Sentencing and Final Reflections

You know, folks, making that decision to start a podcast or really any type of business, it's scary. It was for Gibby and I as well. But what if no one listened? What if we make fools of ourselves And it can be really hard to get over that doubt But choosing to make that leap was one of the best decisions we've ever made. Another great decision was picking Shopify to help with our podcast merch. It really does help. When you have a partner like Shopify on your side Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world And ten percent of all e commerce in the US from household names like GyemShark to True Crime All the T time to brands just getting started. There is a lot to love about Shopify. I love the fact that they're now packed with helpful AI tools that help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photography. email and social media campaigns. 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Gibby's on vacation. He's in Greece, probably eating a bunch of good food I'm heading to Jamaica for my daughter's wedding So I'm probably there right now But we didn't want to leave everybody hanged. So we want to put out a true crime all the time An unsolved episode. This true crime all the time is a Patreon episode. I think we did all the way back in twenty twenty But at least you have something to listen to. And for ninety nine percent of you You've never heard it Speaking of that, if you're not signed up for Patreon, now is a great time Enjoy the episode. Hello everyone and welcome to our fifty first Patreon episode I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always, I' my partner in True Cime Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey, man, I'm doing okay. How about you? I'm doing well. You know, it seems strange to announce who we are to our Patreon folks. That's right. We just should say what, this is me and that's him And you know who we are, but exactly right. You know, I'm like I have a routine. I know. If I don't do the routine Get off track That's why you won't let me do it in reverse because you know, it's gonna throw you off Yes. been asking to do that for some reason. I have no idea why uh You told me you can speak backwards, which I thought was strange Sound like a record. Yeah. kind of like my for my dyslexia or my Dislik, dislikes I should say Oh, Okaykay. All right, here we go right out of the gate. So you and I are taping The Wednesday before Thanksgiving we are Obviously, this episode will come out Saturday night Um so we can't I can't ask you how your Thanksgiving was because I don't know But I will say I'm excited. My daughter's home from college. And so and it's just the four of us. We have a lot of family that's out Traveling C make it nice. It is. It's going to be really nice. just the four of us we don't get a lot of that. so whenever we do, I'm veryery happy littleittle movie trivia night or mayame or something something We don't know. Yeah, we don't know Maybe some huntter killer Wow, There's a guy I got one of those upstairs But I do want to wish everybody a happppy Thanksgiving. thoseose of you who celebrate it Yeah Let's go ahead and our Patreon shout outs We had Nicole Munos. Munos. Morbid God. What's going on? Morbid? Ala. Hey, Ayla. Karen Nicks. Well, thank you, Karen. Molly Pell. Well, thank you, Molly. Tabatha Church ward. What's going on, Tabatha Natalie Pastura. Oh pastura. Ryan Hope. What's going on, Hope? Lisa Marie Hawkins. Hey, Lisa Marie. Georgia Penny. Hey, appreciate that penny. Michelle Bennett. Well Bennett Randy Zer Almost notcept Randy Sayers, Bzers, yeah. Wh's Randy Sayers Is not the famous football player or my way off. It's Gail Sayers. cllose. It's his it's his it's his third cousin from his Moms side. Randy Gale. Yeah. what what's the difference? Adam Reeves. What's going on Reeves Nicola forurlong. Hey, Nicola. Melanie Hoton. Hey Melanie. Martin's Julie Thank you. you appreciate that, Martins. I always think like sometimes the names are backwards And it could just be how somebody entered them in Um to the Patreon system, but I don't know, may not be. It May just be the first name. could be Kelly guys. What's going on Kelly. And last but not least, Kimberly D Bine That's it. The bean? Yeah, I thought there was something to come after that, but that's it. The bean. The bean. Then we go back into the vault This week we selected Kate Fleming. Thank you, Kate. Yeah, we appreciate all the support we always do It's amazing. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this Patreon episode? I'm ready. We're headed to Tennessee talk about Joe Guy Junior. Yeah This a guy who murdered and dismembered. parents at Thanksgiving time in twenty sixteen. So Like I said, this episode comes out a couple of days after Thanksgiving So I feel okay with telling the story I wouldn't want people listening to it, you know, right before Thanksgive. Yeah. You know, hopefully By the time you're hearing this All the turkeys kind of cleaned up, Y family is gone. Yeah. They've left and You can just listen to the story. You're just laying on the couch relaxing. Yeah. Now we willll say it's a pretty brutal one There's no doubt about that Joel Guy Junr. was born on march thirteenth, nineteen eighty eight to Joel Sr and Lisa Guy He had three sisters I didn't find a whole lot about his childhood. This isn't really a childhood Story, right But some of the sources said that You know, he had sisters, some called them half sisters It was kind of hard to tell He graduated high school, went on to college, but unlike you Gibbs, you know, he wasn't earning his degrees at in record time It's hard to do that. Well, not everybody can be like you. Absolutely not.s let's just get that out there right now. I was not like you I was no Doogie Haouser. I will admit that So This guy attended a few different colleges And you know, he spent like nine or ten years in college without really accomplishing What he wanted to do That's a long time. It is, but there's Other people that go through that I was gonna say it happens to people. Yeah. especially If you don't know what you want to do Exactly, right going into college, number one, college can be tough for many, many people. can be. And sometimes it's really hard to figure out, okay What do I want to do? And you might try this and you go down a path of maybe a whole year and decide I don't like this at all. Right. So you switch and I get four, five, six years. Now nine or ten You know, you should be a plastic surgeon doctor. A one point, I think he was trying to be a plastic surgeon. Some people just like to be a full time all the time student, you know? I think Okay, that may have been him, you know, bounced around a little It's one of the things that caused tension in the household because Joel Sr. and Lisa is M and dad They paid for his tuition. you know, the entire time. Oh, well, that's that could be a problem. I mean, look, I I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up. Yeah. You'll figure it out. Yeah. Someday. Yeah Someday. I think you should be a spokesman maybe for ARP That would be a good goal You could be one right now You don't need to wait, it's true. I've already hit thatready I know. went over that threshold. But you know as a guy who has one daughter getting ready to graduate in college and another one who's going next year Okay I can understand kind of the financial implications of collge I understand the equation Yeah You know, it's it's tough. you want to help your kids out D gone, man. you look at the bills of some of these colleges and you're like Who am I Rockefeller They think you are. They think I am Yeah But you do what you can, right? I think that's what every parent strives to do Okay, you can't pay for everything Not everybody can, I get that. We try to help out as much as we can. They were paying for the whole thing is What I understood, everything I read For nine or ten years. And there'll be more that comes out about they' probably like the financial piece. Maybe this is the year Maybe this is the year that he's going to I'm sure every year they were thinking that. It came out later at trial that Joe Guy Jr. had gotten into some legal trouble while he was at LSU, that's one of the colleges he went to and his parents even took out a mortgage. to help him out of this legal trouble. So I mean, they were behind him one hundred percent. They were trying to help him. succeed, no doub as Thanksgiving twenty sixteen approached You know, there was a lot going on in the guy family Joel Senr was six year one years old. and had recently lost his job at an engineering firm. and he had a really good job I think he wass making, you know good bank. We had to if we fo that university bills. Yeah. And because he wasn't the only child. There were other, you know, kids involved, you know, in the mix too fifty five year old Lisa work at another engineering firm She wasn't an engineer I don't know the exact title of her job My understanding was that she stayed home with the kids and then Once they got to be a certain age, You know, she went out and she got a job, but You know she was helping support the family as well. I just know that there was a lot in the research about the fact that she didn't make as much as he did. R She wasn't a full blown engineer and I think he was So The pair had been married for like thirty one years They had six Grandchildren, wow. Thank for Those are expensive too. Kids are expensive. Grand I don't have grandchildren yet. Find me some wood, please. but I know they're expensive as well. can be So what happened was the couple made the decision to sell their family home in West Knox County and try to retire to a home in I think it was Rogersville, Tennessee. Okay. And this was a home, I think, that was in the family Oh, maybe had been left Nice. To them or something. Limited mortgage probably P maybe no more mortgage Yeah, it helps out when you lose your job that you don't have to worry about a mortgage. Well, especially if you're trying to retire. Yeah. It's kind of hard to retire when you got a big ass mortgage payment. Exactly That's for sure Um So Yeah, this family had been in the home for years. So I think Gibbs, from what I read E I read. And what friends and family said, obviously later on was that The couple was really looking forward to this twenty sixteen Thanksgiving I mean I always look forward to Thanksgiving, but this one, I think they were looking at it as kind of a Re big deal The last one in the family house. Yeah everybody together. Maybe the last time. We're all going to be together. I don't know, but for sure the last time we're all going be together in this house. Yeah And that would be a big deal. It would be. It's a lot of memories right there. Yeah, you think about the house that you raised You know, all your your kids in and I think about at some point selling this home and it's going to be tough. I've lived here twenty years. Oh yeah. So essentially both of my kids It's the only house they really have ever known? I know it's rougher when you think about the six years I've been coming here. It is. All those memories. That's really what holds you back. I would be a trillionaire if I had all the money back that I've spent on your dinners for the last six years, I would pay. I would I would. You say that after the meal has already been consumed? Yeah. I just don't really honest, I don't know where my wallet is I had it. It's never here. It's never with you Yeah. might have left it on my kitchen counter. I think is the thing. Yeah. So the other thing is the house was already up for sale And I think it was already sold actually. It just needed to close. Yeah. I hadn't I don't think it had closed yet So like we said, last Thanksgiving, you know, in this house The kids were already out of the house, they were living on their own. Joe Guy Junior was twenty eight years old at this point unemployed and living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. where he had attended Louisiana State University The sources were kind of all over the map You know, some said that he dropped out in twenty fifteen Later on, sources said that he was a student at LSU Some referred to him as a non matriculating student Crirculating And I I don't know. Was he enrolled, but he wasn't taking I don't know. know Yeah He wasn't getting All that far is what it sounds like. Mbe he's maybe he's enjoyed the campus life Well, who who wouldn't of his life. If mom and dad are footing the bill And you don't have any financial responsibility really to speak up. Who wouldn't want to st in college, man, College is awesome Yeah I think there's been a few movies made about that aboutout college? Yeah. about being in college for longer than the normal you know, o threeree to five years. Yeah, maybe I mean, I'm thinking animal house. Oh for sure. I'm also thinking that what's the one where they They don't actually go back to college per se, but they start the fraternity Oh yeah, yeah. What is? With Wolf Ferrell and all those guys. I B beensong Benong. 's good new. Old school. Old school. Yeah And Ryan Res is one where he plays a long time. Van Wilder, Van Wilder. sureure. Yeah I mention this financial situation. Right. There are a lot of sources that said Joel Sr. losing his job And really kind of everything they had going on with that was a determining fact and Joel Sr and Lisa coming to the conclusion that they had to cut Joel juni. off. Yeah At a certain point, if you don't have the money You can't do it Yeah, I mean, you say look Come over on year ten We're going to have to let you go at this point. Yeah, this it's a very important part of the story. There are There were some reports that There were emails maybe shown at trial. that went back as far as maybe twenty twelve, twenty thirteen Wh Joel Sr was emailing Joel Junr. and saying Hey, what's going on? We can't keep this situation going. R But for whatever reason, they didn't cut it off It went, you know maybe three years, three or four years after. Strange what you do for your kids when you know that you probably should doing whatever you're doing, but you continue doing it because They're your kids.'re kids. Yeah. You want to help your kids. I get that B Brian Reynolds here from Mit Mbile I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for fifteen dollars a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to MintMobile today I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile d. com slash switch. Upfront payment of forty five dollars for three month plan, equivalent to fifteen dollars per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. taxes and fees extra. Feful terms at mintMobile d. com You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet Drivers who switch and save with progressives save over nine hundred dollars on average Stop over to progressive. com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by In fact, ninety nine percent of their auto customers earn at least one discount. progressive. com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back Progressive casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average twelve month savings of nine hundred and forty six dollars by new customers surveyed who saved with prorogressive between june twenty twenty four and may twenty twenty five. Potential savings will vary. So Joel Jr. drove up from Louisiana for Thanksgiving in his two thousand six Hyundai Sonata. same exact model that you drove over here today. It's an amazing model two thousand six. Yeah Why Why get something new? his half sisters. I'm going to call him his sisters because I'm really on the fence with that. It was it was not apparent I the report they drove in for Thanksgiving as well. This is going to be the whole family together. They're all there at the L Casa fromrom what the sisters would later tell investigators, Thanksgiving went off without a hitch. it went well. A good time was had by all. It wasn't like that movie would Holly Hunter and u The guy played She just go had a little circle on his chest Rberdey Junr I have not seen a movie with Robert Downey Jr. and that movie Marvel with the whole Oh, I've seen Iron Manron Man. Yeah. I don't I've never seen a movie with Robert Downey Jr. and Holly Hunter. Oh yeah, it's called It's a Thanksgiv mov It's called It's a Thanksgiving movie. That's what they named it. It's a Thanksgiving movie. H for the holidays. I think. Maybe I'm wrong. That sounds like a Christmas movie. No, it's a Thanksgiving only movie. It's hilarious It's hilarious man. I've never seen it. I've never even heard of it.. Y. If you've never seen it, you gott to watch it. I will watch it Um When I watch the incredible Mr. Limpet Oh, this is this is better. But now you're in a real conundrus, This is a tough one No You have to catch it out. It's real Sophie's choice you got got going on there The big thing. Right? They have the dinner. Yeah. everythingvery is fine. Good time, pad by all. and Even the sisters would later say Everybody was normal. E by A had their stretchy pants on they were yubppy And They all left, right? The sisters. they all left after Thanksgiving while Joel Jror stayed behind for the weekend. The Knoxville New Sentinel reported that according to Knox County Sheriff's Office Major Michael McLan Sime between Friday night and midday Saturday They believe that Joel Jr. attacked his parents with a knife possibly totured them and dismembered their bodies. Laving remains in various rooms of this twenty thousand three hundred square foot He said that the door was left unlocked And they believed Right at this time as the reporting was coming out that it was it was Joel Jr. and he drove back to Louisiana Let me think, how can I stay in college a little bit longer? Oh I don't know. let me take this knife and Murder my parents, That's gonna let me stay in college.. Yeah, we're gonna to have to get into that And you know, this wasn't really a long drawn out investigation It didn't take long at all for the authorities to link Joe Guy Jr to the murders The Knoxville New Sentinel reported that Knox County Sheriff's Detective Jeremy McCour to the guy home after they received a report from Lisa guy's employer that said She didn't show up for work after Thanksgiving, the Monday after Thanksgiving concern Yeah, and I think they got blown off at first. I read in one paper that They weren't happy the police weren't taking it seriously because she had some kind of big time meeting that she would have never missed on Monday. No she would have been Yeah. So they ended up calling or going up the chain and getting somebody that would take them seriously Um And that led to this, u Jeremy McCord guy going out to the home And he said the for sale sign was still in the yard. When he got there around noon on Monday. Still, you know, everything happening very quickly Thursday Thanksgiving.. They believe the the murders happened Friday, Saturday. Obviously nobody knows until Monday that anything's wrong because She isn't show for work McCord later testified that He could feel heat emanating from a doorway. And he caught a whiff of chemicals in the air Potentially not good. but yeah, I would say probably never good. Yeah Um, I I have a real sensitive nose. So I don't my wife likes to burn a lot of candles dry and she has these plug in sense things that Bray Oh, misted every now and then. Oh my gosh And if she puts it in a room that's too small Soone in the laundry room. a couple of weeks ago And I thought I was going have an attack It was an attack on my senses. to walk through the grass. J make this place smelk good. Yeah. mean it does smelk good up there, by the way, too. the cinnamon I get it the field right now. I get it. Yeah My wife's already got to Christmas decorations out. Yeah, I've seen that Sometimes it's too much, some. Sometimes it's too much. So what I didn't see was my present, but go ahead. No, Now you won't see that Eespecially now, maybe now This guy also said that he saw groceries spilled on the floor in the foyer. He later said in court that he was afraid something bad had happened to the guys And so he didn't want to wait for a warrant. And Obviously, you can get into that whole thing of probable cause or You know, you see something that allows you to not have to get a warrant. When he searched the home He found what was an unimaginable Sen He said there was blood everywhere on the carpet, it was up all the walls. Gibbs, he found Lisa Guy's severed head in a pot of boiling liquid on the stove. He found Joel Guy Sr.s severed hands on the floor of the bedroom. They found both of the couple's severed toros in plastic containers in the bath. But anger Well Yes, on the part of the person who did it. Yeah. Absolutely. I also think it's kind of a tough day. be this police officer. Really tough It's going to be hard to Not recall that again and again and again. Yeah, you're going have to live with that. He also stated that he saw scissors and clothing appeared to have been cut from a body as well as a large knife He sold bottles of peroxide, bleach, acid and rubbing alcohol. He said he could smell the stinch of death mixed with these chemicals vom It does, but it's really painting a picture. Sure sure is. Yeah. you know, the smell You're finding ahead. Biling on the stove severed you know hands Torsos Rough day ly For this individual who, you know was the first on the scene and and found everything Major Michael McLan told the Knoxville News Signal that Joel placed pieces of the bodies in an acid bed solution in an attempt to destroy evvidence He said that the solution that he used was composed of normal household chemicals and didn't require any special knowledge of Chemistry the type of stuff that you could buy straight off the end Can't you get off the internet? Well, yes, that's true. It's a little scary, I think ally scary. And that's not we're not even talking about the Dark Web. I don't fully understand the Dark Web. Oh yeah only explained by what I've seen in movies and stuff But it sounds like you can get just about anything you want off there. Yeah. I don't even think he's talking about that. I just think he's talking about Amazon. you can go on Amazon buy all these chemicals. putut them together and definitely surprising what you can get off of that site Well, but they're not made for that. No, no. Obviously, they have real intended purposes. But if you know how to use certain things or look up Yeah, you can Google all just about anything, right? That's a scary thing. The information is great the ability that we have, right The information at our fingertips is great The problem is if you have someone who's intent on doing something bad They can get information that they need pretty You know, how to make a pipe bomb. I'm sure it's out there. I've never looked for it. Yeah. it's out there. Okay I will take your word for it. but You know the What was the bombs they used in Columbine with the pressure cooker. Pressure cookers. Pressure cooker B. Boston Marathon too. Yes, that type of stuff scares me that it's all out there, but you know, it's kind of the the price that you pay having information, the good type of information.. You're going to have to live with that Freedom of information. being out there as well The Knoxville New Sentinel reported that Lisa and Joel Guy Sr. were last seen alive. onn Friday, when they moved a boat to a relative's house. So this is the day after Thanksgiving The house is sold They haven't transferred ownership yet They're still moving some stuff out I did talk about the house already being sold. You did. They're planning on moving Apparently the new owners, the people that bought the house They showed up while the forensics team was processing, removing evidence Imagine? No You know, again, I have no idea who bought this home.. It could have been their dream home. they're moving from this or their first home. I don't know But when you find out that onlyn were two people not only did two people die You al right there. because that to me, would be something to process. Sure We're talking about They were murdered And not only that, they were dismembered in a very gruesome fashion and found in different parts of the house. Yeah Now one central area, but Unfortunately scoutered about. I think I think we got to figure out how to back out of this sale Right. And we'll find something else. Yeah, because I'll never use that oven. No again the stove the bathtub we'll find out a lot of places where were used. Yeah. for things that you would never want to have to think about again. Eough bleach in the world. Especially every time you used it Yeah Where every time you stepped foot in that house? I I just wouldn't want to be in that h. Nore not no anymore. No, absolutely. I can't imagine anybody would Chime is fee free banking built for you. 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Shopify can help you build upon it Start your free trial on Shopify. com So I said it didn't take long to link Junior to the murders B that Tuesday The day after His mom didn't show up for work He was arrested outside of his apartment. by Knox County Sheriff's officers So they went down to Louisiana. That's where he was living They were joined by members of the East Baton Rouge parish shheriff's office The FBI Andy Swanty force ready to go. Well, they weren't messing around And now when he was arrested, it was noted that He had wounds to his hands We'll talk about those. Well, let's talk about it now. Basically what prosecutors later said at trial was that These wounds were slices. Yeah that he suffered his hands while he was struggling with his dad Be his dad just wasn't going to give up. No, and there was a lot in the information about The fact that his dad was bigger than him His dad was not a guy that he was just going to overpower Yeah Obviously probably had taken by surprise or some, you know, I type of force. Ill tell you what, Gibbs, I don't care you know, fifty five, sixty years old Some guys just have strength Yeah And Maybe a twenty eight year old poses no Um Shot at overpowering them not could work the other way. can easily because we lose muscle mass as we as we get older and all that stuff. But I've known some guys in their fifties, even into their sixties who were Um I call it Fmstrong R because of where I where we live yeah yeah. a lot of guys that I played basketball with When I was young forties, fifties, and sixties, they would show up at openp gym to play with us.. And these guys, their hands were like vices They got a hold of the ball There was nothing you could do because they worked in Concrete. They worked laying bricks or they worked on the farm Bailing hay or whatever it was. I can crack a walnut between my middle finger and my index finger Okay, I thought you were gonna go somewhere else with that Uh, I can pick up a court now, uh I thought you were gonna to go in a completely different direction. Yeah. So how does one find out that they can crack a walnut between fingers that shouldn't be used to crack it one day. I wanted to see if I could do it. All So you got some u Digit strength is what you're telling me So Joel Guy Junror was charged with two counts of first degree murder This happened in twenty sixteen. But his trial didn't begin until late. twenty twenty in this delay in large part seemed to center around a bunch of challenges by his public defenders on evidence searches We'll get into a little bit of of what those were, but they challenged everything, right? The search of his stuff at the house where the murders occurred He said, Well, he wasn't a resident So They didn't have any right to do it. They challenge the searches in Louisiana at his apartment It was a battle that dragged on for years. And then obviously, once it finally got settled, they could move forward with the trial You know, even before that, prosecution came out and said that They would not seek the death penalty Even though a lot of outlets reported that guy wanted it, he asked for it. He did We've heard that before. Yeah, sure I don't understand it. other than I think there are people who just say I don't want to spend the rest of my life in prison. Well he was twenty eight years old. So yeah No. It's a long time. You' been in prison the rest of your life. It is at that age It is So a jury of five men and seven women would decide his fate. It was reported by the Knoxville Sentinel that This was one of the first trials and definitely one of the most serious ones to be held in Tennessee since the pandemic started in earlier in March So You know, we're in that time frrame, right? twenty twenty. how many cases have we talked about where Trows got pushed back, got pushed back Apparently you know, he had tried to delay the trial citing his concerns about the pandemic. sure he was really worried about COVID, especially since he wanted it to ieie. So why would you care? but okay We know Yeah. We know what he was trying to do And I'm not making light of COVID at all or the pandemic, but We know what this guy was trying to do. So one of his sisters came out against the delay And according to the Tennesseean She appeared by video link in court from her classroom. She was a teacher And she told the judge, Judge Sord, that she was back to work Her children were attending school despite the pandemic She said, The world is continuing Why shouldn't the trial continue Y' are affecting the lives of other people I mean, it is a good point. I understand there were definitely precautions put in place. But the judge ultimately denied his request for a delay So authorities laid out their theory before the trial even starts And basically it was simple, right? They said that Lisa and Guy seem cold Joel Jr. that they were going to cut him off. Financially And so He decided to kill them and try to get money from their deaths Be he really thought that went through and that was going to work out in his favorite. That is pure greed, right? Right I mean, we know he's not the It's going to start to say You know, he's really not the smartest guy And I was going to say that because he's hasn't he doesn't really ever finish anything. Yeah, it it was said that he was I saw one word used that accademically he was wasn't The head of his class, he wasn't an overachiever or anything like that But obviously he graduated high school and went to college and did that star I call them floaters He flo. He wass floater. This is just gonna to float through life as long as he could. Oh, I definitely think by the end of this that will become apparent. Yeah. Yeah. there's no doubt about that. So just before the trial was set to start He essentially fired his attorneys and he made a motion to represent himself whichich I know you always love. Yeah. You get a kick out of that. That goes so well And so they went back and forth on that but it came out in the end that He really only wanted to represent himself on one issue. And it was this motion to force the state to execute him if he was found guilty He really wanted to die if he was found guilty. Yeah Please don't make me stay in jail prison a lifetime for a lifetime. So from what I understood is the public defenders wouldn't file it. And so that's what he had the beef with. Yeah. But once the judge kind of talked to him about it And they came to this understanding that that was really the only thing he was worried about The judge said, okay When it gets to that point, you can represent yourself and file your own motion And so he allowed the public defenders to Defend him and his trial Um And his defense attorneys did make a bunch of motions basically to try to keep people from testifying is some of his sisters Yeah, I'm sure it wasn't going to be good for him No No because And we'll talk about it maybe when we get to trial, but they they're going to say someome of the things that we've already said Their parents were going to cut him off. Yeah and some things like that. He also tried to keep out of evidence a recording of a jail phone call between himself and a guy named Michael McCracken really know who Michael McCracken is the papers didn't say relationship the two had On this he supposedly admitted to the murders. Be I guess he can't see that sign of both the phes as I said. This call is being recorded. Yeah, never. People never see it. They never think about it So I said that authorities originally came out and said that he decided to murder his parents after They said that they were going to cut him off When they got time to for trial though prorosecutors presented evidence that Joe Guy Jr. had a notebook in his backpack which tailed out How to commit the murders And he had it at the time that They all ate Thanksgiving dinner So like they're eating dinner. He's over there's like taking little notes and they're like, I don't he's studying for I don't think he was writing in the journal. I just think he had it with him. But what that means, right? Once that revelation comes out It means that he had already made the decision to kill Now maybe he knew preeditated. Yeah, o, we're going to talk about premeditation a lot. Yeah. But maybe he already knew that his parents were thinking about cutting him off. His his dad for sure had brought it up before. But later at trial, prosecutors told jurors that Joel Guy Jr. began to plan the murders as early as November Seven. Oh weeks. wee wee That time. Yeah. weeks before Thanksgiving I want to talk about this notebook, right? It was introduced at trial. It was a huge piece of evidence And I want to read just some of the entries from just one page of it It's a little lengthy, but it sheds so much light. And You know, all the papers mentioned that the prosecutors, they just kept bringing this notebook up They called it a book of premeditation basically what they called it in court So These are just bullet points that he had written down. R minimize things I touch throughout visit Wear gloves and socks to prevent fingerprints and footprints Drop something down the garbage disposal to break it Get him on the ground kill him with the knife. Clean up the mess from him before she gets home kill her with night takeake dog with you place her in the shower. Turn on hot water to get rid of forensics Remove her clothes and take with me Place him in plastic bins and use it to get him into the upstairs bathroom cut off his arm plant his flesh under her fingernails place her hand with his DNA so that His DNA is not washed away by the shower Wite down Kilom setet her phone to send me a text message on Sunday prove that I was in Bon Rouge When she was stol on Again, these are just some of the ones.. I just cherry picked out some of the entries that he had in he hit that he had in there disturbing Oh, very disturbing. I mean, according to the USA today, there were five pages of this stuff in this notebook The entries were very detailed and covered every little precise detail on commit the murders, how to dismember the bodies, how to dissolve them and even how much he would profit from his parents life insurance policies. Of course, he did his homework He did. Yeah It's a scary thing. There were even balance sheets kind of showed his parents assets and life insurance policies. The Knoxville New Sentinel reported that Lisa's insurance policy was structured so that her son and her husband the proceeds if she died first If her husband died first, then he would get it all There you go. So You know, when I read that, it does kind of make more sense that Maybe these three sisters were half sisters. belonging to his dad, right and that He was his Mother's only biological child, right When you read the structure of the life insurance policy That does make that does make some sense But I just read, you know, these things, right? It's kind of a to do list. You and I talked last week about people who make to do lists and like to check them off. I think there's a couple of things that you definitely see here One is premeditation. I think that's a no brainer If you're a killer, and you want to leave evidence of premeditation, Just do what this guy did. Just write down in the notebook every single thing that you plan to do Sve it. and save it. The other thing you see is just how callous that this guy was. streaming I mean, as I was kind of reading those You know, I'm I'm we always talk about The question, How could someone do something like this, like what we just talked about. to a parent, their parents, Could you even sit down and write this stuff Three weeks ahead of time thinking I'm going to carry these acts out against my parents. It's just it's just so callous. And the way the way that he wrote it you know, kill her Do this to him. veryery cold V very, very cold And, you know One thing that I really found interesting is that it came out in court that investigators found this backpack at his parents' house after the murders in the room where he was sleeping Here's the part that Well, besides murdering his parents, I just could not understand When you think about this notebook Okay. Five detailed pages. Yeah This guy went through all of the trouble planning to write down all of these entries to follow in a note And you said, Write it all down., save it thenen after he commits the murders He leaves the backpack with the notebook inside. Why? Doesn't make any sense, does not Right There were even entries about burning down the house to get rid of evidence, which we know he didn't do. Now prosecutors would later assert that The only reason he didn't follow his own entries was because of the injuries to his hands Right. He somehow got sliced in this tussle with his dad and they thought that That was the reason why he couldn't follow through on you know, all of the things that he had in his is not book You know, folks, it's summertime and that changes how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put together. And that's why I just keep coming back to Quint's. 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That's QuIncE dot com slash TCATT for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns Qince d. com slash TCat With the American Express Platinum card, I can unlock experiences like no other Since I'm always booking my next trip, I'd love that I can earn points on travel. Plus, I get a resi benefit, so you know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about. And you can find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as one hundred seventy five thousand points. For experiences like No other, there's nothing like platinum. Learn more at Americanexpress dot com slash explore dash platinum. terms apply. It was also reported during the trial that while he was in jail You know, he's a he's a waiting trial He tried to collect on the life insurance. Really? Yeah? He wrote to the life insurance company I hereby assert the continuing validity of my claims. to the insurance proceeds Totaling six hundred ninety six thousand six hundred and sixty six dollars and sixty eight cents plus applicable interestnterest. So not only is he trying to get the money He wants interest on top of that. Yeah. wow. Okay Wow, he's on trial, waiting to go on trial. for the murders You know, I guess he spent a lot of time corresponding with his life insurance and it actually turned in, I didn't go into it in detail, but it actually turned into kind of a courtroom battle as well the insurance company saying, Well, we know we got to pay someone Right But we don't want to pay him What he would say is that until I'm a convicted murderer That rule doesn't kick in So you should pay me And it was a back and forth and I mean, they never did, but He kept pressing it and pressing Yeah You know, when you You know, we're not going to get real in depth with the trial But suffice to say It was pretty hard for him to get out from under this notebook R It was very detailed not only gave the reasons for the murder but also how it was to be committed. And um Most of the paper said that His defense team. they didn't ask a lot of questions. They didn't really present evidence. Yeah. I don't know what they could have done Yeah, It didn't look good for from the get go. So what are you going to do to R I don't think you want to give them anything more than they already have and you could risk that by going too far with your Well, my my kind of thought was You're probably not going ask too many questions of these witnesses because you don't want to hear what they have to say. Exactly None of the questions or none of the answers, I should say, are probably going to paint your defendant in a good light you can be crafty in the questions, but You also you have some people who can be real crafty with their answers. Exactly. So I kind of get it. I think they were they were in a tough spot. Oh for sure. No doubt about it. Prosecutors told the jury that Joel Guy Sr sustained forty two wounds Lisa Sustain thirty one. and we talked about it, right? This was a very gruesome scene that jurors had to hear about And you know that the prosecution had to lay it all out there. Every single nasty detail. But his Fam to he Well, yeah, I mean, but I think also You want to paint this guy Truly is the monster. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. this is the time to do it. So as much as you would really hate for these jurors to have to kind of see all these pictures and hear all the details You kind of got to do it. This is your one opportunity to put the casees forward as best as you can. Yeah, and you want them to see him as the absolute monster that he was. his sister testified against him as did some other people. likeike I said, we're not going to go into a lot of detail. trial I wanted this episode to be a little bit shorter just because it's Thanksgiving week. Yeah. I got four things to to edit. Right. But I also thought this was a very fascinating case. It is. But again, I want to go back to the note such a huge piece of evidence Basically what the prosecutors did with it is they would read entries out of the notebook And then they would tie evidence that they had to the entry, right So one would be like Um Sedgehammer crush bone Well, they found a sledge haammer at the scene. Yeah So re pretty easy to tie those two together Another red G killing number foundound the knives at the scene Everything was lining up. Yeah. You know, just like leaving the notebook It seems to me as though He followed some of the instructions that he had written down They didn't really follow any of the instructions regarding Cleaning up, disposing of clothes. Get rid of the notebook. Get rid of the notebook, disposing of the bodies You know, and you kind of have to think about Okay, why was that wasas it as the prosecutors asserted that Okay, he got his hands cut up. and He just couldn't do certain things O was it that he got to a certain point in this whole nastiness and just was like, I can't do this anymore. rightight? Yeah. I don't know. know that he He's ever said anything about it He didn't take the stand. so possibility though. There's I thought maybe it maybe it was because he would have sustained those cuts before didid some of the the nasty things that that he did. So he was able to to use his hands at that point So I wasn't sure about that The Knoxville New Sentinal reported that prosecutors Sanchez and Nassios, soldiers in their closing arguments that guysu were planning to retire and they were planning to quit paying their son's bills. Joe Guy Juni. was then twenty eight years old had never held a job and had been taking college courses For a decade. Wow. By that point, sureure Yeah is they're trying to hammer home The reason why H being cut off would be devastating say him The guys wanted to retire and they deserve to retire The motive is pretty apparent in this case, it's money half a million dollars in life insurance proceeds That's what this case is about They brought up that date, november seventh as the date when He decided to kill his parents And they backed it up. by telling and showing the jury That's when he started going out to different stores buying knives Chemicals plastic sheeting All the stuff that Dexter. W have W have bought would have had on him all the things that this guy would have needed to carry out his plan. and they obviously had done all the research and investigation by this point, they had the receipts. they could tie him. to all this stuff. And that's really how they came up with the november seventh You don't go out to buy all the stuff that you eventually use in a murder If you're not already planning on, you know, doing something prettyty bad was definitely true peaking of Deaxter. I think anybody who has watched that show kind of knows that Dexter went out of his way, right? He might buy plastic sheeting here He's going to buy something else in a much different place at a different time That's why Dexter was Dexter Yeah, part of the reason why maybe he got away with it as long as he did. Right I also think about breaking bath You know, Walt kind of did the same thing. He did He wouldn't buy all of his supplies at one store. So he didn't have a big shopping cart full of everything that he needed to make the math You buy a little, you know, you'd buy one thing here and one thing over here and M to it off any radars. Yeah Um Guy Jr.' public defenders Like I said, they really presented no evidence on his behalf Joel Jr. didn't take the stand, already said that. Really all his defense team tried to do. call into question any forensic and tell the jury that This wasn't a man s on committing two murders And they they tried to back that up by saying Yeah, he was happy at Thanksgiving. Even his sisters said he was happy at Thanksgiving Yeah, but they don't know. what was he thinking Be before he got there, right? Yeah. there's weeks that added up to Thanksgiving. Well also If your plan is to wait for everybody, you know, a lot of the family to leave. And you're planning on doing this the next day, the day after. Are you going to sit there and be sullen and nasty? No. No, you're going to put on your happy face, which is actually what the prosecutors came back and said or You know, he put on an act because That's what he wanted his sisters to think. Hey, he's doing good. He's happy. He's in a good place. He got his sisters toief? I think they werere going to leave anyway, but They got them not to think or You know question, what's going on with Joel Jr.? Right? No, he seemed he seemed fine, normal We're not worried about him. But really, you know, when it comes back to the defense gives, what could they do with this kind of mountain of evidence against them attack the science the testing, which defense attorneys always try to do. and then use the old the They'll use his own sister's testimony kind of against him in saying that He seemed fine Thanksgiving Oh, well then he couldn't be a murder But we know that's not true. That's not true. Exactly right. His trial only lasted four days, prettyretty short. It is short After three hours of deliberation on Friday, october second, twenty twenty The jury found him guilty of two counts of first degree murder Three counts of felony murder and two counts of abuse of a court. Judge Sword imposed an automatic life sentence with the possibility of parole after fifty one years for each of the murder convictions Whd he knew he wasn't going to get the death penalty.. They weren't even going after that But They didn't rule at the time or the judge didn't rule at the time whether these sentences were going to be cononsecutive or concurrent. That's a big deal. It is a big R concurrent St still life ss You're still not coming up for parole for fifty one years. Yeah He's going to be seventy nine years old? Yes. No, no, I'm sorry. because No what it goes back. It goes back. It goes back. So seventy nine years. Yeah. eighty years, whatever, giveive or take. So Basically what the judge said was that he was gonna to have a hearing later on termin it That hearing, as reported by the Knoxville New Sentinel, was held on november nineteenth And at the hearing, The judge ruled that the life sentence sentences were to be served one after another Okay, so two life sentences Yeah, but to me the parole Right is the big deal. Yeah Right because Now does that mean you're not eligible for one hundred and two years I look at it because it's not concurrent, it's consecutive Either way, it doesn't seem as though This guy will probably barring some type of appeal or Something happening, I just don't think he'll ever get out So And I don't think he should get out I would have been okay If They would have gone after him for the death penalty if he would have you know ultimately been executed, I would have been okay with I'm totally fine with a life sence. What I would not want is for this individual to really ever re enter society Ao No You shouldn't You know, the judge also tacked on an additional four years for abusing a corpse He really chastised this guy. He called the crime pure evil overkill. That sounds like something you would say. I would. because you do like talk about overkill They say it a lot The judge said This is the most extreme abuse of a corpse case I've seen in twenty five years, and I hope it's the most serious that I'll see in my career It was bad I don't know how many judges have seen that type of stuff Yeah, I wouldn't want tona see those photos, those videos of the crime scene, none of that I mean, judges see a lot of really bad stuff. They do. We always talk about juries. We don't really talk about judges that much because it's kind of their job But I think it's gott to rough on them to see so much carnage and in death and Bad people doing bad things.