Meta Smart Glasses Face Recognition

It's time for Twit this week. Your tech Father Roberts here, Jeff Jarvis, Joey De Villa. We are going to talk about the IPO Palo oza from Anthropic SpaceX and OpenAI . And Vidia's announcements at Compute ch Mic'srosoft's announcements at build and what Apple might be talking about tomorrow. This week in tech is next . Podcasts you love. From people you trust. This is twit this is twit this week in tech episode one thousand eighty seven recorded Sunday, June 7th, 2026 . Evil is the root of all money. It's time for Twit. This week at Tech, the show we cover the week's Tech News. So glad you're here and so glad to welcome our fabulous panel this week. Father Robert Ballisaire is joining us from the Vatican City. Hello. Actually, you're not in Vatican City, are you? No, no, no. Vatican City is behind me. We're in in the Vatican, but Vatican City is a very specific space. So confusing. High atop looking down on St. Peter's Basilica or something. I don't know. Anyway. Welcome, Robert. What time is it? Oh, it's uh it's eleven o'clock. But I mean really I'm back in California. That's where my heart is. Yeah, you're in California time. Good. Where it's just, you know, two PM. Uh also with us Jeff Jarvis. He's on the East Coast in beautiful New Jersey. Normally we see him every Wednesday on uh intelligent machines, but it's nice to have you on the as well. The grown-ups table. Jeff Professor Emeritus of Journalistic Innovation at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at the City and University of New York. Oh, I forgot, we don't have to do that anymore. That's another one. I don't I don't even know that one. That's that's his brand new book, Hot Type, which is the history of the Linotype and more, emerges from seclusion. Just finished recording the audiobook this last week. Oh. You don't sound hoarse at all. It was I did it in three days. 300 pages in three days. Not bad. And that's Joey De Villa. Good to see him on many of our shows. He has a uh new job as AI developer advocate at uh well just developer advocate. Developer advocate, but yeah, developer advocate at NetFound. But my primary, yeah, I I'm really pushing uh NetFoundry's new AI tools. So little gateways for L L Ms and M C Ps and ways for agents to talk to other agents securely. Net Foundry was a longtime sponsor on our shows. We love them. Uh they're of course the creators and sponsors of the fabulous open source project OpenZT . Uh great to see you and congratulations on the new gig, Joey. Thank you so much. Do they let you bring your accordion to uh work? Oh yeah. In fact, I believe I played my accordion during the job interview. No. Yeah. No. Oh yeah. Wow. And you guys can't do that. Wow . That's fantastic. What did you play? Oh, uh my Afroman parody, Because of AI. Oh, nice. Because of AI. Because of AI. You'll find that on YouTube. It's a YouTube short. I love it . I love it. Well, what a crazy week this has been. I guess we should start with uh I don't know where to start. We it the week started with Computex uh and Jensen Wong for NVIDIA speaking at his keynote at Computex in Taiwan and announcing a whole bunch of stuff. Next day Microsoft's build conferen ce announcing a whole bunch of stuff. And uh then Anthropic filed for well, what briefly wired called the largest IPO ever , immediately scooped by SpaceX, which is gonna be the largest IPO ever. They uh they are looking at a one hundred thirty-five dollar per share price. Largest by a factor of three. The last the the next biggest one was Saudi Saudi Aramco, but it was a third a this size. This would value SpaceX at a whopping $1.7 7 trillion . Is that all? Really . Uh somebody did some calculations uh and said it's gonna have to to to meet the that value, it's gonna have to make some I forgot what it was. I wish I'd written it down, some outrageous. 60x. Huge amount of money. Is there even that much money out there ? Well, for if if the tech companies keep trading between themselves. They just sort of have an endless supply . So make it up. But but but Joey, you're right. You add in uh SpaceX, Anthropic, um, OpenAI, and Google's surprise entry of an $80 million uh uh billion dollar raise. Explain that because Google's already public. But we're seeing companies that are already public file for secondary Right. So they're going for $80 billion, $10 billion of which is going to Berkshire Hathaway, which is a big deal because Berkshire Hathaway, under its old management, oh well, what's his name? We forget so soon. Um wasn't big in technology stocks. I mean the wizard of of Omaha of Omaha. Uh and so Google has twice the at least twice that in cash on hand, plus credit up the yin yang, who's not gonna loan to Google. But is it a loan or is it a stock issue? Oh stock issue. It's a stock issue. Does it dilute the existing Yes it does. The stock went down as a result uh for a few days. Uh well then everything went down, uh 'cause of Broadcom. But um uh they're saying we're gonna invest it upon investing. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna beat everybody here. It was an aggressive move. by Google And of course, what they're doing is raising money to build data centers, right? I mean, they this is all right. Let's build them anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, uh, you know, that's what everybody's doing at this point. Uh Meta's stock took a big hit uh when it they announced in their quarterly results they were going to spend a huge amount. Google actually said they were going to spend I think $180 billion dollars in data centers. And that didn't hurt their stock. Amazon announced a similar figure. I mean, do we need all these data centers? Is that is uh it feels this is making it feel more bubbly all the time. And I'm not a big proponent of the Aaron Powell Look at what they've already spent. You've got Amazon who is close to $300 billion already. It's $291 billion that they've invested into AI. You've got Alphabet, you've got Google going with $262 billion. Meta is what, something like $227 billion? You've got XAI that spent $20 billion just to build out their ec uh their AI infrastructure, and they're basically just renting out the raw capacity to Anthropic and uh and now to Google. So yes, they they they will build them, yes, they will use them, but whether or not they're gonna make money off of them, that's a huge unknown. There is some question of whether they'll be able to build them. We're starting to see data center bands now. Oh, you see this in Canada, Joey? Don't know actually, because I uh well, I mean I'm I'm operating out of Tampa. Oh Florida. Oh I I do visit Toronto on occasion. Um I have not uh from my friends, uh I haven't heard much, but they haven't talked much about building data centers in Canada yet. But you know what? It's cold there. There's a lot of water. There's a lot of hydropower. I wouldn't be surprised. is suing Shark Tank investor Kevin O'Leary over his massive uh data center. Mega massive, right? I mean it's just he's actually agreed to scale it down. But to some d is he wearing a chain? He has been dressing really weirdly lately. Yeah. He's a case. He's a head case. Okay. Lurry. Uh I just noticed that picture in this NBC news report. Uh okay. Um anyway, um uh I think there's some question whether these data centers will even be built, right? Or no, Leo. It's like the overbuild in fiber back in the day in the early part of the century. Is it because is it an overbuild, but is it an overbuild that will end up being used, or is it an overbuild that won't be being used because things just get more efficient? There's new paradigms. There's not as much use as we thought. The latter. Absolutely the latter. I mean when you had the build out of telecom infrastructure, when it went dark because those companies went under, you were able to to buy it for pennies on the dollar, but you could s use the same fiber. So the expensive part persisted. You could you could continue that into a future investment. When these data centers are no longer being used, and that's coming up very, very fast, they're useless. For example, XAI's $20 billion build out . They use the previous generation NVIDIA chips, which have already been surpassed by Vera Rubin. Now you might say, well, they'll just keep using the old chips, except VeraRubin is so much more efficient than the old chips right that it's you're you're you're gonna get to a point where it's no longer economically feasible to keep running them and using up all that power when you could get two x three x performance from the new chips. Really good point Padre There's a report from uh Janice Henderson uh analysts say that the key risk of the data center uh story is un under delivery and they have some numbers to back it up. The the promised delivery uh by twenty th irty uh is a hundred fifty seven gigawatts. The total expected uh by uh twenty thirty eighty four fifty four percent of the total . So uh uh slow. Yeah. Yeah. Well most of the places , yeah. You can't get power. So you're gonna be independently generating your own power with portable turbines, which are not super efficient, which are really bad for for water usage, and gas basically yeah, it's it hits your economics. Yeah. Well it won't matter, folks, because anthropic is just said we have to stop. Oh, that's I knew Jeff would like somehow steer that into the conversation as quickly as possible. Uh yeah, this was later on back. We'll get to that one. Well, we can do it now. Uh I don't mind. It's an interesting uh story. It's more interesting, frankly, than the data centers. Uh Anthropic put out a uh piece when AI builds itself uh claiming that they are making great progress towards recursive self-improvement. Now, this in some respects is the holy grail towards uh artificial general intelligence is an AI that improves itself so fast that They say this is from the Anthropic paper, engineers at Anthropic ship eight times as much code per quarter as they did in twenty twenty one twenty twenty five . I mean, is it good code? Is it usable code? I don't know. Uh eight times as many bugs maybe. Who knows? They say eighty percent of Claude is now vibecoded. I believe that, especially with the release cadence of these. And that maybe that's the that's the data point that maybe confirms this opinion is that all of the main AI companies are releasing models at a rapid clip. At least the ones in the US. Deep Seek, you know, isn't moving that fast. It took a year. Uh but uh both OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, even Microsoft are shipping models very, very rapidly. More rapidly, right? The cadence is stepped up. As of May 2026, according to Anthropic, more than eighty percent of the code we merge into Anthropic's code base was authored by Claude . Before February 2025, that number was in the low single digits . So they say, and here's the graph , code contributed per person by quarter. This is the eight X . Uh and m mythos is the most recent model, and that's where the eight X is really uh showing itself. And they extrapolate from that to self- witting. Because I remember when companies started looking at how many commits you make. Elon Musk was famous for that. I want to know how many commits you've made to the repository. Well, people just started committing everything. Every little change was a commit. So I I need to know how you're actually measuring the code contributions before I I would agree that it's improving your code base. Well here's what they call the success rate for each clawed code session. Uh open end problems is the bottom line, the dark blue line, and that that was a pretty low success rate, hovering below twenty percent until uh December of twenty twenty five. What happened in December? Oh, that's when Opus four six four five came out. And it's been soaring ever since. And Mythos is this jump here? So now open-ended problems are being solved at a rate well above seventy percent . Uh you're seeing similar things with trivial tasks, routine tasks, and substantial tasks. All three of those are over 80% success. But that too is a moving target. So how how do you percent of what? Um The session is deemed successful if success rate agent clearly succeeded at the user's tasks , and this is important without requiring correction. Correction. So that's the idea that it can do this by itself . If it can do it by itself, the theory is, then it can do it at at uh before we kill again. Self-improvement at scale. At scale. Coming. I don't think we've got it. Well, and that's why they say we're getting close enough now that we really oughta think of pausing . We're not gonna do it. But if everybody Once we have our IPO in, we're gonna pull the ladder up behind us. Mm-hmm Well, and you know, even if you did that the Chinese are rushing as fast as they can to keep up. Right. And catch up. I go back to the the quote from uh intelligent machines that I use from Charlie Munger of uh of Berkshire Hathaway who said show me your incentives and I will tell you your outcomes. The incentive right now is to be the first. There is no prize for second place. You have the first fully functional model . Well, everyone's gonna race to that. And saying pause does not meet it doesn't match the incentive. So that's not gonna be the outcome. Every time I think anthropic, because I I'm out the there's still doomers there. There's still kind of Tesco people there. But then they do amazing work and they come out with Claude they they they seduce Leo Laporte, who's a smart guy, and he and he marries Claudette and and they do some phenomenal things and they're and they're and they're there's great and then they come out with this kind of stuff that makes me say, well, no, no . Mythos . Mythos, which was the one that everybody said, Oh, that's just, you know, marketing. Um Anthropic said, We're not gonna release this to the public because it's just too good and it's really good at finding flaws. It's actually good. Turns out to be really good at finding flaws. They did they oversell it, Father Robert? They did not. It is extremely good. If you if you're a security professional and you the first time you get your hands on mythos uh it will make you have a lot of self reflection about your chosen career honestly seriously yeah as if you're or or as if you've been doing a bad job all these years? No, it's just that when you've got a piece of software, you know what you days and weeks, that's that's hard. And I mean we it's not a script kiddie tool. This is not just hammering uh and looking for for vulnerabilities. This is an intelligent tool that is using the corpus of knowledge that came before it in order to find potential flaws in softwares and services. That's that's incredible. That's that's exceptional . It's a very weird world we live in where I think it's simultaneously true. That AI is oversold, undersold. Yes. Is is is is you know close to conscious is just spicy autocorrect. All of this seems to be true at the same time . It's like seven blind men and an elephant . That old uh you know I think that disparity can be explained by if you have a specific use case for an LLM , it's great. Yeah. It's perfect. It it does that function. It does that feature extremely well. The problem is when people oversell it is when they start saying, Oh, it's going to change everything. That you're going to have one super incredible model that's suddenly going to take over the world and it will do everything. That's overselling it. But if you limit the scope and you say, I want to make the best security scanner possible, then yes, you can do some amazing things with an LLM. I just read an essay in and Deeds ite uh saying that we need to redefine what it means to progress and and and and progress and progression uh as happened in the industrial revolution. And one interesting little s ide it made was and and I don't know this I haven't thought this through yet, but basically saying that every technology before was given a specific task . Yes. And uh and that's the I mean I could I could argue that the preimpress was it was because it would print just printed. It wasn't because it could print anything. So it's a general machine too. But in this case, uh and this is part of uh Jan Laclun's argument is that is that he thinks that uh models will be specific to a task and you can turn them on and turn them off whether they got to that task, that's why they're not gonna be dangerous, but LLMs are dangerous because they're not given a task . They're g they're given this this role to mimic us and then God knows what happens . Yeah. And you have to remember that during the Industrial Revolution, the the reason why there was so much societal change And actually I'll I'll I'll use Jeff's uh um example. The printing press caused so much societal change that people did not expect in my world because it made it possible for everyone to have a copy of the Bible. Right. That th those were texts that were previously restricted to to priests, bishops and higher. And suddenly everyone could have a copy. It cost a few wars as I remember. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it it it it it up it caused an upheaval in society because you suddenly took something that was scarce and you made it free, essentially free. Well the case of Luther wasn't because it was it was thick things, it was because he made little eight page pamphlets. Yeah. But it was also translating into the vernacular. It was it was his choice to use it to speak in German, to write in German. Right. Most of Latin. That was a specific purpose, a specific thing that they did with the printing press that caused that change. You can do the same thing with an LLM, but again, you have to have that specific purpose. Right now you've got so many companies that are just rushing to build the all in one LLM, the all in one model. That's I mean, it sounds good. It's gonna sell stock but that's not really where you're gonna find its utility. And you're gonna get you're gonna get quicker to your goal if you have specify that goal than if you try to make the general everything machine correct. To that point the Financial Times today uh leaked OpenAI plot's biggest chat GPT overhaul since launch. This is part of, of course, their race to IPO as well. They let me read the text from the Financial Times. This is Christina Critdall writing. The company intends to transform the chat GPT chatbot into a super app we want to call it like X that combines coding tools and AI agents, adding products that executives believe will generate more revenue . Uh and this is going to be given to normal people, right? The change which will give greater prominence and resources to Codex, their coding product, reflect a growing conviction within the company that the future of AI lies not in chatbots that answer questions, but in agents that perform tasks for users. One they quote one senior open AI employer's uh employee saying chat is dead . You have to rename chat GPT. Oh no. Have to see. But this uh this fascination with a one super thing. Actually, we have had engineers talk about this before, so what I'm talking about right now is nothing original to me. Uh, origin ally when people were talking about having machinery in the home, everybody was thinking, you know what? We'll have one giant electric motor in your house, and through a series of pulleys and gears, you could direct that mechanical and energy to other tasks, but it would all run off this singular pulley. And that's not actually the case. If the classic engineering exercise these days is go and count the number of electric motors in your house. And in the earliest days of the industrial revolution, that's exactly what they did, right? They would have then they But then they broke it apart. But Harper and Brothers uh burned down in the eighteen fifties. They then rebuilt with a huge uh steam engine in a courtyard where it wouldn't burn everything this time. And and they and they went up through I think eight floors and ran everything. It ran the elevator, it ran the printing presses, it ran the the the presses that got the impact out of the paper. It ran the saw to put the holes in to do binding. So what happened that they decided to decouple and and electricity. Electricity. The line otypes were at first run on that kind of pulley steam power. And when the fact that electricity came along they could put them on their own uh electric motors, that made the huge change. Then you could put them anywhere. Yeah. Because the electrical energy it's very easy to wire up a place . It's a lot harder to pulley up and gear up a place. So I'm gonna submit something that I've been thinking about. I w uh I sent Jeff and uh Steve Gibson and other people, um uh Jeffrey Hinton's talk. Oh boy, here we go. From well he said something interesting that got me really thinking. He said that uh analog like our brains is good because it's low energy. It doesn't have to be super accurate. It makes up for accuracy with parallelism. Massive, our brains are massively parallel. But if you can apply a lot of power digital , you need to apply a lot of power to make it the distinction between ones and zeros so clear that there's never any ambiguity. That's what analog can't do very well. So once you can apply massive power to this, uh, then digital has some real advantages. For instance, he said all of our neurons are different. He said, give it up, Ray Kurzwell. You're able to copy your brain into a digital machine because we are so analog that each machine is different. He says he he Hinton says I I thought we we could build an analog transformer. I tried, but we couldn't. He says the advantage digital has is they're all the same. And so all the learning from one AI can be transferred to another and another and another. One transformer can move to another and another And he said that makes software immortal. It makes it f and fa and infinitely faster. And I now this is what I was thinking in the middle of the night last night, as an analog to that. Many people prefer records, vinyl records. You know, sound is really just variations in air pressure. You know , that our ears can pick up with our eardrums and translate into something that our brain then can understand. It's all analog, all from beginning to end. My voice going to your ears into your brain, it's all analog . But we figured out, thanks to Shannon's law, that you can slice up those waveforms, and if you slice them infinitely or sufficiently, not infinitely, but it's sufficiently thinly , those waveforms can be represented digitally and be indistinguishable from the waveforms. And that actually transformed how we listen to music, how we how we share music. I mean when the MP3 came out, it completely disrupted the music industry, the audio industry. I'm speaking to you digitally now. There's no way we could be doing what we're doing if I had to shout . And your ears had to perceive it. F Father Roberts in Rome, but in in almost because of bit because bits can move at light speed, unlike sound, and they can move infinitely far thanks to immense amounts of power being applied to them. Uh, we can do things that we couldn't do with analog. And I wonder if that's a a similar anal anal thatogy holds when it comes to analog brains versus digital AI. Hinton is another one of the doomers who says we're gonna have problems because it's going to be so much faster. Hidden takes a bunch of leaps off a bunch of high dive. Well one thing he says, which I don't know if I mean how we even know this is that they're going they're going to that if this let's assume you could get really super smart AIs, would they really want to I'm asking Kurzweil that he says, no, no, they're we're their parents. He jumps off. He he first says that that they clearly understand. Well, without understanding the word understanding. Oh yeah. And and just because they they they uh use various uh characteristics of words, features of words, and can put them together into an interlocking puzzle, that doesn't mean understanding. Then he says, but my argument is if they could understand , they would also understand truth versus falsity. And it'd be easy to make them stop hallucinating. But they don't. But then he says that they have a motive, which presumes consciousness, to lie to him, which again it presumes that they know what truth and falsity is. And if they do know, then why can't we fix this before? So um he then makes all those leaps to say, well of course it's conscious. Of course it is. And I don't I don't go there. Well here's the problem. We don't know what conscious means. We don't even know what understanding means. Right. We don't have a good definition of either. His contention, I would say this is similar to this is why I mentioned the CDs versus vinyl , is if you can't tell the difference , then what does it matter, right? Uh the music coming out of a CD sounds exactly like an analog recording. It's not. It's sampled. It's digital. It's ones and zeros. Right. Yeah, because basically Shannon's law says you need to sample at twice the m at twice the frequency. And the upper end of hear human hearing is twenty kilohertz. Exactly. So if you get forty one point one, you should be able to capture everything that we can debate that humans here. I think it's a similar debate because there are people who say, No, no, I can feel the presentation. I can feel the emotion in vinyl music.. Okay, okay I'm I gotta chime in here, Leo. But because uh with a good enough sound system you can tell. With a good enough sound system you can tell. Even you can tell. Oh no. Uh well here we go. So uh okay, I I'm not gonna debate that. I I completely accept that you can hear it. I would say it's very similar in the sense that um there are those of us who say, well, if you can't tell know, uh Hinton's entire thesis is based on the idea that a transformer is creating these re you know, these neural networks creating relationships between concepts and words that are effectively what we do as humans, that is understanding. And he says, But we as humans don't want to accept the fact that we we we like to think that what we're doing is special, whether it's listening to analog music or whether it's thinking. And he says it and this is my contention. I don't know what understanding is. I don't know what consciousness is. We don't have a good definition for that. My only contention is if you can't tell the difference, it's fair to move forward as if it is learning and But the issue, Leo, I've been thinking about this, because you do make this contention, and what we present when we speak to each other is but a small part of what we are. It is it is is it is it is a reduction to speech. And there's so much more going on to even Do you think in words? Yeah, but I I I I would love to know what what it was like what an animal was like what it was like before I don't think animals think. And I don't think animals know that tomorrow is another thing. I think a lot of what they're doing is instinctive, not not uh Can I provide a counterpoint? Yes. So so you'd be the right guy to do this because uh of your faith. I I understand the the uh view of the transformer model. So if you can dig itally sample something in the real world, you can basically represent it in 100% accuracy as many times as you want. I would argue that that is precisely the reason why you can't have a transformer model with true consciousness. True consciousness is not just the representation and the recre ation of facts and information. True consciousness also allows for um the thought process itself to we'll call it mutate. The the the wonderful thing about the analog world and the analog brain is that you get lateral movements between different trains of thought that allow for the creation of something new. Thank you. The first time that you have a digital representation of a consciousness will look exactly the same as the billionth time that you have a digital representation of that consciousness. Take an analog brain and the billionth time it will look nothing like the first time because of all those little variances. And and I would argue it's in those variances that you find the unique nature of human conscience. I would say that that is true if you say this is a s if you say it's static. But once you take that transformer and then you apply power to it, it is no longer the same. It's no longer well that's because randomness is built in. But that's the same. Well, whatever, for whatever reason , you're comparing a non-ac tive transformer , right? And I think it's true if you froze the human brain in that moment, you could probably duplicate it. So I I don't think it's a fair comparison. It's a what you you're talking about . No power has been applied to it. I see these I my my mind, I and I know this is a inaccurate representation, it's almost like to me an infinite number of wind chimes that are interacting not just with the ones next to them, but the ones all over the space. And when one is moved, they get they fire. And suddenly that is an alive I could say that yeah maybe maybe constellation you know what Leo you are opening yourself up to being accused of being a protein chauvinist Larry Page called uh Elon Musk a speciesist, like a racist, because Larry Page and this is what why Elon wanted to start open AI, he's tells this story. They were at a Allen and Co. conference or something like that, maybe a maybe a TED conference. And they were sitting around the fire and Elon was saying we gotta stop these AIs because uh they're gonna become, you know, dangerous to us as humans. And Larry said, Well what you're being speci ist, speciesist. Uh this is the next step in the evolution of consciousness is these AIs. Uh yes, they'll replace us, or maybe they'll replace us, or maybe we'll stick around just like monkeys and dogs stuck around. It's time to move on. And and Elon was so horrified by this, he said, I'm starting open AI . And they've by the way, they say he says I've we've I've never spoken to Larry Page since he was inf infuri ous over this. I'm beginning to form a theory, actually, that uh it's troublemakers from Toronto who are who are causing added problems. Uh for instance, yeah, Marshall McLuhan, but also, you know, Hinton, he's in Toronto. Right. And also Chris Olah, co-founder of Anthropic. I know. Who's in Rome, right? He was just over here. Just over in Rome and I know him from Hack Lab TO. We were both members of this hackerspace in Kensington Market. Wasn't Faye Fe e also from Toronto? Was isn't there a whole this a lot of this stuff came out of McCoan went to work with um Hinton in Toronto. Yeah as his keeper. Yeah. Yeah yeah Ily yeah Ily Ilyas from yeah Ilyas from Toronto and you know if we want to stretch it out a little further into science fiction and uh uh and uh just writing in general. Corey is from Toronto. In fact, that's where I uh that's where I know I'm from Cory Doctoro. Uh but uh old Chris Ola has talked about anthropic developing emotion vectors. Actually, you should do a search for that. And I was just going, re really? Emotion vectors? And it's kind of interesting also that he did come to the Vatican, because I remember him from back then. He had, I would put it kindly, a deeply uh uh he was i deeply skeptical of the value of religion, to put it very kindly. Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember. So uh yeah, but the fact that he would come to the Vatican and, you know, uh stand beside the Pope for the encyclical . Others like like um Tim Nick Ebbrew and Margaret Mitchell were very mad that he was there, which is very interesting. You at the same time you have anthropic and I think you maybe Google, I saw a story a week ago, hiring uh uh uh ethicists and and philosophers to worry about the feelings of the machine. That's what Angela Askell has also been doing. She was the author of the soul document. Aaron Powell So not not to put ascurs aspersions on Hinton because he's brilliant and and he's done phenomenal work. But I I I did look up asked I asked um Gemini to talk give me the list of people who've been accused of nobel nobel itis . There's a fair number Carrie Mullis in chemistry, Luc Montagnier in Physiology, Linus Pauling. I was gonna say Linus Paul. William Shockley. Philip Lennard , yeah. The prize kind of goes to their head and they think that they can't it's funny, in this talk that I sent you has a very fun ny humble brag about how gee, I won I won the Nobel Prize for Physics, he managed to get that in. I should probably be a better physicist. Which was pretty funny, but at the same time did get the you know, manage to humble brag about winning the Nobel Prize. I would too. Yeah, yeah. I think he's establishing his bona fides. I don't know. Yeah. Uh uh, you know, I think credit to the Holy Father, credit to Pope Leo for bringing in both sides. Uh I I'm sure Emily Bender and Margaret Michel and a conversation. Timot Gebrew would like AI to have no voice Well I think it may make good on what he said about how to have a conversation. Yeah. I I would not mess with a Pope from Chicago . I've seen the untouchables because you know he puts one of your boys , you put one of his boys in hell. This is a conversation that uh Jeff and I have on intelligent machines. We had it last week with you, Father Robert, uh a lot. And um and uh I don't know if it's a conversation we'll have or have a conclusion. But uh I am I am actually fairly convinced that whatever it is AI is doing, it's doing it pretty darn well at this point. Uh it's doing it as at least as well as humans. Humans lie, humans hallucinate, humans fail all the time. I don't like to ask for directions when I'm driving because half the time I'm gonna get the wrong direction. Oh yeah. Uh if you have a male ego, that's why I'm much more likely to get good directions from Google than I am from a human. So I don't now I do think there's a distinction between digital and analog . I don't think necessarily digital wins. I don't mean to imply that. I'm a human , I'm a I'm fully analog, but I'm also fully aware of our failings . And uh you know, I'm not convinced that we should have primacy in a in a world where something could be better . Whoa. That's a big statement. That's giving up uh control and perhaps even agency. I think that a lot of the argument against this is a faith-based argument. I'm not against faith-based arguments. The core of the encyclical, but also part of it is a recognition that it is a tool. You cannot give up private primacy to a tool. If you give up primacy to a tool, you get something like a school being bombed because an AI tool re uh recognized a school as a a military target. And nothing happened because they've used that tool to absolve themselves of any responsibility. That's a problem . Yeah. That that's not a technical issue. No. That is a human problem. But that it's a human problem because they tried to use that idea of absolving themselves by using the primacy of the tool in order to make their target package. That is very risky, I agree. It has somewhat somewhat or even a nuclear bomb. It it's a fa i if it still is a fancier tool. And the other but I I I I'm of the firm belief, yeah, you give primacy to a tool, if you played video games in the eighty, what you eighties uh this is Robotron. This is Robotron 2084. This is the silence. This is we do not want that. That is one argument people use for why AIs are dangerous, is because they've ingested all of that dystopian science fiction . And that's why they're going to act badly because they it's expected of them. There is a dystopian sci-fi, however, that for the past almost 40 years has been discussing this exact topic with this level of gr gran uhular ity. It's called Ghost in the Shell. It's from the late eighties. It's exactly this topic this idea of digitizing consciousness. What does it mean for a transhuman future? Right. And Star Trek starts some of that. Although they've never really addressed if Captain Kirk beams down to a planet, is that the same Captain Kirk? It is not. It can 't. It's not possible. It's not. It's a Captain Kirk. We will need Captain Kirk's eventually because what Captain Kirk was really good at was convincing computers to shut themselves off or commit to it. Like he was best at that point. It was the tone of voice. So tell me which ghost of the machine should I consume? Should I consume the manga comic, the TV show, the movie original anime? Original anime. Watch the original anime and then watch Ghost in the Shell, the uh the uh uh SAC, and then the second gig. So there's two T V series. Watch the original and those two series kind of ignore everything else. Everything else is a constra There are, but it you uh but the the movies and the series are actually beautifully done. So Okay. They invented new colors for that for that movie. They did. Move . All right, we gotta take a break. Good conversation. No conclusion, but they'll never will be to this, I think. Uh it's an but it's also an important conversation. And I think the the Pope did a very good job of uh of taking it it. Well it's it's's excellent. And by the way, I just want to put it out there here again. I'm so delighted that he directly called out the transhumanists and the posthumanists. Otherwise it was kind of for the ages, but that was just kind of like, oh come on guys, no, stop. Just stop. Stop it. But don't watch the live action ghost in the show, right? That's it. Do not watch that. No. It's not great, honestly. I would love to I would love to invite Scarlett Johansson to join the club of Asians, but unfortunately no. Uh Al Alex was telling me that in the uh club as well. A live action moving not that's so good. Um all right we're gonna take a little break. Uh LMJ in uh in our uh YouTube chat says I don't Leo doesn't have any worries because it'd be long gone by the time AI goes heywire. I'm not convinced I think it could happen soon . I don't think we're that what do you think's the timeline? Really? Seriously. Leo, you're not buying twenty. You still buy green bananas, right? You're you're fine. Oh no, no, no. Oh no. That's my joke. I'm so old I don't buy green bananas anymore. I don't have time for them to ripe. And for and forget avocados, man. I only buy mushy avocados. Joey DeVilla is here. Congratulations on the new job at NetFoundry.io where he is developer advocate. We have a lot of developer advocates on this show. I think developer advocates are good people. You're a developer advocate. Well, you know what I think is that they can talk English and computer at the same time. Yeah, we're basically just ENTP programmers. That's basically what it boils down to. Yeah. I'd love talking about it. That's exactly what we need for a show like this. I mean, I'm developer advocate as well. It's just a different kind of development. Developer evangelist at that at this point. Alice there. SJ. It's great to have you, the digital Jesuit. And of course, uh, you gotta have one professor on every show. Uh unlike even if it's he's a fake one, like I unlike the National Science Council, which has what was it, the line? Has fewer professors than members of the all in podcast. Mr. Jeff Javis, so good to have you. Good to be. I can't wait to well I've read Hot Type, but I can't wait till it comes out and everybody else can be Joey. Is that the biggest glass of iced coffee I've ever seen in my life? This is Coke Zero. The breakfast of champions. Okay . Looks good. I happen to have a ZDTV mug for actual coffee. But uh very nice. Yeah. I thought if I drop this, it's gonna be the end of the line on this one. This is wow. This is history. That's a collector's item now. I know. It's so old it doesn't even say tech TV. It says ZD TV. Oh wow. Wow. Yeah. So don't fall. Don't let the kitty cat push that off the table. I I have my G4 mug somewhere. I mean uh that I don't care about and I like Jeff's Twithat as well. It's good to have all of you on the show. Our show today brought to you by ExpressVPN. We're glad to have them as a sponsor, and of course I'm glad to have them in my toolkit. Uh going online without ExpressVPN would be like, I don't know, leaving your laptop unattended at the coffee shop while you run to the bathroom. Okay. Ninety percent of the time you're you're probably fine. But you know, what if one day you come out of the bathroom and your laptop is gone? ExpressVPN is to protect you for that one in ten times. 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That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-VPN.com slash twit to find out how you can get up to four extra months. pressVPN .com/slash twin. We thank them for their support of this week in tech . Uh Computex. Should I? Okay, we gotta we got Apple's coming up tomorrow. So let me talk about the past and then we'll talk about the future. Uh Computex, which is the big computer show, it's kind of the last PC show in a way, right? In Taiwan. The big story there, I think, was Jensen Wong's keynote. They announced a whole bunch of stuff, including, I think, for our audience, the one that might be the most interesting is the RTX Spar k, a consumer laptop chip, which will be made by MediaTech, which I think is kind of interesting, and built into laptops from all of the biggies. Actually, uh Dell, I think said they're gonna do it. Uh HP HP. Yeah. Uh you're gonna see them everywhere. And and even NVIDIA is gonna make them. The spark is but NVIDIA is gonna make an NVIDIA branded laptop? I th that's the impression I got. I might be wrong on that. That's a change. Maybe that maybe okay, maybe I over maybe I over over interpreted what they said. They certainly have the OE Ms anyway. Including by the way, Microsoft. Now nobody's gonna have that laptop till this fall, and nobody said how much it would cost. But I think you can assume it's gonna cost a pretty penny. Yeah the Spark is effectively the same GB 10 chip that's in the DGX Spark, which a number of our uh club members have. Uh in fact, we have one club member, we had our AI user group on Friday, Juan, who has two ? Jeez. He's double sparked. Beat that. K worth of uh compute. They're that's what he said. Almost ten thousand dollars. Uh they're five thousand each. Um the flag. Well, the idea, and I think this is really interesting. I feel that's what I want to talk to you all about is a laptop that can run local AI. You don't you don't need you could use a MacBook Neo if you're gonna be using Claude or you're gonna be using GPT uh or deep seek or any of these cloud based AIs. They do all the work on their in the data centers. That's why they're building these big data centers. But But if you want to save money, uh you might want to run it locally. I run some local models. Right now, uh I don't have enough hardware to run anything competent. Certainly, even if you had double sparks, I don't know if you could run anything as good as say Opus 4.8 or certainly Mythos. If I recall correctly from my former life, actually having done some developer relations work for a D G X Spark light uh variant computer for H P. In fact that's uh it was Jeff who recommended me to appear on um Intelligence. Yeah, you were on the show talking about that. Yeahah.. Ye Uh the consumption of that was definitely sub 100 watts, like less than a nice bright light bulb for the DGX Spark ZGX nano. That that very but okay.. Yeah So no, that's good, but I'm just wondering, can it r will it run anthropic like performance? I mean what model are you gonna run on that? You'll run I would say you you know what it runs fairly well uh is uh Quen uh the thirty two yeah Quen three on my yeah I'm running that on my framework desktop with 1200 and I'm running that on my uh I'm running that on an M five Mac. And is it as good? No, it's not as good as you're not gonna say it's opus quality. It's quite good though. Like it it is good enough. It is good enough for a lot of purp uh uh uh for for a lot of work. Uh it it's fantastic work, I think so. You're right. Not for fantastic for coding. Yeah, it's fantastic for coding. Uh it will answer some it it will answer a lot of questions re asonably well and I have been uh I have been kind of tooling around with uh just just working with it and working with uh actually work working with NetFoundries Gateway where I can actually switch between LLMs and say look you know what for this job I want to use this particular LLM for that one I want to use my own I want to use my own local LLM. So there's a NetFoundry thing called LLM Gateway that does that and I've been playing around with it and it works it it works rather well and of course the nice thing is it's it's i it's local. I have complete control over it. I know I'm not giving away any secrets. And actually uh the deep seek, when you run it locally, will actually tell you what happened in Channel Square in nineteen eighty nine. Yes. Actually I run it uh from Deep Seeks uh servers and it tells me what happened. Yeah and we tested that. Yeah. So I don't know I did see a story that somebody said, no, it's now been nerfed, but I just tried it this morning and it sure knew what happened in TNMN Square. And that was running off of their servers, not my own server. Well here's the other architecture I wonder about. You saw the story about um Pulti homes and span and NVIDIA. I I put it in the rundown. Uh we'll build mini data centers in suburban backyards. So everybody's then will you sell your data to your your capability? And and the data center becomes distributed across suburbs. See, I think that there's gonna be more and more interest in fully local models just for privacy, right? Yes. Although this is Apple's pitch is well, you can trust us. So major home builder to test placing mini, you know, data centers in suburban backyards . That is crazy. Isn't it? Mm-hmm. It's only Pulti at at first. Um So the idea is it's almost I mean it's like solar, right? If everybody ran solar panels on their roof and sold their power back to the power company , they wouldn't need to build all these power plants, which is why our local power company, Pacific Gas and Electric, won't let us ru create more capacity than we use. They don't want us competing with them because it turns out their business They say they can install 8,000 of these units six times faster at five times lower cost than a 100 megawatt data center. Now here's the big issue to me. The real issue with data centers is interconnects. One of the reasons they build these hundred gigawatt data centers is it's all on the same premises and their interconnects are so fast. Yeah. If you've got one in every backyard, how fast can the interconnec connecting? Well, for certain tasks , no, but I mean so the certain tasks that you'd be able to run on mini data centers that are interconnected via standard residential network infrastructure. Yeah, let's say it's gigas. There's basically no advantage over having a AI chip from a a Snapdragon X or one of NVIDIA's new chips in your laptop. It would be the same performance because that that bottleneck it it doesn't allow you to use the full potential of either your your mini data center or the mini data centers of your neighbors. Right. It that's just basic infrastructure. Uh bandwidth throughput is a big part of performance on these things. Uh it's not just the GPUs. It's not just the Well yeah when when you watch Jason Wong's keynotes about the data centers, it's it's all So I'm not convinced this might be more a a mazing. But my but my question is, does everybody have it's like we used to talk about you you you don't carry a phone, you have a blob that that's on you. Right. Because every home in the future, besides having fiber to the home, doesn't have AI in the home in the sense of a of a of a powerful smart box. Well obviously Jensen Wong thinks people are gonna want these laptops, right? I I think it doesn't make a lot of sense. I think a a NAS or a a server, a loc a h a home server makes sense. This is what I'm saying, right. This is what I've always wanted to do, but not but yeah, and so maybe I need a data center in the backyard for my home server. I hope not, but maybe. Um I can't imagine the climate impact of uh a thousand home servers in the backyard. But anyway. Uh but you know what? Aspiring criminals, this is your chance to put another bit is to get a whole bunch of Bitcoin miners on the biggest. That's a good point. That's a good point. In fact, you know, i if it wasn't enough to make money in Bitcoin to get this to happen, I don't know if if there if there's gonna be enough impetus to get make this happen with AI. So Leo to Leo's point on the interconnects, uh let's say that they've got modern fiber and they're getting ten gigabit connections between micro data centers. That sounds like a lot until you realize that the NV seventy two infrastructure that NVIDIA is using for their Vera Rubin uh data centers, that's 1.6 petabytes. Right. Not gigabits. Not not petabits. It's it's so so astronomically larger than what you could do with networking. Well even the DJX uh DGX and RTX Spark are three hundred gigabits . So that would be three thousand gigabits per second. We're three thousand times faster than in a home to home uh internet. Even if you got 10 gigabit. Very few of us are going to be training our own models. We're gonna be using models created by others. So that that's the resource intensive part. Right. We're gonna be just fine using desktop. So if the frontier models are, as uh some people in our Discord are asserting, we don't know, but if there may be a trillion parameter uh mixture of experts models, that's significantly faster than that thirty -six billion parameter Quin three six you're running. Yeah, but then what pro uh but what problems are you presenting to your models? Like, I mean, i i is it, you know uh I I'm going on a trip to New York. What should I what should I do? Well in fact I asked Quen to give me a a a a product table on the RTX Spark and it and it did a very good job of that. So um it says deep seek now, but I was I was running Quinn when I was doing it. Oh okay. Um so you know, but this is just looking up stuff on the internet. Certainly Quinn is more than powerful enough uh to do that. I just if you're gonna spend ten thousand dollars on a double spark , that's many years of anthropic tokens. Maybe not the way people are spending tokens. You saw the Axios story that some company unnamed had spent half a trillion dollars on tokens. That's a that's token maxing, all right. Uh I hope I'm hey but Leo with those tokens they probably replaced half a million dollars worth of human salaries. So I mean, right? We're good? We're good. No. Half a trillion versus half a million that doesn't that does not pencil. Um and you still need humans, don't you, really, to even after the AI has generated all that code to deploy it, to check it, deploy it, keep maintain it. I feel like it's to ask for it in the first place, to spec it. Yeah. Until they have an LLM that generates prompts for itself. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So uh what do you think of Anthropic's urge for a global pause? I think it will be accepted as well as when Musk called for a global pop. And then immediately immediately started buying billions of dollars worth of AI chips. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, they yeah, they it's all Doomer crap. It's it's marketing. It's marketing. Yeah. It's I think Anthropic is trying to get ahead of the backlash. They're seeing the growing backlash against AI data centers and AI infrastructure, and they want to come down firmly on the side of no, no, we're one of the good guys. We we tried it all by stop. They just they just wouldn't so you know. Yeah, uh it's like Krusty the Clown. They kept driving dump trucks of money to my house. I'm not made of rival human intelligence. Um he says that it will no what he says is that it will match and exceed human intelligence, but in specific areas. Ah. Rather than what he what he fights against is number one is the general machine, the the everything machine. And number two , the machine that has no goal. His view is that you give it a goal. And then third, but think most importantly, what he argues, and I wrote a post about this um last week with my my idolizing of Jensen Wong and Jan Lakun trying to learn from them. And what what Lacun argues i as we know is world models saying that the the real life is is is infinitely more complex than language. Language is something you add on later. But if you can get the machine to figure out what um a ball is and focus on that ball, not on everything else, and then understand the impact of what's happening to it, and then he argues very strenuously to understand um that your actions have consequences and to predict what those consequences are is the only path to responsibility. Okay, but I feel like everything I do in my life revolves around language. If I if I can't articulate it , what do you what what do you what when you hold this back when you hold this pen and and and and you think about what's No, I think about it visually. But you don't think about it visually. Yeah. That's that's you don't. Yeah, I don't see it. Yeah, right. Or if you were to spec the classic problem is write the spec for the robot to wash your dishes. It's a very complex spectrate. Lacoon's argument is as same as one Jensen Wong's is the reason you need role models and digital twins is that only if they make up their own rules based on understanding constra constraints of nature and physics. They have to understand those constraints. And then within that, they can then be actors. And then you can add language onto that as a as an abstraction of what those actions are. Yes, he's not against that. And again, he will say as I will say, LLMs are amazing. They do great things. Nothing against LLMs, but they ain't gonna get you to where people are saying. Well, let's come from uh Taipei, Taiwan to uh San Francisco. The next day, Microsoft launched its build conference. And uh as uh is reported here by The Verge, the build keynote was almost all about AI. Were you surprised at the number of announcements they had? Uh yeah. It was kind of a a cascade, wasn't they they pep they piggybacked on Jensen Wong's announcements earlier saying they're gonna make a mini surface PC with this uh RTX Spark. They're gonna make a dev box as well as a laptop. They didn't say anything about price and given how much RAM DDR RAM costs DR5 RAM costs these days gonna come from uh we still have a helium shortage. We've got two places that make helium that are currently under wartime conditions. I mean we've got uh Helium is is a byproduct of natural gas. Yes. And uh the big helium source is uh from the Middle East, natural gas. Natural gas. And Ukraine. And Ukraine. Ukraine is the other pri and both are currently uh both are currently under fire. We may we have uh big natural gas reserves in the United States, but apparently we don't mine the helium out of it. We don't take the helium out of it. Yeah. I'm not sure why. I guess we're soon. And the problem is the annoying, the maddening thing is helium, atomic number two , is supposed to be the second most common element in the universe. It's just that Earth is a terrible bucket for helium because it's light enough that it achieves escape velocity. So it goes out into space. It just goes out into space. Like a helium balloon. Yeah. So why if if if the demand is never ending right now for chips, why did Broadcom have have bad uh results that resulted in a huge fall in their stock and the entire sector. NVIDIA everybody went down because of Broadcom. I don't understand there's no there's just the market is not rational. Well that's true. Yeah. We we are so beyond the the PE ratios right now. The market is basically fandom. Oh yeah, SpaceX is gonna make money, even though it it really shouldn't. It absolutely shouldn't. But should neither should Tesla. The Tesla's PE is so ridiculous that it should not be valued at what it is, but it is because people aren't using those metrics anymore. Tesla just watch fish TikTok videos Actually there was a big story in the Times today about it's just a matter of time before Chinese cars make it into the United States in some form or fashion. Apparently they're approaching the Trump administration saying, Well, if we built factories in the United States to build BYD vehicles, would it be okay then? And he's wide open to this. He says As long as you create jobs in the US, fine with me. Well, you can see traces of Geely in the new uh Volvo that people are talking about, the I think I can see 60. Well yeah the post ar is in fact a Chinese Volvo collaboration, yeah. Um, yeah. Uh actually Jammer B loves his uh X what what is it? X sixty? X XC60. He's very happy with it. Uh also Microsoft announced Project Solara in the we irdest way possible. It looks exactly like uh Amazon Echo. Let me make this go full screen. And in this, there's this weird liminal look to the video , everybody's face is in darkness. Um yeah. In fact, I think Microsoft was was really doubling down on the kids call it liminal uh the dream space. Yeah. And um so so this is a not an actual product from Microsoft, it's a experiment called Solara that will be in not just a Amazon Echo style device I hate concept cars. I want something I can buy now that's real . I hate them. This is this is uh basically uh see it's on uh it's on your ID badge. It's uh it's in an echo like device . Um really what they're saying is agentic AI will be ubiquitous. Yeah. But everybody's in shadow. Isn't that weird? It's creepy. That's that's the AI future. Well, because the people aren't important. Are we right exactly people? This is Leo's dream. This is my dream. Dream. There there we go. Like I like like somebody in the advertising department was you know do you miss Plato's Cave ? Oh, that's my favorite. Oh, I I use that in homilies all the time. Plato's Cave. Plato's C ave. Tell us the story of Plato's Cave. So uh imagine you and a group of people have spent your entire life in a cave, and you are chained facing the wall of the cave, and the and the entrance of the cave is behind you. So you have no idea what the outside world looks like or what it entails. However, you can see shadows. You can see shadows from things moving around outside. And from those shadows, you create a narrative with your fellow prisoners of what must be out there. One day you get released, you and you alone are unshackled, and you make your way out of the cave. And now you can actually see with your own eyes exactly what's happening out there. So you have now the truth, which is nowhere near what you the the narrative that you made up with your fellow cave dwellers when you were in the cave. Now imagine trying to go back into the cave and explain to everyone else that what we thought was happening outside wasn't actually the truth. How difficult would it be for you to explain to those people who still don't have that experience that their ideas, their thought processes were completely wrong. It's it's it's a fantastic thought experiment that can go in so many different ways, uh whether you're trying to teach people about the nature of of understanding or the nature of the transfer of information or the nature of human understanding. It's it's it's a lot of fun. And how does this apply to uh the the the faces in shadow every though that they were the plate yeah they were it they were the shadows they are the shadows on the walls of Plato's Cave. Like basically, yeah, I'm thinking the advertisers thinking: Do you miss Plato's Cave? And do you miss those creepy palm phone ads with the creepy ballerina who looked at you at the end? Oh, yeah. Do you remember the palm phone? Yeah. This is not their first time, is it? If this continues, I I I might actually go live in a cave. So we've got a couple in the backyard. Bring on the shadows. That's right. Microsoft uh also announced uh a uh agent, I guess, called Scout, which is confusing 'cause uh Google's is called Spark. Spark. Uh maybe they'll be friends, but two dogs. Yeah. Two little uh Jack Russell Terriers. Sounds like the sequel to Kill a Mockingbird. Yeah, I was about to say like Scout from Kill a Mockingbird. Mockingbird, oh yeah. Yeah. They announced seven new AI models. Seven. Seven. What? Tell them. Why not? Uh do have a uh reasoning model, which is uh 35 B , uh, with a teensy weensey. By the way, this is what I don't like about Quen is the context window. 128K context window. Tiny. That's too small. That's like my Osborne What it's yeah. That's kind of specialized, I guess. Did they at least name the seven models sleepy, dopey I want grumpy. Is there a grumpy model? Yeah. I have the actually my agent is the grumpy model, I think. Um lots more stuff. They have a hardware chip, the uh the Majorana, they announced their second generation Majorana, which is a quantum computing chip. It contains qubits . Ah yes . You want that I've got the one done in partnership with IBM? Uh I don't know. IBM is big into that quantum computing, isn't it? As is Google. Um yeah, as is Google . There is there seems to be a convergence with all these companies. They've all decided that we're gonna have some sort of piece of hardware, whether it's glasses, a pendant, a watch. Do you ever use your little deep seek thing? My uh Jeff had you get? Which one? The thing that Jeff had you get? The little Harper made him get that. Harper made him get that. Harper Harper made him get it. Oh, this thing. Oh yeah, I love it. So this you connect this to the Wi-Fi and then it connects to China. And then Has Steve yelled at you for this? No, no, no. Nobody's yelled at me. In fact, somebody wrote me a letter saying, What is the name of that? I said, I don't recommend it. They said, No, no, I want it. Um it's an ESP 32, so it's it's eminently programmable. I I might uh I might just make it into my my agent. Uh but for now you can ask deep sequel questions. I haven't asked about TNM and Square though, actually. That's a good question. I should try that. So uh is is this uh just groupthink? Is this just or is this all make a lot of sense and they're all on the right track? Are we gonna be all wearing little AI pendants and things? I mean, we already do, they're called our phones. Yeah, we carry those and my watch, I can talk to my watch and talks back . Sort of. And we know these tech companies aren't original anymore. They just copy each other already. No, no. I know. I know. All right, let's take a break. Uh, I'm gonna go just talk to my grumpy model for a little bit when we come back . Apple's big announcements tomorrow. We'll get a little uh crystal ball gazing with Father Robert Balis er, the digital Jesuit, where it is now mid night in uh the Vatican. That's a movie title. Start of the day for me. Midnight in the Vatican. That is such a good movie title. Ooh, I like it. That's Joey De Villa, our screenwriter, a developer advocate at NetFoundry.io , and Jeff Jarvis, who is unaffiliated. No, he is a host of intelligent machines. You also do AI, the AI Inside Podcast, uh with uh Jason Howell. It's a wonderful podcast. Thanks for the book. And the author of many great books, including the Gutenberg Parenthesis and the new one, coming out in August. Hot type, a hot book for the hottest month of the year up here in the Northern Hemisphere. Our show today brought to you by ZipRecruiter. You know, according to CNBC, nearly half of hiring managers say this is interesting. Something you might want to keep in mind if you're a job seeker. 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Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And now you can try it for free at zippercruiter.com slash twit. That's ziprecruder. com slash twit. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. We thank ZipRecruiter so much for supporting this week in tech. They've been with us a long time now. I think it must be almost 10 years. We love that. We love that. Uh tomorrow I'm gonna have to get up. Micah Sargent and I are gonna be covering Apple's W WDC World Worldwide Developers Conference keynote uh at ten a.m. Pacific , one PM Eastern, that's 1800 UTC. We will not be streaming it in our normal channels. Like right now, we're streaming on YouTube, Twitch, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kik. We do that with all of our uh live shows. We can't do that with keynotes. Well, but certainly with Apple keynotes. The last time we did that, they tried to kick get us kicked off of YouTube. So I don't want to get kicked off of YouTube. So we will be doing our usual coverage, but it will be club only. It'll be a private event. If you're not in the club, you might want to join it for tomorrow. Twit.tv slash club twit. It's a nice way to support uh independent podcasting. Uh I think this is going to be one of the most interesting WWDCs in years. Remember, two years ago, they foolishly pre-announced products they never shipped. They still haven't shipped. A year ago. They apologized . This year, well, it's gonna be a big question. Will they ship those Si ri features that they've been promising. In the intervening years, they've made a deal with Google, apparently paying them a billion dollars a month for Gemini. Is it a month or a year? No, it's a year. A billion dollars a year for access to Gemini. Now, though, the rumor is at first Apple said you'll be running the AI on either on your phone and if it can't run on your phone in our own specially designed private data cent ers in the backyard. Yeah. Well, now they're saying Google's data centers. It's gonna be Google's data centers. Which are which are actually XAI's data centers because Google's renting capacity from XA I. But Apple says, but don't worry, we're gonna encrypt everything. They won't know what you're doing. Yeah. I don't know if that if that's true, that's gonna really change the story a little bit. That you'll be running on Elon's data centers, really ? Which still doesn't put XAI into the green. So No, but they're making twenty million dollars a month. Oh no, wait a minute. That's wrong. billion dollars a month for service. Now Google is gonna be paying nine hundred million dollars a month for service. They're still gonna be losing at least a hundred million dollars a month and their bills are gonna go up so it's probably gonna be closer to four to five hundred million dollars a month. And this is why the S P five hundred said that anthropic open AI and SpaceX cannot be on their index for a year. We don't that's we don't want your uh your tarnish to rip off. It's starting to feel more like do you remember We Work? This feels like WeWork. Yeah. Yeah. For computers. Yeah . Uh well we'll we'll be very interested to see what Apple announces as far uh I think would it be so a couple of things to to mention about this. It'll be Tim Cook's last WWC DC keynote. He is uh retiring in September or actually being kicked upstairs to the board. Uh John Turnus will be taking over as CEO in September. His first keynote will be the iPhone announcement. There's some question whether we'll even see John Turnus on stage. I suspect we will. In fact, I bet yeah, Apple makes a video. They like to start these things with goofy video. Yeah. And and also can can we just say that Tim Cook deserves credit for what he's done since since uh jobs went away. I mean he really has done wonders for Apple. He's made Apple a four trillion dollar company. That ain't bad. Mm-hmm. Um some say, you know, on the momentum that Steve created , uh there have been a few things that are Tim Cook uh kind of signature uh uh products like the Siri that never was. I guess the the watch is still Steve and Johnny's, but it's Tim who recognized that the watch was going to be ultimately best used as a health device and really focused it on health. So we get some credit. Here's the question I have about Apple. Will they end up be being seen as a smarter one because they don't they didn't need to build a foundation model. It's commodity. I we can get models from anywhere. We can pay Google for it. It doesn't really matter. What we have is the relationship to our users . Are they really behind or are they saving a bucket load of money? Except so one of Apple's core tenants is they must own the the technologies that uh are most important for their services. So this kind of breaks that. This breaks it in a big way. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, that is Tim's signature achievement is the release of Apple Silicon, the move from Intel to Apple Chips. John Turnus, by the way, was the guy in charge of that. And I think that's his this is his reward for uh doing such a good job. But uh that that is something Apple did that was it's funny, turned out to be very good for AI, local AI. That's why they can't keep minis or studios in stock. You're running that you're running your McQueen model on a Mac Mini, right? Uh I'm running mine on actually uh M5 uh M5 Powerbook. Uh as soon as I got the uh I got a how uh at the job I have a hardware stipend . And as soon as the nice and uh so I bought the M5 and I bought a matching one for my wife because I told her, you know what? When the ship when the ship comes in, everybody rides. A rising tide floats all boats. So she has a we have his and hers 64 gig M5s. Nice. Nice. Those those MacBook Pros are very nice. Mm-hmm. Um and and it turns out that the uh uh machine language processing units in those are very good. And speaking of memory bandwidth, the memory bandwidth is is superb because it's unified memory. Yeah, it's ri it 's really good for that and it's it it's fantastic. I highly recommend it if you want to get into if you want to get yeah, if you want to get into software development and in fact, actually, uh my old laptop, an M one is now the sacrificial open claw machine. So I've got yeah. That's smart. Open claw, possibly Hermes. I'm also looking into Hermes. I love Hermes. That's my Okay. That's my agent of choice. Uh Hermes and I, I actually divorced Claudette. And uh yeah, I married Hermes. Oh , it's a fling. I call her Quicksilver. Divorce or annulment. Well, we never did consummate, so I guess it's an Okay. Okay, because that's that's what not consummating is one of the uh one of the uh excuses that you can use for an annulment. And it's the least embarrassing of the bunch. I think mental incompetence, Padre is is that still uh Yeah, does is there is there prima nocta in LLMs? I can't remember. Oh yeah. I uh the uh the right of the noble. Yes. I am the I am the noble one. They're just tools. I learned that from you, Joey. So uh I I don't really actually f care so much if Apple puts AI on the iPhone. I use the iPhone, but when I press the action button on the iPhone, it calls Quicksilver, calls my little Hermes. Yeah. Uh when I uh want to, I can do everything, you know, in uh anthropic and if I wanted to, if uh you know if I want to visit the old girlfriend, if I I've got all of the AI s on here, but look, this is little Hermes logo, the little yeah, that weird Alice in Wonderland logo. And I can actually uh talk with it and interact with it. Oh, ready for an update. Good. But what if you could do all of that offline, Leo? Well I can if I choose Quinn . Well, offline you mean not going to a frontier model, you mean locally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's still online because I'm obviously my phone is not running them a So I don't know if the agent the if the I mean Apple's gonna do Agenic probably with with Siri of some kind, they won't call it that. You're s is that what you're asking? If like Siri were smart enough to do all If Siri were smart enough and if you were carrying enough local processing that you maybe run a model completely offline. I mean I that's the idea. In my current job that would be very attractive. Yes, because uh you you've mentioned this before, but not on this show that uh the the uh the Catholic Church has its own models. They're purely private local models. And I've got a little uh it's it's not a G DX, but I've got an an Acer uh Veritron, which is using the Blackwell chip. Oh, yeah. So it does it's got a petaflop worth of performance, four terabytes uh of storage, twenty eight gigabytes of mem of store of memory. So it's pretty good. Wow. Now and are you running the Vatican's models on that? We are so we are we have developed our own models. So we're not using off the shelf models anymore because they've been specifically trained on our sources. And they're private. And they're private. Right. Completely private. And which means that we can use them in what we call internal forum cases. So when it's information that's very sensitive, we have the ability to summarize, to translate, uh to otherwise transform that information without it ever touching the internet, which is important because canonically we're not allowed to. What did it take to uh to build those ? A lot. Quite yeah. No. Trade secret. Yeah, a lot. Did you a lot? Did you train them from scratch? Yep. What? Oh. Complete scratch. This uh It was a lot harder than I thought it would be. And uh when you tr when you trained it, what was the content you trained it on? So we have several hundred years worth of texts that are specific to the Catholic Church. So everything has been digitized in our archives. And so we were able to run that and and say this it learned our language, it learned our culture, it learned Does it speak Latin? Does it speak Latin? That's my question. Uh it does speak Latin, actually, yes. Uh it that's one of the very first things that we had to train it to do. We had to train it to help translate some of the other sources. And so it's it's a completely closed model. It does not use any information from outside of the of the Catholic Church. And like the Washington Post's ask a ask the Washington Post AI. Our model has no problem saying I cannot answer that. That was extremely important for us because we that's how you stop it from hallucinating. Once it gets down to a level of probability that's no longer acceptable, it just says I don't have enough information to answer that question. It's known as the Ten Commandments. Exactly. We have got our foundation. We've got our architecture already. We just had to build around it. Ten commandments.md. It's really it's it's simple. Yeah. And the and and the beatitudes. Really? And the beatitudes are a little more than the and something about uh rich man and the eye of a needle. And you know it,'s so we've we've got the Old Testament LLM and then the New Testament LLM. The New Testament LM. They battle it out. Fire and brimstone LMO. Paging Dan Brown. You can you can now write you have enough material now to write the Da Vinci vibe code. Does it we don't yeah, we we don't have an anti ematic machine under Saint Peter's, but we may have a lot of compute power. But uh and it probably when you're coding it uses deep C , right? Never mind. Can it can you vibe code on it? Can it code? Or is it red C plus plus? That's not one of the functions that we built into it. Yeah, that's interesting. So yeah, you you can actually make it much simpler because there's a whole lot of stuff you don't care to do. Correct. Does it we're not trying to make it useful intelligence can it use MCP servers or is that not a good idea. Uh I mean he could, but I it would not be a favorable result. Uh you probably yeah. Right. You're thinking uh Leo, are you thinking about my too many cats MCP server? Yes. How many How many cats is a venial sin? How many cats is a mortal sin Oh, we could do tokens. Uh sins instead of tokens. Sale of indulgence indulgences are back, baby. Oh no . So w the We've used up our indulgence budget for the LLM this bit. Oh that's okay. It's uh it's one of those uh what is a year it's called a uh it's a uh uh we can party like it's fifteen ninety one. Yeah. There we go. You won't use the job. Jubilee year the the tokens are free. So all right. We're being we're gonna we're gonna all go to hell except for you . Um what so but what specific tasks is it is it mostly about the the hundred years worth of documents or more than a hundred. Right. So uh it needs to be able to quickly identify uh documents that are germane to any questions that get asked uh asked of it. It needs to be able to combine those with contemporary documents from the Translations. So it's very good at language translations. We have meetings here where we'll have nineteen, twenty different languages. This is really good at going back and forth with simultaneous real time translations. Oh, so it's uh used as that. Oh, that's really interesting. Did you use anything outside as a base to build on ? Uh uh not originally. Speech to text is is is challenging. So I would have to there are some very good libraries you could use for stuff like this safely. But again, w what we found is it's it's much easier and much more effective to isolate a particular need rather than building a model and then trying to figure out what it can do. Yeah. I think it's a model for what to do with with medicine, and physics and other areas. It's this is the part of the on the court argument. And there are some really amazing general intelligence. Right. There are some really amazing specialized AIs in all those fields. It's really it's really or you know, AlphaFold is a good example. I mean you wouldn't use Alpha Fold uh to write your thesis, but you might use it to fold proteins. I mean, yeah. It's these are very specialized. Did you find uh so that so were were you involved in the training of this thing? It sounds like you were. Uh yeah, a little bit. I know that it's a group. I know that you nobody takes big group. There's a lot of it. It's b aig group and no w no one person could take credit. Um but it what an interesting um What's the demand out there in any given parish church for saying this stuff's going on, I want to know about it, I want to do things with it. What what's the By the way, the Viratron is Darrenoki says is a DJ spark. It is. It's a the it's an NVIDIA GB ten. So it it's a blackw.ell. It's a blackwell It's G B ten. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I kinda wanted to get a Vero Ribbon, but those are not available. Not yet, right? So do you guys have a Babelfish, Padre ? Yes. That's what he's made, the babble fish. Yeah. Wow. Very interesting. It's speaking in tongues. Actually, the the most difficult language right now, you you probably would not guess this is Spanish. Really? Because of the accents. The accents, it's having so much trouble. You mean the spoken word accents like Cathelian versus Mexican Like Mexican versus Colombian versus Brazilian uh versus uh Bolivian versus Spanish Spanish. Yeah. Is it harder than Arabic? Yeah, no Arabic's actually pretty simple. Japanese is simple. Actually, Latin is a very simple. Latin is very rigorous. Latin is very the syllables are straightforward. The language is tricky for us anyway. But yeah, the syllables, Mandarin, uh Japanese is straightforward. Actually man written might be tough because of the tones. Right? Yeah. But they're still a written language. Computers can hear the tones much better than humans can. That's interesting. Much, much better. I can't hear them. But So we can distinguish ma and ma very ma very easily. Ma Did you say you don't have Tagalog yet, Padre ? Not Tagalog. But we are the most popular . It wasn't a demand. It wasn't a demand language. We don't have a lot of documents in Tagalog. Yeah. I'll get to it. Do you get native speakers in to train it? No, no. We don't need to do that. You got recordings. Can it make a podcast like uh Nope LM can? I think a Latin podcast would be so probably oh Oh actually that would be fun. That would be fun. I would take Yes. I oh a podcast translator. Take any podcast, input it, and it makes it in in uh Latin with with the voice of that speaker. Oh yeah. Well hey I can do that. Yeah. I mean yeah, that should be possible. Hey if Hey Jan can trans yeah. Ah Questo week ene in semene in I'm sorry. I hope it's late night in the Vatican and nobody's listening. We are talking twit with uh Father Robert Ballisair, Joey De Villa from uh NetFoundry and uh.io , and uh Jeff Jarvis will be back on Wednesday. Paris will be back, I hope. Yeah, we hope, we hope we. We hope hope. She's been on a deadline with consumer reports. Never ending deadline. Poor dear. We do have a very interesting interview and Joey, you'll be interested in this uh Jeffrey Connell Quinnell, who uh is the founder of Noose Research, the people who make Hermes will be coming back. We interviewed him way back when I loved him. I thought he was great, but that was back when they were doing their own models. They were trying to do ethical models, kind of like what you've been doing, Robert. Uh but what we didn't know at the time is that they had their own internal agent and then OpenClaw came out and they looked at each other and said, you know, ours is better. And they decided to release Hermes. And uh I have to say, I think I'll be very interested what you think, Joey, but I my experience is it's intriguing. Absolutely what you want. It's kind of a batteries included uh because it had comes with more than 90 skills uh already built in and then plugins available for all sorts of things. It's got its own memory system. Uh it's really nice. It's really an application. Yeah, anyway, Jeffrey Quinnell will be our guest on Wednesday. Uh listen because he's great. He's very interesting. Uh we will have more in just a bit on this week in tech. Our show today brought to you by I would show it to you, but it's busy working. Our Thinxed Canary. You know why? I plugged it back in ? Because we got we found out that uh Google sent us a message a couple of weeks ago saying, you know, there's uh somebody in your network in your Google Workspace. We found out that there had been an intruder who broke in in January . One of our employees got fished . Got our credentials. Fortunately, apparently they did very little. They looked at some emails. I think they have such a big stack of workspaces that they've broken into that they don't, you know, they go, Well, we'll get it we'll get to it. They're working through them one by one. And we just lucked out that we weren't on the top of the pile. We got rid of 'em, fortunately, and we've got new protection. And one of the things that we have is Thinx Canary. Why do we need a Thinxed Canario? It's that 1 21 days that passed between us getting cracked and us discovering that the hackers were in the network . That's more than four months that they fortunately they didn't do anything, but they could have done so much. The Thinks Canary is a honey pot that can be deployed in minutes. It can be almost anything you want. Uh it can be mine is a Synology NAS, I've mentioned this before, but it's very easy to change it to anything you want, including oh my gosh, any uhindow a Ws server, a Linux server, uh it could have uh lit up like a Christmas tree, every service on it turned on, or just pick some you know critical ones like RDP or file sharing that you know a bad guy cannot resist. It could be an SSH server. It can be a SCADA device. It could be anything. And your thinks canaries can also generate what they call canary tokens. Little files. They look like the real thing, like a Word document or a spreadsheet or Google Sheet. You can put them anywhere on your local drives, but I, you know, I now have a bunch of them on our Google Drive. They look like the real deal. I have a Google Sheet called payroll information, for instance. The thing is, bad guys cannot resist them. And the minute the bad guy tries to crack my fake internal SSH server or tries to open that sheet, that Google sheet that says payroll information, I will find out. I will know. I will, the Thinks Canary will immediately tell me there's someone in the network. You got a problem. No false alerts, just the alerts that matter in any way you want. Email, SMS, Slack, Teams, Webhooks. They have an API, so you can write your own syslog, of course, any way you want. The point is, when you get that notification, you know there's somebody in the network. Just choose a profile for your Thinks Canary device, register it with a hosted cons ole. It does the monitoring, it does the notifications. And then you can just sit back. You can relax. An attacker who has breached your network, a malicious insider, and other adversaries make themselves known by accessing your Thinks Canary. In fact, I was talking to the founder, one of the founders, Harun, uh, when I was at Rsec , uh and and he said they may even because hackers are by trade pretty suspicious. They assume everybody's as evil as they are. They may be looking at that going, hmm. Is that really payroll information? Is it but they but that's what they're there for. They cannot resist . They will open that file. They will attack that server. They just can't resist. That's what they're there to do. And the minute they do, you got them. Visit canary.tool slash twit. If you're a big operation, a bank, a casino back end, you might have hundreds. You certainly had uh would need one for every uh virtual network, every VLAN . Uh we have a handful. So let's give you a price example: $7,500 a year. You get five Things Canaries. You get your own hosted console, you get upgrades, you get support, you get maintenance. And actually, if you use the code TWIT in the how did you hear about us box, you're going to get 10% off the price. And not just for the first year, but for as long as you own your canaries. Now you can always return your Thinks Canary. There's no risk to this. They have a two-month, sixty-day money-back guarantee for a full refund. I have to tell you, they've been advertising with us for 10 years, practically since they started. And during all the years that we've partnered with Thinks Canary, that refund guarantee has not even once, never been claimed. Because, and I know this because we have 'em, once you get Thinks Canaries on your network, you're going to say, how did I live without it? Visit canary.tools slash twit. Enter the code TWIT in the how did you hear about us box ? And uh we thank them so much for their support. They've been with us a long time. We really appreciate it. Canary dot tools slash twit. You might say, well how Leo, how come you didn't know for under twenty one days? Because to do the ad I stupidly disconnected the things to canary and all the canary tokens call home when there's no home because I was holding it up. Remember in the ads, I used to hold it up, not anymore. So if you see a spreadsheet in the Google Drive named payroll information, you know you should open that. It's got great stuff in there. Canary.tool slash twit. Don't forget to use the offer code TWIT . Wish we'd had it. I stupidly disconnected it. It's my fault. I blame myself. All right. So um just to finish up with the uh uh WWDC keynote tomorrow we will be covering it. We d we don't expect new hardware. We think that that's all gonna come in the fall. Although there it's an interesting story uh coming out of the supply chain that uh Samsung has already ramped up manufacture of these uh OLED screens for the new laptop, the fourteen and sixteen inch. Are they touch screens perhaps? They're touch screens. And uh this will be on the M6 chip. The the theory being, if they're already make manufacturing them for August delivery, that it might well be a September announcement, which is earlier than we thought. Uh Apple's going to have a very big September. They're going to have that uh iPhone Ultra, the folding phone. We're starting to see demos of that. Apple will not talk about this tomorrow, so don't don't get your hopes up. They will be talking about iOS twenty seven, mac OS twenty seven, and all the other OS, watch TV , uh iPad OS twenty seven and uh undoubtedly spend much of the time talking about AI and Siri. Do you think there is a market among Apple fans for the touch screen? I mean I I love touching laptops, but yeah, I don't want the OLED. I I love my I have an OLED thinkpad and I bought it specifically for the OLED because uh I I those are my favorite screens, but I also specifically did not get the touch one because I'll let don them touch a laptop . Yesterday Lisa was showing me a spreadsheet. She was touching the cells. Don't touch it. And she's been using her iPad too much. But how good is how good is Mac OS on a touch interface anyway, because that's not a good thing . That's going to be interesting. So this is maybe this will be a hint tomorrow because they will talk about new features in Mac OS 27. And they're going to have to do something to address that. Similarly for a folding phone, they're going to have to do something to address it. An iOS 27. So we'll get some hints about what they're thinking, I think. It would require some interesting tweaks because Mac OS is specifically optimized for a mouse and cursor . That is rather precise. Fingers, you know, while nice and super convenient, especially my fingers larger. And you know, for the longest time, the argument for not use not having a touch screen Mac was what they called the gorilla arm effect. Right. And that is that it's just kind of hard to hold your arm up against the vertical screen for a long time. I I don't really want to maybe occasionally I'll run my finger. If I'm going through a long list of something and there's carpal tunnel that gets too, I'm really glad to have my my because you have a touch Chromebook. I've touched of course. Of course you do. Yes. I I find it healthier because I switch from keyboard and mouse to Well an Apple, of course, cells of the iPad, which is a touch screen. Is it going to be an iOS app? I would not be surprised if uh in a couple of weeks, as people start looking through all the the notes and actually decompiling the source from from some of the software packages, they're gonna find the hooks for the touch screen and though they'll be hints on exactly how it's That's usually how that stuff leaks out. But I am still most interested in what they do with AI. As an a I like AI. I know it's not fashionable on college campuses these days. But I like AI. So can we stop calling it Apple intelligence? Is that death now? Or are they still going to try to do that? You know, embracing this and putting AI in a billion pockets will make a big you know, dent. This will change people's point of view. May and maybe Apple knows people don't like it. I don't know. You know, there's definitely a a backlash, a tech lash. I I don't see, I think Apple's gonna come at it differently. Apple has never been about selling raw services or the promises of a technology. They sell features, specific things that you want to do. I think that's that's how they can can do their AI well, which is I'm not gonna sell you the tech. I'm gonna sell you a skill. I'm gonna I'm gonna s I'm gonna show you an example of of how AI works. I won't even call it AI, but you're gonna love it so much that you're gonna buy it. And that's they're good at that. They're very good at that. They're product. They make products. Yeah, yeah. The the iPod, for instance, they never talked about uh the size of the storage. They said a thousand songs. Because that's really what matters. My mom doesn't care about anything on her iPhone except for the fact that she can do FaceTime with her granddaughter. Right. That's it. And unfortunately the things they've shown in the past haven't really been too compelling, like Genmoji or the image playground. These are awful. And and people are still mocking the AI summaries that they get in their notifications. Will Siri still be a laughing stock? And that's the other thing. People think Siri is a moron and she is . I mean, if they're really doing a tight immigration uh uh integration with Gemini, Siri is going to smarten up by uh exponential level. I mean it's gonna be fantastic. The question is will they still call it Seer? Will will they call it Siri? Or does it you you think? They're stubborn. Oh yeah. That's theirs. That's their technology. That's their branding. They're they're not gonna admit it. Even though people hate it . Yeah. Apple doesn't think you hate anything that Apple does. I I think I think they should release their new pr AI product and call it the Newton. Just a flax and say, you know what, we're gonna take one of our biggest failures and make it something wonderful. There we go. I did have um uh Gemini last n ight. I Lisa and I were talking. I don't know if I can show this though. me Wait a minute. Let see. Uh and I asked uh Gemini if I should dye my hair. Uh Mm , I'm thinking probably not a good idea. Did it show you what you would like look like? Yeah, you want to see it? You wanna see what I would look like if I dyed my hair. Yeah, well so but the the point being that I didn't ask Siri . Uh I uh I immediately went to what I thought would be the best image. So I gave it this picture. Oh no Okay. So this is what I would look like . Oh no. It's probably not the best starting picture. Maybe that's the problem. And then I said, Well that's not good. So then I said, What if I died at black? And then the Lisa said, You look like Joe Pesci. So I thought, okay, what if you get how about give me Superman hair? Do I amuse you? Oh the spit curl. Oh very nice. Superman hair. The corn sweat look. Like it? Yeah. n then so what about a Beatles haircut? What if I had black hair with a Beatles haircut? Is that is that Ringo or is that John? The interesting thing is uh Gemini's really good at doing this, right? This is this is uh this is if what it would I look like with a toupee ? Apparently. I don't know. You know what that there's a certain Javier Bardem vibe I'm getting from that photo. We we were watching the Burrows and uh uh uh Molina is Alfred Molina's in it. Oh okay and he's got he's my age and he's got jet black hair. Oh right I said he dyed it, right? And and we couldn't decide. So I said, Well what if what would would I look better and then this is if I went blonde ? I don't think I'm gonna This is weird. This is weird, but I actually like that over the black. Yeah, I do too. I prefer that I'm not doing any of the other things.' Its got Conan O'Brien vibes. Yes . That's what it is. Yeah. Oh, I should ask for Conan's hair. Oh I will. There we go. Yeah. Let me give me so the point I'm making is not so much it's just really good at this kind of stuff. Yeah. But uh I know the toupee. By the way. Whoo, is that creepy? Have you watched that yet? No, not yet. It's on my list. And what is this? What is this? Apple TV Cape with Robert Mitch. De Niro, Cape Fear. And then Robert Mitchell first. Yeah. Okay, here I am, by the way. It did that fast. Oh wow. Here I am with Code O'Brien. Oh my God. I feel like I'm in a bus station right now. Leo the clown. Carrot top. Um what was I say? Oh yeah, there was a Robert Mitchum movie, uh Cape Fear, and then and then Scorsese remade it it's uh exactly as if it were a Hitchcock film. Uh and that was uh uh with De Niro and he was very good in that. Okay. Uh but this one is uh Javier uh Javier Bardem. Uh it's really really good. And Amy uh what's her name is in it? I'm su I'm such an old man now. I'm having a See, I only watch all of this w when I go back to the United States. So I go back for three times for about a month a time and my parents get all the streaming surfaces, so I just binge everything. Okay, but yeah, that's on Apple TV, the Cape Fear, this new one. Yes. And I think it's quite good. It's been Actually on Apple TV I really enjoyed um uh Plurribus. Oh yeah. I love that. Yes, so excellent. So we were watching the Burroughs, which is basically pleuribus. Yeah, yeah, no, I I've heard that's very good. It's like it's this I don't anyway, anyway, I don't care. Isn't wait, so I think my sister called Burroughs uh like Stranger Things for Old People. The Duffer Brothers and uh but but they're living in a place that's kinda like the villages, only it's called the borough. Oh the villages. It's like the village they all drive car golf carts. That's down the road from me. And the beautiful thing is they pump it's like an am the main street is like Main Street USA in Disney, except the music they pump is classic rock. Like they were like Quant Rock or Boat Rock? No, no, no. This was cla This was well actually Boat Rock fits in there, but when I was there, they were playing all of Boston's original album. So that's what's going on in the boroughs too. The the music is like Springsteen. Ah and uh because we're of that age now. Yeah we are. What happened? So if it's stranger things for old people, does that mean in Burroughs, Vecna is just like chlamydia or syphilis. Yeah, exactly. 'Cause remember the ve uh the villages has an unusual possibly the highest S C D rate is for a medium sized city. By far. Carpete these people are not going to be close. Seriously. Untreated STDs in the villages is the highest rate in the country. Yeah. Okay. Jeff and I are both well, we're not moving there, I guess. Yeah, yeah. And actually if you search if you search YouTube , there are a bunch of uh real estate videos promoting life in the villages. And yeah, it's well there's a famous documentary that's hysterical about the villages. No, so yeah, I I I have been there uh with my wife and aside from the staff, we were the youngest people at this seafood restaurant. Oh yeah by far and it wa yeah it was wild. My parents lived in Sun City Center where by law you cannot live there unless you're over fifty five. Yes. You have to be fifty-five minimum to buy property there. Oh, that's my parents live in a sun city uh near Bay. So yeah. And they and they have so many activities. There are a lot of clubs, and last I check heard there was a three year waiting list for the cheerleading squad. Yeah. They they they're cheerling football team? I have no idea, actually. And there's a lot of uh Mor ris dancing or clogging clubs. Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. They're clubs. Often seem to go hand in hand with arthritis. That's painful. No idea. Uh maybe uh maybe a lot of glucosamine . I don't know. Yeah. The golf carts, man. The golf carts. But uh a very weird city and very nice golf carts . These golf carts are nicer than my car. I was just one with air conditioning and some sense there. Oh, and the best part is the crime blotter in the villages. Um it's not teenagers. It's the thirty and forty something children of seniors who fail to launch. And it's all like kids petty petty theft, shoplifting and golf cart DUI . It is a fascinating community. Yes. We had a little bit of that in Vegas. I wanted to make a sequel to Seinfeld , which was the town where the parents lived. Del Boca Vista. Exactly. And it would be a sitcom because Burroughs is not a sitcom. Burroughs is is is nasty. Yeah. Spooky. It's an R. I think there's a sitcom. Uh yeah, in as my father always called it. God's called The Golden Girls. And it's been done. Yeah. True. True. True. But that you know what now that we're now that Boomers are uh our our little demographic bulge is uh getting there getting up there, uh I suppose it's time to bring back all those old folks shows. I guess that's what the star Jerry Seinfeld now. Yeah, it's trying out. Um let's take a break . I wasn't gonna do another 'cause we're old and we need a break. No. Well the only bad thing about these breaks is I don't get to go to the bathroom, but you do. So take advantage I'll just suffer. He's thinking depends right now, but you know , folks. You know what? If DePenz wants to buy ads, let me know. Just let me know. That would be the kiss of death, right? If you start doing DePenz ads on a podcast. Nobody's gonna ever listen to the show again. 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They have easy to use apps for all the tools you use: Salesforce, Dynamics, CRM, Shopify, Stripe, Mic rosoft Office, Google Docs. I can go on. Pretty much everything. Melissa Solutions and Services, of course, absolutely secure, GDPR and CCPA compliant. They're FedRAMP certified, ISO twenty seven O one certified, they meet SOC two and HIPAA high trust standards for information security management, because that's for them, job one. Get started today with one thousand records cleaned for free at Melissa.com slash twit. They are the data quality experts. Melissa. com slash twit. M-E-L-I-S-S-A dot com slash twit. We thank them so much for their uh support of this Embedded in Meta's smart glasses for face recognition designed to identify people via biometric data stored on users' phones. They have not enabled it, but it's there. It's in there. Wired found it. It was added uh to Meta's AI app over multiple up dates this year. The feature is internally called name tag . This is something Google is explicitly has chewed back with Google Glass, right? And uh but on the other hand, Ring and Google Nest doorbells now are starting to do this. You're starting to see this more and more. Are people getting used to the idea? Or do you think this is the reason that Meta's keeping a secret is this is a non-starter. I think people are getting used to the idea that it's possible. I don't think people are accepting of that idea. Uh uh I mean this is this is why Meta has been very cagey about it. This is why Meta in hearings has basically said we we we would be very careful about implementing this this technology into our products. Uh I I think most of us understand that there's cameras on us everywhere, no matter where we go, we've seen it. We see it on YouTube, we see it on the nightly news. But the idea that someone could be specifically looking at us, identifying us, finding information about us, just as we walk around outside, I don't think we're ready for that as a society. Not yet. Um I and yet it would be so useful. Yeah. No. Yeah. Because I have a terrible memory for faces. I never and it's embarrassing that I can't remember people's names. My my sister is a is a retired minister, and I can't imagine how you keep and and if you don't know the the name of parishioner, you are in duty, right? Yeah. I I I can't or or my father was a sales guy and you're in a you're in a conference. I I I'm horrible, horrible faces and names. Absolutely horrible. I could never know. I you know, give me twelve students and it takes me weeks to get 'em straight. if I get about ten years older, then I can just start calling everyone my daughter and my son. And then you go, yes, my child. That's my thing. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. That's my child. Yeah, we'll that's now a meme. If you say that, it's well yeah, that's the thing. My brother, yeah, my brother in the Filipino world, everyone you d you can't remember their name, they're Tita and Tito. Yeah, exactly. I bet every language . Because this has to be a universal issue, is not remembering people's names, right? Every language must have a default. Y'all. Everyone hears Everyone hears bust. Leo, we know it wouldn't boss. It wouldn't just be the names.. Yeah Benito's in Manila. He says everybody's boss. That's busing. It's like what we say here. Everyone's busing. Yeah. Yeah. What when I was a columnist in San Francisco and they actually had my face on news racks and and and and trucks and people come up to me and and I wouldn't know whether I was supposed to know them or not. Oh yeah. So that's what I I took on the horrible conceit of saying howdy . 'Cause howdy has no ellipsis. Okay, in San San Francisco howdy. You don't say howdy Leo. You just say howdy. Howdy. Yeah, howdy. You just say hi. There's a Leo. I've done that to Cardinals. And you've said howdy to a cardinal. No, I say, oh, it's so I haven't seen you in and then doing all those things. When was the last time we saw each other? Wait, were we working together? Yeah, you're trying to get context. This is the only reason that you should have a wife, Father Robert. I'm not saying any other reason. But but Lisa and I have it worked out. She will say, okay, I don't know the name, so just introduce yourself right away and then they will introduce themselves and then she will know their name. It's very handy if you have a partner of any kind. We have Cardinal, it's I'm Leah. What's your name, Cardinal? We had a Jesuit named Paul Locatelli, who was the president of Santa Clara University, and uh he had this incredible talent. He knew every single face of every single graduate and every single parent he had ever met. You could walk into a room cold and he knew your name, he knew who your child was, when they they attended the university and what they graduated in. It was it was ridiculous. I I never figured out how he did it, but I he just had one of those memories. Now the reason with glasses, I could do that, right? The reason this this meta thing is troubling is because we have all for years been tagging people with their names on Facebook. Right. And Google. Google photos. The same thing. And Meta apparently Wired's code review shows the name tag system is currently designed to pull face prints from Meta's ser vers and store them on your device. In your hands? On your face, not a big deal. In Palantir's hands? Mm-hmm. Yes. In in in ICE's hands? That's when it becomes Which is why for the last seven years I've been poisoning both Facebook and Google with photos tagged with my names that aren't me. You are a master of fuzzing. I yeah, it's just I was a free free time project. Yeah. Is it does ro uh does Robert Redford have your name? I mean who who how do you choose who to No no no I just I put my name and I just use different faces. Just different faces. Yeah. So the s the system doesn't know. If you look in Google for Robert Balliser, you'll get like a hundred and fifty different people. Yeah. They're yeah, they're they're they're quite different. I am afraid that um the ship has sailed for me. We want our faces to be matched, but maybe our habits we want to appear different, which is why which is why I run that program called Chaff, which just does Google searches on random dictionary words, and that's why I get chicken mating harness ads all the time. Oh, we talked about that last time you were Yeah exactly. Chicken mating harnesses. Yeah, exact ly. It thinks I'm in Vietnam. So if I do searches, it thinks I'm in Vietnam, it gives me local local uh uh answers for that. So uh somebody in our YouTube said if you talk about AI anymore, I'm leaving. Well, I'm sorry, but There's a show for you. Uh it's you know, it's in the news. For instance, this was an AI week. Yeah. The president uh this week signed an executive order seeking oversight of AI models. Nobody uh uh I don't know who thinks this is a good idea. Um they've softened it considerably. It's voluntary. It's voluntary, it's only for th 30 days before you release it. He scrapped the uh As if they would know what they're doing. Yeah. They fired all the experts who would be able to go through a model and tell you whether or not it's it's good for the common good. Okay. So if none of that were true and you trusted the government, this seems like exactly the kind of thing government should do before I mean you can't release a vaccine without the government's approval, right? But again it's a general machine. A vaccine is meant to do one thing and you can test its its effic acy and efficacy. Right. This is a machine. You don't know what everybody's going to ask the machine to do. What malign things are going to be required of it. And thus you cannot protect against all of them. This is why we're underwriters laboratory check ing electronics to make sure it's not good . Go on fire. Right. That's pretty straightforward. Is somebody gonna come along and ask this to create a uh uh you know, a new weapon? Uh they're gonna find a way way new to insult Leo Laporte? Uh you don't know. So there's no way uh the issue with this is there's no way to as uh ascertain the safety of a model. No. No. Not in thirty days. And the acyclical also made clear t to the idea to align it with human values is absurd too, at the at the higher level. It's not just the the guardrails, but also this notion that we're gonna make uh the virtuous machine is hubris. So you know when Trump came into office because he was, you know, funded to some degree by you know Mark uh Andreessen and and uh Brockman, the president of uh OpenAI, I think lots of bars. So it didn't have much force of law either. But he k went into office kind of with a stated we're goal of opening it up for AI because that's how we're gonna compete, that's how we're gonna make America great again, is is and beat the Chinese, is by no re no regulations limiting AI. So doing this is almost a complete reversal. Mm-hmm . And not the first one. Yet he's done it in such a way that it is so in a meaningless that it isn't isn't it it appeals to both sides. It has the appearance of regulation without actually doing anything. This actually goes hand in hand with the other bit of news concerning the administration, which is Trump is considering having the United States take ownership, part ownership in these AI companies. He wants he wants a bit of the pie. Interestingly, Sam Altman proposed this from a and and and and and um bernie sanders is talking about a version of this as well it's socialism yeah it is socialism nationalizing industry yeah that's but already the the government has a ten percent stake in Intel. Intel. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's a precedent uh for this. This was also uh a Trump This was actually it's interesting because it was the CHIPS Act that Biden passed, but the but the president said, Well, uh but for the money that we're gonna give you, we want a stake in uh Intel . Um when asked about this on Air Force One, Trump said there's something very interesting about it where it almost becomes a partnership with the American public. It's like you make them partners in this revolution. It would be a beautiful thing. It would make them rich. I don't know who them is. Um okay. Okay. That was the same thing that happened when he uh signed the executive order making insider trading not illegal. So yeah, making them rich is not necessarily a good thing. Who do we want to make rich here. Ye Yeah.ah. You know what they say? Evil is the root of all money. I like it. I like it. Uh the FCC, as you know, has banned all foreign routers. Now the cable lobby, the national Uableh C Television Association, wants a waiver because well, guess who installs most foreign-made routers in the home? The cable companies. That's where most people get their routers. Hell yeah. Do we even have a list of what routers would qualify? Because everything's made in China. Well, right now, the only one not made in China is the Starlink router, but remember that Netgear got a waiver. Okay. Hero got a waiver. Hero got a water. Oh, okay. So I'm good. Yeah, uh but the the way you get the waiver is you just say, yeah, we're gonna build these routers in the United States someday. Eventually. Eventually. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It might take us three years. Some day. But then that it will be done. At least the FCC said you can continue to get off software updates and firmware updates until January 2029. Shees. It's like f okay. Talk about a security problem. I mean, okay, look, I I understand the idea of securing the edge. Yes, let's let's secure all these routers, but even if you did that , all of the core is running on equipment made in China. Yeah. So are are you gonna do that? Everything's because that's a kind of important. When we were joking about this deep seek thing that I've you know, this Chinese device that I connected to my Wi Fi and uh connects to immediately to deep seek in China . He said, Leo, what of your stuff in your house is not made in China? Which of the Wi Fi things you've got connected? I have more than a hundred devices connected to my Wi Fi. Which of those is not made in China? I don't none of them as far as I know. They're all made in China. So but a router certainly is a is an attack surface. There's no doubt about that. Certify was 100% not made in China. Was do you remember Google IO one year they released that Sphere ? Oh yeah, I bought that. Yeah. That was 100% made in the United States and discontinued immediately because they could not make it cheap enough. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Did I buy that one or did I buy the camera that they put out that took pictures of you every five years? No, we they gave us the spheres. That's right. They gave you at a at Google I.O.. Yeah Uh Google actually uh is a little bit uh in a little bit of trouble uh in uh the UK . Uh Google has to change its AI overviews. The UK ordered them to put clearer links in AI search and to give UK publishers the option to opt out of those AI overviews. Or put that in other words, allow the publishers to commit suicide. Right. You don't want to be in search. You don't have to be in search. This is from the UK's competition and markets authority. It seems like we keep running that same story over and over again . News the news readers, the news aggregators, then the then the listing on Google search. I mean, yes, it sounds good. It's fun to fight Google, but that ultimately it's suicide. Yeah. Yeah. Google is and Google is improving the links on on these searches. I'm I'm finding the links are more prominent now. They're easier to go to. There's more of them. They didn't want to do it because they said it junks up the search results . No, what they really mean is because we can't game the search results as easily as we could before. You might you might actually click that and go out of a group and leave. You might leave. You might leave sites uh that opt out will not receive traffic or impressions from our generative AI features. Here's a cup of heavlock for you. Yeah, exactly. Because you know yeah, because as as always, piracy is not the real problem. It's obscurity. Yeah. Yes. Yes. By the way, Microsoft is doing the same thing with Bing. So there are stories from large publishers that end up on Microsoft's the MSN page. And if you search for that story, it will give you the MS N link. You actually have to go to Google to search for the story to actually get the original link. I don't know why no one's complaining about that. Because no one's using Bing. Yeah. I've I've got over a million points on Bing. I'm gonna spend them at some point. Well good news, you can keep your uh Microsoft Windows ten running for another year with just what is it, five thousand Bing points? You could you could keep that DGX Spark on Windows for a year months at this point though. Oh, that's true. Well yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Uh I think Windows ten might be the last Windows on my machines. I'm gonna migrate them to Linux. Seriously, I 'm not using 11. I'm with you. Yeah, I'm already I I have successfully migrated my in-laws over to Linux. And it is work it is working fine. Which version of Linux did you choose for them? U Yeah, it it looks like Windows, it feels like Windows, and then um the next thing is to put a Raspberry Pi that I can open Z D into to maintain their system. ZD is a zero trust, open source zero trust system from NetFoundry.io . Mm-hmm. So you're oh that's interesting. So I I would I can imagine you using a a pie hole or something. In fact, Father Robert taught us how to install a pie hole back in the day on know how that would limit their DNS uh searches and thereby limit them from going to bad. Yeah, and I can combine that. The reason I would use OpenZD is because uh if you port scan the network, that Raspberry Pi does not show up at all. The only way into that Raspberry Pi is by using a cryptographic ID because uh in NetFoundry we basically say uh you know, in God we trust everybody else gets zero trust. So it's got no open ports, it's behind the route it's behind the the router and it's a there is a net you communicate with a network overlay and rather than via a port. And um got it. In the similar field, but tail scale is a VP N. So once you're inside the network, you do have permission to do anything. Whereas with uh open Z D pol uh because it's zero trust you can only do what the policy policy determines what you're allowed to do. That's yeah that's uh that's uh good solution. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna take a little break and then we have our uh final stories. This has been so much fun. I hate to wrap it up. Joey Develed.op Don't be telling me you don't have uh mass er at six o'clock in the morning, Robert. I don't. I have the four thirty. Oh wait, in the morning? I'm I'm not gonna go to sleep until after the four thirty. AM good. AM? Who comes to four thirty Mass? Yeah, where comes there there's a there's a special mass we do down in the tomb of St. Peter's and Oh that's a that's probably very prestigious to be doing that.ah Ye yeah. Down at the with Saint Peter Pope one point oh you come we'll I'll sh I'll take you down there. Uh it's it's very nice. Well the there's a window you can look. When you if you go to the basilica No no no this is the special one. This is the chapel of St. Clement ine. It's right next to the tomb of St. Peter. It's so is but isn't the uh the altar in St. Peter's straight above it? Straight up. Yeah but but there is there's no way to look down. There are there's there is ways to look down but not into this chapel. This is a special chapel. Oh. Wow . Wow. So I'm telling you, that's a pretty high-end mass. Do you do you draw straws for that? Who has to get how do you get that? Uh you just have to ask the right people. I'm I'm at the point where I'm I actually know some of the right people now. Oh a maximum is twelve people sit uh sitting or maybe seventeen people sitt So who g who gets invited to that mess? Yeah, yeah. Of dignitaries, diplomats. It's the Illuminati, isn't it? It's the Illuminati. So cool. We've got to go another three hours to keep him awake now. Oh yeah. Well we might as well entertain. Holy cow. Wow. And you do you do that in the vernacular or do you do you do that in Latin? Uh Italian, actually. Italian. Italian. Do you do Itali ? I'm I'm sorry? No? Yes. Yes, you do. But the homily is short. We so it's it's five minutes. Which for some people that's difficult. For me, that's normal. I I always do short homilies. Well, do you know what your homily will be today? I make it up as a go. I I don't write it. Do you have a verse from the Bible? No, no. I've I've read the scriptures and I I know what like the ideas that I want, but I I make it as I go just so that it's dynamic. I'm not one of these guys who goes up and says Mewage. I'm picturing the stonecutter song, Who Contsrol the Bridge Bound We Do I uh I did make a song you were here for that, uh out of the Oh yes, on six seven. Six seven. Yeah. Well six seven, by the way, I have been told by a number of our club members is so catchy they can't stop singing. Oh no, today is six seven. Today is six seven, by the way. Okay. So we will end the show with 6'7 . Although I'm told by the kids it's now six eight. What? I don't think that's true. I think they're messing with me. No, uh , no, no. I will play I will play 6-7. 6-7. By the way, 668 is the neighbor of the beast. That's right . It's right next door. Coming up in just a little bit. Uh Father Robert Ballisaire, who is stay ing up late tonight. So nice to have you. Wow, I'm just blown away. That is amazing. What's the name of the chapel? Saint Clementine? Saint Clementine Clementine. Wow. The the patron saint of oranges ? Is he? Aren't there Clementine oranges? Clementines for Christmas. I I lose track of the the patronages. Uh just many now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Abby uh took the name of uh Saint Abigail because she's Abbey. Yeah. So that was kind of nice. Yeah. Uh Jeff Jarvis is also here. He's a good Presbyterian. Don't try. Although actually a very bad one, but that's not a bad th.ing He's a bad Presbyterian, even worse. Uh but he's a good Scotsman. Thank you for being here, Jeff. It's always great to see you. Of course he'll be back Wednesday for Intelligent Machines and Joey De Villa, congratulations, netFoundry.io. Heyy, he. He's putting ZD on everything. Oh yeah. ZD on all the places. I wonder if maybe I'll put open ZD on my uh on my router. That's a really good idea. I wonder if we're doing tail scale running, but you're right. Once they're in the network, they can do anything they want. Mm-hmm. Gotta limit that . Very, very good . Very, very good. Our show today brought to you by My Mattress. I love my mattress. Gosh, I had such great dreams last night. But Nino, you were in my dreams. I think I was yelling at you though, so I apologize. I apologize for that. I love my Helix Sleep mattress. 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That's h-e-l-i-x sle ep.com slash twit. You're gonna love it. Helix sleep.com slash twit . Uh it is the seventh day of June in the year twenty twenty-six. I'm gonna play just a little bit of this. I'll j Iump'll jump to the um I'll jump to the uh number with swagger owing knocking this is I'll jump to the chorus. Half the time it balloons Everybody sing along. Don't overthink it, that's the trick. It lands like a shrug, then it sticks. A number with swagger, oh wink, not a clue. They say it for the vibe, not to hand it to you . 67 67, that's the whole scene. 67 67 Oh Leo It is catchy and I I hate that. I hate the fact that it's catchy. Padre, we need a karaoke . We need a karaoke version. Well Filipino, so we're going to Well you did hear the uh the the Gregorian chant. I think I made it while you were there for to the Pope's Encyclical section two hundred thirty eight, your favorite section. Yes. No , did you put that text in there or did you just paste them? Okay, you did. But it had but the lyric writer, which is uh probably chat GPT, I'm thinking, clearly can go out. Because I didn't what six seven was and it wrote those lyrics. So it f went out and figured out what it was, you know, what six seven was all about and it nailed it, frankly. Which is that it means absolutely nothing. And the kids just use it to mess with your head . Uh oh, I just closed the uh window of s uh both ATT and Verizon uh loss in the Supreme Court. Uh they upheld the FCC's power to fine them over data sales. Eight to one. Goodness. But it's a mere hundred four million dollars in fines for ATT and Verizon. It's nothing. Who's the one ? Yeah, really. ATT and Verizon didn't just sell access to customer location data. They failed to prevent that data from reaching bounty hunters and even a sheriff who uses to track people without their knowledge. And then of course they sold it to data brokers. Who are the real bad agents of the role. Yeah. I mean, bad enough. I mean, law enforcement gets it, but data brokers, who knows? You know, they're gonna sell it to anybody. So so which Supreme Court justice is the friend of Dog the Bounty Hunter? Uh That's a good question. Did they did they say who the uh they must have. Let me look and see if I can find this . Uh I mean yes, whoever wrote the dissent. Yeah, who is yeah, who who is the most in the pocket of ATT and Verizon. Take a guess. Oh, Clarence. It was Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas. Ah, okay. Yeah. That's I figured I thought it was surprise. Remember, it's not it's not selling out, it's buying in. The fact the fact that you don't have a unanimous decision that it's not okay to circumvent constitutional protections, that's scary to me. That really is scary. This should have been a no-brainer. Yeah. I mean, then what are we doing here? If we're now pretending that I can ignore civil rights as long as I buy the data from someone, that's a horrible precedent. YouTubers won big at the box office. Uh huge success. You saw this coming. You saw this coming. It was coming, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Uh Backrooms, which I went to see on the twenty-ninth, uh, opening night. Actually, Kane Pixels, the director was there. He's a local boy. Twenty years old, got ten million dollars from A twenty four to make this movie. It has already made more than a hundred million dollars in its first weekend. It is a huge success. So does that put it over Marty Supreme already or not yet? I hope so. Marty Supreme not I finally watched that. I did not enjoy it. Um was not a good movie. I have not yet seen it. Don't. It got a lot of buzz, but I it got nine Academy or eight or nine Academy Award nominations, won zero, so that'll tell you something. Okay, so YouTubers out there, start making movies. I want to see Annoying Orange, the movie soon. No, we already saw Annoying Orange the TV show, and that wasn't good. But that's what's interesting . It's interesting that you brought that up because that was the first round of Hollywood saying, Oh, you know, this YouTube thing's big. This was 10 years ago. Let's bring some of these people and they put them on Nickelodeon and stuff. And it was not good. Because it was the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah. Well how so? And and and well, I I I I I think that you've got to recognize that the new things are built in the new medium and you leave them there. You don't try to bring them into the old medium. Although making a movie out of it did okay. Yeah. Well I think we're gonna see more and more of that. I mean we had um Robert Tersik on intelligent machines last week, who's very Hollywood. He was talked about he was great. And he talked about um the um uh AI of the lot conference where we're gonna see movies made. There's one movie that's it's it's it's premiering at uh Tribeca Film Festival made entirely in AI. So between the distribution side and the making side, it it''ss it's exploding. It's gonna explode. And then what was the other one? Obsession is it Obsessions? Obsession. Obsession. Another YouTube movie, uh YouTuber making a movie and a huge success. The YouTubers that I really want to see make it, um, have you ever heard of Viva La Dirt League? Yes. They're a New Zealand. I watch them regularly. They started, they were just making funny games about gaming stereotypes or fight funny shorts about gaming stereotypes, but they actually have chops. They have acting and directing chops. And they're fantastic. Uh, that's the kind of YouTuber I want to see transition into long format storytelling. The other one I'd be interested in seeing would be the archive in between. So they do these um they do these shorts that feel like fifty style um info info films about the uh about um they're basically tour gu urism for the multiverse where they talk about different different cities uh or different parts of the patchwork city which is where every universe in the multiverse intersects and what you can expect to see and it's fascinating. What's it called again? What's the name? The archive in between. Okay. And they also have news alerts talking about oh, beware uh this creature from universe X157 is now terrorizing the neighborhood. Retreat to your home, follow the instructions in your in intergalactic interloper kit, interuniversal interloper kit. And they're done so well. And it feels like a nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties uh civil defense film . And it's all AI . It's written, I believe it's written by humans, but definitely AI generated images . But yeah, really great stuff. That that goes in hand in hand with that story that uh YouTube took the uh streaming hours crown back from Netflix. Absolutely. Worldwide, YouTube is has longer daily average viewing around the world over Netflix. This is this is huge. I'm I'm so frustrated with YouTube these days because the the slop that the new kind of slop that's being made there is I'll get a a fake script for you know I'll see something I like like like uh Campbell Soup, the original Campbell Soup, since I used to live next to the Campbell Soup Test Kitchen Farm in New Jersey. Yes. New Jersey, yes, South Jersey. Where all the best tomatoes are made. Yes. So uh you'll see something like the the the how Campbell's soup rose and fell. Okay, that's interesting. I'll watch that for no. It's it's awful. It's it's it's a slop script, fake voice , a bunch of images picked up from nowhere, and it's wrong. It's made up stuff. It's cheap though. It's confidently wrong. Yes. That's AI. So you so what happened is Netflix went down in 2024. It was a hundred, get this a hundred minutes a day average, down to ninety-three, while YouTube went up in twenty twenty-five ninety-nine point one uh minutes a day on average. I'm way above that. I I more than ninety nine more than an hour. I have YouTube running. It's it's like background music for me. The same here. Just keeps going. So and what do you have on there? Is it educational and informational stuff or is it music? That'll teach liar you. Uh so you turned on autoplay. See, I turned that off. If I turn on autoplay, I will get the weirdest content. I can't do that. No, it's just get a doobie , uh sit back, maybe a beer bong. Yeah, there we go Oh, that's right. You you're not allowed, probably. No, no, no, but you can in the incense burner. You hide have you never been an altar boy? Do you know none of the trickers? Frank Incense. The incense burner you mean the Thurrifer? Yeah, yeah, that thing? Yeah, yeah. Gen Z remained YouTube's most engaged age group last year, averaging a hundred eleven minutes a day, but Oh no, wait a minute. Men. Oh. Sorry. There we go. Age fifty-five to sixty-four. Uh oh. Where viewing has increased fifteen percent since twenty twenty four. Daily average YouTube users also increased for women of all age groups. South Koreans watch YouTube the most, 161 and a half minutes a day. France recorded the biggest growth up by a third. How much of the South Korean numbers are from mukbangs? Yeah. I don't know what that is. Should I ask you? That's just watching people eat an enormous amount of food. That's what I 'm yeah, well I like I 'm going to try every burger in this burger place. That's a mukbang. Is that is that specific to South Korea? No, there's that 's everywhere but it's It's not American cable. You can see stuff like that. But they've now adopted the word Yeah, they've just adopted the word for everything now. So somebody's done a McDonald's mukbang. Wow. Yeah. Right now, yes. YouTube for me is mostly like a legal. I I get a lot of legal um content. Um auditing courts and and uh and lawyers giving out their their personal opinions on personal cases. It's fun stuff for me. I like the law. I would have been a lawyer if I wasn't a priest. I feel like I should be more consistent my YouTube viewing because it's good angel, bad angel. Well yeah. There you go. I know they compete for the same eyeballs and stuff, but YouTube and Netflix aren't the same. No. That's true. No. No, they're not at all. But YouTube that's the point, I think, Benito, is that is that YouTube recognizes uh the culture is recognizing a different uh genre of of entertainment. Netflix tries to recreate the old genres, movies and TV shows. YouTube is something different, and the fact that it's bigger says a lot. And I have to say, half, maybe half my YouTube consumption is listening rather than directly watching. Yeah, that's true. Oh, inter esting. Yeah, th that's what they say. Yeah, are very big on YouTube. And of course, you know, our show, even though we do video, is really there's nothing to see here. Just Hey. Hey. Hold on. Hold on. Like at least an hour of my day on YouTube is actually me on my bike. And I'm just listening to it. I've got uh I've got my phone clipped on my shoulder and uh I'm just listening to YouTube videos lately a lot of Nate B. Jones talking about AI. I love Nate B. Jones. Nate B. Jones is great. Yeah so I I I just listen I I just listen to him. It's either that or um what else ? Um on the other hand, uh either Adam Conover or behind the bastards . Do you think I bet you everybody's AI, I mean YouTube viewing is completely unique, right? You could fingerprint somebody from what they watch, pr pretty much. Because you're mentioning st channels that are huge that I've never heard of . And yet I watch AI probably I mean YouTube, I keep calling it AI.. I don't want it I think this is actually the primary difference between YouTube and Netflix is that everything under the sun is on YouTube. Like everything. That's right. Yeah, Netflix is a lot of commonity what people watch on Netflix. We all watch the same, roughly the same stuff. Well yeah. Yeah, and so on you so on YouTube you curate you curate it yourself. You you you curate YouTube. Netflix kind of does it for you. Right. Yeah. I I went through months where I was binging on uh air traffic control conversations. I I don't know why, but I just started like liking those and then I fell out of love with it and I moved on to van life and then I moved on to legal stuff. So Okay, there we go. Yeah. But i are you doing that under your name or do you have some sp special account that is uh I create a special account for curating uh because otherwise it's too chaotic. Yeah. I'm watching a lot of that stuff on TikTok. Well, we thank everybody who's watching us on YouTube, six hundred and fifty-seven people right now. Thank you. Uh we do uh this show on YouTube, Twitch, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick, but it's most consistently uh YouTube . Uh is where most people uh watch. Of course, if you're in the club, you can also watch in the club twit Discord. Uh we do the show every Sunday, two to five Pacific, five to eight Eastern, mid night to four thirty AM in the uh in Italy. Uh Robert, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it, Father. Robert Ballisair, digital Jesuit, Jesuit Pilgrimage .app is the app that he designed. But there's a whole lot more to Robert. He is on blue skin. Some we know about, some we don't know about. Yeah. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. We love having you on. It's great to see you. Good to see you again, Padre. I'm so I'm so privileged to see you twice in a week. It it makes me feel like uh I did when back when I was still at Twit. So Oh we miss having you here. Miss you living in our basement . In the no-hole. The no-hole, please. Yeah. K N O W . Uh Thank you, Robert. Now we get to scroll to the basement. The Clement ine Chapel is a hell of a lot better bean bas.ement That's literally the of St. Peter's. It's a higher quality basement. But there are both . There are no beanbags in the Clementine Chapel. We have hard chairs. Very hard. Very uncomfortable, I'm sure. Uh I don't know. Do you say good mass? Have a good mass? Have a good mass. Uh yeah, that works. Break a leg. We get it. Break a leg. Don't break a leg. Um just just uh just have a great time down there in the chapel. I'll bring I'll bring you down there when you come over, Leo. I would I would be honored. I would love to see that. I'm going to bring Abby with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff Jarvis, of course, will be back on Wednesday. We'll interview Jeffrey Connell from Noose Research about Hermes . We talk AI on intelligent machines. His book, Hot Type, available from his website, jeffjarvis.com. Audio book finished. I'll do the last pickups on Tuesday of the things I muffed up, which are many. Do they stop as you're reading it? Do they stop you as you're reading, or do they let you kind of roll in the No the first time I did it out of your book, you just went on from wherever you screwed up and did it again. Now that means they gotta edit. Now now you screw up and they so no you gotta take that again and they back up and you get let's say a three-word cue and then you have to pick up right then. That's so it matches. Yeah so it matches. Yeah I've because that's sometimes you'll hear that in audio book. can You tell there's an edit 'cause it's just changes so dramatically. Yeah. So then you they want you to hear how you were talking and then just kind of Yeah, and then I did the the pickups from when I screwed up things. Like I I said could instead of would, that kind of stuff. Right. Don't you get to say, hey, I'm the author and could is fine. To some extent, but they get pretty when there were cases there were cases where I said this doesn't make sense in audio, I'm changing this. They said, Okay, it's your book, you can do that. But no, generally they want it to be they want to Yeah, you'll you'll hear that on audiobooks. They'll say if you're listening instead of if you're reading, which is what the text said. Yeah. But but they'll they'll play what I screwed up and then right after that I have to say the same thing corrected so that I think I've heard how my tone was right then. And you refuse to read the part at the beginning about what? At the end where it says no no AI company may take this in this universe or any future universe because you're evil bastards, I won't read that part. So they have to find other they they they have the they have plenty of other voices who've read that. So they're not like me, you and uh embrace the AI AI over a lot too. Let them be discovered there. I think we made a deal with somebody that if people wanted AI, wanted Twitz content for AI, they would go to this company and license it. But who's gonna do that? It just seemed odd to me. But I guess we give you a legal. Is that Pro Rata? I don't know how it works. I should ask . It's Pro I don't know who it is. No. Um it's pro I mean, I don't even know if it's on our page. Is it on our page? Does it say like if you'd like to license this content, please contact Pro Rada. I don't know . It should say that somewhere. But uh I mean we we could put all the Twit content in the archives over here. We have a bunch of the storage vault now. So like what not to do. Like how how not to be, right? Uh thank you very much, Jeff. Thank you, Joey. Congratulations on the new gig at netfoundry.io developer advocate. And you're working working on some what AI thing there. What are you working on? Uh I'm there. Uh what I'm doing is I'm promoting a lot of the uh new AI tooling. So it's built on top of open zd and it is for agents to talk to llms agents to talk to safely mcp servers safely and agents to talk to other agents all zero trust. Basically you,'re either using zero trust or you're going bust. Zero trust or bust. Zero trust or bust. Joey De Villa. You should write a uh accordion song for that. Joey's a great accordionist as well. There we go. I mean, you've got an LLM to generate that song, Leo. No, no, I believe in uh humans. I bring in uh we brought in a chorus to do that six seven song. Organic. As a as a musician, I am a protein chauvinist. Carbon-based life forms for me. Thank you very much. Thank you all for watching. A special thanks to our club Twit members who make this show possible, uh yes, we have advertising, covers about 70 percent, maybe sixty percent of our costs. In order to do these shows, we need your help. And boy, you've really c stepped up and we appreciate it. Twit.tv slash club twit if you're not a member. If you're not a member, you will not be able to see our coverage of WWDC tomorrow. We all the keynote stuff is I don't like paywalls, but we have to put it behind the paywalls so we don't get taken down by Apple. Uh so if you want to see it, twit.tv slash club twit. You also get ad free versions of all the shows, special programming we do only uh for our uh club members and a lot more. But mostly you get the good warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing you're supporting independent journalism. Beholden to none except you are the users, because we're all users here. Thanks, Joey, Robert, Jeff, thanks to all of you for joining us. We will see you next time. And as I've been saying for 21 freaking years, another twit is in the can. We'll see you later.