Trial and Sentencing of Kenneth Burno

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Hello everyone and welcome to episode five hundred nine of the True Crime All the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime Mike Gibson give me how you. I'm doing good man. five hundred nine Crazy, isn't? Isnt that like a pair of jeans? F five hundredzer nine, yeah I think so. Button fly. Is that the button fly?. I don't do button fly Seems like a lot of work I will not There would be a lot of work as opposed to like one zip I had them at one point when they first came out I think there's like five buttons. It's a It's too much, too much. I'm with you All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Cime all the time? I am. We're talking about John Davis. In december two thousand one, John Davis was shot execution styed inside his car in the Philadelphia area. John had hundreds of dollars in cash with him but none of it was stolen leading investigators to dig into his personal life. to search for a mode. money to have on hand. It is. And I mean, if you're again, I know I've talked about it before, but If you're going to cross the line. and murder someone. Would you not their money as well You don't have a lot of scruples, obviously I mean Regardless of why I would shoot somebody I would still take the money to Throw off. investig And that's a good point because if you don't take the money, if you don't take watches or rings or anything like that retty hard. for police to think that this is some type of Robbery gone wrong. Yeah. sccenario So what are they going to lean into? Maybe it's someone that this person knew, someone who had a grudge against him or something like that. So yeah, to your point It's like if you're trying to throw police off, well, you're not really doing a good job if you're not going to take any valuable. Yeah ir Not what I would do based on my past experience saying, no, you have a lot of John Davis was a night manager at a David's bridal warehouse in Lafayette Hill unincorporated community in White Marsh Township which is a suburb of Philadphia. You've been to Davidis Prattle I have. Yeah, actually actually just spent a bunch of money there a few months ago. Oh yeah. I'm pretty pretty sure that's where my daughter got her dress. You can get you can get txes there too or rent txes from them, I think I remember right. I don't know. I'm hoping to never have to do that again. Well, you do have one other daughter. That is true. So maybe one more time and then never again. Yeah, not more than one more time Oh was that what she said? No, I said never.. But now that you mentioned it Definitely not more than one more time. Unless you want to renew your valves because, you know, not wearing to touch for that. Okay. And didn't have to wear a tckx for my oldest daughter's wedding because it was in Jamaica. Still win full suit though for some reason. And you just love that suit too. Oh yeah gangbusters until I started sweating in it and then it's felt like u What I assume a wetsuit feels like that you use to scuba dive this John's coworker, Bobby Woodson, only knew him for a few months, but in that time John took him under his wing. and became a father figure. In his interview for the show Philly Homicide, Bobby said that John was a life changing individual with an off to charge personality, He was great at team building and motivating people in the workace He was community oriented and volunteered with YMCAs in the Philadelphia area Team building and motivating people. M that is you back in the day. You know? I wasn't going toot my own horn, but that was one of my strong suits. We're definitely a Somebody can motivate people. And I am a life changing individual as I told myself, I don't think I've ever been told that but you could Got got a track record there. Yeah posossibly Am I veryery community oriented I'd have to say that have to say no to that. That's just a hard no. It's a hard no. Unfortunately, I wish I did more volunteer work, but I don't It requires you to go up those steps that door. If I could volunteer here in the basement in some form or fashion, I would look into that They normally want you to come to a certain place. They do to volunteer It was also said that John saw potential in people who didn't see it in themselves And that's definitely me because I saw a potential in you You saw none in yourself when I first hired you. You barely see any in you now And I actually somehow see less than I did back then. Yeah I think I probably proved you wrong You know, where you thought you saw potential, you're like, you know what? Mbe I just never saw what I thought I saw. Now to be honest with you, you know climb the ranks, you've done a lot in your time at the place where we both worked. so all right. You've done allright, man John was also a family man and he loved his children. He had three children with his ex wife, Kimberly Williams Although they were no longer together by two thousand one John remained a devoted father. and We talk about divorce a lot It just comes up in many, many cases You know, marriages don't work out But when you have kids So important Right? to stay in in their lives and be a mom or dad whichever one you are So that's good to hear Important Get that connection At the time of his death, He was in a relationship with a woman named Tamera Walz John was killed on the evening of december seventeenth, two thousand one hortly after he left the David's Bridal warehouse the last person to see him alive wasas his coworker, Bobby Woodson. John and Bobby were working that night in the warehouse Bobby noticed it at one point John was at his desk on the phone He also saw that John was texting someone And he didn't seem happy He asked John what was going on John said he got a call from a woman he dated in the past. and she wanted to meet up that night. He was skeptical because he hadn't seen her in a while He thought she wanted to meet up to tryry to rekindle things but he seemed apprehensive. Apparently, John even said to Bobby, I wonder if I'm being set up Yeah, So then you think, what does that mean? Like set upp how like They're going to rob me or set up she's going to say that Maybe she's preregnant. you know, I'm a dad now. Yeah. But here's the thing If you've got those kind of thoughts swirling around Maybe you just say no I'm good. I'm happy with with what I currently have. Yeah. I mean, he's in a relationship with someone Um, maybe you don't need to meet this person John and Bobby had a bit of trouble with setting the alarm, but they got it sorted and walked out of the warehouse at nine hundred five PM They talked a little bit you know, in the parking lot att nine thirty PM Bobby said goodbye to Joh and gotten in his car As he was backing out, he saw John getting into his car As he drove out of the parking lot He saw John's car lights on and assumed everything was fine. And it seems like I could understand why that seems like a fairly normal interaction, right? You lead together. You spend a little bit time out by your car talking, shooting the bull And then, you know, you leave His car lights are on. the car's on. so some He's going to be leaving shortly? Yeah. no problem On the morning of december eighteenth, two thousand one An employee opening up the warehouse saw John's van in the parking lot with the engginine still running He recognized that it belonged to John He thought John might be asleep, so he knocked on the window, but receiveed no response He opened the door and saw blood everywhere John had been shot in the back of the head at close range It appeared someone had been waiting in the back of his van to shoot him That's a scary thought. It is a scary, you know, thought. thinking that somebody's been waiting there all night till the end of your shift to come out there to Execute you. Well in the van idea, right Depending on what type of van it is It might be some places for people to hide. Yeah. It's not like you got a four door car and you can pretty much see what's going on in the backseat as you walk up. I mean You know, they' times and You know that when I went to my vehicle I would look You know See who' Hopefully nobody look like this So are you already pass the car? Okay, because it looks like you're already in the car and you're just looking backwards. That doesn't say by that time it's too late. Yeah ye yeah, yeah, no. You gotta look before get in the car back there. I haven't had to do that in a long time though, know, so I'm not worried about it so I don't even look at it. man, I just get in the car. Oh Well, now you just told everybody you don't look If they want to come after you, that's the way to get you, I guess I' got cameras my car now I mean, obviously For this person. Oh. Wored with John, knew John Or even if you didn't know the person, this is a traumatic scene, right? You're opening up a door and finding someone shot to death, blood everywhere Now robbery didn't appear to be the motive because John's vehicle hadn't been stolen for one And his wallet was there with about seven hundred dollars of cash inside It's a nice healthy chunk of cash. Yeah Whoever shot John was meticulous in making sure they left no fingerprints behind Is that because they wiped the van down? Or more than likely because they use gloves. Yeah, they probably had gloves on. That would be my thought John's coworkers were in complete shock when they learned he'd been murdered Especially Bobby Wilson who had just seen him Bobby's girlfriend verified he was at home the entire night Yeah, obviously Bobby being the last one to known to have seen John. Yeah He is going to be questioned. He's going to be a person of interest. Makes sense. But it sounds like he's got a pretty good alibi Yeah Uh, at least As good of one as you can have where one person is vouching for where you were. Yeah It's like multiple people are saying he was there No and it's not like he's caught on camera at a store You know, it's not like he clocked in at work, you know, there are some varying degrees of ala Yeah And, you know, for me The worst is, well, I was at home, but I live alone, so There's really nobody who can verify it. And then, you know, a step above that is someone your mom, your girlfriend, whoever verifying that you were with them. All night long. And you've used that one many times. I have I've used you as an alibi many times. tooook up for you, even though I wasn't with you. Both ways. It's happened both ways. Let's not kid ourselves. You know, You would want to think that people would tell the truth wouldn' lie, but as we know Mom's life for sons. wives life for husbands, husband's life for wives, it does happen Other coworkers agreed that John was a terrific guy with no enemies when the police informed John's girlfriend, Tamera of his death She was down the state Tamera said, she was at a friend's house on the night of december seventeenth. She spoke to John on the phone at nine forty PM as verified by you would think Okay, that's not an our ironclad alibi But it's not horrible if it's thought that he was killed right around this time. right because They're talking on the phone My assumption is You would think they'd be able to figure out where that call was on the other Yeah in regenerated from. and you know, if they're talking on cell phones unless she's right next to him or somewhere on the street about ready to strike Probably not hert. I think if you're the police, you're probably thinking. Tamera told investigators that the beginning of their relationship wasn't ideal They met when John was still married. to his ex wife, Kimberly Williams John left Kimberly to be with Tamara and things got a little messy accccording to Tamera The divorce was contentious And Tamera suggested that perhaps Kimberly wanted to hurt Jh. because they had recently decided they wanted to get married. I mean Corn woman. can be dangerous. can be dangerous, you know? When you tell partner, you're leaving them for somebody else G'onna to go over great Then there's the the divorce And then when they find out you're gonna marry this woman You left them for Okay Maybe a motive there. Y When the police interviewed Kimberly, They were surprised to hear a completely different story She said the divorce was amicable There was no resentment between them And John was an excellent father to their kids. This wasn't what detectives expected to hear from a woman who supposedly hated Jhs Well, you know, Um, maybe She's not being truthful or maybe John told Mura What he thought. He wanted to tell her like, o, yeah. We're not good. She was nasty to me and Yeah. sometimes people do that, right? They try to Make that person sound worse than they really are, make them sound better. Sure Could it also be that Kimberly after finding out that he was dead D didnn't want to make him look bad, maybe. I mean there's a number of possibilities Kimberly said, she was at work on the night of the seventeenth and her kids were with her mother She went straight home after work Pleice verified Kimberly's phone work and by interviewing her Through all that, they were able to you know verify her alibi It's not bad if we're raiding alibis as we've been doing No, I mean, so it sounds like So far people closest to him. are in the clear Bars. individually doing something. At the very least, they have someone Boutching children couldould alibis be a lie Yeah, but in the case of Kimberly, obviously people would have known whether she was at work or not. Yeah her phone records and then her mother vouching for hds. It's not just one person There's a little bit more to it. Uh, didnt than some of the other ones we've talked about John's autopsy determined he was shot with a thirty eight caliber revolver The examiner found Two more bullets in John's torso They were fired from the same gun But the shots came from different angles Investigators wondered if one person fired from three directions or the same gun was fired by a second shooter. That's strange. It is So either One person moved around while firing shot Yeah. or fired some of the shots and then handed the gun over to someone else in a different position I think I would Lean more to the One person maybe moving around Yeah, it could have been a second shooter in there that they tossed the gun to and say You go ahead and shoot a few times now. Yeah. I mean, have there been cases where to share blame peopleople have both or maybe even more. fired shots into someone as kind of a I don't know what you want to call it, but a un unity of killing Like you can't you can't go to the police on me because you did the same thing. Yeah. We all three or both of us or however many people it Do I feel like we've done a case like that in the past? I think we have.' not I'm blanking on which one it was, ye On december nineteenth, police did follow up interviews with John's coworkers That was when Bobby Woodson called John telling him about a woman wanted to meet up with him and his nervousness about this meeting. Police found a voicemail on John's work phone. from a woman named Verneell. said she planned to meet him at nine thirty PM. Berneell Jones was a former employee the David's Brid Wareouse One employee recalled specific incident where Verneel left work And an hour and a half later A man showed up in Vernell's car and asked to speak to John He warned John to stay away from her and then he left want to mess around with somebody else's woman. No, You know, if you're the police, now you have to check this out. sureure you do, right She wants to meet him around nine thirty This would be Right around the time that Bobby left Yeah. And if they believe that he was killed not long after that or was ambushed not long after Bobby left be about the right time for it, it would be Now you have this thought that Well, maybe there's u a man who was in her life who was telling John to stay away from her Gotta talk about motives, right? It's all about motive in some of these cases Police traced the phone number to an insurance company in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania Detectives found the woman who the number belonged to She said it was her extension, but she didn't make the call For now, Jones Gerneel made several phone calls On december seventeenth She overheard Verneell telling someone She would meet them between nine thirty and ten She asked them not to tell anyone she was coming She also saw her now Make a phone call to her boyfriend about meeting with a man For me, it's the don't tell anyone I'm coming part that would make me suspicious and maybe that's part of what was making him so apprehensive Yeah, and that makes sense I would definitely be nervous if someone said, Hey, I need to meet you at nine thirty, but don't tell anybody that I'm coming And let's me let's meet in a very secluded spot Then you also have this person overhearing her call Um boyfriend and talk about the fact that she's meeting up with a man Well either She's not trying to keep it a secret and doesn't care if her boyfriend knows about it or there's a little more to it And he's he's a part of whatever is going to happen at this meeta I mean, knowing what happens, you kind of think that maybe There's something shady going on Yeah he dies. I think if you're the investigators, you're right now, pretty intntrigued. Yeah, there defin suspicion. byy these phone calls, the The idea that this meet upp was set to occur The idea that she's communicating with her boyfriend and wondering if this boyfriend is the man who threatened, you know John at his workplace Ever notice how life's best stories don't happen in your living room? They happen on the open road, out on the water, or parked under the stars. At Progressive, they get that you want to focus on the experience, not worry about the what ifs And that's why they offer quality insurance designed for your ride whether that's a boat, RV or motorcycle. adventure with confidence Visit progressive. com and see how easy it is to protect your favorite way to get away. Progressive casualty insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in DC. Prices vary based on how you buy. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at progressive. com. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary not available in all states Berneel was quickly becoming the prime suspect So please started digging into her background She was a singer who dreamed of making a bit Berneell and her sisters formed a girl group called Surprise. in which Verneel was the lead singer. You're going to see at the u perform tonight sururprise Now you can tell me go ahead Yeah I'm not going, so you don't need to leave it a surprise. Just tell me. It's like a bad habit costella routine. As she booked more gigs She started missing work and You know, this band was K kind of popular locally, right It took them a while to get gigs. And so for that reason, Veru had to get a nine to five job That job was at David's Bide. But when you get more gigs and you start missing work, well, Eventually you're going get fired and she did get fired from David's braother Berneel eventually started dating her manager. Kenneth Burner Kenneth also had an interesting background. He attended a performing arts high school A few choir students were chosen to be part of a group called Unique attractions went to churches around the city making a name for themselves The even saying for music executive Michael Bibbittt change their name Boys. Wate a minute about that ABC, BBD When Kenneth was supposed to sign his contract He found out his girlfriend was pregnant. and decide to leave the music industry for a more stable Cer. That was a horrible decision I hate to, you know, bag on people, but That's like the guy who Sold is u his Walmart stock worth aboutbout three thousand dollars because he needed a new Riding lawn mower? Yeah And today that stock would be like worth tens to twenty million dollars. I forget. They have a thing at the headquarters of Walmart. Yeah. That about the world's most expensive tractor. Yeah, That would be rough It would be. But obviously, you know, boys to men was It was a big group. It was it was a big group. Back in our day, especially. had several hit songs They did I don't know if they're still together or they still perform sometimes Mend to in. Men to Oer men I crreack myself up. Men to elderly men Yeah Dads to grandpa's.. something, somethingomet like that But they have to be Our age at the very least, right? I seen David Lee Roth out there still performing and Rod Stewart and I think it's all video of Frankie Valley. It looked like a like keep was A ghost whereere you borring a ghost? It didn't even look believable. Yeah like Well, you know Rod Stewart was performing at Caesar's palace when we were there. I heard for Crime Con Yeah. and he had to cancel his show due to some health issue I just saw something the other day where he was performing and he got U I't get stopped go on oxygen for a little bit. Man's one hundred and forty five years old. M. No, I'm just kidding, but u he's up there I mean, sometimes you just got to retire. Well, and that's the thing, right with me It's not like he doesn't have more money than he can ever spend. It should be set pretty well But I think for a lot of people you know, the idea of walking away from the spotlight is probably a little tough when you've had it and been in it for sixixty years. I mean, how long has he been performing? R eighty. I'm sure yeah, it probably feeds you, you know, feeds the soul. Ego and all of that Yeah, I so another thing we're Tiffany from the eighties. I can't remember this all, Tiffany? Yeah. Yeah, Still out there performing M crowds, but, you know whatever about Kenn's brother Lamar said he wanted to go to college and get a degree, so he would always have something to fall back on It's not not bad thinking. No, it's really whole hard to fault somebody for that. Now in hindsight, right? you can say if you had a chance to be part of Bys to men Well, that was a big mistake. Yeah but it's really hard to say, o it's a bad idea to go back and get your education because For most of us, that's what will carry us on through to retire I mean, it's kind of like when the athletes go to college, you say you should finish and get your degree before you move to the next level A lot of them don't. You know, especially in basketball because it's so lucrative for them to move up Yeah, they're going to make millions and millions of dollars For how long though' Itesn't matter Like money you can never get r Now they do. Some of them go through it like crazy and end up bankrupt, which I'll never understand. but But a lot of them do leave early but they go back and get their degree. G their degree anyway. Like during the off season. Yeah. I've seen that. Kenneth regreted his decision to leave Unique attraction, but he decided he would get back into the music industry as a manor He saw potential in Verelgia and thought he could help her become famous Kenneth was still married when he started managing Verneell. He took care of Vernell financially is a marriage eventually ended and he and Verneell dated for five years I'm guessing your marriage probably would end if you're taking care of another woman financially Yeah. now he might have said, you know, this is an investment. I think she's going to be a big star When you work with someone closely Things can happen When detectives ask forneell to come in for an interview She brought Kenneth with her She explained that she met John at the warehouse and they dated on and off casually She asked him to get a drink with her on december seventeenth because she was trying to make Kenneth jealous. But she backed out at the last min Sometimes guys do get jealous when they see the woman I having a drink with somebody else And But's be honest Sometimes women do things to make us jealous on purpose because We're not doing what we're supposed to be doing. We're not paying enough attention, whatever it is or find somebody else that we willll give them that attention for a little bit You went down a Different path there, but little dark, I got you She said she was with Kenneth the entire night exxcept for about a half hour period During that time, she stayed at home Detectives took note of Kennis's demeanor during the interview. He acted sympathetic towards Verneell, but really He seemed interested in knowing the details of the crime which is I guess from a a true crime Fan Yeah That wouldn't be all that odd it's Give me the details. I w want to hear B to investigators that might seem strange if they're looking at you and all you seem to want to know about is the details, especially if you want to know what they know. 'acause that's a red flag. right? We all know that Kind of wonder, you know, the last 'd take ten years, maybe tend to fifteen years, maybe a little bit longer. you would know better than I Now that true crime is as popular as it is. I wonder how that is either hindered or help investigators Now when they talk to People of interest, Witnesses It's like are people jumping in with their own theories and Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, on the one hand, I would think plethora of true crime content. And let's not forget The shows, the NCISs and the You know, all of those types of forensic shows and CSIs I would think Perpetrators would be a lot more knowledgeable today about to do and what not to do But you know, getting back to your point, I also think There is so much interest. in true crime cases that Yeah, I think People are trying to get details and they didn't have anything to do with the crime. they're just fascinated. Right. Yeah. And they just want to know where maybe as in the sixties or seventies, if you did that, man, they were they really thought you they were locked in. You were locked in. you did something So They're they're kind of gauging his demeanor Verneell was released due to a lack of evidence, but she did remain on police radar Please talk to Verneel's family see if she had a history of violence with her romantic partners provide the list of her ex boyfriend onene of whom was Ronald Humphrey a Philadelphia firefighter Police interviewed Ronald on december twenty first, two thousand one Investigators asked if Verneel was ever violent with him To their surprise, Ronald responded That bit shocked me And I know it's not funny. No it's not. But it does make you laugh because it's such a strange answer Yeah. I mean, he could have said Yeah, she was a violent person. She actually shot me one Yeah. But he just came out and said So he and Verneell secretly dated between July and august two thousand one Kenneth Burnno found out and confronted Ron at the fire station. in front of his corer He had no contact with her until october fifth, two thousand one She called him several times out of the blue and was quote begging him to hook up Maybe I need it Let's get together. Well, here's the other thing. there's a lot of people meeting in secret here. There is in all of these relationships What Very strange. It is. so he agreed to meet her That evening they went to a bar. then to a secluded area of Fairmont Park He said Verneell performed oral sex on him She then said she had to go to the bathroom She left his vehicle and returned a couple minutes later. She opened the door and shot him with a revolver. bullet hit his upper right arm That's a differenterent type of fantasy I think that's no one's fantasy The first part is, don't get me wrong, but the second part is not is a strange role play. People are into some strange things but getting shot after uh Fallatio, I don't believe is is one of them Did you see what she I did Drop that bomb on you U So the Philadelphia PD investigated the shooting At the time, Ronald didn't tell the police that Verneell shot him because He was in a relationship with someone else. And that's the problem with sneaking around with people. Yeah. You can't be completely honest because that person's going to find out and then That person's going to want to shoot you. You've already been shot. Just stay with the person you're with. know Is it that hard just to be with the person? It is for some people You know, some people have a hard time with that detectives noticed that details of his story were similar to the circumstances surrounding John Davis's m Police also knew John was shot with a revolt And we set it right, specifically a thirty eight caliber. Investigators recovered the bullet from Ronald's truck and compared it to the bullets found in John's body They came from the same thirty eight caliber revolt We have The gun being used eun Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what's important. It's not just the fact that Both shootings involved a thirty eight caliber revolver Yeah They were The same thirty eight caliber revolver On december twenty third, two thousand one, Berneel was charged with third degree murder and conspiracy for the death of John David And, you know This Ballistic match It's fascinating, man. I'm telling you the forensics behind We talked about it in our TCat or we will talk about it in the one coming out on Sunday. we've already recorded it. but You know, the forensics played a big part in that one is Well did and Not TCat or Patreon. Patreon episodes. I get confused. We're recording so many different episodes, but Forensics played a big part in that one as well And I still can't help but think, man, if I had to do it over and I could go back and tell my nineteen year old self, first I'd be like, Hey, there's going to be this thing called podcast get in on that on the ground floor, even earlier than we did Short of that, I'd say you should probably look at going into some type of forensics because I think you'd really like that I also think you'd go back and tell your nineteen year old self. Keep that Walmart stock, donon't buy that tractor Yeah. U alsoso by Amazon, ye Google 'll be like Biff Tan, whatever his name Biff and backack to the future So she's charged with third degree murder Montgomery County Deputy DA Reisa Ferman described Verneell as a modern day black widow And I'm telling you if you're a woman do not want to be called a black widow. It'sot a good thing. No, you are a stone cold That's what black widows are onn january tenth, two thousand two She was charged with aggravated assault for the shooting of Ronald Humphrey When Verneel was arrested, Kenneth called various lawyers to see if they would take her case She called or he called and visited Verneel often and wrote her letters At first, detectives thought he was a loving boyfriend. they started to suspect that he was coaching her on what She should tell the police They believed Kenneth was involved in some way but they needed evidence to prove it Well if you go back to You know what they thought about the shooting They thought Either somebody shot him in the back of the head and then moved the gun around and shot orr there was a second shooter. that maybe the gun got tossed to and said You know, now you you shoot them here and there. Yeah. maybe this is where they're headed Which still seems strange. I mean, Why not just have two different guns? but I agree with you. whyy why takeake one and toss it around pass it around to someone else to do shooting unless like I said, it was some kind of It was more symbolic. Yeah. As in like we're in this together. I'm doing it, but you got to do it too type of deal. We' both put our hand on the trigger together, but we can't with this gun so we have to pass it back and. Yeah, something to that effect This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at progressive. com. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states Before I switched to Wealthfront, my API was probably zero point one. Once I switched to chitching. With the Wealthfront cash account, earn up to four point two percent API on your cash. I can trust Wealthfront is taking care of me. Make your money earn more. Get started at wealthfront d. com Cllients paid one thousand dollars for their testimonials cing conflict of interest. How come sry. point percent, APy as of january thirtieth twenty six is representative variable and earned on fund sw to program bank. point fivecent new cli boost for three months and up to one hundred fifty thousand dollars. Directposit one thousand dollars a month fund invest account for a point fivecent increase Cash account offered by Wealthfront broer LLC member Fer ICn a Eventually, Kennis visits and calls dropped off Berneell's family informed her that He was cheating on Do doesnesn't surprise me because apparently no one in this story can be faithful to one person. No Everybody is cheating on someomeone with at least one person, sometimes multiple people. So Why is that a bad idea though Cheating in this specific instance, if you're kided Oh, I mean, for Kenneth, it's not Look You're in a love triangle or I don't even love tryang way would you call that? It is a hot mess. The whole thing is a hot mess. But if he had anything to do with it Yeah It could be used against him. I mean She's not going to have the slightest Pause now Right? You start cheating on this woman You stop calling her and you stop visiting her And she's got something on you, she's coming after you. She's coming after you because you've done, you know, ticked her off So think you'd want to like keep close to her and like baby. Oh yeah. I know you're It doesn't look good for you. I'm here for you though. Not real smart. No. Now we don't know that he had anything to do with it, but Please think he does. And then Verneel finally did agree to talk to the police On august twenty first, two thousand two, she decided to take a plea bargain She pleaded guilty to aggravated assault for the Ronald Humphrey shooting and received a ten year sentence As part of her plea deal, she gave the detailed statement. In her statement Verneell described how Kenneth was a jealous controlling boyfriend He controlled Wh she could talk to? where she could go and how much she could spend She had to call him several times a day check in. She wasn't allowed to have a pager Let's remember, this is like, early two thousands. So pagers were a big deal. She could only use a phone that Kenneth paid for so that he could keep track of all of her calls She had to give him every check she made. He was also physically and sexually abusive punched her in the face and forced her to get a tattoo that said one hundred percent Kay's bitch. Wow, man This rough. That is rough I mean, you are you're making money And every time you get paid, you're essentially handing the entire check to him. Yeah And he's forcing you to get a tattoo No You have a similar tattoo that says You know Gibbies be a one hundred percent. O percent, I will say Your wife's name Yeah that would be more accurate. Yeah. But I don't know, it just, um And then that the idea that he's phhysically, sexually abusive doesn't shock me in the slightest. No. with what we've been talking about And maybe that's why she's seeking No sideide romances or can't even call them romances, but side action. Possibly yeah Things reached a breaking point in the summer of two thousand one Kenneth accused her of sleeping with his cousin He worried what his friends and family would think if they knew he stayed with a woman who had been with another family. get the family involved. And I would say for most people, that is probably a deal breaker. I would think so. I mean, cheating of any kind is usually a deal breaker for many Having sex with my cousin We' definitely gott to draw the line somewhere. Come on now. Really ruins the family reunion. the holidays. Thanksgivings are awkward. Yeah, justust family togeteters ye So here's what Kenneth did He required Verneel to write down all the myth thought She had a sexual relationship with One of the men on the list was the cousin. He accused her of having sex with The second was another cousin who was on the list simply because He knew about Kenneth's Suspicion, okay So I'm not sure maybe she didn't actually u have sex with this cousin, but she He was on the list anyway. The third was a man named Larry Tucker a former coworer of Vernell's He never had a sexual relationship with her. Kenneth thought she did And this is what was so striking to me He didn't ask for now For her to write a list. Yeah of the people she had been with. right He wrote a list of the people he thought she had been with who I think you've been with Wh is so strange. Stange The list has two of his cousins on I always saw you look at What's his name I know you had to be with him. But I do think he's got some very serious control issues at the very least more disturbingly veryery abusive physically and u emotionally It'd be difficult to be with somebody like that. Absolutely, very difficult The other names on the list were Ronald Humphries and John Davis Go There I go, there you go K of telling No, it is when those people One of them ended up dead, the other I think was There was an attempt on his life. Yeah att the very least Kenneth gave Verneell an ultimatum Kill these men or their relationship was over He used the list to create a written contract. where the two of them would kill the five individuals See, for me, when someone says, either kill these men Or this is over, I'd be like, okay Finally, it's over Bye bye Has that happened to you before Oh she said No, I said if that was me. Oh, I don't I think you left out the word if. Oh whichich made it sound as though You have experienced this before, which I thought was very strange. I'm just saying If I was in that situation, I'd be like, well bye bye You know, I've been wanting to get out of this thing But here's the thing, I don't think she did and I can only, you know, kind of theorize why that might be You know, was his control so strong Angel her that You know, he essentially was running every facet of her life. He was. If you think about control And Or maybe she was scared that if the relationship ended He might do something really bad to her because now She's no longer you know, a part of his life, he doesn't need her, you know, you get where I'm going there. Yeah I mean, the other thing is too maybe she really believed that he was going to herer career Maybe. you know, I just got to hang on with this guy for a little bit more. I think he's going to make it happen Maybe But I do think M Verneell has said this. She was afraid of him. And that's one of the reasons she went along with what he told her to do When Kenneth talked about anyone on the lip He used the phrase Dead men tell no tales. Armady Eactly. Yeah You cracked me up Yeah know Ex exactly what a pirate would say Ronald Humphrey was chosen as the first victim B' now called him and arranged the meeting Kenneth drove her to the scene and waited nearby in his car He was angry and beat her after the failed murder attempt He yelled at her for going to a bar beforehand, saying, if you didn't have a drink Maybe things would have gone the way we planned Yeah, so Kennet was angry because it didn't go the way he wanted it to He didn't really have total control over the situation, but Um, You know, we know that he wanted these individuals killed because they were mess it with his woman. Were they messing with her at the time Or did he just believe or know that she had been with him at some point in the past. It's almost like Some of these guys He once killed retroactively. You're right. I mean, it's almost like a severe jealousy thing. like Jealousy of the past. Yeah. that's that's kind of striking to me I mean, no doubt. You can tell that Kenneth is a really controlling abusive person I'm not giving any slack to Verneell here. She did go through some stuff. I have no doubt of that But she also killed a number of people. so Oh, absolutely. it's going to be hard to give her Too much slack but just own it. I do think in a way she was controlled, intimidated abuseed by this guy K So I do have to say that Kenneth said he would finish the job after they dealt with John Dpe This time He said he would fire the fatal shot On the night of John's murder, Verneell and Kenneth waited for John in the parking lot of the David's Bridal warehouse Kenneth got in the back of John's van. And she waited in the shadows When John and Verneell got into the van Kenneth shot John in the head He then forced Verneel to shoot John twice with the same gun. there we go. We kind of Taled about that scenario. Yeah Both of them firing the gun I think, you know, as we talked about I think the reason, even though they didn't come out and say it, it was kind of symbolic in a way As far as we're both in this, we're both you know, firing shots bothoth killing this person But I want to talk about You know, she's hiding in the shadows She's going to meet with John and she gets in And Kenneth fires a shot from the back of the van Do you have any idea how loud that would be? a thirty eight caliber fired in a small van Very loud I've It would definitely not be good on the senses and the eardrums and all of that then to hand the gun to her and say, hey Here you go and she's She shoots him twice afterfter the murder Kenneth and Verneell went to her apartment and had sex Because that's what you do after you commit a heinous murder. or amped up, I guess. The next morning, he kissed her and said, one down F to go Today I'm telling you, man, this is a wild wild Tail But I think about Um before John left the warehouse. You know He had reservations about meeting up with whoever He was on the phone with And now We know why Most likely it was because he knew that Something good wasn't going to come from this Well, that's why, you know you're kind of almost asking the question Well why did he go through with it if he was so apprehensive, but You know, there's no way for us to know. On december seventeenth, two thousand two Kenneth Burnno was arrested and charged with homicide criminal conspiracy possessing an instrument of crime Unsworn falsification to authority The criminal complaint noted that Kenneth and was very jealous, controlling and manipulating I don't there's really no way to Dispute that. I don't think, with everything that we know about him his sense of shame over staying with a woman was involved with other men motivated him to compile a hitlist of men he believed for now had relationships with Now, I know there are jealous people bothoth men and women. This is taking jealousy to a wholen level that I don't know I've ever even heard of. It really is. I mean, to say Tell me who you had relationships, secial relationship with Five years before you met me And be jealous over that. It's like it was before I met you. Or should you be jealous of Don't tell me, I'll just write down the names of who I think you are you bet, Inluding two of my cousins. It' just I mean, I know it's not a laughing matter because we're talking about murder.. But some of this stuff is so off the wall. It is that you almost canan't help but laugh if detectives had not linked Renel So the two incidents from two thousand one The killing would have continued until the list was finished Well, that's true, right? I mean, they had that list and he was bound and determined to make sure that it got completed. Yeah. and The thing is Kenneth Arest was largely based on Vernell's statements. She confirmed that in both cases He was at or near the crime scene and he provided the weapon And let's not forget The only reason she really came forward because he stopped calling her He stopped visiting her and he started seeing someone else. Yes. Detectives didn't have the actual hitlist It was described as a piece of paper upon which Verneel wrote a contract agreing to kill five people. It contained only the first initial of the five intended victims. DA Bruce Casor also said Kenneth was abusive towards Vernell and played on her insecurity and love for him to get her to commit crime. Castter added Clearly, she's criminally culpable But she's not the driving force behind this contract to commit the series of murder I mean that's Pretty correct. Yeah. And that's the way I thought of it too Again, she went through some some pretty horrible stuff, I believe. Yeah at the hands of this Kenneth guy U And if not for him, Maybe she never kills anybody Probably not But she did sign a contract saying she would kill five people The following day, december eighteenth Verneell accepted a plea deal thirird degree murder and conspiracy She received a reduced sentence of seventeen to thirty five years You know, I don't hate it. I'm not jumping up and down mad about that They had to have her cooperation, right to get Ken So you're going to have to make a deal That's just how it works She is going to spend a large chunk of her life in prison. just like you said, I'm not hating it. It's not a best outcome, but it's not the worst either. It's Butl right down the middle. We've seen way worward. We have, right? two years Time serve, we've seen all kinds of strange things for murder. On april twenty sixth, two thousand four, jurors found Kenneth Burno guilty of first degree murder unsworn falsification to authorities and criminal conspiracy He was acquitted of possessing an instrument of crime which I thought was strange. It is How could you do all the other stuff if you didn't have the gun? right But they got him on the other things anyway. Yeah, his defense argued there was no scientific evidence to link him to John Davis' death. The murder weapon was never found and the fingerprints at the scene had been wiped out Additionally, the hit list was never recovered With the help of Vernell's testimony The jury sided with the prosecution Maybe it was they could get Ver now because She was involved in Ronalds Yes. case. Right The same gun was used thereby making her involved Yeah Maybe they just couldn't Tie the gun to him But if they thought he was part of the murder, I don't know. it just still seems strange to them How could he not have possessed a gun? use the gun that they know was used by both of them to kill Jon. Kill John D On september twenty eighth, two thousand four. Kenneth Berno was sentenced to life in prison. where he needs to be? Yeah, I agree You know, Brneell Jones was paroled in twenty eighteen and has not spoken So as we wrap this one up, Gabes Although Venneelle Jones was involved in the murder of John Davis and the shooting of Ron Hunper killing was definitely orchestrated by Kenneth, her abusive controlling boyfriend Had she not been arrested though It's very possible that there would have been five Yes. You know, I said it earlier, I'm not giving her a pass at all. No. I think She got a fair sentence. sounds like she's already done her time And it sounds like she did the minimum seventeen years. Right. She got out in twenty eighteen I think she was arrested in two thousand one. so