Verdict and Sentencing

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Feful terms at mintMobile d. com When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant You keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns With Granger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard to find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place, so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done Call one eight hundred Ganger, click ranger. com or just stop by Ranger for the ones who get it done. Hello everyone and welcome to episode five ten of the True Crime All the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Cime, Mike Gibson, Gimm me, how are you? I'm good. How about you, man? I am doing great. Good. I'm still coming off that vacation high. Yeah. St feeling good. All right. Just trying to figure out how long it will last. Hope it lasts a long time for you. Before I feel like I need another one. Yeah Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jamie Basil, also known as Pesto Yeah Elisa Tonia Tonah. That's what I'm going with. Yes. For Naz Ashuri. Hey Ashuri Nikki Basy U Bossy Could be. Yeah. Cynthia. Hey, Cynthia. And last but not least, Jesse Hake. Hey, what's going on, Jesse? And then if we go back into the vault This week we selected Karen Kirk. The Kirk is in the house. who you said on Patreon was Captain Kirk's daughter. Absolutely She knows it, whichich made no sense whatsoever It'sion no character Is it? It is. Maybe not. We have a brand new episode out right now on Tue crime of time Unsolved. where we're talking about Marlene Hayes. She left work early in nineteen eighty one She wasn't feeling And she interrupted someone burglarizing her home. It was a really brutal crime that shocked her neighborhood And now over forty years later, her roommate her Her murder remains unsolved. Yeah, tragic So that's out there right now. Check it out We did put a Patreon episode out Saturday night. that's on Anna Truha This case goes back to twenty thirteen She called nine hundred eleven to report that her boyfriend was bleeding out inside apartment when The police showed up She answered the door covered in blood Investigators were met with a shocking scene. But it became even more shocking when they discovered that the murder weapon was her high heeled shoe. Yeah. . So it's a fascinating case. If you're a Patreon member, make sure you check it out if you haven't already. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up. This was our ninetieth Patreon only episode. A episodes out there? Yeahep, absolute And then be on the lookout for a new episode on Thursday. It's on Anna Catherine Cardwell twenty year old who was murdered in her home while her mother was away running And it' it's a real mystery as to who her perpetrator is. Yeah kind of shocking. It is. All right, budy are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Julie Williams. Julie Anna Williams was born in Sanger, California On july twenty second, nineteen thirty nine, she was a divorced mother of three adult daughters previously worked as an escrow secretary for insurance companies. In nineteen eighty four, Julie moved from Central California to Mesa, Arizona She came for a fresh start according to her family But you know what she didn't want to Give up weather. That good weather, that's for sure. Moving from California to Arizona. It's like she moved to Ohio near us and experience the harsh winters No Julie lived with her daughter, Nancy and her son in law, Mike Brake Brady Bunch? Well, I mean you know, when you have the name, Mike Brady How many times a week is somebody gonna bring that up? to come up quite a bit, I think, back in the eighties You don't think it would come up today Probably too ye That's so funny that you would say the nineteen eighties. It's not like people have forgotten the Brady bunch. Literally if your name was Mike Brady today. Yeah, you would have somebody at least once a week talk to her about it. That's true Julie's life centered around her three daughters in church She made a lot of strong friendships and her two years in Arizona Steve Lotzspike, the husband of Julie's daughter, Patty, told the Arizona Republic, She was a wonderful mother in law And her girls feel she spread a lot of light on everyone she met So Julie worked for Trans America Title Insurance Company in Tempee, Arizona The Arizona Republic reported that she was a floater and didn't have a permanent office He, you know, she gets to go to different office every, you know, every now and then. It's kind of exciting to be a floater. Yeah, my daughter who is getting ready to be a senior in college This summer, she's, you know, she's working a job at the hospital as part of her nursing program. And she's afloat So she may go downtown to the big hospital. they could send her to one of the smallaller hospitals out in the suburbs, she just doesn't know And she kind of enjoys it. I think it keeps it exciting. Yeah. that's what she says anyway On Monday, march twenty fourth nineteen eighty six. Julie went to work as usual At eight AM She drank water from the office water And then almost immediately She collaped. her concerned coworkers Quickly suspect She became sick from the water Deborah Gresham and Glenn Myers had also gotten cups of water from the cooler They brought the water to their lips tasted it and smelled it and realized there was something in it. They didn't swallow the water And so they didn't become sick But they did report a bitter So I have to confess something back in the day. I worked at an office And You know, you used to put those big gallons of Jugs on top Yeah of a watered cooler cooler Yeah. I think that's what we're talking about here. Yeah. And I remember it looked dirty, right? So I thought You know, I'm going to clean that thing up So I got the bleach out and I'm like, cleaning the nz out and then night ike this is stupid, whyy don't I just pour some bleach down into the reserve and run it through Yeah, yeah, because the first part was stupid So so that's what I did. I pou some bleach in You know, didn't measure it out or anything. I didn't make sure I got the same amount I put in But I ran it through and you know, I smelt the bleach and I left it because you want to leave it so it kills everything for a little bit and then you want to run it back out. Well, I got busy. You know, and I Obviously, I put the cooler tank back on top and When I went along my day and And so u there's a guy in the office went up to the office and filled a cup up and he took a drink And about passed out because of a we drink Basically, majority of it was still leleach Yeah, you're lucky you didn't accidentally kill somebody know and end up in prison. So I don't mean to Monday morning quarterback you here, but You know, Could you have maybe put a post a note on it, left the actual jug of water off and just said, hey, In the process of being cleaned, there's bleach in this, don't drink. I think there was a few conversations like that afterwards. Oh my goodness, man Oh But it, you know, we've talked about it before. Those things are scary to me. Yeah. because Everybody can picture that type of water cooler. All you have to do is take that top part off the jug part Turn it upside down. you could pour anything you want in there. You could that's a scary thing. Yeah. And I think that most places have kind of gone away from those individual bottles sealed. most places make you pay for your own water now. Yeah. They might have a water fountain, but most of them have the water fountain with a little bottle filler. Yeah, you can press up and fill Those are big now. Yeah Watching this unfold was Sandra Diane Harry, another trans America worker Diane didn't drink from the water cooler, but she did smell a notable odor. coming from the water. She told investigators that The water smelled just like a bad bottle of Sot She drank from on Friday, march twenty first which caused her to become sick over the weekend. She fainted but managed to get herself into bed to rest and recover. get water smelling like a Bad bottle of scotch B. There's something going on. Yeah So investigators soon began looking into Diane's husband a guy named Louis Allen Harry Jr. Diane and Lewis lived in Maryvale, Arizona. Diane met him at a volleyball in nineteen eighty one She noticed that he was quiet and athletic He played basketball and worked as a referee in local church league The two dated for about six months before they moved in together And then six months after that, they got married Since nineteen eighty four Lewis had worked as an athletic equipment manager at South Mountain Community College in Phoenix Ed Catrell, a women's basketball coach said, Lewis was a good employee. He was a good worker Kind of an athletic nut like myself All right. You're kind of Athletic nut Back in my, uh, Younger days Yeah. No, you're a nut Exactly and very unaththletic. Yeah D Trell recalled meeting Diane once when she picked Lewis up afterward. But other than that, Lewis didn't share much about his personal life You know, it's funny, we talk about coworkers quite a bit. Really, you know, people kind of run the gamut people who You know, don't talk about their personal lives all that much And then you have people who won't stop talking about their personal lives sharing way more information than anyone should share. Yeah. And probably their family would be mortified if they knew all the things that this person was telling them. Absolutely But I guess that's what makes life interesting, right? If everybody was exactly the same. How less interesting would life be? re prettyty uninteresting. I mean, think like the this efford wise or Steppard wise or Yeah The second one, definitely Did you have something to go along with that? or Yeah, it wouldd be really boring. Oh, okay. I didn't know if you were just gonna stop right there A woman identified as Mrs. Tomp. The couple's next door neighbor had known them since they moved in two or three years earlier She told the Arizona Republic that Louis had been a very good neighbor and a friend She didn't know of any domestic problems in the household Neighbor Darlene Simmondons agreed that the couple was nice and quiet But how many times have we heardt whether it's a serial killer or, you know some other type of murder situation When neighbors are asked, a lot of times they have nothing but glowing things to say about some of these individuals Now not always, sometimes they're creepy or whatever But a lot of times they're not, and I think there's a reason for that, especially in the case of serial killers They're trying to blend it probably going out of their way to be the good neighbor They they don't want to stand out in a bad way Investigators learned that Lewis had a criminal record In nineteen seventy five, he was convicted of robbery Pima County He also had a record of forgery and assault with a deadly weapon against a federal agent. that's not going. Bodewell. No, that's a pretty serious crime In june nineteen seventy seven, he was sentenced to seven years in federal prison on each of two counts of assaulting, Federal DEA. So what happened was These DEA agents were posing undercover as Lewis and an accomplice were going to sell one pound of heroin Instead They attempted to rob the agents And we're arrested So first of all Don't sell heriro Secondly, Don't try to sell heroin to undercover federal agents And then thirdly, don't try to rob the undercover federal agents that you're supposed to be selling heroin to I guessing they thought they were invincible. Well, I'm guessing they obviously didn't know these were federal agents and thoughtought they were going get away with some money or drugs or both Lewis completed his probation on march fourth, nineteen eighty five Based on the march twenty first incident, authorities determined that Diane Har. was the intended victim of the office water poisoning Investigators tested the water and determined it was lace withya Police also found a powdery substance in the office's empty coffee pot and on coffee cups left there over the weekend This too was identified as signence I mean, sounds like the individual wanted to make sure Everything was covered But here's the thing. Rait If you are Trying to kill your wife As it appears, right? That's what this guy was doing. I get it, you're trying to make it look like it wasn't you. Mbe it happened at work But not only are you taking the chance that your wife is gonna die, which is I guess what maybe what you wanted to happen How do you know that your wife is going to be drinking the water or drinking the coffee? And how many other people Could you potentially kill? Yeah, I mean, if someone gets water, other people get coffee from the coffee part, somebody else gets Makes a cup of tea one of the cups that we're Laced. I mean, you could have multiple people Um dying. Well it does kind of remind me very much of the Tylenol poison. Yeah you're trying to Hover up something, which is what they believe was happening But you're also putting a bunch of other people att risk. Yeah You're willing to kill other people. kill the one person you want be dead Yes So on march twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, Lewis was brought in for questioning and was booked into jail that evening for attempted murder He did not admit any involvement in the poisoning. Sadly, Julie Williams died the hospital n march twenty sixth, nineteen eighty six. and her autopsy confirmed that she died of cyanide. isening And man, I just can't help but think You know, what a scary situation this is. I've talked about it before, right being served food That could be a scary situation. You have no idea what's in that food. No, if you didn't make it. We trust people alive. We do overver the top. I mean, especially today, right? you trust the restaurant that's making it Tust the delivery guy bringing it Right? If you're ordering it. Yeah. Yeah that they don't pull over and sprinkle something in there And then like for me, I have to trust You that once it gets here, you're not doing something with it. to take me out So there's multiple It's always weird when I put the food on the plate and hand it to you. It freaks me out a little bit sure. ye, yeah. I do that on purpose. Especially when mine looks a different shade than everybody else's But then I just don't question it. But then, you know, I think of this woman, Julie Williams mean she just went into work to do her job She didn't hurt anybody As far as I know, she didn't you know, have any enemies or anything like that Nobody was even out to hurt her He was just thirsty. and died of cyanide poisoning. Granger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park You're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners Light's about to fail, filters ready to clog, HBack on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind Count on Granger for quality products, easy reordering, and twenty four seven support Call one eight hundred Granger, click Granger. com or just stop by Granger For the ones who get it done Hey, it's your ceiling vent. So I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom. Yikes You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin Do we know if he's licensed or does he just st a ladder Listen to your home Go with thumb tack Uload a photo or voice note and we'll diagnose your project and match you with the right pro for the job. Thumbtack. We know homes Hire the right pro today In a brief interview from jail on march twenty sixth, Lewis said he didn't know Julie had died He declined to comment further. So he's not really talking at all, which is probably a good thing. It's not in his best interest On march twenty eighth In nineteen eighty six, prosecutors upgraded the attempted murder charge to first degree murder and added four more counts of attempted murder Well, yeah, I mean if someone else would have picked up a cup, they could have potentally died too. That's an attempt of murder. Yeah, one count was for the march twenty first poisoning of his wife, Diane The other three attempted murder accounts involved the two coworkers who drank the poison water, but spit it out And then the second attempt on Diane's life So you know, go back to the bottle of scotch, right? that smelled bad Obviously they connected the two. Yeah. He tried to kill her My painting this bottle of Scotch with cya Detective Michael Palmer told the Arizona Republic It's obvious he was attempting to kill his wife notot the other people in the office Investigators declined to discuss where Lewis got the cyanide from at that time. A South Mountain commommunity collollege spokeswoman said, Sodium cyanide was not kept on campus I would think it'd be difficult to get your hands on S night. And I don't know back then how difficult it would have been then, but today I would think it would be difficult. I would think it'd be a lot harder in twenty twenty six than it was in, you know nineteen eighty five, nineteen eighty six. for sure. I'm also assuming that the Tylenol poisonings. would have had something to do with regulation, right? We always put something in place after Something bad happened, true But I think on an episode, you know within the last couple of months, we were talking about some drugs. And we must have said that it's probably pretty hard to get. And I had a bunch of people write in, Gibbs and say, I can't remember what the drug was. And they said, no, it's used for this, this and this, it's pretty easy to get You know But it's just something you and I would have never experienence or we have no knowledge of, but other people do to write in which I love.. It's not like I feel like I'm being corrected. I just love to get the information You could Buy a bunch of apples and collect the seeds and Harvest Lake What do you needike thousand apple seeds and then you can make cyanide out of that. Oh, I did not, I was not aware of that That's how it works. Are you telling people how to make cyanide? 'ause I don't think you should be doing. It's a lot of apples. How do you like those apples? Yeah be wrong, but I think you can Do it that way On april eighth, nineteen eighty six, Lewis was indicted on all charges A pre trial hearing in June was delayed by confusion over the type of sign used in the poisoning. Luis's defense attorney Richard Steiner announced that He might attempt to have the case returned to the grand jury becausecause the Tempee police failed to inform the grand jury that the type of cyanide that apparently caused Julie Williams's death was different from the type of cyanide found on items taken from Lewis's home How many different types of cyanide does this guy have Sounds like he's got a few Deputy countounty attorney Cleve Lynch said during the hearing that Steiner Make some mantas based on police reports about evidence that had not yet been examined by the Arizona Department of Public Safety Lab technicians. So maybe there was a little bit of confusion over whether there was different types of cyanide. Before the hearing, a detective prepared a supplemental memo explaining that he was told by a criminal that the cyanide found in Lewis's home was potassium cyanide and not sodium cyanide, as he told the detective, on march twenty fifth The defense received this memo. minutes before the hearing So it sounds like maybe that's where the confusion endirl The judge granted the defense's request for a one week delay so that they could discuss the differences in the two types of cyanide with a chemist from ASU. probablyrobably need to understand that It might be a big part of the cake. Yeah, right Later reporting by the Arizona Republic clears up the confusion In a sworn affidavit, detective Michael Palmer wrote that based on a preliminary test, done by an analyst for the Arizona Department of Public Safety The Tempei police initially reported that Julie was poisoned with Sodium signign. However, the analysts conducted further tests before informing the grand jury that Julie actually died from Cassia Investigators sees two vials that contained residue potassium cyanide from Lewis' home So this was a big because If you had two different types But it seems like the jury could make a much bigger deal out of that. R You know, what you found in my client's home potassium s But what killed Julie Williams was sodium So Yeah, how are you making the connection Thankfully, the Lab corrected it with the final results to say it was potassium In July, the judge denied the defense's motion to send the case back to the grand jury In september nineteen eighty six, the Arizona Republic interviewed Diam She had refused to talk to reporter. but changed your mind because She said, it may not come out right in court. I wanted to say I know. Diane insisted, I do not believe Lewis tried to kill me. I have never Well, and let's face it, Yivbs, we've talked about it before How hard would it be? to believe that your significant other was trying to kill you You wouldn't want to believe it. No, I think for most people, they'd have a very hard time. Yeah. coming to that conclusion Now just because I get sick every time I eat my wife's cooking That doesn't mean that she's trying to poison That's just bad cooking. Yeah Yeah. And she'd be the first one to tell you. Yeah. She hates to cook barely tries doesnn't follow directions She can't even do the home shf, which gives you B step instructions with all the necessary ingredients doeses her own thing. And we're not talking bad about my wife. If she was on this podcast right now, she would literally say the same thing She hates the cook She does not want to cook But I would still have a hard time ever believing my wife was purposefull trying to poison Diane recalled that on the morning of march twenty fourth She recognized the almond like smell coming from her office water cooler and immediately called her husband I told him It's strange. It's the same smell as the bottle of Scotch at our house Diane said that both she and Lewis T toold a Temp detector their experience the previous Friday with the Scotch Diane asked the Republic. If Lewis was trying to hide something Why would he be talking about the Scotch? It don't make sense Dan recalled that the Friday before the office incident She arrived home before her husband and fix yourself a drink thought something was off The sccotch didn't smell right and it was bitter When Lewis came home from work a few minutes later She asked him to try it and he did He spit it out and went to the bathroom to brush his teeth Diane went outside to get some air When she came back inside, she passed out at the time, thought it was just from working She threw the scotch out the following day Lewis retrieved it And Lewis was the one later brought the Scotch to a detect. Okay. now it makes you Maybe They' there any What is very strange, right? If he's trying to poison his wife by lacing the scotuous cyanide Why in the world would he take it to a detector? and say Hey, I think something strange is going on here then then you have to think, okay, then If it's not Louis, then who wants to kill Di here because Diane seems to be the cononstant in both of those. Or yeah, the common denominator you can kind of understand Wh she wouldn't think that Lewis was trying to kill her. Yeah Diane also told the Republic that she and Lewis had been receiving threatening mails and thought someone was possibly trying to kill them They turned over some of those letters to the police The week before Lewis was arrested, he took Diane out and taught her how to shoot a gun because of the threatening letters Dan said that her husband was arrested Detectives found cigar tubes in the storage room of their home that contained cyanide. However, she noted That storage area is not locked Anyone could have put it there. So Diane said she believed her husband was a scapegoat because police wanted to solve the murder Now the question I would have is, I get it. It's not locked Technically anyone could gain access to it But why in the world would anybody put some vials of cyanide in your storage room, right? Maybe to hide them, to come back later and get them, I guess that's possible. Unless they were hoping that She would have died from what happened at the office And At the same time they could set up the husband to take the fall Yeah, that's a great. you know, observation as well But she said they had a good marriage. saying we had no problems in our marriage whatsoever If we were angry with each other, we wouldn't say anything We don't holler or shout. You wait till the anger inside you is over Then we sit and talk about Seems like a pretty healthy way to do it It's not my style, but it's, you know, pretty healthy way to do it. It isn't not Christina style either Christine and I are very alike, actually. Diane recalled that the police asked if either she or Louis were unfaithful. She said no They asked about life insurance and whether Lewis was angry If she made more money than him Diane insisted there was no reason. Her husband would have wanted to you know be honest with you Unless there's a big life insurance policy Why would you want to kill your spouse when they're the ones making more money than you Good point Because right now we don't have the moat Right She noted that the week before the poisoning She and Louis spend three thousand dollars remodeling their bathrooms. Diane questioned, why would someone who's going to kill his wife remodel the bathroom I don't know about that. I mean Maybe you just wanted to have a nice bathroom. Thats right. when you're gone here soon, I want to have a nice bathroom. D one to me is not as puzzling as actually taking the bottle of Sotch to a detective If in fact, you're the one who put cyanide in the bottle of Sott. Yeah, because you're not really helping your case. No. you're just bringing it to light when Technically, you don't have to You could just throw it out, right? And Never speak of it to anyone. ike could never existed Opening arguments in Lewis' murder trial began on november twentieth, nineteen eighty six. The jury heard that Lewis tried to kill his wife twice by poisoning her, but ended up causing the death of one of her coworkers. Prosecutor Cleve Lynch also attacked the claims that Lewis and Diane were being threats Lynch noted that Contents of two of the letters were written on legal pads from Lewis' office and in his Er Okay. They determined the legal pads were from his office. It's it would be a little strange to me that Diane wouldn't recognize the handwriting as Lewis's. Yeah I mean, I would think most spouses would recognize You know, there's significant others handwriting especially if they've been together for a while. You can Soell your wife's hand writing pretty good. Yeah, yeah. The prosecution described how on march twenty first, Diane became sick After drinking a small amount of scotch that was laced with cyanide She couldn't catch her breath which is a symptom of cyanide poisoning According to the prosecution, Lewis was having an affair. with the woman he met in January and received four Vaguely threatening letters from the woman's ex boyfriend After Julie Williams was poisoned Lewis produced two more ls These were the ones that were written on yellow legal pads from Isel and were written in his So fake letters. Yeah, maybe it sounds like there there was some real threatening letters that might have come from, you know, this woman's ex boyfriend But then he manufactured two more Maybe that's why Diane didn't recognize the handwriting because the first four were not in his hand. But just the fact that we have an affair. or the prosecution is alleging an affair You know, if it's true, well at least now we do have mode Right? An affair is a motive for murder. It is You went out of the marriage, you want to be with someone else. What are you willing to do to make that happen? Investigators discovered there was a seventy five thousand dollars life insurance policy on Diane thirty two thousand dollars trans America policy on Diane, and Diane had five thousand dollars worth of stock in the company Louis was the beneficiary of all three There's more motive. more motive. I mean Yeah, you could say it's a hundred some thousand dollars, but it's also like The mid nineteen eighties. Yeah, it's a good chunk of change. So it was more money back then, obviously Lewis's defense attorney Richard Steiner contended that his client was the target of serious threats by a man who is angry Because Louis helped that man's ex girlfriend get a court order against him The defense also argued that numerous people including tenants of the twenty two offices in the building that house Trans America. cleaning crew and construction workers had access to the build I get it. It's a good argument to make, right? If you're the defense, Hey, this is a a big building. There's a lot of people in and out A lot of people could have had access to that water co. Prosecutors noted that computer printouts indicated Diane's keycard Joo to get into the building ten eighteen AM onn Saturday, march twenty second two days before the murder Investigators believe Lewis poisoned the water cooler at that time So I'm assuming They checked into everything Diane said, no, I wasn't at the office on Saturday, right? They would have had to have done all of that work And so therefore, they believe He took her keycard, went to the office, got in, poisoned the water cooler. But according to the defense, Lewis was mowing a neighbor's lawn on that Saturday morning He also made a phone call in West Phoenix. A short time before the building was accessed in So they're casting some doubt and they're doing a fairly good job of it. Yes they are with what they have to work with Diane Harry testified that she still believed in her husband's innocence She confirmed that they started receiving threatening letters in January or February of nineteen eighty six The first letter was addressed to her and her maiden name and said that If she didn't tell her husband to leave the man's girlfriend alone He was going to do something to him. When the letters continued Lewis purchased a gun for her to carry She didn't believe Lewouis put the cyanide in her water She asked him after his arrest If he had been to her office the Saturday before But she couldn't remember his answer It's strange It's a little strange. It's yes or no answer, right And it seems like it would be something you'd remember. It'd be a big deal Yeah. Danne completed her testimony by telling the court that a life insurance policy had lapsed before the poisoning And she had a good relationship with her husband. did admit that he didn't tell her he was having an affair. or that he had gotten the woman pregnant you know Why would he? Yeah, no reason for most Men who are having an affair to confess that to their wife. It's not going to go over well But I just want to talk about You know, what does it do in the grand scheme of a trial when the defendant's wife The prosecution says was the target. getting on the stand and saying that She believes he's innocent. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely going to hurt their case And by this time, right, she knew about the fair She knew that he had gotten This woman pregnant obviously wasn't upset about it to the point where She would get on the stand and try to blast him Now I'm sure she was upset about it. Don't get me wrong, but notot to that point where It made her believe that He would have tried to kill him But at the end of the day prorosecutor They're just trying to show that he killed Julie William. Yeah. ye I mean He's on trial for that murder. Now they're also trying to show that he tried to kill Diane and a number of other people Robert Allen Tellenick, a laboratory technician at South Mountain Community College testified that Lewis asked him about Sina. Three weeks before the march twenty first Murder attempt Not good Not good for Lewis. No, right? becausecause All right, some of this stuff you can kind of take as circumstantial. Maybe you can look at it that it would it could go this way or the other way But when someone testifies that you're asking them about cyanide Three weeks before there's a cyanide poisoning that you're linked to Okay. I would think that's going to hit the jury or the judge Pret hard It should register with his wife somewhat too like wait a minute You ask somebody about this three weeks Oh, and I'm sure she's finding that out as the triales is happening. Yeah. as as it's being testified to Lewis told this guy that a friend was researching a report on the recent Tylenol murders, in that conversation and another conversation later that week, He pointed out to Lewis that cyanide was readily available and told him where it could be purchased locally. Lewis also wanted to know how much cyanide was needed to kill someone very detailed question And a damning one. Yeah I get it Are there other uses for cyanide? Yeah, sure.? That's why it was available to purchase But he didn't say How much do I need to get rid of some pest problem or, you know, something like that If he actually said or came out and said How much cyanide is needed to kill some All right, you're really not masking your intentions a whole lot there can say I was just curious, just wanted to know But I think most people would say that you want to know because you wanted to Do what you did. Yeah, because why do you need to know that If you're not planning on killing someone with cyanide, Is that just a curiosity And it just happens to come like three weeks before someone is killed by cyanide Now there are cooincidences and they are Non coincidences, I guess. I was trying to think of the other word. You just wanted to say coincidences I wanted you to say it because I know it's a word that you do struggle with sometimes So even though I said, right, his defense is doing an admirable job of trying to you know, cast some reasonable doubt There's still a lot that is really making this guy look guil A woman who worked at a chemical company testified that she sold about a pound of potassium ses to someone on march seventh But she didn't identify Lewis as the customer She wasn't permitted to do so becausecause in an earlier court hearing, She identified someone else as the customer Mysterious? Yeah, but also maybe an error in his favor. Yeah Did she make an honest mistake? Yeah, probably But because of that It was ruled that she couldn't then later say No, it was him bought the potassium cyanide, she could only say that she Sold the pound them to some I think as a juror, I don't know what you make of It's hard to do anything with it, really? Yeah. now you could infer that that's where you got it from, but it would be a little bit of a stretch, I think A handwriting expert testified that the signature on a receipt For the purchase of a pound of cyanide on march seventh was in Lewis's handw catalogs were also found in Lewis's office. from the company where the cyanide was purchased So now when you add that Okay makes it a little easier Right It's his handwriting. his signature on the receipt for the cyanide It must have been him Look at someone for it his signature his handwriting Yeah, possibly You have a handwriting expert Yeah. so You have to take their testimony and Weigh it like you would any testimony How credible do you believe it Then the jury heard from a woman named Verbre Ann Woton testified that her former boyfriend Roy Fitzpatrick threatening letters to Lewis and also threatened to poison him She dated Fitzpatrick for about three weeks and tried to break things off with him But he began harassing and threatening The harassment continued for five years And Lewis helped her get an injunction against Fitzpatrick, but the harassment continued According to Wooton, he would tell me what he did to women while he was in Vietnam and said, that's what he would do to me if I ever dated someone else She testified, He threatened to kill me to kill Harry and to tell Harry's wife about the affair He also threaten to poison the SOB or set Harry on fire. Okay Little drastic But I want to go back to dated for three weeks. Yeah And then he harassed her for five years. It's extreme, man. I mean, you shouldn't be harassing anyone Right. But How does it come from a three week relationship Definitely couldn't let go, could he? No. And there's probably Women listeners right now saying You know what You'd be surprised how Often that happens how attached a man can get and not be able to let go and I get it, and I'm sure it can happen the other way around as well. Oh yeah, you can flip it either way. It's hard for me to understand just because I've never been N been stalked No, no, no one's ever ought enough about me, I guess too stalked me after actuallyually, I was always the dump B I was never the dumper Oh, you were the dumpy? Yeah, I got dumped a lot to be honest with you. Really? Yeah, back in the day. Especially in high school, I can see why. No. No. Actually You You look like one of those high school models Oh, when I was in high school? Yeah So I'm surprised you got dumped I think it was too nice. Is that what it was? Yeah, because I specifically remember getting dumped a lot, like right after a big holiday where a gift was involved. Oh They didn't like your gift Oh, the gift was always nice. They just wanted the gift. Maybe it was too much, Maybe they thought it was coming on too strong. I don't know. Hey, we just been out We've been going out for like a week and you're like, I' got you this diamond riamond. No, it wasn't anything like that, but Yeah. I I don't remember actually breaking up with a lot of people. I do remember getting broken up with them. Irob remember each one of those each individual's name is probably on the list somewhere. But it wasn't like we're talking a hundred. It wasn't that many. You weren't a player? No. I did also get married at the age of twenty two. That's true. Yeah With the American Express Platinum card, I can unlock experiences like no other Since I'm always booking my next trip, I'd love that I can earn points on travel. Plus, I get a respe benefit so you know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about. And you can find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as one hundred seventy five thousand points. For experiences like No other, there's nothing like platinum. Learn more at Americanexpress dot com slash explore dash platinum Terms supply Whoodon said she met Lewis on january twentieth they began a relationship. He told her that he and his wife were going through a divorce She became pregnant but later Mis C The old we're going through a divorce It's okay that we're sleeping together and Yeah. Yeah, I'd pregnant. I don't think his wife knew anything about that part so either Wth the affair Fitzpatrick followed Louewis from Whooton's apartment one night. found out where he lived, he also told Whooton that he knew Lewis' wife worked for transr America. In his testimony, Roy Fitzpatrick denied threatening Louis or Verbay Woodon and said only that he and Whooton had arguments He did read the threatening letters. He admitted to sending Louis and Diane He admitted to writing for the letter denied writing to others. including one that threatened to take something away from Lp So this is a very interesting dynamic, right? This guy, Roy Fitzpatrick, Because I think if you're the defense attorney You could make a strong argument. that you know, it wasn't Lewis who did this It was Roy Fitzpatrick He knew where Lewis's wife worked. He was trying to get back at Lewis And he's the one who poisoned the water And maybe he's the one who poisoned the Scotch But also he seemed to be pretty honest on the stand, right? He admitted to writing the four threatening letters but denied writing the other two, which And writing experts said Lewis wrote on legal pads that came from his office And I think the other argument that could be made As far as Roy Fitzpatrick is concerned is did Lewis Use him. Right? Did he take the bottle of Scotch to the detective? because he had these threatening letters. And he could have said Hey, someone is trying to kill us, someone is trying to poison us, And then He turns around and poisons the water supply, hoping that it would be blamed on Roy Fitzpatrick Yeah, I mean, that could have been the plan Lewis got on the stand and said he didn't remember ever being at the warehouse where police said the cyanide was purchased. Ag I think it's a yes or no answer I just don't remember it Either you were or you weren't I don't remember signing that receipt that a handwriting expert said was my signature. Yeah. I just don't remember it, Gibby Now I'm a very forgetful person I will be the first one to admit that Think though, if I were to make a purchase like Sin That would probably stick with me I don't think you're not going to recall that. No. It's not in his best interest to remember it though. O course not He also provided an al and explanations for the prosecution's circumstantial evidence, such as hisis fingerprints on coffee cups in the office The letters in his handwriting and his conversation with a coworker about poison He denied planning the office poisoning or trying to implicate Roy Fitzpatrick He claimed his princes got on the coffee cups when he visited his wife at the office So it's a big deal, right? He has to try to provide explanations for all this evidence, even the circumstantial evidence against him. Yeah, I mean, I get it. you know, you go to your wife's office, you open up the cupboard and you Touch every coffee cup in there because you I feel like doing that right now. Maybe I don't like how they're in here. I moved them around. I placed them in there better, my fingerprints got on it. That's how it happened The jury began deliberating on december sixteenth, nineteen eighty six. onn the seventeenth Louis Allen Harry Junror was found guilty of first degree murder and four counts of attempted murder Two members of the jury told the Arizona Republic that the security card and the signature on the receipt for Science. were among The most convincing And I get that. I mean, those are Some of the stronger pieces, right? There's a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case So I could see why maybe the jury would gravitate towards these two things You know, if she Diane is saying, well I didn't go to the office on Saturday But her card was you Who else in the household would have access to that card possible that somebody came in and stole it? Yeah, I guess technically, right? in his As far as anything is possible But it's more likely that her husband, who could have easily taken it out of her purse or wherever it was used it And then, you know, to me, The signature on this receipt for signence is such a big one Because he didn't say, yeah, I bought the cyanide, but I plan to use it for X where I did use it for X He said, I don't remember Being at the warehouse buying this sign which is so strange Beuse you would know if you were or not, especially a pound of cyanide now at this point, just have the balls and say I didn't want to be married to her anymore I didn't I didn't want to go to a divorce either I just wanted her out of the picture so I could be with this other woman that I thought was having my baby Nbody does that. No. I mean someome people do. Most people don't, right? They fight to the bitter end because They cling to that chance that they're going to get off, right? That a jury is going to acquit them You don't want to give up, No. Juror Dale Griffin said defense attorney Richard Steiner made a mistake When he told Lewis to look at the jurors and tell them he was innocent. Griffin said, not one of us felt he really looked us straight in the eye And he had this funny look in his eye when he said it Wh, why would you I think it's a terrible thing to ask Y client to do because You can only look one person in the eye at a time. whereere you're going to go I didn't do it. I didn't do it. it didn't it. I didn't it. It's ' to each one of them. Yeah, it's just awkward And u evenven if you really didn't do it You might not have the way of saying it that people would believe you. So why even put it put the chance out there I mean, like you're not a convincing person or something like that. Yeah, I get it Julie's daughter, Nancy Brady said that at first she thought Louis was innocent as the evidence mounts She changed her mind And I think it would be H for that not to happen. Yeah. R. I do think in a lot of situations, familyam members at first I mean, they start out kind of taking the side of their loved becausecause Who wants to believe that you know, a family member would commit this type of, you know, heinous act. But then as all the evidence starts to roll out in the trial At some point do you just say, Ohh my gosh, I even think he did it. Yeah So I think that can happen with people on february twelfth, nineteen eighty seven Lewis was sentenced to life in prison The judge said that putting poison into the water cool showed compleomplete stupidity and senselessness He described Lewis as sociopath It's kind of hard to argue with any of that. Yeah It's stupid, it's senseless Kind of like that guy to put the bleach in the water to try to clean it out Yeah, I mean, I really am shocked that you revealed that on the podcast. but We have talked about it, right? I think we've all done things in the past that Yeah, at the time You didn't think was that big a deal. You look back on it with a an older perspective and you're like, the hell was I thinking? I't know You could have killed somebody. M also saying, Hey, the guy that got I got this cup full of that mayaybe smell what you drink before you actually put it in your mouth. Well, and I did want to talk about that. I think maybe you've seen me do it. I do smell my food. You do. And a lot of people have pointed out people that eat with me, it can look a little strange. but It's it's not It's like a true crime thing. It's not like, I don't know why It's almost like u I don't think it's a nervous tick, but it's something I've done since I was a kid I always smell my food before I put it in my mouth You also do that thing that Robert from Everybody loves Rammond does. Yeah. put it on my chin. Yeah you touch your chin, then you Th I smell it and then I put it in my mouth So Lewis received consecutive terms of twenty one, twenty eight twenty eight and twenty eight years for attempted murder and a life sentence for murder not going anywhere. He would be required to serve two thirds of each sentence for attempted murder And twenty five years from her meaneing he would have to serve ninety five total years in prison. Yeah So you're right. He's not going anywhere is's going die in prison. and I don't think he should go anyw If you're willing to do something like this First of all, kill your wife, but then also Take the chance of a number of other people dying Um And one person did die You don't deserve to walk with the rest of us. He does not At a pre sentencing hearing, Lewis asked the judge to spare the death penal and let him work on his case so that he might be vindicated someday The judge imposed the maximum sentence made them concurrent because of aggravating factors He said twice The defendant tried to poison his loyal wife poisoned the water, he had to know that anyone who drank it could or would die The cold calculated scheme to poison his wife shows a heinous state of mind So that's why, right? he has to do ninety five years in prison becausecause they were made concurrent And to think, man, his wife was so dedicated to him. Like she didn't want to believe that he did this And I don't know what she feels today if she's still alive. There wasn't a lot of information about either him or her, right as time went on because obviously this happened almost forty years ago But as we wrap this one up You know, in his attempts to kill his wife Lewis poisoned an innocent woman And like we said, right, his wife Diane defended him until the very end and even helped pay for his defense attorney. Wow But ultimately, the jury believed the prosecution's evidence which showed clear planning and intention. and a disregard of the lives of Not only his wife, but everyone who worked in the office that day Again, willing to kill her and others So he could be with somebody else probablyrobably D didn't want to be with him the way that he thought Well and it also had to be about money as well Right? We mentioned the life insurance policies, but Here's a guy whose wife was making quite a bit more than he was. Yeah. So I think this is a situation where he could have left the marriage. He could have filed for divorce and maybe not have had to pay her a bunch of money in alimony or something like that because she made a lot more money than he did. It might have worked out just fine for him He didn't want that He wanted The life insurance money. Yeah And he wanted to be able to be with someone And that is often the case. It is, right? It's It's lust, it's greed, kind of all mixed together Don't take the shortcut, man No. it may be painful. It might not be the easiest thing in the world, but if you don't want to be with someone, just tell them you don't want to be with them. Yeah and you know, start life new and and Go that route. Don't hurt someone because you think it's going to be easy. And you're going to be better off. you're going to get money and this and that No, what you're going to do is spend the rest of your life in jail That's right And In the case of Lewis, Kill an innocent woman. Yeah And his wife was innocent too If she had died, she would have right innocent as well, but this this woman he killed was completely innocent. She had nothing to do with any of them. No. She wasn't even involved She just happened to work. at the same place as white. And clearly he didn't care. No No he didn't care. but that's it for our episode on Julie Williams We got a voicemail Gibbs, you want to check that out? Yes here Hey guys, it's Claire from Tasmania, Australia I've been listening to you guys thinks probably when the Menendez brothers were a bit you know, in the news and stuff, so I found your podcast and then I have literally being sure of sense U I'm up to date on newer stuff, but the older stuff I'm now going back through. So it's currently six thirty AM and I listen to you guys while I have a coffee and get ready for work I just Matthew Brick episode and you were talking about the Fanny packs that we call bumbags here in Australia talkking about them being litted and you be said that he could wear them