The Lasting Impact of Sharing Our Lives

Support for this American life comes from Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which uh means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing, it's built to help you find and own a home. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. So when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com WBEC Chicago Sis American Life I'm Ira Glas s. So when I was thirty-six years old, the year I started this American Life, my relationship with my parents was not the greatest . I've been working in NPR since I was 19, and they were not into it at all. Like they were not into public radio. They were not into me working in public radio. They saw public radio is this like sad little backwater when they would listen to All Things Considered Morning Edition, which were shows I was working at. Especially did not like that I wasn't making much money. I did not make much money. They were both people raised in families where there was never any money and they really organized their lives to get themselves firmly into the middle class and they really did not understand why I didn't want to make m oney. And then also there'd been a period in my early 20s when I was kind of judgy about certain choices that they were making and I hurt their feelings. And by my 30s I tried to make amends and fix that, but it still wasn't quite right between us, and really I felt pretty distant from them. They did not hide the fact that they disapproved of pretty much all my life choices, and I didn't feel a lot of patience for that disapproval and I didn't have like a combative relationship with them, but it was just distant. I would go a month or two all the time without talking to them. And you know, they were busy people, but I am sure this hurt their feelings. We talked about it later in our liv es. And then I started the radio sho w. I have to say the single most surprising thing that happened in my life because of the radio show is that it fundamentally changed things between me and my parents. It healed things in a way I had not suspected could ever hap pen. And uh, what I'm gonna do today is I'm gonna play you four of those conversations that I had on the air with my parents and we're gonna talk about that ch ange. A lot of the change happened, I think, uh, because I was just including them in this big project I was doing. I would have them on the show, and they were part of this project that meant so much to me. They were on the show five times in the first year that we were on the air. months. And we just got into a rhythm of that and they really liked it. They liked the attention from me. They liked being on the air. They each, but especially my mom, had a kind of performance hammy side. I'll play you some of these. I think you'll be able to hear that. And I never asked them about this, but I think they also liked what a kind of like public sort of affirmation it was of them as parents. Like, oh see, we're a nice family. Like see they were good parents and it really did change things between us like my parents are both dead now and it still kind of floors me as this lucky thing in my life that I just stumbled into. And so what I'm gonna do today is play some of their appearances on the radio show and maybe jump in just a little here and there to point out things that I am noticing. And there's one that I'm gonna play at the end. This is this conversation with my mom that still honestly it, makes my skin crawl today the way it did the day we recorded it. This whole um episode today, the the way this came about is that uh about a year ago we started doing these bonus episodes uh that we put out in our podcast feed. And so I'm constantly trying to think of behind the scenes stuff to share with listeners in these bonus episodes. And that led me back to re-listen to these old interviews with my parents. And then a couple weeks ago I, put these four interviews into a bonus episode. And honestly, it came out so nicely that we thought like we should put this out as an actual regular episode of our show. One that anybody could he ar. And so that's what you're hearing right now. And where I want to start things, this first excerpt is from an episode that we did called Adult Children. This is the fourth time I had one of my parents on the radio show. This is May 19996, which means that uh my mom in this recording is younger than I am right now. She is sixty years old in this record ing. And I picked this one uh to begin because it's one that directly addresses the actual tensions between my parents and their three children. Though as you'll hear, it addresses them in kind of a light way that does not get too deep or heavy. But you can also feel that there's something real under the surface, I think. Okay, so I'm gonna start this with the open of that episode, uh, where I tell a little story, very brief story, that kind of sets up the interview that then will happen with my mom. Here we Well when I picked up the phone, it was my mom. And it had been about a month since we had sp oken. And um as usual, that was my fault . Anyway , she said that she had been invited to speak with a group of women at the local Hadassah, you know, the Jewish women's organiz ation. My mom's a therap ist in the Jewish suburbs outside Baltim ore. And these Sadassa women have this group that meets regular ly. All of them are women in their somewhere. I guess. I'm just going to jump in again here in 2026. I am reading this in such a heavy way. All of them are women in their I guess in the late forties to early six ties. And when the group first started me eting, apparently they discussed all sorts of stuff. It was wide rang ing. But as time progressed, they realized there was only one top ic they all really wanted to talk about. Only one topic they all needed to talk about. And that was their relationships with their adult child ren. And at some point that became the only thing the group discussed. It became its official reason for existen ce. They had such um tra uma. And they didn't know what to to make of of what was going on between them and their adult child ren. And they invited my mom to lead a discussion on how to get along with your adult child ren . So um as for preparation, my mom's a big preparer and she does research and looks up articles and calls experts. Anyway, as part of this preparation, she decided to call her own three adult child ren. By the time she called me, my mom had already called my older sister Rand y. Randy's advice was brief and to the point. Tell them to get a different leader . Okay, so then what happens is that um I explained here's what we're doing on the show today. It's gonna be an episode about adult children and their relationships with their adult parents. And then uh as then I set up the interview with my mom, I say that I told my mom that I thought that uh my sister Mandy had been maybe a little harsh in the way that she put Can I say something? Yes, I I when I when I told your sister what you said, she said, Oh well I was just kidding. I didn't mean to be mean. Oh. So I I don't want you know her to be blasphemed uh but you're a professional psychologist. Now don't you think often do don't you think that there was a note of hostility in what she said? Oh absolutely Okay, there you see and you and I can agree. And frankly she's not on the phone. And um if my sister Randy is listening to this bonus episode, please just forgive me. I didn't I guess I did mean you to throw you under the bus. Okay, let's keep going. So mom, so the thing I I I wanted to ask you about is okay, so you had this seminar with with all these uh it wasn't a seminar, it was a discussion group. The discussion groups and I was uh the facilitator. And how many women was it ? Round thirty some. Oh, so a lot. Mm-hmm. Now if you had to characterize in a phrase people's uh relationships with their children, would you describe them as being very good, uh somewhat okay, generally kind of yucky? I mean how would you describe it? I would say that there were a lot of people whose dreams haven't been realized, uh whose expectations haven't been met, and so there's a a sense of disappointment, although there were some people there who were pleased with all aspects. And then of course the question was well why are you here? To gloat, was that the answer? To gloat and show you pictures of grandchildren? A little bit. A little bit, yeah, okay. But um were to connect with the other women I suppose. Um but these are the uh criteria for satisfaction. Do you want to hear them? Quickly. Um whether their children were married. Quickly. I'm so rude to my own mother. Move it along, mom. Quickly. Um, whether their children were marr ied. Yes. So that having single children was a disappointment. I'm just gonna make a little checklist here. Whether they're taking to make sure that you're whether they're whether their children live close by or far away. All right. Whether their children appreciated them one for three whether they had grandchildren, somebody announced that they're that uh their uh one of their children was pregnant with the first grandchild and everybody ooh and they clapped, you know. So that that's the epitome. Um whether their children were successful in in their lives, um how much they liked their child's spouse and c got along with them. You told me on the phone earlier something interesting about this. I'm just gonna interrupt. Like I at this point in my life I was uh th thirty six, thirty seven and um and I had n no spouse um and was deeply uninterested in having children. Um and this was not something that my parents were too pleased about, either of those things and a point of discuss ion their child's choice of a partner um at the time that they got married but had grown to love them very much and and in and in some cases even like them better than their own child. See now I wonder if that is because there is an inherent tension between children and their adult parents that uh the child sometimes wants to be treated as the child and sometimes wants to be treated as an independent adult and for the parent it's pretty much a hellish guessing game. And then yeah. Yeah, a lot of people talked about walking on eggshells and how can I um uh several people said well how what's the right way to give advice? And of course the answer is you don't give advice unless some Do you think that this relationship mom can I just say from twenty twenty six that was definitely not um the standard practice in our own family to wait until somebody asks for advice for advice to be given. And no disrespect in saying that, just a factual statement there. Do you think that this relationship is harder? The the relationship between adult children and their and their parents is harder Yes, because the parents have a dream of how they thought it was going to be and it seldom matches the dream. That was definitely true of my mom and my dad and me. They definitely I was not living the dream at all. Anyway, back to the tape. all live far away. And she said she uh is she and her husband are very lonely. And what's happened, you know, the good part is that they've gotten much closer to each other 'cause they realize that they're all that they have. R ight. Alright, well um well Dr. Glass, I'm afraid that that this would be about all the time we have for this particular segment of our radio show. Look, I'm glad for any time I can get with my child ren Alright. Touche. My mom, Shirley Glass, a therapist in Baltimore. Coming up a set engineering. Um okay. So that is the fourth time I had one of my parents on the show. The reason I have to say that we had my parents on the air so much in the first year of the show was because it was such reliable material. I had heard Howard Stern talking to his parents on the air, which if you have ever heard that it was some of the most enjoyable stuff he ever did. It was just very like funny and very complicated emotionally. Sometimes it would get genuinely tense between him and his parents. Like the real relationships really happened on the air. He was so good at that. And there's just something inherently entertaining about hearing some radio host who supposedly is like the king of the show, right? Like he's running the show, this adult running the show, and their parents just come on and they don't give a crap. You know what I mean? Like they really try to get the last word. And so the staff, we just knew like, oh, what what we filled with this was like w like c could you talk to your parents? And it was just always good material. And um so the very first time my mom or dad were on the show was the very first episode. We hadn't named the show This American Life yet at the time the show was called Your Radio Playhouse. And then you'll hear in the first uh minute or two here, I'm cutting in and narrating from the studio, but that's me back in nineteen ninety five doing that. That's not me today. Um if I want to jump in at some point today, I will say explicitly it's today, it's 2026, uh me talk ing. Okay, here we go. Morning Lash Jacobson So shit. Hey, is Barry there? Pardon me? Is Barry there? Yes he is, he's on another call. Uh do you wish to hold This is it's his son . Uh-huh. Anyway, so I I thought I would call my parents in Baltimore and ask for advice on this our first evening of our brand new radio show. Your radio playhouse. Can can I leave a message with you or is it better to use his voicemail? It doesn't matter I'll put it right on his voicemail. Okay, let's do Okay hold on please. Baby what you're hurrying relax This is the story of my childhood r right there. Dad is a little too busy to tal k but um but there's the recording of, you know, Frank Sinatra when when needed . Hello. Hey mom. Oh hi Ira. How you doing? Fine. Can you hold on a second? Sure . This is what it's like with my parents. You can never they're so busy. Calm. Put on h old. Baby, what's your hur ry? When I call my little sister she works at Disney and so there's always there's like Disney music, but they're playing on the hold system, but there's a lot of Disney music and there's a lot of it Hi. Hi mom. Yeah. Um listen I uh can I can I uh r record a quick uh conversation with you about something? Um well you know the um the new show goes on the air this week . Yeah. And um as part of the show we were thinking about having me call around to different people and get advice from them. And I wanted to know if you if you would have any adv Mm. Do I have any advice? Hmm. Well, can I ask another question? Sure. Who is your target aud ience? You are such a pro . Um, I'm saying that you're in danger of appealing to uh to a narrow range of uh listeners if it becomes um uh a little too um Artsy. Artsy, yeah. I'm just gonna jump in here in twenty twenty six just to say like there's no kind of like, oh, the new show's happening. Congratulations. Nothing. Like her first comment is to like question, are you sure you aren't going to screw this up? You know, uh are you and dad still still worried, you know, about about me making a a living in public radio? I mean I know just for for years um you were urging me to just get out and get basically any job in TV that I possibly could. You know, but now that you know I've got my own show and y are you guys still worried or do you feel like things are going okay? Do you want me to get into television still? Um now that um Hugh Grant is such a big star and everybody who sees you or sees your picture thinks how much you look like Hugh Grant, that sort of fires up that TV thing again in me. Alright, I'm stopping the tape. This is me live. That was the tape . Only my mother could possibly believe this. Only only a mother. Uh could pretty much believe this. Other other adults see me and and the thought that goes through their head is not Hugh Graham. The thought that goes through their head is tall Jew. I think, well gosh, wouldn't they wouldn't this wonderful, you know, um um humanistic and intel an intelligent reporter um who looks like Hugh Gr ant. Right. What's the theme for this week? I'm just gonna come in here now in twenty twenty six. Uh this interruption is happening right now. I have to say something else that that hearing this recording reminds me of, and that is that like when I look at pictures of my mom, it's just I just feel a sense of fondness for my mom. But when you hear somebody's vo ice, it's so much more powerful. Like it's so like it just like I feel like it's like she's alive talking to me again and I'm having all of the feelings that I had when she was alive. Like like really like as this tape is playing like beat by beat, moment by moment, I feel like I'm experiencing this conversation the same way I did Thursday The theme for this week is is um uh new beginnings. And we have several stories of people telling about uh about various ways in which their life began anew at some point. I'm gonna st stop the tape again. This is my home life. I call my mom for an interview and it's not even her first interview of the day. Like I was I was lucky to get to you know to get a booking. Sh she's a therapist and sometimes she Sure. And um people's expectations about relationships. And one of the things I believe is that there are a lot of people who are good at beginnings but they're not good at midd les. W w which means what? Means that they like the beginning where there's all this idealization and romantic projections and the other person can be who they who they think they should be rather than who they are. And when they get to the middle phase. Alright I'm just gonna stop the tape. Alright, listen, all of you in the audience right now, let's just agree right now. It's the very beginning of our relation. It's the very beginning of our rel radioationship right now. This is our little first little radio d ate. And I just don't want any idealiz ing. No idealizing. they they kind of um run away from it because it's not as exciting. It's interesting that you say that because because actually as we've approached the first show, I've realized that I am much more comfortable with the notion of um kind of everyday work a day sort of radio work and you know being on every week and and um you know having pieces on the air. But the notion of saying like in a really big way, okay, this is the beginning. It's the beginning and we're gonna have like a big beginning and we're gonna make an epic statement. Um I feel very uncomfortable with. Hm. I mean so you are good at middles. I I'm better I think at middles than at beginnings. That's good. That's good 'cause practically all of life is the met al. We have gotten so deep here. I never expected that it was gonna that it was gonna get so deep . This is just uh d I'm just very pleased at how deep this has got ten. Now you're sitting there you're thinking, is he making fun of me? What's happening now? Where where are you? No, I'm not, I'm not actually. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. You d nothing to worry about. Are we gonna get a tape of this? Depending on how you sound the Chicago listening area? Depending on how you sound, yeah. Okay. Okay. Alright, well that's my mom, Shirley Glas s. Speaking to us from Baltimore, I I don't I I don't think she's gonna get a tape. I do not think she's gonna get a tape. I'm pretty sure I actually did send her a t. Um anyway, okay. So that is the first episode of our sho w from November 1995. Um so my dad did come on the show also. It wasn't just my mom . And I'm gonna play you some of that, including an old story about his uh very brief and very doomed career in rad io. After a quick break. Stay with us . Support for this American life comes from Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why, when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit Schwab.com to learn more. A program note. We have a new episode out this week titled Call Your Parents, which actually originated as a bonus episode just for our This American Life Partners, people who have signed up to support the show financially. So if you listen to this new episode and enjoy it, know that there are dozens more personal behind the scenes episodes just like this if you sign up as a this American life partner. But more than the bonus episodes, you will help make it possible for us to continue making the show that you hear each week. We're counting on the number of life partners growing over time. We're counting on this program growing. That's the only way the budget numbers work out long term. Head to thisamericanLife.org slash life partners. That link is also in the show not es . Everybody has a hot take on the economy. And whether you're curious about inflation, trade wars, or the markets, what you need is reporting you can trust. Hi, I'm Kai Rizdal, the host of Marketplace. Our award-winning reporters talk to everybody from CEOs to farmers to help you understand how the economy takes shape in the real world. You'll be smarter every time you listen, and these da ys It's American Life. Today we're doing something different than usual. I' plamying old interviews that I did on the program with my parents, which really did change my relationship with them in a fundamental way. As I said earlier, uh today's program was originally made as a bonus episode of our show. Every two weeks or so, we try to put out these bonus episodes for our This American Life Partners and uh they're generally uh behind the scenes stuff like what you're hearing today. Anyway, so we turn now to my dad. Uh the biggest story that I did with my dad is in an episode again, this is very early in the show, it's episode fourteen, it's February nineteen ninety six. It's like what is that, four months after we started on the air. And I should say this story I'm just gonna play uh straight thro ugh. So when you hear me interrupting uh tape and stuff like that, that's actually happening in the original story. That's not tod ay. We have arrived at Act 2 of our program. Baltimore . We'd like to ask you this question, my friend. Do personal problems and worries have you down? Are you disturbed by business problems, marriage problems, or emotional problems? See Mrs. K, reader and advisor. Mrs. K, formerly of Europe, gives you a reading and answers all your questions for just one dollar, and you'll feel much better. You'll have a much better picture of where you're headed after you've talked with Mrs. K. The telephone number is Saratoga 7-2753, but of course no appointment is necessary. I'm just gonna stop this tape right there. I have three things to say about this tap e. Number one Formally of Europe Number two of course no appointment is necess ary. Charity knows you're com ing. And number th ree. This is my fat her in nineteen fifty si x, three years before I was b orn. He's twenty And coming up right now uh news about a wonderful appliance from Norman R. Mitchell. Just for the homemakers as we said befor e. We're talking about an electric dryer. And uh, my fri end, if the lady in your house has her heart set on an electric dryer, here's some big news for you from Norman R. Mitchell. Right now, they are featuring the new 1957 frigid air filtramatic electric dryer at an unbelievable low price. My father started in radio when he was nineteen. The same age I was when I started. He began at the college station at the University of Maryland and after graduation got a job spinning records at a commercial station in Baltimore. Then he was drafted, and at the time of this particular recording my father was actually in the Army stationed in Virginia. But he wanted a career in radio so badly that every Sunday morning at the break of dawn he would um leave his wife and his five month old baby my older sister and drive up to Baltimore to do a four-hour program. For over 18 years, thousands of folks just like yourselves here in town have relied on Norman R. Mitchell appliances for sincerity, service, and substantial savings. Three important musts for a successful business today. My dad's paycheck for this four-hour Sunday morning program was $5.88. The most he ever made at a radio job was $90 a week . My friend, how would you like to get twenty-one beautiful greeting cards? Absolutely free. Plus details on how easy it is to earn thirty-five to fifty dollars a week selling Liberty Best Hey Dad? Yeah. When you were doing radio w what did you like about it? What was the appeal of it for you? Um it seemed easy to do. Um Um certain amount of um I guess notoriety. You know, it's good for your ego. People know who you are. You know, I was a big man on campus at the University of Mar yland. You're a good announcer. I didn't really know that. Uh I've been listening to the way that that you do the announcement. You you you're relaxed and yet you punch the sort of main points, but you sound completely at ease and you're convincing. You're you're doing ads for the hokiest products in the world and you sound completely like you believe it. Really? Yeah. What are some of the products I forgot about? There's a lot of appliances. U h-huh. Um, and then there's one um reader and advisor named Mrs. K . Formerly of Europe. Oh my god . Just show them to your relatives, friends, neighbors, and the folks you work with and see how quickly they order. You know you're actually doing them a favor by saving them money on Christmas cards and such fine quality cards you've never seen in your life as Liberty B ell. You know, a lot of what it's like to be on the rad io is just trying to sound relaxed when, you know, you're not. You're doing a show. You're you're you know you're not just talking to people. And in some of these tapes, I can actually hear my father struggling to sound relax ed. And these recordings give me this picture of him that I have never had in my life, really. Um he seems so young, you know, and um inno cent. A guy in his twenties doing this this thing that I know so intimately mys elf, you know, just sitting in front of a microph one, trying to sound at ease, trying to sound like this relaxed old pro. Not a care in the world. Yes, now you can have color in that kitchen of yours and uh really make it a true showplace for your family and your friends. And make it a lot easier to work in too with color, hu h? And you can have this color in your kitchen all at the price of wh ite and of course frigid air features the new 1957 frigid refrigerators ranges washers and dryers in four decorator colors at absolutely no extra cost to you. You have your choice of pink, yellow, green, or charcoal. This is just how long ago this happened. They had not yet invented the idea of renaming the colors of appliances things like, you know avocado, lemon, egg shell . Going to be real big in the coming weeks and months all across the country and right here in Baltimore too. This week it goes to the Crew Cuts. Listen to their rendition rendition of Love in a H ome counters Not long after he got out of the ar my, my dad decided that radio was no way to make a living, and after a series of jobs, he decided to become a certified public account ant. He was a typical workaholic suburban dad. You know, off to the office at seven in the morning, back at six thirty for dinner, exhausted after that, he would sit in his yellow recliner in front of the TV and fall asleep . He started his own business, struggled to establish it, worked lots of nights and weekend s. During tax season, from January to April 15 th, we would barely see him. What's this? Is that a radio ? Mm-hmm. In our house when I was growing up was an old reel to reel tape recorder, little consumer unit that my mother and my sisters and I would goof around on from time to time. Record is singing or telling stories. And while my mom appears on these tapes a lot , my father does not appear on them on ce. He simply was not there to be recorded . The only time he's mentioned on all of these tapes is this. I'm gonna play uh this moment to you. My mother is cooing to uh my older sister Randy, who's probably I don't know, a year a year old, year and a half old. Where's Barry? Barry's my dad . Where's Barry, Randy ? Daddy, where's Daddy ? Did Daddy go byye B by e. They go outs ide. In the car. Cool. Ba-pa? Uh-huh . These days, my dad explains his decision to leave radio and become an accountant this way. By that time I had realized that uh radio was not for me. What happened would be a new program director would come in and if you weren't the apple of that guy's eye then you were out of a job. You gotta go start looking for a job again. Even though that never happened to me. Uh I could see it happening to other people and I wanted to be in t in control of my own destiny and uh I decided that it wasn't gonna work out. And that was no it was not gonna work out. And that was nineteen fifty nine? Yeah. The year I was born. Right. Are those two things related? Not at all . It sounds like they are. No, they're not . No, they're not. Well, all the stars are on record and all the record star on the Sunday morning carousel. Coming up for you right now, our feature top tune of the day. Number one in the record stores we visited this week in Baltimore, and judging by your cards and letters here at Wynn, it ranks very high. The Prince of Wales himself won Johnny Ray with Just Walkin' in the rain . Just walking in the rain. Now, the way a story like this usually ends so good is that I reveal that this is why I'm in rad io. To make good of my father's legac y, to live the dream that he never got to live. But I have to say the fact is, I never knew him as a radio DJ. I did not know that he had ever done radio. The entire time I grew up, it was never discuss ed. The recordings of him doing this stuff were packed away in the basement. Nobody talked about it. I never thought of him as somebody who did anything. certified public account ing. If my mom ever mentioned this, I do not remember it. And I certainly didn't grow up with any special feeling about radio. I could care less about radio . Like most Americ ans, my medium of choice was television . I got my first job with National Public Radio in Washing ton when I was um 19 years old . And um at that point I simply wanted a job in the med ia. If an ad agency I was a f like a freshman in college, if an ad agency had hired me that summer right now, I would probably be doing Bud Light commercials. You know? I can just I could just see the whole thing laying out that way. And in 1978 when I started working at MPR, my parents absolutely did not want me to do it. They it wasn't even like a judgment call. They were completely against it for the ne xt I want to say ten years, maybe it was fifteen years really. I mean they'd simply saw it like the way most parents would. They saw it as impractical. They worried that I would never make any decent money, never be able to support a famil y. Essentially the reasons that my father quit rad io. When I first um dug out these tapes of my father about a year ago, I asked my dad, you know, if he ever wished he could still do rad io. And he was completely unenthusiastic about the ide a. In all my life, I had only seen his desire to be on the radio on ce. And uh this was actually a a couple years ago. I was filling in as the guest host of Talk of the N ation, this um daily Collins show NPR does out of Washington. I was doing that for half a year. And my father had never seen me host a radio show. And he and my mom drove down to Washington from Baltimore to watch me do the show. And and before the show , um, he asked me if he could read the news . And and at first I thought he was jok ing. And I I don't remember exactly what I said back and joked something back at him. And then later as we got closer to going on the a ir, he he asked again, you know, that he would like to read the newscast, the MPR Newscast at the top of the hour, at the beginning of the sho w. And I I realized he was serious and I had to explain to him that I didn't have any um authority over that. That, you know, the NPR newscasters, you know, they wrote their own news and they delivered it themsel ves. Then a few months after that, he and I were talking about what he's going to do after he retires. He still works, still works long, long ho urs. And um he told me he's been thinking about doing a little bit of radio work aga in. After he retir es. That is if he can find some radio station or you know some radio program that could use them in some way. Okay, it's me again in uh 2026. Um so not that long after that, just four months after that, um I asked my dad to co-host the show with me for Father's Day. So he did get his chance to get back on the radio. This is an episode that we uh that we do rerun now and then, so I'm just gonna play you a little snippet or two from this. Okay, so Ded, so you have the script. I have the scri pt. From WBEZ Chicago, it's this American Life, The Father's Day Edition. Dad, you are such a pro I haven't done this in forty years. It brings back all kinds of memories. Now you better explain to our radio listeners in what context you actually sat in front of a radio microphone, Dad. Well um and then my dad kind of recaps what you already heard about his radio career. I'm just gonna pick up now a little later. And today for Father's Day my co-host will be my own father, Barry Glass, certified public accountant. And it's a real kick to do this. I know this is our little father's day adventure together. You could have bought me a tie . Dad, I wanna why don't you read the bill board? Our program today will have four acts. Act one, Sandra Tsing Lo finds out that the world sees her father very differently from the way she sees him. Act two, Dad's music. We have a story from writer Sherman Alexi. Act three, The Moment Dad Le ft. Act Four, Reconciling with Dad, a story from playwright Bo O'Reilly. I just want to say, like, I we did this at the beginning of all the episodes in that first year or two. We would list each act and say what the act would be. And then at some point, like I don't know how many years in it was, I realized like oh we don't have to do that. Like if we do the beginning of the show right right,? People would just wanna hear what's going to happen next and they kind of don't even care what's coming up. Like, oh you just want to know it's like, I guess it's going to be good today. And then like listening to acts like he just did like we, you know, just feels like it it doesn't mean that much, you know what I mean? Unless you're a fan of one of those people in particular. But but otherwise, like, uh, no. We don't do that very much an ymore. I will say my dad really, really liked being on the air. Um, his friends heard him. That was like a really nice thing. And it was just like acknowledging this part of his life that um that honestly I didn't know about when I was growing up. There's a thing that happened with me and my dad and it happened on tap e. And for the life of me, I have no idea where this recording is. And I wish I could find it. And that is when we were taping for some episode. We got into a very real conversation and tape just kept rolling. And I don't remember how we got on it, but it was just it really was about like was he a good d ad? And he was really asking in a real way. And then I felt like I will try to meet him in this moment . And I had been in like therapy for a while. And my dad, like, I will say, like, was a very uh like he well intentioned dad who really did try to do his best. But his dad left when he was four or five years old. He didn't grow up with a dad, and he just didn't know what it would be to be a dad. He really was inventing it as he went along. And he could be very um he would just get angry at random stuff in in ways that I really felt like I spent my childhood kind of dodging around and trying to anticipate and trying to like read his moods. And and basically I said like there were just I explained to him like there were the ways that he treated us that really affected the way that I treat everyone in the world today and went into like maybe a little more depth than I'm doing with you here right now because you are not my father. Um and um and I said like it really like it was hard. And I said like I've I've been in therapy. I'm trying to like change the way I am with other people so I'm not so alert all the time to like how they're going to treat me and and just trust people a little more. And it just kind of like laid out things in a way. And he heard this and he paused and he said like honestly he said he said like the perfect thing. He paused and he said um I'm so sor ry. Like that must have been so tough for you. And that must be so tough for you . And he said, like, look, I, you know, I was doing my best. Like I didn't know. I didn't have a dad. Like I didn't know how to do it. Like I really was trying. And then we never talked about it again. And and we really like like honestly, like all the drama between me and my dad for my whole childho od like I know this sounds like a complete exaggeration to say this is true, but but I swear emotionally, for me anyway, it really felt like in one conversation that was maybe eight minutes long, it was completely resolved because he did the simple thing of saying that he heard me and just said he was sorry, and you know, he was trying, which I believe completely, and very much in contrast, and again, my mom is dead, so it feels a little weird to just like say things about her here on this show, but like I don't know, like why why talk about this if I'm not gonna be real? My mom was much more defensive, even though she was a therapist, if my sisters and I would try to talk to her about like you, know, you do this thing and you kind of like whatever it was, um she just could not hear it. She really couldn 't. Like and I do think like part of that is like the m mom in most families is just doing so much work to just like run everything. Uh whereas my dad was pretty absent and off at work that I think she was much more protective and it was really hard for her to hear that we mig ht have criticisms. Um but yeah, like and and and really up until she died, it like that stuff never got resolved. Whereas with my dad, it got resolved so quickly. I t I think about that sometimes of just of just like of the two of them, she was by far the more like psychologically aware. She was a therapist, but like he just handled that moment with such gra ce Let's move on. Coming up, the interview with my mom uh that I was talking about earlier, which has all that stuff that still makes my skin crawl. When you hear it, you can judge if If I am overreacting, which I may be, I don't know. You be the jud ge. That's in a minute. Chicago Public Radio. When our program continu es. Support for this American life comes from Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit Schwab.com to learn more. Support for this American life comes from Rula. Ever thought about getting therapy, but then talk yourself out of it? It's too expensive, insurance confusion, or you don't have enough time? Rula makes accessing quality mental health care affordable. Find a great therapist in as little as five minutes. Rula works with your insurance company, offering personalized cost estimates up front with no hidden fees. So head to rula.com, that's r-u-la-com to find a therapist the easy way. Support for this American life in the following message come from Dun and Bradstreet. Whether you're bidding on contracts or seeking financing, the right business identity can accelerate the process. A Dunn's number from Dun and Bradstreet helps you do just that. This unique identifier links to your business credit file and creates a trusted identity separate from your personal credit. It's free. It takes just minutes to apply. Give your business the identity to move faster at dnb.com or download the my dnb mobile app. This American Life from Ira Glass. Today's show, call your parents. I'm playing uh interviews that I did with my parents back when they were alive, which I find is generally the best time to do interviews with people. I don't know. Call me cra zy. I'm gonna close out uh this episode with one final story. This is from an episode of our show called Double Lives. Uh, it is the tenth episode we ever made. This is uh January 1996. And um before I play this for you, I I had an experience with this story recently that I really don't think I'll forget. Um, I just got married this year, uh, and it's a new marriage, and the first time I met my wife's mom, about a year and a half ago, I guess it was, her mom has dementia and lives in assisted living. And when I met her, uh my wife, Susanna and I took her mom for a ride somewhere in the car. And when we were in the car, Susanna had the idea to play her mom this next story that I'm going to play you, uh, because her mom was a therapist, just like my mom was a therapist. And and we thought it could be a way that her mom could get a sense of my mom, which we thought her mom would like. And also, I don't know, like this is like such a corny thing to say, but this is the closest thing we would ever get to the two of them meet ing. And so we played this story where you'll hear you do get such a strong sense of my mom's personality. This is a good introduction to my mom. And Susanna's mom really liked it. She laughed at the funny parts. She got exactly what the story's about, even if she doesn't remember this at all tod ay. Anyway, it was nice to have a recording that could do that. And then of course, this is also uh the story that really makes me squirm. Anyway, a heads up for parents listening with their kids. This next story acknowledges the existence of sex. Here we go. Our parents can surprise us with what they don't tell us. With what they don't talk about, especially when it comes to sex. Recently I had this experience. An ex-girlfriend was in the g ym looking through a copy of a Marie Clare magazine, women's magazine . And there was an article in it on women's fantasies, their sexual fantasies. What do your man's dirty daydreams reveal about what he wants from you? In the article, six sex bits, that was the word they used, sexperts, reveal the six most common male sex fantasy scenari os. So um my ex girlfriend is re ading, and there, in the third par agraph, one of the sex birds turns out to be Hello. Hey mom. Yeah. It's Ira. Yeah. So I'd like to do a little interview. Okay. Okay. So Mom, can I read to you a a quote from an article? Okay . Here it is. Your man wants a woman who excites him through her own excitement. You could stimulate yourself while he watches or let him participate by moving his hand to where you want it . That's you being quoted in Marie Clare . You're kidding. What what is she all I know is that um is that Anaheed was at the gym and she opens up uh Marie Clare to uh to an article called Men's Sexual Fantasies and um and it says at the top uh here sex birds reveal the six most common scenarios, unlock the secret longings and psyches of the modern men who fantasize. And s and you basically are one of the sex birds. Yeah. Yeah, I am. I didn't really know you were a sex b irth. What did you think I was? Just another Jewish mom and psychologist. Uh-huh . So it wasn't like you were a sex bird and you were keeping it from your family . Um, you're talking about my family meaning my children, not my husband. Yeah. Because he knows that I'm a sex bird . And you can call him to verify that. I'm just gonna pause. Okay, so I'm not a parent. Okay, like I don't have children of my own. So maybe I'm not the best judge about whether I would say that to my adult ch ild But I think I might not. I don't know. And you can call him to verify that. I think I'm just gonna let that go. Um but my um children always seem embarrassed if I um discuss anything sex ual. So therefore I tend not to around them. When when would you try to discuss something sexual with us? I might um make a joke or um say something that I had a sexual connotation and I'd get this um disappro val. I don't think that that's true. No? Yeah, actually I mean it doesn't it doesn't affect me in any way to to think that that you and Dad would be sexual with each other. In fact I even remember as a teenager understanding that and being kind of reassured by it . Does that make any sense? It makes a little bit of sense, but it really doesn't cover all the situations if it's if I'm just telling a joke or talking about something somebody el se. And I think it has to do with boundaries and I think it has to do with that children, even adult children, do not like to regard their parents um sexuality. H m. You know something you're actually convincing me . Well let's do a little scientific test. Can you think of a sexual joke? You just tell one right now and I'll tell you m my reaction. I can't think of one. And uh you know what I'm feeling right now I'm feeling a profound I heard a wonderful joke, but I don't even know if it's a joke or a story. Um that when Neil Armstrong walked on the mo on and he said one giant step for man and one what is it, one giant step for mankind or whatever. One small step for a man, one giant step for the same step for many. Right. One small step for man, one giant step for mankind. And then he also said, Good luck, Mr. Gorky. And for years people have been asking him uh what that meant. And he would never tell them. And then this year someone brought it up again. What did you mean when you said good luck, Mr. Gorky? And he said, Well, I can tell now because mister Gorky died this ye ar. When I was a little boy, mister Gorky was our next door neighbor. And I was playing outside one day and their bedroom window was open and I heard Mrs. Gorky say, Oral sex, you want me to give you oral sex? You'll get oral sex from me the day that boy next door walks on the mo on . W ell, no, I'm examining my own feelings and I have to say I did get very nervous there in a way that does not correspond perhaps with shrugging my shoulders at the notion of of of you having some sexual life and sexual thoughts. Yeah. Okay, I'm just gonna jump in here live from the year twenty twenty six to say like I'm just been spending like the last minute. I feel like I can feel my blood racing. Like I just feel like my temperature is risen and I just feel like what is what is happening? Like what what is happening ? Is that wrong ? Are you on my side ? Can I just say also like she's getting this reaction out of me today in 2026, she's been dead for 20 years. Like, and still she can get to me quoted as saying um uh says doctor glass quote in a caring relationship it's certainly not abusive or unhealthy if the fantasy is played out in a light teasing way. Uh you're also quoted extensively in fantasy number five spontaneous and Which when I read that it actually explained some dinners I've had with you and Dad . I thought. Well you know you didn't talk very much between the two of you. No, no. That was just the oppos ite. So so if you actually uh have you have you um have you done this? Have you gone to a restaurant with dad and pretended you didn't know each other? No. No. No. No. But if you did you're saying that it's we've gone to restaurants with you and pretended we didn't know you. What do you mean by that? Well, when you were younger and and um and and and let's say that um your your manner of dressing didn't exactly conform to the to the style of the thing. Back when dad daddy daddy would look at you and he would start popping gel yourself. We would go out So now that I know that you're the spix bird, do you have any sex advice for me? Daring questi on. So now that I know that you're the speaks expert, do you have any sex advice for me? Find a nice girl and get married. That's not sex advice. We always end up this way, don't we? With that particular advice. Yeah, that's I know. I know. I could ask you any question and that would be the advice. Well that was the first rule of journalism you taught me. Is what? No matter what they ask you, be sure to get your point in when I when you were first being interviewed by people, this is what I told you to say. Well I'm glad I'm glad you I'm glad well I'm glad we got to that then . My mom, Dr. Shirley Glass, in Baltim ore. I'll just say like hear how nicely we're getting along. Like we actually like that's a really sweet conversation to have with your mom and and before these these appearances on the radio on the radio show I I just don't think that would have happened. Like like there's just something so like we we are so in a like a nice friendly groove, even though like we are kind of like making little points with each other, it it's just like a very lovely thing. And and it continued that way, uh, more or less until she die d. And when we would see each other in real life, like not just on the radio, we were more open with each other. It was just easier . They stopped telling me I was wasting my life in rad io. And I think like if I imagine it from their point of view, I think that after we did these things on the radio, they knew when we see each other in real life that I wasn't gonna sit them down and question their choices, question them. Doing these stories on the radio, it's like we practic ed getting along together nicely in public . I think that public act helped them get it into their heads that I really did accept them and that the period of my life where I questioned them so much in my 20s was really long over. So that's how the radio show changed my li fe. Or definitely one of the biggest wa ys Fly me to the moon, let me play among the star s, let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mar s, in other word s, hold my hand, in other words , I think my dad would like that we got that sauna . If you like this episode of our program, like I said earlier, this was originally made as a bonus episode for our life partners. We've done over 20 of these. And they're all like this. They're behind the scenes sort of stuff. Life partners also get ad-free listening. They get the special uh greatest hits archive of the show that appears in the podcast feed, so when they want a good episode, they can just scroll through the podcast feed and look oh there's the greatest hit. Um if you sign up yourself, you get all that and most important, it helps us fund everything we're doing. At this point, uh life partners pay for a fourth of our budget. They are essential to us being able to spend the kind of time we do on all the stories we bring you. If you're a regular listener, you perhaps can tell how long some of the stories must take to make, to sign up, go to this AmericanLfei.org slash life partners or you can sign up right in the Apple Podcast