The student and the sack of wisdom

Hello and welcome to May. Welcome to May, and this is a very special May. If I may. Yes. There's a little freebie in the mix. That's right. It's a framed photograph of Teresa May. Make sense. For every listener. Every single listener. Even if you don't want one. We've tracked you down. We'll find you. So anyway, but as well as this free photograph, frame photograph, we're also we're gonna we're gonna chuck out a bonus episode today, which we don't normally do. So in May we would normally be well, we w we will be. We we are on on Patreon. Different episodes. And we've got a little free sample of that. Right here. Yeah, so normally we don't do normal episodes during May, but um and we're not. Here's a freebie for you to give you a taste of the kind of thing we do over on Patreon. This is an episode of And Then Sparrows Took Their Eyes, which is a regular thing we do, where one of us Reads out a folkloric tale. That's right. So and this one, I'm reading out the first chapter of um Autobiography of Teresa May. And it's called Don't Mind If I May Isn't it? That's what she chose to call it. Isn't it? Um and it's the unauthorised autobiography, which is quite a rare you don't want to get unauthorised autobiography. But she basically wrote it and regretted it, but the publisher had already signed it. So it's an unauthorised autobiography. Don't mind if I may The Teresa May story. But I mean it's not actually. Uh it is some Brothers Grim stories. Yes, it's some Brothers Grim stories. Listen if you dare. Mm. Mm. Time we shouldn't uh Made of skin The skin of a crone, the crone is her mother, her mother is her Her brother's three Yes, it's time for another edition of And then sparrows took their eyes. Wonderful stuff. It is indeed. The patron bonus in which one of us reads the other's A folkloric tale. But be warned, dear listener. Do you dare to go very dare. Enter the forest of stories. Feel the branches of narrative scratching away at your back. And what's that noise? Is it the scratching, the little little miniature claws scratching away, making the scratchings of Oh, this story's going on quite a long time. Oh. And what's that what's that fetted stink? Is it the fittest stink of oh the rules of narrative from those days aren't quite we we uh demand a different kind of narrative structure and something a bit more punchy now, don't we? Yeah Anyway, uh this week's uh story is going to be read to us by Henry Packer. Hello. What have you chosen? Well, I thought I would take us back into the world of the Grims. Very good. This week. Who kind of the the Beetles of Folklore. The Beetles. The Beatles of Folklore. It had the had the Beatles not written any of their songs, and had they just gathered their songs from by travelling around Sort of Germany. The forests of Germany. Yeah. Talking to sort of Yeah. Ir ironmongers. Yeah. Yeah. And saying Tell us a tale, ironmonger. And the ironmonger going Imagine if we all lived in a yellow submarine Yeah with Mr. Octopus in the garden, Octopus. He can carry. It's almost too many travels, yeah. Yeah. So so and then um And then the grims would would give that a little bit of a rewrite, wouldn't they? Well they exactly. Well that's what the that's what Paul and John would do, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So are the Grims a bit more like are they a bit more like George Martin? Oh yeah, producers. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So which Grim? So um I Decided today. To read us a couple, several, three in fact, is my plan, of the shorter Grimm's Tales. And they're all on a theme. The the theme is food. So they're all culinary tails. Can I predict something? Yeah. Will one of these include a giant pot that a child falls into? So we've got we've got three tales that I'm going to try and get through today. Not get through. No, not get through. Again, sorry. I was just trying to mix it up. Not get through. What's your get through? That's what we're doing. No, there there are three tales that that I thought I might um sprinkle over your brains like magic dust. Better. Okay. Um we've got Well, I think we're just gonna kick off with This is one now the Grimms a lot of the Grimms tales are Grim. There's a lot of eyes being pecked out, there's lot of lot of people having their skins torn off, a lot of people accidentally eating their own mothers, that kind of thing. A lot of really grim dark stuff. But they also do chuck in a couple of more sort of wacky ones. Okay, good. So we're gonna start with one of their ones where they're actually just having a little bit of fun with it. Okay. Um but still hopefully with a bit of unsentimental death thrown in. Well wait and see. Okay. Wait wait and see. Just you wait and see. Okay. But this is this is in a way the n the closest the Grim's ever come to a to us to a p a picturo sitcom. And that sitcom is called The mouse. But And the sausage. It's already funny. It's already classic clown trio It's a classic clown trio. And also I think the BBC they're giving you they're giving you a meeting just based on that title. You're getting a meeting. They're not gonna commission it based on that title, but you will get a meeting. The mouse, the bird. And the sausage. Yeah, with attached test daily as the sausage. Okay. I'm clearing out my lunches for the next week. Come into the building, let's talk. Well you can come tomorrow. Wait, I've cleared out all my lunches. I can't get my lunches back in now. I shouldn't have cleared all the lunches. Okay. So let's um Mm. So imagine a sort of friends style opening. Okay. So what, like a New York apartment? New York apartment. Slow zoom in. Franken Furter dancing in a fountain. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. out of the oven, it's burnt. Mm-hmm. That sort of thing. Have you ever watched Friends? I only watch nineteen seventies British sitcoms. Which are always about a souffle being burned. That's all I watch. Um Okay. Once upon a time a bird. And a sausage? Or do you like us. Yeah. So I've already made a mistake. I've missed out the mouse. I was thinking, um The mouse didn't last long, he's made the first sentence. Sorry. Once upon a time, a mouse, a bird, and a sausage. became companions, kept house together, lived well and happily with each other, and wonderfully increased their possessions. Okay. Yeah. That's a mouse, a bird. And a sausage. I feel the BBC w they're gonna have an issue with the fact that mice and birds are both animals where a sausage is a dead animal stuffed into a skin of an animal. Which feels like the anthropomorphization rules feel difficult already. Do you know what I mean? Do you see labels on the side? We're e we're entering something gothic, uh something in i in the zombie world, potentially as well. Yeah, a good point, Henry. Like how do you animate the sausage? Do you p do you put eyes on the sausage? From an illustrator's point of view, it's tricky because you've already you've you're already presumably anthropomorphising the it's a it's a word that what once it once it's in the room, I like to say it a couple of times. Just enjoy it. Um once you're anthropomorphizing the mouse and the bird. How do you then anthropomorphise a dead one of them that's been minced and stuck in its own skin? I mean the answer is the answer's Googly eyes and a hat. Yeah. But perhaps a single colourful shoe. Yeah. We must make it clear it is not a worm. That's the well that's the real challenge, isn't it? Yeah. You do that by giving it a belt and underwear. Oh, because a wormess is right on the end. So a a belt on a on a worm would have to be so low down, it would um it would effectively sort of an ankle an ankle tag. It wouldn't really um whereas the AC sausage is equally distributed throughout the insides of the sausage. It's made of anus, isn't it? It's a what is it, it's a membranous anus, isn't it? It's it's seep I mean it would seep rather than it's a Um Yeah. Um Good. The bird's work was to fly every day into the forest and bring back wood. The mouse had to carry water, light the fire, and lay the table. But the sausage had to cook. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Um He who is too well off is always longing for something new. Creatry that, but Crobile is always. There's not much subtext going, is there where they say that. There's not a lot of subtext in these tales. I think what's happening is w what we've been what we're what we've been set up with is a sort of a vision of a sort of perfect life. But is is are we suggesting that the sausage is frustrated? Well we don't know yet. 'Cause the sausage is very much behind closed doors here. But I I understand that, 'cause I l if I lived with a sentient sausage I I would be worried about them leaving the house. Oh interesting. Interesting. Good good good thinking. You'd be kind of repunsering it. I think so, yes. Uh with its with its best interests at heart. Although of course eventually I would be nothing more than a jailer. Of a sausage. Of a sausage. Yeah. So it sh it shows, doesn't it, how marvelously identifiable these stories are. You can find something in it, can't you? They resonate. Don't they? The Middle Early Truths. There's universal truths. But I think we've got this idea that that they're wonderfully increasing their possessions. Everyone's got a job. Bird gets the wood, the mouse carries the water, sausage laser table sausage. Well again it's the anthropomorphization Mm-hmm. Some sort of barrow It's it's incredibly hard to envisage this. Isn't it Yeah. They're asking a lot of the reader, aren't they? They really they're saying we're gonna have to make us halfway on this one. It's not telling us if the sausage had arms or anything. It doesn't it doesn't help you out at all. Yeah. But I think it's also a very precarious position for a sausage to be in, isn't it? Yes. The sausage by the frying pan is Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that's the tent steeped in in Jeopardy, isn't it? That's the bomb under the table. Um But um I think it's because these these tales were conceived in a time that was before Pixar. And before Animation. So so there was no question of You I think you could just picture stuff in your mind's eye without going into details. Do you know what I mean? The sausage is cooking the the fr is frying the meal however you want to imagine it. Yeah. How are you imagining it? How am I imagining the sausage? Yeah. Are you giving it arms and legs or It's the Is the hands. Tem sort of m buddings. I'm imagining there's um where it's been pricked in the past. There's a sort of leakage of Venez that that form enough shape. Uh, that they can grasp a a a pan for enough and they they eventually withdraw back into the skin. Or are eaten off by the mouse. And the sausage is steadily decreasing in size. Unbelievably horrifying, isn't it? Right, let's carry on. I think there's a shared assumption, which is the listener so far in the story is going to hell, those guys have got it good. Yeah now. The dream scenario. He who is too well off is always logging for something new. It's like you never you know. Yeah. So one day therefore took the words out of my ruddy mouth. You actually want them taking down a peck or two, don't you? It's too bloody good what they've got going on. Also does the sausage eat the do they eat the food. Anyway, let's just go on. One day, therefore, the bird met with another bird on the way. To whom it related its it's to whom it related its excellent circumstance and boasted of them. You absolute tossbag. The first page of a Grimms Fairy Tale boasting. Have you any idea how bad things are gonna get for you? Just keep it under your bloody hat. Wind neckin' White Fuck neckin bird. You've got it so good. You've got a sausage that cooks for you. You can basically eat anything except sausage, it's all minute sausage. Pretty much everything else is on the on the menu. Mints, masaka, fritta, chop. Um Okay. called it a poor simpleton for his hard work. But said that the two at home had good times. For when the mouse had made her fire. And carried her water? She went into her little room to rest until they called her to lay the table. The sausage. Stayed by the pot. saw that the food was cooking well, and, when it was nearly time for dinner, It rolled itself once or twice. Through the broth. Or vegetables. And then they were Mommy. Made them feel a little bit Umami. And then they were buttered, salted, and ready. So did you follow that? Did that make sense? Well with within the world of grit. By sort of bathing in the By bathing in it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When the bird came home and laid his burden down, they said they They sat when the bird came home and laid his burden down, they sat down to dinner. And after they had had their meal, they slept their fill till next morning, and that was a splendid life. Do you understand why I'm delivering it like this? Because you were trying to be magical. Yes. Because I am being a Because you've had no formal training and performance. That'll be a powerful factor into it, yeah. Um I'm realising that my complexion and this orange T shirt today are creating an incredibly odd I feel like I'm a character I'm a sort of sentient apricot from a Grim's Tale. It's not gonna end well for that apricot. I think I've got it good. Every day a prune makes me a tart. And a piglet. So so that was that was the other bird telling it that like the other two have got it good. Yeah mugging him off. The mugging him off. The mugging off. Yeah. The next day the bird, prompted by the other bird, would go no more into the wood. Say that he had been servant long enough. I had been made a fool of by them. That they must change about for once and try to arrange it another way. Bit like if Ben told me to sort out a lot of the podcast stuff. Actually, if Ben told us we had to do any any work. Yeah, because because John Robbins had a word in my ear. When I met him in the woods. That's kind of what this story is, I'm just realizing. Who's the sausage? Think you're the sausage. Am I the sausage? If you're asking the question, I think it's you. 'Cause everyone every group of three people has one person who's the sausage. And if it's not you, it probably is you. That's not how that works. If you don't know who it is, it probably is but if you if you say that sort of thing fast enough, it seems to make sense. It seems to make sense. If you find yourself rolling through a big pan of uh of vegetables, it's you. Um Yeah. Okay. So essentially there's a status quo. And it's being uh it's being Turned upside down. Um and though the mouse and the sausage also begged most earnestly. It's it's like me saying, I'm gonna sort out the podcast from now on. So I'm the bad Yeah, you're sorting it out. You cook the podcast. I'm the bird going, No, let me have a go at that. You can do what I do. You know me, I'm I'm the one trying fuck it up. Anyway. And though the p the the the mouse in the soldier also begged most earnestly, the bird would have his way and said it must be tried. They cast lots about Oh no. They cast lots about it, and the lot fell on the sausage who was to carry wood. The mouse became cook, and the bird was to fetch water. What happened? Well, the little sausage Went out towards the wood. Never said it was little before. I think they're getting they're they're enjoying it now, aren't they? They're just getting into it. The little sausage went out towards the wood. The little bird lighted the fire. The mouse, stayed by the pot, waited alone until little sausage came home and brought wood for the next day. But the little sausage stayed so long on the road that they both feared something was amiss. The bird flew out a little way in the air to meet it. Now this is what Mike predicted. Mike, you would not let that sausage out of your sight, would you? No. No, I'd be very anxious. Not far off, however. It met a dog. Ancient enemy of the sausage throughout all storytelling cultures throughout the world. Number one predator of sausages. Isn't it? And it's a long bloody list. It's number one. It's a long list. I mean Benjamin specifically is in the top hundred. I absolutely love a sausage. As long as it's a good sausage from a decent place. But you'll give a bad sausage a go a go, when it's give it a good go. Chew it up and swallow it and see what happens. Sometimes you do want a cheapo sausage, though. I worry about that. For me the sausage is the um The Lodestone. Of the of the full English. What does Lodestone mean? Blindstone. Loadstone. Uh is the I'm gonna get confused here. I I'm not sure if a lodestone is like a keystone or if it's like something to do with navigation. I think I've used the wrong word. But the sausage is the sort of um It's the pilot. It's the bellwether. It's the bellwether. Yeah. You know what kind of full English you're gonna get, or full Welsh or full Scottish, based on the sauce the quality of the sausage. No, I I I'd support that view. Yeah. It met a dog on the road who had fallen on the poor sausage as lawful booty. What way to think of it? And had seized and swallowed it. I think it's because a sausage just belongs in the belly of a dog, doesn't it? It's so that's where it has to be and has to go. Um but also in all these tales, it the the the forest is always the place where bad things happen, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah So if you send a sausage into a forest, of course it gets eaten by a dog. Exactly. And I think the sausage shouldn't have gone in the forest. No. It's it th the the the dog isn't really overstepping the mark by eating it. The dog's in within its rights. Dogs doing what dogs do. Dogs exactly. Dogs eat sausages. Sausages stay at home and cook food. It's the it's the natural order of things. Um The bird charged the dog with an act of barefacy. But it was in vain to speak. And I think they're trying to get a sort of sitcom bit out of this next bit, which is a bit odd. The dog said he had found forged letters on the sausage. Okay. It's unexpected at least. Okay. I think that must just be a gag, a local reference, or something I don't know. That's something that we're not getting. Yeah, that's going completely over a head, I think. Yeah. For the dog said he had found forged letters on the sausage, on which account its life was forfeited to him. Got it, you wonder if there's some sort of heavy, juicy, like Hanseatic satire going on. Yeah, I think there is. Yeah. I think there's some serious satire about about red tape or or something. Yeah. Yeah. About the mayor of Danzig. Yeah, and if you knew about the mayor of that, you'd be r you would be ruffling at this point. You'd be you would fall clean off your chair. It'd be like you can't have a bloody shit in this village without the mayor of Danzig rubber stamping it. Is it that sort of thing? I think so. And you you you you you yeah, this is this this is your private eye, isn't it? He's getting the poke. Yeah. Yeah. The bird sadly took up the wood. Flew home and related what he had seen. And hard. They were much troubled. But agree to do their best and remain together. So this is the version of Friends where Jerry's been eaten by dogs. They're just like the two ways rather than three ways now. But that's a bonus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's more space in the flat. Fen thing. Ross, yesterday you smelled the dogs when you came in. Interesting. Mm there we go. And you were griping about the Brent. Oh hello, we've got we got we've got a series narrative strand here, potentially. And then he starts to transform those like quick shoot him with a silver bullet. He has seen friends. Um The bird therefore laid the cloth? And the mouse made ready the food. I wanted to dress it. And to get into the pot, as the sausage used to do. And roll and creep amongst the vegetables, doesn't you know that a mouse doesn't impart umami? There's no imami in a mouse. Sophie. Yeah. No mommy in a mousey. It's quite um Yeah, I feel like it would make more sense. If it had made sense in the first place that a sausage would make the food. Do you know what I mean? We're supposed to be thinking, Oh, bloody hell there's no way that could work. It's a mouse. This would look better if it was three humans and it was like a chef, a woodsman, and a scullery maid. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, the a yeah, the um the anthropomorphization isn't actually helping in this case. It's sort of making it less easy to understand as a story. Although yeah, although the jeopardy of the sausage, um And particularly the wood the woods is it is very clear at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah. He'd have to be I think chef. Or is a chef a scullery made and a or a What the other two? Woodsman. A woodsman is kind of made under sausage. I think you have to have the sausage in it. That's why they've end up with two animals and a sausage, which is a bit odd. They've basically got one idea, which is a sausage that's a chef. Well, is it better to the flatmate the humans? No, w if yeah, if we've got as well go the whole hog and actually have flattened speed creatures and different creatures, different species and Then it could have been like a sausage. Battenberg and a cabbage. You just got yourself another meeting. Um Or it could have been it could have been a Ross figure, a Joey figure, a Miranda figure, a s Who is that? Suzanne. No. It could have been a Ross. From the nineteen fifty sitcom, Hey Susan. Yeah. With a weekly audience of a hundred and eighty million people. Live from Minneapolis. It's Hey Susan. Um No, a Ross figure, a Rachel figure. A uh Oh yes, of course. Oh no. They're gonna want the haircuts. Can you just give me the sausage? Can I have the sausage? Yeah. Oh I don't think you've really got the right hairline or just just give it a go. Well that's that's entirely bald and greased. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's painful but getting the forks shoved in, like three or four pr three or four pronged sh metal fork. Round in. Yeah. Um So the mouse. goes to cream amongst the vegetables, like the sausage used to do. But before she got into the midst of them, she stopped. And lost her skin and hair. And life. In in the attempt. So that's ad that's big laugh, ad break. That is sobering stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Is it implying in that order as well? Yeah, that's the order. Skin gone. So that means the skin's gone, but the hair's still on, briefly. Yeah. Maybe it'll be alright, I've still got my hand on. So hang on. It's just because the vegetables are boiling in boiling water, is that what we're talking about? Yeah. U mousey. U mouse me When the bird came to carry up the dinner, no cook was there. In its distress, the bird threw the wood here and there, called and searched, but no cook was to be found. Owing to his carelessness, the wood caught fire. So that a conflagration ensued. Bird hastened to fetch water. And then the bucket dropped from his claws into the well. And he only just made it out of the window in time. No he bloody didn't. Right. And then the bucket dropped from his claws into the well. And he fell down with it. and could not recover himself. Had to drown there. Yeah. So they can have a bit of fun. Can't they? Yeah. So is that the end? That's the end of that one, yeah. So what is the moral? The moral is like just stick to what you're good at. Stay in your lane, I think. I think stay in your lane. It's also be happy with what you've got because the implication is that this is a great, great life. They've got. There's a reason the baron is a baron. Okay? The baron is supposed to be a baron. Okay. You're supposed to be a turnip farmer. Shut up. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And if you try and upend that order, you will end up drowning or your skin will come off. And that's your skin before your hair. So your skin somehow works its way around the follicles and and somehow kinda comes off. You will be a skeleton with a hairstyle. For a short period of time. Surrounded by hot, hot carrots. Okay. You'll be a a sort of bleeding Dumpy mus muscle and nerve endings clad skeleton with a bowl haircut. Nothing covering those nerve endings up, just the nerve endings just ready to feel it all. Feel it all every moment of it. Gosh. Yeah, 'cause I think it's dressed up as, um, you know, be happy with what you've got. Your life's good. And then the secondary meaning yeah, is the underneath that is The Baron's got a good life and he wants to keep it that way, so don't Get back out into the field peasant and don't come back until the sun comes down. We're thinking of starting a shoemakers union, Baron. What do you think? Let me tell you a story. Yeah. Right, there's a sausage that can cook. And that gets their attention. Yeah. Well that was fantastic. That was good stuff. Right, that's it. Come on, lights out. You've got a test tomorrow. Just two minutes. I'm about to reach the next level. It's going off now. Yeah, whatever. Let's see, where's the app? Oh here it is. What? How? Better luck next time. It's game over for late nights on school nights. EE Wi-Fi controls how you get them off the Wi-Fi and into bed. More parents are choosing EE Broadband, the UK's fastest growing broadband provider. To verify see e.co.uk slash claims. Okay, now time for story two. The fire is still a crackling. You might want to um change your seating position slightly. Yeah, because the story meister. is lighting up his pipe again. Oh getting pressure. Yeah. Well he's the the the wise storyteller, his arse is made almost entirely of callus. For he has sat on that stump and weaved his tails for who knows how long. Can we leave? No, I don't think We don't think we can leave with still most of his tail. Do do you 'cause I Maybe if we all together decided to leave we could Perhaps if we did spring him. Perhaps if we we'd take on the mouse we could then we could leave. Maybe we could put his skin off. Um Okay, so now so the next tail So this is another food based tale and it's another one of their little They're just having a bit of fun. Yeah. It's another wacky one. This one is super quick. So we're just gonna this is a real dip in dependent call. Depend about it. It's cold. Sweet porridge. Okay. Um I already feel nervous though. Such an innocent title. But I feel really nervous about this. I don't think this one's too disturbing, actually. Let's see. I can't. I don't think it is. I think it's just quite um. It sounds to me like the name of a folk album. Maybe Neil Young in the seventies brought out sweet porridge. Yeah. Yeah. It's either that or it's a really, really, really, really nasty low budget uh horror flick from the seventies that you must never, never see sweet porridge. Porridge is made out of is the porridge is apparently the porridge is made out of the bones of the DOP. He minced his own DOP lime. As the do new more of his own film. Sweet porridge. Um Okay. There was a pool. Good little girl. who lived alone with her mother. And they no longer had anything to eat. So the child went into the forest. And there, an aged woman met her. who was aware of her sorrow and presented her with a little pot. Which when she said cook Little pot. Cook. Would cook good sweet porridge. And when she said, Stop, little pot. It ceased to cook. What did it cease to cook? That's sweet pumage. So it's basically a sort of voice activated rice cooker. Yeah, but it only makes Sweet Punish. It's only got one setting. Loving thing. So we've b we brought the whole round the whole family round for for easter Sunday, easter lunch. Yeah. And it's again it is. Again. Again. Again. Yeah. Happy birthday. Don't even bring it in. Don't even bring it in. It's magic. You can't get candles to even stay upstreight and sweep. I'm okay. Um The girl took the pot home to her mother. And now they were freed from the poverty and hunger. And ate sweet punish. As often as they chance. So that's potentially more than three times a day. But it's also potentially a bit of a dig, isn't it, about the the pot, you know. Once on a time. When the girl had gone out. Her mother said, Cook, little pot. Cook. And it did cook. And she ate till she was satisfied. And then she wanted the pot to stop cooking. But did not know the word. Oh no. Have a guess, mate. Desist I say. So it went on cooking. And the porridge rose over the edge. And still it cooked. What kind of porridge, Henry? Some people like it with a bit of salt. But not this one, it's splage. And still it cooked on until the kitchen and whole house were full. And then the next house. And then the whole street. Just as if it wanted to satisfy the hunger of the whole world. And there was the great distress, but no one knew how to stop it. At last, when only one single house remained, the Child came home. And just said. Stop, little pot, said And it stopped. That w that w woman's kicking herself that that's right. How did I not try that? How did I not I panic. I panicked. You just your mind draws a blank. Because it's easy to do it in retrospect, but at the time when that sweet, sweet pearage is rising around your ankles. Oh when you got sweet pearage up to your navel. It's hard to think straight. It Stompton gave up cooking and whosoever wished return had So stopped little pot and it stopped and gave up cooking, and whosoever wished to return to the town. Eat his way back. Nice. That's the end of the story. That can't be the end. That's the end of sweet porridge. There's not even a moral there. It's a tricky one though, isn't it? Yeah. I suppose it's too much of a good thing. It's a bit like the last one, is it too much of a good Yeah. Yeah, you too much of a good thing or But do remember the password. Do rem just remember your password. Try trying basics. Yeah. The moral of the story is Occam's razor. W which is what? Isn't that just no one knows what Occam's raise it is. I think Occam's Raiser Is You say it when you want to sound pretentious. Yeah. Yeah. Is it the most the most simple answer is the answer. It's probably a razor. It's probably if it's called Ockham's razor. Yeah. Is it? It's probably it's probably if you want to stop it trying saying stop. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to go. Yeah. I think they're both similar. They're both about h excess being bad or something, are they? But they didn't they didn't want the excess in this case. In the previous one, she ate until she was satisf she did try and stop it when she was satisfied. Yes. So they didn't do anything wrong, really. Mm. Yes. So it's just remember your password. Or or or is it again is is there some I don't know, some northern European Duchess somewhere who Cock up or something in this. It's a direct piss take. Do you know what I mean? Someone left the bath on in the castle. This is Mayor of Danzig stuff. It's Mayor of Danzig stuff. Yeah. It could be a specific thing. Maybe. I'm going out on a limb and saying that one's absolute hot rubbish. That that's I thought the last one was good. That one's terrible. Yeah. Well you you're you're certainly within your answer there. But at least it didn't take up too much of our time. Yes. That's good actually. To his credit. Yeah. Yeah, I mean sh yes, the story meister does occasionally bang out some real shite. But the story master has a a sense of when the shite is being banged. And he gets out of there quick. He gets out of dodge. I think I think it's all about the the punchline if they had to eat their way back. I think that's very, very funny. If Because of course that's not true, is it? Well they wouldn't have had to eat the bet, they could have used shovels. Well you get a shovel, wouldn't you try shoveling? Shovels, wouldn't you? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean if someone starts easing their way through it, you are gonna just stop and watch them for a bit, aren't you? And wait and see how they get on. 'Cause normally it would be like a story where it's to do with the greed of the family and they want you know, they decided they were gonna get this magic thing and then it sort of came back to bite them. But yeah they seem to be really nice people who just Times to everyone. Run of bad luck. They're I think that's why it's they get some arms. Well it does it does have the trope of the Maybe it's just an anti maybe it's anti charity. Yeah. See what happens. It's true that maybe that's what they're saying, yeah. If we hadn't if we just left these people to their poverty, maybe they wouldn't have worked out how to make sweet product themselves. Also there's a strange detail at the end, which is that Whoever so wished to return to their house had to eat their way back through the porridge. Because if some people were gonna go and leave it. It's covered in porridge. It's covered in s admittedly sweet porridge, but I like sweet porridge, but can I eat that much sweet porridge? Yeah, I'm gonna try Oh, it's like a condo in Bremen, actually. Yeah, 'cause it's not as if they're overindulging, are they? Doesn't sound like it. 'Cause 'cause you'd think they're a I mean the classic one is that one where There's the guy who there's the fisherman. Is that a Grims on where he goes He he he's about to catch this fish and the fish says Please don't catch me. I'm a magic fish. You'll go home and your house will be a palace. And he goes out actually this is I've just r remember this is this this is another sexist on this. I think. 'Cause he goes back, turns his house into into a palace. I think his wife then says to him, Oh, but this is only a palace, you know, we could have like a mega palace. He goes fishing the next day, catches a fish. He's about tweeted, the fish goes, No, no, don't let yeah, please I'll give you even better meg and he goes, Give us a mega palace. And they go Okay, let's the fish goes home the white walls even more and it gets bigger until it's like the Vatican I think he becomes a king, then he becomes the Pope. They get they get become more and more rich and more and more powerful. Eventually the fishers name it, I'm cutting off your supply. It's over. He's back to being a poor fisherman again. What's the moral there? That's greed, I think. Okay. Yeah, 'cause the sorcerer's apprentice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But that's again, he sort of wants to impress someone. So he He wants to impress the wizard, doesn't he? He ends up with loads of Mickey Mouse, doesn't he? Loads of brooms. Brooms. Never been able to get through it. First film I ever walked out of. Really? Fantasia. Yeah. In 1952. There was a screening of it. When my sister and I were very small. It is quite it's hard work for kids. And we went to see it with my with my mother. And um we yeah, we started watching it and we it all through. It's really this is uh this is all touche. We all sort of couldn't believe it. My mother's not the time to walk out of stuff, do you know what I mean she'll she'll she'll give it a go. But we all yeah. Well it was w it was a a really thrillingly exciting moment of my life. Oh yeah. The most reckless I've ever been. 'Cause now you'll just sit through absolute shine. I do that. I s I sit through films. I wish I'd walked out. Apparently the new Mario movie. Yeah. It's potentially one of the worst movies ever made. Worse than the last Mario movie. Yes, much worse. Wow. But it's also the second highest grossing film since Sonic the Hedgehog. It'll be huge, presumably it's Playing good just isn't a metric that matters. It'll technically be, yeah, the fifth largest economy if it was a country. If it was a country, it would have nukes. Yeah. It's joined Donald Trump's board of peace. That's his problem, he's getting advice directly from Mario. Just jump up and down on it. I want to see it though, 'cause it's it sounds like it might be so deliciously terrible. Oh, that sort of thing, yeah, it makes it does make it tempting. But you want to you want that Yeah, maybe that's um that's a beans uh a beans outing. I think it's time. For the turnip. Ohnip? A turnip. Yeah. Now is this a story or is this a turnip that you're handing around for us all to take a bite out of before you move out? It's a hallucinogenic turnip. Yes, good. I give it to my audience when you're turnip. Yeah, when they've not enjoyed a story. So I I I you know Sweet power just stank the joint out. Yeah. I've been tell around this fire for long enough to be able to take that kind of thing. One honkin tail does not take out. The story weaver. Sweet porridge is normally a hit. It normally blows the roof off sweet for the things. 'Cause when I'll be hanging out with my story weaving friends later on tonight. In a hollowed out um tree trunk. Uh in the form of squirrels. That's what we turn into at night. Um I'll say then. You're not gonna believe what happened earlier. It shows you never know what you you can never actually master this story weaving business. I told them sweet porridge, they didn't like it. I know, I know. And I've repeated Sweet Porridge. I said it the right way. I said sweet porridge all the time. I said it the right way. And that's normally your your closer, isn't it? I normally close with sweet porridge. Yeah. I open with donkey cabbages and I closed this with porridge. There is actually one called donkey cabbages, but it's too long to read today. Okay. It's on my list, donkey cabbages. I might do it next I might do it next time. I get that. That's how the story does that's how he gets invited back, isn't it? That's why g that's why gets invited back. He knows his business. He knows what he's doing. Well I can do corp that's why I can do corporates. I actually have the um the Marquess of Bremen did her birthday party last night. And um They actually asked me to do sweet porridge four times. They k they were actually calling for sweet porridge. Did you have your sweet porridge canon with you? W I know you have that for the for the big corporates you tend to the sweet porridge can be Yeah but sweet porridge can I think what's happened here is you've you've told us it sort of straight. Without the normal stuff you have like I'm telling in the forest it's a public space so I have to use health and selfie. Say health uh I have to use it. Health and selfie is the name of the elf that does your health and safety, isn't it? 'Cause if it's a corporate gig, so the Marquis of Bremen, for example, it's um anything goes. Because it's um it's it's it's on her territory. She actually makes she more she makes a lot of the um Yeah. And it's just uh it's small audiences, but it's it's just you and that burlesque sausage, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Is a female Marques a Marquessa? Is it? My queens? But um Yeah. Weird one. Okay, the turnip. I'm excited about the turnip. Okay. There were once two brothers. Who both served as soldiers. One of them was rich? And the other poor. Then the poor one, to escape from his poverty, put off his soldier's coat and turned farmer. He dug a he dug and hoed his bit of land. And so did it. With turnip seed. The seed came up. And one turnip grew there. Which became large. And vigorous. And visibly grew. They do ask something of the imagination of the reader, don't they? They really do. Yeah. Vigorous turnip. Vigorous turnip. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean just you have to make a choice. You have to make a choice. It is how Fanac to make it. And that's very much listeners' choice. I um the story weaver does not intrude on that kind of thing. That's your own personal imagination. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I suggest imagining it as a big horse's dick. But that's just my That's how that's how you sow ideas into your audience, isn't it? And you are like, are my seeds. And stories are my plants. And the morals of the stories are the fruit of my plants. For their fruit plants. You are also waving around that big dried horse penis to try and save that idea. Yeah. Well that's basically You don't have to. You can I've got great deals on these dry horse penises. You can buy one on the way home. And I'll throw in a hot bollock. That's just today. Right. Um Okay, so it grew vigorous. Yeah. And visibly grew bigger and bigger. And seemed as if it would never stop growing. So that it might have been called Princess of turnips. It might have been called. Might have been. Well, that's the thing with princesses, isn't it? They they never stop growing. For never was such an one seen before. And never was such an one. Be seen again. At length it was so enormous that by itself it filled a whole cart. And two oxen were required to draw it. And the farmer had not the least idea what he was to do with the turnip. Or whether it would be a fortune to him. Or a misfortune. Good point. I like that. That's that's that's ambiguous, isn't it, in quite an interesting way. How do you want a massive turn it? That's what he's asking. Just think about it for a second. At last he thought, If thou sellest it, What will they get for it? That is of any importance. And if thou eatest it thyself Why, the small turnips would do thee just as good. Good point. Yeah. Essentially if you sell it. You could get money I suppose which with which you could potentially buy more turnips. But you've already got a turnip. You mean? Or you eat it, but that's the same as the small turnips. It would be better to take it to the king. And make him a present of it. Yeah. Okay. If you haven't taken out of its wrapping, you've got something at home, you know, if it's still in the pack. It's a bit shit. Do you want it, do you not want it? Give it to the king. Yeah. Soft power. Soft power. He so he placed it on a cart, harnessed two oxen, took it to the palace, and presented it to the king. What a strange thing is this, said the king. Many wonderful things have come before my eyes. Never such a monster as this. From what seed can this have sprung? Are you a luck child? And have met with it. Yeah. Be the luckchild. We've had Brat Summer. It's gonna be Luckchild Summer. Might be. From what seed can it can it have sprung? Or are you a luck child and have met with it by chance? Mm. Ah no, said the farmer. No luck, child am I. I am a poor soldier, who because he could no longer support himself, hung his soldier's coat on a nail and took to farming land. I have a brother who is rich and well known to you, Lord King, but I, because I have nothing, And forgotten by everyone. Then the king felt compassion for him. And said. Thou shalt be raised from thy poverty. And shall have such gifts from me. That sh that thou shalt be equal to thy rich brother. Then he bestowed on him gold and lands and meadows and herds. And made him immensely rich. So that the wealth of the other brother could not be compared with his. When the rich brother heard what the poor one had gained for himself with one single turnip He envied him, and thought in every way how he also could get hold of a similar piece of luck. The story weaver takes a puff on his long pipe. Yeah. Can I ask the question? Speak my child. And um also would you mind um The little leather lo The little leather loincloth that you're wearing. Please adjust it to the left. Please adjust it to the left. Out of modesty. Thank you. Why why is the king moved to Is that why? Well no, 'cause he's basically the the turnip has got in the audience with the king. And the king has asked if he's a luck child, and then he's just told his ta his story of being very poor, and the king has just he felt sorry. Yeah. He's obviously never met any of his subjects before. No. Wait, getting in the room, then isn't it? It's the sub story the like Britain's got talent or whatever, do you know what I mean? You've got to be going hard and fast. But also the turnip is buzz. He's got buzz because of the turnip. Yeah. The turnip's got got him through the door. He's got and the elevator pitches, I'm really poor, my brother's really rich. Even though we were doing the same job. Yeah. That's true. I didn't know how that happened. I guess he's a general. So maybe brother's done a bit of looting on the side, we don't know. So anyway, his he's his his richer brothers heard about how rich he's become, because he's now richer than him. He envied him and thought in every way how he could also get hold of a similar piece of luck. He would, however, set about it in a much wiser way. And took golden horses and carried them to the king. And made certain the king would give him a much larger present in return. He's seen that stuff before. Come on, man. What he hasn't seen is a really great turnip. Massive turnip. Yeah. If his brother had got so much for one turnip, What would he not carry away with him, in return for such beautiful things as these? The king accepted his present, and and said he had nothing to give him in return. That was more rare and excellent. And the great turnip. So the rich man. Oh yeah. Yeah. Sweet porridge. You're still in the sweet porridge story, baby. He can never escape sweet porridge now. Oh yeah. Look at your hands, the made of sweet porridge. Oh baby Yeah. The story weaver has tricked you. He is a porridge witch. You're being stirred through with syrup making you sweet porridge. Okay. So the yeah. So I think that that's I that's what that's one of the reasons I chose this story, I think. That's what that's one of the first proper twists in a grin. That's good. Yes. They would have had little 'cause they would have had post-its but they'd have little bits of bark stuck to a tree or whatever, and they'd been going for ages and ages thinking What do we do with the turnip? What do we do with the turnip? Does he war a dress made of turnips? Can you mash up the turnip and make sweet, sweet turnip? No, we've done that already. So the rich man was obliged. So Have I read the sentence fully? So the king accepted his present and said he had nothing to give in return that was more rare and excellent than the great turnip. So the rich man was obliged to put his brother's turnip in a cart. Yeah. And have it taken to his home. When there, he did not know on whom to vent his rage and anger. Until bad thoughts came to him. And he resolved to kill his brother. And what do you do when you want to kill your m your brother? He hired murderers. Oh I see. I got murderers. That would have been good. He started sharpening his turnip. He hired murderers. Yeah. That's good because these days Murderers like to dress it up by calling themselves assassins. Yeah. If try to make it professional killer or whatever. Oh yeah. No, no, no. Murderer for hire. Oh it's a line amber. Semi pro really. Um he hired murderers who were to lie in ambush. And then he went to his brother and said, Dear brother, I know of a hidden treasure. We will dig it up together and divide it between us. The other agreed to this and accompanied him without suspicion. While they were on their way, however, the murderers fell on him, found him, and And would have hanged him to a tree. Just as they were doing this, Loud singing and the sound of a horse's feet. were heard in the distance. Multoves. This horse has feet. That's four hairy human feet. Yep. On this their hearts were filled with terror. And they pushed their prisoner head first into the sack. hung it on a branch and took to flight. He, however, Worked up there until he had made a hole in the sack through which he could put his head. The man who was coming by was no other than Then travelling. Guess the next word. We're playing Grim's guess the next word. Can you give me the sentence again? So he's he's he's been hung up on the sack, he's worked his head out, the the footsteps have come along. The man who was coming by was no other than a travelling sack lowerer. The man who was coming by was no other than a travelling student. Oh. Yeah. So what degree they're doing? Just wasn't expecting that word. A young fellow who rode on his way through the wood joyously singing his song. So ruga bugger something like that, probably. When he who was aloft saw that someone else was passing him below, he cried, Good day. You have come at a lucky time. The student looked around on every side, but did not know whence the voice came. At last he said, Who calls me? Then an answer came from the top of the tree. Raise your eyes. Here I sit aloft in the sack of wisdom. So by the way, this story has taken a major It's a classic weird handbreak turn halfway through the story. It feels like a point it feels like a point to play things with a straight back. Doesn't it? Yeah. Some people in a sack. Yeah. You you your brother has hide a sa has hired murderers to kill you. So you can trust up and hung in a sack. Could you let me could you let me down, please? Yeah. I've been screwed over. Thank you so much. You've cheers. You've been an absolute life saver, honestly. What year are you in? Is it Oh yeah, exactly you're in industry or something? Or do you just um straight through it? Yeah. Yeah. No, 'cause I I heard Warwick's good. I've heard yeah. How many florins have you had to borrow in terms of student loan? How many florins? Yes, right. Twenty thousand florins. But um yeah, but they only 'Cause the king can't cut your throat for it, can he? No, it's not only once you grow a turn up of a certain size that they can start taking it. Raise your eyes, here I sit aloft in the sack of wisdom. In a short time have I learnt great things. Compaired with this, all schools are a jest. In a very short time I shall have learned everything, and shall descend wiser than all other men. I understand the stars, and the signs of the zodiac, and the tracks of the winds, the sand of the sea, the healing of illness, and the virtues of all herbs, birds and stones. If you were once Within it. You would feel that noble things issue forth. From the sack of knowledge. Telling on he's trying to screw this bloke over for no reason. Yeah. Let's see what happens. Yeah. The student. Yeah. W it it's a very weird but it's a classic Grimms tech thing this, which is the massive handbrake turn halfway through the story. We could but you went to the getting we're gonna come back to kill the gun sack because it's less than never safekeeping. Oh, could be. Let's see. The student, when he heard all this, was astonished. And said, Blessed be the hour in which I have found thee. May not I also enter the sack for a while? So we've had a kind of an interesting sort about turnips and wealth and sort of jealousy and stuff and now it's like students are dicks. May not I also enter the sack for a while? He who was above replied As if unwillingly. For a short time I will let you get into it. If you reward me and give me good words. But you must wait an hour longer. For one thing remains which I must learn before I do it. When the student had waited a while. He became impatient, and begged to be allowed to get in at once. His thirst for knowledge was so very great. So he who was above pretended at last to yield, and said, In order that I may come forth from the house of knowledge, you must let it down by the rope And then you shall enter it. So the student let the sack down, untied it, and set him free, and then cried, Now draw me up at once. And was about to get into the sack. Halt, said the other. That won't do. took him by the head and put him upside down into the sack. fastened it, and drew the disciple of wisdom up the tree by the rope. Then he swung him in the air and said, How goes it with thee, my dear fellow? Behold, already thou feelest wisdom coming, and art gaining valuable experience. Perfectly quiet until thou becomst wiser. Thereupon he mounted the student's horse and rode away. But in an hour's time sent someone to let the student out again. The end. No. Yeah. No. What? But in an hour's time sent someone to let the student out again. Não. Você pens. Well w would you rather the student stayed in the do you think he was gonna get clubbed to death by the murderers? I was worried that he thought I was worried that he thought yeah the the murderers they wanna come back and kill someone in the sack and they won't be able to think it's kind of that way. So it's a really weird story that's about this turn so it's about wealth and jealousy and stuff and it's quite clever. And then it's like students are dicks. There's no need for the student but he comes across really well this guy in the story, doesn't he? Comes across So what's the message there? Like even like people who've done really well and made some good choices the Got you know. Hidden Bridges. Yeah. We've all got a dark side. In the in the case of this guy, he just fucking hates students. Great soldier, great farmer. Makes good decisions, but he just really hates students. His brother wants to kill him. That story just gets left. The murderers hired no. He sticks up he he puts a student upside down in a bag. He hates students, but not so much that he'll kill them. He's still like he didn't get into Newcastle University. He really wanted to go to Newcastle. It was a course he really fancy didn't want to go anywhere to get in he thought he was gonna got the right grades but he still didn't Yeah. And then you had to go to Durham, which did the same, but it wasn't the course wasn't as good. We prefer the city of Newcastle. We prefer the city of Newcastle. Yeah, so um It's a weird one, eh, isn't it? If it starts so well, it feels like it's going it's really well. It's a good one. Halfway and then halfway through it turns into this odd satire about student and then it kinda loses its guts anyway and saves the student's life. You know, it doesn't even Yeah. It's almost like the storyteller realizes sorry, that was a bit odd. And in the modern day at the beginning like the the wealthy brother would have been a real tool and You've been you'd have a lovely lovely come up and he gets the turn up of the king, the end, you're done. Yeah. Might drop out. Well to work H B. Yeah, so there's a three. Trilogy there. Yeah. So yes. But it it it's it's the s slight lighter side of the of the grims we've had there. Yes, the first one is the is the is the thing I've I've more come to expect, I suppose, more 'cause there's Um the mouse, the bird and the sausage. Yeah, he hubris hubris and unsentimental death, but there's um Yeah, fast. What is the moral of the final one? Um It feels like we had The first one had a very strong and obvious message and moral, I think. Yeah. Second one just absolutely followed. He had a moment where he was being unselfish. Like I guess if you're a royalist you he wasn't being He wasn't trying to sell it or eat it, he was just trying to He was giving tribute to what he believed was a higher good, and in so was was duly rewarded. There'll be there'll be parables of s you know You know, the poor widow who g is greeted into the kingdom of heaven because she gave but a penny or whatever, you know? That sort of stuff. Having done that then. You then move in quite a strange direction. And the moral is what, students a fair game? What is it? Again, d does that feel like it could be um The Marquis of Bremen or whatever it was you were saying earlier, Mark. Could that be a a a reference to something? This could be Mayor of Danzig stuff. It could be sorry, Mayor of Danzig. This guy, he's a soldier and a farmer. So does that mean he's probably not studied? Does that mean? I don't know. Oh, so he has less respect for it. Maybe he or maybe he's got some kind of earthy wisdom. He's a man of the world. And the is the student really trying or is he is he trying ch is this the equivalent of using chat GPT to thesis? Yeah. Grim out of their time. Is there a sense of like he has learned by this experience? He's learned not to trust People in the wood. So in fact it is it is a sack of wisdom. Yes. Um he taught him the the greatest lesson he could ever learn, which is not to get into a sack. Strange man tells you to get in a sack head first. Yeah, so it could be like sort of stranger danger moral. Uh but uh I'm just quickly looking 'cause sometimes that so there are Jungian interpretations of Fairy tales. Yeah we go. Mm. 'Cause they've just emerged over millennia or whatever, these stories that are quite similar to each other. It says in Jungian psychology the turnip It's a symbolic representation of the unconscious. Specifically in its nourishing Earthy. And sometimes overwhelming aspects. It's often interpreted as a mother symbol representing deeply rooted n gñunic I don't know that means earthy wisdom, soul nourishing gifts, and the fruits of inner work. Hang am I am I just getting in the sack? I think you've just been tricked headfirst into the sack. I've just been tricked into the sack. And also that was suggested by AI that answer. So I'm literally you're literally getting into the sack of wisdom. Yeah. The fake sack of wisdom. I'm upside down on the fake sack of wisdom. Yeah. And your horse is gone. You're gonna be there for an hour. It's totally possible that AI made that up. Yeah, they they could say that could be bollocks. But I mean I was thinking that the th that he's grown I was thinking he's grown the turnip. So he's sun he's nourished something. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That has value. That has brought him. Value. So nur nourishing things in yourself is good, maybe, in some way. Whereas the student I don't fucking know, mate. Well I just tell the bloody to I'm the story weaver, I'm not the story explainer, all right? So buy your fucking horse sticks. I'm chucking a free hog bollock. Get the fuck out of my clearing. Well, if you're listening at home and you uh think you have an explanation for the mean the deep meaning the deep Jungian meaning beneath the turn. Do email in, yeah. Yeah, yeah, please do. Or if you've ever tricked a a student into a sack. Are you a student who's currently upside down in a sack? In which case you can tell us where you are, we m we might come and let you out. In an hour. About an hour. Okay. Well, thank you, Henry. That was fantastic. Yes, I enjoyed that. Thanks very much. Glad you enjoyed it. I'll take uh two horse sticks, a couple of pig bollocks, and I'll be on my way. Yeah. Ah, lovely. Uh I'm sorry, those were cursed. You're um you're now a um you've been turned into a uh a worm who's my servant. You're a servant worm. Oh hang on. Mm-hmm. That last story did end, um Quite abruptly. But there is another ending that A line of ending that we need to add to it. Yeah, yeah. I guess I forgot to read the last line. Sorry. Yeah. And then, of course, sparrows took their eyes. Close his eyes. Uh.