Arne Slot Leaves Liverpool

What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance What if an insight in data could change everything At ArAMco, our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world becausecause margins aren't marginal There' where we can truly push the limits of what's possible RMco an integrated energy and Chemicals company Learn more at arramco. com This episode of the TFo Football podcast is sponsored by Boss, businesswar provider for the US men's National soccer team Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply worn, it's earned Boss understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest, constant refinement, precision in every stitch. and as the US men's national team steps into the spotlight on home soil, Boss is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forwards with confidence, express their individuality, and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring fromom Boss Performance And soccer fans, Boss has you covered too, whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in boss performance, or show your pride from the stands, in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colours and badges. Own the moment with confidence. Dcover the Boss pererformance collollection, as worn by the US men's national soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos, and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own boss at boss. com or at your nearest boss store Marketers, no matter what pitch you play on, a big win feels the same Electric. It's that moment when you read the play before the trend even starts. Beat the clock on a campaign with a little help from AI And connect with customers in real time, like you've trained for it your whole career That's contentful. Wld class digital experiences built fast, built beautifully Create and launch personalized content in an instant accross every channel your customers are watching No chaos, no limits, just open theme Take your shot at contentful. com Hello and welcome to the TFO Football podcast. I'm Joe Deivvine and today I'm delighted to be joined by John Mackenzie. Hello, Joe. All right, buddy, how's it going? I'm alright, How are you? I'm okay, but I fear That the oaness of our fellow friend and guest here, Kaya Kainak may be slightly less okay than you're okay. What do you do you think be tr I feel as though my okaness is impinging upon him and I feel guilty for it. I feel guilty for being okay. Yeah, I know. I don't know and listen, I want listeners of the TFa football podcast to know that I was spiritually supporting Arsenal in the second in extra time in injury time An extra time. Yeah. very time. But I too feel a little guilty for being basically fine that they didn't win. but K Kaya Kyak. Yeah Are you okay? I'm fine. He's fine. He's not fineine He's not fine really, but it's okay. It was a big moment in his life. It was the first ever Champions League final that you've been in, wasn't it No, I remember two thousand six. You don't remember two thousand six. You were born in twenty seventeen or something, weren't you? Yeah, yeah, but I was live streaming in two thousand six. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Well there you go. So you have some experience of losing in the Champions Leag four. Been there, done that less Chaotic than that last one then Um Yeah, the last one was kind of wild because obviously it was the red card early doors and then weirdly asked to actually kind of played better and probably could have won it and should have won it a dis allallowed goal my head. Hey,y hey this is still the intro. D't be talking about football sorry finished. Sorry Any talk about football at all anyway. I was just welcoming Kayia, that's all. Yeah. And before we get started, can you just putull your micro down slightly because yeah, I just want to make sure that we don't cover your My beautiful. There we go yeah I want to be able to see that mouth. Now. Okay Now I can see it Right, that's it. So I'm joined by John and Kya. Now, what did we talk about on today's podcast? Well, we haven't done it yet. We're live, whichich means that we do the introduction at the beginning of the show. although things that I expect we will discuss. PSGB Arsenal in the Champions League final, didn't they? That did happen. So we're going to talk about that on today's show. It was decided by penalties. So we'll talk about the penalties. We'll talk about the fact that David Ryer was diving far too early for Kaya's life. Yeah. That will definitely be part of the conversation alsoso it's a shame that's been lost to the sands of timeime because The one he did save, I was so adamant in the fact he dived early in the right way. So he was also the only goalkeepper who's made a save in that Yeah It's true. Yeah, as think Gabrielle both put thoses out over the bar widen't they? Now the reason Kai says that it's a shame that's lost to the sounds of time is because today we rec where we were live for our first ever TFO watch party or watch along. I haven't decided yet which of those I prefer little thumbatch watchatch along, I think. Watch along. Yeah.atch Well, you don' didn't feel much like a party for you, that might be one. Anyway, so what that means is that on YouTube, we were live throughout the game. It wasn't hugely entertaining, but we were watching it and people watched it with us. We're now recording our live podcast in the aftermath of that So that we'll be talking about that game. Other things we'll talk about, does this send a message about how football should be played by the elite teams going forward? I don't know that it does, and that is a point that was written before the game began. so who knows? And then also in the second half or perhaps a little bit more in the second second half, on a slot. H hasb been f he's left Liverpool, no longer the Liverpool manager and as David Ernstein reports, and Donnie Iriola is the clear favourite for the vacant Liverpool head coach job although there are others In that conversation as well. So we will be talking about that too. Plus, I believe prodroucer Nathan, although he's without a microphone, he does have a Rndo. Is that true? Yes. He says yes. How about that? Now have I missed anything things that sounds about covered at all? yeah. Don't shrug like that. Normally when I do it, Steve goes, Now you're fine. Yeah. Exactly. That's the kind of encouragement that I want. Producer every producer Nathan just shrugged at me Like I was nothing Like I haven't already, been broadcasting live for over three hours There we go. Now after this bit of music, we will begin our podcast Now let's begin with PSG one brrackets four Dash three end brackets one Arsenal It was a big old game of football. O course it was the Champions League final of football and it was decided by penalties Ka I'm going to come to you first for something good. So's no longer immediate but like near immediate reaction. Yeah What was your impression of the game? and if you want to, you are also I'll give you this I'll give you this like a free pass once to be a bit of a fan and say well done to your boys. Yeah, I mean, like obviously the game couldn't have started much better for Arsenal. They the game plan would have been to try and lure PSG up the pitch if possible and maybe exploit that a bit. They got a bit of fortune with the way it bounces off Truside into Havertz's path but Haverts took the chance immediately Amazingly, it was a fantastic finish. I mean, it's a really, really good goal Really high quality and you said the XG was something like zero point zero three or zero point one three It was nero point one two XG, but he turned it into ner point six four post shot expected goals, which means that he's taken a low value chance and made it very high value. There you go. There you go. And it was yeah, a top quality finish from a player who's done it before in the Champions League final. and For a long time, it felt like it might make it might be the decisive moment in the game. Arsenald, I think defended really well in the first half. Yeah I thought Piers she were John's done videos in the past on how PSG struggle sometimes to break down really tightly packed low blocks and I thought Arsen were pretty good at that. I thought they defended really well in the first half. PSG didn't really have too many chances that I could think of and it felt like the game would kind of continue like that and peter out. Arsenal opened up a bit more in the second half and I think maybe Micaeta deserves a bit of credit for that in a way because he's a manager who's often criticized for for not doing that Exactly for negative football and for holding on to results. but I don't think he did that. I think he went out to try and win the game in the second half That set that said, I think maybe that opened up a bit of space and PSG started coming on ono us in a little bit more Even with all that It's an individual error from Christian Moscara that flips the tie. Back even it was a really tight game and I don't think Arsenal played badly. We'll have conversations now on the way they approached it, whether that was right or wrong, but I don't think you can level a poor performance arsenle whereereas don know The last final there was the carabel cupfal and I thought they they played really badly in that. Yeah. tonight, I think, you know, you leave playing I think this is the way Arsenal could have expected to approach the game and I think they kind of played it as well as they could And yeah, I think, you know, sometimes it just doesn't go your way in aon shoots out. and I'm proud of my boys to quote you earlier. half the time it doesn't go the way you want in a penalty shootout. I think that's the reality of Yeah penalty shootout unfortunately. In fact, it was good to be with a level headed Joh at that moment. The penaltty shootout started and John simply said, Well, I'm almost, you know I don't understand how neutrals become emotionally invested because it feels to me like a bit of a coin flipp, whichich at the time take some of the steam out of the drama, but retrospectively also I think you know it just means that like it could haveone Os's way, it could have gone PSD's way. Who the hell no? Yeah. And my point there is more that it feels It feels harsh to just you know, give this is a tournament which has been going on for like nine months. Yeah. It's take an incredible amount of effort from an incredible amount of teams and officials and you know, the logistics is wild for it to get to the end of the game without a clear winner and then say we're now literally going to give you a that theyre sort of it can go over. Yeah, and you know, obviously you win the penalty shootout by having the players to do that, right? And I suppose Arsenal had to go with Gabrielle as their fifth penalty taker. So But at the same time, it does feel it feels as though it's harsh to award the whole trophy to one team on the basis of that sure. Well, they have awarded it to PSG the second season in a row. John, what do you think is the tactical story of this game? It's K has touched on some of it already. It's quite interesting and a little bit unlike what we've seen from Arsenal at timimes this season. Yeah, I think so. I mean, there's so many narratives that hang off this game Um, generally speaking, I think. I remember last time aroundound went into Lost five Nil It became this whole narrative about the state of Italian football U And I think going into this one, we all expected it to be some kind of I suppose divine revelation about what elite football should look like. We're going to talk about that a little bit more, but we have two teams who adopt very different approaches to controlling a game. I mean you know, the crude person myself might say it's the best out of possession team in the world against the best in possession team in the world. Well the unstoppable, whatever it is. I meanable the unstoppable sting the im movable st. You know my name means Rock in Turkish it Kiam means rock in Turkish. Wow. Yeah. How about that? What's your favorite kind of rock U, I like an igneous rock. Yeah. Igeous? I like a sedimentary. Really? I think they're the only other type of rock I know. What about you, Do do you know any other rocks, John? Brighton Rock. Yeah Brighton Rockck? Yeah. that great? Gain the Rock Johnson? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But Nathan, if you're listening, please don't prepare a rock based runck. I will fail Joined to carry on talking? Would I like you to carry on talking? Yeah. let me think about it for a second. So I basically gonna wait, I'm still thinking, hold on, hold on. just one more Yes, I think I would. O. So yeah, but I'd like you to do it in an accent, now I'm getting G on the unstoppable force meets the immovable object or whver it is, right? Yes that's the line And you know, the procession stats. testify to that. so seventy five percent possession to PSG Arsenal, as Kya said, their job was to stop PSG from scoring tons of goals and the way that PSG score tons of goals usually is in these transition moments And for me that that was the story of the game really.' Arsenal in the first half didn't allow any transition moments to occur actuallyctually I was there one right at the end? No that was in the second half, was? There was one of the second half? Yeah. I remember because you said, this is exactly what you don't want to happen while Kaya was freaking out. It's like you know it's like you were watching someone in the dentist. I just can't help. And then you were Oh, that looks like a painful drill. The claw The talons No theyre getting out the talons on the talons, dentist. Yeah. But you know before the game the conversation was does defending work against these kind of teams, right? When you have a lineup that's stacked like PSGs? Yeah it's hard to know where you do because the argument being that it doesn't, they're too good and therefore you this approach can't work. Right The idea being, you know, if you sit deep, then they'll eventually break you down and be a bit more proactive, then they'll find ways through you. And the interesting story, I suppose was that in the first half Arsen were very reactive and they were happy to after they got their goals sit in deep and prevent PSG from really having any chances just to have a look at the First half expected goals and PSG only put up zero point two six to arsenals. I thought PST three either were bad or were very well nullified in the first half. Yeah. and look it's you know the reason why teams in the past used to use low block en counters against better sides is because it's very hard for an elite side there's a fly attacking me. it's very hard to break down a low block, even if it's not necessarily a a great team defensively, if they are disciplined enough they can there's two flies. It's the same flies are. there is two. there is two. Yeah. It's very hard to it's hard as long as that team are defensively He was so far away from you. As long as you're so well structured and you're disciplined and you retain your concentration, you can make it very hard for an opponent to break you down. Now the problem is is that if you do that, what you're doing is you're giving the initiative to the opposition. terrified that the is going to hit me. I just don't know where these flies have come from. We've been here for hours and they weren't before. We let some flies in from outside of the flies. I've been there from the studio next door where a totally football show are? that's totally people and their flies, heh The issue is that you hand the initiatives to the opposition. and if you do that to a team like PSG, then you would think that you know they will have yes, lower value chances, but they will have a lot more of them. But I thought Arsenal did a good job of stopping them from producing too much. It's also worth saying that PSG are worse at generating chances in that sort of setup. PSG are a team who are super dangerous when they're attacking directly The interesting question was why at halfime did Aretta want to come out and felt like he should be more proactive in that second half, a goal up as they were? Because very soon after that happened, we were talking about how much more space had opened out. and eventually the penalty came from for such a situation where the space was open Yeah, I I know if we can talk about that, but I guess Aetta just probably didn't feel comfortable having that little of an impact on the game with this team. Yeah ye. That's a very interesting point, John. Thanks for making that. Do you know I was thinking just off the top of my head. There's been a few comments in the chat. One from Will J one C and that's the end of his username Will, J one C, says PSG had ninety percent possession. They didn't Will. they had seventy five get it right mate Only one team tried to play. That's the end of Will's comment. And there are a few chats there sry a few comments like that in the chat there that suggest that this is one of those games where only one team came to play I'm not so sure it's quite that simple though, Kya, is it? No Thanks, Cor. go I mean, I obviously say this is a man sitting here in an arsenal shirt who I nearly cried at the end of the live stream because of the result. but I I think I think there's different ways of playing, right? And I think you have to play to your strengths. And I think if Arsen had come out and tryed to attack PSG in the way John spoke about just there, they would have lost and what happened to Intimilan last season. I don't think it wasn't. they weren't trying to play. I just think PSG are so strong in certain areas that you have to play to your strengths. And I think different teams play to their different strengths. I don't think they didn't try and play I thought also they did carry a threat. like in the first half, they had the better chances to. K Habberts had a second chance that he could have he could have taken and Yeah, if the gameer continued that way, you'd argue that it was a perfect game plan. I also think the fact, you know, PSG scored a penalty. It wasn't like they created chance after chance and peppered the Asenal goal. They were rubish. posession I don't think is necessarily I mean, sereral possession okay. I don't think it was quite that. but I don't think that necessarily means you tried to play just because you had seventy five percent of the ball. I think it's a a little bit more complex than that, but yeah, I think it's a slightly reductive argument. The beginning of the live stream seemingly four days ago. I remember saying like the route to victory is much harder for Arsenal than its forSG. And the reality is they got to the end of the game all square and I think that's an impressive performance for them in the context. And so you have to you have to take it as they they probably did the the thing that was the most effective way of playing It's also worth saying in the second half when they did try and be a bit more proactive, they didn't really create anything at all. I think they had one chance in the second half from outside the box and they gave up much more chances, right? So there's an argument to be made that you know, they could maybe have lent into the low block defending a little bit longer even. But yeah, again, these are all trade offs, right? And that's what the managers always faced with. It's never it's never as simple as being like if Arsenal had low blocked for the second half. They would have definitely have ended up being one the victors, right? It could have been the case that they eventually started getting broken down. And I think after a halfim, the coach will will have spoken to well Lewis and Ricle have spok to PSG and will have suggested some ways of maybe causing more problems to that low block. And so I think it is good as well to be proactive and try and stay ahead of the tactical battle as well Okay, that makes sense. Kya. we've established that Arsenal did well And that they were unfailing in the line. I'm just kidding. But let's talk about something that they did that you didn't love. You mentioned during the game that you thought the substitution Erdigor for Yocorus that was in the second half. Yeah ye. you didn't love that substitution. canan you explain why? Yeah And I mean, do you think it had any impact on the game? I don't think it changed the game? I don't think it's why Arsenal lost any stretch. but I think just generally Kyi Habs was having a really good game in the number nine position and I thought in the first half He was holding the ball relatively well. second half he wasn't holding the ball as well But I just don't think Victor Ocrect is strengths generally. He was very good in the semifin final second leg against Ates C Madrid. But generally he's not the best hold upp striker. in the world. I think if the game was still one nill when Yoocza come on and PSG were coming onto them a bit more and there was a bit more space in behind, Perfect su is Victi Ocara because he's the gu who's big space player and he loves that kind of stuff and he score goals like from those situations in the Champions League already this season into Milan and and others that aren't coming to mind now, but Um yeah, I just didn't feel that was the right one. I felt someome of the subs, I think, you know later on in the game, finishing the match with a front three of Maduquke Yoocarez and Martinelli. I think that's not a front three that Arsenal fans particularly like because it hasn't worked very well for them Having said that, that's against L blocks, but I just think sometimes you go for what's worked for you throughout the rest of the season and I would have liked to have seen Ezay within the ninety as well if possible. But again, I don't think subs is where Arsenal lost the game and also G back to the one team cameame to play. I think if you bring on a striker in sort of after an hour when it's one or you're going to win the game and I respect ouret for that. I think. I think he did genuinely try and win the match. so ye yeah I think it as well in the second half There was that attempt to be more proactive and you could see Alteta getting frustrated that when when arsen were playing the ball longer, they just couldn't they couldn't make it stick And so I think at that point he decided The best thing for us to do is to just try and really sort of physically impose on PSG's backline because PSG's backline doesn't often get put under a huge amount of pressure. And I thought, you know they looked quite shaky when Aed were going along, you've got for a little while Habs and Yocars together. and then you add your runners in behind in Madu and and Martinelli. And actually those were the moments where it felt as though we actually got into the game a little bit more just because you know, that sort of thing, destabilizing an opposition's backline. D defensively actually has a huge impact on the way that they set up in possession as well. And you know towards the end of the second half of injury time, it was noticeable that PSG were clearly not wanting to overcit their buildup unit too high because they didn't want to be caught in those in those moments against those teams. And so it's sort of the game sort of fizzled out a little bit in extra time, I think, just because no team really wanted to to take the tactical gamble too far because you're getting that close, you're just like, well, I'd rather take pens and see what happens. Yeah, o. And what did you make of the penalties? I'm going to come to Kyro in a second because K a shoot out. Yeah Ki has a perspective about David Ryer. I don't know, what did you make of the penalties, generally? Yeah I think it's really interesting that Arsenal missed two penalties because they missed the target And I think that is very much That is very much a nerves thing. The Gabrielle penalty is definitely a nerves penalty. Yeah. And I know that because I've been in the same situation before. Act l a penalty the Champions League fin. That's right. Yeah. you to say cut. That's exactly what I was going to say. You might not remember. I am quite old back in the nineteen eighties. Europe' being cu of course No. Ik I took two penalties in a game once and missed them both And in the first one, the first one was in during normal time And I hit the angle of post and bar. It was so close to have just been the perfect penalty and I missed. And then it went to a penalty shootout and my head was gone. No one else would take a penalty. So I was like, fine, I'll do it. And I absolutely Gabrielle over it feel? felt absolutely horrible. It was the worst penalty' ever talk. I'd never missed a penalty in a match before that. What a brow It was the penaltyaker of the team you know, it hurts, it hurts. Can we do quickly, you tell me was what was wr with Rah during the penalties. And then I'm going to come to you, John as a quick fire because let me tell you, we're there's quite a lot of people in the chat now and the live stream. And it's off the hook, I would say this evening. there are people there are going for. I think people taking a huge amount of joy in Arsenal's loss. Oh that's. And I think there are a number of narratives in here. Oh really that just don't make any sense to me. So we're going to do a fun quick fire aroundound night we where we get to What's the word? debunk Duns. People are at home on their own. they're putting stuff in the chat because they feel they're completely unexposed. they say wherebunk comes from. Presumably it's like something like on a ship where you get someone out of their bed or something like that. Well, not to worry, Jon, I can tell you exactly the etymology of debunking, of course. So wise John. Now you know what normally I would be lazy and I would use the Google's AI overview to do this. But now I know how wrong it is about who I support. I'm going to look instead on Uh, the Wikipedia. Because I know the Wikipedia is always correct. Dbunk This is the debunker page. The debunk debunker. Dbunk page, your Wikipedia. A debunker is a person or organization that exposes ong or discredits claims believed to be false exaggerated or pretentious entious The term often associated withpe investigation of controversial topics such as UFO's, claimed paranormal phenomena. So the etymology here, the American hereritage dictory dict I've been livestream before Stick Chaney. The American Heritage Dictionary traces the passage of the word Dbunk and debunker into American English in nineteen twenty three as a belated outgrowth of Bunkham. Have you heard that word? Yeahbunker. Yeah. The first recorded use of the word was in eighteen twenty eight, apparently related to a poorly received speech for Bunkham County. North Carolina. How about that? Okay. Does that make any sense to anyone? Yeah. Nice It was good to learn because bunkum, I don't know why almost unimatapetically to me sounds like it does mean nonsense. Right? Yeah. That's just pure bunkum. But complete bunkum. Yeah, but the fact that it's named after a place is kind of interesting. That's good fun. No anyway, you thought David Rye was diving too early. Yeah it was diving way too early. This is an old narrative though, right? This goes back is. It goes back a few years. Arsenal had a pen to shoot out in the FA Cup Ress was it? No, it was a Manchester United wasn't it? Yeah Man United Boss seeason U and David Rier dived early for every single penalty The idea is, I guess, like if you go the right way, you save it as we saw the Nun Mendeesz one, but if you go the wrong way You've kind of given the game away as to where you're going to die for a pound shootout and You noticed that, I think more with Rye than anyone else. John made the point that maybe it's I think was it you said because he's a small goalie. Um, maybe But I think to get to the bottom corner you probably has to set off a little bit earlier potentially. I guess If takers are going to do the thing that everyone does which is try and read body language and stuff, it gives you a massive advantage. Massively. And yeah he He died way too early for the penalties. He's done this before and he's actually got a decent record when it comes to penalties for arsenal in not shootouts. Fair to he's the only goaleper who saved the penalty I mean,rsenal's penalties were missed. Safanoff didn't save either But yeah, I just thought he dived too early and people who watched al liive watch alone will Well know my thoughts on that. Fair enough. Okay, John, I have four quick fire questions for you.ers? And I've only picked four because I know when I say quickfire to you, it doesn't mean a downam. Okay. The first one, A Tetta failed or the he approached the game wrong Yeah, I disagree with that. I think I agree with Kayo in the sense that You've got to do what you could do with what you've got and that's what he's got and so he did what he did with them. It would it would have been insane to approach the game in a different way. Yeah. what you've got to think is this is a game that went to penalties and if the penalties had gone the other way, we wouldn't be having this conversation, right? It would be like what a brilliant approach from Artetta. And literally the only difference between that and this sure is that you know result. Gabriell yeed it twenty five feet over the bar. Well, here's the fourth one This is from Brian Park. Gabrielle should have simply wrestled the ball into the net. Aree. Yeah agree with that. I'd agree, of course. I threw that one in for fun. Here's another. Arsenal were bad today I don't think they were particularly bad. I've seen them so much worse I think in possession they were poor. But the story the story of the game, the story of the day surely isn't the arsenal were bad and that's why they lost No, But again, I don't know, I plead the fifth one. It feels almost like People are suggesting, oh, you have to go out and try and score goals. and if you don't score goals, then you've somehow not played the game. and that's not what football is. football is and I talk about it a lot, right? I talk about this the sort of balance between like the celebration of athleticism and then the agon of like fighting against and grinding against an opponent who are going to beat you, right? And think Yes, Arsenal lean into the latter rather than the former, but I think they're both They're both legitimate and fair ways of playing. and and again, like I will always say to anyone who is going to make these kind of narratives, it nearly worked. it nearly worked for Arsenal and and you know, the nearly work the penalty Yeah, were p nely working was done within one hundred twenty minutes, right? There was nothing more they could have done to have nearly worked than get to the end of I mean, yeah, the argument will be well, they should have won in one hundred and twenty minutes per. I think that's a bad kind of a bad f take as well. like you think I think if you think Arsenal played bad, you are looking for reasons why they play bad this evening. I don't think because and I can say they played well because I think, you know, I'm looking for reasons they played well as a family. I don't think Itplaining your strength is play It's not For me it's not part of the story of what happened No. They lost on a penalty shootout. Yeah. like this brings me to the fourth and final one, Arsenal bottled it. What did they bottle? What did they bottle? They got to the end of one hundred twenty minutes of open play football with PSG one all and then lost a penalty shootout. Yeah. What's the bottle involved? I mean, I guess if they bottled it, I would be the first person to say it. I would love to say it. I wish they bottled it So that I could laugh, but they didn't, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think you can maybe argue that like the penalties were a little bit bottled, but like they're bottled about. I'm just. againain, I think that's really it's really harsh. I think people don't realize how much pressure these guys are under. And also, you know, the guys you miss one of them is one of them is as one of them is who who you know, hasn't been in those sorts of situations before because he's only transferred this season The other one is Gabrielli's a centerback. It's like they're being put into situations where it is hard for them. and the underlying thing here is that Arsenal haven't been in this situation before, right? They've not been in a penalty shoot out in a Champions League final. whereereas PSG have they've been there they won Champions League finals before. they know what the pressure is likely You've got to give them at least the option of being under a lot of pressure in that situation. I' also add to that do people think England bott it in the Eururos final when they went when they're up I don't think People did say that. People said that. Oh, that's back fired on me then has it. Listen, if you want to see a bottling, stick around because after this ad break, I'm gonna be playing an a rondo Hey, wasn't that a fan ad break? Vy exciting Good fun. Now we've got producer Nathan without a microphone here in the room. Producer Nathan, what is today's Rndo? and then I will repeat it to the audience Champions League runers up millennium. Oh my god. Champions League runers up including the year two thousand since two thousand including In each instance I want the team and the year. In each instance we want the team and the year. That's so hard. I think we should lose the year If that's impossible. There are multiple there are repeats. Of course there are. once you say a team, there wouldn't be twenty six correct answers. There would only be how many answers, how many individual unique teams are there? You've got time to count them. It's not like will. About twenty. I think we I think if we include ye, it's going to be over immediately. H toar you're the only person that can. All right, listen, welcome to the Rndo. Here's how the Rndo works because someone in the comments noted the other day that I explain it every week. I'm going to do it again. Here's the Rndo. Producer Nathan asks us a question that has multiple correct answers. We go round in a circle. we give correct answers. If we give incorrect answers, we are immediately ejected from the Rndo. If we dither, or dilly or dally, or do anything that takes too long prodroducer Nathan can eject us himself, although if he tries to do that to me, he will find himself without work. I can tell you now. That's how it works. And today's question is we are looking for runners up of the Champions League since the year two thousand, not the year and only teams not individual instances. So if we say, for example, I will begin, if you don't mind producer Nathan can I begin ne min. Okay, you need one more second. In which case, I will continue to explain the rules of a different game. M be explaining points of b? I never explaining points of bad. Although I will explain points of badot because we're gonna to do a World Cup version of it. Oh cool. So in the first World Cup episode, I will explain points of bad. How's fun.'s about that? That sounds good to me. Don't mind Okay, great Do you still need more time, producer Nathan? N. Yeah, great. Okay. So when I begin the Rndo and I say the team Arsenal, That's two instances because of course they lost this evening, didn't they Kaya? Yeah. they did. And of course they lost in two thousand six as well, didn't they Kaya? Yeah Yeah. Which one of those would you say they more bottled it? Is it this one or two thousand six? Oh God. I mean, it's hard two thousand six, surely. Well they were down to ten men. I think that's quite harsh that's bottling it isn't it? Like down to ten men.'ottle it. Leen' Leman bottled it for them. What? You think? No Why not? you can't call a red card, a bottle. Rem Remember where your microphone is Kaya? I'm sorry. I Remember where you are Kaya and I forgotten. I'm too ups sorry. we're into the Runda. Yeah.' Rsws Arsenal off, we go to Kaya. So I can't Asenal again you can say Arsome again, say it. D't it. You should definitely say Arm done As them twenty nineteen. Okay. You don't have to say the date, you don'd have to show off. It's fine.. Bruy Dortment. Okaykay, now that's good. I think can I get that fly? Nearly got it. C to me fly. Come to me, Fly Yeah, o he's gone. I think Byon have lost in the final Yes. Yes Monaco Yes Yeah Manchester City Yes. Chelsea Yeah Yes Chelsea two thousand eight Of course, yeah, Manchester United I do. Yeah Liverpool Yes At lettero Madrid Yeah. Thank no man Milanne, Py, Milan Yes. You enters Yes, we' near the out. How many are left?? Four. There are four teams left that have lost in the Champions League final. Okay, In Yeah Because they lost last year. Oh my Godd, I'm gonna win. Valencia Y. Valencia. What was that? two thousand I think? Wow. And they got two finals. John Always taking time He's taking some time to one say team? Any team say team? Napoli. Napoli? No. Okaykay. is back to me I think I assume Barcelona must have lost one No, they've won every final they got to. Wow, incredible. Okay, so if Ka can get one right, he's he'll win something tonight. Biolavuse had a Naveacus seed, didnn't they say Biolavacus. correct said Well done Ka. Well done Bara trophy. Everything's going to be fine. Thank you.ne answer remain. One answer was remaining, whichich one was it produced Nathan?G Oh PSG. Of course Yes Of course Could have said them couldn't wait Famously famamously so they didn't win at Champions Leag for ages. Famously so How about that there we go. Okay, well, that was a Rndo. comeome back next time for more Rondo. Now, let's talk about the broader talking points as it relates to this final and then we'll get on to talking about Liverpool. John company said, didn't he? Vincent Company, he said you either go or fall into battles Or you retreat fully. That was one of companies' descriptions of what modern football is. Do you think this game subscribes to that theory? Yeah, so this was an interesting talking point after the PSG buying game where the semifinal in the semifinal, Yeahah in the first leg of the semifinals because the second leg was a little bit more tetchy, I would say, but ye The second leg wasn't really described by this quote. No. But in the first leg both teams essentially just decided to go mant toan across the pitch roughly speaking and Yeah, when that happens, the game changes, right? Itom It becomes very much dual based, It becomes one v ones across the pitch. I belie they call it hell for Leather. That's right. they do The wizard. And yeah, I mean, I guess the reason they would do that is because it's believed that it's harder and harder to defend against these sort of galactico clubs now where They've just got great players in all positions. And so the options are what do you do? Do you try and do you try and mid block them and sort of give them space on the ball when they're building up then and then decide where the areas are that you're going to jump on them? Or do you the options that he gives, right? you either go fully into and commit to the press and go man to man across the pitch or you sit in a low block and absorb pressure and then try and hit them on the on the counter. So I mean, I guess the this that was partly why we talked about this game as being a sort of very preci and game given the conversations about the future tactics of the game. And in many respects, the game did follow in the first half, right? It followed that followed that trajectory of Arsenal sitting very deep, retreating fully and seeing what could happen. And again, we said you could make the argument that Arsenal maybe should have kept up that approach for the whole game for whatever reason Arteta decided not to. But it's worth saying maybe in the second half when they did go a little bit more in between arsenal, so not necessarily jumping super high and aggressive, but also not retreating fully sitting in a bit more of a mid bllock They did open up the space that PSG could exploit a little bit more. So PSG put up a lot more chances in that second half of the game, although as we said, like most of the chance quality came from that penalty kick. Yeah. And interestingly enough, Arsenal didn't generate as much in that second half in possession as well, right? Curiously enough, by sitting off and giving the initiative to PSG, Arsenal actually made it easier for themselves to hit the space in behind. Which feels like a thing that managers have known for a long time Yeah, Yeah. I mean that's not a new thing, but that's just that maybe we're seeing versions that are more extreme. Yeah. And you know the interesting thing, I suppose is is that that low bloc en couounter approach became much less popular, I think because teams were just So much better at being able to break it down. Yeah And I suppose it almost feels as though the tactical cycle has come around a little bit now. But that's usually though because elite teams weren't doing it, right? I mean, you know Teams like Manchester City and Barcelona got very good at breaking down lower blocks, but generally speaking, the teams they were playing against and the player quality on those teams was lower. Whereas Arsenal have assembled a squad of people who are absolutely elite at doing this this very thing. I'm not sure A that we've really seen that before or B that it's very repeatable by other teams. Yeah. And again, we need to remind ourselves that we're not just talking about universal abstract ideas. There's going to be some teams who are going to be better at breaking down lad blocks than PSG. Yeah. I think people may be a little bit confused by the fact that PSG aren't as good at breaking down low blocks because you look at the quality on their team and you think, well they should be able to do that. But you know if it had been a game against I don't know, city a few years back and you sat sat in like that they just built a team optimized for breaking down those kind of low blocks. So the needle of possibility shifts and makes it much, much lower probability to pull it off, whichich is why I think that it's It's fair for arsenals to go that way, right? Because it stops PSG from doing the thing that they're best in the world at. And I think that's a totally valid way of approaching the game.. I mean based on what you're saying then Can I say is it fair for me to say that while Arteta has received a lot of criticism this year for his style, certainly for the way that he's had arsenal play in the latter stages of the Premier League as opposed to necessarily the first half of the year that This game and the ending of the season is a huge vindication for that style because they won the Premier League with some caveats that we've discussed before And you know they've shown that it can work over the course of a thirty eight game league system. And they've answered the other question, which was the narrative going into this game you talked about already, is it possible to defend against a team like PSG? The answer is a resounding, yes, it is. They lost on a penalty shootout. Is that not like a huge vindication for Ratetta Despite not winning trophy. I mean, I guess the pushback here would be they very nearly didn' win the Premier League and you know, it almost felt at one point the way the city were approaching the season was catching them up. Now again, like they did they held the nerve and city drop points. Yeah. And then the counter argument tonight would be, well, they probably had like the best case scenario almost and they still didn't manage to get it overline. So and again, this is not me trying to beat Arsenal with a stick.'s this is me saying that the way that you have to think about tactical trends is always probabilistically, right? You can play like Arsenal and have a good season and win the league playay Arsenal have a great Champions League and get to the final and just lose out on penalties. The more interesting question is what about next season? right? When we go into next season, if Arsenal continue to play this way in the league as they did in the second half of the season in particular, they play the way that they did in the Champions League, will they get through? And I think that that is where the question starts becoming interesting. I don't think that Arsenal will played the way that they played this season next season because I think Atetta will realize that he probably it probably did cut a little bit too fine U and you don' they're in a situation now where they've got that first league title under our tetter off their back. And now it's a question of like how do we how do we make our dominance more probabilistic probably probabilistically likely than then maybe it was this season. And you know, I think that's what will happen. We'll see we'll start seeing it in evolution. Our teta has always evolved like every season we've seen those changes happening. So I'd be amazed if that doesn't happen this time around. So ye on the one again,'m not I'm not going to use that as a stick to beat arsenal with. they've had an incredible season and it's impressive what they've managed to achieve playing this way. but I don't I'm under no illusion that when the Arsenal coaching staff sit down to debrief this season, they will be thinking How we going to find ways of becoming more dominant, How we going to find ways of not having to rely on keeping goals low in games in order to have an edge? How we going to you know find ways of increasing our open play chance creation. How are we going to find ways of being able to deal with the fact that if our set piece efficiency isn't as high, then we see very clearly correlated drops off in league form, for example. So yeah, that's the attitude you have to have. I don't think that they'll come out of this and be like, we've been vindicated to play this way so we're just going to play like this forever now sure. I think we will see changes How do you think we'll see changes car? U I think a lot of the ways that John outlined before and I think John's right that every iteration of arrsenal kind of since they started challenging the titles under Arteta has been different. The first team were kindind of all out of attackle much to the point of naivety that city could exploit very easily in that for one game. since then Nette has kind of adopted a slightly more risk averse approach, but the first the second title race Arsenal had where they got to eighty nine points scored, I think twenty more goals than they managed this season. Yeah they were a really strong attacking unit and they used that pieces to break open gains, but they would go on and then sort of home that advantage. Last season star race was different because they were affected by injuries quite a lot. but yeah, this season I think has been bit more risk averse. I wonder if John's right that Do you look at the positions where Arsenal will probably look to strengthen the transfer market this summer and there mostly, I mean, Probably a left winger, maybe a right back who can offer them a bit more going forward because Timber is great, but he's not so strong going forward at times. So you look at those where they're trying to strengthen the squad and you start to think that yeah, maybe they have recognized that those are weaknesses. And I think A Tet has said this in interviews that In the first half of the season, I think there's a strong argument that Arsenal at a point when they were going on runs where they it felt like they would never concede a goal and they were pretty good the going the other way to. It felt like they were the best team in Europe and then they petated off I think of the second off the season when the pressure was on and they felt like You know, Tit was on the line and all that kind of stuff and the players felt it massively And he's admitted that offensively they weren't as good and I don't think he's happy with that. And I think we saw in tonight's final with the way he approach the second half that despite what people say, I don't think he's a coach who's necessarily happy with his team winning one nail every single time. he'll do it and he's not afraid to do it. But I think in an ideal world, he'd love to win games for five no and I think he wants his team to be more attacking. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an Arhal side that takes a few more risks next season and finds ways to do that It's just a question of that balance that's always been the case for us. That'll be pretty exciting. What do you think' next for Lewis and Rick and PSG then, John? I mean, similarly can they evolve? Are they at peak Whatever it is that they are? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, they've written themselves into the history books. There's very few teams who've retained Yeah Champions League I can think of Reail Madrid. I know Nottingham Forest did it with the European Cup inC did it didn't they? IX did it. Byen did it, I think as well. Byan. Yeahah. ye Y your microphone is being gently pushed more towards your mouth by producer Nathan who was off camera Um Yeah, I suppose it it's been a really big few years for PSG. they've sort of evolved with the tactical landscape quite nicely, I think. And again timed quite well, hasn't it Yeah, and you know they really came into their own midway through last season and then had that run up to the The Champions League final last time around. And, you know, they've they've done it again this time around and yes, okay, the way that they can structure their Champions League runs is very favorable to them But from a tactical point of view, they've certainly shown that there is a way to play Um in a world where things are becoming increasingly, I would say, increasingly physically dominant with a team of, yes, physical players, but not physically imposing players. they've sort of pushed back against the idea of what what modern football has to look like and they've done it Yeah, with players like Vetina with San Nvvers, players like that who you wouldn't necessarily expect to be in the dominant team of the time. So in many respects it feels as though they are almost ahead of the curve with where the Premier League has gone and it will be interesting to see how other other teams catch them up. I think you make the you can make the argument that Byon have done this Yeah this season and they're adopting that approach. But again The big questions about whether or not the way that they do it is league dependent and it's very, very hard for the Premier League sides, I think, to to innovate away from that at this point in time. How do you think you feel if you're Killian and Bae this evening Because Pe you have now won two in a row They seem there's a lot of threepeat shouts in the chat. They seem perhaps the most likely looking at all the teams in Europe to You know, go on and win it again next year. Obviously this is pre a transfer window You probably don't feel great if you're killing in a buffet you? That' something that's not really been talked about is that you know, we went through a period where just around Re Madrid were winning the Champions League all the time. Yeah. famamously won it five times in. And again, we talked about Galactico football at that point. and it was the ideology was almost like as long as you stack your team with talent, then you'll get there And PSG did the same thing, right? They tried to start their team of talent and never did it. And it was only once they brought in Luis ennrique and they built a team of players who are willing to compete and put the collective as high as they put the individual that that has changed. And I think that's kind of interesting, right? because the narrative hasn't really been that recently. The narrative has been systems football is bad. And what you're doing is you're curtailing the freedom of the players. And obviously, you know, that criticism I think is fair. I think it it's important to make sure that you aren't reducing the quality of your players by forcing them into a system that is too over the top. But at the same time, it's pretty clear now that with Real Madrid like struggling recently with PSG and Byon two teams where you know they've got that balance right between the system and the players, it is starting to look like this a sort of a new form of collective approach which can actually work for elite sides and you have to work hard. You know your players are expected to do a lot of off the ball work. Both of these teams PSG and Byon are going man to man in long stretches of the game. That requires a huge amount of concentration, a huge amount of effort and you're seeing players like Harry Kaine ending up in his backline at times tracking opponents. yeah, I guess that's the The famous clip of Lu Erique talking to Mbapee saying, you know, you have to be able to do it for the team in the modern game. And yeah, that's a real, I think it's a real clear indicator that in the long run, Lu ennrique has been proved correct. Yeah You know what I want now break It's an advert. Can I go to the toilet Yeah, you know what? Thanks. Yeah, why not? You know, we've been life for a really long time. Ordinarily I'd be absolutely furious about that, but. seeking Creating, learning, discovering At ArAamco, we believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible. That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. ArAamMco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more about us at arramco. com Well, we've returned from a break and let me tell you podcast Land, S real things happened during that break, not just a pretend break like normal. No John went to the toilet, Kyra and I talked about his dad. Then we talked about how snippy the live chat is, John came back and said the air conditioning makes him need the toilet more often, and then we looked up whether or not that's true and it is true. What did Papa Kinak say about the game So to read we said? Yeah. Let's hear what Kya's father texted him immediately asked Qite a nice text, I think. I thought it was a nice text. Can you read it in a deep South American accent? Itep South America. We've years not as an impression of your dad, but just because I was just doing it South America. Do you mean Southern America? Deep the deep south Deep South, Dep South Comma American That's what I. I just want a Tierra del Fuego accent. N not as deep sou Sou as I guess. Oh whale Pans are the look of the draw. we played very well. Ppeands are on the look of the draw And they did I thought. I don't know if they played very well, but I think they played okay I think they played well. I think they played well. play m themselves with honor. They did. We're done with that now. Now. Of course, the next section of the podcast is all about the other news of the day. The huge news of the day, maybe they thought that no one would talk about it because of the Champions League final. and in some cases they might be correct It's all the way it's a footnote on our show here, isn't it? that Arnna Slart is no longer The Liverpool manager. Now David Enstein reported earlier on that And Donnie Ariola is the clear favourite for the vacant Liverpool head coach job. but Stutgart coach Sebastian Hernes and Lon's boss, Pierre how do I say this Pierre S Sag Saggy Is it really? D definitely Saggy. He's tricking me, isn't he? He's tricking me Pierre Sage are also being considered as options. Kaya, I'll begin with you. Yeah. I mean, there's been an awful lot of criticism of this move already, not because Arnestlot is now without a job, but because there are a lot of liiberal fans who seem to think this strange that happened in the aftermath of of Javvi Alonso being now unavailable. I think there's more to that story isn't there. But for a long time it has kind of felt a little bit inevitable thatot wasn't going to be the manager next season. Yeah, I think if you look at the way Liverpool have played this season, you look at how he's It's felt like he's been struggling to get a tune out of the players for long periods of timees this season. It doesn't feel like It's very easy to get a tune out of this chair. as I'm shifting around ass likeing, but please that's all right Yeah he become a Joing Goose fat for the world So he doesn't make that nice. But yeah, I think Liverpool It's felt like for a while they've been drifting under slot. The style of play has felt kind of nowhere near the levels that won in the league last season. It's felt like quite an unhappy camp. This season, the noises have been coming out. from them and yeah, toly towards the end. I mean, Yeahah, massively towards the end. And I think Slot has lost the fans as well. I think he lost them quite a while ago with some of the stuff he's come out and said in terms of Liverool don't win the league that often and things like that. and before Cp they hadn't won it for ages. I just think that's not a smart thing to say if you're a manager trying to keep fans on side. and I also think that Liverpool fans wanted Jab Alonzo before Arnest slot came in. I think they've kind of felt like as he was their former player It's felt like a natural progression for him to go from doing a fantastic job by buy a lab accus. Okay, they missed out on him. He went to Ral Madrid. Now he's available again. surely probablyro is the kind of the hottest pre agent manager on the market in the summer, I would say. I think I see why local fans wanted him and I also see why he's someone who understands it. It always feels like The managerial bond with the fans and kind of the understanding and getting it is so much more important at that club than the many others. And yeah, I just think I understand why they're a bit upset about that. but yeah. Having said that Maybe this is a controversial opinion, John. You'll tell me. You know, I said that it's possible that Jami Alonzso, you the hottest free agent manager available this summer? I thought you'd pick up on that. There's another hot available manager this summer. Andoni Rriola, of course, who has been linked to the available job at Liverpool wouldould it be fair to say that it could be considered that he's even hotter in the sense that he's just proved that he can Do at least you can do something in the Premier League, whether it's the job that would be required at Liverpool or not is open to question. But Andonie Riel are very app provedven Premier League manager in a way that Jab Alonso isn't Yeah, no for sure. and finished just a place below slot in the table as well. So with a squad that you know cost peanuts compared to the Liverpool squad. Yeah, and I think this is an interesting one right? because weve we've had the narrative this season of what happens if you take one of these lower table coaches and put them in an elite side, right? whichich is the narrative that's sort of been trotting around for a while And it was very clear that It's not just so simple as if a coach is doing well with a smaller club, then you put them in a bigger squad, then it will suddenly work in the same way. But I think there are some so there are some concerns, I suppose with Iola in that respect. This is a risky appointment I think there are sub mitigations to those concerns. One of them is that usually that criticism boils down to what are they going to do with the ball, right? You have to try and Yeah, if you are going to be a club like Liverpool, you have to be protagonists in some way Now the problem is that in the past that protagonism has generally been secured through some kind of possession control U And we're in a point in time in the Premier League where that's, you know, we've never had less U less power for those possession controlll teams. I put a viz in my last Did you notice column in the athletic I asked Connor O'Neill to do this. We were just having lunch and I was really interested because I was talking a little bit about how possession controlage is sort of stuttering a bit. Connor O'Neill is a data reporter for the Ath. Yeah, that's right. So he can do all of the smart stuff and make nice visits and make my pieces look nicer and smarter. Yeah. Make you look smart? Yes. There's lots of people in this company whose sole job seemingly is to make me look smarter than I am, which I'm very appreciative of. Mine is the only one to make him look less sm and I love it. Yeah yeah. But what was really interesting is that if you actually look at the spread of possession share across the The Premier League is Joe Creeks in the chair U Previously, it's sort of spread out quite far between seventy percent and thirty percent And over the last couple of seasons, we've seen that compress right down. So obviously it's a zero sum game possession so if the top comes down the bottom is probably going to come up or you know, and that's what's happened U in a manner of speaking. If the top comes down, the bottom comes up. Yeah. certainly what I've noticed when I go to the toilet I don't know, does that work? You pull your top off and you go to the toilet Yeah. It's of weird man. I pull it down. You pull the trousers down and makes it up and it goes to the toilet off Yeah. No one ever taught me how to go to the toilet Well Anyway, yeah, if you look at that this now, you can see that it goes between sixty and forty. So the teams at the top are finding it harder to control possession in the way they once did. Teams at the bottom are finding ways of being able to do it more. Now Possession control is not just about being able to keep the ball for as long as possible. it's also about making sure that you can force possession to change hands as well. So a big part of it comes down to the fact that the teams at the bottom are finding ways of winning the ball back off opponents as much as keeping the ball for longer periods as well. But I think That landscape then means that someone like Iola who people will say, oh, you know, this season Bournemouth had just over. they just shaded over into the positive possession Pe will say, does this mean that he won't be able to be the protagonist in the same way? But I think it's really interesting because I think the league is changing, the way that you actually control games is changing and it's shifting in a direction that suits aches like Iola. So in a way that I don't think that Thomas Frank's football necessarily ports into the modern game as well. I do think that Iroola's game will port over a little bit better. That said, I do think that he will there will be things that he will have to learn to deal with, right? becausecause he'll be working with a quality of play that's much higher than any player that he's worked with before. And I think a big question is going to be whether or not he can evolve to the level that he needs to, but if it happens. if it happens. yeah. And you know The comparison with Kop I think is really interesting because I've heard that Iolas say that he thinks that people may be overrate is out of possession game and underrate is in possession game That's actually very I've got sections in my book where I looked at some of the interviews with Klop when he arrived in the Premier League and he's saying the same thing. He's like people will say we're out of possession first side, but actually the in possession side is quite good as well. And again, you know, Klop l into chaos a lot even in the Premier League. And again, I think the narrative that people tend to spin of that period was Well, you know, it was a battle between Klop's Chaos and Guadiola's control and Guadiola won more things basically in that period. So it's a proof that control possession control wins out Whereas actually I think the more compelling narrative is that Joggen Klop was the coach you got closest to causing P problems, Pet own football evolved because of the challenges he faced from from Jogen Klop, and Yoggen Klopp is much the prime mover in the tactical landscape that we've ended up with now. So I think that that will it that will make it very interesting to see how whether or not Iola can actually evolve at Liverpool That's quite interesting way of looking at it, isn't it? If you think that Jgenkop is the prime mover in the tactical landscape that we're ended up in now, does that not make him more influential than Guadiola Are we seeing the lineage of his thought processes more so than we are at Guardiolas's? Yeah. I think you could argue that Guardiola was you know was more influential in the period before, but like Yog and Klop now has started to have that influence. And I guess would and in the book, I do make this argument actually because everyone's responding to what Guardiola did. there's an extent to which He shares that influence, right, even though it's people trying to counteract him. He kind of guuadiolorified himself a little bit. Yeah. Yeah exactly. And the other thing I'm interested with Iriola is it was much easier for Klop to do that to go into Liverpool and impose and involve with the club when they were finishing seventh eighth position It's going to be very different for Iola now to come in and have the time allotted to him to actually evolve. So I do think that that is something to keep in mind. It for me, the question is whether or not the club and the fans can be patient with him he as he evolves and to what extent evvolution can be successful enough while it's happening for it to work. because I think there's plenty of coaches where doesn't happen right? Jabby Alonso, I think he was trying to evolve Real Madrid in a certain direction. it didn't matter because he lost the players and he lost the fans. And so that's going to be an interesting aspect of Viriola too. How immediately successful is it going to be? And to what extent are they going to get that buy in from the beginning? And with Bournemouth, you know, it took him ten games to get there. He could do that with a team like Bormemouth' fine. you can lose you would not win nine games in a row and even then it was like tetchy towards the end of that nine games. He's not going to get that of Liverpool. So mean you don't get three to add to that as well. This Liverpool squad is going is going to go through another period of huge transition They spent loads of money last summer and they're in a position where they need to spend a lot more again this summer. C Canat is leaving obvly Sal's leaving Van Dyke is kind of coming towards the end. Frimpong? Frimpong I was going to say has been a bit of a disaster right back. They haven't really got a solution since Trent left It felt like he's not replaced him. Florian Vz hasn't shown his best in Liverpoolhire at all You know, Alexander Isak has had a season blooded by injury and hasn't shown his best Hugo EiK stillill a question about how you get them in a squad together. Cody Gak post struggled. I's injured as well, right? Yeah he's got Yeah.'s he's getting the injury that is like the killer injurred Exactly E exactly be's it's a really difficult job at Liverpool right now because You need to do a lot and you probably need to be given a lot of time like like you said, but the question is how will he deal with that and will he get it becausecause Yeah, Liverpool their recruitment last summer was a mess. The squad now is a massive patchwork of different styles and ways that Slott thought he could play Andy Robberinson's another play who's leaving he's a huge figure in that dressing room. and Nilos Kirkess didn't really convince last season, although he has worked with Aola before So yeah, there's loads of questions around it. I'm really excited to see how Ireola does it because if he gets the job, if he gets the job. I feel like we're never goinghe of. You're right. You're right I would love to see him do it. Me too because I'd love to see him I'd love to see him get the chance to do what he's done at Bornemouth on a bigger scale. I think if he can do it, it'd be really exciting and really fun. And I'd love to see that kind of football be played by by with all would you respect to Born a bigger team with bigger resources. I think they could be really, really fun to watch I mean, I will say I said this a couple of weeks ago, but Next season is shaping up to be fascinating, which worri which makes me worried that it won't be because you know of my fear of inverse expectations. But if Iriola is the Liverpool manager In the mode of club If sorry, I'm tpping my cup and producing anything looking unhappily at me as I do. Do you like it when I do this? If I'll do that again for you. I'll do that again for you. Next season is shaping up to be very exciting, I think because if Areola does get the Liverpool job, he'll be facing opposite Enzo Mareresca, the new Manchester City manager, who the hell knows what's going to happen there. Chabi Alonzo as the Chelsea manager with an awful lot of similarly a a lot of work to make up, but you know a lot of places to go, a high ceiling, one would expect also A fully fledged Michael Carrick at Manchester United and almost certainly losing the first five games of the season now that he's been given a contract, right? That'll definitely happen. And again, you know, we talked about this earlier with what might happen with our Teta Arsenal and how our Tetter and Asenal might evolve at the beginning of next season as well. I mean itberpur and Robertaerb S spurs team that did not get relegated. so That's super exciting. Isn't it? All it's missing is N now and West Hamamp. But David Mooyys and Everton are still here, aren't they? They'll do it for us. John, a question from the chat from Michael Nielsen, twelve sixty two, is John going to be a Liverpool fan now I will watch all of their games, yes, but I don't know. I don't know yeah, speaking in all seriousness, it Bornemouth were a very easy team to to sort of have a soft spot for because You know, they're very ineffensive. Yeah. and they', you know they underdogs and their ownership is smart, their recruitment is smart U and You almost the excuse of watching them every week And same with Ria Vakano as well.ust the excuse to watch them every week and just have A non narrative kind of club to follow was great Whereas I won't get that with Liverpool because everyone will be talking about them. And also you know, people will get mad at me if he doesn't do well. And' like you know I don't really want that, but I do want him to do well. And I believe he's a fantastic coach. And you know even if it doesn't work he if he does join Liverpool and it doesn't work, there's your caveat for you, Joe thenen he will still going on to be a fantastic coach somewhere else Yeah, I don't like the pressure of that. It was the first nine games at Bournemouth were horrible for me Yeah because lots of people were doubters and it seemed like I was I really was wallowing in the mud but fortunately got through that. So it will be it will be fun. I will definitely watch their games, whether or not I'll root for them to quite the same extent as P' another matter. Speaking of like having a team that you know isn't like a total narrative team It's been my plan for some weeks now to pick one in the Pier League No season and sort of follow them I' I ask man. I said a non narrative team, thank you. notot the most narrative team in the league. What are the options? Well, I don't know. this is the thing. I don't think I'm going to pick a promoted side because I just w't know any I don't know anyhone near enough about them. I don't watch championship enough so I'm not going to be Brentford are you best bet. Brentford, I think are not a non narrative team. How are they?pectrentford Brentford are the perfect team. They've got everything together, like they they'll overachieve and I don't know, I'm just I'm just not that into it. doesn't like overachievers. For me, I think you might have noticed this don't know if you you know Yeah yeah. I think the options could be Frest I'' got loads of narrative. No, off course all these teams have narrative. The only team that doesn't have any narrative name narrarrative Fulham is the only non narrative team in you can't talk about them. And I have been thinking Fulam could be the team. What's happening with Marco Silver I don't know. We don't know do we know anything in that He's being linked strongly with Ben Fia now Yeah. He's been linked with jobs elsewhere. Joseie Marinio has now officially signed So he can't be the fullmer manager. I mean, I would love that though Cnt a job take that does feel like at this point. Yeahll take it midway through next season. Yeah given point. His realal Madrid managership was confirmed the other day as well was today. my point was being that maybe that means that Marco Silver might imminently leave be. Yeah I's possible It's possible. I'mly speculating. So I can't do palace because Rubens's already got Palace covered. I'm not interested in Bournemouth now. I think that'd be funny and also I don't want to follow in your foot. Stay in Europe as well? No not interested in that. Chelsea are a kind of non narrative mid table team, but I think they might do better next year Um, well about's theirs. Yeah I mean, eververton are an option You See, what you need is a lunch beted on something I need I need a lunch wager. I need a lunch wager. You need to find a new lunch wager. Sunderland