NBA Lottery Reform and Tanking Incentives

Somehere out there is a Chevy truck First new dries it a Chevy person, you probably no one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet. Tether let's dririve. Visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup Zach Low show It happened. It really happened The New York Knicks demolish the Cleveland Cavaliers again for their eleventh consecutive playoff win Another double digit win Another blowout And for the first time in twenty seven years Since nineteen ninety nine since before Y two K The New York Kicks are in the NBA finals and they are rolling Can they actually pull this off? What is the city like? It's crazy. Who are they going to play? Who should they want to play? doesnesn't even matter Howard Beck is here to reflect on the Nicks quarter century journey to this moment Jail and Brunson, all the highs and lows everything. We'll talk a little bit of Western confference finals. We'll talk Jail and Brown's all NBA stuff Scottty Barnes getting snubbed and a little bit of Western conference finals game five is Maybe the game of the year tonight. I guess every game these two teams place first underunder will be the game of the year until that series is over and the finals begins on june third. a lot of rest for the nexts're healthy. They're deep The other teams are beating the hell out of each other Boy Oh boy is it all lining up for the Nicks And then John Hollinger is here the perfect guy to talk about lottery reform. Yeah, it's on the ballot this week. Is this a good idea Is this a bad idea Let's take a deeper dive than we've taken with a guy who's actually qualified to do it. Some of the pitfalls, some of the benefits All of that is coming up on the Zach Low Show Zach Low show is brought to you by Fanl. The conference finals are here D you know how it to go down, takeake your shot with Fandal and get closer to the action. Fandl is the best place to bet the teams, the players and plers during the NBA post season. Build the same game parleay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip offff. Download the Fandl spportsbook app now and play your game twenty or over in Presidident of select states eighteen or over in DC, Kentucky, Wyoming gambling problem called call one eight hundred gambler. callall one eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccPG dot org slash chat in Connecticut. This isachlow show. Howard Beck is here. Howard. It happened. It really happened. The New York Kicks The beleaguered Hometown team of the greatest city in the world For the first time in twenty seven years have made the NBA finals Since nineteen ninety nine Since before, Y two K. The Kicks are in the NBA finals, the streets of New York. You can disperse the crowds outside Madson Square Garden NYPD, but you can't stop Nicks fans from congregating wherever they want to congregate and raising hell because this is a moment for a beloved team in a city that loves basketball. They destroyed the hapless incompetent and yet analytically sound Cleveland Cavaliers again their eleventh consecutive postseason win. Almost all blowouts, even the overtime win someomehow will blowout. overver time, of course in game one of the conference finals AKA the game that ended the Eastern confference finals effectively And Howard back I said it after the Sixer series with Fred Kats It was clear at that point The Nicks can win the title. This is not the junior varsity conference golf club, whatever. the real finals is happening in the Western confference finals those seams at full health are better than the Nicks That's true. It just is what it is Sometimes the playoffs are not about just better in a vacuum or better over one hundred game sample. The Kicks had proven against Philly, proven against Atlanta and tripled down on proving against Cleveland They can win the title And that's only increased as the sppurs and the Thunder have beaten the hell out of each other. Game five is tonight. It is the game of the year so far in the NBA. everyvery game these two teams play will be the game of the year in the NBA until the finals, I guess. Gellen Williams is hurt. AJ Mitchell is hurt. Dylan Harper looked pretty good in game four, but is dealing was abductor Um, And Darren Fox says the ankle think the Nicks I mean, I said it after Philly. this is a championship caliber team. I Spurs coin toss at that point. I think I said Oklahoma City. I'd give them a punchers chance like twenty five, thirty percent I think it's even higher than that now, even if they'll be underdogs. This team is just that good And Howard Beck, you chronicled the New York Kicks For the illustrious New York Times two thousand four to twenty thirteen I just want to put in perspective How? Incredible And almost out of nowhere This run that started really properly with Jal and Brunson and on and on and I outlined all the incredible team building moves this front office has made onn Saturday night with Michael Pina. I want to outline how improbable it is You can pick your like Nixon competence that it's really stunning They were under five hundred every single season fromr two thousand two to twenty ten nine straight seasons under five hundred in a row And we don't need like all the shit that happened during that time is well chronicled On court, off court, everything Th then they have this like brief Mello slash Lensanity slash Amar slash the Mello Amar Tyson Chandler thing that never really worked. There's a fifty four win season in there that Amar mostly doesn't play. A little blip of good fortune And then from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty Six seasons Here are their win totals in those six seasons seeventeen thirty two thirty one twenty nine seventeen twenty one And there's the Porzinkgus thing in there There's they draft Nila Kina. And Kevin Knox over Bam and SGA waiting maybe on the other side of the bracket. Wh knows Um, there's Derek Fisher fights Matt Barnes at one point. Jeff Horniceet kind of fights Joe Kim Noah at another point Um It almost is like The Nicks during those six years, it was almost worse in some I don't maybe it wasn't worse. They existed like outside the NBA. likeike the real NBA was over here with the calves and the warriors and like all the the raptors in the Celtics were cute in Eastern confference or the rockets are loading up The Kicks were like, A sideid show outside of the real NBA as a relevant as a basketball team as a franchise could get. And here they are in the finals It's it's an incredible turnaround. And they are playing Gorgeous basketball. justust gorgeous high IQ Everything is humming back I just they're here. I can't believe it I can't either. You used the word beleaguered earlier. and it got me thinking like how many different adjectives and synonyms and awful descriptors I must have used over the course of nine years at the New York Times. And several years after that, frankly, when I was still know obviously in New York, but writing about the next periodically for Bleacher repeport and wherever else I was at a given time, but beleaguered, bedraggled, dysfunctional Ineps Dysfunction above all else. and I think When people are elsewhere in the country Um, u either either puzzled over or, you know, taken aback by these scenes of Nicks fans reveling in the streets, even sometimes after a game one of a series. evenven sometimes after game one of a season as they did a couple. I think Bing Bong came out after a Nick Oh victory over the Celtics and literally a game mod of the season. A little over exxuberant at times. A little oververexuberant. Like leave J R. Smith alone, Leave Brian W went horse alone, little is exuberant. I just need people outside of New York to understand. I've been here for twenty two years now, twenty one years. I need people outside of this city to understand the context that Zach just gave and it goes deeper and uglier and just messier than all of that. So if Maybe this is just a New York thing anyway, but it's also this is earned. This is earned through a quarter century essentially of suffering and not just bad teams, not just losing teams, but like you know, at one point in time Larry Brown is the coach, Stefan Marburry is the point guuard and Isaiah Thomas is the team president. and all three of them are in fights with each other. Isaiah has turned on Stefan. Stefan Marbry has turned on Isaiah, Marburry hass turned on Larry Brown, Larry Brown has turned on both Isaiah and And we would just on a daily basis have one person or another of this fight that we were chronicling and they were all talking about it all the time We don't need to go into to chapter and verseif all that, but there were just versions of that. There was, of course, a sexual harassment lawsuit, which they lost whichich David caused David Stern to give one of my favorite David Stern quotes of all time, which because the Garden had decided not to settle that case in advance, David Stern said they were, quote, not a model of intelligent management a phrase that I thought applied to just about everything they did on and off the court for a very, very long time That is not Now, that is not this next team or the way this next team is being run, even though it's still the same owner who does not preside over a model of intelligent management once upon a time, he has largely stepped out of the way since putting Leon Rose in charge. a move that I was skeptical of at the time. And I think reasonably so, but Leon and that crew have done an incredible job. And I think Zach, the thing you mentioned about the Nicks We're sitting here in awe of the results. the scoring margin, the winning streak in the post season the brand of basketball that they play All of it and the thing that you didn't say And that we would normally say about a team. I was looking at, you know, kind of past teams that went through the playoffs with only like two losses and win the championship. Th you know, those kinds of historic runs, you know, obviously I was there for Sag and Cobe going eleven and zero in zo one before losing to Iverson in game one and then rolling the Sers We've seen versions of this. Do you know what they all have in common Like multiple freaking' Hall of Famers. It's Shaq and Kobe. It's Steph and Kie and Clay And Draymond It's Michael and Scottty. It's Isaiah and Dumars and Lambir and Rodman. Like when you look over the list of the teams that have had runs like this, They're fucking stacked And this next team Jen Brunson' iss an all timer, makeake no mistake. and peoples conversations has been going on for a while now about whether he might already be or where he ranks among the greatest Nicks or whether he's in contention for greatest Nick. He's certainly greatest Nick of this century But this is not a stacked haall of Fame team, right? Carl Anthony Towns, really good player. Jalen Brunson, awesome They're just perfectly calibrated. They remind me in some respects of what we saw with like when the nuggets won the championship, right? Yokich an all time great. Jamal Muray, very, very good And then you know, Aron Gordon, Michael Porter, Junir. just like good players that complimented each other well. Payed for each other, played selflessly That's what I see in this N team right now is just this kind of everybody's in sync, everyverybody knows their role there's no the very few moments where where you see like Anything glaring, something looks a little bit selfish or a little self indulgent or just just a dumb play. likeike they're just, they play very smart. efficient consonsistent basketball And it it's a joy to watch. And they' and like I say, they're doing it in a much different way. This is not they may go down as an all time team record wise, especially if they win the championship But they don't project as that when you look at the names on the sheet. I mean They're going to have two of these guys are making the Hall of fame. Like Ruston and toowns are on make do all fame, but towns will be like a teier or whatever And it's a refverennce thing, right?ike some of the names I mentioned Th are these are names that inspire absolute reverence. And Carlthony Towns has always been like, the stats are there, the success is there, but he puzzles people. He he he's, you know, he's not embraced or revered in that in that same They have stacked the team. It it's it's hallmark is depth and size on the wing around Brunson and around towns and everybody they play is good They have this Mitchell Robinson look that they really didn't even have to use that much. I mean the cabs kind of hacked him out of the series and the cabs also fell for the bait of the hack of mitch like oh, we' one fell away from the boness put Mitchell Robinson on the floor. He'll get hacked and' take them right off the floor. I couldn't believe they fell for that multiple times All the shamit has change their team and giving them a legit reliable five out kind of lineup they can go to and I what was he twelve of thirteen on threerees in the conference finals just absolutely. I mean, at some point This level of shooting is going to fall off a little bit and they're going to have to win in other ways. and by the way, they are fully capable of that because you don't win games by thirty points just because you're shooting well, you do everything well Um But you like You just know it when you see it And this team had glitches in January in March where the rhythm that they have found now escape them. And they would talk about it and they have talked about it even in the wake of putning this cav series of Building habits and those habits would fall away. and Mike Brown used the word sacrifice multiple times after the game last night. Maybe guys weren't sacrificing as much as they should And they got to the playoffs and they they faced adversity And they had two options. Number one was meltdown in fight, everyone try to win it by themselves and option two is what they've taken, which is, hey, we felt this rhythm before We know how to get there We have a lot of selfless guys who can move the ball, move themselves, cut and move and they have been putting teams in the blender everver since then And to your point about If you see a nick player take what looks like a self indulgent shot It's now like a unicorn occurrence in these games. likeike Anonobbe had a couple of jumpers in recent games or he just early in the shot clock and a size of and She's gigantic and he's on fire And he rose up and launched like a twenty foot earlier in the shot clock, madeade most of them because again, he's on a heater. And they stood out as was like, ooh, the Nicks aren't taking a lot of shots like that. It's the perfect ecosystem right now There's an understanding that everything starts and often ends with Brunson. And everyone around that fills in the gaps in the appropriate way. Everyone is shooting when they should shoot Everyone is passing when they should pass The hierarchy is clear and everyone is just buying all the like Josh Hart, your job push the pace get and like every time Every fast break they had in the first half. as Cleveland's transition defense just laughably bad for I don't know. They've been that way in half the games in this postseason, especially so against the Nicks It was Josh Hart being like, this is my job to do this. Everyone is just filling the gaps. It's beautiful Beautiful basketball They're deep They're talented. Kat has never played this well defensively They can win. they can win the whole thing. It was clear to me after the Philly series that this is not just a sort of cute easastern conference story This is a team that can win the championship Um, and it's just been And they they exploit And the hallmark of why this team is in rhythm and well coached too. and Mike Brown deserves a lot of credit. Mike Brown, by the way, fired by the Sacramento Kings. the kings fired ground There was a time Zach where had I was doing periodically the math on most coaches and GMs or president, however a team is structured over a course of time and the Kings and Kicks were basically neck and neck for a long time during the, you know, whatever the two thousand four through twenty fifteen or whatever it was. And at some point, of course, the Kicks have settled into extreme competency, while the kings while flirting with competency for about five minutes then veered straight into more incompetency, including the incredibly stupid decision to fire Mike Brown. But yes, props to Mike Brown and very a great guy. we both know him well, like happppy to see him get get his due and as he will be for the next couple of weeks over the course of the finals. Well and what I was going to say is a credit to the players and the team Every weakness that emerges for them to exploit is exploited immediately on offense. Every time there's a substitution prevents either a weak defender presents a weak defender or a new wrinkle and how the calves are going to match up or whatever. There's no wasted possession. It's immediately like, okay, now the understanding is they're going to guard this play like this, which opens up this for us They're just on it and F from the jump, No wasted time, no wasted possessions. And here they are and theyre awaiting them is either the thunder or the sppurs who they beat in the NBA Cup finals. rememember the NBA Cup I we still Howard We still haven't had a team win the NBA cup and the NBA title of the same year. The Nicks might as well make that history to the Thunder failed at it last year. We might look at that historic double Um, and like the Nicks feel internally like, you know, look, Weemby is an alien No one really has an answer for him consistently You know, Sam Amy wrote the story about Weenby. I think it was after game I don't remember, game one or game for one of the games in the conference finals about how Everyone is watching this series and particularly watching a game like Game onene and thinking Boy we have to find someone who can slow this dude down. And then like what's the archetype of that defender does't even exist. And an anonymous person in that story by Sam sort of outline like what you really need is a six eight, six, nine wing who's both very quick and incredibly strong And I I mean, I haven't talked to the Ns people since that story. I haven't been to a Nicks game since that story If I can guarantee you, if people in the front office and the coaching staff saw that story, They would have looked at each other and said, Well it sounds a lot like OGN and Oi and not that he's going to guard Wemby the entire series. they'll do lots of different things, but They have they feel like they walk into both of these series with a real chance and some real advantages. And that's what the playoffs is about. likeike yeah, in a two hundred game sample size The Spurs and the Thunder are going to win more games than the Nicks. They're going to put up a better point differential Withstanding what the fuck just happened at these two confference playoffs A matchup is a matchup. The pacers almost beat the thunder last year The sppurs the Nicks rather are a very kind of unusual team. Brunson is an unusual superstar. Kat at the five is an unusual look. Its they're difficult to guard. their're difficult to play against Um And I think they have a real shot and this is just An awesome story of all these players coming together in trades of all different Iilks, right? You have the McKill Bridges is like, that's the mega trade. The Anadobbe trade is like a talent trade. The Josh Hart is a, we believe in this guy. Let's go get him trade and it all the cat trade is a ceiling raising risk that has paid off It's just a masterclass of building a roster that has clicked at the right moment and there was no guarantee it was going to click at the right moment and it has and u Boy did they just destroy the cavves. But what what a half decade run for the Kicks inccredible. And there's just a lot of really important key decisions made along the way there Sveral of which in real time Had either pundits like us maybe going, huh, not sure or Nicks fans themselves wincing a bit, right? Like the play for Carl Anthony Towns was not guaranteed to work out. And Julius Randall certainly was a roller coaster ride for Nicks fans too and for every fans of every team he's been on. But there was some risk, especially giving up him and Div Vincenzo in that deal and taking on Towns who had his own kind of up and down history. Josh Hart had been discarded by like three teams by the time they got him. and he' is the absolute perfect byy the way, Stupid teams, stupid teams Stupid I mean, the Lakers discarded turned to get Damon. So like let's let's Yeah we could we could forgive that one, but the Pelicans giving up on him, the Blazers giving up on him. And Look another one where Nicks fans, as recently as a week ago, I have a good friend who texts me sometimes in the middle of games. And I it was when you and I were at game one, I think, I think it was during game one, where he was texting me going like, My friend's got to get Josh Hart out of there because the way he had started and they weren't guarding him and everything else. And then of course, Josh Hart caught fired and I texted him back like I think you owe Josh an apology Um, just the consummate glue guy, consummate like just spiritual leader type, like everything if you like you could say that Brunntson in in u exemplifies everything that there is to know about the Kicks, but I think Josh Hart on a less talented level, sheer talent level is just as important to the ethos of who the Kicks are. L. I love Josh Hart He was on my Marcusl all stars this year. After that game one, I said on this podcast with Jason Tim, less minutes for Josh Hart is almost never the answer. He always responds to these like, Oh, they got to cut his minutes. he can't shoot games with like massive games and he's been massive since then Every team that wins a title or chases a title needs a Josh Hart. and that's like you it's It's a generic thing to say that about any role player, but Josh Hart in particular is the kind of role player that is Fun to play with And I think you need that ingredient on a great team. Everybody likes playing with a guy who is selfless pushes the pace Do all the dirty work, gang rebounding defends whoever you're asking to defend and is just constantly operating from a perspective of How can I make the game faster? more fun and easier for my teammates. Everybody loves to play with a guy like that. And that's what Josh Hart is and One first round pick and Cam Radish Boom. this guy iss going to be a nick her life, maybe and a nick leegend the way things are going, especially if they win a championship. they all become legends instantaneously. But you know, when's the last time we heard anybody complaining about all the picks giing up for Michael Bridges, P a few weeks ago if or probably when he was looking like he was about to get yanked out of the startorying lineu during the Atlanta series whichich like years ago Bown Mike Brown was never going to do that. No and I said at the time, you shouldn't do that. You can't disrupt this starting five at this time This starting five has kind of a checkered history. Remember in the playoffs last year by the numbers kind of m. I've always liked it and they've been rewarded for sticking by it, but like it was Mike Brown, whatever he did, what he did was right and whatever he said behind the scenes was right and They stuck by Michael Bridges and he's playing the best he's played since he was in Brooklyn. And again, that was a controversial deal for the Nixs in part because McKill Bidges as a third or fourth wheel in Phoenix, Really good young player. McKill Bridges as Misscast you know, number one option in Brooklyn, not so great. And then by the time the Kicks get him, it's like, well, you know what What player do we have? And we just give up a shit ton of draft capital to get him at the peak of draft capital trades from you know, which we may never see again. And so the investment was really big and the outcome and the fit were unclear. And then of course, he clashed with Tibbs Last year, he was outspoken about it. about minutes, about roll, about all kinds of stuff. So he starts to come off as maybe a little bit of a malcontent Um And yet here we are. everything seems to fit Perfectly. And that's how things go, right? Like it's, you know, you know, what is about the whole, you know, winning covers up everything. But it's its it's a chicken and egg thing. Maybe they all just got on the same page and then the winning was produced or maybe the winning started and then everybody else calmed down or whatever. but everybody seems Perfectly fitting, perfectly happy with their roles. These guys I mean, like You never get any sense. there's any tension out there. Like, yeah, gu the teams make mistakes, everything. guys's got em barking at each other occasionally all that stuff, But like This looks like a really fun group. And I think that's been the other hallmark the last few years, even when they've fallen short in the playoffs This is a really easy team to embrace. evenven if you weren't a NX fan because of how hard they play. their relentlessness. they have bodies just dropping like flies a couple years ago and they just keep winning and winning anyway and extending that series against Indiana two years ago. likeike they've earned this. They've they've earned this. It's it's a really inccredible evvolution and kind of rebirth for this franchise after everything they've gone through twenty seven years just seems insane between NBA finals And Even that, right? likeike that was the ninety nine finals. That was the lockout season. So, you know, Phil J Jackson putting the big fed asterisk on that one. They were in eight seed And H see that made the finals. So it was also the improbability of it all I don't think as even though in between He's a champion legend for the Ns. I don't know that Phil Jackson is a name that any Nicks fans want to hear on today's on today's episode of P. Probably not. Strike it from the record. But you mention you mentioned tension And there the reality is there has been tension. this season, there were multiple like talks about having to sacrifice the most because of the new offense. At the end of last season, Fred Katz and James Edwards in the athletic wrote a sort of now they tell us story story about you know players wondering kind of if Kat takes defense seriously enough, if he sticks to the scheme enough and owns it hard enough when he doesn't. and all of that has vanished. Kat has stuck to the scheme defensively T I thought one of the fun little subtleties of this Cleveland romp was The way the Kicks toggled the bigig man matchups with Kat mostly guarding Mobbley, but sometimes guarding Allen when the cats had both the bigigs on the floor and An and Obe guarding Allen for the most part, but sometimes guarding Mobli and they would switch within possessions like their big to big rotations were just on point in a way that was like, have they been doing this all season? It was really tremendous to watch Um So there have been moments pention. L all it all starts with Brunson and signigning Brunson away from the Mavericks on a deal that a lot of people pan I did not. I said I think I described it as I think it's fine. I think it's like a BB plus. Obviously even that was like wildly pessimistic on what it's become since then he has signed another below market extension with the N but everything starts with him. And he got so great so fast Team G so good so fast that it changed everything about the way they built the team and that coalesced the Brides trade. I was rereading what I wrote about the Bridges trade at the time And it was after that Indiana series that you mentioned two seasons ago that they stretched out despite half the team going down with injuries, you know, we don't even need to go through the list And then they overpay for bridges. It's still an overpay. It doesn't even matter if it's an overpay. And I wrote at the time like, lookook, the bottom line is I thought that year the Nicks in twenty twenty four with Randall pre cat pre brridges pre all this We're the second best team in the East, the biggest threat to Auston in the East and then the injuries just decimated them And when you get that good, that fast, You make decisions like you don't, there's no point in waiting anymore. There's no point in waiting for this honest pipe dream that's wasasn't coming then. There's no point in trying to get you allM beat There's already a big injury risk and not available. He made them so good. so fast that it had to change everything about how they accelerated And here they are. And look We have plenty of time to talk about the next. I have a question for you. Are you aware of have you become aware WWE wrestler slash personality named Dan. No, I have not So you did not see that Dan Hausen has cursed the Cavaliers on national TV and more and uncursed the Kicks Hm I did not realize this person existed nor that he had this immense power that you to do it I went down a rabbit hole of Danhausen. He did his on ESPN. He's a big star I don't and I went down a rabbit hole because I was so fascinated. He looks like a little man compared to like regular wrestlers. He looks like a normal dude, skinny whatever The best way I can can describe him how to you is a again, he looks like a regular person except he's sort of like an avant garde Goul Dracula with face paint on. Okay and a funny voice And I was like, I don't even understand how this guy's a wrestler. Let me go on YouTube and figure this out. And like ninety minutes passed And I was fascinated because he's like an avant Garde comedy act. He's presented as like inept and weird And u has this belief in himself that he can curse people. And it's objectively insane. But the people he curses Eventually bad things start happening to almost randomly And so he's become a star. He must weigh one hundred and eighty pounds and he's become a star. And I Googled him and since he uncursed the Nicks They have not lost the game And so he's being credited with this. Now I will also say this, Howard Beck I'm just I'm just going to put it out into there. since The episode of your friends and neighbors aired with OGN and Obie and I cameoing. the Kicks are undefeated. So I don't know if I belong in the conversation with Dan Hausen, but these things are happening. This supernatural things are occurring. This keeps up. They're going to have to bump you up to a West Chester eight. mayaybe a seven and a half. We'll see. We'll see You said he he looked inept and weird as a wrestler. I mean that would have described the Knicks for a long time and now describes the Cleveland Cavaliers perfectly. they're inept and weird I can't recommend a ninety minute Danhausen. I almost wrestling again because he's so I can't believe this thing exists. All right, let's take a break and talk quickly about the other end. of the Eastern Conference Fals The Zach Le show is brought to you by Fanle. The NBA playoffs are here and everything's on the line. Every possession matters, every bucket swings the game and tonight is your shot to boost your bet. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight. 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Okay The Cleveland Cavaliers All right There's just so much material here, Howard that I don't even know where to start Would you like to start with James Harden going Two of eight in an elimination game and a combined thirty nine points on seven of twenty seven shooting in three elimination games. twowo wins, albeit. for the cabs this year Would you like to start there Would you like to start with Kenny Atkinson Uuttering a quote that will follow him to the grave and deservedly so for the rest of his life about how the cavaliers were actually analytically up T to one. in the series against the Nicks when they were down three zero and losing every game by the way, by double digit points And I would like to congratulate the Cavaliers because I looked up the shock quality data on Scond Spectrum GenusIQ today The Cavaliers expected effective field goal percentage based on who was shooting. specific identity of the shooters in from where they were shooting and how close the defenders are and all the fancy nerd stuff was fifty five point four one percent for this series The Nicks Same stat was fifty four point eight for the series. So the cast by zero point seven percentage points won the shot quality banner They also won zero games in the series So I would advise against raaising a banner for the twenty twenty six shot quality championship, That's just me and Uh, I just you can't say that. Look, I understand he was probably trying to imbue his team confidence, right? Like we've actually done things well Let's keep doing what we're doing and maybe the shots will fall Um Just say that then. Don't say we've analytically analytically were're actually up to one. That's how it came off U It's going to follow him around forever And here's the other thing. you can't hang your hat on process. When you blow a twenty point lead halfway through the fourth quarter of game one The series ended That was it. That was the whole series. And I don't care what happens after that You can't hang your hat on any process when your' process involved blowing that lead It also elighted the fact that There are so many other things besides shot quality. determine who wins and loses a basketball game For instance The Cavaliers were fifteenth out of sixteen playoff teams in turnover rate in the playoffs and their turnover rate was even worse in the easastern confference finals And they're The number of just straight up Dumb ass turnovers. was astounding for a team that wanted us to take them seriously How many inbounds and outlet passes did they throw directly to the other team In this series alone How many times did players catch the ball out of bounds? How many times the players just dropp the ball? out of bounds How about your transition defense? If you want to hang your hat on shot quality and well, you know, whatever, there's so many other ways to shrink the other margins of the game. So that shot quality really could be the deciding factor How about your transition defense Last night, I understand threez. you probably have a little bit of lack of self belief that you can do it Their transition defense last night was absolutely embarrassing for a team that again, wanted us to take them seriously. And it was embarrassing for parts of the entire playoffs. Clean that up before you talk to me about shock quality Bigger picture, Howard This is the ultimate glass half full glass half empty argument Glass half full, which is what Kenny Akinson tried to pour last night. We finally made the conference finals. We got over the hump Let's just stand pat. keepe it going. keepe me, Please keep me, keepe me. keepep Donovan. Donovan says he wants stay. He's extension eligible Keep mobly K Harden. He has a player option. I would suspect that they have worked out some sort of agreement where he opts out of that for a lesser amount and resigns a two year sixty million dollars deal, something like that Keep everyone together. We're headed in the right direction. We got over the hump It's the Eastern confonerence like It's not like there's some spurs thunder powerhouse standing in our way Keep Jared Allen, like keep the whole infrastructure glass half empty Yeah, they made the conference finals Their collective record for the playoffs is eight and ten I'm not I'm just not that impressed with what they like to go seven against Toronto who was missing quickly the entire series and the cabs will sit here and tell you, Well, that made them actually harder to play against. We didn't have a defensive liability to pick on. Well you have to have oth ends of the floor singing. to win and quickly was a big loss at Ingram was out half the serious Detroit barely beat Orlando and Cleveland barely beat Detroit Eight and ten. I'm just not that impressed. And but I also don't know what else to. I don't know what the right answer, but I'm just I'm not buying like, well, because we made it to the conference finals We are clearly progressing as a team and we have another year presumably to learn about how to play with James Harden And I'm not like their assis rate collapsed. They were last in the playoffs and assist rate Their offenses didn't look smooth. Mitchell and Moby for the playoffs, that two some together was minus sixty eight for the entire playoffs So they're doing this thing where it's like Mitchell Mobbleli, Harden Allen, those are the pairings. and it just seems like Two fundamental things are true about the cals as they make decisions about how to go forward. Like leave aside the half full glass, half empty glass. These things are true. Number one, In a lot of ways, there's still the same roster. that they felt uncertain about when they had Darus Scarlet, which is we have twoo undersized guards and two big guys whose fit is unclear Well, the guards aren't underersides anymore, but let's just say two defensively challenged guards and two bigs whose fit to us is unclear And in the middle is this giant vacant hole where the Kicks have three giant wings that are really good two way players and we have none No giant wings that are really good two way players. Struce is the closest one. They finally started Struce. It was too little T late And Fundamental truth number two is related to that It feels like They have to pick a lane sometimes like do you believe in Allen and Moby together? or do you not believe in Allen and Moby together And should you just pick one and have Moby be your starting center? And yet when they play that way, they're so small around him that when he has to defend the pick and roll up high on the floor and they get the ball behind them. There's just absolutely no resistance because they're tiny when they play with one big And so for as much as they've changed and as far as they've gotten It still feels like they're stuck in the same problem. sameame fundamental problem and not really like that much better. I'm just not That impressed with their playoff run. and yet I don't know I'm not sure that the answer still isn't. Let's just stand pat and not do anything crazy because I don't know what their alternatives are I mean this era And I mean, you know, the era of once they acquired Donovan Mitchell pair him with Darius Garland Tear down and Evan Moby, that quartet before they broke it up with the Garlland Harden deal. There had always been some doubts around the league. I'm sure you and I both heard a lot of this along the way. Just yes, your back court is undersized and defensively challenged. That's going to potentially put a ceiling on how far you can go with that. and how's the fit going to be overall And you know, over the course of a couple of years, I think It got better in terms of just their offensive distribution and responsibilities. and then the two bigs. thenen on top of that, that was the playing layer. Then there was the salary cap layer, which was Can you afford to keep all these guys in perpetuity because of what it was going to do to your cap, your tax, second apron, all that And they've come up against that too And I guess to their credit you know, they stuck with it because they they truly believed. this is we'll pay the tax. We'll go into the second apron We believe in this this grouping and we're going to write it as far as we can. And as far as we can meant ending three months ago whenever it was When they out of the blue flipped garland for Harden, a deal that I don't think anybody saw coming until the day it actually happened. Um As recently as right before this series when I was talking to some cabs people, they were very, very happy with the swap of Garland for Harden. They felt very confident in the wisdom of that move and what Harden had brought them. They felt it was everything they needed. And yet here we are. talalking once again At the end of another hardened team collapse and how bad he was at key moments and in key games and elimination games Dude it ain't beatating the allegations. I don't want to hear any more of the hardarden apologists out there saying we've all just been mean to him and we've misread. let's just read let's just read his numbers in full while we do the the hardarden autopsy First of all, he's thirty six years old And so to expect him to score twenty five a game. Yeah on efffficient shooting. you can't def and defend Jail and Brunson over and over down the stretch of games is not realistic anymore. And I want to qualify my own criticism by just saying this. And I said this to some cast people not long ago. This is the one time when I think Wh Harden is certainly as responsible as anybody for what we just saw, This is not his responsibility this team. att this stage of his career. this is more D of a Mitch and everybody else. this is a collective is a collective Yes, structural, yes, failure in this series, not for the season. Yes. All right Harden for the series for the playoffs, rather Tina game Five rebounds, five and a half assist. That ass cist number combined with Donv Mitell averaging three assists for the playoffs is a red alert number that something was not working with the offense. but nineteen five and five forty one percent shooting, thirty percent on threes fifty two percent on Tues and I mentioned in the three elimination games thirty nine combined points on seven of twenty seven shooting and was just sort of quietly carried across the finish line in game seven against the pistons that they won by a lot. And so no one really talked about like another H and Dud. Now Game three and game five against the pistons monster clutch moments across the board and you have to give him credit for that Evan Mbley in the playoffs Again, a lightning rod player, right U seventeen points a game eightight rebounds four assists, fifty three percent shooting pretty good thirty four percent on threes. sixty three percent on Tues Pretty good I thought we'd be getting more than seventeen a game out of Evan Mobbleli and I thought like we had probably progressed by the point where D Smc Ride is stripping him one on one in the post in an elimination game, but we spoke pretty good stillill leave me a low cold. And I want to give the credit to the Kicks for one thing thirty four percent on Thes Evan Mobli. They never made the mistake that a lot of teams make, which is they just were' not going to overreact to Evan Mobli shooting semi open thes. They're not going to compromise their defense anywhere else for the most part. and I thought that was smart And Donovan Mitchell I'll read you his playoff sets twenty six a game. okay Five rebounds, three assists I mentioned, three assists to two point six turnovers not great forty five percent shooting, thirty three percent on threes, fifty four percent on two'os sounds good. It didn't feel goodood There was just something synergistically off with the Cats in this series in particular And now they so like again, I don't even know what the answer is, right? They clearly need a wing. They've been searching for this wing since they cycle through Caris Lavert, the Andrey Hunter, Kean Ellis, Max Strus, Dean Wade And you saw the difference between Strus and Wade in the series is like When Dean Wade was in the game, find defensive player doesn't make enough shots. like find like he's always been an analytic starling The Nicks could put Brunson on him and just not worry about it at all. Like when youuntrunson with Dean Wade as the screener Brontnton's going to double and recover and Dean Wade' going to roll around wherever he rolls around and the Kicks just aren't going to care When Strs is in that position, the Nicks all of a sudden care. The Kicks have to recover quickly. They have to rotate a third guy to Max Strus. they have to switch sometimes because they're scared of a shooting Dean Wade was not the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but here's the thing Mobly Well, I be like, here are the decisions, right? Donvan Mitchell's eligible for a max max thirty five percent max extension that would kick in the year after this year and says he wants to stay I talk about picking picking Elane. You sign him to that extension That's the lane That's your lane now Your other land is and Bill pitched this like should you just get out of this business altogether and start over and trade Donan Mitchell for future assets. Based on Dan Gilbert's tweet after the game last night, I don't see that happening The other decision is Mobly Um I don't really see a reason to trade mobly or a good mobly trade. The mobly for Yonest thing is certainly an interesting trade. The other thing people have to understand about these fake mobly trades and the same thing applies to the Thunder. We'll talk about that The calves are going to be over the second apron or right around the second apron. If they're over the second apron, they can'tgregate salaries. And if they can't aggregate salaries, trading mobly from Yanis requires like a third team, a four team, lots of different stuff happening I don't know, would you would you contemplate that For Yana specifically or a mobly trade in general I don't know what the other Moli trade is. So foranna specifically. Yeah I don't, I don't know if there's another version of it where you're getting Jalen Brown instead or like you, I'm starting to cycle through like all the other A again secondotent He he makes twenty million dollars more than Evan Moli does. It's really hard. It's just really hard. I think I would be very hesitant at this stage to give up on the possibility of Evan Mobbley because we see those flashes. like, you know, at the time he was drafted, people couldn't wait to compare him to Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett or a combination thereof or whatever. he was going to be, you know, this this do everything big who was perfect for the modern game and could guard every position and shoot from everywhere and all that. And we haven't quite seen that come together, but You know That's one of the hardest decisions, I think for teams to make, especially when it's your own guy and there's they're still early in their career. at what point do you conclude that this is as as as evolved as you're going to get as a player, he still twenty four. It'll be twenty five in a few weeks Um, notot even in his prime yet I would be very hesitant On the other hand If you were getting honest The problem with all the honest discussions is this, how confident is any team that's acquiring him that they're going to somehow unlock something health wise that the bucks did not? That's a question I think every franchise is asking themselves because at topop the we have to know that he's going to resign here and then we have to pay him the giant contract Yes inextricably tied to his aging and health issues. But if you sa it Listen, we have the greatest medical staff that's ever been assembled in the history of humankind. We're going to keep him healthy through a full season I think you would bank on one full season at minimum of a healthy Jonis Combined with Donvan Mitchell And Jared Allen and James Harden, presuming they're all there and LeBron on a minimum, let's say. and say, you know what? we're just all in. And whatever it costs us to keep him, if he wants to stay, Jonis, cool, great, fine But' we're going to be all in because Donovan Mitchell's far enough into his prime and we've got a window here and we're not giving up on him and You know, we'll take our chances. We'll take our chances and extend And if it means that we're getting killed on the back end of a Janist contract when it's no longer possible for our greatest medical team in the history of humankind to keep them on the court, fine. we'll pay the price then. But in the meantime, if it gives us a chance to get through the Nicks or the still rising pistons or the reconstituted Celtics or whoever it may be. How about the pacers who are the pacers exist still booming So The Kicks are really in a lot of ways the and there are other teams like the Kicks. The best argument for not blowing it up is that you know, if you're patient and you keep plugging away and you make some moves here and there You can break through eventually. and I don't see them doing anything dramatic like trading Donovan Mitchell for future assets. They just don't seem like a team That is the appetite for that. Now his contract Bobby Mark has the numers today, it's going to be gant, like all these ones is You just have to look in the mirror and ask yourself like, okay when he's thirty three, we're going to be paying him. this percentage of the salary cap, Is he good enough to justify that The answer for almost every player in the NBA other than like the top five guys is It's like some kind of noise like that, but you kind of just do it Um you know I like how you just threw Lebron at a minimum was just throwown in at the end there. Why not? But you do have to think about like this mobly for Janas fantasy land trade you know, would be a lot more palatable to me if I were the cats had I not already traded up in age ten years by flipping Garland for hardarden. Like if I flip mobly for Yonis I've just gone from like a young, funky, interesting team to like, holy shit. we got old fast Not only that Parden plus Yanis plus Jared Allen is just a funky group like the talent is there, but the fit on offense is just. So Harden's going to dribble all the time. What's Yonest doing? Jared Allen has no range to his game. How does he fit with Yonest? There's like a lot of questions to answer there Um I'm glad you mentioned Jal and Brown because There's something Interesting a little interesting about moli for Jelen Brown is the trade construction. Now who throws in what to make that happen and the apron issues and all that You know I find myself looking at the standings and thinking like what really good wings couldould the cabs get And it's hard because Trait Murphy the third Michael Porter Juni. L you're not trading Evan Mobbleli for those guys. And I'm not sure their teams are going to be like hungry enough to take Jared Allen for those guys, even if you throw in the one pick that the cats can trade the one first round pick I tried to get Kawai. Like is there a Jared Allen for Kawai kind of construction plus one first round pick going to the cllippers. But again, the second apron looms because Jared Allen makes so much less than Kawai. Um It's it's a tough nut to crack And they obviously have to figure out the finances like Dean Wade's a free agent. Is he just a c casualty? mayaybe. But I don't know the right answer And the right answer just may be there isn't a better choice other than kind of mostly standing pets That may well be the case. And I also think this is one of those cases where given a choice between Staying the course and trying to augment as you go and bank on some internal improvement and whatever, better chemistry. and who knows? If it's that versus like a whether it's a tear down or just a semi tear down a blow it up, trade Donovan Mitchell for assets and all that stuff I just don't see that as being necessary right now, right? This is not a case where like I wrote about this. it'll be up on the ringer today, but like if you're in the West It would be understandable if you have a certain amount of despair if you're not the spurs in Thunder. Like how are we breaking through this gauntlet anytime in the next five years and maybe longer? The East is not that way, right? All due respect to the nexts who're on historic terror right now This is not Webenyama and Castle and Harper or Shay Chet Jaylen and a gazillion other players with all this depth. you're not trying to get through the LeBron Wade Heedles or the warriors of Steph Clay, Draymond and Kie If you're the Cavaliers you have at least a little reason to believe that with a tweak, you know, tweaks here and there or maybe some, you know, one big swing, but not a tear down swing trying to improve. will'll still be there with the Nicks and the Celtics and the pistons and the magic maybe and the haawks and whatever the East is a mishmash, right? We are It's funny. because if you go back to October We all thought this was a two team race or maybe you know, most of us did. I thought it was going to be between the Kicks and the cabavs October Anyway, in the end. And it was at the end. Yay, I was right, except I was wrong for like five months in between when we all got you know caught up in the wave of, oh my Godd, look at the pistons. Oh my god, lookook at the Celtics overachchieving without Jason Tatum., Now Tatum is back. I think they're the finals favorites. I thought they were But I think it just goes to show that like there was just a lot of volatility and these teams, as I wrote after the first round the parity the era of parity we're in is not just applying to the finals and the champion each year and having a different champion and different finals entrance every year It's that just isn't a massive gap between these teams. We are not in a super team era for the most part, all due respect again to the Thunder and sppurs, but like Especially in the east. I just The Ns what they're doing right now makes it look like the gap is massive If you had asked about what the gap was between all these teams in March or April or February I don't think we would have thought it was that huge And so if you're the calves I think you just try to stay in that race Much like last year's conference finals, although more embarrassingly so for the cabs than it was for the Kicks I would love to just see the alternate reality of how the series unfolds if the cabs win game one because I just think You can't absorb a loss like that, particularly when you're the underdog. there's just there was just no coming back. from that game Um, I dont We'll see what they do. These are very tough decisions. likeike the Mitchell extension is as easy and clean as it looks is like, Ohh we're Cleveland we traded it Hun to get Don of and Mitchell like Lowerry Market and has become a top twenty five player in the NBA And he was just sort of not even the headliner in that trade The picks were Um So there's not a sunk sunk cause is too pessimistic a term, but like there They're going to be very motivated to bring Don of a Mitchell back All these decisions are hard. I just don't know I haven't been I have not found great alternative like Mga decision for the cats. likeike I haven't even found like a great Jared Allen trade for them let alone a Moy trade. Okay, let's leave the cats behind U they as they prepare the shock quality banner for the rocket mortgage arena, Rcket arerena, whatever the hell it's called No Um I think this is Rocket Arena now, which that was like that's a good edit That's a good at it. It sounds cooler. No one The word mortgage does not sound cool or interesting You know what it doesn't sound cool? The diff still doesn't sound cool. No It does not. And your Mgatron does not sound cool retetire both of those. Oh Cabs game ops, man. run through some NBA news stories, including Game five of the West Finals Jailen Brown. didid you see Jayen Brown's reaction to not making first team all NBA on his Twitch stream? whichich again, I want to come on the Twitch. likeike I'm just throwing myself out there as a guest. I'm available. I just want to be one of the people who stands in the background aimlessly Me and GRD hashtag Green rununs deep, like I'll go on Did you see his reaction to this Um, did I did not see it the actual time. Yeah, yeah, I know that he in real time reacted first acting very aggrieved. And then when the second team came out, I guess it was happening in real time and he was like, oh And then suddenly he was very, you know, semi magnetyimous Yeah, I'm not the most liked fan or media. Sometimes I use my platform a little controversial. so I'm surprised I'm on any team, let alone first or second. I'm grateful, blah blah blah U You know, look No, there was no conspiracy Um, The five guys who made the first team just had better seasons than Jayalen Brown. Sorry. like at the moment that Kate and Luca were ruled eligible and maybe that's the conspiracy he's hinting at. Jalen Brown became a second team OlyMBA player. And by the way, he received the most votes by far of everyone on the second team and almost made firstirst team. There's just no I mean, like you can make the case based on wins and he played I have all the stats up here right now. He played seventy one games, which I think is the most of it is the most of the sort of general group of guys who would have been including Lua and Kate who played sixty four each I There's just no argument frame over Lua Orcade. I don't think. I mean, I'm so sorry. I don't really have a hot take on that one. Second to W the BA is an awesome honor. Like there's no There was no The content of Jalen Brown's media interviews in Twitch stream did not infect the all NBA voting? Well, a couple things there. One is that yes, Jalen Brown has taken some hits over the last couple of weeks and a lot of criticism from the media because of all the things on the Twitch stream. U That has nothing to do with the vote for all NBA because that happened weeks and weeks ago before the Celtics had lost before Jayalen Brown had talked about this being his most enjoyable season, all that stuff. So if he's saying that it's past things that he said that somehow has the media, you know, has it in for, I don't even know. I think this was his highest ever finish allMBA wise, right? He had a third team before, if I'm remembering correctly So I know. I know this is set up right now, Howard. I' have two H some other things his tone changed very quickly from aggrieved and there's a conspiracy against me to Oh, I made second team and the universe is wonderful and everything is great. And at that point he's not saying, Gee, thank you Media for actually recognizing what a great season I had. It's still the aggrieved aspect of not being first. I was just It was strange. made second team all O NBA in twenty twenty three. So twice. In general, Yeah with very few exceptions I think Fox Molder would be one Um If you think there's a conspiracy against you, you're wrong. There's not a conspiracy against you, just in general. just this is a general General rule of thumb. I'm glad you mentioned this Can I just a quick tangent in this exact zone though, of conspiracies Fake conspiracies, things that do not happen, have not happened are not happening. A a couple of weeks ago and it's going to be about aliens. It is not going be about Victor Webinyama. It is about Luka Donchitich And the fact that when he did not finish higher in the MVP race, I think he finished fourth There were a lot of people the Lucca stands, the Lucas does not even deserve our time.. It doesn't deserve our time It doesn't I just want to note, he was on all one hundred ballots for All NBA, ninety one first place votes and nine second place votes All one hundred ballots and only played sixty four games and had to get a pass, a waiver from the NBA to even be eligible If there were a conspiracy against Luka Donchich He would not be on all one hundred ballots with ninety one first and finishing first team. So The next time somebody on social media elsewhere tells you that there' some mass media conspiracies they hate Luca. they hate We don't know why they hate Luca, but we know they hate him. for some reason. There's something. Maybe they don't like his hair These people are ragebaiting. They're grifting They're misleading you. Don'tisten given's too much oxygen then it is. Otherwways, I just need to get off my chest. Speaking of aliens, Speaking of aliens, I'm a little nervous because My level of excitement for the Steven Spielberg movie Disclosure Day, which is coming out yes is I when I get this excited about a movie, I'm almost always disappointed and it's my fault. I get I get my hype level is too high. I haven't been this hyped for a blockbuster movie. in a long, long time. And I'm not like I don't know the MCU. I'd like it's that's not my thing. So there's probably other movies that have had this level of blockbuster intrigue. This one I'm just very exited I feel like it's A Steven Spilberg passion project that he's been waiting to make for a long, long time and has now made to his liking. So anyway realal quick, I Jail and Duran making all NB over Scottie Barnes now looks immensely regrettable given how amazing Scottty Barnes was in the playoffs and how not amazing Jel and Duran was I'm here to defend that decision. I don't think it really even needs to be defended Just again, it's a regular season award. I'm just going to say Right now. U And there's this idea that Jal and Duran is just mooching off of Kade Cunningham. and that Scottty Barnes is the number one option on a team that needs him to do everything. And there's truth to both of those polls Jail and Duran averaged almost twenty points a game in the regular season He, on isolations averaged one point two two five points per isolation. I'm looking on the S second spectrum stuff That was fifth among all ball handlers in the NBA with at least fifty isolations. you combine that with An offensive rebounding rate of fifteen percent. and his ability to push in transition and his passing. He was creating a little bit more offense than the all he did was dunk off Kade Cunningham critics would have you believe Now a lot of the offensive rebounds are created by Kate Kate Cuntingham's Kate Cunningham, Kate Cunningham's penetration. But I just think and defensively he was good, not great, but good. As a regular season award, I think he was completely deserving and Scottty Barnes was a tough casualty. and in the end, whatever U And I also saw like u, some criticism of well he fattened up against tanking teams toward the end of the season when Cade was out with the collapsed lung and the pistons remained awesome. I just like for the whole entire season pistons in hing like seven hundred minutes with Jayelen Durn on the floor and Kade Cunningham off the floor We're plus eleven for one hundred possessions for the entire season. So it it's like there's there was pretty a pretty airtight statistical case that Jalen Durin deserved to be all NBA. and it's not like He's the only guy who made it at the expense of Scottty Barnes. So I just like want to put that to bed Um Let's talk let's end on a glorious note, which is Game of the Ye is happening tonight Yeah First Thunder ive me one thing you're looking forward to in this game, Howard Beckon. Oh I mean I don't know how many times I've shrieked in the last week just at Wemby Things Often when he's pulling up from, you know, somewhere between the logo and and the arc U What am I looking? I don't These two teams are incredible. It sucks that Jaylen Williams and AJ Mitchell are both out, I assume still tonight And hopefully on the spur side of it, you know, Fox and Harper are still good good to go. I would love to see both these teams at full strength for this entire series. That's not the reality of the NBA in twenty twenty six, unfortunately. I'm just looking forward to seeing whatever the next stage of Weimby's real time growth is right before our eyes, right? And this is not to ignore anything about the Thunder or any disrespect to them. like they they're a fun team. but you know, it's this is how it goes, right? Their breakout was last year and we got to like discover what they were all about and just how far they could stretch themselves and the things that sheake could do and This this is new. Like Wemby's been around for a couple years, but this is new every single stage, every game of his first NBA post season at age twenty two. to see the the How serious he's become even? How ferocious. One of the things I've loved about him personality wise is how giving he's been of himself. in interviews, right? He's very open, he's very elaborate in his answers. Do you notice how he's gotten and not in a rude way Not off putting. He's not being being mean to the mia or anything He's just got like he the dude' gotten deathly serious And the answers are very he's always very literal anyway in the sense that he always tries to answer the exact question. He won't just take off on his own whatever He usually tries to answer directly And he's doing that, but he's That dude' locked in I think it's one of the things I love about him most of the last couple of years and seeing how he's he's come into this this this place in the league is that The greats aren't just talented on day one, like, oh, look at his wingspan. L at his look at how well he can shoot the three for a seven footer or, whatever, all this stuff that charts out as an all time great. It's ultimately ends up being a lot about how they conduct themselves, their work ethic, their seriousness, how much they actually care, how much they actually want to win. There are plenty of guys with a lot of talent who don't really want to win as much as you would hope they do or think they do They do This guy is about it And The joy of watching it is not just the incredible feats of athleticism and shop making and ball handling that we see It's seeing he actually fucking cares. He wants this badly And I don't know. that I think for just permeates everything and watching a game with him And he since the second half of game three, obviously that was a Thunder wind game three but has has after a brief blip of, okay, They're defending me with big guys after game one and I'm Not sure how I can get to the rim as easily as I did in that game when seventy something percent of the shots came at the basket He is just played with more force in the last six quarters, just rolling harder to the rim And Castle's got embkets at the rim, Fox has got ambkets at the rim just directing as much of his energy toward the basket as possible in game four fifty four percent of his shots came at the rim in games two and three it was about thirty percent and the Spurs got forty six percent of their shots at the basket in game four, which is their highest amount of the series The thing I will be looking for is It's a little unfair particularly if J Dub and AJ Mitchell, the second and third best ball handlers on the team are out and Chet is averaging eleven points a game in the series and just hasn't been able to get into the series offensively So all of that said, a little unfair I think this is the biggest this game tonight is the biggest challenge of Shay Giles Alexander's career. And I say that because I said this with Bill on Sunday Game four It's two two, so no one has figured anybody out Game four had the feel of the spurs figured out best way to defend the thunder. They stopped trapping high on the floor and they only really sent dramatic help to Shee whether it was on the Well let's just stick to the ISOos whenart Hartenstein's off the floor and Victor's playing his zone Sake can get into the pain at will, like no one is keeping him out of the paint. The difference was the help was only coming when he got in the paint And I think it was just an understanding of they're just killing us when we trap with open threes And if we have Victor back there We don't have to do all this crazy stuff. Let him get into the paint and then we'll swarm him and he'll have to figure it out from there And it's just a very hard thing. to navigate and even like those Hartenstein floaters at the beginning of the game when he is in the game They just made a decision like We're going to Victor iss coming up to the level of the screen onhe And he's going to track Shay just not let him get clean tos and forced to pass to Hardenstein and he can get back and make them take those floaters seventeen feet in the air because he's so goddamn tall But when Shay is playing the one on one game and the traps aren't there It's just a really hard puzzle to solve because He gets in the lane with a guy on his back. and Victor in front of him. two guys showing a little bit of like on our toes help, but not totally committed help from the wing There's just no room to do anything. and I don't even know what the solve for that is? other than They still were able to generate some good threes Uh and they just have to make more of them. like those Kenrich Williamsrees were I think instructive shots, even though the game was out of hand at that point I don't know what the like part of the part of it is He's just going to have to make more of the clean ish shots that emerge and he had one where he like was like, you know what? if you're going to crowd me in the middle, I'm just going dribble all the way to my my pet spot on the baseline sideline area and make shots from there It's the biggest challenge he's faceed and it had the air of game had the first moment of like, okay, one of the teams has figured out a fundamental thing that works in this series and is sustainable and I just without a second and third ball handler to kick it to because that's the way you really beat that defense is kick another guy drives, you relocate And we and we pile the advantage on top of advantage, on top of advantage until it gets wider. We make Victor defend able drives and kicks Without those two guys, it's really hard. and I'm just curious to see what the answer is Game of the Aar tonight, Howard Beck You're the man, thanks for waking up early with us today. and Boy, the Ns I'll see you somewhere. World's most famous arena is going to be hosting the NA Fals. New York is going to have the finals. and the World Cup at the same time And it's going to be summer and I'm a little I'm little afraid for what the city is going to be like. I justt know I sorry. I just know that I have never seen somebody NYPD in a four block radius around the garden as've as I've seen after the first couple of games of the conference finals and I can't even imagine what it's going to be for the finals. It's going to be bonkers. never mind I' the commentary for later. Howard' back real ones this week and you're going to have something up on the ringer dot com about the cads. It sounds like thank you for your time, buddy. Let's bring in Joh Hollinger and talk about the other big issue in the NBA this week lotottery This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derb' right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and off sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Poohols, Rizzo, Bs, Sabbathia L Duncin Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Faskirzian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swings. History. Imed this is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Parks. In Philly, watch the T moobile Homeeruns be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of It turns out, it's more common than you'd think Heyrony's disisease, or PD for short PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis This can cause a curve or a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy may impact mental health It may also lead to anger and frustration impression, lower self esteem and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD The actual cause of PD isn't always known In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity The good news is PD is treatable If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment. To learn more about Pyroni's disease, visit talkboutpD. comform O the other big story in the NBA that affects the Sadsack teams and some of the non Sadsack teams is happening in two days. the board of governors will vote on the three two one Boom, lottery proposal John Hollinger, you're the perfect guy to talk about this with because A, you are brilliant and B, you worked in a front office. You worked in a front office that is has some particular things at stake with this vog that that we'll talk about. But I just wanted to like there's been you've written about it And there's just been a lot of debate about I think everyone understands broadly what this proposal does with its relegation zone and its ever flattening of the odds. It just makes it prorofitable be terrible more random in terms of who picks at the top in the middle and everything, just with still The general withered away but still there principle of you know, the best teams won't pick at the top and the worst teams will disproportionately pick in the top twelve at least more randomization, more flattening, and this general debate that you've written about this general discomfort that I think exists, even though I expect this proposal to pass of Okay, we get that this is addressing egregious tanking, which was particularly egregious this season and really removes the incentive to do that Does it have a downside of The draft is supposed to be hope for bad teams. It's supposed to redistribute talent. to the teams that eat it the most A are we risking trapping bad teams in an endless cycle of badness by not rewarding them with a better chance, at least of a high pick in the draft 's it's a hard debate to wrap your head around because I think Um You know All of our basketball souls are sick of tanking but also well versed in the reality that The draft is supposed to be a mechanism to redistribute talent to the teams who need it the most. and I've always kind of believed in my gut. Like every time someone would propose Well, let's get rid of the draft or let's have all thirty teams have an equal chance at the number one pick and just disconnect records from pick order That has always felt icky to me. And I've said many times, it all sounds great until the Thunder gets the number one pick in the draft. You're like, oh, the Thunder just got AJ Deana. That seems bad But where do you net out on this proposal? Has it struck the right balance? Are you As we approach the vote, are you more enthusiastic than you were two weeks ago, less enthusiastic? What are your actual thoughts on it I am probably more enthusiastic. There are a couple of micro elements that I think could be better, but Let's not have the perfect for the enemy of the good. I think The number one objective. I mean, the end of this season was awful Half of the schedule is unwatchable on any given night. Because if you have eight tanking teams, they all have an opponent. That means sixteen at of thirty. That's half the league, right? So like you can't do that. You have to protect the product first. So This definitely accomplishes that. Teams will be trying to win basically through the end of the season. There will be some teams who are locked into the three ball area that will take their foot off the gas probably the last couple of weeks. but than other than that, everyone's going to be trying basically through through the course of the entire season and It even disincentivizes some of the things like shutting guys down. even if you because when you're out of it Yes, you can tank for the lottery day, but the other thing you do is shut down veteran players because you just You don't want them to play anymore, basically not just from a tanking perspective, but from an injury prevention perspective. And so those teams just descend into awfulness either way. And so I think they've done a lot to address those things And You know, we've we've definitely settled on taking as the best way to improve a bad team Every bad team has relied on that for years now. So is that the only way to improve a bad team? I mean, I think I think that remains an open question. I mean You look at Brooklyn, they had no picks. They had probably the worst rebuilding situation in history and they still built themselves up to a playoff team before Katie and Kye arrived You look at Indiana last year They didn't they They were able to do a middle build with no tanking and' one game from the championship several of the best players of the last several years were not high draft picks. when you look at Janest, Joker, even, you know, Cry Thompson, Draymond to then not a top five pick among them So Yes, it was like given the option if I was running a team, yes, I would I would tank given the incentives that were in place. But there are other ways to do this without tanking. and Would they be as likely to be successful as just a straight tank? Probably not, but We know that that there are other ways to bake this pie I've always said tanking is the most effective of a bunch of long shot ways to build a championship team. It's still a long shot. It's it might be the shortest long shot, the easiest long shot, whatever, but It's still you need to get the right draft pick the right time Um and You know, let's just first be clear about what we're talking about in terms of the change. Currently, just a couple of statistical examples to really boil it down Currently, if you're one of the three worst teams in the league you have a forty percent chance ish at a top three pick That will shrink from forty to sixteen percent in the new system when you are if you're one of the three worst teams, you're in the relegation zone U If you are a mid tier team like one of the three ball teams, right now you have depending on where you are a ten to fifteen percent chance at like a top three pick That's going to go up to twenty four percent And similarly for a top five pick, you have, again, it varies a lot depending on where you are in that range from like the fourth worst to the tenth worst likeike a twenty five percent chance at a top five pick and that's going to go up to almost a forty percent chance. There are some teams. Like a like if you just isolate like the sixth worst team The odds at the top three pick actually go down a tiny bit in the new system. So it really depends where you are. But those are the changes we're talking about And honestly, like If I like the proposal, I think it's got some flaws that we can talk about. I just I'm with you in that tanking has become worse problem than being trapped in badness. And I'm ready to live in a world where we prioritize eliminating the worst problem. And that's tanking in part because We've seen teams trapped in badness under the current system already. The Wizards, the Kings, New Orleans for like a lot of their history have not been helped by tanking. Tanking is not a failsafe. And so I'm okay with sort of changing the incentives that way. And this is just where I really come down I was talking to a GM over the weekend about this wrestling with this and he said to me something that I feel too is like, We've never really lived in a reality where we know what the NBA looks like when everyone is actually trying to win. And I'm ready but like I'm ready to live in that reality because You know, It's it's probably not that hard to build a five hundred team If you're trying to win And we've seen teams build to that And then get to that level and then make some smart moves to climb up even further. And I'm ready to just live in a reality where everyone is trying to win all the time with the remnants of a draft, that's still is going to reward the worst teams or the bottom teams more than the good teams U And it could be that like when everyone is trying to win It actually gets harder to build a five hundred team than it is now because you don't get to you don't get to fatten up against these teams aren't trying to win but I'm still don't even live there. Yeah. the NBA is Lake Wobagon right now where everyone who's trying is above average. There were nineteen teams with winning records this year. That should be impossible. And it was possible because the eleven teams that were under were So bad. like winning between thirty and forty games is basically a sucker's bet And you've seen al very few teams end up in that Golden State accidentally ended up there this year You see very few teams end up between thirty and forty wins because they reach a point where they realize they're going to end up there and then they you know, pull the rip cord and knock themselves down in the standings like Memphis did this year And so that's going to end and that will be a really welcome thing U There's also these sub rules that you can't have the number one pick in the draft two years in a row. So wizards you cannot get the number one pick again next year. You shouldn't be trying to get the number one pick because you have Anthony Davis and Trey on longime illustrious wizards careers for the two of them U And the controversial one, Kevin O'Connor broke this news over the weekend You can't have a top five pick. three straight years And Why that matters is They're backdating it to the twenty twenty five draft where Utah had the fifth pick and selected Ace Bailey. Utah has the second pick this year. So they will be banned from having a top five pick Next year Problem They don't own their pick next year. the grizzl do. And so the grizzlies buy the transitive property of NBA lottery math are now banned as the current proposal stands from having a top five pick next year in the event that Utahs picked Falls there seemeems unlikely. Utah is telegraphed through its moves that it's trying to win next year. You never know. guysu get injured, teeams don't work. lotteryalls. lottery balls get more random. you can jump in there, right? Utah could easily end up in the play in be a two ball team and then have a decent chance of ending up in the top five. Yeah And Memphis, I'm assuming is furious at this. I actually think this is one of the rare cases where a team is blindly self interested and also correct. I think that's I think that's an unfair wrinkle. They made this trade based on a different set of rules And now a new set of rules is being inflicted upon them. Now I think they are supportive of it from what I've heard. I think they're one of the teams that's very supportive of the relegation zone and all that But it doesn't feel fair to me that that's being that rug is being pulled out from under them. Am I missing something? I'm always suspicious when a team is self interested, but they actually seem correct I don't understand why you couldn't grandfather in the picks that were already traded Right? That seems like the easiest thing to do because I mean Like if Brooklyn had won the lottery this year that would have affected Houston next year, not Brooklyn And there are chances that those Phoenix picks Houston own because to be clear because to be clear down the line because to be clear just to simplify it for people. Houston has the right to swap picks with Brooklyn next year And if they had gotten the number one pick this year, Houon would have been like, wait a second, we're not allowed to get the number one pick because because Brooklyn got the number one pick last year and we happen to own their pick. And like you said They're looking at these son's ps. Or the nets are looking at these Nick picks or Denver picks that are distant future picks and thinking, well It doesn't seem likely that any of those teams, even the sunons are going to be picking in the top five year after after year, but you never know The real design of the rule is to stop the spurs from getting Castle, Wembinyama and Harper in three straight draps, right? And the number one rule is designed to stop you know what happened in Cleveland a decade ago. And that's fine, but When it's when it's a different team that that already has control of the pick, I think you can use some common sense and grandfather that one in Yeah, I agree. I don't I don't really get why that would apply the way that that it does. And by the way, you nailed it. The top five three years in a row thing is, I think a direct response to what the Spurs have done and credit to the Spurs like nobody made the other teams not pick Steph Castle second and third and first As an Atlanta resident that hurts. but ye Yeah, it's not looking great for my other my fellow Zach down there. but If that's really your target, well, Uah picking twice into the top five and then Memphis picking onnce in the top five, it doesn't really fall under the auspices of what you're trying to target P I think this is going to pass It seems like a fate accomple that it's going to pass, but you never know until the votes are cast. I'll bet some team votes against it out of principle U I'm overall I get the small market concern. I get that you're taking a tool out the toolbox concern. I'm ready to live in this world and it' it is not meant to be a permanent solution. It is a Temporary solution, potentially unless everybody loves it with a sunset provision built in. and the ability to look at it again in a couple of years, a few years, whatever. So I think it's good have you do you have any reason to believe it's not going to pass? Oh, I think I think it'll pass. Yeah. and even like The metethist situation So There are like fourteen other teams that are okay with that because it increases their odds of being in the top five. So So I think the vote is actually a little unfair for them that way U I'm actually curious if the Kicks will vote against it just because they vote against everything And maybe the Kicks are in such a good mood that they'll actually their end their streak of sending James Dolan's representative in there and just no No. No, I don't like the food at this meeting. I want a different kind I want a different kind of sparkling water I just everything different Um, I do want to go through something that I've hinted at before which is a type of proposal that is gaining momentum around the league, not for now But for five, eight, ten years from now. if the leeague decides that this thing isn't working is a credits proposal where you just the lottery is gone notot the lottery, the lottery iss not gone U the ordering of the draft is completely kind of scrapped in the way that we tie it to record now and every team gets a credits proposal. I've hinted at this And I have the proposal. Do you want me to just read I have one proposal. one the one proposal which has come from the Celtics U I have it. It's been sent to me not by the Celtics, but by other teams I've seen it And I just think this is a useful example for people to like understand what this is. or I'm going to just sort of outline it to you, okay Every team starts every season with a hundred credits. and you bid the credits on draft slots. So if you really want the number one pick And you own a for you can still trade draft slots. So like I can trade you my draft my first round draft slot unattached to a particular pick in Um twenty thirty two and now if I'm a team, I have two first rounds of life slots. But I can take all my credits them I'm the number one pick And Credits can roll over so I can keep all my credits. If I see a draft toward's rears downline. I can bid three hundred credits on the number one pick We can trade credits back and forth. We can trade players for credits. And I'll just read how it works In late April, Each team secretly submits a credit bid for each pick they have. In early May, the League publishes all the bids On lottery night for the first pick The top four highest bidders for that pick are put into a lottery amongst themselves probability proportional to the number of credits each team bid toward that slot So there could be a team with a huge edge based on if they put a gazillion credits The winner of this mini lottery gets the first pick gets charged halfway between their own bid and the bid of the lowest bidder and is removed out of the pool For the second pick, the number five bter is added to the three non winners and another lottery is held. and we do that all the way down until The end You are subtracted twenty credits for every playoff series that you win so that the worst teams in any given year still should have The most credits Teams can have more than one pick slot in either round of the draft Each slot is associated with a separate bid Teams mayid zero and just pick at the end of the first round And the second round operates the same way Uh and what else The league can find teams by docking them credits if they believe that they're tanking and That's basically it. And the idea is a market based system and I think the main criticism of it is it's confusing for fans, but you know, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But what do you think of that general notion? The biggest the biggest thing that I wonder in my head is that there are going to be years where fifteen teams bid zero credits. and how you resolve the back end of the draft that way. But that's a relatively minor problem in the grand scheme of things Um, It's it's an it's an interesting proposal. and probably be less redistributive than the current system. I guess I'm trying to understand what happens with the pick that I've already traded That's all covered. I'm too bored to redo that now. but that's all traded picks and protections obviously go away. There's no protections because you're just bidding on pick slots basically And I can own more than one pick slot and a draft, but I can allocate my bids so that everything is. So like I could sayve I'm if I'm a bad team, I can trade you, my veteran player for forty of your draft credits. I can roll over one hundred of my draft credits if I want them all for the next draft And then I can bid two hundred and fifty credits on the number one pick in the AJ D Banid draft and think, okay, I've given myself a chance. And if I don't win that, I'll probably win the second pick or something like that. It's interesting. And the point of it obviously is It completely separates not completely because of the playoff teams losing draft credits as they win series, but it more or less separates from Draft position you can still but still leaves room for like organic rebuilding. Like okay, we are this team has hit It's Apex let's start trading people for credits. and maybe maybe it's just interesting you wouldn't even bother trading for picks, it seems like, you would just trade for credits. Trade for credits instead of pick slots. Yeah. And what it does to the trade market is interesting. I mean, even this current proposal, the one that's being voted on Thursday, I'd actually want to get your thoughts on this. One of the concerns is because every pick is going to have a higher chance of being because mid midling first round picks are going to have a higher chance of moving wildly up in the draft. it's going to freeze the trade market a little bit. Do you buy that I think For secondary players will'll just see top five protections on picks and it'll be just like it was except you have a better chance of getting the pick if you're the receiving team because the team can't tank their way to keeping it. Um, so I don't really see a change in that. and then the best players are still going to command unprotected ps. I mean That's that's just how it is like Like a guy like Gonis. Yeahah, those it's still going to be unprotected picks. It's not that's not going to change anything because the receiving team and really the trading team do is expecting that the team that gets Yonis is probably going to be pretty good, right? So I don't think that's going to change much of the logic there And I only outline this credits thing because it deserves a fuller hearing than it's gotten so far. I've just mentioned it here and there and and I have it and I'm looking at it. And I think it still deserves a fuller hearing than this, but it's the kind of thing that it's like being tabled For now, while we look at whatever emerges from this board of governors vote but I'm actually surprised how many teams kind of like it. I expected it to be a little too wonky, a little too like not not complicated for teams, but There is a concern of like point is this all too confusing for casual fans to follow? But like I think the proponents of this system would be like, a, it's not that complicated and B. Can casual fans follow like the five team pick swap that Memphis, Phoenix or Orlando, whatever the hell it is or like do they know what the second apron? I mean, it's already wildly complicated. I think this I expect this kind of idea and this is just one of several proposals like this We'll get a deeper look as this goes along, but we both expect the rules to pass This week. I guess bottom linees, we both expect the rules to pass this week Although there's no perfect solution to any of this and everything has downsides and unintended consequences, we both seem to think like I'm ready to live in this world Oh, I'm excited to see like real games in March between teams that are out of the playoffs where like you can actually like one of the things fans love to see when it's a losing team is give us hope by letting me watch like our draft picks and our young good players. But even those guys get shut down now Now you're watching, you're not even watching that. You're watching Bez and Bang and, you know, I feel bad that he's become just the go to reference forike I just played hard. This is like, give me forty eight minutes. I went to Yale, like I'm in this is great. L and now he's like the go to reference for this I I had Lucas Williamson on the tip of my tongue too. So that was a but that that Jazz Grizzlies game at the end of the year was was a cry for help Did you watch it, John? Oh, hell no I was going to say because that would be the ultimate cry for help. If on a menu of all the games, you were like, you know what? I got to dig in on this one. I would have been like, actuallyually the person who needs the help is you. No, but you're right. I mean the relegation zone games, the relegation zone against each other games and the relegation zone against the teams just outside of it would be like really fun games and the teams would try hard and that's the point. of that proposal I just I get the concern I get the idea that these it's going to be harder for some teams to dig out U I just think The leeague has correctly identified what the more serious problem is and let's let's let's at least give it a shot. And by the way, I've said this before You have to give it a shot And whether you like it or not, whether you're pro it or anti it if In this scene, I I can't repeat it enough. The same thing happened with these lottery odds that exist now, the current ones are relatively new. They're like eight years old. And they were designed to kind of randomize the lottery a little bit more to flatten the odds Everyone voted for it except the Thunder, I think if I'm remembering correctly. some after initial vote where it was a little less popular And then What happened exact thing that the rules were intended to do happen. And everyone after the first year was like, o my God, it's a bad idea. We've aerired on the side of randomness and it's like no, you just like give it fifteen years. to play out and it'll find the right balance of raandomness in some years, mostly bad teams winning the lottery like we saw this year. But people just get so impatient. likeike you need to give these systems time before you judge them. And that's that's my worry is that the league will do this There'll be an outcome everyone hates and then there'll be an immediate like rebellion. likeike, o my God, what have we done You know it's going to be another impact too that I think people aren't really talking about is in the trade market teeams that are Bad now still have an incentive to put together a real roster And so they're going to be in the market for good players in a way that they were not for the last several years. And so I think that's going to change some things when we look at the markets for like secondecond line guys. likeike if Tray Market was Treay Young was still with the Hawks, he'd be a perfect example where like a team like Washington would be like, Yeah, sure, you know, like that we'll do that. I mean, they were, I don't know if they knew this was coming, but they were, you know were getting up kind of ahead of the They might to your point. They might actually play T young and Anthony Davis after acquiring them. That would be the other thing. yes. Anyway, all right, we This is just a very interesting big picture conversation and you're the best person to scratch the surface of it with. John Hollinger, the best to ever do it. Read him at the athletic. Everything you read is must read E everything you read must read. You wrote about this maybe what two weeks ago before the comp on, I feel like. And that was the impetus for me having you on. Go read that column if you want John's deeper thoughts on this Hollinger and Duncan podcast every every Fridays, where are we now We usually record on Wednesdays, but we move it around a little during the playoffs because I'm traraveling and he's doing stuff, you know I will see you soon at the NBA F finals. John Holland, thanksud. Thank you But that's it for today's edition of the Zach Low Show. Thank you to Howard back. Thank you to John Hollinger. Thank you as always. to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production. and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching. The Zach Low S show. We'll be back on Thursday in the meantime Enjoy the game tonight Wh, It's a biggie Thanks again, everybody twenty one over in President select states for Kansas an affiation with Kansas Star Casino or eighteen and over in Prididenton in DC, Kentucky, O Wyoming gambling probleblem. Call one eight hundred gambler or one eight hundred My reset. Call one eight eighty eight seven hundred eighty nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or isisit MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here