Transforming Culture and Final Reflections

Rominia Mal steps into McDonald's looks left sees Pisic, looks right se Samenez, Gives a nod to Ronald Dino in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal Ronald Dinio sees Sun in the booth, Sun finds Beckham going for extra big Mac saws. He's got Davy's at the table just behind him. Davy's going for his collectible cup.! A steal byon. Who pulls his own collectible cup? Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA Wor Cup meal. P participating McDal's for a limited time. whilew suppies last All R right reserve twenty six McDonalds FFA Worldup twenty six This episode of the TFo Football podcast is sponsored by Boss, businesswar provider for the US men's n National soccer team Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply won, it's earned. Boss understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest. cononstant refinement, precision in every stitch. And as the US men's national team steps into the spotlight on home soil, Boss is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forwards with confidence Express their individuality, and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring from Boss performance. And soccer fans, Boss has you covered too, whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in boss performance, or show your pride from the stands, in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors and badges. Own the moment with confidence discover the boss performance collection as worn by the US men's national soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own boss at boss. com or at your nearest boss store Meters, no matter what pitch you play on, a big win feels the same. Electric It's that moment when you read the play before the trend even starts. Beat the clock on a campaign with a little help from AI And connect with customers in real time, like you've trained for it your whole career. That's contentful. Wld class digital experiences, built fast, built beautifully. Create and launch personalised content in an instant across every channel your customers for watching No chaos, no limits, just open themes Take your shot at contentful d. comot Welcome to the TFO Football podcast. I'm Joe Devi. I'm Mickol Lretta, and I am a Premier League winner. I'm joined by John Mackenzie. Hello Joe. How's it again? Good thanks. Now we are talking about something very special today, aren't we? It's part one of a two Parter and I hear you saying anotherother two Parter. Is it about John Terry? No, it's not. It's not about Jhn Terry. Don't worry. It's about James McNicholas. that's not about him. It's written by James McNicholas. It's about Arsenal's Premier League title the first in twenty two year. The headline is as follows, John Toxic to Title inside Arsenal's first Premier League for twenty two years and how they nailed their win window. Here's how it works. I'm going to read the article that I've just read the headline of, and John, you're going to ring a little bell that sounds like this When you want me to pause, offer some analysis, N not my analysis. You want metopuse so you can offer some analysis. It's called ring for analysis, isn't it? The format I ring and I do the analysis. Right, yeah. I mean, sometimes I do the analysis That's tr. occasionally occasionally. I don't have a ring I mean I could ring if I wanted to do. We did suggest you having a trumpet. I need to get a trumpet blow your own trumpet. I would love to blow my own trumpet. Anyway, what are we talking about on today's episode? What sort of things come up in this article? Yeah, this is a fun story because it's all about the process by which Arsenal have arrived at the Premier League titles. So it's nice looking back over that period and six years in the making. And I think James has done a really good job of boiling it down to the constituent parts. Yeah. But we do talk about other things along the way. We had a bit of a discussion about Jane Eyre andes Wide SargassoC by Jean Reese. What it's like to have a sort of a scary wife haunting around the house? Yeah, exactly I don't know what that's like after. I don't know John. I don't know either. I don't know either, Joh. Don't you dump that on me. We also talked about religion and sport. Oh yes, we did. We talked about narratives and how ye how complex they can be We talked about passion Anna standards. Anna standards and chocolate ice cream. Oh yeah. And I gave you a quiz which you didn't do very well on because I confused you. That's right. You conf And I think listeners will understand when we get there. I was very confused at that point. Yeah I think this is a really fun one. And actually it's worth saying but you know this is described as a title six years in the making A lot of the themes of this episode are about narratives, how they're drawn retroactively, retrospectively, how you look back and you can see causality. We have conversations about that sort of thing as well, which I hope Arsenal funds will find interesting Okay, well after this little bit of music, I shall begin reading I shall begin when you're ready for me, John. I'm ready. Okay, here we go. Now as a reminder, the headline for this piece Txic to typhle and toxic is in inverted comments there. so I guess quotation marks almost. someone has suggested once that they were toxic, yeah Txic to title C long Inside Arsenals's first Premier League for twenty two years and how they nailed their win window Very exciting. And this was of course written by James Mc Nicholas and published on may nineteenth twenty twenty six. Udated may twentieth twenty twenty six. I wonder what they changed I don't know. Okay All right here we go twentywenty two years in the waiting Six years in the making. The Premier League title is Arsenals Ag. The first team squad gathered at their London Colney training ground on Tuesday to watch Bournemouth's draw with Manchester City handing the North London Club their long awaited fourteenth domestic championship The story of Arsenal's twenty five hundred twenty six triumph is relatively unusual in modern football Yes, it has some of the classic components, an exceptional team, a coaching guru, and the obligatory enormous expenditure on transfers but it's distinct because it's a tale of persistence and continuity. This title is the result of a true long term plan crafted with unusual patience and forensic detail After three straight years finishing as runners up, Arsenal have forced their way over the line this time. two decades on from being invincible Arsenal have become Undeniable Yes Joh by that that's the end of the intro, by the way. Following this is a Dinkus. Good. And I held back. I know you like to get into the meat of the story before I start jumping in. Thank you, yes. held back. So jump in. But yeah, obviously an incredible story for Arsenal, well deserved victory in the Premier League deserve title winners But there's a few things that I'm kind of interested in here from a narrative perspective, Mainly because I'm reading a novel at the moment called Wide Sargasso, which is a novel by What was it called? Wide Sargasso? Sargasso. Sargasso The Sargassoe is a part of the Sa It's a part of the sea N the sea. It's a sea within the sea. Right whereere I don't know, Steve Hanky was talking about how eels go there to die or something like that I don't really know much about what the actual sea itself is. The Saggasso Sea is a unique region in the North Atlantic ocean defined by four bounding Deined by bounding ocean currents rather than land masses.ound It's famous for its calm, deep blue waters and thick floating mats of gold sargassum seaweed.. It serves as a critical spawning and nursery habitat for endangered eels, sea turtles, and numerous migratory species. Yeah nice. And the reason why that imagery is used in the title will become It's the only landless sea, John Oh right. I didn't know that. That's interesting. It's cool, isn't? So, go on. Yeah. So the wide sideag as you see the novel is a novel by a woman called Jean Reese, who takes the story of Jane Ayre, which do you know the story of Janeyre then? Yes, but you might want to tell it Yeah so cool. Jane Eyre is basically a sort of romantic Aussy It's a love story not just. She's not a hussy. It's quite funny to describe Jane Eyre as a hussy. She basically ends up falling in love with this guy, is gonna marry him and it turns out on their wedding day, it transpires he has a wife. Yes. And this wife is called Bertha Mason and is kept locked in the attic of E Rochester's Can I just say that it turned out on my wedding day that I had a wife as well? but it was the one that was marrying there wasn't any controversy Yes Um She's in the attic though She's in the attic, yeah. and and obviously the way that it's narrated in that story is that Oh, it's a crazy mad woman I married when I was out in the whatever they called them back then, East Indies or West Indies or what they called it No, not the East Indies, theest Indies. There There are some ghostly retellings of Jane Ey. It's quite scary how she sort of stalks around the house. Yeah, It's's a good example of gothic narrative telling But obviously in the novels, it's just kind of she's almost portrayed as like in the wide Sogasso seena. No in Jailla. She You know, she's a bad mad woman.ah, blah, blah. And Jean Rees in this novel retells the story from her perspective and gives more of the context in the background of Bertha Mason. Understood. And obviously that image of the sea, which has all of these seaweed beds, where all of the seaweed is interconnected and it's just a mass, as you said, of these seaweeds That's a really nice imagery for how narratives work, right? There's never a simple one narrative through line. Right In any situation. There's always another way of looking at what's happened and you tell the story. So this novel's not about the Sargassancy. I've not finished it yet. so I don't know, N none of it. Maybe it appears like later on. hope so ll we'll see how that transpires. But I thought that was that then gets me thinking about the way that we tell narratives, right? because you know there's always a temptation to sort of start at the end of a story and say, well, all of the narrative threads converged to this perfect retelling of That makes a good story. It does. And you know, as humans we love Nice neat narrives. But there's a few things I'm maybe going to push back on as we go. Okay. justust from some of the narrative retellings. What you're saying is you're going to complexify the story. Yeah, exactly. becausecause I think that all stories are complexified. And I want to say at the beginning, this is that's not a bad thing. That's just that's the reality of how life is. This piece is about things that Arsenal did to win the title then they did do all of those things and they did win the title. Yeah. And and they also, you know, they did a lot of good things, which meant that they won the title. But I'm not going to suggest that every single narrative thread was necessarily like meticulously planned by Arsenal at every point of. So yeah, I'm going to maybe complexify the narrative a bit, but it's a fantastic piece. I really enjoyed reading. and it's really impressive. I'm someone who watches football because I you know, because I like to believe that there are ways of being smart in football, right? And Id like to believe those ways of approaching the game are enjoyable in their own right when when you say, oh look at these this group of people have come together and you know, if you actually go through the article, that the amount of people that is required actually produce this kind of outcome is incredible. a huge amount of people are going to talk about loads of names, some names people won't even have heard of before. It's just an incredible undertaking by a massive group to make this kind of thing happen. That should be celebrated and that should be That should be, you know seen as a good thing. There's always Aspects of luck and you know, happenstance and the same with every title. With every title, yeah. And so that's kind of what I'm interested in sort of digging into some the dails. I think you hit that caveat hard now. Yeah. you feel all cleared up? I think so. Okay, good. But people should read the wide Sargas they see It's a great novel. Sounds good. alsoso people should read Jane Eyre and laugh at their ex wife and the actic Yeah U Anyway, very scary and sad. Now here we go After this is after the Dinkers, John. oK the interest is finished now. I'm picking up again Years before Arsenal would become champions again, the club's decision makers identified what they believed could be a rare opportunity in the Premier League's competiveycle After a rigorous analysis of rival squads, contract lengths, age profiles and managerial timelines, they projected a win window between twenty twenty three and twenty twenty seven The period in which Manchester City and Liverpool, winners of the past eight titles between them, might finally loosen their grip on the division. Everything Arsenal subsequently did was built around that calculation Y, John. Yeah I think this is interesting. This is something that I've talked about before Just the concept of like squad cycles, I think and projecting onto the notion that you could project that window. Exactly. And I think you know most I think most teams have like squad cycles over like three to four years. I think Liverpool you can definitely see that you know, they I mean in the last few seasons we've seen that happen, right? There was was it twenty two, twenty three when Liverpool had that sort off year And they bought then a bunch of midfielders for the following season. And you can almost make the argument that The Liverpool's trophy triumph last season was was based off the fact that their squad that they sort of built the end of twenty two, twenty three sort of came to came into peak reached maturity. Yeah, exactly. they got that peak last season, right? So this is something that I think is very clear. Maybe with Man City, the interesting thing has been that like under Guardiola, they haven't really had that, right? They've been very good at like flattening out their cycle so that they don't ever hit those hit those curves. And I think what's so interesting actually the you know, the fact that Arsenal winning the title now and we've Liverpool then Arsen and City being off those two years. Big part of that is because it feels as though what happened with City last year was like the end of something, right? It wasn't just a cycle thing. It was like something has happened that has changed the reality of Premier League football. And then in January, they bought S Meno and Gaye to try to recapture the opportunity to compete. Exactly. and then they've had pretty good second half of the season, still not quite to their previous levels. but that's in part I would argue that because Guardiola has had to change the way that his teams play to match this this shift that we've seen in in the tactical meta. Well, of course, you know Ars still made that calculation And they were right. I mean, I think the other interesting thing, of course, is that that Arsenal could have won it in the previous two seasons as well, I think, right? So all of those within within the window. Yeah. And that's a good point to make actually, because what we're going to learn about here. I mean, when you're talking about the concept of a win window What you're talking about is like being prepared to be in the right place when other teams do badly. And I think that's much Yeah, that's very much the example of what peopleeople will talk about Arsenal finishing second as oh they've bottled it again. A actuallyually if you there's a more favorable way of reading it, which is Arsenal have had consistent performances for the last four seasons and at this point in time when Liverpool have dropped off and City aren't quite where they are Arsenal have been able to continue producing the same level of quality and as ault they've won the league. And it's paid off now. Yeah. Okay, picking up here In the winter of twenty twenty, with Nica Artetta under significant pressure and the team drifting in mid table Arsenal's manager flew to Denver in the United States, alongside then non executive director, Tim Lewis to meet the club's owner, Stan Kronky Yes. I'm just going to make it as sideide here. Tim Lewis is an interesting guy. He's I think he's like a legal representative of the Cronkeies and was quite heavily involved in the period at which the Kronkeys bought arsenal at the beginning. and he was then later on brought on board and was given a much more important role. I mean, yeah, he he's made a member of the board at some point after before that really only having been involved in the buyout procedure. Right. I think there's a bit more information as we go on, but I just thought it's helpful to know that now and he seems to be guy Yeah he seems to be quite important from a sort of over the top strategy point of view. Okay. togetherogher are Teta and Lewis, that's Tim Lewis that we were just talking about It presented a long term strategy designed to restore Arsenal as both a modern superclub and an elite football team Behind the scenes at London Colney, the project was already taking shape Edu's arrival as technical director in the summer of twenty nineteen triggered a radical restructuring of Arsenal's football operation. Large sections of the Scouting department were dismantled and replaced by a newly formed football intelligence unit This innovative team were tasked with building a detailed picture of English football's future and Arsstal's place in it Yes, John. If people want to know more about the foootball intelligence unit, there's actually a James Mc Nicholas article from the Time. so that's march twenty twenty three. Wasn't part of it bought in a few years ago as a data company Yes. so the article that I mentioned there is Arsenal's Fotball intellig intelligence unit and what the revamp means. So there's the full story of that there if you want to go and find that on the athletic. But so I think what you're talking about there is that I think this is maybe earlier right at the end of Arson Venger's time when they bring in a A data company I think they brought all of their data coverage in house, whichich I think was quite unique because a lot of clubs before that. I mean, the data revolution happens in what twenty ten. So we're talking like this is only five years earlier. So I think Arson was super far ahead of the curve with the data side of things. But yeah, what we're talking about here is they essentially dismantle their scouting network And they laid off a lot of scouts. I remember it happening at the time and everyone being like, o Arsenal aren't going have any scouts, it's not going to go well. But essentially what they did is they just restructured the whole of their I guess The fact they call it an intelligence unit. it's kind of almost like the strategy and plotting aspect behind that. And I think you that's a smart thing to do because I think often what happens in these big old clubs that have been operating for ages is that you're like, well, we've got the data department over here. mayaybe we just bolt that on after twenty ten. We've got the scouting department over here. we've got the, you know the recruitment department over here and everything becomes really separate from one another. Whereas it seems as though what's happened here is it's like If we're going to be able to have any success here, we need to have a unified front. We need to have everyone talking to everyone else. There has to be some kind of sense of overall strategy here. and there has to be a football intelligence unit. Exactly. ye. I mean And this is the thing with Arsenal, right? They often like to give funny names to things and you know it's very easy to joke about ourrtetta with his sort of like seemingly gimmicky things The underlying principle here is There's a plan. It's solid. It's yeah everyveryone is on the same sheet. everyveryone lines into the same place. There's a strategy that people are thinking about. And you know, they're thinking in smart terms of like, okay, when's the best time for us to win the league. Like if we're going if we're going to come back from, you know, two decades of not having won a title, We're not just going to do this by accident, right? whichich a lot of teams seem to think, right? They just seem to think As long as buy plays it will just happen whereereas they've been like, okay, how are we actively going to achieve that and have some kind of process and structure underlying the whole thing? Well're picking up, that's exactly what they say next. So That department, the football intelligence unit we're talking about, mapped the possible decline of rival sides years in advance Arsenal anticipated potential managerial changes at rival clubs foreseeing the departure of Jurgen Klop from Liverpool, among others They projected the age curves for players such as Mohammed Salah and Virgil Van Dyck at Liverpool and Manchester City's Kevin DeBryer It wasn't a perfectly accurate prediction, but it provided the hierarchy with a framework player recrument was then aligned to those forecasts, enabling Arsenal to assemble a squad designed to peak just as their rivals started to fade I'm going to interrupt myself here, John. I know you want to ring you ringing that bell as well. But the thing I find so interesting about this is it's okay to say this stuff in retrospect, right? Once you've won a title you look back and if you you know attribute you know direct causation here, you say, o, wasn't that smart? But can you imagine if at the time The club were open with fans about the notion that they weren't trying to win that year. That they weren't buying players to win that year, that they were saving to spend money on players in two years time when they felt that the window of opportunity was better. I think fans don't generally have the short term patience to deal with that kind of thing. What I was going to complexify the narrative as well and say, you again, they g themselves a massive window here, whatever it was. It was like up to twenty twenty seven, right? was five years. They were getting towards the end of that period. I think there's an argument to be made actually this arsenal team peaked before this season. So for example, Bakayi Saka has not played much this season because of injury. That's because he was being played a lot more in previous seasons. Martin Odgar as well has been an important player for them in previous seasons. This's a little bit like he's coming to the end of his career with them. And again so that's why at the beginning I was wanted to point out actually this is about This is about putting yourself in the best situation to be able to benefit when things go badly for other teams. Yeah. You've got to you don't need to constantly be hitting a peak. You just have to be hitting well enough to actually compete over and over and over again. And so the argument could be made here that you know, yes, they've obviously they've tried to get their team peaking in a period where they they have a good chance of maybe winning that season. I think that was probably last season and they they probably were hugely disappointed last season not to push Liverpool harder and they probably you know, we were all surprised by Liverpool's performance last season. so's not It's not exactly like a profound thing to say, but I think that what's happened this season is that maybe arsenal potentially like in terms of the squad aging and where they are in the cycle maybe have starting to go across that peaked towards the other side. They're still obviously very good and very much deserved winners this season. but yeah, that's the reality of like a competitive league, right? is that it's not just that you've got to be in the right place. It's that other teams have to be in the wrong place as well. and there's nothing you can really do about that beyond projecting this win window that they were working with. Wellill they go on to talk about exactly this. Hey, Pablo Torere here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now. And there is one thing that I can promise you Nothing compares to the World Cup And this time it is even better thanks to McDonald's. You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal The cups feature some of the biggest legends football, like David Beckham, Teron Ree and Ronaldinio, Christian Palisk Laminia Mal and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine leegendary cups when you order the FFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's att participating McDonald's only for a limited time, while supplies last, All rights reserved, copyright twenty twenty six. McDonalds at the FIFA World Cup, twenty twenty six It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this, Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover dot com slash credit card High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face. Unless you power up with a so far personal loan. so far personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment It's even got suuper spepeed. Since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you signed Visit sofi. com slash power to learn more. That's soFi d. com slash PW E Mans originated by Sofi Bank NA, member F theIC terms of conditions supppply NMLS six nine six eight nine one. Naturally tweaks and adjustments have been required They were near misses. Those three consecutive second place finishes between twenty twenty three and twenty twenty five suggested that they were close but needed more With Asenal's projected opportunity narrowing, the appointment of Andrea Bera as sporting director last March brought about a more aggressive final push in the transfer market Ultimately, Arsenal delivered on the plan they had set in motion years earlier. This title was not simply one on the pitch, it was engineered. To tell the full story, those consulted by the athletic for this article spoke anonymously to prrotect Relationships Dinkus. Yes John. I was just going to say engineered is kind of an interesting term, right? Be everyone Every other club is trying to do what Arsenal have achieved. Yeah. I would make the argument that most of the clubs didn't do it in a way that you know, deserve them to win it in the way that Arsenal did. R. But yeah,s I think there's a few's, you know, there's a few arguments you can make about this. One of the things I think is interesting is like how would the narrative have changed if like Arsenal didn't win the league this year, which, you know, was a possibility I would say a pretty low possibility probably, but you know We got to two game weeks before the end of the season before they actually won it. How does that change the way the counterfactual, how do you change the way you read the narrative? Alternatively, Asenal fans think that's a miserable way of looking at it. What if Arsenal had won earlier in the cycle then? How would we change the narrative? because I think if they'd have won it in maybe you know twenty two, twenty three, they had a good chance of winning the title if they'd have won the title that year Probably we wouldn't have quite so many narratives about, oh, this is about a long term process and having faith and sticking with it. It would have been more about, oh, we made these good decisions early on and we saw the benefits almost immediately. So I think while you're saying like obviously the team was there or thereabouts. they could have won it in those last three years. I guess the difference is, you know, people zooming in a bit and thinking about this season. people talk a lot about squad debths as being that extra factor that's helped them get over the line. It seems, doesn't it like because there's a little difference between position one and position two, and often a little difference between the points tallies of those that there isn't a big gap. But actually, Arsenal weren't able to do it for three years in a row and then they spent more money, they built a deeper squad you know, got luck in some ways as some the big players as we said, right? L they had to answer. But they did get over the line this year. so it's kind of hard to know, isn't it? becausecause the narrowest of margins can take a huge amount of effort or money or patience to push And I think this is maybe the final point I want to raise on this, which is I think the most interesting thing about Arsenal right now is that actually I think it's quite a risky approach to take this win window approach because as we said before, it you're not even aiming to necessarily have your squad in one season and say we're going to just throw everything for this one season and try and be better than everyone that season and hope for the best. What you're saying is we're going to try and flatten that peak out and hope that someone else does worse. And I think There is a huge amount of risk involved with that. Not least because you know we can talk about that win window that they projected or we want. But actually, as we've mentioned, there's been a massive shift in the way that the game is played from a tactical point of view, which has suited Arsenal. and you can make the argument that they were super prescient in recognizing that actually going for a more defensive approach could work out for them in the long run. There's an extent as well to which If that shift didn't happen, then we could still be in the same situation where City are, you know, still dominating or maybe they they had an off season last season where they they lost some of their players because of age, but they could have then brought in these projections are kind of without that perspective Yeah, because doesn it doesn't appear so far that the plan for that window also included a style of football or an acknowledgement of the style of football meta. Yeah, there's two yeah, two things I guess I'm saying. One is like if you're always aiming to challenge but maybe not go above that level. It just rely on being consistent, then you're relying on other teams having to drop down. There's an element of risk in that. but yeah, I guess maybe it's a fourth point, which is actually they were massively aided by the fact that the tactical meta shifted. Other teams got better outside of the top six. And as a result of that, I think Arsen off the top four ye. Yeah.en we're in the best position Tactically speaking to be able to withstand that kind of shift and with their play. Yeah. But again, I just want to complex find the narrative. That could have just been complete luck on their part, right? They They've made the right decision and it's great looking back on it now and they deserve to win the title because of it. But some of these things are just external and they happen and you have to be ready to benefit from them when they when they do happen. Yeah. Okay, there was a Dinkus there, you'll recall. Yes.. You're in the Dinkus is in. Have you? Yeah, well, you know, this is a longer piece. so I wanted to make sure that when I suggested the break point because we're going to do two episodes here. That's true. been talking for quite a long time. I think we've only made it past the second Dinkus I think there's only a couple more dinkuses we need to get past. Really? Yeah. A just a handful of dink eye. Dink eye. All rightright let me let me carry on. The vision the Arsenal delegation presented to Stan Cronky had been intricately mapped out within the corridors of London Colney. Summer twenty twenty was perhaps the pivotal moment In the midst of the COVID nineteen pandemic, Asenal were drifting According to sources close to the Arsenal hierarchy, Kronkey felt that he needed more insight and information about the inner workings of the club To provide that, he turned to Lewis, a trusted lawyer who had advised the American family throughout their piecemeal purchase of Arsenal Grong, what does peaceemail mean uh in in bits. Yeah. Piecemeal always feels like it's like a piece meeal. Like it's that's a really bad meal. People say mealy when an apple is mey Grainy Yeah, yeah, yeah ye. Okay, so it means inspi. I agree I've got a very sort of onomatopaic like negative connotation the word pceeal. Okay. so what we're really saying is throughout they're sort of segmented, but they're staged per. Yeah much I don't remember the details of it, but I guess neither do buy it tanch of It was piecemeal, John. Yeah. ye Croni may have got more than he bargained for, with Lewis driving a thorough cleansing of the club. Out went head of football Ral Saneji, and with him the transfer policy that brought in the likes of Nicolape, David Louise, and Cedric Suarez. A raft of redundancies saw the Souting department reborn as the football intelligence unit analyst Jason Itto stepped up to help reshape this leaner team with key contributors from the likes of Ben Napper, Mark Curtis, and later James Ellis. he's the in version of Ellis James. So what's the opposite of Welsh English. It probably is English. It probably is English yet. I suspect he is English as well. I was going to say it's kind of interesting because I think Jason Ao is now a Bright and Ben Napper moved on to was it Norwich or Southampton or something like? I think you might be asleep No you like that one, eh?. Ben Ner. Ben Siestter, you know That's where he' called in in Spain, right? Um But yeah, they I think again, a big a big part of what this has been about has been about Arsenal willing to take hard decis and move people on when they feel the need to do so. We talked about Eddu earlier, right? And Eddu obviously moved on and had a huge amount of success with Arsenal and they brought in Bertta as we've just mentioned. So didn't Eddu leave to go to work with Marinakis? That's right, Yeah. it wasn't necessarily moved on. No, but the impression I got was that like everyone was happy. It was a bit of tension between him and and Aretto It was felt as it was the best thing to do. And you know, I think we talked about this on an earlier podcast that I think all elite clubs go through this process where manager starts off as a head coach Yeah and when they have success, they then become manager, right? Because you have to give them more control and more power. They consolidate power over time. And I think that's I think that's a It's just the natural cycle of an elite side. You want that to happen because it means that your club is working. your coach is doing a good job. And I think that was just maybe part of that natural process of because the success kept coming, there was there was a feeling that Artetta deserved more power and therefore had maybe more of a say over some of the recruitment stuff. That's just what happens. The story here is that Arsenal have made those hard decisions and moved people on when they feel as though there's a There's improvements to be had and that's that's a really important part of the club process as well. Yeah. okay. picking up here Arsenal developed a defined approach to the market. Moving forward, they would seek to sign players who were aged twenty three or under and cost forty million euros, or forty six million point four dollars That's our current rates Or less. That was a confusing sentence. I shouldn't have read the in brackets. Anyway, that's players under twenty three under thirty six thirty four, thirty four point six million pounds. Do you get that? You catch that? Yeah. forty million euros is a nice round sum though. Yeah Lewis endorsed this strategy, and the Cronkies, Stan and son Josh, approved it. The foootball intelligence staff ensured scouting, data and relationships with agents were all attuned to those clear parameters In the summer of twenty twenty one, Arsenals set their stall out by making six first team signings, almost all of whom met the above criteria. Y, John. that's funny. almost of wh who met the above criteria. It's actually Ben Ben White cost fifty eight point five million euros. So he's the one that didn't. So he's the one that didn't Okay. Odegard was U thirty five million euros R But yeah, again, it's kind of like nice neat narrative that they were going to try and but you know, you do what you have to do, but like there's two seasons where they keep to fairly low transfer fees and then they have the big transfer fees and Declan Rice and Kai Hat. So again again, like I think fans get quite touchy when you mention like transfer fees, but it's just You do what you've got to do, right? If you want to compete at the top of the table, you've got to spe money. And the impress the closer you get to the top of the table, the more players go by. Right, exactly, and the more wages go up and success breeds like you know longer contracts and w raised wage bills. That's just part and parcel of being successful and doing things at the top level. I think what the impressive thing with clubs who do well is often how well those transfers hit the success that you have with them. And you know, Benite Martin Eudegard obviously were successful some of the other signings they made that window were maybe less successful. They brought in Aaron Ramsdale, Tommy Yasu, Samy Lakonga and Nuno Tavareres. But again I think the same thing is true here where you know, Ramsdow was obviously important an important phase that they went through in the in the improvement of the goalkeeper and then eventually arriving at David Ryer, who is is obviously fantastic, one of the best goalkeepers in the world. And Tommy Asy was an important player as and when was needed. And what they did was they they had a squad that was successful and they could build on it year on year. And again, that's what that's what has made them arrive at the point that they have now. That's the same thing as what Manchester City have done, right? They've They've signed players and had success with those signings and then Guadola's super strength has often been moving those players on when he feels like he can't get any more out of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. well, anyway, picking up in the middle of that paragraph While not every deal worked out, that initial influx of talent included Martin Edegard, who you mentioned, and Ben White, you also mentioned, who would become cornerstones of the project And I'll introduce myself as well, interrupt myself. I'll introduce myself. Hello, I'm Joe. what's your deal? And then I'll interrupt myself to say, you know, we already mentioned the idea that Ben White is now probably at the end of his time with Arsenal. So that's an interesting, you know, if we're describing him here as a cornerstone of the project, then we're also having we're making some comment about the project and where we are within it right now. Exactly. We've talked about Odigard as well, potentially aging out through fitness concerns as well. So and that's what it's about, right? It's like if you're going to try and keep consistent performance at a high level, then you have to have constant squad refresh Yeah Arsenal knew their strategy was unlikely to bear fruit for several years In the interim, there was a painful process of purging the squad, moving on from aging, well paid players, including Mesa Erzil and Louise. Contract terminations for Ppppe, Hector Berin, and Pierre Emmerric Obamiang made the club the subject of ridicule, but they were determined to embrace radical change New signings were added to a core that included younger players such as Bukaya Saka Gabrielle Martinelli and Emil Smith Re, often graduates of the club's accademy After Artetta's initial doubts about him, William Salleiba was eventually reintegrated Arsenal purposefully recruited a group born within a few years of each other who could mature together And I will interrupt myself again to say, I mean I know you already made this point But I'm just remaking it. They did make a lot of difficult decisions And as this paragraph points out, they did do that in the face of people making fun of them for the result of those, the outcome of those or whatever, which I think is something you really have to put in their favour. We've said this a few times this season. It's very easy to make fun arsenal for numerous reasons aren't worth going into But that that, you know, particularly Arteta, I guess and then the hierarchy are so um focused on continuing with their plans regardless of what people outside think. You hear footballers say a lot in postmact interviews, Oh, we're just focus on the next game. we don't read, we don't read what people are writing about us. We don't listen to pundits. Often it's not true I really feel with Arsenal like this season, I just feel like it is true. I don't think players ever looked like players that knew what everything that people were saying about them for the last eight weeks. I think they've done quite a good job of that. Yeah look I've talked a lot about narratives here and a lot of the narratives that we're talking about is actually people from the outside looking in telling the story of what's happened. Yeah. But those narratives happen internally to the club as well. And I think that's the argument that you know, for us looking on the outside, looking at how Arteetta narrates what the club is is often quite funny, right? Because you look at them and you think most normal people would just be like, bull shit, man, that's ridiculous. How' anyone buying that? These guys do, that's the reality is that el levelrou Yeah, it works for the group and they buil a group where they're used to hearing these stories and they're and you know we'll see some examples of them later on happening in sort of concrete ways. Molr Tetter won't care what people make of those internal narratives from the outside, because those internal narratives are not for the people on the outside, they're for the people in the group. And I think the coach, his job is to make sure those narratives are coherent and convincing to the guys within the group, that's clearly true, right? This group that they built of young players that they've aged together They've gone through this whole process together. It's obviously convincing and it works. So ye I think it's well worth mentioning that. The other thing I would note as well is just complexifying the narrative again is William Salleibber, now one of the best backs in the world. At first Oteta didn't believe in him and it took a think he went back on loan and it took a while for him to trust in him. M gu Lewis Kelly wasn't believed in John wasas he until the end of the season? And I think you know again, people can look at that and be like, o, you know, whatever, that means that the narratives are that we're spinning aren't correct. But that's not the point is more that You have to be able to change your mind on things as well and recognize when you are wrong. That's an important part of leadership just being right all the time. And I think again, because a lot of the internal narratives that Arsenal likek to tell then sort of bleed out into the wider fan base and they have this sort of idea of like, oh, this is everything is Artetta's plan, right? And Artetta has to almost become godlike in perspcuity and like his ability to see the future. Actually sometimes he has made mistakes and I think part of the reason why Arsenal where they are now is because he has the ability to recognize those our mistakes and then rectify them. I really believe that about leadership and personally I can't wait for my opportunity to acknowledge when I've been wrong. It just hasn't happened yet. but I'm looking at every day I'm looking out for it and waiting. You seem to tell me that I make mistakes all the time, so maybe I was your big failure That leadership. That's certainly true Now picking up, the next sentence starts that has resulted in, and of course we're referring to Arsenal purposefully recruiting a team that would mature together. That has resulted in a squad with strong social bonds In their downtime and when traveling, many play cards. orr the Spanish board game is this parquis pachis?'t know I want to how that's pronounced. Let me find out. It's emphasized on the second syllable pronounced exactly like the dairy product cheese. Pa cheese, pa cheese. And that's according to Google's AI overview. so it's probably wrong ' a That's Google pronounces it even if the Spanish don't S partis Partise Pise. So not only sounds like cheese if you're Spanish. Cheese cheese Yeah Pese. Okay, there we go. So that that's one of the Spanish board games they've been playing while traveveling Many of the players are also linked by faith with a strong Christian contingent in the group Yes, Tom. Yeah, I was actually going to bring that up because there's a really interesting article by Simon Hughes at one of our Liverpool journalists who wrote about this with respect to Liverpool because their famous Jogen Klop group had a lot of religious players within it.. So this article's called Alison Roberto Famino and the and religion's role at Liverpool and in the Premier League. And obviously Klop is also quite religious as well. So really I do think this is fascinating as well. know its like it's on the rise in some ways. Yeah, and you've got what you've got to understand is like religion has, you know, eroded its influence in particularly in the West over, you know the last fifty hundred years. But that's not been true in the global South. So Alison and Roberto Famino to South American players where religion is vibrant. Africa is a place where religion has been on the rise in the last few years. So there are a lot of players who come into the league and who have religious. Yeah and are religious. And there's a lot of I think black players from London who come from religious families and you see that influence as well Ebera Chize, for example, is and Crystal Palace have a group of quite religious players as well. And again, that' that's something that can help you tell the narrative internally that you want to tell. when havey shared beliefs that allow you to allow them to bond, I guess more than just football. Yeah. I mean, I thing I find interesting about about um what seems to be at least, mayaybe it's only politically and maybe it's not culturally, but there seems to be a kind of R Is that the right term? a reflux of uh rel religious religiousness religiosity in and what I'm trying to say is that I feel like there are a group of men, young men who are whose interests are in self improvement. And often the gym and lifting weights and trying to be devout whether they're religious or not And I think often religion whether that is Christianity or Islam or Judaism or whatever plays a role within that in a way in a way that is accepted and part of like, you know, quote, unquote not uncool culture in the way that maybe it was in the nineties and the two thousands. Yeah. It's And I understand why people would connect the values of religions to the act of self improvement or self betterment. they seem to be two things that go quite well together in a way. So I sort of understand I'm not saying that being religious gives you an advantage in football, but I can understand why footballers who have to live very very essentially devout lifestyles lives Yeah, disciplined lives Where you know they measure everything they put into their body, they have to exercise a certain amount. They really need toem. Their bodies are temples, ye. They try not to engage in, you know the maybe fun practices that other people their age might engage in in order to make sure that they are as well prepared as possible to play football. In some ways, there are a lot of similarities between between professional footballers and then people who devoutly follow religions. So I sort it kind of makes sense that I think this is really I think that's a really good observation because I think what you get with religion is a sense that everything is meaningful, right? And I think if you don't have that and then you're sort of beating yourself up to be good enough to be anite elite athlete. Yeah. and you don't believe there's any meaning to anything in life, then I think it's much harder for you to go through that process. Is it though I don't think it's true I don't think' true. just I don't actually believe that, but what I do believe is that from a narrative perspective only, it's easy for these two themes to become intertwined. If you were already religious And then you then you you you then you you live in a disciplined way I understand why living in a disciplined way for other reasons would intertwine with. But I'm not religious. I don't have You're completely illisciplined. How dare you. My point is more, I also would I wouldn't describe myself as a nihilist, but like I don't believe in meaning in a kind of preordained way But that doesn't stop me from being married That doesn't stop me from like coming to work or trying to make things or try to be good at something. So I don't I agree only from like a perception and narrative perspective, not from a reality I think' a lot of this comes from these guys will have grown up in quite religious families. and I think that You know, again, the idea of being disciplined as a child, like it's a lot easier to do when you come from that kind of context where as you say discipline is treated as an on all laid good. So yeah, I agree. I think's you're right to push back on me though. I am ill disciplined though. But so are you. You came from a religious family. That tr. Okay. Hey, Pablo Torere here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now. And there is one thing that I can promise you Nothing compares to the World Cup. And this time it is even better thanks to McDonald's, You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FeFA World Cup meal The cups feature some of the biggest legends football, like David Beckham, Terryon Ree, and Ronald Dinio, Christian Palisk Laminia Mal and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine leegendary cups when you order the FeF World Cup meeal only at McDonald's at participating McDonald's only for a limited time while supplies last, All rights reserved, copyright twenty twenty six. McDonalds at the FIFA World Cup, twenty twenty six It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover d. com slash credit card. Where am I? Oh yes. The project showed early promise, with Arsenal returning to European football and then the elite Champions League ahead of schedule The recruitment strategy evolved with players acquired closer to Prime years's age to allow them to fit in seamlessly into a developing squad. And that's quite fun, isn't the idea of like as you I was talking to someone the other day about losing weight And he said the problem is the more weight you lose, the less calories you're allowed, right? It's kind of the same but the inverse here, right? L you buy young players forty million euros initially and you want them to grow together. Well, next year, youve gott to buy someone who's twenty five, then twenty six, then twenty seven, which we have seen Arsenal. And again Transfer fees do slowly creep up. soes. The following season, they sign Gabriel JZooz for fifty two million Well I mean I'm literally about to read that paragraph, so I'll do that and then you can comment. That necessitated a loosening of the purse strings and achieving regular Champions League football made that a possibility. So Arsenal targeted specific profiles, including Uuran Timber, David Rya, and their club record signing Declin Rice. The club had built an impressive squad, but to win, they needed a special coach too. o that's that's a pre dinkus teaser Yeah, again, I was just going to push back and say complexifies the narrative because the narrative is, oh we' got new transfer strategy. We're not going to spend over forty million euros and the players are going to be twenty three. It's like, well, they did that for one season. and they signed someone who was over that cast anyway. Yeah The following season, they did the same thing and then they were already at a point where they're like, oh, well, we don't need this transfer strategy anymore. But it works. It worked. Dinkus Dinkus Artetta's FA cup win in summer twenty twenty was an early demonstration of his potential He did not ask for his subsequent promotion from head coach to manager. Arsenal did it to bring the Spaniard into senior strategic conversations Suddenly, he had access to key business data and metrics. It helped him understand that the club were making themselves competitive on the pitch as rapidly as the game's regulatory landscape and their commercial growth permitted And that was vital It engendered both trust and loyalty Those traits would sustain the relationship between club and manager through difficult periods, including successive eighth placed finishes, external mockery of his methods, and some supporters' own doubts over whether Arsenal were now destined to be perennial bridesmaids I'm just going to interrupt myself and ring my own bell there to say your own trump. I feel you should have a trump. I should have a trump to blow. should to blow your trump. I'd love to do.'m gonna I'll bring a trumpet I really li like the idea. I mean James has writt written it in a beautiful way, but I really lik it of simplify that notion that they made him manager, they gave him access to money spreadsheets. and so he then believed and understood that they couldn't spend more money, right? Like that you know if that's like essentially the most simplified version of that narrative, that's really interesting and also that causes me to think about other football teams where you might have a head coach who's like constantly pissed off at the leadership for not buying them the player they want and not believing the excuse that, oh we just haven't got enough money and there's not enough. coppers in the coffers. Yeah, which is why I mentioned before as well. I just think elite teams have to go through that process of making a head coach into a manager if it's going well because. I think there's plenty of other clubs like your Brightons's and your Brentfords where's where the head coach is always just viewed as one department of of amongst others. But I think that works when you're a mid table team and success is engendered by like consistently selling players for more than you sign them for and making sure the coach is giving them. the sort development and platform to be as good as they can. But when you're on elite side, suddenly those those thats sort of like process become, which is a very efficient process, right? becomes much less efficient. And it's much more about finding the sort fine margins at the top rather than, you know being being financially proficient in the way that you know your Brentfords and your brights are It was often in those moments of adversity that Arsenal's confidence in Ar Teta grew After losing the opening three games of the twenty twenty one twenty two season, documentary cameras captured Josh Cronkey in conversation with Arteta Qote, The only people you can trust are the ones in the room with you right now, Arsenal's co owner reassured him Trust me, I believe in you Yes, John. I've been listening to an audio book where the guy in it did the accents of the people The quotes were in. Do you want me to do that? Yeah, I just wondered if you're gonna do that. I don't know what you think about that because about the accents. This audiob book is like a history of Oxford philosophy from nineteen hundred to nineteen sixty, which indicates how boring my life is. But there's people who were like from the Netherlands, there's people from the Australia. Wittgenstein was mentioned and he did a did like a proper German accent. Now did he do an accent of anyone that was from Africa or Asia or anywhere like that? Well the Caribbean? Or the Caribbean. No. No not at all. It was all safe accents. Now there in, I think lies the issue, doesn't it? I would love nothing more, nothing more than to do safe accents all day long And in fact, did you know what? Do one now. I'll do one now The only people you can trust are the ones in the room with you right now Trust me I believe in you. I think you' really nowailed Josh Trunky I've got it on authority that's what Joshrunky sounds like. And listen, if he says anything else in the piece, you probably won't But if he does, straight in. You got it Gab a goo The club's faith in their manager has been unwavering. their conviction absolute. Is that your elbow that just clickpped? It was my ankle. Did you hear it? Yeah? I don't think the microphone will have heard it, but I lifted my foot and it went It was quite loud. Yeah yeah. I can do this one. hold on hold there So It's not even clicking properly, you know. Did you have any ligaments in there That's just popping, that's just like popping out No that?. Oh that was wet as well. I didn't realize you were such a walking mess. I'm a click. I'm a clicker. What does that mean?'s fine It's just air trapped in the joint, isn't it something like? Just air. don What do you think I ha' got any ligaments? I'malking around. Everything's fine. Anyway if you can't hear those clicks, Nathan, probably just cut that bit out Where was I? Well, maybe introduce some foley clip clips. That's true. I just want to say to the listeners, if you hear massive clicks, then editor Nathan has has been Okay I'm picking up here I' picking up here. Arteta is the third longest serving manager or head coach in o, I can see there's a quiz coming. There'siz I can feel a quiz in this. Arteta is the third longest serving manager or head coach in England's top four divisions this season behind Simon Weaver of League two's Harrogut Town and his former mentor guuola. I didn't know Simon Wea's mentor was P Guadiola. That's incredible. He's had a big influence on English football right. Now even this year, Arsenal signaled their intention to discuss a new contract before the campaign's outcome. Yes, John. Right. So let's do the quiz. Okay. So I've got this from Wikipedia, which doesn't seem to accept the existence of Simon Weaver. So I've got the top ten longest serving managers in the English league system right now. Okay. Pet Guadiola is top, Micolteta is second. Pet Guadiola nine years, three hundred twenty one days as of yesterday, I should say. Miolteta is six years, one hundred forty seven days there's a few names in here that you probably will know there's a lot that you probably won't. One of them has just been signed I think one of them has justank in saying this. What does that mean? One of these coaches have been signed by another club. Oh, so these are current coaches. These are all current coaches. Th these aren't currently in their long longevity how could they have been signed by another club? I mean, so that's off As of like today or something, I think I saw let me just check this. That was supposed to be a clue for you, but like could that possibly be the case? Well, I mean yeah were a long running man because he's still serving as a manager. He's just announced that he's going somewhere else Oh, is it Ariola? No. So yeah it's a Premier League coach who is will not be a Premier League coach next season. Oh they still currently at this club. Did we already know that he was leaving We did not It was maybe a bit of a surprise.'ve he's been linked with this news. He's been linked with a lot of other clubs higher up the table. Alex Ferguson. No it's currently serving managers. Oh Roberta is happy I genuinely don't know who that could be. I mean, I can work out by process of elimination if you want. For this Yeah, listen to me work out who this news story could be about. It's not Pp Guadiola It's not Pep Guardiolo, although he is in the list. He is the Well, you already told me he was in the list. I'm not this specific Michr. This specific person we're talking about now, it's not Michel Arteta. Michael Carrick's not been there long enough and he's not leaving. Roberta Deerbi's only just arrived, right U I Eie, I would be very surprised if he announced that he was leaving after the Europe. in this list. Also not in the list, so it's not him Beyond that then Anna Slot Not been there long enough. Not been there long enough. and also I doubt you know, it won't be him announcing that he's levinging. would bes. I think you would have heard about. I probablyably would have heard about that. Okay, so therefore I infer that it's smaller news. It's not David Moyys. Not David Moyys. That would be Earth shatter. Also not in this list New N Spiritander hasn't hasn't been there anyhere near longough.ang changed clubs this season. Yeah Vito Perererera has been only for four days or something in forest, so he doesn't count You've done a good job of naming basically everyone apart from this player. Okay it's not Fabian Herzler because he's not been there long enough. It's not the guy at Brentford whose name I forgot Key Andrew because he' only been there for one season. U Chelse you don't have a manager, so that doesn't count Who am whoo am I know? donon't tell me, but which clubs am I m? Full of Marco Silver. Is it Marco Silver? Mar Where are going? He's going to Ben Fia. to replace Jose Marinia Surely feels like I steep down. he's been four years, three hundred and twenty one I thought a bigg club than Benh Pmi Lague a gamble on. a Premi League manager you haven't named. There's another manager who will be in the Premier League next season and has been in the Premier League before Oh, you mean u from u u not Middlesborough, from u Hip switch. Yes. Your man Y man Cco Michael Carrick. The man from Michael Carrick. What's his name? Here McKenna? Here in McKenna, of course. That's great. How long's been four one hundred and fifty three days And's who's the other person? The one Newcastle Oh, Eddie How. fourour years hundred. I forgot about Edie Howow because Newcastle have just been such no marks all season. The other one that you will know, definitely well there's two you will know, but one of them is the Wrexham Manager Oh, yes, of course Yes, Phil four years, three hundred and twenty one days. Brian Clof' son, Nigel Cloough. Nigel Cloough. Five years. He's the third highest third longest serving manager, according toikipedia, And then we've got Andy Woodman, five years fifty days at Bromley, L two, which is Freddie Woodman's father. He's a a backup goalkeeper at Liverpool. Right. Dean Brennan at Barnet, four years, two hundred forty days and Dave Challoner, Stockport County four years one hundred ninety seven days for. As I say, this is all according to Wiipedia so if you have any problems with this. I just I just want to say what's thrown me is the idea that there were two coaches in this long serving list who won't be in their same league. or that was very confusing. sorry, I didn't I thought that was going to help you, but othertherwise I think I would have got them all right. Yeah Yeah I think so. wasn me holding you back as always. Okay, well, I predicted at least I got the correct predicting a quiz in that location. I'll pick up now The degree of trust is understandable. Arteta is an outstanding coach with a level of attention to detail unlike anything Arsenal have known. This season, that has been particularly evident in their proficiency at set pieces Is it any surprise an Artetta team have excelled in one of the game's more coachable controllable moments? One of his assistants, Nicholas Jover, is a deadball situations specialist and even has a bonus in his contract tied to set peace goals. so he'll be buying a very expensive car this summer, I expect. twenty four goals worth of bonus These kind of bonuses are not unusual at Arsenal. The club have left no stone unturned in their attempts to find a competitive advantage at Corner Kicks. They've been proactive in dialogue with Howard Webb and the PGMO, why they don't say Lll here. Why don't we say E anymore? Isn't it because it's the company name is PG PGMO limited The L was for limited. Right, but I prefer it with under GMO doesn't sound good. I think they've done that because it's so easy to say pogmo. Pgm. And they're just like, if we get rid of the L then what do you say? Pm Pgmo. I guess you do, but like you could say Pgmo. Pgmo. Okay, well, anyway, Howard Webb and Pgmo match officials body, road testing ideas and trying to set, define and exploit the margins of what is permissible within the laws of the game. I was going to say that's not the first L they've dropped this season. am I right? Yeah, I like that, but you've got to remember to ring your bell. Sorry. okay. Sometimes humour can't allow the period of time that the bell introduces. Fased with the Manchester City Juggernaut, Aretta and Arsenal have found another way to win They have borrowed elements from the Guadiola model, but with an even greater emphasis on control and security Arsenal's open play threat does not match that of Citity, but their set piece efficiency provides an alternative weapon. The architecture of this team is remarkably durable Yes,am. Id kind of want to push back against this a little bit. And I think this is the conversation about how sustainable will Arsenal's approach be if they continue the way theyre game. But Are you pushing back on the term durable? Yeah, because I think, for example, define durable. Well, maybe I'm just meaning sustainable there, but I guess because Inurable means the ability of an object, material or system to withstand wear pressure or damage over time. Right. And I think it's kind of clear that's not the case. I think Again, this is just my hunch, but I have a feeling that as we've talked about a number of times here Yes, you can win leagues playing in this way. Can you win consistent leagues playing this way when you're adopting this win window approach where you're relying on other teams dropping off And I think you can see that the margins are so tight because they often win games by one goal, right? Yeah exactly. And I think which just to spell it out for people listening. I know it maybe sounds stupid to do this, but If there's only a one goal margin and you canceded, that's two points dropped. If you are two goals up The chances of drawing are much lower, right? So it's really the same as like as simple as Pp Guardiola's team having the ball so they can't concede, right? It's like that kind of inverse logic, but it makes sense. Yeah. And I think you, if you go back to previous seasons, you can trace arsenals like so last season is a great example, right? their set piece efficiency was super low They weren't scoring set pieces at the same rate that they have done at other times this season, they've scored a lot more. They had injuries this season, which they as we said, they had the depth to be able to overcome that. But in previous seasons, there's been times when they've had those injuries and like William Sa Libra in twenty two twenty three when they had to play Rob Holding instead and they couldn't hold on to the title well the title place the end of the season. Yeah. referee decisions as well. like the twenty four twenty five season was the one where they had a couple of red cards that went against them and that sort of did it for them. So I guess my point again is like yes