Background and Legacy of the Killer

Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred seven of the True Crime All the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Cre Mike Gibson Gibbe, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. about you? Doing great. You and I took a week off, We got rested by I went to Jamaica. My daughter got married. You went to Greece. I did Gun Gage and K Gagege. I know. So We had good times, but also, you know, got a little rest and relaxation in and now we're ready to go for the rest of the year. That's right. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time?. We're talking about Arlis Perry Arlis K Perry was a nineteen year old newywood who was murdered inside Stanford Memorial Church on the universities campus Her murder was unsolved for more than forty years before police named a perpetrator long time. It is But you know, you and I have a channel where we do unsolved cases. And at the end we normally talk about What is the likelihood that a case will be solved And there are a lot of factors to that Oftentimes, if there's no DNA, there's nothing, there's no evidence to speak of Well, we're a little bit less optimistic. true about a case being solved, but You know, you cannot say that any case is unsolvable because we've seen a lot of them be solved that Frankly, many people thought never would be. That's very true Arlis was born on february twenty second, nineteen fifty five. She was the youngest of three children. She grew up in Bismarck, North Dakota, where she met her future husband, Bruce Perry, the two were high school sweetheart All the old high school sweethearts, got a couple of those that you just got married. Yeah Uh, My daughter and her husband They started dating It was ten years ago they were Freshmen, sophomores in high school It's just it's amazing because you've watched her grow up. Absolutely. and you've been around him for years now and he's been part of the family for a long time Bruce told the Peninsula Times Tribune that Arlus was a quiet shy person who liked to sew, cook and read They were both religious. and like to take walks and go to church to pray sometimes late at night You ever been to North Dakota I've been to Sou Dakota I didn't get the North. Was that the question I asked? becausecause I don't believe it was. You've been to Texas? I've been to New Mexico. Yeah. So the answer is no. to Texas roouse. No, just joking. So the answer is no. I' never I've never been to North Dakota Actually, I've never been to South Dakota, either if you're wondering. Yeah, you should go. We have some good listeners in both North and South Dakota that came to the Crime Con. Yeah So they'd be happy to have you over there. Maybe, maybe not. You're making assumptions that li. On august seventeenth, nineteen seventy four, Arlis and Bruce got married in North Dakota In late August They moved to California. Bruce was a sophomore premed student at Stanford The newlyweds lived in Quillin Hall in Escondido Villa Arlis got a job as a receptionist at a local law firm. So I mean, you just kind of look at them They're young newly weds, But it seems like they've got a pretty bright future ahead of them. Iteems like it You know, Bruce is pre mad I think they have a plan is what it seems like to me. Gota have a plan. Yeah. But Arlis and Bruce were married for just under two months before she died Arlis was murdered on the night of october twelfth, nineteen seventy four aroundround eleven thirty PM She and Bruce got into an argument their cars higher pressure. Please deem this argument. insignificance. trying to imagine what that conversation be like You know, W it him or her that was upset that the Tire had too little or too much pressure. I won at twenty eight. She wants it at thirty two. Yeah M in the middle at thirty, maybe I don't know Damnit, how many times I have to tell you thirty PSI. whyy did you push it over that But I think Gibbs, you know, anybody who is in a relationship, Has ever been in a relationship You know, there are some arguments that really are pady. They don't, you know, they're not what you would think of as subjects that would require an argument, but one breaks out. It just happens I have been in arguments that I have stopped the argument and said, why are we arguing about this again? Because it it doesn't matter. it makes no sense. Right. Arlis told her husband that she wanted to pray alone inside Stanford Memorial Church. and so they Ped w Maybe that's probably not unusual, right? You get into an argument All right, let's Take a break, cool off, everybody go their separate ways. and that could just be different places of the house In this case, she wants to go to church But Bruce became word around midnight and he started walking around the campus. looking for his wife He called the Stanford Police to report her missing. three AM Officers from the Santa Claria County Sheriff's Office went to the church and reported that all the outer doors were locked What do you make of that Sounds like Nobody's getting in, noody's getting out. or you could if you're the police, maybe think, well Maybe she came but it was locked and couldn't get in. So now we got to start her, you know, or sw Change our search to somewhere else, light in that perimeter, maybe at five forty five AM on october thirteenth campus security guard Stephven Crawford found Arlis's body in the church's East Tanus near the altar She was face up with her hands folded across her chest An ice pick was sticking out of the back of her head But the handle had broken off and was missing This isn' int a church. Yeah. sounds like brutal. You know, someone coming at you Probably didn't see it coming. to the back of the head. I think that's a good assumption. And how hard do you have to hit somebody with an ice pick to Break the handle off I don't know, but ice picks are pretty dangerous if you think about they are, how sharp they are. There were also signs of strangulation. Arlis was nude from the waist down and had been sexually assaulted Three foot long altar can was inserted into her body. Okay, and another was placed between her breasts Her jeans were arranged across her legs in a diamond pattern. this is such a A strange scene, not to mention the fact that it's brutal and it's sad But it's also very strange it's a strange murder scene. It almost reminds me of a scene from that those The Ann Brown books. Yeah, or like seven or, you know, something like that. where you have a very I get where you're going with the Dan Brown because of the religious Yeah angle because this happens in a church Investigators found semen on a kneeling pillow. near the body partartial palm print was taken from one of the So on the surface, you would think That's some pretty good evidence. Well, they are lucky that they have the evidence that they do have because we've done plenty of cases where they don't have a fraction of what this investigator will have Yeah, I mean, it is nineteen seventy four, right? So They're limited. At least with what they can do with semen. There's no DNA or or anything like that So But we know what that would do today Oh, absolutely. to an investigation. it would It would mean, uh, a lot of things. It doesn't mean that you' would automatically be able to solve the case, but you definitely have a leg up. There's no doubt about that Witnesses saw Arlus inside the church at about eleven thirty five PM Stephen Crawford told the visitors that the church would be closing in fifteen minutes He locked up the building around midnight And he didn't see anyone inside He reecked the doors at two AM and they were still locked So that kind of explains, right? The police go They had locked the doors to the church thinking, okay, everybody's left and We're going to lock it up Then Stephven returned to the church at five forty five AM to open it up for the day and found the West side door open It had been forced open from the inside Okay someomebody on the inside Forced it open to get out of there. Yes which tells me Maybe they were bothoth locked in there. at the time that the crime occurred, just hiding from when Stehven looked in earlier Maybe, maybe yeah or maybe The crime had already occurred before he locked the doors But the perpetrator was being quiet Yeah and then didn't realize that he was going to lock the doors. and then at some point figured out, oh, I got to get the heck out of here. so I gott to figure out how to force these open Police told the press that the murder had all the earmarks of a sex crime. That doesn't surprise me at all. No Under shheriff Tom Rosa said they discounted reports that the murder was a Ritual killing it was kind of set up that way. Yeah, I mean, I could understand why maybe you would think that's an angle that I think at the very least has to be explored Like we mentioned, it's a strange crime scene on top of the fact that it has occurred inside of a church I mean You could go the other angle too. they made it to look like try to throw. investigators off Absolutely. Many Stanford students were fearful said they no longer felt safe on camp. And again, we've talked about it so many times That's gonna to happen Anytime you have a brutal murder, right in a community. Yeah You know, deepending on how large the community is, but if you're talking about a campus and some of the campuses can be large, right and have a lot of people, but Either way, when you hear that somebody's killed murdered in the way that we talked about How could students not be fearful? There's a killer on the loose. Yeah. and he's killing it inside of a church. Yeah So like that you always think. I need a safe haven. I can go to a church You don't expect that to happen at the church, right? You really don't And I think because of that You know we have to keep in mind What does that mean Does that mean that the person followed Arlus to the church, into the church, I can't imagine that a killer is just laying in wait at church for somebody to come in. Se seems strange. That does seem like a strange place to Try to find a victim. if that's what you're What you're trying to do Bruce Perry was an early suspect but was soon ruled out He was said to have been cooperative from the beginning with. Bruce spoke to the press a few days after the murder and said, He told the police he believed Arlis was locked inside the church and wanted her to be woken up if she had fallen asleep, but No one checked inside So he, you know, he's relaying this as When he reported her missing, he must have said, Hey, she went to the church. I'm worried that she fell asleep and they lock the doors and she's still in there So you can see that happening. Yeah carefully are they checking to see you know, who's in the church? I don't Chief Marvin Harrington of the Stanford Department of Public Safe said The call was received and officers checked the area The exterior doors were lock There were some women walking in the area but none of them were And Yeah I get, you know, if you're looking at the police here I don't know that there's any blame. to be placed on them I don't think so. It's not like they discounted the call. They took it. They checked in at the church, the doors were locked What else were they going to do? I mean, I feel like they did their diligence Bruce also noted that he took a lie detector test on october fourteenth and was cleared. And we know how much they loved their lie detector tests in the seventies. Oh man Welcome. He said, Whever did this has to be insane And to me, it's a very interesting quote 'ause I I have a feeling You know, when you're talking about the sixties, the seventies That was a natural thought. No one but an insane person commit this kind of crime, right Now we know today because crimes have been studied and you know, we know a lot more about it that Not everyone who does this is insane. Some people just decide they want to either feele What it's like to kill someone? That's always the scary one to me O You know, they have a compulsion or whatever. There's a lot of different reasons why people choose to murder, but it They're certainly not all insane. No Santa Clarary Clarire. S a Clarary or Clara. Yeah. County officials rote out links between Arlis's murder and three previous murders in the area Dating back to february nineteen seventy three. The week after the murder, the Stanford police said there were four or five potential suspects. They wanted to talk to to get their alibi I mean, I feel like they're Do doing what they should be doing You know, they're not just sitting around not looking into it. They're taking the steps that they need to. Yeah, and I Again, I don't know what they have at their disposal Yeah as far as What can you do with the semen Maybe blood typing Probably about all you could do In nineteen seventy four pretty limited Obviously home print. If you had a palm print on file, in that local jurisdiction, You could compare palm prints, but I don't think they had a big database where a computer would just go boop. Yeah ye, yeah. So I mean, you know, it's It's a thing where you look at days before technology. I mean you can even go all the way back to the early nineteen hundreds, even the eighteen hundreds Just see how police did their work And it's amazing that they were able to solve as many crimes as they did. Now I'm sure they put a lot of people away that We're innocent? Probably. It's hard not to think that that happened, but They did the best with what they had, I think most of the time evidence had been sent off to the FBI Cime lab in DC authorities were waiting on a preliminary report Police believe that Arlis was locked in by the night security guard But they didn't know whether she was already dead when the doors were locked And that kind of goes back to what, you know we were speculating on. I think there's a few different scenarios could speculate on But I don't know how you could know for sure which one is may be difficult I do too Captain Frank Masunick of the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office said per the Peninsula Times Tribune, My feeling all along been that the killer was locked in There's no question in my mind Mrs. Perry was in the church when it was lck So In his mind, they were both locked in Again, whether she was already dead when the doors were locked Could she have been incapacitated and then killed later? We don't know that No And I don't know how they would have determined But it sounds like he's confident about the fact that They were locked in Yeah, but I can understand why She goes in the church She's seen in the church doors are locked At some point, someone forces the door open To me, it all kind of lines up with bothoth her and the killer being inside the church, when it was locked and then the killer later figuring out that, hey bust out of here and get away Police said at least forty five people in or near the church onn the night of october twelfth FBI developed one hundred and twenty five latent fingerprints from the materials sent to them And about fifteen people cleared through fingerprint comparison. Okay, I mean, that's Something, right? I mean, you had forty five people that were in and around the church at the time and they were able to clear fifteen. Yeah. again That's something you definitely could do, right with And ye. If you had a fingerprint or a palm print or whatever it was You could take somebody else's and compare them and you say, noope That's not you But if you don't have the killer's fingerprint The killer is not one of these forty five people that you're talking to or whatever it is. thenen it becomes a lot tougher this guy's on file in another state Okay, that makes it tough Yeah because It just wasn't that big connection. Yeah At least seven people were actually inside the church on the night of october twelfth including Arlis and the security guard four others were identified But the seventh individual was not A passerby described him as a young man. with sandy hair and a medium bill I would assume In nineteen seventy four, that would have been a pretty description of you. or anybody at that time in California, No kidding A lot of people have, you know, sandy blondish hair in California. But you know, young man, medium build Okay, you're not really narrowing it down all that much. But if you've got forty five people Maybe that helps you out. Yeah. If you've got thousands of people then Maybe not so much In January, nineteen seventy nine The FBI released a new profile of the killer indicating that He may still stop the camp The killer may have seen Arlis's casual clothing as a defoument of the place of worship. Or he may have killed for fear, he would be overwhelmed by lust. Oh, they overwhelmed by lust theory He was most likely a loner and kept a souvenir from the night And it was said that Arlis's glasses were missing. That's not surprising, right? if they the souvenir or no yeah No, and I mean, none of this really surprises me and profiles rarely do FBI profile profiles rarely surpriseed me because I think more often than not, they follow a pretty similar pattern This one comes five years after the murder and they're saying, this guy's probably still stalking the campus Okay, he's not been caught. so They be may very well be doing that Now To me, the the clothing she was wearing being seen as casual to an individual And then they think, well, this person is deffiling my place of worship. Yeah, could it happen But is it more likely to me some of the other ones. I would say no Now if you're talking about Lost. things like that. I would be more apt to sign on. Yeah, sameame here The fact that she wasn't dressed to the nines to go worship it eleven o'clock at night or whatever time it was And somebody got mad about that. Mad enough to shove an ice pick in the back of her head That's that's, that's kind of tough to Yeah, same here. And then you think about And that's why I lean back on the lust part because Think about The individual did with the candle. Yes, you know, the seam and this stuff. I mean, I think That makes more sense. It absolutely does. Also I mean, how many times do we talk about it What are M. Big motives for murder I agreed lust, those types of things Somebody not wearing the right clothing that you think they should be and you're upset about that It's not one you see. No, and if that upsets you, why would you go to the extent that You're going to kill the person. And then you're going to sexual acts? Yes. I mean, it's like Aren't you devialing the church er than I think that's a great point. That's why to me, that one just doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah. They said that he was most likely a white male betweenetween seventeen to twenty two years old and highly religious Well, highly religious why? becausecause this happened in a church Again That's why the profile thing to me Some turn out to be right, some turn out to be wrong. It's all kind of an educated guess. I get it. It's built on years of experience and all of that could this be a person who's not religious at all fixated with this woman and happened to follow her into the church. Oh for sure. When I think of highly religious, I think of that guy in that movie that would you know, beat himself with the Oh you' going back to Dan Brown again. You're really on a Dan Brown kick today Yeah. you know, he didn had that self flagellate. Yes. I think it was called. Did't have something else he would twist that. Oh yeah That was even worse. Yeah. That would actually dig into his skin. Yeah So by this time, detectives said they had questioned over fifty people and compared their prints with those at the crime scene A number of people also took lie detectors So to your point, they're obviously doing the investigation. Yeah. They're doing what they're supposed to be doing, they're getting into it Arlus's husband, Bruce willingly provided a DNA sample to investigators wittlingly. Hey! You need a DNA sample I'll give it to you right. I can do it right now if you want it. But wouldn't you do that too If you knew that you weren't guilty Yeah. You'd be one of you'd be the first person in line to say, hey, make sure, you know, I'll give you a DNA sample And obviously This would be later because, you know DNA wasn't Really thing I probably just show up with I mean, I always carry a A sample I don't want to know what kind. please don't tell me. I' gott to rotate them every now and then for the expiration of them Yeah, I mean, to me when somebody willingly offers up Good chance that they're not guilt right Pretty confident he's clear. Yeah Security guard Stephen Crawford did not submit a DNA sample, but police obtained one from an object he discard He also didn't take a lie detector test when others did. makes you wonder, you know Hey, your're security guard Kind of Law enforcement Ish You know, but why wouldn't you want to help out here? you know, do the lie detector test and But I love these sneaky You know, wait for him to put his coffee cup down or Oh, I always love that. Yeah. Straws, coffee cups There's been all kinds of different things But it does it doesn't mean Stephen Crawford's guilty, but you know, in the eyes of investigators, he has to go up the list. sureure he does. right. He's not being cooperative as far as giving DNA taking a lie detector test Now we said it right at this time DNA profiling, as we know it did not exist. Yeah In his book, The Ultimate Evil, The seearch for the Sons of Sam Journalist Maurie Terry proposes the theory that Arlis was murdered by a satanic cult on the instructions of Satanists from Bismarck Okay came down from Bismarck. Now this book came out in nineteen eighty seven, which to me is during the height of the whole satanic panic thing and doesnn't surprise me that someone would say, well, it's probably a satanic cold. Yeah. It did blame a lot of stuff back then on satanic colds. I did it in school. I blamed it a lot of times why my homework wasn't in. Satanic cold. Yeah. You know, they had me, I couldn't get my homework done. Terry also speculates on serial killer David Berkowitz alleged involvement So you know, you have the son of Sam, David Berkowitz He's killing people in New York City, but, you know, maybe he decides to take a trip to Dakota Yeah. it seems a A little Burfetch But in nineteen seventy nine Berkitz sent a book to North Dakota authorities, in which he wrote in the margins Arless Perry hunted stalked and slain Followed to California, Stanford University I said North Dakota, but obviously the murder happened right in California. We know now that Berkowitz was kind of full try and most of the stuff that he said Especially about the son of Sam and the dog and all that turned out to be made up Yes Yes. but Also You know, how hard would it be for him maybe to learn about this murder? and then send this book in to authorities The other thing we know about serial killers is they like to take credit for things sometimes that they didn't do. Eespecially when they're already in prison or they have to lose If it gets some more limelight to, some of these guys, they like the attention. Yeah because You know, if you think about a serial killer especially when they're captured Oh my gosh,'s it's huge. It's big news, right? It's a a media circus with the trial But then what happens? Eventually all of that kind of goes away And you're just left to rot in a cell for the rest of your life or to be put to death at some point So To your point Does someone say, well I haven't been in the news for a while. Nobody's come to talk to me Hey I'll do this. Yeah. And it'll kind of stir things up again You know, I think if I was a serial killer today I'd probably do a true crime podcast you know, like as a co host or something. Yeah, you know, and N be the main person. No, no, no, just be but be there and you know, give some input, right or wrong. Get free food. Oh yeah, yeah, eat for free like I do. Yeahah. Itusts all kinds of Perk's there I guess Now in a few letters, Berkowitz suggested that heard details of the crime from Manson I second who he said was the alleged killer. Okay. He was interviewed in prison But investigators believed he had nothing of value to offer per the San Jose Mercury new Do doesnn't surprise me at all With everything that we know about David Burke Maury Terry noted that Berkowitz volunteered information about the case without being prompted Terry also interviewed Arlis's friends in North Dakota and learned that someone on the Stanford campus took a telephone listing under Bruce Perry's name The confusion when Arlus's best friend and Bruce's mother attempted to reach them at the fraudulent phone number. led Arlist to call the number herself and speak to some in a letter dated september twenty seventh, nineteen seventy four Arlis wrote, I had to laugh about your call to Bruce Perry Mrs. Perry made the same mistake She called them too But the strange part of it is that his name is not only Bruce Perry, but it's Bruce D Perry But not only that Bruce Duncan Perry and he attends Stanford University, and he just got married this summer. One thing, his wife's name is not Arlis. Anyway, next time you get the urge to call, the number is that this time I guarantee you'll get the right Bruce Perry So you know, kind of a strange thing is to have happened. kindind of interesting Could it Be that there's another Bruce Duncan Perry technically, but One that just got married that summer. I mean, it seems pretty strange. P prettyty far fetched Serial killer Ted Bundy was also considered a suspect at one point, but he had a verified We've talked about it a lot, right when you have these unsolved cases pretty Norm for police to look at you know, serial killers who had similar MO's who were operating Maybe in or around the area at the same time weapons or That happens today, but it's happened throughout history I mean, I'm not surprised that they looked at Bundy initially because, you know, California. I mean it just kind of makes sense Plus You know you, you have a verified serial killer. Yeah You already know this person's capable of this type of murdder We just want to see if they actually did this one In august twenty sixteen, detectives submitted an item of Erlis's clothing for DNA testing In twenty eighteen DNA evidence definitively linked former security guard Stephen Croft to Arlus's murder By this time, Gibbs, Crawford was seventy two years old seventy two. And that's the power of DNA and we keep talking about it. twenty eighteen. seem to me to be kind of the year where A lot of the u The newer DNA technology was being unleashed. You know, you think about the Golden State killer being captured And that two I think that was twenty eighteen, I hear is around out of time frame Dam you know, I think it's when they were starting to realize some of the power of DNA, especially when it came to like genetic genealogy and Things like that But that's the amazing thing about DNA as it relates to forensic work and Please work The technology just keeps evolving Yeah and getting better and better as far as beinging able to get samples maybe on things that were tried years and years ago, but The technology wasn't there to even get a viable sample and now they can't I mean, I love that this is happening, you know, I'm just trying to Picture all these people that thought they got away with something And then they see the cruiser come down the lane or they see the Or they see the police officer at the door, you know, Or they watch you on YouTube hitting your mic hitting my mic. Yeah Um, but I love that because you know It's got to be a feeling of like, o sh Yeah No because My thought is always that You know, especially in these crimes that happened sixtty seventies Things like that They had many, many years of thinking Oh I got away with this. There is no way they'll ever connect me then at a certain point, They had to start being a little concerned When you see on the news that some of these cold cases are being solved using DNA And then you really got to be shaking in your boots when You see some of the advancements down the road And at that point you're thinking, oh, they could get And now it's like an everyday looking over my shoulder type of thing I'm with you I think that's amazing because We don't want these people number one to get away with these murders, but number two to live their life free from At the very least, anxiety about being caught And u And obviously we want them to eventually be calledught. A seventy two years old Yeah You figure At seventy two Most people, and I say most, not everybody. They've been married. Maybe once, maybe multiple times usually have a family Grandkids, probably retired. You're somebody's grandpa Yeah And now all of a sudden You're linked to a murder. I mean, what does that do? you know throughout the family tree There's just a lot that goes into these identification ye On june twenty eighth, twenty eighteen Police arrived at his apartment in San Jose, California with a search warrant Stephen Crawford shot himself in the head G handle it No and to your point, do think that he was Aware Maybe not that they were closing in on him, but that the technology was was there that they could catching. And I'm sure he was very aware of the type of evidence that they had Yes andince he left it on the kneeling post And I'm sure it'd been reported, right? Well, we know it had because this is where we got some of our information from old newspaper articles and things like that So as time goes by, right for Stephen Crawford and you're starting to see what they can do with DNA and you know what you left behind. gotta be really worried So now we're not sururprised at all why he didn't want to give a DNA sample back then. No. and why he didn't want to take the lie detector test. No because would have failed the lie detector test, I'm sure And Ever they could have done whichich obviously was not full blown DNA profiling, but Most likely they would have Mashed his blood type Yeah. maybe something along those lines I don't know if it would have been enough to convict him, but he wasn't taking that chance Deputies arrived at his apartment at nine hundred four AM And they spoke to him through the door Crawford asked for a few minutes to get dressed deputies thought he was stalling. so they used a key they got from the office to get inside He was sitting on the bed with a gun in his Deputies immediately backed away And then a short time later They heard a gunshot When they re entered, Crawford was dead from a self inflicted wound And you know, for me that is just the proof that No at the very least that This could happen to him. They could figure out who he was and he had made The the necessary preparations. Let's call it that And in his mind, he was never going to be Ten away I think he hadd made that choice. certainly didn't want to go to prison. Now. He didn't want to pay for his crime. at a news conference, Laorie Smith with Santa Clara County said is quoted by Paolo Alto onnline We followed all the leads and unraveled entanglement of the elements associated with the murder of Arlis Perry This is a case that eludes us no longer. And I, you know, I wonder what the feeling is like for investigators. Yeah. We talk a lot about what is the feeling for the family. to finally get that type of notification that The murder of your loved one is solved so many years later You know, you also have to think about investigators A lot of people who worked on it retired and probably found out at some point, right that was finally solved It's got to be a really gratifying feeling. think so. I mean, the relief in the Um, Almost I think you would almost break down and Finally. Yeah. Finally, weve got the They worked on it for many, many years. They never gave up and they finally figured out who it was Smith said that Crawford had been a suspect, but there just wasn't enough evidence to charge him And we talked about it, right? How could he not be a suspect First of all, he's the person who found the box. And and that person is always going to be If not a suspect, a person of interest, they have to be clear Because many times the person who finds the body turns out to be the killer. But then also you have him you know, not wanting to take a lie detector test notot wanting to give up any type of DNA He's got to be a suspect. And he had access to the location. Yeah. abbsolutely. He had keys. Yeah, right Cold case detectives contacted Crawford in the weeks leading up to his death And so ight? We talked to At some point, he had to know There was a chance when they contacted him That must have really set the alarm bells off They're ono me, right? Matter time. Yeah. So he at that point, if he wasn't already geared up to possibly do something. at that point he probably did gear up He was linked to the crime through DNA evidence found on Arlis's clothing That evidence was pushed forward by lead detective Sergeant Richard Alanis. Alanis kept a picture of Arlis to serve as a reminder of her life And we've heard that, right? A lot of detectives do For cases that go back ten, twenty, thirty, forty years I think it's good. I think it's important to remember why you're doing what you're doing. every day or once a week or whatever the the frequency is on these, you know, cold cases. So you remember this is this was a person. Right. notot just a cold case with a number. there there's an actual person and I think police know Detectives who searched Crawford's apartment found a box in his closet that contained personal papers and the jacket for the book, The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry which discusses the murder of Arlis Perry a hastily written suicide note from twenty sixteen was found on a computer table near the bed. It didn't mention the murder directly This date may have coincided with when the lead detective began questioning Crawford again Arlis's mother, Jean was eighty eight years old When the case was solved She told the Mercury News that The case had taken a toll in recent years on her husband, Marvin who sadly died three months earlier She was heartbroken that the perpetrator wasn't captured before he died Yeah, youd like to be able to get him that closure. so yeah. but It's sad that he died without ever knowing that the case was solved. Arlis's sister, Karen Barnes, spoke to reporters by phone and said that their first was reaction was after all these years, it's about time And I get that Yeah Is it that Some people at a certain point think It's just been too long It's never going to be solved And then others, they never give up hope, they never waver They kind of remain steadfast that no it is going to be solld But either way, You wouldd have to have some sort of reaction like that. like It's about time. Yeah. You know, we've been waiting so long They knew the sheriff's office was still investigating Occasionally, they received inquiries from detects. following up on various aspects of the case They weren't surprised to learn Crawford was a suspect because is they said from what we heard His story tended to change. every now and And we've talked about it many times before on The Unsalult podcast is When you have these people changing their story tends to be because There's no truth behind it. They're lying. Yeah, you know, and they're making something up. again they forget what they made up. or they're contradicted with facts. so they got to make up a news story that kind of fits the facts that you know or put before them Now, she also said their closure wasn't complete because they didn't know why Arlus was killed and Yeah, knowing who That's important But the why, I think for many people, is also very important Why? Why would someone want to do this to our loved one This person who, you know, everyone seemed to really like said was a nice person Why would they do it It makes you wonder, you know, W wasas it just Somebody he lusted after when he's when he's seen her in there and then after the fact He did all that extra stuff to try to make the police think something more than what it was. Or was that part of his fantasy part of You know, killing itself and the gratification that goes along with it for some of these individuals Crawford's neighbor, Janette Christaum told Palo Alto News that They exchanged greetings several times during the year she lived at the complex Crawford kept to himself but seemed normal Palo Alto News provided further information on Crawford's background. He was an Air Force veteran He began working for Stanford in nineteen seventy one as a police officer and carried a gun In nineteen seventy two, the new police chief began reorganizing The Stanford Police Department questioned whether many officers were qualified to carry guns They were asked to reapply and about three quarters of the force did not qualify So they were offered jobs as security guard Crawford was one of those people It was said that he complained bitterly about the change. He just wasn't happy that he had to be probably Probably to him, it was a demotion. Yeah, I'm sure he looked at it that way. He was a police officer Now he's a security guard. I mean, that's nothing against security guards, but I'm with you, I'm thinking you know, if I'm in his mind, That's a demotion. Yeah. and he wasn't happy about it He remained at Stanford until nineteen seventy six But he began stealing items from some of the offices there, such as Human skulls. a walking cane given to the university founder Rre books He also got a degree Gibbs from Stanford using a blank diploma that he took from the print shop Now that sounds something like you or I would have done back that day or maybe just me. Maybe just you, but Okay, you're just going to walk around as the security guard stealing a bunch of stuff You're also going to be so bold to give yourself a degree from Stanford. This is not C Dunk you, This is Stanford University. It's you prestigious. prettyretty prestigious, not not that u easy to get into or you got to work your butt off. Crawford was arrested for receipt of stolen property. He received a six months suspended sentence. He claimed he was angry at the university and the police depepartment for treating him as a suspect. Sheriff Laurie Smith said investigators But think Crawford was connected to other unsolved murders at Stanford or in the area But they were still looking into it. I just find it weird that he was upset that they were looking at him as a suspect You did it. Well, but I just snorted. He's not going to be happy because he doesn't want to be looked at. But you're right. He did it It doesn't mean he has to be happy about it. Yeah, that's true But let's talk about the notion that he would commit other crimes And I think to do that, you have to go back and kind of revisit this crime And it's brutality Obviously, we talked about the sexual nature of the crime. the ice pick to the back of the head I feel like This is the type of person could have committed other crimes I think so. I don't think You could clearly say this is an isolated issue. No,s there's no way. Now could Someone commit a crime like this and then N murder anybody again. Yeah, technically they could. I think there's a there's a strong likelihood though that If you're able to do this, Chances are that You either enjoyed it where there was some aspect to it, going to want to experience again as Nasty and vile is that sound Former San Jose Mercury newews columnist Scott Hi spent your studying the case and developed a snapshot of Crawford's personality He said he could be charming, but he was a loner and a liar For example, he claimed his parents died in a car accident when he and his brother were young. they actually died separately when he was in his early twenties It was in a square dance group. And his groupmates called him the prevaricator because of his tendencies to tell stories So term there to use instead of saying, calla, liar. I've never actually heard of that word. And I feel like my vocabulary is decent. I just ye It's not one I'm familiar with. But if you take the Bari Youready had the pre.. Here we go. Break it down and it's Latin and you know all about it I think the first The first maybe u thing to jump out at somebody was the fact that he was in a squaare dancer. Nothing against all you square dancers out there, but Single going to the square dance. Yeah. Maybe you should be looked into. So as we wrap this one up, givbs, the murder of Arlis Perry was the biggest unsolved crime. in Santa Clara County history. Her murder remained unsolved for more than four decades. As we talked about, right? Investigators never stopped pursuing their main suspect And they used advances in DNA technology to link Stephen Crawford to the murder Sadly Although There's not a I guess what you would call H Resolution In this case Because there's no legal justice For Arless and her family, but We know who did it Yeah I mean At least he's no longer around H I get what you're saying. Yeah time. Resolution, but then also not resolution Those cases are always strange when somebody doesn't make it to trial even though The evidence is overwhelming. I'm sure he would have been convicted I just wish that he would suffered Yeah Yeah, because this I think these these types of cases are even more infuriating because What he did was extremely horrible. was And he took someone's life But then he got to live his life for a very long time ty some years, man. just u And I think for a good chunk of that, he didn't turn around to look who was behind them at all. No, at a certain point, I'm sure he did, but like you said The majority the majority of it, I'm sure he lived I don't know how good of a life it was, but it was a free life. He was free to do whatever he wanted and he shouldn't have been. No, because he, you know, he killed some But that's it for our episode on Arlas Perry You got anything else? No. All right How simple that was No, you just say no