Predicting the Premier League Table

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No chaos, no limits, just open theme Take your shot at contentful. com Welcome to the TFo Football podcast. I'm Joe Deivine and today I'm delighted to be joined by JJ Ball. Hello Joe. John Mackenzie. Hi Joe. Ruban Pinda Hey. And would you look it's Kaya Kick too. We got a full house gang Busty Fanky. Hello. There he is. Now, what do we talk about on today's episode? Well with the end of an era across the Premier League this season. That's right with Manchester City and Liverpool seeing prominent personnel leaving under Tunnels of honour. That's right. We discuss tunnels of honor, what they mean. And could something be named after me? That's right next, I would like a public toilet to be named in my honor. Even though I would never use it myself, That's disgusting. But because of anxiety, you understand, notot snobbery, although I've made it sound like snobbery, haven't I? But you know what's interesting? Often snobbery good mask For anxiety. On the tunnels of Honor or Guards of Honor as they're actually called and Bernardo Silver, one of the players that we spoke about, it's just occurred to. I was reading Oie Kazy' interview with Bernardo Silver recently and they kind of structured it with a series of important photographs from his time there. And I think they had to give a Guard of Honouror to Liverpool when they won the league during nineteen twenty And Bernardo Silver had a coffee cup in one hand and a water botle in the other hand to stop himself from clapping because he just really pet to clap. Incredible. But there you go. there's a petty elite sports person right there. also I knew he'd been there for a long time, but nineteen twenty, good Lord. That's really a century of fun. Yeah. And here coming on, we have Bernado Silver Go Silver. There we go. What did we discuss next Well We discuss what may stop people from fully enjoying Pp Guardiola's era due to questions around the owners of Manchester City, and Steve was very nervous during that bit and will be nervous during the edit. But I'm sure he'll manage What was next? Yes, we played a very exciting Rndo. It was actually a mammoth Of course there were five players involved, but Will Alex Barker keep hold of his Rndo crown for longer than just one day. Well, stick around to find out. After that we're into the drop zone, just like West Ham, we discuss how the Irons were cracked and shattered By relegation. Can you shatter Iron I think if you hit it hard enough, ye, fair enough. I think you should go go practice. Yeah, I would like to do that. And staying at the bottom, leades weren't there. We talk about their comfortable fourteenth place Finnish post promotion. That's actually quite a long and interesting conversation. Yes, We' got say something else because on During yesterdays live stream, I started about three stories, which I immediately stopped. Was that what you were about to do? No, No. Okay. I did do promo for things. Oh yes, of course. Oh yes. I've got gigs this week. If you live in Birmingham, I need to sell tickets on the twenty eighth of May Dead wax. Please come and see me play all my songs live. They're all hits. Can I say before you do another one that I was in a taxi yesterday and I got chatting to this man. He was telling me that he is this a story that you don't want to tell? This is what I'm happy to tell. He was saying he lived in West London and he was a Chelsea fan And I said to him, if you could live anywhere Where would you live And he to my surprise, he said Birmingham And I said, oh, okay, I wasn't expecting you to say Birmingham. mean it's lovely place. You could achieve that lovely place. I said, you could, you know, you could move there. He said, I've got family here. I was like, Well, you fuck then. You fuck. But I said, whyy Birmingam? He said Do you know how little you pay for a three bedroom house in Birmingham? I said no. He told me, I said, fair enough. Yeah. So interesting in that sense because what I really meant was like, if you Not that It's a good job you didn't sound snobby. I you really anxious you' snobbbery. Which is what I meant is it? Because what I meant of course was, you know, if money was no object. But to him all he cared about was Birmingham That's good. That should have maybe that should have been another story that you gave up on. Yeah, I think so He The Bulwick Birmingham was fine.'s fine. I went I went there last year I thought it was absolutely fine ' get they out You're an update on Sursday, I guess. are g Of course you can. Hopefully there'll be some people there who are also late living in Birmingham. Yeah. There's gonna be no one there after this promote.. I know. I' Manchester Friday that's sold out. can't come to that Manchester Yeah. that's good. How much have three bedroom outs in Manchester? I was going find look more expensive than Birmingam. Absolutely ye And I'm playing inewcastle that think tank never been Sunday it's the thirty first of May. I'm planning to visit Newcastle this year. Yeah. justust to see it because I've never seen it before. Oh once I worked in the Apple store there once that it doesn't matter doesn't matter. I think it's fine. Last place. Yeah. Newcast. Well of course I'm from the northwest of England, so we hate those Geordies. You I say about Manchester or Birmingam there Interesting You don't like Manchester or Birmingam. wet. Match as there is to. Yeah Actually that comes up in the Rnda in no it doesn't that's a short that we recorded, wouldn't it? Never mind. Ruben's brain is breaking, Yeah. Mine is definitely broken. Yeah. And to finish off the episode, we have the final installment of Points of Bad All I'll say is it's incredible drama. It's all the way down to the final installment of the season You don't want to miss it. You really don't. Would you compare it to the final day of twenty eleven twelve I'd say it's even biger than that. Really? I'd say it's even bigger You're assuming a lot of buy in from people who aren't Ping the game. Do You think the audience can I would say it's not relevant whether they care And that's always been my opinion about the audience. Now, before we get started with today's show, let me quickly tell you on Thursday, have we Joh, We've got Jack Pitbrook. We've got a new guest on the podcast as well. There'll be a little bit of a I expect somewhat of a sppurs bent to that episode. We'll talk about some Darren Bent is a spurs bent, isn't it? There you go. abbsolutely. There's a ring for analysis on Saturdays as. Well, that's part two of Inside Arsen's Title challenge. that James M Nicholas piece so you'll get to listen to that on Saturday. And then I must tell you that on Saturday evening, of course, it's the Champions League final you won't be here because you were in I be in Manchester. You're in Mchester then. So if you want to see JJ, go and see him and. That's on the Friday. I'm onaturday so you can watch that free on Saturday.ree. In which case, watch our live stream. We're trying something new, a little experiment ahead of the World Cup. We're not just live streaming after the game, we're live streaming During the game, I believe they call it a watch along So and we are using it as an opportunity to work out exactly how that from a talent perspective. That is going to be unbearable. It's going be horrible for me Yeah. Now Kyra is on one of the people joining us. I'm being subjected to it. That's right. And it would will be your first Champions League final Well, as an adult. You going to try and claim I was't an adult when it happened, but I kind of remember two thousand six. How old were you? I was nine. eight You don't that doesn't count. I remember that game. the one where you Layman got sit no. Yeah. ye. I don't remember that. and I was J in the pub Julian It's an adult experience.'re a child, you don' have any responsibility. You can do anything you want. It doesn't matter. You don't care about the world in the same way. Now you're an adult and you know the pain of existence, it will be different for you to be I'm really gonna to know the pain of existence. Anyway, Kaya will be live during the game with us to watch So I think it's just worth tuning in for that alone If you're not interested in initially, just wait for PSG to go one goal up and then come into your hand. Just so that you can watch. Are you a sweary football watcher? I thought I was and then so I watched the Arsenal West Ham game with Joe and John sort of literally like, you know you have a devil and an angel in your should. It's like two devils on each should. Yeah. And I was so stressed out. I think I said about three words for the entirety of the second. I think we took it too far I get the feeling that when the cameras are on, they're gonna take it further. No, we couldn't possibly We couldn't. guy didn't say anything after fifty minutes. You were quite a good sport for the first half and then and then it just got. He got more and more nervous that was such that was my favorite ending to any game all season as well. That was so fun. that was fun. So fun. There we go. Okay, so that's all what's coming up this week. But for now, enjoy the rest of the show Where else to begin, of course The the end of several eras Aston Biller enjoyed ending some eras, didn't they onn the final. That was kind ofd, wasn't it? D anyone watch that? They did they did two different Tunnel of Honors God of Godds of hon Godards of H Tunnel of Hon. Welcome to my Tunnel of Honour. They did two different Gards of Gard of honourors for u for Manchester City based Bananda Silver and John Stones Avill a park, whichich is kind of unusual, isn't it There were two guards of honor at Anmfield at the end of last season. Liverpool won the league and they were playingalace the final day and they'd won the cups so they did w one for each other. That's John Stones and Bana Silver deserve one, though. But didn't they just deserve one? Can't they both go who the same one? Oh did they get one each? Apparently they got one each. I didn't say Why did that work? I think they they were on the back at different times. was subitute's the John Terry ayook and when he gotbbed off it. In the twenty sixth minute, which was actually the twenty seventh minute and then took three minutes, it was basically on the thirdteth minute. And it was his idea, not the clubs. It's one of those things where I didn't see it and I don't know about it, but it's the thing I've heard mentioned the most about yesterday. Did Villa get one for winning the Europa League? Was it just for those two players? I don't know. Did they? Where does it end? Where does the tunnel two m of love? I was gonna say the tunnel of honor end I don't know. Have you ever had a tunnel of hor? actually No, you havent have. Have you? Yeah? When When did you get a tunnel? first mornings he gotck's in the office? No, so when I was at Cambridge, I don't want to talk about this right. I've written a book. I was at Cambridge I got the record number of appearances for my college because I was there for ten years and I played for both the postgrad and the undergrad team. So I smashed it. This is very much James Milner having the most England under twenty one cat ever because he played there between seventeen and twenty three. Yeah. K You wrote a Tfo short recently about how some college athletes in the states set records through like a series of loopholes they are allowed to play until they're forty six. Yeah. That's basically what happened with me. Anyway, when I left, we did we did a testimonial where we got the first team that I played in years a testimonial for you for me So who organized this? the people in the football? Did everyone come back or the? Well, we we had a team from my first the first eleven that I played in versus the current eleven, which is quite nice. Wh Do you play for both play for both sides Are you still the record holder now? I assume so. Is there a photo of you on the wall of the college? There's Yeahah, there is. There's phot and they're all they're all holding me up And I'm like, Wow There's barely any photos of me in my own house. Incredible What was the actual college that you played for? Corpus Christie Oh right, okay. yeah. Well, we should you know, hopefully one day there'll be another corpus Christi alumni who will eclipse your incredible achievements with that team. And maybe you can return. They have to be bad academically as me to be around for ten years. That's the any problem. That's the thing they never say about people who live long life and's hack isn't it? Ke failing the have to say that. Anyway, there were lots of endings yesterday. One of them was Arsenal's endnd of horrifying Wait for another Premier League title C. Hasn't felt horrifing in the past few days from being on it. No, you seem to have enjoyed yourself. You watched it with Papa? I did. Yeah. I think that's it was good fun. What was it like to experience the ending of all things end of all things. Well just if if it was Lord of the Rings, that's what we would call it. Okay, I yeah, Lord of the Rings. Despite ha seen them, all the references still go over my head Yeahah, it was great fun. It was nice to see. I think there was just party atmosphere for the whole game. It was weird. I cycled from my house which is Niffinsry Park to my dad'souse which didn Hampstead, I had a very difficult child to growing up in Hampsstad, but I got through it. But I cycled there ands kind of his name is surely on the walls of Cambridge. ye. Yeah. But the queues outside the pubs at like twelve o'clock when I cycled were already down the street and people were going out of their way to try and enjoy this moment in a very nice way. And yeah, was it was a fun, fun vibe. It was a game that didn't matter in any way, but it was it was still good fun Ale won, which was always nice. and yeah, lifting the trophy at the end was A highlight of what's been a a very high week, so yeah, it's been good. It os od that Kaya and Steve are the only two arsenal fans in a ten mile radius of London, not wearing an arrsenal shirt today. That's true. I in the last one. I didn't think I could wear again. I cycled in with an arsenal shirt today. Oh everyverywhere I was going over the weekend everyone was wearing an arsenal shirt. I genuly got two arsenal shirts in my bag outside So if you want me to wear one Im sure I canck I don It felt like a festival vibees, isn't it? When I was on the way into the office yesterday to watch the football and do the live stream, it was an endless sea of red. It was quite nice. They're very happy about it, aren't they? They are happy. Oh, that was nice. I was walking through a B them still yesterday and Blackhor ro bits like that and just loads of people coming back from I think the game or just watching it parties and stuff like that. Lots of people who went to the Emirates afterwards to do So on Tuesday night to sort celebrate there again. So I'm guessing they maybe were come Yeah. that's when I sent that text last night, I remember when I was like, whyy is everyone celebrating like they won it? They didn't do anything. There's watching. And a nice question what the idea of supporting football team is anyway. That's fair One other thing that you watched yesterday., I don't know if you've celebrated it was Pp Guardiola's final game at the E. I mean, amusingly, they lost the game Yeah to Aston Villa too Wie Watkins? Yeah to Wie Watkins, which I think is quite a nice continuation of the tradition. if it started with Alex Ferguson of the final league game being insane there was a five five against West Prom much al then one was this one was an unexpected result also. Pepp Guardiola of course gave a nice speech after of the game. Did't he? What did he say? It was lovely. I watched all of the the stuff at the end where they get all the players up at the end of the season stuff. I like that. It's like my version of when the Queen died, you know,? I get to watch all the bits and pieces of everyone leaving. It's very nice. Yeah. you can sort of So I've watched Bernardo Silver for so long. and obviously he's gone. None of these are dead. thinking about people watch watching the Queen's death going, this is nice. It's so nice. They come together. It's that and whatever wedding it was it was on the TV, you know was actually big wedd. David Dimbleby in though, to just commentate on the people who are there because I know anybody like that's the third Earl of Worcestershire over there. No there's just someone doing that in the game setting. There is a little known football isn' night. That's exactly right. Aad Trundle is obviously just on view like on a Plinton the Ety Hard for the next le for ever long as well it's dead nice watching everyone leaveving and you think like, oh, I remember when Jhon Stones broke into the team Yeah Do you know? because you get as you get older these things happen. I remember when I was much younger and Michael Ooen broke into the Liverpool team. you're like, oh wow, I'll be old once he retires. Well, you still hold inside, Stt to the city correct. perfectly is the exact same timeframe as PEP that Yeah they arrived at the same time left first the same time. I think Bernardo Silv as well right? he you get after well, he's yeah he's like a Guardiol the most played ever player And also you know, you've seen in the Premer League for so long and you just all the memories that we have all had because I don't support City obviously, but what Guardiol has done there and I've always watched his teams that it just feels nice that sort of booke no idea what he's going to do next I I know those players leaving as well. It was good. He did a speech to the crowd. He was being all lovely to people and all the players came through. Edison turned up. Yeah to say goodbye and who else his dad G to one? Yeah. Petwardardu old his dad who just turned ninety five was in the crowd watching it. That was nice. Yeah lovely thing to see. And they've named to stand after him. The North stand has chang to the PP Guardiola St. It's the big new one that's behind the goal.. And he's making some jokes. he'll control the players from the stands. Got it. Maybe he will. One of my dreams is to have something named after me because I feel like because my name is divine, it could make it sound quite funny. Do you know what I mean? Like what? Well, like a you know, public toilets, the divine public toilets. If I donate something, w The divine wing sounds like a you know, angel's wing or something. You peopleople whats your name. You've donated plenty to public toilets in your time, to be fair. I actually haven't. I don't enjoy using public toilets. I've got a little bit of what do they call the old stage right. Maybe people want to do it on stage. When I was I would say nineteen years old I went home from a night out in Camden because I couldn't even go to the toilet in the ona. In the cubicles. How long was the journey home Oh, thirty minutes.. I went home and then I didn't come back again. was just that was it was like, Oh, well, it'sleven PM. I guess I've gotta go home. I need to we. That was it? that was the end. Anyway, one thing I will say, it's quite a hard segment, isn't it What they going say about that speech. as emotional as it was, nice to see as it was a man who's spent ten years working at a place with people that he seemed to like and expressing a what seems to be a very very genuine expression of emotion to the fans also. Something kind of derailed me slightly when I was watching it, which is that U he named Shake Man Saw and Cal so who's the owner of the team and Calden Emel Barrack, who's the chair Check my son of course, is the deputy Prime Minister of the UAE. Caldu Nmal Barrack, his pal, you know, you looked confused then. No, No, youn't look that. No I' trying to remember the names. I I wanted to see them after it. God I got it. Anyway, the re the reason it kind of threw me slightly is because Pep Guardiolo is known as someone now. particularly recently, I think he's taken advantage of his final year in the Premier League to be quite open about various different u you know, political events that he feels strongly about. And u, you know, he seems like someone who who u cares about it and is considerate and whatever. The end I don't I'm sure I'm certain that I have done, but I can't recall another time where I've heard him nameam the individual people within the ownership There's a certain distance that you create from U comp or a group when you don't give people individual names or when you just talk about, you in vague terms like the ownership or the chairman or whatever, it gives you some sense of distance from it. When you name people partarticularly in a, you know, thank you speech at the end of ten years, it creates this kind of sense of sort of personal association And u I don't know, me it gave me pause for thought. and I'm not saying that it changes anything. Do doesn't make any difference that he said their names or not. It simply changes the way I felt about it in the moment. I thought, oh, that feels like a little bit compromised. He's been really pally with Caldun over the years I his loads of photos. like In my day to day job, I spend a lot of time on getty images. and finding good photos of people like Pe Guardiola and in all the tphy lifts, especially not in the travelble seasason as photos of those two hang around so To usy, are these entities that sort of exist, right? But to him they're real people that he deals with a day to day basis? Yeah sure. No where when they get up to, you know, I understand I understand I mean, I know he's met them. I know I know it works with them. I All I'm saying is, I suppose like what, you know, one of the main criticisms that people have had of the Manchester City experiment era, whatever since in the last there have been criticisms of it, has there? you don You know, have been that it's a tool for sports washing and you know, people there many many people who who've done reports and talked about and written about all of the All of the things that the leadership of the UE have been engaged in And what perhaps the purpose of the Manchester City experiment in itself was. In some ways, it's very tempting, isn't it? to just enjoy unblemished a decade of Pp Guardiola, who's possibly the greatest football manager who's ever lived, alsoso seems like a really fun person. My favorite part of his speech was when he said, if you're a Mchester City fan and you see me in the streets anywhere in the world after this, come and hug me I believe he means that, right? I believe him He seems like on the one hand, this great guy that I want to be friends with. I want to hang with him. I want to learn from him about football But at the same time There's this u, there's this kind of He's more compromised than the ordinary person. Everybody's compromised, but he's on that spectrum, he is more compromised than the ordinary person. And that doesn't mean that he doesn't get to talk about Palestine. It doesn't mean doesn't get talk about any of the other political things that he believes in But it just it leaves me feeling kind of confused about what level of nuance I'm supposed to engage in this with Yeah. And I'm sure you know, all the other things he said are true, right? that the his expression of emotion is is all it's all real It's just happening in a foundation of Of watch, John. I don't disagree with anything you've said, but I guess the way that I would look at it is the other way around in that he's been able to use, as you said, in the last few years, the platform that he's been given to actually talk out against things that his, you know, potentially could be an issue with his employer. and I think that's incredibly hard to do. I also think that when we talk about guuardiola, we don't ever give him the advantage of having learned through his time what he might maybe he regrets, I don't know Um But I think, you know, it we weren't talking about sports washing right that much when he first arrived at Manchester City And I feel as though he didn't talk about political stuff when he first arrived at Manchester City. And I feel as though through time he has become more politically engaged. And again, that doesn't that's not to try and compromise anything that you've said. I think all of that is true and there does need to be nuance. And I think politics is it is a difficult business, right? It is there are tricky things here that we won't ever be able to to reconcile But I do think that he has, you know, as has been pointed out, I think hes spoken about he spoke about Saddan right? He's spoken about Palestine. he's spok about I was going to say, he' spoken about Sudan, which I think for people listening or he named Sadan, So reading from from the Guardian. Now this was published three months or three months ago or so This was around the time where he He made a speech about out against various different killings across the world, including Sudan, where a paramilitary group backed by the UAE, which the UAE deny, I believe, which in effect owns Manchester City is embroed in civil War. So the reason I'd point out that one specifically is because that is an example of where he's been critical of a situation in which there are, you, the UN has accused the leadership of the UAE of being directly involved despite their denial of that. And I think as well, it was clear that he was really affected by what happened in Gaza. The speeches that he made about that with speeches where he would come out and you'd say I'm seeing children dying. and I have children and I know what that I can have some sort of sense of how that might feel. And yeah, I think would it be great if Guardiola had never been compromised in this way? Yeah, absolutely. He has been compromised in this way. and I think he has made a good job of like retroactively, I think rectifying some of those issues. But yeah, it doesn't it doesn't stop it from being compplated, confusing, disappointing at the same time. What about if one hundred and fifteen challenges come out just to move on slightly and you know I don't know, they're found guilty of some of them. Will that do you think that'll change his reputation respectively? I think for someone of an arsenal persuasion, I maybe have a different take to most in that sporting perspective of what he did on the pitch in terms of the way he transformed players and the way he won titles and beat opposition I don't know that his legacy in that sense will be changed. I don't think people will think, o, he's a worse coach. because of it, I think people look at the achievements themselves differently in the sense that They won't think, Ohh Manchester City or this this you know, if it all goes differently,'s say they're strriicted to it or whatever, they won't think of Man City in the same way. but I think I don't think PEet, for example, wouldn't be in the frame for the next best coaching job that came along If it turns out the one hundred and fifteen charges are proven. I think his, you know, his job and his work at Man City probably I don't think people the way people view it will changed too much in terms of what he did on the pit really. Turn Fny, isn' Yeah. is it represents the fun part of football. and I think him leaving now mayaybe disappears for a bit will probably help with that if anything does happen with one hundred and fifteen,, because then If that does happen, he's sort of, even though he's obviously a big part of it, he's sort of Are we? I mean you know I in this in similar way to Ferguson, although not related to to accusations of cheating or the accusations of sports watching. I do think, you know, Ferguson was kind of a a fun manager partly because he did seem u what's the right word? He seems to have like a complex personality Like he seemed like kind of a deickhead, right? Like there were plenty of stories that made him seem like notot a very nice person. I've talked to a lot of experi who did not like him. Yeah, but there were plenty that made him seem like an incredible pres. Anyway, you know, people are funny aren't there? People are funny. We're going miss him from a content point of view. I for sure enjoyed his press conferences I'm not massive on sports documentaries, especially the ones that are not really documentaries andmore I've never seen you on a sports documentary, so I'm not surprised you're not massive. No but I've never seen you on one, so why would you be massive on them You know what I'm saying? It's a documentary about giants. Yeah, he's small. He's one of the. It doesn't make sense as it doesn't make any sense, whver. O sorry. J toish point However, I have really enjoyed the behind the scenes footage of him giving team talks like, you know when they lost a wigon in the cup in seventeen eighteen And he does he does the whole Sit down, Nbody talk. sit down. And And when they were losing Southampton, was it last season in one of the cup games And he was like staring at them all in the eyes like this is the shit that you serve up for these fans that have traveled. citing there like the cost of living crisis, he's like, they cannot afford to eat it And you play like this Wow We're gonna miss that also like something he picked up from Ferguson shortly as well, right? Beuse like Ferguson's whole thing was talking about how the, you know, this was the thing that the fans got to do that was fun. They didn't have any money. They had shit lives. you know, you owed it to them Which I suppose is a powerful motivating tool, isn't it? Act in that Wiggan game that I referenced, there's a great clip from that as well of Faby and Dell explaining Defenders, defend. attackers attack midfielders box to box. These are the basics of football. And I can just imagine in that moment, Guardola being like, well, I'm glad one of the players is like speaking up and trying to lead. But actually Fab and's way more complicated actually shut up Yeah.' that sounds like one of the the football manager team talk things you can do, you know, do it for the fans. Y. I like how you can choose what emotion to say it Do you know? I like that. Agressive. Yeah water bottle. Yeah. but passionate. That's all I ever did. You slow the water blood And you see them are all dip and you're like off Yeah was the wrong one. For fun, I used to give live instructions during games. I used to scream at them to calm down. I thought that was very fun. like! Why aren't you c? Anyway, there he goes. coffee pops I'm sure I'll another job soon, honey, after a year. Yeah. Well, there's something. If you see somewhere, haveave you see anyhere the world, give me a hu, you know, any on the street in the states, he said that, which makes me think. any of he's a man city fan On if you're m That's correct. but it makes me think we're not allowed to wander over to the states, you know? Do you think so. think you I think you'll take a bit of a break Yeah I hope so. think'll take a year, maybe even two And similar to what Clock's done where he's kind of Almost completely pulled myself away from the day to day that kind of stuff. I wouldn't be surprised What you'king about he's interested in doing a podcast or Yeah. yeah. a week. Tice a week. He's always on his phone in the Twitter. That's true. Yeah. It could work quite well. Youk as a man who might moveved to New York and live a life. He lived in that after Barcelona doing Barceon and Byon Okay, well there we go. That's not only did Pep Guardiola have his last game at Manchester City, right, Steve, but two of his most trusted lieutenants, of course, Jhon Stones and Bernardo Silver also said their farewells And over Anfield, Andy Robertson and Moamed Saler left Liverpool that felt like a dying embers of Yurgen Klops era are starting to flick around Steve. They joined at the same time twenty seventeen. They were like kind of felt, I mean, the team obviously evolved over time, but they were really really like important jigsaw pieces at that time. Yeah you Robertson even had that like first six months on the bench just meanwhile Milner played the left back. And then once it all clicked, they they were brilliant. It's amazing to think, I always think with players like Robertson that sometimes the thing that really makes people believe that they're good is the club they play for. becausecause when he was at Hull, I thought, Oh A's pretty good. And then he moved to Liverpool. I was like, that's that guy from Hull. And then a year later I was like, he's amazing. because he plays at Liverpool. He's done an interview, I think, since we almost said something along those lines where it was like, When you were going down with holulles, I spoke to my agent and we had this like hour long call of teams I could go to and ort they were sort of thinking like bottom half teams. And then I think like just towards the end of the call, his agent got a call from someomeone at Liverpool saying We want you. And then he went and had a meet with Yoen Klopp, I was like, Ohh my Godd, like I actually I actually want to do this. I'm Liverpool C. Exactly. Andarry Mcuire was in that team as well, was? Yeah, And Jared Bowen too. Yeah And Andrea Ronocia, the that bad inter center that. And Niky to Yelovich Any? J they've started to impromptory R onn their own. haven? Andy Roberintson tweeted in twenty twelve. L at this age is rubbish with no money, hashtag need a job. Five years later,'s playainful it Incredible How about that? There we go Okay, well best of luck to all. I believe that And Rberinsons going to play spurs isn't he Heavily linkeds but not confirmed. Okay, heavily links. fine Uh Who wants to do a Rndo? Yeah Well ye. First, let's have an advertisement break. Enjoy those adverts High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face Unless you power up with a so far personal l A so far personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment It's even got suuper speed Since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you signed Visit sofi. com slash power to learn more. That's SoFi d. com slash PoW ER Moans originated by Sofi Bank NA, member FDIC terms of conditions supppply NMLS six nine six eight ny one Hey, okay, we're back from the adverts. Now it's time to play A Rndo. You you ready, JJ? Yeah are we going to be doing these over the summer and things off course. It's not like the last one of the season in. Well, I mean, it's the one of theremier League season. Would you feel more pressure if it is the last one of I feel like it would be a nice s time for me to not go out first. D't say it like that because people genuinely believe you're doing it on purpose. C reassure them that you're not You I really want to win it every single week. you have plenty of time. during the summer too. Oh, that's true. Ruben's not with us during the summer. O course. So it's not they're going feel like hollow victory. I know a bit like that the one with the players that played for Guardiola, I hadd written like I've been doing research on players that had played for him the most the week before that I'd forgotten all. Also we recorded a short that was like a really similar question like a few days before had, which is why Gabriele Jay Zus was so fresh in my mind Okay, right. hereere's how the Rndo works. I ask these guys a question that has multiple correct answers. We go round in a circle, they give me correct answers. If they give me an incorrect answer, they are rejected from the Rndo. JJ, that's been your problem recently. If they take too long, which hasn't been your problem, let's be honest, then I can eject them given my own feelings about it The final person standing is named Rondo Del Ray. there we go in today's category is as follow as this should suit you, Ruben. It should suit you Of course, we saw the other day on Friday that Thomas Tuchl announced his squad twenty twenty six Wellorld's cup But who was in the England squad for the twenty twenty two? O World Cup. Yeah. That's twenty six correct answers to this question. Yeah S the laptops. And JJ, I will be starting. with you, please give me the name of someone who was in the squad That wass the Qatar World Cup it was the Qatar World Cup. Yeah. Harry Kan Harry Kan was there Congratulations, you've made your pass the first round. A quuick madam applause for. are the fair acquaint isn't you John? Holly Watkin? Oolly Watkins was not there. you were out. F good.ave you done that on purpose? No? Did you genuinely believe that Oolly Watkins was there?. Are you sure? You're saying it now as though you want people at home to be able to give the option to the believe that you might have done that on purpose. I would believe that. Should we force him to continue playing Be genuine for one second. Say it genuinely, did you really believe that Oll Ws does that I believe him. Yeah, but's doing he's doing it in a deliberate way to upset me. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's doing that thing where it's like, you know, the audience at home won't necessarily be able to pick up on the subtleties of what he knows will upset me he's doing it now. It was a genuine answer now he's trying to make it Yeah. He want wants he's trying to buy himself a little bit of like, o no, John meant it on purpose because he didn't want to play. He's actually cooler than these guys. Yeah. You know, he just likes talking about tactics and those guys never let him do that. They're always interrupting him with boring bs Jordan Pickford. Jordan Pickford was there of course. Kaya. Aaron Ramsdale. Aron Ramsdale was there, of course. thirird goalkeeper. Well you can say any of them, D don'try,on't feel the pressure. don't it, do it.'t do it.'t do. What did you say? I said Pigfot. he said Rams. o. Makayo Saka. Yeah, Macayo Saka was there, of course, Ruben John Stones. John Stones was there. That's right. K Ky. Kyle Walker. Kyle Walker. Pet say was there was there Jordan, the water carrier Henderson. Jordan Henderson was there. Ruben ude Ballgham Yeah, Bellingham was there Harry McGuire. Yes, MagGuire was there Kiran Tripier. Kiran Triper was there, Absolutely Look sure. L sure was there Controversially Ben White. B Ben Bon White I B We I think I think we should only count players who stayed for the whole thing. Ben White was there. You can have him. ye JJ. back over to you. There are quite a number of people left Phil Forden, Phil Folden was there. off course he was against Wales. Of course he was. Now sometimes it's hard, isn't it? You get confused between the Europe the more recent Euros and the World Cup, but Phil Foldden was there in the World Cup U Mice amount. N mount.'s that? This is where're not fully paying attention to what other people has been saying kind of comes back to bite you because I don't rememember if certain names have been said. I think Marcus Rashford hasn't been said. You you all notice to this point that JJ's head is right be dramatically the other way J. Okay, Marcus Rashford Mcus Rashford. Yeahah, correct JJ There are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven players left. Wow Low as the players left. there's actually enough for a slightly uneven full eleven as well If you've just wanted to have three defenders and five midfielders? No, it's fine. I can think of all the players that are going to be there So Chust goalkeeper' still up for grabs. Yeah U He plays for your favorite. I don't yourour favorite team, who you support But who do I say you supp? No, I know, I know, I know, but who there? a goalkeeper? Oh I can't even think who that is. Do doesn't even know his names? What's his name again? I know who that is. Look Nick Pole There! It's good you said that my next clue was not so. Good on Crosses. B back to you to room JZack Gelish. Zack Reelish Krip. Kiran Trip has already been said. Y did you said out out now now. no! JJ Bull down to the final two. Here we go. Unfortunately, you're against the Encyclopedia of England. Yes. So I don't think you're going to win. I don't think I can win, but you're the best of the rest, whichich in a game with Ruben inn about England is the best position you could finish. And it's very similar to England's position is in W C. The best of the rest. Yeah. Okay, back to you, J Jes Okay, I'm going to take a stab in the wild C could give you some clues if you want. Yes, ye two l mean How many players left people K and his friends were veryly upset this player wasn't named player of the year U I do he Deckers Deckers Yeah I didn't even name it. I thought he'd been said even nameed. I thought it he'd been said. D right pay attention. You know it' been said tririppier. said I thought he must have been said as well U slowing down Cin Wilson Callen Wilson was there. sccored against Ration. I can't beat Rubin at any of these. I think you can. All right He wasn't picked this time U But the one new place R that I can think of who is English has been said.. The other one. The other one that just went there in the summer. No, that is too much. No just f dis! you still won't win. Yeah If I thought you could win, I wouldn't be doing think I think I've got one. Okay Rvven James Madison. James Madison was there. There were was it names left. ye. Het he didn't play. U there's probably someone from West Ham there, isn't there, Joe? must be Yes, I'll give a team. I'll give a team. This is wolves. There was a wolves b. Yes, of course My dad My dad was there The wolves player that was there, as we all know He is a very good player, very talented. And he's not there anymore. Unfunny. It's not there anymore,n't it? Yeah. And he he was very tall. Y. He was a lester for a bit. He loved the middle of that three, didn't he? Yeah it. Absolutely loved the middle of that. He's very good playing for wolves briefly Everton. Both of his names begin. I know who he is No, that's too many. Connor C. This is unfair on Ruben. I it is. Being tall was It was unfair on you to start with JJ. I can do it I'm struggling now because I know there is There's four names left. There's a couple of defenders that we haven't got. No, there's one defender remaining. There's two midfielders, there's one attacker. So okay, so that makes me think we only took surehore as left and I said him earlier And there were like three wr backs in. I think we famously only took one left back. Yeah. ye more than they took the following year. And there's one and we were only taking one this time and there's One midfielder left. There's two midfielders left. Okay I think one of those midfielders is Calvin Phillips. One of them is Calvin Oh, that's so good. I'm surprised you didn't get other midfielder to be honest Oh o A yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes Of course, Of course. Well Jefferson lo He was applauded off last night. White Hartlane, wasn't it? Everyone really appreciated his performance, White Hartlane. Yeah. And I watched that game and I remember who He's really done a job since coming back from Spain. pre I'm gonna give Jo. The previous season to this World Cup, he'd have been on loan at my team. Yeah from Chelsea.. And then he played letter Charlton from I'm not a awakerear Connard Galager. Yeah G of Gallaga. Okay, now back to you The defender. Oh and the third choice go. Okay there's another There's a defender left? Yeah yeah. And there's an attacker left Okay. Yeah. And and Oh. Ramling Ramterl. it is there it is. Okay. Also also scored in the first game, I think. now. In order for Ruben to win, you have to get it wrong and he has to get the final name on his own. so no more clues. It's a defender. It's a defender. Okay. cool And we've said all the other ones. so by the way, if you get this right, I'm going have to come up with some kind of tiebreaker Yeah cooaching stauff. So there was a massive head who scored corners on him. There was Jon Stones, who obviously was the passassy boy There was one left back. there was Kiran Tripier, he did all the free kicks I don' think tri be applied much. Conor Cody was the the coach on the bench. which of course leaves us with England's last offender twenty twenty two We'reld Cup, which as we know you've got three kicks. We've got Jhn Stones. Yeah. Harry McGuire and then Conor Cody. So it has to be someone between those play. It's a long list of. Okay. I'm going good. I'm going to get it. it was incredible. We have already said Ben White as well, obviously he has a dual position for So ask a question that might be a clue about who this person is Of course you can on Is this person left footed I think I had that in my head as well. So I think I know who it is but I'm fifty percent. Okay. I think that's a big clf you, JJ. It wass funny when you played at Byon wasn't Oh no no there's no effort. It is not myort man And you've just you've given given it, why? you've given it me. I assumed you already had it. Oh, I thought it was someone el. Well, I can get it th and that's annoying. was it Eric Der? It's Eric Dier, right. Okay. we're I can't believe you lost Rubre. I would never got. You bomb. You haven't lost. You haven'tost. It's Terry. We're going down now. I was thinking things. Yeah. that's why I was gonna to go We started at the Eururozone. John and I be back in play for the Tbak? Absolutely. You cannot be back in play Okay, H's what's happening now Five of England's top scores of all time Okay, back and forth. We'll start with you, Ruben. Harry Kaye. Yeah, he's number one. When Ry. When Ry's number two, back to you. Gary Linka. Gary Lina's number four. Jjo Are struggling with this No Has JJ already mentioned one of these players? No No more clues. No more clues for JJ. We've taken this tooart. We've created a monster JJ. Isaah name? five Fucking four Jeff Harst. No. Michael Owen? No. Oh my! they' inseparable. D I say one, can I take the crown? Yes. Bobby Charles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Alan Sher. No Well K Kaya's Rondo, Bill sure' not in there. No, not the top twenty eight, I think Jimmy Grees was the fifth Oh. Jimmy Gre. Well, this is failed. failed. I really I won that one lastge's incredible that. Anyway, that's the end of the Rndoa. Congratulations to Kaya Kyer. Thank you. who is named Rondo Del Ray. Wh that Okay, how long we've been recording, Steve? Fortty one minute. Well that sounds right, doesn't it? Okay. West Town we're relegated U sad Now, sound for me, of course,, Donald. because my sad for me because of my lunch related wager. as Steve writes, the twentieth richest club in world football will be playing in England's second tier next season After West Ham United were relegated on the final day, the hammers have melted down under the heat of the Premier League forge The irons have melted, wouldould that have been better Maybe. I do you feel I Yeah. The metaphor is really being stretched at this point, isn't it? Also, on, can iron melt? O iron melts other things, I guess. Do Iiron is an alloy, so it can it does melt can still melt doesnn't it? No, but sometimes things sort of crumble a bit, don't they become a bit crumbble. Like can of cheese. Yeah, like what a juice Differentpes of cheese. Wedesleydale And now willll have to be recast under the blowing bellows of the Championship. just to finish what Steve wrote there. It really is the end of the season and face the chance of your grounds too big for you every week. That's true player home. It very much will be, I think. Aid's the focus of a potential topam relegation. It's been lost slightly how much of an underachievement this was for West Ham considering their resources. S something I found very interesting. We talked about this briefly yesterday. we've talked about West Ham a little bit over the course of the second half of the season. And then I read Roshane Thomas' inside Read. published on AthAtic yesterday about West Ham Relegation. in fact about the whole season And it struck me how different it appears to be behind the scenes than I expected it to be as an ordinary person watching on. For example, I observed Nuno and the players together to be a warm group. And that doesn't seem to be the case in terms of their bonding rouben. There's I don't know, three to five fascinating things from this piece that I didn't know. I think No gets quite a warm he seems quite warm in his post match. S seemems like a nice guy. He's like a cool guy. He's the kind of guy you'd be like he should play Father Christmas at the Christmas part not just because of his beard. Not just because of what he looks like, but because of his characteristics exactly. Yeah ye. But yeah, there were some quite interesting details here, especially like Obviously he couldn't bring the coaching staff or all of them that he wanted due to like a legal dispute with Frest. I guess it's like something adjacent to a non compete. s of some kind. So he had a bit of a mishmash of coaching staff And sometimes like during one halftim, for example, Rashhane wrote that Nuno didn't speak to his players a lot at halfim which I find weird in itself they were losing to wolves. and one of his assistants attempted to give the players a rollicking because of the poor performance and Nuno told him to sit down. And then there was aated exchange.. So things like that. they lost a lot of leadership in twenty twenty four when people was like Chrresswell and Antonio fell and Fabiansky all left. I learned from that by the way, that Michel Antonio set the fines or fines for when players were late and stuff, which is fascinating. I was trying to think like what kind of impact that would have on the dynamic You know, ifer squad ye Yeah. obviously he was a captain, he was the top know top Premer Lague gol score, but he was also like one of the players. L if you showed up late to a podcast and I find you money, it would be different if it was like the company, you know, the ownership or whatever said, Ohh, well, you're not working. we're taking an hour off you or whatever. if I did it. Well you want the players to sef like self police, You have the manager like you tell people what to do often they don't like that. its just encouraged becausecause you're part of that what what's the word high standards yeah, this is what you do Yeah. As soon as you lose those players, like they're so important. You see that in Like Liverpool, you've seen that sort of thing leaving now. So then you lose what the standards maybe are and even the standards, it's just like how you act and behave, Man United lost that same sort of thing. it's like there's there's a note in there isn't a ribb that says, But when Antonio left the new players didn't even start a new WhatsApp If that old WhatsApp group is it still active which the old players who have left they now spine or their old team or whatever. And I say by the way, yesterday when we were here doing the live stream, I was sat on my desk over there and it's quite a tall, foamy thing, doesn't But it's sort of in the shape of a tall tree. And I looked up and James Richardson was staring at me halfway from behind the foamy thing. He was recreating the st stealing. It was great fun. But another thing that interested me from this piece was that players were they grew concerned about the lack of tactical preparation for games, which is not something you would automatically associate with Nuno. you would you think that he spends all of his time with them doing shape stuff, you know out of possession shape Th those players are so nerdy caring about tax honestly. And the players, but some of them believe that they were better at preparing for games under Potter. Right. Graham Potter was this season. Yeah, which seemss like a When I read the article, I was like, surely that was last season. Yeah I cant be right. And you know Nuno C can be quite cold despite what we said earlier about how he comes across in the media. And another example of that was kind of just telling James Wood Praouse who he'd had on loan at Forest and not used that he was going not be part of the first team anymore. Yeah Mbe a train on his own. Yeah. Soraight quuite brutal. and then you've got like executive board level stuff like Brady steuffing down there was like a lot of anger director towards them. Packatar wanting to leave after his whole, like he was exonerated of anything to do with that betting investigation, but his head wasn't in the right place. we wanted to go back to Flamengo. The Tedivo things' interesting as well, isn't it? Tidivo seemed to fall out with both everyone you know and different Grand P as well. And then like even Callon Wilson, who was told he could leave in January and then ye, but they end staying They had to keep him for a game or something. It was like, you're going to leave, but we need you for this game. I also scored several. Why would they I't know why they wanted to get reided But yeah So the N no thing hasn't worked. They now need to bring in at least one hundred fifty million pounds in sales this summer. a large chunk of which will come from selling Matej finanche. Yeah. I mean you would expect as well that you know, do you know how much Steve said he was worth before we started recording? How much any a wasth? Yes Yeaheses. Guess how much is the eighty million do? JJ Her I don't know Matos Fernandz, the West Ham?, No, I know him. Steve. They bought him for thirty eight, I think they did. Yeah. Young player, long term contracts. You give JJ manager JJ No No release courses. one hundred million Yeah Steve said one hundred twenty million dollars. Yeah, whichich they obviously won't get. They'll get. He never clarified what currency you invent.wion They'll get about they'll get about seventy for him. S but you would assume, but there's no release clause. There might be a bidding war. There might be a biding war. There's got no war. war between Steve and a football team But for a teens go down on thirty nine points, I think in the last fourteen seasons that would have kept you up. So if you look at that, you think, wow, this is unlucky. And I think most of us have seen West Tam's forms since January. This is why we're surprised by the Nuna stuff, right? if they're actually been pretty decent. They've been improving. Yeah You look at their transfers over the past like couple of years. Since David Moyys left in twenty twenty four, I've got I've got a bit of a game that we can play if you want to sort of hisiss hit and miss. Yes, please. with the West Town Trfer. So so what do you say? you say the name I'll say the name and I'll say the price tag. Okay. And then you guys say unison we say miss over and over again. right. The first one is a real doozy. So Max Kilman Miss forty seven and a half million euros. Oh outrageous. Cresentiia Somerville hit just thirty million year old. Hit K. thirty one year old Nicholas Falkg twenty seven milliones. Louise Guilleme eighteen twenty three million euros. I don't know how I ide do It was supposed to be really good. It it doesn't work as often it happens in the Premier League Ar Wambasaka seventeen point six million euros. Medium. You got to say. it's seventeen off United, I think that's a hit.es That's a good deal. Just for even for three or four of those track backack chs. It was great for a couple of Yeah. Aarently showed up late a few times though, didn't they Evan Ferguson on loan Oh, went the find a bit of adhesive apparently last. That's one of that seems as though it might have been hit because there was so much hype around him. Yeah In hindsight it looks bam. In hindsight is a missed but at the time it's hit I think It's alone as well. Carlos Soleron alone Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Where's he now? He's a R ra fussyad now, isnt he? Is he? Yes? Jean Clairibo Well it's been all right. It's been okay, but I mean also like, you know, seemingly falling out with both coaches and wanting to leave may be missed Its bad. yeah. Fer that as we said, Tati Castianos twice was good. Yeah. Great Pablo Hit, ye, fine. Medium. I think West fans would disagree. Medium hit. El Haji Malikjuf. Hit. He know. Mad Termon twenty million euros. I don't know who that is. call. Song Go to Magasa, seventeen million euros.. Adama Treor, two point three million e Hit simply for the story that he was beh B the Yeah. Yeah. also Well that'll make him stop. When I read that, I was like, he's just gonna lift them at home. He's just gonna come in less and lt them at home. Also when he goes, I'm going to lift a weightch you go. Yeah, okay, when you go there you go. I will say I'm slightly confused by There's been like I've seen a few clips from football punditry type people over the last twenty four hours who've said, unlucky, no, no. you can't be unlucky on the final day of the season. or you know any team that gets relegated can't be unlucky or' this weird football take on it They're definitely unlucky. I mean, you've already mentioned the points total thing. I think they' unlucky. that I think they are like I said this on yesterday's show, so I won't labor the point Sundon finishing seventh is unlucky for any team that gets relegated. You can't expect that to be to be the case, right? Forerest being the third team in the relegation battle for that final place, unlucky because they're a really, really great squad. Crystal Palace not deccking in the way you might have expected them to Brentford, not doing what you might have expected them to under Keith Andrews after Thomas Frank left, Spurs being the team that you're fighting for that final relegation position. And who are the other team? Les down Yeah leads like having an incredible second half of the season. All of those things are unexpected things that happened that you might Okay, sometimes things like that happen. but Often all of those things don't happen all at the same time. Yeah You might have expected one of those teams to be in the relegational sattle as well a decent form in the second half of the season. So they They stacked the beginning, they brought in a new coach and they actually did probably enough Yeah. if they'd played that way for the whole season to be The truth is there were two shitits teams in the Premier League this season and then there was a third team that went down. Yeah. But I think they're a cautionary tale of for lots of kind of U mid table Pmier League teams of how with the league being as competitive as it is, you're only a couple of bad transfer windows away from getting relegated in the current day and aays. That wasn't the case before. You could afford to have a few dud years in the window. but You don't get that kind of luxury anymore, and they'll be ike like Nottingham Forest where your Europ League last season Europer League this season could easily have gone down this season. like you a few bad signings away from going down. I think every mid table team will be looking at West Ham thinking this could be us. There's also like a few results that stand out from their season that like you say, thirty nine points normally enough to stay up, especially in the last few years when the three releate promot teams have gone straight down. They lost three Niled wolves And there was a Monday night football at Selhurst Park when Palace were really not up for it having just played in Europe and they drew Nil Nil They should have just stamped on them and got another three points, but they didn't But if they'd held that two no lead against Chelsea then they wouldn't have been rele against. And obviously you can you can make this exact same point for basically all of Spurs's season. Yeah. So Ales, there we go. And I'm sure we'll see Westown again. And of course, it does mean that there'll be some West Hown Millwld Derbies in the championship next year, Isn't that be fun? So that willll be fun for everyone involved. Now. time for another breaks, Steve Please. Yes. Advert High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face. Unless you power up with a so far personal loan A so fi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got suuper speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you signed Visit sofi. com slash power to learn more That's soFi d. com slash PW E L loans originated by Sfi Bank NA, member theIC Terms and Cnditions Apply andMLS six nine six eight ny one Okay, we're back from the break. There we go. What is left to come? Well, next up, we're going to talk about leads after that. longong awaited Points are bad. Final day the conclusion of one of the world's longest most pointless games. But is it pointless when you can be awarded Such fine feterers this. Look at the delight. Do remember this from last year? It's the points of bad trophy. It says pointos of bad They're really, really bad. I've won this I won by the one one bx last season, wasn't it? That was me, I was the one one boot. And then I spawned myself off much as I would have done in a sci fi film. You did that? I spawned myself and the one one bot separated out from me. So this has been sat on my desk on the windowsill next to my face for the last year. And today I hope to re gift it to myself, but we will have to wait to see. We'll find out shortly. Before we get there Let's talk a little bit about Leeds United, Leeds who had a rather remarkable season in the end. Now right, Steve, at the beginning of the season, many of us were expecting the relegation battle to once again prize, those recently promoted teams from the championship. and of course, that included John's brave boys Leeds United, but not so. The Yorkshireman finished in fourteenth and a cool eight points clear of the drop. There we go. It was kind of a fascinating season for Leeds, wasn't it? seemingly, characterized by one one formation change and then everything was fine, John Yeah, I know I'm simplifying you You are But ye, the story is that there was a shift that was made at a point where leads were looking pretty precarious. Yes. ahead of a run of games against Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea Chelsea and Liverpool in that order And yeah, at that point in time, leads were looking very much in danger of dropping into the relegation zone. and Daniel Fc was giving a bit of an ultatum that if he didn't pick up If he didn't pick up points in that run of games, which is, you know, a horrible run of games really. then then he was going to likely to face the sack. But and it didn't look good, right? Half halfime in the Manchester city game and lead lead leads down and then they actually they do end up losing that game. but then second half they had that that shift of approach from FAa. and they put in a pretty spirited performance and they relied on a I think it was Phil Fden goal right at the end Man City to actually carry that one through. That was then followed up by a game against Chelsea where where leads were physical and causing all kinds of problems in the way that Chelsea have struggled with teams who are physical against in this season and that was a comfortable win. And then again, against Liverpool went to knil down and then came back to all. I mean, Liverpool did their best to help us out in that one. and from that point onwards, yeah, the season the season changed. And I guess the narrative would be that And we talked about this throughout the season, but the for the last year Before Les were in the Premier League they had they'd appointed an analyst whose sole job was to just work on the problem of how do you survive in the Premier League after a promotion?. And Yeah, they the squad that they then built was based on the findings that they had in in that in that period for whichich is a very a very sharp way of working. I mean, the thing that interested me so much about Lu season was at the beginning of the season He didn't seem as though there was some kind there was a little disconnect between the coach. and then the rest of the footballing plan, right? Because Daniel Farer, it took him a while to adjust his playstyle to the style that they eventually found, which seems to suit the squad and the players that they brought in, which seems to suit the plan for how to stay in the Premier League. It wasn't media. Yeah, and you know, it's difficult, right? Because when you I mean, all of this begins two years before that, right? when when the forty nineers conglomerate buys up the club and then they start implementing certain things they want to do. But they hiire Daniel Falin in that summer. That's very early on before they've really got their feet under the table. And you know, they don't have experience of running They have experience of running sports clubs. they don't have experience running football clubs, right? So they bring in Farka and and then there's the two seasons. we just drop off at the end of the first season out of the and lose in out of the automatics and lose in the in the playoffs to Southampton. And again, you can make the argument that that was actually a good thing in the long run because it gave, you know, another year to work on on plans and but then the following season, yeah, comfortably go up, but you're implementing you're implementing a manager who's a specialist at getting promotions, but also is playing a very different type of football in a promotion battle then they're going to be playing in a relegation battle, right? And so FAa, you know, they lead to get one hundred points under FAa in the promotion season and it's very hard for you to then change your plan, right or your approach. It may have been the case that they would have thought You know, this guy isn't a relegation survival specialist, right? in the way that he's a promotion specialist Do we bring someone else in? And I think The difficulty that you then talk about at the beginning of the season is that you're going through the teething pain of having kept that coach and having to get him on board with the task the wider club has been working towards. And yeah, you know, it took him within a few Halves a football away for him getting the sack for him to get to get the message. But then from that point onwardss it's worked really well. I think this is a triumph of of recruitment and smart running of a club in many respects because I think, you know, there's a lot of coaches who come in and do that very thing. and then when they have to make that shift, they don't have the squad there who can make the, you know, actually survive that kind of tactical tweak. So the club seem to preempt Yeah, exactly And And so in many respects, I think Well done to the recruitment department, well done to the club, the ownership and well done to the analyst who you know, is working on the problem how to sort of survive the Premier League because they've done it quite comfortably. What was the change? What did they actually I think it I think it was much more less less like a it was a formation change, but I think, you know, they've work they've shifted between different formations anyway and you know, formations are just it's a structure that you will go to. I think it was more of a mood shift in terms of what how are we trying to cause teams problems It became a lot more physical th? Yeah, and then they they l into the physicality, right? And so the formation headline was that they changed from a back fourall system to a five three two, right? Yeah. And yeah. And they started, I think, leaning into ball progression in wide areas in particular. they have Jaden Bgel and Gabrielle Goodmansson as the wingbacks in that system and they've both both been really important because they're that they're doing the majority of the bard progression, they're doing lots of carrying and just doing like one one, two quick bounce passes in the wide areas to just get in behind opposition defenses. Dominant Calbert Lew the striker just getting balls into the box to him. He's a fantastic offball mover. so he's getting into really dangerous scoring positions. What free signing. he's turned out to be. Yeah. Yeahah. and then just in games just being willing to go direct more than they were. I think Farka wanted to wanted to possess the ball and, you know, I guess there's a sense in which he, you know, you can possess the ball when you're in a promotion race but it's been much harder to to that for in the Premier League whenam is the shift more like taking a game to them rather than sitting back and waiting. So like rather than waiting for the space to appear than going into it, they're sort of going to the other team more like I think making the game more chaotic. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, there's a lot of teams who come up and they're like, okay, now we're in the big league. we have to you know, try and control games when trying to' smart and like calm it down. Yeah right. When actually if you a lot of the And you know if you watch leads games, like often they will They will not be particularly impressive for long stretches, but then they have these bursts of intensity. They defend really well, particularly in mid block, low block And then and they can keep teams away from them, but then they have these periods where they just go for it. they'll go long,'ll they've got runners off the off dominant Calaloon so he can go long. less relentlance like what Newcastle do where it's constantly going for. Yeah, right. where it's a little bit more kind of picking your moments to go and there's been so many games. I mentioned the Liverpool game where they were two nilled down and then they they turned that one around. There was a game against Chelsea again where they were two nilled down a half time and then had a period. I mean, they had two chances, maybe one and a half chances in that game and they ended up coming out to two drawers. And I think that's what it was more about. I think Daniel Falker's instinct was Oh let's try and do proper football and control the game. But when you do that against teams with better players, you end up Al almost always struggling and losing. Whereas if you say, well, we're going to cause you problems in the way that you want to set up, we're going to cause a bit of chaos. We're going to use the player profiles that we have, which is lots of ball carriers and you know lots of physical players. so you can go along, win second balls, then you'll have much more of a benefit from the players at your disposal. I think that's the interesting thing, right becausecause you know, Farka said, this is about ten days ago now this was on the fifteenth and I'm reading reading these quotes It's from a press conference, I'm reading them from the BBC Faray said, he madeicallyly said there's no doubt in my head that he wanted to stay on as as manager. because there had been a couple of comments which had made that little confusing as to what he wanted But he also said the following, I'm ambitious and this is quite important for me going forward. I love attractive football, perhaps besides in the top half of the table, but I love to be a manager who plays for something rather than to avoid something. I'm not the right choice if it's about maintaining the status quo. I have to be convinced of a project and am at my best when I buy into a project, I can be picky and choose what I'm convinced of, which very much to me sounds like he doesn't want to continue playing the same style of football next season. It I mean, it's an interesting and in some ways privileged thing to say as a coach of a team that have stayed in the league Seemingly on that maybe this is a bit of, you know, retro analysis, but seemingly as a result of a decision that they made at a club level to play in this particular way, which took a while for Daniel Faler to actually accept through the league. And now that they now that they've done well, he, you know, cynically, one could read that as like accepting the appudits for for a successful season, which is fair enough within his rights to do so but then saying that he wants to move on from there. mayaybe that's should be true in two or three years time, but like I would worry if I was a leadeeds fan if they tryed to change up how they're playing immmediately next season then they might just go down. I think this is really relevant all the Premier League because there's so many there' be so many analysts and managers who like what Les have done and what I don't know if you could argue's Arsenal done, but you work out how to break the game, like how you can win, where do you get the benefits? And it's going to be similar ways. That's how you break the game. And so leads are the second most relied upon for goals from set pieces. and scored likety two point seven percent the numbers earlier.. Spurs were thirty nine point six percent of the goals came from set pieces I think what we'll see in the World Cup is a lot of A lot of managers are prepping for penalties and set pieces is what they they're going to score so much from that because everyone's so good out possession, but because everyone's so good and so physical and if you play it that leads you super physical like Newcastle, it' super physical then you end up just it's very hard to score. So everyone's finding it very hard to score open play now. so they work out how to score pieces And so you'll get that's what happens. And then play managers you want to play attacking or entertaining football, it's very hard to do unless you have amazing individual players. Yeah. like even Arsenal camp which with respect leagues don't have. Well no, exactly. And then that's you can see the levels and variance that you get in those sorts of places. And that's there's a point I'm going to remember in a second I want to come back to, but that's probably somethingomet we'll see going forward. I think the irony here as well is that the reason why leades will be sticking with Ananiel Farker is because they want continuity, right? And And so yeah, I guess that's which he doesn't want. Well ye., I don't want the status quo Yeah. Yeah And I think it's a tricky one for teams in that position, right? Because you want survival and you want to become a solid But if you lean too far into building the kind of team that gives you solid chances of survival, it then becomes incredibly difficult to to work away from that and become a team that hits the top half. Yeah. I think Palace is sort of a team who have done that, right? where that there has been that emphasis on we've got to become a solid Premier League side, but you then get thirteen place finishes over and over and over again. And the difficulty then is, oh, who do we bring in to make the shift to this other style of play. We talked about West Ham doing this. They've just gone down. It's the difficulty, I think of that kind of approach where the continuity almost becomes self serving. You just have to constantly go through the repetition of and at some point, I think you just have to make a bold decision Just win the FA Cup. that's into to Europe and then the conference league and then the EurA League and then and E ensline and D on Aola, right? It's all done. I remember I was going to say it's sort of the back of that as. So like Because now I'm Extraplolate a little bit. So like Arenal are now doing a very elite version of what like smaller clubs might do by focusing on the small things and stuff like that. And there was something Guardiola said in his post match to their stadium stuff, like how much fun it was. It's been fucking a fun. It's been fucking fun. Yeah. But like hes that's why we're here, you know, for the entertainment for the fun. He said things like that, not exactly that bit I think I'm reading into it too much, but it's almost like he's leaving now just at the exact time when compete like City Drew was at nine games, you know, they were seventy eight points is probably his lowest since he joined was it so one out of it. Yeah. So you know, if it's changing a little bit again now and where people are going to go, what you have to be able to do like they scored the fewest goals from set pieces M man more percentage of their goals for set pieces. they they still scored something. But like if that's that goes is maybe that's not for him either. So it' the right time to go is now for him because it's a new era of whatever that is. Yeah. And so then that's we'llbe see. I want to be remembered for being beautiful. Yeah. sad for me. Now there we go. that was Leeds and a little bit of palace sprinkled in there as well. There'll be plenty of time between now and the Wor Cup. talk about other teams that we've perhaps neglected somewhat throughout the season, so we will make sure to do that. But for now Something very, very important. is on And the horizon is here. What's that called? What's that band? called Bring me the horizon Yes got to cut that out. wow. got cut something got cut Steve there. S dirty got cut. Anyway. what do we we're playing Pos are bad and of course this is hugely consequential and important because it's the final points are bad of the season. You see here, this is the points of bad trophy and today it will be awarded to the winner. Now, what we have to do today is going to take a little wee little bit of time. There were two final weeks of game predictions that we need to account for the results of So Steve, would you be able to walk me through what the standings are, the League standings are, including those two prediction results before we get to talk about our leeague predictions? Of course, yes. So final two rounds, as Joe says, and those predictions included Newcastle's win over West Ham, Man City's victory in the F Cup final against Chelsea. Oh forgot about that. And then the week after, Asenal was a away win against Crystol Palace And Villa's surprise away win away to Manchester City. And would it be fair, Steve to say that there'll be probably relatively little change here because the table was a little bit set in stone, however the league could change everything. Absolutely, that would be correct to say, Joe, veryery correct to say. I love saying correct things. Now Steve continue. Okay, across those two weeks, you all accumulated The following. Kaya, well, and proxies, got eleven across two weeks. so damn. Thanks, Steve, Yeah. And Grayson, I think so, you. John got ten. Oh J and proxies Joe. Now this is just himself, Joe. this is just you. Nine. Not bad.re happy with two weeks. That's good. ten's bad mine's JJ at across M done. prettytty good. Reuben six two weeks is actually pretty good. Oh my God. So is Reub in first? We shall see the one one Bx five across two weeks. So Ruben coming close reg. Therefore, he is disregarded, it is disregarded. Does this mean we have a massive asterisk on Joe's win last year, by the way? No of course the fact that we have now proof the house's like winning on set pces. Why do you think rules get introduced?? Be ye, I don't' change everything You are Micel Marino at the cor everyone is putting those asterisks in their head. Listen, man, I just what all we're saying is I worked out with the most ruthless efficiency how to win the game early I am Nicol Artes and I will have my trophy and any change of rules to his own game Exactly, and we'll see what consequences. I changange the rules to prevent myself from winning again. It would be if Micola went and changed the pogmall rules about corners, which would never happen. I'm an honorable man. Now Steve. Taking the final rounds of scores in the regular season calling into account in last place JJ Bob. Oh JJ. one hundred and fifty nine points Second from last. on one hundred and fifty six points. It's Joe Dvine my. you so neillly caught me over the last few weeks. And then Th points ahead of Joe. Yeah Jointly ye John Mackenzie and K. That's so close. You've really caught up, JJ. You were so bad. I mean I was you're only six point He note. donon't look really let go the past, but you were only six points back then So eleven ahead of Kya and John on one hundred and forty one points Ruben Pinda. Okay, it's not over though. And then the one one bought one hundred ten points so ye miles ahead. However, if points of bad ended at this stage as you rightly say Joe, it did last year when you won it Ruben would of course be the points of bad for anotherason a minute. You can hold this for a minute Yeah until well no, because if I win again I want to be able onlyly winers can touch it. That's true like the world got I'm winner. shouldould we give a little round pause to Ruben for his, you know? Well For winning all the quizzes mean ye that stage. She hasven't won anything yet. Okay. And to mention at this point the gap from Ruben to JJ is eighteen points. That seems significant when he says it like that eighteen points Yeah And of course, this season thingsings do not end here. Can I explain how this works, Steve? Of course. Okay. so what we did on it wasn't quite day one. I think we waited until the transfer window was closed before we did this, which is fair. And if we do the same thing next year, we'll do that again But we all submitted one to twenty our complete predictions for the finishing positions of every team in the Premier League and we submitted those to Steve independently of each other, privately of each other And then we forgot about We haven't look at John, you were about to look back last night and I said, No John. Surprise yourself tomorrow. You know, we've tried to be honorable about this. We want to be surprised. Now here's how it works. If I had said, for example, Arsenal would be third, but they finished first in reality, then third is one, two positions away from first. That's two points added. So for every single team and position. you got that JJ. look. Yeah. So I imagine Many of us would have put Chelsea higher than tenth. If someone said Chelsea would be third, then that's seven points away from where they actually finished, that's seven added. I did an example to show Steve how to work this out yesterday. I just did the top five in a normal hypothetical situation, and I think the hypothetical player added sixteen points just from five teams the gap of eighteen between JJ and Ruben could be This is veryitch. So it's goldennitchy. But having said that, it is likely that many of us picked similar positions for our teams. So it could be golden snitchy if you've made an outlandish prediction that came off. in all likelihood. There probably isn't that many points in it. So Steve, over to you. don I don't know the results of this, by the way, so I'm so excited Tell us, Steve Who's done what? And actually you're gonna you're going send us one by one. So if you guys open Sack as well you'll see Steve's going to send us one by one the league so we can take a look predictions. So who do we do first Steve? We We go again from last to first and it's a complete Reversal of fortunes for Ruben Pinda. Oh is Ruben came last time No. This is Ruben, talkal us. talkalk us through, talkalk us through this. Well I got the top two O one off each, right? That whatever. Yeah I didn't expect Liverpool to drop down so bad, overrated Chelsea by quite a lot. They finishing tenth is great in fifth. Hey, they finished fifth under Angela. I thought they'd bounce back. Oh that is a dreadful takeough isn't it Jesus? The Sundnderland in nineteenth has really hurt you as well. That's I'm sure everyone puts Sundnderland low down, but you added twelve points there Wow, good Lord. Okay. So that's eighty eight points added in total. Does that mean that Rubin is in last place We'll see We'll see So we have we haven't confirmed that he's in last place. No. Last place in this section of the tournament. Oh just it's last place in a league, but not necessarily in the overall. Yeah. He's a reigning champion currently in the regular season. Okay this Premier League predicted table playoff. Okay Oh, I did the worst in just a league. Exactly. D did you get any correct? I don't think you did No, not single one ero correct prediction Okay, who's next,eve Wow You know how I said John and Ky were level after the main season? Incredibly No Nice John and Kaya both got eighty six point. six That banana.. Okay, so. Ping goes over to you now Zak Ka first. and interestingly for Kaya. Suddenly eighty eight doesn't sound so bad. There are a couple of perfect predictions in there for Kaya, so it is confusing that he got. You could tell you ar first. Oh you nailed West Ham. Yeah West Ham to go. Yeah Absol. I think city third, that's bold in retrospect. You put Liverpool second and then John, John, you got Man City perfectly. You did say you thought Liverpool would win the le. That one didn't happen unfortun. So what I need to say is that we just a day before, I think, done the show on our predictions. That was my actual prediction. done the athlet show. Yeah yeah. and I changed quite a lot here. You'll notice I put Everton in the relegation zone to piss off Steve. You was getting closer and closer as the season went on to be honest. You also put Brentford down there, which earned plus ten points on say. But I had I had Arsenal to stay up in the in my I sorry to win Okay they stay up none of them. None of us thought wolves would go down. No, mad. No. So so that's plus eighty six for both John and for Kaya. who's next? Next up Yeah, someone who isn't afraid of making bold predictions on a game per game basis, but in terms of the table come incredibly close Kyr and Jhn And that is J JJ Book. I want the thinging who got eighty four points. J JJ Book JJ Did you get any perfect predictions? No, no perfect predictions. Zilch perfect. It the one though.ot the most perfect so far was a trophy for me. Look at that Yeah. so Newcastle in fourth plus eight, that one's hurt you there That' hurt you And also Bournemouth in fourteenth plus eight, that's hurt you as well. rantford in eighteenth, plus nine, that's hurt you generally spe a lot of ones and tw'os. I think without a perfect prediction, you did pretty well here. Everyone has spurs in the top seven Yeah. New Castle in fourth though, JJ Do you know I was thinking then? He's not seeaking those other gast. All right, Steve, come on. show me how well I J. So obviously we know that Je was top in this section of the game. I'm gonna get a separate little trophy. Just for me. o a shop. Uh Joe Divine. How well did I do pretty well You got seventy two Oh my go Wha who That' so good. Man. What was my wor? Okay, so Spurs was my worst with plus eleven I had them at six an. So you gained fourteteen. Wow. Sundon thirteenth is a very good showot. So I got Fulambang, Bang on and eleventh, I got Arsenal first. I put Liverpool second. Wow, there you go. How about that? Okay Incredible news. Why are you so sure Snderland would be fine I don't know. I think I just like Sund. I think it's because I the last time Sund them were in the Premier League, I just liked them as a team. and the David Moyys Leee Catamwal team. Yeah suppose. Yeah there you go. So I got West Ham and Burnley corrected relegated, Wolves two points off. How about that? There you go. I'm good at the arbitrary game. Now at seventy to point that's quite a lot less. So I'm say is arbitrary Joe. Am I moving up to the table Final standings. And those in the audience who have gotten miracle nowouse may have already figured this out. People won't believe it if I want to. I don't believe it. This is Rg. And last d. Dig Bs hundred and forty three bes.. As mentioned, in joint points two hundred and thirty eight for John Kyi, which puts them second hand holding for the whole year. Okay. Well done. What's I haven't done the math, so I can't work up the maths Steve just two hundred and twenty nine points. Don't Divine in second place is Ruben P away Robs. Asute any way I swear to God I didn't cheat. I swear to God I didn't cheat. Stve I don't trust this. Steve tellell them I didn't two hundred and twenty eight. A single point. Single point