Tournament Format and Final Predictions

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And as the US men's national team steps into the spotlight on home soil, Boss is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forwards with confidence, express their individuality, and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring from Boss Performance And soccer fans, BosSs has you covered too, whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in boss performance, or show your pride from the stands, in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors and badges. Own the moment with confidence. disiscover the Boss pererformance collollection, as worn by the US men's national Soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos, and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own boss at boss. com or at your nearest boss store Hello and welcome to the TFO Football podcast. I'm Joe Devine. And today I'm delighted to be joined by John MackKenzie. I really didn't like your intonation there. You didn't like it? No. I switched it up a little bit for you this year. I don't think David Attenburgh would have done that y. That's all I'm saying. Well now that' we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Welcome to Ring for Analysis, the episode series. That doesn't make any sense. The thing We do, where I read an article published by the athletic and John rings a bell that sounds like this When he wants me to pause so that he can offer some analysis. Today, we're doing an article written by Rob Tanner. This was published on may the twenty seventh, so a couple of weeks ago, a few days after the England World Cup squad announcement, and it's titled as follows, England twenty twenty six World Cup Watch Who should really feel hard done by over being ignored Now, John, what do we talk about in today's epise? We talked about David Attenborough a lot. That was right at the beginning Before we even got into the episode. Yes, we did. Where did we go after that? We talked a little bit about you talked about resolving Moods and Resolving melodic harmony melodic h?. We talked about interrogative lift. Of course. We talked about a lot of things before we even got to the article in many respects. If you're not interested in that, you might want to skip forward thirty minutes or so Yeah. Beyond that though, we talked about, I mean, there's a few players that come up in today's conversation. One is Harry Mcuire, Morgan Gibbs White appears as well, Cole Palmer and Phil Foden, we talk about those players. And then also towards the end, we talk about Ivan Tony, who was selected. Ivan Tony as I like to say Ivan Tony as well. It's wrong isn't it Ivan met a man named Ivan for a long time, but they're around. How do Russians say it? Do they say Ivan? Ivan Ivan Ivan. Yeah. Ivan the Terrible. Yes. Whereas Ivan the tank engine? That's Ivor. Oh that was Iv Welsh. Oh that's Ivor Evor. Evor Evor? Evor Tudor. Ev Of course, Ev Eagor E. Oh that was Eagor. Eagle. Ior. Ivore the Ivore the engine. Now imagine when we were talking about that David Atenbur S segue, this is very much essentially what happened But also we get to the end, I give you my piction get to the end eventually. I give you my prediction for where England will finish in the World Cup and John doesn't. But we do talk about what we think Toull's expectations might be around players and how we think they're going to play. Did I miss anything? No, you know what they say about Thomas Toull? What are they say? existance of Thomas Toull presupposes the existence of Thomas Wonkle. That's right. And when you said that to J.J Bull, laugh a lot, didnn't he? He did. But you were a different company now.gh We laughed a lot. There you go. We were in the recording environment, you know, where things like that become so much funnier than they may Yeah in a cold life. Do you remember what we corpsed about that one time In the Toting film stududios not long ago corpsing is the professional term for when two people who are on camera can't stop laughing even though they want to, and the room becomes very tense and uncomfortable and the crew want you to hurry up and get over with it and get on with it as quickly as possible. We we were we were corpsing over. you were talking about an old sport Horse sport What was it? It was cold It was called something Oh, it was it was oh, it was called Peggy Pgging. horse pegging. I't give h horse pegging And it was a sport. It was an old sport called horse pegging. and you said something to me like, do you want to know what that's about? And I did. But then I laughed for ten minutes to the extent where I felt I hated myself, I wished I was dead and I couldn't I could not stop laughing. We say's not even that funny. We also made one of the the film crew sit in the seat and introduce one of the segments, which was very funny. As an old man. Yeah, and I had to go about that?ike whoo's this old man Cool guy.yway it was guy. justust a guy who was like J up wasn he wasn't even that old Anyway, what we're talking about, we made a lot of ring for analysis videos The primary purpose was to live in a show that the athletic is making for mostly for American viewership so they're all being published on that show, but they also get to be published on the TFO foootball YouTube channel as well. I think actually you might not even publish them on the TFO Sorts channel because they are primarily intended for a US audience. So they're all short explainers about things, even as simple as how the offside rule works, how big the worldorld Cup is, why it's why Americans say soccer and British people so soccer and British people say football. All those topics we cover In twenty five videos. There was a lot, there was a lot to do. So if you want to watch those, you can watch them over the summer and you will do that in order to get your ring for analysis filled because this will be our last ring for analysis episode for the season. We're not doing them during the World Cup because we've got a lot of other stuff going on. We will be back of course at the beginning of the new season But' be it'll be a couple of months. So I hope you enjoy today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to all of them over the past couple of months. And ye once the music finishes playing Yeah Th then you can listen to what we did. That's right, John. Cratulations John I sh begin when you're ready for me. I'm ready Okay, here's the title of this piece now. England twenty twenty six World Cup Watch Who should really feel hard done by over being ignored by Toukeel And just before I, I won't be calling him to Kl all the way through, but it felt as though when I was reading that headline as though I should read it. Wh should hard done by being dod by You know, something very nice about that sound. How would you read it U who should really who should really feel hard done by over being ignored by Tule? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that that was quite that was quite news readery, wasn't it? T I try an Atenbr style Who should really feel outd done by over being ignored by Tuel you know what I've noticed about Attenburough is that sometimes You know you know that would you understand the phrase like the melodic resolution Yeah, yeah, I guess so. sentence. Yeah, right as in decide how you decide to sort of in tone the end. How you resolve the end of your sentence? interrogative way is something people talk about, right? which is with Americanans. America up? Interrogative obviously means like asking a question, right. And so a lot of Americ asking a question? Yeah, yeah, exactly. L they they use that Intonation when they're not asking a question. Whereas what I'm saying is the melodic resolution of the sentence would be if you were speaking in a kind of musical way, is you bring it back down to where you began. You know what I'm saying? Yeah And that's old I kind of went up. I did a little world there. Whas you did come down, you still came back down the g up. But what Attenburgh does sometimes and it's because of his age, He doesn't do on purpose, but because he's in his nineties He finishes sentences at like a half step, where it's not all he's trying to go down, but his voice doesn't let him. So he finishes at this weird half step, where you think, well, that's not melodic at all. If anything, there's dissonance in the musicality of the way that he speaks, but it's un repproducible because he's an old man who's doing it by accident, his voice box is just, you know hundred years old. It's actually a hundred years old But it it creates the most incredible sound. This is a really interesting aspect of of David Atttenborough, right? Because David Attenborough is famous for being a naturalist. Yeah whichich is someone who looks at natureure not a naturist. not a. You may be a naturist. You could be. I have no evidence to support that claim. No U But he's actually, would he exist in the space that he exists in now in the British mayaybe even the wider global consciousness. if he didn't narrate the way that he narrate. No, no, no. He's like he's like the main thing he's famous for is narrator, whichich is crazy, right? Because like that's not what he's supposed to be famous for. Well, I guess that's true, but I would say I think that's actually a misunderstanding of Atenborough because I mean, he was a commissioner, wasn't he for a while. I mean heBC commissioner. D' didnn't he oversee a ch a whole channel for a while? I feel as though. He was the BBC' Commissioner which is guy in charge of everything, right? But we see the Director General t let me have a look. Why think I think we should melodically resolve David Frederick Attemborgh, David Atttenborgh is an English broadcaster, natural historian and writer That's quite good isn't? very good? Yeahah very good. His presenting career began as a host of ZooQuest in nineteen fifty four and has spanned seven decades. There it is. And what were the key? corporate jobs held at the BBC. Attenbber was a senior manager at the BBC working as a controller on BBC two and director of programming for BBC television in the nineteen sixties and seventies. So held senior roles. He's a broadcaster Hes I think I think he's a naturalist as a secondary. I think he's a broadcaster as a form as a primary, and then as a secondary, he's interested in In childhood collectingosils stones and natural specimens, he didn't spend his childhood working for the BBC jer. I spent my childhood shitting in my own pants job. What does that mean? Does that mean that I'm a pooper? It means you're a satologist. Yeah, that's exactly what you are. That's what I think of you as. Anyway, Atenborough, get him on the plane. A on the plane. Aed around eleven he had the zoology department needed a large supply of newts whichich he offered through his father to supply at three D each. Wow. Th three D is always good for new, isn't it?? Absolutely. You know, when a two D new? What is a D? It a pny? It's a penny, right an old penny. but they called it a D. The Oh the British Thpence piece was a denomination of stterling cooinage worth, do you want to guess how much? In today's money. Three pre decimal pence. Th threeree D. How about that? So that'soney is less than a D. No, a D is a P is No, but I'm saying this three D not a three D D. The point I guess the point is that this is one coin. One coin Rather than three singular D coins. I don't know why why was the penny called a D at first? I don't know. findind out. The penny. I don't think we've done enough tangents. We're definitely I'm waiting until all the England fans have stopped listening. you are referring to the pre decimal British currency system The penny was abbreviated with a D EG twelve D. This is the Google AI right Yeah ye. Because it stood for Denarius, a popular silver coin used in the Roman Empire. How about that? Can I is so stupid, isn't it? Can I tell you something though? You should be very skeceptical of AI. Someone sent me I will not be lectured about reading out the AI overview because you do that every time. I'm just saying let me find it Raz in the TFO football Dcord, which incidentally you can join for free by clicking the link in the description of this podcast. Raz put in a screenshot of a question that he asked Google's AI support the other day. and there's an ongoing conversation in there about who I support because apparently I've never said it out loud before The question, what team does Joe Devine support And this is this is The response from Google AI Football journalist and TFO football host, Joe Devine is a supporter of Arsenal Well, he maintains a professional persona on his the athletic column And his ex account. He has North London roots and his family has a long history of supporting the gunners. Now that is incredibly confident waffle nonsense. I'm not an Arsenal fan. Do you know why I think you're an Asenal fan? Why? Because you're seing North London forever, the being of every podcast N Lond. this isver. That might be're listening. The AI's are listening, J. So I don't have North London roots. I have family that live in North London. I am from everywhere I haveve rootes everywhere except North London. And I've got family that live in North London. and I had a family member, Uncle Damian that owned a North London pub North London, whichich was a sort of arsenal pub in a sense because where it was it was an angel, but I'm not from here, he's not from here And I just when you read that, we all know we all know, don't we that we have to be skeptical. But when you read that, You go, o wow, it's so confident and it's completely wrong on It's every single. It's like Steve Hanky talking about alloys. is exxactly the same thing Right, what are we doing? We're doing England twenty twenty six Wld Cub World Cup watchatch. Yes, yes. Now you see the magic of podcasting. this all came from me saying tooukeel. It's true. Now I shall begin, of course. I should also say this was written by Rob Tanner and it was published may twenty seventh. twenty twenty. So by the time you're listening this that's a couple of weeks ag And this is just at the point where a couple of a few days after the squad has been announced, and there are, of course some upset players who are not included. Now I shall begin reading, John The makeup of Thomas Toull's final twenty six M squad for the World Cup this summer certainly created a stir Within minutes of Friday's flamboyant squad reveal, all delivered to the backdrop of the Beatles come together, alternative starting lineups were being posted across social media of the players Tkel chose not to name for the tournament, starting in a couple of weeks in the United States, Canada and Mexico Yes, John. What do you think of choosing Come togetherogether by the Beatles as the backdrop for a flamboyant squad reveal? I quite liked it. I liked that video. I hadn't seen it. Have you not seen it? It's worth watching. To be honest, the main thing I thought when I watched it is like, o God bless the editor who had to make several additional scenes that were cut very quickly in order for this to be released because there's no way they would have given the you know, the video editors, the social media editors, the squad before the players had them So that's someone who's filmed and edited and conceived of several other creative scenarios to then immediately cut them from the video and for no one to ever see them. That's the kind of creative work I just can't get behind. I can't do it. It's a real insight into the way your brain works. right you see something like that and you're immediately thinking, H, what would I have done in this situation? You know what that's like for me? That's like leaving your house to go on a walk walking and then once you're as far away as you want, immediately retracing all of your step instead of just going in a circle, walking a different way back from the shop. I can't go back on myself, J. I have that problem. You know I have a thing in supermarkets where I have to walk down certain aisles in the same direction. Yeah. I have I don't know why. I mean, I do know why. But there's it's because I'm used to going through the supermarket, my local supermarket in the same room Which means you my breath in your head, you're muttering sausages your sausages and beans and beans and beans. But it means that there's certain situations where this is I can't believe I'ming this public forum. It means that I don't go down all of the aisles, but if I go down one aisle and then I have to go down another aisle but it's the wrong direction. I then have to go to the next aisle, walk down it and then come back up the other direction, even if I don't need anything from the following aisle. Um Yeah, and I don't know why Id do that, but Is that funny? Yeah, man, that's like just you keep saying you don't know why you do that L I don't know why I do it, but I have to do it. I know why you do it. Okay, here we go, here we go, go Some of those admitted could certainly make a case for feeling hard done by. It was a difficult selection to get it down to twenty six names, and Tul certainly had more attractive options than previous England managers and head coaches, but not everyone left out could feel too harshly treated Yes Joh Yeah, because Yeah again, I was gonna try and let you talk about the supermarket again? No., The supermarket's done. I will regret that in the future, but not now But yeah, it's worth saying and JJ and I have just done a Um a video looking at the squad buildup of England Thomas Tule in prereparation for this moment has spent so many times telling people I'm not trying to get the best twenty six players. I'm trying to build you know a team that can win a tournament. And I think it's worth keeping that in mind, right? Because I think so much of the discourse about the England squad, we'll start off by saying something along the lines of Thomas Toukel isn't trying to get the best twenty six players. but then when're then when you're analyzing it, it ends up very quickly becoming, you know, player. why are they not in the team? it's like Well what you're doing there is you're saying if we rate all of the players, this player should be in the top twenty six, therefore we should include them. And I think's been very open about saying that's not how's. I think. And so I think what we should be judging Thomas Tul on is whether or not the players he has selected Yeah Actually form a team that's good enough to I just disagree, John. I think the thing that we should be judging Thomas Tle on is his nationality and how he's a spy. That's happen here to fuck England anyyway G how you feel. Yeah, that's how I really feel. You know, this tournament hasn't even started yet, but as soon as I pull that shirt on Where was I? Oh, yes, of course Harry Mcuire made his disappointment very clear The center half, who's played for England sixty six times over the past nine years, had enjoyed a return to form in the latter part of this season at Manchester United after Michael Carrick replaced Rubt Amarim as head coach in January, and he said he was quote shocked and gutted at his aission. His mother, Zoe, went as far as to state that she was quote disgusted by the decision on social media Yes, John. Sixty six times, he's appeared That is for England. That's the most patriotic number of appearances for England, isn't it? sixty six. Yeah, sixty six is when they won the World Cup. So he shouldn't take play He shouldn't want to play anymore. Yeah, that's my argument. No, I agree Now picking up Several pundits have agreed that Maguire should have made the final squad, but was the choice not to take him such a shock? MagGuire was out injured when Toul started in the England job in January last year. He was then not included in any squad until March, which was the final get togetherher before the W Cup group had to be named when an expanded party of thirty five was announced He's played one full ninety minutes for Tual and added only two caps to his total, both in that March international window since september twenty twenty four. I mean I know you're ringing your bell there, John, but I do want to say when you put it that way It seems pretty clear. Yeah, I was going to put it back to you and say, you know, you you're a guy who likes England. how do you feel of? And you, you know Manchester Un have had a good season as well. Yeah How do you feel about why not being included. I feel a little All trepaditious about it, simply because He's got a big head He uses it. and I do actually think that he's a goal threat. So I'm not worried about it from a defensive perspective. I think I fully support the notion of trying to build the team. and I think one of the most impressive things that Gareth Southgate did was the work related to the culture and the team and that sort of sense of togetherness. So I think I would trust an elite football manager who's been around these players significantly more than I have to pick the right group, but I do worry that taking MagGuire out means that at a World Cup where I fear that set pieces might be quite important You lose a massive head and a guy who's actually quite experienced at scoring goals in those circumstances. maybe a little unusually, my worry about him being left out is is an attacking one, not a defensive one. Yeah. I guess as well like one of the hazards of taking this approach is that it gives people lots of ammunition if things don't work out for them to just say whatever they want about why it didn't work right Of course. It why it wasn't that? Yeah,, exactly. as soon as a game goes wrong, they'll be like, well, There was no MagGuire, so what do you expect? Which it's got to make you a respect tookle a little bit more as well because it's a risky thing and he knows that's will happen if it goes wrong. Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. is it I don't know, I feel like and we're obviously exposed to the English media. so it will obviously feel more tightened for us, but does every country go through that phase that we go through where it's like The squads announced and they're like oh, here's a list of players you haven't made it. therefore everything is doom and gloom. I think the countries that have enough good players for it to be relevant. Yeah. I expect that like most of the countries attending the World Cup. You're saying the Caco media was not Yeah was not too h That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that most of the squads, the reality is that like they don't have enough excellent players to fill the squad. And then the players that you're joining them aread you know squad players, so called are joining from maybe leagues that are a little bit less competitive Um, but I would imagine that like you know interteracting as I have upon occasion with Spanish the Spanish sports press, I can't imagine that they haven't had a similar u, you know selection crisis previously where U I think it's natural something that everyone in the country has an opinion about. Of course, they're going to argue about Yeah It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can L this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. 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Find out more at nYtimes dot com slash your world Okay, picking up Tul has made it abundantly clear, this is what you were saying before, that he's looking to build a club squad mentality within his group, where the team's needs override the ego of any individual He's been looking at his players on and off the pitch during every camp over the past seventeen months, examining personality as well as ability, and aside from those recent friendlies with Uruguay and Japan, Maguire has simply not been part of that process Yes John. It's wor saying as well, I did a lot of watching of the recent England games just to prep for the video that we did And it was very clear that the Uruguay and Japan games were experimental squads to see if he felt as though his selections weren't the correct ones. So the fact that Mcuire played in those suggests that he was already in doubt for contention. Yeah, which would make big sense, right? Yeah His form in the second half of the season did earn applaudice, and despite the disappointment of Friday's announcement, his display in the United's final game of it, a comprehensive three nil win at Brighton and Hove Albion, certainly strengthened his case, but Toul's decision had long since been made While encouraging club form appears to have gone ignored in his case, it does have to play some part in the selection process elsewhere. Yes John. Do you think? Maguire has had a good season. I don't know. He's had a good second half of the season, yeah By which I mean there's been a notable absence of errors. And I think, you know, something that's come to define his career at M Manchester United has has been notable areas. I would say yeah, he's been he's been a pretty near constant in the team. Michael Carrick picked him for almost every game He's been solid and secure as far as I've seen. Yeah, it'd be interesting to hear like what Touul thought was the differences between the way that he uses centerbacks and and Michael Carrick's been using him as well because I guess the big question with With McGuire for me has always been transition defending, right? where Yeah where, you know, he doesn't really have the ability to turn and run backwards. And sometimes when he gets isolated against opponents they can go round him. And I think, you know, in in a World Cup where You've got a team in England who will very comfortably get through a number of games. and the real question is how well do they perform in the games where one it's later in the in the tournament, but two, you're against incredible, incredible attacking players. Yeah. I think it's justified to be like is there value in actually bringing McGuire when If those games open out, it could be the difference between you getting caught in transition as well.. I wonder if it's not tactical though. I also wonder McGuire is he's a senior player. As you said, he's had sixty six caps for England. He was Manchester United captain until that was taken away a couple of years ago And I would imagine that there is more of a difference between McGuire being in the dressing room and MagGuire not being in the dressing room than there is for a player more juniorative in status. So if he wasn't You know, a dead cirert to start games Maybe you don't want him there. Maybe he draws Yeah You know maybe his aura draws the dressing room towards him in a way that Tule didn't want. Yeah, and I've heard a lot of cynical people suggesting that actually the way that he behaved after hearing that he wasn't in the squad was indicative of why he wouldn't have been chosen because again, it it sort of seemed to be I guess against that idea of a team ethos, right although personally, I think it's fine for them to like express public disappointment that they're not ps. Yeah, I guess the thing was with it was that it was before the announcements had even been made, right? It was But he'd been told. Yeah, he'd been told that the the squad announcement hadn't He didn't respect the embargo yeah, who cares really? I don't know. I I think it's like, you know, if you it's his last World Cup, really, it would have been his last World Cup He's not going. He's disappointed Yeah. He tweets about it But again, I do still think that like as you're saying, like that's what you're talking about, right? this he's the sort of personality who will be comfortable going into the public space and saying, I'm disappointed about this. Yeah. And I guess that's that kind of it could be That kind of leadership, as you say, could be a negative if he's not being used as a primary player in the squad, it could detract from from the other players a little bit, I guess. We just don't know. We don't but we will speculate. Cole Palmer and Phil Fodden have both been hailed as the future of the England National team at times The two attacking midfielders have been sensational too for Chelsea and Manchester City, respectively in previous seasons, but most importantly, not during this one In the context of their fitful performance levels over the course of twenty twenty five twenty six, Neither could feel too aggrieved to have missed out Yes, John. Yeah, do we we agree with this, right? That seems fairly clear to me. I suppose the only you guess so. The only pushback you can maybe have is, oh, well the teams that they've been in. I mean, obviously with Foden, that's not the case, right? Man City have not had a good couple of seasons by really, right by their standards Um and Chelsea have obviously been a bit of a basket case in the same same time period. Yeah. I guess there will be people out there who think Oh if you put them in a different context where suddenly there's, you know, the expectations are that this team will do quite well, then maybe they would flourish a little bit more. U But I don't know. I just I just sort of feel as though people getting annoyed about Cole Palmer and Pil Foden not being included are just often I think that's motivated by like fan loyalty and being like, oh I guess so he's one of our own lives he not being taken. I think the question also is that you can only have this conversation if you look at who is included. Yeah. And so in the positions, you tell me if you think there are additional players that I'm not mentioning. but in these wide forward positions, maybe number ten position in their case. I think they would both be used as number ten s actually. I think number ten. Yeah I think so. I think when we those players, then it's pretty clear why they've not been chosen. In which case then we're really talking about Eza Mor Ening Rogers And I mean, Harry Bellingham and Bellingham and Harry Kane of course, also Harry plays plays deeper than Yeah. So Harry Can will plays the nine, he'll drop in and as a result of that, you need to have players who are able to hit the box behind him. That is players like Morgan Rogers Yeah. That is players like Jude Bellingham And I guess E as well like will be able to be used in that way. And I think you wouldn't have picked Cole Palmer ahead of any of those. I can understand from a tactical point of view why Tule would have preferred those sort of in behind players rather than rather than more technical. I like it for penalties though I like him for penalties. Which one Palmer? Palmer? Yeah. Yeah, I mean and again, you know I think it's funny, right? because at this level, I think all of these players they're just good enough to take Yeah to take penalties. and I don't think penalty I mean, I guess as long as you feel as though you're going to have five decent penalty takers in your squad, you shouldn't worry about it too much beyond that I guess. I think The psychological element becomes way more important, right? Yeah. And you know, there was the twenty twenty one euros where where England missed some penalties and it was, you know, the players that you'd expected not to it was Paka Sako and Marcus Rashford and Jaden Sanch. Jaden Sancho. Yeah. And yeah, I think obviously They were young players at the time and were very unfairly vilified for that. But I think England just have so many players now that have so much experience of having to take pressure penalties that I just I don't think that would be too much of an issue there. One of those omitted who could present a serious case as to why he should have been included, citing his constituency and match winning capabilities. Not his constituency, John, J just to be clear. I'm citing my ward He was citing his consistency and match winning capabilities in Nottingham south I don't know something like that. There's the teaser. It was Nottingham Forest's Morgan Gibbs White. Now unlike Palmer and Foden, Gibbs White has just had the season of his life. He scored eighteen goals and provided seven assists in fifty three appearances across all competitions including another stunning strike on the final day this season against Bournemouth He's shown such form in a forestide who struggled hugely in the Premier League throughout the campaign and has excelled under four different managers in the space of ten months. No mean feat in itself. It could be argued that Gibbs White's record is more worthy of inclusion than that of Arsenal's Nonni Maduueke. eight goals, four assists from forty two appearances across all competitions, but whenever he's been available, Toual has selected Madu Shall I pause here to we talk about Morgan Gibbs White Yeah a little bit? I mean, he didn't really play in the same position as No, I don't like it is? I don't think so. I think The issue that that the Tle has here is that Englands a lot of England's sort of supposed mercurial talent is in the same position, right? Right. So we've already talked ye, we've already talked about phon and Palmer. Yes, you can use you can use these players in wide areas, but you're not using them in the way that that Tuckle wants to use wings, right? Yeah And Tuckle is going to be trying to do possession control. He is going to be playing, I would say relatively risk averse football. I mean, the correlate is arsenal, right? whichich is potentially why Nonny Madake is being included. And it' wor saying as well, Nonny Madoeke was at Chelsea when Thomas Tule was there, which explains I guess why he likes him. Yeah Um but Yeah, with with Gibbs White, I think it's just it's just a case of Maybe he's just peaked at the wrong time and, you know,' a it's a very big call to make, right to He could have gone instead of Ezay may, couldn't Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, he could have gone I guess as as offers like the diversity from those other two tenens' less of the run in behind more of the creative playmaker, right? So like if Harry Kane was injured in the first game when they played a different striker, then maybe that makes sense to have someone a bit further back. but he scored eighteen goals this season before course. I mean it is's very unfortunate. He had an incredible didid he was that mentioned? It like his incredible goal scoring form in this this season alone. I think he, you know he he in sorry in twenty twenty six alone. So I think he was the I think he was the top scorer after january the first or something. He' not fire right? So he's definitely a form player. Yeah. Yeah And I guess I guess the question then is like to what extent does form carry over into the international game? likeike I personally would probably have included Gibbs White ahead of As a bit like sure there's so many more contributing factors to why Ter will have chosen him on top of that but. It's clear, I think when you look at the squad complexion overall that he's picked players from Manchester City and from from Arsenal And Arsenal have just won the league Yeah. And I feel like, you know that's good motivational suion to. Yeah. I think that momentum worth talking about of course. And I think with again, with Gibbswite, he just feels so unlucky that he's had a very good season. Yeah for a team that have been in a relegation battle the whole time and for it to not translate into into something like that. He'd be the star player in most teams at the World Cup. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. And maybe it just comes down to the fact that T will be thinking, okay, we're not going to be playing Gibes white that regularly. So it's a question of like how do they deal with being a bench player And maybe maybe the decision between E and Gibbs white is is about that aspect rather than the performance aspect I guess certain. But then I could just imagine a world as I know you can also where Morgan Gibbs white goes, gets subed on in the first game, scores a goal, plays the oth is the top scorer for the tournament it could totally totally happen, right? Yeah. comoming back to Madee though, I feel was there not other options that could have gone on the right wing instead of Manduke, there must have been Let's have a look Indeed, he has started the twenty four year old that's Maduke in four of the five games where he's been fit for selection. The only game he played in but did not start in was the Senegal friendriendly this time last year, which saw England suffer a first defeat under the Germans. Jared Bowen is who I'm thinking. Jared Bowen is who you're thinking of. the potential. Although this makes it sound as though Jared Boen never really had a chance of at least ousting Nonni Madu from the team. Yeah, and yeah, and I think that's probably true. But yeah, I suppose that That just means that Tkle made his mind up very early on Madue. Maybe. And that sounds like it could be a tactical one potentially I don't know. A, again, maybe you know, Bowen has been playing in a relegation for a relegation team well, they got relegated in the end, right? and I guess he's maybe a little bit older, so maybe that comes into it, but maybe. againgain, I think he can feel a little bit hard done by it to to not go, but like it was mentioned? Did he not get mentioned I don't know. I haven't read this piece. Wow. He's not even been mentioned by He's not even mentioned by the piece. He's been snubbed from the team and the piece. Wow. inccredible. Jared. How about that It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can L this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover dot com slash credit card. Today, we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing A soopFi persononal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt withith a soFI personersal loan. Visit soOFi dot com slash stuck to learn more. Loans originated by SopFi Bank andA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apppply NL six nine six eight nine one Okay, picking up here. Interestingly, nine of the squad selected for the World Cup qualifier against Andora and that friendly last June, Trent Alexander Arnold, Trevor Chalibur, Levi Colwell, Mles Lewis Skey, Karl Walker, who's now retired from international football, Curtis Jones, Connie Gallagh, Palmer and Gibbs White have not made the World Cup twenty six And yet the attacking options picked in that group have all been retained despite numerous changes past ye Yeah, another name in there I think is probably ' quite important in the wite scheme of things Aliani. Yeah. Trent Alexander A. Anyone would call them Aliani. 'ause that's a great nickname. Alian. Aliani, is anything Aliani? That's great nickname. Yeah. It's like Trent Aliani. Oh, I love it. It really rolls off the tongue. His name is too long. I can confirm. agree. Having to do short form content when you have to do a video about Trent Alexander Arnold, that's about half your video just taken up saying his name. Particularly like when you're you and you say the name over and over again. What do you want to say about him Yeahah, I mean, I guess this was another sort of touch point non sign not signing was it selection that people were We're talking about I think is the most significant one because he's O of the best playmakers that England has He plays for Real Madrid and He's really good at football. And even just as like a rotational option, even if you're not starting him, he's so adaptable. He could play in three different positions, I think. And at a tournament again where I feel as those set pieces are going to be potentially a huge part part of the game, he has incredible deadball delivery. Yeah and I agree with you. So I was thinking about the fact that there's no, I think I'm right in saying there's no Spain. There's no realal Madrid plays in the Spain squad. That's true yeah And I wonder like I was just wondering how many Real Madrid players are actually going to the World Cup. Maybe not that many. Not that many maybe not that many at all. That's trying of interest many will be going and Bappp' is going obviously Yeah yeah. yeah. But then none of the Spanish players going. And then I guess Valdi will go with Uruguay. Sure. I'm just trying to think off the top of my head Maybe the coaches all got together and decided not this year Yeah, Yeahah. but I think this is an interesting topic because you would I mean, we always talk about them as the as the Galacticos team, right where you would think this is just the whole team you would expect to go. and ye the fact that there's nopain Spain players in there is kind of interesting for me. But yeah, to get back to Alexandra Arnolds yeah, maybe maybe the performance of his domestic team hasn't exactly helped And the question is always going to be with Alexander Arnold, to what extent does the the out of possession aspect actually end up impacting the in the imp possession, the sort of outweighing the imp posossession aspects and Yeah, I think with Tkle We're just not going to see the kind of football where where using Alexander Arnold is maybe going to in possession is going to be maximized And so as he'll see it you're including a fullback here you probably don't want to do a huge amount of defending. So maybe the opportunity costs don't work out. but yeah, I think it's crazy, right? because I think most Most coaches attitude to this will be This guy is a unicorn.. He's like one of the best ball strikers in world football, one of the greatest playmakers in a back line that we've ever seen you've got to find a way of making that guy work and, you know, maybe the history of history of Liverpool foootball cllub in across the last five years was sort of answering that question, right? It was cllock trying to find ways of bringing him in. We saw Liverpool drop off Vitigenously after after he left the club. So it's one of those ones where and I suppose Clop knew the game. he knew what was required. Yeah. And you know, I mean Tule and Klop are very different coaches right? likeike Cop is Clop is all about like tempo shift and getting you know, playing the ball into dangerous scenarios and knowing that you're going to be able to counterpress if you lose it in a dangerous situation. Yeah. Tookle is the opposite of that, right? Tk a will try and his team will play slow. It will be arsenal stuff. It' be possession control. there'll be lots of wide buildup. I don't think you really get the value from Alexander Arnold that you don't get. So even like setP stuff When you've got Declan Rice, you've got Bakaya Saka, you've basically got both sides of Arsenals' set piece routines takers.. You don't really need to worry about that. And then the question is how are you getting Alexander Arnold into these kinds of areas where you can get upside? And I you know yeah, breaking down a low block if you've got Kane in the box and Alexander Arnold getting him into the half space sure, but I'm guessing that that Tuckle's idea here is just it just doesn't weigh up the downsides defensively. Having said that though, I can also imagine a scenario where Thomas Toules, England fail miserably at the World Cup. Yeah where he leaves the role and they bring in the next manager and the next manager's time, the first thing he does is bring Alexander Arnold back into the team and Thomas Tuch's time becomes defined as who was the guy that dropped Alexander Arnolds, you know that was one of the decisions that he made that led to X YZ. Now that doesn't mean that those two things I don't want to be I don't want to results myas myself. but I will be saying that if it happens. Yeah, of course. And if you' whether or not it's true. If you're the next Eingnglland manager, the best thing to do would to just be reinstate all of the people that Tkle didn't bring and then just if it doesn't work out, you can just be like, well, we just went with fan opinion. like fact the fans were saying all of these players would have won the World Cup therefore That's true I'd love to lead a team by a fan opinion Okay, where was I? One of those now one of those attacking players that was retained from that game a year ago One of those is Ivan Tony, whose inclusion caught many by surprise. Indeed, it felt as if it came completely out of left field Tony has been completely out of the picture since that disastrous camp last summer when Tul was left disappointed by the attitudes of some players, as Senegal ran out three one winers at at Nottingham City's ground At Nottingham's City ground. At Nottingham' City ground. Thank you, John He's gone on record, saying he needed clear the air talks with Tony before he brought him back into the fold But the former Brentford Striker's case is unique There's no doubting his prowess in front of goal. The Saudi Pro League has its detractors, but Tony still scored forty two goals in forty nine games this season for Alati across all competitions, an impressive tally Touol has also suggested that the England's Tismanic captain and striker Harry Kane likes Tony around to take the attention away from him, and the thirty year old will have a very specialist role at the World Cup. He'll be asked to make an impact from the bench if and when England are chasing a game and to be ready for potential penalty shootouts, assuming that they reach the knockout phase Yiss him. Yeah, do what do we make of? It's sort of interesting one, right? Because I think with Tony he's been a bit like out of sight out of mind for a lot ofs So I'm not going to make any comments about his his performances this season. It is kind of interesting in the sense that yeah, okay, forty two goals in forty nine games Luckley is obviously a good rate of return. He'll be incredibly confident. Yeah off the back of that. Sure. And he would have been incredibly confident before that. I'm sure. Yeah, which is why he's the great player that he is. But yeah, I guess this is just like a specialist position that they're just saying let's just get the guy It's a wild card, also, right? Yeah. I don't I don't think you'll see him in the first two I mean, in the group stages. No, by all accounts. This tournament is going to be more boring because there are very few teams eliminated for the number of games in the group stages, right? Yeah. So I think and England actually have I think a trickyh group in the sense that Croish are one of the teams they're facing. Who are the other two in England's group? And then Ghana, of course, a tricky team, Panama should be an easier game Butanama he might play in that game to be fair because that will be the game. Olly Watkins will play that game Yeah yeah Ollie Watkins will play that game and then Harry Kane might come on to keep warm, keep keep fohing. I't think I don't think Avntoni willll play that game. I don't think Avventonio will play at all in the group stage. What's the ordering of the games? because that matters. I think Croatia' first. I think Ghana's second Panama So Panama is just going to be like the backup Panama is the second eleven, I would have thought. The reason being because even if England are in second place, they are extremely unlikely to be one of the not eight best third placed teams to progress. Obviously they want to win as well they can in order to get a more favorraable draw in the round of thirty two. but I think it's unlikely that we would see Ivant Tony , posossibly at all in the tournament, but even if we do, I think we won't see him until the knockout stages at which point you put him on at eighty minutes when you really need a wild card. Yeah, and I think one of the things about the format that people haven't really talked about, I was looking at the US men's national team other day because I was on the athletic FC podcast and they asked me out the blue about what I thought about their chances of going deep in the tournament And what's really interesting is that if you come This is not true for all teams coming first in their group, but for a lot of the teams who are coming first in their group, they will be playing against one of the three best placed third teams the eight best placed third teams. Yeah. so but only four third place teams are That's right they eliminated. So for the US, there's four groups where the third best placeed team could potentially end up going through to that game. Yes. So and then you're talking like the third best group in these in these groups and so you look through them and it'll be like Belgium and then like three lesser teams and you're like, okay, so there's a possibility could be any of these three And then you end up looking at there's about there's probably like eight or nine teams you could feasibly play against if you win your group. Whereas if you come second, the US they they're sorry the yeah, if the US comes second they they're almost certainly playing the second, they're playing the second from another group which you can kind of work out what it will be Yeah. And then if you're the other way around and they are the third place in that group, the US, then they're definitely playing the best team in the Portugals group, which is going to be Portugal, right? So it's weird that like the higher the higher up you go, the less clarity you have about what you're going to be facing.ure. So there's some there's definitely some groups where You can make you can maybe even make the argument that it's worth trying to finish second because you'll have much more clarity about like what your task is going to be. I'm calling it now It's bad. I think it's bad I think we should reduce the to the amount number I'm torn on it simply because I'm delighted for fans and players of the teams that have qualified in that between thirty two and forty eight, right? that extra is that how many it is? That extra sixteen teams? Yeah sixteen. Yeah's it's jumped to forty eight, right? Yeah. I mean, the thing is once you finish the group stages at this summer's tournament, you are left with thirty two teams, which is the normal number of teams you have. Yeah. so there's what? this's like this o so there's six games in each group. so and there's twelve groups. So its six twelves. So it's seventy two seventy two games seventy two games to eliminate twelve teams And there's far fewer games then to break that down to a final Yeah, final Yes F, far fewer. Yeah. So the vast majority of the tournament will be Anyway, as I said, I'm very happy for the fans and the players of teams that otherwise wouldn't have qualified. And I think that's great But I think it will make I think I think it's also okay to say it will make the tournament more boring. I think what's going to happen is And the stakes are just not there. Yeah. I think st stakes don't exist I think what's going to happen is that This tournament will get away with it because so many of the games are so late at night in Europe that no one will care. Yeah. And then it willll come back across this this time zone. And the next World Cup, people will be like, oh There'll be four games a day. And people were like, what on eararth is? like, who's this for? Yeah? And Yeahah and then those questions will be raised. Agree Okay, soall I carry on? Yeah, let's keep going. The inclusion of Ollie Watkins proves a late burst of good form can drive you back into Touical's thinking. Unl Morgan gives w. Unless' Morgan gives w. The Aston Villa Striker wasn't included in that squad in March, but his flurry of goals over the past three months, thirteen in sixteen games as Villa won the Eura League and finished fourth in the Premier League, put him back into the reckoning Yes,. This is interesting because I do think that Theres so many arrguments to be made that like good form has got people into toickle squad, right? we just said Ivan Tony is there because he's scored forty two and forty nine, whatever it was Um And yeah now Olly Watkins who you know, I have villa friend found friends who were moaning at me every week about how poor his finishing was.ight. And then you have someone like Morgan Gibbs White, but apparently finishing in his situation like doesn't doesn't count this is why you maybe wonder like if it's more about the squad balance or the personalities involved or the whatever. because when you try to answer these questions either from a tactical perspective or just a pure form perspective, it doesn't really make any sense. And you know, like there's no correct answer, right? That's which is why people love squad narrative because. Everyone has an opinion and people, you know, you can say this player should there there's no and it's not even the case that, you know, you can just say, well, the best twenty six players are this because it's not that simple, right? You've got to pick three goalkeepers for a start and also what people determine to be the better player is always up for grabs. So And I think that's why we get so much out of it. So I think you The difficulty will be that Thomas Tule himself will have had loads of conversation with his staff where they're probably divided on this question as well, right And you' got you've got to pick twenty six plers.'s a concrete l then you have to stand behind it. Yeah. I mean I'm going to carry on as well because in the next paragraph, we hear about three other strikers that dis this out So However, Tule has not been looking just at for Watkins likely got the nod ahead of Danny Wellelbeck, Dominic Calvt Lewin, and Dominic Salanki because he offers something different to those other options up front, an ability to run in behind defenses rather than purely being the modern target man number nine which makes me think he's a bit of the Jamie Vardi of this tournament Yeah, I mean, he played in the last international tournament as well. score wonderful Yeah. scored an important goal in that as well. So that you know, I don't think that it's controversial to take Watkins, but I think all of the really controversial decisions are all peripheral decisions, right? whichich is why they end up being controversial. There's not there's not I don't think there's any danger of like Cole Palmer and Pil Foden being starters in this World Cup. It's just like, oh, wouldn't it be nice to have them off the bench etcetera And that's was the way that it ends up going into, you know, I think off the basis of that You can argue that this is probably a fairly good squad because all of the arguments have been around sort of peripheral positions rather than like no one's no if you look at the start taking Harry Ce Yeah I guess the I'm just trying to think like what will the most What will the most controversial decision be from a starting eleven position? And it probably could be something like playing U Jude Bellingham instead of playing Morgan Rogers instead of Jude Bellingham or something like that Yeah. Yeah And yeah, well Anthony Gordon instead of Rashville or something again peripheral. Yeah. ye, ye, to be honest. Yeah. So yeah, I think that most of the decisions probably are like that. maybe I't try to think of the most controversial for me. hasasn't been mentioned. It's probably someone like Adam Wharton. who Um againgain, I think you can make the argument that he offers Again, the problem is that Adam Mals is a fantastic player, but he probably doesn't really do what Well took a once from a midfielder, right? R? This As I said it before, I feel like this England team is going to be very arsenal coded because Tole and Artetta are both very sort of risk averse possession control managers. You went very leads there for a second. I've said it before. I' didnn't say said I said it before and I'm going to say it again Possession control