Finalizing the Memorabilia Challenge Winner

Hello and welcome to the TFo Football podcast. I'm Joe Devine and today I am delighted to be joined by John Mackenzie. Hello All right ass it going? All right, pull that mic right into your face There it is perfect. Sebastian Stafford Bor. Hello Jade ofvine and the Mcurial. the u great guy. It's hard being a commentator, isn't it? What are other descriptive words Moisturized by moisturized? The moisturized Sonous The sonouson Muserquonga dady of T Bogos, Hey, Musir How are you doing? Good thanks. How are you? Hey Joe Hey He's here for a second day with us, Musir. He's going home tomorrow. Nothing to worry about. Nothing to worry about. Now, what are we talking about on today's show? Well, I should tell you at the beginning, at the outset right now that we are recording this in the immediate aftermath of the Argentina Austria game. That's right. We decided to have an earlier day today. So we do not know what has happened in the France Iraq game But I'm guessing that France will win that game. I don't know. I could look like a fool come tomorrow. Good news is I already looked like a fool today, so it really won't make that much of a difference. What are we going to talk about on today's show? Well, Argentina versus Austria, of course, Leonel Messi becoming the outright all time Men's World Cup top goal scorer in fine fashion. Or was it fine fashion? I don't know, we discussed that on today's show We're going to play a very exciting Rndo. We talk about Egypt's first World Cup win. We're going to look a little ahead to England who are playing their second game against Ghana tomorrow. and we're going to check in on points of bad. Did I miss anything P prodducer Ryan Brian is shaking his head. Okay, well there we go. Later, someone will add music to this part. Yes, there we go. Okay. lovely bit of music that was. Now let's begin with Argentina Tw I forgot to write the score down two. Nil, Austria. There it is. That's right, Argentina, of course, beating Austria. twoo Nil in Dallas, Texas thanks to two goals from Leonel Messi, which of course saw him become the outright all time men's go top goal scorer in the World Cup finals. now with eighteen goals, pretty incredible Would you like to hear a stat? That's where we start. We were discussing this stat during our live watchatch along as we watch this game So apparently, since turning thirty five, and I should say Messi is now thirty eight, eight years old. So since turning thirty five, so just including the Katar World Cup and this current one Messi has now scored as many World Cup goals as Pelle did in total That's twelve. It's kind of crazy, that statistic, isn't it? Absolutely wildes. Yeah. Seb Is there a more deserving holder of this honour, do you think? It's really fitting Arguably the greatest player of all time holds a record which is that important within the game. U Different stories, though I loved Mirror Closer having the record. It was great because was there was such a journey attached to that, but you're so close to him that you call him Mirror Closer. Mr love clloser. Mirror Coser. Mirr Yeahah Yeah. that's just the kind of thing that only a familiar friend would say I love him Germany. I'' Le Messi you know Leo Messi. Le Messi. I might never say Leo Messi. I only ever say Leonel Messi. I full name him out of respect. Yeah. You know what I like Joe is that he broke the record with the goal that he did Be of the penalty. Instead of the penalty and Misera and I were talking it is very familiar It is very remiscent of the goal he scored in the Classico years ago against Ramadrid at the Burnabau where there was a step over, he's at the edge of the box. Beautiful finish and then the second goal to kind of put bit of put a bit of distance between him and the rest of the field that will, you know, I guess Kill him backap will chase him over the next couple of years for the record. but I mean, you can't really argue with it, can you? No, no. He didn't have like the best game though, most did, but he still scored two go guyses I wasn't so to the touright. Yeah, Saint John ear during this dream. it's the most chaotic a massy performance I've seen in a big game for a while, you know, so he misplaced some like passes quite weirdly one went out into touch, he played a pass quite later on maybe tired legs that started an Aostrio Cnteratack and just was Not fully locked in, I felt with some of the combination play at certain points. Hving and then of course, obviously the penalty miss where it felt like he was watching to see the keeper dive and then put it wider in the corner. At the same time, the build upp play for his opening goal was classic Messy. The closing goal. it's funny because Messy scores so many goals now that like he scores goals that remind you of his old ones Yeah. So for those who remember the four one steing his own materials. Yeah exactly' just himself. He's like Steven Spielberg making a new film that's remison of Jassic. You have like rappers that like sample themselves. Yeah and make like bangers off like the second song. It felt like that but yeah, like overall like just Mess and you went to raise and John and I were talking actually about how the second goal It felt like Mess he was fully liberated by that. The smiles really came out because I think even at one nill, there was a sense of Let's get to the next round. Yeah. let's get the second one out of the way because I think there is still a lot there's like so much depending on Messi. and every now and again you see cracks in the facade that show you how human he is, like the miss penalty Does that make sense? Yeah, well I was going gonna ask you beyond Messy, were you that impressed by Argentina. I know it's quite hard to distill him out of the te. I wasressed by I was depressed. I was impressed by Rodgo APell. Yes. Each time I see him in a major tournament, he does something different. So the last tournament he was playing these like cross field switches, I wasn't aware he had that passing range on him. This tournament, his positional sense, the amount that he's clearly trusted by Mess, but also tactly by Salone, dropping deep between the centre backacks, peeling outright, a third midfielder in a tight three He was the player, I think that stood up to me. I think Enzo was very busy, didn't do much that stood out, but I think it was very industrial the middle the pitch. And also we talkld about Argentina's defense. lookook, they handled things. they weren't given that much threat. actually there's a thing where players who play for their clubs are maybe a bit volatile when they come for Argentina, we mentioned Marcus Rojo before during the stream, they find a level of discipline and they look very solid. Automandy I thought was very good when they came on too. So yeah, I think Maybe that's a telling thing that the players I've identified I was impressed with for their defensive capabilities, which must be a bit of a concern for Argentina. I think you make the argument that Argentina is sort of a fairly defensively minded team, right? And they know that they've got the magic dust of messy to sprinkle over the top and that will get you a long way. Well I'm going to ask you about how how you think the game went, What do you think of this Argentina side more generally? Before I do, I just want to ask one more question about Messi. We alluded to this already, but Sb How long do you think he will hold on to this for? Be Killian in Bepp is still you know in his middle years in term as far as his career goes, will want to score more goals this tournament. The point was made during the watch along of this game that Argentina's final group game is against Jordan where it feels eminently possible that Messi could score another hatrick or two So maybe his aim will be to score as many as possible in this tournament so as to hold onto that record for as long as possible. but do you think it's I don't know, is it a foregone conclusion that Mmbape will take it at some point? Yeah, I think so also that game against Jordan, depending on what happens between Jordan and Algeria, Argentina could be assured of top spot in the group Messi may not play or he may not play for ninety minutes and he is thirty eight. so that will probably be a smart move I think also and we made this point earlier in the watchatch alarm. there's a chance that By the end of Killin and Bape's career, a World Cup contains more than forty eight teams Yeah and we expand even further and obvious he's a lot younger. so he has Almost a decade. How old is killing back in now? twenty four, twenty twenty seven twenty eight. twenty seven, twenty eight he's got a decade on M messi. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's very possible that By the time he retires, the record is Bother on Yeah. I also think Mbapee's path to all time greatness goes through the World Cup now. Yeah. I don't think Mbapee's path to all time greatness completely ag. I his arc Yeah. I don't think Mbape' going to win multiple Ballondor. But That makes him so interesting, right? fromrom the point of view that I think most greatreat players at least in the present day solidify their legacies in the domestic game bly hasn't. I think like looking back on twenty twenty two, his performance in the World Cup fininal was one of the great moments in World Cup history that period of time where He's one of his players who he is not a consistent force in games when he decides to switch on the power What' you do? He almost single handedly won France Wor Cup they absolutely tot Absolutely. There's a moment in that final where he goes through He's out on the left flank and he beats like three players and then eventually McAallister hacks it clear panics and hacks it clear and you're like, this man destroyed an entire flank of Argentin's defence who were desperate to get position. And you know, he's been terrifying this twenty eighteen. I think that guy is going to claim the all time record, but I think by the time he finishes a career, we won't see a bigger gap. It's not like he hasn't a great club career, but we won't see a bigger gap between performance and and national performance. We won't have seen anything like that. I wonder also with with a Mpp, maybe this is just because he reminds me of Ronaldo Nazario. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't When I watch him play, I don't think he's the kind of player that's still playing at thirty years old. I just don't think he'll have the le leverty that M has had. No, because' the start of the game, having said that I wonder when Ebap's actually going to slow down because he might just remain freakishly fast until he retires. Yeah The other thing is that in this game, at least, it felt like in The moment where Messi scores that second goal. It's almost like he's He's willed it to happen. And in the sense that he now has to pick and choose his moments when he goes, which is something that happens when you are an older player, obviously, you can't play at the same level of intensity the whole game. But it felt th like in that moment, right at the end, he was he just got it into his head. I'm going to score now. Yeah. And and he just switched it on and did, you know, had those short bursts where he can do stuff, which I think that's such an interesting and speaking of someone who's now old and can't do what he used to do. it's one of the hardest things to learn to deal with as a player. I think the learning what your limitations are and how to how to pace yourself through a game. But yeah, I thought in that there was a few moments. There was one as there was one as well in that game where he picks a ball up in midfield. He did the usual thing where he does a couple of pass and one to pass a move gets through the middle at speed and suddenly goes and it was like, oh, there's a flash of what the old f for him Yeah Yeah flash of the old messi, but we don't get that all the time, but he still has the ability to do the things that are incredible that he was doing with increasing well with with with a amount of regularity when he was younger. I think the last goal in particular for me The second goal there the touch he takes to bring it down for the first reception when I think Paradees tries to play the ball to him. it deflects off the defender and he has the reactions and ability to get his leg and respond to it to bring it down great touches the world. Yeah unbelievable. And that's I think that's what maybe something with Mbapee that I feel like he his game relies on those kind of moments so much that I think when you start having to temporize them and not use them all the time, then he will he will be much less effective. I wonder if I think we underappreciate how rare it is to have obviously Messy playing until such a late stations career but playing so well but also a player wanting to do that Right? Because you wonder whether for someone like Not necessarily someone just like Kanan and Bapee but players of his age and going forward into the next generation. Do you want to still be playing football beyond thirty three, thirty four, when the calendar is as full as it is when the demands on a player are so extensive? Do you want to do something else with your life because you can like I feel like footballers after I mean, we're decades after, you know, the the old retirement routine of, you know take a pub and, you know or something like that, you you can do so many things. And so for someone like Mbae who if you hear him speak, he's clearly he's He's an interesting guy. He's got ideas and he you can imagine him doing interesting stuff after he finishes playing football. So you wonder whether he will still be anyway. I can compare Messi to LeBron James in in that sense in terms of the desire, the conditioning. But also even the goals scoring record like LeBron James got the scoring record and he wasn't even a score first player. He scored because he had to win and Messi the same Messi In twenty ten had a spectacular World Cup, didn't score, had several assists, but Messi did what the team needed. in this World Cup, his incarnation is okay, I have to score. That's what I have to do. And I think the LeBron comparison is the same in the sense that the longevity, like these are people that love the game and the gamees rewarded them so much. I don't think Messi is going to go into podcast or golf.li L I don't think get Messi doing mind the game, which is a shame because I think that Messi Messy talking to the right, fellow footballer about game states would be mind blowing. I think his tactical mind is astonishing, but but it's never going to see that podcast, which is a shame. We we started off with that stat, which is he scored more goals the same amount of goals as Pelle since thir five. ridiculous. I think that that's really interesting, right? O on the basis of I'm interested to hear what you guys think of this because on the basis of what we said said you know it feels like his powers have waned and he has to pick and choose his moments and yet he scored all of those goals those twelve goals after thirty five and didn't score tons before, right? The record would clearly be his if he'd have scored a rate that Mbae was scoring throughout his whole World Cup career. Why do we think that He has weirdly come into golding form late. You know, the actors at Stellan Skarsgard rightay G this incredible late career run where like he's just picking his moments and it's like It's not necessarily extended periods, it's not physical acts. It's just like monologues and like down the camera and like Shakespearean style and Mess is almost like in that period of like I'm in my soliloquy era where it's like I'm not going to be running all around the stage. I'm just going to be like focus and intense and brooding. and I think When you have this workup is messy sentimental value. Yeah tootally, thank you. Yes. because I think it's almost like, okay, I can't do the full range anymore. Yeah. I like I'm not terrifying anymore. I'm not like, you know messy of twenty eleven, which was just like you know, it was like it was a holy terror. Yeah, I'm not the Holy Terror anymore. What I am is like I'm like a late era Paul Newman in like rot to pedition where I just have gravity like Messi, what Messi has in this tournament is he has gravitas. Yeah, ye. And that is like he's grav is wisdom is terrifying. like the bit in that, you know, you're talking about we werere talking about before he did a great pretty much analysis about Ag did pain narrow lack of width And the way that message just opens the game up. Yeah. It was like watching someone like unfold So I watching encounter unfold like do the taxes like, you know, perfly the pitch is like so tight and Mxi one pass spreads everything. Well the penalty and the two goals all came from him starting out wide and the game is so tight it across. And the moment the game gets open, Austria completely disorientated because all of a sudden you've got players are doing short sprints to other players all of a sudden' having to run like twenty yards instead of five And they think, okay, this is a new game now, whereas everyone mess, of course goes missing, which It his greatest skill in big games, to disappear. Like Algeria, everyone's watching him with his third goal, all of a sudden, no one's watching him, Tots the edge of the box byy the time the ball arrives, and actually shout out to Almado, who I think is having a kind of Ezo Finanders type World Cup. in a sense he's a breakout player combining very well. Yeahah. You see what I'm saying Yeah And then just Messy does that thing where he opens the picture up and it's suddenly, everything's on his terms Yeah That's the thing, where he just he turns the game to his talk about game states, he makes it his state. Yeah. But we talk about the goals But like each of those scenarios, the penalty and the two goals were started by him. and then he arrives later on. and that's that's his genius, right? It's not just the goal scoring.'s the it's the ability to break open those kind of games. there's a thing actually, there's a moment you see with great players. You can tell where they're catching fire in big games. Sidan would do it. if Sadan got a couple of touches in the first five minutes a huge game he was going to cook you. And Messi actually was a little bit ineffectual in the closing stages, then he wins a tackle high up. that flank and then something goes off and you're like, o he's locked in again and his ability just to take like these five minute pockets of games. All of them have got it, Lemini Miles got it and Bapppe's got it. Their ability to like just dominate a game for five minutes at a time. And it's no coincidence that a few minutes after that tackleout in the flank he's possession that he's creating the goal. I think it's just You know, the great players have that ability to like just When you say it like that, it makes me think of musicians who talk about the fact that they can't just sit down and write a great song.. what they can do is work on the environment that they're in so that when the inspiration strikes, they're able to capture it. you know And that's what Messi does in the game. He's a producer Yeah yeah. He's a producer.s He's the crazy Jones of Yeah yeah yeah is is ye Yes, I love this analogy you've made because He creates the entire context I mentioned Ir Van Percy I can't remember the game it was May it was Birmingh, where Van Percy gets the ball on the halfway line and just like sets the table. He's like, okay, that ball is going left. I'm going to jog here. No one's going to watch me. Ill have another touch here. and by the end, you know, he's like six yards out side foot finish. And then you look back at the disarray that he's created at three different points and defenders who were really paying close attention to Vamp Perscy who all of a sudden like I had one message in my inbox, now I've got fifteen. then I've got all this admin and that's what Messi does. he just gives you So so much happenmen, you know, it's like, yeah yeah. All right, well, listen, we were going to talk about Argentina. We still will, but we'll now do it after a break and after aondo. So join us again in a moment when also I'm just hearing from producer Ryan that we have got JJ's second hand gift. John, do you know where your is for today? I didn't realize we were doinginner,? Yeah, We were supposed do it yesterday. that you were category, remind me. This is the third one So as a reminder for people at home, we're playing this game throughout or it's a bit more of a tournament really. Playing this tournament throughout the course of the next five and a half weeks. It's called the second handand Memorabilia Challenge And it's round three today. It was supposed to be yesterday, but then you were surprised off and I forgot. It's the International Inident round. You had fifty pounds each to spend This was buy a football related item originally from a country outside the UK. So if you know where your item is in the office, you are free now to go and grab it. And then when you come back we'll play Rondo, okay Now, welcome back from that delightful break. Let's play a Rndo. Mosa, did you enjoy your first Rndo yesterday Yes, of course, I'm just happy to be involved. What was the Rndeay yesterday? I didn't catch it. What was the Rnde yesterday? I't British Trfer Records. It was British Trfer Records in and out. It was start well then I fell off a cliff. I mean, most of them are from last summer, presumably. That's true. What was really funny to me is that in two thousand nine It jumped from thirty million having gradually been increasing to eighty when Ronaldo went to R R All all of a sudden, it more than double. There's the same thing in Scottish football where like I think Was it Celtic who there Record signing was like Chris Sutton for It's twenty years. It's at the cost of like a Fredo, isn't it? There's chocolate. Don't get. Don't get me stired on cost of Freddo go the gold They speaking my language. N twentyuenty Jones nons. The cost of Fredao is deep lore of the te listen Listen, I could take both the ches. It something for everyone Okay Here's the Rndo. Now here's how the Rndo works. I ask a question that has multiple correct answers. We go around in a circle. These guys give me correct answers if they give me incorrect answers They are ejected from the Rndo if they dither or dilly dally or take a certain length of time or displease me in any way. I eject them from the Rndo. The final person standing is named Rondo Del Ray, I know that's wrong And today the category is as follows. what I'm looking for is countries that either have previously hosted the World Cup or will are confirmed to host the World Cup in the coming eight years, okay Of course, you can only there are countries that have hosted multiple times they only count as one. So when Mexico' taken it's taken. There you go. There's a free. Mousa, I will start with you. Mexico. Yes,es, Mexico. Mexico is now. I so hy. Okay. thats the three instances, of course, of Mexico. But that only counts as one. That only counts as one. nineteen seventeen, nineteen eighty six and then the current tournent U what's he you? The United States? Yes, the United States, of course in nineteen ninety four and now England. England, of course, just once in nineteen sixty six, but you know, only needs to happen once and we did win it so just don't just whatever, shut up. I hate you. Muser? Chile Yeahet, do you know what? I wondered if Jelly might be one that would catch people out a little later? Do you remember the year? sixty two. sixty two. The year of your birth. Is that right around? Wow.een sixty two. That was barbaric. Whatas it though? South Africa. Yeah, South Africa twenty ten Uh Korea South Korea? Yes. Yes. No North Korea. The famous North Korean World Cup Well, famously, North Korea in the demilitarized zone had a famous successes at the World Cup in history. Yes, in two thousand two, of course, Japan, South Korea Mister back to you? Italy You know what? I'm now because of how locked in you are, I'm worried I should have prepared a tie brereaker and I. He's just reading them off his brain. You can see it. He's got them all written inside his skull. Argentina Argentina, of course, that was in nineteen seventy eight. The famous military Hunter World Cup. We all enjoyed that one. John Japan U ye, Japan was also in twenty South Japan. Not to be confused with North Japan. L it? France. Yeahep, ye, France. France nineteen ninety eight, of course That backs to you. Italy U ye, well, it' is multiple times. So nineteen thirty four ait have we had it Ital? We've had it Italy. You're absolutely right. You just didn't leave them from. Okay, Seb. ejected. You're out. You' ejected.. Give me one moment just so that I can make this smaller. I'll be more easy to be able to see it. Okay, fine We're back in play. Seb is out because he wasn't paying attention. And John Canada backack to you Canada, of course, you can have M I'm going to give you some strategic assistance here. Don't let John just sweep up with when he said Canada, o actually there's none left because Mexico and the US have already gone okay. Russia Russia, of course, twenty eighteen I'm scraping the barrel of A actually no one said Qatar yet so I'll say that. No one said Qatar, twenty twenty two. You're absolutely right. Saud Arabia Saudi yet, you can have the twenty thirty four hosts Saudi Arabia I I've got a funny feeling that the next one there's like hundreds of countries involved One of not hundreds of countries involved. There's three. No, there' games there are games the cross continental world Crossental Saudi Arabia could then be ye. Yeah ye So there's something happening in South America. It's up to you. And's some happening in North Africa We' taking some time. I'm going to say Morocco because I think Morocco might be Morocco. of onene of the official hosts next year, yes Yes, Spain are also one of the official hosts and they also hosted it in nineteen ninety two Jon Portugal Yeah, I was going to say confused. Portugal, one of the other official houses of the next. Urquis Uruguay, of course, nineteen thirty and also anniversary match host in the next tournament. And there's another one around that area. Back to you, John. Or is there? Or is there Is there still some available? How many available are there? There are F remaining correct answers. Germany Germany, Yep. you could So Germany two thousand six, also West Germany nineteen seventy four Brazil Brazil, of course, twenty fourteen and nineteen fifty There are three remaining correct answers, John to fuddle his brain Rest def fence. I'll sell a the uer. I only know useful things. P's at midnight, so can I order another computer g for Joe Be B is I h the ch so much. I do hate the chat, mry. much job Give me an answer. G gotta hurry'm there. thirird country. F, four, three, S country, two, S country. one Paraguay. Paraguay is one of them. correct. Yeah Is it next one of them Is that one one next It's one of it's one of England. One of the anniversary. England's been taken It's been taken. Okay, no, you've gott to get one. You've got to get the last onect We could have a situation where we have no win. I love it win. I win it. Iitting w. mid bllock.fortunately Johnitting. And then you remember I looked to the camera and talked about how much I hated everyone. That was funny becausecause when I was going to say it I should have said it actuallyad. Don't say it now. I won't say now. becausecause you don't want John to win John You're taking out You're not even near the microphone jum The microphone isn't good for my thinking. Okay, well, that's too bad because you have to stay on it at all times. I'm going to have a sip of water and then when I finish sipping this, get a long Joe, makeake it a really long s. I do have another one, I think. another one I think Yeah, there are two more remain answers. I'm going count down five Oh. We say country to say country. So I think this is wrong. country. I think this is wrong because I think it's a euros that they shared with Germany but I'm going to say Poland. Poland is wrong. Yeah. It's wrong. Switzerland. Yes, Switzerland, nineteen fifty four you could have had. And the other one, of course, nineteen fifty eight Any takers? Sweden Sweden. I nearly said Sweden, but then I thought was say Sw. I was to Winter Olympics. I was going to say Switzerland before. I think Moouser deserves that the Battle of Ber. He knew better than me. I made some honorrable draw. made honorraable draw. That's it is. Well, actually it's not honorraable draw because the way we do things here at Mooser is that when nobody wins I'm the winner. So today the house wins. The house always wins eventually What a terrifically competitive. We did it quite well though. I I restored, I restored you from feeling yesterday I was pretty poor. I thought you were pretty good yesterday, but today I was roping yesterday. The other day I was so poor that Ruben messaged me to complain. Oh my goodness. That's how bad I was so. I apologize for that. Let me tell you as well that the fun thing I always find about the Ronda. is that players don't realize this until they play half the trick is a listening Yeah half the time, people go out because they give answer that's already been given. You're thinking in manual So both of these guys went out because they they repeated answers. Yeah. I generually don' rememberaring I didn'tar. seventy percent of the points are unforced errors or whatever they No way weird like that. That feels c. J just have to stay the game long enough to that's kind to the Rndo. like having the Rndo at your feet is a bad thing. Okay actually can we actually stop of the Rndo as soon as it arrives? I have a different thought, with Squash. I think people end it because It's the desire for oblivion Well it's the endless path. It's like this shiny path. You look at it's like Oh my goodness, this endless motoray and then you just Please divert me. I think people it's not unforced there. it's very much existend. No I think you have to embrace something from the feeling of oblivion It's breaking free.ike people say, love about squash, I love the end the hurts' be like, I love the end of the. Why are we here? Y That is the point going. We hit end end Pers play on endlessly. They do not know why they are here. And yet they are compelled to keep playing H we go. I was like, you know this's the secondion This's the second impression of the day. This is like being back on my own podcast. This' like when Ryan just goes intoression Anyway, we were almost done talking about M's the scun. We were almost done talking about Argentina. We're going to dip back in just very, very briefly on two points. The first one, we talked about messy for ages there. Argentina is a team John they found some ways to unpick Austria here. It was a tricky tricky game for them. My main takeaway though from watching this was, okay team can see how they could beat teams. can also see how they would beaten. As I watched everything through the perspective of England and I finished that game thinking E England will beat them. Eng will beat. You think England will beat everyone anyways? No. It's not will beenta. I'm not certain that England would beat France. I'm going to watch the game at ten PM. and then afterwards I'll say that. But right now I'm not saying it. I don't know. I think they have fallabities,n't they? They have I'm just enjoying Ryan crossing out and uncrossing out the running order because he thought we were done. Argentina, he was like done, we're done with them. and then And then you brought it up quickly on crossed it out. so I wasn't listening to anything you're saying, but yeah one think is Argentina have fabilities? Yeah, for sure. And you know this is you it is a pragmatic Argentinian side. I think the fact that they have Messy who can pull off those moments shouldn't you know distract us from that fact. I thought in this game they they made changes that they needed to make. we talked a lot in the run up to this game about Both of these teams like to use the center of the pitch. And we saw, I think gradually through through the game that Argentina had earlier than Austria trying to find ways of using width despite the fact that they probably don't have the best players to exploit those situations But yeah, they they they found a way and I think These tournaments these tournaments always end up being you have to get through the group stages in a sort of fairly pragmatic way. and then when you get to the knockout stages, it becomes a very different beast. And I think We know at this point that Argentina can get through the knockout stages very comfortably. The question is going to be what are they going to look like when they get to the when the rubber starts hitting the road with with the better teams where it's not just about making sure you're getting through and Messi is popping in a few goals for you. It's about actually being able to compete over the nineteen minutes and and construct a game plan that will consistently work against the better side. So yeah, I think they've been impressive. I think Scalonei is a fantastic coach and you could see that even just from the way that he approached this game. but I think they are still a team who are very pragmatic. They've not done a huge amount in the last two games. They've not created a ton of chances. They've relied on Messi for all of their goals and I guess we're still waiting to see what that will look like later on. Yeah, for sure Sab, I was quite impressed by Austria, the way that they played aggressively. they went after Argentina from the beginning. You were too, but you also said were you a little disappointed as well. Yeah, was I thought the game plan was good. They pressed them high, they're aggressive. There was a bit of physicality and a bit of needle in the game which I thought kind of suited them. And it seemed like a design tactic to ruffle some of the more combustible characters in that Argentinian team Furnough I think when they did retrieve possession, even though they force turnovers quite hard of the pitch, they didn't use it particularly well. That's. I also think whilst There just wasn't enough craft. So when Austria had possession phases in Argentina in Argentina's half It was very predictable. There wasn't enough variety. I think it took until I mean after sixty eight minutes, they'd only really had one shot on target and that was Marcel Sabbotz's direct free kick which was un aboutout cross really, I think It wasn't I also thought Connie Chruckamaker should have come on a little bit earlier because a carrier, someone that can be aggressive with the aball at his feet, but also can see some passing angles didn't feel at any point like they had the attacking quality to cause a problem, or to cause any sort of panic in the Argentinian defense or to force Martinez to make kind of urgention. I think they look good in the first quarter where both teams were trying to go through the middle. they looked competitive and I think once the game moved out of those areas, then they looked much less think there could still be a stumbling block for teams in the knockout stages, right? We would expect them to go through second in the group. Yeah probablyroably still. You could imagine them putting together a kind of what we' call like a Switzerland like performance from previous World Cups They are They're probably not going to beat themselves. And remember, they got beaten by two Lieam Messi goals today. So thats that's kind of add yourself to the list, boys, right? Um, So they're competent, their defending was pretty good. I was impressed by the goalkeeper I thought he played really well. So I unm lucky with the second goal te because he makes a terrific save before it actually happened. Yes. U and in a certain type of context in certain type of context you can imagine them finding the goals that they needed, set pace delivery if it was a little bit better I wanted them to go a little bit more direct actually. There were times when it became a little bit over deliberate which didn't suit the players they had on the pitch. I don't know what you guys think about that. Yeah no agree agree agree Giving the centre backacks more challenges, I mean, there were a couple of times Otter Mendi came on around that period where they're trying to adjust the new defensive configuration, they looked a little bit. lack of Argentina and there could have been something to exploit. I think especially whenever substitution is made, it's a time to exploit, I think maybe a lack of chemistry in between the new lineup and the old one. Oh you m in a bit more. Yeah But generally speaking, I don't think Austria could have done much more. think I think these are both teams that are optimising their available resources. Yeah. I'm not sure that Argentina's ceiling is far higher than what we've seen at the moment And I'm also not sure how many goals either of these teams have in them against truly opp position. Yeah I think also, so I think Lima' selection as a fullback today was probably deference to messy because you're trying to take that away.. I don't think Vanner is a attackking midfielder work todayt really didn't really have to make pressure on the game I think I want Leimer in a more central position because he's more influential. So let's see what happens. They'll play Algeria in next in next game. If they win they'll go through they'll go through. Yeah, but depending what happens this evening, I guess Oh yes, that's true. Yeah. I mean, they would very likely go through as best for Yeah very likely Yeah four points. Yeah. But if they finish second, they would then probably go to face Spain Yeah. in the round of thirty two which is a nightmare. That is a bit of a ny I'd be curious to see that that match upp. I'll say also I was listening to Duncan Alexander of the athletic on the Totally foootball podcast yesterday and he was saying that as it stands, the models all are tracking to say that negative two goal difference for third place should still be enough to go through as one of the best eight. That' making the cut if you're playing a golf tournament. That's what Th three points and negative two goal difference. Right There we go Okay, moving on from that, congratulations to Argentina, of course. Congratulations also due to Egypt, whom last night came from a goal down to beat New Zealand and record their first ever win in the World Cup fininals, Glals from Zio Sella and Trezge secured the victory in Vancouver. Musa, Egypt's first ever World Cup win. We mentioned this already on the podcast over the last few days. it's kind of crazy to think that they haven't had one previously. Yes, and I feel like they broakke character. I feel like this was a more Enerpring in Egypt we're accustomed seeing at recent international tournaments, including AfCOon, where Egypt often scrapeed forward. and I don't think that's because they're inherently conservative. I think haven't have the tools in attack. Mar Mu Ziko and Tresega alongside Salah. theseese are really strong you know secondary tertiary options in attack. and it allowed Egypt to have more open game I think that came at the expense somehow of the conservativ m in recent tournaments as some of the defending from Egypt was quite panicky and they're quite unsure of themselves. that's also pressure to New Zealand. Pressure them in wide areas, understanding where they like playing out from and then just clamping down. and they were really good they were really good at that in their first game, the two all draw. Really impressive again here. I mean, it could have been two no. and They were really impressive in New Zealand for first I third of this game Yeah could have claimed it. So yeah, like one of the kind of Underrated not classics, but one of the games that might go under the radar because of theolume of footballs and played at this tournament but certainly a great encounter. It a really good performces' that New Zeal team as well. L Elijah Just from from New Zealand. I thought he played I thought he played one in both of the first games played well last night. Yeahah. yeah. He's definitely moving somewhere. You'd have thought Yeah. He had a he had a great I actually watched him quite a bit this season because I followed the Scottish you know title challenge a fair way and he's playing for Motherwell and they you know, they were up in the top half so they played a few games and I was impressed with him there, but he's been incredible in this tournament. Yeah, o. also you know we were speaking earlier about the notion that Kimin and Bape maybe won't have the longevity of Messi. I feel like Mosala maybe will. You know, Mosala iss like the only other player that I watch that I think like I could imagine Mosala still playing scored a very messy goal actually the one two was o Um And then the finish into the far corner just stroked it and I miss again, you know, like very much like you have a team built around Messy for Argina, the team is built around Sal and his strength as it should be with a talent like that. but credit to the supporting cast for stepping up. Again, like we saw like Mos Sala get them to the Afghon final and everyone going, like why didn't win? Well, actually because he was He didn't much in the tank. I mean I think the second most advanced player in that AfCon I think was Eleni who was primarily defensive. so ye I'm sure he's glad to have the extra help in his advancing years. Yeah, for sure. Okay, right, let's take another break quickly and when we come back, we will briefly look ahead to England. We will fill in our points of bad scores and we have the third installment of the second hand ame I keep forgetting the name of it. What's about? No no, that's there's a third imagine a third game to play So games these games. But what is life if not If it play, what is life, if not me? All right, better. We'll be right back. And we're back. Okay to real what another terrific break that was. John, Ill tell you what, let's combine our points of bad scoring and looking ahead to England because the game that one of the games at least so tomorrow that we do need to predict for is England Ghana and we also need to predict for our games today Yeah It's very sad news and points are bad. Unfortunately, what happened is we were waiting for so long for JJ to fill in his score. it's not quite his fault as much as I'm desperate to blame him. But no Kaya, John and I didn't get around to filling in our scores for Argentina, Austria. So we've all taken the five point penalty. Luckily JJ thinkiction was K I should take a six point penalty for trying K should take a ten point penalty. Oh it's quite far behind us already though. I I feel a little bit sorry for. Let's just give him a four point penalty then to be patronising. Yeah, we could do that the scores as they currently are. JJ's in last place on one hundred and eight Then it's car on a hundred. So there's a fair big gap there. It's so close between you and me. I'm on eighty nine, you're on eighty eight after the first game. So one of the games that we're going to predict for tomorrow island England versus Ghana. They play in Boston, obviously it's the second game of the tournament for both teams. Do you think they'll take the same starting lineup? into the team. I think they will in this game and they'll be a little bit more Fluid with the last game against Panama. Yeah to stance you've ever given me the bodcast I wasiving the answer and I was like, I wonder what he would do if I just stopped And ye was surprising. Yeah, it was pleasing. were a little bit pissy about it. You were just like, oh, I've not really thought that far ahead, right? You thought you had plenty of breathing. I thought I had time to continue myround work but no, apparently not. said were you going to m Jjects? Yeah, I was going to say we were asked to do this for an athletic And stop now yesterday And I think it probably makes sense to keep the back four maybe the back sits together just because there are a few security issues. But I wonder whether because of how important Engl this press is going to be throughout this tournament, maybe you do a little bit of rotation with the wide forwards and maybe Rash would starts instead of Gordon, Saker instead of Madaki and maybe just because I think Belliam played terrifically well in the first game, but Morgan Roggers is a brilliant player too and you probably wouldn't lose a lot by putting him in. And also you've got to play some of these guys into the tournament at the same time and just because they're going to matter at some point Absolutely But you this is it's easy to underestimate Ghana because of their their turmoil pre tournament and the sacking and the and the changing coach, but this is a good side with talent. They're not a they're not a team to underestimate at all No Okay, fine. M, do you think England have anything that sets them apart from the other elite teams here at the tournament? I wouldn't say sets them apart, but I would say they have almost as wide a range of tools as anyone. They can play a variety of games, they can beat you in open place set pieces. Um They can absorb huge amount of pressure they learned that from Southgate but they also have complex attacking systems in the final thirds. they just have goals. They have arguably the widest range of firepower. That's interesting you say that because the other question I was going to ask is, obviously if they get a win against Gharner, they'll have six points they'll be through, you would expect to see them rotate the team against Panama. Are there any players that you would like personally to see play in that game that maybe haven't featured so far? Well, the obvious ones Roger Saker. I still m should start with the same line I should just go again with that. And if they get a decisive lead or if they look like they're going through, start subbing as soon as possible and maybe get like some of the strikers involved. Yeah. Sokins Yeah, just get them some touches, some reps Um because stick down burn up front pan of mother. I just think, look, just try and give as many As many players at what do they call it basketball touches the rock as possible as many touches as possible just to get everyone conditioned because it's going to be a grueling last few stages. it's also important to have everyone involved. notot just from a conditioning perspective, but for the sake of the camp, right? Everyone's going to be participating. Al you never know what's going to happen. You may have injuries and you don't want a disenfranchised player having to come in You know, in a quarter fininal and having to to kind of de for the first time. Absolutely. Also a a lot relies on Kaine not getting an injury, right?ight not they can still win the World Cup without Kaine. to me, that's without question It's more that you want to get them used to playing a different system of style just in case he gets an injury and then you're having to build up differently. So look, of course Tickle has a plan B for Harricane because Jude Bellingham's right there and is an extraordinary one size fits all, a midfielder that is just almost a victim of his range of talents. spepelling him slotting him and then working out players to like coming around him because I think he's the he's the second player that the team has built around. So like he could play in goal even Yeah Yeah yeah Yeah ye Yeah abbsuteness. Yeah. Okay. well John, you're not allowed to submit your prediction for England Ghana because you'll be picking last as the current leader. But what you know, if you could if you had a fresh slate, what would you pick? What do you think? Well depending what you pick. so Right I'll mayaybe throw the question back at you. Asides from the game. I find you wouldd like me twenty I'll be ten, Nil. Let's move on to the next section. Here we go. What point's a bad prediction. no no, I'm not really because we' got to wait for JJay and Kaier to fill fill those in. what I believe they not. I think they have. They've done them for today. They haven't done them for tomorrow. We're all over the place because we'rere recording podcasts halfway through games, which is why And it was five point we've been on to I' to them for a while What I am looking for from us though are predictions for France Iraq. So Kaya has gone for three nil JJ's gone for three one 'm I'm feeling brave about France I'm going to say they're going to win five now. N. What do you think? I'll go four Nil. I would have gone five Nil, but Maybe ye. Okay, you can take for Nil. Norway Senegal, that's another fascinating game time is that on Re late that one. twowo AM is it? That's two AM. I don't know. Maybe it's one because's by Norway Senegal. JJ's put two on Norway. K' put two on Senegal, which I think is interesting U I really have no idea what that game is going to look like. so I'm going to sort of I'm going to say one nilill Norway I feel like Ellen Horan's going to score a a ninetieth minute goal in what was otherwise a thrilling nail there. What do you think Cone want two w one or Senagogal? Yeah, two one both ways is taken. Right One AM for that game UK time. one AM UK time? Yeah. Sagaud. You've really not let me left me with anything, have you? It's like I can't even go one one. You can't go one one though Rest def fense. Belsa. Oh Belsa. Gam there Rcketly. Squash is pointless. thenen Gch No I'm not going to give you a prediction. Jokess on you. I'll take the five points, please. No know I respect him even more now. I love that he went there Um Okaykay, well let's go Three, two Bit is in Norway, O not too P it in as Norway,' Noray.. I don't believe that, but like yeah. We've got Jordan Algeria is the late late game. JJ's taken three all in that game, which I think is damn. Yeah, damn it. That sounds like an alternative R and B artist. Jord Jord Algeria,. It's a banner for. It's great that And then yeah, JJ second three three Ka second two one to Algeria. I'm I'm just going I'm going to take two Nil to Algeria. What about you? I mean, one Nil Algeria is there. Nil Nil also takeaker here. I'll go to one Algeria. that is taken. That's one of the ones I'll go with Rneail Algeria. Renail. All right. There we go and we'll get them to predict their others off camera before they arrive tomorrow U And if if you're watching this podcast tomorrow, that hasn't happened I'm going be I'll pretend to be happy about it on the show, but just now I'll be absolutely seething. I'll be seething Lid, all right One more thing to do before we finish the podcast today. It's installment three of the second hand eBay Challenge. Now. I thought you gave it a name ith a colon in it. One of my favorite things to do is to change the name of things every I say. And today it's called the secondhand eBay Challenge. veryery exciting. Now, it's round three of the secondhand eBay Challenge. This is the Innational Inident challenge. What does that mean? Well, it means that John JJ had fifty pounds each. That's the allotted amount of money for this specific round To spend on something from eBay, they wanted to buy a football related item originally from a country outside of the UK. That was this installment. Previous rounds, we had the cult Ho round where you spent thirty pounds. We originally had the bargain round where you spent twenty pounds. The amount of money is increasing every week as well. veryer exciting. So Seb here, he's got JJs, he's got JJs to read out and to show, but John, let's start with you. me Yeah, what have you got for us? What have you filled in for the International Inident round and how much did you spend on it What was the spending limit was a fifty pounds fifty pounds. I spnd less than fifty pounds on this. I don't remember A fact I can tell you if you want. I don't worryt really matter that much. I spent fififty pounds exactly onious There you go. Show I don't believe you, but that's fine. What have you bought? So I've gone for a memorabilia from a World Cup. What is that? From two thousand two Can we see that on the camera, Jamie? I'm going to open the box. It's a box. Oh, it's a box Oh it's. This is the official watch of the two thousand two Nooray. world Norway. Who makes it? Wh who's the mak? I don't know who made it actually? is the maker from South Korea, Japan. I don't have to be a thief ass surely. I don't know Well you can only get it from that world c. Wow. my God. How about that? Ryan Oh you can't put one you can't put a pole in the live chat, can you? I still haven't given you the permission to do that. I'll hold on, let me do that. That is like it's quite a cool watch as well. Like it's kind of Like if James Born in the nineteen fifties, where's that watch Yeah That is like a cool watch. Lgit, ha've seen that Timothy Dalton would wear that and he could use it to cut glass. That actually looks amazing Yeah, you like cut diamonds Yeah like like a diamond cut. Diamond thief ye Yeah. Diamond thief produce that. That is a b dude, that's There's some whispering over there in the corner fif J Oran. Yeah fine. That's an absolute steal. That's gorgeous. Do you wantan to tell us anything else about it, John? No. Can I have a Have you worn it yet? No. That's amazing. You've got to wear it, right? One of my favorite things. I mean, it's a very it's a very beautiful watch. One of my favorite things about he's even after guys. should wear it, Your last item was that there was a nice emotional story behind. There's no emotional story behind this, but you do like watches. I do like watches. You spend a lot of time watching YouTube videos about how to fix watches. That's true. Have youve seen Rsell Crow's Unb belieie it really good.. He's got a watch like podcast. He's got a watch podcast. he's video pod.'s got a podc just every once in a while. So Russell Crow is a watch guy. W And obviously being Russell Crow means he can get like incredible things. So there's a watchmaker in Italy who who made a series of watches for him fifty I think he made fifty watches for him styled around gladiator. No way. for some anniversary of the thing So yeah, he he's one of these guys who is in the privileged position of being able to You know, really weaponize weapon his obsession with watches. I That's a gorgeous watch, by the way, I have to say. Yeah actually looks. Iidentified we wherear it. Did we get the watch on camera is it that do you want me to hold it right in front of the cameras Yeah, is it possible you hold this for for a second? Let me turn Which one you actually, do you mind give it a try Jon C your camera's over here in the corner. Is it going to be in focus there, Jamie?. He's going to come and focus it everyone The audio listeners are going to love this part Don't worry. if they're still listening, they've been here all the way till the end It's not going work. I'd say just keep trying. It's not like we're live in front of thousands of people or anything. Ites't matter. No. You got it? There it is. They were asking. They were asking in the chat. They wanted to see Nothing worse than having an item off and then not being able to show the item That's fine. we don't need to see you. We've seen more than enough of you How about that terrific? Well done, John That's nice. I mean, it' certainly caught Musser's attention. Unfortunately, Musser isn't the person that's voting for the winner today. It is the live chat and we'll put the poll in the chat very shortly after we have found out from Sed what it is that JJ's bought Yes. and what he sent you to read about it. Yeah, do you want me to reveal the item first or to read what JO seent me. Well, you've seen what he's written Would it be funnier to do it which way around I'm going to reveal the item first. Reveal the item first. Okay, this is what JJ's bought for the International Inident category He texts me to say this is very good It is actually. So this according to JJ, is a twenty ten South Africa Nelson Mandela football tie. Wow. whichich is the camera, Joe U Any of the c ones. It has picturesJ. It has pictures of South African things on it. It is a fantastic tie. What more can I say about the tieQion mark Well, first, it costs forty nine ninety nine cents including postage. Really? So that's quite impressive. Very good OJJ. Second, it has pictures of Nelson Mandela on it. Let's just check that it actually does Um There's pictures of everything other than Nelson on here. Oh, if there's if there's false information about the tie, then I think that will that will impact the voters Hang on. hang on P is in the chat by the way Poll is in the cham you describe what you're seeing, Sep A lot of different pictures of things which aren't necessarily obvious at the moment. Right. We're still yet to confirm The Nelson Mandela aspect. Right. It does say South Africa twenty ten on it. Okay? Nelson Mandela Bay, but that's words. That's not a picture. That's not a picture It's a little faded, so I might just be I might be doing JJ disservice We're still looking We're still tide're still looking for Mandala. We're still looking for Mandala on the side. Yeah, M I will read everything else Oh there's more to read. Oh there's much more. So second it has pictures of Nels Mandala on it not I Nots a tie exclamation mark. Third, it would look fantastic even outside of South Africa. Fourth, I think my friend, the author and comedy writer Joel Golby, actually found this so he should get credit. Right. So that's him ejected from the game really. I have to say also JJ name dropping well he's not even here. There we go. Sounds like part of responsibility. And fifth, if you close it If you hold it close to your ear like a seashell, mse You can faintly hear the beautiful never ending drone of eighty thousand vizilas. U I would not vouch There' two very big claims made of this tie, neither of which have been verified I have certainly found a lion on this. I found a rhinoceros and an elephant. I have not found The former presidents of Africa. Wow. I have to continues. The poll has finished incredibly Hang on, hang on, are we not wait, wait, wait, wait, wait We're accepting that this is forty nine pounds ninety nine ps worth of hold on, hold on. The poll has finished. What happened was that JJ when we initially revealed the tie, JJ was instantly quite far ahead in the vote. He was up to sixty percent of the vote. The more that we revealed that there were factual inaccuracies in his comments about the tie, that his score dropped and dropped And I ended the poll at a perfect fifty fifty between John and James. Respectfully, this is like When someone's on trial mur and they're acquitted because you can't find the weapon. I mean this tyre it's actually quite uncertainting because it's raising more questions, is it? than it answers? There arees thanks to this tyre that are quite different There are troubling elements. Okay. Here's what I'm gonna do. becausecause it's fifty fifty in the poll Be becausecause it's fifty fifty in the poll, I'm going to allow our guest Musa Konga to choose the victor. Now, Mis Kon, do you choose The Nelson Mandela Tie Or do you choose the official FIFA Watch of two thousand two? What do you want to win? I think we I want to win, I feel may if I may. Yeah Oh I found e watch. the watch The watch made claims it could substantiate I am entirely convinced that's the its the purpose of this watch I should not, in good faith ascertain the origin or the purpose of this timeie. Lion Where is the tie from? He can't hallucinate as t the original purpose of the tie.not Cnot. Well there we go. Wh'it another next wee to John. know Jn. Oh pooor old JJ. He'll be JJ's unfortunate of him. he's not been here for two of the three games. There's another one tomorrow. We're playing another one tomorrow because John and JJ are both in the studio. So JJ will have a chance to claw this back to three one, but you heard it. The people and Muser I've got an absolute zingger for tomorrow Zgm I love this game so much. I love this game so much. Okay. I fear the damag' reputation. Ireparable. There we go All right, John Mackenzie, thank you very much. Step Step of floor, thank you very much. Musa Rwonga, thank you very much. There we go. It's been a pleasure to hang out with you for two days. Really enjoyed it. Thanks to prodroucer Ryan and to producer Jamie Chotling over there in the background. We'll be back tomorrow. We are live streaming, of course, our watch along is for the England game. I believe our live stream starts at eight PM tomorrow So if you're only interested in the podcast part of it, come along after the England game. We'll be recording that around quarter past eleven. But until then, Tara, goodbye, good night, Aur revoir, B Anue and farewell friends V