Risks of a Burnham Cabinet

David Milliband walked away from politics after losing to his brother Ed. Now both may be on course for big jobs in a burnham cabinet. This is why How does a banana trigger a CIA backed coup Do AirPods herald the arrival of a new global order? What do LED lights say about the future of humanity? I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast, Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world shaping forces hidden inside This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow Politics is littered with stories of backstabbing and betrayal, but every so often, the story isn't just political, it's personal. In twenty ten, after Labour's election defeat, Ed Milliband became leader of the Labour Party. The problem was, the favorite had been his elder brother, David, former foreign seecretary, new Labours Great h thenen Ed stood against him and won. I therefore declare Ed Milliband the winner and the leader of the Labour Party Within days, David announced he was stepping away from frontline politics. But I've decided that I can best serve the Labour Party and support Ed's leadership from the backbenches. in the House of Commons, rather than the Shadow Cabveninet. I think that gives him the space to lead the party as he sees fit. Ed never became Prime Minister. That might have been the end of the Miliband's story Politics has a habit of dragging all ghosts back on stage Ed is now being topped up as a potential chancellor in Andy Bunham's cabinet guuess we could be flying back to be boss at the Forden offffice. Yep It's David Two brothers, two great offices of state veryy old liver w' Our chief political correspondent is John Creek. John look, what is the actual level of seriousness around the idea that David Milliband might be coming back to Westminster? I mean, is this just a classic bit of Westminster kite flying? It is definitely under consideration. I know this because Ed Milliband, who is working very closely with Andy Burnham sounded out his brother David. but He did not do it personally. He did it through an intermediary. So it is definitely under consideration, but the bad blood between the two brothers, which goes back sixteen years to the Labor leadership contest, is still not completely healed. The fact that Ed didn't have the guts or the courtesy or whatever to phone his brother directly to sound him out, but got someone else to ask David if he was interested shows how tense the relationship still is. Now the answer to the question is, yes, he's interested. Will he get the job? We don't know yet. But the fact is he's been sounded out if he's interested in making a comeback to the top flight The front line of British politics and he's certainly interested. It could happen I mean, just take us back to the Millib band family story. They're very much of the progressive intellectual left, weren't they Yes, Ralph Miliban, their father, was a left wing academic. I think he had a spell at Leeds University, but he was mostly at the London School of Economics. Now their mother was a Jewish refugee, as I think the father was as well, Marion Kozak, who died very recently. They were real powerful intellectuals, the pair of them Ralph Miliband in particular was held in very high regard by a lot of senior left wing politicians and indeed trade unionists. They obviously were lived in very political household must have talked about politics all the time. And of course, Red Ed is seen as more left wing than his brother David David was very much a Blairite when he was in parliament and Red Ed, of course was always a Gordon Brown fan and that's part of the reason why there's that tension and potential bad blood between them tellell me more about that then, because it clearly, both of them seemed destined for a career in politics and a career in labor politics. Give us the potted CV. Let's start with Ed Well, Ed started up spent a lot of time actually as an advisor to Gordon Brown before he became a member of Parliament. Ed became MP for Doncaster North in two thousand five. Ed, of course was always Gordon's man, along with people like Ed Balls and of course, Charlie Wheelan, who was the notorious if you like spin doctor for Gordon Brown. There was a little group of them, a clique if you like of Brown Kights, very combative group indeed. And of course you could argue that David was the more cerebal of the two and not so practiced in the dark arts. They were from different wings of the party, differentere allegiances, Davids to Tony Blair and Eds to Gordon Brown How high did they both rise within Labour right? Oh, very high. I mean David particularly was foreign seecretary and of course, Ed did become leader Now David, of course, was the favorite to win in twenty ten, but of course it was Ed that did. So set the scene for us. twenty ten election has come and gone, hung parliament, The Conservatives and the liib Dems get into bed with each other. The Labour Party is looking for a new leader. It's all a bit rudless. Set the scene. Right. Well, there were five candidates in that election The five were David Milliband Ed Miliband, Ed Balls Andy Burnham and Diane Abbott. Now throughout the whole election until the very last moment, David was ahead. He had more nominations. He was ahead after the first two or three rounds. First of all, it was Diane Abbott that was knocked out, then it was Andy Burnham was knocked out, then Ed Balls And then it was the two brothers up against each other. And Ed won by the tiniest of margins. announced on the Saturday at the Labour Party conference in Manchester. I remember being told in the Red lion on the Friday night, the red lionous pub opposite Parliament by a senior ally of Gordon Brown that Edd won And I tweeted that and a lot of people said, how can you know? And I said, well, senior person close to Gordon Brown told me. And of course I was right. I mean I also thought before even a week or so before that that Ed was going to win. I'm boasting now, but Ed was going to win because David was not far enough ahead amongst the MPs defeat Ed because Ed had more trade union support. David, in my view, was utly far too complacent. There was a story I heard shortly after the election result. On the train going up to Manchester, one of David Milliban's team said to him, haveave you prepared for the possibility that you might not win? And David apparently rather arrogantly said No, we're going to win. Well, he didn't, of course. And I remember it well. when the result came, David's wife, Louise Shackleton, a violinist, I think with the London Symphony Orchestra, I saw her in tears behind the curtain at the back of the stage. It was a dramatic moment and of course the wounds for well, took a long time to heal if indeed they have. But the expectation was that David Milliban was going to walk this. I mean, when You heard that Ed Milliband was going to be standing against his brother I mean, how far from the floor was your jaw? Well I remember having a disagreement with our friend and colleague Adam Bolton about this because Adam thought it was disgraceful and disloyal. that Ed should stand against his brother. who was had been the front runner. He said to me at one point, this is Adam. Well you wouldn't understand you're an only child. Well, true. I plead guilty to being an only child. But of course, you'll remember only last week at Prime Minister'sQestions when Kemmy Bodenoock was taunting Sakia Starmer And other cabinet ministers, including Ed Milliband, she came out with this line. It's not the first time he has betrayed someone close to him and everybody winced of course, because that was a reference to his standing against his brother. I know a thing or two about, you know not getting on with your brother at various points in your life. You know, there was an incident with a dark gun and the less said about a putter coming towards my head the better. But this was at the very top of British politics. and ultimately, it led to One of the brothers, the defeated brother, leaving politics. I think some thought for good. Yes, well, it looked like it at the time. Although there have been suggestions that at some point he might come back. What was interesting when I was at the Makefield C a week or so ago, where the most telling thing I thought in Andy Burnham's acceptance speech from the platform was when he said, I always knew that at some point I would seek to return to Westminster. And I wonder if David Milliband has also thought the same thing He perhaps thinks that he's got some unfinished business. I mean, he has become quite a major international figure since he left Parliament. What has he been up to in the wilderness? When he left Parliament, when he stood down in South Shields, he became president of something called the International Rescue Committee. Now, it's a part charity, part lobbying organization It's highly paid. It comes with I think a swanky apartment and offices in New York and so on. So he's become a big international gloob trotter. He's obviously gets involved in wars what's happening in the Middle East, obviously helping refugees and so on. So he's now got even more experience in foreign affairs than he had as foreign secretary. Now, it probably he would argue or his friends would argue, it makes him ideally qualified to make a comeback as foreign secretary. So tell us a little bit about Ed Milliband's tenure as labor leader. I mean, frankly, it's a period that he may wish to forget himself Not very successful. I mean, if you think back to those two elections, twenty ten and then twenty fifteen, the conservatives did not have an overall majority in twenty ten. And so mister Cameron went into coalition with Nick Cleg and the Liberal Democrats. And yet in twenty fifteen, when Ed Milliband had been the labor leader, the conservatives won an overall majority Ed Miliband's leadership, not great, you have to say. And there are those who labor MPs who still remember it and say, o, Do we really want him in a top job where he wasn't great as labor leaders? What was wrong with him? Basically, he wasn't as good as David Cameron. David Cameron was a supreme communicator And a pretty adept prime minister and Ed Millibbaum's failings, his geekiness, his awkwardness. He didn't do very well in television interviews. There was one with Jeremy Paxson where mister Paxsman said to him, arere you up for it or something like that? Hell yes. And I remember one that was one when he literally stumbled on a step in the studio And then there were all sorts of gaffs like For example, a silly stunt, a great big lump of rock they called an Ed stone. I mean, you remember that? Nobody knew on earth that was about. It was bonkers. I mean it was I think it had various labor pledges on it, but it was a silly gimmick that didn't really work. And then there were other silly blunders like where he was caught on TV eating a bacon sandwich on it during campaigning. and those pictures Oh, there was food everywhere. It's disgusting. Do a banana trigger a CIA backed coup Doo airPods herald the arrival of a new global order LED lights say about the future of humanity I'm Ed Conway, and in each episode of my new podcast Stuff Matters, I take an object, crack it open, and reveal the world shaping forces hidden inside This is economics told through the things we think we understand. Search Stuff Matters on your podcast app to listen and follow. Given the disaster that at times was, the kind of the Ed Milliband project when it came to labor and opposition, I mean, how has he managed to rehabilitate himself to the place where you know, he is now being openly talked about as the next Chancellor of the Exchequer. The plus points, of course, he's an experienced cabinet minister. He served in Gordon Brown's cabinet. He's described as a pretty nifty and effective white haall operator. He's experienced, he's used to dealing with civil servants, he's used to getting things done. And if you compare him with other members of the Starmer cabinet, of course He's much more experienced and so on. His supporters would argue that he's well qualified for the job of Chancellor. He worked for Gordon Brown in the treasury and he obviously has ideas about what he would do as Chancellor the Exchquer. Problem is, of course, a lot of his critics would say they're too left wing, taxes would go up be yet again a net zero zealot. He'd infuriate Middle England, if you like, with some of his measures. It would look like mister Berham was taking a real lurch to the left if Ed Miliban became Chancellor. John. I mean I'm certainly not criticizing the point that you've just made about him coming with an awful lot of baggage, an awful lot of political baggage, particularly when it comes to net zero. but ideologically, isn't he actually pretty close to Andy? Yes, certainly And he's been working very closely with him over the last few weeks. This is why of course, Kemy Badenock was able to go on the attack and accuse Ed Milliband of betraying Kia Starmer. It does rather look like that. And of course we now know we knew a few weeks ago that Ed Milliband, who was one of those who told Starmer to his face to stand down So you could argue that he's been plotting against Starmer and of course on behalf of Andy Burnham But clearly, you know what politicians are like. I always remember I would tell a little story from the nineteen ninety four when John Smith died. I remember being at John Smith's funeral and I said to a Labor front bencher, whoosese team are you going to be on then? And he said, Oh, the winning team, of course. And of course, politicians, their shockers. Have you seen that with a beauty parade the last few weeks of all these ministers Cosying up to Andy Burnham. G me a job, G me a job. Ministers who were turned down all interview requests, suddenly queuing up to be interviewed on Sky News and elsewhere put themselves in the shop window. Well, presumably that is one thing that David Milliband will not have to do, that he will not have to show a bited of ankle if indeed he has been considered for the post of foreign seecretary because years and years, decades now of international affairs experience But I do wonder whether or not picking him as foreign secretary would basically be Andy Burnham admitting that he doesn't know a thing. He doesn't have a clue when it comes to foreign affairs. But he doesn't really. That's why a lot of people, me included, thought his speech in Manchester on Monday was light on anything, apart from boasting about his buses in Manchester and his Manchesterism and the gimmick of a number ten of the North and so on. There was nothing in there in that speech on Monday about Ukraine or the war in the Middle East or anything like that Now Is he going to delegate foreign policy to a foreign secretary, potentially David Milibad? It looks as though he may well be. But I'm not sure that's going to work The fact is, I mean, Kir Starmer didn't start in july twenty twenty four planning to devote as much time as he has done to foreign affairs, but he's had to at such a volatile time as the moment. B international decisions to be taken. And is Andy Burnham going to delegate them all? Well, perhaps he is, but I'm not sure it's going to work But hold the bus for a second, John. I mean, David Miliband is not an elected representative. Does't he need a seat to take over at the foreign Commonwealth and Development Office? Well, I mean, does they force a by election? I mean, by elections is a risky business. mister Burnham had a very good victory, got fifty five percent of the vote in Makerfield, but trying to bring in foreign secretary into well, obviously they go for a safe labor seat Mm Tricky. And I think that's why perhaps a seat in the laords is perhaps more likely. I mean, we have seen it before what Lord Cameron was foreign Sen and Alex Douglas Hume as well under Ted Heath It's not ideal and MPs don't like it. when David Cameron was foreign Secretary in the Lords, MPs complained all the time that he wasn't able to face questions from MPs in the House of Commons But it may well be that David Milliban takes on some other role rather than foreign secretary. It depends whether he really wants to be foreign secretary. I suspect he probably does because politicians have big egos and they think they can solve the world's problems. I mean, look at Tony Blair ended badly. So it's all very tricky. I mean it all adds to this great soap opera of British politics of which the two Miliban brothers are going to be centre stage in the weeks ahead, potentially I mean that was where I was going to go next. I mean let's forget about how David might come back to frontline politics, be at the Lords or be at the Cons. but can Andy Burnham actually get away with having both brothers, two millibands in the same cabinet and potentially occupying two of the biggest jobs in that cabinet. Well, they've both been in the cabinet at the same time before under Gordon Brown. Yes, it could happen. it could happen. There's no reason why not. I mean, the Tories will probably no doubt I can just imagine Kemy Badenoch rubbing her hands with glee at the sort of barb she can throw at Prime Minister's questions. It's a potential ammunition for political opponents to talk about I don't know, jobs for the boys and obviously all sorts of other taunts that Kemmy Badenock can throw at Mrter Burnham. I suppose my issue is actually more fundamental. You have Andy Burnham as Prime Minister, you have Ed Milliband in number eleven as Chancellor, and you've got David Milliband across the road in the foreign office. You know three white men of similar ages, all of whom could be argued were politicians. Is that the kind of look that the supposedly progressive Labour partarty wants to give to the country? Well, they have done up so now, haven't they? This is the party that's never elected a woman leader. The Tories have had three. Okay, onene of them was Liz Trus didn't last very long. but a lot of Labour women MPs quite rightly are appalled by the fact that labour As you say, the so called progressive partarty has still not had a woman leader. There's not been that many women candidates either. Evette Cooper stood once before. That was in twenty fifteen and Diane Abbt from the left stood in twenty ten I just wonder though, Andy Burnham will be aware of all of these issues as much as anyone else? I just wonder if we have to keep the irony Klaxson on standby for a set of circumstances in which Andy Burnham's Prime Minister thinks I am desperate to have David back as foreign Secretary and in bringing him back, he stymies the ambitions Ed Milliband and he doesn't end up getting numered to live in Downing Street. That is possible. That is possible because the question is which does he want more? Does he want Ed as Chancellor more or David as foreign secretary? Now you could argue that Evete Cooper' doing a perfectly good job as foreign secretary. She certainly wants to continue in the role and that is possible that she might do or she might be a candidate for Chancellor as well Rachel Reeves, I think she's toast. I can't see how she can continue as Chancellor the Exequcker. You can't promise change and then leave the Chancellor of the Exchequer who's presided over all sorts of bad decisions. It is possible that David may come back in a different role or perhaps some sort of advisory role, some sort of special envoy role or something like that Or even national security chief, the job that Jonathan Powell's been doing. It's not a done deal that David is going to become foreign Secretary, but he has certainly been sounded out for that role or another role. Ed is fiercely ambitious, desperately wants to be Chancellor of the Exchequer. He realizes he's never going to be Prime Minister now, but Chancellor of the Exchequer is not a bad consolation prize And of course, it's the second most powerful job in government, Chancellor, the Exchequer. And we've seen powerful Chancellor can have an enormous impact. Look at Gordon Brown's impact. look at George Osborne's impact Isn't this all just really, really and unnecessarily risky Andy Burnham I mean, look what happened the last time these two fell out. The wheels could very easily come off. and I'm just wondering, you know, we look at what's happened in the Labour Party before. I understand that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were not brothers, but they were for a long time political soulmates and that ended in an absolute binfire as well. The TBGBs, yes. Well, I mean, there is always rivalry between Prime Minister and Chancellor Margaret Thatcher used to say, never forget who is the first lord of the treasury. And of course she fell out with Nigel Lawson in the end. I mean how how' Kirst Aarmer and Rachel Reeves haven't fallen out after some of her bad decisions? I don't know. Andy Burnham, if for example, Ed Milliban starts making bad decisions