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It's time for Twit this week. In tech Mike Elgin is here. Doc Rock Jason Heiner will talk about the AI Anthropic is said was too dangerous to release. AI's been very, very good for Samsung, but not so good for Cisa . And France is ditching windows. Breaking news. All that more coming up on Twit. Podcasts you love from people you trust . This is Twit ch This is TWIT, This Week at Tech, episode 1079, recorded Sunday, April 12th, 2026. Fans, only fans . It's time for TWIT This Week at Tech, the show we cover the week's tech news. Hello, everybody. Good to see you, and really great to see our panel this week. Mike Elgins visiting us from Tuscany. You dog, lucky boy. Oh, it's beautiful. It's beautiful here, Leo. Oh wish you were here. Yeah, I wish I were here there too. It's been pour and rain here, and I love uh Tuscany. Uh you know who else is in a par adisical place on the other side of the uh earth? Mr. Doc Rock from Oahu. Uh actually I'm just happy that it's pretending to stop raining, and but then they told me today it's only How'd you do in the floods? Were you okay? Um we're actually okay because randomly our building just switched out all of our like uh pump systems, but normally we would have probably flooded, but we literally just got that done probably like a month before. So I was super stoked for that. But yeah, it's crazy. Like the the mountain up on the north shore, like rocks are coming down, a whole piece of the highway went missing on camera today. It's kind of insane. Oh man . Well, take care. And to Louisville, Kentucky, we go next, Mr. Jason Heiner, editor in chief of the deepview at the deepview.com. A great AI Hi, Jason. Hey, great to be here. Not from Tuscany, although part of my family is originally from Tuscany. Um there's that. Nice. There's that. So I've I love Louisville. All three of those places I'd I'd be happy to be in. In fact, you're gonna a lot of people are coming to town in a couple of weeks . The Derby, right? Uh yes. The Derby it is. You'd forgotten all about it. Do you go to the Kentucky Derby? I do not. I mean, I have been once to cover it because it's there was a funny so funny story in 2017 . Um I covered it because the year before um AI had predicted the winners. So this is like pre-LLM days. AI had predicted the winners the year before. And then there was a so that now there was all this big buzz. Like, is AI going to predict it again? And so in 2017, we went there and we did a big story on it when I was at Tech Republic at the time. And so I I went to the Derby is the only time I went. And uh A I didn't of the winners, none of the top three that year. So then they were like, okay, A doesn't know anything. So that that they got off of the train. Hell with that. And and half the population was thrilled and the other half said, uh oh. Yeah. Yeah. I just invested millions into it. So AI was the only reason I went to the Derby. AI well that's a you know what? That's a good reason. I would go for the mint juleps, the Derby pie. And I hear there's a horse race. Apparently. Yeah. Every once in a while there's a there's a horse. And the hats and horse race. I would go for the hats. And you are w you are well prepared today with your crowd. The hats are off the hook uh at the derby. Like the funny thing is, so uh uh because I fly a lot, I've had a lot of times where I'm flying back in, you know, as Derby da Derby Week. Now that's the worst time to fly into Louisville. The flights are all super expensive for obvious reasons because so many people come. But there's these giant hat boxes. So so you know for the for the derby hat. Yeah these huge hat boxes. So they take up all of the room in the uh in the bin space uh on the in the airlines uh in the in the airplanes. So yeah, you know when it's derby week and then there'll be people that are pulling behind them the a whole container that has their hat in it. Like some people pull their luggage as instead. They've got their hat. It's got wheels. It's got you know it's got a handle and and they're they're towing their hat, you know, behind them. It has wheels. It's so big. Yeah. Wheels. It's the whole thing. I love it. We already have a show title and we haven't even gotten started. This week, uh Anthropic did something, and I think there's some controversy around the whole thing. And since you all uh know a lot about AI, Mike does uh his own AI newsletter, machinesociety.ai. Jason, of course is the editor-in-chief of an AI newsletter, the Deep View, and Doc Rock, I just found out has his own open claw. So between the three. I actually I did I didn't want to say afraid. I just didn't want to touch open claw because I knew I was gonna be busy uh releasing a new version of our software. So I'm like if I go in this rabbit hole, I ain't coming out. So it's just clawed everything, clawed desktop but now that that release is over I like oh I have new things to dive into actually I did dive into the rabbit hole so to speak I bought a rabbit R1 to run uh uh my I have a fake open claw. Don't tell the rabbit. It thinks it's talking to open claw, but I actually simulated open claw on my uh framework. But uh this thing's kind of cool when you can attach it to your own AI instead of its own AI. It's actually a kind of nice little interface to that. And they just release it. Yeah, if I can use it for remote control, uh that would be Totally. Totally cool too. So charging her up and updating . Oh you got one. Look at that. Get the new OS too. They just put that out. It's really good. Uh not the same OS two as Mike Elgins. Well, one of the first things I messed with on the computer back in the day uh was OS two because I thought it was gonna be better than Windows. Oh, Dvorak was such an OS two fan. The first computer magazine I ever worked for was called OS2 magazine. No. Wow. Oh yeah. By the way, our cats have arrived . Uh they were a little behind us in the box. But Jason, I'm a fan of yours. It's got a horses, a horseshoe, peacock. It's everything. Yeah. Oh . Mike Mike lose like the Monopoly d ude. Yeah. Except his his feathers look like they have a bottle opener on it. So he's prepared. He's ready. And he has the only one in a morning morning coat. So that's good too. Thank you, Darren, for your instant AI response. Where was I? Oh yes, Anthrop ic. So they uh announced a new model called Mythos. We'd kind of thought this was coming, but they didn't Public . They said it's too dangerous to release publicly. That's right. To which a number of people responded, you know, that's what open AI said when that it had chat GPT 2.0 and said, Oh, this is too good. We can't release it. It'll be dangerous. It's so some people s speculate it's just good market ing . Um they did build something they call Project Glasswing, the idea being we are g going toive some very, very large companies: Amazon Web Services, Apple, Broadcom, Cisco, CrowdStrike, Google, JP Morgan Chase, the Linux Foundation, Microsoft NVIDIA, and Palo Alto Networks, just those access to it so that they can patch all their zero-day flaws. Because as soon as Mythos is released, it wasn't trained to be a cybersecurity expert, but Anthropic says it's so good at finding these flaws that we are afraid bad guys will immediately pounce on all your software. So we want proactively to give these organizations and 40 more access to it plus usage credits so they can patch their flaws before we release it to the public. Yeah, there's a big thing. Well, it is marketing for sure, but it sets a good precedent. Like if if before sort of a new model is released, like they do this, like I think that's a pretty good precedent in general, right? Um, so that's good. I do think it's mostly marketing because from what I understand, they don't this thing is really powerful. Um, and they don't have the compute to put it. If they put it out there and it's as powerful and it does a bunch of new things, they don't necessarily have the compute yet to run it, right? So they want to keep it in a small set of hands while they're sort of spinning up the cute compute. Remember they just signed some big deals . Um, they just signed a deal with Core Weave, they just signed a deal with Google and Broadcom. Like they're trying to bring on more compute. And remember that since they've had this big upswing um since February, that remember they've been struggling. They've been they've been having claw clot is gone down multiple times, right? Because and it's been a lot of people complained. I think I I'm one of them that it's been kind of nerfed over the last few weeks, just not as smart. Yeah. So I think a lot of it. That's the compute constraint. That's the compute constraint. They know they have it. And so they can't put out a new model that has all these new capabilities. Now people are going to use it for more things. And that's going to cause a whole lot of problems. I think that's r what's behind this more and if you're gonna do it, I'm sure the marketing people will like, well let's say it's just because it's so powerful. It's so dangerous. It's too powerful to put out there. Like it is good marketing and marketing doesn't have to be a hundred percent true as we're But it's also I think what's happening is that the as open AI gets increasingly dinged for uh uh ethical lapses, they're doubling down on their ethical behavior. So basically what they're saying is that this thing, uh, this Claude Mythos preview uh found thousands of vulnerabilities, some of which have been in in heavily tested uh open source environments for 30 years, and they found vulnerabilities that nobody else has ever found. And so one of the things they're concerned about is in the open source community, if they suddenly if it's it's suddenly revealed that there are thousands of vulnerabilities, the volunteers who who maintain the security on these on these systems will just be completely overwhelmed. So one of the things they're trying to do is figure out which are the biggest vulnerabilities and then come out with the solution and then patch them before they announce this to I think first of all that's uh we should applaud any kind of responsible behavior from AI companies. That's true. So you're right. Exactly. So that that's the other thing ploy, uh that's just icing a little bit. Win win-win. Win-win-win. Yeah. Uh there's another issue. And I I don't know what you think about this doc, but the other issue is okay, maybe they do release this a few months down the road public ly. But what if it costs $10,000 a month to use? What if, because of the expense to the compute that it uses, are we going to have a situation where people who have money, big companies, wealthy people will have access to better AI, more powerful tools than the rest of us. I thought long and hard about this because it came up in a conversation with some friends the other day. And I'm like, you know , the same thing happens when I see a a 488 GTB drive by . I'm like Why don't I have that car? No, I I've I've loved them. I've driven one. Uh it's an amazing car. I don't know if I'm gonna drop 450 on the whip. Um, I think I kind of spent too much on the beamer that I have now. But for some people, they don't care. Like they will just, you know, ride a skateboard, ride a scooter, ride a bike, ride a bus, and other people will enjoy their Toyota Corolla. And there's the some people that have that car and absolutely love it would care less to have a more powerful thing because I am a speed freak. I actually would want a more powerful car. And do I feel bad that I can't afford that Ferrari? Yeah, but it ain't gonna ruin my life. I think yes, this is gonna happen because as it stands right now, and you just told me something that I've been thinking about for about two months and I keep putting it off, but I'm probably gonna do it this week, is changing my plan from 20 to 200. Yep. Because I know that the way that I'm using it right now, I would actually gather more than $200 worth of value out of it and get that $200 back from the way that my business is personally set up, I will be perfectly fine with that. If it's $1,000 and other people just can't get it at all and there's no other alternative, maybe I can see where that would bother somebody. But that's no different than you know what we're gonna pay for a wine from Mike's neighborhood, uh um Fort Tuscan in Tatooine is different from what he can get it for. Because he's there. You know what I mean? And when I go to Japan, there's always been this. Always been. A hundred percent. Right? Yeah. You know, that that bag of rice that you and I are paying forty bucks for in Japan is three dollars. But we have to pay the import ance. Forty, you got it for forty? I got it. Oh, you got a new one. Okay. But yeah, it's it's one of those things. Like if you get if you're getting a fresh batch, you know, uh uh they call a shibori tate, like uh a fresh batch spring picked, you know, koshikati, yo, it costs grip. Yeah, it's it's fifty dollars a pound, you know, and it's not the same if you're buying Uncle Ben's. It's that doesn't think. No, that's a good point. And not everybody can afford it. Um but AI might be a little bit different because it gives you superpowers, maybe. It is.. Yeah What if they only released Mythos to the Pentagon and the uh government or something? You have to think that some of this is Dario Omode, the CEO of Anthropic, is a little miffed because he said you can't use uh anthropic's uh AI for spying on Americans, you can't use it for killing people. And Pete Hagseth in the Department of War said, well, that's not okay. And you know, in a way, I kind of think it's appropriate that, you know, Boeing shouldn't tell the Department of Defense So it's appropriate that government that the the Defense Department should have the opportunity to say how we use how they use the technology they buy. Nevertheless , uh the Department of War took a very harsh stance against it and declared anthropic uh a uh what do they call it a security the supply chain supply chain hazard risk and that meant nobody who does business with a dod can do business with anthropic that's a that's a lethal st stroke at anthropic so I have to think some of this is anthropic going oh yeah? W weell,'ve got the best model ever. How do you feel about us now, buddy? But I mean, you know, eventually, you know, administrations change and you know, f things change. I think m my bigger concern is that some of the most powerful models only get to the government. And I did ask one of the AI executives about this kind of offline, um, you know, recently. And they acknowledge that there probably there could be models that are more powerful that only that only end up interesting being used by government. Is that good or bad? That's sort of what I'm asking. I sort of have mixed feelings as well. I depends on the government, doesn't it? It depends. It you know I mean government's ultimately made up by people. So it's like it depends on the people who that are there that have their hands on it ultimately. And, you know, our our gap uh in in AI right now is not so much a capability gap as a little bit of an ethics gap. And I think that's, you know, kind of what Mike was getting at earlier. Um, yeah, and also you know, it's i if if we quibble with the specifics, I mean I think as I as I recall, it's the their concern, uh anthropics concerns were spying on Americans and using it for autonomous AI targeting through drones and stuff like that. That's right. And so, you know, okay, so you could quibble with that and say, well, those those are essentially okay. But there there's a line somewhere for everyone. Well they're actually technically illegal and the department of defense said well we're not gonna ask it to do anything that's not that's against the law so they shouldn't be worried. But we've all seen the Department of Defense do things that are that are against the law. And they're threatening at least war crimes against international law, the Geneva Convention. So this is where you go, well, gee, in theory, it's better if the people decide how this stuff is used. But on the other hand, if the government is out of control , do we want it to have the best AIs? This is tough. One of the things that I think is also quite interesting is okay, whenever you're about to broach something that requires you to remember legal points, right? You have to go through a human studied memory to make sure you're getting it. Now in in business law or buildings and things like that, what people would do is get all the books out, put them on the table, legal department, come through a bunch of precedents and say, okay, yeah, I think this is good. I think this is great area. I think this is black and white. Let's just go for it. Now you can use the AI to help you get to that quicker and then give you the sources and then you go and double check in. So you can cut down the length of time it takes to void dire to witness. However, if it's just making a decision by itself, that's that's terrible, right? So if you're using it to help you pull a target because it can do the research quicker, and then a human verifies it, that's that's better, right? And unfortunately , that's not what people are gonna do. People are gonna always go for the path of least resistance, like water. And the path least resistant is oh, if it's if it's if it's getting it right, you know, four out of these last ten times, I'm gonna assume it's always right, and now we're in trouble. If it's getting it right, nine out of the last 10 times, I'm gonna assume it's right, and we're still in trouble because this is a 10 out of 10 thing, it can't be one is off, and unfortunately, humans will never do that because we see the stuff that gets put out by AI writing in professional advertisements now and it's like, bro, you let that one slip. Like nobody check that. Yeah. This is one of the interesting things also about AI in this era we're living in where almost every other company can decide in advance what kind of business they're in. Lockheed Martin Martin can be a defense contractor, and Apple Computer can dis have nothing to do with defense contracting. And almost every company is either in or out of military use in terms of battlefield products, right? AI is so universal and so uh so flexible. Uh so yeah, it can be used for anything at all, anything at all. Uh it can it can run the accounting system at the Pentagon or it can uh power autonomous drones. And so we're in this weird situation where the the companies are in a position of saying, well , we are choosing to be in Pentagon contrasting or not by a matter of contract or policy, as opposed to what the nature of the product is. And so it's a it's a weird kind of a thing. And and they also I also believe that it's not only a we we're talking about anthropics marketing, it's also a marketing thing. Oh, we're the ethical company, but it's also they probably have to deal with employees, right? So employees nowadays will walk out or boycott or do whatever uh if companies like Google, for example, are have contracts with the Pentagon, even non-lethal ones. And so that's another concern that these companies have to do. It's a it's a it's a completely un established norm that we're dealing with. And so Anthropic has one norm and OpenAI has another norm. And so far anthropics is the one that's winning out in the court of public opinion. Well and they so we I think we have to give we do have to give anthropics some credit here because if you look back through all the history of technology companies working with governments and the governments doing things and people getting upset about then the governments using these technologies to do things that the gov the public doesn't agree with. What the technology companies throughout history have said is like we just make tools. How people use them is up to them. So IBM supplied Germany with technology in the well-documented, you know, in during World War II. Um I companies, modern companies like Microsoft and Google have gotten taken to task for um giving the the government uh technologies that they've used that have been used by not just our government, but other governments, um, to do things that are very anti-democratic, right? That could support some very unsavory things. And everyone has kind of always said, with with a few, only a few exceptions. Th areese tools we we can't we can't decide how they're using. I think anthropic doing what it's done and it has sort of its pros and its cons . But the one thing that it said is like we understand this technology better than the the government does because we're using it every day. And it's not ready and s to be used in some of these situations, or it could be used in ways that could be really, really negative, a net negative for humanity . And so we're not comfortable allowing our technology to be used for those things. And so um we're not gonna go along with it. That's f somewhat, you know, new and novel. I mean, we saw um Google pulling out of China , that's a that's a you know a a thing that's somewhat similar, right? But still um standing up to the US government a US company standing up to the US government uh it's pretty new for for that to be um to be a thing. So a couple of last questions before we move on . Uh we're all acting as if AI is the real deal at this point. The the the the days of saying oh it's a parlor trick, it's just spicy autocorrect, we can agree now it's not the case. This is remarkable technology that that is about to change things That is correct. We are doing that. I think we can agree. We're not debating anymore whether AI is real. Now, this is the other question. Is this AGI? Is this general intelligence? It's pretty darn good. I don't we haven't tried mythos. EGI is also but even 4-6, Opus 4.6 is pretty darn good . Yeah, I think AGI is fully, fully uh developed it. Anyone's hey, yes, there's a dream of it and there's ideas of what it should look like. But I think we won't really know what it looks like until it gets beyond what it looks like. And one of the things like I I I think most of us probably don't pay much attention to the benchmarks anymore because they don't really mean much. No, get benchmarks. When you look at the um the software bench jump between 4-6 and Mythos ? Yo, that's some like Lance Armstrong level. There's still, I have to say though, to be fair, there's still some question about whether in fact even anthropologic ra ised this in his system card, whether uh Mythos already knew the answers and and was kind of cheating, right? This is also true. So you think about it though. Last month, right ? It seems like, you know , Anthropods was over here dropping new updates every two days. So I'm like they were using this in house to create out. Clause they were coming out with hey, we did this and then Tuesday. Hey, we did this and then Wednesday. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that actually might be more proof than anything. So in the chat room, there's some uh there's some demand for a d definition of AGI. So I think one one good definition is Amazon Web Services and Wikipedia both define it as theoretical self-teaching software that matches or beats human thinking. So that's so very super vague. And like like Jason was saying, it's it's will be and is being used as a as a marketing thing. But essentially, I think what we can say is that AGI, one one good metric, is that AGI is better at all people at one thing. Right. And super intelligent uh AI is AI that's better than all people at all things. And we're not there yet. We're nowhere near that. But AGI, probab ly AGI, I mean, I think it depends on the thing that it's better at, right? So I think it may not be as good as Einstein at theoretical physics, but you know what? Calculators are better than I am at arithmetic. We've always had machines that are better than we are. Bicycles are better at me than me at running . So uh that isn't much of a bar. Hi, this is Benito. But so the problem here is that there are a lot of things that we say better or worse that are very subjective that are not objective . Well that's true too. And that's why these benchmarks may be interesting. Yes. I I feel let me put it this way. It is a feeling. And I feel like when I'm interacting now with Opus 4.6 . It's it's I'm not saying it's conscious. It's very good at doing the things it does. It's really good at it. And so to me, uh that's the there is a there is a breakthrough. There's a bar it's risen to of some kind. AGI is a bad term. There's also uh you know there's also kind of situations where it's clearly I mean f l give you one example, we've all seen these amazing Chinese uh drone swarm shows, right? That sort of replacing fireworks. Okay. You if you got five thousand people with with remote controls, they couldn't do that. No. Right. So so that that's something the only those that software can do. That's not necessarily AI. That could totally be deterministic software, right? It totally could. It totally could. But my point is that there there are certain there's there are lots of applications where only AI can do it. Yes. People couldn't. Well, there are applications only a computer can do. I think we're gonna I think we're gonna find I think AI, AGI and superintelligence as a terms, I think are anachronisms. I think what we're gonna find is we're going to move past, and the industry is kind of already moving past this, that we had this goal for a while that we were gonna have one model to rule them all. We're gonna have the smartest and whoever landed with the smartest model that was good at everything, that was going to be the win. And the company that did that, then that model was going to be able to train itself and train the next model and that and that company was going to win. And really the industry's moved past that now. And has said that you know what what we're realizing is actually this functions more like human intelligence, which is who's if we all think of like who's the smartest person that we know. And um okay, I'm gonna think of somebody who I know which is my uncle who worked at um NASA JPL laboratory and I could go to him and I could ask him a lot of things about a lot of things, but I couldn't ask him necessarily what's his pick for the, you know, NCAA final for next year or the Kentucky Derby or all of that, right? So intelligence is uh you know uh artificial intelligence is gonna is modeled after human intelligence and so it's gonna function very similarly in that we're gonna and we are already seeing this we're gonna have some models that are outstanding like Claude at coding and it's gonna go way beyond what are humans are capable. And then we're gonna have other even tasks that are now task specific models, domain-specific models that are really good at one task or one domain of intelligence, and they're gonna be incredible at that, just like humans experts are. And I think that the AGI thing is gonna slowly sort of fade away as the the sort of um finish line for this and it's gonna be get more about who can build the best models for specific things. That's really where I think we see the industry moving and uh away from this idea of like AI and it's gonna have conscious ness, it's going to be, you know, uh incredible and it's going to be one model to rule them all. I think, I think that idea is going to slowly die. I think that's exactly right, Jason. I think it's our own innocence that makes us think, oh, we're about to hit AGI and then we're going to hit superintelligence. And once we get to the point where it's like the Turing test, right? It was like, oh, some some computer's gonna pass the Turing test. Now it's a banality that everything can pass the Turing test. And it turns out the touring test was a nothing burger. It doesn't it's like not even a good test, right? So there was also a huge craze in the nineteen twenties, right, of the mechanical man where they would go to state fairs with this thing that would have a voice courtesy of a record player that was inside. It was smoke cigarettes and all this stuff. And it's like every like all the all the all the farmers and stuff who saw that said, Oh, we're two or three years away from people being replaced by these mechanical men. Right. Well, no, no, not even a lot of people . No. I mean it's you watch one of these things loaded dishwasher, it's like you silly . Even all of what what um Boston Dynamics does and then when when every time I go to corporate, I drive right past there, like I see it, I'm like this really cool. I as a nerd, I enjoy it. You know, we grew up watching robot shows, but there's still a long way off. And I think the funny thing is I think the way we feel about it is a little bit different from the people who never grew up watching all the missus. See, we've had the opportunity. Mike just nailed it so tightly in my brain, I could explain this better . Why are you not scared? Like all my people ask me all the way, why are you not scared of this? Whatever. And I guess you gotta remember, we grew up watching all the things that were supposed to happen in the next couple years and none of them has happened. Because it's the computers isn't as dope as you think they are. Or when people complain about the algorithm for YouTube, and I'm like programmatically that can't work. And the reason why you believe this myth is because you don't understand enough computer science to understand, they can't code what you think it's doing. It doesn't know how to pick you out of billions of people and take your video and push it down so nobody sees it. No one's watching your video because the video sucks. You just don't want to believe that. So it's easier to think that YouTube is stopping from some somebody from seeing your video. So Mike, you nailed it because of we've saw all the movies, we've been through the Asimovs, we've been through, you know, Star Wars and Star Trek and all these other things, and we saw what it's supposed to look like. And I think that's what some of us are thinking about it, Genji. Other people are thinking about it because they don't have a a a long enough time on the planet to have seen that, yeah, this is not what you think, and we're still a long ways off. We're gonna take a break and uh I'm s this is a good panel to discuss this stuff. I will I think we do have to talk about open AI because you're old. We've been here, we've seen it we've seen it all. And we're human, damn it. And we're human. As far as we know, we're human. That scares me a little bit too. Mike Elgin is here. Uh machinesociety.ai uh is a great newsletter. You should read it absolutely. Uh we'll talk about his uh his amazing tours that he does with uh Amira Elgin, his wife uh all over the world at gastronom a.net. It's great to have you, Mike, from Tuscany from Global, Kentucky, Jason Heiner, uh longtime ZDNet uh stalwart, formerly editor-in-chief. He's now editor-in-chief at the deep view. He's taken the AI plunge, the deepview dot com . I think we've all seen the writing on the wall, right? That this we gotta this is the next big thing. I mean, I've seen people say, and I don't disagree with it, it's it's as big as or bigger than the industrial revolution. This is a huge leap for mankind, for better or worse. And there were bad there was bad things about the industrial revolution, and nobody can deny that. Also here, Doc Rock, the Doctor of Rock. He is a director of strategic partnerships at Ecam, good friend YouTuber at Doc Rock on YouTube . Great to see you as well in the purpleness of the grotto . Our show didn't there was a San Francisco radio guy who uh he did a radio show. He was in a normal studio, but he always described it as the purpleness of the grotto late at night, Al Jasbo Collins, and he had an owl, he said that he would talk to . And he created such a word picture. I still see him in the purpleness of the grotto. But you actually are in the purp and purpleness of the grotto. Yeah, it's a it's an homage to Alzheimer's dark org because of my father-in-law who's no longer with us and my mother who is going into the deeper states now. So I just want to remind people that all the stuff that we're talking about, I I love it and I'm in it, and I'm a hardcore nerd. But what I wanted to do, AGI, is solve Alzheimer's. Yeah. And then I'm cool. Because out of out of us on the panel, mathematically, three of us will have uh someone in our lives or a a partner or whatever who gets dementia slash Alzheimer's. So it's just in the back of my mind. Oh, so now both ninety three. Yeah. There you go. Both Alzheimll serend' it. I had a I had a grandmother too, just passed away. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a good thing. I figure if my mom and my dad both have it, I'm on the road to the purple. The purpleness of the radio. Why I keep my brain working so hard. I'm like, please not . Exactly. It's also why I'm I'm working on my Obi-Wan because he's going to take over at some point for my for my memory and my mind. Uh thank you for all three of you for being here. It's great to have you. This episode of This Week in Tech is brought to you by our great friends at Bitwarden , the trusted leader in passwords, passkeys, and secrets management with over 10 million users across 180 countries and more than 50,000 businesses. I saw a bitword in it, R second, what's really exciting, consistently ranked number one in user satisfaction on both G2 and software reviews. And they are always adding features. This is one of the reasons. They're always adding features businesses need, individuals need. For instance, Bitwarden access intelligence. This is for enterprise. With it organizations can identify the the, you know, there's always this gap. What are your employees doing with these credentials you've given them? 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Get started today with a Bitwarden trial for free of Teams or Enterprise Plans, or get started for free forever across all devices, unlimited passwords, passkeys, secrets, all devices as an individual user, bitwarden.com slash twit. That's bitwarden.com slash twit. We thank them so much for their support. This weekend tech . So there was an article in the New Yorker, very, very long article by Ronan Farrow uh and uh Andrew Mains. I can't remember his last name. Um it was essentially a takedown of Sam Altman. Uh why it says, can we trust this guy who's in charge of OpenAI, one of the most consequential technologies ever . Um they didn't accuse him of anything illegal, as far as I could tell. I mean, maybe the SEC needs to investigate some of this stuff, but there's not been an investigation outside of OpenAI. Some people took it pretty seriously. Sam Altman got firebombed at three forty five in the morning uh a couple of nights ago, he says in his blog post, thankfully it bounced off the house, no one got hurt, but not only was he there, his family uh was there . Um he apologiz es in the blog post. He says, I haven't always been the best steward of OpenAI. I haven't always been the best human being . But there are some things I'm proud of as well as some mistakes . Um Um I don't know. Where do we stand on Sam Altman OpenAI? So I read the uh uh I subscribed to the New Yorker and read the whole article and it's long article. I did too, and devoted a whole morning to it, yeah Essentially to me, the biggest transgression described in there it was a very well-resourced article. And of course Ronin's. Yeah. Yeah. Is that basically he, spent the first few years of OpenAI spinning a tail to prospective AI engineers about their uh sort of their public benefit corpor ation type mission where they they were going to uh make AI benefit mankind. And they even had a a thing in their charter where if somebody else reached AI AGI before they would, they would throw all their resources behind that other company to help them. That sort of thing. And he used that, according to the article, the the they accused him of using that sort of message to get engineers to work for OpenAI at lower salaries than they could get elsewhere. And then when they went to um investors, they had the opposite story. We're all about profit, we're gonna take over the world. We're going to do all this stuff. Please invest in us. So he basically was to had a story telling each person whatever they wanted to hear for maximum benefit of the company. And so um the way that um that Alt man characterizes this in his blog post is he says I'm not proud of being conf conflict averse, which has caused great pain for me and OpenAI. So he's accused of lying and and Sam Altman is basically defending himself by saying he's conflict averse. They accused him of that too. I mean they they said that was the root cause of some of the things was he would lie Right. That's not what you were just talking about. Exactly. So it's this when it gets down to the money, getting people at lower salaries and then getting more investment telling opposite stories. That to me was the biggest transgression. Again, not illegal probably. Kind of kind of a Theranos type of slimy approach. It's a little slimy. Well now now Theranos was illegal and she went to jail for deceiving the investors . So Yeah. I you know, I I think first first of all with the firebomb, we don't know that it's connected to the New York s New Yorker story story. So we shouldn't we should be thoughtful about that. You know, uh hopefully they find, you know, whoever did it. And whatever anybody thinks about Sam Altman, um, there's just no excuse for that. You know, I I you do I just hated to see them, you know, firebombing his house or trying to firebomb his house. You know, thankfully nothing, you know, bad happened. But uh I I just think that this narrative uh was a little opportunistic because i i i think that sam altman has long been accused of sort of talking out of both sides of his mouth sometimes you don't raise 1 22 billion dollars the largest raise in history, which was just last month, without being a salesman. That's right. And and salespeople, right? You know how to talk to some people this way and other people that way. Um but but I think one of the things that , you know, has happened, I think the reality of what happened with OpenAI was they originally started it because they were afraid of Google controlling, you know, the most powerful technology in the world. And they're like, we want to offer a counterpoint to Google because they had concerns about uh about Google's own sort of ethical center, right? And so they were like, let's create something that is a little bit more uh a little bit more altruistic uh and that's where it started. And then over time, open AI became a much more important company and the opportunity became much bigger than I think they even originally considered it was , um, at least commercially, and they they had a chance to uh, you know, chat GPT became so popular in a way that I think that even surprised them. I mean, they've said this clearly. There's plenty of of that. And then they were like, okay, we could turn this into something way bigger as a public company. That's why the whole thing they had to redo the deal with Microsoft and all of that. So I think I just think then the New Yorker narrative is maybe a little too clean. I don't know that it would exactly happen. Maybe in retrospect, right, things become a lot clearer. But I think what we know is that, you know, Altman is opportunistic. Everybody's always known that. I I do think that the I I think he's not quite as nefarious as he's pointed in that article. I think being opportunistic and nefarious is a continuum, maybe. And so um, you know, we'll we'll see, but I I think that the company now knows uh that they have this incredible opportunity, and yet they also know that they they've been losing the narrative over the last six months, right? That anthropic has become the good guys of of AI and they have been painted as the bad guys. And they're very much conscious of that. And they're trying to think of okay, what do we need to do ? Because they need the support of the public in order to to pursue this mission that they want, because they're ultimately gonna need to have a lot of people have confidence in in who they are. And they're also going public in the next this year, right? That's right. So they need to win over. Yeah. They need to win over investors and they need to win over the public in a way that they aren't right now. And I think they're really grappling with who we are and what is Do you think we can trust Dario Omode, the CEO of Anthropic ? I feel like that I mean look at Steve Jobs, look at Bill Gates, look at I mean Jack Welch, look at I can I know all the people. The difference is shouldn't we have uh a a higher level of uh uh of ethics for people controlling companies that could terminate mankind? Well we could have a higher level of ethics for people controlling companies . Period. Yes, we should. Isn't there a shouldn't be a higher bar? Well and that's what the so this is the article by Rona Ferrero and let me get his name right, Andrew Morance. That's the headline. Sam Altman may control our future , can he be trusted? And if you read the article, the answer to that is obviously no. Yeah. Yeah. No one should trust Sam Altman . Um, can you trust OpenAI? I guess is the next question. Does Sam Altman reflect open AI? Because as you pointed out earlier with the anthropic discussion, Mike, the engineers have a lot of weight here. It's not Sam Altman's company exactly. But but the the lead engineers who were initially brought in, two guys are I spacing on their name, but they were they had very high bars for ethics for the company and they were very, very concerned. He was sort of strung them along, saying, Yeah, yeah, that's what we're gonna do. And so I I think I think to a certain extent mi many of these AI researchers and engineers we can and should trust. And they should be that those are the kinds of people who should be in charge of of the decisions around around AI safety, I think, other than this kind of weasley salesman. Right. Did you all see the um the document that that uh that openai published um this week? It's called in d it's sort of went under the radar, but it's called industrial policy for the intelligence age, ideas to keep people first um is this policy document policy blueprint yeah so I got to talk to uh this was on the deep view but I got to talk to the the lead researcher um you know on this and um uh Adrian Ekofe. And so um the interesting thing, this is again, I think them trying to say, uh, look, there are a lot of opinions inside OpenAI about how this could go, right? That this being the the sort of AI revolution unfolding and bringing a lot of things. And this document, so this was about 30 researchers, 30, 35 researchers, and then their policy team worked on this document. And there's some pr interestingly in there, there's some really um that it's divided into two parts essentially, which is about the economics and then about building a resilient society. So really about keeping AI safe and under human control . And so in this document, the the researchers sort of unfold a bunch of ideas. And these are like some pretty, I I I thought of them as like not radical , but you know, revolutionary in their scope. So they talked about creating a public wealth fund so that, you know, the government, like the US government in this case, investing in these AI companies as they go public and then sort of distributing the benefits to to the populace. Now this is very controversial idea. It's sort of like, you know how in Alaska, if you're an Alaska citizen, like everybody benefits from the oil there. It's sort of like that that model. I like that. I like that model. I think that's good. Yeah. So so and then they talked about a system to do that. It's called the tax system. So they get to the tax system too. So it's interesting to hear they had AI driven corporate gains and automated labor. So basically taxing companies that are replacing human workers and earning higher profits, that they should pay higher taxes, right? If they're if they're displacing workers. Another one was 32 hours. But those taxes maybe should be dedicated to supporting the people they've replaced. That's exactly the the the thing in there, right? No, these are these are just ideas, right? They they said list is not a final thing. This is like a thought starter. This is the problem with that article though. Now everything that comes out of open AI, I'm gonna see through that lens of oh, is this just more you know slimy propaganda? Or is it virtue signal ing, right? This is what virtue signaling. When we were talking about it at the Deep View and Nat Rubio licked our senior reporter and I were sort of debating the story. This is one of the things that we were thinking about. But there are a couple other things that were interesting. Sort of last two are just the 32-hour four-day work week, which is which is if if AI is making workers more productive, let workers get some of the benefits of it and not just go to the company's bottom line, right? Reasonable idea. And then the last one was, you know, a right to AI, similar to like broadband and electricity, where we sort of have uh subsidized universal access so that not just the people with resources are the ones that end up benefiting for the technologies. This gets to sort of the earlier thing that we were talking about before. So I bring all of that up just to say that, you know, even to the point we were just on, even within open AI, there's some real diversity of uh of approaches to the this larger problem and i'm sure it's the same at anthropic and google you know as well and and what we want is we want more people with a seat at the table. So I having open AI being willing to release this thing into the world, support the researchers on their team putting this together and release this out to the world is something that, I mean, look, they again they're looking to change the narrative about you know what's going on and how people think of them. So it has a lot of benefits for them. But it also I think we should still think about conversations like this and what Altman said about this document is that like, look, he's been through multiple transitions. We we know he's been through mobile and social and all these. And he says, the more time we have to debate them, the public has to debate them before they become like urgent in an emergency is a good thing. And here's the one part that scared me about it. The last thing is like Altman told this story in there, you know, about sort of pre-pandemic and them sort of realizing because of the data they had that the pandemic was coming and it was going to be pretty bad. And and he talked about like this moment where we're more m you know more powerful models are about to be released as sort of like that. And that sort of gave me pause of like, he's he's he's a little scared, right? He's he's a little scared that these new models are coming and they could cause some problems. And before they get out there, let's like at least get the conversation going. Cause like in the US, because they talked about um, you know, this being a new what we need is a new deal style set of things for AI, a new deal for AI. And we're so far from that right now. In the US, the conversation around AI is so, you know, rudimentary and so you know early that we're so far from that. Uh and so I think we need more of these kinds of things. And that's why, you know, shows like this are great, right? Where we can help get some of those discussions started. It's really a shame how far behind we are. And and the the the the country we're far behind uh of is China, which is which has banned uh you know relationship apps for teens, it's banned all kinds of things like that, some of the dangerous things, without uh you know, they're still full speed ahead on on competing with the US uh in in AI. Um and also all these great ideas about how to redistribute uh the power dynamic uh that comes from AI and the money and all that kind of stuff. Those those are great ideas. And uh unfortunately it's they they seem unlikely given the current politics. I mean we should be taxing high fructose corn syrup and subsidizing fresh fruits and vegetables. But instead we subsidize high fructose corn syrup. Like there's a million things like that that we're doing the opposite of what we should be doing for the common good, for the for the public benefit. And so we just need we just need a uh better politics is what we need . Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. The the one thing that was interesting about the the concept of tax ing the companies that have the you know sort of using AI you know to invest their process. Well if they're smart you have your your agent go out and find you every possible loophole, which is way better than a good shyst er finding you a good It's true. They're very good at that. Right? So I mean, yes, it it's a brilliant idea. And I think it should happen that way. But of trust me, you me, they're gonna figure out where they can get some holes in and like how they can put money in some certain places and have it feed like there was a thing before where Amazon had to come in and basically eliminate the process of um using gift cards because they were untaxable because the money doesn't really exist. And when that happened, I remember like that messed up a whole bunch of people who were basically using zip uh gift cards as a loophole. And it seems so weird. The people that don't know about it, they have no idea what they missed, but the people that knew about it, they were buying literally hundreds of thousands worth of gift cards and never paying taxes on it because the money was never real, so to speak. That's wait a minute. So you could convert your money into Amazon gift cards, spend those like money. Amazon, Costco, gasoline, booth crisps, steakhouse, but why taxable. I mean, that money was income to begin with. I don't understand how that's gets it was a weird thing. Uh this was probably uh is it was middle two thousands and then they were like, No. So you couldn't convert I do remember that. Yeah. So okay, so for instance, um I gotta find me some good loopholes. You were I I would get a little bit of a tag. Right. I would get a lot of Amazon affiliate income because I made a video about changing an SSD in a Mac and some famous musician got a hold of it and it saved this concert and he he tweeted about it. Oh, so you take it in gift cards instead of money? Correct. Correct. So what happened, he he he put the tweet out, all of a sudden my Amazon affiliate revenue goes up into like eight, nine grand and then I would just turn that into gift cards. Say don't give me any cash. And now they don't let you do that. They don't let you do it like that. You can't tax the funding. Box or buy some plane tickets or other stuff. One last thing before we move on. OpenAI is backing a bill according to Wired . It's an Illinois bill that would limit when AI labs can be held liable, even in cases where their products cause mass death or financial disasters. Yeah, I bet open AI's back in that . Like we're scared of the whiskey faster. Or the gambling concerns. I mean, there's a lot of businesses in this country that are not good for children and other living things, but we don't ban 'em. You know what's fun Calci, yeah. Like, yeah, come on, dudes. Like the minute we start getting uh bet companies tacked onto our uniforms like they do in the UK, uh we we've definitely changed some things. So again, we're looking we're you know that thing um Leo when the guy used to come around Comdex and he would always do like slide a hand and he'd be talking to you, shake your hand next you know he's holding your watch. Yeah. He used always walk around all of the computers. I I forget his name, but he's a Vegas resident. Which was basically trying to drum up people to come to his show. Right. That's what we're doing. We're yelling at the end. I want my watch back. Okay. Dude, all the other people are still doing the crazy stuff while we're yelling at AI. It's like while they're distracted by AI. Let's go change some drug policies or you know, get another. Everybody's looking at Sam Ollman. Meanwhile, Elon's getting trillions of dollars in government uh fund ing . Yes. But but back to this uh this uh protecting the think of the ad companies protecting them from critical harms SB three forty three four four four four four. Uh, one of the funny spins about this is basically it would essentially retain the illegality of murder for humans, but essentially make it legal for AI. AI. But also they're they're Yeah. Exactly. And and if somebody creates a bioweapon using AI or something, they don't want to be held liable for any any of that stuff. A little more approximate. Yeah. When they're when they're looking ahead to the future of agentic AI, they don't want to be held liable But I think you know, I I think we need to be careful about uh about these blankets. Um , you know, I think we there has to be a lot of pressure on companies It's another Amazon gift card loophole. the Pentagon uh controversy that said this on CBS News, the interview, um, first interview he did after it, I believe it was, um, that the company was not necessarily against uh these machines or AIs being able to have lethal capabilities. What he was against was that the the the technology was not good enough in its current form to be reliable to do it. Um, and so I think that's a really important distinction to make. And that's not to, you know, I gave them some credit earlier for doing what they did, but I I think people run around saying like they're they're blanket against it. They're not, actually. They're they're like their their thing was that these models are not good enough. They're not accurate enough. They're not reliable enough in their current form to do it. And they didn't want to be responsible. And the Pentagon isn't reliable enough in its current form. And I think they suspect that if they d used anthropic to do some weapons thing, the weapon went and and did some horrible uh act, right? They know the Pentagon would blame Anthropic. Well don't we think uh Palantir was involved in the targeting of that children's school, uh the girls' school that was destroyed in the first bombing in Iran as the war began? Don't we think that that was tar there's some dis debate over how that was targeted. That story is out there, yes. Yeah. Uh and we know Palantir uses anthropic um and is widely used for military purposes. I mean it's also although it's used for many things, it's also used for choosing chairs apparently in the . Right. And then even if you go to like um Atwood, Samson, Raven Knox, these are US rope companies, bro. No one's ever sued a rope company for the amount of suicides or hey the the stuff my people went through a couple of years back. Like we can't go back and su suee the rope companies. It was the the idiots wielding the rope. It's the people. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And like if I thought I could do a class action lawsuit against Raven R. Samson and U.S. rope, I would have done it already. Right. You know what I mean? So it's it's such a weird thing. But it just looks weird when they try to push for it. Well you know what I mean? No matter what, even if AI does something like that, it's gonna be a human behind it ultimately, right? It's always there's always gonna be a human . In the same way that that school that was hit, which is horrible, right? Like it's it's you know, reprehensible. Let's also remember that that government built that elementary school right next to their nuclear facility for a reason. Because they didn't want people to aim at it 'cause for they were worried. It would they were using them as they were using children as a human shield, right? So it's a cu it's a complex story. There's some debate over whether it was you know, old information that was the problem, there's a lot of uh debate over it. So I don't I don't necessarily cast dispersions on anthropic or palantir, but that's part of the discussion. That was in the air, and that's one of the reasons I think debate happened. Let's take a break. Come back with more . That's enough AI . Enough. Enough. I know I just hear people in my head going, enough AI. Or maybe that's my AI. I don't know. Could be . Before the show, we were having a fine conversation with uh with Obi-Wan over my rabbit. Uh great panel. Good to have you. Jason Heiner, Doc Rock, Mike Elgin, dear friends all. It's so nice to see you. Nice to see all of you too. Thank you for joining us for TWIT uh this week. Our show this week brought to you by ZipRecruiter . Did you know the average employer has to sort through roughly 2 50 resumes per job opening. That's the average. Talk about a time consuming, talking about a waste of time. 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That's zippercruiter .com slash twit meet your match on zippercruiter zippercruiter dot com slash twit we thank them so much for their support of this week in tech it is good I should say it is good to be just as it was good for Levi's to be the company that made the blue jeans for the gold miners, it is good to be the provider. Nvidia has done very well. Sams ung, which has had financial issues in the past few years says they had an eight-fold jump in profit this quarter because AI chip demand. They do make chips. And uh it's been very AI's been very, very good for them. Thirty seven point nine two billion dollars in profit for the first quarter. Yikes. It's good working. Korean economy, right? Oh yeah. Oh huge chunk of it. Yeah. You know else is doing all right ? Not XAI . SpaceX, uh I remember last year had I think eight billion dollars in profit. But remember they merged or Elon merged XAI with SpaceX, XAI, his AI company, which is a money loser, with SpaceX, which is a moneymaker. And as a result, the resulting Beast with Tubac ks, five billion dollar loss last year, eighteen and a half billion in revenue, but they lost five billion dollars. Not SpaceX . Really. I think it was uh it was XAI . Yep. Um X uh XAI, well, SpaceX, because that's all called SpaceX now, spent heavily this is according to uh the information spent heavily on chips and data centers for XA I $13 billion in capital expenditures expenditures. That's fifty percent more than they spend on rockets and satellites combined . So we know what business they're in now . Speaking of which, by the way, congratulations uh to NASA. Real success with Artemis. Uh, and I think we were all watching the whole, I don't know about you, I was watching the whole mission with just joy in my heart. We needed some good news and fascination. I know there's probably no real reason we should be going to the moon or Mars, but it sure is inspiring to watch people get together, people from all over the world get together and accomplish something so remarkable. I I uh I just made me feel good. Yeah. Very inspiring what's the reason to do anything? I mean, we want to achieve things. We want to we it's like a it's like a fantastic thing. And I also think it this whole event showed where we're at in terms of prioritizing bad news over good. The fact that it all went so well meant that most people I mean we're we're all we're all nerds and so we were super into it, but the the the public at large was kind of indifferent to the story because Is that true? Nobody was you know, I just watched The Martian, uh, because I really I love Andy Weir's works, his books, and uh I had just seen uh Project Hail Mary and I Lisa and I had a little friendly debate which is better, the Martian or Project Hell Mary, and having just seen Project Helm Mary, I said, I think it's as good as The Martian. We watched The Martian last night. No, it's not. The Martian. Martian's better. Brilliant. And there's a moment in the Martian, you know, uh spoil it. Can I could I spoil this movie? It's 10 years old now? I don't think so. Where uh they're the final bit of the mission to rip to rescue the uh the Martian. Uh and everybody around the world, they're all standing in Times Square watching the TV screens and stuff like that. I remember that happened in nineteen sixty-nine when we walked on the moon. I don't know if that happened for Artemis. In fact, I know it didn't. But there was interest, or am I wrong? Maybe it was just us nerds. There was interest, but there wasn't near ly a nearly enough interest. That was pretty amazing. And probably more people saw this than Apollo. It's a good point. There's more people. There's more people in the world. Yeah, there's like twice as many. Much more so than they were in 1969. And by the way, the technology for photography and transmitting those photographs back to Earth is so much better. I will say the thing for me as I'm watching the splashdown, and this is not intentionally morbid, but it's a little morbid. Um, being from Hawaii and remembering I was in Hawaii in 8 6 , watching you know, this comeb andack remember ing Challenger, like I'm just sitting there watching it with a different level of paying attention. Well, it's true. We've seen disaster. We know it's not safe. That it's very risky. So when I'm sitting there and we're watching this and my other half is on the couch and then like when the first drag shoots come out, I'm like, okay, that's good. And then I'm like and then they cut away, you know. She's like, What happened? I go, Okay, that's now we're gonna get the three. We're gonna get the big three. And then she's like like, What are you talking about? Just hold it, lady, stop stop talking. 'Cause I'm legit squeezing. I I am having some sphincter tension waiting for the the actual touchdown. That will not be the show title, I promise. And she it it she was young at the time, right? We're eleven years gap. And so in eighty six. She would have been nine. So she knew it from school, but like not the same way as you know, I'm sitting there looking at it at 19, a little bit different, but I remember just like a sense of release once, you know, you saw the water, you know, and then when the boats all pulled in. And then she was like, Well, what are the other guys doing? Well, they're putting the the outer raft around the outside. So because you just see all these different boats moving around again. One is camera crew, one is like safety team. And it was something dope about watching them walk out of the hole. Then I felt like I could let go. And I just think a lot of people in Hawaii I've talked to other friends, like we all sat there and watched it with a different lens. And the coverage really is much much more detailed, better. So much better now. Yeah. Yeah. This is the furthest we've thrown a rock into space, man. This is the furthest we've thrown a rock. Like that's the whole thing. 50 years. Yeah. And you know, we weren't further than that. This is the furthest we've ever thrown a rock. Yeah, furthest seasons of a lot of things. Okay. Yeah. I I think there will be a lot of people, maybe even in Times Square, watching the next moon landing, right? When somebody's getting out of Artemis . Oh yeah. I don't know, is that Artemis IV or I don't know which one that is. It's not the next one, I don't think. Uh then people will be paying attention. I hope people can see it as a victory for the world . I think it's good a good idea. If you think this was unnecessary or whatever, or just a ploy to distract whatever, I think it's a good idea to go um listen to some of what neil degrasse tyson says about why we should be doing this right what's the case he has a couple different speeches one at night y 92 about a case for nasa and like a case for research. And so like again with you, I just I appreciated it just because when we were kids sitting on the floor in elementary school watching the first couple. Sorry Jason, I know you're not as old as us, but but it was just something like I just remember looking at that as a kid. And at the time, I'm in Beltsville, so I'm not that far from one of the NASA facilities in Maryland. And I just remember looking at that as a kid, like, oh, this is something we all look up to. So the amount of rocket toys we had and then, you know, Evil Kanibo had his little uh shuttle thing that he did a little trick in trying to jump the canyon. Like that was our entire childhood. Lost in space and Star Trek. People trying to do amazing, bizarre. Yeah. Like all of our toys were space oriented. Like we just knew that was going to be a thing. And then somebody just said, Yeah, we're not going to spend money on that . And it just went out the window. It's better doing it. You're right. We can afford it. I I think it's I think it's also revealing about the the mindset where we wouldn't question for a second um money ma making money. Bitcoin or whatever. Or we wouldn't question for a second uh Pentagon spending. The cost of the artist mission in total is about a hundred days of the Iran uh conflict. Right. And you know, yeah, there's people questioning wars and stuff like that. But my point is that why is it so controversial that we do s this great thing to go into space and the engineering behind it, the the the the just the incredible thing. It's like why explore anything? Why understand the mating habits of you know koales or you know it's like we we want to understand. You know that's and and it's cheap compared to so many other things. Yeah. So no, you're right. Thank you. Exploration is like probably the deepest seated human endeavor. Like this is the thing we do. Yeah. Facts. I just I feel like there's a lot of hype about how we're gonna live on the moon or the even crazier live on Mars, that seems like just fantasy, sci-fi fantasy. But maybe not. I don't know. Are we gonna be a interplanetary society? I don't think so. You think about the old school computer movies with the robots in it and the AI. That all seemed like fantasy back then. We just spent an hour. That's a good point. We're living in the fantasy world already. You're right. You're right. When you're right, you're right. I'm sure at some point in time Mike says hey uh uh me and the missus we're moving to Tuscany and every a whole bunch of his friends was like that's a fantasy and Mike was like, watch my suitcase, see you bye. And then you know, and we are cutting money we are cutting budgets on things that probably should n't. For instance, uh USAID still hurts. Yeah. Well, what about CISA? Here we are. We're in the middle of a war with Iran, who has very good hackers. Uh the new budget proposes cutting CESA's budget by 700 million. There's no director right now. The director they had was a problem and uh you know they got rid of him but they don't have any replacement. They've fired many, many, many, many people from CISA. Now they want to cut their budget by $700 million for 2027 . Uh this is all a political thing because the Trump administration uh says that they were er that A there was waste, but more that they were being weaponized politically, which they weren't. Their mission was to secure federal networks, civilian networks against, and critical infrastructure against cyber attacks. And believe me, that's something we don't want to cut back on right now. It wasn't focused on censorship. That's only because Trump didn't like it when in 2020 Chris Krebs, the director, said, Oh, the it was the most uh the 2020 election was the most secure election in history. Trump didn't like that. So now he's punishing them. But guess what? Guess who gets punished ? School safety programs ? Uh uh We're facing, uh especially with AI, more dramatic uh cyber attacks Yeah, it's too personal. And fortunately, Congress stopped him last time. Uh I'm bringing this up so you can write your Congress critter and say, You know what? Uh this is a very important ad uh agency and we we really need it. Put and now is not the time. You know, it was wild to me the last couple of weeks. I've been I have a couple of a couple of flights, you know, during the whole TSA people working for free type of situation. And then I had a wild dawn , you know, Dawn of me situation. The whole reason why we even have TSA was based off of you know World Trade Center Tax Way back in the day. Yeah. And here we are going to an actual war situation and then we're gonna try to mess with the TSA guys. I like that made about as much sense as screen doors on the submarine to me. And then I saw one the other day which is even more wild. Oh, now we're gonna go after the NFL for um what is that thing called? Uh not monopolistic practices, but like uh competition blocking. Antitrust, yeah, because the NFL has an antitrust exemp tion that allows them uh to negotiate as a group. But you know that's about uh not being able to buy the Buffalo Bills like way back in freaking ninety-two or whatever. I'm like , What do you think it's another grudge. A hundred percent. I'm like, are you absolutely joking me? Because your buddies with a whole bunch of these guys, but now some way you were sleeping and somebody brought up not being able to buy the Buffalo Bills and having to start a USFL team and the next day we got the DOJ attack in the NFL. They need to be attacked. Let's let's say the NFL got issues. But son Yeah, I'm not sure they should have an antitrust exemption. The point was that you can't have all these teams negotiating individually. There we go. That they that they 're closer to home. It's so stupid. Closer to home, th Trump also cut the CIS's uh uh uh protection against disinformation firing hundred and thirty employees . Is the disinformation, anti-American disinformation situation getting better or worse? It's clearly getting worse. And yet the said that they killed 800 million bot accounts last 800 million bot accounts last year. And that's definitely not all of them. Uh Russia. No. Take a look at X. It's filled with it. Yep. And and it's for the same reason, because in general, the especially the Russian disinformation was in favor of Donald Trump's reelection. And therefore that uh you know , that wasn't disinformation. That was that was good stu Exactly. So it's it's it's which is way too personal with the president for my taste. And uh it's I think this is this is the only explanation for this kind of these kind of cuts. It just makes no sen these same in terms of thing. If you're thinking we're more secure than ever, um I know a lot of you have used uh CPUID, their CPU Z program, their HW monitor. These are really we've recommended these tools for 30 years now for measuring performance of your PC. Uh it was infected with malware. The site was hijacked, and instead of downloading HW monitor, you were getting malware Uh this happens again and again. There have been two supply chain attacks uh recently on AI, light L L M, uh on NPM. No, that was on PyPI as a Python uh library that was hijacked for 45 minutes, enough time for tens of thousands of people to download it. It was a stealer, a credential stealer. And then Axios, which is on I think MPM, is also a very widely used by among other things, open claw and clawed code, and that was a hij acked. It's not like we're suddenly in a uh a a world where there's no cyber thre ats anymore. Yeah. G and GTA six, the devo the developer, Rockstar Games, was hacked. Ransomware group said, We're gonna leak all of your customers' data if you don't give us a ransom . So uh I mean I don't know what what how much Rockstar knows about its customers. I guess they got credit card numbers. This is all this this is all from this week. This is ripped from the headlines. They're one of the largest of all the things. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They have a I mean, I just don't know. What do they have? They have your credit card. You might have a little more than that on you . But it's not just uh bad guys. The FBI has figured out a way to retrieve encrypted signal messages. They're using iPh one notifications. So I, you know, I this is the first thing anybody watching the show should do is turn off your signal notifications because you notice when you get a signal message, they come in in clear text. Well, Apple stores them, and those are preserved even when you delete the message. 404 Media says the FBI was able to use it to recover deleted signal messages by extracting data in the device's notification. Specifically Signal has a feature where you can tell it to give you the message in the notification that that hands that data to the notification system and this user had that feature turned on. You should turn that off. Turn that off signal user. Uh I don't know who the bad guy was, but the point is the FBI is perfectly willing to do that and has the ability. So if you've been thinking, oh, I'm using signal, we should be we should be secure. I'll give you one more. ICE says, yeah. Yeah, we're using uh you know that software that's created by the uh Israeli company Paragon? The one that gives you zero-click takeovers of people's iPhones? Yeah, we're using that . Uh it's called Graph ite. The agency signed a $2 million contract with Paragon . At the end of the Biden administration, the contract was paused by the Biden administration saying, whoa, wait a minute, hold on. Do we really want to be doing that? Of course, Trump administration revived it last fall . Uh what's App was one of the targets of this. They disclosed early last year that 90 journalists and members of civil society in various countries were targeted with graphite. And uh the ice is using it. And I'm sure they're only using it to go after the worst of the worst. Right? Only the bad guys. Only the very, very worst of the worst. And your landscaper . You better not take my landscaper . You better not touch him. Alright, one more one more story, a supply chain story, but it's not a security story. But it does have to do with uh the war in Iran. Helium . Helium is uh used in the manufacture of uh semiconductors. It's also used in medical instruments . And most of our helium comes from underground pockets where the natural gas collects. It's not a byproduct of natural gas, but it is produced with natural gas extraction. The helium comes up in the pocket. They save it, they sell it, they ship it through where? Oh, the Strait of Hormu z . Thanks to the closure of the strait, helium prices have spiked . Businesses are scrambling to deal with looming shortages. We did, you know, the U.S used to have a strategic helium reserve, but that was sold off 2024. Oh boy. So it's it's used in chip manufacturing. And um, and so if i if that if it's not resolved, it could actually um bring semiconductor manufacturing to a to a hole. You thought we had a shortage? Get ready. Yeah. It's using MRI machines as well. Yeah, MRI. That's right. Yeah. It's got a really low computers anymore. Can't buy computers anymore anyway. That's a good point. If you have a computer, you can buy no, no, but you know, let's be fair. You can buy it. You just can't buy any RAM and you can't buy a video card. But you can get, you know an SSD. Or an SSD. But you buy the case. There's plenty of cases available. And fans. All the fans you want. It's otherwise this. There's a site for computer parts called OnlyFans. OnlyFans. That's it. Did you just think of that? Yeah, I did. Sorry. You should start that site. You know what's really wild? I I did a I was talking to somebody the other day and uh you know this conference I was speaking at last week was all about content creators. This thing I'm going to in England. Oh, name where we said conference. Uh it was in Seattle. And but the one we're going to in England is called Two Fest. And you know, I'm like, for the guys who are still sitting on this process of I need to wait till I get a new camera or a new something in order to do things, like this As it stands now, an SD card that I was buying for thirty-four bucks like a couple months ago is now 1 20 some odd bucks for the same little SD card. I'm like, you really got to get used to shooting on your phone and just enjoying it because the phone is dope. It already has the memory. It already has the storage. And you just got to get it, post it, upload it. And then people like me who hoard all of their B-roll and their excess footage got to delete it because I just bought a 20 terabyte helium drive that I swear I paid $289 for in December. I bought his twin sister like two weeks ago. It was $700 bones. Ooh, that's more than three times more expensive. I had to do it because Synology was like, hey dude, you need some more space. And so okay, cool. I'll buy another drive. And I had every intention to go buy two more drives. And I was like, no, you're not you can buy one because it's just freaking insane. So Venito is so right right now drive prices and memory prices are so crazy. It's it's kind of insane. And everyone's blaming it on, you know the, AI stuff 'cause it's an easy scapegoat. It's not just that. It's supply chain issues, which Leo is trying to tell you, but no one wants to hear that 'cause it's so much easier to blame it on AI. And I swear to you, I would love one day for us to get out and do a deep dive report on AI facilities aren't using as much water as the media likes to put out. A lot of times they're using dirty water or non-potable water, but it's just reported as water. And so all these people are up in arms about how much water AI is using. And I'm like, yeah, you know what uses a lot of water? Golf courses. Thank you. How many golf courses were I live, Leo? You've been here. Golf course. And well, there's what's weird is there's golf courses in the deserts, right? They love 'em in Arizona. They love 'em in Las Vegas. Uh forget the data centers. Let's get rid of the golf courses. The golf courses have actually turned Palm Springs into an ecosystem that's no longer a desert. Oh yeah. It's humid in Palm Springs. So crazy. That's your water. That's your water right there going up in the air. Yeah, but again, it's so easy to blame AI because AI is scary and nobody knows what it is unless they listen to this show. Right. And like, I'm yeah, AI's doing some wild things, but it's also in the hospitals when you have to go through many, many, many, many, many cases to try to figure out this rare You know, and here we are trying to plan a fundraiser in a couple of weeks, and people are are mad, you know, because of AI. And I'm like, yo, they might not have never caught it if it wasn't for the ability for them to comb through this data really quickly. So we just got to get better at balancing pros and cons in general. We've become so binary that it's crazy. Like and and binary about dumb stuff like Xbox versus PS2 or whatever or PlayStation, sorry. That's just dumb. Like we have to do I did I I confess I bought a switch too before the price hike. You're genius. I should have. I didn't I looked and I said it's still four forty nine. I know that's way too much and I don't really need it, but it's only gonna be more, so I'm buying it now. It's so crazy. All right. Let's take a break. Enough of that. Enough gloom and doom . Let's talk about uh some happy stuff. Like, who is Satoshi Nakam oto? Now there's another theory. There's a new theory . There's always a theory. You're watching this week in tech, Jason Heiner, Doc Rock, Mike Elgin. Great to have all three of you. Jason, tell me about the uh deeper view Yeah. So the deep view, uh, I joined in December, December 1st. Um congratulations. Was this a was it that must have been a little risky feeling? A little, for sure. So I uh you know, I'd been working in traditional media for a long time. Uh, but I I had I had two things that I was really that really sort of crystallized for me in 2025, which is that I really I had this thesis about media, the future of media is about direct relationships with the audience, you know, deeper relationships with more specific audiences. So I like that. That's kind of what we do. Yeah. Exactly. Less algorithms send in you users and more you um convincing people that you're you have something that they would like and them subscribing to you, right? So in its various forms, newsletters, podcasts, um, uh other other ways, then I really wanted to work on I really wanted to work on that specifically. And then I the other theory I had was that I was not keeping up in AI, that AI was moving so quickly, that things were were rapidly and that we were about to sort of you know hit this new gear. And I was already not keeping up. And so I wanted to spend all day talking about it, thinking about it, writing about it, learning about it. And I knew that I couldn't keep up otherwise. Yeah. That's kind of I I think we've all done that. I did that. Yeah. Yeah. And then the interesting thing is in, you know, so I I came to the deep view. I started in December. And the that was the month. And as a matter of fact, Leo, you're one of the first ones that that that that said this to me because I was on shortly after I joined and you had just there was a new version of Claude Code that came out in December. November twenty fourth November twenty fourth. Twenty twenty five was when in my opinion everything changed and it was the release of Opus for five. I remember you were telling me you're like, I'm using Claude Code to do all kinds of things that aren't just coding, you know, like it's a it's a true agent. And you were showing me some of these things before the show started, and I was like, Whoa, this is different. Um, and of course, since then, like, you know, with OpenClaw, with the new Claude Cowork, um Perplexity Computer, you know, all of these things now, Codecs um from OpenAI, all of these things have just taken um everything to a to another level. And so I'm I'm so glad that I started when I did because I would not have been able to absorb or keep up. I'm barely am now, you know, with all of these things. And so uh I'm thrilled. So the deep view, just to bring it back, you know, it's a newsletter, it started two and a half years ago. Uh it's been on this amazing trajectory. Now over half a million uh audience, uh audience of over half a million . That's is growing by like 40 or 50,000 um new signups a month. Um and we have uh this perspective that there's a lot of information out there that is very surface level and so we're trying to just give you three stories a day the top three stories and give you a double click on those on those three in the in the main newsletter and then they also brought me in to do other things so we're also doing um a podcast we are doing long form. So we want launched our first uh long form uh two weeks ago that was uh about um so it said the the title is uh AI's um utopian story mas ks a race for power. And it's about the fact that AI tells this story about what it's about, but at the end of the day, it's also centralizing power in a smaller and smaller number of hands. And that's dangerous and sort of anti-competitive. All of these things, it brings up a lot of challenges, can bring up. So just raising the flag on that. And it's interesting because we published that story, you know, in March. And I'm not claiming this, but I will say that it is an interesting parallel that all of the you know big labs have started talking about this idea that they want to see this this um powerful technology democratized . They don't want to see it in in you know as few hands. And so that if we contributed anything, you know, our drop to the ocean in that dialogue, I'm I'm thrilled. And so that's more, we're gonna be doing more of that. We have more long forms coming up that's one of the things um that i spend a lot of time on at tech republic and c net and zdnet and uh something that i'm really uh you know proud of and spend a a lot of time and thinking about which is doing sort of deeply reported and and deeply, you know, thought about uh issues around all of these most important things. And it's gonna be really important in AI in the in the years ahead. Couldn't have picked a better time and they couldn't have gotten a better person to run the joint. I think it's a good match. That's great. The deepview. com. Thank you for doing this, Jason. I read it every w every day. Uh it's a pleasure. Vital subscribe to the newsletter for sure. Yeah, subscribe.thededeepview.com will take you straight to the to the subscription. It's yeah, daily newsletter, top three stories of the day, and we double click on them and tell them tell you kind of why they matter. We have our deeper view on each story, which is our analysis of you know what what it is and why it matters. Very nice. Also here, Mike Elgin. Great to have Doc Rock, Mike Elgin, Jason Heiner. Our show today brought to you by Thret Locker . We just were at ThreatLckero' Zsero Trust World in uh Orlando and what an amazing event. ThreatLocker is a zero trust platform. It delivers the industry's most comprehensive suite of zero trust solutions, protecting endpoints, protecting networks. That's new. Now protecting the cloud, too. That's also new. They announced this to Zero Trust World. 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How many different remote access utilities, for instance, have access to your network? It's it's an eye-opener. Ask Rob Thackeray. He's the end user technical architect at Heathrow Airport. Now Heathrow's had problems in the past. They knew they really needed to do something to keep operations flowing. They cannot afford to be shut down . He said, quote, ThreatLocker was the most intuitive solution we tested, and the responsiveness of the organization, the willingness to engage with us, set up a demo, and work with us on weekly audit reviews was very good. It's great to have an ongoing relationship with a company that is so respons ive to our requests. End quote. Thank you, Rob. Not just Heathrow, Jet Blue, the Indianapolis Colts. Companies that can't afford to be brought to their knees, right? The port of Vancouver. And you know, this is an infrastructure play. You cannot afford to be shut down. Threatlocker consistently receives high honors and industry recognition. 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Visit ThreatLocker.com slash twit to get a free thirty day trial and learn more about how threatlocker can help mitigate unknown threats and ensure compliance. That's threatlocker .com slash twit We thank them so much for their support of this week in tech. Great company with a truly wonderful product. Uh hesitate to say that about John Deere. Of course, they've been the focus of a lot of right to repair fighting . Just lost a big c ase . $99 million dollar fine and a monumental right to repair settlement. But it's not just the money . Uh John Deere is going to make is forced to make digital diagnostic maintenance and repair tools available to third parties for the next decade. Huge victory for right to repair. They have fought it hard. Um as farmers buy these very expensive farm machinery and then can't fix it. They have to go to John Deere to fix it. In in in i in some cases it's been really problematic. They've had to go because they want to fix it themselves to weird third-part softyware from the Ukraine, for instance, to unlock their home repaired tractor . Uh this is not good. It's also skyrocketed the cost of usage on deer equipment. Um, the cost of older tractors doubled, but farmers wanted them because they could repair them . So $60,000 for a 40-year-old tractor? Yeah, good deal. I'll take it. You got any more? Judge still has to approve the settlement. That seems likely. There's another lawsuit from the FTC uh also about right to repair. So it's not over for John Deere, but this is a really important victory, and I wanted to pass this along for right to repair. We're big fans of right to repair, and it's I think very, very important . So it's like cars, right? Like vintage. You need that you can fix those. Yeah, I mean you you it's true that a lot of modern cars, my car, uh I have a BMW also dock rock, but it's an I it's one of the electric ones. And uh there's no way a shade tree mechanic can fix this thing. Oh yeah. You'd have to you'd have to have all the equipment, right? They don't want to touch it. It's funny when you open it and you see the shroud and it's like, yeah, they don't want me touching nothing in here. Don't go in here. Serviceable parts. In fact, it it was so bad. I went to I went needed new tires and the tire guy said, Oh no, it's an EV. I can't I go near it. He wouldn't replace the tires. You you you have to have the exact circumference down, otherwise you mess up all myriad sorts of things. And so even when I was getting the dealer to fix it, she said, Can you walk around and tell me what it says on your tires? I had to read I had to read the labels on the tires to her. She said, Oh good, yeah. Okay, that's good. So is that a good trade-off for you, you think? Oh, uh I yeah. Well nowadays with gas uh in California the gas station down the block is six dollars and fifty cents a gallon. Yeah, which is crazy. That's the first time I've seen it higher than Hawaii, but we're like five seventy. But it's so funny when you drive by, you look at everybody else, they're all pissed off and screaming and we just like Oh, and our European uh listeners are going, what so what? That's nothing. Yeah. You should see what we pay for a leader. What is it? Do you know what kind of trade prices are in uh Tuscany right now? Uh just bought gas. They they yeah, they charge it by liter. It sounds like a good price until you realize you're only getting a liter. But um yeah, it's like it's like basically double, I think, something like that. Yeah. The price of gas generally. Uh Darren in Australia says three dollars a liter in Australia. So I the problem is Is that Aussie dollars though? That might be Aussie dollars. That's Aussie Aussie dollars . And it and the price is not even across the country. Well, we pay six fifty in California because we have kind of draconian rules about refining. Uh General Tabbs says three eighty nine in Massachusetts, but that's still higher, isn't it? Yeah. But every time I go to Mass and you know, I get gas before I go back to Logan to drop the car off, I'm always like, dude, I wish I could put something in my suitcase and take it back. Well Hawaii Well but they but the I mean uh Well it still has to get shipped everywhere anyway, right? Yeah we have a refinery but the crude gotta get shipped here. Right. And we have that I don't know if everybody remembers this, because unless you live someplace like this, you don't really think about it, but there's this thing called the Jones Act. So even if I buy something from Japan or China or whatever, it goes all the way to freaking LA or Alaska first and then comes back. So our shipping like I wanted to order a bunch of filament from bamboo that had a killer sale and the shipping for the filament cost more than twelve rolls of filament. I was like, this is really stupid. That's the Jones Act says something what American shipping has to go through an American port, something like that. Yeah, like this is not a state. This is what we're so dumb about it, because we are an American port. Hawaii is not a state. Well, it is. You know. I know when you take a cruise they have to stop in one international port. If like going on your Alaska cruise, they have to stop in Canada just briefly. Yeah, it's a dumb. Like who comes up with these idiotic rules? And it makes it a little protectionist reason. Uh speaking of protection, Frank uh Frank, my favorite country , Frank. You're going into France, uh, you're driving to France uh a couple of days, right? Mike? Tomorrow. Tomorrow morning. Driving to Paris. France's government is you should do some coverage of this. They're ditching windows for Linu x. Yeah. Saying US tech dependence is a strategic risk. It's a trend, although a lot of European cities have done it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Germany, et cetera. And and you know, China, of course, has been trying to do this sort of this kind of thing for a long time. Uh yeah. It's a very good thing to be tough. Uh they covered this on the title Linux show. There was something going on with uh Open Office. Last month uh they began a project to take open office and make it Euro Office in order to gain independence from Microsoft Office. But some of the open office people were a little bit upset. They said it's a licensing violation um because the EuroOffice code base removed the GPU AGPL license, which you're which they thought was unenforceable and non-obligatory, but in fact that's the whole point of the GPL license is if you fork a project, you have to have the same license. You can't just up to say, Well, now it's ours . So there's a big kerfuffle in the open source community over uh open office and your euro office is not the best name. I'm sorry. Doesn't it doesn't sound good . Did you see what Red Hat did? Now we were talking about IBM earlier and, of course IBM's shameful history of uh collaborating with the Nazis uh during World War II. Their tabulating machines were used to tabulate Jews in the uh Holocaust . Um I don't are they are they added again? Red Hat, which is owned by IBM , is trying to scrub a white paper from the internet. The white paper is was titled Compress theed Kill cycle with Red Hat device edge , showing how it was faster to use Red Hat's products and technologies to well kill people . Um of course there's nothing disappears on the internet. And in fact, the minute you try to shut it down, as uh Mike Masnick calls it the Streisand effect, uh people become aware Wait, what is it? Yes. Did you know that Mike Maznik coined that term? I didn't know it either. He told me. He was the first to call it the Streisand effect. That would remember because Barbara Streisand during her wedding there were helicopters flying over and taking pictures and she sued, which of course nobody was interested in the pictures of her wedding until they sued. Yeah. So in this paper, uh they talk about the find, fix, track, target, engage , assess process to uh for the strategic, operational, and tactical uh levels, delivering real-time data from sensor pods directly to airmen, accelerating the sensor to shooter cycle. You know, it's better with Linux. Everything's better with Linux. I mean, I I don't know. You served uh in Iraq, was it Iraq? Or was it Afghanistan? South America and in Kuwait. Kuwait, that's right. You went back to the oper ation whatever. What was that? Uh shock and awe. Yes. It's um I think if it's our military, I you kind of want them to have the best technology, right? Yeah, again, this I I hate this. I hate, I hate, hate, hate the terminology slippery slope. It's because it's just overdone too many times. However, this is really one of those weird things where, like, you know , I could help us in situations like this, or all of the capabilities can help us in situations like this. But unfortunately, the checks and balances become a little bit unattainable. You know, if it's my boy on the front line or my my my daughter, daughter on the front line, I want her to have the best technology to defend herself and to defeat the enemy. But if if your son's on the front line, we are all distracted by good food and so he'll be in he'll be in the uh in the uh in the kitchen in the KP there doing the uh doing the sandwiches but I mean every both sides is distracted by the food like hey fight's over let's eat uh somebody somebody crack open the ball of the Keante that Uncle Mike's into saying, Yeah, we're gonna dip. I just wanna say, you know. Even though And that's a dance move. I'm surprised they call it Liberty dip in in uh the United States. Oh that's super funny. I know. Anyway. Yeah, you know I I'm I'm really conflicted. This is uh well I think I think the biggest problem with this for them, it's of course and IBM company, is that um you know it's the way it's written. It's not that they're bragging about their technology, it's just it's just very blunt uh language in the document about killing and this that and the other thing. And it's just not this you know I think if if they could rewrite it with euphemisms and you know soften every the language, I think they wouldn't mind that it was out there. It's also hilarious that they think they could scrub something from the internet. I mean that's not happening. No. And they should know that. Nope. Um this one is a little d disturbing. You may remember the Department of Justice went after Ticketmaster. We all cheered when we heard that news. Um , but apparently the DOJ settled with Ticketmaster and Live Nation, a surprise settlement . And they did not consult the litigators before they made that settlement. They end around it went and around them and and settled and ended it . And apparently the litigators aren't too happy. The U.S. Justice Department's top antitrust litigator and three senior trial attorneys now leaving the agency because of that deal with Ticketmaster . So now I wasn't up on on I know why we were going after Ticketmaster. I wasn't up on the settlement. Apparently it wasn't the best settlement. I stopped short but short of a breakup. It allowed Live Nation to keep Ticketmaster. Apparently it came as a shock to the other dozen states that had signed onto the lawsuit, and in fact, more than 30 of them continued the trial. So the trial didn't end, even though the U.S. pulled out of it . The Justice Department actingc Dtorire of Civil Antitrust Litigation, David Dahlquist, announced his resignation Wednesday uh during a hearing in the government's case against Google for illegally monopolizing the online search industry. At the hearing, he said, uh Your Honor, I've given my notice, so here's my colleague. He's gonna take over. See ya . And it's just a larger trend in the executive branch nowadays is they do what they want and they don't feel like they are part of a thing with other with states, with other agencies. They just do what they want. And uh it's too bad. So well and and and I think Biden uh under Lena Khan was very aggressive in antitrust enforcement. Yes. Mm-hmm. And uh his successor perhaps did not fully agree with that and has backed down on a lot of those cases. The Biden administration actually fired a rec filed a record number of cases, more monopolization lawsuits than at any time since the trust busting era of the early 1900s, Trump has moved, the Trump Justice Department has moved to settle several of them and hasn't challenged a merger since January uh twenty twenty-five. What happened in January 2025? They haven't challenged merger since. What was what was I think it was inauguration day, I think was something or other the semin al moment ? Oh, that moment. Oh yeah. No more. No more . Which is, you know what? It's good if you uh if you're one of the big companies looking to um to merge with another big company. It's a great time to be a billionaire in the United States. It is a yes, and if I were one , I would be celebrating. There's a show title. Damn it. If I if only I were a rich man. Going on whatever, and I'm like, you know, I fully agree with you, and I'm not saying that this is right, but trust you me, if you was on the other side of this fence, you would think differently. And like, no, no, no, I would be different. I go, everybody says that. Every yeah, young politician goes into the thing like I'm gonna change this. I'm gonna stop the bos astity that's goes on. Thank you, guy Kawasaki for the word. Uh for of what's going on. And then they get there and they find out they can't do it. They either get pushed back out of office or they end up succumbing to some lobbyist somewhere and there's just countless stories of, you know, people trying to get in there. And I really don't have a solution. I don't know what it is, but it's funny to think that you would be different if you weren't in that in that particular boat. And then even it's funny 'cause in in Leo and I's favorite sport, which is F one. Yes. Like i I'm watching it right now, bro. I'm watching it right now because there's nothing to watch this month because the tables have turned. The races were in Bahrain in Saudi Arabia, not right now the best place to gather hundreds of thousands of people into one small area. Wild, but like when the tables turn, like now everybody's mad, and you know, Max is threatening again to quit because he can't just win every time for doing whatever shady. I know I like it that it's shaking it up, but they're uh we were talking about this last week and there I think Ian Thompson who, is also an F1 fan, hates it. Of course, the Brits hate anything that's happened to F1 since well it's gonna be sun, and when I get to London next week, there'll be sun and they'll be mad that the sunny. But I think it's fun to watch him race and stuff, but apparently it's a little more dangerous because they have to slow down to build up the battery. I'm sorry. Um funny, I made a comment on threads about how much I'm enjoying Max Losing and oh my god his fans came after me bro I was like I never had a more um interactive thread post than the amount of like uh yelling calling me names uh death threats all of the above and I was like, dang, dude, it was I'm just literally I'm a Lewis Hamilton fan. Shut up. So I have to say Apple has done a nice job uh of taking over the F1 broadcast in the United States. And I think they it looks good. It's 4K now and the the audio stole will be stereo and I think it's good. I think I think Lewis secretly had a hand in getting that deal done. He's getting paid somewhere for that. Yeah. Cause now suddenly uh his team is competitive. Correct. And the twelve are going crazy. He's executive producer for the movie, so already. Oh, they have one movie, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think he had a hand in making that happen. We'll find out after he retires how much money he made during this. But I'm just saying, I like the shakeup. Everybody else is pissed off about it. Speaking of billionaires, I su'rem Lewis is getting close. I'm pretty positive. Yeah. Yeah. And uh I kind of like Ferrari. I'm glad to see them uh in and McLaren uh kind of s slipping back and Mercedes is back, which is kind of fun. I'm sorry, we this is such I know but talk about horse racing, uh but we could we could talk about that. We want to talk about hats and hat boxes and safety traveling with hats. Usually usually a conversation on a sh on a show like this about F one is about one of the keys on a keyboard, but it's a totally different Yeah. Yeah. There's a well played, Mike. Well played. Yes. Uh let's take a break. Uh more to come. I do have that Satoshi story, which is kind of interesting. I don't know if if it's real or not, but it was in the New York Times, so we'll get to that in uh just a little bit. Our show today brought to you by DeleteMe. 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It really is a mystery, and there's a reason why it's interesting , besides the fact that he invented something so interesting, is that he holds a huge more than a hundred billion dollars . And nobody's moved those Satoshi coins in years. He disappeared. Is is is he a single person? Is he a group? Is he gone? Is he dead? Is he still alive? No one knows. Now, given his password value, is it we no exactly ? The simplest solution is probably the most accurate, which may be that they've lost the password all those. Also you don't want to be finger to Satos hi because you are now a target for kidnappers, for extortion. I mean, suddenly true the world's gonna beat a path to your door. So you may know the name John Carriero . He was the Wall Street Journal reporter who exposed Elizabeth Holmes and the Theranos scandal, did some really good investigative reporting at the journal. He's now at the Times , and I think if you read the article, I think he kind of became obsessed a little bit with tracking down Satoshi. He spent a year, it says digging through thousands of decades old internet postings in search of Bitcoin's creator . Um, my quest to solve Bitcoin's great mystery. Seventeen years, Bitcoin's creator has been hidden behind the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto. Now , I'm reporting on this just because the Times gave it a lot of play on April 8th. I don't know if it's true. You may have, I don't know if you saw the uh HBO documentary, Money Electric, the Bitcoin Ministry, in which the documentarian claimed to have unveiled at least his reasoning about who was Satoshi, a Canadian software developer who has since disappeared, by the way. Rightly so. I don't want to know. And I wish people would stop. I there was there was another. Should I just stop? Should I just leave it now and not talk about it? No, no, this is not you. This is on them like it it's on uh Kiri you or whatever I it was something else we were talking about and it's like oh everyone's trying to figure out this thing and I can't remember what it is. I'm like I kind of just don't want to know. Like I think this one is just the mysteries. We don't really need to know, do we? We don't need to know. And it'll be disappointing. It's like the Wizard of Oz effect. I I d I just made that up. No, that's not true. But like , Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain. You don't know the little dudes behind the curtain, right? Like there's some things you just don't want to know. Like, oh, did you know what's inside uh a slim gym? No, shut up. Oh, you really don't want to know that. I don't want to know. No . You don't want there are countries where you have to label that stuff. And uh I saw one that's just it said uh pigs anal glands. That's that was the whole that was the whole thing. And you're right. You know, maybe it's delicious. Maybe it's nutritious. Maybe it's even safe to eat, but you don't really want to middle country east coasters would know. Actually you grew up in mass dude, scrapple is delicious. Scrapple. Scrapple scrapple, baby. Bomb. I do I never somebody's like do you know what's inside scrapple shut up just don't want to know shut up never did scrapple is delicious all right well uh cover your ears. Actually, I don't see this is the thing . He's come to a conclusion. I I don't know if it's true . He and it's very thin. Well, it's it's it's a lot of v uh circumstantial evidence if it was in court. It would be circumstantial. It's you know, the a lot of the linguistic patterns match. He has some odd both both uh Satoshi and and uh this guy Adam Back Adam Back.. He's a British cryptocurrency. I have to say, of all the people who've been proposed to so Satoshi, he is the most qualified. Yeah. He was a cypherpunk. He's a cryptographer. He's been very active in Bitcoin. I mean, he could be uh uh and among all the other suspects the most likely to actually be. He kind of vanished from the message boards right when Satoshi knock uh like British spellings for certain words, using American spellings for other words. I have to point out though that Kerry commissioned one of those statisti cal semantic analysis , uh and it failed. And then his conclusion is, well, back was probably covering so thatw kne about these analyses, these statistical analyses, and intentionally obfuscated his prose so that that couldn't happen. Seem very likely, right? Like it it's that's a very you know, to him assuming somehow that you know, people would be working this hard to figure out who it was, you know, so many years later, that's sort of that that assumption. That's true. That it would have been kind of retroactively that he would have had to know that Bitcoin was going to be the same. Here's what's funny about the whole situation too. Um sorry, allow me to be Japanese major for a second. Nakamoto is in the middle of the begin ning or the middle of the root . So I know I know uh you know kotabag no knaka too means like I am I'm in the middle of trying to find the answer. Right? So Nakamoto itself. It has meaning. Yeah, so Yamamoto is like the the base of the mountain, the center of the mountain, the origin of the mountain, right? Yeah. Yamamoto would be the center of the origin . Right. So it's kind of interesting. Like if you are the inventor, if you are the beginning, a name that you would pick that's on the tongue but side cheek would be Nakamoto. That's the perfect name. Because I'm not gonna say I'm the founder. I'm not gonna say I am the Gensui or the the the center, but I will be the the center of the the root or the center of the origin. I wonder if Adam Bach studied Japanese. Oh yeah. So there's a very tight correlation between the UK uh you know uh Ingirisu as they call it and Japan anyway, right? Like the reason why Japan drives on that side of the road and so many of their cultural things are based on the UK. When they started to get um westernized after Meiji Restoration, a lot of it formalized in in sort of British oriented things. So it very much so he could have had that sort of connection, you know. So this is the article they have, they start with five hundred and sixty -two sus pects, and then he provides his his various pieces, and the number of suspects dwindles, dwindles down, and then the suspects start to disappear, and pretty soon he's I mean the graphics tell you it's at him back. This sounds like Jason's uh not news organization. We just gonna keep double clicking until we get down to the middle. It's well done. I think it's well done. Uh I don't know if it's convincing. He does in fact con confront back and you know he says the whole thing began when he saw the HBO documentary and he thought Adam Back looked a little bit squeamish when he was asked if he was uh Satoshi I also uh think that this article is a little vague when they said that he did the reporting with the help of computer assisted reporting provided by his colleague Dylan Friedman. Computer assisted? What what Friedman's the AI, or at least his byline says, is the AI projects editor for the Times. Yeah. He has rich his experience both as a reporter and a machine learning engineer. You think AI did the research for this? I do. But I I it's it's it's interesting that they're being they're being cagey about the specifics there. Correct. They also didn't touch on the fact that Satoshi in and of itself, Yuki is one, Satoshi is the Japanese have a whole bunch of different kanjis for like clever or intelligent or whatever. It's why so many boys are named Satoshi or Yuki. It means clever to yeah, it mean so so if you're gonna be the intelligent or the clever origin of the beginning I mean it's very on the nose bro like the the Japanese name itself set it tells you it's almost invented. So I think we can completely rule out it's an actual Japanese person. Yeah. And the fact that it means like you're the intelligent creator of this thing, like it kind of makes sense. And it's a it's a little hilarious to me. Well you can't rule out that it's a Japanese person. You can rule out that it's a per Japanese person named Satoshi Nakamoto. Oh yeah that's true. This is also true because the Japanese person would have been smarter of using that as a name that would throw everybody else off because they would actually know the literal Benito correct. But yes. Or as we say, talaga for Benito. He backed his fortune is dwindling because Bitcoin's down to $88,000 . So his fortune is dwindling. Actually, this story from CoinDesk: Bitcoin miners now lose $19,000 on average on every Bitcoin produced because electricity 's gotten so expensive. So another victim of the war in Iran, Bitcoin miners. Now those people another win for Samsung. Another win for Samsung. Back does deny it you know and he said that he doesn't know who satoshi is and now this is interesting that he believes that the anonymity anonymity is good for for Bitcoin and so this is one of the things that I always I I do feel like the anonymity is by design and that the folks who I it sort of seemed maybe the the argument for against this is that could they have really held it that long, but it sort of seems to me like it was probably a small team and not one person. And you know, like I don't know, three or four really smart people working together. Um, and remember, the whole reason they did this was this this happened right after the financial crisis, which were, you know, and they revealed they were like, look, too much. So the interesting thing is the parallels to the curtain AI crisis is they're like, there's too much control in too few organizations. So how could we build something that actually um distributes you know control and democratizes the the finance um you know industry. And this was their solution that they came up with. So it it is interesting that and blockchain itself and then Bitcoin on top of it. Um, so it is interesting and it is a ingenious, right? The blockchain system itself, despite you know, all of the the challenges there is with the other currencies, uh cryptocurrencies beyond um Bitcoin and Ethereum, you know, the blockchain itself is a remarkably um you know distributed and and uh you know egalitarian sort of system, despite all of the sort of negative things it's been used for since. But the I think the principle still applies, you know, now too and continues to be really interesting. And I'm surprised that there haven't been more connections with sort of where we're at in in the AI industry and maybe those those things are still to come. Yeah, I mean I mean one of the consensus points I get whenever I talk to security people, whether it's at the Zero Trust World or at RSEC, is we wouldn't be in the situation we're in if it weren't for Bitcoin. Which situation remember prior to Bitcoin, if you got ransomed and ransomware, they would say now go down to the 7 Eleven and buy some money cards some and that was not as you know a scalable business uh as soon as bitcoin became uh predominant, it ransomware took off. So yes, there have been some positives. I'm not against Bitcoin. Uh I wouldn't I I don't invest in Bitcoin. I'm not sure I'd recommend anybody to do that. But you still have those like three Bitcoins or something, right? Seven point eight five bitcoin. Oh man, but you don't have the uh password for them. I can't remember the password. On the other hand, if I had remembered the password, I would have long ago gotten rid of them when they were worth a hundred bucks. Right. I'm rich. I got seven hundred dollars. So it's been a blessing . And I figure quantum computing is gonna come along. And when it does, uh AI, or maybe your AI can open that. Yeah. Have Obi Wan work on it. Hey Obi Wan, can you help me unlock my Bitcoin wallet? I've forgotten the password. Let's see. Maybe you can get to work Buddy, you think you're so smart ? What's this saying? Wallet typically requires specific steps based on the type. Here are a couple of questions to help me assist you better. Oh good, it's gonna start work right now. We can call back in a couple weeks and video's gonna be rich smoking jacket with the long you know cigarette on the stick, one of those nice hats from the picture that Darren sent us. Welcome to this week and I'm Rich's I say I've suddenly become wealthy Thirsty follow the third loving get me the martinis . Uh let us pause uh for our final uh commercial and our final stories as we continue this week in tech with Jason Heiner . Great to have you, Jason from the deepview.com. Doc Rock. Things going well at ECAM? Oh, absolutely. We just released probably our dopest upgrade ever and I'm super excited about it. And so I've been having a lot of fun just like sort of teaching everybody what we're doing and uh yeah, it's great. And the trip that we're doing to the UK is a whole team trip . So it's kind of fun to go on an adventure with the entire squad. Like all 10 of us are just showing Oh fun. Okay. Bangers and mash for everybody. Is that all 10 people doing that amazing software? It's kind of crazy, right? Everyone thinks we're a way bigger team. There's literally only 10 of us. And they're only two developers, the twins. Nobody else touches the code. Really? Just the twins. But twin twin developers is a different level because like they kind of know what each other's thinking half the time. So like I think it's a your best development partner would probably be a twin. I don't know what other apps are developed by twins, but I know that these guys are pretty much were uh the Thomas with the Noel brothers twins? I don't know. They're brothers that did Photoshop. I don't think they were twins, but they were very close. Yeah. I think that's really helpful when you're working with, you know, someone who you basically spent every wake and moment with because it's so much easier and a lot of times when you get stuck on things or I think it's funny when like Ken will add something to the app and don't tell Glenn and then somebody in the community will say, hey it'd be really cool if you added this. And Glenn goes, yeah, that's a phenomenal idea. We should start on that. Ken's like, yeah, I already did it or vice versa. It happens all the time. It's super funny. I I think there's a lot to be said for a small, tight, uh talented team of developers as opposed to these, you know, hundreds and hundreds of developers working on the same project. I just think you know, if if it's the right project anyway. You never notice how big a large company can be so broken until you realize the way that Meta in so many ways , be biting one hand and sticking the other hand back in the jar. It's so weird. I'm like, Instagram will do something, but then Facebook would be like, yeah, you can't do this on video. I'm like, you literally do the same thing on Instagram. Isn't it the same company? Can somebody walk across the hall with the memo sheet? And it's just really weird. Uh I want to uh by the way announce our uh new show now that uh apparently uh my open claw has debugged uh and opened my Bitcoin wallet this week in Billionaires . Tech wealth influence the stories behind the billions. We have to work on the acronym though, because TWIB is not the best. Not the best. Oh my God. Thank you, Darren. Darren's quick on the draw. And Mike Elgin also here. I'll I'll ask you, Mike, about machine society and gastronom at in just a little bit. I want everybody to get the plugs in because I'm a big believer. But first , I must mention our uh sponsor for this segment of this week in tech, meter. Meter is a really cool company. Saw them uh at uh RSAC. They make amazing hardware, but it was founded by network engineers who had an insight. It came out of pain. If you're a network engineer , you know what I'm talking about. And believe me, they know your pain. The entire company lives, resides, needs the network. It is, it is the basis of every company. And yet it's under funded. You've got all sorts of challenges, legacy providers, uh with inflexible pricing, those IT resource constraints, complex deployments, fragmented tools. You're mission critical to the business, but you're working with infrastructure that just wasn't built for today's demands. They decided to do something about it. They founded meter , and now businesses are switching to meter because it makes a big difference. Because Meter does the whole stack. They realize, just like Apple realized, if you want to make something truly great, you've got to do the whole thing. They offer full stack networking infrastructure for wired, wireless , and cellular. They build for performance, they build for scalability, and they can do it because Meter designs the hardware, writes the firmware, they build the software, they manage the deployments. The'yll even do the after sales support. They're there for you. They do it all because they know you're paying and they have a solution. Meter offers everything. I mean, starting with ISP procurement, they'll help you with security, routing, switching, wireless, I mean everything you need, firewall, cellular, yes, power. That's, I mean, vital, right? DNS, uh, DNS security , VPN, SD-WAN, multi-site workflows, all in a single solution, meteor single integrated networking stack scales. They are in major hospitals, which is a absolutely hostile environment for wireless, right? They're in branch offices. You know what they told me was one of the big challenges? Warehouses. A company buys another company. They acquire all the company's warehouses, these hundred thousand square foot, football field size warehouses with wireless that just doesn't work and doesn't integrate with the home office, they can solve that. They work with large campuses. They work, they even work with data centers. They they do Reddit's data center. Asked the assistant director of technology for Webb School of Knoxville. He said, quote, we had more than 20 games on campus between our two facilities. Each game was streamed via wired and wireless connections , and the event went off without a hitch. We could never have done this before. Meter redesigned our network. With meter, you get a single partner for all your connectivity needs from first sight survey to ongoing support without the complexity of managing multiple providers or tools, Meter's integrated networking stack is designed to take the burden off your IT team and give you deep control and visibility, reimagining what it means for businesses to get and stay online . Bottom line, meters built for the bandwidth demands of today and tomorrow. I'm a believer. You should check it out. We thank met er so much for sponsoring Twit. Go to meter.com slash twit, book a demo now. That's m-e-t-e-r dot com slash twit to book a demo. Thank you, meter . Only a couple of stories left. Uh you were talking about um Khal she and uh polymarket. One of the big controversies this from The Guardian is uh this it's a Guardian investigation by Aisha Down . Uh the inside story of the polymarket gamblers betting millions on war . Uh and we've seen it. It's basically insider trading, right? It started with Ukraine, but now with the Iran war, uh there is a huge and I think kind of repre hensible uh amount of insider betting going on . Polymarket, it before Trump was elected, had about $400 million a year traded on its platform. Today it could do 400 million in a single day . And even though they're called it a production uh market, it's it's it's betting, right? It's gambling. Yeah. Uh some states uh Nevada obviously aren't thrilled about it and have gone after them. Um I think Arizona . Um but But it's it's going on . And there's a lot of money changing hands . Well, it's just I think it's part of a larger trend where we've decided that it's okay for get-rich quick schemes to benefit nobody. And this is one of the problems I've always had with Bitcoin, which is that where people really it's supposed to be a currency, but for the most part, people use it as a speculative way to make a lot of money. And unlike if you invest in the stock market or something, if I invest in you know, some company, a company's likely to be feeding somebody or clot, you know, building something or providing a service to somebody or doing something. That's traditional investments. At some point, people are getting some good or service. At the end of it, and you're contributing to that. Whereas with things like Bitcoin and this sort of all this, all this betting that's going on and literally everything, it's like nobody benefits from this. It's just some people lose a bunch of money and a few people win all that money for themselves and there's no nobody's being clothed, housed or fed uh through this through this uh thing. So it's like a it's like a it's it's just one of the malign incentives that we have in the world today that we didn't really used to have. And I think it's a big problem and I think it's gonna get bigger and bigger. And it's not just it's not just the insider trading aspect of it. Um And then you have Fox and other news networks doing deals with these companies because they're it's a it's the news signal right yeah the you know it provides valuable sign al on what the sentiments are out there right and like Bitcoin as Mike I said, Bitcoin rises and fall purely on sentiment. It's not tied to any other, you know, aspect of anything, you know, economic. And, you know, so, so these markets are really interesting in that, but like for people who, you know have or or some some affinity and addictive personalities and that, oh my gosh, right? Like gambling has always been very uh very much strongly regul ated because it's so dangerous and people can sort of lose their whole livelihoods, you know, in in a matter of hours, right? Or or less sometimes. And so, you know, that's why, but this now opens it up and sort of is is just gives it rocket fuel, which is a which is a big challenge. Fox News, CNN, and CNBC all have deals with Calci, which is one of the two big prediction markets, uh for their forecasts. They're gonna I mean just as the NFL puts DraftKings betting odds on every screen now, uh the news channels are gonna put the betting odds, because that's really what it is. Oh man. On their uh uh on their news feeds. It's it's absolutely wild. Like when you think about it, it is actually you know the what is that thing? The call is coming from the inside. This is right up there with the call that's coming from inside the house kind of situation. It it's yeah, it's fun it's phenomenally crazy. And I agree with it. It's amazing what you can you know, you can place a bet on whether Jesus Christ will return before twenty twenty seven. Yeah. Yeah. Well how do you how do you let Well we'll know like that's the kind of thing that makes me want to do it though. That makes me 'cause I think 'cause like Mike said, if Jesus is your landscaper, he might not come back. By the way, the odds, uh, it's only four percent odds that he will that he will return. It's such a weird thing. You know, preying on the concept, this is my whole problem with just gowning in general, and I'm not gonna act like I haven't done any pools. I'm not crazy, I've done pools, but the preying on the concept of jumping over everybody else with a windfall in many, many areas of industry has always been somewhat uh what's the word we look at the predatory, right? Whether that's like rapid weight loss or long levity, long levity, longevity for your life, or preventing wrinkles, or all myriad sorts of things. People make money basically selling some sort of fake snake oiled panacea over the ability for people to jump over the line. Right. And it's kind of insane. So I was sitting, you know, again, going to the airport recently, and again, I have clear. So I'm cheating the system , but I remember when having TSA pre check was the unlock. And then all the credit card companies says, Jason, if you sign up for TSA pre check, we'll go ahead and pay for that hundred bucks or the 85 bucks, whether you did global entry or regular. And so now having pre-check is not even a win because the pre-check line is longer than the standard line on many airports, and again, only savinging grace is hav clear because you just walk in. And to Leo's point while back, what makes clear the cheat code? Because for whatever reason I can afford to spend 200 bucks a year on clearing people. Other ain't gonna do that. The rich guy as a person who's flying at least twice a month, it's worth every cent to me. But there's certain there's certain things that happen on the on the prediction markets that make me want to do it. Because for example, you can bet in favor or against Elon Musk's predictions and that's just easy money. I mean he's always well if you know Elon it is. Yeah, this is the problem. If you're if you're Elon a friend of Elon , you can make some money on this. Who thinks it's you know, he recently predicted that uh robot surgeons will be better than human doctors within three years. Um I would short Elon on almost everything he said. Everything. Everything possible. Nobody ever got rich betting on Elon. Well, that's not true. But that's not true. Elon, please keep your mouth away from my Celtics doing a back-to-back NBA championships. Thank you. Oh, we're rooting for you. Last story. I don't know if you've ever run into this. I've always wondered about it. I'll get to uh uh buy tickets to a concert and it says you must have our app on your phone and your ticket will appear on the app . And uh but what if I don't have a smartphone. In the past, there's always been kind of an out. Well, you can go to the we'll call and we'll print a ticket for you. Well, I just saw this ex post . This 81-year-old man, lifelong Dodgers fan, seasoned pass holder for 50 years , just told by the Dodgers, we don't print tickets . And you you gotta you gotta get a cell phone. You gotta Oh wow. He he's not gonna be able to go to the game. They should just give him a phone and all it does is give him tickets. That's that's what they should do. He says he can't use the phone. He doesn't he doesn't use the phone . All it does is tickets. He can just give it to the dude and he'll do it. I agree with I s the first of the story, I said the same thing that Benny said. I would go get him a iPhone S E and then take all the other apps off except the phone app I mean the ticket app and just give it to him and then use it as a as like a PR. We were talking about my mom with Alzheimer's. I did that the last time I visited a couple of months ago. I'm sad to say I should be there right now. But uh I took her iPad and I took everything all the apps off, because she really can't use them, and I put big icons on the front with the pictures of all the family. And if she taps it, it will FaceTime call to that person, hoping that that would make it so that she could just and it worked for a while, but now she's gone far enough that she doesn't even she can't even really do that. And honestly, the reason why they're doing this is not to be jerks. They're trying to get over fake tickets or you know, people . Other people tickets that when they get to the gate doesn't work. You know, you know what I mean? And tickets have always been super easy to pick the security anyway. So it's it it's kind of this weird catch twenty two. And again, people trying to cheat the system, ruin it even for this OG who kind of just wants to watch Dodgers do his thing. You know they should know him at the stadium anyway and just let him in. That's another thing. Come on in. Thank you. This this uncle been sitting here for thousands of games. We know who he is. They put his picture on the thing. If this guy comes up and say he got a ticket, he got a ticket, let him in. I I bring it up just to remind us all, because we're all geeks. And we got we all have phones. We all have the we go, okay, I'll put the app on there. That's fine. The QR code is fine. I can do that. I can use my watch to get But there are a lot of people who aren't. Let's not forget them. Let's not leave them behind in this AI technology. Especially the light speed. Things are moving at right now, for sure. There are there are 100% uh the many things that are leaving people behind. They're in smaller, subtler ways, but they're some of the just get you know, using the internet these days, having accounts or whatever can be so complex. Yeah. Um two factors. And you can't apply for work if you don't have an email address. I mean, there's just some basic fundamental things people should be able to do. Yeah. That they can't. You know what's funny, Mike? This is funny. I'm totally a nerd and I know how to do all of this stuff, but I recently purchased a Neo as a way to just beat up on it to try to get our users to not buy Neos to try to do live streaming because it just live streaming is a little bit stronger. And I was setting it up in my house, I was mind my business. I'm watching the game. I don't feel like coming back down to the office to get another computer. And even though I know the name and the password for the Apple ID that we use for the company demo machines, it's like you need to authorize this on another machine. Which means I gotta come down, open the Pelican case, set up my traveling Mac minis, right? There's no other notebook, right? What if you don't have another Apple device? Thank you. Like and and I 'm crazy. But on the opposite end of that. But of course you must have many Apple devices. Look, the on the opposite end of that, what really makes me sad is when a financial institution tells you that their two-factor authentication method is sending an SM S message. No, no, no, no, no. Allow me to put allow me to put it in something a little bit more Yubi-Key than that because this is where my money at. And they're like, oh no, we use uh SMS message, which is easily spoofed. So it's so weird. And Mike is a hundred percent right. Two factor is glorious as it should be, it's not because they we can't get a single, you know, good way or multiple good ways to do it. And same thing if you walk to a catch register and they have the Vodafone machine or a Vera phone machine to tap your thing. Why is it tap spot in seven different places, even in the same store? Right? If you go to uh whatever your grocery store is let's call it safe way on aisle number one the tap spot is on the bottom but aisle number seven the tap spot somewhere else like where the frick is the NFC thing why can't it be in one place? I'm like Jesus Christ. Oh, what a world, what a world. Well, I'm happy to say when uh when we uh when we convene every Sunday we get smart people on and try to explain it all. And that's what this should be. We can't fix nothing. It's all about we can't fix it. We can only explain it. Mike Elgin, Gastronomad. What what's your next gastronomad adventure? Tuscany, actually. That's where you are. So you're getting ready. Two weeks. Yeah, yeah. And uh it's gonna be spectacular. We do three in Italy now nowadays. We do Venice, Persyco Hills, uh Sicily, and now Tuscan. Is that the most popular uh destination? Uh which one? Sicily? Well, just Italy. Italy I think so because we do three. I mean we only do one in France. That's in Provence or I loved Oaxaca. We went on Oaxaca Mexico a couple years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Oaxaca is fine. get together. I I don't know. I would love to do any of these would be so much fun. Gastronomad .net. I wouldn't mind Barcelona . 10th anniversary. So to for our 10th anniversary, we've added Chile and the Cotswolds. Oh the Cotswolds. For fun. That's right. That's right. In in the UK. That's right. And they're not known for they're known for their cheese, uh, but not known for their gastronomy, really. Well, their gastronomy is like so many UK places has gotten just brilliant in the last few years. Oh good. Yeah. So it's because of all the Indian food. Yeah. Well, that's London. That's the London London's probably the best place in the world for Indian food. Um no offense to India. But uh no, but it you know, we've talked about this on the show before, and I I suspect that there are a lot of people like, so what is this exactly? So basically we just uh get six, eight, ten, twelve people together in a usually an old farmhouse or some cool location. And we just do fun, surprising stuff all day. It's food related. Yeah. And it's not tourism. That's the thing. I love it. It's not tourism. It's a small group experience. So it's not you know, you're not cattle. It's with people who know and love the region. Sometimes, yeah. But um but you are focused on people. So it's not like we go to this winery, we go and spend time with a specific winemaker. It's not just this restaurant. We we hang out with the chef a bit. Uh it's it's very personal, very it really drops you into the culture. And it's just fun every single minute. So anyway, if anybody loves food and travel, uh this is the thing to do or the way to do it, especially for places that a lot of people don't want to go, uh because the language, you know, Morocco, we do Morocco, um, places like that, it's a great safe , just super fun eating all day. And you make great friends. Everything. I'm right now. I just see a message from Charlie and Brock, two two guys I met on the Oaxaca adventure. We've been buddies ever since. And we talk all the time. So it's really people doing it. It's a really neat uh absolutely experience. Yeah. Uh we should also mention machinesociety.ai, which is your newsletter. You do a podcast as well. You're that's right. That's right. But you could if you if you subscribe to machine society dot AI, you'll get all the stuff that I do. So if you inter casts and all that stuff, I really recommend machinesociety.ai because that's that's sort of like the hub of of of all my activities. And it's it's not just AI, it's it's about every cyberpunk trope come real. It's become like part of our everyday life. Such a world Yeah, absolutely. So I'm trying to provide it's a it's a very humanistic uh champion for humanity view of all this advanced technology. And I'm not against the technology. I think the technology is great, but we need perspective more than the internet. You know, I'm sorry we didn't talk about this story you just did about uh corporate sabotage doing something called black traffic, which is AI-driven online disinformation. That's right. It's the techniques of state sponsored disinformation that uh that's come to the business world and it's where companies compete with these sort of uh AI-driven prop aganda against their rivals. How do you fight to create mistrust? Yeah, exactly. I mean that's it works in in the global uh political sphere, and it it's unfortunately starting to work in the business world too. Of course it is. Of course it is. Uh all right, one more plug for you, Mike, because your son does this really or started this really great company called Chatterbox. Hello, chatterbox.com. How's that going? It's going great. In fact, you were you were uh uh showing off the rabbit and how it's sort of like using open claw. Chatterbox is not using open claw, but it's using LLM based AI now. And to teach kids AI living. And so you b they build the kit themselves, they program the kit. It's all child friendly and highly secure. It's the only um it's the only uh uh compliant uh smart speaker allowed in schools because it's so private and secure. And so I would think every school district would want to do this because this is what you need to learn today. That's right. That's right. You know, there's reading, writing, arithmetic, and AI. That's right. And it can be used as a tool for learning reading, writing, and arithmetic. Uh you it once you've built it and programmed it, it can help kids study, but it won't hand them the answers, it won't write for them. It will teach them to be smarter instead of instead of dumbing them down with AI, which is exactly how we want kids to use AI, right? And not just have it do their work for them. Hello, chatterbox. I like to give it a plug, because it's such a great idea. Thank you. Really appreciate that . Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Doc Rock . Thank you, uh Jason. Three of my favorite people. It's fun to see you on a Sunday. I hope you have a wonderful week. Nice to see all of you too. We do twit every Sunday afternoon, two to five PM Pacific, five to eight Eastern, twenty-one hundred UTC. You can watch it if you're a club member in our club twit discord. I hope you're a club member. If you're not, please join. We'd love to have you. Twit.tv slash club twit, the only way to get ad-free versions of all our shows. Uh and if you are a member, you can watch and chat with us in the club twit Discord, but everybody can watch when we're doing it live on YouTube, Twitch, X.com, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick. After the fact, we put it on the website, twit.tv. There's audio and video there for all our shows. We also uh have a YouTube channel dedicated to the video. Great way to share clips. Probably the easiest thing to do is subscribe in your favorite podcast client. That way you'll get it automatically as soon as Benito's done polishing it up. Or I guess Kevin King works on the final edit. Thanks to Benito Gonzalez and Kevin King, our producers and editors. Appreciate it. Benito puts the show together, does the technical directing. Thanks to all of you for watching. Thanks to Mike and Doc and Jason. We'll see you next time. Another twit is in the can. It is amazing .