Knicks Championship Run and Closing

This episode is brought to you by service Now. Look, I have my dream job. I get to watch basketball, think about basketball, talk about basketball, but even dream jobs have the stuff that nobody dreamed about, the busy work that gets in the way of the actual work. ServiceNs AI specialists tackle that work, requests handled, cases closed, the whole thing done. So you have more time for the work you actually want to do. For me, that's breaking down SGA film whenever I want and then talking about it into a microphone To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit serviceNow. com This episode is brought to you by eBay I've been hearing people talking about selling on ebate a lot lately. and honestly, I get it. We all have stuff that no longer fits our lives. And from what I hear Selling on eBay is actually really easy. J snap a few photos, write a description, set your price. Suddenly, the stuff that's just been sitting around is in front of millions of buyers already searching for what's next. Find what you love, se what you don't on eBay showow It's Fray Yanasis is going gonna to get traded probably at some point. We don't know when and just screw it. Let's do a podcast anyway and make it all draft Jonathan Givvoni from Draft Express, the best in the business. He knows everything that's going on. He's seen all these players from when they were little pups learning how to play basketball at a high level. He gives us all the latest on. who is Washington taking it number one? Is it actually going to be Darren Peterson? Does anybody actually know? What are the ripple effects of that pig going down to two three, four and then the morass From five to eighteen teams trying to trade up, trade down, trade in, trade out all these guards whoo are the clippers taking? What are the nets going to do? They just took a billion guards. Are they going to trade down the kings? do they really want a cuff that badly that they're going to trade up the Hawks at eight is their pick and play is the warriors pick and play, The Thunder have two picks. The Grizzlies have two picks in the top eighteen. What are all those teams going to do? We get into all of it. I've actually watched some college basketball in the last few days. I'm learning a little bit. We talk about some of my hot takes from those And just sort of everything that's going to happen in the draft. And yes, we talk Yanis, the latest on Yanis. do we still expect to trade before the draft and then some finals takes that I don't like and my most interesting off season teams that aren't at the top of the drive or in the honest Vortex. justust other teams I'm watching. that's all coming up onn the Zach Low show show It's Friday morning. I wasn't actually going to do a show today because we're all on honest spots. You could get traded anyt time, but you know what? Screw it. I'm not letting this hold up my business. The draft is in what four days or something crazy like that There's a lot of intrigue. there's a lot of movement. Let's just have fun. If Yonis gets traded tonight, we'll do another pod. Jonathan Gavvoni, Draft Express Just one of one in terms of draft intntel and analysis, how are you doing? I'm doing great, Zach. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm on Yanis swatch as the whole league is. We all have been. It's been a while now Zach. Can we hear those slives Years I've waited so long for this to happen. I'm like the old lady in Titanic at this point. How mad will you be if it doesn't happen on draft night? No, I don't get mad. I don't get mad because one of the things I've realized in my old age of doing this job I can't control these things. I can't I can't like I can't they're not going to happen conveniently to my podcast or personal schedule. I can't control how long series go in the playoffs and how much I have to travel and who plays. You just have to just just let it happen. Just got to let it happen to you And look, I have a busy This is this is the most subopptimal possible sequence of eents. So normally the draft is on a Thursday, right? Like Thursday, Friday has been the cadence of the draft forever. So I'm going to reveal this. This is a first is a scoop on the Zach Low S show. Um Several months ago, the New York Mets approached me about a number of things. I do this Mets cororner segment on the podcast that they have liked m because I'm just a crazy fan. They're like, hey Among the things is like, would you want to throw out the first pitch on june twenty second And I was like, hell, yeah, june twenty second, Monday before the draft, a little bit of a hot zone, but it'll be fine. It'll be great. And then lo and behold, we can time that to stay overnight as a family in Queens fly out the next day to watch to Toronto to watch Croatia play in the World Cup. probably two days before the draft. We're getting in the hotzone, but you know, whatever. likeike it's World Cup's. And now that's the night before the draft. I will be throwing out the first pitch in City field weather permitting, the weather doesn't look great because I'm freaking cursed and the Mets are cursed. And then I'm flying to Toronto He can get traded while I'm screaming in what is now a must win game after a disappointing first game for And you know what, Cavvoni? There's just nothing I can do about it because he's either going to get traded or he's not, but will I get angry? No. I will say before we get into the draft draft I still expect him to I would still bet on him. I want to use that language getting traded before the draft. I think everyone kind of wants this to happen My favorite bit of reporting in the last week has been U sources say Milwaukee doesn't love Miami's offer. Really? Is that is that a revelation? because if they love Miami's offer, I think he'd be on Miami and would have been on Miami like two months ago Miami is in it, right? I think Boston is in it to some degree, the degree I'm not entirely sure what it is, but they're in it I wouldn't even rule out like a mystery team still kind of lurking on the fringes and obviously all of this is a lot of it anyways is contingent on where Yanis is going to be willing to indicate that he will sign an extension October I still think it happens before the draft. If only because you know, Milwaukee will want a first round pick in this draft. A lot of teams, you can probably speak to this. are trying to get an extra bite at the Ale in like the middle of the lottery because people just love this draft U and they'll want to, you know, they'll want to have control of another pick, but it wouldn't it wouldn't shock me if it goes past the draft, but I would still bet on it happening before the draft. What about you Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking back to the trade deadline when we all thought Janis was going to be traded and then he wasn't. And yeah, I followed up with some of the teams that were involved and and they said, listen, they played this brilliantly. They wanted to see everybody's best offer. They made us all feel like this is happening any second now. You better get your best offer in They waited till the very last second and they kind of dangled them in front of our faces. and then they pulled the rug out and now they know what our best offer is. And now they're going to do this again, you know? And so they're going to, you know, they're going to take this ono the clock and I mean like is it is it going is it going to happen here like, you know, with the thirteenth pick or whatever that like that's when Nonest gets Gs traded, I'm not sure, but they obviously like this is a big move for them and you only get to do this once. So they're going to take their sweet time with it Yeah, I think what's happening here is very simple. The draft is still four days away. Miami's offer is what it is. We can assume it's a combination of Tyler Hero. U filler salary attached to decent intriguing young players. I would guess Co where go out further No like they could like sweeten the pie. Well this is what I'm saying L we want. We know there's there's an offer like that with picks and number thirteen and they can trade more future picks on top of that. I'm sure Milwaukee's like cool That's our floor We're going to sniff around and at the very least or we're going to act like we're sniffing around or both and hope to get one more extra thing out of you. And by the way, A couple other notes on this. The Rogier thing falling away as salary filler for Miami is a really is a really big deal because it actually strengthens their offer and weakens their ability to not strengthen their own offer in a lot of ways. Um And there are still, I think, mechanisms where I think Hio has to be on the trade And I actually think Milwaukee, I've heard Milwaukee could flip hero for a decent like more draft equity so that they could frame this is like we get you know, five first round picks in the deal or something like that. I don't I'm not going to speculate on where, but I think there are going to be deals available for hero if that's the way Milwaukee wants to go I do think Miami has constructions of the trade where Wiggins and they have a team option on him or is a player option. I can't remember it some kind of option. And u And Norm Powell, who's an unrestricted free agent. They have his Berg rights are both still on the heat. I think that's like their ideal scenarios att least keep those two midsized to semi high salaries on the team as talent as players around Bam. and Yonis and whatever is left over There's still the safe beted I but I am't prepared for anything and I'm also prepared I'm also prepared I want to jinx myself Givvoni I'm going from the mound at City field. I'm not doing the thing that Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson did where they now they have to worry about injuring themselves, but they went from in front of the mound. most I went to my local high school. Th the tarp off the mound and practiced from the mound because I'm going to try. I'm going to try to do it. Why not? This is not I'm never going to do this again. I'm going to go out swinging Hope you do a better job than our boy Victor did Dude, there's been some bad first pitches in the histsory of first pitches and here's what I love set pretty low for you Here's what I don't need from my friends and family. I don't need people sending me fifty cent and Gail King and everyone who fucked up the first pitch. I don't need it in my head. all right? Just like stop doing that. It's not helpful U An any parting thoughts on the honest thing Um I don't know. I hope it happens. you know, I'm betting on. I'm imagine it's going to end up being Miami, you know, like just because they where do you want him and that's where Jonest wants to be. and he's got a big say in this, you know? And so if you're going to give up all of that, you better know that you're going to keep him. And so that's it feels like there, you know, that's where we're all kind of expecting him to end up. And that's that's my guess where this goes Okay, let's start at the top of the draft where Washington controls the process U Now there's all this reporting. Mark Stein reported that Washington is uncertain is debating between Peterson and Deabana Um Jeremy Wu, your old colleague at ESPN just changed his mock draft fifteen minutes ago to put Peterson at number one over D Bana I've again, I will say this It's not like Washington's front office is going to be like, Hey, Zach, just so you know we're taking player X. So everyone is playing a guessing game to the point that I talked to a high powered agent last night who just flatly said, Ohh, they're taking D Bana, ignore everything else. And then all this other reporting comes out. and I've heard some of it too that Peterson's back on the board. who knows. I don't think there's going to be a trade. right now, I think the top four teams are going to stay The top four teams. Um You have been onsistent that you think Peterson is the best guy in the draft. Do you still think Peterson is the best guy in the draft? And what's your best read? whatever you can share about Washington's intentions as we approach the weekend I mean, I've been hearing Peterson at won from the very start, you know? like so I was just, you know, I came on the show the night the day after the lottery and I was like, why why was the whole lottery show about AJ de Banza? you know? Like I struggled with that. You did And Cle is like he it's not He's not Cooper Flag. It's not Victor Winbinyama. It's not any kind of home run where they're just like taking agent de Bonza and we're off to the races. You know, likeike it's a real conversation here. Do I know who they're taking? No? Have I done a lot of work on it? Also no, you know, like I don't miss those days of, you know, having to call every agent, call every team. What have you heard and trying to track down tryrying to figure out who's lying and howly they're lying. you know, you know, like Who picked them up? And you know, like Washington they're very secretive and for a good reason. but I would think that they, you know, it's a real debate for them. And you can't fuck this up. And this is exactly what I said, you know, like a month ago. You only get one chance at this and nobody's going to care that You know, Asia deeBonza was the safe guy and you, if Darren Peterson is the best player then this is going to be a stain on your record, you know, for the rest of your career. So you better make the right choice And you know, I think it's Peterson. you you know, reasonable minds can disagree and you could tell me that Agent deeB Bon is the most talented guy and and he has a very strong argument. Agent deeBon is going to be a very good NBA player. So I can't wait to see how it all plays out. It's so much more fun when we don't know who the number one pick is. You remember this, you know, crazy Jabari Smith Pabolo Banero, Chet Homgrrren I mean, the Orlando magic never brought Pao Bancero in for a workout You know, I mean, that's I remember going to forgot about that An hour before the dropss in, Mike, who are they taking? And he said, I don't know, man, you know, like there was a last minute zoom then, you know and and to not bring a guy in for the number one pick that just shows you like They really, really struggled with this and they they and they had a tough choice to make. You know, it turns out they probably should have taken shet But You know, get the playffs might, you know, I was going to say to my most recent memories of Chet are him falling over trying to dribble baseline and dropping the ball a lot. But yeah, I think that it at the overall, you know, body of work, you know, we're all prisoners of the moment here, but like Chad Homan helped them win an NBA championship last year and you know, he hisis role was a little bit different, you know, like his job was to draw Victor out of the paint. He didn't do that very successfully, but so You, I think u I'm hearing Peterson, but, I haven't done as much work as I usually do on this kind of stuff. So we'll see how it plays out. Here's here's first of all, I completely agree with you. I had Kyle Mann on a few days ago and I threw out the comp to the Banero Smith homegrin draft of like the last minute flip flops, the odds change. like Jabari Smith is number one for a long time. He ends up getting picked third, which turns out to be the appropriate order of selections in that regard I don't think Washington is trading the pick I don't think to the best of my knowledge that they know with certainty right now who they are taking. I think they're leaning one way and I don't know which way it is And I don't think anybody really knows as that conversation with that agent I mentioned last night' like, Ohh yeah, for sure, they're taking this guy. o. So here's what I'll here's what I'll have you do. Because the finals ended relatively early I've actually treated myself to some college basketball. Like I watched some full games and like I can't there's no way that I can cram, right? I can't cram from a year of not really watching college basketball because I watch two or three NBA games a night. But I'm like, let me get more of a taste of some of these guys And it has been so much fun because I know that I can't make up for lost time. And so like yesterday, I watched An Arizona Kansas sche at Arizona where it just reinforced that I really like Grandon Buress or Brden Buress. don't even I'm saying their nameames wrong. That's how late I am into the game And Peterson I think was coming off some miss timee in that game was super quiet in the first half and I'm texting scouts like I'm watching this game like Peterson's doing nothing. Burrys is amazing. likeike, who my God. And then in the second half all of a sudden, Peterson has twenty two points. Franfisill is losing his mind on commentary about how good Peterson is. And then all my scoutchs like lookook, if you really want to see Peterson, you gott to watch this high school game, which I did a little bit of. You got to watch this game against Baylor and this game against whoever. and I'm like, man It's got to be so you really have to see the full body of work obviously to make an informed decision. I can't do that But I will say this Peterson is what? six six, six with shoes D Ban is like six nine, six, eight, six nine with shoes Peterson had this Wildly strange college season I will say you've probably heard this too that Although there is some there is a great deal of skepticism about the public creatine explanation for the cramping All the medicals, all the testing everybody has seen. every team is like satisfied that they've seen everything they need to see and that Peterson's medicals are fine. And there is no issue here to be worried about. whatever happened happened. Nobody's really worried about it. Aside from that make the case for me that the smaller guy with the more strange college season. Bet high school season probably, but more strange college season is actually the right guy for the wizards andign ignore fit. Like let's just pretend it's the wizards are a blank slate, which they're not, but make the case Yeah, I think that Darren Peterson is going to end up being the engine of an NBA team I think he's A six six version of Damien Lillard U And so that player that we saw in high school that can change speeds with incredible force, get paint touches Finish with both hands. pass off a live dribble makeake shots from anywhere on the court That is an all NBA player and that's the guy that you can win a championship with Aid De Banta It's going to be a twenty five point per game score in the NBA. He's an incredible talent in his own right I'm just not sure that he's somebody that you can win a championship with. you know, with his style play really ball dominant, you know Mid range bowoyball. Tunnel vision, you know inattentive at times, defensively U I'm worried about that. Now Darren Peterson There was a lot of chill there this season. and we didn't see that extra gear that was so tantalizing in high school where he's just, you know, playing off that right handed headzy and just blowing by people and finishing above the rim. We never we saw that in really small doses this year, but it wasn't as consistently as we saw agent demands. agent demandsone has this incredible will to score this like insatiable hunger to put the ball in the in the basket that I missed from Darren Peterson. likeike I was reallyally disappointed in the way that that he went out, you know, that last game against Stain. Johns. o he had twenty one points th Darren Peterson, but down the stretch it's like man Go take the ball from Melvin Cnil and go win this game. He was really like playing the three. It was all these bad shots from Trey White and Melvin Cnil like, okay, some of that is on the coaching staff They were kind of unrecognizable, you know, like in terms of like what you normally expect to see from Kansas Um, you know, Bill Self was obviously, you know, he wasn't healthy this year and and so I wonder like If we saw the best version of Darren Peterson like what I cannot let go of what I saw Um, you know The whole week in Brooklyn and McDonalds own game, every practice, every scrimmage, the game, you know, that whole season of prolific prep that Incredible game against, you know, dee Bunza, you know, where he dw the guy averaged thirty points a game, seven assists, you know, he was made incredible shots all year in high school I'm talking about. And u, you know, that That really stuck with me. And that's why Peterson has been number one on my board all year And from what we're hearing, you know, like that version of him has been on full display, you know in the pre draft process, in workouts, in LI playing against NBA players every day. And people are saying like this guy is going to be a superstar in the NBA And and I'm sure if if if if that's what people what Washington saw in their private workout, that's going to be really, really hard to let go of You mentioned the private work. I want to reiterate this. The jazz were not surprised that they are apparently to this point not going to get a private workout. from Darren Peterson And I don't think they really care Um I don't think that's going to influence who they pick or not Um Do you Was was what I said about the health checking out okay with teams. have you heard that that same thing or am I wrong on that No, I've heard the same thing And it was obvious also just like watching him this year at Kansas that like he was not himself. like it was not the same player. There was like a tentative quality to him where it's like instead of just, you know blowing past people with that incredible change of speed, that incredible force. it was a lot of mid range pullp ups instead. and like which just from the very first game was like, This is not the exact same guy that I saw. you know, he's obviously he's not comfortable, you know, was it the hamstring? I don't know, you know, like, but And so yes, I mean, that, I mean, that all checks out and checks out from what we hear, checks out the medical checks out from the film. And so like I know what I saw. like there is another gear there for Darren Peterson that We didn't see consistently this year at Kansas you could make the argument that If they just love both Dansa and Peterson equally Tie would go to fit And I think Peterson is is a little bit of a smoother fit. depend depending a little bit on Trey Young, right? Like this Trey Young thing is a little bit strange that he opted out of that it's already being reported that he is, I think is is a mid to late late June deadline opting out of forty nine million next year It could be as simple as This is prearranged and he's going to opt out and resign for three years. whatever with a starting salary that's a little lower, a little whatever, a little different that there's some reason why he opted out instead of opt in and extend It could also be His agents know He has a Max somewhere And I don't know where that would be. I've heard conflicting, I've heard both accounts potentially being true And so if he has a match somewhere, he has a match somewhere, they know he's going to opt out and the wizards are going to have some work to do to bring him back But iven I mean, I guess I guess they both fit very well. The Wizards have a lot of wing and big Guys, I don't know how important Anthony Davis is going to be to their long term future Davis Sar, etcetera. Keishan George, Kulabali and all that. Maybe none of that really matters, but That's an interesting one to me and I'm looking at the ringer our big board Kyle Man just updated his and he has Campboozer at one And I will say, you may have seen this on Instagram. They pulled this out I fell in love with Camboozer watching a couple of full duke games and some some other clips of him I just think he's awesome. I think he's going to be a very good NBA player And I think I should have been clear about this Again, I know nothing, right compared to the draft Ns I don't even loving what I saw from Camboozer and what a genius IQ processor playing from a step ahead, the passing, the versatility, the shooting, running pick and roll, screening and pick and roll, all that stuff using angles like a little bit of yokachi stuff in his game not to compliment at all it's a little bit of that I still don't think based on again, my limited viewing How much I love him. I still don't think I would take him number one because These two guys have such crazy superstar upside in terms of like engines on offense that I'm not sure Boozer is quite that. I could be wrong But I am prepared for like I'm prepared for anything in this draft. likeike I'm prepared for the two percent possibility that Washington has decided fuck it, we're taking Camboozer number one or the whatever percent possibility that Utah is like Oh De Bana failed us. Guess what? We're taking Peterson or we're taking we're taking Boozer number two. like I'm prepared for anything. And I think Memphis and Chicago are sitting there being like, Hey, man, we're cool. likeike whatever whatever falls to us. We're thrilled with these top four guys. but it's interesting that Kyle moved Boozer up to number one, but that's That's where I stand board not his mock, right? So that's it's his big board not a mock. I think Um I would be surprised if it's not one of the of De Bans and Peterson at one. I would be very surprised. Yeah. And me too. Yeah, for sure. You could you can make arguments for both of them and this Tay thing is a little weird. I would still bet on Ty being back with the wizards, but Who the hell knows? And then the draft really begins at five with all of these guards and you know, clippers Brooklyn, Sacramento. Atlanta at eight is super interesting Dallas at nine is super interesting Milwaukee, Golden State, Oklahoma City. U And I've heard, I don't know if you've heard this. I've heard New Orleans is calling really aggressively to get into this range of the draft with a specific player in mind. I don't know who it is, but You know, there's just so much intrigue with The clippers have garland. How much is that going to impact their selection Th that's just drafted a whole bunch of point cards. How much is that going to impact what they're going to do? You've probably heard these rumblings that like is Brooklyn going to trade down? into the range where there's like more wing guys available pick up an asset. They don't want one of these guysars. I don't know o alough this noise about like they love ACuff Sott Perry coach A cuuffs thatad. arere they going to trade up with the clippers to get to make sure they get a cuff I actually have I would bet against that based on what I've heard, but again, the intntel is all over the place. I don't think Sacramento is like a cut for bus. We're trading up. We're going to do something reckless. my read on them as best I can get it and it may be wrong. I want to be clear is that they're going to be cool with whatever False to them, but that could be That could be wrong too, but like what just in that range, what's most interesting to you, whether it's trade up, trade down, trade out, a particular player that's floating around that range kind of wildly varying degrees, what's interesting to you I think it's the cllippers. you know, I mean, it's such a tough decision for them. I mean, they they made this huge gamble Trading Zubbots for the pick. They won on lottery night, you know, they they have the pick now. It's an incredible win for them, but now you got to pick the right guy, you know, and like and And it's not like They're ready to take a guy and then continueing to rebuild her for three years. I mean, like they've got a team that is is built to win now. And so but at the same so do you a lot of these guards, they don't really fit with Garlland. And so, you know, A cuff, you know, even Miuel Brown defensively It's not a it's not a great fit, but like you don't draft for fit at this point in the draft. You want to in five years from now, you want to be able to say, I got the best player at this at the spot that I was drafting at And so that's what makes this such a tough decision. And so I'm sure that, you know, they're fielding all these calls and you know, but I don't, I mean, you said earlier that you think that like there's so much So many teams want to trade into this range or so much, you know I I don't I mean I would I would think that like It's kind of a normal draft here this five to ten range, you know, like and so I think even below I think even below that And I think part of that is because Um People think Golden States pick at eleven might be in play and the and the thunder pick at twelve might be in play because they have two two of the top seventeen And then fifteen to eighteen is four straight teams, Chicago, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Charlotte who they have traded for that pick. They're not the original owners of that pick. So I just think there's a lot of like There's a lot of thinking some of those picks could be available for var No question. And there always is I mean, like there's always a huge amount of movement, you know, like especially in that fifteen to thirty range. I mean, we'll probably see like half of those picked trader. There's always like I mean, I think is the stat is like ten picks move hands like the week of the draft, you know, like including the night of the draft. And so yeah, there's going to be a ton of movement and you know the draft is like it's the best conduit for making moves And for preparing yourself for free agency and attaching, you know, picks with contracts to get off stuff and clean your books and all that. So Yeah, it's I mean, it's much bigger than the draft. I think it's probably less about like pure excitement about the players in this range, you know, especially like in that fifteen to twenty five range and more about like, we've got to do something, you know, like and and this is a great opportunity that the whole leeague is open for business and let's just go make some shit happen right now Let's take a quick break and then we'll talk more about this sort of intriguing morass in the middle of the first round. This episode is brought to you by Micolob Ultra. How ready are you for the FIFA World Cup twenty six? 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Call one eight hundred five two six seven seven three six to learn more. or visit Tmphiaradio. com Glenn is one of my most interesting off season teams because they obviously fell again in the lottery They drafted a bunch of guards last year. They have this Mikeel Porter Junr. expiring contract that I think would be a pretty valuable trade ship They also just have to decide in this new lottery world, do we They don't control their pick next year which gives them like a bizarre incentive to actually in some cases, be in the relegation zone, like be so bad that you're one of the three worst teams in the league because then you can't have your pick be number one and have it like their incentives are all over the place because there's also the incentive of like The Nicks just won the championship. and we're Like our afterthought status has been underlined like and highlighted more than it will ever be We have to get some juice in the arenna. I don't know what they're going to do with this pick and I don't even know like what have you heard about just their general like is this trade down stuff? For a wing reel, like what do you think is going to happen there I think they need to show improvement this year. Like I think that they need to start winning games and makeakes missrides, you know, like because next year's draft is shitty. And like I said, they don't control their pick And so there's no like gold at the end of the rainbow anymore, you know, like you've got you got to get going here. And it's unfortunate that like these last few drafts that they've slipped and they don't get the pick from the primo talent and that really and that makes me think that they're not going to trade down even further, you know, like you're at six There' these, you know, four to five guys who are going to be there. You got to go and pick the best one, you know, like and regardless of position, I don't think that Ben Sarf, you know, like is, you know or no one t or. like these guys can't be factors in your decision making process. Like there' I'll go a step further I think Darius Garland is good enough to be a factor in your thinking if you're the clippers. But I don't think it should be anything close to like a determining factor Daris Gcarland was a nice bilo emergency play when it was clear that Harden wanted out and was not going to be part of the long term future of the franchise That was a nice pivot for them. He's a very good player. He's made an all star team. He's had a ton of health issues. He really just barely played for the cllippers and played pretty well. But like he is not if I'm the clippers and I love A cuff or I love one of these smaller guards, Michael Brown, who I didn't love on film by the way Um And not the bigger guards like Waggler is a little taller. Waggler Rather is a little taller Bures plays a little bulk like if if I love who I love like Darus Garland is not stopping me from taking that guy and I'm just going to figure out the rest later. He has two years left on his contract. Sound like he's on a five year de with them I'm sorry, continue aboutrok Yeah, no, so I mean not I'm with you, the same same concept, you know, applies to the clippers that applies to the nets, you know, like you need to go and get the best guy here. And so and trading down like punting on this is not really a solution. So if if you got to figure out who who's going to be the best player three years from, the problem is that like none of these guys are really going to help you win Next year like Dry sa A of Dey Matt, you know, Kingston Flemings, Keaton Wagler, Naya Ment I like Kingston Flemings, he's clever. He's pretty small, but he's he's clever and he competes on defense. I don't know what he's going to bepects. you know, but you know, history tells you that like point guards who are nineteen years old don't help you win, you know, like And so that that's kind of puts him in a tough spot because you know, we're you need to get better, but it's not it's probably not going to happen for you from these from this crop of guys from five to ten. But then you're hoping that they show enough excitement as the year moves on to buy you more time to continue to build and, you know, use your cap room and use New York City and use the Michael Porter, you know, trade shhip. and it's it's not an easy situation they're in. I'll tell you that I Give me One guy Who's arising And one guy who's falling as we approach Draft day. Yeah I think that it's probably less about like the workouts, the measurements, the combine and all that and more about like what we just saw in the playoffs, you know? And so I think with that in mind, I think the bigs, you know, like The playoffs help the bigs. I mean, it's been a couple of years now where we're seeing like bigigmen really matter, rebound matters, Rim protection matters you can play two bigs together. you need that physicality in the front court. And so like I got like Morez Johnson, for example, you know, like he's The fact that he he showed that he can play both ot to compare the four you compare the five, you know, is shot it you know, decently in workouts. He's twenty years old, great interviews, you know, seven three wingspan You know, that level of physicality, you know, that's impressive, you know, Like in Heine Steinbach, the same thing, you know, like really good measurements, you know, he's over six eleven in shoes, seven two wingspan, has shown the ability to space the floor, can pass it some, great offereensive rebounder Strong, physical, tough U, you know, like that translates to today's NBA. Is he going to be a star? No. Could he be a real useful piece for, you know, any team in that eight to fourteen range? Yes. So u, you know if anybody kind of slides up, I think it's going to be one of those guys do we see like in a Dim Mara? you know, like does he climb up the board on Draft night end up at six, seven, you know, like that range. I mean like wow. I I've heard thats I've heard like eight nine like that range is not like outrageously unlikely. L it's unlikely, but I you're not the first person to throw numbers like that about a Dimara I mean, it's so intriguing. you know, nine nine standing reach you know, the passing ability, the rim protection He's so skilled, crafty and he's got great footwork. He's got great hands Um, you know, the question is You know, is he going to be able to shoot eventually. I mean, he shot fifty nine percent from the free throw line in college which's probably not going to happen anytime soon. But we saw that, you know, earlier on in his career. And so if he can do all that stuff at seven four, you know, he's only twenty's been in college for three years, but he's only twenty one years old. There's still some upside there to tap into Um I mean that's those are the guys that I got my eye on on draft night, you know, like those bigs to see like do any of do any of them climb into the lottery? Where does Yako Lndeborg end up? you know, L there's kind of like this sense out there that like, you know, turning twenty four in September, he's just too old. He is what he is, you know, the analytics, they don't like the older guys. There's been a ton of guys over the years E Udos and Wesley Johnsonons who, you know, like got drafted really high at a, you know at twenty three and ended up busting And so by the axle lenderboard You know, he's six ten. He can handle. he can pass. he can shoot. He's he's built for the modern game. He played small forward for a national championship team. You can slide him to the four. He's big enough to play the five U, you know, like he was super efficient. He can do a lot of different things. So I'm just really interested to see where does Yaxel end up. You know, some people say like the interviews, the background, people kind of wonder, you know, like How serious is he? and I've heard I've heard the maturity. I've heard the maturitycern going to be like for him. And so that's going to be a really interesting for one for me Honestly, again, I know nothing compared to you and everyone else. I watched some Landaborgs. and was like He's not going to be a bust. Like I don't know exactly what he's going to be, but he's not going to be a bust. I liked all three of the Michigan guys quite a bit U G me give me one foaller before we take another quick break U probably Jaden Quent's, you know, like it's just u, you know, there was he started the year top ten on pretty much everybody's board He was, you know, the youngest player in college basketball was a freshman at Arizona State. He had an awesome year just blocking everything and you know, as a seventeen year old and you know, he barely played this year. He played four games. He didn't look right. There's some concerns there about the medicals Um, you know, he's he's still only eighteen years old. it feels like a Robert Williams type situation where He might end up sliding into the mid twenties, but somebody' going to pouced on him one of these really good teams and I think they're going to end up being really, really happy with him because like You know, you can't teach six, ten, seven five wingsspan, you know, that versatility defensively There's a lot to work with there. you know, like you think about like the sppurs at twenty like it's a pretty interesting guy to pair with someone like Victor. And so I'm really interested to see where does Jade and Quentence end up on Draft Kight. It's funny how some of those like fallers that fall and then a team pounces on them, especially if it's a smart team. Um it's like, oh my God, what a what a great shot in the dark. You know, this guy fell to them and like the good number one guy coming into mind is how excited everyone was for Cam Whitmore on the rockets and that like sometimes they fall and it's like, oh, that's why they fell The guy I've heard is and we don't need to belor this is co op Pe just because of concerns over his jumpshot. but Let's take let's take a quick break and then we'll talk really quickly some more off season stuff Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck. person who dries it That's a Chevby Puron There's probably no one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, They the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too Chevrolet, Together let's drive. visit Chevy. com slash trucks to explore the lineup This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T mobile home run derb' right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia. Al Duncin. Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Fast Kirzian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing. to make history. I'm interested is who what Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T mobile Home rununs be live on Netflix Monday, july thirteenth at eight PM Eastern five PM Pacific All right, let's wrap up by just I wanted to go through interesting off season teams that are not in the honest vortex and not in like the top five of the draft vortex with one exception that I'll get to in Memphis. U J because I think they deserve mention Um I mentioned Atlanta at number eight that's a pretty interesting. I think they're a very interesting team for a lot of reasons. They could open up Cap space. They have CJ McCollum's free agency that could vaporize some of that cap space. They have Jonathan Cominga team option that they could do a number of different things with, including trradeem if they wanted to Um And they had this number eight pick. And it's from New Orleans U and it didn't end up as as sexy a pick as they hoped it would be because New Orleans had a nice finish to the season I just This is based on almost no intntel at all. I wonder if that pick is going to be available in some form for a veteran. And I keep coming back to I'm shocked at how much I hear Treay Murphy's name in the rumor mill I think that's partly like I don't think he would he would be adverse to a trade of New Orleans If I'm New Orleans, I'm like,'s actually a good player. I'd like to have a good player and a good contract on my team He'd be a great fit in pretty much anywhere And I look at a team like the wararriors. I don't think eleven is going to get it done for Treay Murphy U and they have difficulty matching salaries and doing all sorts of other things and they like Mos Moody's hurt and Jimmy Butler' hurt I wonder if eight could start the process of a trade Murphy deal to Atlanta. I think Chicago also deserves a little mention in the trade because of Bryson Graham in whatever happens with Shay Murphy, But I think Atlanta' Sneaky, interesting. Any anything you want to say on them on Atlanta. Yeah, I mean There was these guards there and they played without a traditional point guard since trading Tay Young. so do they continue along those lines and just have this like super sized, you know, big time defensive lineup or do they go with you know, does having all those guys give you the ability to go draft A Darius A for a Miuel Brown a great point or a waggler or something like that because you can instulate them a lot better than on most NBA teams. and Even if you're bringing that guy off the bench, that's okay. I mean, he comes in and he's, you know, he's a spark plug as a rookie and it just eases the transition so much for for a rookie like that to have those kind of defenders and veterans around you. Um Detroit Speaking of Tray Murphy I think they're going to do something interesting this summer I don't know if it's going be it' a draft. I dont know if it's going to be free agency I don't know if it's going to be via trade They can also open up a decent amount of cap space. They've been mentioned as like a potential Austin Reeves landing spot. They'd have to do a lot of work to open up Austin Reeves level cap space It's not impossible I just think, you know, they had a they had a rough first round series. they win a seven game second round series. they lose It laid bare what they're missing, which is outside shooting around and secondary creation around their sort of centerpiece players And I think they look at the East is like, okay, like we learned what we're missing. We We're going to do something something interesting that they didn't do at the trade deadline where they just sort of did the fringy Kevin Herder thing I think there's a lot of interest around the league in Isaiah Stewart who has a handy salary for trade purposes based on based on just Putting dots together Tobias Haris is a free agent. He's a veteran leader on their team. I'm sure there's mutual interest in a deal being done there, but we'll see what other alternatives the pistons have. I just think the pistons are going to do something by their standards a little splashy. That's all. I don't even know where they're they even have a pick in the fr. I don't think they have a pick in this draft twenty one twenty from from that swap. That's right. That swap with Minnesota They go up to twenty one. So that's like not an uninteresting spot for them to be in. I justly I think some people have with this Tyler hero sweepstakes if they want to, you know make a big offer for Treay Murphy, you know, like what does Dallas do with Kaire you know, Markin and obviously that's going to take a lot to to get him, but like they need shooting and there's and and this is the perfect moment for them to to to go all in with their pieces and you know, like they don't probably need usar Thompson and Ron Howoand like how well do those guys Isah Stewart? They don't all complent Cpe Cunningham. Cape Cunningham needs A little bit more space to breathe. We saw um, you know, in the playoffs and so any of those guys who could really, really shoot and take some pressure off of Cade would make a lot of sense. Now people aren't just going to give them away, but like they have the ability to go make a move here because their books are pretty clean and they have their picks moving forward. So you know, why not go make an aggressive move if you're the Detroit pistons. The time is now the East is wide open Um O teams that are interesting Toronto, Billy Well, no, I'm just gonna Philly is somewhat interesting. What make the case for Philly being on this list you know, brand new president and Mike Gansty clean slate for him. He could take this a lot of different directions, you know, likeike if he wants to go to the ownership and say Let blow this thing up, you know, like let's start over. Let's get rid of John Bed. Let's do whatever we can to get off of Paul George. Let's start over. Let's build around DJ Edge Comb, you know, and Tyree S Maxy I mean that you could make a case that that might be the move. If there's any time to do that, it's at the very beginning of this new transition into a brand new front office. Now, I mean, what are they going to get back? I mean, getting off Paul George, like good luck with that. But it's I mean, it it's a thought to explore if they want to blow this thing up. I mean and if there's a team, you know, even like a Detroit or someone like that to said like we need another guy, you know, like to put next decade. those are two guys that, you know, like are proven players in the NBA Kawai interestnteresting fit in Detroit No clue what's going to happen with him. Obviously, we're all waiting for. Tell Lipton Rosen and Kats, by the way, the law firm. cononggratulations. just world record billable hours on this aspiration to. You want to interview me, I'll in for a couple hours. I don't know anything. But like if you just need to get your billables up, I'll put on a suit, I'll walk into your office. I'll get someone to film it. We'll have a great time. I'll just I'll plead the fifth. I've never pleaded the fifth before for any reason. I'd love to go in and plead the fifth. It would be a lot of fun U U Toronto. nineteen Num nineteen pick. I just mentioned them because they are They're good And there was some proof of concept in them being a good team. Scottty Barnes had an amazing playoffs I don't know that they're any any better than good U, and they just have a lot of contracts and they have all their picks and swaps under control. dont I don't expect anything dramatic. from them But I'm just interested to see sort of, you know, also O OG and Ad Obe became a hero for another team and there's that whole other storyline. but U I'm just interested to see what they do Indiana Everyone forgot about the Pacers. Th thenen they tradeed for Zoobots. Hiberton presumably will be healthy coming off the shingles thing and everything else They' they're like they ran roughhot over the Eastern conference like yesterday, basically So they're interesting in that regard. and they're also interesting. I'm going to read you all the players who are extension eligible for the pacers. Pascal Sacum, Tyrees Hallibberton, Nvita Zubbaj, Andrew Nemhard, Oby Topppin, Jeris Walker, Ben Shehepherd and Johnny Furfy are all eligible for extensions That's just a crazy amount of guys including two max guys and Halliburton and Sacam. that are eligible for extensions. They have multiple years left on their deal. Halliburton has three Saka' do just a lot of interesting pivot points for the pacers. I have no idea what they're going to do. Obviously They are heartbroken having lost their pick in just who could have possibly seen it coming. Jonathan. we talked about this, the luck of the draw Um And who else do I have on my list They're in the top five. so they kind of like violate my rule of I don't want to I just think I'm very excited to watch Memphis next year because they're going they they move up in the lottery and they're gifted this this third pick. everyveryone thinks they want booze or whatever. whoever they get is going to be very good because They're really they they're two keeper keepers and they have this Miran situation that they need to resolve coward who's just Re good and can play with pretty much anybody like a wing who can shoot threes and handle the ball like just anybody. and Ey for eleven games last year was like fucking Godzilla and then just didn't play at all because of these ankle injuries. He'll come back presumably Ti Jerome was a monster for fifteen games and then he didn't play at all with Edi They get this number three pick. I just I'm interested. I just can't wait to watch them play. I think they're going to be fun. did you do is the boozer noise accurate to you H and Zach E together. That's like straight out of the eighties. Like they're just c. Let's do it. Grind people to a pulp inside be like post up after post up after post up. They're going to be in the bonus ninety seconds into the game and it's going to be awesome to watch. And so, you know, what do they do with Jah? How does he fit into all of that? I'm not sure, but U Memphis is always entertaining and so It'll be interesting to see what they do. I mean, they're always very aggressive on draft night. So do they, you know, do they do I mean, they've got the picks and so they have sixteen as well, right? Like what are they going to do with sixteen teams are I think teams are calling in that range like trying to get in and They could also just be like, we'll take You know, I mean, Bennet Sturts or somebody like that. who the hell knows? ft co compete and just go all in on, you know first stuff guys, you know, put him at the three and just smash people to death all game long. U One more team. I just I It's just they're not that interesting, but they are People have kind of stopped talking about Minnesota because they have faded out of the honest discourse and I never really figured out how they were going to get in on the honest discourse and who the hell knows if they're still secretly in it or not I still think they watched those conference finals and said to themselves like we're pretty good. Those two teams are only going to get better. Dan probably going to look around and be like We need a little more juice here on the ball. Devven Chenzo is going to miss the at least most of the season, if not all of it next year Um Randall had another bad playoffs. They don't have a ton of tools, although they get another pick that they can trade when the calendar flips over We just know Tim Conolly is adventurous and not afraid to push a lot of chips in notot afraid to shake up his team I just don't like, I don't know how tradable their big salaries are. I don't know like someone like Gulbert is pretty essential to how their team is built and plays. I don't know who really wants Randall to that degree I just I never I always keep half an eye on Mnesota. I don't know if you've heard anything, but I' I always just keep half an eye. I don't know how they're going pivot, but I expect hing unexpected for Minnesota. Yeah, I mean, Tim Kyy, like you said, like he's a he's a deal maker. And so I mean, if there's if there's a trade to be made out there, if there's an opportunity to get in on like a three team trade or something like that he'll be right in the mix there. I, they've got their team And I mean, Anthy Edwards is still only twenty four years old. There's probably another gear he can still get to, you know, like Jy McDonalds is twenty five. so It's not like they need to, you know, blow up the whole thing here. I mean, they they had a pretty good year. They made the semis of the Western Cerence. So like they're they're I don't see them you know drastically changing anything and is there something along the margins? that could they pick a up ball handler? I mean, that's probably what they're going to end up doing I want to conclude by calling out what I think is the Lamus U and Bldest take of in the media right now. the lamest and fake fakest boldest. I don't know how to exactly say it. But I hate this take. I've seen a lot of people make it already And they they like pound their fist like it's like it's a really bold take And the take is Well the Kicks feel good story. They're not going to repeat next year put it in the books. The Kicks aren't going to repeat. This is one and done. the league is going to figure them out like great story. Hurrah for New York. Hurra for Jayalen Brunson It is the lamest possible take to make four days after an insane championship run where they went sixteen and three in the playoffs And the reason I say fake boldest is like And like, o, we've had eight straight new champions. You think it's like a big statement to come out and be like, I don't think the Kicks are going to repeat. It's like the safest fake boldest take possible. It's the take you're most likely to be proven right with because you said it right in the aftermath. Oh I told you they weren't going to repeat. Yeah, no kidding. It's very unlikely that they repeat. It's very unlikely that anyone repeats I will also say I think because of how unusual Brunson is as a as a as a number one star And how just unusual their season was in terms of like prettyretty good fifty three win team sixteen and three juggernaut in the playoffs Um I think people are sleeping a little bit on the sixteen and three part. Like that's not a small sample size And I know they didn't have to play Boston. What's Boston going to look like next year? Do we know? Do we know for sure? like like they were did not play great in the postseason. I know they didn't have to play Oklahoma City. Obviously like I would have picked Oklahoma City at full health to beat the Kicks in the finals. I think they would walk in as my favorites next year. We don't know how the offcing is going to shake out for any of these teams, including the Spurs who beat Oklahoma City Indiana Zubbots is an interesting new pce. We'll see Detroit. againgain, we'll see what they do in the offseason. Cleveland In New York just threw them out of the playoffs like they were a freaking pile of garbage going into a dumpster on the side of the road Philadelphia Orlando, new coach and Miami. We don't know who's going to be on their team is a honest is it not honest? what's left over like I just wouldn't sleep on the possibility that the Kicks are in the finals again next year. And if you're in the finals, you got a chance. So I think that take is both just so obvious as to be like wildly fake bold And also I think kind of underestimating the nextix. I've heard it a lot. I've seen it a lot. I think it's just almost like a waste of airspace. doneone. E of podcast Any thoughts? I would love to see the Kicks back in the finals. mean I live in New York, I'm in Harlem. like we had a watch party in front of my house, every game. My kids are coming home from school, talking about basketball, asking about asking questions. Have you ever met this guy? You ever met that guy? My kids never showed the slightest bit of interest in what I do for a living until the nextick year the finals and all their friends at school started talking about basketball and all that. So I'm like, that was fun. Let's do that again. I'll tell you, I'll say this. again, I grew up hating the Kicks. I am not a Nicks fan I don't now I have no emotions toward any team on Spock as Bill calls me I do love New York City. I've lived there for almost I did live there for almost twenty years. It's my favorite place in the world. I've already done this I don't want to belabor it. I mentioned when when I said that a few days ago That empire state of mind was my wife and my wedding song when we got married. And I'm like I got a little I'm a I'm a pretty like controlled guy But when Alicia Keys performed and Jose Alvarado and Kat are like bopping and bouncing to Empire state of mind and she's like in the Kicks. I got I got a little emotional yesterday and like there's two million people there. like you can see all the way down the streets and it's just endless seas of people. I was watching it on TV. There was no way in hell I was actually gonna to go and like camp overnight or try to get a media pass to this thing, but I got I got a little emotional, Jonathan. I'm not I'm not When she got up there and started belting out, put a hand up for the big city. I was a little emotional. Okaykay? So maybe that's why I don't like this stake because I'm a little emotional about New York City right now It was a fun run and I would love to do it again Jonathan Givvoni, Draft Express, follow him on X, follow him on Instagram. whereere else can they follow you TikTok I guess. I've gotk al. I't know what he' is going on Tko. We' logged in once to TikTok, but allegedly we are on TikTok and we have like two hundred fifty thousand followers. so We have the same relationship with TikTok. I have a TikTok account. No idea what's going on. No no clue. I don't want to somebody to do your TikTok for you. You're missing out I don't know what's happening on TikTok. You're the best. Nody knows the draft better than you. Stay tuned to everything he tweets says does in the next four days. Givoni. thans for some of your time. I'll see you down the road, buddy Thanks, Z, greatreat to be with you All right, that's it. Everybody enjoy the weekend. It could be a newsy weekend. Thank you to Jonathan Givonei of Draft Express. He's incomparable. Thank you as usual Jonathan, Mike and Billy on production. and thanks as always to you all for listening to andor watching, the Zach Loscho will be back next week kind of TBD depending a little bit on news and my crazy travel event schedule that I have coming up. but stick with us. If anything happens, we will be here. The draft is on Tuesday. So something is going to happen while Croatia is playing Panama and I'm in the stands in Toronto. God, help us all. Thankk you all for listening. See you soon