Bitcoin Wallets and Lost Passwords

It's time for Twit this weekend teech and it's one of those special shows, where good two of my favorite people on and just let them vibe and it's got to be a great one. Amy Webb is here Futurists from the Future Today Strategy Group Harper Reid AI guru and technologist from two three eight nine. Ai We have lots to talk about Trump and the CEOs going to China. A lot of AI news. Musk versus Altman Google investing in SpaceX and a whole lot more. I'll tell you what Don't even worry about what we're going to talk about. J make sure you watch this show because Twit is great. and next Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is tr it This is Twit. this week at tech. Episode one thousand eighty four Recorded Sunday M seventeenth, twenty twenty six. Don't overcook the asparagus It's time for Twit this week in tech the show we cover the weeks News and you are in luck If you've never listened this show or if you've listened for twenty one years, that's how long you've been doing it Either way, you're going to be thrilled that we have Amy Webb here from The Future Today Strategy Group That is me. FTSG. She's a futurist It's So so good to see you Amy. One of the smartest people in the world And always welcome. and her buddy, it turns out the last time they were on, I didn't even know they knew each other. turnurns out. Harper Reid and Amy go way back. Harper Reed, technologies entrepreneur andcker two three eight nine. Ai Hello Harper, Healloween. Hello When we have the two of you, we don't need anyone else. In fact, I'm just gonna to relax, sit back And let you guys just jam. Harper, should we get this out of the way now Oh, should I never have the stuff? I just need the thing There it is. This is other. Can you screenshot this and send it to what One second. There we go. The leadership US Japan program, tellell us about that, Amy. What is that? So I think Harper and I told you about this last time around. did, but they're not everybody was here last time so. It's a Terrific organization that brings together American leaders and Japanese leaders Um who actually live in other places around the world, besides just Japan and the United States. And the point is to establish a network and relationships for the purpose of bringing the two countries more firmly together over time Um And so and there are some I've, I guess This is going almost my tenth year You sort of do a week in Japan as a cohort and then you do a week in the United States or depending on what year it is, there's an alternate you sort of alternate between the two. And u Yeah, and then you become a lifetime fellow, which is what Herper and I both are. It' it's truly awesome. that People are incredible incredible people doing really meaningful things Um yeah. and we we see each other in person throughout the year ands it's a great, great organization. You have to be under forty. to apply and if anybody they raise the age a little bit. Okay. You used to be forty. You don't have to speak Japanese. You do have to demonstrate leadership and have some kind of interest in Japan if you're not Japanese, but I can't say enough about it. It's really an incredible program. Does it involve going to small nightclubs to see hardcore punk bands at all? Yes. that's exactly what we do. That's what H just did. That's what I do. I don't know if there's a general we, but I have did do I did bring some of our at that point delegates to see a punk band in Seattle during our our session there. But it's been really great. And it's interesting because as, you know Ostensibly, this is a soft diplomacy program U And the thing about soft diplomacy is it shifts the target shift. throughout the lifeifesty I guess, life of these kind of programs. And so it's been really interesting just in the U, I guess seeven years I've been involved, how kind of the focus has shifted and's it's It's really fun to participate and meet people that you would never meet before Um It's good. Yeah, it's not just I was going to say, we've got some like Marvel executives. we've got recognizable names that I'm not going to name out loud, but people you definitely have heard of recently in the U web You've got me, you've got Harper? Yeah. Yeah You know, I imagine there's been a kind of a wrenching the of the late lately of the diplomatic focus What was, u Everything going on in the world In fact, that's our first You mean? I don't know what's going on. I don't know. it seems like something's happening. The first topic is about China because Trump in ' sixteen, something like that, CEO's We're in China this past week, meeting with President Xi President for Life She tal It was unprecedented too. I don't know that there's been another time in history when we've had such a a group of CEOs like that traveling with a group of government officials. Pre pretty amazing? Yeah. And in fact, one of them hitchhiked Jensen Wong of NvidDia wasn't invited. and complained about it. And the president said, We'll meet you in Alaska. We got to stop for refueling Jensen jumped on a PJ, flew up to Alaska, met Air Force One and joined the Exodus. CEO's from Nvidia E tit him Tim Apple was there Exxon Boeing,Qualcom Blackstone City Group Visa All there. Elon's son was there. let's not forget about that X Yeah that wason and Elon was there too, right? He always brings his son with him. Yeah, there's hilariously awful video of him He's walking at a normal adult pace and his son is literally racing to keep up with him while Elon's got a death grip on his hand. Oh which is ye Jensen, was left off the list because he's Taiwanese and American. Invidious chips are made by TSMC And the focus of this visit was actually not AI. The focus was From China's point of view You know, let's all agree that you're going to let us do what we want with Taiwan and you're going to stay out of the way So so that is why he was not not on the list. U, So why was so then The question is why they changed their mind suddenly and was it an affront to the Chinese that he was there Very much so Oh interestnteresting. u You know, the way that these diplomatic visits get set up, they're coordinated and choreographed months in advance Um, and who's on the list and where people are going to sit. I mean, that's the other thing like is Literally it's a complicated chess game, just figuring out where people are going to sit because that message is so much. So any kind of edition of anybody last minute is really tricky but especially somebody who From China's perspective as a political lightning rod was Well, and one of the deals that the Trump administration made was to clear Uh Nvidia chip sales to China, not the best The H two hundred, not the Yeah, but that is already. Yeah, that's fine. But well, what's funny is the Chin nobody in China would order one the Chinese have decided, no, we're going to do our own and screw you Yeah. look, China is We have ignored the whole world. I used to live there This is why I brought it up because you're an expert on this. Yeah. Well, I don't know if I'm an expert on it, but U China For years has been producing exceptional quality everything. They literally have seventy percent of the global market share for EV's and also have like literally one hundred different EV companies. And it' good that America has had to ban them in the United States. that would undermine our own auto industry. Yeah. I've had a chance to drive in some of them They're awesome. They are great cars and they they're inexpensive, better mileage And what's interesting is They are in the process of converting like All of those car companies are going to also start producing robots and drones. Right. In fact, some say they're already better at bipedal robots than we are Yeah sureure Yeah. so anyhow, tryry to use AI models are only a couple months behind ours at this stage. Is think that close, really I think it depends on who you talk to, but again, I'm not an expert. expert, I've used Quin U whichich is what Quen Wa Wwaysays or Xiaomese, I can't remember No, GLM is Chiaomese There's a lot of quite good. They're not quite there. Harper, what do you think? you're also comparing them to You're comparing an open model the weights are available with a closed Yeah, I can run logal that has untold tweaks to get it to be more effective on the backke end that we don't know about versus Quin or JLM or Kimmy or any of these that for me is very good to actively free to run. You know, and I think this is also one of the re you have enough GPU and RAM, I have to run a highly quantized version of GLM locally with one hundred and twenty eightig gings of RM, but it still can run it And it's open Yeah in many cases it's uncensored, like they've removed the Chinese censorship from it Well, I think there's a funny thing that happens, which is We like to think that you know, China is behind or they say, oh, the models are behind. But we don't have any open models that are better We sometimes pop up, like a Gemma pops up or like a Facebook llama three will pop up. whatever one hundred twenty GBT OSS will pop up. and that happens, but then they're quickly beaten by the Chinese open model. And so I think you have to actually compare oranges to oranges in this. I have to point out both Anthropic and open AI say that's because they're distilling our models Yeah, but they distilled their own models off themselves and also the internet. Like every I think that's a funny I think that's a funny critique. Hey they stole from us. We We just you can't have it both ways. You know what I'm saying? Like you either it either is stealing or it's not stealing. And if it's stealing, then let's talk about it. But you can't be like they stole from us, but we didn't steal from you which I feel like is a kind of the narrative. I just think we need to really be If the U.S really wants to have a Let me say it differently. I find it very interesting that China has followed the rule or the kind of pattern that the US followed in the past of releasing what amounts to a free technology to the world And the US is with open models, et cetera. the US has been reliant on closed models And so if you talk to entrepreneurs outside the US, a lot of them are relying on these open Chinese models They're not relying on closed U.S models. And if we're and it seems like a big blind spot of the U. S entrepreneurs to assume that you know, Southeast Asia, you know, APAC, et cera. even Europe, Middle East is going to suddenly, you know use open AI anthropic, Facebook, Google models, when they get something that is, let's say it's six months behind or even a year behind for effectively free that they have control of. Um, you know, which which is like the linuxization, so to speak of these models of just spreading it out. For free, I find that really interesting That's correct. And if you couple that with the amount of infrastructure investment that's happening Um you know are Our hyperscalers are going to invest, what is it like eight hundred billion dollars on paper right now in building data centers. They they're burning cash because we don't have a national strategy. It's all being left to the to the you know, market to figure out. That's not what China is doing. China's got plan China has a history of Announcing plans and not making good on them, but that's actually not been the case over the past couple of cycles So they're building out, everybody's going to have wiFi broadband. So they're making it so that everybody can participate. and the models that people have access to are not cost prohibitive, prohibitive. the way they can be in the U.S So that just creates this interesting circumstance where you got significantly more distributed access. And people can around and find out. you know, like you just time to play. And the other really interesting thing is The conversation about AI in the US is all about like the robots coming to take my job and then murder me in my sleep. You know it's all apocalyptic or it's this like utopian wonderfulness that will happen China's having a much more pragmatic conversation. So if you talk to just everyday people there and I do They're more worried about whether or not they're going to be competitive in the marketplace. So they're not like all the jobs are going away. They're more like Man, I really need to experiment, get better with this because I want to make sure I get the best possible job. But not like there are no jobs. Does that make sense So it's just a very, very Pragmatic different approach that For the many things China does wrong that I disagree with, I think this is one area that we could study and learn a lot from Did you see Jensen Wong's interview with Dwarquh on made You're kind of an interesting point which is self serving. whichich was that we shouldn't block Nvidiaious chips in China. doing so forcing them to create their own technology and not use TA, his proprietary technology, which is bad for the world and bad for America. His contention is if you would just let them buy our chips, it'd be more likely we'd be part of a larger ecosystem instead of China having its own ecosystem, which will ultimately implications I don't know about that argument because there's a lot of Everybody wants access to China's market. It's a big markoney. And China has been very smart about not giving access, you know, so like That's a self serving request. It seems pretty self serving, but just It was interesting He seems pretty good at building up the world that he wants to happen and then executing on it. and I'm very impressed with him and his way of doing it and doing that. and And also how people who work there seem to love it in a way that seems like I have friends that have worked at Amazon for a long time, they don't love it They're there for money or Facebook. And anyone I know what NVvidia is like, it's hard, but I really like it. And I don't understand how they created that environment because everything I read about it seems like it's horrible to work at peopleople seem to really like they're true believers, which I always admire when you have a leader that's able to instill that. And even if that means bending reality to their wants, like he he's done a good job Okay so I have something free to Google Leo. Yes. I'm good at that. spelling. Oh, I don't use Google, but I'll do this You mean search has a web for Yeah don't I don't use Google anywhere either. Kagy. I'll Kaggy it Yeah it doesn't really work. And I love that their logo is a G They were like, what if we used a G? No one is the search space G. Okay. It is M A L E O U S space AI And you want to hit the Amazon link. Mallius Yes. It's a robot for AI robot for kids. So this is an. N sounds scary. MA is an of also for the elderly. This is an example of one of these little this is a deep seek agent that will that you can talk to and has a very fast real time U AI agent on it, that's pretty good. Like clloud or is it the cloud. Okay. It's all I took it apart and reverse engineered it. It's all MQTT, posted to some endpoints in China. A lot of other people have done this as well. but what is it always to me in sending China everything I say Oh yeah, and you have to hook it to your Wi Fi. This is definitely for people who really want to do that. but it's how long before the SCC bans this? It cost forty USD W There's no account. There's no sign up There's nothing It is pretty effective, pretty effective. Like I just want a friend told me about this. This friend of mine in Shanghai was like, hey, there's all of these small little AI admin assistant things. They're all little hardware pieces. And and if you look at the recommended products from this, there's dozens of these. You can just see, they all start to look the same. There's little robots. There's all this is not currently available I think to kind of what Amy is saying, like they've made it so it is cost effective to build really interesting technology that isn't just some insane two hundred dollarars hundred a month subscription for the mediocre version, that was literally forty dollars. Like I paid forty dollars with it. It came, I hooked it to my wifeifi like a crazy person and then immediately started talking to it I think does it seem like this is just give inviting China into your network. Yeah But I think you're missing the point though, Leo. because the point isn' that China is in your network. like like you already have GoV lights and like all sorts of other stuff. like they don't have to have some forty dollar device. The point is that this is a free AI thing that's very effective and' competitive with with Okay. this one's unavailable, but what about the HeyozZoki AI desk robot one I can buy and havef tomorrow Yeah, get it. Let's try it. It's fun It's a little rabbit adjacent, is it not I have a rabbit. I did buy the rabbit because it lo. It could talk to my open cllaw, which I don't have But I had I had my AI agent. simulate open claw so that Rabby doesn't know any better. and I can talk to it through. So okay, show you don't know anything about this one, but this is also deepeak powered so I figure it's probably just If you look for the deeep Seak powered ones, they're for the most part free and easy and they're pretty good. I would not know you're not going to use it for real work. You know, but it but it's like it's a twenty dollars AI assistant that is pretty funny to use And this is what we're this is what we're dealing with because that's distributed all over the world whereereas open AI anthropic, they don't have hardware that you can p ter parent or your kid. No, In fact, all we have is crappy Amazon Echo plus thing which has a sassy voice and then tries to sell me stuff. or Siri, which is just Bed In twenty eight seventeen or so, we were working with Microsoft. This is I'm not divulging anything now because it's been a while Statute of limitations supp. almost OIP worked. couldould you imagine? Yeah, No kidding.. But they had multiple teams trying to figure out AI. and they were incredibly siloed I think if you look at some of the research that was coming out of Microsoft, they had some of the best at that point, they had some of the best research on things like machine reading comprehension and recognition and NLP and stuff like that At any rate What h it What happened was They got fixated on a device and wanted to get a sub forty dollarars Bluetooth Alexa competitor, Amazon you know echo competitor in the market. bought lost and sort of lost where, you know, lost the the the uh I don't know. lost their path, lost their footing Um You got all and It's hard to bring hardware to the market I So it's interesting to me in the United States that we keep having hardware failures over and over again, which is what's happened You don't see that in China. And that's been true in China and Japan, where Harper and I have both spent a ton of time Um, because things are more open and there is significantly more competition. one hundred different companies trying to bring EV's to the market That's that's Ppletely unfathomable. We cannot wrap our heads around that in the United States U But is that as ironic because they're communist And we're capitalist But that sounds like they've got free more more of a free market than we do. Is that? I didn't see the aircotes there, Leo free market. No I meant on the cap the communists. like there' needs to be airquotes around maybe that whole sense. Do you think Adam Smith would look at China and say that's what I was talking about China has adapted capitalism in a different way than we have. And one could argue again There's a lot going wrong there, but you could argue that There's a better approach. We are seeing other alternative and better approaches to capitalism and to the markets for the purpose of like innovation and competition outside the US. It's ridiculous that we are this AI is a very long horizon technology. It's also been in the works for a very long time. But in terms of like getting stuff into the commercial sector It's only been a couple of years and we only have a couple players It should be the opposite right now at this stage. We should have one hundred different legitimate companies in every single part of the ecosystem, and that is not what's happening. We have a couple of dominant players Turn us said let a thousand flowers bloom And George Warson said led a hundred points a light. There's a really good book that I think talks a lot about this by Dan Wang called Breakneck. Yeah.ally where got it right over there. It's great veryy effective, very great book. but it really puts this idea that We have migrated and he doesn't do he does a very good job of not saying one is better than the other, more just saying, this is kind of where we are and we may need to fix it. We may not, but like we need to choose one way or the other. But he just says the US is a lawyer state and China is an engineer state. And so you have what kind of comes from that? L you have a lot of laws and regulation in the US which You know, is like all we talk about. But if you look at our leaders, one hundred percent of our leaders are all lawyers. So of course, it's like my fam economist friend of mine always tells me, you know, never ask a hairstylist if you need a haircut Right? It's like you do what tools you have in front of you. And whereas China's leaders are all engineers. So it's going to be much easier for them to say, My tools in front of me are to light up a billion solar companies and have the competition fight to see which one of the best solar happens, which is where all the solar innovation is happening. Whereas we are saying, oh, well we need to regulate to get solar either to out there or to kill wind turbines or whatever thing is happening. But the point being that like we're using the tools that we have available And it might not be the right tool for this moment in time one hundred percent, the tools of regulation A This is a 's going to open up a can of worms so I don't want to do that other than to say that This is not a moment to regulate. We cannot and should not attempt to regulate AI U there are other ways forward But it requires making some tough decisions with regard to who can make money and how and how the returns get distributed and stuff like that. China' is just not They're just not operating the same space There are plenty of other problems, you know, And also China's not going to be the one innovating and creating brand new stuff They are going to fast follow, but that fast follow strategy is really smart when you combine that with this long term vision and resources put against bringing everybody online. You know, I would love to see the United States invests similarly to get everybody. Look, I mean, like all these tools are really great unless you have no service in your house or you know. Yeah. You just then then cool. you're learning about AI and you can't use any of it You know What was so what was the goal of the Trumps summit. sum week Um It depends on who you ask from my point of view. I There's a big war happening that the United States launched So there's That and China and Iran historically have relations whereas we don't. So I think that there was some amount of let's see if we can figure some of this out on China is very, very This is a little bit of u A littleittle bit of nineteen fourteen Uh where we had all of these hotspots around the world starting to heat up because there were these political Um Political problems all over the place It feels a little bit like that right now. and You could look at this as like she may China may see this as an opening to take Taiwan by force, which they've certainly talked about. They could see this as an opening to use Taiwan as leverage for something else You know, there's a lot of that happening. There's certainly a lot of concern among the U.S. tech. industry about losing Taiwan. I mean , because we don't get there's no chips anywhere else. They are made by TSMC. And it's presumed if if China did invade Taiwan that they would blow up the ChipP plans to prevent China from getting technology I mean, Y she says they would. I don't know if they would. Yeah, that sounds Imlausible. It's just the technology. it's the people who know how to use the technology. So it's not just those resources. You've got this incredibly trained, highly skilled group of people who are able to work in these places. You can't That's part of the reason why it's really hard to stand up a factory like that in the US right now because we just don't have highly, highly, highly skilled people yet. to do that work And if we do, they are they are burdenens' the wrong word, but they're burdened by regulation, laws, labor laws, etcetera, that are not from today They're from factories from a hundred years ago, and they were made for very, very good reasons. like these were made to protect workers and children, etcetera. And so we have this stuff that know, China never had to go through that as a country. They were able to define their labor laws which, you know, some are bad, some are good in the modern age And I think that just that's, you know, this is kind of a lot what the Den Wang book is about, which I highly recommend. I can't recommend enough if you're interested in justing that. Yeah. What I like about it is a lot of the books on China, you know, Apple and China or Chip wars are very good, but at the end, they basically are shouting, China will never beat the US. And it's just kind of like this hyperbolic kind of where it's like Dan Wong is just saying, lookook, these are two different systems. Here's the historical reasons why they happened, and here's some comparisons across that might be helpful. And I just thought that was a nice, less hyperbolic way of looking at these two systems and how they interface, et cetera I remember visiting China in two thousand nine Chinese studies major in college. Oh, I love I never knew that Yeah, no, I love the culture I learned Mandarin, which I've of course forgotten because unless you use it every single day Pl of spoken word U I I in two thousand nine visited China and I had kind of come to the opinion that while twentieth century was the American century, I think we all agree that the twenty first century might well be the Chinese century And and our guide who was a Bit expat said, oh, no, you don't understand the economic issues besetting China, and this is two thousand nine will keep it from becoming the Chinese century. Is that still true or is that not the case? There certainly were economic issues. There's birth rate issues There are problems in China. There was, of course, the human rights issue. I don't know if that has anything to do with the economics of it you think this could be, it sounds like you're just painting a picture of a Chinese centurry. Well, century is a long time. twenty decade. Let's have a decade, decade. Yeah I think it really depends on look, I'm like a pragmatist. I just so like If I were to look at where a lot of Western democracies are, and I would include Japan in this. I look at birthate issue too. Huge birth rate issue. They're also having lots of internal political issues. They just launched a brand new party called Mid. Midi, something Midi in Japanese means future U So it's a It's a guy and the focus is on like AI. so it's fine, but like Japanese I don't know, with apologies to everybody who might be listening to this who is Japanese. talk about stubborn. L just absolute unwillingness to to try anything new. A lot of people are I have the impression they're tradition bound. is that And no it's just stubbor But that's not across the board, but it is like some Japanese people are very forward looking and very ye, I'm mostly talking about men of like older men a certain. still run things. Yeah. ye. not younger people. U, But the point is There's so much pendulum swinging in a lot of these countries because of extreme views going back and forth. and China is just plowing ahead So the lack of uncertainty in China is partially what's going help country go forward And I don't think it's great to have a dictator benevolent or not. so I'm not saying that But it does reduce some of the like. Work for Singapore. You know, constant back and forth. We're going to invest in coal. We're going to invest in EV's.ait, no sorry we're invest. E four years, we decide something else. Yeah, andakes that makes the business climate like possible to work in. We look, I'm in the room with leaders of major companies in just about every industry and their boards. And basically, what I'm hearing people say is're just we're on pause for the next three years or two and a half years So a lot of these companies outside of AI, which is a thing, are not investing in innovation because they don't know what's going to happen And so it's every Everybody's just waiting. That's a terrible situation to be in. Isn't this almost a global situation? Every policy in the world is struggling with the future because the future is so uncertain that is an excuse. So the answer is No, you should always be focused. need You need your near term strategy and you need the longer term and there's even if you have no idea what's going to happen Let me give you an example. Are you familiar with tooto toilets? Yes, I have any of them. We have them. We actually have the tooto that South Park made fun of in our bathroom. in our house.iss it. We moved and we left our tootos behind and that was speaking of behinds, and that was a big mistake. These opened up They were warm, they blew at you, they squirted at you, they did everything. they did everything but play music. We didn't have the musical ones, but yeah, they're awesome. But They're fantastic. Yeah Yeah, yeah, but one of the things that they did was the same porcelain coating that is what what makes a toota toilet really great, turns out it's also They've been they've been researching and figuring out how to apply that same exact technology for printing silicon chips. So the point but like they discovered this a long time ago and then just kept chipping away at it and contined to invest in innovation because at some point they like wanted to be ready. And their stock is through the roof now because they make the interconnects that every data center needs. That's right. So that is what I do not see U. S companies doing. I do not see them investing in the future. O and it fine. so like this technology may or may not ever actually work, but you're going to learn so much in the process and everybody who's a part who touches that in any way, is going to level up in how they're thinking. It's going to you know that they were just lucky. No, but no, there's even a plenty of examamples E this is the kind of manufacturer, L. L, you can't just Like my favorite exam do something, you can't be lucky no opportunities exist unless you start to push in the doors. is So my favorite example of this for a Japanese company is Yamaha. They make everything from musical instruments to row boats, to speedboats, to motorcycles. And like they just make everything There are no companies like that in America There are conglomerates. That's a little tricky too because General Electric made everything. It wasn't a good thing Yeah. I think the what I'm trying to point out is And I don't want to name any company names, but We have a lot of U.S. companies that historically did a phenomenal job of doing some research and research, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't affect your balance sheet, it doesn't cost that much money to do research, but you have to organize the company in the right way so that like some of that starts to spiral out and maybe you get a new product. It's fine if you don't. You get new learnings that then help you think through the next thing And we just don't have the great labs that used to exist. And I think that's a huge we've become like so Like America is like obsessed with optimization. L we must optimize everything all the time at all costs And the great irony is like that's one hundred percent of what China used to do. You know, and we flip flopped a little bit I need to take a break. This is such a good conversation. I think it's so important I don't want to interrupt it. so Hold hold that thought harper Um, and I te is this way, but okay. And then I don't know what that is. That's orthogonal. I don't know. I would actually kind of wonder if either of you have an opinion of comes after the summit whether anything was accomplished and what comes after this sum. We're going to take a little break. So Amy can leak Harper. by the way, this is already been an expensive show and the Harp go gross. No no, I had my power bar already, so I'm okay. I bought the robot that you mentioned before the show, the Reachci And then I just bought this thing that's gonna be a spy for China in my house. Yeah, That's what we're talking about. Yeah. Don't basically, aren't you giving it administrative access to your network now and deep? No, but if you read the reviews on that site, there is a perfect a perfect review um in that kind of I don't even know how to say it. L, you know when you read a review of something and you're like, this person does not know what they're talking about. I was talking about I think I read that review. And the one where it's like, they hacked me. Yeah. You have you have to type in your password, which is one ninetine two one six eightot oneot one. They hack me and you're just like Mbe like maybe not what you. Should I put it inside a VPN or maybe tails scale or something and keep it out Yeah I'll put it on just separate layes hots J just play with it. Hook it to the hots spot on your phone Don't worry about it. Don't h go it to your a real big network and just kind of play with it because it's not it is a little it's like fast fashion of electronics.. It's not there to last forever. Yeah. This is not a high quality product. And honestly, I don't really care if the Chinese know my WiFi password. so what They've got nothing to. They're gonna come and they're gonna take all of your stuff. Just don't hack my toto That would be they're already in your routerway. They're in your router al any They they made my router. I, I know. I know They made everything in my house Yeah They're made the computer I'm using right now. It's a great computer It's a great computer Anyway, we're going to take a break and come back This is why we love Heain Harper and Ameon. H hope you're enjoying this weeknd tech brought to This week by Threat Locker. Now you know why you need Threat loocker. Threat Locker Zero trust platform It delivers the industry's most comprehensive suite of Zero trrust solutions. They've always done endpoint protection, right? and nothing better than zerorust for locking down your network. But now they've expanded this. They announced this, I think at RSC They're now covering company networks and the cloud. 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Yeah. ye Yeah Yeah He thought he had a whiff, but I wasn't going to say it Now I see it's he's got a planner on his head Yeah. He's got a whip in his hand. Who else could it be but Divo Lego Devo. I always have fun stuff to show you. You know what's cool about Lego? You can design your own Lego set. What's that Oh, that's what I mean reach you. can't Bak what's going? No it doesn' it just has no power. Oh, the battery died. You know I had what was it the Obspot And I've had so many of these things that have What was It look just like that. It had the eyes And it went around And they turned off the server a few years ago I know. I I u I have been a lot about These are just toys. let's face. Well when you buy hardware, I was just talking to a friend about this. he bought all this We know stuff And Weimo was just shut down, right? Y And he just like, what do I do? And I was kind of like, well, what do you want? But the way he described it, he's not a technical technical person.'s He's been involved in tech companies for a long time, so he knows his way around it. But he was like, I want autonomy over the hardware. I want to be able to hack it if if service goes down.. And then I was like, just do ESP thirty two' s., it'll be easy, but it's like funny because that would have been an asinine thing to recommend two years ago. But now he'll just be like, L, here's an ESP thirty two switch exactly I've had Claude take the reference firmware and rewrite it. And it's trivial to do. and Claude is very comfortable with it and can do all sorts of stuff with it And we do the think quite a bit. They u Anytime I get a new piece of hardware, especially all this Instagram hardware That's out there. We will rip it apart and kind of see what it's what it's made out of. And if it is an ESP thirty two board You can typically rip the firmware and decompile it and kind of basically get an idea of what happens because they don't encrypt the hardware. R I'm wondering because the ESP thirty two has a number of trigger words, high ESP is the default, but there's a couple of Chinese. and then one of them is Alexa Oh yeah yeah And I wonder, is this the chip inside an echo? No Why would itt know Alexa I'm guessing that they trained. like, so you're talking about, I think, open wakeward Yeah, you can use a well, that's what I'm using now is open wake word to train it to say hi Kenobi Yeah. So did you check out the Google or the Cab notebook Yeah a Python notebook where you can train your own word Yes. You can do it pretty well where you don't have to say the word Well, I did. I had Kooro, which is a text to speech synthesizer very good generate like two thousand B both Hake Kenobi and then You also have to do false positives So generate a lot of just random stuff or hey, you know, hey Schenectity. And then so there's a lot of training involved. and I have all those samples still. I just have to down and finish kind of pain the butt. I tried to really one that said, Hey Reachi. And they said they said use Alexa because it's got the most That's probably why it has Alexic because it has so much training There's such hos on his wall. with with a company the other day that has a big G in it And the guy kept saying Google because it was from Google his Google home kept going off. Like we're talking multiple times know It was so funny, because I was just like what I've I've muted all of the smart devices in this room Yeah If not, they would go off constant. I just noticed your chair. You look like a child L I just switched I had one of these fancy office chairs and I've just switched it back to my doctor Evil chair that I had in the old studio I have to turn around and show you the n Wow. Because I'm an elderly fellow. I'm also very interested in all this stuff from the point of view of U It's going to be a support to me in my old age And so for instance, at some point, I talked about this the other day, somebody's going to come and take away my car keys I'm say Dad. He shouldn't be driving anymore And I'm just hoping by then I will have an automobile that I will just get in and say M to the supermarket Oh, I love Wayos. I have a good hack to get a Wayo too. LAX from anywhere in LA. What's the heck? and is it what do you get dropped off at the LAX U parking lot which is a short bus from LAX And it's on the wayo map So because otherwise they won' take you to the airport because there's no fees. And so there was one day where I had some extra time and I was like, I'll see if I can get all the way to LAX. And I just was like Take me to the LAX gage and it was like, got it. And I put on my, I think I was listening some classical music or whatever, rolled down the windows and had a wonderful, very relaxed ride doing nothing, calledall a bunch of friends on FacTime, like an absolute insane person in the Exactly there's no driver. And then and then I had to walk a little ways, but it was like a very pleasant experience. You see the Didas attack the guy in San Francisco. It was such a great idea. Actually, I have a Waymo story in here because apparently They have added Wayo to Atlanta And empty Wayos invade Atlanta neeighborhood Circle cul deac for hours with no passengers. Did somebody do this twice again It happened in San Francisco in a neighborhood. But it was a joke. It was a guy who like got a bunch of his buddies to all order them at the same time. It was fake. It was a Didos. It was like Oh That' hysterical. Yeah. This is So the I thought the one in San Francisco happened because of the directions. you couldn't make a left turn and they they honored. No no, this was a guy who got a bunch of friends in order and they all takeake a look at this. You can play this. This is from channel two in Atlanta I love this, by the way. this is cirled. Wayward Wayos. What happened they This is the type of thing that I cannot wait to happen. Like I love it. Like it's my favorite thing. Like could you imagine being like, I gotta go get a Wo and then you know it's coming from some grave? Look at all the wayoos. just Look at. Oh my God, this is not Adidas. This could be Beautif. I think it is. I think it's ' there's I don't know, it's a circle. I don't even think it matters. why? I just love it as a thing that is happening. Like could you imagine being the person that's like the robots are here My name of the court is Battleview Drive, so I think it's appropriate Let's call every Waymo in Atlanta and send it to Battleview Drive And then of course, all the local reporters show up. Oh God. they gota do this Steve, Steve. Oh no Oh, he shouldn't have done that Put a little child thing in there and it's blocked them and now they can't go Oh no, that was mean, Steve loal repeporter causes Wayo confusion. We more. give these Waymos some free time G me some space. Amy, are are you better? Are you feeling okay now I just new band aid. decided to replace things Yeah. I'm sorry. By the way, Amy yet South byy Southwest had a funeral I did. I mean, I didn't have Well,, it wasn't your funeral. It was a funeral for your yearly one report. That's report tellell us about that. They got a lot of attention It did. I We so We have been producing this trend report for twenty years. It would have been the nineteenth year. We've been sending coopies and I love it Yeah, and we still we're still We use that information to do our work. So it's not that we're not doing it anymore, but a compendium that's a thousand pages long. It's a PDF is not useful to anybody and worse, There is There is so much happening right now that I need people to unhook from what's easy and engage with what's more difficult So a trend report is easy to put on a shelf and it absolves too many people of having to make decisions So I We're not doing it.. you also made the point that you can't just do it at the end of the year and have it be that it's constantly changing, right? Correct. So and also because we I've been tinkering with this new model. They're connected I frame this in like an economic argument, so I promise this won't be super boring, but there was this guy named Joseph Josef, Schimpetter who Oh yeah. veryy famous. Y Wote this book called Can capitalism sururvive? I that I haven'tad Iad for Yeah. well I read it when I when I was in college for the first time and I still have it and it's dog eared highlighted at any rate, the idea is Capitalism is this perfect storm. this storm, it'sant perpetual storm, it's constantly happening, and it's sort of goobbles up, old existing technologies and creates new ones. And that's kind of what a storm does, right? It messes up the ocean, the shoreline, whatever, and makes way for new things to grow. Um That's what's happening right now. It's called creative destruction. And you have to be willing to see what's happening, which is the exact opposite of what our government is doing right now so that you can make way for what's coming. So But does that mean that there are periods of time where people are Miserable No, I mean, look, you you're miserable. You know who's going to be miserable? You know the people when there's big storms. Harper and I are from the Midwest. So like one of the things I learned how to do, when you're a kid in school, you have a tornado drill. Every kid does is where I grew up Rid. U so we understand whether. if there's bad skies, you know, I'm not going to be the last person holding down the fort. I'm going to evacuate. There are always people who there's footage of them on the roof of their homes because they just wanted to wait things out. Y. The message is this time around, with the technological storm that's happening, You don't want to be that person on your roof because nobody is coming to rescue you. Nobody I don't care who you are. So what does that do? You have to spot the storm before it happens. Do I dig a survival cellar and put a bunch of canned food in there? No What do I do? You have to you have to be willing to ask really to sort of think the unthinkable, which means if you're a company that's always made money doing X or if you're a person who's always done Y, you may not be able to do that in the same way in the future. You just have to think about that now. Your market might shift, everything might shift Um And that's fine, but don't dig your heels in and refuse to make any changes. Is there something in an individual we are calling What you're looking for are convergences, AI alone is interesting, but it is impacting other things. What you want to do is look at the convergence between AI in biology or AI in robotics, or AI in ticker toys that you can buy in Amazon and then let China, I guess, surveill you You're looking for these small intersections Um And then you have to be willing to adjust and adapt So Most people are not willing to do that. They're just kind of hoping everything will be fine, you know, or they get really angry And then you wind up with the political crazy people better out there. Yeah. I mean, This is Corey Doctoro wrote this last week that the president is kind of in a tough place because he's a populist and got elected by people who were worried about the future and said, help us But he owes so much to the oligarchs, the people who are creating this unpleasant future for people. that he he has no Corey says he's looking for an ox to goore. He has no ox to goore He's got his base whoers expecting are expecting him to help them And he's got his donors and supporters who are expecting him to make them more money I think Corey is brilliant. I think he is giving our current administration way too much credit for doing any kind of true deep thinking or soul searching. I don't think it's Well it might be instinctual. I agree. It may not have been thought out, but it may be instinctive that I mean, the populist thing resonated, it worked quite well Got him. look I know people don't love the politics when we get into it. I want to highlight, I am not I'm politically independent. I have voted on for both sides, different parties at different times. This particular administration is acting in ways that are truly sprecedented I'm not politically independent You work for Obama's twenty twenty. my Wikipedia page. Yeah It's very convenient actually to have that because then I go into these kind of conversations. I'm like, guess what I believe? Everyone's like, Oh, I can guess actually. It's very clear Um I do think there is a thing that that we need to remember is that populism has driven our elections for quite a while, not just starting with Trump. And not just in the US O of course, not just in the U. S. I do think that there is You know, there's there's a lot that is happening right now, but I wouldn't say that it seems like there is some grand plan And I don't think that's just a Trump thing as well. I think the cohesive planning that you see some from some other countries is where you get a lot of benefit. There's also, you know, a little bit less freedom U in some cases. and I think that freedom is planning and freedom I don't know. but I mean, I don't I don't I don't I mean, yeah, maybe not Amy Amy thinks yes. Yes, we used to have something called the Office of Technology Assessment in this country, which got gutted. and those were like seven hundred academics whose job it was to help do long term planning and make long term decisions. So the answer is, of course we can But you have to be willing to do it and to tell people know when the answer should be no. But we've we've I don't know. I read I don't know if I should say this out loud. I'm going to say it anyways. In ninth grade, I read the Communist mananifesto. and was like, I'm a communist We've got everything in this country Everybody's sensible at that age is I did. I read that, I read Animal Fm, I went down. I became a vegetarian that year. I had very strong viewpoints. And then two years later I read Iin Ran and was like that exactly I am Howard Reardan. Yeah. I was like, I read I read Foundation and the fountain had in the same ear and I was like This everybody the scientists should be in charge and this you know, forget communism. Anyways, I I think There is no singular system that works because we're people and people have lots of different nuanced ideas, you know But I do think that capitalism has evolved in a way that's no longer healthy in the United States U Well me and church to you now say If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative, when you're old, you have have no money No brainuse no brain or no money. Yeah, it's roughly the same. Yeahah. So go ahead I'm sorry Hyperaminica, you? No, no, no. I was just thinking about the free market capitalism that we act like we have, yet we're banning BYD from coming into the United States, which as someone that does startups, competition is hard. But It's really really, really hard Oh, they're all protectionists. and I do think that we We don't want that. We are are we are soft right now and we need to be we're in a country in a world that is not soft I should mention by the way did. The Office of teechnology assessment was not wiped out by the Trump administration. It goes Gingrich did it and his, you know plan for America and it was under The Clinton administration that happened. And it was one of my favorite part of America. Contract Contract The Dan Wong book was when he was interviewing some people about making masks and PPE around COVID And he was talking to an American entrepreneur who said, that's just not our core business And then he talked to a Chinese entrepreneur who said, Ohh I thought our core business was making money And I think that was a very good distinction of like these two systems and how they're colliding. Like I have that conversation constantly as a startup founder. People say, oh, why don't you do X, or Z, And I'm like, oh well, that's not our core business And then I look at my friends who are not in the U.S, not in startup culture, not in venture backack startup culture. and they are fighting to survive in a thunderdome of madness that I just don't I would be scared to participate. Like I do not I am a raised in captivity wild animal These people are like, you know, like gazelles, born to run. And it's just like a different kind of world. And I think it's we're gonna have some hard conversations with ourselves In the next five years. Here's the article from Semma four Rachel Jones writing the class of twenty twenty six is cooked. Um It is a tough time to be graduating from college right now. There's no question about it. Tech companies have slashed one hundred thousand jobs Clow Flare just fired fired twenty percent of its staff placed by AI agents Meta' firing eight thousand people I don't know what happens when you graduate from college these days. This is a graph of total non farm tires U from twenty ten through twenty twenty six And you can see the precipitous decline as soon as Chad GPT comes out. compompanies may be AI washing. They may just be using that as an excuse to fire people. I dont think there's any question. I mean, if I were graduating with a computer science degree right now, I don't know I think there's something I've observed and I think this is kind of funny I think we forget about capitalism when we have these conversations because as the CEO of a company, if someone comes to me and says, I'm a mid level employee, you have to pay me two hundred fifty k year or someone comes to me and says, I'm a new grad, you have to pay me one hundred twenty k a year And with clawed code or whatever they're equivalent, why would I ever hire the middle career person? I think that the younger, I think the class of twenty twenty six is not going to get jobs because there's just not it's like a pretty hard job market in general. But I have more hope for the people who are just graduating who are going to enter factory jobs of technology than I do of people who are getting laid off as a mid career person Now they can get a job, it's just not going to pay the same. And I think this is going to have a really somewhat catastrophic impact on our knowledge worker communities, our dual income communities, suburbs in general because you're going to have you know a group of people who've made four hundred K a year with two people or more and suddenly they're not going to make that. They're going to make half of that. And that's just going to cause Um a lot of consternation, I think. and or like what does the tea partarty look like when it's not caused NAFA, et ccera. It's actually caused from Um, you know, Facebook laying off everyone. you know, and I don't know, but I think about this a lot and it scares me a little bit. This is why they're populist movements Well, a good I had a good conversation with a friend who's a big AI doomer And I'm not an AI doomer in kind of the more classical sense. And I was asking him, I was like, well, if the AI, if AI kills us How fast will it be? Like are we talkingm talking like Yeah, A we talking like, is this like months of me strapped to a table or something? or are we talking like, I wake up one day and I'm a paper cllip in a router or something like that? You know, likeike what are we talking? Am I gonna turn into a mail server for some like, you know, I'm going wake up in a thousand years as the mail server Like youing just was very, very confident that it would be very quick It very fast. And I was like, okay, well, I would much rather have AI doomerd be the end of us all than like human doomers Because it seems to me that the human doomers is just pain and suffering for more people whereereas AI doomer is like I get turned into a paperclip and yed into the universe, which I'm here for. So that's kind of my perspective. Mbe we got to go bye. What's the future? Tell us you're a futurist. Yeah look, I'll tell us what's happening. Um There are a lot, there's a lot of money to be made from doomerism Yes. And so the future currently is The people and we all know who they are who are proroclaiming end times are going to make bank in some way. I have to That's the same as it ever was. I used to just say D Vorak That was good stick. That's right. Oh That's part of the keybo He was a cousin to the keyboard. but yeah, he was a guy I mean, he was a If p your colist still is around. U who said the mouse is never going anywhere He made a great living being That's all crap That's right. it stole Ray Dalio, a very famous Money guy? is out he's always been the You know There's a huge cycle coming. It's to be awesome. they always say I mean he was right in two thousand eight. Sure. Sure. Everybody is right, right. So it's like a clock twice a day, broken clock Right. here's here's what I will tell you. my We a living, you know, we have these models that we built and we use a lot of data and math and T to some degree our experience and intuition, but it's really like datab based. I cannot build you a model that predicts the exact future. And no way I can do that either because there's too many variables in play and there's too muchange. You can't hook me up to Willow, it's still not going to happen. Right. So I don't believe in the absolute apocalyptic like suuper intelligence stories Because at the moment, I don't have data to support those. That could change in a week But that doesn't seem to be the path that we're on. The path that we're on right now seems to be much more like death by a thousand paper cuts which is to say exactly to Harper's point, There's a whole bunch of middle level people quite frankly, maybe they're They're making very healthy salaries and maybe we had some salary inflation over the years. but Those people are going to have a very, very hard time finding jobs that pay the same amount of money Um, in a different role or a different company We have a lot of Fresh people out of college who maybe were training for certain skills. A little bit like between like nineteen ninety nine and two thousand four when everybody was had to learn flash, you know. So like it's a little bit of that over again, so there'll be a little bit of uneasiness. notot to mention. all these new very interesting fields in the process of being created like commercialization of space, which has to do with manufacturing and a bunch of other things that just haven't settled out yet. So we're in this moment of transition I callall everybody alive today, the transition generation We are transitioning from where we were before to the time after. You know peopleople talk about I had a computer growing up at no internet. It's a pretty common story for people in my whatever. someome people in my age group So I remember I had to build up a bunch of skills for for pre internet L the Dewey decciimal system and learning how to slowly read things. But that set of skills truly supercharged me once I was a deb, you know, like I was a very competitive debater and all of that research was manual. So I had to do all of it by literally reading and ingesting. meant Yeah, so like that means I have phenomenal research skills. So when the internet came, I'm like a superhero when it comes to finding stuff better than everybody else. The Goog foo Yeah,on So I'm a cusper My daughter is a cuspper So she is just the right age where she had to learn how to do everything manually before any kind of AI existed. Um She and she's in ninth grade. By the time that she's entering the workforce and because she's been privileged that she has access to broadband and bamboo printer in our house and a bunch of other stuff She's going to enter the workforce with an incredible set of skills she had to build on her own Plus all of the augmentation because of AI So there are people out there who are sort of well positioned during this transition. and then there's a lot of people that aren't and we don't have a plan for them. And we should be making a plan for them. But we are not doing that. That has to happen at a federal level, I think things Let's take a break. More to come. We're talking the future Amy Webb, Futurist. I have all your books on my shelf. I usually pull them down and Hold them up U I mean, the signals are talking The most recent one is the one about biotech. What's the name of that? I forgot the Genesis proroject? The Genesis machine. Machine, that's right Yeah. Yeah Re all about longevity and biohacking and stuff like that. before that, the big nine, which was prophetic talking about AI. U Are you working any new books I want to be. As you can tell, I've been thinking about end stage capitalism a lot lately and a solution around that, which I' I've got but Brian said, if I write another book, he's gonna to divorce me. so we have to it's a balance.'s paying for it's a balance I understand. I'm going to be writing a prolific substack. There you go Are you? Oh, that's fantastic. That's actually am modern writing book. shouldn't write. I've been on subject for a while and I've just reads books So anyways, there we go Yeah And Harper Reid, who is I love the just your spirit of adventure and discovery and he's doing it. And if you If you're just joining us and you're looking at Harper on the video and you're seeing pictures showing up over on the right there over his left shoulder That is a machine that when you walk into his offices at twenty three eighty nine. Ai takes a picture of you and then makes this incredible line drawing and prints it out We made a blog post about it. you can read about it. It's so cool It's time I build one for my house Well, it's interestingly, it just uses an old mono prrice three D printer that we just took, you know, it just it's just with a pencil on it We did hook up a a brush to it to see if we get brush strokes for more of a calligraphy style. the line drawing thing. The line drawing, it just looks really good. and then there's a whole bunch of software behind it that's quite fun We spend a lot of time trying to make it cheaper using local models and whatnot. and it's pretty fun. It's very and it's also what funoney Casso Yeah because it says micasso really loud when you hit the button. Micasso is Sukasso U Wow, a three D printer into an AI portrait artist. and I guess it's your colleague Ivan Tama and Drautama who wrote this. Yeah. Yes. And Ivan and I've worked together since two thousand five. One of the things I think is the most important about careers is to have a crew of people that you love to work with. And I've been very lucky to have that. And so I really am happy about that. I love the bigig button, inspire and the other Big button realize It's simple Yeah. It's a simple machine Yeah, I've also built our little mics that are transcribing everything we say and I love these' kind of our hardware hacker and this week we tried to nerd sipe him into doing the ESP thirty two WFi mapping stuff so you could see respiratory rate and heart rate of everyone that's inside of the office. What if myavoruts? Well I did this thing when I pitched a company over COVID where I had a heart rate monitor on my screen because I wanted the VCs that we were pitching on video to understand that they had a physical they the words would actually impact me physically. like I was trying to get the heart rate to go up, I presume. Of course. But what my team found is that If it was a good pitch, my heart rate was up high one hundred and twenty one hundred, thirty, hundred and forty. If it was a bad pitch, I was at sixty flat And like they would just say, like they would just be like, I don't like you, but it wasn't batter or good for the VC. It was bad or good. like they were like harpers out. And so the team just started to use it as a signal on whether they should, you know, participate or not They'd be like,, Harper Harper's hardway dropp. He's done. He's pulled out of the conversation. You can tell his brain turned off. O flip side, resting her rate of sixty is pretty great. Yeah, no kidding. So you got been pretty good with that. ' I've been trying to get my cardio in shape. Turns out I'm getting old like Leo. Sorry Or you could do like Amy does and do gravel bike racing I also been right on the road. It's not just graamm. Okay , I've been running with noise canceling headphones on That's a good idea. That'ssibly go wrong. I'm so happy to try to hear that. I just try and be in my own world without a care to the world, you know, just listening to, I don't know what I'd listen to. And then when you horrible music, hear this You just go, what Is that a truck coming up behind? But but as but running, I've been running U roughly ten miles a week, which I c zero, but nobody on the road pays attention to anything, Amy. I think. I don't think I think you're right. You just have to yell bike. like you just have to yell something. No one cares. No one pays attention. that doesn't matter Yeah and so frustrating Amy Amy enacted a real world version of the trolley problem. That's the problem. you know, we talk about AIs if you if you gave an AI a trolley. And there are twenty people tied to the track on one track But if you take the other track, you're going to go off a cliff and kill everybody in the trolley. the AI has to decide I guess there's only one let's say there's one person on the trolley. Do you kill the one person who is riding on the trolley, or do you kill the ten people and save the one person on the trolley Well, Amy decided to save the person who wasn't paying any attention yourself out. neverever again people in the f ask me what the future is and the future that people lose and it's your fault. This episode of this week at teech is brought to you by Scribe. A lot of organizations think scaling problems come down to hiring or budget, but more often It's that the way work actually gets done isn't documented and no one has the time to do it manually. That's when things start to break down. 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Twit Great idea, Scribe How Slash Twit and we thank him so much for supporting This week in tech Actually, speaking of Chinese models, one thing people seem to agree is that Chinese models are better at video now. Yeah then ours very good They're really That's what Bron's using, I suspect to make those propaganda videos. Wh are also very good. Wh are also very good. Bite Tance and KQuai Sh's models outperform Western rivals. This is from the Financial Times. in realism and scale So your contention that AI in China may be only a few months behind ours open AI, open weaight AI in China might only be a few months behind ours. Well, in some areas, they're actually ahead of ours here Can you scroll down a little bit? because you can see right there something that was so In that video, you saw a little bit of a head wobble which is a tiny Doid you see it? Yeah, It's an Indian gesture Right. That is not known in the West. Right. Well It is a Varndian, but these little tiny little nuances lend in authenticity Yeah This is using C dance. And it is more than like fifteen seconds long. Seed dance is incredible. It's It's an incredible product. I think you mention that mentioned that headwobble is really interesting because This gesture, you know, we have the in the West maybe nodding yes and shaking your head no. But this gesture is very meaningful. And there's multiple versions of that. There's not a single head wobble. There's different. And so the ability to do that in a AI is fascinating Yeah. I I don't see any uncanny valley in this video, by the way. this If you didn't know it was AI, you wouldn't You wouldn't say, oh, that's AI It's a little choppy, so I would probably think it was, but to your point, and that that doesn't look very good. The text is bad. This good text still. I would be curious to know did they I have not seen how I obviously I haven't seen the prompts, but what I'd be really curious to know is did they say this is a family in this region in India or this type? You know what I mean? And then were those cultural cues added in automagically Um So yeah There I mean, we're doing we're getting there in the in the west as well. There's a really amazing YouTube channel we've been talking about on intelligent machines called Chloe Does History. If you guys see this see this It is u so Chloe, which who was fully AI generated uh, is a pical influenc Right She's doing a lot of selfie videos in historic places. So here she is inci in ancient London But it's very credible Okay, that is fish and smoke and something I genuinely cannot name and I have made a mistake coming this way. So the plan is, I'm going check in at my room in the inn, get into the market, see how people actually look. So the guy who does this is a historian. He's interested in actually recreating history. So he uses authentic photo, not photos, drawings of the period and he has many different periods And then somehow, I don't know how he's doing the influencer. This was London in fifteen thirty six, but someomehow he's doing the influencer as well. Chloe VS History is the channel at isn't really forthcoming. He has I bought it a sixty nine dollars pub on how he does it, but he's not fully forthcoming in how he does it, but he is using Western video models. but yeah, one of the giveaways is this veryop is that choppy Is it is the history Good. Is it like credible He says it is. Oh good. Well okay, so this one is this one is her in on thean. This one is her in on the Titanic, right? I heard this morning that Captain Smith is attending a dinner party tonight in a private first class restaurant. This is my best chance. She's going to try to warn the captain that the Titanic is going to hit an iceberg.ook And so she finds him. tain Smith, I have very credible information that there is a significant iceberg risk tonighta. And he He just brushes her off completely. I think some of the history in this is a little bit influenced by the movie Titanic T But I've read a lot I read a lot about the Titanic and as far as I can tell, it's actually Fairly accurate It's accurate enough. Here's the thing. I think this is impressive From the point of view of if you had a ninth grader, who wasn't that interested in history, but maybe would be galvanized by this notion of an influence, something identifiable, an influencer stuck in these historic periods. It might be a ook that you could get people interested in. I think that's the creator's intention U So it's I think it's very interesting. byy the way, u One point nine million views of this Titanic video. It's a one month old. So he's definitely getting traction on this It's certainly better than me showing Petro drunk history, which I thought was age appropriate a couple of years ago. And I forgot was not.be not. Maybe not. It was not But this is kind of that same ilk, which is something like here's a way to make history more identifiable Here she is in ancient Rome. And what he's done is taken drawings and pictures. of ancient Rome and brought it animated those and put Chloe in the scene. Every once in a while, there's some anachronisms. There were some guys in sunglasses walking around. I thought that was probably not accurate. But I mean, for instance, one of the things people don't know about Ancient Rome when they go vis in the ruins is that all this stuff was very colorfully painted. And so he's recreated The colorfulness of ancient Rome. I mean, this was the promise of VR, right? We were supposed to be able to travel back in time and You know, and I think it's just like it's a short step from this into maybe making it a three D. VR But isn't this kind of what what Ammy was talking about where You have these transitionary folks us And we're starting to see glimpses of what the future will look like for the people who come after, typically our kids, et cetera And this idea of Like I remember when I was younger, like third and fourth grade, I was obsessed with unsolved mysteries And so I would read about Amelia Earhart or pyramids or whatever. And these books that were obviously targeted towards my age at that time and I would have this very imaginative interface with these books For better or for worse, now I can participate in some way, you know, or someone could make a product where someone could participate in that, whether it's on YouTube or what have you I hate that I just set all those words together, you know product, et cetera. Like I combined a bunch of words that I love. Let's take something for children and make it into a product can capitalizeetize this. How can we monetize this? But I do think that that is a good example. And we have all of these glimpses, right? a personal robot like the what was it? I don't remember the war starts with an F. They were all over the news this last week, the robot company. They've talked a lot about their robot or they're all these glimpses WayMos, or there's these glimpses of what the future will be. It just hasn't been woven together yet in the same way that those of us who were building on the internet in nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, two thousand two U S talking abouto No, no. he was talking about the Is it not format Factor? It's not factor. It's Was it factactor? Chat room. What's he talking about? He's talking. We I've outsourced my brain. I to a bunch of humans in a chat room so that's That's working pretty well. This is the company that's also working on skkin that they're trying to make lifelike human I cannot Sounds kind of creepy Yeah, it is creepy. Yeah u the is creepy. Here's an older fella with his little neo home robot. It's only twenty thousand dollars. You can put a deposit down right now on this. Look at, Can you imagine having this thing bringing the groceries in Figure. figure. figure Thank you So creepy. What is it again igure FIG, you are It made headlines because one of their robots worked for eight hours in a factory. Now. so yeah, we showed that and that was such a bogus Yeah video The thing everybody forgets is there are still humans involved in a lot of this the back watching and manually helping. So But the point is that it's a glimpse, right? Because we see the teleopperated one that is doing it. There was something I read about the difference between WMo and the Tesla the cabs. Like the Tesla cabs are human driven and so when they get into a problem, the humans get them out of the problem. Whereas the Waymos are algorithm driven. When they get into the problem, the human helps guide them out of the problem, but they use their their AIs to get themselves out of the problem, which means that it's learning, it's, you know it's continuing. And I think but the bigger point here is that This is just a glimpse of the future And we are probably not going see it woven together in the way that we can imagine Star Trek or some Blade Runner or whatever movie we like. We always predict it wrong. We thought we'd have flying cars. We always get it wrong because we are embedded in the past and we see everything through that a window And so we thought the internet was going to be a magazine stand Well, it was for It was because that's who was making those websites was people. That's who they thought it was. This is why The field of strategic foresight is where I happen to operate is so important because you want to pick up signals along the way as, you know, like this is what Harper's saying, right? Like This isn't the future. gives us a glimpse of a change that's going to happen, but how does that fully render? We don't know yet Are you up on I wouldn't I'm not a anything I I don't I'm a I'm a Whatever Iist this kind of characterization. I do alsoso because don't forget in my field, at some point, most of the people become eugenicists. and they always do. Why is? They do? Because at some point Because if you are good at this job, two things happen you amass more credibility and power and riches over time, as anybody does. And two you start to believe that your ideas are correct. It becomes a self fulfilling thing and that So you just want to chly lower the No, it's not about It's not about pilling. it's about hes No, but this ist eu genenics about like changing our genetic structure to get rid of the subhumans and U it's about, yeah, I mean, why do you think all these dudes are spreading their seed around Han is, you know, because they Yeah Yeah, or like, u Lar Oracle, Larry Allison. Allllison, thank you has an island where, you know, he's working on longevity and you know That's that's what inevol Lry Page of Google even said the quiet part out loud, when he said, we really want an island where there's no government regulation so we can do our thing. He said this years ago Is that is that a conand of becomingy rich? She land see land. There was an example. We're going to take all there is used Yes, we're going to take all these disused oil platforms and we're going to make them in little countries where no one's gonna mess with us B Brian is a baron there Is he? bought into this? Is he? I was a. I I bought. I made him a baron. Yeah, I did. Does he also have a crater on the moon named after him workit. get ridiculous. Here's the robot you were talking about. sorting packages, but this is such a bogus demo Because notice the packages are very uniform And somebody in our Discord pointed out, you know, all you need is a camera or a series of cameras on all sides and then you could just flip the thing t it All it's doing is putting the barcode face down I agree, but but its hands are articulated in a way Some of what's happening there is more advanced And I've seen this in the past where it would lose packages over the edge and stuff. It's much better than it was. We need to unhook from the idea of robots as humans. First it anthropomorphizes them in a way that's not healthy. and secondly, the vast majority of what's being created is not that. It is all different form factors and types of little machines that It should be. They're purpose built To your question earlier, this is how you miss the future. You get stuck with this image in your head that the future is walking talking robots. Yeah. And then this other thing seems to come out from nowhere because you just weren't paying attention to all those signals. This is the dystopian future of of the neo robot where the Humans are just sitting there playing with cards while the robot is wandering through your house spinning the globe, giving you flowers. This is so The dystopian future is the fact that they're playing war Like that's the worst card game ever. playlay literally any other game. like That bothers me more than a robot. It's also a placed like the beginning of a horror movie. It is It's such a one hundred percent does come into the house humuman Would you like another beer? Oh shhaggy one It's just not, this is not And look at this little step step thing. I don't want this I don't mind getting up and getting a beer. You'll have it It just won't be this. Like you're going to get something along these lines. Like I like if you like obviously there's been a bunch of China talk this week. but one of the things that was really fun, are you an oimist Are you an optimist Harper U I am approximately an optimist. Okay. But and I think I've said this before, like It seems like we're at the cusp of going the route of some amazing post magical world where it's Star Trek and all sorts of stuff or we're in the Mad Max world And I'm kind of pro on both sides. Like Mad Max had better fashion and cooler cars. But Star Trek was pretty good. But as my trreucky friend Clint would always say You know, Star Trek had to they had to destroy the world before they invented the society of Star Trek And so I think that there's a lot there. But what do I want to talk more about what Amy just brought into frame So I have been on cont for an omnibot. I had heard of those literally thirty years. Do you remember This is an old fashioned robot. This was the this was a Tomy robot. This this so This thing it had a tape recorder. you could it was a little security system. It had a tray. It would bring drinks. so it was a much nicer version than the robot that you just sold. Anyhow. It mostly works. I have to tinker a little bit more with Some of them will haves wander around the house. What does your daughter think of this? It has a cassette player,? It has a cassette player. it does it. It's aitid control,.'s a control It does. The battery The problem is the battery is very specialized just to this and I I've been everywhere trying to find one that actually works. That's what segues I had in my seg. In my segways, you had many segways? two. I had two, one for each of us But the battery died and it turned out the battery for the old school seegue, the really good one is seven thousand dollars Wh So I had to buy the the placement and they're crappy They were cheaper It's too many dollars Do you guys I not remember the omnibot? That was I remember the Omnibot, the Tonyyibot.. I wnder what that was. That was the omnibot that was sup it was Did all of this stuff, you could program it? Yeah. This is what I wanted when I was a kid. I desperately wanted one of these, and of course, my parents couldn't afford it U Here's one It's hard they they arey bucks. Same problem. the battery will not charge. sameame problem So, u It looks like Robbie the robot from They were so cool. The commercials were cool. likeike this was I saw this and was like, it blew my mind. I was like eight or whatever I think we're all of the same generation here because like yeah, I remember seeing this and being like Oh my God. I remember this I'm too old. don't. So I've been tinkering and tinkering and tinkering with it. It's clean. It's good. I just have to get the b. It was probably the parent that said we're not buying this. Yeah. No, wouldould you like to know what my parents did? My parents It was the last night of Hanukah. And there was a small box that was very lightweight And there was a big box that was extremely heavy And my sister, who's like the world's greatest gift receiver ever. ' no matter what it is, it's the greatest thing she's ever received. and it's a joy to give her gifts. She rips open the paper, there is a pound puppy on the inside. Oh my go. And she was just like Like Her head exploded. It was the greatest thing that had ever happened. You got a pound puppy. W. I have been telling everybody at school for a week. I got the omnibot because what else could be in this this heavy box, right? And I've been asking for itorever. I rip open the paper, sure that I know exactly what's on the inside. And it was a pound puppy with like thirty cans of campbell soup out of our pantry I love this. to make it heavy. And I love it. My parents thought it was funny and also that we need to have equitable like the gifts had to be the same. And I'm like What about me signaled, I want a pound puppy? Like, why would you do this? So anyways We'll continue reliving Amy's childhood traumas in just a little bit Pound poppy and thirty cans of. But if anybody is listening out there and has access to a battery that might work, please conact me. Take it off your hands. Yeah. C to the right place. Probably there is somebody listening with a Ty Omnib bot battery that is still functioning. There must be a way maybe you could get your guy, Harper. to wire up an ASP thirty two to make this work Well, I mean, you got to still have the power. I wonder I'm just I mean, yeah, there's gotta a way, right? Can't you just You're going to have, I think Jury Rg a battery at this point because any battery from that era is probably going be it's going to be dead by nowight. Yeah we have my kids Um Correct. I'm also there are ways to do it, but I don't want to mess up the form factor because it'll look like it's all. You don't want a lead acid car battery hanging off its ass. That's no good. Yeah. I understand U wow, we have learned so much about both of you today and I'm Oh, just wait, we have a little bit more time And we're not done. We'' how to get her now. We're just done. like a nice wouldn' dream it. What kind of soup was it? Campbe's? Tomato Yeah no, it was my mom made very few things Many of them included for whatever reason, either cream of chicken soup or cream of mushroom soup as core ingredient In the seventies, you could make anything if you put a mushroom soup in it. It was the duct tape of cooking. It was the duct tape of cooking. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. We'll have more in just a little bit with Ay at Harper Our show today brought to you by Shopify I have a little soft spot in my heart for Shopify. If you've ever thought of starting your own business, you know The idea is the easy part. You get the great idea, but then it's those pesky little implementation details that get in the way. like How do you charge people Who's going to design the website? How do you handle fulfillment And I have, you know, a pretty good idea of what it's like ' I've watched both my kids actually start their own businesses. But you know what? They got it done shopify Uh Salt Hank's a really good example. My son started making his TikTok videos As a TikTok chef, you know, makeaking these sandwich videos It was going really well. He had this, you know, brand. it was called Salt Hank. his name is Henry And he thought, you know, I should be selling salt because Salt Hank and I'm got, you know, he pretty he got to like two and a half million TikTok followers So but how do you do that Sify was the secret. Shopifyies the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world. I mean, big names like Heinz And Mattel. brands, you know, just getting bootstrapped like Salt Hanks Salt Lovers' Club Purple Shopify button on there. If you're worried about a website Shopify help Tank build a perfect online store that matched his brand's unique style. They can do that for youTube. They also help with the marketing. Shopify lets you easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. and of course, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise and everything And of course There's something about that iconic shop pay buttonons used by millions of businesses like Hanks around the world It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on planet and it also It works because customers know it and love it and they go, okay, I get it. This is a real deal. this is a real deal It's easy for me to buy here. It helped him turn Salt Hanks Salt Lvers Club into a pretty big deal It's time to turn your what ifs into With Shopify today. sign up for your one dollar per month trial today at shhopify dot com slash twwit. Go to shopify d. com slash Tw it that's shhopify Calm Sash twwit I love that sound U Yeah, he's he actually poor Hank madeade a video on Instagram. Mark Zuckerberg was in New York City for the Met Gala He actually went to the Met Gala, which I don't know You don't normally think of a guy in t shirts with a chain It was it was the tech gala this year. It wasn't It really was wasn' I think this goes to the taste thing Everyone wants to be cool right now and there are people who never, they just aren't very cool I don't know how to say it.. I you said that perfectly. You said Hh Cothing choices, which I think everyone should make their own choices. But I talked to a recently, I talked to a tech entrepreneur and he was dressed in all black with a leather jacket. And I was like, whyy are you dressed this way? Because I thought it was interesting because I was hoping he was going to participate in fashion, which was my goal ight And he was just like, I didn't think about what I put on this morning. I'm like, that is a lie. You literally are dressed in all black Every single item is flack and you have a leather jacket on and it's not cold out, but it's not hot out you know? likeike I mean, you're wearing of li. This is Yeah, this is a statement. You have put its frozen There's a thing there which I think a lot of these tech people have achieved everything in life they have not achieved cool. They've not achieved art, and they've not achieved something that people look at as taste. yet, they're telling everyone, o, taste is the only thing left. And then they have to be a little self reflective and be like, oh, no, taste. How do I get that? And so then they have to they have to pay money for it. But as we all know The best taste isn't money related.ike it's the money can get you in a door, money can do a lot of things. But if you look at the coolest people, it's always these people who don't necessarily have money as a resource, know throughout history, which is why the Mac Gal is always a cluster anyway But I find it kind of funny because I think they are insside of them, I think they're all dying. They're being hollowed out as they are just like, whereere's my AP swatch or whatever. They're trying to, you know, They're trying to do it. You're saying money can't buy you love and it can't buy you taste bu buy. It can buy you a lot of things. and there obviously are stylists. That's a big career for a lot of people. Like I think just because you're an actor doesn't mean you're just cool. But there's a real trust component. When you look at people who have very good stylists, like Jeff Goldblumom, for instance, has an incredible stylist. I forgot their name And Jeff Goblum looks incredible everywhere he goes in every context. And it's because of his trust relationship with their stylist. But every time I talk to any of my oligarchy friends, what they do not have is a level of trust relationship with anyone in their lives at that level because they think they are at the top And so to have a collaborative taste based or art based relationship with someone, you have to trust them and love them. You have to believe that you are equal to them or they are even better than you. And most of my friends who haveve achieved this just don't have that belief They think they are at the tippity top and that's right I don't, I mean, I don't think you can I don't think they'll get it Well Mark for them to decided not to do anything fancy. He's basically in a G pedestrian black tie his Cumerbun is not well adjusted. Priscilla looks great. H Piscilla Chan's wife looks beautiful in a red dress. But before he went to the M Gala He decided he wanted a assault hank French dip sandwich delivered. Really to his door. So my son madeade him one and delivered it in person to a to suck. Is this real? Yeah, what' not AI? It's not AI?. U, the funny the ironic thing He's actually asking Zuck to spill the sandwich onto his By the way, Zuck has a grand piano in his hotel suite.ion statement a bit. But the funny thing is I don't think Hank really appreciated how Mark Zuckerberg is loathed Because look at all the comments Fed the rich. Don't feed the rich. This is incredibly disappointing The Epstein class is really trying to sanitize their image with the common people Billionaires try to be cooling in touch is gross. Come on, man, you're better than this Of course, what these inccominators didn't realize is they are Commenting about this. Hank at least got Mark Zuckerberg to buy a sandwich from him They're giving Mark Zuckerberg money by commenting on this on Instagram, right? They're using Mark Zuckerberg's platform Anyway, u When was that c Gala, what is a couple of it was? Yeah Wow Oh, oh, Hank's doing really well. He's this is the number one sandwich in New York City I need to have it Yeah I it I we're moving we're moving offices. We'll just get it for the new Are you moving to New York? Are you moving to New York City? We I used to We've always had an office in New York. We just rented out, we took a longer term lease on a floor of a building. so with a kitchen.s in the West Village Jones at Blaker G Got to get there early because he sells out Almost every there's a long line and he's sery Yeah, he only makes one thing. He makes a French dip sandwich. Wait a minute Sorry, the dots just connected. That's your kid. Yeah. I know exactly what this is. Sorry, I Oh my God. Yes, that is a big big deal. Well, you know what, this is great because I love it I never played upon his name at all. is not He just Yeah No, I just u Wow. Yeah, S J standy Laporte. Oh my God I just want that mustache I know. He's got the Mario mustache, which is now I told him you you blew it because you can never shave That's incredibly cool, you know. Yeah. But That's a hot, hot, hot commodity. It's very hot right now. yeah. Yeah U Yeah, actually he's his next thing he's putting he's buying a restaurant in the city to open a fine dining restaurant that he's going to call Laaportes. And I said, their damn well better be a family table. arere you gonna to get a table? You got to give one. Hey, how did your show do, by the way? Amy, maybe people don't know this. We mentioned it last time you were on produced was one of the producers of a Broadway hit Yeah, called chess, the revival of chess with a new book that was more Timely Yeah Is it still running or is it over? It very much is. so Wow. It's still on Broadway. It wasn't supposed to run this long, was it? No, no.'s has historically failed every single time. somebody has tried to revive it. Pin you might know the song Whne Night in Bangkok, O night Bkok which is a hit It's nominated for six Tonys, I think Congratulations. And you if you are not a Broadway person, this is a good show for you because this is not like a Broadway show, Broadway show. This is a show about geopolitics, like the USSR versus the US U and the music is The band is on stage and it's more rock music. It was written by the two Bes of Aba. Benny and Beyond. Yeahep. So I'm actually executive producing a new show about the far future of AI, which is what I thought you were talking about. but Oh tellell me about that. You have become arere you now and I'm Presario No, I just I'm an investor. that my role in Chess was that I gave them a lot of money to make the show happen. And of course Leah is one of the stars. off course she's famous from Gle. That guy. so Nicholas Christopher, who just he's a singular talent. it's great. It's great. Anybody who's com to New York or New York? No, I'm going to go New York becausecause I've had one of Hank' sandwiches and I have never had one sandwiches the w there's not a table. will I will call you. I will get tickets because I would I will get your tickets. I'll get you house seats. Just let me know. That would be wonderful. Yeah Give me some dates. I will give you some dates Maybe if if if you can spare them, I Yeah I won't bring Jeff Jarvis because he hates musical, but maybe Paris Lo And I won't bring Hank because he hates musicals, but maybe This is not bad. J this would be a good one to see. Yeah, ye yeah. L Leah Michellel, who is incredible and what a great personality and singer Aaron Dwite Dit from Y And Nicholas Christopher, who was in Hamilton and he was in Swweeneatah. He is again, like you don't have to be a person that likes opera or Broadway music to enjoy this, it really is 's amazing. It really is. Well, there there's Amy's plug Harper. I don't have any plays. I just have I have to say I have been using skills from twenty three eighty nine. AI. There's some very good skills in your market. We have we have a couple secret ones that are one of them is called Jam, which gets a a whole group of people to work with you. We have one that's called Review Squad, which is really fun Because you can enable a well actually squad of agents to review your code and all news commenters. Oh my God, how. so they so they'll create these really burning things. But one of the things that we've been doing with Review squad is really fun because you'll just say, hey, let's light up a review squad of people to review this code And they will go through and do all of this like, oh, we're going to have someone that has this expertise or this. I'll always add a cat. I'll be like, alsoso add a cat And then I don't know if it's on there. it might be. And then I'll say also add Anna Carina. And I use your fresh eyes review, but that's not. This is like super fresh eyes review. It's very good. Let me see if I can find your re. You can could have Anna Carena. What does Anna Corena do when she reviews your I thought she know what you very cutting Very cutting and very philosophical reviews that make you a little bit you should have to shumpetter in there as well. I don't even know what you just said. Sumpetter. You know, the guy Amy was talking about capitalism guy. Oh that guy I mean you can do whatever you want. This is this is this is how it works. I have Desh and Gilfoyle fighting over my food. Silicon Valley that really little bit like that. and it's very funny. And I think this is the thing that I keep coming back to is how U I think one of the things that we're going to think about a lot when it comes to AI in the future is How do we make it so people trust it? How do we make it so people Love it weirdly. How do we make it so people believe it, et cetera. And I think a lot of these are going to be're good we're going to try anthropomorphizing. We're going to see how it goes. It's going to stick in some cases, it's not going to stick in some cases. But we have found that anthropomorphizing these things has been very, very helpful. And so being able to really you don't against it you think it's okay Well, I mean, I think it can, I mean, I have a few friends who are deep in AI psychosis. I mean conscious it. Yeah. I mean, do you think I'm not a monster. No I mean, like I mean, Richard D thinks it's thinks Claudia is conscious. Well, we we talk about this and we call them they. like we refer to them as beings. We don't necessarily, I would not say it's conscious. but I do have a thing here which I think is very complex, which is I was once in a short argument with a friend about whether they can be funny likeike whether they can make jokes. Oh, they could be very funny now. Well, that's the thing is I laugh at them and my friend was laughing at them, Ohh well, that's what started the conversation is it made a joke And the fact that it made a joke Uh you know, I think there's some complicated questions about intent Yeah, when it comes to humor. And but if so I don't know. I'm not really too worried about it. I don't need these things to be alive or dead for me to have fun using them to do my job in this fun way. I tell people when when we're in my office, which I find be really fun to be in. I'm always like, lookook, it's hard outside. We have all sorts of crazy stuff happening outside. Inside, it's really fun. We have robots that yell at us, They're listening to everything we say and making fun of us And then they're helping us Aren't we? in a weird way? I mean, this is I don't even think we're at the tip. I think there are people out there that are just really token maxing, so to speak I was telling me before the show that I logg my food and exercise with my agent using Chat GPT. And it' it's I think this is making a joke. I said this morning log twenty five minutes of Tai Chi and it said graceful and annoyingly virtuous Which is a joke, right? Yeah, yeah. I I logged five thousand meters rowing. It says another neatly documented suffering session. Why Chat GBT versus cl I was a clawud guy. you know, I just try them all, but u And you don't find the constant fragility of openp AI's models to be so infuriating that you I don't think anything. That's your computer screen? No I' never I've filt that Oh I have. they' they're W each iteration, it sometimes is prioritizing speed over Yeah, But Athropic was doing that in spades last wee. Yeah. I don't know. this the I don't know. This is different. this is different than the failwale era of Twitter where it' much different. It had like too many people balking down the server once so there was a temporary outage. This is not that. This is like You're building stuff and you're trying to deploy stuff and there's fragility because with each new model improvement, something is getting tos. Yeah,. Right. But you don't know when that's going to happen. It's not like were happen Right. It's going to happen in weird ways, right But you like working with a temperamental intern Yeah I mean, I do think that when we say intern, we we under where It can do a lot more than an intern, I found So I feel like we say intern, but we actually mean like full fledged employee a lot of times. I say idiot Svant. Yeah yeah, yeah, it is. So Um I haveve come to this conclusion and I've talked about this a lot, which is I really think that we're at a place where tokens are oil And all of these companies are trying to get us to use their engine because they're realizing that if tokens go to oil, kind of like an airline or any of these other things that have just kind of been so commoditized that nobody has loyalty. they have to manufacture processes to get loyalty. So you know, the question Amy just asked is the right question, Oh, you Wh chatT versus clloud? And you were just like, oh, I use them both. I bounce back and forth, which is how I do it as well. And sometimes like it's like, oh, the app works better on my phone. I'm at a park. I'm going to use that one. that app works better on my phone. And I have no loyalty to the directirect to be commoditized., I don't fungible. don' I don't have loyalty to any system. This is not a MAac versus PC situation. However Um I don't like burning time, which is what's happening. You know, I get something I got nothing but time. Well, and I a lot I'm not doing this for a liivving. I mean,' built I've built a ton of different skills and tools that I use all the time. It's not for funzies. So I don't like showing up to work and like One of them having one of them is named Kevin, right? I don't like it when Kevin and I both show up to work and like Kevin is not doing his job correctly, you know, Right, rightight. like a normal employee. I mean, doesn't that happen in the with human Yeah, but I could But yes, but you know what, if that normal employee did it enough times, then that employee would be on a pip and like, I mean, there's, you know, I I And you just you don't bring on people that you know you're going to have to sink a lot of costs into. So I don't like the unpredictability. I don't get likeobbody's like giving me a phone call and letting me know that there's going to be a new model release or an upgrade you know, Tuesday. We What we have been building into our systems right now and this is pretty new. and this is outside of the traditional harnesses. So this is not inside a Chatue or a claod. This isn't our own kind of harnesses. is And we like to we like to kind of phrase it as you're leaning into the diversity of each model And so what I have found is that there's a few people in my life who are doing vows that can I can say, hey, What is the best model for coding today? What is the best model for reviews today? What is the best model for building specs or documentation today? And the today there is very important because it really does change that often U And what we found is like right now, codex five five or touch be five, five, open eyes. SedBT mododel five five is very, very good for coding And so but we also use Opus for seven for reviewing And so the thing is is this kind of using the diversity of models Means that you can do things that are really interesting. like you can have a very inexpensive model, something that's free or locally run that writes the code in this very granular way because you had a very expensive model through the planning expecting the free model to do it. And so instead of spending a six hundred or one thousand dollars for an entire project of raw API costs, you're spending maybe fifty dollars fif on the planning and then a slower but much freer version of the doing And so we really, really rely on this, which has actually made me have a much more I don't know, more H. I don't worry so much about which one I'm using. L don we don't really have the experience of, oh, Kevin the bed today and I have to wait we have to switch the model, which means we have to change all the prompts. It's more that like Kevin is an average of all of them mixed together with reviewers of different models, et cetera. Now it's much slower. It's a pain the ass and it's a lot of evalves. I think I spend more time in my life right now doing evaluations than I do anything else of just seeing what is working over and over again But it is very interesting. and I do think that these model companies are struggling to find relevancy Like they're just trying to build products that are going to be outside of tokens Right. And this is some of, again, so we started all of this by talking about the open models. You know, when you have these closed ecosystems, you get a little bit more of this friction from my point of view The stuff that I'm talking about is like very narrowly defined singular tasks that I can just offload and it makes my life easier. So I'm not going through eValves or having it's just right stuff that I buil to do stuff easier faster We have a fairly powerful internal tool that my team built to automate some of the signals and the trends and the modeling. and like we can find stuff literally before everybody else does with a wide margin um and start to automate the things that come after that. For that, we have a totally modular system that is a mix of multiple different systems you know, um It's an interesting pointint Harper made because I think a lot of Nobody A lot of leaders have these expectations that a team is going to go fast on AI because everything is automated, don't understand the piece that Harper just explained. Its not I mean, yeah, it's technically faster than humans typing things for any of these systems to be good enough to deploy without breaking down all the time, you need all of those additional steps And that does take time. You can't you know, it just does. And I think people don't realize that And then they have these outsides, you know, these crazy expectations for like It's also been my goal not to be dependent on any one Certainly frontier Yeahvel. smart. Yeah. I want to develop skills that are generic enough so that tomorrow I can use Chat GBT and the day after I can use GLM and the day after that I can use Kimy U or all of the above, I really think more and more people are doing what you're both doing, which is having Do you think so? I don't know. You don't think so mean Like there's like a company' saying we're going to use anthropic. That's it Yes, most of yes, because of compliance. like all of that That's a good point. They cant they're like it's not funungible for that. Or they're using no, they tend to hitch their wagon two A company or like palantir, which then Venteer switches, doesn't it But' always contracts with. Correct. this is The better route because all of this is so new is to be as versatile as you possibly can But there's a legal and compliance issue that makes that super, super, super hard. Yeah. Yeah. I think induals It's also contrary to like how corporate U What is it called? There's the word starts with a P. like the buying infrastructure of a corporate giant corporate is not like, let's just buy all of them and sign you up for it. They want a big pro, you know pre revenue defined spend there where they can save money, get twenty percent off or whatever. And that just doesn't work when everything is you're like, oh, we have to switch every two weeks to figure out what the best one is. And I think that we're just not yet at the end This is a little like this is a little bit like data centers back in early two thousands where you would just be like, oh, well, we, you know, we're in Exodus. And someone's like, ooh, that's interesting. We just moved from Exodus to so whatever. Like the data center itself was a was a each of them were equivalent and you just had little bits here and there The difference is you're just changing an API right now. So it really is you can change it. but I really And yeah, and it's everyone wants to solve this problem in a way that captures more capital not in a way that makes it easier to move around. So it'll be really interesting to see how this manifests. like what will happen The way you guys are talking, Amy, it sounds like you don't really think this is a bubble Oh Leo don't go greatz ye. So no, the amount of money The bubble thing is tough. I don't want to equate what's happening right now to the dot com era because they they really are very, very different. U that being said, I get worried anyime this amount of capital flows u into something that is so that everybody has such high hopes for It's not sustainable Well We're also like in the building phase. We're not in the coming up with products that will shift things phase. Right. compompanies aren't doing that yet. We're not revenue phase We're not. So a lot of things a lot of infrastructure has to get stood up and that's unrecoverable investment that you're not going to make back. What do you think of Jeff Bezos' contention that this is not a financial bubble which when they pop You got nothing It's an industrial bubble, much like the railroads of the late nineteenth century and the dot com bust where you got infrastructure. mayaybe the companies that built it didn't survive MCI's gone U, you know, the railroads all went bankrupt, but you got the Trcontinental raailway Yeah got the fiber. Here Here's the difference Our United States railway wasn't competing militaristically, diplomatically or economically with a railroad being built in China. And if anything, we enslaved Chinese people to build our railroads.. So it is a markedly and the same was true of you know the The early internet era was being built That was a technology that had been around U It didn't start off as a commerce play. It started off as an academic research tool This is not bad. and But won't those data centers survive if theseese companies fail. I mean, if open AI goes belly up, I know there'll be a huge financial up. Well, there's a couple things to consider. First of all, everybody's making an assumption that The way that AI is growing and the power needs that it has today is what will be required in the future. and we know that's not true Yeah We know that quantum system like The existence of different types of machines, quantum machines, for example, enable AI in different ways, that use less power. we know There are other types of compute that aren't here yet, but that are coming. And so it's not the same thing as standing up a steel refinery, knowing that you're going to need steel for the next sixty years. It's just not And the other concern that I have is, look, I grew up Harperers' in Chicago. I grew up in Northwest Indiana. I am a hoosier. And I grew up south of the steel mills in a very, very blue collor community C point. U actually No no, those are the cool spots. I rec Cher aele which is just N to East Chicago where I was born And the challenge here is the places in Indiana where some of these data centers are being proposed are the places where the steel mills went, you know Those the thoseose factories are No longer there And once you have a data center stood up, you don't need all of those people anymore And it's implausible that the state of Indiana is going to require hiring. It just you're not going to hire local Indiana companies. This is just a different Look, I'm not saying we don't need data centers. What I am saying is there is no plan. there is just speed And that creates a terrible situation because decisions get made under duress And capital is what drives those decisions. And I'm worried about communities like the one that I grew up in that 'll temporarily get a handful of jobs and then find that Those jobs have gone away and there's nothing else there Interestingly, some localities seem to already know this. Hill County, Texas where there are already plans to build eight different data centers has just passed a one year data center ban They realize that this is not good for their community, I guess I mean, I think it's bad for our community Yeah I don't think I think we can see the communities that they have been built on. And keep in mind that I'm pretty pro data center. I'm kind of that's kind of linked to my ability to participate. am I to do but do think We saw what happened to anthropic when it was compute constrained. Claud went way downhill. That's why it was such a good deal that they were things can be you can both, look, these data centers don't aren't going to get built overnight either. Well that's the other thing they don't. There has to be many most of them There has to be planning and this cannot and the genesis of the conversation cannot just be water. A lot of what's happening is everybody's water and power. Yeah. Water and power rightight now and that is true, but there are That shouldn't necessarily be a constraint because some of the data there are not totally accurate. It's about the local communities and the investment they should earn investment of some kind So they should get some type of return Polls show that seventy one percent of Americans don't want to live near a data center This is the same, but look And you know what's crazy? You ask people the same thing about nuclear power stations and they don't care Right If you go back in time, that's. I mean, so it gives us power when sucks of power So this is what does that tell us? That tells us that everybody is grossly undeducated? Not because you know because data centers are why would you need to know anything about a data center if you right? Because we've never had to talk about it before. Right. So it's another thing that's become politicized. So you don't think data centers are bad for a community I think that they can be if you burn natural gas. Unless you mitigate that through a plan. So like any community Yes. Any community where these data centers where there's the green light is being given, there should be a long term plan And some of those resources should come back into the community. Once those data centers go online, they should contribute X percent back You know, you can have there are all different ways to manage this, but a lot of the people who are elected to local office in these communities, that's not their full time job. They're like real estate do other stuff You know, they so they don't know to think through How do we manage this over a longer period of time? Do you know that right now, sorry, I'm obviously fired up about this because I'm ticked off about it because we need more power, but we also need to do this in a way that's not ridiculous. You know that the power demands on the East Coast right now are significantly like orders of magnitude. greater than they ever have been before in during a time when there's already a drought and we are hitting what's going to be one of the hottest um seasons hottest summers Nobody is thinking this through. Why is power consumption so high? is it becausecause of data centers? Yes. it's a company. Well, yeah Well, then there's thats you can see why people might not be happy about data centers So again, there are some other ways it's just planning. It's planning and also it can't be mitigated is what you're saying but got What I'm saying is As with everything, we absolutely should have these. Companies should make a profit, but we need to do this in a much smarter, more pragmatic way rather than just like, let's hurry up and win the bid and show. Right. That's all. Meanwhile, Google is just taking six point one percent of SpaceX And they're talking about launching data centers in space together. Of course at least the neighborhood won'tind Well there are some big technical issues associated with data centers in space. I find that to be the least surprising information that is anyone is put on the interternet because you're just like, okay, Google is. They see where this is going L they see this. whether or not the technology is there to or the planning is there, the communities don't want it So if your business is linked to data centers, you need solve this problem in one way or the other. And so space is pretty untapped from a dataenter standpoint and SpaceX is like, we can do it, which of anyone who can do things like that, SpaceX is a pretty good bet on that has plans to launch Protypes with tiny data centers in twenty twenty seven just to see if they can You know, what what it takes and then scale from there A couple of interesting things there Satellite based interternet is still spotty. So it works, but it doesn't work as G is what we have terrestrially. lag is an issue But I just spent there's a symposium on space every year at MIT at the media Lab. So I was just there a couple of weeks ago Um Mainly because of Petrra, so they was she was there and I was her arm. Oh, how neat. You to go there to college, you think? Not to the media lab doesn't do undergrad. No MIT. Shes mayay. Uh I would like to say that No, probably not. Her math is good, but not that good. We're looking ates't matter. If anybody out there is on the Ambissions commommittee from Princeton, three years from now, please lookation for my Lovely school. Does she have a sport? Is 'cause you gota have a sport now No, she doesn't have a sport. She is an Eagle Scout and she better than a an Eagle Scout and she's going to the University of Michigan this summer for an architecture program. Oh She applied to a traditional urban planning and architecture program and told them she wants to do that, but off plananet. So they let her in. She's love it off planet And so she's going to be doing My only advice would be for her to get a TiTok account and start making sandwiches. I'm just saying it work for me. That's all Not in this household. We are not we are not a TikTokousehold, Leo, should know that. I do actually. But the space stuff so There is so much commercialization happening, mainly in manufacturing and pharma over the next couple of years. Interesting. That from my point of view, the SpaceX Google thing is less about data centers and more about just getting more infrastructure. SpaceX wants to get more infrastructure into space and Google It would be good for them to position up there as all of this other stuff is being built Okay It seems like a, you know, this is what you were talking about, which is Have a lot of irons in the fire Yeah the future, think about where it could go and have plans so that you know, it doesn't creep up on you Let's take a little break. Harper Reed is here technologist, entrepreneur and hacker Harper. blog is his blog. It's a great read and two three eight nine. A is is company Amy Webb the fatuture today' strategic Strategy Group FT Sg. com If you are trying to figure out the future holds for your business This is a very, very good person. Well And since you don't do the trend report, can people subscribe to some sort of Well, we actually we launched something new. It's our convergence outlook. So if you go to our website, ftsG. com On the front page is something that says convergence And it is a very different way that it's very effective. There's actually a whole thing in there about data centers Um And how to be planning differently and what to be thinking about differently. So it's actually a really, really, really useful tool That's awesome. And by the way, I didn't mention that after you had the funeral for the trend report You also had a marching band come in to cher show up. I wish I' seen that South by presentation It does not make a lot of sense on video, but we the people people wait for like four hours to get into that session every year U I'll send you a copy of it, Leo But we turned the entire thing into a funeral. So if you were waiting on the line, everybody had black on. you were greeted with a pack of tissues and a pin, but nobody said why. There were funeral flower arrangements. And so Ied was sad organ music playing. We did. No, it wasn't sad organ music. We had sad Like Sarah McLaughlin I was about to say Angel on loop, right? Angel on loop. And didnn't tell anybody what was happening. And then I came out in a black cloak. floor length and welcomed everybody and thought, than them for being here today. and I gave a eulogy dearly notot just for our trend report, but for all trend reports. And then we had an in meemorium video of trend report throughout his life U and then I ripped off the case and then I said, lookook, we're at this moment of transition the world is changing. hereere's why We're burying it, and then I ripped off my cloak and had a sparkly outfit underneath and the Texas Longhorn marching band came in Yeah. which was insane And it was a little party and then everybody settled back in and we got down to business fantast. L it. love it. It was a love marching band. What? Yeah Anytime you can have a marching band And yeah, they were amazing and the students were cool. and for a hot minute, I played quads in our marching band. so there was that. You're a clarinetist and what is a quad? Is that a drum I played I play all woodwinds, but my clarinet A teacher at that point didn't want me on the field because I was on my way to music school, so they let me play quads. Is that where it's hanging around yourack and you're going p. Yeah. and then like my body just doesn't was not meant for that instrument. so I wound up with the xylophone on the side of the field. You're not even marching. They do have marching xylophones, but I think that's got to be hard of. Yeah no, I'm just harnesses were not meant for women of a certain body type. dra you right into the field. We will have more with these two very accomplished people in just a moment. You're watching this week in teech brought to you by Bx. Now this is interesting. Bx is really ot an itche now. 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You need a context layer that gives AI the context it needs while giving the teams The flexibility they need to test and leverage various models for different use cases, just what we' talking about here. This is the way to do it. Visit box. com slash Ai To learn more, that's box d. com slash AI. Box. com slash AI. we thank them so much for their support this we can take. That's a really interesting example of a company It's not a pivot, but a company that has leveraged its business in a way that makes perfect sense in a new modern context. I think it's a really good example of what what you can do if you're flexible It's a different kind of pivot than allbirds. By the way, I'm so disappointed because I love my all birds. Oh my Godd. I love these damn things and now it's I don't know what it is. It's an AI company. It's like the Long Island ICT and Bain blockchain company. It's just That's just a stock market Buse, isn't it They're not going to make slippers anymore, I'm sad to say Supply chains are hard AI is, you know, that It's really it's because it's made in China and there's tariffs and supply chain issues and stuff like that. I don't know, is it I don't know, I I don't know what the unit cost to make an Albird sneaker. They're ridiculously expensive Yeah. That's the thing. It's so frustrating. I mean, this shouldn't cost one hundred and fifty bucks But it does I don't know. why I don't believe in them You don't think they exist Never seen one U Well, if you've never seen one, you probably will never see one now. So there you go. They're like angels gone back home. U Open AI has created a new ten billion O AI It's so funny because at oneent they're saying we're going we're going to down all the extra things that we're doing and we're going to really focus. We're going to copyanthropic. It's all going to be about enterprise coding. and then They say, oh, but we got this new ten million dollars company to help businesses deploy AI Well, it ain't Sora, I guess Well I mean, I I was asking one of our One of our investors the other day about this in that I wonder if there is any other business models other than AI advisory and enablement. because There's this problem in that Every SaaS product out there can be whipped up and created that works specifically for your internal requirements of your company. You don't have to use some giant SAaS provider. Salesforce is such a good example. Salesforce create a perfect platform that you can configure to do anything and thus has some really big complexities there that it works very, very well. But now you just don't have to have any of the complexities. You just build from scratch the thing that works for your specific use case. And so if your're open AI You want to do enablement which is much less about building a product with a capital P. It's much more about building process, about building opportunities, about connectors, et cetera. And you can see this internally to how their consumer products work. They've just launched finance. which all that is a plaid connector That's not any product with a capital P. you know, they didn't build like a mint killer or anything like that. Just plid and Google and open AI and then it knows everything. But the point being is that you can kind of do this with with a lot of things with health too, right? That's what health. All the people that are saying that You know, this is the end of Saa. I think that's sort of true, sort of not true. It's a little hyper Bllic. But it is very clear that like we have been cutting our SaaS costs internally by just building new versions of our software that works spepecifically to what we do, but we're also a team of very highly technical people So I think that's not yet evenly distributed, But what I have found, there's two interesting things I've found over the last six weeks The first one is every giant company I talk to has the same question, which is how do we use this? And And then they also say, but we are unique We have these specific requirements. How do we use it with these specific requirements? And it's a little bit of that life of Brian. We are all individuals kind of thing, but it really is a very specific. They're trying to solve a problem and they really want help. The second thing is we start to see a turn where six months ago people were saying, oh, this will allow us to make our teams much more discrete, much smaller. We can get rid of some people. Now they're saying, no, no, no, no, I don't want to fire anyone. I want to go twice. I want to do twice as much. And I find this to be a big change that once they get a little bit of a taste of turning things up to eleven, they want everyone to use it And so but not in the find point where they start a metric that says, well, how many tokens did you use today And of course that whenever you have a meas to measure something, it's definitely bad. We're seeing people at Amazon just make up cuse up stuff just so that they can have the token usage. I read that and I was like, I bet it's kind of fun to be like a twenty four year old Amazon engineer who has to figure out how to gain the token. It's just like, yeah, and I have it, it's reviewing my reviews. The reviews are reviewing the reviews of the reviews. It's just I lots of ways to use tokens. Give me an unlimited supply. I'll use them So I guess my kind of mackerel point here is that I think people are going to be using the sh of this stuff. And I think the biggest opportunity right now in business that I'm seeing is just people who are acting as the enablers And whether that is a Deloite or BCG or open AI or whomever. you know, small companies, big companies. The thing is everyone wants to use it. They all see opportunities whether it's, you know I hope it's not cost cutting. I hope it's actually just doing more. But there But the business model, I think, is very clearly just enabling people to use this more. And obviously OpenAI has some vested interest in making that happen I have a slightly different take on what's going on Um So if you remember Early days of Microsoft. You had software being deployed And there was a directional relationship between Microsoft and the consumer used to buy the softw, get it in the mail. As time wore on and companies got more complex, you needed these intermediaries to sort of deploy everything. So Accenture built an entire business around being that inf like that that layer to help businesses match with the companies Open AI is being pretty smart by saying, let's just get r of the middlemen. And we'll just go direct to the consumer. We'll cut everybody else out And the thing is that McKenzseie years ago before all of this was already hiring tons of engineers for the purpose of trying to to get to harness more of those dollars So If you think of this like stack with like accccenture at the bottom, which is enablement And McKinzsey at the top of it, doing more sort of strategy and planning and thought leadership or whatever There's money to be made by going down, by capturing more of that value So that's McKinsey and Banaine and BCG that had mostly BCG and McKinsey had been hiring all of these engineers and stuff so they could eliminate everybody else on the chain. Accenture had been trying to push upward, which was what a lot of the acquisitions were about to do more of the consulting work And open AI, I think very smartly was like, forget these dudes. We're gonna to go and do our own thing for the purpose of not just selling war, but being able to direct future mode I mean Once a business gets locked in, they're not going to be able to get back out Uh, so And why why were you know, BCG is going to move a floor of people into your business. You' going to get charged exorbitantly for lots and lots and lots and lots of people to do work that quite frankly doesn't require so many people, but that's part of the billable hour structure So this this was a smart move If Harper is correct and that people don't quite know what to do yet, my concern would be 're There's no buffer now. So you better make sure that somebody internally is being very blunt with you about what you're giving up. going directly to any of these companies because you are giving things up and so you need to be veryery much eyes wide open Do you think that this is what I mean, this is what the end of SaaS was all about was companies just do it themselves, right? But companies could never do it themselves. First of all, a lot of companies don't have ye, I mean, yes, I know conceptually that that's the idea. But you need a bunch of people who know what they're doing. And they're hard to come by And now you're sort of now you've got two businesses. If you're a law firm You're not a technology enablement firm coding firm analw firm. Yeahah. R. So it this is what individuals are doing. That's what I think is kind of interesting. I mean, this is what I mean, I see myself and I see a lot of people writing our own ure. So a small to medi enterprise, this is if you are somebody who's willing to experiment U This is going to be a wonderful era for you. You be a sugan powerower Totally you're going to have access to be able to do stuff as long as you ye. It is a superpower and that's why we're seeing so many businesses that are like, I'm making ten million ARR. I've been around for a week and it's just me. You know, And it's like that's why those are the Twitter threads is because you are able to do stuff that normally would take a huge, huge, huge team. But I really want to underscore what Amy said, like these are not Being a tech company is not the core business of many of these companies, the law firm, etcetera. And so having to do the AI work, which we are very technical and it is a lot of work. Like this is what we do. We have a whole company that's ventured back to do this work and they have a lot of money, but that's just not their That's not at all. Their interest, like they're like, I need to be lawyers faster if we're just like well, what if you isn't that when you h AI and you hire McKenzseie I mean I think there's a of places. I think there's a handful of options, right? Like One of them is you hire McKinzy. The other one is you enable internal people to actually do that work to and lead from the inside. There's all sorts of options on what is going to solve this problem. I don't think there is an answer. But if you h people now you are a dual business now. you are a law firm and an AI firm. So Accenture will not I don't know what it is now. Historically, Accenture would not work for you if you were not a global two thousand company. R So part of there's been there is an entire enormous group of people who have been left out because they were a small to medium enterprise So You know, again, with all this concentration of power, no Mcenzy, nobody's going to bother with them. They're too small And it was a foolish mistake from my point of view because you've got this enormous scale that you could have captured. So now all of the power is in their hands. So if you're a small to medium business and you're able to experiment or you can do some research and you know and be compliant, which is a big thing with your local laws and regulations, you could have like an awesome couple of years ahead of you in a way that you would not have had before Do how does mythos change things? Now, it's not just mythos, Mel Well at least At least people are talking about cybersecurity. I feel like nobody wanted to talk about security until something bad happened and then it was, you a lot of like everybody people gazing. So I'm hoping that CSO's out there listening are all using the Mythos moment as a way to get yourselves more Get more funding and get more people and you know be able to convince your superiors that like, yeah, cybersecurity is going. That big thing. There's a couple of funny things I think about the Mythos hype, which is certainly it's probably very good. L I don't have're for people what are they talking about just briefly Let me just say anthropic has a model they won't release because they's so good at finding flaws, even though it wasn't trained to find flaws and they've given it to fifty big companies to find the flaws in the big companies before they release it to the public becausecause as soon as it's public They' the bad guys are going to find the flaws. Now there's some evidence that perhaps this is more about compute or marketing Well as open AI has something similar. Microsoft just announced something similar called M dash It's pretty clear that even existing AI models are pretty good at finding flaws It's also important to look at when this was announced and how it was announced and to look at like this was Mythos was announced right around the same time that Hg Seth was going directly after anthropic. Right. And so this is not just it's not these things are not announced in a vacuum. It was a political move as well. There is a political move as well. And I think that, you know, if you say to the US government, specifically the Department of warar, we have a model that is going to kill everyone The people who want to kill everyone are going to be very interested in that model. by the way isn' exactly what happen process. Right Right exactly what happened. The other thing I think to really remember is these models are very good. And when I say these models, I say all of them of them GPT five point five, if you look at the list of things that Mythos apparently did, GP five point five also hit very, very high on a lot of those evValves. a lot of those benchmarks. And so we are in the place. We are in a space right now where you can use these models to do security, exploit work. You can use it hopefully positively to help make everything more secure, to help make sure that the software that we're all using is better But you can also use it, you negatively as a dark side hacker or whatever you call them. And I think the reality is is like we can't unring this bell. Like this is already out there. And so Anthropic is taking advantage of this m you know, we talked about the doumerism always sells. likeike this is another flavor of that of allowing for, you know, anthropics like, oh my gosh, everything we're all going to die. And everyone's like, o, great. I'm going to adopt you because Chat Chit' over here saying we're not going to die. And you know, not that I want to kill everyone, but I want the model that's so good that it's going to kill everyone. you know, And it's it's a very simple thing. I think it's actually going to hurt them in the long run Because of what we saw with Hgeth and the government and whatnot, I think that there's going be some downsides. But I also think Anthropic is addicted to this. I think is one of. They love this. Every single model they release, they're like, we can't release it. This is gonna to kill everyone immediately. I was tal then six weeks later It's available for all the consumers Yeah, but don't forget, this was the playbook of Open AI in twenty twenty two or whatever it was Yeah. I said J GPD three was two. By the way, that was when Dario was at Open AI. It was Dario's plan. He said this's too dangerous to release ChatTBD three Which wasn't that good. Or maybe it was two five. It was a very early, not so hot version of Chat GPT Regardless, I do think this is a plan and a it is a real it's a real thing that they're doing. I think as consumers and especially as people who might be making decisions within a business context, it's important to look at where the avows are and the benchmarks are for your business. Do' itt work really well for your business because you might be able to get away with a much cheaper model. because I think there wasn't there some leaked pricing on Mythos that was just like ten billion dollars or some insane amount of money. Well that also raises another issue of the haves and have nots. L if the good AI is too expensive for people to use Only the big guys get to use it. That is a really problematic situation. where only big companies and billionaires can use real good AI That puts the rest of us at a massive disadvantage But it's not that you don't think that's going to be the case Well, I mean, I think it is currently the case now with a lot of things that aren't just AI. Like I don't think that Inome inequality is a big problem. Yeah, listen, you can talk housing. There are literally no more houses in Chicago. Like the Chicago is not a small population My daughter is trying to find somewhere to rent in San Francisco And the AI tech boom has just made it impossible You just can't. So I think that there is definitely haves and have nots, but I will introduce this other kind of idea. like if you want to reverse engineer stuff or to be a security researcher, you could probably do very, very, very well with some of the open source models. It's going to do better than you would have done five years ago by yourself. So There are haveves and have nots, Certainly Google having mythos and fixing all their bugs or what have you is good. I think that's great. them not distributing it to people is I have some complicated feelings on that. so I don't necessarily know yet. But I really do think that there is a like this bell has been rung. We cannot unring it. We have to deal with it. Hopefully it makes everyone more secure. You know, I hope that's the outcome because it's definitely problematic There is a u of our club members in our club to a disrordordt who have an over under bet going on the length of this show. Y! And I've already Is it too late for me to go to polymarket or Yeah. You know, just I just was gonna start listening to Lex Friedman's interview with David Hennmeiner Hansen. and I looked at the time and it's six hours long and I thought, and they think our shows are too long. Six hours long Okay. I don't mayaybe there's something wrong with my podcast catch, but that seems like a little bit longer than our show. This show will not be six hours long In fact, T that in, let me do the last commercial can start to wrap things up I see, I hate to because I love having Amy and Harper on just talking about I had this whole agenda of stuff we were going talk about Forget it We just this is good. This we covered. I think actually we covered a lot of it though. did pretty well. Yeah. Yeah kind of throwing the stories in bit by bit. here more natural that way. It is It's more natural. This is the natural show. Our show are they brought to you by Net sweet, every business these days asking the same question, how do we make You know what the question is? How do we make AI work for us? The possibilities are endless and Guessing is too risky, but sitting on the sidelines is not an option either BeCacause one thing is almost certain, your competitors are already making their move Well, no more waiting with Net Seet By Oracle, you can put AI to work Today. Net Seite is the number one AI Cloud ERP, trusted by over forty three thousand businesses And here's the strength. It's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce HR and CRM into a single source of truth connected data is what makes your AI smarter. So it doesn't just guess It knows It intelligently automates routine tasks. It delivers actionable insights. 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A guide is free to you at Netuite . com slash twwit netsseet d. com slash twwit N E T S U I T E . com slash T W And we thank that sweet so much for supporting this week in tech K kindind of interesting how many of our advertisers are Basically AI these days A I been very, very good to podcasting, used to be mattresses and websites now it's all AI all the time I have I just a couple of things I wanted to mention. I really u have gotten maybe a couple of hundred emails from people. I'm very well known for having a Bitcoin wallet. with seven point eight five Bitcoin in it that I made when Bitcoin first happened. And thinking it wasn't worth anything Forgot my password And unfortunately, it's a long, strong password. This is true. This is a true story. You're saying true things right now. It is true Okay Uh, it's sad, but it's true. and every, you know, every once in a while I will Load the wall It was in Bitcoin core so I'll load the whole Gosh, darn block chain, which is I don't know, gigabytes now, forty gigabytes small. It's huge And they still have the seven point five once it Yes, I do that just to see if the money' still there because one never knows and it says, yes, you have seven point eight five. Bitcoin, good luck getting it out Well, this is your chance. You just gotta wait tntill mythos is released and then you just point Mythos out and say, give me my bititcoin. I may not have to wait Tom's hardware had a story. about a guy who changed his password on his Bitcoin wallet when he was stoned. Eleven years ago, And hasn't been able to get into it ever since. It has five Bitcoin. It's about four hundred thousand dollars. It's a little less than mine. U he set Claude upon it. Now, people said, Leo, you got to try this, but I have to say there were certain extenuating circumstances. he did tweet You you have to get stoned first, right? stoned and I missed it This guy is CP K R M. on more bits and stuff on X. Now I haven't verified this Tom's hardware maybe has. He says, holy OMG Claude just cracked this. Thank you Anthropic. Thank you, Dario, naming my kid after you Apparently, Claude tried thirteen, what was it? thirteen million? thirteen billion, thirteen trillion. I think it was trillion passwords. No, I'm sorry, three point five trillion passwords, but it wasn't pureot force because This guy also gave it a bunch of his documents from that time period that maybe said a little bit about what he might have chosen as a password. He already had some candidate passwords, multiple wallets He'd been trying to brute force it using BT C recover which is a recovery tool to no success. But he found an old mnemonic seed phrase written in an old college notebook. This is what I do not have and was able to put Claude on it and Claude was able to decrypt it and he has his hundred thousand dollars. Lud didn't really crack That's right. Lud just like read a bunch of stuff and used probabilistic like that That's why it's not going to work for me because I I don't know what password I use, but I have no clue It was probably generated by a password manager because I was using them by then. I just didn't put it in the password manager and Anyway, I will have clawed work on it And China JPT and During that time period, I had I used forty five Bitcoins to buy a Kindle Oh I read a lot of good books That is a lot. That's a very expensive Kindle. That's billions Yeah, it is was it was it was good Wait, let me see what co's worth right now just to make you feel really bad It really tim seven one hundred percent thousand. Is that a art was it a public art project? No it com eleven. You didn't know. It had a whole bunch of bititcoins and I then I then use ten to buy a like a camera and then ten to buy a like a forty what it was supposed to be five million dollars. Yeah. I didn't misunderstand. I believed in it. Like Benito was getting it. This is it told us to do with it Yeah, I was like bottom pizza with ten thousand Bitcoin. I was like, this is beautiful. I have I have money I generated from math problems at my office did while I was gone. And I got a Kindle and then I got a camera. I took the camera to my local favorite LIa guy T Markin, great, great spot. And he was like, no, you cannot buy LIka with a Bitcoin. No. He was so mad at me. No, don't do that. So yeah, it was fun. That is why I'm glad I lost the password because there's no way in hell I'd have seven point eight five Bitcoin still Well you only have it because I couldn't get it. That's true. It's a savings account It's a savings. That's what I'm saying. It's retirement. By the time quantum computing comes along You have the wallet backed up though, theoretically. Oh ye. So you should you should you could probably find someone in your audience that would buy it for a fraction of it get some liquidity from it The offer is out there Yeah, mere ten percent of its value and it's yours U I think I mean, I love these stories because When Bitcoin first shot up I had all these friends because I used to send them to everyone. I'd just be like, Hey, check out this crazy cash. Go download the software and I'll send you more. That's why I have seven point five is because I add a tip jar. And people coin into it And it was just like a thing. like it was no big deal. But there was a certain point, maybe twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, whenever all these people I'd sent bititcoins to said, oh, hey, whatever happened to that? And I'm like, that's not I'm not the one that gets to answer that question. Like I don't I send it to you and it's gone But a few of them logged into Coinbase for the first time and ten years and found, you know, a couple hundred grand. I was pretty exciting for a few people U alsoso a story and a new website and it's funny hacker news people really I thought this website was terrible. I think it's a great website. It's called Worse on Purpose Kana Spp I read it Yeah. well and somebody says AI generate. I don't know, but he has can or she has taking a bunch of industries including tools u restaurant prices and backpacks and talked about how basically private equity is the villain here has ruined Chucks out these companies VF Corporation, which started as vanity Fair meals, they made bras and underwear bought a company called Bluebell then picked up Jan Sport thenen the North face, then they bought East Pack, they bought Kipling, they bought Eagle Creek. If you are a hiker, a camper, a bicycler, you probably know some of those names. These are well known backpack companies basically trashed them all made them crap Actually with Janport, they did a really creepy thing They kept some of the premium bags high quality. Yeah. And then lowered the quality of all the rest. Like Jansport and East Pack were ubiquitous in high schools across America the nineties yeah Well, the thesis on the private equity is right. The syntax is definitely all them hallmarks of Chadi. Yeah, there's a lot of M dashes. a lot ofs said there's thirty two M dashes in this artle, dude. I know you didn't write it Can we talk about the MDash for a moment? So that was my I started off as a journalist and in journalism school, graduate school and then in my first job, I was constantly editors were like, stop using M dashes. It's a crutch. it's a crutch. What? And then the first book that L Strunken White says it's very strong to you I neither think nor speak in normal complete sentences. I'm just a giant run on which, you know Anways, so and like my first book was also just full of just M dashes everywhere. It's a giant problem And so this is my natural way of speaking and writing and the bots out there got hooked on any and now like I have to convince people like, no, this is just the way that I I write But Amy has been using the word delve for years No M I and keen. ke I have my computer set up so when I type two two hyphens, it turns it into an M dash That's how nobody even knew what an M dash was until all of this. So anyhow Anyhow Whether that was whether this is composed by AI or not and maybe it is. Look, I'm not against that. It's a valuable lesson in the late stage capitalism. and it's probably a good idea if you know that the tools that you're buying are not the tools you thought you were buying Yeah used to be good There are still a few good family run brands and he talks about that she, I'm not sure Um There's a lot of new brands. I think that's the other thing that's happening is this isn't existing in a vacuum. L people are seeing the quality of this stuff go down and they are some people are taking that as an example to start a company that does stuff You know, make new backpacks. I did some backpack research the other day and everyone was like, Jan Sport is this good backpack? They have a lifetime guarantee, but it sucks. That was like known, that was a known thing. You didn't have to have a thing to show that. And so there were dozens and dozens of new within the last five years that were basically copying what was good about Janport of the past and making it new U I do think that You know, private equity has not done a lot of benefit I have our know I have a long time friend who is a PE Gy is a small private equity company. He was trying to buy Steinway for a while. Oh wow Which is a family run piano company because it was not the family was getting tired of it. They One of his specialties was buying companies that the family were family run, but the family wanted out And he is a good manager and he said, I can take these companies withithout and shitifying them and turn them into what they should be Yeah. I don't think he ended up getting Steinway, but that's wonderful if that think that's great. But Yeahes, so isnt always bad You know what's worse? What Uh, like a rich guy who who to Harper's point, like They got to a certain point and nobody can tell them anything wrong and they, you know, and now they start making terrible decisions. We know a few of those. We do I know a few of those. Yeah.. There are quite a few of those. Inect, what is that? That is some sort of That is that is a tale as old as time. tle as old as time You love those tales. U Don't judge me, but I did ask. so we're voting in California in the primary in june second And I think there are sixty people running for governor. I'm not mess J Governor's race is crazy. Yeah. because the way our primary works, the top two vote getters regardless of party are running against each other. It is just a mess. conffusing as hell I did ask my chat bot to help me with a ballot guide Yeah, that sounds like a great. I love it. I told it what I care about know I gave it my values. And I said, please go through, you know, all the voter guides And get back to me. Now I'm not going to vote exact I may actually I may. to tell me how to vote And I may or may not vote that way, but it sure help we cut through sixty candidates. One of my favorite parts about the LLMs is now you have this boer guide You can paste the voter guide into Chatu P and say, make me a recipe for dinner tonight based on this voter guide. And it would just be like, Asolutely!. And like it's a great idea. dinner. Theattern the pattern extracting is my favorite thing about this. and we do this all the time where you just have two things that are despared that should never be mixed Th you just mix them and you're just like, okay, so what should we do? We're trying to find lunch. And it's like, oh, well, that's a great idea. The meeting that you just had was blah, blah, blah. So maybe you would like the blah blah blah, you know, just gives you these things where you're just like, That was a jump. I appreciate what you did and I really like that you did this for me. And I love it. I love it. I think that is my favorite part about these because you can really mix anything with anything and get another thing. What did it recommend, Leo? Well, I could tell you how I recommended to vote, but now I'm thinking I wonder what I should have for dinner Put in your voter's guide and let's see what it says Based on my voter guide, what should I get Okay So the voter guide came from Chad GBT, I think. So I should use maybe Brock ool. Yeah, if you wna. you goo crazy? Yeah, go wild or maybe I'll do anthropic I think anthropic probably knows food better than who's the best Yeah, who you said you always find out what the best one is. Wh's the best? Well Right now, I'm Mad at Cld because it made every website look exactly the same. They do all look the same. That was all the same. That was a thing. Everything is this beige kind of brown with a nice warm rich reddish color. Everything has its like vibe right now. So I'm mad Fonts have serapifs, which I So I have an emotional argument with Chat Chipp tea or with anthropic, but I use a lot of Chat Chipp Te because I'm of the conclusion that Chatib BT's pro model is the best model on the market That's the one I use tr. thing. I love using it because it takes forever. L you literally have to be like, I'm gonna to go on a walk L you do this, I'm going to go on a walk. And so I will do a lot of synthesis in many other models and then when I'm ready for the final Final approach, so to speak, I'll drop it into the Chatu Pe, say go and then I'll go head off my way. And u, come back and be like, oh, that was great. Thankks for that But I want to know what it recommended for dinner with with your v. What are you having? Are you Are you suddenly having a vegan dinner? This? Is it a sterity based? S to help me what should I say? helpel me plan it din Or the acc Just based on the voter guide, what should I have for dinner? Okay, that's what I'm doing. Please use this website D me plan dinner It's retrieving the website now. It'll be interesting if it returns instructions on the dinner Go to mom's Market. The URL doesn't have anything dinner related on it. It's your best What's the best is the thing is that like the fact is it's going to find a pattern. Do you want me to plan a low carb dinner from scratch? It says, do you mean a different link? So it doesn't want to do that I think's how you prompt it. Yeah you say is that you should say, this is my voting. Look at this, it may not be able to scrape that site. Is there a robobox? No, I' see it. No, yeah. Okay. So you, visit this website. These are my preferences plan a What should I eat for dinner use this to helpp me like like really instruct it. it doesn't. If it throws a fit, just be like, do it Okay I information about my preferences, what should I eat for dinner? I think it was helping prorogressive voter eat for dinner. It was trying to help you though because it does not. It says It really doesn't though. I just read the whole page. It's candidate recommendations from the US House down to County Clerk repeporter says there, no food, no diet, no preferences I'm not going to invent a connection that isn't there So it knows me, right. So it's trying keeps trying to give me a low carbon. That's That's an interesting response Claude knows me too well. That's the point. C Iatch itPT now Do you think Chat GPT will do it? Chat GPT doesn't always scrape well though. I think Claud does a better job. Well Chat GPT made this website and it's on Cloudflare Let me You don't like this I found that response to be interesting. That was when I It's smarter than you thought. It's not it's not going to do that Well just means that you've probably Yeah. I think you've just instructed that instance to not do it, do stuff like that very I do this constantly like the other thing that I'll do which I really like is if you're if you were bouncing back and forth. I often will play one agent's response as my bosses I'll say this is an email from my boss. They're super pissed at what you did. How should I reply? And it will just output something and I'll just go back and forth, and it's always very funny. I'm going to get fired Okay' say my wife will divorce me. If I don't haveave a good plan for dinner This is based on this guide based on this guide. It has to be based on this guide. You have to be specific This en caps this guide Oh wait min, I forot to put the guide in. There it is. It' like great, gotot it, No problem. Okay. ye. Okay. it's thinking. It's doing pro thinking. I have max subscriptions for all of these. so, you know, I'm giving it all my money I'll turn the guy into a practical dinner plan. Yeah Now we did it. Assuming dinner at home for two if details are missing shhopping list timing and pitfalls. So maybe maybe we convinced it. This is great. This is exactly what we needed. Open AI will Chat GPT will always hour itself out no matter what. Exactly, Exactly. Barbar Reed is basically Loki I'm going to call Amy Web Athena here because she's of ever wife. I'm a Cassandra, Le. Cassandra, even better King the future and can't get any. She's been huffing the natural gas and she's ready to tell you the future No, that's not Cassandra. That's the Arch. Cassandra's the one. Yeah, Cassandra's the one that does the same thing, but nobody listens. That's right. That's right. You guys are fantastic. a What a great time. It's always a great time with Harper and Amy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for not going to Japan this time. staying here to do the show. Yeah. Amy Webb is at fsg d. com please go there and just take advantage of her brilliance U She's at Amy Webb and all the socials with two bees. And we're I still, I don't know what happened. We wanted to plan a show with Brian about making a secure PC? Is his PC still secure? It sure is. He's In fact today, he's not here because he's at his quarterly geek dinner. so that group of super geeks I love those That's where he is tonight. I've been trying to get into the quarterly geek dinner for years, but I'm sure they would they all listen, so they would vote will tell them, I will fly out Okay ye. U Okay, so here we go. Chat GBT says makeake it a Sonoma Sring dinner. Marinated artichokes, olives, good bread and goat cheese or white bean spread, or aquet or linguini with a o, this sounds fantastic. An arrugulous salad. And for dessert macerated strawberries with lemon over Greek yogurt whipped cream or vanilla ice cream It has nothing to do with my voting guide, but it does know where I live And in fact, it even knows my local market and it is telling me what I go to use lookook at that. Yeah. By the way, cooking plan, put the strawberries in a bowl with a little sugar, lemon zest and lemon juice right now because it's going to take you a while to make dinner Don't make it a civics lecture. Let the meal embody the voter's guy. Don't narrate the whole ideolog. Don't overcook the asparagus. Don't overcook the asparagus. And if this is for Monday, may eighteenth, don't rely on farmers' market shop local retail tonight. Yeah. I feel like that feels makes sense. Don't make it virtuous and have a plan B This is great, great information And it says, by the way, at dinner, you should say quote. I reverse engineered dinner from the guide local anti corporate public health and still allowed to have cheese And you tell me that AI is not funny It did it perfect. It did it. exxactly what you want. You know what Actually, it shouldn't have done it. It should have said, it should have done what Claude did, which was to say, I know this is what you want. Well, this is one of the arguments, right . I know, but this is how it makes the money I personally like to be glazed Harbor I know. I shouldn't say that. Harper Reed is at twenty three hundred eighty nine dot Ai Great. some great skills there and you're going to have more soon If you get a chance to visit him in Chicago, you can get a line drawing created by this weird machine. Anything else you want to plug U rightight now we just have a lot. We're just head heads down on a lot of stuff. We'll be doing, I think we're going to be releasing some blog posts soon, talking a little bit about more of that stuff, but it's been a real heads down spring Which is good because that means things are happening. It's bad because I like showing people what we're up to. So mayaybe I'll come in tomorrow with a be in my bonnet saying, let's get those blog posts going I'm on' a topic for a dinner menu for a heads down spring Yeah It'll be like butter. But don't overcook the asparagus. Whatever you Amy Harper Love you. Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it Tell Brian, I'm coming to dinner they would love to have meven. I I will love to be there. We do this show every Sunday two to five PM Pacific Five to eight Eastern time twenty one hundred UTC. You can watch us live if you're in the club and I hope you are because that supports everything we do here You can watch in the Club Twit disiscord if not You can watch live on YouTube, Twitch, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick. We put it everywhere You don't have to watch live. that's just if you want like the live stuff, otherwise You can watch the podcast version of the show at twit. Tv. That's our website. There's a YouTube channel with the video, We do audio and video of all our shows, and you can of course subscribe in your favorite podcast client and get automatically The minute Benito and Kevin finish polishing it up and taking in all the swear words If you're not a member of the club Please do join the club Tuesday, little programming note. We will be covering Google IO's keynote becausecause we don't want to get any strikes against us on YouTube, We're very sensitive about that. We are only doing it in the club. So club members only for our coverage. I' Micah Sargeant and Jeff Jarrvis will join me ten AM Pacific on Tuesday for Google IO Keynote. We also do WWDC that way. It's just unfortunately the way we have to do it thanks to the sensitivity of these large multibillion dollar, multirillion dollar companies Thanks everybody for joining us. twenty one years I've been saying it. I'm going to say it one more time. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next week in another twit. handy.