner, it's not there anymore. And part of me wonders, Zach, and I'm curious to hear what you think. Leon Rose had a front row seat to this for you know, twenty years as an agent. He always had a client in New York He was always, you know, doing his job, which meant you know talking to the front office, trying to figure out what was going on. I just wonder if that experience seeing all the lows and the crazy stuff, if that informed the way he goes about his job as team president. How could it not, right?? How could it not? And I completely there's so many things that you just forget about happening and that was one of them Well, do you make predictions or no? I don't think you do, right? I'll make a prediction. S, I can't say Nixon seven because the way San Antonio played in Oklahoma City in a game seven for them to have a game seven at home, I mean, I just think they would handle the Nix So I would go Nixon six. Nixon six, Wow. I'll tell you this, I already told my wife If the Kicks win in game six I don't think I'm coming home likeike I don't think I'm going to be able to make it home. I don't I think you just need to plan family activities without me get forty eight ready. Yeah. I think it's going to be a long series. I pick Nixon seven. I think Robinson is a huge X factor, But I really think they can do it. They're underdogs and they deserve to be underdogs. The spurs are that good and they have the best player in the world probablyably in the best player in the series I think the Kicks have stumbled on not stumbled. I think they have found some magic and some alchemy that is real And like I think they can actually do it. So we'll see. I Beg to Reminyama. That's where Yeah And how who guards who and how that works and who breaks first. Ian Beagu will be here to chronicle all of it for SNY and it's a pleasure seeing you bud. Always a pleasure see you on the block. Absolutely. Careful on Twitter accounts. Careful on those Twitter streets. All right, last, but definitely not least from Podcast Row This year's winner of the Timan Stokes Award for Teammate of the Year in the NBA. I think eighteen year veteran? eighteen years, ye. Deandre Jordan. That is a long time. Yeah, long time, long time. A lot of ice baths stretches and S chamers and all that Second round pick. Yeah fell out of the first round, collollege coach. I was rereading some stuff he didn't he didn't like, you know, didn't have the most ring endorsement of you. here you were great. eighteen turned not great. so I appreciate that. Thank you. So you are at the finals. We are at the finals. And I went back and I had to you know, like I think of you, I think of Lob City and some of the other stuff the kidnapping, which will'll get to in Dallas. But you then eventually sign with Dallas as a free agent And Rokie Jal and Brunson is on that team. So you're kind of attached to this series in a couple of different ways, but you're on that team for most of the season before you get traded to the Ks Yeah. Did you get to know Jelen at all? and did you tell what was there? Yeah, I mean, Jen was always super talented, you know. He just was playing with and sometimes behind Luca, you know, and that's all it was. And Jana' obviously He was a great college player. He's a great pro. he's an all star Um And I just think sometimes it's just situations that can help blossom a player and he's walked into a great one in New York. Then you get traded from Dallas to the Kicks as part of the PorzZenas trade, which is like a I lived in New York at the time. That was like an explosive moment in New York. People were like really mad about Por Zinggas and what are they doing? But you come to New York and on that team is Mitchell Roson as a rookie. What do you remember about him? I mean, Mitch was just so raw, you know, but he obviously had the tools to be a great shot blocker, a great defender, a great rebounder, and I think that he's kind of stepped into that role. and you know he started some points of his career and coming off the bench now. And I think that he has really just been a star in whatever they're asking him to do. And I think that he's going to be huge in this series. He's a big X factactor today in this series. They really need his offensive rebounding behind Victor But did you get a ch I mean you're only there briefly Did you get a chance to like because he's like broadly similar to you as a player Did you get a chance to talk to him about Aolutely. We together a lot. Yeah. Well, because he also as a young player was not shy about like, Hey, I can shoot threerees. I can take people off the bounds and you went through a little bit of like, I want to score more. Did you talk to about that that we talked about that And when I got there I had already done a lot of the individual accoles throughout my career And I thought Fiz did a really great job of You know, kind of letting me take him under my wing a little bit. And Mitch was super receptive. He embraced that. He wanted that criticism, He wanted to get better. and we worked together a ton. And he saw what I had done in the prime of my career. and he was, okay, well, I want to be able to do that. And I thought that it was great to have somebody like that, somebody where I saw myself in them a little bit as a younger player emmbrace that and I'm happy whenever I get to see him succeed out there. Do you get to talk to him today at all when they haven't not yet. Yeah. So when you're in New York after being traded there, your free agency is coming up. Obviously there are a couple of other high profile free agents that were coming up. and there were a lot of like rumblings of like, oh, D'A Andre is going to orchestrate all them to come to the Kns. Was that ever really a thing you all go to the Nets, obviously answ that. Yeah, it was a thing for a bit. because you know in my mind, I was like, I'm already here Yeah and then you know they have some pieces and they want to do some great things. And obviously, you know, we ended up going to Brooklyn and that was a great experiment. It was fun. It was fun for me to be able to play with my friends. and those guys on Brooklyn were amazing. and even the young players that they had were great. So I think that it was A cool time to where I got to be able to choose where I was going and kind of stick there for a little bit and play with some guys who I considered my friends. So I thought that that was a fun time. It didn't ultimately like help us win a championship, but it was a great experience and learning cur from me. Well, and also like so many crazy things went wrong Yeah like a global pandemic occurred all the injuries in twenty twenty one, whether there's the foot on the toe on the line shot. like there's a lot of universes in which that actually clicks right with before hardarden and with Harden absolutely. Yeah. It's kind of a team that is Not derided, but like, oh, what if they barely played together, but there's like when it was rolling, it was great. It was a little bit scary. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like to see like three haall of fame offensive juggernauts and playmakers on the floor. I tell people all the time, guys would either get their work in early pre practice or very quickly right after practice because they would play ones So everybody wanted to kind of watch those guys play. and it's like if you're a basketball fan, if you love the game and competition, you want to see these guys play against each other. And that was cool for me to be able to you know step out of a role and start to transition into a new one. So I really enjoyed my time there and playing with those guys. I've talked to Blake Griffin about this. I've talked to Chris Paul about it. I've talked to Dog Rivers about it. I've not talked to you about it, and you're the centerpiece of the story. I need to know your perspective of the famous D Dandre Jordan kidnapping of Dallas Free aggency. Well, yeah, I mean like according to everybody online, like I kidnapped in my own home In your own home. Yeah. So that's great.napping. I don't know what Yeah, yeah, yeah. it was I didn't realize what was going on on social media until post. The all time greatest day of NB. Yeah, I mean everybody was involved, and I thought that that was crazy. and it even came out that Mark was driving around Houston looking for my house or some craziness like that. and I just it's crazy what people will believe and what people will say online So I think I learned a lot about social media at that point. But ultimately, you know I appreciated Dallas from that time. you know I know that there were some horri feelings at a time with that. But at the end of the day, you know I didn't want to leave a certain job and take another job. That's all that. you're a young guy Yeah Faced with a tough decision? Yeah, absolutely. I think at that point it was me seeing all the heartbreaking defeats and injuries and bad luck that we had with the clippers. and I kind of was like, well, hey, maybe this is a time for me to go off and excel as an individual and do these different things. But you know, truly my heart really wasn't in it I love everything that Dallas did. That's why eventually. Yeah, that's why when I got the call that they were interested in a free agency, I'm like, this is a joke. There's no way that this is again Yeahah, I'm like they're gonna reneig on the deal or something's going to happen. But you know, I ended up getting traded in the middle of the season. but I enjoy my time now. I'm a cowboys fan anyway. so like I got to experience that firsthand. so it was It was fun and nice little time in my the weird part of my career. So the thing I don't want to do with you is go rehash all the cllippers things because there were so many things that happened with the cllippers and they've all been rehashed, heartbreaking defeats, all of that. I think this current leg of your career we'll call it has been so much fun to watch You come in as this young guy who, you know wants to prove himself and then you know rises to become an all NBA player and an all star and all this. and then you move around a little bit. very easily your career could have petered out by now. and instead, You become this like beloved, I mean, legitimately beloved mentor teammate. I think it's an awesome story. and I never want people to forget that in game five of the Nuggets heat finals, you got in that game a championship like Like people talk about staying ready. Yeah. N everyone in your role actually everyone that lasts as long as you are and is in your role stays ready enough to play in a championship clinching game in real minutes. Absolutely. When they called your number in that game when Michael Molan called your number, hadad he already told you like, hey we might need you in this game and were you like, yeah, hell yeah, I'm ready. Yeah, I think, you know, going like even now and back then I prepare every game like I'm gonna play. Like I'm going to play thirty minutes. Like that's my pre game routine whether it's my nap How I prepare I'm drenched in layir bline. so I'm going into every game like I'm going to play And you know, during that playoff run, I played against Minnesota, didn't play against the Lakers. And you know, you kind of it kind of changes up a little bit. So anytime you have to be ready and people talk about staying ready but it's That's a real thing. Nicola was in foul trouble Moe looked down at me and he said, D you, let's go. And I didn't think about, oh well, this is the championship. I'm like, this is the opportunity that I've wanted, you know? Whether it's two minutes or twelve minutes, twenty minutes, whatever it is, I'm going to go out there and play as hard as I can and try to make some winning plays. And ultimately I did that. we won a championship and I just kind of embraced that role to whatever it was I wanted to be able to compete and help the team out. So I don't remember what the plus minus was those minutes, but I think it was good Yeah. And I remember doing a podcast on the floor after that game. Brian Winorse and I were both EDSP and we would do one after every game of the finals. And I said like I just want to take a pause for a second and point out Deandre Jordan went from not playing at all to getting thrown into a stressful ls game and like held up. I think that was like super cool. And I think the Tim and Stokes thing Would you ever imagineed winning an award like that and like where does it rank in terms of your career? It was just announced what last week, two Like and your career kind of achievements? Well, I mean, I think it's cool. I think it it's super humbling for one. I feel like I've always been a pretty good teammate. It took people eighteen years to realize it. I'm joking. but it's It's cool because it shows like how Somebody is able to adapt when it comes to different, you know phases of their career. And for me, I think once I got to Denver, I kind of embraced that. I may play some nights, I may play, I may not play. And I was okay with that. As long as I was still able to contribute somehow, whether it's on the floor or off the court And then now I'm you know, pouring back into the next generation like guys did for me. And I think that that is the least I can do is like help the next generation so our game continues to evolve and the players get better and the helps the league continue to get better. Have you made a pick in this series yet? I have not. I'm trying not to. I just I want to I want it to go seven. You wanted to be long? I want to Without picking a team, do you think it will be long Yeah, I do. because I think the sppurs are young, hungry, they have a lot of talent. and obviously they have, you know, the unanimous defensive player the year, but also think that the Kicks have been playing better basketball than anybody in these playoffs. So and they they're super hungry as well. You know, they could have made it to the finals last year if it wasn't for maybe game one of the Etern Commerce Finals. but these guys have been in the playoffs for a while. they feel like it's their time. So I'm excited to see what happens. Craziest game I've ever attended game one of the Etern Commerce last year. Yeah was same You played some crazy games with the cllippers. Yeah. I wasn't at most of them, but that that one will always stand out to me as like. I remember I was at that game. Yeah, was that was a crazy game. All right, lastast thing. we have a score to settle. I'm not sure you realize this. You have blocked me on Twitter. I did For ten years. I did And you never unblocked me. Really? And I think I know why Would you say did you say something bad that about me? I don't even think it was bad. Okay. It's certainly not positive. Okay, but I don't think it was bad. This is ten years ago? tenen years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah, was I was yeah, this was for sure. So I think we need to have a ceremonial not live, but an unblockking. But I think what got back to me and you this is now your That's the problem because whatever it is it wasn't for me. so maybe that's got back to me was He or somebody around him may be mad that you kind of poked fun De Andre's tendency to use my words to steal defensive rebounds from his teammates because there was one there was one in particular wereere you damn near decapitated poor JJ Reddick, who was just right under the ball aboutits. You're like, no, no, I'm the big man. I'm this is my rebound. I'm coming it happen. And I think either you didn't like it or someone didn't like it. So I just I gott to speak my truth. I thought you were a big guy. You were getting your rebounds and I thought you were going to kill JJ Redick in the pursuit of a rebound that he was going to get. And I think I've been blocked ever since and I checked thisorning I'm like, I still can't see Di don't don't do my tweets, but I will say At that point in my career, JJ's little ass needs to get out of the way. Like every at that point in my career, I'm like every rebound that comes off, whether it's offensive, defensive It belongs to me. And I feel like that just kind of like, turned to switch so everything that came off the glass. I guess it's got to be all or nothing, right? You can't modulate that.. And I'm like, hey if I get the reb, I'll give it up to you guys, you guys go score it, but like anything that comes off is mine It might have been that It might have been like if when you play dropback defense any big man that plays dropback defense. if you're not like completely into it or if it's a bad matchup, that can look like you're not doing anything. likeike you're not doing anything. but really you're just executing the scheme. Yeah. And I think also back earlier in my career, I may not have understood that as well, but I think it was the stealing defense of rebounds sting, but you got to get money You you got to get your paycheck but it also rebounds get you pid star in that, you know I became obsessed with it man. So it mean, it turned out okay. You're coming back next year, right? Yeah, that's the plan. That's o. I think it's awesome. I think this whole late career path has been great. and it's great. you're going to be around the finals for a lot of it all of it. someome of it yeah yeah. We'll see. All right. hope I'm with you. My official pick was Nixon seven. I think they can actually do it. I do think I mean, they're here for a reason, rightn't? So? They're underdogs, but I think they can do it. but I'm I just like let's just have a long crazy series. That's all I want. All right, Deandre, Jordan, Thankks for spending time with us. I'll see you at the finals. Unblocked on social media. There you go. You heard it right here All right, that's it for this episode of the Zackalow Show, Not your normal episode. Thanks for sticking with us. Thank you to Jonathan Freeus on site with us today in San Antonio. Thank you to our great local crew who helped set us up today. Thank you to Robert Ori, Deandre Jordan, Tim Legler, Ian Begley, Gary Peayton for their time on an exhausting day for them on podcast Row Thanks to you all for listening to and are watching to Zach Low Show, Game one. of the NBA finals by the time this goes up will be today Bckle up. It should be an awesome series. Thanks everybody twenty one over and P presresident select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or eighteen and over in Presidenton in DC, Kentucky, O Wyoming, gambling probleblem. Call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eighty eight seven hundred eighty nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or isisit MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here Visit gamblinghelpline mA d. org or call eight hundred three two seven fivezo five zero for twenty four seven support in Massachusetts or call one eight seven seven eight Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York for Louisiana, callall one eight seven seven, seven seven zero, seven eight six seven