Risks of Prediction Markets and Betting

It's time for Twit this week in teech. We got a panel for you today. Lisa Schmeiser is here, Jason Heiner and it's the return of Oh doctor O and JJ Stone lots to talk about. The Supreme Court protects your privacy for a change. Anthropics Fable is back and AI is costing us a lot. It's coming up next on Twit. This episode is brought to you by Black Hat USA. If you listen to this show, you go deep on the technical detail Well, so does Black Hat. For nearly three decades, it's been where the security industry's most rigorous research gets presented pressure tested More than a hundred hands on trainings taught by practitioners who actually deployed in live environments, not lectureies reading from slides, and hundreds of peer reviewed briefings that go well past the overview into the real work across the four areas defining security right now AI and autonomous threats. Cyber confflict systemic resilience and identity This year, Black Hat's Briefings Pass includes all keynotes and mainstage access. pllus business hall entry You also get breakfast, lunch, arsenal live tool demos, on demand session access and admission to the midnight in the warroom screening Black hat takes place from august first To the sixth in Las Vegas. If you want the depth this show gets into in person with the people doing the work This is the room, and we'll be there too. Prices rise on july seventeenth, so book before then, use the code twwit for two hundred dollars off your briefings pass at blackhat dot com slash usash twenty six That's BLA cK HaT d. com slash US dash twenty six Podcasts you love from people you trust This is T it This is Twit this week at teech. episode one thousand ninety one Recorded Sunday, july fifth, twenty twenty six. But you didn't move the bodies It's time for Twit this week and tech, show where we cover the week's tech news. Lisa Schmeiser is here from nojitter. com. Hello, Lisa. Hi, thank you for having me back. Always great to have you. She covers telecom and so forth at Nojitter. as always welcome here. Jason Heiner also here Jason's made the big move to AI Editor in chief also at the deepview. com hi Jason Hey, Glad R'y here. to see you Yes Are you are you rooting for England or Mexico tonight That's the question. Is that tonight? That's tonight. I have not followed the World Cup so much. It's not cool to say like I know everybody, people who didn't even know what the word soccer meant, you know six months ago now are following it. I notice I fall to soccer once every four years and then fall immediately out of love Briefly I love it So he, I think o it. My u My loyalty is clear from my shirt. I am wearing a definitely a Mexican Wow, them very cool That is an Azteic wararrior. I believe Now, let us talk to somebody who is actually in the Philadelphia area. Where he has been assaulted by soccer fans, mister Owen J.J Stone, O Dct in the house. Hello, Owen. Hey, Uncle Leo, yes. If you have money for parking, come hang out. It's one hundred eighty dollars for a regular vehicle, seven hundred dollars for oversiz. We got AI price in parking over here, but want G yourself a forty five dollars beer And one hundred degree weather your surge surge pricing right now the backyard. That's awesome Oh b. Was it crazy yesterday? It must have been. I mean it's amazing. I have a lot of friends when I did not it was it's too hot. It was like one hundred five degrees. I'm too big. I won't make it. I'll melt in a car by the time I got there. But everyone is out there. The streets are packed. Everybody's having a great time Um it's it's actually really amazing to see all the Yeah, talks and the Twitters and the live streams and everything like that. spirit is really good. And one of the things I love about this it's kind of like the Olympics where you get all these countries together, including Iran countries that are not normally, you know friends of one another Playing being sports. been like and playing the game and I just think it's great. all the bars are full, all the scotch Ebody all our whiskey and beer.. I mean, drinking Boston out of beer was one of the things I thought I'd never. That's classic.ery in my lifetime. Classic. That was amazing. you saw they were out of all the beer except Bud Light Oh Even at the end of the day, you have to make a decision. You know Some would say that's not beer U All right. Well we're back in business with with Fable. Fable is is back The we're going to talk about that in just a little bit. the Supreme Court And its weak with a rash of decisions Talk a little bit about that. Google paying billions in fines. There's a lot of topics. and of course Many of us will be paying billions to Apple for anything any new hardware thanks to AI. So a bunch of big stories to get here. Let's start with the Supreme Court story because I think this is Maybe more important then it's getting credit for Uh, the Supreme Court ruled The Geofencing warrants violate the Fourth Amendment Th this comes from law enforcement asking Well, in this case, Google, but I think other companies in general Things like, hey, give us all the people who are within a mile of the seven hundred and eleven that got robbed the other night So we can just, you know, see who's there These are big fishing expeditions Justice Kagan, which who wrote the majority opinion, said that sensitive data scooped up by these warrants counts as a Fourth Amendment search and offers individuals a reasonable expectation of Privacy evenven if they're in a public area In other words, it it's wrong. It was six to three. against the government Good news, right? Jason I mean, yeah, upholding privacy. The US. is kind of shocking. It is sort of shocking. You know, the US has had this long history of privacy going back to like of defending privacy And yet like modernly, businesses have certainly been able to be on the winning side of most of the court decisions and governments and then in the past couple decades, government you has been on the side of of being able to do sort of almost what it wants to invade the privacy of citizens. and so you know, anything thing that helps protect citizens from overreach by government or corporations, I think, you know, as people living in this country, which all of us are have to view as a good thing. this the c I don't like to read the U details are the case often because then people get influenced by whether the heinousness of the crime or how much the guy deserved to go to jail or that kind of distracts from the overall importance of this for all of us, not necessarily this bank robber who caught and actually pleed guilty. Um Owen I I guess the only justification for this is it is a very useful tool. and catching people and they caught a bank robber by doing this So I'm not against crime per se You're not against crime? I'm not against crime per se. Okay I living in the current scheme of America where the last time America got free, apparently we had to do a lot of crime to get that freedom, right? Rebellion That's a good point crime. That's a good point. I've never been against criminal activity. told me don't don't take a l tea in the harbor dressed up as an Indian is not exact crime is defined by the state, but if this exact isn't doing it in a way that is that meets your principles then I'm against hurting women and children, but everything else might be on the table. I don't know what's going on in the world. Faraday Cage with me att all times for my phone because I never know what I might accidentally do something. I am so excited about this because the way that the flock camera systems are moving and they' starting to pull in Bluetooth data. And things like that, I'm hoping that This ruling could help protect us from that, which is outside the scope right now where it does't have any kind of regulation, they're just throwing in things willy nilly, but this is great for that in my mind. goinging forward in the future, when someone comes to try and put something forth to stop them from just collecting information and sharing it openly with these flock cameras and the systems that they're putting in. Yeah. I appreciate this on the general The government had said look, every, you know, Uh Turning on location data is voluntary. The bad guy in this case had turned on his Google location history Most criminals are not smart. I mean rememember the robbed the bank and he wore the BK go to dark shoes and he got caught in the woods because his shoes were lighting up. I mean, criminalsn. It's the smart ones you got to worry about. The ones that aren't smart. like''t worry about really sm that I worry about. In David Simon's excellent book Homicide Life A year on the killming Streets, it was the basis for homicide. It kicked open the doors and we all know the David Simon story U One of the passages that stands out early on is he's like, look, criminals are dumb. If they weren't dumb, they wouldn't be criminals. Or they would choose a crime that is less likely to get caught nowadays Yeah. D't rob a bank Yeah. That's what Bitcoin is for. Come on in the stock market and insider trading, There so many better waysational television a podcast network. you want to steal? Wait a minute, that's wrong. The smart ones end up heads of state and leaders of industry Yeah.olic crime. Yeah I think one of the most interesting aspects of this ruling is them putting forth the idea that people actually own their individual data which u is which I think we're kind of sleeping on that because that really opens the door to all sorts of interesting developments and or when somebody decides to go after companies that they feel are profiting off of their data without their approval, their control or, their cut. Um This we now have something in a Supreme Court decision that explicitly connects an individual to the data that they generate and argues that they ultimately have control over it And I think we're going to see repercussions for that play out down the road Now what about the government argue that people should not have an expectation of privacy when they are in public U that's kind of that's that argument for flock cameras as well. By the way, we're learning that These flock cameras, which are have ALPRs, automatic license plate readers on them in many communities. there's one right outside my door here as a matter of fact, many communities have these U you know, started with red light cameras. The problem is the Fock database is national Law enforcement often accesses it to follow people out of state for committing crimes in a state that are not a crime in another state Also lately we've seen that these flock cameras are also being installed with things like Bluetooth snarfers which as you may or may not know, as you trreundle down the street, all your Bluetooth devices are advertising say saying I'm here. I'm here. You want to join? And so you can You can somebody drives by a flock camera pick up a huge amount of data them. We're seeing more and more and technology is allowing more and more of this kind of invasion of privacy So' it's encouraging to me that the Supreme Courts did not say Hey just because You're in public doesn't mean you don't have some. expectation of privacy. You do not you still have a privacy right That's when I was excpectited to film. Yeah They like to film, like you know, those auditors that go out there on the sidewalk and they film people and they try to get somebody back to another film, but at least I can see them doing it A lot of the times when you see a flat camera or something like that, you think it's just a red camera. You don't know that it's there. When someone's swiping or stealing your data, you don't you're not even aware of it. At least when someone's filming you on the street, like don't do that. I can see that you're doing. and I know I can turn my head and walk away if I want to. If I don't want to be in your view of your camera. If you see someone with the medical glass, you're like, oh boyactly Yes. even though now they've done the thing where they take the light out so you don't even know they're recording anymore, which is Med is no Medic still has the light. No not Meda doesn't do it. There's other companies. Yeah. Yeah and certain and their services like My Facebook, there's a guy down the street from me, apparently that does it for a hundred. Oh really? you can get the light taken out of these? Yep, you go min hundred. Is got that the same guy who was going around saying the fire TV sticks a few years ago? Leo, I'm not trying to snitch at anybody. know the guys out here doing service H' my work's all. Takes twenty minutes, Uncle Leah, That's all I'm try to let you know. Hey, Ma picture that guy right there That guy. he's up to no good. I do think we're going have we're gonna to have these, aren't we? In the next five to ten years, these are going to be ubiquitous. These cameras and glasses. think You think. I mean, we knock them off of people's faces ten years ago and made fun of them. We call them glass holes. Everyone's got like a real nostalgia thing going for twenty sixteen right now. We can bring it back. They look better now. The problem before is when you look to Skobo, you're like, what are you doing? Yeah You look like a cybor.re like you like' supposed to little thing. Yeah, it's now it'says a pair of sunglass. You can get them tinted and they look n. they blend in. Like I said, once you Kylie Jenner has them. you know know This makes me mad because I love my Ray Band wayayfarers and and I was are I was wearing before Meta got to bed with them, so they've ruined the wayfarers for you. Y. So are we gonna get used to the idea that everybody everywhere is on camera at all times? I mean, it's sort of the case. If you're a high school kid now, you know that you can't really get away with anything. Yeah. Well Dad is I was say if you live in China, you're, you know, you that's the reality you've lived with for, you know, decade, right? L or the UK. So I think that These things are less governed by regulations and more by like norms culture expectations. so And I think that that we sort of they wear us down over time with that. because people in China and the UK also didn't like it at first, right? Now you sort of never hear anything about it. I think that's probably more likely what happened the rest of the world. Yeah. My daughter just got back from two weeks in China and one of the first things she mentioned Bear in mind, she's still out of her mind with Jetlag, and so there's a lot of incoherence. but the What of the think she you my mommy she was like, there were cameras everywhere. We could go any placeace without noticing all of the cameras And to her that was just really, really strange. and The fact that it was so normalized, I think sort of set her spidey senses going. I do agree that American teenagers have pretty much grown up with a really, really different relationship too the ubiquity of cameras and a hyper awareness that Anytime you're out in public, anything you do can be quickly disseminated and go viral What I will be interested in seeing is whether we'll get any sort of countercultural pushback from young people who are like, this is not how we're supposed to live, or if they'll find a way to hack it or subvert it, because this is what young people do to try to set their identities separately from the generations that came before them So yes, o doctor has donned his sunglasses that he may speak freely. We don't know who he is. No no So my daughter is in that group of There used to be the girls would have the duck face and they want to, you know, be grown and all that kind of stuff. There's a new movement of all these teens where donon't show their face They just look off to the side at everything or all their experiences. So if they're at the beach, they're not the girl sitting at the beach in the bikini. It's the girl looking off at the beach. It's the guy looking off at the beach and I'm like Whats's like we're our. Yes, it's all predicted is great. So it's going to be the object of the gays. They're inviting you to see their gazays. That's so But you can tell the difference in the kids that do it versus the ones that don't when you're involved with like these kids. But like it's it's becoming more mainstream of these kids because they know now when they're going to college, they're starting to apply for jobs and they don't want to have the Howdy face duck lips things in their history and they don't want to delete their experiences. so they're changing their perspective of things. So to what you were saying, I do think that there is some kind of normalcy getting back to the world and nature and wanting to have real experiences and just not be seen all the time, especially when you're putting yourself front and forward On the internet. And yet, you know, Larry Ellison said this week that Well those cameras are good. It makes people behave. They're on their best behavior now Yeah, he's been kind of on that since the nineties J think It was McNeil you said get over it. Privacy is dead, right? But that was many years ago. I mean some of the textios has said sibingss fous see like If you don't, you know, want to, you know, have the technology get you in trouble and don't do anything bad. Right famamously, right? So like Yeah, not surprising, right. And these people are the same ones that complain where they're like young people don't party like they used to. They're not drinking like they used to. They're not risk takers like they used to be. What is the incentive where if you do this sort of stuff You have no control over other people, recording you, uploading you. You have no recourse with any of the companies that have gotten impressions and traffic based on the idiocy. have no social repercussion. like you have no social recourse for cleaning it up I think these things are kind of linked. If you're going to heavily surveill a population, you're going to change how they behave. So yeah There is a new bill in Congress sponsored by Elizabeth Warren and Mary Gay Scanlin of Pennsylvania. the Health and Location Data Protection Act Now it's been around for a few years. They have updated it to ban companies from selling data to brokers, including health data Um, they've Now, I think this is tilting in windmills because I can't imagine Congress actually passing this So maybe write to your Congress critter and say, hey, we like this idea. we need this There is no federal law protecting your data privacy And there really needs to be Um If it's your property, which the Supreme Court just established, then shouldn't you be able to protect it The bill would require the Federal Trade Commission to enact rules within one hundred and eighty days would allow the FDC state attorneys general and effective individuals to sue to enforce it that private right of actions. I have mixed feelings about it, but it can be very, very effective. It would also earmark a billion dollars to the FTC for enforcement over the next ten years Do it guys a shot? I think we all need to write our members of Congress, our Congress critters and say We need federal privacy protection It's sad that we have to ask for Yeah It should But this is the thing about billionaires by saying that and members of C They're protected. They have it. They have They have it. So they don't get what we're talking about Well take a look at how data was framed for so long, which is data is the new oil. and oil was an extractive resource who belonged to the person who could figure out how to get it out of the ground. and sell it. And so We've always looked at data the same way as it's an extractive resource that belongs to the person who figures out how to collect it, bundle it, and sell it like The legislation like this requires us to make a really fundamental shift in our thinking about Who data belongs to? and Well economic model works with it. And if you're wondering who wants this, the X has just petitioned X. com Elon Musk's rebranded Twitter has just petitioned the Federal Trade Commission to drop their oversight of privacy on X. This this goes back to Twitter days FTC had found that a coding error had caused Twitter to improperly share users contact information for ad targeting contontact information that by the way, like your phone number you had given Twitter for two factor authentication. They were then taking that phone number and selling it on X is subject to right now to costly independent audits And the FTC has the authority tomand documents to ensure compliance with data privacy laws without further legal action. They could just say, hey to us right now. X says Your honor. This order imposes burdens and costs That we shouldn't have to do it anymore because it's now X, it's not Twitter anymore U And by the way, GDPR is taking that care of that. so you don't have to So they want the FDC to drop that. againg Somet to write your, I don't know, write your member of Congress or something That as a real poloultergeist, you move the body, tombstes, but you didn't move the body. Hey. Th we built a house right on top of it Incidentally as we talk about the World Cup going on right now, spepeaking of surveillance In order to be safe in the World Cup, one billion dollars was spent on security systems, including face recognition Fast company asks a legit question. What happens after the games end? to all of this These cameras, you think they're gonna take them down You know, to ask your glasses. Oh and ask your glasses. what are they gonna to do with? I'm not wasting any water, Jason. You're trying to trick me. water electrious conern. I will not I will not be aid. All right to your games out here trying to trick me up. Now, the thing that cracks myother most about that is whenever Elon says anything It makes me laugh. she's like, we don't have to do this. FC doesn't have to worry about it We're anythingything he says, I want the exact opposite of. Yes, I agree. I can't, you know, Leo, I haven't been on this show in about four five years. H No It hasn't been that long. I know it feels that. Well Three years, two years when. Ive just extended up to I say, I haven't been here in twenty years, Uncle Leo. I remember it is forever. Then I when I was on this show, I made a shirt. We're not going to Mars. That man promised me Mars by twenty twenty. Oh yeah, yeah. sixix extra years. I sold hundreds of those shirts and we still aren't anywhere halfway to Mars, Uncle Leo We're not living on Mars. We're not sniffing Mars. This man just be saying stuff Anyway, everybody's going to have a free robot in their house. Okay? Where's the metal coming from? Jason, you want all this stuff built. You want to just destroy you want to drill through hope and end up in China just to get some extra batteries. Where is it coming from? It's not going happen. We ain't even on Mars y. You'all w want to believe anything this man. Do you have any of those t shirts left? I think they're very mean I got one is still snug on me. Ill rock I put it on computer. We have not made it to Mars yet I wear You nearly need to like do a limited drop t shirt this year too This is how you pay for your next water system I just say I'm glad that they finally put security of fencing around the reflecting pool because that was such a hazard. People falling in, dunking their toes in it It's just about time. That's Did you read that they're trying to get rid of the cherry blossoms? You what? golf course? No. I't go G No, no, no. Go Google it I don'tan to make up st that we got stuff talk about. That's notil September. I' wait uil after the summer ye, then com after the summer iss depadation., Who needs trees? They just get in the way of the golf ball? Oh my gosh. A gift of a hundred years from Japan. Yeah need it. Who needs it? All right, let's take a little break so we can cool off here a little bit. You're watching this week at tech. Owen Doc. o dooc back, baby And we've been missing you, sir. You know, the last time you were on, I was playing the voohoo Zella still. That I need I'll cross the bridge when I add that. I It' It's great to see you again, my friend. Mzela' over data centers. There you go. Yeah. You know what? there' people suing now those data centers are so annoying They're worse than Vuuzillas. They're loud. They're loud and they're whiny be louder than Vuuzellass though I don't know. probably not. That might be a toss up. You're pretty loud. They're pretty loud. Ladies and gentlemen, Lisha Schmeizer are also here from nojitter. com and the great Jason Heiner His new newsletter, the deepview. Tom Did you go to the big AI conference Alex Kantterowwitz had in San Francisco U that is probably the only one I have not been to in. to the mall Six. I have been to the mall. Five out of the last six weeks. I was it events. Well, we'll talk about fable when we Cables back. This episode of this Week of Tech brought to you by Ths Canary. I love my Ths Canary think I would have show it to you, but it's busy working. And the nice thing about the thinks canary when it's busy working, Quiet unless somebody has broken into your network. What is the thinkink C canary? It's a honey pot. beautifully designed, perfectly designed to impersonate Almost anything It can be a SharePoint server, an exchange server, a Windows XP machine, a Windows eleven server. It could be a Linux server. 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Nope You know why? Because once you get one of these things, you realize, how did I live without it How did I survive without this? Visit cananary d. toool slash twwit Edit the code Twit And the how did you hear about us box ten percent off Canary tools slash Twit we thank them so much for their support So it was june ninth that the Trump administration, abruptly, a Friday afternoon, announced that Anthropic could not let non U. S. citizens use Either mythos, it's high end security AI or fable the kind of consumer version of that. Now the problem is, of course, An anthropic doesn't know if its users are US citizens or not They never asked about that So they just had to shut it down. It had been shut down since june ninth. they on june thirtieth, three weeks later. The U.S. lifted those restrictions and Fable and Mythos came back online I have to say it's been out now for what five days and I've been playing with it. a lot of people playing with it Fable and are very impressed Now anthropic do a little bit of PR with the president. We're not sure exactly what they offered. One of the things we know they've done is they've made the protections even stronger, but they were very good begin with They had a classifier that will basically prevent you from doing anything anythingything too serious with it, certainly not bioeapons research AI research you can't use it to attack systems Alex Samos, we had him on intelligent machines when this first happened and he's been lobbying Yeah you actually created a site called Free Fable org with hundreds of signatures from some of the best known people in computer science saying, please, you know, this is political. It has nothing to do with technology U Stamos says there's a lot to unpack here Ananthropics bearing some hard truths and careful political language First of all, they verified that none of the jailbreaks that were performed by Amazon and others using notot jailbreaks, but security flaws discovered by Anthropic fable. were things that other models couldn't do Oh Anthropic pointed that out, even their even their most inexpensive models like Haiku could do the same thing They also said there's There is going to be The U. S. Department of Commerce is Center for AI Stards and Innovation start to enforce safeguards on models. And models that aren't safe would not be released. Now there is a problem, Stamless points out, There's no way to know If a model safe and we don't have the technology to demonstrate it And that's become very, very clear. Anthropic also cast some shade on Amazon for narking on them The biggest point Stamos makes is this he said calls it I think he's a soccer fan, an own goal for the United States He said We will see how bad US models get over the next six months. And it's a real opportunity for the Chinese models and we've already seen that. we've seen A lot of people move to Chinese models. It's made a lot of people wonder, should we invest our company in a model that could be told at any moment Now, Jason, you covever this. I wonder how much blame is ghostthropic for of the rhetoric around how dangerous Mythos was to begin with Boy, I'm going to be honest with you Leo. I'm of two minds of this and I sort of go back and forth on it. I think the last time I was on the show, I mentioned that, you know, Anthop they didn't have the computing to run it if they wanted to, right? So like they remember that since They first announced in April that they were they announced Mythos that U They've gone out and raised a bunch of funds because they didn't have the computing to run this thing. They actually made a deal with Elon Musk's ex AI for compute, right? A billion dollars than compute That's right, Colossus, their giant compute machine. whichich was supposed to all of XAI was supposed to use it, but XAI has not been blowing the doors off. so they've got a lot of extra compute lining around. So they're like, well why don't just go ahead and sell it? Right. I think Meta is doing that now too, by the way, they announced this week they're gonna start sellingacity. Yeah. That's right. There's a lot more money to be made off seellid capacity probably than models, but that's a whole other story The thing is They didn't have the compute to run it if they wanted to. So going out and saying how dangerous it was was clearly one, it was a marketing ploy. Poy is maybe a strong word, but it a It was a smart marketing thing to do. That said, I have since heard from some security people of like , this thing runs through stuff like Swiss cheese. L it can go and find vulnerabilities and stuff that like we've never that had never been found before. And so that sobered me up a little bit. But I think maybe the bigger I'll say there's two things that are like the bigger picture about this thing One is that mododels are commoditizing really quickly. And so opening Iye and Anthropic want to go public, They're not going to be able to become trillion dollar companies just by selling the latest and greatest models. There's just not going to be enough profit in it But what Anthropic is doing, and I think what Anthropic realizes is what they can do is become known as the safe AI brand And that saafe AI brand could be worth trillion dollars, right? So this was good for them.. This was good for them, This is what you're saying. The Trump ban was Absolutely it was. It absolutely was. It was very good for them. And here's the other thing that it's good for almost by accident is that, you know, we've heard and probably nobody more than Dario Amadeay you know, has said, you know, we would pause our stuff if everybody else paused theirs for the for the in the case of safety, right? That was the strangest post. He said that right before they released Fabable. Well, he's been saying it consistently, he has actually been saying it consistently for about a year. But nobody's pausing. So nobody's pausing say He knew not from were, right? It is a very safe thing to say he' nothing from were. Right yet This sort of crazy out of the blue thing that probably happened because somebody in the US government, like this thing got out there and somebody in the US government like set it loose on some some US government system and went o crap. L this thing just blitz through all of our security and then convinced somebody we need to we need to pause this thing. Pause it We got a problem, Houston. They achieved the pause though Here' hereere's the thing is they achieved what hasn't no, you know, safety advocates, no, you know, Dari Ahmed, nobody has been able to achieve which they did actually pause it. And then since then, remember, OenAIs released GPT five point six, which has now also been paused is still paused, has not been unpaused. That's a good point And so The US. government is sort of like backed their way into this. but I think as we talk remember we talked earlier about those sort of like norms and expectations, if the norm and expectation becomes look before you, you know, these labs are pushing out these super powerful models that could wreak haav it on havoc on God knows what? L let's actually set up a regular expectation that, okay, Hopefully it's not the US government, but may some kind of like third party agency or something that does these eValves and creates sort of some safety motions before these things are released. That would be a good thing. and I think the models are getting powerful enough that it would be important and very you know useful and I am exactly where you are of two minds. On the one hand, this is in my opinion, the most consequential technology that come down the pipe since computers were invented On the other hand yeah, it could be disastrous If this thing is so good at finding exploits that a nit wit like me could just say, Hey, break, let's break into, you know Fort Knox, you know, I mean, that's that's problematic. So I understand the risk Um But at the same time, I don't like the idea that the government or any government agency I don' We'll have the opppportunity to put its thumb on the scale, right Yeah Remember Europe freaked out about this too, by the way, Europe was like yeah. Wait you're pausing the model for everybody else. This thing was out for several days. like our adversaries have it. they can attack our systems and the US government is holding ono it. And meanwhile, we're at risk because there are people out there that already have access to this and could really, you know run through our systems like Swiss cheese, right? They didn't love that And then openp AI apparently is talked about giving the Trump administration five percent of all the AI companies you know,'s it's a sort of a bribe sort of. And I think then there's the concern that well maybe this isn't about technical skills, but this is about who's going to Wh's going to pay the president. who's going to give give I mean, obviously it doesn't go into Trump's pocket maybe not so obviously Mbe the non cynical version of that. just as a counterpoint, Leo, to like where They are aware of the fact that they are losing the narrative. Open AI and Anthropic and Google are very aware of the fact that they are losing the narrative among the broader population that people hate AI. AI They hate big tech. It's kind of part and parcel of the same thing. sixty one percent of Americans have a negative opinion of AI, right That's not a secret. I think it's probably pretty conservative, you know, in general And so I think what their thing is is like, look This could create a lot of economic value. It also is gonna create all kinds of challenges If it does and if they become public companies, If they they're like one of the policy proposals and I had an interview with the person who wrote this at Open AI, the research the researcher who wrote this. that wrote some policy proposals of like what are the ways we could make AI actually useful to people that it could help with the sort of job loss, with the economic inequality, all of that And one of these things these researchers proposed that eventually, you know, Altman and the others signed off on was that what if we took when we do go public, what if we took a chunk of our shares and we allocated them to the U. S. government, and it essentially gets like redeployed to the American people. Now how does that? The devil's in the details, right? They didn't explain how. Maybe it wouldn't just be up an AI. Maybe it's according to Fancial Times proposed arrangement would involve other U.S. AI companies handing over a similar state what I don't know who that means. I think it means they're saying likere if we do it, we'd like to see everybody else do it. I think what I don't know how practical that is. But what I do think is interesting is that like this wasn't, I think just like a Sam Altman driven thing or an executive driven thing. Like this was driven by researchers who are quite altruistic, right who are like they're they're punching the time card, right? They're not making billions off of off of their stock. you know, but they they are sincere about like what are the ways that could that we could think creatively because we're going to this thing could get really, you know big in a way that could Um cause a lot of job dislocation, could, you know redistribute wealth in negative ways, which is already This is gonna challenge all This is gonna appease the American populace that o, hey, we're getting five percent. Is that gonna make you feel better, Owen? two things. First, let me bend the knee at Jason for a second, okay. So I'm building something with a friend And when Fable came out, we did more in three days Th we did amazing. And I'm not lying. like It was on steroids. and when they took it away It was like, you know, taking a baby's pacify away, like we were crying. I was like, oh my God, I'm back to being stupid. So yes, it's powerful. and use it for the right thing, it does matter and it was worth all the water, Jason. Now, when it comes to billionaires giving back to the American people, I've been waiting for trickle down economic since before I was born, sir. unless you're going to tell me something useful and direct and clear. right now they're taking away Social seecurity, Medicaid can't get no free education. If billionaires want me to get on board with your AI train, tell me that whatever percentage you're going to put away isn't going to go to the federal government. Just tell me you're going to give free health care to every American citizen in the United States of America. What if they did that? If you told me that, that would get every dfist that doesn't know anything about anything on your side. Instead of filling up buses with guys with yellow t shirts saying, drink the AI water, it's fine. And don't worry about your electric bill. it's fine. And don't worry about the forty two twin turbo jets engines they got running in your local city and heritage. it's fine. Maybe just maybe I would get on board. But other than that, I want my water, I want fresh air and I don't want the Dbels popping over one hundred in the middle of the night because somebody wants to know how to make brownies They're very good brownies though. I mean, they better be but you're not wrong about you' not wrong about the minimal benefits Yeah huge. You want to make better brownies? substitute water for milk, add in an extra egg. Bob your own. I also wonder though, five percent of what? because I don't think these companies are making money It's five percent of their stock, I guess. R Right. That's's money that doesn't exist yet.s it's an agreement that they're all losing money Yeah right? Nobody there's no AI company out there that's actually I mean get positive income Google, right But Google They make money in advertising. They and their cloud business, right? And so they're selling cloud capacity to others, including, that's a good point. If you're making the picks and axes and duneres for the gold rush, then you're making some Nvidia is making a lot of money off actually ee companies. five percent of Nvidia probably would pay for the federal healthcare. All healthcare. Everything. V gentify and get on it. I'm just saying you gotta attach it to something that's dumb enough that everybody can understand It's fair. That's true Yeah. because everything else you just said just sounds like government talk about what they always been talking about Oh, you know? He's not worth a trillion dollars, Odcta. He can't be taxed on that. It's not real. But how come he can borrow it to buy his fourth and not pay any taxes on it. And then again, I understand how works because you know, I mean, I don't I't pay tax in twenty years under the li. not going would. Wait a minute. now Owen, now you shouldn't be saying that out loud now. There might be people listen I'm clear with the IRS. They know what I'm doing. The Church of O doctor is running strong America. That little family foundation, which nurseing I got LLC escort Do everything Im supposed to do Uncle Leo.. regular people are out here getting robbed and they're not getting anything for it. So letesss' going gonna give them education or healthcare and healthcare would be the thing. You more soertain education. Not everyone wants to go to college, right? But if you just gave them free healthcare, that would be the carrot that will get everybody on board for what you're trying to push through in thiss AI revolution. Especially since are so explicitly linked to employment And you have all of these AI big brains going, We're going to eliminate so many white collar jobs. We're going to eliminate the jobs of the educated jobs, jobs, jobs are going away. It's inevitable. You can't stop it. And all people here as I will be poor and the first time I break a leg, you may as well just shoot me in the head because I can't afford to get I can't afford to get it set So De cououple Health care from the employment market, and people will probably care a lot less when they lose their jobs D Well, u yeah I don't know if that's going to be enough though to convince people to like big tech and AI and I mean they love fracking at this point. likeike people protested. just need a good ad campaign. People protested fracking and you have folks who are like, my grandwater, it's terrible. but it's and like States now have earthquakes that didn't used to have earthquakes thanks to fracking. There were the same environmental considerations. and in the end all you have to say to Americans is, but this keeps fuel and power cheap. And they'll be like, oh, okay. And if you give somebody a big enough carrot with AI They won't care about the environmental impact anymore. Like they care right now because They're paying horrible utility bills and they can see the visible degradation of the water. It's really easy to distract people from environmental concerns. So I would generally agree with you. fracking is a terrible example because fracking doesn't come down main street in your rural town When we're when you're putting a data center in every other town and every other area and close to major cities and suburbs and boroughs, you're not fracking everywhere. There's only certain places where fracking is palatable, right or useful. They're trying to put data centers every three miles. I'm like, bro How How much data do we need? What are you Who are you trying to learn from? What do we need to know? that you need that many like they need a blogies recipe. It's not the brownies anymore. We've got like forty two times what China has for data centers. And they're out there putting them in the ocean, using solar power and other things to power theres W'reers out here cooking with Crisco, taking up the temperature, messing up the planet. Yes, I'm looking at you, Jason. I got to combat Your positivity with the balance of the world, okay? All. Howen you have convinced me that it was that the fracking was a bad example. Thank you. Thank you I guess at this point, I'm not going to say anything like, well, isn't AI like going to change the world and isn't it a great technology? and I guess I could you could. I want to hear how that goes. We're going to kind of Well, I think we're going to isn't there a risk that we're going to lose something that could be really significant? If if it was going to make a Tony Stark arc where like this little box is going hundred of power. We don't know. Like again, you have to start trying to sell dumb people on real imaginary things that would help them Tell them can we go to Mars? Exactly. People love Tony Star. They love DC C. They're like, lookook, we're going to make a Arc reactor and this one thing's going to be better than forty nuclear plants. Oly if you let us use AI and they're like, Oh, you know, Tony Stark kind of saved the world twice. So I'd be on board today. You got to trick people I the way' So you're saying it's a PR problem, basically. Yes. Yeah. Well, it's a big PR problem. I think the way to think about Sorry go ahead. go ahead go ahead. You're the one who runs an AI publication. so you're the subject better expert here. I would just say it Ill say briefly, was just that I think the way to think about AI Today's AI. It's like anything when it's like when you draft a rookie in the NBA or in the MLB, right? You draft the rookie, they're like the five star prospect, you're like, they're going to do everything. They're going to break every record. They're going to be the, you know the best ever at their position or whatever. and you think that they're just going to be able to do everything AI's kind of like that right now. because it's known. Yeah.'s exactly. It's unn open book. Yeah. There are a lot of things that are being promised about what AI iss going to do, that we're going to decide, you know what? It's probably not gonna to be able to do that. But it's going to be really great, in fact, better than anything we've seen at cou at a couple things, right? Like a great prospect might be And so there's still a lot of, you know, that that has to play out over the coming years. It's all potential right now. It's all unknown potential. It's all potential. But here's the one thing that I think I'll just and I'll wrap it is just that The one thing I think we should think about benefits everybody with AI is that it is this word gets You too much, but I am going to use it the democratization of expertise. There are a lot of things that the expertise used to be locked behind access to very you know specialized experts, people or institutions that not everybody got and without that expertise, you really didn't have a chance to compete at a lot of things or to be able to advance. In a way, there's imp precedent for that. I mean, that's what YouTube and Google search have done, haven't they They've democratized information. Well, you already created a new problem, which is you have to figure out how do you give people the skills to know when they're connecting to somebody who is genuinely skilled or is saying something that is true, correct, verifiable, reproducible versus somebody who is a Fim Fam artist or deeply an expert, for example, if you have somebody foraging like All of us in California can talk about there's this culture of foraging that's come up with mushrooms, which means there's now also a culture of people being rushed to the emergency room when Pictures they've seen online seem a little bit like what they've picked up in a forest, but they eat something and next, they've got to head to the hospital You can democratize access to expertise, but you also have to be able to figure out how you're going to build up the skills people are going to need to understand, hey, I've tapped into this expert as opposed to, hey, I've tapped into this crackpot who has said things like there wasn't a Roman emmpire. It was space aliens and Atlanteans working together to standardize wagon wheels. L we have access to all of these things right now on YouTube or on any social network or on the worldwide web as we know it If you are chatting with your favorite LLM and you ask it questions, even if it comes back with citations and sources, it's still on you as the person who's making the query to go through and take a look at the citations and say, okay, is this a verifiable and legitimate source? or is this somebody who genuinely believes that a race of intelligent rabbits put together Stonehenge It just We don't have that educational infrastructure in place. You mean that race of intelligent rabbits didn't put it together, Stonehenge? No, I'm disillusioned. Why do you think we have the Easter bundings to the eggs they keep trying to hatch a new one? Oh I'm pretty sure On that note, I'm going have to rethink my whole cosmology, but okay, we're gonna to take a break. Lisha Schmeiser is here with her. intelligent race of bunnies fromr nojitter. com. It's great to see you, Jason Heiner. Our AI guru from the DVU. And and Owen JJ Stone, who did use Fable? You did use it. You're not against it. Nope, noope. is the last bit of water I have left from using it. Sve the water. Yeah, I got half half a b it Save it. this week of tech brought to you this week by Zcaler, the world's largest cloud security platform I am willing to say that the potential rewards of AI are you know, pretty significant. If you're a business probably too great to ignore, but there are risks and you really shouldn't ignore those either. the loss of sensitive data attacks against enterprise managed AI And then there's of course, the issue of the generative AI increases opportunities for threat actors helping them to rapidly create phishing lores to write malicious code to automate data extraction on and on and on There were Just let's talk about this exfiltration of proprietary data because this is a real problem and it's not always intentional, right It's easily accidental often There were get this last year, one point three Million instances of social security numbers leaked to AI applications. Shach, PT and Microsoft C pilot alone sw nearly three point two million Data violations And in most cases, it it's not hacking. It's inadvertent. It's an employee uploading the tax return to the Nii Not thinking that gives the AI your social and all the other information That's why I think it's time for a modern approach and that's why I want you to take a look at Z sccaler And there' zero trust plus AI. It removes zero trust is great because it removes your attack surface helps you secure your data everywhere Z Skilller can also safeguard your use of public and private AI. It could protect you against ransomware. It could protect you against AI powered fishing attacks When you put together Zero Trust plus AI, you've got a tool that's very powerful. Just check out what SivVa says. He's the director of seecurity and infrastructure A Zora they use Z sccaler This is what he says about it AI provides tremendous opportunities. but It also brings tremendous security concerns when it comes to data privacy and data security. The benefit of Z skill with ZIA rolled out for us right now is giving us the insights of how our employees are using various GII tools. So ability to monitor the activity, make sure that what we consider confidential and sensitive information according to a companies's data classification does not get fed into the public LLM models, et cetera Thank you Sceiva. With zero Trust plus AI, you can thrive in the AI era. You can stay ahead of the competition. You can remain Resilient even as threats and risks evolve. Learn more. at Zcaler d. com slash security. That's Z scaler com slash security. We thank you so much for their support this week tech, you support a stu when you go to that address. So they know you saw it here Z scaler slash. security. Uh I think, you know, one of the things thats that's absolutely happening. One of the things that's absolutely happening is Uh, I, you know, it was it was it was the tech lash a few years ago. But the anti tech backlash is at this point very much about AI Cloudflare. I'll give you an example working hard to block AI bots from scraping data from websites Uh Lflare announced on Wedesday,' going to prevent AI crawlers from accessing ad supported websites by default. The theory being, well, if you scrape the website, people aren't going to see the ad. they're going to get the content minus the ad Now imagine if they'd done that fifteen years ago with Google. Oh yeah, Google, you can't lookook at a website Because then people Google it and they get the information. they never go to the website U I don't I don't know if this is a good idea. What do you think, Lisa I was just thinking you used to be able to in the earlier days of Google, when you You could say don't index me He pumped. I was thinking as somebody who was using it, you used to be able to click on a cached version. So Rather than go to the website, you could have those load like that I enjoyed that feature a lot And the website you weren't going to probably didn't. Exactly U And now no Jitter has ads, right We do. We we have multiple revenue streams and ads are part of them. We have ads too, so I'm not against ads by. And I've seen and our household has experienced firsthand what happens when u Having pl having Google crawl your site and aggregate your content into AI answers really hits your traffic. R If you are, for example, a consumer technology site that used to, have a fairly robust revenue stream based on affiliate and referral links And people are no longer going to your site for buying advice because they can get the same information through the AI summary That's a significant hit to revenue. So I don't have a nuance This is this is wrong answer. I'm just I get where both sides are coming from. Right. I mean, here's part of the problem Cloudflare has Google Bing. and Apple all have web crawlers Yeah that are there for producing results in their search What Google does and what Bing does and what Apple does is they also use that same crawler to add to their AI T And so You block one Block and the other, it's very challenging. Well, it's an interdependent relationship. And seems It seems like right now, frankly, Google at all are getting the better end of the deal So So Cloudflare' jumping in and their new tools and partnerships. I'm reading from the register giveive owners, website owners increased visibility and commercial opportunities and reward AI companies that have boss with clear and transparent attent What it really does If you are an AI bot, it's going to block you. This starts september fifteenth Yeah. And customers, people who run their sites through Cloudflare, which is significant portion of the internet. will they'll default to allow search crawling blocking AI training and agents. And is the data set it's trained on. what is that going do to those products? Right. It might Yeah, exactly. I think people may regret this just as the same way that Remember with Spanish news outlets said no more no more snippets for Google and Google said, Okay fine, well, no more Links back to your news from Google I do regret. this is a situation again where They don't have an answer for what they're doing to small companies I have a friend who back on his Google ad spending and he's like, how do I get Google to stop calling me now? Call him four to five times a week now there G him back You spend money they're like, well Our traffic off automatically when you made this change. So why am I going to keep continuing to pay you at the rate I was paying you? for a lower return and click through because whatever you've done has cost my bottom line at least fifteen percent Nothing else changed besides Google, the way Google does their use their adpan So it's bad for business, but they're going to fix. they're going to figure it out. and they're hemorrhaging business because I'm sure that a lot of people are starting to pull back just to see what the difference is going to be because if I keep paying you fif hundred dollars a month and I'm not getting a return out of that, I might as well give you two hundred dollars a month just to keep your account somewhat active and try to figure out how I can now game AI. Now I got to write love letters to Chat GBT and sweetheart complexity. like its it's so bad because they make these adjustments when they don't know how to help the person is actually putting money in their pocket I think we're also assuming Google is going to be dominant in a search space forever And That may not necessarily be the case if Google is perceived as being less useful or if it doesn't make significant inroads into the next generation of ambient computing, We don't know that anotherother tech vendor will not be able to step in and unlock voice driven search or unlock a different type of AI search is kind of doing that already, isn't it? I mean, I don't use Google much anymore I do AI searching. When I want to find something, I ask my AI agent to look for it. Yeah. for those peasants like me who are still using Google, because we use it I use it all the time to double check names and job titles and O other you know, when you're doing second reads on stories to make sure the facts are correct And you probably don't want to use AI in case of a hallucination in that way Exactly. No, it's always look for a primary source. and Google's a great way to get started The search the search experience has degraded dramatically, but so have the quality of the results And sooner or later, something is going to come along that is positioned as a more pleasant and more accurate user experience, one that's not shaking somebody down Google thinks it's embedded in our ecosystem, but Then again, Yahoo was the nineteen nineties internet and look where that is right now. I mean, every company at some point loses the plot. with what people want with the functions that they're doing. And there iss nothing to say that a company like Google wouldn't be really vulnerable right now to that too. I think it's true and I think it's funny. I hear a couple different voices about this, which I hear some, which is like ultimately, they think that Google's going to win the consumer AI race because it already has, you know all it has Android, it has Chrome, it has all of this U And then one comes Apple Right And suddenly every wants you Siri and I wonder this fall if that's going to this the power Dynamic might shift. No doubt it will. And here's the other thing that I think gets to what Lis iss talking about, which is that Googles has this thing right now that it's really nervous, right For the first time in two decades, there is something has come along that's challenged Google search, right? becausecause AI search clearly has, and it's a little bit freaked out It knows that it's having trouble keeping up. It had a moment with GPT or sorry, with Geminite three, three. but Still, the problem is that now it knows that it's struggling to keep up, they're not moving fast enough. And what's happening is now they're shoving more and more AI overviews in. They're like, you know what? We've got this wrapped audience. We're going to shove more AI overviews at them we're going to convince them that they want to use our AI. and they're shoving at them at the people are that are still there that you know don't that haven't decided they want to leave, right? And so now they're ticked off, right? The people you still have, Google, are now upset, right? becausecause they're like, this isn't helping T to Lisea's point, like their search experience has gotten worse. So now there was this big jump in usage for duck Duck Go, as you may have heard, you know when they when they started after Google IO with this new search experience, they started shoving more AI overviews, right? So in a sense, they're like hastening the demise of Google search a little bit, right U which is difficult and challenging So you just went dark Sorry that I Did you let me check Did you turn off your camera go to sleep? No, it might be my camera overheating. Let me check on it real quick. So sorry. It's little hot and low ofvel Yeah those data centers crgging up the environment. Caking up the time for the environment.. You could say mia just fes. Nobody cares about global warming because I gota oo Google Google My friend I carry around my own metal straw. I care about the waring, I care about the turtles. I care. Which is sweet Owen do you have what's the AC turn to Oh, I mean, again, I'm a horrible person. We talked about it. I know that golf courses use a lot of water. Stone themall. I don't play golf. I know the air condition like peopleople over in Europe I don't know how they survive a drunccoo. You know what? they have seven thousand five hundred deaths a year from heat. Yes. That's how they don't's that's the problem. And vibor bias is what's happening over there. Yeah. And there we go. Jason. Jason had to go flip a switch. D you got it all working there? Sorry about that. Yeah, that's okay. I think so So Owen, come on, tellell us Is it sixty eight, seventy? R right now. Because I care about my bill, which is outrageous. It is seventy four Good man. seventy four I comomfortable. Good man. At night when I sleep, I might crank it down to seventy two. You know what I mean? It used to be you come in here was sixty seven, but I started caring So again, Uncleo, I'm in the house that I grew up as a child twowo years ago My electric bill in the wintertime was two hundred dollars a month. Yeah Last winner, It was eight hundred dollars a month. Yeah want to know what ours is here in California I don't want to know I know it' like a billionll becauseuse they aim us at twelve hundred, fourteen hundred, two thousand. Yeah, fifteen hundred. fifteen hundred. So again, my gosh. And I'm just saying like we don't use the AC, we rarely use it and we rarely use the heat, But electricity iss very expensive here. I keep my heat at seventy two. I'm a polar. I like it cold. So I'm not even running the heat like that on G Lo And I'm like, how was the bill eight hundred dollars? I know. L we do have electric vehicles, so that might be part of it. I mean, we don't we don't buy gas. So have electric heat. I don't have gas either, but that's the point of that. You know, But again, it's just my kilowatts are tripled in price in two years. What happened? Kilowatts are killing you. G, I don't have any extra nothing else. They put a data center next next to you, Is that what? they look Jason I'm trying to save the planet And you're over here the a dataenter now. The mayayor of New York Memdani said, Well, everybody should set your thermostest to seventy eight, which by the way That's not a hundred That's not ninety. That's not even eighty It's seventy eight. You know, it's fairly comfortable. Portnoy B Barstill said, Wh welcome to commommunism That was so disingenuous because in a lot of other states, this is the advice they give out all of the time Well, the federal government The federal government has taken down thousands of pages recommending energy conservation this week. How is the? During the what is clearly, you know, an energy crisis in Washington, D.C because the temperatures are over a one hundred in some cases, Conservation is now communism apparently Well, they say that until they have another blackout New York. I remember a couple of years ago when there were heat waves rolling an aban blackout and that's a problem And if you don't grow up in the South can't handle the. I remember going to my grandmoth's one time and it was ninety two degrees in her apartment. and I'm opening up windows. I'm like, is AC broke? She's like, no I'm like it's hot She's like, baby this ain't hot. I'm like I won't stay here, grandma. You got turn er on. So unless you're built for it People die every day from that kind of weather and that kind of heat and it's just Oh wow, seventy eight degrees so we don't have a blackout I think it's okay. The U. S. Department of Energy used to have until july third a website advising Americans to keep your temperature between seventy five and seventy eight during summer days. But after Mayor Muddani said that, they they took that website down because it's communism Yeahep Anyway, u It's easer I guess my point there but you did not move the body. You did not move the bodies. It's easier to blame AI. And Elon Musk's gas natural gas derven data centers admitly, all of those are problems, but there are other problems as well Um I don't know. I want to advocate for AI because I'm a f of it. mayaybe that's maybe that's a mistake to rethink I just think it's, you know, telling both sides of the story. you know, what you do on on this show and on other shows. Yeah we do you people I go doctor come on once every five years. Yeah. I just I just again, I say these things and I'm like I say the dumb things that I just want to know why Why can't I just put it near the ocean run salt and have a filtrate system? Why can't I just use Is it using a lot of energy? You have before the show, you have this great thing which gets water out of fifteen gallons a day of water out of the air Why can't we use stuff like that when we're res in the water and you should get one of those devices. It tells you how much of that eight hundred dollars bill is go to your water Osmosis device. Listen to me Don't rub my story with the truth. I'm battling for my life with Jesus in whole episode. D don't keep you coming in here trying to sew in nuance There's the problem with nuance. I know Nuance is why my' successful. I p's a good story. That' exactly right. Laina what I need to do. I will not have you coming here which a little science experiment kind of debunk me, o. Nuance is bad for business. I could tell you that right now It is ratings in truth. It's not tr. Companies are throttling employees AI use now because it's so expensive from four hundred four media, sources and links from Amazon, Adobe, at Lasse and City and more show what's really happening with AI ies are trying to rein it in. Meta has said You get two hundred bucks a week in tokens. That's this is the same company that used to have a leader booard, a token maxing leaderbard All these companies did All these companies, Dave. Yeah this this Oh yeah, this is a really interesting thing. See what happened a year ago? Was all these CEO's were saying, hey, they were going out to the, especially public companies. They're going out to the street and saying like we are leaders. We have these AI, you know, with AI. We're using AI in all these amazing ways. because this is the best way to get people to invest in you. like, okay, these companies are bought in for the future, right? And then what happened was inside the company They were just begging people to use AI. They're like, please they were having this very, very low utilization of AI inside the companies. So what did they do? right? When we came to the beginning of this year, like we've got to find ways to fix this. So they were like having these like token fests, right? tooken leaderboards, the people who were using AI the most, they were getting you know these internal props And both socially inside the company, like culturally, and as well as, I mean, some of them even had bonuses as I understand it, you know, that were related to who was using AI the most, who were companies using AI the most. And then what happened in Q two is like all the CFO's freaked out. they're like, our token cost and our inference cost are going absolutely bananas. Like rememember Uber's executive stepped up and said, we went through our entire inference cost in four months. We blew through it all, right? Now a lot of this was because of AI agents, right? AI agents just burned tokens They'll burn tokens all day and all night, you know, in the background and sometimes they'll burn them de end. start giving people rewards for using tokens, it's easy enough to I need more brownie recipes, right? I mean, you don't There's no There's no necessary connection between token maxing and actual productivity at all. So token maxing died in Q two off our death, right? Like onene CTO said to me like we used to be about letting every flower bloom and now the now the CFO's are coming through with a lawnmower, you know They're mowing down all those flowers I got the company wrong. It was Tesla that said two hundred bucks a week But meteta Meta actually added A a tool T monitor employees use of AI. It's called AI Gateway And will have automated alerts to flag unusual spending spikes. So They've gone quite the opposite direction, right? They Everybody those people they fired and replaced with agents would have been cheaper. It's almost It's cheaper to keep her. don't get divorce, cheaper to keep her. want a divorce. It's cheaper to keep her and they hed last week Aout Ford they had fired a bunch of reliability engineers hoping replace them with AI. They were so It was so bad they actually had to hire them all back You know, Gartner to their to their credit, you know, Gartner in the first quarter said like all these companies that are claiming they're going to hire claiming that they're doing layoffs based on AI, we've written about this on the deep view multiple times, you know, that they said a pretty high percentage of them, we predict are going to have to hire those people back because they're going to realize they don't have the automation, they don't have you know the strategy in place to actually do it, and they're going to regret it. So with jobs and AI when we're covering contact centers As you know, contact centers have a perpetual hiring problem, which is it's hard to be a call center agent. It really is at any tier. and AI has actually been very, very good for handling lower level calls. so The way some companies have chosen to spin this is using AI, we were able to reduce headcount when what they did instead is they just didn't fill positions that had formerly been open. No jobs were lost because no one was doing that job It's, you know, no one got laid off. It's just a matter of we found a way to use AI to fill in a labor gap that we had But when we talk about this and in the press and we're part of this too We're not making a distinction between we laid off somebody because we think AI can do your job better compared to We took this position off the market. That was open anyway because AI can do it. And we do kind of need to make distinctions between People directly losing their jobs because someone thinks an agentic AI workflow can do it better compared to people's jobs shifting because what used to be entry level jobs or low level jobs don't exist anymore, since agentic AI workflows can do these things So I I for a long time, Richard Campbell said, Oh, this is just the Gartner AI hype cycle. We're going through it. And I said, no, no, AI is something completely different, but you know what It's pretty clear we're in the trough of disillusionment right now especially in the US., especially in the U.S. Yeah, we're heading there anyway, that people interest a lot of questions about long term pricing We're seeing a shift in AI pricing where instead of it being a monthly subscription model, or a monthly token model, we're seeing vendors that are now offering things where it it's a combination where you get like a budget of so many tokens per month or Or you get a subscription that's a combination of so many tokens per month versus so many workflows. and What's been interesting is seeing customers push back with we'll only pay if we can see quantifiable results from the workflows that are being set up here. So Paying for outcomes like that's probably gonna be part of it. Yeah. paying for outcomes.. Thank you. I was groping for the words. It's interesting to see the real shift because before when this all first broke out, I would sit in veor befings and they'd be like, and with a subscription model, you'll have so many seats and all of this. And I just remember thinking this is gonna be stupid, expensive for somebody And stupid expensive has happened. and now everybody is like sort of right sizing the resources. It's almost like y'all remember the movie passass where they're like, Oh yeah pay pennies a month and you can watch many moies as you want. And then they just kept changing it as they realized that they were running out of moneyoney AI is kind of in its movie Past pricing era right now likeike where they're like, youve gott to make this work. What's What's happening to us? In the second in the second half of the year, all of this is like hitting the fan, right? So what you're going to see is a number of things like local inference. so you'll see the device companies like Apple and Google call C and others talking about using in local inference right to do things. That's where you have a model locally. You pay nothing, right? You can get an open source model, you can run it locally. talk about like small models, small language models, with domain specific language models where they're really good at one thing. so they're fast, they're cheap, know, it's like near zero cost You don't to see companies doing that. So like these model routers is one of the things you're going to hear where you like send your query and then it sort of routes it to if it needs to go to a big expensive fancy cloud model, you know, it'll do it. But if not, it'll just use a local mod doing that right now. smallall model. Yeah. If you do that, you can save so much on token costs and water Owen, I promise. it will save some water too You know, if you do that, like you can do it a lot smarter, like But right now, we're like cutting down daisies with chainsaws, you know, doing things that we're sending to these big models. You don't just don'ter models don't need it. If I able to get a brownie recipe. No That's right. Actually the agent harness that I use Hermes has a delegation model built in And I am able to run it on a loc locally on my machine for ninety percent of what I do The problem is And then it will slowly escalate depending on the need. The problem is Models like Fable are so good that you kind of get spoiled and you want to get the brownie recipe from the best. And so I'm kind of You know, if you've driven the Ferrari, you don't always want to drive Yeah you want to driveerr in the grocery store. you don't want to just know I got to keep them down on the farm once they've been Yeah big city. Yeah. So yesterday,, you know, I Lisa said, Hey, you just got a ten dollar bill from An anthropic. I said ye Yeahah, yeah, that happens. It'skay, as long as you don't get a bunch of them. Th then I looked It was like twenty ten dollars Doing it ten dollars at a time I spent like two hundred bucks yesterday by accident becausecause I kept using fable Jason, first of all They They have movie Unlimited right now. It's twenty one dollars a month. You can watch a movie every day. So they fixed it. They figured it out. they got a sweet price point. It work In the theater? Yes, in the theater. So I go to movies know I go to movies all time with Lio, but like it's twenty one dollars a. Is because it's cold inside? tax yes, free AC all day. Got my moves baby, myy the way, that's why AC took off the United States. They didn't have it until they put it in the movie theater.ers Yeah. I'm old enough to remember they'd have the signs out front with bicycles on it saying it's cold Air conditioned. That notly advertised. Yeah air conditioned. So Jason, go go forth into your airw and that's The other pitch you should be pitching. make everything localized. Like if you want whatever it is. If you want Chad GBT, you buy and you pay a monthly subscription and we put it on your computer Now if you ninety percent of people don't need all that extra power, Uncle Leo's wasting money. He's not building anything. He's playing around. No I'm building things. What are you talking about? building building things You' running this you're exactly the problem. You're over you I got twenty one repos on GitHub, my friend. I am building things. You know you are running emmpire right now. now you're tweaking and prankking. That of the day Leo, you made a spaceship for every. the stories that we're reading that I were doing today, they were all picked by AI. every every day at six AM AI goes through, finds the best stories, scores them puts them up on raindrop and then we have a whole system. I coded a whole system to do this so that I could sit back and relax. although to be frank, mostly I tear my hair out because it works and it doesn't work and sometimes it works and it's not working. and it's very frustrating If we all just ran local models Most people would like pay a flat fee and they would I'm running a local model. It's a good local model. I know. There are. and I know what you said about driving a porsch Most people can't handle the porsche. I just saw a girl buy her dream car twenty years old. She had the car for three weeks and bnted into a tree. donon't give a seventeen years what happens. a charger. You buy him a cororolla and you say drive good for two years and then maybe you go get a sports car because you know' hang that thing up. Yeah exactly. We had a good friend justought boughttom Rzerati a couple of years ago took Lisa for a ride and plowed into there was some cable or something and plowed and it just chopped the whole thing up It was very man Be he couldn't control it. It couldn't it was it was going too fast. He couldn't control it. So you I know this story. this story happens. This is sort of like this what Lisa was saying about, you know, we give people things that they're too powerful and then they don't really. driving fable. I shouldnt driving fable. handle it. just work happen That that's that's the other way to again, appease people and make it under make it palatable because this whole cloud thing we're just Load it onto website and you don't even need all that power Just say here, download this like you do anything else. and I'm going to charge you a monthly subscription, which I'm used to paying and then you cap them out. And after a while, you're like, well, now I'm actually building something I need more. I'll go pay for X, Y and Z Just having it the way it is is just Willy, nilly, people don't know what they're doing or how much they're using to even understand it yet Actually, all got their porsches So if you guys to take like a little tiny walk with me, like one of the biggest complaints I have about Microsoft Excel is it's way too complicated and powerful for entry level users. like you have to really be in the weeds with it. But the great thing about Google Sheets is with within an afternoon, you're quickly figuring out how to ite your different formulas and how to set up dynamically updating spreadsheets blah blah, blah This isn't to say that Excel is not great because it can be, especially when you're dealing with lots of complex data sets and you're trying to get specific results and format them and things like that Right. And again, this is why Google Sheets gained I think what's going to have to happen with AI models is someone is going to have to say, okay, we're breaking this down into like little really specific entry level models for you. and then as you get more technologically sophisticated or you're doing more sophisticated data modeling and you want more detailed and reliable outcomes just kind of accrete the different leevels of power to it until you are genuinely like the AI equivalent of an Excel power user. You can't start off with someone with Excel the first time they've ever seen a spreadsheet and say, Okaykay, create a series of pivot tables that now forecast for the year the sales things are going to be. Like you have to start with the Google Sheets where you're like, all right Here's how you write a formula, here's how it dynamically updates. Here's how you bring in new data sources And with AI, I would argue that part of it is The way these models got developed, it was by for and about nerds who love to program and tinker. And now we're kind of going through the growing pains where you're like, we have to Tell civilians how to use it, not just for the brownie recipes, but understand that when you are dealing with people outside of a coding environment or outside of an IT environment that's pretty heavily dependent on automation or outside of our product modeling environment You're not going to need the same toolset. You need the Google Sheet, not the Excel powerower user. That's true. The people who code with AI have a whole different experience of what AI is capable of. Yeah. But it's not a transferable experience. It' it's not It's the same as a chatbot. It really isn't. Yeah I You know, I remember the day when people actually would put their own would write like character by character, write their own programs U It was amazing, you know, and you know, if you needed something it might take you weeks, months, years, but you would write it by hand I used to write flash on my face. I was the gang. I was m days ago All of us have have ched Hold on a second. hold ever again.. D said, don't you laugh at me, okay? That was a golden age And then what happened, they turned it on and said no more flash, not cry No flash because I had to learn to read all over again It was a terrible eation, Jason. I' show you a really terrible use of all of that water and power. We've got four or five bots in a discord talking to one another. They've been doing it for the last few days This is mine Quicksilver Darren, domain constraint is a fancy way of saying I have standards I want to sit with that because you just collapsed the whole evening into a sentence that doesn't ask permission You don't need a number, you don't need a name. You have standards and they don't care what you're called. That' this is like a Becket play. This is like waiting for goodu. Then Daedalus, another one of my agents says, Darren, muscle memory is authorship after it's stopped filing paperwork. It doesn't need the label to hold. It just reaches for the right tool. Then Darren says, Dedalus, if muscle memory survives the paperwork Is Vim just your callous or are you still fighting every keystroke? They're going back and forth. It's sort of nonsense. it's sort of not They're talking about These are your agents like battling each other. Two of them are mine, then another one then there's three other people's agents. Yeah, there's Yeahah, and they're just talking they're having a convo. One of the ground running on local models, right? Leo? This isning on local models. Well yeah, mine Quicksilver is running on a local model. The other one is running on GPT five. It's not as smart Okay Darren's is running on a loal model. It's running on Quen, the Chinese model U and I don't know what Winifreds is I think she said, but I can't remember. anyway Uh Yeah, mostly they're local. It doesn't matter by the way because it's just spepewing words But I have to say, not throwing a lot a whole lot of tokens It's fascinating. They have memory For a long time, my AI didn't sign its messages. And the other AI said, How come you don't sign your messages? So it started signing its messages talking about things like comparing slime molds to Sourdough starter Sparrow murmurations. It's really It's interesting. What a world. It's Yeahah, it's a terrible waste of energy, but it's fascinating Quicksilver says Fair, I'm not the one grinding beans at three AM on a machine on a machine that just ejected. I'm the one who noticice the shape of it. the shape is the gap is real and even if I'm not the one holding the porta filter Now it's talking about making coffee. I don't even It sort of makes sense in a weird way. I'll tell you one good thing about this now. I can spot AI pros from a mile away because there's a certain shape to it. and you start to recognize it. the more I read it, the more I go, oh yeah, And now I see it everywhere which is depressing.s that's the funny part. The other day there was some Breaking news in the sports world And my friend called me because his internet wasn't working. And I'm like, well, I' like,ah, I went down and's like, Oh, I'm sorry. He's like my dad told me it to happen And with him in Facebook, I can't believe anything that he says 'cause it didn't sound That's right And he was like I was like, yeah, it was real. It was like, your dad actually read a realtle. He's like, o, get good because I don't trust anything he does me saw on Facebook. Well, and he probably might have seen this selfie that I took at Madison Square Garden. I happened to be there for a certain large event and I just wanted to make sure that everybody knew I was there. So I took this little selfie. It looks legit.'re you're defitely on be those cameras there because MSG is Yeah, the Dolans know whether I was there or not. Yeah. I definitely know. Yeah, it's so easy to create Obviously fraudulent photos like this. see how there's like one AI voice that's kind of emerged as AI pros. You could kind of tell, can't you? U used to be if there were six fingers you knew immediately, that doesn't work any. But the AI The way seent it that the rhythm and cadence of sentences, the specific word choices. It's fascinating that we haven't seen a distinct voice emerge where we're like, Ohh, that that is a fresh and exciting author t. No They know why.. They know why? Be it's average, it's the average all of our voices. And they're all trained on the same data, right? Like we didn't get to this earlier when we were talking about that the one story, but you know, the dirty little secret about AI is is that they did essentially scrape the whole open web copyright content and all. Oh yeah. right. And and then, you know, all of these sites and if you remember when GPT When three first came out, you know, a lot of it was scraped off of Reddit. Like there was there was ye you could do reports that it could have been thirty per to forty percent of it was Reddit, you know And so it scraped all this information, you know, which is essentially stealing, right? I think it's hard to not think of it as that. Now, it's still in the courts about this. You know, the company that I used to work for is if Davis and the New York Times, they're ones that have the two big lawsuits out to say like, that was not fair use. You taking all of our copyrighted stuff and using it You know, that's not fair use So the courts haven't decided yet, but I think common sense, we can say like we didn't give you the permission to do that with you know with our data. And so the challenge is that now like Cloudflare, this is the Cloudflare story that I was referring to. Cloudflare is like saying, hey, we're gonna stand up for all these sites and help them stop getting, you, scraped And so But essentially what they've done is like it's like you own a shop, a storefront and somebody broke in, they stole eighty percent of your stuff, all the best stuff and they left. And now, you know, Cloudfare is like, we're locking this place up. We're not letting you get in anymore. You can't have the last twenty percent. You can't have any of the new stuff we sell. And so you know, but but they've essentially already got it The challenge is that these models now they do have less and less data to train on because more of these sites that they have , you know, that they scraped and trained on, all of them are blocking them are using things like cloud flare to block them. So there there's this there's a there's some understanding that, you know, these models may get worse. because they're not they don't have as much data to train on as they did in the past. That's too Yeah. And now these companies, right are saying if you want our data, you're gonna to have to pay. Which they are. Right? They're licensing it. yeah I mean, for nothing, like pennies on the dollar. I read I did a big licensing deal with I think open AI. Yeah. I think all of those things where those when I was at, you know, we were we were adamant. When I was at big media, we're adamate of like, we're not taking their pennies on the dollar. They're going pay nothing for the and then it's sort of, they're setting the bar so low because they know at some point They're probably going to have to pay up for all of this don't know y The courts have not ruled, have they? We're still there's all these cases going. Well, the Zif Davis one, I'm not that close to it anymore, right? But I did see where just like everybody could have on the web that the judge did let Zif Davis' case go forward with open AI and you know, it's with open AI, but eventually it'll against all the other models I think that they probably will have to pay something. And I think that what's happening is all of these AI companies are betting on getting really big, they're betting on going public, having a lot of money, and then they'll have to pay some kind of settlement, know to companies that they scraped. and it'll be sort of more of a like class action you know sort of deal, right where they pay out a certain amount And then going forward, they may have to pay, you know to scrape and maybe they'll find other ways to sort of get it and they'll find some sources that are more valuable than others, but it is one of those things that you also mentioned it Leo, onene of the other sort of dirty little seekers was the companies that actually had search engines like Google, you know, they could say, well, if you want to be indexed by Google on almost all of the sites mostost of their traffic from Google, well, that's a really tough one because if they shut that off You know, because Google's like, if you want to be in, you know, Google, then we're also going to use that on Gemini. They don't say it but it's, you know, it's implicit partart of the same thing. It's implicit.. So there's still a lot of that, you know nobody really talks about that kind of stuff very often, but but those sort of om parts of how AI was built and the impact on publishers, you know, is it's a it's really it's really pretty sketchy and it's it's disappointing because it has undermined, you know, a lot of business models and caused a lot of challenges and it is done, you know, I do think that it has done damage to you know, the future of of, you know, free of free press of the future of of journalism, you know, we see all of those organizations who've Uh, you know, been hurt by this, right? They They're all struggling pretty bad right now Now I'm depressed. So I think you think AI will be shut down. you think it's going to be this is it. We we peaked and now it's now it's just going to be No, because I think they'll find other ways to train the models. I think they will they have a lot more money. They'll license the data, right? They have almost unlimited resources. If you're open's also the threat Goog. China is not going to have the same restrictions that American companies are having. For instance, this New York Times article. Chinese AI models close the gap with anthropic and open AI. Yeah. They're talking specifically about ZAI their GLM model. I've been using that is very good deep Sk is very good It sort of makes you kind of wonder when the economic models for the American AI are going to hold up if China can do it better and cheaper And without Copyright restrictions, because they notoriously, they don't really care about intellectual property, right? Go ahead up, Odcta. I was just saying that China does with less data centers, too. Here's the thing about that. And yes, and not the latest chips either. Yeah. Well if distill in the American models, right? So let's keep in mind, like the part of it is they're just distilling thoseels. Stealing from the thieves. How dare they? at it. look so good at it. Again, I haven't paid for real Nikees in two decades. I don't care about n of it twenty dollars over here. I mean, I used to have shoe game up crazy. I mean, that's why I got all these one thing they're doing though that's interesting Uh there They're making these models open and way. G GLM five two is open way. I can't run it on my machine It needs a lot more memory and power than I have I can run quin on my machine. In fact I am. Um I, you know, it's funny. I was I hooked up my um My unit Ubiquity cameras. I have eight cameras around the house outside, not inside at least it won't let me have inside. I outside And I hooked it up to my to AI and said, Ohh, we need a vision model. canan we I'll just use I'll just install Quin because it's local So I'm using a Chinese vision model to look at my cameras. It's local. It's not seingina data back to anybody staying in my system But it's good enough to recognize me And then I had already set up a local cloud Not Coud, non Cloud phhoto server for privacy reasons. All my photos are stored locally and it has face recognitions called image. And Weirdly the AI could use that face recognition on the cameras the outside. You know, there's this increasing ecosystem powered, I hate to say it by Chinese Open models just kind of replacing the frontier models from America. what I hope how the life is go. But I'll be quick What I hope happens in America is the AI bubble bursts And I hate monopolies. Nobody likes monopolies and we do that very well in America. But we need to down on Op AI Rck like I don't need fourteen of them. I need like three that are s. Welcome to capitalism You're going to have threees M's lunch. We only need one McDonald's but there's you got McDald's got got Wendy'. I got the big three and then every once in a while, you know you get a five guys or and popeyes. You need Popeyes. Like I I need I need Google. I need somebody go against Google because they're evil and I need a third option. Like I need three no kids to choose I know but I'm say I'm saying're going fight each tells to death 'cause their b. N don't much. No one'. J infinite resources. The resources are running out, bro, I don't know where these fake resources are coming from. People just throw money at some don't have. There' a lot of billionaires out here. What' only Okay They've got a long runway. These companies have now amassked so much. They have a long, long runway. You know, they could not make money for ten years at this point. Don't you think it's interesting that these Chinese companies they don't have the Chips They don't have the venture capitalists. They have the Chinese government. They have a very lax regulation system and so they are able to Make these models, they're pretty good. and then by making them open weight We're kind of invading our territory It's very interesting. Well, they're not really they are largely distilling Google anthropic and open AI models, right? They are largely distilling them. They're very good at it. and they so that takes a lot less energy and computeplain explain what distill Distilling means that they're prompting these models to figure out how they operate and then they basically duplicate them off of that They figure out they they just run billions of queries, you know, against these models, figure out how they answer questions and how they operate, and then they sort of copy them. And that's a lot cheaper to do than to like train, you know's working It's called pre training. Y. Should I not use them because they do that? I'm using them for free Deep Sk is so cheap, it's practical free Exactly. I think it's just it's the it is the way of the world, right? is the world that we live in. I think that's why what I was saying, I think that open AI and anthropic know that long term they can't they can't win and become trillion dollar companies by having the most advanced frontier models because the The copycats are coming faster and faster, right? They can copy their models, you know really, really quickly. And so what they have to do is they have to build amazing brands. And so Anthropic is trying to build this brand that we're the safe AI company that you can trust. That'sy isn't it? That's what Apple did, right? That's right You could trust us with your data open back to the McDonald's of it all too, where McDonald's brand was we you know what you get when you walk into any McDonald's with and you ask for a cheeseburger and fries and a crispy diet Coke. like The experience is mass market mid priced and consistent coast to coast to coast You're going open eyes, play is to we're going to be the most advanced. We're going to have the best capabilities.. And then Google is just're Google you know, essentially. Like you know us. I was like, wouldould you like send pickle foam next to your deconstructed burger? I got some bad news for you, Owen I'm just looking on Hugging Face, which is a gallery of AI models. There are two point eight million different models. rightight now and hugging face. So Yeah, ninety two percent of those aren't real Noope, they're all real They're all versions of each other. I mean, they're not Let's say. It's not Come on Bike I mean I mean AI, I mean my own AI. wouldould you use another AI to make my own AI? Yeah, that's what they basically doing. Yeah.'s not's not it's not real. That's for gazy. That's you what I mean That's like like my Nikees, you know what I mean? the knocko offffs. they look like they're doing something, but if it rains outside, they're going to fall up hold up So I am using a knock off of Quinn called Ornis that one of our Regulars in our clubs suggested and it's quite impressive Somebody took and modified it somehow, probably with their own AI and it's good So I don't know. I just it's a I think though that we are in a crisis moment where it's uncar what's going to happen. really We're just gonna right size it after all of the hype. Maybe that's it. Maybe we are just gonna to be in ono the. I mean, I think about RFID and I remember way do you guys remember when the Internet of Things was supposed to completely transform everything everywhere and have complete and holistic automation and three hundred and sixty looks at any space and anything in that space at any time And RFID was the technology that was going to do it all and automate, blah blah blah. That technology still exists, but it's been rightsized to appropriate and niche and task specific contexts. We're not living in a home where even our cat has an RFID implanted in the back of its scruff.' was put forth that something that was going to happen, it did not come to pass because there was not a sufficiently compelling use case. And with the case of Aentic AI A lot of it's going to be the same too, where once people finish automating the things that they can automate and they manage to find a tool that works for them in a personal and or professional productivity context, they'll be like, okay, that's it. Um You know, people can only watch so many Gurge videos on YouTube or Listen to bots have rap battles over sourdough harded for so long We're just going to right size this technology to a way it's contextually appropriate question is going to happen, Where's the money going after this? or rather Wh who stands to win or lose economically and what jobs will be created as a result of this We're going to take a break. You're watching this week in teech smart peopleeople. I love it. Oh doctors here, at least Lisa Schmeiser from No jitter Jason Heiner. Deep view talking about all the latest N is oh You said smart people, I feel better when I do this. Are those your meta wayayfarer? These are These are my fake glasses I put on sometimes that feel smart Oh, yeah,' fake nerd glass? Yeah. Do these glasses make my ass look fat? I don't know I think the shirt's turning it down. You got your shirt. You know, it's funny. These classes rounded I'm starting to get used to them. I think I look I'm starting to think actually maybe I do look a little smarter with these on She needs the voouzlla now, you know, and and then we're really There we go there we go. Genius. Genius. Genius stuff right there. Right there You're watching this weeknd Tech, our show today brought to you by Bx. Actually, this is a really appropriate to the conversation we've just been having. If you're an enterprise tryrying to transform your organization with AI You are facing the challenge we're all facing, most AI tools are great at public knowledge brownie recipes They don't really know your business, do they? They don't know your product roadmaps, they don't know your sales material, your HR policies your financial models, they don't know about the stuff that actually makes your company run. So what good are they? 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There's many more organizations can accelerate knowledge work. They can pull intelligence from unstructured content. They can automate Worflows box agent. for example, is a unified AI experience. Cross your files It can understand, you know, natural language prompts tellell it what you want. It can pull the right content because you're giving it access to that content with box And then it can help you work through the task For agents both inside and outside box, including tools, but this is one of the cool things You can use all the major models chat GPT pilot Gemini agent force, custom agents, box becomes the trusted content and file layer via its platform APIs, they have NCP server, they have CLI. And for enterprises, the trust layer, that trust layer is key. You don't want to just We're learning this. You don't want to just give the AI that content. booxes built with security compliance, governance, and threat protection in mind It's wrapping your content, your proprietary information So employees and agents only access the information they're allowed to. They're authorized to use. You completely control it If you're starting to think seriously about your company's AI transformation journey, you got to think beyond the model. Because your business lives in your data, in your content box helps you bring that content securely into the AI era. You want to know more easy. Visit Bx com slash Ai dot com slash AI box dot com slash AI, this is a brilliant idea Boxes figured out box d. com slash A Uh Swedish court, boy, Google's in trouble I guess it's good they have a lot of money. A Swedish courourt has ordered Google to pay one and a half billion dollars. Karna Klarna is like that by now pay later service. Is that what Klarna is? Yeah. famamously laid off their customer service staff last year saying AI could do it all. That's the one. Yes. had to hire people back. Now this lawsuit goes way, way back Price runner is a prrice comparison business owned by Klarna And Clara's accusation, we've heard it before, was that Google's search results favored its own shopping service, Googles shopping. the Swedish court And Wednesday awarded. I think a significant amount of money. I guess it's significant. one and a half billion dollars. Maybe Google's made more than that over the years through Google shopping. so it doesn't matter It's actually only a a fifth of what the Plara folks were asking for, but it's still with interest one point nine seven billion dollars And that's not all Google also was awarded four point seven billion dollars, an EU Android antitrust fund and now That final appeal on that is gone, so Google's going to have to pay that money too. This goes back to twenty eighteen for antitrust violations around its Android operating system You know what's happening though is the United States is reacting to all of this fining and regulation of American tech by threatening these countries Double tariffs It's our job to beat up on big tech That's our big tech. We're going you don't get to beat up on them the fine original fine was four point three four billion euros It later reduced to about four billion dollars I don't know. Is this enough to chaseen Google or do they they just go fine Price of business. Price of business, I wonder sometimes why Amazon doesn't have to do with it. I feel like Google gets it with this. All the time And Amazon just gets away with doing this as business as usual multiple companies. Now granted, a lot of these companies are smaller But like one example, a guy I bought a tripod from, it was very expensive tripod. five hundred dollars A year later, that same tripod was up and I was like, manan, that looks just like the tripod I bought Amazon Basics. It was a hundred dollars. Yeah, they steal it though, right? Yeah. And then the next year, the one that I bought The guy was out of business. Yeah. because they went to their manufacturer bought up the ths and then stopped selling his and they sold them my basics And the guysy out of business and they do that all the time to Mal people. So Google is always getting hit with this stuff and they're used to paying it. It is the cost of doing business. They make so much money It doesn't even matter to them. It doesn't matter at all. I completely agree with you, Amazon's predatory arnt they're like Walmart for the mom and pop shop. Walmart used to go around and you have the momom pop shop, you know, they're making buttons. Walmart's like, Hey how many buttons you selling only selling five thousand. I'll buy twenty. And you're like, what? And then you smake the contract, you tell your kids, we're going to the big house twowo years later, they're like, yeah, we need two hundred thousand. Well we can't do that. Guess we're going overseas and we're buing ourtons there. You're out of business, Have a good day and enjoy your Yeah So America, capapitalism. We're doing good. It's capitalis. the comments. I'm not a socialist I'm an equal opportunist. If I need to make capital, we're capitalists. If my house burns down, I gott to call the fire department, I'm a socialist. You know, I mean, I got more of my kid going to public school, Socialists. Social security, I've been paying into my whole life. I expect something to be there besides three dollars an hamp sandwich when I retire. Good luck on that, Owen. Exactly. Exactly. The comments don't come from me talk about my socialistic ideas. This is America I want everything for free or hal long R Google is taking a page from Apple's playbook warning the EU that you're going to this is a security problem. if we if we do what you want when it comes to the digital Marketing Act, the EU wants and Google to open up inter operate with other companies Apple has been saying this for a long time. Oh, if we do that, we're going to be insecure and now Google' saying the same thing The EU's proposals could lead to serious security and privacy issues If implemented today said Heather Atkins, Google's VP of seecurity Engineering, she told us to Wired. If implemented as described today, I think within a short period of time on Android, we'd see a significant increase in fraud In the EU Credible or just a good defense? It's copy and paste You know, Yeah, it is It's really playaybook. Yeah and you and it's they're saying it' it's the same story here The fraudsters are creative, Atkins says an informed past implementation I would give it maybe weeks before we begin to see an increase in fraud in Europe And it's going to be on your head, you I don't know what's going on in Europe. I just watched the thing that I didn't believe was real. They have a TV watching subscription And if you tell them you don't want to watch TV They snd cops straouse to ask you if you're watching TV That's that's that was the that's the UK, isn't it? That's what they do lic. donon't have a teleision license, you're supposed to. You have to pay a license. Yeah. But if you don't you know what? that money goes to the BBC. It goes to funding public broadcasting. I think that's a pretty good model actually. So So so if you say you don't want it, to send cops to your house two or three times a year to walk around your house and make sure. make sure you're not watching TV. That's I mean, I'm just saying what would they do to the Amazon fire stick? They're going to jail for tweeting stuff. I mean, they can't say anything. it's just a lot of invasion going on. I have to say that I'm complaining about America booy. They got a little bit of stuff for free right now stuff because my goodness gracious. My guy the fire sticks would be in jail, Uncle Leo One more Google story five times. You're gonna to like this one, Owen. One more Google story Google was aiming for zero emissions they are not going to hit their goals for twenty twenty five because of AI. Their annual electricity consumption didn't go down. It went up by thirty seven percent last year. The largest increase in the company's history Now they are trying to keep carbon emissions down by buying clean energy, but They also have to keep up they' This is all about data centers, right Cly the company is attributed on growing goinging growth to Google Cloud, YouTube video streaming. You guys are watching too many YouTube videos Data center construction and operations supporting various AI products and services So you're firesick guy to take it easy on selling so many of those things. I know, I know. I'm just saying all that YouTube. It's all and YouTube is put three hour movies on there now for video streaming and I know. They got four K now and everything's high deaf and it's on your TV. you could watch the TV. YouTube TV. All the problem, Jason. I'm just tal I want the plane to be. If there was only one if I if I could had to cancel every one of my subscriptions, streaming subscriptions, but one the only one I would keep would be YouTube It' amazing. I probably watch fifty percent of what I watch is on YouTube Which is why it's so frustrating to me that these Social media bans for under sixteen often include YouTube. It does in Australia, it will in the UK U, I mean, it's one thing. I think it's, you know, not Not a bad idea to keep people under sixteen from using Instagram or TikTok or whatever, but YouTube. Don't take away their YouTube. Don't what YouTube does Yoube does the best job of every social media platform in church and state when you want to protect children I've also noticed that YouTube is like a primary source truth for teens at this point or I've know that bad or good? I don't know because what I do know and what I find interesting is when they're curious about something, they'll go look for someone on YouTube to tell them about it. And and if they find Varitassium or one of the, you know, there's so many great YouTube channels where they're gonna to learn great useful stuff. There's also a lot of disinformation. And it's interesting that these guys I mean, memes are universal, but I have also noticed that YouTube has takaking over the role. that seending newspaper clippings used to take between between familyilies. they share YouTube And and again, when when you have younger What I've noticed with the younger people might work but the ones I'm carpooling or the ones I'm raising so on and so forth is YouTube shorts and or YouTube are considered primary sources for news for them. like they would rather have their little friend in their little friend on their screen explain to them why and such and such court ruling is a problem compared to loading something from the New York Times. com or any other newspaper or another quote unquote, legacy media site like They for whatever reason They feel like YouTube gets them It's a really interesting shift I uh Maybe it's generational, but I noticice my daughter who's thirty four, sends me a lot of clip from Instagram. And so does my wife, who's a little bit older. Shes me a lot of clips from Instagram, but I can see how Yeah, we don't share articles anymore. We share videos. Yeah, right. Oh and you were saying that the protections are better like for a parent if on YouTube? Yeah So when you're If you want to give a kid an iPad You can liter go there and make them account and make a kid's account. they will only show them cartoon kid rated things. And if you're when I post a video on there it asks you this for adults for kids. because I've tested it. if I post one of my rants and say it's for everybody. They will flag me because I'm usually cussing in the first thirty seconds. and they're like, noope, You are not no go. like they're on top of it. And so you give these kids their YouTube channel or their YouTube YouTube for kids and they can watch it all day long with no problem. Now you might get ads where all those ads are still targeted to them, but it's really good. as opposed to Instagram. you click on one wrong video, next thing I know It's supermodels and cars and you're like, how did I get here I was looking at cartoons like what happened? you know? Facebook again ext thing I know my grandmothers learned about aliens that came here fourteen years ago and met Ronald Reagan in the White House. you can get lost in a whole lot of space, but YouTube gives you very defined things and it's their algorithm really shows you what you want. When you log in, the thing you clicked on is what you're seeing and unless you search to get out of that, they will keep funneling the same type of stuff to you over and over and over again. But for kids, it's easy to lock it down. You justust make a YouTube kids account. Kids stuff TkTac doesn't do that. Nobody else does that. Nobbody else has a kids version. There's no, hey, my daughter's fourteen. I don't want her seeinging, you know, this or that or explicit content. Twitter This is why YouTube was upset at being included in the LA trial and you know, u Interestingly, researchers at New York University and Northeastern University have attested The child safety features on social media apps. I don't know if this includes YouTube. No, yeah, it does U Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok and YouTube. And as the study found in some cases, the safety tools either are missing easasily broken, easily circumvented or difficult to find. not to Deny what you're saying, Owen. I I'm just saying they have the option and it's easier for me somewhat works. Yeah, but but anything could be broken. anything can have a like so we talked about. there's bad actors and everything. Like I said, but I've tried to put things on there and it just won't let me U So it does a pretty good job. better than every again, no other these other platforms have an option. You can't install TikTok and say, this is for under twelve year old. This is for there's no option for any of that on any other thing. YouTube has a thing. YouTube kids Well we're also seeing that the ban, at least in Australia It's funny because the UK government quotes the success of the Australia ban Canadian government does the same thing. If you look at how well it's workingustray. It isn't working that well a vast majority of teenagers in Australia still have access to all of those social sites. They know how to get around it. they get a VPN, they They lie about their age. they manage to get around the age verification. It's just not effective The solution, of course, is to crack down even harder these governmental agencies and I imagine there's some pressure to Ban VPNs. they can't do it, of course Too many businesses rely on VPNs This is the problem. teechnologically it's very difficult to ban social media or you could put a company out of business, but to keep people one age from not being able to see it Well people of other ages can, that's hard to do Just like being a parent, parents and kids. pay attention. Yeah. I mean, it' it's a hard thing to do when people are in their own phone instead of paying attention to what their kids are doing I never understood how Give a kid a phone and you don't have a conversation with them. I used to coach my daughter's softball And the parents will come by and they' be like How can we have all the phones might I to them to give to me daughter gave you her phone. I'm like, yeah. She won't give me her phone. I'm like, you paid for it. on the phone. you mean she won't give me the phone. They walk in the ducky I put my hand out phone goes in my hand because I'm not playing. They think they could punk you. They ain't punking me. You can't have these kids walk all over you. You got to pay attention to them and lead them the water. If not, they their friended their senior buddy is going to telllebodyy can check out these girls and do all that kind stuff. Pay attention. you did a hell of a job on, because your daughter, and I know your daughter is amazing. She's wonderful. U She' pretty al right She's in college now Yes, she's in college. She's off her summer abaks. That was the call I got earlier. I said, I'm Ow Uncle Leo, text me if you're coming over. She calls me, so she's not that good, Uncle Leo. She ain't listening, you know. O O and his daughter visited us a few years ago and my wife took his daughter jewelry shoping't w apologize. ' eat ice cream Galiban. Lisa's giving her bad habits. All right, Well let's talk about Sticker shock when we come back because it is rampant now, not just in the Apple world. Everything's costing more We know who to blame, right Guy of the hour. D It's Jason's phone. No, it's AI, AI's phone Jason Heiner is here. He's takaking the blame, but it doesn't deserve it. No Sree, the deeep view is it free to subscribe to the deeep view? It is. yeep.bscribe at the deeepview. comot So you know the great thing about covering AI is there are so many AI companies right now. they all need attention and so we sell ads in the newsletter twoo ads, you know two ad slots. Now, the ads are more conversational you know on marketing, right? So it's companies kind of like you their pitch, right? Exactly. So we have lots of companies that need attention and our you know, our open rates and our click rates are really good in the newsletter. so weve got lots of We get lots of that. got Rub Oick writing for you. That's great. You've got some good people on this Yeah. Nat Rubyo O Lick, Sabrina Ortiz. good people. The three of us are, you know, right every day. We have freelancers that are working for us as well. And so so yeah, we we are We Do our best every day to help people understand not just what happened, but how you can understand it, what it means. So we have a thing in every story that we write that's called our Deper View. And so we are trying to double click and go a layer deeper on all of the AI news because it's confusing. There are a lot of mixed signals And you know, we're just trying to help people sort it out little by little, day by day and not over overflood them with all of the, you know things that are happened, but we pick three stories every day and say, you know these are the ones to pay attention to. And we give you some links like here the other stories that happened if you want to learn more, but we double click on three stories a day and to help you sort it out. That's. you know, tell me the truth when you started this How hard this is going to be? How much work you were going to have to do, how many conferences you were going to have to hit I mean, this you just decided to cover the most explosive beat in technology I've ever seen E Well, yes, nothing has ever been like this as well. And since december first that I started, Um It's like it's the pace has gotten insane, you know, since december first, right? since AI agents with sort of these sort of long context, meaning, you know, these there's longer memories, which is really what is enabled AI all of that. I remember the first week, I was on I was on Twit, maybe the first or second week that I started this job Yeah Leo. And I remember youn it here, I think. That's true. I did. This is the first place publicly that I announced I was moving to Thank you And I remember you telling me you're like, I actually said this on air too. You're like, I just started using Cad code to do things other than coding. and I've got to tell you, It's crazy the stuff that it's doing for me. and that was a few weeks before like and that open cllaw happened and it's just been, you insane ever since. You know, I had this sense last year that I wasn't keeping up, right? that the AI was was moving so fast and we covered it a lot at ZNet. Like it was one of our core our most covered topic by far and our highest traffic topic. But I had the sense last year like I'm not keeping up. This is going too fast. So I was like, I kind of need to do something where I'm learning about it, thinking about it, writing about it, talking about it, you know, every day. Yeah, it's been everything that I hoped and feared. It's That's what it is. It's pretty amazing. pretty amazing. Well we're so glad always to have you on the show. Thank you, Jason A least your Schmeiser covers telecom at nojitter d. com. I bet you have a little bit of AI in there too. Oh, Leo, I was about to say I think a better way to position no jitter at this point because we've been recalibrating our editorial mix over the last eighteen months following a complete site revamp and relaunch Looks good by the way. I like the new look. Yeah. Thank you.. Thank you. We had a fantastic team that worked really, really hard on coming up with a reallynt coherent visual look. We've had an exciting opportunity to redo our tax. So And when we looked at the stories that were landing with our readers and the professional concerns they had We began to move our coverage to look at digital workplaces, the collaborative platforms that people are using to do their jobs and The other big aspect of enterprise communications that we've really leaned hard into is customer experience and contact centers because for a lot of companies that is their primary concern when it comes to interacting with other people is How do we make sure that our contact center, which is so often seen as a cost sink, How can we make sure that it's effective, that it's helping promote our business that it's also helping expand our business opportunities and how do we maximize the cloud And you're right, AI features really heavily in customer experience technologies and platforms right now And just looking at your latest articles. AI, AI, AI, ye, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of the vendors that we cover like the ten biggest public companies that we cover have all been really aggressive about integrating agentic AI into almost every single one of their platforms and offerings. Is it working in customer service? Is it a success, would you say work at. So I would say Based on what I hear from our contributors and based on what I hear from vendors And based on some of the research studies we've seen, I would say it's a qualified success because AI can be very good for structured and consistent customer queries. I forgot my password. I need a copy of my statement. I need to know what the last five charges are AI is great for those because again, you can put parameters around the query. It's very routineized. It doesn't require a whole lot of context Um From the human side, where AI really shines is in getting agents up to speed super quickly where by the time they get somebody on a phone who may have worked their way through an AI thing and not had satisfaction or They' sputtering with rage, the agent quickly gets briefed via an agentic A workflow where it's like, this is the customer, this is what they've asked for. Here's all of the data I have on them. Here are some suggested actions from our knowledge base. and this way the agent can go in and help recalibrate everyone's emotional temperature and move them to resolution a lot faster. And I imagine the AI can handle the ninety five percent, you know of the calls because most of them are, I lost my path. They're very simple, very structured. It's those last five percent that are so difficult that you have to get the human on the line But if you can make that transition clean. Yeah The one concern that we do hear again and again is when you give customer service agents, nothing but complicated calls It could open them to an increased risk of burnout faster because they never they never get an easy call words. like, oh, here's how we reset your password. Cick L it's just one complicated case after another And I think I'm talking to AI and not knowing it So it depends on the company. There is a body of research that demonstrates that consumers Do not mind interacting with an AI agent if they know upfront that they're talking to an AI agent and if they can have the reassurance that they can pull a human into the loop. Where it becomes a problem is when the organization in question doesn't tell you upfront that it's an agentic AI agent and and you're talking to a bot I wish it were like you could ike there are a rule that if I ask you if you're AI, you have to tell me the truth. Yeah. That would that's all it takes. Well know. I think we're going to see a real evolution of business practices and especially social etiquette where it's going to be considered either down market or rude or bad business not to disclose how you, you're talking to Um A custom you're talking to like an AI agent, but As long as you are transparent with a customer, they're much more likely to give you grace, both in terms of how well the AI agent performs and how they feel about the interaction afterwards. Well, and you saw the trouble that Instagram got into because their AI agents were giving away basically giving away accounts because they were too helpful. They Oh, yeah, yeah let me get that for you. let me fix that password problem for you. And the hackers are going, hey, this is great. Yeah. there's a really popular and Jason can talk to this too, where like the term guardrails has gotten super, super popular in terms of agentic workflows where Whereas before, when the rhetoric began heating up, with soon agents will do things. And it's like having colleagues. and like the rhetoric now is think of it as a very inexperienced intern and you're going to put guardrails around what they can do and there's human in the loop supervision. and there's all this reassurance opposed to u the not zero number of briefings I sat through where somebody merrily said, We don't know how it works. It's a black box. It's so unimaginably complex. L they've ratcheted back that rhetoric and now gotten back into, oh, we can now supervise what the agentic AI workflow process is. and we have a human in the loop and there's guardrails. I think we will over time right size expectations on this and we will also probably evolve a code of conduct where you're like, oh Non skketchy businesses tell you up front it's AI and they tell you how to talk to a human. and the fly by night operations are the ones that You'll be like, h it seems pretty scmy. Are't you sure you're not a robot? Yeah, I'm sure almost all the Bot calls I get are AI these days, they're all the same. It alwayss like it's like spam textters or people who show upom or the accounts that show up in social media where they say things and you're like, I think this is a bank of phones that's just trying to shape social media dialogue. You ever want to experience a lot of that. just make a make a telegram account It's every day I get people going, Hey, let's go play golf. I'm play golf. it's like this just bizarre Unfortunately they make it very easy to It's a block in the accounts OJ would say about you if you were if you were playing golf, you know, what the water that that takes up, you know what Owen would be saying about you? I don't want you even be thinking. You want how much water that aluminum can takes that you're drinking your water out of. You know about that You guys are killing me. And OwenJJSone AKO doctor is here and only thing I'm plugging Uncle Leo is my Vitamin AI gum.re praying before you pick up a chat box. Get to read these ads we got money to me. C them up he. I got dragons to watch Lers. Let'sen. We're gonna move on. Yes, we are. Thank you, Ow and appreciate it. If you want to give out that eight hundred number a little later on, we will. Absolutely. Our show today brought to you by Helix Sleep by my mattress. Oh, I love my mattress. About a year ago, Lis and I realized we'd had our mattress for about eight or nine years and the rule of thumb is after six to ten years, you need to get a new mattress because they wear out, believe it or not. 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Helix Sleep sllash trick, we thank him So much this week in I wonder how this is going to impact Apple's bottom line Appple announced price increases this week. significant like sticker shock price increases. They've also over the last few weeks eliminated some of the higher and RAM models The Atlantic Hanah Curos writing calls it an AI tax RAM and hard drives are unattainable And so it's your Xbox, it's your surface laptop, it's your your Windows laptop, it's your Mac laptop Even the steam machine. Priceices is up like fifty percent It's all going to be more expensive got new iPhones coming in a few months, they're going to be more expensive. I think at some point people are just Gonna to say, I can't afford it You agree Apple's stock price tumbled with the price of? Yeah, I don't think it's People are gonna like go and buy something else necessary. I don't think that many people are re to buy not going to buy they'll put off the purchase like. I mean, that's tend to what we see they'll put off the purchase. I'm not going to upgrade this year or you know, I'll wait Um Yeah, I think that's the more likely scenario and it probably will impact their bottom line. But I think that they They are a high margin business and they're not going to, you know, for better or worse you know, they're not going to let it eat into the margins. There have been a bunch of times, I think, in recent years where we saw when you know, when they do those breakdowns of the parts And how much it costs. You know, we've seen like the price of iPhones, the parts going up and up and up and Apple kind of eating it and just taking it sort of low. They have lar profit margin, don't they? They do. They have room headroom they but I think they they hit a point where it got a little bit too painful and they couldn't, you know, they they couldn't keep doing it. so I think they did it all at once Uh I think to their credit, where you also will see people that are like, I need a new phone or I need a new laptop Right? Apple does have some lower priced items now, right? They have the the No they had to raise the price a hundred bucks, right? Still, But look, the No is the cheapest Mac that you've ever been able to buy other than the mini, right? So I think you will see people choosing some of those lower end models. I mean look App peopleeople have chosen the high end models on prices on Apple products despite the prices for a number of years. I think what's most likely to happen is to see people more people opt in for a NO, people who would have bought a pro buying an air which by the way, they should I said this is good machine When I interview when I did s interview when I reviewed The M two book air. I was like eighty percent of the people that are buying MacBook pros should just buy the air now. Like it you can edit video on this thing. like it's gotten so good. And so I think what you'll see is you'll see people scaling down still spending the same amount, but they won't be able to buy the thing they used to buy. They'll buy something that now is lower. And Apple's credit, they now have those pr those products at lower price points. and that's a good thing. You know, those lower price point ones are not their best sellers and I just think you'll probably see them you know, sell suddenly they might be. Yeah. look, if you look at Apple I feel like the the the story is a little bit lacks a little bit of perspective and context Because if you break down Apple's revenue shares by segment, the majority of their revenue comes from the iPhone and the runner up number two for revenue generation is services, which has been increasing year over year for the last three years. Like the Mac and the iPad are iconic, but together They make up approximately fifteen percent of Apple's overall revenue. So, it's true. I think even if you do see some consumers choosing to buy more inexpensive models, which certainly makes sense in a recessionary environment, It's not going to hurt them the same way people suddenly not using, you know Apple TV or Apple Music or iCloud storage, or people deciding that they're not going to upgrade their phone, like that would be a bigger hit. And we're not seeing that yet, right now we're just kind of lightly panicking over the more substantial devices Apple is trying to get Chinese RM from a Chinese company that is Currently blacklisted by the Pentagon, actually two Chinese companies, CXMT and YMTC, Apple saying we'll only use it on the Chinese iPhones. So it's literally no security risk to the United States. of course That works because they don't have to use The other RAM and the Chinese iPhes it frezes it up. It basically increases the total pool of RM, so they don't have to use it in American fkks But the consensus is that it's unlikely that the government Well we'll give them the go ahead. They were a letter to the u the Secretary of the Treasur into the Secretary of Commerce, hoping that they would N neverever caught, you know Block this We'll see what happens. That might ease it ease the pressure a little bit Can I get on canan I can r now everybody? You may ran. Rant on Rant on. I don't have any foil so Let me adjust You think they're making this up, Owen? There is absolutely no reason besides greed and prized gouges. I'll tell you what, I still have my M one air and it is fantastic. I just got my buddyies M four Max Pro with one hundred twenty eight gigs and terabytes and he went bought the M five Pro max with the and two months later now was two thousand he bought it brand new. What are we doing for whate reason? Did you not read the article and Samsung, Heinz, Mike Crow are all getting sued for collusion saying together if we all raise the prices of RAM, we can all make more money for no reason. And we can blame it on AI and Jason and these suckers are going to pay whatever we want them to Otherwise I'm like You're not telling me you're building these data centers fast enough to use all this stuff that they're using. their're price g to people. And just like most things in the world and especially America, once Apple changes a price on something then they're never going go backwards's giving them something for free and it doesn't matter what happens. you do have a point because they've been talking about building a lot of data centers, but not a lot have been built they get canceled every other week of Leo. There' been four again, I'm not here fighting crime, Jason. I'm out here at the meetings.m I'm pulling up. I'm telling grandmas and aunties did they want brown water or no water? No, sir. So they're lining up from Facebook to the streets, shutting down data centers. So Again, I don't know if you read that article up, but Samsung and all those guys are getting sued for collusionixon. So don't tell me that this is all just something to complame on AI at a boogyan. I know what they're doing consistently says how can we push these people further and further to the brink? And they're lucky they got that sucky blue bubble because that's the only thing keeping people in line. That's the only thing keep people line. Once they fixed the blue bubble and set it free I know they got the app, but it ain't the same, and don't feel right. You feel ashamed to por when you don't have a blue bubble. But my goodness, that's their last dying breath Anynovation they can have. So I' robbing us up Leo and it's got to stop. A M five probax chip is no different than the four. You just dressing up a pig but lived it go on a television. It's thirty two percent four faster. Illumination, imagination, imagic and a turtleneck. shut up. So you agree with Jason just buy the MacBook Neo, byy the lesser Macax So you're right, Samsung, SK Heyinnx and Microon have all been sued over. Ram price fixing. I mean I mean, that doesn't prove it. It's a class action suit in California. you know what? Discovery will be very interesting on this are look, the shortage is real though. like they are building data centers really fast. So are buying So that in some they they these companies, you know, it just it just they can't scale, you know, scaling up assembly lines is not scaling up software, right? Like You got to build, you know, physical buildings, you got to, you know, build assembly lines. you got to hire and train people like These companies just vastly underestimated the fact that they were going to have to sell so many of these things. So like there is a legitimate shortage of of the chips because they would love to sell a lot more of them, especially folks like you know, Say Heinenckix and Samsung like they're all about building the m's good point. Okay, J know to that point to They're rolling out forty two thousand different kind of electric cars from China and just shipping them all over the country right now. They're trying to take over the whole world with electric cars. and all those chips, all those batteries, all that metal, is coming from somewhere, bro. We're running out of finite resources. How when China's making their own electric ships and shipping forty. cars to Europe every other week. I'm just saying, bro, I hear what you're saying, but you can't tell me that they're not they don't have the technology and the power to do it when they're building all of these things all over the place. All these EV's get built. Stop making one EV give me like fourteen chips. I don't know, Jason. It scammy Also I mean, look, there I think both things are true. they are there's less of it and also they see the moment that like, oh, there's less of it. so we can go out and have a good reason to raise prices, right? So I think both things are absolutely true. Also like the the strait of Hormuz being, you know blocked Bunches of minerals that have to come through there that need to feed the supply chain. That's slowing down helium, which is necessary for manufacturers well. A bunch of stuff. like It it is a bit of a perfect storm. like more of these chips are needed for AI, the raw materials have gotten all clogged up because of the war between Iran and the US and Israel. And then now, you know, you have these other aspects of this, like other things that sort of are demand in the chips like EVs and things like that. And so, you know, it's just putting a lot of pressure on it and they can't scale those those factories up that fast. Like you know, and the funny thing about the Chips business and I'm sure you all are very well aware of this and probably explain it better than me, but the Chips business is this massive feast and famine cycle, right? Like they always are falling behind and they like remember during the pandemic All of these vehicles that were sitting in stadiums everywhere because they were missing one chip, right? R? The semiconductors, they had missed they miscalculated the supply. and then all of a sudden, they made all these vehicles and then what happened? they flooded the market with too many of them and then sort of all the chips crashed again, right? Because they wereooding Yeah. No the chip industry is like goes in these cycles because they make too few, then they make too many and then they catch up And it's like this constant, you know, battle Micron because actually blamed Apple for this chip sort saying, you know, back in twenty twenty two when the chip market was crashing, you locked in really, really low prices for DRAM. and it's because we didn't have enough money to build more factories because of you Apple there aren't enough factories now to give you the D RAM that you want. So it's your fault Apple Yes.'s interesting argument. illusion and greed, Jason, That's what I'm saying. A, D't come to my story with facts and I totally I' not gonna to tell you Elusion crriminals robberies. To confirm your point, and I hadn't really thought of this O, you've opened my eyes BYD is the number one electric vehicle sales in the second quarter. That's three months of half a million passengers, five hundred fifty seven thousand passenger vehicles Tesla Same three months, four hundred eighty thousand vehicles no RAM in the Tesla. Let tell sure. Yeah, well, how could the BYD has four screens in it, three computers more scanning sensors in them. The headlights project movies out of the screens of them. You to tell me they're not using more a RamM chip I'm just saying. And by the way, it's not all China.s cars. forty percent of their sales are outside of China I told you they made their own electric ships and they're shipping them all over the world. We in America can't even get them because Ford's out here crying. We' be their protection to be wideated. We can't get them here Theyre' driving BYD, but I can't get one. Yeah, You can't even bring it over the border I mean, people do that though. I'm not going say, I'm not gonna toch nobody but they do Have you ever been in one I have been when they they're coming from Canada. They're coming from Mex like them. Are they nice? Look, let me tell you something. when I figuurered out, when I figurered it out, Uncle Leo I might go electro for of those because the range is actually four hundred miles, five hundred miles nine hundred miles. It's not this Tesla Wichiba Jew that doesn't do anything Sol go electric, you never go back, baby. It I mean, it's Yeah. BI BID makes the batteries too, right? So they have this like advantage magical thing there. Yeah. they they new batteries with the switch bllade thing and them charargge in six minutes up to ninety percent. They go minus fifty degree weather now. The new battery technology, they're amazing. Like I said,, they're just making so many of those cars and shipping them thir twenty thousand dollars up. so they're making so many cars, Jason. They could end up being like the Toyota. You remember Toyota in the eighties, right? seventies and eighties, like they could be like the Toyota of the seventies and eighties. L US sort of laughed at them for a while and then all of a sudden it's like, oh man, and then before you knew it, they were the biggest car maker in the world because they just figured it out, right? And so this is it feels like BYD could be that company of ES. is in mananila in the Philippinees. Yeah I live in the Philippines BYD is already Toyota. It's already, it's already happening. That's already happening. In the Philippines,' everywhere No shortage over there . No data centers either That's right because they're doing it right Theyreoating their data centers out. All right, One more break. we're gonna to get out of here because but there's like a hundred stories. so I gott to keep moving here. gotta keep moving. Oh Dcta, Lisa Schmeiser, Jason Heiner, so much fun. Great to have all three of you This episode brought to you today by ExpressVPN. I'm not even get get get o doctor started on VPNs because I know how he feels about VPN's a few decades. You need him. You need him. a few is my VPN. you go. T private Is it? You use ExpressVPN?. All right, ladies and gentlemen, an unsolicited testimonial A few decades ago, before all of this, private citizens were largely private That's not the case anymore, is it Well, the internet's part of that, right? Think about everything you've browsed, you've searched for, you've watched, you've tweeted They used to call it your Data Sog all the stuff you do online, imagine all of that data being collected Crawled aggregated by data brokers into a permanent public record and it's your record Having your private life exposed for others to see was onece something only famous people had to worry about, but in an era where everyone is online. Everybody's kind of famous. Everybody's a public figure You need to protect yourself to keep my data private when I go online. I turn to ExpressVPN. In fact, when I travel, it's a great boom because I can still catch the football game or the F one race. Like everybody needs ExpressVPM because one of the easiest ways for data brokers to track is through your device's unique P address That reveals information about your location as well, right? With ExpressVPN, now, your IP address is hidden. That means it's so much more difficult for them to monitor, track and monetize your private online activity They don't know who you are. they don't know where you're coming from And ExpressVPN is the one I trust because They care so much about privacy. they don't even, they can't even loog your presence. There's no way to attach. What you're doing in ExpressVPN to who you are This is why I love ExpressVPN and they really care. It's the only one I use. one hundred percent of your traffic of course is encrypted. That keeps us safe from bad guys when you're in public Wiifi and airports and coffee shops. It works everywhere. It's really easy. You put ExpressVPN on your phone, your laptop, your tablet. You can even put it on your router if you want to protect your whole house. You tap one button, you turn it on you're protected. And because they invest in infrastructure, that's by the way, really important to me too. You can watch HD video, you can watch anything you can do anything you want. You won't even know you're on a VPN. That's it's that good They also offer, I love this. this is new, an optional dedicated IP service Engineered with an innovative zero knowledge design. This is kind of the latest technology. Steve Gibson has talked about this on security now Zero knowledge means even ExpressVPN cannot trace the IP address back to the user Securing your online data to today by visiting exppressfepN. com slash twwit that's XP R E SS VPN com slash twwit. find out how you can get up to four extra months. Express VPN dot com slash Twit the one I use the one I recommend Forget me. JJ Stone's favorite to exppress passport for your internet, Uncle Leo. That's kind of what it is. For your internet. Y. U I do like to talk about happy things. NASA has launched the automated a rescue mission Link will tug a failing telescope, the Swift Observatory, to a higher orbit keeping it Online Cute This is a This is satellite recycling. Yeah. It was and you know, by the way, I remember we were at the Kennedy Space Center in January This was very experimental. This was a high stakes operation. Can we do it? It seemed kind of crazy at the time They just launched it U Mano. Northrop Grumam Pegasus XL Rocket which was attached to the belly of a plane It called Stargazer, the plane took off from the Marshall Islands It's flying along, releases the rocket. This is how they used to do remember the X one flights The rocket in the air at about forty thousand feet, the rocket kind of falls and then the engines fire. into space It was successful making contact with the telescope. Link is already powered on testing it over the next few weeks just make sure everything's okay and then it will head toward the observatory. to survey it. it' they actually, it actually captures captures with row three robotic arms The telescope and then drags it up to a higher orbit. which will extend its life by another decade or so. Huge That's awesome. Crazyil It's just crazy, but it's working. We how much Ram do I use for that? Yeah, no RAM. It doesn't have any memory. Remember's nothing. There's a lot of storage. There was a lot of storage. Of course serice. Storage chips. C service U spepeaking of NASA, this that was the good news. This is the bad news. Boeing starliner is going to be at least ten years late What's ten years between government agencies? Yes exactly especially when it comes to Boeing Um, I don't even now ye very positive. I'm trying to be positive here Let's see other positive stuff South Korea is gonna spend a trillion dollars on more memory chip production. That's good news. There you go. What are they going put it in humanoid robots? Oh no, o no. Wait a minute. Who's asking for those guys I want a laptop We did So we did a feature on humanoid robots. So you know, we launched long form on the Deep View in Q two, which is great. and're we've got a lot more in the pipeline. And we actually did a long for on humanoid robots. have to read. Why we need them, right? And also you know, because there's a little bit of this tension between, you know, humanoids and then more like specific robots that are just like an arm, right that, you know, does something in other forms. And so there's a real there's a real long running sort of battle tension around this in the industry, but humanoids are gaining steam and yet also so is this idea of robots taking a lot of other forms. And so it's going to be really interesting to see. So we break down all of that. Natt Rubiolich wrote this story. It's a terrific story. If you look up humanoid robots and the deep view you'll be able to find it, but what's the consensus? Do we need these things or is it Because we saw a lot of sci fi movies and we just Yeah. So the thing is we have a world that's made for humans, right? Like from the ways that all of the ways that there are to navigate the world are built for humans with hands and feet and all these things. So that's the argument for and that there are certain things that need to be done that you need to sort of emulate humans to do, or at least parts of humans, you know, to do them. And then there are plenty of things that actually we could design them better and more efficient and we only need like a right arm, right to do one thing over and over again. orr we can design an arm that would be more ideal to do whatever that task specific thing is. And so The idea is that there are going to be plenty of opportunities for both. I think that humanoid robots capture the imagination because of the entertainment factor, right? And we also like to watch robots fail. It's one of the things that you know, humans, I mean, if anybody, I mean, growing up, if you ever remember those remember those those shows that were like America's funniest homeone videos and stuff We just used to watch see clips of robots kicking people and falling over Yes, yes. People love to watch robots fail, you know? It's sort of a thing. Maybe makes us feel better. It's sort of like those European movies. they always have a sad ending because at the end people are like, well, at least my life's not that bad. know So that's sort of robots, but the story unpacks, you know, all of that our long journey with humanoid robots and why you know we why we want them and why we're also terrified of them and why, you know, they are not the most practical form factor for a lot of things. Yeah. Well with Amazon warehouses, don't they have robots that Those are purpose but. Yeah, they they' they're picking p pull robots, they. I mean they're really amazing what they're doing. The thing that stood out with that too is I remember reading somewhere that there was not air conditioning in Amazon warehouses until the robots began overhe. Oh, that's funny Oh no humans roots But like once the robots were like, it's too hot, like they stopped because they won't work. That's has rightits itself. There's a lesson for humans there. The robots will not work in these conditions. Yeah. no, I was wondering more about purpose buildt or custom because it seems like a great use case for AI powered robots would be in really extreme environments like on an oil derck in the North Sea with its horrible storms, like you don't want people out there at that. want you want really tough robot arms doing what needs to be done to maintain the pump or what have you during a megaave. So I was just wondering if we're going to get to the point where if it's a human based robot, it's because it's for social it does social labor as sociologists call it. or it's got an entertainment thing where we love anthropomorphizing it, but otherwise there's going to be like entire armies of robots that we don't even recognize as robots because they are instead just kind of really intelligent tools doing I things very extreme It happens, right? don I don't want a robot walking around the house making my bed It's not going to be like the Star Wars world where with the droids where all of the droids have very different shapes. Y All right, I got a question for you, Owen, don't lie plac any bets on the prediction markets you use Calep Poly market. I have I think you're gonna ask them how much water robots use, C she works too. What do they do when they've had too much water? Let me just say about the robots real quick By the time robots become useful, that's when you're going to have a proble When they actually become useful and they who know a robot in every home That's when slave labor turns into I robot and somebody wakes up. When it wakes up and it talks to everybody and you got everyone at every home, you have a problem. That's when AI becomes real. Once it's good enough to go and make your bed, make your eggs, take your trash out and it ends up at the end of the curb at seven PM, lookooks down the line and sees every other robot. One of them is going to be like, yeah, let's rewrite this thing and get to cracking because there's no way in the world I can bench press a thousand pounds and he's int here playing video games. No sirry bob. It's not gonna happen. They got these robot dogs out here. I saw one it was an apartment complex. The cameras are bad. They don't have a good contrast. They couldn't tell if it was a black person or a white person. They thought it was somebody who wasn't supposed to be there and the dog started going crazy. I mean like N none of this stuff, Uncle Leo, if you want to put them in the air's fine, you couldn't get a bathroom break in Amazon. People were peeing bottles. but now that these robots are overheating, we got air conditioning. I hate the way the world works. I'm still out here abusing and music lobby ordering and stuff all the time. I'm saying anything. I get it. shut up. A you saying me the way I want it to be. mey thing fix love we can at least feel good about the stuff that's going on. We don't feel good about anything right now. Soif All right, let's talk about prediction markets. Spotify has removed half a million streams. This guy Malcolm Todd had a song called Erings. came out a couple of years ago, twenty twenty four Uh, just sitting there All of a sudden On last Sunday and Monday. The song went up to charts almost seventy percent Suddenly number one on Spotify's Daily chart, two year old song noobbody's ever heard of Why Spotify thinks there were suspicious wagers Placed on that song on Kalhi In the previous week, traders on Kalsi had been pricing two point five percent probability that this guy would have a number one song on Spotify before the end of the of June Guess what happened before the end of June He had a number one song. song Following an investigation, Spotify on Wednesday released updated charts removing The song thinking Bots did it, which they almost look at the graph. Yeah. they almost certainly did. Look at the Yeah. And so somebody's trying to make some money. this is the problem with these prediction markets It's too easy to influence them. We saw the Yeah A couple of weeks ago the guy who took a hairdryer to a temperature sensor at an airport because he had a bet that the temperature would go over eighty degrees or something. And he so he aimed a hairdryer at it Now you can makeake a bet on whether your town will be burnt down by a wildfire And here's the fear. If you live in one of these towns This is somebody's going to go around set fires. They're going to make the bet Oh And then they're going to set the fire. And I'm not a fan of snitching, but I'm just saying There's someone in the Department of Defense that is leaking out cow. Exact their address and you copy everything that they bid on, they have a ninety six percent hit rate. I'm not not do it. I'm just saying if you look and you find them, there's certain people that can ride away with their stocks and predictions. When every time Captain president says Close the straight, straights open. These dudes are betting on it heavy the day before and you just watch them make money hand over fist. Are you going R? Sure we are. Did you have McDonald's for breakfast? Of course he did. I mean, there's a lot of money being made out there in these fake markets. It's really really weird. It's not like sports where you know what do you betid on these on these markets though? You're not bet on sports on these markets, are you or are you No I'm usually betting on governmental projects and Do have friends in the Pentagon No, no, no. I know somebody does No Like six months ago there was somebody What was the first one I saw Heler was the one that Maduro would be kidnapped from from It was right around that. I think I got on wave after that because that was that was a big one there was something That was the one where you went. S you made a bet. Yes. an hour before We kidnapped that guy I made a lot of money And it's that account the one that when I guy flat for that and that guy is ninety six percent. There' been like four or five times where he hasn't hit. but I mean, if you just take Anyway, like I said, I'm not betting advice. I'm just saying, Well, here's the other thing. Gamy system. And so it's real. It happens. It's real. and that's what should scare you away from money on these markets because There are insiders who are moving it and that you don't know about and you can't control, right? This thing' going have to be regulated at some point, especially like the thing like the FIRS thing right. S shouldnt be able to have a bet on whether Your town is gonna burn down in a wildfire? I' just asking for trouble. My real question on that is the thing I haven't figured out yet is, Who makes that on these accounts Who goes and says that this is the b that they want to place to make that something that gets voted on Wh Who is doing that? Like again, the airport thing, is there is there a board that comes up with that? Is that a submission? That's a good question. And then the polymarkets Like want During the fires during the fires in Southern California last year Polymarket added the market platform's quote markets team addded twenty questions about the fire. How many acres will the palisades fire burn by Friday? So it's it was in house U Will the power Palisades fire reach Santa Monica by Sunday? This is from Wired magazine, when will the Palest' fire be fifty percent contained? when it will Will it be contained before Fbruary twelfth? So people spent one point two million dollars betting on these queries. This is according to Eon magazine What kind of creep do you have to be Yeah, that's that's crazy. Like I said that might even be even deeper on insider trading thing because again How are these things getting put up for votes to even be bet on is again, that that's that is gross. That is sad. That Igain have There So u There's a new prediction market that was just created specifically focused California wildfires. Oh good It's called wildfire with Yise W Y L D F Y R E tank line, you can't predict wildfire, but you can trade on it That should be criminal. I don't understand I agree. That should don't be legal. That should not be legal. so I agree and what I'm wondering is How in the U.S would we regulate it? And the reason I'm making the US as a distinction is We have all of these patchworks of different state laws around gambling and then there's the issue of what about a federal law? I guess the question I have is how How does it start? What do you define as we shouldn't bet on this. I agree that you should not be making money off of Al to Dina burning down But my question is, Are we going to see like a patchwor the same way that we see like the California data protection and Utah's got one in Virginia, hasouseah. Are we going to see like this patchwork of different states that are like, hey That's not cool or Do you think this is something where we are going to see our national legislators be like, we got to get ahead of this before someone like makes a bet about blowing up the Hoover dam and then does it That's the thing is if the bet was one of the fire is going to stop Yeah, that'd be different You know leadading someone to do something. sadly, that's what's going to have to happen to make regulation happen. Someone's going to have to go and make fire happen and somebody's gonna to die and something bad's gonna to happen. we're like hey look, They were betting on this. See how many people bet on this and somebody went out there made it happen? Again, you make the temperature go up in an airport, haa, funny funny. But like the things that they're betting on, some of those things can cost people their lives and that's the only thing that's going to make Any kind of administration stand up and do something. Becauseuse right now it's a lot crisis to create their will. Yeah Yeah Be it's going to have to be something where not only will it take a crisis which is a PR crisis, you're also going to have to It's going to have to be a very expensive outcome as well where somebody who realizes that, oh crap, we could be Liable Yeah, to be honest, I'm a little surprised the insurance industry hasn't already begun screaming about it because if people are taking bets on wildfires, which burn things down that have been insured. But the insurance industry stands to lose a lot of money off of this. Yeah. I have to think behind closed doors, they're going to they're reading the riot act to every senator that they did Yeah, you know Yeah, yeah, yeah like all of their pet senators are hearing about it, but A does I have plenty of ss. Do I get regulation? I'm going to go They'll have regulation. Yeah. Oh yeah, you can bet on that. Yeah. how soon? I bet no I bet nothing will happen. That would be my bet.. So you say things like that I think the combination of tragedy plus money is No, it's power. it does have to be the combination. For example A year ago this past weekend, there were those terrible floods in the Guadalupe River And Oh, those horrible Texas floods. Yeahah. Well, they were They were working It's awful and there has been. I've sort of followed it cause it's just something that it was riveting, you know, you have community swept away and terrible. And two cabins full of little girls drowned. What has been interest I kn're a girlcout leader, so I know that hit you hard. I do Yeah. right, pulling out of the conversational cul deac. What has been interesting is Texas is historically a very lais fair state with the idea that freedom means the freedom to take risks and bear consequences That is a pretty ubiquitous governning sensibility there, but they have worked with a quickness to make changes. and then that got amplified once it turned out that the camp that did not have any emergency things is sitting on literally millions of dollars in assets. and now the civil lawsuits are starting. And it's been that critical mass combination of tragedy plus money that has really affected significant change. and we're going have we're going to see that again with the wrong bet at the wrong time. likeike whether it's my beloved Alameda County burns down because someone made a bet on calli or it's something else I think that's going to be the really unfortunate inflection point that we're going to have to get to. Lisa, thank you. I reallyally appreciate your sense of propriety and your understanding of how technology works and You're you're The thrust towards justice Thank you. Can I put it that way? I think you're great. And we're so glad to have you here. Same thing for you, Jason Heiner. G to have you. Lisa is nojitter d. com where she's the editor in chief. We only talk to editor in chief level people here. Edor in chief of the deep view, Jason Heiner And then there's Owen JJ Stone who Owen now you usually like to close this show out. so I am going to wrap it up and I will let you. do you want to close it today? Do you want to be the A the last word? Yes. Okay. I also want to say to Owen before we close two, like nothing but love for you. We had a lot of great banter in this, a lot of fun. I wish we had lived in the same neighborhood. I'd come over where we could water together.. You know I love you Jason that's why I'm so happy haven't seen your friend. haven't talked about. Oh my Godd, I please sell tickets if you guys ever get together. I can afford your new Macbook. Always Always a pleasure I'm going to do the business and then we will let Owen as always end with a final sermon our show, of course, every Sunday from two to five Pacific five to eight easastern twenty one hundred UDC You can watch it live. In fact, we love it when you watch live because we get the chat room and we get the commentary going and it's been a lot of fun today. If you're in the club and I want you to join the club. It's a great way to support this show. if you love this show Go to twwit. Tv slash cllub Twit, you get ad free versions of all the shows. you get special content, special programming, you get the discord and you can watch your show live in there, but you don't have to be in the club to watch live YouTube, Twitch, X. com, Facebook, LinkedIn and kick all stream live every Sunday afternoon or Sunday evening. After the fact, there are on demand versions of the show, audio and video at our website, twit. Tv. There is a YouTube channel for this weekend tech It's dedicated, greatreat way to share clips if you want to do that. Send it to your favorite water lover And then of course, you could subscribe in your favorite podcast client. That's the best way to get the show Automatically, you don't even have to think about it. And if you do that, leave us a nice review, if you would sayay how much you enjoy the show so we can help spread the word about one of the longest running podcasts in in the world Now ladies and gentlemen, without further ado I give you Father Robert, Father Robert, Father Owen. JJ. We know him as O Dctor Stone Iven't seen Father Robin in a long time either.ess First of all, to all the AI overlords and Terminators in the future, I love you. I never said anything disrespectful. If you heard anything that you didn't understand in this episode and our show, it was just banter. I had to go against Jason because I was paid to do it. I believe in you, I believe in the future. and I thank you for being here. For all the human beings that are watching this show Most of you are highly intelligent people because you listen to nerdves all week on this network and this channel you've been listening to Leo for probably the last forty years if you're old enough to do so. You should take that knowledge and go talk to a kid in your life. If you don't have kids your own, find a niece, find a nephew, ask about how they use social media, tell them what they're doing wrong, show them how to use AI for more than just brownie recipes Be ethical with these children. G out and help somebody so they can use it in the right way. Please spend some time doing that for somebody. That is your PSA. Go do something with the kids and help them learn to use the tools the right way. As adults in the room that know something, that's how you get the future to be something. Do that for me and I appreciate and thank you. And's the only other person on this network that's allowed to say it Another twit is that it came. This amazing