Satire as a Tool for Change

This is the Guardian today The art of making you laugh in the age of the algorithm Be you didn't just say, how can I provide these investments? youd How do I holistically provide everything? How do I bring in the legal, the accounting, all this and do it at a price point, no one else is doing it. Learn more about how we approach wealth management at creativeplanning d. com slash integrated. Hey guys, come with me to survive the apocalyptic hellscape of Britain after the local elections. I start each day disappointed. When your Chuaha. Even if you don't know his name, you will almost certainly have seen one of his skits Is a guy in your feeds who will take a nostalgic chart banger and turn it into a political parody Now on to meditation. To achieve the perfect om, I imagine I'm a reform councillor being asked to name one policy other than immigration He first blew up in the pandemic Rinsing, the Health Secretary S some newspaper call me red Bit creeping with theitory next setet you on to some of that back I will up banging on me down the street too. The Prime Minister I was in the gner with my toories Ting to a little beer. It was Bay or B had a case of corona or three The sheer absurdity of living through lockdown Yeah, it's great COVID, seven days. Check it out Since then, he's wrapped up more than a billion views. He's appeared on celebrity Bakeoff and Taskmaster. I mean, look, it's a little moist, but it's more dry than moist. so I think that is done. It is real. I can do but an extraound un letess shake on it. M madeade documentaries on Kim Youong Un and Robert McGarvey All the while putting a very modern twist on the hoary old tradition of political satire the news moves faster And our reality becomes weirder How'd you find a funny? From the Guardian, I'm Nosi Nkal. Today in focus. Munu Chihuahua on making jokes in a perma crisis We're in Chiua. Wlcome to todayoday in Focus. Thank you for having me Now, you're a comedian and satirist who bypassed traditional comedy routes and you just went viral on social media instead, given the news cycle, which is of course, relentlessly bonkers Do you feel oil for choice in terms of subjects to take Aim at or Do do you find it bewildering It's a great question because it's changed so quickly. In lockdown, especially the news cycle felt pretty intense, but it was like one big story week, one big announcement a week and you would drive all your resource to kind of skeweruring that Now it's just crazy I mean, it's the way that the algorithms are programmed as well, which is to just constantly make us feel like we're behind. constantly make us feel like we don't know at all. And the only security for being in the know, which of course is the currency of conversation is to stay online, it's to be chronically online Now there's almost too much to play with as Satirist or at least for me, it forces me to be more selective I was at the Brits and this lady grabbed me. she was like, You should be writing a parody right now about the Iran war Which really yeah, I mean that killed that killed my desire to be on the dance floor. I was like, I should be working Let's also say that I was than anybody else I'll distract the world by bombing I ran. Although I said I didn't know when I ran If you said that it's gone completely crazy, what point do you think the news has tipped for you where it is now just beyond your processing power? Well, Sometimes my worry is that the Total sort of onslaught and constant barrage of news actually doesn't allow us to really form a thought you're constantly sort of just dipping your toes in the water of a story and then forgetting about it. I would say that this is why actually I started to pivot to long form. My videos are sort of like marathonons comparative to what we're told to make. So they're like ninety seconds minimum, which is I' gonna say, I mean, I thought they was still short. Is he making seven minute films now? ninety seconds is like a Scorsese movie in Instagram to time Being able to skew the around war in a way that makes people feel seen and makes people feel like you' hit the keybeats and you've been sensitive en You know, ninety seconds, I kind of need that time. What's been your biggest video? and consequently, which is your own personal favorite? Hands up to getet ready with Swella It just cracks me up every time I watch it, I still giggle. Hey guys, this is a day in the life with me, Sueella Barman. So I wake up each day at about eight thirty and do some yoga. Here's me doing the poor Ch' pose. Then I have a quick faceime with Satan just for some early morning motivation before making a steaming cup of atrocity. It's a special blend made from one hundred percent immigrant tears. was like What it would be like if one of the sort of seemingly most malicious malevolent politicians did something as innocuous as Get ready with me That's how you end up capturing different audiences because you've got all the young TikTok users who are like, oh my God, I recognize the format. Then you've got everyone who's been feeling quite left out in the cold by Soella and then they meet in the middle. Like that combination is so exciting to me. Can I just likeat Was it a conscious decision to not wear a wig and put a te she on your head? Be that is one of the most funniest parts of it. It's just like Look, you know what Sometimes the weeks just don't arrive in time I mean your videos have now had over one billion views. and there's also so many people making political comedy on social media now Why do you think it is that Satire is booming Well, Satire ultimately is its own form of accountability There's a really great quote which I would probably now butcher. Comedy' a rubber sword because it has a point but it doesn't draw blood So obviously in Britain is quite a Western culture is very individualistic. So the narrative is always, or are you worried about this person? This person's doing better than you, this person's doing you know, has more followers, more views. In Satire, that's a great thing Because ultimately we're providing more jump off points for conversation, discussion, accountability. So I'm really pleased to see everything from you know you'll have TikTokers who do like our news roundups. Scottish sweater news, we've got local elections today. And I'll tell you what, you asked me to name my favorite politician right now. It'd be easier to name my favorite memory fucking Jedward have know other maassterists who do like real long form explainers of things. So you don't knowether British Pre Mister Kir Starmer will be forced to resign, but you don't want to look like a thicky thicky dum dum in front of all your mates. Here's a quick rundown before you become the human equivalent of lemon and herbs seasoning with a smattering of nuclear waste as well. That is fantastic Because so long as there's a discourse between all of us, We can speak truth to power, we can hold power to account Would you say that your audience was already quite politically engaged? or do you think you've brought politics to a new audience? I mean, that would be an amazing privilege if that has happened and you know, to a degree there's evidence of that like I will constantly be stopped and messaged by people who will say like, I care about politics now, or, this is how I get my news or you've put it to me in a way that I can digest I remember once I got messaged by this guy and he said, you know, I'm from a very, very posh background. you know, I'm talking, we host cheese and wine nights with the boys I will take your videos into those you ply sophisticated evenings of debaucherry. And as, know an upper class white man, it's a conduit through which I can discuss with other men of that demographic things that they may not have thought of or things that they sort of you know push by the wayside And that's great although you didn't come up like many traditional comics through the stand upp circuit necessarily imagine that online audiences are any less brutal, if not more so because you've got you know the benefit of anonymity What is it like being so big online? and how do you deal with the criticism that comes with it? Hm You know, politics now as we know it, often relies on us being very thoughtless so that you can be fed a narrative or culturals can be opposed onto you and you just go, yeah, that's right without actually, you know, taking time to think Do I agree with that? Do I disagree with that? I've met people before who For example, disagree with some of the stuff said, but we'll be like, well, thank you for bringing it up And that's great. U and I think Yeah I don't, you know, I'm not a trained satrress by any means, but For my definition, it's kind of like I don't know if you're really there to be liked You're there actually just to hold up a mirror and ask society, do we like this bit of ourselves? And if not, what are we going do about it? We now have Donald Trump marked II in the White House, a president that seems beyond parody You've made a documentary about him exploring his relationship with Check my notes? the world of wrestling What do you think of theory that Arestling might have influenced Trump Everything he does is the psychology of prgress Can you tell me, asset All right The documentary is a thesis which which proposes what if Donald Trump, you know, one of the most powerful leaders in the world may be the most powerful based his entire political blueprint on WW wrestling, professional wrestling as in the oiled up Budgy smuggler wearing Superstars. What if that is source material for the president And if you watch dressling or if you've ever watched wressling, When you really squint and take a look, the parallels are undeniable People think of it as people just dropping elbows and power drivers, but the WWE was notorious for weaving these really emotive storylines that kind of really throttled all of our kind of most venomous emotions. Right And if you look at some of the dramatic devices at wrestling uses to do that, they're very intelligent Right? So first of all, you have stuff like the Sack talk Everyone I know can quote the rock's catchphrases. You know, shut your mouth and know your role, take this, turn it sideways, stick it up to your candy ass. The Rck is gonna go out there tonight and do what he does best and let's thray the smackdown on your rudy poo then you have to flight the Foreign Hill, which was creating these villains who really just embodied the stereotype of all these foreign nationalities. You know, during the Cold War, all the villains were the Soviet Russians. Right? Post nine eleven, it was Mohammad Hassan who was carrying out like you know, martyrs rituals during matches An Iranian American villain back in the day who had got square off a Gst Hul Hogan called the Iron Sheic. whose finishing move was called the Camel clutch In the arenas, what would happen these foreign hers would come out is you'd have thousands of people and then hundreds and thousands of people watching home screaming, USA, USA That's how you dialed up the patriotism to the max. Right. And then of course the K fabbe You know how people say resting' fake? Yes To a degree that's true, but we would describe as K fab, which is the idea that in wrestling, you see these storylines which almost push you to the edge of plausibility But as an audience member, I'm happy to suspend my disbelief because it's just more fun that way. And so when you now step back and if I said to you, can you think of examples of all those three things? in Trump's presidency, Smack talk Sleepy Joe Biden Crooked Hillary. Sleepy Joe. Sleepy Joe Biden. Sleepy person. Do we have foreign hes? Well, apparently, Mexicans are rapist, Haitians are eating the cats and dogs They're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating eating the pets of the people that live there. That sounds pretty foreign haly to me. And then with regards to Kfabe How many times have we seen Trump s something? hasn't materialized And it sounded ludicrous too begin with. I will have the horrible war between Russia and Ukraine Ttally settled. I'll have it done in twenty four hours. We have a plan Be of the power of our military where every bridge in Iran will be decimated By twelve o'clock tomorrow night. When it doesn't materialize, he's like, o, hang on I only, you know, you can't take anything, he says seriously. That is wrestling one on one coming up Can political satire bring together a divided Britain? Hiright, I'm Karis Sherman. And we are here to tell you about our new show, which is rooted in this feeling that at least I have, I know you have where you know it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning Pick up your phone And you're just hit in the face with a fire hose of news, right? Like There's war, there's authoritarianism, Our planet is burning. I could go on and on and on and on and on. But like we're trying to figure out how to manage it, right? Like how do you manage it I manage it by leaning in and trying to learn more and trying to figure out, okay, how can I be smarter about this particular topic? And who can I talk to that's going to make me feel better about it Who can tell me who's responsible for the messs that I'm reading about? So that's our mission. That's the show. Welcome to Statesight with Ki and Carter. We're a new show from the Garden We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting. We don't have billionaires telling us what to say. Stateside with Kyan Carter is out now every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Follow on Apple podcasts or catch us wherever you watch or listen. Looking for something predictable and low friction over the long term, public markets may be a suitable option t The moment you want different investment characteristics, it may be time to consider the private markets See how your wealth can work smarter at creativeplanning. com slash access. So Mina, you were born in Derbi, but you spent a period of your childhood living in Zimbabwe before returning to the UK How has that impacted How you see politics, what lens does it give you When we used to drive past Muab's complex or whatever it wherever it was that he lived that I remember as a kid We were told in the car down like't don't look at the because there were armed guards there. And it was very fear driven. That's what my recollection is. evenven to the point where when the president and his convoy travel. All of the cars would have to park like the reed seea either side of the road. It didn't matter what situation you were in. And you know, we had family friends who were maybe listening to KSFM or whatever the Zimbabwe equivalent was too loudly not to hear the sirens. Right. And then you'd be stuck up att gunpoint. Why didn't you stop for the presresident So to move to England, which You know, for all we say that's bad about it, has a very active democracy. know we have local elections, we have big elections. You can critique a politician on social media That's a privilege I'm very grateful to exercise because Had I stayed in Zimbabwe, I don't know what would have happened to me if I'd taken the same career path in Zimbabwe. I mean, if you'd done one Mugabe video, we wouldn't be It would have been a wp. I mean, to be honest, I think I'm currently banned from Zimbabwe and North Korea. Which whichich ruins any future stag dues, isn't it doesn't it How you feel about making comedy now when The conversation around immigrants, class, race in this country has notched up Crazy levels How do you process, filter and then make fun of that Yeah, I mean, look, the feeling of venom at the moment is very different from what it was In lockdown, it was a very different period because it felt like we as the people were all frustrated at a higher entity, which was the government. We' punching up You know, Ive I've mentioned this term of the foreign Hill, right which is a foreign villain that encapsulates your worst fears about people. I do believe that is something that has led from You know, wresting not just into US politics, but to a degree into here as well becausecause it makes things so simple. Basically the simplest things are binary It's either good or evil. It's eer right or wrong, right And it's so easy just to take something as nuanced as immigration and to say, Listen, I'll give it you stra We're good, they're bad But it's not like that. you know, complex issues fall along the spectrum And so u It look like Nigel Farge is operating in the spectrum though doesn'? that's not how you operate as a populist. And you know, I've tried to say this in the past, which is Populism is a really exciting shiny new thing. That's how it looks on the surface. But the actual mechanics of it are so dangerous because This is like if I was sat here in a different motivverse and I said I would like to be PM And as Prime M minister these are my promises to you right here. I'm going to make sure everyone in A andE gets seen within thirty seconds of arriving I'm going to make sure that every family gets like a ten thousand pound bonus at the end of every year, just to say thank you and I'm going to make it. so everyone has like a six bedroom house. that I guarantee you I'm going to do that as Prime Minister And it's just such a shame that I'm so far away from being prrime Minister, I'll never actually be able to do those things. It doesn't it suck I can say whatever I want because my proximity to that role is so far away. It's not the case with him, though. Well with Nigel Froud, yes, but for a long time, it was the case, which was His proximity to the role of Pian was so far, Of course you can say what everyone wants to hear because The opportunity for them to falsify you on those things is near impossible But now, as we've crept closer to elections, I mean, they're three years away, But that gap is narrowing. It's narrowing. But even then it becomes dangerous because If Farage gets into power and suddenly all these promises and pledges and you know, means of raising money and sort kicking out immigrants. if there are still problems, What you do is you double down on what the problem is as opposed to the fact that you' failed in your solutions. So it becomes, okay, like all the immigrants gone now, but did you know that this group are actually a real drain on society? We should probably get rid of this group of people. You have to continually create enemies in order to maintain popularity when the things that have made you popular aren't working. How does watching him on TV. or Whver.ike How do you feel? What what's your sort of visceral gut feeling now? given everything you've said about where it started to where it's hopefully not ending Well, when I, you know, when I watch Trump or Farage, you know, I see populism at play That's what makes me sort dig deeper into the mechanics of Why is this working on people And you know, I do think it's because, you know, life has become very hard for very many And as I mentioned, when that is the feeling You just want to make it stop. You just want a simple answer And so anyone waving a simple answer, saying, I' got the solution here becomes the most appealing prospect And it's just It's just like a very dangerous way to think And also, what I like least about Farage is sort of how he has turned peopleople against each other. because The thing we're forgetting is if everything goes Pot in Westminster, We the people We're the ones who confire We're more than them in order to fight something terrible from happening. God forbid, if we ever were encroaching upon a dictatorship We would be the ones who would have to stand up and unite But the more and more we divide, the less likely that is in future when we really need to to be together, you know so much of the change that happened in lockdown and the people that got fired and the baddies that lost is because we as the people We were really discontent and dissatisfied with what we were seeing. And we made it loud and collectively heard that we want change and we saw change So our biggest weapon people our unity and for me, Faraj poses a big threat to that Ping F aside for a minute, you have actually tried to make grassroots change and do these positive, unifying things. and I am thinking specifically about Black Boy Theatre Club Why did you start it? Theat is like the only place that you can go and actually experience human emotion in full flavor in four K As a man of colors, you know, someone with a black dad as well, like a Back Zimbabwean dad That's something I didn't see from him You know, I've never seen my dad cry. I've never seen him. Really the only emotions I've seen are sort of like furious or kind of quite quite reserved Those are like that's the emotional spectrum I had to work with. And then when I began going to theatre, theatre might be in the first place I actually saw a black man cry Right, You know? Uh, or upset or elated jubilant. And so A combination of those experiences and then also you know going to theatre looking around and being like, I'm the only one here like I'm allowed to be here. made me want to start the initiative, which was to get young black boys into the theatre. How many boys are you taking on these trips? So we did on the launch year, I think we've done one hundred fifty students. So we'll do like fifteen to twenty boys. we'll go toernando' afterwards, phones go in a box and then we'll discuss the trip Most recently we went to watch One Flow over the Cook's Nest with Aaron Pierre. and that was a fantastic example of play that was so important for them to see because In this interpretation, it was a mainly all black ensemble. And so you're watching these you know, black men with really really battling against these sort of mental illnesses Black men and mental illness is something that we're very desensitized to, especially here in London. and we had a Q and A with them afterwards. and then we got to discuss some of that stuff. And I think I just thought to myself like I wonder how many other young black, fifteen year old boys would ever have a conversation with grown black men about mental health Hopefully many, but if that's the only one, what great conversation to have? what a great place to have it in the old Vic, you know? thinking about what Chris Morris legend that is. Now, he argues that there's no point in Satire if it's placating the core, which in other words means Don't bother if you're keeping the establishment giggling and you're not really challenging it The other point for him is that it should I should try to change something Now Others Rina Hyde from the Guardian, she would say that satire never changes anything, but we need jokes as comfort in hard times. And Times right now are hard almost beyond parody and difficult to comprehend What's your view I think it's both of those things because the reality is Sometimes I think of saying this and I don't think I've ever said out loud, Maybe this will be my weird slogan I get tattooed on my low back It's like If one of my videos hasn't made you laugh, hopefully it's made you smile. and if it hasn't made you smile, hopefully it's made you think. I think laughter and being able to think about something and discuss something are two of the best weapons we have against an increasingly darkening, miserable, misinformed world And so if the videos include either both or one of those elements To me, it would be worth d I don't know if there's anything left to be said. Mina, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me.