Academy Success and Future Planning

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That's SOFi dot com slash PW ER. loans originated by SopFi Bank NA, member F theIC terms and conditions supppply NMLS six nine six eight nine one This episode of the TFo Football podcast is sponsored by Boss, businesswar provider for the US men's National soccer team. Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply won, it's earned. Boss understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest. constant refinement, precision in every stitch, and as the US men's national team B steps into the spotlight on home soil, Boss is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forward with confidence, express their individuality, and be their own boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring fromom Boss Performance. And soccer fans, Boss has you covered too, whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in Boss performance, or show your pride from the stands in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors and badges. Own the moment with confidence. Discover the Boss performance collllection, as worn by the US men's national soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos, and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own boss at boss. com or at your nearest boss store Hello and welcome to the TFO Football podcast. I'm Joe Devine and today I'm delighted to be joined by John Mackenzie. Hello, Joe. Alright, how's it going Good, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Why havenn't you looking at me in the eyes? Well Just then? Well, I just noticed that when I was saying my own name and looking at your eyes, you looked away halfway through. You don't to look into people's eyes for this amount of time. When they're saying their own name. I'm Joe Dev. Oh yeah, you don't like it. Look at you're shivering. Anyway, welcome to part two of this special ring for analysis mini series episode. Now here's ring for analysis. here's what it is. I read an artle published by the athletic and John rings a bell that sounds like this. When he wants me to pause so that he can do some analysis. although today you'll find that with Nobel, I managed successfully to interrupt myself multiple times. H had a lot of things to say today. Maybe I should have read art Maybe we should try that one time. What reading it for the first time. read it and you do the Oh yeah, great. yeah, absolutely. I could do that. I think we should try a special Christmas episode. Yeah, maybe. Let's do that. Anyway, what did we talk about today, John? Because of course, it was part two of James McNicholas's Toxic to title inside Arsenal's first Premier League for twenty two years and how they nailed their win window. What came up in our conversations? We talked about King Garlic and whether or not you should eat slugs. We did. We also talked about Mel Gibson's the Patriot for a while. I forgot about that. And the military tactics of the civil warar It was quite depressing that bit was it? Yeah. good honorable men from the pars though. Yeah we also talked about how narratives form Yes. That's right. We talked about last summer's transfer window for Arsenal and how I think it's possible to do a a little bit of revisionism about it. I don't know. I don't know I also, I repeat in that section what I think Arsenal fans should not message me. on social media But no, listen as I said in the first episode, I think these insideries are fascinating because they're full of information that we prior to this point, certainly listeners to this podcast and me as a reader, I didn't know. They reshape the way that you look at a story that has already happened and they allow you to look at it in a slightly different way. So John and I follow the logical next step, which is to reinvestigate that reinvestigation as well. And that's what I mean as it relates to Arsenal's transfer window last yearce takes the perspective that the increased depth of the summer transfer window last year, which I think had been the main narrative health throughout the season is one of the contributing factors to Arsenal's success this season, which is definitely true, but also what is true, I believe is what we discuss in today's episode. Oh, what a lovely little tease for Asenal fans who will now be scrubbing through to find where's the bit where he said the mean thing? When did he say the mean thing? you know A bit like how I scroll through the comments, only looking for the bits where people are rude about me and ignoring all the nice things. You know what I'm saying Anyway, there we go. So that's the episode today and after this bit of music, you will be able to listen to it John, shall begin when you're ready for me. I'm ready for you. Yeah. haveave you finished your plum? I finished my plum. You were just eating a plum. Yes, I've got a bad case of plum lung now. Okay Remember not to breathe into producer an Nathan hates it when you breathe into the microphone There it is, right. I shall pick up now. Part two begins here Ar Teta is fiercely protective of information and eager to avoid granting the opposing team any pre game advantage His evasiveness around injury news has become a trademark, but it's not only the media who are left in the dark Can I interrupt myself straight away Do you remember I found this interesting this season? that I don't remember the game, nor do I remember the specific injury news. but James who was the writer of this piece tweeted, I think or published a story ahead of a game about an injury that Arsenal had. And I remember it was the first time I've seen the fans of the team be furious with the journalist for giving them information about their team, which I thought was I mean I felt a bit sorry for James because there's no call for that. But I thought it was very interesting and it speaks to what is being written about here, that ArEeta being sort of fiercely protective of that information And also almost like getting the fans to be protectionist with him. So what was the feeling was that they should have kept it quietead of them. The feeling was that the journalist shouldn't have leaked the news well, the journalists didn't leak it. The journalist shouldn't have published news that was leaked from the squad because it would dage it would damage Arsenal's chances of winning the game or competing in the game. And I think in James' specific I don't want to speak for him, but I imagine given that he's an Arsenal fan that there were some fans who obviously know that that were particularly angry with him because they thought as a fan, you shouldn't be doing this, even though as a journalist, you should be doing this. That's your job. Yeah it's crazy, really. And obviously I'm sure this extends to beyond this is not a specific point about Asenal fans, but it's quite interesting how fans and fan culture can almost be like weaponized by a manager in not purposefully in this degree, not suggesting that our tetor is asking fans to go after journalists, the notion that they would be on board almost as though they are part of the running of the club themselves. Yeah, and we talked about it in the last episode about how much of this seems to operate within these ideas of causality that I think are often quite unhelpful And yeah, I mean, I guess the argument is too what extent can any of these small marginal details actually have a major impact on things overall? But I think that Arteta has definitely lent into this idea of like marginal gains the extent now that the fanbase think that, you know, actually a journalist giving information is counteracting those marginal gains and youre there's an argument to be made that like you're actually counteracting what the team are trying to do. And I guess I would say on the one hand, like I just don't think that revealing that, I don't know, it was Micar Mino when you were injured, like not sure' injured in training is somehow going to give the opponent like a massive advantage no in the way that they set up. Also when you're Micol Aretter and you pick the same team almost every week, then I don't know there's not a huge amount of rotational surprises. Yeah. I mean, I guess there are options that he could do that you know, if he did reveal it, then it would potentially give away a lot of the game plan. I do think that those things are probably often quite overblown. and. Also, it's not the responsibility of a I mean, it is actually the responsibility of a journalist to publish that kind of thing as opposed to It's the responsibility of the club to avoid leaks if they can, I guess. Yeah. Again, the question is what should the relationship between clubs and media be, right? Is If the media is setting out to operate as a medium between the fans and the club, then I think it's completely justified for them to to feel the need to give information that they think helps the fans understand what's going on. Yeah So yeah, It's it's It's one of those things, I think, where like these sorts of ideas have become normalized and as you say, rightly so I think that Areta has pushed that kind of narrative and therefore it has played a role in like weaponizing the fanbase to a certain degree. we're going to talk about part of the siege. Yeah, we're going to talk about them in a little in a couple of paragraphs anyway where using the fanbase as a generator of atmosphere, etcetera. So yeah let's carry on, I guess. Okay This season, sources close to the squad say it's been commonplace for Arsenals's players to discover the lineup for a match just a few hours before kickoff. In recent weeks, Aretta has even stopped circulating his chosen team early among club staff, waiting until the last possible moment to declare his starting eleven. I probably should have waited to read that before I interrupted myself. And I wasn't going to interrupt here, but then again, this is really interesting because I think There's a possible narrative that you could talk about this season of Aretta being very Almost like his neurosis coming to the fore in the second half of the season in particular. Which makes sense, right? Because if you've constantly been, whatever it is, always the brrideesmaid never the bride you I think it's so easy for you to sort of get in your own head about things like this. And I think if you look at the season as a whole In the beginning of the season, I thought Arsen were like super exciting. They were from a tactical point of view, they were they're implementing a lot of like diverse tactical approaches and you know, from a tactical point of view, felt to me, I'm pretty confident having predicted that Arsenal going to win the league. that they're going to do do it quite comfortably. But I think as the season went on, there was a game atst Villa that they lost And you know, Villa have been a bit of a bgey team, I think for Arsenal under Artetta. And it felt from that point onwards like a lot of the stuff that I was most excited about with Arsenal they stopped doing as much and that's not just to say first half of the season was different from the second half of the season. like in a sort of bald there's a one there's one thing happening in the first half, something happening in the second, which is often the case. Yeah, but it was more that you know, when we made videos about this, when Arsen would look fine until they went a goal up and then suddenly they would They would look really shaky in games. was They seemed more like a mental problem than a teical one. Right. But then we dug into that in the show me and Alex Barker and actually what we found is that Arsenal just played in a very different way once they were a goal ahead, right? Once they got into winning game states, they suddenly shifted their tactical approach. And I think a big part of what was so good about them and particularly at the beginning of the season is they had all of this ability to be super flexible and fluid and use rotations and build up to possess the ball, which in a world where everyone's doing man marking in build up phases It's a really good way of generating the space you need to progress the ball Obviously, that's great for if you're attempting to progress the ball Not really great if you're trying to defend the ball because if you move too much, everyone' your structure is compromised.. so what was happening is once they were getting into winning game states, they shifted the needle on risk and risk aversion, much closer to risk aversion. And yes, that made it much less likely they were going to concede, but it stopped them from being able to possess the ball as well as they had been. and that meant that they couldn't keep the ball longer. so they were having to do more defending as well. So in which case they were more likely to concede. Yeah,ight exactly. And I thought that was kind of interesting this season as well. It's almost as though You know, it's easy to think being more defensive is is a good approach if you're just wanting to get over the line from winning game states, but it has such a negative impact on your actual tactical approach in your gameplay and the flow of the game, that it felt to me in the second half of the season Arsenalle fell into that trap so many times where there's simply a goal ahead And all that happens is, you know, it's the West Ham game, right? If that if for whatever reason that that goal goes in and and there is no foul involved or if the referee makes a different decision or if that s if the Manchester City resort goes a different way. Yeah, right, exactly. And I think I think it's it it's going to be interesting, I think from here because I think another narrative that's been spwn is now they've won the league, Ateta can relax a little bit And you know, there's less pressure on them. But I do still think that he will always have that that sort of sense of of of small C conservative neurosis, which is Like we don't want to give away too much. we dont want to be solid. We want to rely on our defensive capabilities which is understandable maybe the players they have. I think that, you know, the The space that we have to allow him is the space to evolve, which you possibly he has to He already has right. Yeah. he already has. I mean, that's the marker of, you know, the elite coaches that they do that So there's a world where maybe some of those values change. there's also a world where I could foresee happening is that arrsenal play a little bit more expensively at the beginning of next season And we all start to say U you know, this is great and but then one thing goes wrong like like the villa game and they ease off again, you know, maybe maybe that's how u Maybe that's how Mikoleta thinks you need to play to win the Premier League is try to get that lead early on by playing more risk risky football. and then once you're there, just lock all the risks down and hold on for de life. And I guess in the past that hasn't worked for them, right? They got overtaken by city on a number of occasions. but I think The other thing that's worth saying is he did evolve and he evolved because they didn't win. Yeah. And I think it's much more difficult to evolve when you win. Yeah it'll be interesting to see how that plays out Okay I'll pick up Arteta has sought to harness the power of the Emirates' crowd and turn Arsenal's homeground into a fortress Club have worked closely with supporters groups to improve the atmospheric matches, culminating in some of the most electric nights in the stadium's twenty year history Yes, toom. Yeah, this was the first actual pools that I got baked in. Right. maybe it's worth talking about this because And I don't know I think a lot of people is No London forever U Yeah, you know, people will look at that and they'll say, this is definitely an example of a way of being able to Um, uh again, the marginal gains. The twelfth man. Yeah. And I don't know, I don't know whether or not you think that the narrative is that neat and tidy. I was just, I mean a lot of the criticisms this season have been in the games where they've struggled. I mean, the fans have booed them at times. I know because I've been I've been in this stadium and heard those boos. I know because you just keep saying it on podcasts. Right. But that's kind of and again, that's not that's not to say that anything really about Arsenal other than if you're going to take the okay, the atmosphere was good in certain games. Yeah, you also have to take the well, yeah, the atmosphere was bad in certain games Yeah as well. I think the atmosphere being bad was overblown. I've been I've been in the stadium as well where I feel as though the that yes, the fans were really nervous towards the end. I was in the in theook for the Bournemouth game. Yeah and that was a game where, you know, they were They ended up losing. They went one mill down They've been hurt before, John. Yeah. And I thought the atmosphere relatively speaking was pretty good in that respect, wasn't It wasn't this sort of like monumental sense that the fans had given up immediately. It wasn't toxic. Yeah, it got toxic towards the end. It got toxic towards like the eightieth minute, but then they were too worn down at this point. and sure. City were obviously chasing them hard and you know, that's I think it's fine for fan base to be frustrated given that you know, it felt as though they'd been in strong positions before and they'd just given them back away. But is the issue not though that the Emirates has you know, the controversy of the Emirates has historically been the accusation that it is not a loud stadium or that the fans are not behind the team in the way that they should be. I'm not saying that is the case. I'm simply saying that's something that that's been a popular narrative about Arsenal And in that sense, maybe desespite of fans sometimes booing their own team in a winning season, maybe the atmosphere is improved from what it has historically been. Yeah. And I don't know enough about that to make a comment. I think Stadium atmosphere is like a weird one to talk about anyway. like I think I've been spoiled being a Leeds fan in the stadium that we have right now, which is an old stadium, which is gravely in need of light updating in places. But ye one of the upsides of a couple of things one that we've been out of the league for a while before before we've made our way back in this time around. Obviously there was a period before that as well where we were in for a short period What that meant was that we had an old stadium, which means that you get like people packed together and it's all sort of squeezed in and that you can make a lot of noise in that stadium. The other thing is is that because we hadn't been in the Premier League, we didn't have quite this sort of changing cast of audience members that other big clubs have, right? And that's you know, that's not me dismissing tourist able fandom But it's just the reality is that the only people who were in that stadium were Lee's fans who wanted to be there, which is much easier to make the atmosphere sound good. And so I think I've probably been a little bit spoiled in terms of my expectations of what like good atmosphere in a stadium is. Yeah I think so much of the poor atmosphere stuff just comes down to the fact that you've got these massive stadiums and clubs are moving towards more corporatized versions of like what football fandom looks like. And it doesn't have to be like that as well. I remember I was just looking this up while you were talking, but I remember hearing that when the LA Cippers and their basketball team built their new arena, which is called the I what's it called LA Clippers arena. It's called the Intuit Dome.ice It's a dome in which that name of on your own. Yeah that's true. My Dome clearly not intuiting that name unfortunately. Anyway, I remember they did so specifically with reference to Brusciia Dortman's Vesfalastadion. so I'm reading from the Wikipedia now The arena features a seating section known as the wall, which is fifty one consecutive rows with no suites positioned on the baseline adjacent to the visitor's bench. That would make it hard for you if the suites on the baseline exclusively reserved for Clippers fans, that section. The section is similar to the Yellow Wall at Brusy Dortm's Westia. And the reason they did that is because they wanted to create to recreate the same atmosphere The reason they said, obviously in basketball is very important because the equivalent of the penalty, the free throw happens regularly throughout the game. So the notion I think was we can create an actual twelfth man, in their case sixth man distraction behind the hoop in order to try to put them off. So I feel as though if you're building it with that in mind, it's definitely possible to build cool new stadiums the emphasize sound and the emphasize you know togetherness, it just hasn't happened with a lot of of the big new ones. I guess Spurrs is the nice example of this, right? Because in Spurs they have a cop end in that sense, right? Whereas the stands go all the way back in in an uninterrupted ha as it were. And they again, they've thought about the acoustic properties of the place as well. But they have a mythical cheese room as well. Yeah, that's right. and apparently a go caring track underneath. Really? Yeah apparently part taken of the G carting track, but Again, like there's only so much you can do, right? If you're and s part and parcel of what happens if, you know, football becomes a global game and and people from around the world who can afford to do that are able to make sort of like bucket list trips to the to the UK and watch those games. It is going to impact the atmosphere because atm good atmosphere is something that takes time to build. You have to have fans who are regularly turning up, the same fans are regularly turn in the same seats knowing the same songs and that's the reality of it. And I think that's the big difficulty with modern football is that those conditions have never been less likely, I think, for a lot of big clubs. Yeah, that's fair. I've read three paragraphs. There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature. Discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with all trails. Download the free app today and find your outside The scenes of thousands of fans congregating to welcome the team bus on arrival are emblematic of the transformation. The last time so many supporters assembled on that stretch of the Hornsey Road was in twenty twenty one, when they were protesting against Arsenal's owners and their involvement in the soon scrapped European Super League It's taken time, but those wounds now appear to have healed While Arsenal's success this season has been a collective effort, there is no doubt that Areta is their central protagonist, their frontm, figurehead and standard bearer The club's strategy was contingent on having the right coach in charge w not only with a tactical acumen to lead the team, but who bought into the wider approach I just want to pause here to say I love the term standard bearer because it makes me think of those people in old wars that simply held a flag and didn't actually fight, you know The idea of going into a battle with all metal around your body and a big sword. it's life or death's on the line, isn't it? in those situations? you think tell you what one of our guys or maybe several, don't fight, just hold flags in and amongst the action. And And if they die, someone else has to take the flag up. Is that the ru? Yeah. and if if the other team gets your flag it's hugely embarrassing for. Wow. Crazy really. It makes me always think of the scene at the end of the Mel Gibson film The Patriots. Do remember that film? I've not actually watched the fatri? you not You know what? it's all right? It's very long. It's over three hours long But it's about the American Civil War And Mel Gibson plays the well American named Benjamin something or other. The William Wallace of Americaent He's essentially the Willi Wall of America but he's a fictional character. His name sounds a little bit like he might be a kind of adjacent to the foundounding fathers but There's a big battle at the end. Most of the military tactics in that film are quite interesting as well because it's when you had muskets, right? So a lot of time dedicated to reloading. But because of the honor of men, you'll see, what they would do is they would line up in two straight lines And then they would just take it in turns to shoot at each other, and no one was allowed to move for fear of losing their honor. So you would stand there and your friends next to you would fall if they were hit by bullets and cannon balls would fly past from behind and take off people's legs. and you'd just stand there and wait, you know, I immagine the day they worked out, we could hide behind a rock and shoot from there. The cowardice of the modern war The funniest thing I think is like little druma boys. like my flatmate and I watched our way through the shp Right with Sean Bean makes a lot of appearance. Sean Bean's always never far from bring for analysis For analysis with me, Shean B. That's rather wall. The PrusyZortman's yellow wall Um And the thing that stands out to us was just like the fact they would have like twelve year old boys whose job was just to like beat a rhythm for them to march. Yeah. they sent them out in the front and it's just like, they' just like you're literally you're twelve years old, you're like playing the drum and walking towards oncoming enemy fire. That's it. It's fun. What there's nothing for you at all. Well anyway, at the end of this film, Mel Gibson's in one of those big civil warar battles And he sees oh wouldn't, you know, an American flag on the floor So he picks it Does he not run and dive and gravvel it? Yeah, he dives and grabs it and then then he runs forward and he shouts forward, forward and fre freedom. And then that's the turning point of the battle. because it turns out all that the Americans needed was a bit of spirit in order to come back and defeat the terrible British And wouldn't have been star spangled at that point would it? Well, no, I guess they weren't that many stars on it. They wouldn't certainly wouldn't have been fifty. No. I don't know how many there would' have been. How many states separat separated? It quite spangled with stars on it was just It was dotted. It was star dotted. There you go How about that? Americans always saying as well that they don't teach about the American Civil War in Britain Um yeah they do. But there we go, that was left the Patriot anyway. You know what he was He was a patriot. Now, I'll pick up here It's fitting that Arteta's twenty twenty audience with Stan Cronkke in Denver should have fired the starter's gun for this project That relationship between manager and ownership has been key, providing ourreta with reassurance that the club match his fierce ambition. I know I keep interrupting myself, John, but I have to say, did you see the episode of the Overlap? Gary Neville had an overlap episode that had Artetta And I think it was Josh Kronke under that. I haven't watched it yet. I can't think of another time when a Premier League team has won and then the manager and the owner have gone on a podcast together. Yeah, we talked about this a lot in the last podcast episode which isn't ring for analysis Right rel. There's the one with Jonathan Shan. Yeah, the sort of rising visibility of owners and executive members in the footballing landscape. Well, we're about to touch on that more. I'll pick it up He now enjoys a direct relationship with Josh Cronkey, and the pair maintained regular contact through the final stretch of this season. The younger Cronkey has been supportive of Artetta's plans and has intervened to help push through deals for Rice, Piero Hincaapier and others The Spaniard was left frustrated when Arsenal failed to make a signing in the winter window of twenty twenty five, Oership resolved then that they would redouble their efforts to provide Arteta with what he needed Yes they interesting example of like how much power now Oetter wields. We talked about this I think last last week, right when we were talking about the shift from being a head coach to a manager and this was a necessity for big clubs to have to go through that process if they want to do well. And I guess some of the things that start coming through in this second half are questions that I kind of ask well in the long run, like when does that start to become a bad thing? Because there's always the possibility that you then lose the capacity to have like your other specialist departments influencing decision making as much when they when it basically the buck stops with the manager Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it Okay, picking up. Though A Teta is in alignment with Arsenal's approach, it is his nature to demand more. He's been an agitator and a fire brand, always pushing the club to extend their ambition When the thorny issue of football's financial regulations has reared its head, Areta has urged the club to push the boundaries. As with his tactical work, he's eager to exploit every possible margin Yes, doneon And again, I just wanted to expand on this because again, it's so easy to just be like, oh the genius of our Eetter is that he just micromanages everything right? And he thinks about fine margins and he gets gets the team over the line. But presumably there comes a pointer which That can go too far the wrong way, right? where you're micromanaging too much. And you' so focused on the margins that the maxims Yeah, yeah. the maximum gains start to suffer as well. I don't know what you're talking about, but try to get closer to your microphone as you're speaking. Literally, that was a joke. It was me micromanaging you in a way that was negative, had negative surprisisecause I'm so close to.'re very close to your microph. You see, what I was doing there was I was illustrating the point that you were making, but I was doing it in practice. Yeah It was too subtle for me. It was very subtle. Yeah Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if what do you think about that, because that's just meinking off the top of my head I do wonder whether or not at some point that It's the vital push and pull. You've got to have that. I mean, what's happened here is that we've entered or we are entering the era where the all powerful Miica Leta doesn't necessarily have the same force pushing back against him because as he's now won a Premier League title. If he had as much power as we're understanding now before he won, he definitely has more now that there's evidence and proof of his genius, right? And you know I think that's one of the reasons why it is so rare to witness someone like Alex Ferguson and his longevity Guadiola and again his relative longevity at Manchester City, because when you don't have another kind of equal force pushing back at you and you make all of the decisions yourself, if you're not being held to account by anybody, I'm not saying that's the case with Arteta, but the more power that someone accumulates at the top of an organization like this, the less they are held to account. the more likely it is that you can be stayred off track I. And I think the more important it becomes to be able to delegate. And I think again with both Sir Alex Ferguson and Guardiola, they both had capacity to allow other people to make decisions in certain areas. Yeah. And with Guardiola as well, I think he's just open to the idea that other people will have valuable insights that might go beyond is, which is why he brings in You know I mean we talk about with Ferguson, right? brings in assistant managers who can oversee tactical change. distinct areas. I think Guadiola has done that too. we almost suggest it as though, well, Guadiola comes up with all of his own ideas, but this season, Guardiola brought in Linda's in part because I think he wanted to get that insight as to a very different way that tactically speaking that he would sort of naturally feel, right? The most secure people are never worried to ask for help whichich is why you never hear me asking for anything, John. No I'll just carry on. Yeah Many of his closest collaborators have moved on. The likes of Eddu, Lewis Ao and Ellis have departed. Two of Aretta's trusted assistants, Steve Round and then Carlos CQuestter have also left the club. He remains, he is the constant Yester. I didn't really want to interject here, but again, this is really interesting, right? Because the first half of the piece is all talking about how they achieved all of this change through all of these agents and actors Yeah. And actually what's ended up happening is through time they've dropped away, they've dropped away, dropped away and dropped away. The only constant now is our Tetra. And again, that's part of that process of like the more power that you accrue, the more these people around the sides drop off. Wele them down. Eventually the TFa footballcast will just be me talking to myself Predeessor Wenger frequently speaks of the importance of consistency or stamina in motivation If desire alone is not enough, it must be sustained Arteta is the engine room of that motivation Arsenal the one who stokes and tends to the project's ambition whose uncompromising standards drive everyone to perform better He is the necessary friction that has helped force them over the line He's been the face of this project. No individual arrsenal has faced more criticism over the past six years, and none deserves more praise for delivering For Arteta, winning this Premier League title, beating his mentor Guardiola into second place in the process is the ultimate of indication There's a lovely Dinkus here, John, isn't there? A nice dinkus. I've got a dinkus written in my scripts. Have you. People in the comments keep asking what a dinkus is, but somehow I find it funnier to not explain. I'll pick up after the Dinkus The departure of Edu in november twenty twenty four sent shockwaves through Arsenal His partnership with Artetta was the strategic core of the sporting project, but the need for a new sporting director also provided the club with an opportunity They needed to transition out of that building phase and start winning. As Artetta's power at Arsenal grew, so did his influence on transfers He now needs a closer, someone who could deliver him the squad he desired forormer Atletica Madrid executive Andrea Berta was the man identified to recruit the missing pieces in the manager's jigsaw Yes toon. Yeah, this is interesting because again, it signals the shift in power that Areta has gone through, right? Soust to be clear, so he needs a closer and that means that he's actually the one that's sort of initiating these transfers and then he needs someone to come and close the deal for him. I think so. that's the impression, I guess. So again, that suggests that A lot of the impetus behind the moves that are being made are our tettters. Yeah. And this reminded me very much of what happened with Jurgen Klop when Yorg Smackter came in. Right. And he was a similar thing, right? was He was just the kind of guy who was there to be a sort of fixer for the deals that Klop wanted to do. Right. Incidentally that point him in the right direction guy. Yeah. and I think incidentally this was just before ended up leaving, I think. so U Again, it's just an interesting indicator of the sort of level of power that Artetta now has that you know, this was what we were seeing from Klop in twenty twenty twenty four. Yeah rightight the end of his stint at Liverpool, like Artetta has arrived at the same sort of level. Yeah. Although as we said last week. It seems we're in a stage in football where people are realizing or at least people believe that Okay, have a great system until a person proves themselves and once you've found someone, give them power and cling on and see long can see how long it can drive for, right picking up Arsenal's twenty twenty four twenty five season was ravaged by injuries, and their primary objective afterwards was to reinforce the squad with a formidable degree of depth. That meant persuading Areta to relinquish his ambitions of signing Newcastle striker Alexander Iszak and perhaps even Ebby Leipzig counterpart Benjamin Sheesko There was an acceptance that Arsenal did need a new centre forward, but deals at the financial level needed for those players would have restricted their capacity to also strengthen in other areas Can I interrupt myself to say Did'tenjamin Seskco and Yoores cost virtually the same amount of money? I Th think so, yeah. in the end, it maybe the indication initially was that one would be cheaper than the other? Yeah, And I guess maybe what's happening behind the scenes is like the structuring of the financial payments, which often follows a different ing to what we're talking about. So that might be why it's different. That might be it. but okay Yeah again, this is Its funny isn't? I don't want to necessarily rel litigate the conversations about Victor Oocress and and whether or not they were justified in doing that. And again, Benny Meskco came at Manchester United and was it, you know, was really well managed into the team, I think by by particularly Michael Carrick he wasn't like a starter straight up whereas obviously Arsen probably wanted a starter. It did end up with Kai Habot's getting injured very early on in the season anyway Yeah, I guess the question here is whether or not these deals really worked as well for Arsenal given the rest of their transfer activity, which ye, yeah,'re we're going to go on to now While Champions Liverpool spent big on elite talents in Isac and Flor and Viat Arsenal chose to distribute resources over multiple positions they wanted a complete squad, more than one built around marquee names In the end, they made a total of eight first team signings in that window. There was an emphasis on bringing in players at prime age, ready to contribute immediately. Vikor Yooresh was the man chosen at Centre Forward with an initial cost of just fifty four point eight million pounds Arsenal completed a deal for Martin Zubberendi, the broad terms of which had been hammered out almost a full year prior Keppa Oritha Ballaya arrived from Chelsea and Christian Moscera from Valencia Arsenal opted for Noni Medueque to supplement Saca on the right wing and structured an ingenious deal for himincappie that enabled them to defer payment until this coming summer Now that window was not without controversy Arsenal had initially explored the possibility of keeping Thomas Parte to supplement newcomer Zubimendi at the base of midfield In those negotiations, they sought to include clauses which protected them against the possibility of party being prosecuted In the end, they were unable to reach an agreement and his contract expired at the end of June A matter of days later, he was charged with five counts of rape and one of sexual assault Parte has pleaded not guilty to all charges I'm just interrupting myself to say, I didn't know that. I'm speaking specifically about the line that says in negotiations they sought to include clauses which protected themselves against the possibility of party being prosecuted which is kind of a stunning thing to read given the criticism for continuing to play parte for everything that happened over the last couple of years. The notion that you could get to the stage of last summer and then not only try to make a deal to keep the player, but also negotiate into the contract Clauses that protect yourself from wrongdoing in the circumstance where he's prosecuted That I understand that it's a company And the way that corporations are sometimes structured is in order to like depersonalize decisions that are made, partly so you can get away with stuff like this, partartly so that people in companies don't feel personally responsible for acting in such ways But like that's And I'm not saying that another club wouldn't have done the same thing. So this isn't specifically a criticism of of Arsenal specific as opposed to other teams But like that's pretty fucking horrible Yeah, I think so. I think as well, when we're talking a lot about marginal gains and stuff and that does feel as though that fits in this sort of that sort of decision fits into that belief that we can find edges here that might not be there otherwise, but yeah, it's very it's not nice to read that. No, it isn't nice to read that. And I don't really want to do around either, but also it doesn't feel like the kind of thing I can read aloud on this podcast and then not stop to explore in some way I guess thats this is why the segue into this the window was not without controversy because that's Pretty controversial, I would say. Um, okay pick up and move on from that When versatile attacker Ki Haver suffered a knee injury on the Premier League's opening weekend, Arsenal knew they needed to act Yes Joh Ksind of funny isn't,ough Apparently this window is all about depth And then within the first week of the wind they they had they had an injury and they're like, we probably need to sign another player. That's true. although I feel, you know, to be sympathetic to Arsenal and to play Dvil's advocate for a moment, I feel as though expecting your striker to be injured for a significant amount of time in the first game That's probably that's not totally foreseeable. No, I'm not suggesting they should have foreseen that guy have would be injured. Although they could have. The concept of depth is that if something like that happens, you should have someone waiting in the wings. You don't need the further depth. Yeah. because this is because they'd already bought Yokoresh at this point Okay but And is Gabrielle Chazus injured at this point? Yeah, I think he is. I mean, they obviously had injury issues and that have happened throughout the course of the season. so sure. But yourour point about the narrative is taken, though, yeah.es Okay Berta and that's Andrea Bera, who's the deal closer. Berta initially proposed signing another striker, with Inter's rising star Francesco Pio Esposito, one of the names floated. Instead, they pivoted to sign a different kind of match winner, snatching Eberricze of Crystal Palace away from rivals Tottenam. Arsenal worked tirelessly to complete the necessary paperwork that enabled them to parade E a ahead of the next Premier League fixture against Leeds And justed to interrupt myself, which I've done as many times as you have in this episode. U I mean, is is arguably one of their preeminent league winners, right? Like withithout Es, it's hard to imaginersten winning the Premier League this season. Certainly for the second half, he was instrumental to many of their victories. he scored some very important goals And he played a lot in the position that has been previously dominated by Martin Erdigore while he had injuries and also why while he wasn't match fit. So I can't quite imagine them I can't imagine this Arsenal season without him, whichich is funny that they brought him in You know, as a kind of final panic by almost Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I don't really think of it that way. I think I think as is probably most people would consider a season to be largely a little bit disappointing. I think yeah definitely in the second half came into a bit more because he'd had more time to play with the team bed in and And as you say, he scored some important goals. I mean the all of against sppurs. Yeah. I mean, that's true. that hes sc got a lot against sppurs, but I think they probably would have beat in sppurs without him either way. but What about those saying like, you know, That's interesting you say you said he had somewhat a disappointing season because his face is on everything. like you know, he's He is an emblem of their season. He's, you know, when I think about If I were to make some kind of A social media graphic for Arsenal's victory and I could only pick three players. Eze would be one of them And I feel like okay, whether or not he's been completely tactically instrumental on the pitch or not He is Arsenal, isn't it? Yeahah I guess so. I think this is true with like a lot of the players that Arsenal fans seem to love. I think a big part of it is like the context around them So I think, you know, the same with Del and Rice where like with Declan Rice he was like a very expensive player and a player who they beat Man City to the signing of. So they represent something that's sort bigger than who they are even as players. And I think maybe as a it's not done.s not down. Yeah. that being being able to beat spurs to the signature of because you know, do you remember we did that podcast episode where where we basically were saying, oh, Ezz is going to like I think the line was Spurs are in a one horse race for Ez. And I said in that podcast, if there's any team who could lose a one horse race Spurs. and then two days later, I think was M on a day later he went to Arsenal. So ye I think that also gives us a sort of sense of of relevance but above just the other context. And yeah, he scored some that he's very lovable but sure corners that they score that they scored I think some those things and those goals, Yeahah, I think were were important he feels like the future of the team Yeah. yeah, I think that's fair. and no doubt he will do when when the team sort of builds inevitably what seems to happen with Mealotetter is as he finds out how he wants to use a player eventually. and yeah I'm sure that will. say Okay Um, where was I? I was D me keep interrupting so I've lost I've lost o sent away. Oh here I am While their contracts specialist James King was dealing with the small print, Eze circled the Emirates in a car waiting for the green light In the end, of course, it all worked out The work arsenal undertook last summer has sustained them throughout the season. In mid March, they were still involved in all four competitions When Michel Marino fractured his foot against Manchester United in late January, Arsenal explored potential loan signings They made a late inquiry for Leon Garettsska of Bayer Munich, but ultimately could not find an appropriate candidate and chose to stick with the players that they had The club's broad approach to squad building should not be mistaken for frugality Those eight signings last summer came at a cost of around two hundred fifty million pounds and pushed the limits of what was possible within U AAFA's financial rules Arsenal's owners unlocked the budget to help the club get over the line It was a calculated roll of the dice. Arsenal bet the house on red, and they've won ise money accumulated in the Premier League and by reaching the Champions League final has eased concerns over regulatory Dinkus Dink A very exciting Dinkus. o Ready to experience something new All trails helps you find your next hike whether you're looking for something nearby or planning a trip Read reviews from real people like you, to choose your trail and know what to expect You can also download the map in case service gets spotty Pl and experience your next hike with all trails. The app for exploring the outdoors. Download it today and find your outside. Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a soFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a soFI personal loan. Visit soFI dot com slash stuck to learn more. Loans originated by SFi Bank andA member FDIC Terms and conditions apply NL S six nine six eight nine one I'm so tempt to interrpt myself that I won't I'llry yourself the Dinkus Dink the I've been interrupted by the Dinker? All I was all I was going to say, all it is All is right. All is. is um You know, I'm just imagining a different world where Arsenal didn't win the Premier League, didn't get the final the Champions League and potentially had some, even if minimal financial constraints going into the current summer whilst looking back at the transfer window that they had. I think so much of this But from a fan perspective, and I think James is kind of saying this as well, so much of this is a bit like results biased, lensed, right? Like If they hadn't won the league, which I know that they did. so I don't want Arsenal fans to send me messages saying but they did win the league I'm simply saying if they if they hadn't and it was close run was close and it was close run. Th Asenal fans telling us, oh, they did win the league. They were scared. I know. I seen so many and they and they should be because they you know, of course it makes sense that they would. My point is if they hadn't won the league and if they hadn't made it to the Champions League final I think The review of that transfer window would be a very negative one. I think you'd look back and say, well, Yoareresh wasn't good enough, and that's why we didn't win the leakue because we didn't buy a proper striker. that when Miel Marino was injured, we didn't actually push hard enough to sign someone like L and Gretka, a proven German winner who could do it when he came over here. And great that weve got E but actually like we should be signing messy or something. I know that some fans can be fickle, and I know also that a lot of Arsenal fans will resist to the notion of kind of flowing with the narratives, but winning or not winning the league. It just changes the way that you look at everything. And three points one way three points the other We look back at a window and we say, well, this is completely successful, and this is why it happened And if they didn't win, if they get three points less, we look back at that same window and we go, well, that's why they didn't win. Yeah. I've got arr fanans friends who are like, yeah, we won by seven points in the end. it wasiles we were miles ahead. And it's like, yeah, but if that West hand goal had counted, like and they'll say, yeah, but it didn't, as you say, but like There's the possibility that anything could have happened right? The referee could have refused to change the decision on the field. The referee could have given a penalty for one of the other fouls that happen the other way. Yeah whatever. we don't like there is there's a parallel universe not far away from our own way. ends up being a goal. I think Arsen don't win the league. I think that is that's the level of event happening It's very hard to come back from. It also energizes your opponents in totally in the. that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to win the league. Both of those things can be true. And by the way, right, saying but they did is not a defense against this It just isn't. I know that they did. I know that they did, but you also know that they might not have done. Yeah. okay I agree. And I think I'm going to get loads of comments now from people saying, but they did. But they did. But And I think this is what it comes down to, right is is that you prepare yourself in those transfer windows for a specific approach. And if if that approach hadn't worked out, they hadn' won the league. Yeah. I think there would be there would be there would be an there would have been an argument that actually Dpth wasn't all that was needed. Yeah. there were ceiling razors that were needed as well. And that would have been the next window, right? The next window would have been, okay, we've now got a really great Floor squad whereere we going to strengthen in positions that can make the difference between what happened last season and what's going to happen and happened this season and what will happen next season? And I think's just that's how our brains work as as fans is that we take the outcome and we use that as a backdrop against which to interpret the events in front of them. And you know, it' in the same way that you have optical illusions where you know, you put something on a background that changes the way that it looks. and I don't know, you put those two arrows pointing one way and then the other and the lines look different. That's exactly what we do with with seasons, we look at them and we're like, oh, well, the arrows were pointing this way. So actually the line was shorter than it needed to be. So ye we just play we play games with ourselves Well, it turns out I did interrupt myself. You did. It was a dinkus though. It was a dinker so I'll let you off. Okay Arsenal's manager and squad appear to have arrived at maturity together The likes of Rice, Gabrielle and Rya have produced outstanding individual seasons But this team's strength has been in the collective There's been an evolution from our Teta over the season He's embraced his instincts, trusting his gut with big calls such as the reintegration of Mes Lewis Skelly. In the final weeks of the campaign, Louis Skeully has transitioned from being third choice left back to first choice central midfielder. Areta has trusted youth in big moments, fielding sixteen year old Max Dowman twelve times across the campaign Dowman's spectacular goal against Everton in March helped to take Arsenal ten points clear on one of the most euphoric nights of their season While many of his more senior teammates stayed on at the Emirates that Saturday evening to watch City's subsequent one All drawer at West Ham, Dahman went home to see it from the comfort of his sofa with friends and family The impact of teenagers Dowman and Lewis Skelly are a testament to Arsenals's Academy's continued productivity This summer sees Pair Metasaka step down as its manager, bringing an end to a partnership with Arteta that stems back to them joining the club's players on Transfer Deadline Day in august twenty eleven The addition of former Argentina International Gabadel Aner, a close friend over many years as assistant coach, has provided Arteta with an additional sounding board and pressure valve. The pair have enjoyed post match meals with family and friends, including at La Patagonia, an Argentine restaurant in North London Yes, John, H you been there U no, I've not no not I just wonded So was was Ainer and Artata were they together at PSG? I don't know we' going to have to look weir potential friendship Otherwise. Yes, they first met at PSG in two thousand one under the management of Louis Fernandez Fernanda said, this is in the BBC, Fernanda said, they were great boys. That's nice que, isn't it It was a pleasure to manage them. That sounds like a school reporer. There there you go.'s funny Have you been to Patagonia and nah But bet they do nice steaks at an Argentine restaurant. I'm a vegetarian, so I don't go anywhere that's like just mainly meats. Yeah. I can't imagine that Argentina has a huge Argentina, Uruguay, France French restaurants, at least in London, they're all just meat based, that iss it. Oh, you get a crep. You get a nice crep. What are your thoughts on Escargo. I don't know what that is. That's snails. Oh, well, they're meat technically. Are they? They're slight and then the slight family. I do eat fish yeah. which you eat fish. so I'm a Pescatarian technically. Yeah. Fish aren't real, snails are real. Snails live on land and some li in the sea. Maybe I could eat se. What about stocks? They live at sea? No, they don't. Well, in the water anyway. They definitely don'tve at sea. What about seagulls Look again, they don't live the water.lease in the name Pick a thing that lives in the water. But I'm trying to think of a bird type thing that lives in the water. But why would I don't eat birds? Yeah, because but you're saying that the thing that stops you from eating allows you to eat fish is that they're water based. so I'm trying to think of water that eat they exclusively live in water Eels? I don't actually eat seafood or octopus or like e Basically I only eat a little bit of white fish and that's because in the nineties my mother who was a vegetarian, was very worried still that young children needed some kind of meat in order to grow which I don't think is necessarily true. They just need protein. They just need protein. What's a big opinion if you didn't meat when you were growing up? Well, the joke, of course, is, as an adult, I've found that the easiest way to grow quickly is to eat lots of chocolate. But they didn't give me that as a child, did they? Different types of growing, of course. Arteta has learned when to let the players take matters into their own hands. When Arsenal surrendered a two goal lead to draw too all at relegation bound wolves in February, according to sources close to the squad, it was the voices of Rice and Erdigor that rang loudest in the away dressing room When Arsenal were beaten by City at the Ettyad in April, Rice's on field cry of It's not done was echoed behind the scenes Arteta has understood when to let leaders lead Injuries have continued to plague Arsenal. With so much at stake, the tension between the coaching staff and medical department has been one of the major subplots of their season Multiple sources, close to the situation suggest that at one stage the disputes verged upon quote civil war Spanish physio, Jaquin Isido, a long time. I actually don't know how to say his name Johacin Jacquin Isido or Aado, Isido, maybe Anyway, a long term at Aretter Associate was brought in to help review Arsenal's processes around player fitness and injuries Now that's funny. That's interrupting myself again to say, I'm trying to port that onto like this workplace or other places where I've worked to imagine if the boss man brought in one of his mates to because he didn't trust what you were doing. That would be quite annoying, wouldn't it? If you kept telling him, No, this is the way you're supposed to do it, and he goes, well I'm going to bring in my friend Richard just to double check that that's true Yeah, and that's another indication of powerower the power a little bit. yeah The squad the club have built, with Bertta's refinements added to Eddu's foundations, has sustained them Artetta's training methods remain intense, but he's also recognized the importance of rest, granting the players two days off several times during the frenetic run in. And Arsenal's players have been wary of jinxing a potential title In March, Ricciardo Califiore refused to sign a picture of the Premier League trophy When they played a way to West Ham at the London Stadium in early May, television broadcasters wanted the Champions trophy at pitchide, and Arsenal preferred it to be out of sight They will wait to receive it at Sellhurst Park on Sunday when it's rightfully there. Of course that's already happened. That's in the past now, John. It has happened. they've received it. You know what's now Dinkus. It's a Denus. ith the Premier League settled, Arsenal's focus is now trained on the Champions League final against Paris Eenturean on the thirtieth of May. That's today, by the way, if you're listening to this podcast on the day of release They have the opportunity tote I love the idea that someone is listening to this and going, Oh, I didn't know Oh. Someone's this deep into part two and they weren't aware that it was today. They have the opportunity to complete a historic double. And also win their first trophy in the men's version of European Football's Premier Club competition But what comes after that Arsenal has been built to win, having now done so, what follows? Well while many of the architects of their rise have moved on, in the background, the work continues Richard Garlick, who worked alongside Edu on much of the early recruitment work, now leads the club as Chief executive Garlic and Chief commercial Officer Juliette Slott are overseeing record revenues, allowing the club to keep investing in the team. Arsenal are determined to remain compliant with financial rules and ensure their success is responsibly and sustainably attained King Garlics. I've accidentally read that wrong, John. It says King Garlic successor, but I've read king garlic. King Garlic. King Garlic. Brother I believe. Yeah. The good thing about king garlic, vampires never go anywhere near him. But he's very stinky. That would be a great superhero, King garlic. Too much of king garlic it ruins a meal But just the right amount makes the meal Not enough king garlic King, garlic successor as director of football. was sort of onions as garlic successor. Onions, Garlic successor. Anyway, that's King. Wh who's King? Do weent James King? Oh James King Contract specialist is it Is it James King? I don't know. I can't rem it is James King. It's King Garlic, Anway. King, Garlic's successor as director of foootball operations, is credited with vital work in securing the long term futures of prospects such as Dowman and Marley Salmon. Also sixteen Josh Kronky now takes a more prominent role and has a place on the football leadership team. After adopting a short term view to expedite winning the title, Arsenal are now stepping up their efforts to recruit the next generation of stars who will help them to remain competitive over the coming years The signing of sixteen year old Ecuadorian twins, Edin and Holga Quinttero Both tracked by Rail Madrid is a statement of intent They also continue to invest in their football intelligence unit, now led by Mark Curtis He has overseen an internal revamp of Arsenal's analytics department and increased the club's presence in South American markets. Arteta and Beta, meanwhile, are pushing for substantial investment at the first team level With many of England's other big clubs entering a period of transition, they feel now is the moment to capitalise. Qote, Wherever this month of May takes us, there will be no standing still when the season ends, wrote Stan and Josh Cronkey in their program notes for the season's final home match against Burnley We are always forward in our approach. taking the learnings as we go and relentless in the pursuit of progress. We remain focused on raising the standard creating the best possible environment for our players and people to succeed elevating the unity that exists between club and community The win window the club's analysts projected back in twenty twenty remains open This season's title has been secured The mission now is to deliver sustained success There we go. That's the end of the piece there. Of course, it was written by James Mc Nicholas, magnificently so U any closing thoughts, John? No, I guess I was just interested in this idea of sustained success because I don't really know what to expect P me feels as though I expected Arsen to win the league last season and they didn't so And Liverpool came out of nowhere and won it. And I wonder whether or not that's indicative of what we will see is that you know, another team just could could just merge out of the Bournouth background. Maraco Ros' Bornmouth is just going to keep surging. Yeah, maybe But yeah, I'm kind of interested to see what this ends up looking like because Yeah, the win window, which is what we started off talking about right at the beginning of the last episode was this idea that you know, ask we're aiming for to be in the right place at the right time to pick up a tile and that's what they've done But we have had a lot of conversation about whether or not that almost pushes you into a into a kind of risky approach of assuming other teams aren't going to aren't going to get there. So it'll be interesting to see how Arsenal compare to I don't know I'minking like Chelsea signing Chabi Alonzso. I feel as though Chelsea' still got a lot of work to do, but Could they actually mount a really quick turnaround challenge? Manchester United climbed right off the table Are they going to be able to have a good window and actually inv involve themselves in a title race.ike the it could be the case that the world that we are looking at now is less of a sort of win window world and more of a just teams maybe it's just one big win window. Maybe every team is looking at it and the requirements for success are so much narrower than they used to be before, you know, when when Gadola was dominating everything. Yeah maybe to see what that world looks like. Do you know what I'm interested in? Chocolate? Well, that yeah But also I'm interested in the idea that Ar Tettter feels like Arsenal. I mean, they feel that there right now they feel like the same thing, right I can't imagine Ar Teta managing a different club But that's not to say that he wouldn't want to do that at some point, right? He's been there for such a long time. It's very rare, I think, for managers who are on the up still to have success so early on and be at the same club for such a long time. He's been there for six, six years now. it's a really long time for any manager to be at any football club. and that makes it feel as though, well he's just going to have to be there for twenty years. You know, Arsenal are at the top of the game already they' winning the Premi League they're the Champions League final. Where else could you go But he is a Spanish manager and there are two massive Spanish teams that are perennially looking for new managers And it's just a thought that had never occurred to genuinely had never occurred to me before But if they win the Champions League final tonight They won Premier League I'm notggesting our Tita will leave this summer Let's say they don't win the Premier League next year, or you know, this version of the Premier League that we've just discussed is one where a team can come from third to win or a team can come back from second to win and where you don't have this notion of prolonged success in the way that Guateiolas's Manchester City had How many years of that do you think Artetta does before thinking I'm young still I want maybe another challenge as well. I mean its first Senior management job. It's hard to think of him being anywhere else It is as But isn't he the perfect Ramadrid manager Yeah, but was he not a Barcelona player? Is he not the perfect Barcelona man? Yeah, I mean, I guess so I suppose the complexifying factor here now is that it just feels like La Liga is not where coaches really want to go even if the players still kind of do. Yeah. So it could just be the case that he views this as like Wves Vincent companies in the Bayne Munich job. Yeah. Luc ennriquees are the PSG job. So this is endndgame. So this is Yeahah, I think this is him. That's he'll be here until one of those potentially one of those jobs opens up and he decides to do something different. But you could in some ways, it's easier to imagine him being the arsenal manager for the next twenty years. Right, But yeah, I think so. but at the same time, like if that world that we're talking about doesn't actually materialize if this doesn't turn into Dynasty. If they don't win anything next season and the season after, which is, you know, it seems fairly unlikely from where we're standing. But it's possible. if that doesn't happen, then what will his legacy be? Will it be they were in the right place at the right time to pick up this trophy Maybe it will be of those managers who go on to great success elsewhere and then this is the job that you think, oh, that's the one that really defined them. It's a bit I'm not saying that Arsenal are the same as Aberdeen, but when you talk about Ferguson, the thing that people always say that set him apart from other people is he oneon that the Scottish division Aberdeen, which just didn't didn't really happen. And that was the last person to do that with a team that isn't Celtical Rangers, right? So despite having twenty six years at Manchester United and winning more trophies than anyone can count