Young Women and the Crisis of Adulthood

A new type of online influencer just dropped or so we're told, loneliness influencers. These young women don't brag about their vacations or their possessions. They've gained big followings just from posting videos about being alone. Being a content creator is so fucking Lonely. Are you lonely? I'm lonely sometimes, not quite like that. No, these videos are often much quieter and they're captioned with things like POV You're a single and child free girl that has no friends and lives alone, and it's a Saturday night. POV, you live alone in NYC and have no friends. So this is how you spend your night after work They say they aren't unhappy. It's been two years since I last had a friend or any romantic feelings for anyone, and I've never been happier. H. Coming up on today, explained. We're gonna ask her some questions Ppport for this show today comes from Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. 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Go to fetch com slash save right now for your free quote. That's fetchpet. com slash save T today' way It in the st it way . Lana Isa is twenty four years old. She has a good job in software sales and she lives in and works from a very nice apartment somewhere in Canada. In her videos online, she spends a lot of time by herself. Now this is something that she's used to. In elementary school, I was always like, I was never one of the more popular kids antisocial, like I definitely try to talk to the other kids, but I think I always had my own little interests and I was always a really big reader, so I would like sit in the library and like read or whatever. But I find that like the kid that would always run away and read in a corner was never really the most. I guess it was the most accepted hobby. So she did the thing in high school where she tried to be less of a reader, LOL and more of a cool girl, but she felt like she was faking it. But I think I kind of ended up in an area where you would make surface level friends that don't really like you for who you are because you're pretending to be someone you're not. And I think that those type of experiences led me to just kind of be someone that really enjoys their time alone And yeah, just like generally a girl enjoying her life. Now this girl enjoying her life is being called a loneliness influencer. In her videos, she posts about being single and child free and having no friends. Lenna, what am I going to be seeing when I watch one of your videos just generally a normal night in my life. I think when I first started filming these videos, I had no intention of making it like an aesthetic vlog or anything like that. I really wanted to kind of convey A normal life of somebody that doesn't have big, great fun social life. So I wanted to just kind of show something a little bit different. Like what does a life look like as someone that doesn't really have this great big social life is not really interested in dating generenerally prefers night's in So If you were to watch a Friday night in my life, you'd essentially just watch a girl Enjoying her peace. I'm wearing pajamas and I'm about to go get ice cream for dinner. I'm already having an early night, so I figured I would bake a cake because why not And you're embracing it. You're not saying, I'm twenty four, I'm single. I don't have friends to hang out with tonight And I feel wretched. You're saying And I'm happy about it That's exactly it. and that's exactly what I was That's the goal of it. When I initially started making these videos and I kind of was like formatting these titles and like how I wanted to look, I was like, I really want the title of the video to kind of like wham bam bam of like a bunch of things that I don't have. So people think that they're about to watch this like very sad routine of somebody that like is not enjoying their life Life withith no friendriends, no kids, no marriage. I left my apartment this week. Life with no friendriends, no kids, no marriage, weight gain, feeling off, cooking and eating my cravings. Life withith no friendriends, no kids, no marriage, how I ended up like this throughout the video, I like always try to highlight the things that I'm really enjoying and like how peaceful it is. I know what I've learned, I know what I've been through. I have a very strong understanding of how obviously all of that has correlated into who I am today. And I'm currently at peace, I'm happy with my life, I'm happy with what I'm working on. It was always like a little play on like the expectation. of how people might feel if they're single and live alone and don't have a great big social life versus like my actual reality, which is like, I like this And from the response that I've gotten, especially from women, there's a lot of like minded people out there that Also like this life, you know? Yeah, you have something like two hundred thousand followers, which is a lot of people watching what you do What if you heard from people? Why do you think you're growing I think there's definitely two types of viewers. I kind of noted like when I started these videos, I had no idea who I would like what type of audience I would kind of cater to. I actually thought I would get like Girls in their twenties who also don't out of friends, like that's really what I thought my audience would be, but it actually grew into something a lot cooler and just like a lot of differentere lifestyles, like I have viewers that You know, are married and have families, but think this is so fun and like relaxing because it makes them think of what their life was like before. And they love their family and their current lives, but they also love their previous life, right? Which is the goal. L I think you should try to make the most of every stage of your life and I really like those type of viewers. And then there's also the women who live similar lifestyles and love the representation or they love seeing I'll have like a millennial or like a little bit older audience base that is like really happy to see the younger generation kind of embracing this foocusing on yourself, prioritizing yourself, your career, your goals over relationships, especially romantic relationships and just like finding yourself, and I I seize like so much knowledge, like a wealth of knowledge in those women and I love it when they leave comments about their life stories or like what they experience to lead them to this and how they're so happy to see that like the newer or like not the newer, but current generations kind of learn these lessons without going through like the I guess the big fallout, you know what I mean? Yeah Yeah, it's been very cool to see the different type of people that kind of watch these type of videos. Do you respond to people who leave comments on your? on your videos? I don't respond to as many people as I'd want to. I try to respond to like questions or, you know, I like comments that are like very very descriptive and like share like a compassionate story about their life that I truly like feel and resonate with. But I draw like a pretty serious line with like how much time I'm spending scrolling through social media. That is a very like I'm sure this will lead into your next question, but do I feel like my social life is getting fulfilled by social media? The answer to that question is no. I do not feel like my social life is getting fulfilled by social media because the moment I close my phone My apartment's quiet, I'm still alone And because I had gotten to such a point where I was at like so much peace in my life when I started filming these videos. I almost felt like reading way too many opinions would Drupt my peace a little bit I think that my creativity and like Just like generally, my life thrives a little bit more when I spend a little bit less time on social media. so I don't have the time to respond to everybody no Okay, so online is not a satisfying social life. What is your social life then I'm not saying it's not a satfying social life, I'm saying that it doesn't replace what a social life would be. Ah, okay Okay. And I think that's kind of the accusation or peopleople's takew away from my videos is they're like, will you, you know get these type of, you're putting your life out there,re getting a bunch of responses on it. That's probably replacing a social life for you. But I spent two years alone before I ever filmed a video Reading comments is not the same thing as having people around you. You know what I mean? I'm not a hundred percent opposed to like making friends or anything like that ever again. It's more so like I just went through like some hard times and obviously I was trying to find myself. I didn't want to go through hard times and then jump into other friendships where I feel like I'm doing the same thing of pretending to be someone I'm not and accepting treatment that I don't think you know, is aligned with what I'm looking for and I would be open to making friends again in the future was just about like finding myself and enjoying my life and making sure that those friends that I find in the future are a hundred percent right for me and I'm right for them and we actually fulfill each other's lives instead of brringing any negativity or anything like that to each other So it's basically just spending, a lot of time by myself. I have a really close relationship with my family and but I don't rely on them for social Inaction, I just like enjoy speaking to my family and I would in any way, but just making the most of my life alone until I meet the right people A lot of what you're showing in your videos does not seem all that I mean, I'm not one of the people that looks at your videos and thinks, oh my goodness, how awful There was one there is one thing about your video so that made me incredibly sad. You went to see the movie Obsession by yourself. Obsession is the scariest movie ever made. Bear, I love you so, so, so, so, so I don't think I could live without you I tried to crawl into my friend's body. I got so scared watching that movie and you're sitting there in a theater and you're like white knuckling it, I'm imagining alone. A there So that was a moment for me where I'm like, this girl needs a friend. Are there moments for you where you're like, I really I really wish I had had a friend there. I really do need to go out and meet someone, so I don't have to watch obsession alone You know what? in the theater was like actually fine. I found that like, it was such a full theater and there was like so much like so many people were being like funny. L nobody was being annoying, but there was a lot of like reactions and like it was very funny, so it felt interactive. I will say like when I left, it would have been fun debrief when I just watched with people because I was like, oh my God, was so that was so creepy. Like I have actually seen a lot of horror movies in my life. I was not expecting that to be that genuinely creepy So yeah, I get what you're saying. I wouldn't say that was one of those instances where I truly felt like, I wish there was someone else here, but I get what you're saying. It would' have been cool if there were people around me that I could chat with There are moments, yeah. like sometimes like I live in a lake town and like sometimes I'll like drive downtown on like a nice beautiful Saturday night or something. Like I mentioned earlier, patios are full. I'm like that would be cool, you know? But those are just like fleeting moments typically. And I think if I got to the point where I was genuinely having those thoughts very, very often and like feeling so ready to like share experiences and moments with other people, I would put the effort into finding friends. I'm not saying it'll be easy I just haven't gotten to that point yet and I don't know if I will I never try to say this is the way it is and it'll be like this forever. but I'm okay right now, you know? She is Lanna Issa. She's been called a loneliness influencer. Our next guest has written about these young women and they are mostly women, and she says, this is part of a broader problem So before for to explain comes from ShhipSation. AI is only as smart as what you put into it, and the breakthroughs, the ones that actually make your life easier only happen when the AI is built for exactly what you need. Shhipstation's AI isn't a general purpose tool. It's specialized and trained on decades of real shipping data and billions of actual orders. ShhipSation is an end to end order fulfillment platform for e commerce ShhipStation adapts to your unique business, letting you know when stock is low, recommending the best carrier selections and rates and automating tasks to save you time. 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I'm a staff writer for the Atlantic In the first half of the show, we talked to a young woman who has made a name for herself as a loneliness influencer. I know that you've written about this trend. We asked her what she thinks is going on. You kind of took a three thousand foot perspective. What do you think is going on here Yeah, I mean, I think sort of my first impulse when I heard about this kind of genre of video that people are watching is You know, that there's a lot of people spending a ton of time alone. We've heard a lot of people talk about, you know, loneliness epidemics. doctor Viveig Murthy, the US surgeon general, says loneliness is an epidemic. It can have profound effects on mental health as well as heart disease, stroke and dementia. Social isolation can be as deadly as smoking up to fifteen cigarettes a day So I thought maybe people were getting sort of social connection through these videos from a safe distance rather than spending time in person with people And I think, you know maybe there's some of that going on, but I also realized as I was lookingoo through these videos and reading all the comments that A lot of the people commenting, you seemed to have a lot going on in their lives socially, so much so that you know, they were sort of busy and exhausted and burned out, ovextended. For some people, the appeal was actually in kind of the fantasy of it. like in the way that some people would you know look at influencers posting about these fabulous exotic vacations they can afford to take. My husband is bored without me and always wants me around On the other hand absolutely love my time without him. As someone with a husband and two kids in a crazy busy life Thank you for sharing your calm and quiet life. It's a needed break from the chaos of my life you know, a lot of People have a very complicated relationship to solitude. It's definitely true there's a lot of people spending a ton of time alone these days and you know people partying less and ordering in more. But also you know, people are working long hours, a lot of people taking care of family members without much help Many people are sort of torn between these needs for social connection and solitude People are looking at the loneliness influencers and thinking, wow, I wish I had a Friday night to myself once in a while with nothing to do. that does that mean that this is perhaps not as sad as it appears on its face Yeah, you know, I don't think it's all sad. I think I mean, my heart goes out to people who are needing more solitude as well as more social connection. I think most people probably don't have the perfect balance and I can relate to that myself. You know, I feel like I either have too many plans too much going on or not enough. So you know, I think it's not necessarily all happy, but I do think it doesn't mean that there are just so many people out there who are only getting social connection through these videos. L I think there's something a little more complicated going on It's worth noting that most of these influencers are women, young women. And the reason that we wanted to talk to you is because you have written about a kind of dovetailing situation where we understand in the US now, men to be in crisis. We've all heard about the male loneliness crisis, men's achievements in education college graduation, men not being the bread winners anymore You wrote a very interesting piece that basically said, actually women are in crisis as well. Yeah. So I mean, as you're saying, I've just been hearing so much about men and especially young men being in crisis. And I think there's a lot of reasons, you know we should take that seriously. and I do, but I felt like in those conversations young women were kind of being flattened into just like a comparison point where you know, instead of people talking about how On some measures, young men are struggling more than they used to. It kind of got twisted into young men are struggling more than women. And in that kind of conversation, women become like this sort of symbol for flourishing there' kind of this image of like the thriving girl boss, you know, the the one who is going to college, graduating college, entering the workforce on these conventional measures of success, you know, doing so well. If you actually look at some of these statistics, you young women are struggling a lot on a lot of these measures and in some cases, more than young men. And so I don't think it needs to be a suffering competition, but I did think like part of the story was not kind of coming through In what ways are women struggling? tellell me about it Women have for a long time reported depression and anxiety at higher rates than men. That is, you know, getting worse, it seems like mental health on a lot of different measures, different kinds of stress and distress and suicidality, you know, young women are Reporting that at higher and higher rates, seems to be getting worse over time but it turns out that women actually attempt suicide at higher rates than men do on average. And the reason that mormen die of suicide is that they're more likely to use lethal means such as firearms I think a lot of times This conversation, it really revolves around college attendance rates. and women are attending and graduating college at higher rates than men. But women with a bachelor's degree still makes less than a man with a bachelor's degree on average within the same field of study U, so, you know, I when I talk to for the story researchers and therapists, you know, I heard that a lot of young women are kind of in for a rude awakening when they graduate from school, they've kind of been in this bubble where they did feel like they could grow and thrive and they were taken seriously. But you know that doesn't last for a very long time for most people. And then you know you go out into the real world where you know sexism is still very real and a lot of women are working in you know workplaces where they realize they're not taken seriously or the people around them who are in positions of power are all men, I think that's a difficult realization. basased on everything you've just said Both men and women are struggling. If you look at the metrics, it isn't about the metrics. If you look at suicidality, both groups having trouble, education, both groups having trouble. Why if women and men are both in crisis? Arguably we can use this term, whyy did men pull focus? Women, I think,, as an overall population tend to be like a fairly high functioning one in this narrative I talked to someone who had trained as a medical sociologist and she told me a saying that they used to use in this field, which was men die quicker, but women are sicker., whichich in that context meant that women are more likely to endure a lot of chronic illnesses and to sort of soldier on with their pain unnoticed And we might not be taking that as seriously because I think, you know, the idea that women are struggling isn't necessarily a new one or a super surprising one to a lot of people. I think men having a hard time is kind of it's more of a news story, you know And we have become kind of a nerd to women's distress in this way. Hmm There is I think there's a lot of hope to be found in the interventions on behalf of men. I really do There's also something a bit grim about you saying we sort of expect women to have a hard time and therefore it's less of a news story. And I believe you, I really do, but I wonder when you, as you found yourself covering this, where do you find the hope do think people are thinking about really important issues when it comes to young adults in particular And I am heartened that we're talking about you this age group a lot. I think there's been a lot of concern lately about like Gen Z and