Motivations and Industry Implications of the Trial

This is the Guardian. Open EI rejected all of Musk's various accusations and said that Musk is basically just a sore loser in this. The trial pitting two of the world's biggest tech billionaires against each other has come to an end A federal judge in California today dismissed a lawsuit from Elon Musk against the maker of Chat GPT. Every single competitor is doing all they can to slow the others down or leapfrog them becausecause there's just trillions of dollars on the table. A face off in court between the world's richest man and the king of the AI boom. Why did Open AI's Sam Altman win a case brought against him by former backer Elon Musk? From the Guardians Today in Focus, this is the latest with me Lucy Hoff Well joining me down the line from New York is Nick Robbins Elely, teech empower Rorter for Guardian US. Nick, thanks for dialing in early doors in New York So you have for three weeks been covering this fairly extraordinary trial between two of the great tech Titans, Sam Altman of Open AI and Elon Musk of Teslan byace sex amongst his other ventures Victory was handed to Sam Altman unanimously by the jury yesterday and we'll come on to kind of what that was all about. But can you describe to me first of all what it was like? You've described it in one headline as cringy, which I was intrigued by Yeah, I mean, it's been a very interesting trial. It has been at times cringey and it's been very personal as well as professional You know, there's been a lot of details in the case that have been private details about personal diary entries, texts between the executives, little stuff that really we never thought would become public. So it's generated a lot of moments that yeah are at times quite cringey Because I guess we're used to seeing Sam Altman on sort stage at openp AI product launches or Elon Musk kind of bouncing around at Trump rallies or whatever, but to see them kind of standing in the witness box must have been a slightly surreal experience. What other sides of them did we see in the case? Yeah, I mean, in some ways saw the way that they normally present themselves just magnified through this court case And we saw them under pressure and we saw them a little out of their comfort zone. It's kind of a little window into how these people react under pressure and the ways that they are presenting themselves publicly versus the ways that they're privately operated Yeah. so let's talk more about the circumstances of the case. So Sam Altman launched Open AI with the support of Elon Musk and its president, Greg Brockman back in the Housely on days of twenty fifteen when it was a startup and crucially a not for profit. eleven years later, clearly its mission has changed. It's moved to a for profit model And that's the terms on which Musk brought the case, right? He said in court that it was like stealing a charity. Yeah, that's right. I mean, that's sort of the crux of the case. He argues that Sam Altman sort of swindled him, essentially, kind of convinced him to invest in this nonprofit gave it his imprmature and financial backing, and then since Musk left in twenty eighteen after this sort of internal power struggle man corrupted the mission of the company, which was to better humanity through AI. creating this for profit corporate structure. how did they try to present each side of that case in the witness stand? Open EyI rejected all of Musk's various accusations and said that They're still committed to bettering humanity. They're still overseen by a nonprofit and that crucially Musk knew that they were always intending to create this for profit structure and that Musk is basically just a sore loser in this, that he is Motivated by jealousy and that he has lost the AI race. and so that's why he's bringing this suit. Yeah, so the judgment seems to have been that Musk knew around twenty seventeen that OpenAI was moving into a for profit model. and the jury agreed unanimously on that and the judge indicated that she also agreed, right Yeah, that's sort of the interesting hitch of this decision. They didn't actually rule on the merits of Musk's claims about you know Altman quote unquote, stealing a charity They ruled that he didn't bring the case within the Statute of limitations. which kind of suggested based on the arguments that we heard through the trial that they believed openpen Eye's case, that Musk was aware of these way back when and that he waited too long to object So does that give him any grounds to appeal? Is there any further that this could go He has said that he will appeal. And it's you know very possible that this gets kicked up again in a few months U, and he's sort of twisting this as as a los on of technicality Um But For right now it's a Pret you know, striking victory for Altman and Open AI. They've they've, you know, won this case as it stands And what were the damages that Musk were looking for? I remember. I was just shocked when I saw the number of zeros that it might involve. He was asking for quite a bit. He wanted U up to one hundred fifty billion dollars to be taken from as for profit and redistributed to its nonprofit, He wanted Altman and Brockman fired basically. He wanted the undoing of openen EI's for profit structure. All of these would have been a really big deal and a really huge impediment for opening eye had Musk one this case. Okay, so a big victory for Sam Alrtman as you say. but What do you think we can read into the timing and possible motivations of Elon Musk in bringing this case It was reported six months ago that OpenAI is planning a public stock market flatation with an estimated value of one trillion dollars Do you think that perhaps Elon Musk is thinking, I should sold out of this company far too early? I mean, that was certainly O AI's argument during the trial. they were saying that This was just, you know, sour grapes basically. and is this really heated AI race right now where every single competitor is doing all they can to slow the others down or leapfrog them because there's just, you know, as you said trillions of dollars on the table. and so I think when you're looking at this case, you have to look at it in the wider context of what's happening within the industry right now Yeah, and what did we learn about the sort of truth of what happens behind the scenes at a company like Open AI or when a figure like Musk leaves a company? I mean it must have been such an extraordinary sort of port into that world. Yeah, and especially to get it all from the top executives in under oath. I mean, we learned that it's really messy. We learned that openp AI is a much more contentious and fractious company than they like to present themselves as this you know very sleek sheen But over the years, there's a lot of people who have been either pushed out as board members or you know co founders who have left and now have a lot of animosity towards Altman and Open AI We heard on the stand you know, a long list of executives testifying that an was like dishonest or you know had a pattern of lying in some cases And so we got a little look behind the curtain of just how dramatic this company is Yeah. and I guess it made me feel slightly alarmed. L on both sides, neither one of these men is particularly warm and humanitarian, shall we say, both of them, you know, Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, Sam Altman at the absolute forefront of the AI Race. I mean, what do you think this says more broadly about the AI Dan Yes. I think if you talk with researchers and experts who are interested in AI ethics or interested in the impacts that AI is having on our society They would not say that there is a good guy to root for in this case. I think they have deep concerns about the leadership of all AI companies, but certainly the ways that say I O AI, you name it are leading this industry and how that might affect us, you know, people who don't really have a lot of say in it Baby Well, Nick, thank you so much for your time Thanks for having That's it for today. My huge thanks to Nick Robins E early, tech and powerower Reporter for Guardian US. You can keep up with his reporting over at theguardian. com. And do listen to today's episode of our Sister podcast Science Weekly. Ian Sample will be speaking to a clinical epidemiologist about what we know about the current Ebola outbreak. Thanks for listening to this episode of the latest. Today I'm focused will be back in your feedet as usual tomorrow morning The latest,' back to Mor This episode was presented by me, Lucy Hoff. It was produced by Brianie Moore. The senior producer was Ryan Ram Gobin and the lead producer was Zoe Hitch H Kiright. I'm Karl Sherman. and we are here to tell you about our new show, which is rooted in this feeling that at least I have, I know you have where you know, it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning Pick up your phone And you're just hit in the face with a fire hose of news, right? L There's war, there's authoritarianism, ourur planet is burning. I could go on and on and on and on and on. But like we're trying to figure out how to manage it, right? Like how do you manage it I manage it by leaning in and trying to learn more and trying to figure out, okay, how can I be smarter about this particular topic? And who can I talk to that's going to make me feel better about it? And who can tell me who's responsible for the messs that I'm reading about? So that's our mission. That's the show. Welcome to Statesight with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from the Garden We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting. We don't have billionaires telling us what to say. Stateside with Kyan Carter is out now every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Follow on Apple podcasts or catch us wherever you watch or listen This is the Guardian