Addressing Controversies and Future Outlook

Summer twenty twenty six has it all. World Cup, state fair, heat dome, Empire state Building couple. Yeah, what's all the hooppla going on over there? T genius is climb to the top of the empire state builduilding, the top of the spire. Oh, that's awesome. And across the country, Democratic socialists are on the march. Three big primary wins for DSA candidates in New York City, The mayor's race in Washington, DC A shocker of a primary win in Colorado earlier this week. We Were those voouellas there at the end? I think those are airorns. Airporns, okay, than. Now Kamala is reaching out to Zoron and AOC is endorsing Abdul al Sayid in Michigan, and David Duke is endorsing Daria Lisa's tweets. And if you're confused about hot socialist summer, boy, do we have a show for you? What the DSA wants and why it won't settle coming up on todayoday Explained Recommendations can be amazing. I mean, maybe someone recommended that TV show you've been obsessed with lately. 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Use us directed This is todayoday Explained Will Staken, National politics correspondent for Politico. The DSA feels like a big deal right now. What's going on I keep hearing it's DSA summer, which seems to be the trend at least online And yeah, I mean, DSA is coming off Tuesday night, which was Maybe their biggest kind of win of the primary season so far with Mela Kios You know, knocking off a nearly thirty year incumbent in Dette Aes about ge But it's kind of been like a string of victories you've seen over the past few months where starting a few months ago where Chris Rabb in Pennsylvania had a big win. and then that kind of transitioned into a week ago where these candidates in New York kind of shocking the world and really putting the stamp on the primary season for Democrats hasting even incumbents. Tonight, we haven't just won an election. We have declared that this movement is durable don't we accept the politics that throws scraps at us. I should be grateful for that really kind of showing the power of what the left flank of the party is looking to flex in this primary season. And I think the question is moving forward was how far outside of kind of like places like New York City can this leftist insurgent, how much success can they actually have? At least in Denver a huge showing where, like I said, a thirty year incumbent was just, you know, kicked out of Congress. What does the DSA want? What is their platform? What do they believe? What the what are their main talking points? Yeah, I think their platform in terms of policy, you know, is maybe not going to surprise folks. These are deemocratic socialists. so they want Medicare for all. they really push for strong unions and labor rights, They push for affordable housing. But I think one thing that's really resonating with folks that I talk to is their stance, their pro Palestinian rights stance, their opposition to U.S. military aid to Israel. I will continue to call for Palestinian liberation We will stand up the genocide, we refuse to abide by apartheid and we will use our money to lives here instead of destroy them abroad genocide and I think those are kind of the big platforms and also just like I said, a larger affordability. When you talk to DSA candidates or members, a lot of what you hear is they want to put the working class forward. will we except less than regpect seat at the table that We know that no matter where you live, working people are struggling with the cost of living crisis. And in each of these campaigns and each of these candidacies, I see champions who would not only be partners of our affordability agenda in Washington but also help to lead our party in a new direction where we understand that at the heart of everything we do must be the dignity of working class people that for too long have been in the rear view mirror of the Democratic Party And I think it's not only just a policy, but it's also the way it's wrapped in this annti establishment fighter brand Ideological is the DSA. We keep hearing this term sewer socialism, and I think that suggests something about the things that they want to get done, maybe versus the things that they believe. But how ideological is this group If you talk to them, I think they're very ideological policy forward. They want to get these You know, not only do they want to get these policies enacted, but I think they believe in the long game when you talk to them. They understand that it's about moving the Overton window You know, in terms of are they ideological They also know that they are working with a little bit of house money now because of how disliked and in the gutter the Democratic brand largely is right now. And I think while you see folks like on the right using the fact that these are DSA candidates and that's socialism and, you know, using that as thinking it's going to, you know hurt them. They use the word social Democrat because it sounds so nice, but It's really communism you're talking about. Okay, here' just a sample of what they're about They put this on paper. They're saying the quiet things out loud. abolish the electoral college replace the two party system with a multi partarty democracy. In a primary, I think they wear that as a badge of honor. They get to point at the establishment Democrats and say, yeah, I'm not. with Joakim Jeffrees, I am not an establishment Democrat. And, you know, that helps them. It gives them a little bit of street cred at least in a primary. We'll have to see how that plays out in a general election, obviously in some of these closer Batagum states. But right now, I mean, is a it is a brand that's both policy and the fact that it's, you know you know running against the Democratic brand, which is in the gutter for a lot of folks, I think that's what they see as a plus. What I think you're going to see is while You might not see DSA candidates in places like You know purple or especially red states I think you're going to see a lot of candidates mimicking that fighter anti establishment style as much as possible, which is clearly there's so much hunger at least in Democratic primary for that Yeah, we heard this week or we saw some reporting this week that Kamala Harris has reached out to Zohan Mamdani, indicating that she at least is interested in what he and his have going on. But it's still notable that some of these DSA candidates are being criticized by both mainstream Democrats and Republicans. James Carvill said the other day, know more or less, he doesn't want them in his tent. And I think that came down to some tweets The New York winner, Daria Liza Avila Chevalier. She has attacked interracial relationships in the American flag Lady, I ain't in the same party as you. I'm sorry They I guess not. actually do think It's time for Democrats to talk the S word. Sisem I really do. What do you make of their ability to Polarize. In a primary, I think they like that. You know, I think they want to polarize people that especially the old guard of folks that had been telling, especially younger voters for so long Wait your turn, donon't be so loud, Don't go so far as Medicare for all I think they number one, that's part of what they want to do. They want to like you know, fight back against those kinds of folks. They look at they look at the Kama Harris campaign. And when I'm talking to these kinds of candidates and these kinds of voters and folks on the ground and surrogates, They were completely turned off by the Kala Harris campaign. The Kala Harris campaign that embraced Liz Cheney that embraced, you know, a lot of folks that for the left, flank of the base would never want to be associated with in order to broaden the tent, sure. I mean, that's what they were doing to try to win the election. But for them, I think they felt like they weren't getting Kala Harris' ear in the Democratic Party's ear in terms of major issues like Israel or Medicare for all or really wanting to push her to the left And so I think right now, they want to kind of throw a Maltalf cocktail into the party and just say, we're blowing this up. And so if it's going to ruffle feathers, so be it I think a big test for this movement is going to be Michigan, the Michigan Senate race with withith Abdul Saed, I think that is going to be a huge test for where this insurgent energy can go. We need Democrats who are willing to take the flight to Donald Trump, who are willing to take that created nowble Ch So you reported that the DSA has ambitions to run a candidate in the twenty twenty eight primary. Tell me about the is that candidate chosen yet? Do we know who it is? and they how are they trying to figure this out They view twenty twenty eight the presidency as like a gigantic opportunity. They They don't play cute They' straight up saying, like, you work fine. We're looking for a candidate right now. And I think they really see twenty twenty eight on the backs of Mamdani's rise with Bernie Sanders, with the potential of AOC presidential run, they view that as a huge opportunity. And what they're doing right now is DSA's actually They're sending hundreds of surveys out to all their members across the country, surveying them, asking them, who should DSA endorse? What are you looking for in a candidate? you know, what are the things that you want that are deal breakers and And they're going to collect all those I'm I'm hearing it's going to be like potentially hundreds of thousands of pages of research, which seems very on brand for them, maybe. And I think they're going to put that all together and in September come to a decision and see who they're going to endorse And another thing that's kindind of bittersweet when when I talked to them music, they found this kind of gem and and Zoran Mandani who they view and I think a lot of people view as kind of a like once in a lifetime political generational talent And he can't run for president. I noticed that you're turning thirty five on, right? A few months. So you now hit one of the constitutional requirements to run for president. But there's another one that says you have to be a natural born citizen. you were not born here. Yes. But do you think that's That's something that should be changed in the Constitution. We take an amendment, but do you think that we should change that No, I think the Constitution looks good the way it is. J the way it is. J the way it is. I'm very excited to focus on New York City. But thank you for reminding me of my upcoming upcoming.' five years old. thirty five years old. is, sir. And so I imagine he will be deeply involved in finding out who that person is U, but also campaigning for them It's not going to be Mum Dnie. And when I was talking to the DSA members, they were even saying like, you know, they laugh and there's like an ongoing joke inside DSA where they're like, we should just run Mum Donnie anyways. Like it's just cause a constitutional crisis and just see what happens. And one of the DSA chair was like I think people are joking, but I also think a lot of people aren't really joking Obviously I don't think that's going gonna to happen, but to the point of like trying to find someone, that work's already being done Politicoes will staken. When we come back, we're going straight to the source. A DSA co chair joins me to talk about policy, ideals and reality, bad tweets, Israel, and twenty twenty eight Support for the show comes from Chime, dingong. Chime is changing the way people bank by offering rewarding fee free banking. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. and they have thousands of fee free ATM's because you shouldn't pay to get your own money. 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I think they see their wages stagnating. while inflation continues to go up and cost of living continues to go up And I think that has people really on edge. but I also think that they're looking for answers and for solutions and for things that are actually going to change their lives for the better. When we talk about expanding child care for all or Medicare for all, childcare debt and medical debt. those are very real issues to real people. So I think they're excited to see someone not just saying, well, the other guy's worse, but really saying, look, we're going to rethink some of these things and come up with solutions together Your economic message definitely seems to have caught fire for Americans who really do feel like life is too expensive. But the DSA's positions on some domestic issues like borders, like policing open you up to claims that the DSA is just too extreme for regular Americans. I know that you're aware of this charge. How do you respond to that Yeah. so a lot of the charges coming from sort of documents or sometimes panels where they're clipping people and talking about it that are really sort of expressing this long term view. because we're try to we're not just trying to like fix little problems, we're trying to really get to the root of these societal problems and think about what life could look like and what society could look like if we changed them. Things like Abolishing the carceral state as we know it, right? People say, so you're just gonna to fire all the police. like, well, no. The goal is free child care, free health carere, free college, these sort of things that will actually make there be less crime. We know crime is inextricably linked to poverty. We're not saying like, yes, let murderers run free in the streets. We're saying If we have eliminated in this long term vision, a lot of these crimes of poverty, crimes of desperation, what can the system look like? And you know, it will have to be different. It's hard to convince people on that score too, because even in a much better world People will still murder other people. This is an unfortunate fact. and voters here abolish the carceral state whether it's next week or fifty years from now, and they sense that you are unrealistic They sense that you are not where they are. Working class voters in the last election moved toward Donald Trump in part because, as we understand it from polling, many people felt like the Democrats were had just gotten too p in the sky, right? They were too extreme on cultural issues. wonder whether the DSA considers that the economic platform is very appealing Abolish the carcerol state simply isn't. We think it's important to connect those two things, right? So the reason you do something matters too, right? So they say, well, you want to abolish the police. and say, well, we're not doing that right now. But we have invested in careot cops programs because the long term goal is to stop prosecuting people for crimes of poverty, it's not to make you less safe, it's to make you more safe. becausecause right now the system as it works does not make us more safe There are real concerns about some candidates who are affiliated with the DSA. Daria Liza Avila Chevalier just won a big election in New York City. She said in tweets at one point that she wiped her dirty hands on an American flag because she didn't have napkins. She suggested that white people shouldn't be in interracial relationships There's a lot more. She has apologized and independently, she deleted her Twitter account. She told my colleague Est Dad Hernon, she finds it better to not spend too much time online. But I wonder if are if you are working with anti establishment candidates, right? There is a level of vetting that just It just isn't going to be the same as with establishment candidates Do you think you're going to difficulty finding candidates who are strong on your economic message? don't have to issue these embarrassing apologies Yeah, I mean, that's kind of that is an interesting spot we're in.. We're not forming our candidates in a lab, right? We're not We're not like raising perfect model UN children and sending them to Pfect mod A white people shouldn't be in interracial relationships. I No I agree No, that is that is way out there. No, what I'm saying is is like We are dealing with imperfect messy people for sure. And I, you know, we're not Like I don't know why she tweeted that. I'm imagining there was like like she had a bad breakup and was just tweeting too close to the sun or some some terrible thing. Yeah, that's a that's a bad tweet. She apologized for it Trump did bad tweets this morning, right? Like we werere just like, oh God. But yeah, you know, that that is going to be That is going to be the reality of running candidates who did not come into adult life thinking they were ever going to be a candidate I want to ask you about an issue that's become very sensitive over the past few years. The DSA's focus on Israel strikes some people as Obsessive, possibly even tipping into anti Semitic. So let me give you a couple of examples that I see cited frequently. On october seventh, after Hamas attacked Israel, the DSA released a statement expressing solidarity with Palestine. It did condemn the killing of all civilians, but it added this was not unprovoked Mayor Mamani recently set some Jewish leaders on edge when he referred to APAC as monsters. He said he was quoting the philosopher Antonio Gramsy. A DSA candidate in Colorado who had a big win last night, Milat Kiros She was recently asked by a reporter whether a firebombing attack on a peaceful Jewish gathering in Boulder was an act of anti Semitism. and she said, I don't know what's in the perpetrator's heart. Now there's an argument that these types of things taken together illustrate that there is antisemitism within the DSA. There's also a more nuanced argument that says, the DSA isn't antis Semitic, but you're fostering a culture that allows your members to talk in ways that are What do you say to American Jews who think the way that DSA affiliated politicians talk about Israel goes beyond taking issue with foreign policy and into something darker Yeah, I mean, that is something that I think we think a lot about, but what we see is that Israel is perpetrating a genocide. People are mad when they and should be mad. It's a genocide. We don't equivocate on that definition or on that understanding of the events We see an apartheid state, we see people being in an open air concentration camp, essentially in the Kaza Strip. So people are mad. and sometimes, yeah, people are mad and they're going to not nuance their words as much as they should. I do think it's very important, obviously that we stand against anti Semitism in all its forms But I do not see the state of Israel as something that I like I don't think We should be defending it on any grounds. It's a genocidal apartheid state, and I'm not apologizing for that In twenty twenty four, the DSA rescinded an endorsement of AOC. AOC, of course, is a fierce critic of Israel after she attended a panel with Jewish leaders on anti Semitism A lot of people looked at that and said, you have a fierce critic of Israel who attended a panel on anti Semitism, and the DSA rescinded their endorsement of her you can see the math here. You can sort of see where the brain goes from here When did the DSA rescind its endorsement of AOC? Yeah, so that was actually a complicated process. We didn't actually rescind our endorsement of AOC in that way. So what we did was we made a An endorsement that came with some strings attached, which was kind of the first time we'd ever done that. And we said, we want you to pledge to not fund Israeli military anything, not defense, not offense, no weapons for Israel. We want you to not. Sign on to any of that, which she had voted. I think she voted present on the Iiron Dome. She had she basically we want her in line in the in the same voting line as Rushi to Talib If Russia just leave votes for it, who is one of the most you know, fearless defenders of Palestine and the Palestinian people in Congress. So AOC had voted present on some and she had equivocated on some. And so we said, okay, you can't do that anymore. AOC has since pledged to Vote no on all funding of any kind for Israeli military. So ultimately She came around to your point of view. The pressure work The DSA, we're told, and you can confirm it wants to run a presidential primary candidate in twenty twenty eight. Tell me what that means about your ambitions.