Iconic Calls and Word Choice

This episode is brought to you by eBay I've been hearing people talking about selling on eBate a lot lately. and honestly, I get it. We all have stuff that no longer fits our lives. And for what I hear Selling on eBay is actually really easy. Just snap a few photos, write a description, set your price. Suddenly the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next. Find what you love, se what you don't on eBay show the thunder, even the Western conference finals against the sppurs it got a little nicy there at the end. There was a corner three that could have got down to two with more than a minute to go. Boy wouldn't have that have been fun. What did the Thunder do on both ends of the floor T get back in the series, massive adjustments on both ends of the floor. A lot of Isaiah Hardenstein, a lot of hair pulling A violent dunk that we'll talk about by Steph Castle, just these games are between these two teams. Holy smokes, the level of play, the level of intensity and unfortunately injuries beginning to be a part of the story, Jalen Williams and Dylan Harper Both leave game two. prognosis unclear for game three. Dereren Fox did not play Game two, we'll talk about the injuries, how they'll impact the series. Jason Tim from who Tonight is here To go over all of that And what to expect in game three? like the adjustments to the adjustments to the adjustments and these two teams are going to test each other and and make each other stretch further than any other opponent could. Quicky, we get to Nicks calavves. I'm headed to Madson Square Garden for game two tonight Game one. W! Game one was a thing Game one, not the finest moment for the Cleveland Cavaliers and Kenny Atkinson and James Harden and on and on. canan the cabs respond We go quickly on what we saw in game one and what adjustments we might see in game two. And then Kevin Harlland is here to just be fun, just talking basketball, talking words, talking language, talking iconic broadcast stuff. Why have him on now? because his time at Amazon for the season just ended. Amazon Primes coverage is over. For the season. so we reflect on that and just the NBA in general, He's got some free time. I said, why not bring a legendary voice on? That's all coming up next on the Zach Low Show Zach Low show is brought to you by Fanl. The conference finals are here St you know how it' go down, takeake your shot with Fandal and get closer to the action. Fandl is the best place to bet the teams, the players and plers during the NBA post season. Build the same game parleay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the Fandl spportsbook app now and play your game twenty or over in Presidident of select states eighteen or are over in DC, Kentucky Wyoming gambling problem call one eight hundred gambler. callall one eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CcPG dot org slash chat in Connecticut Zach Lo show. It's Thursday morning. I'm headed back to the world's most famous arena for game two of whatever the hell that was that happened in game one of Nick Cavs. But before we do that, we got to download game two last night Thunder spurs, the thunder even it up one one. Look who's here For the first time, Jason Timp of Hoops tonight just grinding every night with videos that you have to watch. onene of the guys I always say If you want to know what happened in the game Not whose legacy is on the line and who choked and who stepped up under pressure, but like actually what happened in the game and also some of that other stuff Jason Timf and Hoops tonight, part of the Volume, greatreat podcast N network, shout out Colin C Howard. How you doing, bud Zach, it's an absolute honor to be here and I can't imagine a more fun playoff series to break down with you than this epic sppurs Thunder onene It's been pretty epic so far. I would say before we get into the nitty gritty of game two, Thunder make a whole pile of adjustments. a lot of stuff happens. It gets a little hairy at the end They miss a hammer three. They ran hammer. I whenever the spurs run hammer I shout Hammer to nobody. like no one's in my office. haammer like one of the assistant coaches on the bench would have cut it to two at the end of the game but it missed and then Stefan Castle had his ninth turnover of the night to basically end the game, but we'll get all to all that T defining features of this series through two games and too me anyway. perhaps going forward One is unfortunately becoming injuries and it's nine in the morning. We don't know what is the prognosis for Dylan Harper who left with a hamstring strain or hamstring something last night in the third quarter, leaving the Surs with one of their three lead ball handlers. We don't know what the prognosis is for Jayen Williams who after a pretty good game w. F following a long layoff due to a hamstring strain that has messed up his whole season Left the game again in the second quarter,ually guessed at the end of the first quarter, it never appeared again Poor Zora Stevenson just chasing people around corridors at the Pay Com Center trying to get injury updates. And of course, Daron Fox with the highigh ankle sprain hasn't played at all in this series and just zooming way out I think it's pretty clear the Spurs can win this series with two of their three guards If Harper' out and Fox pllays, they can win If Foxes out and Harper plays, they can win four times in seven games, not just like win another game. They can win the whole series. They almost came back and w one last night Just Castle of the three of them available Jason, before we get to my second major theme of the series I don't think the Spurs can win. two of them out. If Harper's out and Fox is out and it's just left with Castle to do everything and then oh my God, what happens when he rests? We have to bring in Jordan McLaughlin and who made two threes last night I think that's the critical mass line where I mean, I guess anything's possible being a little hyperbolic. I don't think thepurs can win three more games. If those two if they're without two of those three guards in all the games Yeah, I think the same goes for OKC too. We didn't even mention AJ Mitchell seemed to have some sort of weird thing happen with his quad at the end of the game to where I'm watching the replay waiting to see like if maybe caught an elbow or a knee and it didn't seem like he did. So I don't we obviously don't know what any of that means, but I think for both of these teams being I saw some tweet before you continue about he told one of the beat reporters, I think I'm good. I just got hit in the quad. So that's why I didn't mention him. That's good news And before you continue, I should have also said I do think I don't But yes, I don't think Dpers can win the series without two of those three guards Even if Jayail and Williams is out for the rest of the series. I think Jelen Williams out versus two guards of the sppurs out. Oklahoma City wins the series. Other than that, I don't even know. But yeah, please continue. the injuries just suck obviously I totally agree just simply because the main dynamic that I've noticed so far through the first two games is that when the spurs take care of the basketball They have like a physically overwhelming quality that starts with Wby, but it extends to the guards. likeike onene of the main things that stood out to me on the film is just how often Steph Castle And Dylan Harper as well just bully through some of these smaller OKC guards to get two feet in the paint. I feel like Chet's rim protection has been a borderline non factactor Same goes for Isai Hartenstein when these guards are driving. And that's kind of shown in the in the lineup data. likeike when Vasll Champpenni, Harper, Castle and Wemby are on the floor so far in forty one minutes. they're plus eighteen. And when that group takes care of the basketball and they get in the half court and they run their stuff They get usually something that is either a high quality catch and shoot three or two feet in the paint type a good look for one of their guards It's the turnovers where it's gone the other direction. likeike we have a fifty five to twenty seven points off a turnovers advantage for OKC through two games. And so That's where to the point about the critical mass There's a certain amount of these Steh Castle turnovers that are like classic young guy turnovers where that he's been making all season, right? Like a lot of those like get two feet in the paint and then throw a pass into someone's hands or get a little too cute with the dribble. But I feel like a good third of these Steph Castle turnovers have been a product of just outrageous usage. that's been foisted on him as a product of the injuries And I feel like this is the case for every ball handler in the league. When you go way up in usage, it causes these like mental fatigue turnovers where you're just trying to buy a possession arrest here or there by like that cutter looks like he might be open. If I just throw it, maybe we'll get something and I won't have to drive or I won't have to force something physically. And I think there's been a lot of that kind of stuff with Steph We're getting Deer and Fox back would be huge. And Fox doesn't quite have the physical imposition of Harper. Like look at how many times Harper just dusted Lou door either by turning the corner on him or plowing through his chest or just in general forcing his way to the basket. But he got several clean looks at little midrange pull upps that he's missed And I think Fox, even though he won't have the same physical position, he's a little bit more steady as a ball handler and he has that mid range pull up that he can go to as a counter. So it's a different type of player. But I think Fox would be able to fill that role enough to where if Dylan had to miss her game or two, they'd be able to kind of fill those gaps And the spurs, by the way, are so good And obviously they're all the way ready to win the championship now like their're a championship caliber team immediately. We we've known that for months, but they've proven it already in the playoffs. I think they they they could win the series if they had all their guards healthy and Jylen Williams was out. likeike that's the way that balances on that end. L I think the Thunder need all hands on deck. to win against the full strength. but you mentioned Harper and and Castle and the bully ball. I mean, when Harper just went through Lou Dort in the first quarter of the game and laid the ball in I had to pause for a second to be like That's Lou Dor. That's not like Shay, who's a little skinny, obviously a good defender. That's like a walking cinder block that Dylan Harper, a twenty year old rookie guard Just like, no, I'll just go right through them and make them back pedal out of bounds and lay the ball up Castle does that to everybody four times a game Yeah also had that one it was a pick it was a two man game with Weny where they trailed over the screen with somebody. I don't remember who was. And he just pinned the guy on his back like freaking Chris Paul but big Slow dribble, slow dribble. shheded him and then rose up for shedded is not a word. shhed him and rose up for like a fifteen foot pick and roll long tooth that looked just like a like a twenty nine year old in his prime. Better in point Gard and of course, we probably should have led the show with An act of basketball violence so audacious that I screamed in my office when Steph Castle absolutely obliterated Isai Hardenstein. Isaiah Hardenstein was critical to Thunder in Game two. We're going to talk about all the adjustments they made putting him on Weby and all of that and just having him beat the hell out of Weenby I mean, that dunk is up there with the nastiest and most violent dunks I've ever seen I mean, off the top of my head I could not think of one that was like definitively more just strictly violent than that. somethingomething about the way Castle cocks the ball back on those dunks about how high he is. He's like above the defender. so he's dunking on their face on top of their head And the violence of his follow through, the speed of his follow through It was a legit like act of violence. I remember when Aunt Edwards had won over John Collins where John Collins was literally injured by an Anthony Edwards Dunk That was pretty violent. I think this was even more violent than that. So violent that A Hardenstein had to take revenge by pulling his hair like like a freaking schoollyard like elementary school brawl. We had hair pulling later in the game But yeah, these guards are Absolutely incredible. That dunkg I just wanted to luxuriate in that dunk for a couple more minutes. That was just unbelievable Yeah J just about every time the sppurs run double drag, they get the defense and rotation and they get a pretty decent look. And that was another example of that. They kind of got the defense and rotation. there were several attacks in the same possession and it kind of resulted in this runway for Steph to get into his one two and then he just I think it's been one of the funniest subplots of these first two games, whether it's there's this weird thing with Chet that I'm noticing, where like, he's almost like relying on verticality too much around the basket. And it's like I kind of wish you'd bow a little bit more, like be a little bit more handsy and crysical around the rim Be there have been several times where the Spurs guards are just playing off of two feet around Chet at the at the basket and are able to kind of finish around him Yeah not just stands. he just stands up with his hands up, which is like good. He's not going to foul and he's very tall But even Keldon Johnson had a couple of sequences of offensive rebounds where he just went up, miss, up, miss. and Ched is standing there. And he's an obstacle. But he's not preventing Keldan Johnson from getting the ball back over and over again and finally finishing one Exactly. And so I think that's kind of one of those next phases of development for Chet, which is like bring a little bit more physicality to your rim protection, especially for this matchup because it's very clear again, through two games that Like there was a take that I think it was it was either Dylan or Steph. so many of their takes look similar because they're such power guard takes. But one of them a transition take, Hartenstein's back and he's at the rim He just jumped in, hit him with his right shoulder and finished with his left hand at the basket relatively easily. There's definitely a certain amount a certain amount of like They see food when they see Isaiah or Chet at the basket. And that's one of those like kind of interesting dynamics where you know, I'm not going to sit and pretend like the Thunder don't have advantages. They were absolutely capable of being up to o in this series. But one of the things that's kind of stood out to me is like no matter what OKC does Seme wise There's a certain physical advantage that the Spurs guards have to get two feet in the paint, which I think is a relatively reliable thing for them and their shot quality over the course of the series. Well, you mentioned the turnovers. I mean, the recipe for their success in the regular season against Oklahoma City was one ripple effect of having all of these ball handlers is no one has to do too much. We have a lot of skill on the perimeter, not just size and speed and athletis, but skill and craft And we can take care of the ball against a defense where M teams don't have as much ball handling as we do, don't have as many skilled experienced ball handlers They can't take care of the ball and the sppurs can and they didn't yesterday. So I mentioned injuries and there's just not much to say about that. Everyone will get their MRIs today or whatever I will learn in the afternoon when I'm on the way to MSG probably, but The other the other just sort of general thing from this series for me is Just the sheer desperation that both teams are showing on a possion by possession basis. And that is That is like manifesting to me in three different ways. Number one is prically These coaches are just not wasting any time just throwing entire strategies in the garbage can and just unveiling new entire strategies like right off the bat. stuff that they may not have used the entire season against this opponent or any other oppintent. That's what we'll dig into later It's manifesting in the just massive lineup shifts. So the Thunder last night played. These two lineups. We saw and I mentioned after a game one. I think they're just going to have to play more shooting on the floor the way the sppurs are swarming Sheay and daring guys to shoot. We saw less Dort. We didn't see much of Cus so and Dor together. We saw more Mcain And so these these two lineups, Mitchell, Shay Kason Wallace, just fantastic game less than McCain and Set That lineup play three minutes Last night in one game played three minutes, not much ed one possession in the regular season, according to Cleaning the Glass And the similar lineup, AJ Say Carusso McCain Chet Six minutes last night plus five. six minutes. N not much doesn't sound like much it's half the quarter. It's eighth of the g T possessions in the entire regular season Jared McCain You know out of the rotation in the first round There's this whole is Darrel Morreay going to get fired? Is this trade the reason he's going to get fired? He's out of the rotation like Oh, look at Oh, Jerem Mcain B big deal he' out of the rotation comes back in the rotation in the Laker series does pretty well. Darrel Murry gets fired and it's like, o, but Jared McCain, likeike he had Some nice playoff moments Now it's like Is Jared McCain going to swing the NBA championship? Is that the end game of this portrait as Darrel Mury gets fired and Jared McCain not only plays like real minutes in the playoffs, but becomes An incredible swing player. And then the third way The desperation manifests and this is where you and I probably are just loving this is U just the effort level the urgency on every possession. like some of these offensive rebounds. Kaseason Wallace and Keldon Johnson jostled for one that Kaysason Wallace just just shoved his way inside position and got one and it resulted in a he made a three. Keldvin Johnson screaming in for an offensive rebound and a put backack to bring the spurs within six at the end of just every the urgency with which every loose ball is chased. Every two on one is contested from behind It's just a full on des its you could almost hear it. It's like it's like a if the game could make a sound It would be just a continuous Dream urgency. every they both these teams understand I have met it equal I have met a peer This team can beat me, this team can send me home. Every single possession, every single loose ball, must be approached with like a thousand percent urgency. and then you have guysu that are also doing stuff out of their comfort zone because this equal, this peer the stuff is easy for us away and suddenly Lou Dort has to drive and take mid range jumpers. Suddenly Kelldin Johnson has to set screens in the pick and roll and make plays out of the short role in the four on three because that's the best offense they have. That's the surprise attack and they got If you remember a quick three for Champagne with like three minutes left in the game that I think would have cut it to two that he maybe maybe to three. I can't remember that he missed off of that Kldvin Johnson actuallyion. that all of that is just It's just such great theater And yet you also wonder, is the sheer effort level required, the sheer speed and athleticism having some impact on these like leg strain injuries that are happening, but oututside of that to watch these two teams who beat the shit out of everyone all season have to Dig this deep against each other is just unbelievable sports theater They're both so well coached that they both have such a great understanding of the value of each individual possession. And I mean, we've seen like Same one San Antonio has a ten point lead in the fourth quarter and OK see comes all the way back last night S Okay see he had a ten point lead with like two minutes left. And if it if Devin Vasll hits that corner three in the left corner, we have ourselves a two point game. I'm sitting there watching that being like, is this is this happening? they go up K? The cell hits a three, Say miss they go into prevent offense a little bit the Thunderd, Say misses along to Victor gets an immediate baseline spin move post up score. It's down to five Shehake commits the hook offensive foul with like and then there's like, oh my Godd, there's a minute and a half left in the game. Is this happening? Anyway. I'm so I just like was was giddy watching this like stretch run re right. It's like it's buckets stop bucket We got ourselves OT again. Like it was crazy. watching and I think like the I would actually argue that the kind of depth advantage for OKC is kind of bared out here early. You mentioned the lineup data. I talked earlier about how Spur starters are playing awesome. but they've played forty one minutes together. There is not a single OKC lineu upp that's played ten minutes yet in this series. like in totality through the first two games. It was one of the crazier stats that I saw when I was t into the data. So as a result, there are Four Spurs players that have cracked eighty minutes already The only player in a Thunder jersey who' cracked seventy minutes is Shay And so as a result, there is a fatigue advantage that I think is going towards Okay. see. and I thought you could really tell starting in that late third into that fourth There was a lot of fifty fifty balls that started to go towards OKC. and I thought one of the pivotal sequenceces frrankly the pivotal sequence of the game is Harrison Barnes hits that corner three that cuts it to seenty nine seventy seven And then we get the jump ball And it's Steh Castle versus AJ Mitchell or excuse me, for V Stred McCain And Jared McCain just barely gets like enough of a disruption of the first tap that it forces Steh to tap at a second time in the opposite direction away from Wemby, which leads to the Thunder getting the ball back I can't remember who it is, but a Thunder playlayer gets a three I think it Kelt. Yeah and he misses the first one. And and and Kason Wallace comes flying in and beat it's not Wallace It's Wallace that gets the offens. That's the what I was mentioning earlier of like these just urgent omplete balls to the wall offensive rebound pursuits Yeah, exactly and and it ends up being worked back around for the big three Kason hits off of the right wing And then they go down to the other end. I think Wendby ends up missing a wide open three, which again he got a couple of really good looks down the stretch, which I think were could very well be fatigue related as well. But then they go down and U and that's when Alex Cruso kind of snakes through the lane and Hartenstein setits the Gortat screen and then Cruso pump fakes and gets that little, that little shot And like there was a certain amount of Wemby himself was literally energizer Bunny in game one. It was unbelievable how he kept finding the reserves to get what he needed to get done I thought Webby really started to show his fatigue on the offensive glass against Hartenstein down the stretch and just like kind of giving up inside position and getting pinned a few too many times and that is as we move towards the San Antonio at home portion of the series. Obviously, Dereren Fox being out and Dylan Harper being out requires you to lean on some unconventional groups and, you know, like for instance, the reason why they had to go that matchup zone is that was a Harron Barnes, Jordan McLaughlin group. so they didn't really have the perimeter defense personnel to handle the kinds of switching that they were doing up top and guarding Say. So like there's a certain amount of like, yeah, the injuries played a role, but I would argue as this series goes with the level of exertion that both teams are using and how much Mitch Johnson's relying on his starting group because he knows they have the advantage I do think it's going to be a kind of a fatigue war of attrition advantage towards OKC. and it's something to at least keep an eye on as we move forward. For sure And just if you had to boil that down to one stack eightighty six minutes with when bey on the floor, the sppurs are plus seventeen twenty minutes with when bey onond the bench, the sppurs are minus nineteen. That's that's basically not the whole series, but that's a lot of the series All right, let's dig into what we saw in Game two that was different. from game one and what that may portend for game three in San Antonio on I don't even know what is it? tomorrow Tmorrow it's every other day, the rest of the way, I guess. Yeah. The days are just the days now cease to exist. L everyone's excited for Memorial Day We weekend. I'm likeay Memorial Day weekend is just Etern conference game, Western conference game, Eastern They're just east games and west games Those are the days Oklahoma City put up one hundred and twenty four points per hundred possessions last night. The best offensive game, I think of the season against the sppurs and a very strong offensive game period Part of that was they just shot better. Say made more of the like, you're not going to get a lot of Deent looking floaters and mid range dumpers. you better make most of the ones that you do get and you made them And in transition, they didn't get as many opportunities, but they were much more efficient. in transition I think and we talked about how they just played sort of better offensive lineups to combat the sppurs defense. But I do think There were some tactical adjustments that they made and that's your bread and butter. So what did you see that helped loosen up the offense for the thunder other than just play better offensive guys and make more shots So the obvious one is obviously Hartenstein on Weemby. I think one of the things that it does is it creates just a little bit more like a foot or two closer mid range opportunity on those kind of pick and roll sequences then you're going to see when Wemby has more ability to kind of stunt upwards and kind of make them second guess themselves as they get closer to the basket. I mean, even that Alex Caruso little foul that we talked about late in the game as he's kind of coming through the lane when Hartenstein sets the C toot screen like Caruso' shooting basically a lefty floater from like four feet from the basket. That's a shot that they weren't getting when Hartenstein was off the floor, right? Be of how much more Wemby could kind of range around the basket. I think that there's a million trickle down effects of the Hartenstein piece Bail on him as fast as Mark did It fundamentally alters the physical profile of your lineups. Now all of a sudden, you're just tiny compared to the Surs team. Whereas when Hartenstein's out there, you have much more of a fighting chance Secondight fighting is a good word because He figured out how much leeway the officials were going to give him and he used every inch of it the rest of theame I mean they like that was phhysical as you will see one player play against Wemby Yeah, it was and that honestly is going to be one of the most interesting swings of the series as we move towards San Antonio because there's a version of that game officiating wise where we're Hartenstein fouls out pretty quick or ends up in foul trouble pretty quick. And I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens as we head into game three. But obviously you go from sixty one to forty rebounding advantage to forty five to forty one. We talked about the closeer mid ranges as a team. they were six for fifteen from mid range in game one. They were ten for fifteen in game two. It's a pretty sizable difference The Caruso and Kasten Wallace just making every single catch and shoot three that they get. They're seventeen for twenty nine from three so far in the series. That's just an absolutely crazy number for Alex So this is just what's going to happen in the playoffs with him, I guess. justust the bigger the game gets he just this is what he does Yeah. I think there's a part of that cumulative wear and tear effect on on Wby. the inside seals that Wby just torched OKC with in game one are gone now. likeike he's not getting. He had that one post up late in the game, but he's not getting anywhere near as many shot attempts close to the basket. I think Hardenstein has a really good ability to even when wheny's trying to drive to kind of use his physical leverage to regain control of Weenby even when Weby gets a little bit of an angle on a move. Now Weby countered that by basically like, I'm just going to throw it up at the rim and then I'll follow it and then I'll go'll talk about that into the floor, but dig me into dig me into the Thunder offense a little bit more because because Hardenstein playing Ardenstein playing more means Wemby is guarding a traditional center in a traditional defense more than he's just playing a one man Wby zone on the back line, which you're still he could still do with Hardenstein on the floor, but when he they have a traditional center They're just generally going to put them on the center and it's just the game looks more For lack of a better term, normal for the thunder offense Yeah. and it allows him to get into like a lot of the like the Chicago action that they were running for She coming out of the corner where he's getting into is traditional kind of like curling around the action with Wby sitting in a drop coverage, which creates some very similar reads. It creates the similar like spacing sequences with the way that they wheel off the ball that which is helping them generate They they generated twenty six more unguarded catch and shoot junp shots last night after twenty six in game one. So they're generating just a boatload of really high quality threes. There's I think a couple of other things. You mentioned the lineup structure. A lot more AJ Mitchell and Jared McCain alongside Se and those groups are just performing extremely well in large part because getting more of these dririve and kick sequences, we' getting multiple attacks on the same possession. and that is resulting in higher shot quality across the board as well. I just thought betweenween the moving sheay to attack out of the corner more frequently and then Isaiah Hartenstein, just being able to clear more space around the basket, set better screens as well. like it just created a lot of like you said, more traditional attacks for them that match what they were doing for the most part in the regular season, which can affect your rhythm and can affect like how confident the guys are in the offense I also I thought I talked about this after game one and it sounds counterintuitive. Like I wonder if they just need to go at Wemby more And I thought they actually did that. I mean, Chris Finch talked about this a lot in the Minnesota series. likeike we can't just be afraid of him. We have to go at him at the rim because there are trickle down effects of that. There are fouls. there are offensive rebounds when he goes up and challenges a shot and even if he gets it and AJ Mitchell went at him on a couple of floaters where he was the help defender and they got a big offensive rebound from Hardenstein late in the game JW drove Adam for a mid range to Caruso drove Adam for a foul And they put him in and they didn't actually they did not put him in as many like pick and rolls as I thought when I watched the game. I looked at the tracking da. It's about a normal amount of he's guarding the screener in the pick and roll. But I thought they just They weren't as afraid of him. And I think that's the approach that you have to have. I also thought I wonder I'd have to rewatch it because as you were hinting at before It's sometimes like confusing to figure out what kind of defense the Surs are in. Is it a straight Is it just a straight up zone? Is it everyone else plays man to manand and Wemy just does whatever he wants. Wait, corornets on the floor, what are they doing I did think they got a little too cute at times in the game playing these hybrid zone, whatever they're doing Particularly with Cornet on the floor, I just there were times where like Chet was left open in the corner and it didn't seem like they knew that Chet was going to be open in the corner and they had these desperate closeouts. Chet got a dunk, Chet drew a foul. There were some swing swing sequences that were opened up because Aain it was the cornet minutes. it's not the Wemby minutes and they were playing some sort of zone and the middle was just wide open Like they threw the ball to chat in the middle and it was panic rotation, rotation. There was the one that I just couldn't figure out What was happening where Weemby was in the game and he was playing zone And Jelen Williams is in the right corner And they threw the ball to Jayalen Williams and Wendby who was closest to him Instead of closing out over there, wait for Dylan Harper to run all the way across the court to close out on Joen Williams Joellan Williams makes a three Weemby's like screaming at Dylan Harper And I'm like, I guess that was Dylan Harper's job. I don't really understand why it was Dylan Harper's. I just thought the Surs were getting a little too cute with their zone stuff and they sprung some leaks that were like really they just didn't if they just played normal defense, they wouldn't be springing those kind of leaks Yeah, I think Sean Sweenneie would obviously be able to explain it far better than we could attempt to. But I think what they're trying to do is keep the big on the weak side corner no matter what and essentially wave switch to whoever like if anybody ever cuts through to that strong side they're trying to wave through. And like that's what's so kind of confusing about the whole thing is you have that play that you just talked about where Wendby gets pissed off because Dylan doesn't go to the corner whoeverver was that didn't run out to the corner. But then you also have play where check out the end one where Kason Wallace through and goes to the weak side and for some reason Harrison Barnes just follows him over there And then Luke Cornett is confused because Luke Cornett, I think Luke Cornett started the possession on Cayson Wallace Kason Wall is cut through to the weak side and Chet standing in the corner whoavves Harrison Barnes's man. Like Harrison Barnes is the guy guarding Chet to start the possession And then Caysason cuts through and for whatever reason, Harrison just follows him. And again, the ball was on the left side of the court. And so I thought the exact same thing. I thought like It's very clear that what they're trying to do is keep their bigigs at the rim as much as possible likeike even at the expense of giving up wide open threes, It just puts this incredibly intense like like awareness pressure and rotation pressure on the Spurs role players off of the center position. I think it's just really difficult. And I think I agree with you. I think there's a certain amount of like mayaybe a little bit more conventionality could help at least cut that twenty six open catch and shoot threes might be a few too many to give up to a team in OKC you frankly, all season long is shot really well on the wide open looks. Yeah, I guess my just general and this is a very dumbed down takeaway Um is I think with Wemby just you do whatever you want. It doesn't even matter. He's's you play him in a one manzone, or whatever I found myself wanting them to just play normal defense when Cornette was on the floor. Like I don't think Cornet is just powerful a weapon like that where I'm like, o, just have him play a one man. can you just play a regular Um M to man. Like there was even the one where Chet got I think we was in the fourth quarter. He kind of trailed the play in transition and just caught the ball in the paint with nobody on him and made like a leaning floater that was at and one. And it was because they just didnt they didn't know who was matching up with him and you just like walked into open space That was that side of the ball. Let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about where I think there were even more adjustments by the Thunder onn the other side of the ball This episode is brought to you by eBay I've been hearing people talking about selling on ebate a lot lately. and honestly, I get it. We all have stuff that no longer fits our lives. And from what I hear Selling on eBay is actually really easy. Just snap a few photos, write a description, set your price. Suddenly, the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next Find what you love, se what you don't On eBay All right, let's talk about the Thunder defense because I think they made even more changes on that end than they did in game one On the one hand, it felt like they worked in part because Wenbenyama did not get nearly as many shots at the rim in game one, seventy two percent of his attempts were at the rim, according to cleaning the glass in game two, thirty one percent of his attempts were at the rim Um On the other hand, the Spurs put up a better offensive rating they didn and game one by a lot A lot of that is just jumpshooting. They made their long twos and they made a lot more threes or they shot, you know, much better. three, but Obviously, the number one adjustment was We're not We're not getting too cute and putting our wings on oneembeno. We're just going to garden with centers and that's going to be Hartenstein and that's going to be ch a matchup that we've avoided. We're just going to play regular man to man, big versus big defense and we're going to drop back on the pick and roll. because because that's what we're going to do. And we're they tried to go under more on screens against Castle and Harperper, which I think was smart. They can't always do it. The Surs are very good at preventing you from doing that I think they just decided, look Here's the tradeoff we're making. When we put wings on Weemby, We can switch a lot and try to gum up the San Antonio offense that way Um, and we lose that ability We're trading that for we just have to keep him away from the rim and they showed us in game one When we do have wings on him when we do switch wing to wing, he's just going to roll and they're just going to throw the ball to him and he's going to get the ball and he's going to get offensive rebounds. He's going to live at the basket. And I think that largely change the shot diet the way that the funder wanted it to. We saw him like check's dropping back, Hartenstein's dropping back. the rolls to the rim are just not there in the same way. They're there. He can roll and he has gravity and he's opening up threes for other people. But he's not getting those easy catches where he just lards over the rim and just catches above everybody else I thought that adjustment essentially did What was it intended to do to the point that I'm already wondering The next question is all right. So if you're if you're Mitch Johnson, and you know that you're seeing a more traditional defense potentially in game three How do I get Weemby loose at the rim again? So did you see the same thing? And then what is your answer to that question if you're Mitch Johson? Fundamentally, it was a completely different basketball game for the spurs on offense they didn't do everything. It was craz game. Yeah. and like and I thought it was the red car from Degot because like, Cruso was the guy that had the most success against Wemby in game one and I thought Wendby looked way more comfortable against Jd, but then down the stretch of the game, we had those two ducins. and it was like, oh man, did Weby figure out Caruso to now? we just have to basically have him duck in from the Dunker spot. And so I thought it was the right move. I think also allows Caruso to do what he does best, which is just wreck havoc on the perimeter as a defender. And I thought that he played a big role in like the turnover forcing element of this game with their perimeter defense. And that to me is like one of the big parts of of having Hartenstein on Weemby is it just allows you to have your biggest most physical perimeter defenders deployed on these big physical guards, which I like Cruso frankly should be deployed on one of Castar Harper because of what they're giving up in size when they put him on Wy because now you have to use one of your smaller guards on one of those guys I think, you know, one of the most interesting Uh, u dynamics of the game As it progressed was the way that Mitch Johnson was trying to get Hartenstein off of Wendby through different types of screening actions. and I still think they're getting pretty good looks every time they run Double drag. so I'd like to see them keep doing that They broke out that like Sacramento Kings Deer and Fox like let's just set pinch screens on both sides of of castles He's dribbling up the floor and they did that at several points in the game at one point even beyond half court on a play that's That's one of the things I mean where like you can design your whole defense to get under screens against Steph Castle. They're going to have a bunch of different counters that make it hard. One of them is Wait, which screen is he using? Why is there whyy are there two screeners that have court What's happening? There's twenty two on the shot clock and I'm backpedaling and I'm already navigating screen. likeike it's just hard to do that. It's hard to get under. Like like I said the other day We've come a long way from All right, we're going to duck Rayjon Rondo screens like five times on the same possession at the foul line. Like it's just teams of offenses have gotten way smarter about counter about preventing you from doing that. No, absolutely. I liked the offball action. They got they got into this one in the fourth quarter and they got a great look out of it twice wide open three for Weemby and then under the basket cut for Steph Castle. but they basically just had you know, one of the other sppurs guards on the right wing with the ball have Wendby start with the or have Steph Castle start on the left wing and then they just had Weby come up and set a backs screen for him. And basically taking advantage of the idea that like Hartenstein doesn't want to leave Weenby. And the first time they did it, both Caruso and and Hartenstein stayed with Weby and Steh Castle got wide open underneath the basket. They ran it again late in the game and both Caruso and Hartenstein went with Steh and left W be wide open over there on the left wing. And so I think like a certain amount of just Partenstein's going to literally be like up underneath Wemb Like with two hands on him start using Wpy as a screener. I know it sounds crazy as a five, but like that's literally what Steph Curry's been doing his whole career. taking advantage of the face guarding and the hugging. A all by setting screens and just kind of taking advantage of the different openings that can come that way. I do I do think one of the most important dynamics is Weemby in pick and roll, especially getting a hit on the screen because that does force Hartenstein to detach because there was that little Right shoulder fade he hit like early third quarter. that kind of reminded me of the Ibed ISOos where you get a good screen. Hartenstein has to help on the in the drop That opens up Wemy in the pocket. Now he's separated from Hartenstein and can get into his bag a little bit And when you get into his bag. I know that shot you're talking about. It's a straight pic and roll. Hartenstein doesn't want to help, but he does a little bit because Wendby hammers him on the screen. I think in game three, I I see also Weby just like I'm going to start slipping screens real hard if you're if and get to the rim. And and he catches at the foul line And Harten seems back in front of him And you're like, okay, well, that's a win for the Thunder. Like he's not at the rim. And then he makes this like turnaround jump shot. You're like,, I still think it's kind of a win for the Thunder. But if this seven five guy is going to be making these MB slash dirk slash, whatever, turnar eighteen footer is like, okay, all right, Vic. Yeah, and like we mentioned earlier, sometimes he's just driving at him and putting something up on the glass and following it. It like than got for AJ Mitchell on the box out on that last one. That was one of the big plays in the game too because the sppurs were on a little bit of a run at that point. But I still came away from that game feeling like It's it's very much a get into your stuff run one of your more sophisticated pick and roll actions. and play advantage basketball off of that. you know, and there's there's reads that they miss and there's turnovers that they have like there there were times where theyd get Wemy separated because Hartenstein had to show and he'd slip and he'd have like Isaiah Joe or some smaller Thunder guuard on him and he'd be standing there with his arms up like begging for the basketball and they would just like miss the opportunity. and that's what's so funny with these windows with the thunder likeike the windows are there for a split second. likeike there was a they ran stack early in the game and Julian Champpenny was wide open at the top of the key and they missed him on the first read. They threw it to him a second later and they were able to close out and the advantage is gone. And so so much of it is like with this spurs team The possessions where they execute and they don't turn the basketball over and they identify the readason they make it They g a great shot But it's just so many times like and this is another part of having Caruso out on the perimeters. there's more size on the ball, more disruption on the ball. So those reads are tougher to make. But when they pressure the ball enough to force deflections to force those passes to be a little bit off like the Devin Vasll hammer action Steph Castle there's a little bit of a contest at the rim That forced him to kind of go wide with the pass and he threw it too far to Devin Visll's left and it funneled him behind the backboard and then Visll hits the corner of the backboard on the three. And so so much of it is like this is just how good OKC's defense is and there is that desperation because all their role players are playing manageable minute loads and they can go out there and play as hard as they can for the the entire stretch. but like I think we'll see we'll continue to see those double drags, those pinch screens. We'll see the back screens from Weby off the ball. do think and let me know what you think about this at because I was thinking The shot quality skyrockets when Hartenstein's off the floor because it creates a more similar dynamic to what we saw in game one And after he picked up Hartenstein's fourth foul on the loab They had to go back to to J Will And Wendby just fried Jwill just over and over again, just fried him one on one and trailing the play with Thes. If he can get Hartenstein off the floor, his job just gets so much easier So even though it might not necessarily be the best shot I wonder if they need to explore Wby ISOs against Hartenstein more. to try to just like Bring the whistle into the equation. I essentially like force the issue by like get a little bit of angle and then really try to force your way through Hartenstein's shoulder Maybe even get a little grifty if that's what you got to do. and just try to find a way to get Hart and sin off of floor and foul trouble I do think that's one of the counters. we'll see to Bs on Weemby traditional defenses. Set them some cross screens, get him in the posts on the move, like get get just play like a traditional big a little bit more in that sense and maybe that that has the same the same effect. Yeah, the chess match is going to be U super ning You mentioned the J Will the WB sequence in the third quarter. I mean, it's just It's so stark and so frightening, even as a neutral observer. when after holding any great player But WemB in particular, because it's both ends of the floor, in slight check, you realize three minutes into this sequence Oh, we've entered the point of the game where he's just going to single handedly dominate the game for like eight minutes. And that was the third quarter as the Spurs got back into the game where he makes a three. he has the drive offensive rebound. It was like, it was Weby saying, okay, you're taking away the rim touches and the paint touches I'll just go outside in now. I'll hit a three, I'll drive and I might miss, but I'm going to get the offense rebound with one hand and dunk it all in one motion. If you help, I'm going to drive and kick over here to Devin Visll for a corner three like I'll dominate the game this way And I'll still be dominating the game defensively and his rim protection, everybody knows, but he's just No one has ever been so good Eajan was really good at this, but it's a different level I call it like the spin pivot block where he's in one place and the ball moves and he spins back and blocks another player in a different place. He just makes these double rotations So fast and that was the third quarter. all that was happening, but The other thing you mentioned hugging him, like they're doing the thing and you see this every once in a while on great great bigig men, you see it against Yokich where There was there are pic and rollles, likeike it's just say Castle Weemby where Hardenstein does not leave Wemby at all. He just stays hugged on him. And there was one in the first half where Castle is going around the screen And Hardenstein is already signaling behind him. Hey, someone else has to come meet Castle at the rim because I'm not leaving this this seven five guy that's setting the screen. someomeone else has to be there. And you see this is fl on Shay, right? attempt to dunk. Yeah. Shay comes late and Steph tries to dunk on and and Shay eats a foul. And like I think if you know that that's coming for the sppurs, you can get a little bit more aggressive driving wise, but that's like the ultimate nod of respect. to a big man is You set a screen. We're just not even playing regular defense. We're just going to make everyone else do stuff My guys going to be hugged up on you. It's just the chess match here. and is awesome and I just can't wait to see the counters because and also like we're talking about how the spurs now that you know this is coming, how do you counter the this that was there in game two. like it's not like Mark Dagal is going to play the exact same way in game three as he did in game two just because that stuff worked in game two. He knows that Mitch Johnson is sitting over there scheming up counters and he's scheming up counters to the counters ahead of time. And Like we said, I mean this series, this is what you I mean minus the injuries which Again, if Harper and Fox let's just we don't'll learn today. If Harper and Fox are out or limited for the entire series. And Mitch Johnson, I think I saw a quote where he said, if this were the regular season, Fox would not be playing. He's trying to play s warorming up before games That's a little ominous, right? Because that suggests How good is he going to be If and when he plays like I don't think they can win three more games with those guys out or both out or both limited. for the series, but I mean, we'll see, we'll see what the JW thing is, But this is this is what you want. You want the great teams going up against each other and forcing them to dig deeper into their bags, finding stuff that they did not have to use against anybody else. And we've already seen it through two games. We've already seen so many schematic changes and so much desperation and so much urgency We just want five more and we want everyone to be healthy. Is that too much to ask afterfter all these injuries and and sixty five game limit stuff and whatever, like just give me five more of these and let everyone play Yeah, the injuries were the biggest bummer from last night because this series has just been some of the most fun I've had as a basketball fan in years. and I would just hate to see it end like this. And speaking of adjustments, by the way, Der and Fox coming back would just be a weird geometry shift to the series because he's a very different type of player than Castle and Harpery He's a spepeed attack guy who has more of a pull up jumphot to rely on. Like Steph Castle's been going to that kind of scissor drible step back three and he's take he's had a couple midrangers that have looked really nice that are kind of a glimpse into the future and you could tell how good he's going to be But Fox brings an entirely different element to it. We've seen so much Fx wimpy pick and roll in the previous two rounds. likeike that's going to be an element that returns Zach, I feel like we have to shout out Shake Elis Alexander. a little bit more than we have. Okay. I thought he I thought he was incredible last night They're This shot diet that he's dealing with with with this matchup. you could not construct a defense more well equipped to guard shay In terms of like we always have three dudes who are six five to six, seven that can slide their feet that have long arms on the perimeter that can switch on him. We are so athletic in rotation that we can be up in the gaps and make life difficult for him so that every time he makes a drive, he's trying to do a low gather or high gather to split the gap We're fast in rotation and we have the alien at the rim and his shot diet is just absurd. And for him to go what was a twelve for twenty four last night, thirty points night assist with one turnover. I thought he had he his secondary rim protection with his length at the basket is so valuable with this roster because of how small they have to play for chunks of this series and just how how physically limited they are in some of their position groups in terms of height. I just think like again I think the dead giveaway from the first two games of the series is no one's touching Weemy's ceiling Like what he did in that third quarter was so outrageous. What he did in game one Wendby ceiling is the highest in the league by a mile And you know, will we who we think is better at the end of the series? That remains to be seen. But I just thought I just thought last night was a guy who's one of the best not the best player in the League with his season completely on the line playing an incredible basketball game under incredibly difficult circstances and he deserves a boload of credit thirty eight really hard minutes and the one turnover is as important as any of the other stats in that stat line. That was an MVP level pererformance, obviously. and yeah, I mean, whenB And game one was just outrageous and game two for portions of it was just outrageous We shall see what happens going forward. I picked Thunder in seven. Um I don't feel better or worse, anything about that pick. What did What was your pick in the series I was sppurs in six. I felt a little bit better after game one because the big thing was just the guards. The guards just look so physically superior is something that I think portends well for them. But I think the thing that's kind of tilted me back towards OKC and feeling more like I did before the series, like just very slightly towards San Antonio is just that depth advantage for OKC. I really do think that that's something that will favor them over the course of the series We shall see. Let's quickly talk Nick's calavves The game T is tonight, so I don't wantan to spend more than just a few minutes on it, but Uh Game O was I was there and for the second straight Eastern confonference game one, I was at MSG sitting way up on the I think it's the Hyundai Bidge, now not the chase bridge anymore. just sitting there thinking, am I hallucinating? Is this really happening? Is this happening again A gigantic comeback except this time it's the inverse with the Nicks making the comeback and the Nicks getting the bounce on the rim that was not as great as the Halliburton bounce, but was still quite a bounce U And now we get game two are the calavves just totally demoralized and broken after one of the worst collapses I've ever seen in the NBA. And yes, like any collapse that happens over a short span of time, six to seven minutes, it's both things. It's the Nicks and Jelen Brunson. playing outrageously well. And it's the cals pooping all over themselves on national TV and Kenny Atkinson, who said after the game at his press conference Oh, no, we adjusted We put two on the ball against Brunson hunting James Harden and it's like Was I watching the same game as you were coaching? because I think yes, you did adjust and you just you did put two on the ball. wayay too late. And I understand the Nicks playing five shooters, which is something I talked about before the series, makes putting two on the ball a little riskier and opens up a little bit more like open threes and all that But you did it way too late and then your team did it poorly. likeike you you executed the rotations behind it poorly Just an absolutely embarrassing collapse for the cals. The cool thing about being there and Legler talked about this on the broadcast. I rewatched it a little bit yesterday is The crowd was ready for it. Like the crowd when it got to fifteen The crowd was ready. for a comeback to happen. It's because they're great fans. It's because this team has been an elite fourth quarter team and Brunson has been an elite fourth quarter player for a long time now And I also think it's because They were on the other end of it last year. They know what can happen in a short span of time. and it was as soon as it got to fifteen, I was riveted the whole time because I'm like this could this could happen again Um Give me like two things that you are watching for tonight in game two So obviously the big one on the defensive end of the floor is just how they choose to protect hardarden. and they tried a variety of different things. I like the two someome of their two in the ball sequences too were more like a drop coverage where they had Harden just kind of like hanging back, you know, five, ten feet behind the ball and then OGN and OBi would pop and they tried like rotating to OG, but then they just changed their spacing so that that close out was too far from the left corner and they were able to get back get the defense and rotation that way. I think regardless of what they choose, whether it's Switching and letting Harden defend or it's the drop that they they ran or it's double teaming. They just have to execute it better because like they had stops in every one of those looks in a variety of different ways. It was just when they executed it well, when they rotated well. when Harden sat in a defensive stance instead of just spatting at the basketball when he like sat in a defensive stance and slid his feet He was able to play Brunson into a tougher shot diet. Like so much of it is just execute it well, right? Like but I think they they need to come up with something that they're going to do. and be a little bit more keeyed in on the rotations. I thought there were several examples where U what the big the basic biggest example that I saw was the one where Moby rotated to the left wing and Allen rotated to the left corner But it looked like Mowy didn't trust that Allen was going to be there. So when Mowy closed out, he kind of stayed in the passing lane instead of getting in front of the ball and it allowed I think it was OG to drive off of the wing and get into the lane. So there's a certain amount of like they need to be on a string, know what they're doing and be prepared for that. On the other end of the floor, I just thought it was about attacking Kat instead of attacking Brunson. And some of this is on Sam Merrill because he had a couple of bad plays out of hedges where He caughted up on the wing and started the drive, but like didn't really commit to the drive and it kind of ended up in a tough shot And another one where he caught and held which is like the number one thing you can't do against a four on three situation and it did cause the advantage to go away When they attack Kat in the ball screens Puts the onus on Moby as a jump shooter in the pick and pop. and specifically against a loaded up defense because there's been no other movement. Whereas if Moby catches on the perimeter after you've attacked Brunson and the defense is in rotation a little bit, Then Moby can maybe drive a close out and there's bigger gaps for him to attack and maybe a little bit more rhythm in the jump shot when he does get it And so I think in general, like just being more diligent about attacking Brunson instead of attacking Kat because Kat is actually he's actually capable of making some plays in the drop. like he blocked Donoan Mitchell on a floater on one of those drop covered sequences. And so I think I think they attack the wrong guy on one end. Even when they got Bruunson, there were some ugly possessions like Harden settled for a pretty bad step back three on one of them And there was so much conversation about Donovan Mitchell not wanting the basketball. Can we give Vander Shamot some credit? I thought he did an incredible job on Donovan Mitchell one on one, just sliding his feet and keeping him in front and making it so that frankly, James was a better option. for some of those sequences down the stretch. Yeah, Samot was great. he changed the whole game U you mentioned goingoing at Brunson And they had a lot of success running hard and Shrrouder pic and rolls to Hunt Brunson. If I'm the Ks, I'm thinking of Do I Do I give that switch a little bit more? Not every time because Bruunson' get in foul trouble I don't James Harden can't get by people anymore. And so yeah, he might be able to shoot over Harden, but I'm over Brunson, but like I'm okay with that. And if you're setting the screens at half Court, like the cabs were a lot of times, like I'm just Why am I like pressing out there? just I'm just going to sit back and I'm going to make you run it two or three more times A couple of like, I'm glad you brought up Dononna the Mitch w the ball. A couple of like conventional a couple of like mass takes that I think were either not right or borderline not right Number one, I saw a lot of like, well, Harden's defense on Brunson was was pretty good. Brunson just made a lot of tough shots I would say I would say largely no to that. I think there were a couple of times when that was true and you mentioned like when Harden actually tries and sles his feetes all right I think there were several times where Brunson just straight up roasted him off the dribble and got the cs in rotation. And then I think shots that look hard to the naked eye are not hard shots for Jal and Brunson if he's comfortable against the guy guarding him. If he knows like one jab step is going to open up just the amount of space I need for this three or this two. and there was a mid ranger and a three that were like this For him, they're just not hard shots. Yeah, they're jumpers. They're not going to go in every time I thought he looked very comfortable against James Harden and that James Harden's defense was not good. Donvan Mitchell ran the ninth most pick and rolls. he has run in a game, regular season or playoffs this season in game one And I watched the fourth quarter and overt time two more times carefully. He had the ball a lot in both of those both of those periods of time He was like there was this idea that he was just standing over as a bystander and Harden was doing everything. and it just wasn't true. He missed a shot at the rim. He missed two shots at the rim one J Jared Allen put back. He ran a lot of Mitchell, Sam Merrill pick and' rolls which you mentioned, the Nicks defense on those plays was the reason I think that Sam Merrill hesitated when he caught the ball and the cav's bad defense on the exact equivalent play on the under of the floor is why Landriry Samick got a wide open three to tie the game. their rotations just weren't as good and weren't as early and weren't is on point as the next but Thon Mitchell had the ball quite a bit down the stretch and just did not do very much with it then kick it back to Evan Mobbley for Threes that one of which you made, but the Kicks are going to be happy with. justust one thing that I'll be watching is two things I'll be watching. N one You mentioned Kat in the pick and roll I was a little surprised how how aggressively the Nicks put two on the ball and blitched. I couldn' believe it in game one and When the cabs go small and put more shooting on the floor, I think that's a little dangerous, But the next rotations out of it were really, really good. So I'm interested to see how that battle emerges And real quickly on the other end I was not that surprised interestnterested in that the cavs seemed We saw a glimpsse of this in the regular season seemed more willing than you might expect to switch Jared Allen ono Jail in Brunson Even with Mitchell Robinson on the floor and that switch leaving Mitchell Robinson a giant advantage on the offensive glass And Jared Allen has actually done pretty well against Brunson on switches and it's been limited I wonder if we'll see it a little bit more and or if the Nicks will be ready for it. So those are those are two of the things I'll be like I picked Nixon six I feel good about Nixon S. And these are always games where You just wonder, how is the team that had that collapse going to respond? Is it going to break them or are they going to come out fired up? I expect a good effort from The castonightper boy was at a wild I mean, just Wild. just like and when it went to overtime it's like, obviously The Kicks are going to win. likeike there was no, there was no doubt about that, but Um And you'll be going live after after tonight Yeah going live after the game tonight. the only thing I would add is I thought that I did think the cavs switching as much as they did. connected a little bit to the Josh Hart problem and how much they like if we have Evan Mobbley roaming behind, we're effectively guarding the switch two on one because we can allow that onball defender to kind of overplay the jumper a little bit So I'll be really curious to see how quick Mike Brown, you know kind of pulls the plug on Hart and goes to Shamot. And I wonder if it ends up being the kind of thing where Hart ends up playing more with the bench groups and Shamot ends up playing more with their core lineups to try to confront that issue because I think it's just so much harder to guard Brunson on the switch when when you have another person roaming behind and just kind of congesting things. I think I think part of it too was the next legitimately looked rusty in the first half. L they looked like they were out of rhythm. They did get a lot of good looks. There were some they had like four or five of some of the worst brick threes I've seen all post season in that first half too. So like a certain amount of what success Cleveland had early, I felt was associated with rhythm too, but tight should be fun. I'll be really impressed to see Cleveland's like resolve becausecause that was about as brutal a loss as I can remember team having in the last few years attrocious onn a heart I wonder if this is going to be a Harttenstein situation where the dialogue is, well, has he been played off the floor? Are we going to see less of him? And actually the opposite happens in in the game because this happens now and then with Josh Hart peopleople like, well, they've just got to put more shooting on the floor. Josh Hart can't play. Josh Hard is clogging up the paint. And then the next game, Josh Hart reminds you why Mike Brown continues to start him and he does like points fourteen rebounds, seven assists, three steals and does a bunch of Josh Hart stuff He tends to respond that And I think one of the simple things that Nicks could do is he just spent too much time chilling out in the Dunker spot on some of their pos on a lot of their offenseive possessions. He's just not useful there. But we'll see Game two tonight. Jason Tim will have you right after the game. You'll go live on hoops tonight, YouTube channel, the volume. M listen, M watch, M whatever you do to digest your content Jason, it's a pleasure to have you on and we gotta do it again soon. This was a B blast actack. Thankks for having me. I'm looking forward. Let's talk about Payoni's disease, or PD It's not widely talked about And some men may feel reluctant to bring it up But it's more common than you'd think PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis, causing a curve or a bump during an erection that for some men, may lead to pain during intimacy and impact mental health A trusted urology specialist can help diagnose PD and walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment Visit talkaboutpD. com one hundred free events six thousand kids One mission Kids is using sports and evidence based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life's challenges and opportunities Up through august twenty twenty six, they're running one hundred free sessions for school and community based organizations near you Learn more at clinickids d. com slash one hundred KK. That's Clinic with a K Clinic Kids is registered by a one three nonprofit Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of And it turns out, it's more common than you'd think Pyony's disease, or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis This can cause a curve or a bump during an erection and for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self esteem and even withdraw from sexual activity and physical intimacy Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD The actual cause of PD isn't always known In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity The good news is PD is treatable If you notice a curve with a bump trusted urology specialists can help diagnose it. walk you through your options, including non surgical treatment To learn more about Pironi's disease, visit talkaboutpD d. com next time What a treat this is Fresh off year one of Amazon Prime Videos NBA content. I was a small part of it. Kevin Harlan was a large part of it And I just thought now that the NBA on Pime is over, next year Prime gets the conference finals, I think, but Fun time to reflect with one of the voices of the NBA and the voices of sports about That change in just life in general. Kevin Harlland, what a delight. How are you? I'm doing great. It's intimidating to be on with you, Zach because I've stopp and watched your things over the years You know how I feel about you and what you've meant to pro basketball and coverage of it it's interesting the world we're in now because We've had so many young, innovative, thoughtful people come up and cover this sport A the time, my first year was nineteen eighty two So where we are now is just incredible. and peopleeople like you, Wendy, like Tim, there's so many of them that have been at the forefront of really helping the game evolve. People understand it and explanations in back of it, which I think is even more important. You say things You are one person that explains what goes on. so There are a couple people that I must listen to, need to listen to and you're one of those people I I need to listen to you. Ke me up to date and I appreciate that So I like to hear. I appreciate it. We're just going to move right on. I don't like accepting compliments. so I'm going to move right on. Amazon You know, I went back and I listened to a lot of your old like classic calls that everybody loves and I wanted to and also shots that like I hadd kind of forgotten you were on this call and that call And you hear the partners that you've had over the years that it must feel like Not a revolving door, but you just you just got to adapt fast and like some guys you've probably worked with in two different locations, but this year it was a lot of Dwayne Wade and Candace Parker and on and on. like Is it hard to switch up constantly like that and Wh Who did you work Who was the who were the first timers with you this year? Like I got to get chemistry with these guys right off the bat John Wall was a first timer. That right We did a three man booth, three person booth with him Um Yeah a couple others along the way, but it kind of fluctuated. We were the First of all, I'm more part time at Amazon than I was at TNT at TNT I've been there thirty years and had the same partner, Reggie Miller for a long stretch began with Um, Hubie Brown and Dick Versace Oh my God back back in the day And then that evolved into Steve Kerr and Doc Rivers And um and Doug Collins, who to me has been And I've loved all of them. I've loved them all so much. I just had this wonderful stretch with Regge and I I enjoy him on so many levels Doug Collins reallyally and Huubie reallyally taught me the game, what to look for, how to make statistics work within a broadcast that it made sense to the viewer And why it made sense to them was more important interesteresting to me than what it meant to the viewer And after they would explain it and continuing to hammer it home, It became a part of the way that I look at the game now and I've been formed by their thoughts and their methods. So its it's It's been a great ride and I hope it continues. I just finished my thirty ninth year in the NBA But I've worked with some incredible people. U and that included this year. So I've been very, very fortunate in that regard. I've loved them all Yeah, the Reie the Reie partnership was a long one and you know, he's got these these insane games now Thunder Spurs and I almost hear your voice with his because I was going back and listening to some of the calls and so many of them our Reggie calls U I don't even know where to start. I have so many fun questions for you, but did you really make up the nickname Big ticket? How about that? We'll start there I did. againgain, as all these things kind of happen, it were just organically within a game a producer one time told me He said the best content from a broadcaster will always come from something that is not written down, pre plananned, on your boards But something that comes out as the game is going on and your feel and your interpretation of it And I've always kind of lived by those words. I was a fox producer who told me that back in the early nineties And I've always kind of adhered the way I approach a game to u losing myself and being so focused and so immersed and the substitutions in the schemes in the fllow and momentum It has it has served me well and it served more importantly as a compass as I go along these games. So Big ticket. I think he had just signed the contract And the gigantic one hundred twenty six million dollars deal. Um, but you could just sense that early on as Mcale and Flip Saunders would convey to me how important this kid wives So the timber walls when they made the the stretch at the time they felt. drafting him as they did as a teenager and kind of began that whole process We knew we had Willoughby back in the what seventies, eighties, and there was this long stretch where no one was drafted out of high school and then came Garnett and then came Kobe and the succession of great players. So Everything was kind of hinged on they did, how they developed and how they guided KG. And just for whatever reason along the way, just you just like like this is This is the big ticket likeike this is the guy, the whole organization is hanging their hat on. And that that's where that came from. And now people just call him ticket. like his friends call ticket. You mays it's like his name now. Yeah. I know it's it's you don't plan that stuff. If it happens great. if it doesn't, you just it's a It's a line in a game and you move by to the next play. So they just you talking about organic organic stuff that just comes out your brain just fires and things come out. Let's talk about some of your most famous lines The most famous one is LeBron James with no regard for human life on a dunk against the Celtics. Had you ever said that before? Where did that come from? I mean, it's just such a perfect line h And it just came out you're nice to say that it came from a James Bond movie And then it extended to our son's nerve football basketball games with me in his room When he was like four and five years old and he would dunk on me, you know, you'd dry Be like a running back in football, but the nerfball would be up here And he would just drive right into me and put the ball up And I said, haveave you no regard for human life, you know, and just joking around in his room But it came from a James Bond movie no when Bond is sitting at the table of a villain and as all good villains do, they tell you how they're going to rule the world in the process going to take to do it And it was in the underwater lair of Dr. No, and he's explained to Sean Connery, James Bond, what he's going to do. Bond responds by saying, Conre responds by saying clearly you have no regard for human life because you're going to kill all these people. So that it came from there, it extended to our little guy's bedroom and basketball games and then and then went on into the game and I may have said it once with Kobe and a dunk Maybe with KG, but but the LeBron one came over a raining defensive player of the year in Garnett around a pretty defensive minded Boston team, a defending champ in a playoff game that then swayed the outcome of that series at a big moment in that game in Cleveland And Doug Collins was with me and when LeBron went up Doug and I always kind of played off of his a physical reaction to a play. like if he jumped up or got excited or where I could hear it in his voice then that triggered me to to get even more jazzed about what has happened and Doug took his arm and rust it against my chest and bothoth of us back like he could not believe. what he just saw And that line just kind of came out literally as I was tilting backwards and falling into the lap of people in back of us in Cleveland Um so it's funny where these things come up but it was used there It's stuck. I've not used it since actuallyctually that was the last time we ever I think I ever used that line. I may have used it a couple times before that, but I retired it in ' zero seven, I guess it was or zero nine with with the Dunk by LeBron Honestly, if you had been on Thunder sppurs last night and you had broken it out, nineteen years later for Steph Castle's dunk. I was that an incredible dunk? Holy cow. I think that was worthy of a no regard for human life It had the feel of I was watching it with the sound down because I was with our family. We're doing something else and saw it and I said, Oh my God. It was kind of like the the The reaction to Wimby with the with the logo three the other night in game one like he just canannot believe some of the things you see in this game and these kids are just continuing to evolve and do these acrobatic, incredibly skillful things that just I would like to think in all the broadcaster, my brothers in the business that they they would have that same kind of feel for the moment and they have and they have Another one that I love this is just there's a YouTube clip that's just it's I think the title of the clip is Kevin Harlan classic calls as they become more and more insane or something like that. And one of them is I'd forgotten about this one. Steph Curry hits just some crazy cornered three And you go, Geometrically, that should not have happened. And I'm thinking It's so it's somehow you use the word geometrically, which is geometrically, like four or five syllables, whatever it is. It's a long word But it's also, you do it succinctly And it's just Like I don't know if anyone has ever used the word geometric in an ecstatic play by playgal before or since, but it's the exact right word. You get in and out of it fast and and it's perfect. Is that just another like it just popped into your head Yeah, that yes it is. U that was in a playoff game. I think in Houston where he hit that shot. Yeah Bounds and Dender right there in his grill and he was And he hit this shot, which we've all seen these curry shots, right? We've all seen LeBron Dunks.'ve all veen Jordan and Kobe and Dr. Jay and Magic. and we've seen all these people over the years do these things. I don't know why that word at that moment came upite frankly. It's. It was not I appreciate you liking it. I really do Um But no, I don't know, but In fact, a lot of things I'll say during a game I quickly forget because you're ont to the next place And you're're again, you're so focused on what's happened. you don't even realize this stuff And then and then it comes out afterwards we'll be driving back to the hotel with our crew And and and they're younger than me and they're on social media and they're looking to oh, people like this or they' all of a sudden just kind of hit the playay thing and play the clip and go Yes I don't know, I don't know Do you have like a landmark example of that? Like boy, I didn't even realize I said that and it became like a thing U with Reggie a lot that happened because he would he would he would look at it going back to the hotel. We get stuck in traffic like everybody does U in NFL games, there have been a couple of drunks that have gone on the field and I've done the play by play of that. And and and that's kind of happened. I truly did not even give it a second thought. When it happened and moved on with the game And then this stuff comes up. My wife always when I come off the road and I get home. The first thing she says is that, hey, it's great to see you. Hey, Welcome home. it's Did you say anything that you're going to lose your job? I said, I don't know. Sometimes I say stuff I don't even know I'm saying But I am guided by that principle of notot writing things down, pre planned stuff Um Clearly, I know what what the game means a game seven Championship game of Super Bowl. I mean, I realize that. And in my mind, I'm prepared to try to, you know, put into some context of what the wind means, what it signifies. I mean, I've got that Stared. But not but not the every play or spectacular play type of saying or twist of word or something like that. don't I don't go down that road. For people who don't know the football clip I This became so famous that I knew it even as a non football fan drunk It's I think Jeff Fisher is coaching because the cameraas on Jeff Fisher the whole time. I don't what Titans. I don't know which team iss coaching. Rams one of themam and and a drunk runs on the field and they don't show these people anymore because they don't want to give them publicity, but he's on the field for quite some time. And you just there's no There's no dead time where you figure out what to do and then you do it. You just immediately go into calling it like it's the game He's on the fifty. He's on the forty. He's bare chested. He has no shirt on. He's at the thirty and it's just so Deadpan funny and it just keeps going and here comes security. all there do. They've got him now and it just it just And I remember I read somewhere where you thought I said this and like, I didn't think are they going to hate it? Are they not going to hate it? Am I going to get in trouble for it? And another thing like that was this cracked me up There was a, I don't know if you remember this, but it's similar in that I wonder if you thought Afterwards like, oh, no, did I annoy a sponsor or something There's a Carmax ad that comes on during a game And they mixed the copy up. of a CarmX ad And it's an ad for somebody's chicken tenders. and you start reading the ad and it's for Carmax and then it goes into chicken teenders and you just there's this prolonged perire like, Wait a minute here Am I getting chicken tenders with the car? Are they in the car? Is the car going to smell of chicken tenders? And it just you just go with it and it sometimes you just got to go with. But I wondered watching that if you thought, oh oh, Carmax is going to be pissed at me or the teenders company, whichever one it is going to be pissed to me, but it's what else are you supposed to do? They screw up the copy Yeah, they did. and u No, I think about that afterwards a lot. I don't necessarily think about it during When I'm reading it You know, it's funny. I was at Turner for thirty years, thirty years at TNT and had many Reads, promos, commercials to do like that And if one was kind of weirdly written fun, you know, foken fun at themselves or whatever the copy was We'd react to it, you know, just as having fun as probably anybody's sitting at their couch on their couch at home might have and Yeah, that was that was one with the copy got mixed up So I think about no one had ever said anything to me. In that weird, like in thirty years probably did re or for those a season where copy was weird or it didn't mix or they had the wrong graphic up We were reading about a zoo and they showed You know, a movie well, whatever like whatever it would have been and and I've always kind of thought, you know, if they had a problem with it, they probably would have said something I don't think Marv did it. I don't think Vern Lunquist did it or Stockton did it So it wasn't like I was trying to fall into place. I guess I was young and dumb and just began doing it and never really gave it a second thought. If the copy was weird or the thing was didn't make any sense or I read it wrong. I'd you know, have fun with it. and that's That's kind of what happened. We were great. And and I've kind of done the same thing at Amazon and They've never said it mayaybe they are saying stuff and they just haven't gotten it to me yet. I don't think so. And one of the interesting thing, I was going back and reading a bunch of interviews you had done And you talked about how particularly early in your career when you were doing Timber Wolves games is the play by playay voice of the Timber Wolves. You got some flack or criticism, I guess for. Well, is he too flamboyant Is he too is he yelling and screaming too much? Is it too loud? all the time. And your response to that was number one And I thought about Eric Collins with the hornets when you said this part of it, which is, hey, we were a young notothing team expansion team just trying to kind of get on the map. So it seemed like you were saying like, I'm going to err on the side of just being kind of big and boisterous because we have to We have to get publicity, we have to get on the map, but also like You just and this reminded me, I've had Eric Collins on the podcast and we've talked about this you just have to be you. You can'ntot be you. And if that's and if that's who you are and how you call the games Authenticity is going to win out over everything else in the end and you just have sort of have to ignore whatever small minority of people think that and just and just be you like and it's funny, like I never thought of you as over emotional or over exuberant. I always thought of you as like properly exuberate your court side watching crazy NBA playoff games. That's sort of what I want out of an announcer And Eric Collins, he has to dial it down a little bit when he goes from the Hornets proadcast to prime broadcasts, and that's appropriate, but I want him to be him too. And I just it was just I wonder if you ever even cared about people saying that about your broadcasts Well, you know, as a local broadcaster, there's a completely different feel. and that becomes the difference is when you're is when your one of our grandkids just walked in That' what they do. Yeah, I know it. Yeah. They don't care what you're doing. So as a local broadcaster, it's a different feel. and at the time, it was an expansion team and you're trying to sell the sport And so I would get as excited for Jordan and for All the different great players that the Timberwolves in those very lean years would face as I did for the Wolves. And then, you know, you start getting JR. Ridder and you start getting some players that had a little bit of traction KG clearly and others Googleata Um, you know, there were some fun players along the way And and they were still kind of losing, but you could sense that, okay, event, you know, Christian Later was on the team for a while. So you had all these all these, you know, players, but it was always the opposing team that was really reallyally doing, you know, Berkeley with Philadelphia then then with Houston and Phoenix and So so we had fun with that and just tried to sell the the greatness of the game You know, I is a constant thing that swirls in my mind about How much, you know, do you push the meter And and I've always thought of that. And I guess I just feel like I think the days in our business of trying to be the Edward R. Murrow of a game are probably doesn't resonate anymore Um, peoplee need to find, you know, some electricity, I think and and warranted, not just manufactured, but like when it really matters And I guess I'm such a fan. I love the game. I love collollege Nro and certainly love pro football But the NBA is full of such Circus like, unbelievable. Did you just see what happened type of moments I don't know how If you're a fan of the game, you can have some just real emotion Pour out of you Again, I've been kind of guided by that principle. I mean, if I see a pass to like maybe the average fan that doesn't realize how hard It was with with what was surrounding the ball handler and where we got that ball at the split second it had to be there play to develop and happen. I just find that like art. I just I just love I love coaches when they make a move that you can see And our analysts will explain I love a great defensive play. like I love these things that happen in the game And and I think sometimes you've got to make them aware. you know, people say, how could you get so excited in the first quarter for a game that goes four quarters and may have another two hours left And my answer is, An incredible play needs to be appreciated at any time. Clearly it has more effect late in a game because it has more of an impact on the outcome of the game great dunk or a great, I'm not talking just a two handed flush inside by Wemby or whoever. But I'm talking about a well time orchestrated guy flying, here's the pass deelivered perfectly executed light These things Like just always continue to take my breath away. And I'm not going to apologize to anyone for getting too excited in the first or second quarter of a game that that of a play that has that kind of momentous feel. I guess I'm going by my heart and what my yearsars Watching the game of taught me, and I'm kind of relying on that Well, and also at the end of games, you have to be cognizant of U yeah, this is fun, but these things now have massive stakes to them and you have to encapsulate the stakes appropriately and sometimes being funny is not or being boisterous is not the appropriate that to wit One of my favorite calls of your entire career, and boy have you called some iconic crazy shots is the Kawi shot in twenty nineteen Raptors Sixers and I rewatched it and he goes up to shoot And you say Is this the dagger And then Silence. Silence as the ball's in the air Silence as the ball is out the rim. one time, two time, three time, four time. shot goes in And you and Reggie together just kind of screaming And then more silence, more silence, three, four seconds of silence. the atmosphere set in And then somethingomething like Game, series. Toronto, but that's silence as the ball is hanging up in the air, not just on the rim, but the whole time Again, you can't calculate this, you can't plan for it. But I wonder if you remember in that moment feeling the need to say something, the want to say something, how long is this going to persist at the rim? but it's The silence is perfect and the reaction, it's not a word. it's just the noise is exactly what I want to hear as as is exactly what I'm doing watching the game Well, you are too kind and I coming from you. I appreciate that. It was I was actually working with Greg Anthony. I That's right. wasreg Anthony. That's right Greg was there and just before that, you know, Butler had gone in for Philadelphia and they had a miraculous play and got it to where it was when the inbound came in from the Raptors And u It is probably I do think in those moments late in the game, that's where the silence really pays off. And we had a talented director that night Um and and the the cutting of the shots. I think they took a shot outside building where there was those massive, you know, playoff fan areas And they were going ballistic Sometimes in the arena, can't get the feel because everyone is in a stationary You know, this is my seat. this is like outside where it's like a big dance party Um the animated fan and the and the and the celebration of that play. really comes out. So the person that cut that the inside, got the guy on the floor in the corner got the outside reaction And then and then the noise was just such It was like a symphony. and if a picture says a thousand words Sometimes, you know, with that kind of outcome that cllinch the series led them on You don't have to say anything and that was kind of my feeling at that moment. there there are moments when that works. There are other moments when it doesn't. You don't do it in the first quarter, probably don't do it in the first half. But if there's a game changing sway that really signifies, oh my, this is momentous U It does fit. A lot of broadcasters do it. I did it there It worked out game seven. I think it was the only, if I'm not mistaken and Zach, you know this' more than me I don't know. it may have been the only game winning Buzzer beating, game seven, series deciding shot in playoff history. I'd have to go back and look seemeems to me like I read that at the time That had never happened in a game seven Um and maybe it's but but it was a game seven Last second sh buzzer beating game like that's It had all those components. So When you've got something like that, you don't have to be a rocket sciist to figure out what that shot meant how For curious, it was when it was taken And and then the weird ending result with the bounces and finally dropping through in the reaction because the crowd In that building I think at that time, it was called the Air Canada Center. They still be it went it went silent. like there were just with every bounce. you you could feel it Like inside, as you watched it and the silence was like Definite and then it happened and it was like, o my gosh. What a play against Ibede against Butler Simmons was on that teams for Philly. So h It was fun and you're nice to mention it because that was a great I felt privileged to be there for that moment in that shot U if that's not the most iconic Bounce on the rim in the modern television era It's another one that you called, which is Tyrees Halliburton last year in game one against the Nicks, a game I was at as well and Reggie of course is next to you, the ultimate pacer, the ultimate Nicks villain is next to you for that shot And that hung up in the air even longer. And you could tell from my angle away up in the rafters from TV that it's got a chance when it's falling, that it might go in. And so you have a similar just silence. You're not going to narrate it. It's going to go in or it's not going to go in. And similarly It's just a scream with you and Reggie's laughing. Reggie just starts cackling, which which again is perfect. But you also had the moment and you realize it pretty fast of Wait a second Is the game over? is the game not over? Is it a two or is it a three? And so I you, I don't know if you were like trying to figure out because you don't you don't announce that the game is over. You never you never react as if the game is over. You react with exuberance, but But that's a moment of confusion that reminds me a little bit of and Mike Green has already gone on Lbatard and talked about this. his fame now already famous unbang from game one, similar game Cabs Nicks, Sam Mers game winning three goes in and out and no and I was texting with Mike yesterday that I'll just share that and he said something similar on Lebatar. He was like, well, I make mistakes. you all make mistakes. And I told him even before he went on Lebatar I don't think that's a mistake. I think that's the exact authentic in the moment reaction that I want as a fan because it's in and then it's out and you go Bang no. and it's so the transition from that the proto bang to know is so smooth. It's almost like it's a catchphrase that Mike Green would use and it's perfect, but you had a similar moment on that shot of like Is the game over? Is the game not over? and like what an I don't even know what you're thinking at. Reggie's laughing the crowd's going crazy. likeike that iss another one. that's I don't know what you're thinking in that moment or how you handle it. Well, I was not I'm trying to go back and remember, but I but, you know, was he on the line? Was he outside? Was he was he inside the arc or whatever Um, was going through my mind And right, yeah, you and you don't want to I mean, it was an incredible shot and the fact that it went in and had the bounce high, very high One of the highest bounces I can recall and then boy, I went right right through the cylinder. It was one of those You remember and And that was also a game, you know game one in the garden, like it was not like, holy cow Like this had this had it was monumental with the way they were hitting shots in that game anyway. So yeah, there are those moments, but I think it's like what like a fan would do and knowing Mike the way I do and we' we goodood friends Um He is such a fan. I I mean, I just know how much he loves the game. likeike I don't know that I've ever run into anyone actually quite frankly in the NBA that loves every aspect of this game And he's so understanding and so empathetic and he just has all these qualities that is a viewer of a game that I want to hear in my broadcaster and he always He always conveys that and just one of the thousandousands of reasons why He's probably the best we've ever had along with Marv in the NBA. Andh and so I I I know that feeling that we had another one like that too Zach and game Six couple years ago Miami, Boston And and White goes in at the buzzer puts up the layamp and the officials who I immediately look forward because it's hard to that and look at the clock and say, is my timing off? Is the light off? Is the buzz But I'm looking at the officials and I saw their reaction And they didn't know And so he goes in and it was just it was eyelash how close it was clearly But he got it to go and but there was a stop in and I looked at the benches and I get a reaction sometime with these players and their reaction and Both benches didn't know what had happened. So there are those moments Uh, when you're broadcasting, where there's always his famous thing and in doubt lay out. And so there's a little bit of doubt there, like You've got to call the play And then you've got to say, but did the shot go in at the buzzer and they're going to take a look, but they had not ruled it yet. So there's always that pause So I get what Mike's going through. We've all been through it and And you just hope your instincts are clear and concise for the viewer that that, you know, you're you're're you're trying to put it together in real time. It's a live broadcast. There's no chance there to sit back as you're writing and re type it or whatever and make it look good, what happened You're calling it as a broadcaster as it's unfolding. it can be very challenging and Mike and I have talked about that. We've all all of us have gone through moments where There was a little bit of uncertainty What is a game or a moment or a shot or a play that you wish you had called that that was someone else's game and you watched it or you've thought about it like, man, I wish I was on that game. That would have been so fun Yeah, they they're um That's a good question. I I guess I kind of feel like I've had at one time or another You know, I called u Michael Jordan from his fourth game rookie year Um, and then I didn't call the NBA for about four years because the kings left to go to Sacramento And That's when I got in the NFL But I called Jordan from his fourth game. is a pro with the bulls They played in Kansas City against the Kings. Larry Brown had his whole J Hawk team, by the way, in the stands because of the North Carolina connection. they all came down after the game after I Inview Jordan U, and Mark Turgen of all P people goes, what was it like being by George? likeike Is he thought? Is he cooler than you thought and called Jordan through his days with the wizards called every season of LeBron and Kobe So I've been So blessed to see great shots Heroic plays. Steph Curry now I've called him. fromr his rooookie year through these years in his career, called his four thousand R pointint shot made Um, have been there, you know, I mean, I've not I've not done NBA championships. But I would say this kind of extending your thought You know, Mike and myself and Ian We're all kind of the same age people, you know, and in and around sixty little bit of less, little bit more So someone asked me one time, you know, how does it feel that you'll never call an NBA Final And my response was, I think it was Richard Dich I was talking to. I say, you know, my response to that would be because Mike has been this friend in the NBA for thirty plus years. And I'll speak for everybody of our age group I kind of feel like we're there call on the finals because Mike is such a leading voice for our group of broadcasters. He's covered the succession of finals that will never be equal again, I don't think in the industry So I feel like I'm right in back of them. Um enjoying the moment with him as his voice. is chronicling these great finals that we've had a chance to watch big shots Ray Allen or whoever, you know, the blocked by LeBron, just all these wonderful moments over the years. So I kind of feel like evenven though I've done conference finals clearly, but We willll never do a NBA final and always kind of feel like, you know I feel like I've been with him on that journey and enjoy so much that he is the one representing are of broadcasters in the league Uh so I kind of feel like I've P part of it from afar and lived it through his eyes and voice and friendship. and I've always loved Um watching him be the flagship voice. h obviously Well, I'm just saying like there have been like mini broadcast swaps before a little like kind not stunts, but you know what I mean? We're like I we'll invite this guy ono this broadcast and may maybe in the future there's a Kevin Harlan finals like all right, let's bring him on. you know, it's time. Um Who knows? I do have as a as a, well, I haven't written in a while, but as a writer I do have to give you credit Um For this, and I want to ask you about it I mean all the a lot of the best announcers they go deep into the saurus, right? And sometimes it's You feel like are they overdo it? Are they trying too hard? You have more you don't have that many, but you have some pet phrases for a guy like knifing his way into the lane He machetes his way in He trundles his way in I'm not sure I'm probably missing a couple But like machetes is such a vivid one because you picture in the movies like Indiana Jones going through a jungle or something like that How do you land on these? has there been one you've used that were like, oh, that didn't work. That's too violent or that's too off color or we can't use that one. L and I'm probably forgetting some of them machetes and trundles are the ones that that pops into my head first Well, I love words and and again, you hope that during the game, that right word is there And you're kind to mention that U and some of this is carry over for my NFL broadcasting too because there's so many You know, running back to try to gouge their way over the left guard for a g of feer O or they bore their way or whatever. The other night I was doing a pistons Orlando playoff game. And our view, courtside was of a guy was toobias Harrison. I don't know if that is correct or not, but he came in may have been Kayed. came in. and went inside paint but with authority. like he went in Like just unabashed and And I said, use the word Unflinchingly, And because from my viewpoint, that was the word that popped up because he did not blink. He just ramrodded his way right Ramrod. That's another one. Ramrod is another one. That's another Harlland special. I don't know that I've ever written written down the word Ramrod I don't know that I will ever say the word Ramrod outside the context of this conversation I'm not even sure I know what a ram rod is or what. I'm not sure. It just sounds like what a guy does, he's gonna ram it inside like that And that's kind of where that probably came from But I said unflinchingly goes down the lane And I was working with Jim Jackson. And I took off the headset and said, I have never that we and it was a commercial pretty quick after And I said I don't think I've ever in my life just talking and just regular talking If ever used the word unflinchingly before. So I again, I read a lot and so maybe it comes from that I will tell you this And and I'm not sure. I I ad my there are some people that in my mind, Zach that I hear their voices when I was a kid I used to try to emulate Fesnda and Summerall and Jim Simpson and Scott Don Cicky and all these Dick Stockton like all these great voices and I've so got them in my head And I don't sound like any of them But one guy who I listen to a lot, I've not done NHL hockey was Emk Oh my God. and Eiric would use a lot of these words And I've watched them since the early two thousands in various ways. mayaybe even before that But my dad was a journalism major at Marquette. So he he was a writer and he He always valued word usage and He would always tell me, he said, you know, when you're doing radio U You said the word choice you use paint a whole picture, one word, can paint like a whole picture of what happened on that plate So I always kind of took that to heart. mayaybe just I've got this catalog in my mind where these words come up when they when they come up, but Um, yeah, though I don't know I don't know where they come from. I don't know how it comes out probably best not knowing that because If I looked at it too you know, intricately, Id probably begin to overthink it and it wouldn't come out because in play by play, that stuff has got to be it's got to come out. You cannot think. about you know, how that all transpires. So Um, but I do appreciate someone like you, a writer at heart has come out and and I'm glad that that because I've not had a lot of people that have said it. And because no one's ever said it, I've never really thought about it do going back watching my games'll think That word work there, that word may, I don't know. I mean, there's some words that do and some that don't You use them and you move on because there's so many words that are used course in a broadcast. Well, now you've given me a goal for the next forty to eight hours, which is I want to use the word unflinchingly. I want to say it out loud. And somehow like I don't know if you read Wright Thompson's big story. he wrote about Steve Kerr's decision to come back as. I' got it pegged. I have not read it yet, but I've got it pegged. So one of the anecdotes in there is that Steve Kert I guess in press conferences scattered throughout the year basically recited a Taylor Swift song lyric by lyric. He would sprinkle lyrics into one answer, one answer. and noobbody realized it because obviously who's going to realize it. So now this is I want to I'm just trying to think how would I use Unflinchingly. It's like could my wife be like, Hey, did you cook dinner ton? I like, I unfinchingly dice the ones. You know, just I didn't bat an eye. I went right into it. I grabbed the pan. I had the work. You know, the the thing and again, it's got to be one of those plays and the best plays sometometimes for that kind of description are ones that unfold. like like I was saying, I was talking to a journalism class the other day. And I said, you know, it's interesting. You always hear ball players talk about um, when when when the pitch comes in youre you're in such a zone and you're in such a a sweet spot of your focus and concentration that you can literally see the rotation of the ball in the seams on the ball George Brett would say that all the time when he was at the height of his powers. and you hear Brady talk about when he would drop back in quarterback, the great ones always say things were in slow motion, mananning would say I could see the cross before the guy made the cut. And I could see the move in the stem of the route before it was even performed in broadcasting, there is a lot of that. Um when your voice is Um, you're confident in it because you're not battling a cold or sniffles or allergies or whatever. O horse Um and your voice is strong. It does lead, I think, at least for me a confidence And that's okay. That's one thing I don't have to worry about now. Now it's about pacing and periods and structure and cadence and things like that. And on that unflinching not to get too deep into the weeds here. But when that guy made the move and our angle watching the you could just sense that even though he was outside the free throw lane and almost more of the circle and began to cut, swerve and then dive. He went in there said, I'm getting that rim regardless of what's in my way, who's in my way? how many are in my way And that made it Um that's, I guess where that word came in. He he he with with bravado went in there and did not flinch at whatever was going to be in the way, he went in there and and made the play. And I guess that's That's that's the kind of thing you think when you're going slow enough and you're in that zone And things are in your mind's eye with the vocal, you know, exertion When it happens like that those words seem to really erupt, I guess. Well that way describing it. I'm going to unflinchingly get through the crowds at Madison Square Garden today to get to my seat and watch people Ramrod and Trundle and Machete into the lane Kevin Harlan, you're the best. This is enjoy. We're going to have to do this again when the NBA starts up next season. Your coverage on Amazon It was awesome and it's great to have you on We'll have to do it again. This has been a delight. Thank you for making some time. I admire you greatly, Zack. I'm privileged to be onond. Thank you so much, a lot of fun and enjoy the game tonight of the Gard. All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Low Show. I'm headed over to Madison Square Garden soon, game two Nicks Cabs. what the hell will happen? who the hell knows? Thank you to Jason Tim from hoo tonight hoops tonight for coming on Gott to watch his content, listen to his content. He's awesome. If you want to know what happened in the game, Jason is one of your guys and thanks to the legend Kevin Harlan for being fun and being a good sport with all my silly questions. Thanks as always to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching. The Zag Los show, we will be back For a special Saturday episode because why not? It's the playoffs. We're gonna do an instant reaction to Nick Calvs game three because I haven't covered that series as closely as the West Finals due to just the schedule of my podcast versus the schedule of the series. So Saturday we'll do a mini pod reacting to that game. Listen in for that and thanks to everybody for listening and watching Zach Glow Show. See you soon